C (2:26)

If you just, you can't vent on the podcast right now.

A (2:28)

You just want to vent to me directly. But no, this is the Friday flight where we talk about the headlines from the the past week, how they're specifically going to impact your personal finances. Joel, everybody has been like up in Arms about the World cup prices. World cup ticket prices that will be coming here to North America this summer.

C (2:47)

Sporting events are just cheap in general, Matt, is what I found out.

A (2:50)

Yeah.

C (2:51)

Actually, I went to a college game, basketball game with my kids this past weekend that was affordable and it was free. Like, they had free tickets to go see the female basketball. I'm taking them kids again this weekend because I guess what, I got more free tickets. And this was not because I got a hookup. This was. They were widely available. Anybody could get these free tickets. But we're all prices.

A (3:11)

Thanks for not letting me know.

C (3:12)

I know I really should have told you.

A (3:13)

I thought I could have been. I could have been there with you.

C (3:15)

I thought about it after the fact. No, but the, the World cup ticket prices are nowhere near free.

A (3:22)

Yeah.

C (3:22)

Although I think they released a small, small amount of like $60 tickets or something like that.

A (3:26)

Oh, did they?

C (3:27)

Yeah.

A (3:27)

What's like, how high of elevation? Like, there's literally an altimeter associated with the seats that you get for 60 bucks.

C (3:34)

I know you've been saving up, though, you. Because we're going to have good memories here. Are you, are you going to go through with it? Are you going to buy tickets?

A (3:40)

Okay, so here. It's funny that you bring that up because that's literally a conversation Kate and I had at the end of last year, beginning of this year, as we're doing budget planning, we're looking at our savings buckets, how much we either went over on some of those or how much surplus we have in them. And this is a category that I guess it was. Was it like four years ago?

C (3:58)

Yeah.

A (3:58)

Listeners maybe can go back and they're not going to go back, but listeners might remember us talking about this and how I thought, you know what, we're going to have some kids, and I think there's a good chance that they're going to be into soccer by the time 2026 rolls around. And I want to be able to take them one, if not multiple or, you know, the whole family to see some World cup matches. And specifically, the reason for that was at that point in time, four years ago, I was really into soccer, and so I was going to MLS matches all the time. It is not something that I have kept up and nor is it a sport that the kids have really taken up. I mean, there's all sorts of other stuff we're doing, but soccer isn't one of them. And so I actually asked Kate, as we're looking at the 2026 budget, and I Said, hey, what do you want.

C (4:43)

To do with this?

A (4:43)

Because I doubt we're going to go especially based on how expensive the prices were because I based the ticket prices on the average ticket price and was it in Qatar last time? And so they published all the prices and it is significantly more than what the standard ticket was back then. And she was fine with us just rolling that into some other special occasion entertainment expense essentially. Essentially you're like relabeling it. Not World cup, but let's just keep it earmarked for something else. So all that being said, I'm not currently at least planning to go to World cup match.

C (5:20)

Same.

A (5:20)

I signed up, I created a few like at the beginning because I wanted to see how much were they actually going to be for the different matches and logged in and you know like the FIFA portal or whatever where you could, where you could do that. But I was, yeah, I was a.

C (5:31)

Little disheartened I think of the World cup kind of like the Olympics obviously. Like soccer specific Olympics essentially. Right. Because it's nations around the world competing and how often do you get it in your hometown and be really fun to go see a game even if it's just some sort of like friendly or something ahead of time. I don't even care if I get the opportunity to go for a reasonable price, I will because I look back on the one World Series game I've been to. I remember and the, the one.

A (5:55)

So pumped about that.

C (5:56)

Yeah. The one MLS cup final I went to and you know, would I have paid $1,000 for those tickets? No, but like when they were sub. 200 bucks. All right, okay, I'm, I'm happy to do that. So if I get access to a reasonably priced ticket, I'll go. But other than that, I'm just not going to fork over a ton of money for it. I don't care enough either. But to be able to say you were there and like I get that Beltran played Portugal or something like that, that'd be awesome.

A (6:18)

Those tickets won't be going.

C (6:19)

No, those are going to be really.

A (6:20)

Those sound like expensive tickets to me. I don't what's how those countries are doing, but maybe I'll have to watch like Trinidad play.

C (6:27)

I don't know, some, some other no name country.

A (6:29)

Like. Yeah, I forget. I remember reading about it.

C (6:32)

Like they're derogatory towards Trinidad by the way. I'm sorry.

A (6:35)

No, I mean there, there, there are some countries because they've expanded the pool. I'm pretty sure like there are Some countries that have never made it before and this is the first time they're making it. So I'm guessing those may not necessarily be the absolute best matches. But yeah, as always, you are a valueist. And in a similar way, if I come across an opportunity and I'm like, hey, for get some last minute tickets, make it down there to see a match, that sounds like a lot of fun. We'll just see.

C (6:59)

One last thing here, a lesson I think everybody can learn is plan ahead for really expensive stuff. And hey, you might decide you're not going to use the money for that.

A (7:06)

Purpose, but then you can use it for something else.

C (7:08)

You got newfound wealth to use elsewhere.

A (7:10)

It's like finding a 20 in your winter jacket. But it's way more than that, like literally. I mean we've set aside like thousands of dollars that we had earmarked for that. But something else that folks are doing these days, Joel, after the holidays is making all those return like all that crap that you don't want or that maybe you realized wasn't going to be a great gift. Most retailers are going to allow you to make those returns through the end of the month. I was recently at Whole Foods making like a bulk Amazon return drop off and they had, it was like a holding pin. Oh I bet like with the ropes and stuff like going down the aisle. And luckily I was there when it wasn't crowded at all. I was able to just walk straight up. But I, I could imagine what that was like a few days prior, like.

C (7:56)

The Saturday right after Christmas or something like that.

A (7:58)

Oh my gosh.

C (7:58)

Yeah, that's not the day to return. I'm fine. Another time.

A (8:01)

But you might get charged for making some of those returns though, so keep an eye out for that. Obviously returns are an expensive reality for a lot of retailers and so because of that many folks are, many companies are taking a lump out of their customers for bringing these items back. 3/4 of retailers have made their return policy less generous. So we're gonna call out a few here. TJ Maxx, Marshalls, they're charging 12 bucks if you make a return online instead of in store. Macy's, which I am very surprised to see is still around. I don't like do they operate in the malls that I'm also surprised to see are still open cause Macy's aren't standalone stores. So I guess these are in shopping malls.

C (8:41)

I keep wondering about the mall nearest to us. I'm like how long.

A (8:44)

What's gonna happen?

C (8:45)

Yeah, is that gonna be exist in.

A (8:48)

The current form, I don't know, man, but Macy's, they're gonna charge you 10 bucks if you aren't a rewards member. Urban Outfitters, they're also gonna charge you for online returns. And I mentioned Amazon earlier, but they're kind of all over the place depending on the item, like where it is that you return it, whether you need to, like package the thing up before returning it or not, but get those returns done and try not to get eaten alive. Buy fees in the process.

C (9:12)

Yeah. The other thing I think is we're seeing retailers offer more final sale products and that's essentially to say, hey, we're going to give you a decent price on this piece of clothing or whatever it is, but you have no right to return it at all because we don't, we don't want it back. And I think you just have to know your size, know the retailer, and have an idea, at least I guess, of whether you're going to be pretty happy with that item before you make the purchase. If it's final sale. Yeah.

A (9:41)

If you know your sizes and you know the company, man, that's a great way. Sort of like you with your shoes. That's a great way to like take advantage of an awesome deal. Yeah, I mean, I think they're gonna have to cut the prices, slash them significantly. When folks are all of a sudden pushed up against the reality of I can't make a return. Oh, so I'm stuck with this thing and it makes them think twice about it.

C (9:58)

That's right. And okay, an even more expensive way to return stuff is to hire other people to do it for you. But of course, of course, in modern day America, that's something you can do. Instead of packages landing on your doorstep, there's, there are new companies like Return Queen that will pick those packages up from your house, you stick them back on the porch, and then they whisk them off to UPS or wherever they need to make those returns.

A (10:24)

I was, I was a little disappointed that you didn't say return Queen. Like, I was hoping you would say it.

C (10:28)

Slay Queen. Like that. I'll include that.

A (10:33)

But still, you didn't really commit, so that doesn't count. You might have to do it one more time. Maybe.

C (10:37)

Maybe we'll save that for the end next episode. TaskRabbit's another site where you could, like, hire people to do stuff for you. Those, like, return gigs apparently are up 60% on that site, according to the Wall Street Journal, and specifically the Journal found that some folks are even Reaching out to moving companies for help returning heavy items that they purchased. Hey, maybe you bought that rowing machine that Matt loves or something and you're like, I got to return it, but I'm going to break my back trying to get it in the car and blah, blah, blah. People are literally reaching out to moving companies, paying them to return stuff for them, which seems great. I can't imagine that's widespread, but it's a thing. I was looking at the pricing. Matt of Return Queen. It doesn't seem crazy, like 10 bucks for a pickup of up to like 12 packages or something like that. Of course there's a subscription you can sign up for and that's hundreds of dollars a year. But this is still an expense added, right to something that it's taking another cut. Just like retailers are doing now. Other places who will do the return for you are also taking a cut. Bloomberg called it an adulting tax, which I don't know if that's accurate because a tax is something like you're kind of forced to pay. This is something you're doing to yourself.

A (11:43)

That you are choosing.

C (11:44)

This is optional because you could have made the returns on your own and you're just not getting every penny back by as you would if you made those returns on your own. But I guess the bright side of this is that it means for a lot of people, they're actually going to make the returns instead of just letting that stuff linger somewhere in the back of their closet, staying in their house. This is where I kind of. It's weird because you're trying to value your time, which is important, but there's this fine line between like knowing your hourly rate and farming out chores on repeat and then just kind of becoming beholden and dependent on these new services that add up over time.

A (12:20)

This convenience culture that is completely optional. And you're saying too, the fact that it's not all that expensive. But you know how these new companies, these new startups work. They get their hooks in you, you get used to this new lifestyle and then once they've got market share, they just slowly turn the screws on you. That's how they eventually, or at least what they promised to their shareholders or new potential shareholders, how they're going to make a profit, but all the while costing you even more money. Let's talk about student loans because obviously graduating with massive student loan debt, it's never been a good thing. But I feel like in this area it's worse than usual as millions of borrowers are finding themselves behind on payments, they are falling into delinquency. And this is after a pretty long pause that we've seen basically starting with the COVID pandemic era. Those folks are going to be in for a rude awakening, though, in 2026. Wage garnishment is beginning. Those notices are being sent out this week. And it's not just paychecks that could see up to a 15% reduction. It's the tax refunds as well. Many borrowers are going to have their entire refund taken by the government come April. And that's also going to be a rude awakening because I think a lot, I mean, a lot of folks, they talk about how dependent they are on that sort of cash infusion in the spring, because for what the average tax.

C (13:36)

Refund, something like $4,000, I want to.

A (13:38)

Say, like, it's a lot of money.

C (13:39)

It's a lot of money.

A (13:39)

And so obviously being in default is going to mess up your credit score, but it's going to cause other potential financial issues as well. And, you know, we're not going to weigh in on the issues of fairness. But either way, the goal is to get out of student loan payment default quickly. Switching repayment plans, that might be your best bet if you are having a difficult time paying every month. We will link to the Department of Education loan simulator and it's got a few different options there where you can sort of see what your options might be.

C (14:09)

Yeah. And you can object, by the way, if you think that the delinquency is an error. But what's, I think, is it 5 million borrowers, Matt, who find themselves like something like 270 plus days behind again? I get it, the whiplash and the. Are student loans even a thing anymore? Like, that's the way it felt two years ago. Yes, they're a thing. And yes, repayments have started. And if you find yourself, by the way, between a rock and a hard place with very little help from a gutted education department, well, then you're going to want to consider potentially more drastic measures. In particular, we're actually seeing more student loans being discharged via bankruptcy. A simpler process was essentially introduced under the Biden administration, and it's starting to bear fruit for some borrowers who go to court in an attempt to get their loans dismissed outright. It's obviously a drastic measure, but at least for some who meet what's known as the undue hardship framework, who kind of check a few different boxes and can prove basically that their student loan payment is completely unaffordable, they can have the balance essentially eradicated. This might be, at least for some people who are significantly struggling, who really cannot afford to pay that student loan balance. That might be their most realistic shot at, at ditching it.

A (15:25)

Yeah, and it's interesting though, the, the, the quote unquote undue hardship framework is not clearly defined as to what that means. And so if you are looking to have your student loans discharged like that in bankruptcy, well, just know that it's still the wild, wild west. And I wanted to mention too, if.

C (15:42)

There are some people who specialize in that, like student loan lawyers. I literally subscribed to an email newsletter of a student loan lawyer because he has such great insight on this front. And you might find that you need the help of a professional. And even then, right, you're still, it's still not surefire that you're gonna win. And maybe you now owe lawyers fees and you still owe your student loans. And so there's potential problem going that route as well.

A (16:05)

It takes a certain amount of insight and wisdom to know it's not a black or white answer. This is one where you kind of have to feel it out. And I wanted to mention, like, if you have no idea where it is.

C (16:14)

That you should start.

A (16:15)

We've talked with folks from Student Loan Planner before and we'll link to a resource in our show notes there as well, because they can help you to put together a plan and to figure out the best path forward for you as an individual to not only get out of defaul, but to really just be able to tackle your student loans.

C (16:30)

That's where spending money to hire an expert can save you money and help.

A (16:34)

You potentially a lot more help.

C (16:36)

You know that you're on the right path.

A (16:37)

Okay, so while we are talking about higher ed, friend of the show, Ron Lieber, he continues to document how expensive college can be and specifically how to reduce the price, which we love hearing that. But he has detailed how hard it is to compare college costs ahead of time. It's, you know, you're basically trying to compare apples to oranges, but there is.

C (16:58)

This new tool and like opaque fruits too, Matt.

A (17:01)

Fruits you've never even heard of.

C (17:02)

Yeah, you're like, what is this thing? And that's because there's just so little transparency from many schools about what they offer in terms of financial aid and making that information public.

A (17:12)

Yeah, you're trying to like, you're trying to compare this like evercrisp apple to this. Oh, this is a mystery fruit. I've got no idea what this even.

C (17:18)

Is what's behind box number one.

A (17:20)

But he recently wrote about this new tool from a company called Niche that can help, or niche, depending on how you like to pronounce it. But instead of going to each college's net price calculator and inputting the information directly, it can do it for you all in one place. And then it can compare multiple schools at once, which is fantastic because man, keeping the price of a four year degree down like it's more important than ever. It's really crucial to making it a good investment. And we'll make sure to link to that as well, man.

C (17:51)

And we also have look prior podcast conversations with people like Jocelyn Pearson who can help you wade through the looking for scholarship stuff. Like there's a lot that you can do as an individual to go out there and hunt for money where you think about the hourly rate. Matt of like my nephew who's working at a fast food chain right now, as I did like in high school, and you don't get paid a whole lot.

A (18:16)

His time, an hour is worth nothing.

C (18:19)

Very little. And it's probably worth actually a lot more. And I've talked about this with my sister, like, hey, what if he took a few, worked a few less hours and spent those hours trying to hunt for scholarships? I like the idea of doing both because I like the idea of working in high school. But yeah, that's a really smart thing to, I think, incentivize your kids to do is to hunt for those scholarships because if you do it in the right way, you might find that the return is significant. Love it. Also, more students are opting to double major right now in an effort to improve career opportunities. We've talked about how the job market seems a little stagnant. And especially for recent college graduates, it feels like there's, or in reality there's less hiring going on. A lot of people who just got that degree, they're like, where's my job? And they're having a hard time.

A (19:08)

There's a lot of uncertainty right now.

C (19:10)

Yeah, well, and the data seems to show that double the amount of students are getting two majors these days instead of just one compared to 10 years ago. Other statistics show that folks with double majors are less likely to lose their job. They're less likely to have their pay cut. So I think there's a bunch of wisdom in the choice of getting two majors instead of a major and a minor. Double majoring. Yeah, it requires more effort, it requires more hours in a particular field of study, but it's possible to pull it off without spending more time at school or even forking over more money. When you think about it, Matt, what a full time student is. I was talking about this with my daughter the other day was 12 plus hours. But in school there's a lot of people who I knew and myself included who were taking 19, 20, 21 hours in a semester. And you don't always, you're not always paying per credit hour as a full time student. Oftentimes you're paying a flat tuition rate.

A (20:04)

A lot of, yeah, a lot of universities do that.

C (20:06)

And so take those extra classes, bring.

A (20:08)

All that extra load.

C (20:09)

Double majoring in four years is for sure possible if you're a little more pedal to the metal and then think about that. Easier to get a job, easier than to, to stay employed and get paid more as well.

A (20:20)

That's the big question, right? Is that it's. Yeah, only doing it for four years is still possible, but I think it gets even harder for a lot of folks as they pile on the hours because of the fact that like I remember, I mean, well, think about AP classes too.

C (20:33)

Think about kids graduating high school. Let's say they've passed their four AP tests, they've got some of those credits, then it's even easier for those kids.

A (20:39)

It's even easier. But like, I mean over the past decade, two decades, we've seen like it was a joke to be like, oh yeah, I'm on the five year program. Back when we were in college, like I talked with folks and for a lot of folks getting a four year degree, you can't call it a four year degree, you call it an undergrad, a bachelor's and six years is the new standard. And so we have seen some of that additional undergrad creep. And so I think that's one of the big tricks too is to make sure, yeah, you got to find that balance between getting out of school on time. Maybe you do want to stick around. Maybe there's still some maturation that's taking place and you're like, I don't know, I think some more time hanging out here. Yes. Working, yes. Taking additional classes.

C (21:24)

Maybe I gotta hone my beer pong game.

A (21:26)

Maybe it all balances out in the end. Where, okay, let's say you are there only six years and you've got two degrees. I don't know. It's better than two separate.

C (21:37)

Four year.

A (21:37)

Stints where you've got, I'm saying the numbers I guess could still be there even if you are extending it out to six years. You've double majored. But it's certainly something to be aware of, the fact that it, it's more likely to extend your undergrad if you were to double major. And you got to be, you got to be on top of that. You got to, you got to be a little more prudent and intentional with your time.

C (21:56)

I don't want to make it sound like it's easy, right, that anybody can double major in four years, but I certainly think more people can. And it might not have to cost a bunch of extra money or time if you're diligent. Right? That's true. All right, Slay queen. Matt, I tossed it in.

A (22:12)

No, you return queen. That's the whole point is that you say it like slay queen, but you say return queen. It's okay.

C (22:18)

I screwed up. All right, we got more to get to, including. We're going to talk about President Trump's announcement about big Wall street firms not being allowed to invest in single family homes again. What's our take on that? We'll talk about that and more right after this.

B (22:37)

The NFL playoffs are here and it all starts with wild card weekend powered by Verizon.

C (22:43)

Man, it all comes down to this.

B (22:45)

12 teams, six games, three days, and one epic weekend. My goodness, it's win or go home and every moment counts on the road to Super Bowl 60. It's a touchdown wild card weekend powered by Verizon. January 10th 12th. Visit watch.NFL.com for the full schedule.

A (23:07)

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

C (23:20)

So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

A (23:23)

Plus, only iHeart can extend your message.

C (23:25)

To audiences across broadcast radio.

A (23:27)

Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Let us show you@iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com all right, buddy. We are back from the break.

C (23:42)

Return queen.

A (23:43)

It is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week, which is from the Washington Post. Headline reads, abandoning homeownership may be changing how people behave at work and at home. And basically, this article was about some new research based on renters who have essentially given up on the idea of owning a home. There's this new study from economists at Northwestern and University of Chicago. Real smart folks when it comes to the numbers, but they find that and this is a quote. When people conclude that they will never be able to find a home, they put less effort into their jobs. They tend to spend more on luxuries and do less long term saving. Oh. And are more likely to invest in riskier assets such as cryptocurrencies. Basically, if you don't think you can buy a home, I'm just going to roll the dice when it comes to all these, in all the other arenas of life, specifically with your personal finances. Yeah. What do you think, Joel? I mean, I get it totally sucks if this is the boat that you're in. I understand that it can be painful.

C (24:44)

Yeah. I think it makes sense to me that people would say, if I can't buy a home, then I'm going to yolo some other stuff. Right. Like yolo those investments and I'm just not even going to dedicate as much money to savings because what am I saving for? If I'm a perpetual renter and I don't have a big down payment I need to amass, then screw it. But I also, I mean, I think it's a self perpetuating problem too. I think we've been in a, in a macroeconomic time that has not been in recent years beneficial to people who want to buy a home. And we'll talk about kind of starter home, single family homes in just a second. But it makes sense that people feel like because it is harder to afford a home right now, that maybe they'll never be able to afford a home. But I also just think it's important to mention that those dynamics can shift and policy 100% can change. Right. And so if you decide, oh, I'm probably never going to own a home, so I'm not going to save like I might be able to at some point, you're doing future you a disservice and you're almost like baking into the cake, ensuring that you never will be.

A (25:51)

Able to buy that home. Yeah. You are guaranteeing it. And essentially I feel like this study, it takes more of a linear or logical approach to how these 20, 30 who, however old they are, how they're making their financial decisions. Right. It's just like, oh, I can't afford a home, therefore I will participate in these less smart, more short term focused decisions.

C (26:14)

Riskier too.

A (26:14)

Yeah, exactly. When instead I think it could be a situation where maybe it's the same folks who think that way, who are, who are focused on the short term, the near term, those are the same folks that are saying, oh, well, I can't afford a house. Well, it doesn't surprise me that those same folks would then say, well yeah, I should be looking at how to maximize happiness today that means going out tonight, that means not saving for future me. And there's just a short termism focus to someone. If that's how you're thinking, it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't just impact how it is that you're approaching housing, but that it approaches how you perform at work. Because if you were thinking more long term with your job, you're thinking, no, I need to put in the hours, the effort, the creativity that's going to allow me to advance in this company. Oh, if I want to be able to retire someday, that means I need to set aside at least 10 if not 20% of my inc of every single paycheck. Like there is just a maturation process. Like that's something we were talking about earlier. But there's something about that that causes you to think a little bit more long term beyond not just today, beyond next year, but like years and even decades down the road. Like that's the. I think that's the biggest difference here.

C (27:22)

And I don't want to tell people who are renting, who want to own a home like be okay with renting forever because I think that's not necessarily in the cards. Like you might be able to buy a home at some point and I.

A (27:32)

Think you very well can and will own a home at some point if that's something that you truly do want.

C (27:37)

To do and if you're putting your money where your mouth is. But I also want to say for people who are renting maybe for a time, it is actually a really good financial thing for you. Like if you utilize the difference between what you're paying in rent versus what you would be paying on a mortgage if you were to buy today. If you save that extra, like you're going to come out further ahead actually financially, if you are a smart renter being doing the right stuff with your money given kind of the disparity between rents and mortgage payments right now.

A (28:07)

Matt yeah, totally agree.

C (28:08)

But obviously one other side of the equation that has kept housing unaffordable is mortgage rates. And yeah, mortgage rates are higher, but we also kind of do this to ourselves like a self inflicted wound. Most home buyers don't shop around for a mortgage. Zillow just released statistics something 2/3 of people don't shop at all. They literally just point at one mortgage lender and they're like, I'm going with you. And this costs them huge money over the life of their loan. We're talking about potentially lowering it by shopping right by with three different lenders, potentially lowering your rate by a full point, saving you hundreds of dollars a month, and then potentially tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand dollars or more over the life of your loan. This is, this is one of those things that I think in my mind is non negotiable. We talk about shopping around for little things online. If you can save 20 bucks on a pair of jeans, cool. But shopping around for a home loan, the stakes are so much higher. So include a credit union in there, include a mortgage broker in there, include maybe a local bank. But just make sure you shop around because, yeah, the savings can be meaningful.

A (29:14)

Yeah. And I want to circle back to what you were saying as far as like, you're talking about banking the difference between your rent and what a potential mortgage might be. Right. Like, you've got this. You're like, oh, great, it is more affordable to rent. How is it that I'm going to eventually be able to put down enough money to purchase a home? It's those practical steps that I think folks, if they don't, it's almost as if, because there's not something immediately in front of them that they are pursuing a goal, whether it's like a vacation or a very expensive purchase, you think, well, I'm not going to want that thing we talked recently about, like the World cup thing, like that's a bucket, like a savings bucket that we have maintained. Because I'm thinking, oh well, at some point we're going to want to spend that on something and it's something that we have slowly built up over time. Like literally we add 50 bucks to it every single, every single month. That's what we've done over the past, like I guess, four years. But I think it's important for folks to anchor the sacrifices that they're making today. Those actions. They need to anchor those actions to whatever potential goal that you might have far off in the future, even when that goal isn't clearly defined. I think for a lot of folks, not having that clearly defined goal is the biggest problem. Because once you have wrapped your mind around that, like, oh, I can picture myself, whatever it is that you're going to do in your new house, like throwing the plane fetch with my dog in the backyard, or sitting on the front porch with my partner, or inviting friends over to play cornhole in the front yard, I don't know, whatever it is, it's so much easier, I think, for folks to say I want that. And I think the really hard part is to understand that you don't have a specific vision for what that might look like. But just know that it's like, I don't know, it's like right around the corner. And that's the, it's hard to square that, I think for a lot of folks.

C (30:57)

There's also an article about people moving to the Midwest more and more. And so sometimes if you really, if that dream of homeownership is you're resolute in it. Like this is something I really, really want and you live in a really high cost of living area. Well, if homeownership trumps the particular place where you live, then you might find that moving is the answer to at least part of that conundrum. True.

A (31:20)

Speaking of Trump, I know you wanted to touch on something he mentioned. Let's do it earlier this week.

C (31:24)

Truth to that, I believe truth social an announcement that big corporations are no longer going to be allowed to buy single family homes and rent them out. And his he basically said people live in homes, not corporations. And Matt, you and I actually have not talked about this yet together. This is like I think kind of populist policy. I can get behind the giant corporations owning single family homes in greater numbers. They've led to rising rents in markets especially where these corporate landlords have been buying in a concentrated way. It's led to a dearth of starter homes for young buyers. Companies like Invitation Homes, they're not great landlords either. We've seen a lot of horror stories from tenants being like, yeah, they don't repair anything. There's mold all over the place. Some estimates show that corporations own something like 4% of the overall single family home rental stock in the country. Sounds like a small amount, but I do think the impact of this could be meaningful. But again, this is a truth social. This is a social media post. This will likely take an act of Congress to, to make it law. And there's no silver bullet to rising or to where home prices are. Right. Like just this one thing isn't going to magically make home prices back to 2012 pricing affordability for people.

A (32:46)

Yeah, but it is, we are never going to get back there. Like that's the biggest difference. I mean truly, you know, like, like I don't see it, but I don't see it happening.

C (32:53)

Better policy, encouraging of more, more building combined with this could all at least help make housing more affordable for the average person.

A (33:02)

Yeah, do you want me to provide my counter?

C (33:04)

Sure.

A (33:05)

Because I, I mean, I think the biggest flaw with this is the fact that it's just based on such a scarcity sort of mindset. Right. As opposed to the exact opposite. Like, we need abundance. Right. Like that's a word that we heard a ton of last year. Our client, the ability to. And oh, Derek Thompson, who we've had on the show before, friend of the show. But just the ability to loosen building restrictions and provide more supply for folks. I think that is much more of the solution. As opposed to 3% or 3 or 4% of single family homes owned by corporations. Like that is such a small amount.

C (33:39)

But in some markets where it's highly concentrated. Think like Atlanta.

A (33:42)

It's about that in Atlanta too.

C (33:44)

No, it's more like 10%.

A (33:45)

Is it really?

C (33:46)

Yeah.

A (33:46)

Okay, let's, let's say 10%. I know that like mom and pop landlords own closer to like 20 or 30%. So like, if you want to make a bigger difference on the ability to free up starter homes for folks, single family homes, these two ones, three twos, then maybe like there should be something done about investors who are looking to purchase some of these homes to further their financial position. It feels like populist politics as opposed to actual policy that's going to move the needle. And so in principle, just based on, like, theoretical. How are you approaching this problem framework? I don't like it. But also, of course, the fact that he's just like, I'm gonna do this thing, that's terrible politics. Like, is that even constitutional? We talked about student loans earlier. The fact that previous administrations said that, like, we're gonna cancel student loans. And even speaker of the House was like, yeah, that's not constitutional. We're gonna do it anyway. It's the same thing. And I hate that aspect of how policy is being pushed forward, at least.

C (34:42)

And really what you're getting at is supply side matters a lot more than trying to coerce the details.

A (34:49)

Control and supply the supply.

C (34:50)

Yeah, exactly. And if we incentivize more building, I think the greater supply we see is going to lead to reduced prices, especially in some of those markets that are most desirable, which is typically where it's harder to build than anywhere else.

A (35:04)

Exactly. And in those cases, it's almost less about actually providing incentives and just like loosening restrictions. It's just, generally speaking, being less involved. But either way, Jill, I think we can both, both agree that the worst kind of home buying or renting that you can do is buying A timeshare, Right? We in agreement there?

C (35:23)

Pretty much, yeah.

A (35:25)

According to Barron's Timeshares, they are making a comeback. But there are plenty of problems with the business model of timeshares. That's the combination of high cost, it's a combination of like that with low flexibility, bad resale dynamics all added together make them pretty terrible. From a. This is a place that I want to put my money and spend my time. They're incredibly hard to sell if it turns out you don't love yours. And like, if you think about getting into different types of real estate and you've got an Airbnb, you've got a VRBO rental, well, the pain is much less severe if you want to unload that thing or even change how it is that you are utilizing that space.

C (36:06)

Well, if you even talk about just renting a place, you rent a place on Airbnb and it sucks. You leave a bad review and you never stay there again. But if you buy a timeshare and you hate it, like trying to get rid of it, it's like getting an anvil off from the top of your head. Like Acme, I was talking about just.

A (36:20)

From the standpoint of, like, you've got a space that you've poured money into and there's options when you actually own it outright and when it is yours. But I hear what you're saying as well from a. Do I like the space? Like, am I getting the value out of it that I have wanted to or expected to? So obviously I'm not keen on them from a financial perspective. But if you are listening and you're still interested because of the almost immediate depreciation that a timeshare endures, I think buying a timeshare on the resale market is definitely going to be a better way to go. And we're talking about TUG Classifieds. It's the Timeshare Users Group Vacation, Red Week. These are all great resources if you're looking to get a. Get a timeshare on the cheap.

C (37:02)

Yeah. Why spend 25 grand on one when you can get the same thing for pennies on the dollar? Matt Taylor Souls Time overdraft fees got worse last year. Not shocking.

A (37:11)

Yeah, no surprise.

C (37:12)

It is worth noting. Like, that's like every. Every year, on repeat. The big banks, though, as it turns out, they don't make massive profits from these fees. That's not like they're one of their bigger profit centers. But they still add up. And they especially hit consumers hard who are living on the margins, especially when the average overdraft fee. The average is something like $35. And, Matt, the only big banks that lowered overdraft fees, almost everybody else raised them this past year were Wells Fargo and Truist. Whoa. Let's say something nice about Wells Fargo. For the first time in the history.

A (37:42)

Of this podcast, this might be truly the first time we've said something positive.

C (37:46)

Way to go, guys. Proud of you. The best advice, per usual, is to do your banking with one of our favorite online banks. That's the best option. Charge overdraft fees. We've even seen some of them take away overdraft fees completely in recent years. Ally, Discover, cit. Those are some of the best. They don't charge overdraft fees. Do business with banks that don't hate you. And keeping enough in your account to ensure that you don't overdraw your account, that's another smart move. But. Yep.

A (38:13)

Well, I've got a little confession to make, so. Well, you specifically said Ally, and I've actually, I can personally attest to the fact that Ally doesn't charge overdraft fees.

C (38:24)

Do you have a recent.

A (38:24)

So I have a little story, a little, little story to share. A little confession. Over the holidays, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take a serious break from email. Like, I didn't even log into my email for a solid week and a half, almost two weeks. And I was in for a rude awakening when I logged back in and opened my laptop and saw, I was like, oh, what are all these notices from not just Ally, but City? Oh, no. Turns out that during that period of time, I schedule my credit card payments for later in the month at the end of the previous month. And I was not paying close attention to my spending checking account there in Ally. And it had dwindled dangerously low. So low, in fact, that the last payment to one of my credit cards wasn't able to go through. And Ally sent a kind little email and they said, hey, just so you know, get your act together. We're not gonna charge you, but you might want to check with the credit card issuer. And so, of course, that's the first thing I did and was not surprised to see that Citi hit me with a $29 return check fee. So what did I do immediately, Joel?

C (39:36)

You called NEST to get it?

A (39:38)

Well, first I'm sitting there on the computer. Well, it already made because there's another deposit that showed up in the account and it automatically fulfilled because it retries, but still it doesn't erase the Fact that they had tried and got denied, they don't like that. And so I fired up the chat, was talking with somebody and mentioned that, and they're like, nope, sorry, not authorized to do that. I was like, oh, really? So I was like, okay, here's where you got to step up the. Gotta raise the stakes a little bit, you know? And just. I was like, well, I've been a value member for so long, this has never happened on the specific card. And a little dot starts going across the little chatbot, like, letting you know that they're typing something out. And basically, they said that they looked into it and they actually can't do anything about that. They're not authorized. So I took it up another level, dude. I took it to, like, dropped it down to DEFCON. DEFCON or 1. I think it's reversed. And I said, well, that's it. I'm gonna cancel this card. And I was shocked to see that they said, okay, would you like us to take care of that for you today? And I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This isn't a real person. This is just a chatbot. I thought I was talking to a real person. I thought I was chatting with a real person.

C (40:47)

So maybe you got to call the 1, 800.

A (40:49)

So that's what I did. And I was like, okay, I thought I was going to. I got to call up the number. Lady picked up. I kindly let her know what the situation was, expecting it to be a big hassle. And she goes, sure, I'll take care of that for you right now. And I was. I was shocked. I was dumbfounded.

C (41:04)

That's cool.

A (41:05)

It took me like, 20 seconds literally talking. She was like, yep, that'll show up on your statement here in three to four business days or something like that. And, yeah, it just goes to show, for I feel like a number of years, you could hop on the online chat and get fees like that reversed. But I wonder if they're starting to tighten down a little bit, because everybody's using that. Everybody was doing that. And so they're going to make you pick up the phone. But I guess the lesson is to not be afraid to talk to another human.

C (41:28)

I like it. All right, all right. Good job. Well done.

A (41:31)

And hopefully I won't run into an issue like that again in the future.

C (41:34)

That's a good lesson for everyone. One, check your email a little more.

A (41:38)

Consistently other than every 12 days.

C (41:39)

Make sure you got enough money in there, and then hit the 1, 800 number. If the chatbot's not working for you.

A (41:44)

The real customer service.

C (41:45)

All right, Matt, that's going to do it for this episode. We'll put links to some of the resources we mentioned up in the show notes on our site@howtomoney.com that's right.

A (41:53)

And that's going to be it. We'll see you back here on Monday with a fresh listener question episode. But until then, best friends out. Best Friends.

B (42:16)

The NFL playoffs are here, and it all starts with Wild Card Weekend powered by Verizon.

C (42:22)

Man, it all comes down to this.

B (42:24)

12 teams, six games, three days and one epic weekend. My goodness, it's win or go home and every moment counts on the road to Super Bowl 60.

C (42:36)

It's a touchdown.

B (42:37)

Wild Card Weekend powered by Verizon. 1-10-12 visit watch.NFL.com for the full schedule.

C (42:46)

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-granger clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

A (43:16)

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.