Friday Flight - Insurgent I-Bonds, Trendy Tiny Homes, & Cutting The Big 3 #1143

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How to Money | Friday Flight – Insurgent I-Bonds, Trendy Tiny Homes, & Cutting The Big 3 (#1143)

Podcast: How to Money
Hosts: Joel and Matt
Date: May 22, 2026
Episode Overview:
In this Friday Flight episode, Joel and Matt dive into this week’s most impactful money stories. The dynamic duo discuss whether I Bonds are back, how tiny homes could disrupt the housing market, the realities behind self-improvement services for homeowners, and why the "big three" expenses are still the key to early retirement dreams. They dig into the latest in AI-driven finance and reflect on the shifting cultural landscape of personal finance and technology. As always, their approach is practical, conversational, and loaded with actionable advice for listeners who want to make smart money moves without all the jargon.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Updates & Financial Tangents

[01:30 – 09:05]

• House Renovations & Pricing:
  The hosts open with a humorous discussion about a neighbor’s ambitious home listing price and how renovations can impact a house’s charm and market value.
• Triathlon Experience on a Budget:
  Joel shares his experience joining a team triathlon, emphasizing that you don’t need top-tier gear to participate and enjoy these events.
  • "I did the bike ride portion and I got my money's worth for sure...I probably spent a hundred and thirty-five dollars to get myself prepared." – Joel (05:39)
  • The guys discuss the culture gap between expensive, gear-centric events like triathlons and the more laid-back, "dirtbag" culture of trail running.
• Key Takeaway:
  You can enjoy hobbies and achieve goals without succumbing to lifestyle inflation—incremental spending on equipment is fine, but not a necessity to get started.

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2. Insurgent I-Bonds: Are They Making a Comeback?

[09:12 – 11:52]

• Interest Rate Update:
  I Bonds are yielding 4.26%—higher than most high-yield savings accounts.
  • "Now we're at 4.26% which is better than essentially every high yield savings account out there." – Joel (09:51)
• Liquidity & Suitability:
  I-Bonds are less liquid; not ideal for short-term savings or long-term aggressive growth, but potentially attractive for medium-term cash if you believe inflation will remain elevated.
  • "I bonds, I think, still only make sense for a small subset of individuals… is it worth the trade-off of liquidity and the unknown about where I bond rates go in the future?" – Joel (10:50)
• Inflation Predictions:
  Matt notes rates may change quickly based on energy and war impacts, cautioning listeners not to chase headlines but to honestly assess their own inflation outlook.

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3. Credit Card Crackdown: Fees, Limits & Fairness

[11:52 – 15:49]

• New Laws:
  Illinois is banning credit card swipe fees on taxes and tips; 15 other states are considering similar moves.
  • "It sounds fairly reasonable because merchants are essentially paying a fee on money that doesn't end up in their pocket." – Matt (12:38)
• Credit Card Limits Shrinking:
  Lenders are proactively slashing credit limits due to concerns about consumer debt risk.
  • "If you handle credit cards wisely, you could preemptively even ask to have your limit raised, maybe insulating you from this a little bit." – Joel (15:18)
• Big Picture Impact:
  Lower limits may protect consumers from their own overspending, but can also hurt credit scores by increasing utilization rates.

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4. Trendy Tiny Homes & Housing Solutions

[15:49 – 21:20]

• Tiny Home Industry:
  The hosts review an article about an Alabama-based company building 400 sq. ft. homes in just eight days for under $200K.
  • "They build them on trailers...even the fanciest, biggest one is under $200,000, which is amazing." – Matt (16:53)
• Zoning & Regulation:
  Local zoning laws are a major obstacle, but some cities are loosening rules for ADUs and tiny homes—a win-win for affordability and housing supply.
• Prefab Housing:
  Joel and Matt advocate for more factory-built housing to reduce costs and increase efficiency.
• Millennial Housing Preferences:
  Most young buyers prefer smaller, walkable communities—a trend reflected in demand for tiny and prefab homes.
• Investment Angle:
  Listeners who own property are encouraged to consider adding tiny homes or ADUs as income generators.

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5. The CASA Subscription Model: DIY vs. Done-for-You Home Maintenance

[21:20 – 25:07]

• CASA’s Offer:
  For $200/month, homeowners get 1.5 hours of handyman service.
• Critique:
  The guys are skeptical of the paymentification trend—subscriptions for everything can be less efficient and more costly versus the traditional save-and-spend approach.
  • "I don't like...the paymentification of everything in our lives." – Matt (22:15)
• Entrepreneurial Opportunity:
  There’s still strong demand for local, reliable handypeople—a niche for handy listeners looking to start a side business.

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6. Ludicrous Headline: Early Retirement Myths for Millennials

[28:39 – 33:26]

• Survey Data:
  80% of millennials want to retire in their 50s, but only a third think it’s possible.
• Harsh Truths:
  Achieving early retirement isn’t just about wanting it—it requires significant sacrifices, especially around the big three expenses: housing, transport, and food.
  • "If you want to retire early bad enough, a laser focus on these things is the way to get there." – Joel (33:14)
• Automate and Outperform:
  The best advice is to rigorously cut big costs and invest consistently, rather than fiddling with smaller expenses.

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7. AI in Personal Finance: Revolution or Overhyped Risk?

[33:26 – 41:20]

• Astor AI Financial Advisor:
  Company charges $40/month for AI-driven investment advice, but the hosts are skeptical:
  • "Why would you pay a monthly premium? If I can just listen to Joel and Matt say, oh, you should be investing in widely diversified index funds that are low cost...I just told you that for free." – Matt (35:29)
• AI’s Drawbacks:
  AI lacks fiduciary duty, can be error-prone, and may recommend overly conservative (or even flat-out wrong) investment allocations.
• User Experience:
  Joel recounts a convincing experience with a friend’s AI business but notes it isn’t strong enough to justify high subscription fees for most people’s needs.

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8. AI Backlash & Data Security Concerns

[41:20 – 44:20]

• Societal Pushback:
  New data centers face local opposition; graduates at UCF booed an AI mention at commencement. Is the fear generational or rational?
• Job Disruption vs. Opportunity:
  The hosts reflect on history: Many technologies replaced jobs but also created new ones—being adaptable is more important than resisting change.
• Cautionary Note:
  Don’t share sensitive personal information with AI tools; treat them as an assistant, not an infallible advisor.
  • "I would not be sharing any more personal information than is required...don’t even think about sharing your social." – Matt (39:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Costly Gear vs. Participation:

  "You don't have to drop all that big money to go out, have a good time, participate in the race." – Joel (07:57)

• On Housing Trends:

  "Small and portable homes, they're not just a fad, they're here to stay. And I think we're going to continue to see a loosening of local laws..." – Joel (20:58)

• On Subscription Services for Home Maintenance:

  "I don't think this is going to work, personally...it's going to be a less cost effective way to manage your property." – Matt (22:14)

• On Early Retirement:

  "If you want something bad enough, you got to make a pretty significant overhaul in order to get where it is that you want to be in about a decade." – Matt (29:44)

• On the Allure of AI Advisors:

  "What are you actually expecting then? If you are going to pay something...you're looking for outsized returns and in that case you end up running the same risk." – Matt (35:16)

• On Giving AI Too Much Info:

  "I would not be sharing any more personal information than is required...don’t make it easy for our AI overlords." – Matt (40:20)

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Timestamps by Section

• [01:30] Welcome & Home Renovation Tangents
• [04:02] Joel’s Team Triathlon on a Budget
• [09:12] I Bonds: Are They Back?
• [11:52] Credit Card Swipe Fee Bans & Credit Limit Reductions
• [15:49] Tiny Homes: Housing’s Next Disruptor
• [21:20] CASA: Subscription Home Maintenance Pros & Cons
• [28:39] Millennials & Early Retirement: The Big Three Expenses
• [33:26] AI as a Financial Advisor: Pros, Cons, and Caution
• [41:20] AI Backlash, Data Risks, & Adapting to New Tech

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Closing Thoughts

• Joel and Matt encourage listeners to stay focused on the fundamentals: cut big expenses, invest steadily, and avoid overcomplicating money decisions with expensive gadgets, services, or the latest tech trends.
• They are enthusiastic about shifting cultural norms (like housing downsizing) and stress the importance of adaptability—whether in your career, investing, or daily spending habits.

Links and resources referenced in the episode will be available in the show notes at howtomoney.com.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

Get [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE SIPC welcome to how to money. I'm Joel.

[C]

And I am Matt.

[B]

Today we're talking. I like the way he said that. Talking insurgent ibons, trendy tiny homes and the big.

[C]

I just try to bring a little enthusiasm to everyone's Friday morning or Friday afternoon or Saturday morning, whenever you listen and so on whenever it is.

[B]

Or 2028 if you're listening way down the line. Hello from the past.

[C]

Like one of those folks who go, they're like, I'm gonna listen to every episode. Good luck. But no, this is our Friday flight. We're gonna talk about some of the stories we came across this week and specifically how they pertain to your finances. Hopefully you won't hear the little, little bobcat in the background that's working on the house next door.

[B]

Put this thing on the market soon. And I won't be silent about it.

[C]

I'm not going to share how much they listed it for because I cannot believe. It's just when you say that. If I were to say the number, I think people would Be like, wait, what, what kind of fancy digs y' all got if there's a house that expensive going on the market next door? But I don't think there's any way that they're going to get that much for it.

[B]

So either.

[C]

What are they thinking?

[B]

I don't know. This is like a total flip of like a really old house. And it's really cute. It's very cute. It's well done. But I'm just. It's a postage size lot still.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And it's also not as cute as it was because, like, they took some of the ornamental, like some of the charm off, you know, like, that's one of the things that make old houses beautiful and timeless is that a hundred years ago, builders were putting attention to detail into every sort of little. Not all the time. Right. Like, bungalows kind of buck that trend. Like you bung bungalows were the affordable houses in the 20s for folks who weren't looking to drop the big money on the. The Victorian or the Queen Anne's. Okay. We're really gonna dive into architecture now. Right.

[B]

But even those bungalows are. Had a lot more ornament than the 1940s, you know, World War II homes.

[C]

Yeah, most def. So it's interesting to think, to see what they've left off as they've renovated the home. And I'm like, wait, are you not gonna add that back on? Because that actually adds a lot of the elements of charm that I think people are attracted to when you are looking. Certainly when you're looking to, I don't

[B]

know, for a home built in the nineteen teens, you're like, that's. That's what you're looking for. That's what you want.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The authenticity.

[C]

Anyway, I mentioned that because there's a little bit of construction. There is some humming in the background for that folks might hear, but not for much longer. Little, little tangent.

[B]

I want to bring up something real quick. So I did. And this. Man. I hesitate to bring it up in some ways because I don't want to make it sound like I'm so sort of like beast athlete because I'm very, very, very much. Not very much not.

[C]

But Joel's getting a triathlon tattoo on his calf.

[B]

No, maybe a third of one because I did a team triathlon with some friends. And so it was.

[C]

Which is, I think, a nice way to get into it.

[B]

Man.

[C]

I think that's. That's totally fun.

[B]

It was really fun. I did the bike ride portion and I got my money's worth for sure. It was, it was so fun.

[C]

Wait, how much was it?

[B]

Dude, it's expensive. It was like 200 bucks each.

[C]

So it's like a $600 entry fee if you're doing it. If you're doing it solo. Yes. That's a lot of money.

[B]

I know.

[C]

That's a far cry from just like us going for a mountain. We need to get a mountain run on the Cal.

[B]

I mean how much did that cost? Like 70 bucks or something like the

[C]

oh the hella back the trail run we did up in the mountains.

[B]

But man, the bike ride I will say was worth the money, was beautiful. It was incredible. I had a good time and what I saw though out there and maybe, maybe I'm a wuss or something, I don't know. But I felt like just intimidated by a lot of the people with their incredible gear and some of their incredible dedication. I think part of it, they get the gear because they're much more dedicated than I am. So maybe that succumbs if you're spending

[C]

that much time because yeah, I mean it's one thing to say hey, I'm going to train for a marathon. It's another thing to say hey, I'm actually going to do a marathon or crazy long bike race. Also I'm going to swim and try not to drown at the same time too. So maybe I deserve the nice, the nice gear. Yeah, you've got a pretty nice bike.

[B]

Well, and still the hand me down free bike that I got 16 years ago and I rode on that puppy.

[C]

Funny probably looking at you. Some of those top dogs are like judging you a little bit. They're like what's this guy doing?

[B]

Well I will say like I didn't, I did.

[C]

You're still able to ride though.

[B]

I still have, I did very few upgrades to prepare for this. I did some training but like there were a bunch of ways I could have spent money like that. Oh sure. Arrow bars and fancy clip in pedals and I did like the bare minimum. I probably spent a hundred and thirty five dollars. You get myself prepared.

[C]

You got clipless pedals and, and biking shoes, right? Yep. And gotta have a good connection to the bike.

[B]

Oh, and you know what you have to get if you're riding a long distance? You got to get the padded, the padded butt shorts like because if you don't like you're. Oh yeah, hurting too bad. I learned that out of my first training ride. I was like 30 miles. Ooh, my tush now feels so good.

[C]

Feel a little Roll.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I learned that in college doing a bike ride from Georgia down. It's like the Georgia Florida game from Athens down to Jacksonville. And we would find a way to get our hands on some of the. Uga had a bike club. Like, wasn't a biking team. I think it was, like, at that point in time as a UGA cycling club.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And somehow we were able to get our hands on some of those tights so they look legit. I felt like a collegiate athlete. And it totally had the pads built into the. The seat. Oh, man. So nice.

[B]

I even. I thought about getting, like, a singlet, because that's what you're supposed to wear, but I didn't. I just. I just wore those $15 shorts underneath my normal. And I was fine. I was fine. It was great.

[C]

I would. I want to see you in the singlet, though. I think everybody does. The whole world does.

[B]

Maybe someday.

[C]

Look at that really tall guy with the singlet and the mustache. Looks. Don't talk to him, honey.

[B]

Yeah, he's.

[C]

He's a weirdo. I think what I hear you saying is that you don't have to upgrade and make. I mean, some of these bikes are really expensive, right?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[C]

Like that. Some of these things are on five figures for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, my. Which is just. Yeah. Dude.

[B]

So what?

[C]

Baffle.

[B]

I didn't know this existed. I didn't know bikes like this even were made. But they've got, like, hydration bladders with, like, a straw coming out that are built into the frame, and they've got, like, little, like, spots in the frame as well for all your fueling needs.

[C]

Does that really surprise me?

[B]

It's.

[C]

It is aerodynamic as possible because. Yeah. When you're talking about that long of a distance, every little bit matters when it comes to drag. But what you're saying is that you don't have to drop all that big money to go out, have a good time, participate in the race.

[B]

Yeah. Still compete. Have fun and enjoy it at the same time. It's still a slippery slope, though.

[C]

Cause I'm sure you're thinking if I do it again, maybe I will. Maybe I'll at least get the arrow bars because it'd be nice to stretch out, wouldn't it?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

They look uncomfortable, but I might do it just for, like, speed. But, yeah. Like, incremental upgrades. You don't need to go all at once, see how much I'm gonna. See how into it I am. And if I do it again, maybe I'll spend a little bit more.

[C]

See that's okay. Last little comment and I swear we'll get to the stories. That's one of the things I love too about. There's a difference between like we were talking about the trail run up on the mountain.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like it has its culture which is like this dirtbag sort of running culture. Like you don't have to have a ton of fancy gear. You're not out there to set a pr that feels very different than I guess the triathlon culture. 100% which is like everything's so perfectly finely. It's like Ferraris.

[B]

People are chiseled.

[C]

Yeah. Versus like, I don't even know what you would call trail running. The equivalent of like some sort of like pickup truck mater from like cars.

[B]

That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. That's like an old beat up one. That's probably manual transmission or something. Right.

[C]

But it gets it done.

[B]

Yeah. And. And I think I resonate more with the trail running culture than the Ironman culture. But still it was fun to dabble in.

[C]

There could be room for. For both of this in your life. But yeah. Glad y we're able to have a

[B]

good time and not spend too much. Should we get to the Friday flight? Let's keep moving stories we found interesting this week. Let's talk about I bonds for a second. Matt, when was the last time we

[D]

talked about I bonds?

[C]

Oh, 2023.

[B]

2023. Okay. That probably, you're probably right. Checks. It's probably a few years ago.

[C]

Yeah. And back when inflation was super high.

[B]

Right. Yeah. It socking money away and I bonds made more sense. So we talked about it pretty, pretty regularly back in 2022. 2023. 3. Like you were making meaningful money from ibonds. I think in 2022 is when we hit that 9.6.

[C]

I should remember, I think starting to come down a little bit.

[B]

They were adjusting lower and that was like because of the way I bonds work. That's like a six month term interest rate that you're able to make. But that's. That's incredible. Right. That people were able to make that in I bonds and.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And now we're at 4.26% which is like not nearly as good as it was. But it's better than essentially every high yield savings account out there. So we are starting to see a bunch of articles being written about I bonds again. They were kind of neglected for a couple of years and now as inflation hasn't cooled. Right. The way we thought it would or that it was trending. Well, I bonds are benefiting from that. And so the, the rate I bonds pay fluctuate with inflation in addition to a, a current fixed rate, which is 0.9%, meaning that you get that plus the rate of inflation. And so if you're the kind of person who's like, I think inflation is going to remain sticky, like this is kind of a prediction you have to make and you have to decide whether or not it's worth the risk or the trade off of locking your money up in an I bond. But I bonds are starting to look again like a solid choice for kind of medium term cash, I'll say because they're less liquid. So it's not as good as a, as a high yield savings account in that way. And I bonds are just so, they're just not great for short term savings. They're also not great for long term growth. And so while the articles proliferate at this point in time, I bonds, I think Matt still only makes sense for a small subset of individuals. Even though the rates that you're like, oh, a little bit better than my high yield savings account. Well, is it worth the trade off of liquidity and the unknown about where I bond rates go in the future?

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. I feel like it partly depends on your optimism as to how quickly things might wrap up as far as the war goes or pessimism or how pessimistic you are. Exactly.

[B]

If you think it look the war is going to continue a lot, lot longer and it's going to continue to push prices upward, then I bonds look more attractive.

[C]

Yeah. Personally, and this starts to venturing into the political territory. I think I am a bit more optimistic because of the fact that the latest inflation readings have a lot to do with energy, has a lot to do with oil. As soon as that supply comes back online, prices are going to drop. There's a big difference between that and the amount of cash that was being just flooding. That was being flooded into the system

[B]

which created more persistent inflation.

[C]

Exactly, exactly. Let's talk about credit cards, Joel, because swip fees have been the thorn in the side of many small businesses for quite a while now. And then you've got credit card loving consumers like me who don't mind because I don't bear the brunt of it. And I get all my rewards by using my credit card for virtually all my purchases, which leaves the businesses stuck with those costs. But some states have taken notice of these fees and they are doing something about it. At least a little bit at the bleeding edge of this sort of movement. A new Illinois law is going to ban those fees on taxes and on tips. This is coming in July. There are 15 other states who are weighing similar bills, which honestly, it sounds fairly reasonable because merchants are essentially paying a fee on money that doesn't end up in their pocket. Tip which goes directly to servers and taxes which goes to the government. So the credit card companies obviously are not happy and.

[B]

Oh, they're whining about it. Yeah, well.

[C]

Well, they're creating ads as well to attack this legislation. And they've got money to spend big banks. So, yeah, it might end up reducing rewards if more states come on board, but it would also obviously reduce small business costs, which I think more directly impact what it is that we pay when we're making purchases, going out for food, buying goods and services.

[B]

When we've talked about kind of the unfairness of the credit card system and how the people who utilize credit cards well benefit by earning rewards and never paying interest because they're paying their balance on time and in full every month, which is what we want how to money listeners to do. But then there is the other side of the coin where the small businesses and individuals who are not using credit cards wisely are paying for the rewards essentially for the people who handle credit cards. Well, you could say that's a choice, but it's. That is the way things shake out. There's a 50, 50, half of people benefit, half of people don't most of the time. We're also seeing more credit card companies actively slashing credit limits in 2026. I think this is because worries about consumer ability to pay back the money they're borrowing have increased. Credit card companies are just being a little more tentative in what they're doling out and in the credit limit that they're allowing individuals to have with the credit cards that they're getting. And so just a smaller limit has impact. So. Right. It prevents. It prevents individuals from becoming their own worst enemy, racking up more and more debt. Like you limit the credit limit. They can't. They can't hammer themselves in the foot nearly as hard. And you know, is a smaller limit prevents that. Right. Forcing a tightening of the budget or to turn elsewhere for debt. By the way, there are worse debts than credit cards. I think that's an underappreciated reality that if you lower credit card limits, people are going to get even worse forms of debt. But a smaller credit limit on top of that also impacts your credit score. If you spend, let's say, $4,000 a month and your limit is $8,000, well, that's not good because it's affecting your utilization rate, which impacts your credit score. If your limit is $30,000 and you're spending that same $4,000 a month, you're doing great. Right. At least from a credit score perspective. So I just think it's worth. Matt, this seems like a maybe canary in the coal mine sort of thing. Like the. Again, this is something that is starting to happen. I don't know how widespread it is, but, like, if you handle credit cards wisely, you could preemptively even ask to have your limit raised, maybe insulating you from this a little bit. That might be one proactive move to make. You could also snag another card, which, yeah, temporarily dings your credit score, but it's ultimately beneficial. And if you have a credit card you rarely use, use it for a purchase or two. So you aren't maybe on the chopping block having your credit limit carved down significantly, which impacts your score because you're actually keeping that credit alive in your credit mix.

[C]

Yeah, it's all about having that good credit hygiene. Joel, the Washington Post had an interesting article about this tiny home manufacturer. And man, anytime I see anything about tiny homes, this total click, clickbait for me, because I'm just like, I want to see how small the space can be. It's sort of like there's like a

[B]

YouTube show where some New Zealander was going through people's tiny homes, and I would. I've watched a few episodes back in the day. It's. It's like you're so intrigued by it.

[C]

It's just fascinating. It's how. It's just interesting to see how small of a space you could potentially live in. It makes me think about the first time I went to Ikea, and they've got the different rooms and they're just like, living in 317 square feet or whatever. It is just like, really, this is 317 square feet. It's totally possible. I think that sort of challenge is a part of the, like, I don't know, it's voyeurism, but it's also done in a way that's, you know, potentially going to save you money.

[B]

There's also that creativity, by the way, that goes into tiny home design.

[C]

Because of where things are, everything has to serve multiple.

[B]

Yeah, the beds in a loft, like, whatever. I mean, there's all these ways that you have to, like, try to maximize the square footage that you have that in a big home, you just don't.

[C]

That's right. Okay, so the article here in question that we're referring to was about this company and they're making these 400 square foot little homes, tiny homes. They're churning them out every eight days, specifically from this warehouse in Alabama. They build them on trailers, like these really big trailers. So they're on wheels and they look pretty good. And even the nicest, like fanciest biggest one is under $200,000, which is amazing. Obviously you still need to find somewhere to park it. Land also costs money. But still, despite local laws that prevent some folks from putting these on their properties, which is a problem, we are seeing more cities, more municipalities loosening the rules for ADUs for tiny homes, which I think is a total win win, man. You get something that's affordable for people, it's opening up inventory for other homes that other folks may not consider.

[B]

And zoning laws have kind of been part of the problem with, when it comes to housing supply in this country, whether it's preventing new building, whether it's preventing homes of certain sizes from being built. Even though a lot of people would be really happy, thrilled in fact, to live in like a tiny home neighborhood that's just essentially illegal according to laws in many places.

[C]

Yeah, I think so. And I just love the process too. I mean, they've got some good pictures and they were showing these homes being built in the actual warehouse, which is like. That is why they're able to make these things in like eight days. Because it is a completely like you were limiting, you were eliminating some of the variables that take place when you are building on site construction.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I think the more we can kind of move in this direction, and I know there's plenty of folks who are like, oh, but you, I don't know. There's a certain sort of artistry and carpentry that comes with creating a house on site. I don't know. I still think you can do that within a warehouse with all the tools you need and you're just cycling through the homes. Obviously that's the difference, right, is you can't typically leave everything else be and then move the project that you're actually working on, which in this case are the tiny homes. But I just love the efficiency at play there. And I think more and more folks will be, especially for their, their initial home purchase. Right. Like you've got a bunch of younger folks and they're not interested in buying a 3,000, 4,000 square foot home. They're just looking for a place to lay their head somewhere that's nice that

[B]

they can call their own.

[C]

That they can call their own.

[B]

They don't want to have to deal with a landlord, but they want that happy medium between renting and I think

[C]

this is what that can provide.

[B]

I think so too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's, you know, there's been talk for years now too about like pre, prefab housing, like real bigger houses, not just tiny homes being built in the factory and then shipped on site. And I would love to see more of that too, like, because that will eventually, I think lead to reduced cost of construction. Right now homes are often just, it's, it's a, unless you're building a new neighborhood from scratch, it's a brand new design. Right. That you're, that you're plotting up and you're bringing all the materials out, ordering stuff individually. And so that just massively increases the cost. It makes me think too back from. Remember our conversation with Lisa, who worked at Consumer Reports? She lived in a little tiny home in a lovely place in the woods in Texas.

[C]

Her splurge was pea gravel.

[B]

I remember that. I remember that. And I thought that was so cool that she's just trying to make her tiny house a home by having that pea gravel surrounded. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so maybe we'll link to the, the actual company that sells these tiny homes in the show notes because I just love the idea. I want them to do well.

[C]

Yeah, me too.

[B]

And I would love to see also like people who choose something like a tiny home, especially for their first home. I don't know, probably hard to do if you got two or three kids running around, but. And according to the national association of Realtors, Matt, most millennials and gen zers, they would rather live in smaller homes in more walkable communities, which is something we've been in favor of for a long time. And I don't know, density, baby, I don't know if that's just young people. I think a lot of people kind of do have that inclination, but I think it is amongst 20s and 30 year olds that is something that they care about a whole lot more. And McMansions just don't hold the same appeal. And I think part of the appeal for young people too is that it saves them real money. I think for how to money listeners who own a home, there's a potential investment opportunity in this for you, right, to build an ADU or to buy a tiny home, to stick it on your property. So that you can rent it out and produce additional income. And I just think small and portable homes, they're not just a fad, they're here to stay. And I think we're going to continue to see a loosening of local laws that just make it more and more available to have smaller homes, smaller home communities. This isn't, this isn't going away.

[C]

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. But these smaller homes, they're not just cheaper, but they're also. It takes less upkeep on smaller homes as well.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So less to take care of is a legitimate reason to opt for a smaller place because maintenance costs become a larger burden. Cue the next article, which is from the Times. They profiled a new company called CASA that helps homeowners with virtually any and all maintenance needs.

[B]

So that's Espanol for home.

[C]

It is, it is. And the way it works is you pay a membership fee and it includes one and a half hours of handyman service every month. And essentially they're like, oh, you can get all the little stuff done and, you know, instead of it all piling up and you living in a home, you know, a place that you're annoyed by. But the problem is that it costs $200 a month and you're paying for it whether you use it or not. And I don't think this is going to work, personally. Like, there's multiple issues here.

[B]

It raised like, meaningful money from some of those Silicon Valley fund funding.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

But I can't imagine this works.

[C]

Well, obviously from the company standpoint, you've got the problem, like you've got the economies of scale problem to get over. But on an individual level, like, what I don't like from a personal finance standpoint is the, like the paymentification of every. Virtually everything in our lives. Right. Like, it's the subscription that you are now, like, tied to, as opposed, which is just a less efficient way. It's going to be a less cost effective way to manage your property, to manage your home, as opposed to looking around at what needs to be fixed, thinking, okay, I'm going to start saving up for that. That's in my opinion. I think that's always going to be how you're going to come out ahead from a financial standpoint. But obviously by this being provided as a service, there's a number of folks who are saying, well, I don't want to do that. Let me focus on what I'm good at. And so I'm not going to hate on CASA if they end up doing well and People want to sign up for that and that allows those homeowners to be really good at being a doctor or being really good at whatever client services thing that they do.

[B]

That's fine. Yeah.

[C]

But I'm just not going to do it myself.

[B]

No, no, me neither. And I'm curious, I wonder if maybe it works. It's going to work better in high priced cities and just not nearly as well in most of the rest of the country. This feels like an idea that comes out of Silicon Valley and then just doesn't extend to the way most Americans live and think about updating and upgrading their homes. Like I think most people that 200 bucks would be better off put in your pocket, saved up, I think. So when things break or when you want, hire a contractor, you know, directly and you trust instead of like hoping that this middleman who's taking the cut is going to provide better service than you can get finding it on your own.

[C]

And plus, an hour and a half isn't very long. Like, and like, just think about the last time you brought somebody to your house for to, to get a quote on something. Like, they show up, you show them the problem, you talk for a little bit and you look down and like it's been an hour and you're like, oh my gosh, I got to go to work. Right.

[B]

Like, they're like, well, I tightened the bolt. See you later.

[C]

Like, it just takes a while to talk through the problem that you have or if you're trying to quote something out. And I don't know, I'm all for the transparency and accountability. Right. Like, I think about you getting a quote for something and like you never heard back from the guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because he's just like, oh yeah, in the end I'm just too busy, which

[B]

is a real problem like in there. There are companies locally here, where we live, who are trying to address that. They're trying to be the company essentially that's like high customer service contractors because they realize that there's a lot of people who do don't follow through. And it's not even because it's not because they're jerks, it's because they're busy.

[C]

They're just busy.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so what I'm pointing, yeah, we

[B]

had some come out and say, I'm gonna give you a quote. Like, and they've like, oh, I'm gonna bring my, my roof guy out too. And then never hear back. Even after they pick in the time to initially come out.

[C]

Yeah, it just seems like a, inefficient operation. Yeah, I'm just pointing to the fact that I think there's a lot of room for some sellerpreneurs out there who are thinking, I'm pretty handy man. To start, like talking around, asking around in your neighborhood, maybe some friends who might have some different projects that they need done. You start buying tools that allows you to do the job even more efficiently, even more quickly. Pretty soon you got yourself a business.

[B]

Yeah, no doubt. All right. Hey, we got more to get to. Matt. We're going to talk about AI too right now, which the backlash to AI and kind of some new AI businesses that want to touch your money that you need to be aware of. We'll get to that and more right after this.

[C]

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[C]

we are back from the break and we've got the ludicrous headline of the week to get to now. This week is from Yahoo.

[B]

I think you have to say Yahoo.

[C]

You. You say you called me out last time.

[B]

That's how they.

[C]

That's how they.

[B]

You remember the song?

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah, originally, man, you're gonna bring back like the dot com, the dot com bubble, which it was. That was totally there.

[B]

I think actually before we get to that, ask Jeeves. You remember that site that just went bust? It was still around, I think, just no one was using it until finally it went under.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, gosh, that was so hot there for a minute when we were what, well past the day is 14 getting

[C]

excited for from a you've got Mail. Yeah, Which I still remember. That totally ages us.

[B]

All right.

[C]

On the note of millennials, the headline reads, millennials want to retire in their 50s. The math doesn't work. And this article is a mix of some helpful data, but also some faulty conclusions. So the author picks apart a survey which finds that about 80% of millennials have the goal of retiring early, but a fraction of them think they can actually get there.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So, yeah, it's true. Eight in 10 folks in their 30s and early 40s want to retire by their mid-50s, but only a third are confident that they can pull it off because it takes real dedication to actually get there. It actually makes me think of this week's interview. Joel, you talked with Mia, and she made some serious sacrifices to achieve some of the goals she had in her life to get the kind of scholarships that she had lined up year after year to be Able to graduate school with six figures of net worth to be able to purchase a home. Right.

[B]

So one thing and one thing to want that end result, and it's another thing to work your butt off, which

[C]

is what we're getting at here. Right. So if you want something bad enough, you got to make a pretty significant overhaul in order to get where it is that you want to be in about a decade. I will say, like younger millennials, you've got more time on hands. Us geriatrics is kind of like, all

[B]

right, if you haven't been doing it,

[C]

you've already kind of made your bed,

[B]

so you got to massively ramp up the savings rate to get there.

[C]

Yeah. And that also sounded kind of defeatist. I don't actually want to put those kind of vibes out there. You can take control and change your life if you are listening and you are over the age of 40. But I'm just saying, if you are among this crowd, it is crucial to not just want to retire early, but actually to make a plan to get there, to start making sacrifices to realize that there's, oh, there's a difference between this sort of pie in the sky hopes and dreams and wishes that I have versus the actual reality of what's. Of my spending day to day and which then leaves less money than I was hoping to be able to invest in the market. Oh, dang. Maybe I should actually do something about that.

[B]

It makes sense that, that most people we've just seen, I think, general job culture, disenchantment. Right. And especially amongst younger folks. And so it's like, yeah, do I want to retire at early mid-50s? Of course I do. You'll say that to any pollster who asks. But then the reality of getting there is just, it's. It takes, like, implementing a lot of the things that we talk about on this show, not. Not even just a couple. Like, you've got to kind of multiple have the Swiss arm knife approach to your personal finances to really pull off something like that, like retiring super duper early, especially if you haven't been. I don't know. I was just thinking, actually, as I was thinking about this, Matt, how your daughter, because you've talked recently about how she's investing In a Roth IRA already at age 12, she should have just barely. If you had a parent like Matt on your side, like, helping you get started super duper early, then her chances of retiring in her mid-50s, even without, like, going hog wild, man, it's. They're pretty high.

[C]

Like, it's Pretty good.

[B]

It's very doable. But if you're like, oh, I started at 32, 35 and I want to retire at 53, like, you just have to, you just have to run the numbers and do, you know, make sure your savings rate is high enough to pull that off. The best advice too, if that's something you, you want to accomplish, is to focus on the big three. And there was an article in Business Insider they were in talked about in

[C]

the newsletter this past week as well.

[B]

Big three. The big three, man. Like, when it comes down to it, if you want to move needle, you can, you know, cut out the latte once a week or you can focus on the big three, which is going to make a much bigger difference. And so those are obviously housing, transportation and food. Those are the main places to focus your cost cutting efforts. And when you talk to early retirees, they will highlight that, right? They will say those are the main three things. If I focused hard on those things, I could focus a little bit less on those kind of smaller expenses, those little splurges that ultimately weren't nearly as big of a deal if I controlled those big costs. If you want to retire early, it's going to mean driving an older car or having fewer cars in your driveway. Yeah, it might take.

[C]

That's like the biggest takeaway from the millionaire next door is like the majority of them drove old Ford Explorers.

[B]

Yes, yes. Yeah. Or the Corolla or the Camry, something like that. Right. And it's like, but an older one, it might take house hacking or renting longer or living in a smaller home, maybe a tiny home like we talked about. Like, it's going to take paying attention to your food costs, eating out less, avoiding the apps that like charge you way more for eating out because they're delivering it to your door. Trade offs, Matt, as always, are the ultimate reality in life that we come up against. And if you, I think that the truth is, if you want to retire early bad enough, a laser focused on these things is the way to get there. How to money listeners can do it. They can make it happen. We don't want to sound like naysayers, it's just that there's so many people who want to do it and so few people who want to do the hard work to get there. Cut your costs, invest the rest. And I think that this is a path that's still available to a lot of people.

[C]

Totally. Let's move on to AI. Let's see. Before the break, we talked earlier about casa Right. The investor backed company there. So there's another company that we're not really in love with here that's also received millions in backing, which is an AI financial advisor. This thing is called Astor. And just like you might expect, Joel, people are going to be paying a premium. So it's $40 a month and with that you get unlimited voice calls, which I feel like is a feature that feels completely unnecessary because like, do you think the kind of people who are going to pay $40 a month for AI backed investing advice are looking to actually talk to a fake person?

[B]

That's a good question.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I had like a recent chat with an AI on the phone and I don't know.

[C]

Were you convinced?

[B]

I don't know if I'd ever done it before. Honestly, it was way better than I

[C]

thought it was going to be. I was with very little pause.

[B]

Yeah. And.

[C]

Oh really?

[B]

It was kind of crazy. So my friend is launching an AI backed business that helps small businesses like, oh no. Make their processes better.

[C]

How much is his. Is his monthly service?

[B]

Well, he, he just wanted me to test it out because he's like, this is like on is very beginning stages. Will you check this out? I was like, sure. And so it's just 30 minutes call with this AI and, and let me know how it goes. And so I did. I was shocked.

[C]

Very convincing.

[B]

It was very convincing. And even just in terms of like, I would say, it would ask me a question, I would say stuff and it would reiterate back to me what I said better than I said it.

[C]

You're better at being Joel than I am, but would you pay $500 a year for it? In order to talk more about how it is you should invest. Right? Yeah. That's the thing. And that's what this company is doing. You know, I just don't see how it's going to work because at the end of the day, the kind of folks who are going to be willing to pay to fork out that kind of money, what are they going to want to see? I think that they're gonna want to see outperformance. They're gonna want to see Alpha. Like, why would you pay a monthly premium? If I can just listen to Joel and Matt say, oh, you should be investing in widely diversified index funds that are low cost. Look, I just told you that for free and I didn't charge you anything.

[B]

So like, oh man, you should be charging more.

[C]

I know. That's what we do here. We just provide this advice for Free. And so what are you actually expecting then? If you are going to pay something, it's not just to be wowed by whatever new AI chatbot that they've got set up or whatever messages and however it is that they're going to advise you to invest. You're looking for outsized returns and in that case you end up running the same risk as you would with some with an individual who you are paying, who's also saying, well I can provide outperformance, I can get you that alpha. Right. It's a really similar thing except that in Astra's case, even in the FTC filing or whatever, it says that just so you know, basically this is me paraphrasing, just so you know, there can be errors, misinformation, inaccurate information and were you to invest based on this, it could lead to there being decreased performance and results that you're not going to be happy with. Essentially just give themselves an out and

[B]

they might tell you oops, I'm sorry after the fact.

[C]

Did you read the type?

[B]

Yeah, it was right there. That doesn't fix the fact that like you made a non optimized decision based on some recommendation that was inferior because the model isn't up to snuff or something like that. Right. The other really important thing to mention, Matt too, if you opt to go with an AI advisor instead of a human advisor, is that AI doesn't have to have a fiduciary duty to its clients and then also it doesn't suffer the same fate as a human advisor if it's wrong. If a human advisor with a fiduciary duty is wrong, that is a legal standard that they're being held to. Right. And so the AI does it just. Well, yeah, oops, sorry, my bad.

[C]

Guess you can stop paying your monthly fee. Yeah. And then we'll stop talking to you.

[B]

Well, I guess then there's also, well, what if you're not paying for it? What if you're just using the free method of using a large language model and just asking it for help with your portfolio instead of forking over 500 bucks a year to one of the newfangled AI advisors? Well, one Wall Street Journal writer did that. She's been doing that for. She's been going back and forth with her AI about how she should be investing and she said it didn't do a bad job, but also had a tendency to over complicate things. And one of the other things she mentioned is that it had it recommended like larger cash holdings than were typical and so noticed it looked like a

[C]

pretty dang conservative portfolio for such a young writer.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

So early on in her wealth building career and that phase of her life,

[B]

I think I didn't like it well and I was just like flat out wrong. Sometimes when I ask get questions about particular like contribution limits to account or something like that, I'm fascinated by how often it's wrong. And then I'm also fascinated by sometimes how it can be thought provoking. So I think it can break down financial topics in an easy to understand way sometimes. But it's just important to still use AI like the tool it is and not rely on it as some sort of infallible place to get over the top wisdom. Right. That you can't get somewhere else.

[C]

Sure, that's right. Yeah. It also gave. So she was writing about this. It gave advice about where to invest given the ongoing war and those stocks have actually very much underperformed. So its recommendations made sense. But I just envision man like millions of people out there using large language models to help them just make little tweaks in order to optimize their portfolio on the reg in an attempt to time the market. And that's just not a good thing. This is like it's Warren Buffett's going back to his whole thing.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Like don't do something, just stand there.

[B]

This is the opposite.

[C]

You're looking for the edge at every like new headline that pops up. You could punch that and be like, oh, what does this mean? And you could be just consistently making poor decisions when it comes to your investing and AI obviously they're gonna, it's gonna provide its own thoughts, it's gonna give you its take. But that doesn't mean you should do what it says. And on top of that, just beware of the privacy risks as well on sharing some of that sensitive information. So close to a third of folks are putting in confidential Data even though 84% of those folks are concerned that their data is going to be made

[B]

public that this is data. According to Cisco, we're just so used to our data being publicly available.

[C]

We are just so used to the data breaches. And you're just like, what's it matter? I'm just going to put it out there. So yeah, I think it's great. It's helpful as you are trying to glean just general information and maybe someday we'll get to a point to where it's safe to use with more specifics and with more data that we're able to share with it. But I don't know, right now it still feels like the wild old west. And I would not be sharing any more personal information than is required for it. Like, like you're. Don't even think about sharing your social. You don't, you know, don't share your birthday, like, anything.

[B]

Can I tell you my password so you can manage this for me?

[C]

Don't tell it what, your mom's maiden name. Granted, it could probably figure that out, but I don't know. Don't make it. Don't make it easy.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

For our AI overlords.

[B]

Well, it's just fascinating to see too, that we're also in. In the midst of kind of like an AI hate wave is what it feels like. There's this like massive pushback against data centers being built across much of the country. And which I totally understand. Especially like when someone's like, hey, we're building this, we're building this technology. And it's, it's probably going to mean that humans are just not very important. We're not the smartest creatures in the world anymore. And it's probably going to eat a bunch of your jobs as well. Can we build a data center in your neighborhood? Of course. A lot of people are going to be like, get out of here. Like, get out of here with this data center, with this technology that's supposedly going to disrupt everything that's good about humanity. Or at least what we've considered normal. Did you see the commencement speech where the speaker brought up AI of Central Florida?

[C]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

And like all the, all the students who are graduating just started booing. I don't get it.

[C]

It's so confusing. It just does not make any sense to me because I feel like that's traditionally like an older generation view to change and technology. Right? Like, it literally makes me like my grandpa was a drafter. Like, I don't think I've ever mentioned him. Like a, like an engineer, like an architect, right? Like the big drafting tables. And that's how, that's what he did. And the company he was with, they started to modernize, I guess like in the 80s, and he refused to learn the new software. He's just like, nope,

[B]

that's so alt mixing not gonna do it.

[C]

I mean, he was real close to retirement. He's just like, why am I gonna go through.

[B]

Learn this?

[C]

And they let him stay because it's a really small town, smaller company. And they let him stay on through retirement. And he was able to be. He was like the Last man standing when it came to, you know, doing the old school pencil to paper kind of drawings as he was drafting. But it makes me think about that as opposed to having a younger generation. Like, so that's in my mind, the more traditional, sure, orthodox view of like,

[B]

the older you get, the more Luddite you become.

[C]

Yeah, you're just a little more crystallized and set in your ways. As opposed to graduates from college, I would think that they would see this as a massive opportunity to get in on the direction that the world is going when it comes to finding ways to utilize the technology to make you more. Not efficient, but productive. Right. Just as far as your output goes.

[B]

And I get that. But again, all those threats from the tech elite makes it feel, I think, less appetizing and more threatening.

[C]

And maybe it's just a PR issue. Right. I think like Jensen Huang, there's a lot. Did you hear him talk a couple weeks ago? He talked about how now as an immigrant, I didn't come to the United States saying, oh, I want to be a typer, like a computer typer. Right. But like, that's what it looks like for all these coders. And he was basically going to bat for programmers saying that like, hey, no, programmers are still going to have a job, but your tasks are going to look different. And so if you use it as a tool. And granted, this is Jensen Tuan, like, he's got a very vested interest in AI doing really well. Right. But, but I think that there's a really good argument to be made there that the tools that we use are going to look different over the decades and millennia, but at the core is still going to be us as problem solvers, to connect the dots, to glean insights, to connect with people again, services side of whatever job it is that you're doing. Yes, I do think more of the automated things are going. We're going to see fewer and fewer of those. It's definitely not going to happen overnight, though.

[B]

At least in the past, you can point to updates in, in like technology and workflow to actually creating more jobs. So when you look at, even look

[C]

into it creates jobs that you didn't even know existed. Yes.

[B]

You look at radio, where you used to have to splice tape together and now it's all digital. And just look at how many audio products are out there because of that.

[C]

And back then they weren't dreaming about podcasts, but like, look at the number of podcasts that exist today. They were only looking at, well, the tape splicer job. Is going to get eliminated? Oh, well, no. But yes. There's a whole slew of industries that have emerged because of although the move to digital apparently.

[B]

I don't know if you saw this, Christopher Nolan. The new film, the Odyssey was done on IMAX film that they had to splice old school style. I didn't really, because it's not digital because it's like three times the quality, the visual quality. So I love that. Sometimes old school stuff is so better.

[C]

Sometimes you buck the trend and you

[B]

pay the extra money to pull it off and make it happen.

[C]

And I will pay the extra money to go and see that in an imac. You want to go see it over the summer? I do. Okay, good.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

We're going to do it.

[B]

Even I don't know how. Do you think Matt Damon's going to be in that role?

[C]

I think decently well.

[B]

All right, we'll see. That's going to be it for this episode. We'll put links in the show notes to some of the. To some of the resources that we mentioned today. That's [e-mail] youm know it.

[C]

So, buddy, let's get out of here. Until next time.

[B]

Best friends out.

[C]

Best friends out.

[B]

That was interesting to see. Like they, they're using like a splicing machine from like the 1940s. Oh yeah, I love it.

[C]

It's like vinyl, you know, like, like there's, there's a quality there.

[D]

Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[E]

Velo plus is here to remind you that less isn't more. More is more.

[C]

Duh.

[E]

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