Matt (2:02)

I just thought of that.

Joel (2:03)

Because of all the jabs you've tossed over the years at my way.

Matt (2:06)

No, I was just reading some Roald Dahl with my buddy, my little guy, or the whole family, and gosh. What? Miss Trunchbull from Matilda. Roald Dahl does a good bit of alliteration too. And I wonder, and I know you're a big fan, and I wonder if that's where you get it. I think the one I potentially. I think the one I most recently remember was. I think they called her a formidable female. That character that she plays.

Joel (2:30)

I think if there was a Mount Rushmore of children's Book authors. He'd be, oh, yeah, he's up there. Him and JK Are up there. I don't. I don't know who else I put up there, but those. Those two come to mind instantly.

Matt (2:39)

Like J.K. simmons. I haven't read any of his books.

Joel (2:42)

No, different one.

Matt (2:43)

Well, instead of some banter, dude, let's just jump right into it. Let's talk about getting a job, buddy. Some people assume that more education is always going to be a good thing and that it's going to lead to better job opportunities, it's going to lead to better pay. That's a lot of times why folks do it.

Joel (2:57)

It's like the more initials after my name, the more highly I'll be valued.

Matt (3:00)

I've got no idea what any. Any of those initials mean because I didn't take the course. That teaches me what all the initials mean. We all know the value of a college education, of course, but it has also come into a bit more scrutiny as costs have risen steeply over the years, and the value of certain degrees has certainly declined. But it is not just college. Job skill certificates are. Turns out they're a bit overrated, too. Online courses certificates and credentialing are vastly overrated, as the Burning Glass Institute recently found. They took a look at over 23,000 of the most popular ones out there and which I'm just going to commend them for doing a thorough job. That's amazing.

Joel (3:41)

Yes.

Matt (3:42)

But they found that just one in eight actually delivered notable wage gains for those who completed the certifications. And the ones that paid off, they were mostly in the medical field. So it's like a nursing things that are required to actually do the job. And so I feel like even that kind of skews the results a little bit. They actually highlighted even a project management certificate that you can stack from Harvard, which, of course, you're paying for the name brand there. It's got a $14,000 price tag, but even that created minimal results. It was like some sort of, you.

Joel (4:11)

Would think, getting it from Harvard, adding that to your resume.

Matt (4:14)

No, people are going to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Joel (4:16)

Okay, this. This person, this man or woman has, like, extra pizazz because they got this.

Matt (4:21)

You know, I think the Ivys have kind of lost their. Lost their sheen a little bit, man. But so what we want to point folks to, though, is there is this online tool that we'll link to where you can see which of these certificates, which one of these credentialing programs that you can be a part of pay off and which ones don't. But yeah, we want folks to be careful shelling out a ton of money for education in hopes that you will get paid more because you may not. You might. And if you. And if so, I would also say encourage or see if you can get your employer to pay for some of that training. Because it's like, hey, this is going to better prepare me for this project that we've got coming up later this year next quarter. I don't know whatever language that your employer uses, but that can certainly help you now. But it's also going to increase your value in the market over time.

Joel (5:06)

Yeah, some of that stuff can be edifying from a personal standpoint, getting some of that extra education. Just don't assume that it's going to lead to higher wages. And also if you get someone else to pay for it, that might be the sweet spot. Yeah, I'm thinking even of Matt, my wife who like that continuing education is part of the joy. Like she loved school and she's kind of already missing it. And so she is doing like some additional trainings that she doesn't have to do that costs money, but it's like for the love of the game sort of thing.

Matt (5:35)

Right. Personal fulfillment. That's one of the reasons that you do that.

Joel (5:38)

Yeah. And there is a chance that it could lead to higher pay. But a lot of these things really, you might appeal to a certain demographic or a person looking for certain sort of therapist. But it's also like, are you gonna be able to charge more per hour just because you have this extra training? No, not usually so random, but interesting career news. If you have young children, pre K could actually be your ticket to higher earnings.

Matt (6:01)

This is the Pre K for pay.

Joel (6:02)

Pre K for pay part of our friendship. So aptly named. So yeah, not everyone wants to send their child to school at that age. But if making more money is your goal and there's a state funded pre K around the corner from where you live. Well, there was this study of Connecticut parents and it found that the ones who sent their kids to pre K, they made more money. And since that pre K runs on a lottery system, it's not just like, oh, the smart people choose to send their kids to pre K. It's really based on, you know, the first people chosen and some people don't make the cut. It seems like we're talking about causation here, which makes sense, I think Matt, like this makes intuitive sense, right? Because yeah, if your child is at home more, that means you have less time to work or you're, you have to go down to working part time because you have to do more of.

Matt (6:48)

The childcare and vice versa, man.

Joel (6:51)

Yeah. Or you're just less effective at your job because you're, you're juggling more things because yeah, you've, childcare becomes more of your focus and that often is going to lead to lower pay. And so this study was basically saying, well hey, you're actually going to make more if you send your kid to pre K. But it's not even just for that one year. Higher earnings lasted for years into the future in the study they really only measured up until your kid went to fifth grade. But just think man, it's like yeah, not just that single year but into the future because you're making more money that year. You're gonna make more money every single year from there on out on average. And I know making more money isn't the primary concern for everyone and those younger years with your children at home can be incredibly meaningful. Plus, not every state makes pre K free. But I just think this is helpful information to know as you're weighing the trade offs of sending your kid off to school early in one of those state funded programs. If you have access to one. Yeah.

Matt (7:49)

The real nuggets in that report were the fact that parents reported higher levels of sanity after their kids went off.

Joel (7:55)

To pre K, which that, that I believe.

Matt (7:57)

Well but I mean it's all related like literally when you've got more capacity to do the things like around the house or even to like rekindle friendships that maybe were on the back burner while you're in the fog of a baby who wouldn't sleep very well or those crazy toddler years or for some folks it's. Yeah. To get back into their career something that they haven't paid much attention to.

Joel (8:17)

You can actually focus.

Matt (8:18)

I know.

Joel (8:19)

Yeah.

Matt (8:19)

Yeah. Who knew? While we're talking about jobs and careers, one page resumes. They were incredibly hot there. Seemed like for a period of time in part because they made it really easy for potential employers to just on a single sheet to scan to know whether or not you've got what it takes to come in for an interview. But that task has now become less human centered. AI now calls stacks of resumes before human can even basically lay eyes on it. And so essentially to get past the first layer of defense, you've got a, you got to please the robot overlords basically. And they care less about the length and they care a bit more about keywords that you are or aren't going to include there in your resume. So it's going to. You know, it's basically searching to see if the words or the titles, the positions you've held, if they match what it is that they're looking for, that they're looking to hire for. And if not, if you don't have that included, it's a good idea, certainly, to revisit it before you submit your resume. I think it's. Yeah, I think it's a wise move to tailor every single one of your resumes to a specific job using the language that they are using. Not just to be sneaky, but just to. You are envisioning yourself in that job, figuring out how you are personally applying your skills and experience to how it is that that organization is going to be able to essentially further their cause. This doesn't.

Joel (9:39)

It's like a little bit of mimicking, right? You're mimicking some of the specific words that they call out, because that's exactly what they're looking for. And if you don't mimic. Right. If you're not including some of that verbiage in your resume, then you. It doesn't matter how qualified you are. You've got to jump through that hoop in order to even get. You have a shot.

Matt (9:59)

You haven't.

Joel (9:59)

Yeah.

Matt (10:00)

Essentially, you have not communicated effectively to let them know that you've got what it takes. And we don't think you need to go out there and deliver a resume that's like the length of Brothers Karamazov or War and Peace or anything like that. But certainly revisit what it is that you are looking to submit.

Joel (10:16)

And this might not be like the ideal world we all want to live in, Tailoring our resume to artificial intelligence so that we make it through that first barrier, the first round of cuts, and actually get in front of a human. But it's the world we live in. So I think you just have to. You have to realize, cool. If you try to live in that world of ideals and not the world of reality, you might miss out on opportunities.

Matt (10:39)

Totally.

Joel (10:40)

All right, let's talk about spending. Matt, Americans are putting down their credit cards in favor of debit cards.

Matt (10:47)

Yeah, I'm generally for it.

Joel (10:48)

Okay, well, I think it depends on your take here. Right. And you and I, we've talked about. We usually say good things about credit cards, although we have the golden rules of plastic. And if people don't follow the golden rules of plastic, they shouldn't be using credit cards. In the first place. Right, exactly.

Matt (11:05)

But we also just know that roughly half of people don't use credit cards.

Joel (11:09)

That's right.

Matt (11:09)

Properly, which is always why we insert a caveat.

Joel (11:12)

But hopefully, hopefully the vast majority of how to Money listeners are using their credit cards properly. But it's interesting to see kind of the tide shift and it looks like it might be a predictor, a harbinger of economic things to come that people are like, I'm getting worried about how much I'm racking up on my credit card. Maybe I need to make a change. And if I'm paying with the debit card, will I know that I'm not spending more than I actually have because it's coming directly out of my checking or my spending account, whatever you call it. But yeah, it's also not like the overall spending levels are receding. Like we're still seeing spending kind of happening at the same levels. People are just using a different device, a different piece of plastic. And it seems like they're doing that largely in an effort to rein in their spending, but maybe it's not actually working. It's true you can't spend what you don't have on a debit card. But on the flip side, you also don't get the same rewards or protections. I think protections are probably more important than rewards here because rewards don't really matter if you're going into credit card debt. I think a lot of people are like, oh man, it's going to be great to get that free flight. It doesn't matter if you're perpetually in credit card debt, that that flight actually cost you a lot more than you think. But the protections are important. It's something I think people under consider because if you lose your debit card and someone buys stuff with your card, well, you're trying to call those funds back from your bank. And if you don't recognize in time, you can be on be on the hook for some of the money that was taken with a credit card. You file a dispute, you're never out the money. That's true. You don't owe for purchases that were not made by you, so.

Matt (12:44)

Or refunds that were not refunded to you. That's a, that's a particular situation I'm finding myself.

Joel (12:49)

Oh, really?

Matt (12:49)

I won't share it now, but maybe depending on the resolution, we will see. But in the meantime, the credit card company has credited me. That's right. But that company is like not responded to the credit card company. And it's just it makes me, makes me not want to do business with them even more.

Joel (13:04)

It's like innocent until proven guilty. Right. With a credit card. Whereas debit card, you're more like guilty until proven innocent. And so it's, it's, it's worth it to take that into account. I think too, just on top of this, because of human nature and bias, no matter whether you're using a debit card or a credit card, Matt, I think something that used to be powerful for people was, yeah, checks were a pain in the butt, but people would reconcile their checkbook as they were, as they were spending, as they were making those purchases. And there was something about the act of writing it down, connecting it to your brain, the neurons firing, and just the realization that you had less money in your account because you were doing that reconciliation as you were doing the spending. Yeah. And I think the check ledger right there. Right. I think the swiping, the tapping, the auto fill of credit cards and debit cards is something maybe that we've gotten super duper used to. It's easier than ever to be parted with our money. So whether you're using, no matter what form of payment you feel most inclined to use, I think it's more important than ever to kind of just be on top of that, create a record and make sure you're following up and that the spending you're doing, whether it is on credit or debit, is actually fitting into your budget. That's true.

Matt (14:14)

Yeah. Generally speaking, I am in favor of folks spending less on credit because it's just less of a reliance on a debt product and more just tapping into their actual funds that they have on hand. Right. But it turns out that a part of why folks may not be relying on credit cards as much is because they're relying on potentially worse forms of worse debt products out there, like personal loans. There has been an 18% year over year jump when it comes to personal loans, but also by now pay later. And we wanted to talk about that because just the continued rise of Buy Now, Pay later is just showing that we are prioritizing this near term happiness over long term freedom. But something new here, Buy Now. New here. The Buy now, pay later companies, as it turns out, they don't want to play nice with the credit bureaus anymore. As more and more customers are falling behind on their monthly buy now, pay later obligations, they are worried that their user base is going to see a significant credit score drop. And so they want to avoid that at all costs, of course, because it's going to harm their business model. And basically, like, I hate it. I hate it. Because the Buy Now, Pay later companies, like, they are literally saying the quiet part out loud. They're like, oh, no, no, no, we don't want to share our user information.

Joel (15:27)

With the credit bureaus because their scores.

Matt (15:29)

Are going to drop. Yeah, they're admitting it's like on a house, like, there's a water stain, there's rot underneath the surface.

Joel (15:34)

There's.

Matt (15:34)

There's termites up in there, dude.

Joel (15:36)

And you just toss some paint up.

Matt (15:37)

And you're just like, oh, let me get some paper, just kind of paper over that. And oh, let's just delicately put another coat of paint on here so it looks perfectly fine. It feels like a, it feels like a house of cards. And I am not a fan of the fact that the Buy now, like the Klarna is, I guess I think.

Joel (15:50)

Afterpay as well, that the fact that.

Matt (15:52)

They'Re just, they've got cold feet and they're walking back from the agreement to start sharing the user data with the credit bureaus.

Joel (15:58)

Every day Buy Now, Pay later becomes a bigger borrowing segment. And every day that it's not factored into credit scores, credit scores become at least a little bit less trustworthy. And so at some point, as is.

Matt (16:10)

It accurate information anymore, we don't know. It's looking like it's not.

Joel (16:13)

And so, yeah, I would love to see Buy Now Pay later actually factor into your credit score.

Matt (16:18)

I think it's going to need to at some point.

Joel (16:19)

It's becoming too important of a segment of debt, products and stuff in general that it really needs to, for those to be accurate.

Matt (16:26)

And it's another lesson too. The fact that just because there are companies that are willing to lend you money that are willing to say, oh yeah, yeah, go ahead and get the thing and just give us like, I don't know, a quarter of how much much it costs. And then let's talk, let's talk next month too. They are willing to say yes, but it's up to you as an individual to say, oh, do I have the ability to pay back on these debt obligations that I've signed up for?

Joel (16:45)

Yeah, yeah. And just kind of going back to the credit card thing for a split second. I think you're right to say that we should be careful about how much we're using credit cards. And you and I do talk about some of the benefits of using credit cards, but we also have to speak to that percentage of the population. We have to talk about how nefarious they can be for a whole lot of people and it can be that kind of slow but steady frog in the boiling water. That credit card. Oh yeah, I turned to the credit card last month because I had some expenses that were out of the norm. That can happen many, many months. And then a couple years down the line, you're talking about $15,000 in recurring credit card debt and the interest rates, the interest that you're paying associated with that by not paying it off in full and on time. If you find yourself in that position, then this credit card debt is a huge problem. And we don't talk about this enough. Matt but the not for profit companies that will help you if you're overwhelmed or overloaded in credit card debt could be a great place to turn if you find yourself in that position. Money Management International or the national foundation for Credit Counseling are both two great places to turn. You can find a local affiliate near you if you. Yeah, if you're in that position where you've just overdone it with credit cards, we want to help you. We want you to get out of it quickly. And sometimes you need the help of a trusted friend to really make that possible.

Matt (17:59)

That's right, man. But we've got more to get to. We're going to get to how partisan politics will in fact make you poor. We'll get to the politics schmaltics part of the Friday flight. That and more right after this.

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Joel (19:17)

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Matt (20:59)

That's right. Yeah, policy genius is great. You know, with anything in life, the best way to get the best product or service is to shop around. That's what we talk about all the time here on the show, Joel. And that's exactly what PolicyGenius does. They help you to compare your options by getting quotes from America's top insurers in just a few clicks to find your lowest price, policygenius lays out all of your options. Clearly, the coverage amounts, the prices, the terms there Is no guesswork, just clarity.

Joel (21:25)

Secure your family's future with Policygenius. Head to Policygenius.com to compare free life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com all right, we're back. Time for the ludicrous headline of the week. This one comes from the Wall Street Journal, and we haven't talked about this.

Matt (21:46)

But as soon as I independently saw this article pop up on their homepage, I was just like, oh, there's no way that Joel's not going to want to talk about this. It. This is so good. This is right up our alley. It's like parenting, you know, we're young dads. Well, youngish, whatever. We got young families.

Joel (22:03)

I think we are.

Matt (22:04)

I think I've got.

Joel (22:05)

We got five year olds, you know.

Matt (22:06)

We got dudes that are. That are in kindergarten.

Joel (22:09)

I was hanging out with the young fellows the other night and I was like, what? What? Music's cool now. Fellows?

Matt (22:12)

The actual young fellows. Yeah, the dads that are in their late twenties.

Joel (22:16)

Dads yet, so they know what's cool, but I don't anymore. All right, this headline reads, She's 7 years old. Her parents are saving to support her when she's 30. And I think maybe in an attempt to not be terribly judgmental, Matt, first off, I should say to each their own. Like, we know some folks feel strongly about building generational wealth or they put investing in a 529 plan ahead of their own retirement needs. You do you. But we don't have to agree with you or think it's smart or a good idea.

Matt (22:45)

Yeah, this is our show. Yeah, exactly.

Joel (22:46)

We get to see what we think.

Matt (22:48)

So be nice, though.

Joel (22:49)

Be nice. I think to make things worse, Matt, this article wasn't talking about saving up for college or an able plan for a disabled child who they knew they were gonna have to be a big primary role as a caregiver in the future. This was about parents who think it's their job to ensure that their kids have, like, a meaningful source of income once they reach young adulthood through no effort of their own. Creating kind of like a padded place for them to land when they reach early adulthood. It's going to make their life easier. Their assumption was like, hey, if I can compound, fork over $1,000 or $2,000 a month to investment accounts on their behalf, the compounding is going to make a big difference over the next 20, 25 years, then I really am creating a substantial nest egg for them to tap into the Kicker, though is that for a lot of these parents, it's causing significant financial strain because it really is hard to meet your own financial goals and the goals of somebody else at the same time. And so, yes, seeing that, it was like people were kind of freaking out because they're trying to attempt this and then they realize that they haven't done a good enough job for themselves at the same time.

Matt (23:56)

Yeah, they didn't do a great job with projecting into the future. What is this actually going to cost me? What kind of short term sacrifices are we going to have to make in order to pull this off? And. But here's the thing. Stats from Pew, they show that adult parents do often help their kids out financially. Evidently 60% of parents help out their kids. But buying, there's, there's a difference between buy, like buying a dinner or paying for their portion of a family vacation. Right? Like, that's one thing if you have the means and if you have saved effectively for your own future, there's a big difference between that and then setting aside $2,000 a month starting at the age of seven. Like, that's. I think that's ridiculous. It's these, the classic teach a man. Give a man to Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man a fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Like, hello. Like, this is like the exact, like that entire lesson encapsulated in this article. And life decisions that people are making.

Joel (24:48)

Unfortunately, it's why we teach our kids to tie their shoes and we don't tie them for them every morning.

Matt (24:54)

Dude, literally, like two days ago, I'm doing laundry with my kindergartener and I noticed all of his socks are flipped inside out or they're like, kind of balled up. So A, they're a little wet because they don't dry very well when they're all balled up. But B, there, because they're inside out. He's. There's wood chips from the playground. And I'm like, buddy, this is, this is gross, man. This is a massive mess. And we had to sit there and flip all the socks inside out, pull out the wood chips. I'm like, why you need to take your socks off so that they're not inside out. And he was getting flustered and frustrated. He's just like, when I grab it at the top of the sock and I pull it off, it flips inside out. I'm like, okay, well, let's try it like this. And we put his sock on him. I was like, here's how we're going to do it. With one hand, you start to pull from the top, and with your other hand, you grab the sock by the toe and then voila, the sock pops off your foot. And he. It's like I just showed him a magic trick. His eyes lit up and he was like, so stoked. He couldn't believe that, like, oh, wow, there is a way to do this. And I think so much of what we try to do as parents is to. It's the passing of knowledge and experience and helping them to understand how the world works. Because, like, that is a part of, of what it means to live a satisfying and fulfilling life. If you don't pass on this knowledge, if we don't teach our kids, there's an element of, like, you are keeping them from the good stuff. I think some folks on the service are going to think, well, this is. I don't want them to have to worry about that. It's like, no, no, no. Them having to worry about that is where the creativity kicks in and they start to identify what matters to them. And so in a similar way, when it comes to investing, we have to teach our kids how to set that money aside. We need to model it for them and set up frameworks for where, you know, how they can earn money on their own through their own creativity and sweat and effort.

Joel (26:30)

I think you're spot on. And when I look back at my life, I remember at the time being frustrated that my parents didn't have the means to buy me a car. Like when a lot of my friends were getting a car in high school. Right. But what it taught me was better than just having my parents buy me a car. Having to go, you know, working at 14 after school was over, buying my first car, saving up the cash to buy it with cash, like that was, that meant so much to me. I look back at that as like a formative period in my life. Same with college. It was like we had to partner together to figure out what it was gonna be like for me to go to get a, to get a college degree and how much debt was I willing to take out. And I had to make decisions about my future because of that that were not just contingent on my parents. Deep pockets.

Matt (27:21)

Yeah.

Joel (27:21)

And that again, was formational.

Matt (27:23)

Yeah. You don't just get stuff for free. Right. Just get whatever car you want. You can't just go to whatever college you want. But you've got to make these decisions and trade offs and evaluate or make a judgment call on the value that you are receiving from a certain car or a certain school.

Joel (27:36)

Saving up a 20% down payment for my first house was doing that by my doing that because it was money I made. That's satisfying.

Matt (27:43)

Feels a lot different when you do that, man.

Joel (27:44)

If it was given to me, it wouldn't have felt the same. So maybe you might be think you're doing the right thing and I don't know, it's up to your family situation and your desires and all that stuff like I said before. But just think about what you might be taking from your kids if you're actually trying to fund their future on their behalf.

Matt (28:00)

Totally. Last recommendation. It's been a minute since I've mentioned Fortune's children, but if you want to see what it looks like to. You said create a soft kind of landing pad for your kids. That's exactly what the commodore did. The railroad baron. And they document the author chronicles. I don't want to call it a downfall, but essentially how the future members of the family were a bit less productive, let's say, than the. The patriarch of the family.

Joel (28:27)

And if you want a more recent example, just watch the show. Succession on a page.

Matt (28:32)

Yeah. Sounds like it's really good.

Joel (28:34)

It's. I mean, one of the best written shows of all time.

Matt (28:37)

So I've seen the intro because. Wait, did Trent Reznor.

Joel (28:41)

Yeah.

Matt (28:42)

Do the music? Yeah. What was it? There's something else I had listened to or watched that there was. Oh, no. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mutant Mayhem.

Joel (28:51)

Which Best kids movie in recent memory.

Matt (28:53)

Pretty awesome.

Joel (28:54)

So good.

Matt (28:54)

Highly recommend.

Joel (28:56)

All right, let's talk about politics. Matt, There was an interesting Gallup poll.

Matt (29:00)

Let's dive into it.

Joel (29:01)

About how politics is driving economic beliefs and investing strategy in really big ways right now. And the crux of the finding is that the majority of Americans are seeing more aspects of their lives through a political lens. And I think this is just readily apparent when we look around. We tend to see everything as political when, man, there's so many more elements to our lives and that make life meaningful. And politics are a necessary part of life. But like letting them color everything, it's just not smart. And you're living in a false reality if you do that. But especially on the investing front because that's what we talk about. But Gallup finds that Democrats are pessimistic about the market right now because there's. Because of who's in office. And Democrats who expect the stock market to decline over the next six months exceeded Republican beliefs by 59%.

Matt (29:52)

So there's this like pretty big swing.

Joel (29:54)

Insane gap based on the R or the D in front of the name and who's in the White House at the time. So Republicans right now, they're super optimistic. They're like, this is going to be great. My guy's in the office. So the stock market is going to crush, but also to a fault because there's a Make America Great Again ETF fund and it has underperformed the S and P by 20 percentage points. And to boot, it comes with a ridiculous expense ratio. But if you are so inclined to invest according to your politics and buy the ETF with a ridiculously high expense ratio, you can of course expect, I think, to underperform. Well, you expect the opposite. But in reality you're not going to do as well. And so it's just really interesting that people on both sides of the aisle are saying, hey, I'm going to let my politics inform not just what I think about the future of this economy and what the state of America is going to look like, but also specific investing choices that are working out to their detriment.

Matt (30:50)

Yeah, you have to stay apolitical when it comes to investing. Just because your guy is in the White House, that doesn't mean that the market is destined for historic returns. So we choose to invest like optimists, no matter the party that's in, that's in charge. And if you want to get involved in politics, if you're so inclined, sure, go for it. Throw your energy behind that if that's the kind of change that you want to see when it comes to, especially locally. Get involved locally but letting, as opposed to like getting involved like at the federal level, just online through your Blue sky or X account. I don't think that's going to pan out well for you from a actual difference making point of view.

Joel (31:29)

But letting changing strangers minds online through.

Matt (31:32)

What happens all the time.

Joel (31:33)

Joel, through my tweets, don't you know. Yeah, but of course those aren't working. They're not effective.

Matt (31:38)

Not effective. Don't let your political whims impact your investments because it could tempt you into putting away less. It could tempt you into selling, you know, thinking that things are going to tank. Right. Let's say you're like, oh, okay, this is the end and you move into cash. It is going to have these long term ramifications as you jump in and out of the market every two to four years. Even the tariff induced gyrations that we experienced back, was that March or April even that was short lived.

Joel (32:05)

Was incredibly short lived.

Matt (32:07)

Yes. Yeah, the economic engine of the U.S. man, it's really powerful. It's really resilient. Look to history that will prove that out that we can most likely expect the market to grow at around 10% excluding inflation. It's not a guarantee, but that is what we have seen in the past. And I'm taking my cues from history.

Joel (32:25)

Yeah. If you were to ask me at the time, man, and we talked about tariffs and what we think about tariffs on the show, a reasonable amount, I would have said, yeah, I don't think this is going to be good for the economy and this might not be good for the stock market, but I did not change how I invest, even though I thought that was a potential threat. I realized that the economic engine of the United States is so incredible that I don't think one person, especially given the checks and balances system that we have in place in our country, has the ability to bring it to its knees. And so even if I don't agree with some of the policy, which I typically don't, no matter who's in charge, agree with all the policy that's proposed or that's being implemented, there's more and.

Matt (33:13)

More of that policy that I find myself disagreeing with in the current administration. Initially because there's a lot of folks, oh, we're getting a little, maybe a little too political. Initially, a lot of folks were like, oh, he tends to be pro business. But there have been a. And I would have said, yeah, maybe so historically speaking. But then lately, gosh, yeah, is it worth talking about? We're not going to talk about intel and the government stake in privately held company now, but like, that's not something I like to see the government getting involved with private companies, it's not great.

Joel (33:41)

But also at the same time, America is resilient and we have again, a country, an economic history and an economic and I believe an economic future that's unlike anywhere else.

Matt (33:52)

Still the best. Yeah, we still the tops.

Joel (33:54)

More Americans, Matt, are working past retirement age, according to Pew. Another survey on top of that found that the majority of 65 and over folks are planning on skipping retirement altogether even though they're 65 and older already. And they're like, yeah, I've arrived at what's considered typical retirement years, but I'm not planning on quitting work. And when you look at the stats, like for many, it's because they don't feel like they've saved enough, saved up enough, and they don't think they can actually stop work completely. And for some people, that that is the reality. Even with Social Security, they don't have enough money coming in. Although to that I'd also say run the numbers. Don't let feelings alone make that decision for you. As I was walking through my parents, with my parents, their decision to retire, they had certain feelings about maybe not having enough. And then when we kind of took a look at it and we talked about the options they had, it turns out they did. And so they felt more comfortable after running through some scenarios. But for some people, really might be better off working longer to reach greater levels of financial independence. So much depends on the specifics of each individual scenario. But then for others too, Matt, these findings basically said that work provides a sense of identity. And so not working would just be this really hard psychological shift for a lot of people as they near retirement age. They're like, well, what else am I going to do with my time? Which makes me think about Wes Moss and the secrets of the happiest retirees.

Matt (35:19)

And how something you got to cultivate over time, man.

Joel (35:22)

Yeah, you got to be building that up in your 30s, 40s, and 50s so that you have something to retire to. I think too, this made me think that some people may dismiss the idea of saving for retirement because they're like, well, I don't plan on retiring. I'm going to be one of those people because I love my job and I'm going to be working into my 70s, probably my 80s. So why do I even really need to emphasize I'm just going to reduce my contribution amount significantly because that's not in the cards for me. But I think it's also important to mention that's not always up to you. Yeah, you should hope for the best, but also plan for the worst. You want to save like a pessimist. You want to save like you're not going to be able to work as long as you'd ideally like to. But it would be like not getting life insurance because you don't plan on dying in the next 30 years. I don't need that term life policy. I'm only 25. I'm not going to die by the time I'm 55 or I'm not planning on it.

Matt (36:10)

You don't always have the option, don't always have the say as to what's happening off in your future, man.

Joel (36:15)

That's right. Just because you're planning on something doesn't mean that it's going to happen or that an alternative can't happen. And I think being able to choose to work or to retire is a crucial part of being able to be happy as you continue to work in older age.

Matt (36:30)

Yeah. Well, Joel, maybe some of those folks needed to talk to a financial advisor. That's my segue for this next bit, though. It turns out that financial advice experts out there, they don't always work well for the masses in every situation because each of us finds ourselves in our own unique and different circumstances. Right.

Joel (36:51)

You're saying I am a snowflake.

Matt (36:52)

Man, we are all unique snowflakes.

Joel (36:54)

Ok?

Matt (36:55)

Financial plans, they can't be like, quote unquote, tailored for the average investor out there because none of us truly fit a mold. In addition to that, though, like, I don't even fit the same mold that I was, that I would have put myself in. That was like the Matt mold, like, from, like, two years ago.

Joel (37:10)

Yeah.

Matt (37:10)

Like, we are constantly changing. Our hopes and our dreams are constantly evolving, which means our financial plan is also morphing over the years as well. And, like, yeah, an interesting tidbit in that Journal article. An investing columnist recently wrote about how advisors are particularly ill suited to help what he called tightwads, which was the most fascinating part of that article, which totally resonates with me because I think that sort of like you were alluding to earlier, a lot of the how to money listeners out there have been doing the right thing for years.

Joel (37:43)

They've been super frugal, They've set aside a good bit of money.

Matt (37:46)

And a lot of times I think what those folks need is kind of the counter, like, not the typical advice. I think sometimes they need to be encouraged, like, on a more coaching level. It's like, oh, no, no, you get, you. You got the numbers figured out. What you need is more like a life coach. You need somebody to kind of help you to think through what you want your life to look like. Not necessarily even when you are in your retirement years, but, like, even now. Like, you don't need to switch from A mode to B mode. It's like there's a whole lot of notes in between.

Joel (38:14)

Spectrum.

Matt (38:14)

Yeah, it's a spectrum. I was thinking about it like, in music, because it's like it fluctuates and it depends on what's going on as to the melody that you're making. But I think more folks need to be encouraged in that direction, especially folks who are listening to our show. So, like you're saying, cultivating some of those things that make life beautiful so that you have something to Retire to so that and that not just as an end goal, but to enrich your life right now, whatever that might be, whether that's art or community or volunteering. Beautiful things, service. Like, there are so many different ways to be involved outside of your job. And I would hate for folks to continue to work day in, day out because that's all they know how to do. Kind of turn into a one trick pony, which doesn't sound very fulfilling when.

Joel (38:55)

You, you don't know what sort of dramatic life changes are going to happen to you, whether a family member, a spouse gets some sort of awful illness, a terminal illness. Maybe you're a single parent and you didn't expect that. And so I think I want people to be saving and investing to set themselves up for flexibility. But you also then need to be able to pivot, right. If you say, actually, I need to dial back my retirement account contributions because I have to, I have to work less so I can be at home with my kids more because I am a single parent now. Like, there are all sorts of things, like life happens to you and you can prepare as best you can, but you can't be fully prepared for all the things that can that will come to pass.

Matt (39:33)

So it's a fine balance.

Joel (39:34)

It is a fine balance. And so I guess on the advisor front, like, I think it makes sense to ask probing questions. If you are interviewing an advisor, make sure they have the ability to help you, not just the average human. They're going to take into consideration. Yeah, yeah. What your goals, what your ideals are. Yeah. So that they're not just like. Well, yeah, do it exactly like this. Because that's how most of my other clients are doing it. Like, you want somebody actually to be advising you, not advising the 50th percentile?

Matt (40:02)

Heck yeah. Awesome. All right, that's going to be it for our Friday flight. We hope everyone has had a fantastic week and that you've got an even better weekend lined up. We'll see you back here on Monday with a fresh Ask how to Money episode. And until next time, best friends out. Best friends out. Every business has an ambition. PayPal open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide. And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, pay later, and all major cards so you.

Joel (40:49)

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Matt (40:52)

Time to get growing. There's one platform for all business business PayPal open grow today. @paypalopen.com loans subject to approval in available locations.

Joel (41:01)

Why are TSA rules so confusing? You got a hoodie on.

Matt (41:05)

Take it all.

Joel (41:06)

I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, go off on me.

Matt (41:21)

I deserve it, you know? Lock him up.

Joel (41:22)

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No such thing. I'm Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I know how overwhelming it can feel.

Matt (41:38)

If flying makes you anxious. In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neil Barnett.

Joel (41:45)

And I discuss flight anxiety. What is not normal is to allow it to prevent you from doing the.

Matt (41:51)

Same things that you want to do.

Joel (41:53)

The things that you were meant to do.

Matt (41:55)

Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an I Heart podcast.