Friday Flight - Ridiculous Car Refinancing, Occupation Consternation, & Ads Everywhere #1059

Summary

How to Money – Friday Flight: Ridiculous Car Refinancing, Occupation Consternation, & Ads Everywhere (#1059)

Date: November 7, 2025
Hosts: Joel and Matt
Podcast: How to Money (iHeartPodcasts)

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Episode Overview

In this Friday Flight, Joel and Matt tackle the most pressing personal finance headlines of the week, focusing on the rising trend of ultra-long car refinancing terms, the evolving dynamics (and stresses) of the job market (especially around AI), and the proliferation of ads in unexpected places—including your fridge and car! As always, the duo balance practical money advice with personal anecdotes, humor, and a little friendly banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Timeshare Pitches & Rescission Periods

Segment Start: 02:42

• Listener update: Greg wrote in about the mandatory “cooling off” period after a timeshare purchase.
• Main Point: If you attend a timeshare presentation and sign up, you still typically have a rescission ("cooling off") period of 3–15 days (state-dependent) to cancel without penalty.
• Emotional Selling: Timeshare presentations rely on both household decision-makers being present, banking on emotional commitment and the "sunk cost" fallacy.
• Quote:
  "There's a sunk cost fallacy involved...You're only looking at that [time spent], as opposed to thinking about what this will cost you in the future." (Matt, 03:59)
• Advice: Check your state’s rules and use the rescission window if you regret a purchase.

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2. The State of Car Buying & "Ridiculous" Car Refinancing

Segment Start: 05:13

• Affordability Woes: Affordable cars are scarce; the average new car price is over $50,000.

• Car Loans Getting Longer: Refinancing into 84-month (7-year) loans is now common (even for used cars), extending the total time people are in car debt.

• Quote:
  "The most popular choice these days when people refinance a car loan is an 84-month long loan ... I didn't realize you could refinance it to an 84-month long loan." (Joel, 07:35)

• Consequence: Some end up paying car loans for up to a decade, risking negative equity and higher default rates.

• Repo Men Busy: Repossessions are up as more people default, despite longer loans lowering monthly payments.

• Advice:
  "When you're refinancing, the goal should be to get rid of that loan as quickly as possible—not to pay the lowest amount over the longest time." (Joel, 10:47)

• Related Trend: While mortgage delinquencies have dropped ~50% over 15 years, auto loan delinquencies are up ~50%. People are more likely to default on cars than homes, possibly reflecting attitudes shaped by rideshares (cars seen as utility, not identity).

Car Tax Breaks: Misconceptions

Segment Start: 11:44

• $10k Tax Break Misleading: Dealers tout a $10,000 annual tax break for buying expensive cars (per the Build Back Better Act), but it mainly applies for $150k cars at high interest rates (and strict qualifications). Most people only get modest savings (~$500/year for a $40k car).
• Quote:
  "On a $40,000 new car purchase at the same interest rate, your tax savings would be a little over 500 bucks." (Joel, 12:06)
• Advice: Don’t buy a car just for a minor tax break; it's not financially wise.

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3. Occupation Consternation: Job Market Shifts & AI Impact

Segment Start: 13:13

• Labor Market Cooling: Post-pandemic job boom is tapering; layoffs at big companies (e.g., UPS, Amazon, Target) are making headlines.
• AI Impact: Worries about AI disrupting jobs, especially entry-level and repetitive digital roles.
• Matt’s Take:
  "Those entry level jobs are typically the gateway into more permanent, higher paying jobs ... if you can't get the starter job, it's hard to get on that track." (Matt, 14:42)
• Optimism vs. Reality: While some sectors will be hit, Matt and Joel believe AI could boost productivity (like computers & the internet), but acknowledge “growing pains” and possible overzealous layoffs.
• Quote:
  "There are going to be growing pains ... But I just don't think these hiring freezes are going to last forever." (Joel, 15:15)
• Skill Diversification: More people are launching side gigs or pursuing additional streams of income for security.
• Personal Fit: Not everyone should be a “polymath”—some thrive as specialists. Know your strengths and plan accordingly.
• Quote:
  "It's a highly personal question ... It just takes knowing yourself, what kind of satisfaction you're getting out of your job." (Matt, 19:37)
• Actionable Tip:
  "Planning ahead for a layoff makes a lot of sense—financially getting your ducks in a row so a layoff doesn't hit as hard as it otherwise would." (Joel, 20:48)

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4. Lunch Spending = Millions Lost?

Segment Start: 25:12

• Ludicrous Headline: MarketWatch claims “we’re spending over $100 a week on lunch.”
• Hosts’ Reaction: Shocked by the normalization of eating out daily as an “expectation” rather than a luxury.
• Quote:
  "Eating out for lunch every day of the week has always been a luxury." (Joel, 26:35)
• Simple Hacks: They advocate for leftovers (“medium deli container size plus two fried eggs is the definition of decadent eating”) and point out how fast food is no longer cheap.
• Crunching the Numbers: If you invested $100/week over 40 years (at 7.5% interest), you’d accumulate over $1 million (29:16).
• Quote:
  "If that's not a motivator, I don't know what is." (Joel, 29:19)
• Frugality: Some people take frugality to the extreme (watering down detergent, cutting open toothpaste tubes). Matt shares his wife’s homemade laundry detergent hack to further cut basics costs.

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5. Would You Pay $20k for a Chore Robot?

Segment Start: 33:05

• New Tech Review: A $20,000 home robot (“Neo”) is on the market, or lease at $600/mo—but fails basic tasks, according to recent tech reviews.
• Skepticism: Both hosts see this as a terrible value. Early adopters usually get clunky (and expensive) products; it’s smarter to wait for later generations.
• Quote:
  "They need to pay me to test drive this thing ... They are now actually in the game of acquiring and gathering data." (Matt, 34:29)
• Exceptions: Robot lawn mowers might be handy, but in-home multi-task robots aren’t worth it (yet).

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6. Ads. Are. EVERYWHERE.

Segment Start: 35:40

• Ads on Everything: Not only are there more podcast ads, but now you’ll find ads on Jeep dashboards and even Samsung smart fridges (that cost $3,500+). Even TVs with subsidized pricing are subsidized through forced ads.
• Frustration Theme:
  "The rub is when you pay full price for something and it still comes with ads." (Joel, 37:02)
• Streaming as Model: Joel prefers streaming models where you can choose to pay for fewer ads; paying full price for hardware and still seeing ads feels like a raw deal.
• Social Media Saturation:
  "Estimates show that 4 in 10 posts are now ads." (Joel, 38:00)
• Instagram Secret Tip:
  Workaround discovered: On Instagram, tap the logo at the top and switch to “Following” for an ad-free, follower-only feed (39:24–40:30).
• Quote:
  "It's amazing ... that's a workaround because you have to do a couple additional steps, but I'm guessing most people aren't taking those additional steps to avoid it." (Joel, 41:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Vehicle Depreciation:
  "It's basically hit that fully depreciated mark. I don't know if it's going to go down in value very much. So, there are some cheap cars. You just can't buy mine." (Joel, 05:33)

• On Ultra-Frugality:
  "In the areas where [spending] is not, to be able to cut back ruthlessly, man ... I'm all for folks assessing their spending, figuring out what moves the needle." (Matt, 30:07)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Timeshare Rescission Periods: 02:42–05:13
• State of Car Buying & Refinancing: 05:13–13:13
• Job Market Shifts & AI: 13:13–22:00
• Lunch Spending & Frugal Habits: 25:12–32:58
• Household Chore Robots: 33:05–35:40
• Ads Everywhere: 35:40–41:26
• Instagram Ad-Free Tip: 39:24–41:13

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Overall Tone & Style

Lively, witty, and down-to-earth. Joel and Matt intermix practical financial advice with skepticism (especially of industry “deals” and current trends), honest reflections about their own habits (sometimes to a comical extreme), and a sincere desire to help listeners thrive by making intentional money choices.

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Useful Links (as promised by the hosts)

Find episode show notes, referenced articles, and other resources at: howtomoney.com

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End of summary.
Best friends out!

Transcript

[A]

This is an I Heart podcast. Hey, it's Matt. Joel's also here. And we are fired up because we are back in another charity challenge. If you've been with us for a while, you might remember the last time Joel and I, we went head to head. I may have come out on top.

[B]

Don't rub it in. All right, you did win, I'll give you that. But this year, we're teaming up in Daffy's Voices for Good charity challenge, competing with other podcasters to see who can raise the the most for charity.

[A]

Yeah, for me, that means supporting GiveWell's top global health charities like malaria nets and vitamin A supplements that save lives for just a few bucks.

[B]

And I've chosen fire, which defends free speech, undue medical debt to wipe out medical bills for families, and the Hope Effect, which is changing the way the world cares for orphans.

[A]

And the best part, we are matching donations so every dollar you give gets doubled. And if you donate by December 2nd, you'll be entered to win a trip for two, the 2026 iHeartradio Music Festival in Vegas. So head to Daffy.org voicesforgood find our campaign and donate. That's Daffy.org voicesforGood Where do you see.

[B]

Your career in 10 years? What are you doing now to help you get there? The sooner you start enhancing your skills, the sooner you'll be ready. That's why AARP has reskilling courses in a variety of categories like marketing and management to help your income live as long as you do. That's right.

[A]

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[B]

See mintmobile.com welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[A]

I'm Matt.

[B]

Today we're Talking ridiculous car refinancing. I occupation consternation. And ads everywhere.

[A]

That's right, buddy. This is our Friday flight where we cover the best headlines. The news that's going to pertain to your personal finances.

[B]

Only the best, Matt. Only the best.

[A]

Only the finest. This is the cream of the crop. Before we get to all that, though, a quick little update from. I think it was Greg who wrote in and he was talking about the rescission period that states allow specifically for timeshares. So we recently talked about how you were like, weighing whether or not you're gonna go to the timeshare pitch. You said no, because ultimately they said, your wife's gotta be there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was like, she's gotta be there for it.

[B]

And they were like, no, you're not. Not unless your wife comes. And I was like, oh, man.

[A]

Well, she doesn't like, changes the game. Which makes sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense to me. Right. Cause if it's just one person that's whole, that seems like a financial optimizer. That's a divide and conquer kind of move there. Right. Like. Like you are, you're. You're approaching this very strategically. One of these, doing it like that. But I pointed out if there's two.

[B]

People is that if you go alone and then you go back to the room and your spouse is like, what did you just sign up for? Yeah. That then those people are more likely to cancel. Whereas if you make the decision together, you're unlikely to cancel the time frame.

[A]

There's like a commit. There's something that happens from a commitment standpoint when there's two people.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Like so on. If it was just you, it would have been like the optimizer. But with two people that spend that amount of time and energy into it, it feels like you've. You've started something.

[B]

You've run through the gauntlet. Yeah.

[A]

Like you've created relationships. You started to dream about what this could look like together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's like, there's a sunk cost fallacy involved. Right. Where it's just like, well, we spent all that time doing that and you are. You're only looking at that as opposed to thinking about what this is going to, what this will cost you in the future. And that's at the core of, I think, what they're trying to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Promote.

[B]

Actually. I spent two hours here and I signed on the dotted line. I guess we're committed. And probably a lot of people don't even know about the recession period that exists. Depending on what state you're in, it's somewhere between three and 15 days after you've signed out of the dotted line for that timeshare.

[A]

So you do have, well, actually let's, let's link to that in the show notes for folks out there to know that you do have a cooling off period. Or you can say, nah, yeah, actually don't want to do that.

[B]

Which is, I think really important, especially because that is such a highly. I think it's an emotional decision that's made emotionally so much of the time because you, you understandably, the human instinct is you kind of want to please the person who's trying to sell you the timeshare. They're spending that much time with you.

[A]

You don't want to disappoint them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're sharing a meal together, they're probably.

[B]

Really nice to you. And so you're like, all right, yeah, and we'll get to take some vacations will be great. But timeshares for most people don't make much financial sense. Even if you really wanted timeshare, there are much cheaper ways to get a timeshare than paying full freight at one of those presentations. That's right.

[A]

Joe, let's kick things off. You want to talk about affordable vehicles?

[B]

Those don't exist anymore, Matt. I think that's an oxymoron if you've ever heard one.

[A]

There are some out there, I guess, very few.

[B]

I actually was looking up at the value of minivan the other day and I was like, oh, it's worth like less than $6,000 now.

[A]

It's affordable.

[B]

It's basically hit that fully depreciated mark. I don't know if it's going to go down in value very much. So there are some cheap cars. You just can't buy mine. Sorry, folks.

[A]

Yeah, you need that thing, man. What did you put for the condition? Because that's. I know what I know.

[B]

Oh, it's definitely not excellent.

[A]

Okay, but did you do pretty good or did you do poor?

[B]

Oh, no, probably whatever's in the middle.

[A]

In the middle?

[B]

Yeah, that's probably. Yeah, it's got some fish.

[A]

At this point I want to think that mine's in excellent condition, but I know it's not like in my heart it's in excellent condition. There are certain things about it that I know are excellent, but then I know from an outsider's perspective they would see all some of the busted up things, some of the spray painted side view mirrors that creative fathers threw on there in order for it to look slightly better. They might notice that.

[B]

Well, I think my 06 it makes.

[A]

It sound so ratchet, which I think.

[B]

Both of our vids probably are at this point. I would say my 064 runner is in mint condition. I put that in excellent.

[A]

But that would be an excellent.

[B]

So how long will it stay that way? We'll see.

[A]

Do you feel like it's already gone downhill since you've gotten it?

[B]

A little bit. I'm doing my best though. But they kept it in the garage. I don't have space in the garage for two cars. So I have a one car garage, people.

[A]

Well, if. What if you can clear everything out, Squeeze both those suckers in there.

[B]

I don't think it's possible.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We can try one day. Okay.

[A]

So I'll help you try it this weekend if you want.

[B]

Let's talk about expensive cars though. We have cheap cars, but the average American is opting for really, really expensive ones. I'm over here reticent to spend 5 figures on a car, but people are spending 50k on average on new cars. We've crossed that threshold now because of high costs and high interest rates. This means people are paying more for cars than ever before, which means that the vast majority find themselves on a debt treadmill for a really long time. We've talked about this kind of ad nauseam, but there was a new. There was some new stats that came out this week from Caribou who they help people refinance their loan and shop around and get a better deal. And they said that the most popular choice these days when people refinance a car Loan is an 84 month long loan, which I didn't know. I knew you could get that out on a new car. I didn't realize you could refinance it to an 84 month long loan.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

So let's say you get a new car, you're in it for a couple years and then you refinance again into another seven year loan. Yeah. Maybe you're able to save some money every month and maybe you lowered your interest rate. You've probably done both of those things. But it means you're going to be in the loan for even longer. Some of those folks are going to be in that like a car loan because they take one out and refinance for something like nine or ten years.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Hard to really fathom.

[A]

Yeah. So the first thing I think of when I hear 84 months, it makes me think of people who have like an 18 month old. It's like no, no, no, you need to go ahead and switch to my kid's a year and a half, he's two years old. Like they're trying to obscure the fact of how long of a period this is, I think by saying something like, like 84 months. But the Journal actually had an article about how repo men are actually busier than ever. They're basically working around the clock repossessing vehicles where folks aren't making such a dangerous job.

[B]

I had a friend who did that for. I think he still does it actually and I believe it. He's had some run ins man. Like people do not like their car being taken out of their driveway in the midd. But when the payments aren't being made, this is. They're going to take it is what happens.

[A]

That's what you agree to. And delinquencies on car loans are up across all income levels. But even with lower payments spread out over a longer period of time, way too many people are out there and they're unable to afford their ride. So just be careful when you are buying a car. You do not have to pay an arm and a leg in order to get a good one. And in that article as well, a fascinating stat was that home debt. So they had like different types of debt. So like obviously auto loan debt, but then they had home debt.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So like your mortgage or home equity loans, they're down significantly. They're down something like 50% when looking at the same period of time, which is. It's just fascinating that it seems like something has changed in how it is that we view vehicles, which I kind of think is a good thing. It. I guess one way to interpret the data is that more folks are seeing their vehicles more as a tool. They're seeing it as a more expendable thing. And I think some of that might have to do with the rise of Uber and Lyft.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like it's just a way to get from point A to point B as opposed to maybe having your identity so tightly tied to a possession like that to, to something like a vehicle. Which just really fascinating the fact that yeah, mortgage delinquencies, home equity loan delinquencies are down about this like 50% whereas auto loan delinquencies are up 50% over the past 15 years.

[B]

Yeah, crazy. Well, I mean I. Gosh, you want to keep a roof over your head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stability.

[A]

But it seems, it's just interesting. Yeah. When you look at the same period of time though, I Think some of it also has to do with not to take it back to the pandemic, but stimmy checks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, we found ourselves with a lot more money in our banks. It wasn't so much money that you went and bought. Went on like a home shopping spree.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it was more than just like going to your local REI and getting a few new items. You're probably thinking, oh, I can handle bigger payment in my life. It seems like taking out an auto loan that you couldn't afford may have been like the happy medium for a lot of folks.

[B]

Yeah. The activity du jour back in the day. Yeah. Well, I mean, I just, I think when you're refinancing, the goal is should be not to pay the lowest amount in your monthly payment. It is to get rid of that loan as quickly as possible. Or it should be. So it's not like how little can I pay every month to get rid of this car payment in who cares how long? It's how much can I pay in order to get rid of this car debt as soon as possible? That really should be the thinking. We're payment buyers in this country and that's not a good thing. On another nefarious car financing note, Matt, more car dealers are talking up the $10,000 annual tax break that you can snag when you buy a new car. Finished in the good old US of A. This was infused into the build back. No, what is it called? The one big beautiful bill act. Right. Build back better. That's all these BBBs. Right. Which just sounds so enticing when you're buying a new car and the F and I person is saying, hey, this is such a great deal. Like, you're going to get a tax.

[A]

Break of the $10,000.

[B]

Yeah, you're going to get a tax break. Look at how great this is. And they're making it sound like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

[A]

Holy cow. That's a lot of money.

[B]

Right. But it's kind of like the homeowner's tax break. Right. That many people don't actually get something like 10% of homeowners actually get the tax break. But many more think they're getting a tax break for owning a home. And the truth is you're only going to get the highest annual tax break if you buy $150,000 car finance is 7% $150,000 car. So who do those exist, I'm sure. Yeah, of course they do. But like, you're a psycho. If you're like, or you're incredibly rich. You have much more money than the two of us. But on a $40,000 new car purchase at the same interest rate, your tax savings would be a little over 500 bucks. So think about that. Are you going to go buy a $40,000 new car, finance it at 7% in order to save 500 bucks a year? I mean, that would be foolhardy. You also, you know, you don't qualify if you're single making more than $100,000 or if you're married making more than $200,000. Can't imagine buying $150,000 car if you know that's where you're how much money you're earning. Also, a lot of makes and models don't qualify. So you got to check the VIN first. You can do that on the NHTSA website. But you know, while this tax break is better than nothing, I guess I think it's actually offering the wrong kind of incentive to people, Matt, to get, hey, yeah, finance that car so you can get a tax break for it. And really it's still a drop in the bucket of the cost of your new car. So this is just bad math. If you're buying a new car because you think you're going to save a little bit of money on taxes.

[A]

That's right. Man. I wonder if we are now at a tipping point in the job market.

[B]

Because obviously you sound like Malcolm Gladwell over there.

[A]

Tipping point, it's a popular book, man. I'm thinking about like the post Pandemic Times. Right? Like that was a killer period of time for workers. Getting a new job was just leading to record pay increases because the demand for employees was incredibly steep. The supply of folks for those jobs was limited. But then we've seen that level out and unemployment numbers are still actually good historically. But the job market just feels a little stagnant. And we've seen more recent reports of just bigger name companies out there cutting headcounts by significantly like tens of thousands of employees. I'm specifically thinking of UPS and Amazon.

[B]

Who Target maybe too.

[A]

And at the same time worries about artificial intelligence, how that's going to impact the job market. Those questions abound and we do see the signs that it is impacting young folks specifically at entry level jobs. And I think it's a problem that could compound even more as those entry level jobs, they are typically the gateway into more permanent, more higher paying jobs. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't typically take some of those initial jobs because you think it's just a fantastic job, but it's the opportunity and it being more of a stepping stone and that feels like a problem that's just kind of that we're speeding towards still pretty far off in the distance, but especially as some of these younger workers are trying to just get their foot in the door and to get into some of these companies that they want to work for.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. It's a little worrisome to see college grads getting a degree and then coming out in a time where it feels like some of those starter jobs are harder to come by. Because you're right, those starter jobs lead to careers that eventually lead to moving up and lead to earning more. And if can't get the starter job, it's hard to get on that track.

[A]

How they get out of those lower percentile income brackets.

[B]

Yeah. Still, I don't think I would overreact to some of these headlines. I think, you know, far fewer people think that AI is a threat to their job than think it's going to impact the job market in general. If you look at the statistics. So kind of like so many other things in this life, it's less personal pessimism like, oh, AI is going to mess me over and it's more of like a general wariness. I'm not sure how AI is going to impact the, the way jobs function in this country overall. And I'd say the two of us, Matt, we're banking on the fact that AI is going to make workers more productive. Kind of like the computers, kind of like Internet. Did you get optimistic here? Yeah. And that it's not going to be an existential threat to labor as a whole, but there are going to be growing pains and I think we're seeing some of those growing pains. There are going to be layoffs in some sectors, probably specifically in the tech sector. But I'm pretty sure we'll also see companies that let too many workers go because of AI, like rehiring in the coming years. I think they're going to be like, oh, AI is going to change everything. Let's call the workforce. And then they're going to realize we called too much. We need some of those people back. And I think they're going to regret some of the, some of the layoffs that they made. So it's little consolation for current job seekers who are having a tough time. But I just don't think these hiring freeze are going to last forever. Sure.

[A]

Or the folks who are getting cut.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it is, it feels like A tale of two job markets.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it depends on, it totally depends on the type of job you have if it, if you are in a more administrative, more data review or a job that involves a lot of digital monotony. Not monotony, but like digital repetition. Like these are 100% the types of jobs that are going to be replaced. And so if you are in that kind of a field, you probably are thinking no, no, no, for me this is totally personal.

[B]

Yeah, like paralegals, like that's a job that's like up for extinction as opposed.

[A]

To the jobs that are going to be more difficult to replace like health care or skilled skill trades, you know, teachers even. Right. Like I could 100% see AI being more of like the assistant in this. In a similar way that we can't envision our life now without the Internet. And that's so much of it too, man. The fear of the unknown as we look ahead. Like you mentioned, the Internet being a good example. Well that's easy now as we look back and we are able to directly see all the industries and jobs that have been created because of the Internet. But we're at the very beginning of this as we're projecting, looking forward. And it's just for a lot of people it's scary because we lack the creativity and the clairvoyance to know what's actually going to happen. I don't know. But there will likely be some of that creative destruction taking place and brand new sectors of jobs that were not even, that aren't even on people's radars.

[B]

And you think about the impact of the Internet like you think about the dot com bubble and all of the companies that were trying to do something novel because the Internet now existed and so many of those companies no longer exist. Like there is even in particular as new technologies are coming into, into the mainstream there, there are a lot of new startups like vying to be the next successful company that are going to, they're going to, they're going to change right. How we all interact with AI. Some of them are going to be highly successful and many of them will fall by the wayside. And that is kind of part of how the economic cycle of new technology works. And there are winners and losers in it. But that's like whole comfort for somebody in the job market who feels like.

[A]

Put out the pasture directly under, under threat.

[B]

Yeah, it feels like they're getting the Heisman when they're looking for jobs because the market's tough and because there's A lot of kind of AI turmoil happening. Yeah.

[A]

A lot of these companies are looking to get leaner. On a related note, did you see the Business Insider story about folks who are basically taking, like, their side gigs and not side gig as in, like, driving for Uber or Lyft or whatever, but like a side business, finding ways to diversify their income, essentially, because they are a little concerned about the prospects of their future at that company. And this is something we've talked about, like, for a while. Yeah, essentially. Right.

[B]

The reason you and I initially started investing in real estate was to have another stream of income. Not just like, building up money in our 401ks, but. But saying like, okay, what does it look like? Then it makes it easier then to launch out and start your own small business because you're not fully reliant on income from your day job. Exactly.

[A]

Which we felt personally when we launched the podcast almost a decade ago at this point. No, not quite. Not quite that long. But I do think it comes down to the individual, because it makes me think about some folks who are more, like, they're more the renaissance man or a woman.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, they're more of a polymath. And if you are the type of person who can take on different roles, who can be more adaptive to the changing markets out there, I think that this is a path that you could take that could serve you well. But I do think that there are some folks who are specialists, they're experts in a given field, and were they to divide their attention away from their job, you would essentially lose that edge. And so it's almost a path of, okay, which path do I want to take? Given the constraints of time? Right. I can't do it. Also, which one am I going to choose here? And I think it's a highly personal question. It's very personal. I think it just takes knowing yourself what kind of satisfaction you're getting out of your job. Because I think for some folks to. To hear, to see the business because they profiled all these, like, success stories of, like, oh, man, he's making more money now on with his. With the side business. And it doesn't really matter that Microsoft let him go. I think if there's someone who hears that and thinks, well, that's what I need to do. But maybe for that person, man, they are so well suited for their role in this big company. And in fact, if they gave it a little more attention, a little more effort, they could lead this entire department, that kind of thing. I don't want to discount. Even though I'm highly entrepreneurial, there are some folks who aren't. And like you said, I think it is personal. It's good to know yourself. Agreed.

[B]

Yeah. And even just kind of thinking ahead about, well, if you're worried, if you are in that camp, who's a little bit worried about what's going to happen with AI specifically in regards to your job? I think planning ahead for a layoff. We've got content about that up on the site of how to money.com makes a lot of sense like financially getting your ducks in a row so that a layoff doesn't hit you as hard as it otherwise would. You want to make hay while the sun's shining. Right. You want to the calm before the storm is the time to prepare the ship, Matthew. So just it's a good smart to start thinking about that. Whether that's streams of income, whether that's saving more money, all the above. All right, we got more to get to on this episode. Including lunch is expensive. We'll get to that and more right after this. As you make financial progress, you might be tempted to abandon habits that helped you make that progress in the first place. But guesstimating and a lack of awareness that can lead to leaving money on the table. That's where Monarch comes in. I dig Monarch because it helps me keep my finger on the pulse of every facet of my money. Spending, saving goals, net worth, it's all in one place and it helps keep me motivated to keep going. That's right.

[A]

Feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or on your phone. And right now, just for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50% off your first year with code how to [e-mail] I love that Monarch is built for people with busy lives. You know, if you've been putting off organizing your finances, Monarch is for you and piggybacking off what you're saying. Joel about the habits Monarch it does all the heavy lifting. You're able to link your accounts in minutes. You get smart categorization of your spending and and real control over your money.

[B]

Do not let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use Code how to [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code how to money my how time flies 2025. It's going to be gone before we know it, but before it's gone. There's a lot of life to live, right, including a lot of kid activities, the holiday get togethers and a whole lot more. All this activity though, it can cause us to put off tasks on our to do list. But juggling a million plans shouldn't mean your future doesn't make your to do list. Trust and Will turns estate planning from a when I have time task into a quick, straightforward process ensuring you're protecting your family's future today. Go to trustandwill.com howtomoney to get 20% off their simple, secure and expert backed estate planning services. That's right.

[A]

It makes me think you mentioned kids, Joel. I might be done having kids at this point, but my friends, my neighbors, they aren't. I've got family members who have a fresh baby at home as well and it is such an amazing season of life. But those changes should also bring about a reassessment of whether or not you've got your estate planning ducks all in a row. Trust and Will makes it simple and straightforward. Their easy to use website is simple to navigate and plus all your information, all your documents, they are securely stored with bank level encryption.

[B]

Add some peace of mind to your future with Trust and will go to trustandwill.com howtomoney for 20% off that's 20% [e-mail] howtomoney as a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place.

[A]

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[B]

Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com howtomoney that's LinkedIn.com howtomoney to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

[A]

Alright, buddy. We are back from the break. It is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week. And we have a selection this week from MarketWatch. Headline reads, we're spending over $100 a week on lunch. How did ordering food at work become a luxury?

[B]

Which?

[A]

Man, this article rubs me so the wrong way.

[B]

I hate it. I'm surprised you don't have like a tattoo of leftovers somewhere in your body because you love leftovers more than anyone.

[A]

With my little deli container take out plastic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is it the, is it the small, the medium or the large? Most of my leftovers are in the medium.

[B]

You're actually. That would be a good, cool tattoo you should get. Yeah.

[A]

Somewhere that's just way too committed to the whole leftover game. And no, this just rubs me the wrong way because of the like, honestly the expectation that this should be something that someone should be able to afford.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like there's like this lifestyle entitlement that I so highly dislike. And it's totally fine if you want to go out there and spend that kind of money on lunch, but you got to be okay with it. You got to be able to afford it. You got to know that you're not going to be able to funnel those dollars towards some other financial goal in your life. But to think that it's this basic human rights that someone should have seems preposterous.

[B]

I think that's the thing that hit me with this too was like, how did ordering food at work become a luxury? And it's like eating out for lunch every day of the week has always been a luxury.

[A]

It is a luxury.

[B]

Yeah, of course that's a luxury. That's the very definition of a luxury. Yeah. It's not a coach handbag or something like that or a whatever. It's a fancy Hermes scarf. But it is totally a luxury to think that you can eat out every single day and not feel a massive impact on your budget. 100 bucks a week. Yeah. You're talking about like 400 plus dollars a month on food for lunch. I can't imagine. I would love to run the numbers on how much you and I spend on our lunches. Like it's be hard to factor out because most of the time it is leftovers from the dinner the night before.

[A]

Most folks, unfortunately, they're just like, yeah, that's worth keeping. And they just like scrape it off into the trash can as opposed to sticking it it's like, okay, no, that's a. That's a medium deli, container size leftover. That plus a couple eggs. You fry it up. You gotta nuke the leftovers. Fry up a couple eggs. I mean, that's like the definition of decadent eating right there with a yolk running over the leftover braised beef that you. Oh, my gosh. Like, I'm getting hungry. We haven't eaten lunch yet, so I'm getting hungry even thinking about that.

[B]

Yeah, I think leftovers are the answer here. And I think it's just also putting yourself in the frame of mind to realize what is a luxury and what isn't. I think if you. And maybe the only way you could go out to eat lunch every day, Matt, and not break the bank is to go to the Costco food court. If you're doing that. If you're doing that, you could probably afford to eat out. But then you might not be the healthiest.

[A]

You may not be. Oh, my gosh. I was just talking. Kate and I were looking at pictures of, like, us, me specifically back in the day, like, before Kate and I got married. And I was poor, man. Like, I was broke. And I'm thinking through what did I eat? Because I could tell from looking at the pictures that my skin didn't look good. I was really skinny. I told her I was just like, I didn't really cook at home. I think I was just eating bowls of cereal. And like once a week I might go out to McDonald's because back then they had like the value menu. I'd get a cheeseburger, a side salad.

[B]

So expensive.

[A]

Now I know a side salad and then I'll get a parfait and those three items. Thinking that that was like a well balanced meal. But in a similar way, you would also be fooling yourself if you were going to the Costco food court thinking that you're getting something similar.

[B]

But just I think that's a really important thing to mention though, is just fast food is so crazy expensive now, too. You think you're going to save money by going, okay, at least I'm going to get fast food for lunch instead. Sorry, no, that's expensive. Now, a Big Mac meal is probably 11 or $12. And so you can. Yeah, leftovers are way cheaper than that.

[A]

By the way, I did crunch the numbers. I thought you were going to say we should run the numbers on knowing what our lunch costs. Yeah, I'll tell you what it costs, what it's costing you. Where you two go out to lunch every day at work. Instead of taking that $100 and investing it over a 40 year career, you are looking at over $1 million in the bank.

[B]

Over a typical 40 year career from working motivator.

[A]

Oh my gosh. I don't know what is. And that's. Yeah, it was almost over a million dollars even with the 7% return.

[B]

So wait, a hundred dollars? A hundred dollars a week?

[A]

$100 a week. So 400amonth invested. Those returns compounded in 40 years, you're going to. I forget what the number was.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

At 8% is like one point something. And at 7 it was 9. 34. 934,000 or something like that. So 7 and a half percent got you just over that one mil mark.

[B]

Dude. Are we too frugal?

[A]

So impressive.

[B]

Sometimes I wonder, are we too frugal?

[A]

No, because we've got other goals. There's other things that we want to pursue and. Oh, actually there is an article. Okay, so the frugal habits article, you want to.

[B]

Oh, should we talk about that one? Yeah.

[A]

So folks who are like watering down.

[B]

Their dish soap, their toothpaste even, I think. Right. Stretch. I don't, I'm. I'm cutting the toothpaste tube open. I know our friend Maggie does that.

[A]

I've never done that.

[B]

I've never done that either.

[A]

But I mean, to each their own, you know. Like you need to be able to spend your money where it counts. But I, I'm all for folks assessing their spending, figuring out what moves the needle for them. And in the areas where it's not to, to be able to cut back ruthlessly, man. And it's hard not to judge other people's spending. But like I love it when they profile people because it gives you an insight into how it is that people are spending their money. And there's like a. They talk about a lady, she's like, yeah, we've had to cut back on our dog's toy subscription.

[B]

Didn't know that was a thing.

[A]

And I'm not gonna hate on the pets, you know, I don't even know if people know that I used to have a Great Dane way back in the day and that Great Dane ate a lot of food. I'm all for pets, but a toy subscription, where like toys are getting delivered to this house on the reg for the pet. It just seems so insane, man.

[B]

Well, I think this article too, it was highlighting people who are going like kind of super hard in the frugal direction almost to like an insane degree that most people would not do. And I feel two ways about that. Because in one way I'm like, I mean I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna water down my soap. That's probably one step too far or cut open my toothpaste tube. But I think in the other vein, when you're paying that close attention to the resources that you're using and how much you're spending on even everyday basics and necessities, you're just going to make a lot more progress on the money goals that you have. So I'd be curious to know from how to money listeners like how far they're willing to go in the frugal direction.

[A]

The most extreme thing baffle me.

[B]

Send me, send us an email how to [e-mail], let us know how frugal you're getting. Because yeah, I think in some ways I'm like, yeah, it's a little weird, it's a little off putting. I'm not one of those super couponer types. But I do think some people really get into it and they can save a lot of money. And then you know what? It allows them to spend money in the ways that they care about while they're still able to save and invest. And the other people out there are just lamenting, why does it cost so much to eat out now while they're still eating out every day? They're not really questioning their choices.

[A]

Yeah, you got to question that. So while we're talking about soap, you know the real way to save when it comes to clothes detergent is to make your own. Have Ihave I told you that we do that. So this is an effort that was spearheaded not by me, but by my wife because she was so sick of. Because it's really expensive when you buy like this, even the big ones from Costco, it costs a lot of money and you just, it's like what, 40.

[B]

Cents a load or 30?

[A]

I don't know. She felt that we were ripping through those so like too quickly. So now I don't know exactly what I'll have to ask her over the weekend. But like you, it's borax. It's like washing soda. You put like a drop of whatever essential oils you want. And we've been doing that for like months now. I will ask her and see what the actual breakdown is per load. But she's like, oh, according to her, we're saving a ton of money by making our own clothes detergent.

[B]

You gotta share this kind of stuff with the world.

[A]

That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing.

[B]

Let us know the recipe.

[A]

Yeah, we'll post it or something.

[B]

Yeah, we'll post it. All right. Speaking of doing chores, Matt, what about paying a robot to do your chores? How would you feel about that?

[A]

You want to talk about the Neo?

[B]

Yeah. So this one is interesting.

[A]

This is insane.

[B]

This is, like. I don't know. I'm not really necessarily interested in having a robot in my home, but I think it's probably going to become more common in the coming years. Not just because of the price tag, right? 20. 20 grand. So much this robot costs. Or I think you can pay, like, five or six hundred bucks a month to lease it.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Yeah. But it's also the dystopian vibes. Like, can't you imagine treating that robot, telling it to do all the chores, and then it just being, like, super pissed that you treated it like Cinderella choking you out in your sleep or something like that? That's the. That's the image I have in my head.

[A]

I'm not worried about it, but it's just. It does feel so far removed that it just is dumb.

[B]

Yeah. You know, the Wall Street Journal tech writer had spent a day with this robot, and it couldn't do anything. Like, it fumbled every task.

[A]

So stupid.

[B]

This is.

[A]

I don't get it.

[B]

It's ridiculous.

[A]

I couldn't be any less interested in getting something like that. Like, I couldn't. We did Roomba, like, the little robot vacuum and even that. And granted, we had an older version of that thing, but even that struggled at times to do a very specific task that it was very much created to do.

[B]

I've been hoping that the robot lawnmowers would get.

[A]

Those are good, evidently.

[B]

Are they okay? Because it seems like that would save a ton of money and time. Like, that seems like a great spot for a robot, but inside my house, doing my dishes and, like, I don't know, tending to my children, just getting.

[A]

In the way, like, no, no, here's the problem. So, yes, the fact that it costs so much money is ridiculous, but the whole equation needs to be reversed. They, like, they need to pay me to be able to test drive this thing in my own house because I feel like they are now currently in the game of acquiring and gathering data. This is why Tesla is so great, right? Not only were they able to create a successful EV company, but now they've got these driving robots essentially, like, all across the country gathering data for Tesla and they use that data. I mean think about the amount of video data and experience that they have on in their servers and the ability to then iterate using that data on future products to be able to make them even more and more seamless. Like that is the model not this clunky robot that the user had asked to crack open a walnut and it couldn't do it or something like that?

[B]

Yeah, well in early adopters always pay too much and get an inferior product. And if you just wait, if you wait a few years and you really want one of those robots to do your chores for you, I guarantee you it's going to cost a heck of a lot less money and it's going to be so much better than it currently is. So maybe just don't opt for the first gen.

[A]

Totally agree, Joel. Let's talk about advertisements and this has given the caveat that our show is of course ad supported. So you know, we'll discuss the story with that acknowledgement. But advertisements, ads, they're popping up in places that you wouldn't have found them in the past. How do you say so Ted, he writes a substack.

[B]

Joya, I believe is, is it Joy?

[A]

I always, always. I see.

[B]

It's a weird G. I always want.

[A]

To say Geo because I always read his stuff but I never hear his name being said.

[B]

But all right, he's got one of the best substacks out there.

[A]

He's really smart, really thoughtful. But he, he wrote about this recently. Ads, they're popping up on the screen of your car. This is on Jeep specifically there, it's highlighting the extended warranty.

[B]

Well, those warranties are thousands and thousands of dollars.

[A]

They're so expensive they're hardly ever worth it. But also Samsung has these really expensive fridges now where ads are popping up there. So you're dropping $3,500 and then you've got it displaying ads to you because.

[B]

You got a screen on your fridge because you thought it was cool and now it's just serving you ads all the time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think this is an argument for going low tech, writing things down on a sheet of paper maybe instead of having the, I don't know, the day's agenda projected onto the front of your, your fancy fridge. And this is, no, this is not a knock against Samsung. I think they're a fantastic company. We've got a lot of Samsung products. But I will not be myself paying for that really fancy Samsung fridge.

[B]

And I think the problem, the rub is when you pay full Price for something and it still comes with ads. I don't mind having the trade off.

[A]

Like the streaming services, right? Yeah. Like you pay more for something so you don't have to see the ads. Right. And this is like.

[B]

Yeah. And I love that.

[A]

The opposite.

[B]

Hey, there's that trade off and you have to decide for yourself. It makes me think of you. Remember when we talked about telly, which was this 55 inch television with like ads at the bottom. I signed up for it. They never sent me one. I don't know what happened to the company at this point, but that I was willing. That's like an informed trade off where you're like you're giving me the TV for free and yes, I'm subjecting myself to more ads because of it. But. But I didn't pay. I'd be really upset if I paid full price for a nice TV and then they start popping up. Ads while I'm not watching something like that would be incredibly frustrating. But if they're going to give me the TV for free and say hey, ads are going to be on whenever you're not watching your show, I think I would be far more okay with that. That'd be kosher to me.

[A]

You're making that informed decision.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. And like we just end up paying with our attention so much of the time now when these endless ads are served our way when it comes to social media, something. Estimates show that 4 in 10 posts are now ads. Which makes me question why we still use these services. Matt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you're thumbing through, scrolling through Facebook or Instagram. Yeah. Maybe you see a little bit of like your friends content but so much of it is like influencers you don't actually care about or it's ads that you are not thrilled to see something. It feels like half of the content isn't the content you actually came there for.

[A]

I totally agree. And do you want to know a solution for that? Aside from just completely. Oh man, I totally saw. This is the kind of stuff that's fed to me. This guy created like this five pound phone case. It's basically like a weight that you stick your phone in and it makes it look like the giant Zach from Saved by the Bell phone essentially, except for your iPhone. So that's one way you can do it. Another. Well, specifically on Instagram. So I've basically been off of it for a solid year and I think I've been much happier because of that. But I've been on there recently helping Kate cause she's launching some ceramic arts stuff on there. And we've been talking more about social media, and I came across the same thing. I was like, oh, my gosh. I'm scrolling through my feed. I'm like, I don't follow this person. Why is this showing up? Here's another ad. Here's another sponsored post. You wanna know the secret?

[B]

What?

[A]

This is gonna be great for everyone out there who is on Instagram. Go to the top of your app where it says Instagram, right? It's like written in the script at the top middle of your screen. Tap it and it'll drop down and you can change it to your followers, like, who it is that you are following. I'm sorry, who you're following. And it'll change the feed to just those actual folks. No ads, no suggested posts. Does this seem illegal? And like, I even had.

[B]

It doesn't seem illegal. I just shocks me.

[A]

Why would that be there? Yeah, because no one touches that, I guess. I don't know. It's crazy. Like, it's. It's something like it's either your. Your starred or favorite posts or people or something like that. But then it's literally just also one of the other options is following. So only the people that you're following.

[B]

They don't serve ads.

[A]

I literally did this last night. That's why I was excited to share it, because I was looking into it, because I was getting so fed up with why I was. I'm like, is there a way to see less of this other crap? And that's evidently a way that you can do it. Now that I've liked the system, spoken it into the universe, I'm afraid that it's going to be disappearing soon. But for all the How To Money listeners out there for the time being, try it out.

[B]

There you go. You're welcome. All right, Matt, that's going to do it. For this episode of the how to Money podcast, I think we should always refer to ourselves, don't we? The how to Money podcast.

[A]

Should we say our actual corporation name and how we file our taxes and what state we're incorporated?

[B]

All right. But we hope you found this helpful. You can find links to some of the stories that we mentioned on this episode up on our [e-mail] that's right. Tons of other resources up there for you as well. But until next time, buddy. Best friends out.

[A]

Best friends out.

[B]

No ads.

[A]

Dude, that's crazy.

[B]

That is crazy.

[A]

Boom. I just went through my whole feed from the past 24 hours.

[B]

It's amazing. It's not that bad.

[A]

Then it is a workaround because you have to do a couple additional steps. But I'm guessing. I'm guessing that most people aren't taking those additional steps to avoid it. Right.

[B]

And I think that'd be more widely known, though.

[A]

I don't know. I've never heard anybody talk about it, but did some crazy. Hey, it's Matt. Joel's also here. And we are fired up because we are back in another charity challenge. If you've been with us for a while, you might remember the last time Joel and I, we went head to head, I may have come out on top.

[B]

Don't rub it in. All right, you did win. I'll give you that. But this year, we're teaming up in Daffy's Voices for Good charity Challenge, competing with other podcasters to see who can raise the most for charity.

[A]

Yeah, for me, that means supporting GiveWell's top global health charities like malaria nets and vitamin A supplements that save lives for just a few bucks.

[B]

And I've chosen fire, which defends free speech, undue medical debt to wipe out medical bills for families, and the Hope Effect, which is changing the way the world cares for orphans.

[A]

And the best part, we are matching donations so every dollar you give gets doubled. And if you donate by December 2nd, you'll be entered to win a trip for two to the 2026 iHeartradio Music Festival in Vegas. So head to daffy.org voicesforgood find our campaign and donate. That's daffy.org voicesforGood Limu Imu and Doug. Here we have the Limu Emu in.

[B]

Its natural hab, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[A]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[B]

Cut the camera.

[A]

They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty Liberty, Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[C]

Hi, I'm Frances Fry. And I'm Anne Morris. And we are the hosts of a new TED podcast called Fixable. We've helped leaders at some of the world's most competitive companies solve all kinds of problems. On our show, we'll pull back the curtain and give you the type of honest, unfiltered advice we usually reserve for top executives. Maybe you have a co worker with boundary issues or you want to know how to inspire and motivate your team. No problem is too big or too small. Give us a call and we'll help you solve the problems you're stuck on, find fixable wherever you listen to podcasts. This is an I heart podcast.