Friday Flight - Space Stocks, Delaying Debt, & Home Insurance Hardships #1149

Summary

How to Money: Friday Flight – Space Stocks, Delaying Debt, & Home Insurance Hardships

Episode #1149 – June 5, 2026 | Hosts: Joel & Matt
iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

This week’s Friday Flight covers the latest personal finance headlines, focusing on three major themes: the hype around space stocks and novel ETFs, the complicated calculus of debt payoff versus investing, and the growing headaches surrounding home insurance. Joel and Matt deliver their signature blend of banter and practical advice, always prioritizing down-to-earth, actionable money wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Sports, Frugality, and Money Mindsets

[01:53–05:57]

• Sports Event Hacks:

  • Fans bringing elaborate meals in gallon bags to dodge expensive stadium concessions.
  • Joel shares nostalgia about sneaking in homemade hot dogs and using stadium condiments for free:

    “You grill up your hot dogs, wrap ’em in foil, and then you hit the free stuff at the stadium—ketchup, mustard, relish. So clutch.” – Joel [03:44]

• The Value of Experience vs. Money:

  • Discussion about Knicks finals tickets selling for up to $30,000, weighing the trade-off between selling tickets for profit and attending a potentially once-in-a-lifetime sports event.

    “At that price, I think I sell … you’d have to be such a die-hard fan.” – Matt [04:40]

  • Most long-term ticket holders likely have the financial means to do both.

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2. Investing: Stock Exposure, Novelty ETFs, and Space Stocks

[05:57–15:26]

• Optimal Stock Allocation:

  • Highlighting Yale professor James Choi’s new formula for stock exposure.
  • Conventional wisdom falls short: Most people should be more equity-heavy, especially in their younger, wealth-building years.

    “Being more equity heavy is crucial, particularly in those earliest years of wealth building.” – Joel [07:03]

  • Caution against “consumption smoothing”—the idea that you can wait to save until you earn more later.

    “That’s just not how it works, man. If you don’t form the habit early, most folks won’t suddenly ramp up their saving.” – Matt [09:56]

• Rise of Weird, Expensive ETFs:

  • There are now more ETFs than individual stocks.
  • Many new ETFs are actively managed, niche, or “novelty” (e.g., UFO ETF), with much higher fees (0.7% avg.) compared to plain vanilla options like VOO.

    “On average, the ETF loads were around 0.7%—quite a bit higher than, you know, .03, which is VOO.” – Joel [11:11]

  • One-third of new investment money is funneling into these expensive, trendy ETFs.

    “We talk about if you want to get freaky with some of your investments, that’s fine. But no more than 5% of your overall portfolio.” – Matt [11:54]

• SpaceX IPO & the IPO Craze:

  • Growing buzz around SpaceX’s upcoming IPO (ticker: SPCX); Matt and Joel urge skepticism.

    “SpaceX is losing billions a year… You’re betting on Elon Musk and on Mars being the next frontier… Call me skeptical.” – Joel [14:15]

  • Advice: Don’t chase IPOs on day one; prices often dip after the initial hype.

    “If you’re really keen to own these stocks, history shows that patience is likely to get you a better entry price.” – Joel [15:18]

• AI-Driven Investing On Robinhood:

  • Robinhood now lets AI agents trade on behalf of users.
  • Concerns: Encourages more trading (not investing), leads to more taxes and potential mistakes.

    “If you’re handing over the keys to your portfolio … it’s just a completely different game.” – Matt [15:56] “Am I doing that? Absolutely not.” – Matt [17:50]

  • Devil’s advocate: There might be a first-mover advantage, but Joel and Matt remain highly skeptical.

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3. Debt Payoff vs. Investing:

[18:35–21:18]

• New Vanguard Study:

  • Prepaying on low-interest debt (student loans, mortgages, car notes) instead of taking a full 401(k) match could cost $120,000 at retirement.

    “In the long term, prepaying a debt for 10 years while failing to get the full benefit of a match… could lead to an estimated $120,000 less at retirement.” – Joel [19:16]

  • Key: Never miss a retirement match, even if it means holding onto some low-interest debt.

• Rising Interest Rates:

  • Treasury yields up means auto, mortgage, and other variable rate debts are getting costlier.
  • Watch out for adjustable-rate debts, especially HELOCs, and budget for possible payment increases.

• Credit Card Delinquency:

  • Americans falling behind on credit card payments at rates approaching great recession levels.

    “It’s, we’re kind of ticking up into great recession levels of people not being able to pay their credit card bill on time and in full.” – Joel [22:53]

  • Zero tolerance policy for credit card debt: “It’s like gaining weight; it doesn’t happen overnight. Slow and steady, it really is.” – Matt [24:14]

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4. Social Media ‘Finfluencers’: Beware!

[27:52–32:28]

• Financial Times Headline:

  “Nine in ten financial influencers’ posts offer low quality advice.”

  • Social media is rife with misleading and scammy money advice, but 40% of people turn to it for financial guidance.

    “Ninety percent of the finfluencer content is crap according to this study.” – Joel [28:48]

  • Matt and Joel stress being cautious, double-checking advice, and recognizing the limitations of broadcasting financial tips online.
  • “There’s no magic pill to take. It just takes a whole lot of hard work. It takes spending less than you make, investing the rest…” – Matt [31:20]

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5. Homeowners Insurance: More Expensive, Less Helpful

[32:28–38:47]

• Claim Denials Rising:

  • More claims than ever are closed without payment; up to 45% now.
  • Especially strict on roof claims—insurers now push repairs (not replacements), and are more aggressively checking claims.
  • Some claims closed because they fall below the deductible or are for things not covered (e.g., flood damage without a flood policy).

• What’s a Consumer to Do?

  • Advice: Raise your deductible, self-insure more (bigger emergency fund), only make claims when absolutely necessary.
  • Frequent claims make it harder to find new insurers and raise long-term costs.

    “The less you claim and the more you self-insure, the better off you are in terms of saving money and being able to shop around.” – Joel [36:29]

• Choosing Insurance Companies:

  • Don’t just shop on price. Look for those with strong claim satisfaction—USAA and Amica are consistently top-rated.

    “…it might be worth paying a bit more to do business with an insurance company that actually takes care of their customers.” – Matt [37:27]

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6. Housing Market Lock-In

[38:47–41:19]

• Capital Gains Lock-In Effect:

  • Many older homeowners stay put to avoid the 15% capital gains tax on profits above $500k due to long-term home appreciation.

    “If they keep their home and let their heir inherit, that person gets a stepped-up basis and avoids the tax.” – Joel [40:33]

  • Combined with low mortgage rates, this “lock-in” effect restricts inventory, raising home prices.

• Policy Solutions?:

  • Joel suggests increasing the tax-free home sale threshold (currently $250k/$500k) could help, but Matt points out this mainly benefits already-wealthy homeowners.

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Memorable Quotes & Fun Moments

• Frugal Stadium Hacks:

  “Gallon Ziploc full of spaghetti and meatballs—probably the most calorically dense thing you could sneak past security.” – Matt [02:28]

• Warning on Trendy Investments:

  “If the novelty gives you outsized returns, you’re excited about it, right? But it’s really just investment junk food.” – Matt [12:17]

• IPO Hype Skepticism:

  “If you’re really keen to own these stocks, history shows patience gets you a better entry price.” – Joel [15:18]

• AI Investing Hesitation:

  “Am I doing that? Absolutely not.” – Matt [17:50]

• Debt Creep Metaphor:

  “It’s not like you grow a gut overnight—it’s slow, and then you look up and it’s a problem.” – Joel [24:09]

• On Home Insurance Claims:

  “The more claims you make, the more you’re stuck with your carrier—nobody else wants to write you a policy.” – Joel [36:34]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Frugal Stadium Food & Ticket Values: 01:53–05:57
• Portfolio Stock Exposure & Rules of Thumb: 06:23–09:55
• Weird ETFs & IPO FOMO: 10:06–15:26
• AI Robo-investing Caution: 15:26–18:29
• Debt Payoff vs. Investing: 18:35–21:18
• Rising Credit Card Delinquencies: 21:42–24:14
• Finfluencers: Advice to Avoid: 27:52–32:28
• Home Insurance Hardships: 32:28–38:47
• Housing Lock-In & Tax Effects: 38:47–41:19

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Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Conversational, friendly, honest, with a healthy skepticism toward financial fads.
• Takeaways:
  • Stick with broad, time-tested investing strategies, avoid jumping on every hype train.
  • Don’t overpay or over-prioritize low-interest debt at the expense of retirement matching.
  • Be extremely cautious about where you get financial advice online.
  • In a world of rising insurance (and housing) costs, plan to self-insure more and only claim when necessary.

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Listen to the full episode for more actionable tips, laughs, and the latest headlines that matter for your money!

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Best friends out.

Transcript

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[Joel]

Welcome to how to money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

And I am Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're talking space stocks, delaying debt and home insurance hardships.

[Matt]

That's right, buddy. It's Friday, which means it's time for the Friday flight where we cover the headlines, the stories that pertain to your personal finances the most. And you've got a baseball note here.

[Joel]

Okay, so I wanted two sports things I wanted to mention.

[Matt]

Okay?

[Joel]

One, some really creative fans are bringing. They're testing the limits of the one gallon bag policy. Did you see that?

[Matt]

I was curious if you're going to talk about that.

[Joel]

Yes, bringing like the spaghetti meals inside of their gallon. And, and it's, you know, because the rule is it's kind of like whatever you can fit in that gallon bag you can bring in.

[Matt]

People are like, there any more dense, calorically rich food than an entire gallon bag? Gallon Ziploc full of spaghetti and meatballs?

[Joel]

Probably not. You figure something out.

[Matt]

You know what, if Ziplock was smart, they would completely pounce on this and switch up whatever creative that they had lined up in the coming year and just be like, you know?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Like I just want to see a picture of an upside down bag, gallon bag of spaghetti. Because that would resonate with folks.

[Joel]

When you think about how expensive it is to get into a professional sporting event these days, this is obvious. This is like a clear and obvious way to save money. Like, it makes it far more expensive if you buy the concessions along with the ticket to get in. I think even just like the cheap seats at our major league baseball stadium are like 35 bucks or something these days. A far cry from where they used to be when I attended a bunch of games like 15 or 20 years ago.

[Matt]

Okay. So I said, though, well, because I thought we had of course, share how we would bring in our own hot dogs back in the day. It's been a minute since we shared that. But it takes me back, man. The ability for us to ride our bikes to the Ted, watch the Braves play, and we would grill up our hot dogs ahead of time, wrap them in aluminum foil. Wrap them up in foil. And no need to show up with any ketchup or mustard. Why? Because ketchup and mustard and relish and onions and everything else is free at the stadium.

[Joel]

So clutch.

[Matt]

This is a total frugal, cheap kind of moment where it's just like, I don't know, was that kind of a cheap move to use the concessions, to use the condiments? I'm sorry. At the concessions there at the braise. I don't know, but we totally did. It was glorious.

[Joel]

Yeah. Okay, one. One more sports note. And I'm curious what you would do in this. The. The Knicks are in the finals right now against the San Antonio spurs in the NBA.

[Matt]

I've heard that.

[Joel]

And these tickets are going for insane amounts of money. Like I haven't watched any of this series, but I watched some of the Hawks and the Knicks and the Knicks just dominated us.

[Matt]

But the tickets, the Knicks, I think

[Joel]

some of them are going for like, you know, 20, $30,000 a seat. For real, like for some of these finals.

[Matt]

Assuming courtside.

[Joel]

Yeah. Close to like the really nice each. And some of these season ticket holders have this conundrum where they're. They're like, I could pay for a year of my kids college or I

[Matt]

could go see the Knicks in the finals for the first time in how many decades?

[Joel]

For a long time. Yeah.

[Matt]

It's been a minute.

[Joel]

What do you do?

[Matt]

Oh, I think I sell.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I mean, for that much money, gosh, you would have to be such a die hard fan. And, and here's the thing. If you've held on to Nick's season

[Joel]

tickets, deep chalamet pockets, that's one thing. Exactly.

[Matt]

Like if you've been doing that for decades a you are either. Well, no. Multiple things are true at once. You've got the money and so the money that you know 20k is less important to you. What's important to you is the experience and you get to a stage in life. And I'm going to say that Knicks season ticket holders probably are at that point to where you're not really. Maybe you're batting an eyelash.

[Joel]

You don't have to choose either. Or attending the game or paying for college.

[Matt]

Yeah, exactly. It's probably not that difficult of a decision for them.

[Joel]

So I just found that to be

[Matt]

interesting that those a lot of money

[Joel]

tickets are going for that much saving money.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

It's crazy. But yeah, if you did sell them, I wouldn't blame you. But you're right, like most of those people, they probably can do both and, and not worry about the cost. Even though you're tempted to sell when you see ticket prices soaring that high.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

But then you just realize, actually I got a real good deal because I'm a season ticket holder and instead of like, yeah, getting the money money signs in your eyes just kind of go enjoy the game.

[Matt]

Enjoying it. But. But would you be able to enjoy it the entire time knowing that what the trade off is nice to say, like, oh, I can go back home. I would enjoy this in the comfort of my.

[Joel]

I would sell it because I don't feel like I've got, you know, New York Nick, season ticket level, net worth. Right. So yeah, but like if I did, then then I might. Right, right, right. Just depends. But I get it. All right, let's move on. Matt, let's get to the stories we found interesting this week. We're going to talk about space stocks in just a second. But I found this interesting when you were asking yourself maybe how much stock exposure you should have in your portfolio.

[Matt]

Classic investing conundrum. Another one is a question. Another one.

[Joel]

It's a question. And so much depends on a few different rules of thumb that people might throw out there over the years. There's the 100 minus your age. That's how much percentage you should own in stocks. There's just the classic 60, 40 portfolio choice that some people have been steered to and not incorrectly depending on your age at different times. Target date funds. Right. Those are kind of naturally shifting your stock exposure over the decades to make it more in line with what your likely risk tolerance should be. But in all those instances, Matt, in every single one of those rules of thumb, it turns out that the, the average person doesn't have enough stock exposure. I would say the average person, some people probably have too much, but most people don't have enough, according to some recent findings. And James Choi of Yale University, he just created a formula to help people figure out how much stock exposure they should have as an individual. He created this Google Sheets will link to it in the show notes. You can use it, you can actually plug in your information and kind of figure out what makes the most sense for you. But it finds what he found was that conventional wisdom and the average person's actions tend to lead to inferior results. And so being more equity heavy is crucial, particularly in those earliest years of wealth building. And the more work years in particular you have ahead of you, the more stock heavy you should be. But his formula also takes into account risk tolerance, nest egg size, and it's just, it's a worthy exercise to go through, I think, especially for people who are prone to overthinking things. You might find that like, you're like, oh, should I be like 15%? Bonds should be like 85%? I don't know, like I'm trying to figure out and dial it in perfectly. You might find one, that you're overthinking it, but two, that you should have more stock exposure than you might think.

[Matt]

That's true, certainly compared to conventional advice. We need more stocks in our portfolios by the. This is the same James Choi who came out with the. That consumption smoothing model a couple, a few years ago, which I'm going to say I did not like that.

[Joel]

Didn't like that either because he was

[Matt]

like, yeah, he's essentially saying like the whole premise of that was, hey, you're not earning a ton in your younger years, so you shouldn't be saving a ton of money. You are actually spending much more money in your younger years. Then as you ramp up, you know, you're ramping up your career, your income's ramping up. Those are the years where you're really going to sock away and save that money. And but what you're assuming there is that you can turn off the consumption sort of the hedonic treadmill, essentially, right? Like you're essentially putting yourself on this path and saying, well, at some point we're not going to be living quite as lavishly or we're going to hit pause. That's just not how it works, man. I think about how Kate and I have been able to grow our net worth over the years. And it came down to not exposing ourselves to some of those things at a young age and then holding it. Right. It's the white coat investor. It's living like an intern or a resident as opposed to immediately jumping into that consumption lifestyle. And so that's something I did not like this.

[Joel]

I agree with you.

[Matt]

I do like this. I do like. And I really like where his head's at. And I appreciate that there's somebody smart who's taking a, I don't know, a more eggheady approach to personal finance.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Because we tend to shoot from the hip.

[Joel]

Well, and even in kind of some of what he was, he was talking about in the consumption smoothing, it was like, no, it's okay to take on more debt when you're. I know.

[Matt]

Yes. It was even like he was even. Yeah, he was debt friendly. He was saying, hey, it's, it's to be expected.

[Joel]

And I understand where he was coming from. Right. Like, it makes that like, oh, you're going to. But this is also. It's growing your income massively and then ramping your savings rate up to 20, 25% to make up for the years that you lost. Trying to.

[Matt]

There's a lot of assumptions trying to

[Joel]

institute a habit when you didn't form a habit to begin with for you just like didn't invest for 10, 15 years. That's. That's just unwise in my opinion. And most people aren't going to be able to make that shift.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But this I can totally get behind. Something else I can't get behind are all the crazy ETFs that are out there. Jo, have we actually talked about how. So there's more ETFs now than individual stocks, which kind of makes sense because you think about, if you think about it like food, like, think about the individual stocks, like ingredients. I guess there's like an infinite number of ingredients, too. But just think about all the different combinations of ingredients to make different things. That's kind of how I view ETFs. There's like an infinite number of different recipes out there. That's how I sort of view ETFs. And there are new ones launching every minute now, it seems. But as a bigger segment of the population is investing, which is a good thing, many folks out there have either not heard about index funds or they're still hoping to be able to outperform the market overall by picking some of these special ETFs right. Like they're looking at picking these baskets of stocks that are going to rise faster than the overall stock market. And of course, the weirder the fund, the higher the fees. This story saw that on average the ETF loads were around 0.7%, quite a

[Joel]

bit higher than, you know, 03, which is VU.

[Matt]

And not only that, I said, you know, the weirder the fund. Oh yeah, they get weird. There's a UFO etf. Not even kidding there, there's, there's one that gives bitcoin returns, but it's actually only while the market is closed. And so it holds us treasuries otherwise. So I'm not exactly how sure some of these are working, but Jason is why he wrote this, this piece and he liked them to high price investment junk food, which is 100%. It's the best way to describe it. And a third of new money that's flowing into the market are going directly into these expensive, actively managed ETFs, which I don't like seeing that much money. Dude. Like, what do we talk about? We talk about if you want to get freaky with some of your investments, you want to, you know, get a little experimental, that's totally fine. But no more than 5% of your overall portfolio. The fact that a third 33% of new money are, you know, flowing into these shiny or, you know, novelty. That's what it is, it's novelty. Right? Like the I love the junk food analogy makes me think of like.

[Joel]

But if the novelty gives you outsized returns, you're excited about it, right?

[Matt]

Here's a segue for you. It makes me think about astronaut ice cream. Or was it space ice cream? Right. You're paying so much money for this novelty. It's just this fun thing. The kids want it. When you go to the science museum.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You're like, you're going to hate it. It tastes awful. But we're still drawn to it anyway

[Joel]

because it's, because it's fun, it's unique. But it turns out it's not.

[Matt]

Yeah, that was the space docs.

[Joel]

Okay, let's, let's, let's get into that then. So space stocks are obviously.

[Matt]

We gotta talk about SpaceX.

[Joel]

We're getting a lot of, they're getting a lot of attention right now. SpaceX is obviously, the IPO is coming down the pike. Anybody who's paying attention at all has seen the news. SPCX is going to be the ticker symbol for SpaceX map. And I think a lot of people see this Matt. And they're like, gosh, I got to get in on that opportunity, right? It's like maybe, maybe it's like buying Amazon in its infancy, except for not quite, because there's, I think, a few things. One, companies are staying private for longer, trying to increase valuation. You're not buying maybe as early on in the process as you might think. The only people who have had access to investing in SpaceX are private investors investing. And the other thing, Matt, we have to mention is SpaceX is losing billions of dollars a year with this valuation. A lot of money of like, what, 1.5, something close to 2 trillion potentially. When I forget what the exact IPO offering price is going to be. You're betting on Elon Musk here, but you're also betting that Mars is going to be the next frontier if you're investing in SpaceX stock directly. I think Elon's very smart, but call me skeptical on this one, Matt. I just, I have no desire to go to Mars. I don't know that most humans do, but that's, I mean, that's in the eye of the beholder. You have to make that choice, whether you think that's an important or likely achievement. Big AI companies, right? Anthropic. They're planning IPOs for later this year, too, I think ChatGPT as well, which is, that's the. What's the. What's ChatGPT's Altman. Yeah, but what's, what's the name of the company? Open AI. That's right, Open AI. We're just going to see massive valuations and investors itching to get in on some of these IPOs. But I'll say this, even if you do want to invest in some of those companies, that's. That's okay, right? If you want to use your 5% to invest in some of these, totally fine. But with any ipo, there's often insufficient data to know whether the debut price makes sense or not.

[Matt]

That's true, but then you're missing out on all the fun.

[Joel]

It is true.

[Matt]

That's why you're like anybody showing up. It's all about the hype. It's all about like being able to say that you own a little piece of the company. And.

[Joel]

But if you look, I don't think

[Matt]

people who are looking at buying a little bit of space specifics.

[Joel]

But do you have to own, like,

[Matt]

super logically, do you have to own

[Joel]

it on day one? Because when you look at the historic, like, historical returns of IPOs, if you're

[Matt]

thinking they're going to go to the

[Joel]

moon, they just like crush on day one and then there's pretty quickly like a lull. Right?

[Matt]

That's true.

[Joel]

And so like yeah, retail investor Normie people, they pay the pumped up day one price and then in like the stock, like think about. I think the same thing happened with like Rivian and I like Rivian. I think it's a cool company. I'm like, I would like to invest in that, but I don't want to invest in inflated prices and like lose money as an investor. So if you're really keen to own these stocks, history shows that patience is likely to get you a better entry price.

[Matt]

That's true. On a related notes, we got to talk about AI, right? I mean every, it wouldn't be obligated so specifically, I'm sure folks who are expecting us to talk about this. Robinhood has just made it possible for AI agents to make trades on your behalf. It's just a brave new world out there. And while we think it's fine if you want to probe AI with questions, if you are looking to glean some information, if you want to get more informed, that's one thing.

[Joel]

Even then you have to tread lightly, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, well, and double check it for sure. But it's just a completely different game. And if you're handing over the keys to your portfolio essentially where it's just like, yeah, yeah, you go ahead and make those trades, you rebalance whenever you feel like it. AI agent which is only going to encourage obviously more trading, not better investing and more training comes with bigger or unexpected taxes. There's, I think there's going to be more mistakes and inferior returns I think are what we are most likely going to see. Although I will make a slightly devil's advocate play here and give an affirmative case for AI, which is that there might be like a first mover advantage here. Right. If you think back to like efficient market theory or hypothesis. If you all, if everyone, if the entire market has the same amount of information, then it's very, very hard to find like the little winners and losers. Right? Because why, because everyone has the same information so there isn't actually an inherent advantage. This. I could potentially see someone making the argument that, oh well, this is my, here's my chance to have information that maybe the entire market doesn't have. Right. And so if there are folks who are more comfortable with handing over the keys, I think what they might be convincing themselves of is that, well, here's my chance before like Imagine off in the future, and I bet this will likely be the case. Imagine every brokerage that's out there that has some sort of AI built into it. Well, that's. That feels like a period in time when we might revert back to that sort of efficient market, because technology at that point has found its way through the whole market, as opposed to right now, it being potentially with a single player, someone like. Like Robinhood, where they're building it into the.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Into the actual brokerage. I'm not at all condoning that. I'm not saying that this is something that people, like, people should do, but

[Joel]

you're just like, man, you really are.

[Matt]

I'm just trying to think like an AI Robinhood sort of meme stock investor.

[Joel]

And you have to be a risk on sort of investors like, to. To be able to take a. Take a gamble like this.

[Matt]

Am I doing that? Absolutely not.

[Joel]

I'm curious to see what it looks like in. In reality, because you're kind of working with this AI AI agent and feeding it prompts. Right. But then it's like, also making trades on your behalf. And I. I guess I'm just not willing to let AI do that for me. Like, I want to do that on my own and make buy and sell decisions. Like, maybe we're my finger on the mouse.

[Matt]

Maybe.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. Even when I sit down and do it, I'm like, I don't know. There's no distractions.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But, you know, like, anytime I'm investing, I'm making sure that, like, okay, is this. Am I doing everything right here? And maybe that's just the difference between someone like me and the AI Robinhood investors out there.

[Joel]

Maybe in 10 years, we'll look back and be like, gosh, we were just

[Matt]

like, maybe such Luddites. I'm willing to change my mind.

[Joel]

All right, let's talk about debt for a second. We talk about the downsides of paying off your mortgage early if you've got a really low rate. But what about prepaying on your student loan? That actually might not be a great idea either. So there's this new Vanguard study that found that paying student loans early can be a mistake. Like paying extra towards that student loan in an effort to get rid of it in a shorter time frame. Not just a student loan, but mortgages, car notes, too. So a great summation from the study. I would say it really goes along with the money, gears, and what we've kind of said for a long time. What they said was, in the long term, prepaying a debt for 10 years while failing to get the full benefit of a match during that time.

[Matt]

That's the catch.

[Joel]

Could lead to an estimated $120,000 less at retirement age.

[Matt]

Yep.

[Joel]

So this just goes back to kind of like threading the needle as you're in. Kind of how we formed the money gears, Matt. Like, paying off debt is a great goal. Focusing too hard on paying off low interest debt though, especially, especially if it means missing out on something huge like a 401k match is. It's just shortsighted and it'll ultimately cost you over the years in terms of building up your net worth and financial security. The, the early dollars you toss in, kind of going back to what we talked about earlier with consumption smoothing those early dollars still matter, especially if you're getting matching dollars. Oh yeah, right. They create the snowball that, that builds margin and builds financial. Builds you on the path towards financial independence. And even, even if it means paying down your debt less quickly, don't ever miss the match. Right?

[Matt]

Yeah. So the match is sort of like it's not just the snowball building and getting bigger. It's like an inordinate amount of snow that somebody else puts on. It's like you're sitting there packing the initial first snowball, right. And you've gotten like a snowball that's the size of a golf ball. But then your employer shows up and they're like, hey, hey, let me help you out with that. And then they slap some more snow on there and all of a sudden you've got like a baseball sized snowball. And then you're like, let's roll that down the hill.

[Joel]

Will Ferrell from ELF comes up, you know, and he's got, he's towed a bunch of snowballs with him.

[Matt]

That's what it's like. That's what it's like, folks. We're talking about debt. Treasury yields are up, which means debt products are getting more expensive. So inflation concerns are persisting. And with that in mind, investors, they want higher returns on government bonds, which means auto loans. It means mortgage interest rates. They're climbing. So borrowing money is getting more expensive. How long will it, will it be sticky? I don't know. What happens next? That largely depends on the timeline for peace out in the Middle East. But it's even more crucial for folks to be wary of especially new debt products. Just to know that the different variable rate debts out there, some we're talking about credit cards and helocs we know. Just keep in mind that These are

[Joel]

at risk of rate increases, especially those HELOCs. Matt, you're banking on kind of having that interest rate when you took out the loan. But that's not always the case. If that rate resets and rates are up, you're paying, you've got a higher payment, and you have to make sure you've budgeted for that potential increase in payment. Right? That's right. Americans are, by the way, falling behind on their credit card payments in higher numbers. It's not just that the headline, because

[Matt]

rates are ticking up and more expensive, they throw out their hands.

[Joel]

And I think most people usually refer to the headline amount of credit card debt that like cumulative for all Americans. And it is something like 1.2 to $5 trillion in credit card debt, which is bad. I think any credit card debt is bad, but it's maybe not as bad as it might seem when you look at just the headline number. Although it is disconcerting to me because I'm like, zero credit card debt all the way. Never, never have that. But the number of folks who can't keep up with their credit card payments is as delinquencies are rising, that, that is more concerning to me than even just the headline number. Like we're, it's, we're kind of ticking up into great recession levels of people not being able to pay their credit card bill on time and in full. This is just scary news. We're not anti credit card, but so many people use credit cards poorly. This is why I'm just like, any credit card debt at all, we should be completely allergic to it because anytime you're paying 20% or more these days, it's a bad thing. It's hamstringing your personal finances. It's continuing to dig you into a deeper debt hole. People interviewed in the article, in this article talked about credit card debt, like struggling with losing weight. Right. And how your weight gain and credit card debt, neither of them happen overnight. It's this slow trend kind of in the wrong direction for most people. You don't like, you don't put on a gut in like, yeah, you don't

[Matt]

gain 30 pounds overnight.

[Joel]

Yeah. This is one of those things where you see somebody three years down the line, you're like, oh, you kind of a gut now. Right. And it's just, it didn't happen in a day. And so I think this is true. Like they're both, they both kind of happen this slowly but surely. And then you find yourself in a position that's, that's pretty rough. And so if you've still got credit card debt, even a little, make a plan to pay it off. I just think messing with credit card. Using credit cards is fine. Messing with credit card debt is just, like, something to be avoided at all costs.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think we have, like, a zero tolerance kind of policy when it comes to that. Because it's not the fact that, oh, yeah, you're carrying that $500 balance that's not going to wreck your finances. Honestly, I don't even care. The amount of that you're paying in interest is so nominal. Right. But what happens next is that you are then a little more comfortably saying, well, let's. I can bump that up to $1,000. And then when you're at a thousand, you're thinking, well, it's not a big deal if it goes from 1,000 to 2,000. And then that's how you end up with a 15,000 or a $20,000 balance. That's what will end up wrecking your finances.

[Joel]

Right. Slowly growing your comfort level with something that, like, is really.

[Matt]

It's like the gaining weight thing truly is. It's really accurate because it's not like if you went from, you know, where you were before to, like, a snapshot three years into the future, will you be like, oh, my gosh, no. But it's the gradual shifting that takes place. You get more and more comfortable with it.

[Joel]

I mean, smoking one cigarette a day for 10 years or something like that. There's. It's still highly unlikely that you're going to have some sort of, like, terrible nefarious effect. Right. On your health.

[Matt]

I don't know.

[Joel]

Maybe it's not good, I think, but like. But I think probably the worst part of that is, is not just the one cigarette a day, but it's like, then you can talk yourself into two, and then you got yourself in a four.

[Brian]

Right.

[Joel]

And you just kind of like go down this path of, like, you should

[Matt]

say, like, one cigar a year. It's not that the one cigar, you're right.

[Joel]

Probably one a day is probably too much.

[Matt]

I was like, let me think of an example. It's not like having three drinks a day is gonna be bad.

[Joel]

Oh, no, I don't overdo it on any of that stuff.

[Matt]

Yeah, exactly. All right, we got more to get to. We're gonna talk about housing. We're gonna talk about how folks are using their insurance incorrectly. We'll get to all that more right after this. For business owners and entrepreneurs, there's a constant challenge getting things done. Fast or done well. Well, why not have both? That's why wix Harmony stands out. It is an AI website builder that helps to create a website quickly without compromising your vision. A fully functional site can be built for any business just by describing the idea of. Then you can choose to chat with AI or edit everything manually to get it exactly right.

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[Joel]

Let's get to the ludicrous headline of the week.

[Matt]

Let's do it.

[Joel]

This one comes from the Financial Times over there across the pond in Great Britain. And nine in ten, here's the, here's the headline. Nine in ten financial influencers posts offer low quality advice. Study finds. And I believe it.

[Matt]

So this, this post, even though I've not been on social media in quite a while, it feels more and more removed from like my daily rituals and routine, which makes me very happy.

[Joel]

I read about it more than engaging with it, which is like, you know. Yeah, exactly. Because I do think there's, you know, talking about smoking cigarettes. I think like the more we engage with social media, there's a lot of obviously like unhealthy things and we're seeing just more lawsuits waged against the social media companies for, for good reason.

[Matt]

Because a lot of people, well now everyone's shifted their sites over to the AI companies.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Joel's like, it's okay if you check your social media once every five minutes. It's not that big of a deal, guys.

[Joel]

Right? Don't worry about it, it's fine. It won't rot your brain. But, but 90% of the finfluencer content that you're going to encounter on social media is crap according to this study. Basically not just poorly done or a little off the mark, but misleading and scam filled. Yet 40% of folks turn to social media for financial guidance. So there's this intersection, Matt, of people who are saying, man, I'm trying to find some good people to follow so that I can learn about money like while I'm scrolling. That's like a healthy way to use social media, right? Well, maybe, but probably not just because of how many people are offering such bad advice. So there are really good people on TikTok and Instagram. I'll admit that there are some people who we're friends with who are doing a great job. People we respect a lot, but they're the exception, I think, to the rule, at least based on what we've seen and that's backed up by studies like this. So part of the problem is the medium itself. It doesn't allow for space for nuance on complex topics topics. And it attracts a certain kind of person oftentimes too. And you and I, we're not perfect. We make mistakes. We want to readily admit that. Double check like when we Say something and you're like, I don't know if Matt and Joel are right on that. Like, man, look it up. Like, and you might find that we're wrong and you can email us and be like, hey, guys, can you correct this? Because you were wrong. And sometimes we have to do that because we're not always right. But, like, knowing that, I think it's a good idea to just test what people are saying, whether it's on social media, whether it's listening to a podcast and just realizing whether someone is incorrect because of a mistake or because of, in a lot of cases, I think on social media, trying to sell you a product or trying to follow, you know, scam you out of your money.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Like, those are things you have to be really cautious about. And there's just more, I think, landmines in the social media space when it comes to money content than almost anywhere else.

[Matt]

That's true.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And like, I'm thinking about us and there's just something imperfect about broadcasting, which is essentially what social media is as you're, you know, an individual talking to a whole lot of people. Yeah. Like, it makes me think about how we take listener questions, which hopefully does offer help for, you know, the individual along with a broader takeaway though. Right. That being said, our conversations, our banter to that person is based on just their minute long question. We don't know enough about them or their situation to offer like actual surefire advice, you know, Notice I didn't say advice earlier either. Like what we talk, it's entertainment, what we do here on the show. We don't offer financial advice, Joel. We're legally obliged to say that. But it's also why we talk about, like, we talk about things at a higher level. Right. Like, we talk about principles, we talk about rules of thumb, we talk about just general money wisdom. And we do try to figure out ways to apply that on, you know, at an individual level. But we, yeah, it's really smart to use your specific filter to figure out and determine what's going to be useful, what's gonna be germane to where you are specifically in your financial journey. So, yeah, just be careful, especially though, to avoid the folks out there selling products that may not necessarily like it's. If it seems, yeah, there's a lot of solutions out there. Folks want solutions, they want the easy button. And a lot of times I think they believe, oh, if I just pay a little bit here, well, that's gonna get me on this program. And a lot of times there's no magic pill to take. It just takes a whole lot of hard work. It takes spending less than you make,

[Joel]

investing the rest, and finding a great financial influencer to follow just because of this ratio. 9 and 10 suck, right? Is kind of like finding a needle in a haystack. It's an uphill battle. You can and you can find great people on there. And if you want, email us and we'll be like, hey, no, this person's awesome. Follow this person. This person's great because there are those people out there. But then again, you're just like sorting through a pile of rubbish to find something worth keeping. Oftentimes when you're talking about trying to find somebody worth following on social media who's going to give you money advice, that's true. Let's talk about insurance, Matt. Not only has homeowners insurance become a lot more expensive, that's something we've talked about a fair amount on the show. People are also being turned down for claims far more frequently these days. So you as a consumer, you're forking over lots of money in premiums, more money than you're used to paying, and then you're not getting what you're paying for. If you're getting turned down when you file a claim, that's a frustrating position to be in. But this data is hard to come by. So the Wall Street Journal dug in to data from a bunch of individual insurance companies. They found that the biggest insurance companies are closing more claims than ever without making a payment. Over the past 10 years, it's gone up something like 10% from 35 to 45% of claims, somewhere along those lines. And this, this isn't just about roof claims. But, Matt, it does seem like that's what a lot of these are, right? That a lot of insurance companies are cracking down on people who are filing a claim, 20 to $50,000 roof replacement. That and the insurance company's like, we can just repair. That's like, it's like two little hail damage spots. Like, we can just repair that. We don't need to replace the whole roof. And so, yeah, these losses have mounted for insurance companies because of some of these claims. And they're just taking every claim, I think, more seriously than they did 10 or 15 years ago. We've talked about those kind of fly by night people who come along and they're like, hey, I can find something wrong with your roof and help you get a new roof. And the insurance companies have just kind of wised up to tell that how that's going down.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

It's also true that some claims get closed and then reopened. Some are closed because the claim was so small it didn't even rise to the level of the deductible. So it's not always the insurance company being a jerk.

[Matt]

It's like user error.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to submit.

[Matt]

You're doing the insurance wrong.

[Joel]

Yeah, I've got this $3,000 repair. I need you. And they're like, Your deductible is five grand, dude. Like, would you like to spend the 5,000?

[Matt]

Like that's not how it works.

[Joel]

That's not how it works. And then, and then also other claims like flooding, for instance, in the state of Florida, they're just not covered in the first place if you don't have a separate flood policy. So some people file a claim assuming they're going to get paid because they had a flood. And no, sorry, you have to have a separate policy for that. That's why that claim gets closed. Homeowners insurance though, is just another one of these areas where you have to be really careful as a consumer these days because there's just feels like there's a lot of out there that could get you.

[Matt]

Yeah. So what should you do if you find yourself in a situation like this? First of all, raise your deductible. And we would encourage folks to essentially self insure more. It means keeping more cash on hand, having a fatter emergency fund, and if your insurance is less likely to be helpful when you need it, well, just depend on it less by having more cash to directly pay for those minor repairs and then just make claims only when absolutely necessary. So for instance, let's say you've got a 5,000 deductible and you're like, well, that's going to cost $7,000. And so you're thinking about making a claim. Well, yeah, you might come out ahead a little bit in the short term, but this is a long term mistake because it's going to end up raising your premiums. It's going to. That's the kind of thing that's going to stay on your clue report, which follows you around regardless of which insurance provider you're with.

[Joel]

I think I talked about me shopping around recently and one of the agents I talked to was like, I have two claims, Matt, because of the tree and because of a flood that destroyed an H vac and just other things, other parts of the house. And he was like, ah, let's that that one claim's going to fall off your report. Here in a few months, let's reshop then. Because yeah, the more claims you make, the more you're kind of stuck with the carrier you're with because nobody else wants to write you a policy. So the less you claim and the more you self insure, the better off you are essentially in terms of saving money on your premiums but then also being able to shop around.

[Matt]

That's right. Well, and I think a lot of times folks think about shopping around as like the best way to be able to get their rates down. And it's true. Right. We talk about how your loyalty doesn't pay. You think that, oh, I've been with this insurer for however many years like you, there's an emotional attachment and you think, oh well, they should be treating me really well because I treat them so well because I continue to stay with them. But that's not how it works.

[Joel]

I pay them, I don't file claims, they should love me. And yet what they do is they do love you.

[Matt]

And they are also gonna, but they

[Joel]

don't prove it through lower rates.

[Matt]

They're continue to raise prices. And so you're, you might be thinking, well I need to shop around, find someone that's going to charge me less. And that's a great way to reduce how much you are paying. But don't just look at the bottom line of the dollar amount that you're paying. What I'm talking about here is customer service. Look to specifically how good how your insurer performs when it comes to paying claims and how satisfied their customers are. In Consumer Reports, man, it is still the best place to turn to when it comes to insurance company rankings. And I'm just saying it might be worth paying a bit more to do business with an insurance company that actually takes care of their customers and has a robust history of actually taking those claims and making sure that you are made whole.

[Joel]

And when you look at the Consumer Reports rankings consistently over the years, there are like two insurance companies that stand out, USAA and Amica as two of the best that, that customers love, they have a great interaction with. And it's interesting, in that Wall Street Journal article, USAA didn't come out looking awesome in terms of claims closed, but they responded to the Journal and they offered reasoning why closing claims have gone up. And that's a pretty good reason. It's like kind of some of the things that Bruce documented. And so you're like, okay, cool, they're

[Matt]

willing to meet the deductible amounts of

[Joel]

and so they're having the conversation.

[Matt]

There's information responding. Yeah.

[Joel]

Which I appreciate. And so USA, I think I would say is still probably high up on that list if you have access and a level of transparency. Yeah. But consider shopping around with a few of the more higher ranked companies in customer service because then if you do find yourself in a lurch, they're more likely to be helpful when you really need that insurance kick in.

[Matt]

That's right.

[Joel]

All right. The housing market, Matt, has also, it's been kind of fascinating and frustrating to watch in recent years. Soaring values for a lot of people mean outrageous costs for somebody else who hasn't bought a home yet but wanted to. And something that adds into that part of it is like people with a locked in low rate 30 year fixed mortgage, 2.75, they're staying put because why would I sell unless I absolutely have to? Which means there's less supply, keeps prices higher. But there's this other random factor that hasn't been discussed much that leads to people staying in their homes and just kind of less supply, which leads to higher prices, which is older Americans not selling homes they've owned for a long time because the tax implications they'd incur if they were to sell. It's likely, according to statistics, that millions more boomers would sell their home if not for the tax they owe. So if they bought their home 30 years ago and the value has increased substantially, capital gains taxes. Right. That 15% above the $500,000 threshold of gains, they're going to pay 15% on every dollar above that amount. And that's a real reason to stay put. Right. Let's say you're, you bought this house for 200 grand and it's worth 2 million. You know, you're talking about a ton of capital gains taxes. If you were to sell, if you just say put, you don't pay the tax. And so this is just another, another instance of kind of the home, home market not functioning as efficiently as it could. And plus, if they, if they keep their home and they let their heir inherit the home that that person inherits with a stepped up basis, which, which means the homes were 2 mil. Well, when they inherited, it's like they purchased it at 2 million. And if they were to sell it, then they don't pay any capital gains tax.

[Matt]

That's just a better way of unloading that property.

[Joel]

And that is what makes real estate and especially great investment from a generational wealth perspective. And so I think this is why. Yeah, it just, but it creates other incentives that that harm the housing market as a whole.

[Matt]

Yeah, that doesn't help out new buyers. They're like, well, great. I can tell that those boomers are still hanging out in that house over there because multiple reasons.

[Joel]

And we're also unlike other countries in terms of that don't have 30 year fixed rate mortgages. And because of that, I mean it's like both of those things combined just really do create like a lock in effect when rates are higher, leading to less supply, leading to just the housing market being. Being a little more quicksandy. And so.

[Matt]

Well, you said this, you said the supply and that's right. It always comes down to supplier demand. The demand is there. So how do we increase the supply to be able to provide for the demand that's there to keep rates or prices reasonable? That's what we need to do.

[Joel]

I have a feeling this is going to be like a policy change at some point because, well, I think that number has stayed put. The 250 for individuals, 500 for couples, tax free. When you sell your home. I think that's one of those things that's kind of stayed put for a long time. And if we tied that to inflation or if we increase that, did a one time increase on that amount, we might start to see some of those folks being like, okay, I'll sell my home now because it reduces my taxation when I sell.

[Matt]

Yeah, I get that. But I could also see folks saying that, well, that's there's enough breaks that we give folks who are incredibly wealthy. Right. Like you think about folks who hold the majority of wealth in the country

[Joel]

and older Americans too.

[Matt]

And it's older Americans and it's folks who have these, these paid for homes. And so there's a lot of folks who would say, well, that feels like not a progressive tax system, but a regressive tax system. You're giving even more benefit to folks who need it the least.

[Joel]

That's true.

[Matt]

But obviously I get your point though, which is that it would be able to hopefully provide a sort of boost in supply when it comes as far as houses on homes on the market.

[Joel]

Greater wheels a bit. Yeah, yeah, I get that. All right, that's going to do it for this Friday flight.

[Matt]

Yeah, boy.

[Joel]

And we're always appreciate you listening. We'll catch you back here on Monday with a fresh Ask HTM episode.

[Matt]

Hey, and we got through this whole episode without talking about the run that you and I went on this morning.

[Joel]

17 miles.

[Matt]

That's right.

[Joel]

We beasted it.

[Matt]

Yeah, it was hot out there.

[Joel]

It felt so good. It did.

[Matt]

It actually did.

[Joel]

It was fun. All right. Until next time. Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends out.

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[Joel]

Hey, Bowen. Is it just me or does it

[Bowen Yang / Matt Rogers]

feel like nothing is actually what it

[Matt]

says it is anymore?

[Bowen Yang / Matt Rogers]

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[Matt]

You get mystery nuggets. Exactly.

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[Matt]

Okay, that tracks.

[Bowen Yang / Matt Rogers]

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