Friday Flight - Student Loan Shakeup, Doom Spending, and the Mounting Mini-Stagcession #954

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Money
Episode: Friday Flight - Student Loan Shakeup, Doom Spending, and the Mounting Mini-Stagcession #954
Release Date: March 7, 2025
Host: Joel and Matt
Published by: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of How to Money, co-hosts Joel and Matt delve into pressing financial topics affecting everyday Americans. The discussion centers around student loan reforms, the phenomenon of "doom spending," and emerging economic concerns labeled as the "mini stagcession." The hosts aim to provide actionable insights and alleviate listener anxieties surrounding these financial challenges.

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1. Cultural Events and Mental Health

Prioritizing Cultural Activities

Joel shares his personal budgeting strategy of prioritizing cultural events to enhance his mental well-being. He refers to these activities as "cultural events," encompassing outings like concerts, plays, and museum visits.

• Joel (04:07): "Cultural events are underrated. Partaking in cultural events reduces your risk of depression by nearly half."

Mental Health Benefits

Joel cites a study indicating that engaging in cultural activities monthly can significantly lower the risk of depression, highlighting the importance of budgeting for these experiences.

• Joel (04:43): "If you do one outing every few months, it reduces your risk of depression by 32%. Prioritizing monthly can cut it by 48%."

Matt's Perspective

Matt emphasizes that while cultural events may not resonate with everyone, identifying enjoyable and socially engaging activities can foster better mental health and stronger community ties.

• Matt (07:12): "Relationships lead to the highest amounts of happiness and life satisfaction. Cultural events often involve being around others, which overlaps with these findings."

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2. Student Loan Shakeup

Current State of Student Loans

Joel and Matt discuss the evolving landscape of student loans, noting that total debt has ballooned to approximately $1.7 trillion. Despite higher educational costs, borrowers with degrees still earn more on average than high school graduates.

• Joel (10:00): "We've seen trends like income-based repayment programs become less accessible after recent court rulings, putting borrowers in limbo."

Policy Changes and Borrower Impact

The hosts highlight that recent court decisions have halted more generous repayment plans from the previous administration, leaving many borrowers uncertain about their repayment options.

• Matt (11:02): "Borrowers are left waiting to see what repayment plans will be available, causing significant stress and confusion."

Advice for Borrowers

Joel advises borrowers to continue making payments to avoid severe credit score drops, referencing a Journal report showing significant credit declines among those who paused payments.

• Joel (13:02): "If you're banking on safe plan payments, reconsider and plan for unexpected scenarios by possibly doubling your payments."

Future Considerations

The hosts stress the importance of minimizing student debt, especially for parents of future college students, given the uncertain repayment landscape.

• Matt (13:51): "Taking on less debt is more crucial than ever due to the unpredictability in repayment options."

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3. Automobile Reliability and Costs

Consumer Reports on New Cars

Matt references Consumer Reports' list of the best new cars for 2025, highlighting brands like Toyota and Subaru for their reliability and fuel efficiency.

• Matt (13:51): "Toyota and Subaru continue to lead in reliability and fuel economy metrics."

New vs. Used Cars

Joel and Matt discuss the financial implications of buying new versus used cars, emphasizing depreciation costs and the benefits of maintaining older, reliable vehicles.

• Joel (15:31): "Buying new isn't always the best financial move due to the significant depreciation in the first few years."

Maintenance and Longevity

Matt shares personal anecdotes about maintaining older vehicles to extend their lifespan, advocating for regular upkeep to avoid costly repairs.

• Matt (16:12): "Taking care of your car with small maintenance tasks can extend its life significantly."

Impact of Electric Vehicles (EVs)

The conversation touches on the rising costs associated with repairing modern cars, especially EVs, due to expensive parts like batteries.

• Joel (17:21): "Battery damage in EVs can lead to exorbitant repair costs, making insurance and maintenance more challenging."

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4. Doom Spending and Economic Uncertainty

Understanding Doom Spending

Doom spending, as defined in the episode, is the tendency to purchase more goods out of fear of future economic downturns or price increases due to impending tariffs.

• Joel (27:53): "Doom spending is buying more because you're expecting the worst, like stockpiling avocados due to potential price hikes."

Consequences of Doom Spending

The hosts warn that such spending habits can exacerbate personal debt and financial stress, creating a vicious cycle that hinders financial stability.

• Matt (29:24): "Doom spending can unravel your finances instead of providing security."

Policy Implications

They discuss recent tariff implementations and political uncertainties, which contribute to consumer anxiety and may fuel doom spending behaviors.

• Joel (30:15): "Tariff uncertainties are clouding economic prospects, leading people to make hasty purchasing decisions."

Advice to Listeners

Joel and Matt advise against reacting impulsively to economic fears by increasing spending. Instead, they recommend bolstering emergency savings and maintaining disciplined financial habits.

• Joel (30:51): "Don't front load spending based on rumors or uncertainties. Focus on building your emergency fund."

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5. Mini Stagcession and Market Volatility

Defining Mini Stagcession

The term "mini stagcession" refers to a potential economic scenario characterized by weak growth and persistent inflation, creating a challenging environment for both consumers and businesses.

• Matt (31:07): "Mini stagcession represents a combination of weak economic growth and inflation, leading to market fluctuations."

Market Reactions

Joel notes the increased intraday market volatility, attributing it to the uncertain economic outlook and potential stagflation fears.

• Joel (31:30): "Market fluctuations have been insane, reflecting the broader economic anxieties."

Strategic Financial Planning

The hosts recommend maintaining consistent investment strategies and avoiding reactive changes based on short-term market movements.

• Matt (31:30): "Don't adjust your investment strategy based on daily market headlines. Stay focused on your long-term goals."

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6. National Cryptocurrency Reserve

Government's Crypto Initiative

Joel introduces the concept of a proposed national cryptocurrency reserve by the current administration, aiming to emulate Norway's sovereign wealth fund.

• Joel (34:10): "President Trump is keen on starting a national cryptocurrency reserve, potentially investing in assets like Bitcoin."

Potential Benefits and Drawbacks

Matt expresses a neutral stance, acknowledging the potential financial gains while cautioning against the volatility and risks associated with cryptocurrencies.

• Matt (38:12): "While it could be a smart move given the government's spending, the volatility of crypto assets remains a concern."

Joel is more skeptical, emphasizing the risks of government involvement in volatile crypto markets and the lack of clarity surrounding the initiative.

• Joel (39:28): "I don't think it's a smart move for the federal government to heavily invest in crypto given its unpredictable nature."

Impact on Personal Finances

The hosts advise listeners to limit their cryptocurrency investments and avoid overexposure, especially considering potential government-led initiatives that could sway market dynamics.

• Joel (41:13): "Keep your crypto investments limited to a small percentage of your portfolio to avoid undue risk."

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7. Listener Resources and Final Thoughts

Recommended Resources

Throughout the episode, Joel and Matt mention various resources for financial planning and support, including Domain Money and Money Management International.

• Joel (24:23): "Consider booking a free strategy session with Domain Money for personalized financial advice."

Closing Advice

Joel and Matt reiterate the importance of staying informed, maintaining disciplined financial habits, and seeking professional advice when necessary. They encourage listeners to stay proactive in managing their finances amidst economic uncertainties.

• Joel (43:20): "Always be your own affordability czar. No one will look after your hard-earned dollars like you can."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Joel (04:07): "Cultural events are underrated. Partaking in cultural events reduces your risk of depression by nearly half."

• Matt (07:12): "Relationships lead to the highest amounts of happiness and life satisfaction. Cultural events often involve being around others, which overlaps with these findings."

• Joel (10:00): "We've seen trends like income-based repayment programs become less accessible after recent court rulings, putting borrowers in limbo."

• Matt (11:02): "Borrowers are left waiting to see what repayment plans will be available, causing significant stress and confusion."

• Joel (30:51): "Don't front load spending based on rumors or uncertainties. Focus on building your emergency fund."

• Matt (31:07): "Mini stagcession represents a combination of weak economic growth and inflation, leading to market fluctuations."

• Joel (34:10): "President Trump is keen on starting a national cryptocurrency reserve, potentially investing in assets like Bitcoin."

• Joel (39:28): "I don't think it's a smart move for the federal government to heavily invest in crypto given its unpredictable nature."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Joel and Matt offer a comprehensive analysis of current financial trends and challenges, providing listeners with practical advice to navigate student loan uncertainties, resist impulsive spending driven by fear, and approach emerging economic concepts like stagflation and cryptocurrency with caution. Their balanced perspectives aim to empower listeners to make informed financial decisions in an ever-changing economic landscape.

For more detailed discussions and additional resources, visit How to Money and subscribe to their newsletter for weekly financial insights.

Transcript

[Joel]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

I'm Joel. I'm Matt and today we're talking about student loan shakeups, doom spending and the mounting mini stack session.

[Matt]

That's right, this is our Friday flight where we take a look at the headlines from the past week and specifically look at how they are going to impact your personal finances. And Joe, when you say mini stack session, you need to say mini stack session because that's let me get on.

[Joel]

My helium balloon first.

[Matt]

That's how the the economist that coined that is attempting to predict the future. We're not going to make the predictions, but there are different folks who are looking off into the future.

[Joel]

They're trying to sometimes based on present stuff. Right. Which it's helpful to like he's trying to read the tea leaves, though, and say this is what's coming down the pike. And I think it's helpful for us to at least understand kind of what they're pointing to, those elements, but also not hold it with a grain of salt.

[Matt]

I think more than anything just to alleviate fears. Right. Not to say to be convinced of that this is why the thing is happening, but just as folks are freaking out, to understand, I guess some of the different positions that folks are approaching the argument with.

[Joel]

I think that is helpful when you see more headlines that use a scary word like we want to talk about it and shed some light and because there's a lot of doom and gloom out there. Can we start off by talking about something that I've been prioritizing in my budget over the past, I don't know, year and a half? I'll say. And that is to enjoy more cultural events. And I have literally called them cultural events. This is the thing that I've been shooting for.

[Matt]

Is that the line item on your non budget.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

That you don't have any time. Emily questions you about something, you're like, baby, that's part of my cultural event spending.

[Joel]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That spa day, that was my cultural event.

[Matt]

Sounds like the expenses are spending coming out of a parks and rec department. Maybe.

[Joel]

So. Okay, you joke, but I have been attempting to pull off and I made it initially a once a quarter goal. And then I said, you know what? No, I want to try to do this once a month, a cultural event. And so that can be.

[Matt]

Did you start that this year?

[Joel]

I started that last year.

[Matt]

Oh, okay.

[Joel]

So it could be a concert. Although concert ticket prices have gone up substantially.

[Matt]

It could be folks going into debt for that.

[Joel]

Yeah. It could be going to see a play. It could be like I took my daughter to see a Shakespeare play at the Shakespeare Tavern recently and it was awesome. We had the best time. And they're just. I think cultural events are underrated. And there was actually, as I told my wife about kind of why I want to prioritize this more and more. She said, actually, I just read something the other day. You should check this out. And there was, here's the headline. Psychiatrist discovered doing this just once a month cuts your risk of depression in half.

[Matt]

Was it cultural events?

[Joel]

Cultural events. Partaking in cultural events. So not only.

[Matt]

So you don't even have to defend Your own case. She's doing it for you.

[Joel]

That's right. So thank you, Emma, for contributing to the show here. But what they said was if you do one outing, one cultural events outing every few months, like I was doing once a quarter initially, it reduces your risk of depression by 32%. If you instead prioritize a cultural event on a monthly basis, that could be, by the way, a museum outing, going to the botanical gardens. There are so many ways that you can use that culture, but it doesn't even have to be expensive. It will, though, cause your risk of depression to fall by nearly half, by 48%.

[Matt]

All right. Do they also call them cultural events?

[Joel]

They literally called them cultural events in there, because that's what I'd been labeling them. I didn't know what else to call them. That's pretty hilarious. And so I think maybe this can hopefully incentivize people to think about. I think it could also think about the wanderlust that people feel, Matt. They. They're like, I gotta go to Europe. I gotta get out of here. There's something about instituting more regular cultural events into your life and into your budget that maybe feels like you don't have to take the big swing on the expensive vacation.

[Matt]

Smaller splurges more often. I totally love that. And I love that you specifically have identified this. But I will say I think it would, like. It is important. Rather stay depressed. No, I'm just saying, like, the argument I'm gonna make is that it's not like I do think folks should probably push themselves to do something like that. But, you know, for you, it moves the needle significantly. Yeah, I think for some folks, they're gonna be like, meh, I don't. I don't really want it. For some folks, it's like, well, I'd rather go on a cruise. I just like sitting there, going to island hopping, that kind of thing. I think there might be some folks who are just like, well, when I have some time and money, I just like to go shopping. Like, that's how I unwind. And I don't think we would consider either of those cultural events. No, I wouldn't.

[Joel]

I think they're in a different category for sure.

[Matt]

Yeah. And so just to identify that, for some folks, spending, I think, can look a little bit different. And it may not move the needle as much for them. But whatever that is for you, figure out what that thing is.

[Joel]

But I thought it was interesting to see this data because I do think the average person, it is going to move the needle. And maybe you don't think about it like that. I think too about the before. Like looking up forward to the cultural event that's upcoming. I get to think about it for months. Typically because I bought a ticket or I.

[Matt]

Something you're looking forward to.

[Joel]

Yeah. It's on the calendar. And then I get to look back at that event and say, oh man, think about how great that was. Do you remember when we did that? It was so good. Kind of like a vacation. And that's one of the things that our friend Scott Kais talks about with vacations is like half the fun is planning and getting ready for it, not just the taking of the vacation.

[Matt]

I do wonder if they accounted for the social sort of spillover or crossover like. Like in the Venn diagram between cultural events and relationships and community. How much overlap is there? Because like I said. So I do think for some people they're kind of like, yeah, I don't know. Like that sounds like it would be fun. But maybe for me less so. I do think, and there has been tons and there continues to be research that points to the fact that we have fewer relationships than ever.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And that when we do prioritize those that we tend to live happier, longer lives, that increases life satisfaction. And that's regardless if you are an introvert or an extrovert. I think that there is a degree of us needing to push ourselves a little bit more than what we think we need when it comes to social interactions. But that's not the path that we find ourselves on. Right. I can think about the. What is the Harvard Longitudinal Happiness Study. And the number one thing that leads to the highest amounts of happiness and self satisfaction and fulfilling life are those relationships. And often a lot of cases, I think what you're finding in these different cultural events, they include other people.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So is it the ticket? Is it ensured there's a certain amount of enjoyment? I think it's personal development that you're getting out of that. But there's a whole lot of friendship and community and being around other people that in my mind directly overlays the. You know, those two circles.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Might be highly overlapping. Worth something worth considering as well.

[Joel]

We've got a little.

[Matt]

So what I'm saying is that a cultural outing or event could be even beyond buying some cured meats at Aldi and having a picnic in the park with some friends. Right. Like, but I love.

[Joel]

Don't overthink it. And don't think that you gotta go see Beyonce when she comes to town. And spend 900 on that ticket.

[Matt]

That's insane. Yeah.

[Joel]

To enjoy a cultural event with your friends, like you don't have to.

[Matt]

There's affordable ways of doing it.

[Joel]

And sometimes it might be a semi expensive concert ticket, but other times it can be a whole lot cheaper or potentially free. Especially I was just thinking about this too.

[Matt]

Especially if you're not dropping big money on those expensive vacations.

[Joel]

I was thinking the library offers the ability to go to get some of those cultural events for free, potentially like going to the zoo or the aquarium or the botanical gardens. You might be able to pull off that cultural event for $0 and enjoy.

[Matt]

Or even going to the library. Like our kids at a school, sometimes they're just like meeting up there, hanging out. And again, there's that social element. Yeah, I love it.

[Joel]

All right, cultural events for the win. Let's talk about student loans. Matt. That the trend of student loan forgiveness and of income based repayment programs has been to make them more and more generous. Right. As student loan debt, it's become a more significant issue for borrowers. We've just seen that up into the right trend for student loan debt. $1.7 trillion Overall, I think in student loan debt these days. These ballooning debt burdens, they've basically been the norm as college prices increased so much faster than the rate of inflation in recent decades. While student loan borrowers, they still made more money than their peers who didn't get a degree. We've talked about that two before. What, a million dollars in lifetime earnings on average for the versus the typical high school graduate? Well, various government administrations have opted to make those loans less onerous through different repayment programs like pay and repay and then most recently the safe plan that was attempted a couple of years ago. But the current administration is taking a different route. They seem to be of the opinion that student loan benevolence has kind of gone too far. And then so after a January court ruling against save and then another recent one in March, the Education department, they actually just recently took applications for student loan forgiveness and for repayment plans off the website as these court rulings have essentially put those Biden administration plans that were more generous on hold, which puts a lot of borrowers in limbo, Matt. There's. There's essentially now zero ability to switch or to sign up for a new or different repayment plan or to even verify your income if your date is approaching because of this freeze. And it's just kind of leav student loan borrowers in the lurch right now.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. So how long will that freeze last? We don't know. But the sad thing is that student loan borrowers continue to be kept on pins and needles. So first, initially it was waiting and hoping for student loan forgiveness, and now it was just waiting to see what sort of payment plan that you're going to be able to get on and how long your path to potential forgiveness might take. The lack of clarity, which I totally get, is so frustrating. And so at least one piece of advice that we can offer in these uncertain times is to keep making payments no matter what, what plan that you're on. The Journal actually profiled steep credit drops for borrowers who didn't resume making payments back in October. And so what they found was that 90 days after that resumed, credit scores began to plummet.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And so clearly there is just a large amount of confusion. This is a quote from the Journal. 43% of borrowers who owe payments on federal student loans haven't resumed making them.

[Joel]

That's crazy. It's crazy.

[Matt]

And it's like, I wonder if, I think it's less confusion and maybe just that they are ill informed because when that was something that you've been promised over the past four years. I get the confusion, I get the misunderstanding, but I get there's also even.

[Joel]

Out of sight, out of mind, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, exactly.

[Joel]

Hey, don't pay your student loans. Don't pay your student loans. Don't pay your student loans. Wait a second. Pay your student loans? And you're like, I didn't get the last memo. Yeah.

[Matt]

So like we're talking about 100 plus point drop for some borrowers which impacts every area of your financial life. So we're highlighting this. We do know the student loan space is a complete mess. If you're not sure where you stand, make login, check your plan, check your payment status over on studentaid.gov. either take screenshots of your payment history or download some of those transactions to be able to keep up with the payments you've already made. The plan that you're currently on to be able to document this, it's, it's, it shouldn't be this way, but it feels like it's sort of the wild West. We're not totally sure where this. It's like a safari expedition where there's like no road. And she's like, are we going to go over there? Like where it looks super sketchy and rough, or are we. Maybe we'll go like this direction. We're not totally sure which direction the government is going to choose to go.

[Joel]

Yeah, well. And I think if you are in the safe plan and you're banking on those payments being like right now you're in forbearance if you're on the safe plan. But if you're banking on the having those safe plan payments once the hoping that it comes back online, I would not plan on that and I would plan on making a payment that's probably double whatever the safe plan payment was likely to be. Which obviously is like a crazy thing to hear. But I think it's the only rational way to approach this. And then plan for the worst, but hope for the best. And for parents of upcoming students who are, who are going to college soon, keeping student loan debt to a minimum. I think it's just more important than ever, man. I mean it's always been something that we have stressed, but given the uncertainty in the student loan space and the fact that we're probably going to have less generous repayment plans on offer, like I would just want to take on less debt in general because of that.

[Matt]

That's right. Okay. Consumer Reports, they just put out their list of the best new cars for 2025. Toyota and Subaru were both well represented. This continues my streak of wanting to own a Toyota specific angel. I've been on this Toyota kit for a while. They're pretty great. They're so evidently they're like super, you know, supposed to be super reliable.

[Joel]

I'm waiting till the I want to.

[Matt]

I want to see in a hybrid is what I want. I want a minivan that's a hybrid where I'm getting better gas mileage than what I'm getting right now because I'm.

[Joel]

Waiting for the miles that we're driving solid state EVs that Toyota is going to put out. So when's that going to be like 2028?

[Matt]

I think it's going to continue to get kicked down the red.

[Joel]

You think so?

[Matt]

Well, I mean look at the current administration. You know, they're cutting some.

[Joel]

Yeah, but, but that doesn't mean that Toyota technology is going to be.

[Matt]

There's, there's, there's fewer incentives.

[Joel]

Toyota basically said we're going to bet on hybrids now.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And we're going to push towards better EV technology. And when that comes down the pike, it's going to be a game changer for EVs.

[Matt]

I do. Whenever it does actually get implemented and start where they start selling it to the masses. Yes, I totally agree. Back to Consumer Reports though. The cheapest new car that they Highlighted is the Nissan Sentra, which it can be had for not much more than $20,000.

[Joel]

That was car when I first met her. It was a nice burgundy Sentra.

[Matt]

The Sentras look better than they used to back in the day. Like I see Centras now, I'm just like, that's a sharp looking car, man. Reliability, fuel economy, they were two of the top metrics that Consumer Reports was keeping in mind. But still we would prefer to steer folks in the direction of buying used cars, not these new slick 20, 25 cars. I'll say. I think the exception is if you're worried about perhaps maybe buying a lemon and you're willing to keep that new car for at least 10 years if you can. I don't know man. Even part of that makes me a little, a little hesitant.

[Joel]

It's not going to be the best financial move but it's such a reasonable.

[Matt]

One and there's just such a financial hit that you're taking with that those first three years, especially of depreciation that really like you need to be in such a solid position financially in order before you're buying a new car, even a new Nissan Sentra. But if you are keen on buying something brand new, opting for one of Consumer Reports favorites, I think that would be totally wise. While we're talking about cars, Icycars, which is like a data aggregate, I don't know, they release surveys and lots of data that we like to look at. Iseecars also released a new study of the most reliable used cars. And at the top of the list, Honda Fit Baby. It's got the best five and ten year track record.

[Joel]

I think the ten year old car was like what, $11,000 for a ten year old Honda F super affordable.

[Matt]

And we published, we released this this past week in our newsletter but the average used vehicle now is 14 years old. That's on the road. And when I came across that dude, it completely blew my mind. Specifically because I always saw myself as like someone who better than average car.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

In this case older than average. And I'm like, wait a minute, I've got a 2012. That means my van is only 13 years old. There's a bunch of folks out there who are beating me, dude. It makes me want to keep that car on the road even longer because I'm just like wait a minute, I'm barely aver.

[Joel]

You got to do better.

[Matt]

I know.

[Joel]

Does it make you want to sell that and go get like a 2006 or something?

[Matt]

Not at all. But it does make Me want to take care of that thing. I never posted pictures. Remember I talked about making the side mirrors like I was going to sand them down and spray paint? I totally did that. And like these small little things to maintain your vehicle. It makes you feel better about it. Sort of like when you're talking about cleaning up, cleaning up your Blackstone, getting all the grease off, you're like, wait a minute, this is a solid grill. That's how I feel about are riding now. So I'm gonna keep it on the road. Maintenance goes a long way for much, much longer. Many more years of life on that thing.

[Joel]

Sticking with the car stuff, if you get in a wreck, which I hope nobody out there listening does, especially if you're driving right now, pay attention, right? There's a higher likelihood actually that your car is going to be totaled. These days, if you do end up in an accident, instead of getting that car repaired, it's likely to be scrapped. And that's at least partially because cars come with more expensive parts these days and smarter computer elements. I think it's also just Matt, the rising costs of labor in that sector.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel]

Electric vehicles are also part of the reason why. Why this is the case as well. Because battery damage can cause repair prices to soar significantly. That EV gets in an accident and the battery elements get damaged, and boom shakalaka, you're talking about replacing the. Hold on battery. That ain't cheap.

[Matt]

Is the. When the solid state rolls around, is that going to. Is that going to impact the ability to replace certain elements?

[Joel]

That's a good question. If you could just replace certain.

[Matt]

Like the dam.

[Joel]

Yeah, certain. Some of the cells that are damaged instead of replacing the whole pack.

[Matt]

That in mind, that would. That'd be smart.

[Joel]

That'd be a game changer.

[Matt]

If you could just like pop out a few bricks like a bunch of Legos. Yep, that sounds cool.

[Joel]

That'd be brilliant. But this also means your repair times are increasing. I think the average repair wait is like close to a month now, which is crazy.

[Matt]

Geez.

[Joel]

What does this all mean?

[Matt]

I believe that one of my neighbors, he's been driving a rental vehicle. I don't think his car got in a wreck, but maybe it had a recall. So it's back at the. I'm assuming it's back at the dealership because it's like a new pickup truck and he's been driving this other pickup truck, and it's been a few weeks now. So I did not even think about it.

[Joel]

Well, I think about your father in law when he had an issue with his car. And, man, it was in there for months.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Like multiple months.

[Matt]

Yeah. They had an actual lemon that they ended up having to actually make a claim with the dealership and had that thing. They bought it back, basically.

[Joel]

Yeah. Don't sleep on lemon laws in your state if. If you need it. But this is, I think, just another data point that points that we're going to see higher car insurance prices that will likely outpace general inflation moving forward. You also might not get enough money. Right. That equals the value of the total vehicle. So they say, hey, the vehicle's total. Here's what we think it's worth. Here's what we pay, what we're paying. And you might need to fight back and say, no, actually, it's worth this much. Here are my sources. Yeah, you might need to appeal what they say and also save up because you might need to use other dollars that you have to subsidize. Right. The price of that next car if you're, let's say, upgrading it, getting a few years newer. That's what we did the last time, Matt. Our car, our 2006 Odyssey, was in an accident and it got totaled. We upgraded to a 2013 odyssey. We weren't planning on upgrading, but it just made sense, I think, at that point in time. But, yeah, you just have to be prepared from a financial perspective and from an insurance perspective.

[Matt]

Yeah. And to know that it probably is going to be smart to not buy at the top end of your car budget because there are some of these other expenses that maybe you weren't necessarily counting on. While we're talking about transportation, there's a relatively new e bike rebate program that's attempting to reduce the price of e bikes for folks who don't make a whole lot of money in the fair city of Atlanta. And it turns out that that is working out quite well. New stats find that folks who got an E bike through the program are driving their cars less. 74% of the recipients, they ride their new e bike at least two days a week. And those folks are driving 40% less to either work or to school after their E bike purchase, which is awesome.

[Joel]

Love it.

[Matt]

Of course, it reduces congestion on the road. I think it also does a good amount of stress reduction. And of course, it increases the amount of activity, the amount of exercise for those bikers. Even with the E assist, you still are moving your legs a little bit, way more than just pressing the pedal when you, you know, when the light turns green.

[Joel]

Being on an e Bike is better than being in a car.

[Matt]

Absolutely. And for the city, I think it's money well spent too. You know, it's just cheaper than adding more infrastructure for the cars. It's much, it's going to be a lot more affordable over the long haul to maintain bike lanes, paths or even roads that bikes are riding on. Of course, than 3,000 pound vehicle.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

The more is that how much cars weigh? I don't even know. I just made that up.

[Joel]

Three, four thousand pounds maybe. But yeah, I think that the more bike infrastructure we have, it's almost like if you build it, they will come and if you pay people to get them, people will actually like jump on it. And it can I think revolutionize the way people get around town. And then once there's like a critical mass of bikers, that's a good thing for the city, right? As a whole, it's a good thing for pollution and it's a good thing for infrastructure. You're right. I think it can reduce the government's cost overall. Plus it's fun by kind of leaning into bikes and it's fun. It's fun. And you see your neighbors more, you talk to them more when you walk and ride your bike versus driving your car.

[Matt]

We did a whole episode on this way back in the day, back when we were much younger dads.

[Joel]

Let's rehash the whole thing right now. Well, other towns like Denver have offered bike rebates for citizens too. But I think most how to money listeners, they don't have access to a subsidized E bike. But still, I think it's. It's worth noting that E bikes have come down in price significantly. Cargo E bikes, you and I, well, you have a cargo regular bike. I have a cargo E bike. Those are great if you have kids or if you're hauling stuff. But I think looking to brands, they're not like the top tier brands. The top tier brands are going to cost a lot of money still. But like rad power bikes and electric, those are solid. You can get solid bikes from them for less than a grand. Or if you're wanting to buy used scour Facebook marketplace, you can find a pretty solid E bike that someone else said, yeah, I didn't really ride that very much and you might be able to get it half off from what the MSRP was. So this is a case. I think we're spending a little bit of money. If you actually use the bike, it's going to save you more money over time.

[Matt]

Yeah. And you mentioned that I've got that regular muscle powered E bike or not E bike. It's an Octi moron one. Not necessarily, but just a traditional non electric cargo bike. And have we talked about this on the show that I'm planning to sell mine.

[Joel]

You've had it listed.

[Matt]

Have you sold the Yuba Mundo? Well, I listed it in the middle of the winter and nobody wants to ride a bike when it's like freezing outside. Now is a great time, but I'm gonna, yeah, renew it. Drop the price, you know, like a hundred bucks. But I'm so sad, dude. It's like the end of an era. Like we have so many. It feels like a part of the family that we're giving away or selling or something like that. But like we have so many memories.

[Joel]

Especially early on away with a kid on the back.

[Matt]

Back in the day when the our oldest girls started pre K. That's how we got them to pre K. Like it wasn't carpool, it was bike pool. You would swing by in the morning, you had your oldest already there on a bike. Ev would get on there, you would ride off, drop them off and then I would pick him up in the like I had more flexibility as well. I'm still self employed but back then I had the ability to go in the middle of the day and pick them up at like one or two whatever.

[Joel]

But like man, those afternoon bike rides.

[Matt]

Oh my gosh, dude, I have such fun memories. It's gonna be sad to see that thing go. Yeah, but we're just in a stage of life where we're not using them nearly as much as we used to. Kids are getting older and they're riding their own bikes. Don't need the cargo bike anymore. We still have a whole arsenal stable of traditional bikes.

[Joel]

But man, for those years when your kids are real young and they can.

[Matt]

Hop on the back, it's so stinking fun.

[Joel]

So money. We've got more to get to Matt. Including we'll talk about doom spending and a national cryptocurrency reserve. Is that a good idea? And how will that impact your finances? We'll get to that and more right after. Are you 100% sure you're doing all the smartest things for your money? To be completely honest, I wasn't. And that's coming from someone who has committed their life to personal finance for nearly two decades.

[Matt]

That's right. So you looked into a company called Domain Money. Their team of expert certified financial planners get to know what matters the most to you. They analyze every aspect of your financial life. They build you a personalized plan with clear steps to reach each one of your goals. They make it incredibly easy to make money. It's like having your own personal cfo, therapist and money coach all in one.

[Joel]

Yeah, I personally worked with Katie Song. She's an absolute gem. And the best part is that you can work with Katie or one of the expert certified financial planners on her team. I'm always looking out for great resources to recommend to the how to Money community and I can confidently tell you that Domain Money exceeded my expectations. And for a limited time they're doing free 30 minute strategy sessions. So start today by booking a free strategy session with one of their experts by going to domainmoney.com howtomoney I am a current client of Domain Money. I received a financial plan as part of the compensation for Domain Money's advertising on the podcast and therefore I have an incentive to promote Domain Money. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Will we have another bull market in 2025 or we're going to get a bear market? What about inflation? Will it continue to calm or will higher prices remain sticky? Wouldn't it be cool if someone could invent a crystal ball that would give us some foresight?

[Matt]

Well, until then. Joel Over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books out in days, not weeks, you are spending less time looking backwards and more time on what is next. Our business is really small, but if we needed netsuite, we would be pumped about the time the cost savings that it provides. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars, NetSuite helps you to respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

[Joel]

Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com the guide is free to you at netsuite.com howtomoney that's netsuite.com howtomone and now a word from our sponsors at Betterment when investing your money starts to feel like a second job, Betterment steps in with little work Life Balance they're an automated investing and savings app, which means they do the work.

[Matt]

Yeah. While they build and manage your portfolio, you build and manage your weekend plans. While they make it easy to invest for what matters, you just get to enjoy what matters. Their automated tools simplify the complex and they put your money to work optimizing day after day and again and again. So go ahead, take your time to rest and recharge. Because while your money doesn't need a work life balance, you do make your.

[Joel]

Money hustle with betterment. Get [e-mail] that's B E T T E R m e n t.com investing involves risk performance not guaranteed.

[Matt]

We are back from the break and of course it is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week, which is from CNBC. The headline reads 1 in 5Americans are Doomed spending. And here's how that can backfire. Joel, There is a new report and they find that 20% of folks out there are partaking in what's now being called doom spending, which is just another term. You know how these news organizations come up with the different terms.

[Joel]

We feel like they're being coined right and left.

[Matt]

It is essentially buying more stuff because of fears about the future. You are expecting the worst. And some folks out there are citing incoming tariffs as a reason to buy stuff now that they otherwise would have avoided or at least waited longer to purchase. And you know, you listen to how to money before you've heard our take on this. You know, we don't love this mindset to buy something before you otherwise would. It's like we're always either in a period of economic uncertainty or we're just around the corner for something from something terrible happening.

[Joel]

Joel, don't let the other shoe's about to drop.

[Matt]

Yeah, don't let this instill fear in you. Don't let it change your money actions, your habits, especially if that reaction would be to increase your spending.

[Joel]

Yeah, don't freak out, folks. Maybe doom saving, doom saving is a better way of going. And that's what the emergency fund is all about. It's like if you're nervous about the future, which it should lead you to stockpile more cash.

[Matt]

But even still, it shouldn't be in reaction to something that's going on. Regardless of what's going on in rosy times or when things aren't looking so good, you should have that emergency fund because I'm pushing back. Because if someone starts freaking out and they start thinking, well, I can't invest money if only bad times are ahead, they're not going to be willing to dollar cost average and they're going to pull back a little bit. They're going to sit on cash, potentially miss out on obviously what that would have done had that been invested and experienced that.

[Joel]

Compounding, I agree. I think some people opt for doom spending when their debt is feeling out of control with the logic of why not? Because I'm digging myself in a bigger hole.

[Matt]

It's like throwing the towel in essentially.

[Joel]

I think that's exactly what happens here. The truth is those additional purch will catch up to you and it makes the eventual payoff process even more painful. And by the way, if you're in that position, you're like, man, my debt is overwhelming. There are nonprofits that can help you, like Money Management International. It's worth talking to a budget counselor there. We've also, Matt, we've talked about how tariffs are likely to impact prices. And so I think that's part of why people are doom spending. They're seeing kind of tariff implementation, economic uncertainty, and they're saying, man, I need to front load some purchases because prices are about to go up. That's what I'm reading about. And you know, Trump called the tariffs against Mexico and Canada off last month, but they went into effect this Tuesday and then got pulled back. In part, they're making more concessions as.

[Matt]

Well, like the U.S. mexico, Canada agreements.

[Joel]

And then it looks like some agricultural products. Right. Are going to also be taken off the chopping block. Oh, man, it's so confusing.

[Matt]

And you're like, dang it, I bought a bunch of stuff on Tuesday.

[Joel]

I stockpiled avocados because I thought the prices were going to go up. Right. The truth is prices are going to rise on a lot of goods if tariffs stay around for long. But will they stay around? We don't know. We don't know what's going to happen with tariffs.

[Matt]

That's a big question.

[Joel]

So much see sawing happening. I think no matter what, it still doesn't mean that you should front load spending, especially if it means taking on more debt. I think that increases anxiety and that leads to a doom spending, doom loop. That's what I foresee for a lot of people. If you partake in doom spending, it's. It's likely to unravel things instead of help.

[Matt]

Yeah, we'll definitely be keeping up with the tariff conversation how it impacts our money because they could end up sparking stagflation, which is a combination of weak economic growth and inflation. And here we go. So one economist used the adorable term mini stag session.

[Joel]

It's so much more palatable.

[Matt]

Mini stag session. We're not fans of making predictions, man. We try not to do it. We're not changing our investing strategy. We're not changing how, what it is that we're buying. But even if stagflation doesn't materialize, uncertainty, it's one of the worst words, I think, for business owners and operators. And I think that's a big part of why, I mean, it's why we're seeing fluctuations like crazy in the market.

[Joel]

Right now, intraday fluctuations that are, They've been insane.

[Matt]

Yeah, they've been insane. And hopefully you aren't glued to the headlines and adjusting not only how it is that you're spending on a day to day basis, but we certainly don't want to see you change how it is that you're investing your dollars. Because honestly, in the, I mean, personally, I think everything is going to be fine. Not because anyone is brilliant or anything. I don't know, like, we've kind of had this conversation, but. And this is where I don't know, maybe folks are going to say, I'm more of a conspiracy theorist, Joel, but I've shared this with you. Who was sitting there on the podium with Trump when he got inaugurated like two months ago?

[Joel]

All the tech oligarchs.

[Matt]

You saw Tim Cook or Tim Apple.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Of course, Elon was there, but like Bezos, who else was there?

[Joel]

Sundar from Google.

[Matt]

Zuckerberg. He was there as well. Right. These are the biggest companies in the US Are you telling me? And so because they were there, there's no way that that was their first conversation that they've had with Trump or with the current administration, with the White House. I think, man, that there has got to be back channels open where they're having conversations with these big companies and saying, hey, all right, we gotta play tough, we gotta play hardball. We're gonna, we're gonna threaten these terrorists. Don't freak out. Everyone else is gonna be freaking out. Just keep on doing what you've always done. Obviously this is a more generous of what's been going on.

[Joel]

Wow. I don't even know if that's generous though, because then there's all these other small businesses. It's like, why are you linking up with the richest American, the richest dudes who run the biggest companies, when all the other small businesses, that uncertainty impacts them a lot more than it impacts the big companies who often have ways of sidestepping the tariffs.

[Matt]

Finding, you know, I guess I'm highlighting that. I think it's perceived uncertainty as opposed to actual uncertainty. That's. I mean, and this is why we, you know, big companies report, why they have earnings reports. Right. And small businesses pay attention to that. It sets the tone for what's going on in the economy. That's a generous, optimistic interpretation. If Trump actually thinks that terrorists are going to be good for our country, then I think he's an idiot, because all economists have pointed to the fact that this is not going to make our country wealthier.

[Joel]

That's one of those things where, if you ask any economist, no matter where they fall on the political spectrum, they're pretty much going to agree on that. There are some outliers, of course, but it's the same thing when we talk about rent control. Almost all economists right and left agree that rent control is a terrible idea. And I think the same is true with how economists think about tariffs, and so totally agree. It's interesting that we're still testing the tariff waters here, and, and I think that lack of clarity about when tariffs are going to be implemented, at what rate they're going to be implemented, and then how are friendly countries that we're friendly with and countries that were not as friendly with, how they're going to respond and then how long they'll stick around, those are all clouding what's going to happen with the American economy. And I think it just leads to negative outcomes for consumers and for businesses alike.

[Matt]

Yeah. So let's keep the your money and government train rolling for a bit more here. Joel, There's a new position that is being created, the Affordability Czar.

[Joel]

I've already sent in my application.

[Matt]

It's coming soon.

[Joel]

Do you think I'll get the job, Matt?

[Matt]

Only if you promise to appoint me on the board because they are putting together a board. But we'll see how this shakes out.

[Joel]

My mini czar right next to me.

[Matt]

It's an interesting move, given the $1,200 in average on annual spending impact that terrorists are predicted to have on U.S. households. But this affordability czar will likely be tasked with trying to reduce prices on everything from homes to cars, groceries, electronics as well.

[Joel]

I'll do my best, folks.

[Matt]

I am highly skeptical.

[Joel]

You don't think I can do it?

[Matt]

Of this? Not of you, but just of this government intervention? It seems insane. I do think, like, yeah, maybe there could be some wiggle room right in the healthcare space to encourage or to mandate some pricing transparency, which could help consumers shop in a more informed way. We just were talking about the high Cost of college. The only thing that has outpaced college when it comes to outpacing the average rate of inflation is medical spending. So I think that could be good. But either way, keep listening to how to money and be your own affordability. Zar folks, no one is going to look after your hard earned dollars like you. This seems completely unnecessary to It's a create. It's a creation of another perhaps government organization to counter what another part of the government is doing. Seems highly inefficient. I disapprove.

[Joel]

Yeah. Well and yeah that in intervention into markets to try and stymie cost increases, both sides of the aisle have kind of gone. We talked about that with attempts to raid in what were being called greedflation and how we didn't think that was a good idea. And similarly you're trying to go in there and force companies to cut prices. I think no matter from which side of the political fence you're sitting on, it's not going to work out well.

[Matt]

Sounds like interference to me.

[Joel]

Yeah, the market is going to do better at regulating that and we just have to pay attention and save the best we can. We talk about that a lot on the show here, don't we? FreeTheMarket I like that people still using hashtags these days. Yeah, they're going to use that one.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

Well, President Trump also seems to be keen on starting a national cryptocurrency reserve. Hooray for taxpayers. I say that tongue in cheek because it's another policy we're just not keen on. He's not talking about the United States owning just bitcoin, but adding in some smaller and some lesser known cryptocurrencies too. Fortunately not his own meme coin. Although details on what this national crypto reserve is going to look like, those details are thin. And I think the goal is at least in part to try and do what Norway has done. They have a sovereign wealth fund that allows the country to prosper as markets perform well. Norway has crushed it when it comes to investing. They're almost as good as Nancy Pelosi. Matt But Norway doesn't have the debt problems that we have and so we have significant debt. So instead of paying down debt, we would be investing that money instead to pay down debt after we've seen our national cryptocurrency wallet soar. I guess that's the plan. That's the way it's at least been posited. But as friend of the show Noah Smith, who we had on recently said, he said this is going to require either raising taxes on American people or making the US government go deeper into debt at a time when interest payments are already spiraling out of control. I just, I just don't see a reason for us as taxpayers to be on the hook for a government run crypto endeavor.

[Matt]

I think it's an okay idea. I don't, I don't like totally love it, but I also don't totally hate it. Because if you think like, there's just so much ridiculous stuff that we are spending money on, like, would it be the worst thing for the US to have its own crypto wallet? I don't know. Like, I think about it like AI we don't totally know what the implications of AI is going to be. And the government is doing the best it can to encourage the private development of AI specifically to compete with China. Right.

[Joel]

At least that creates jobs, a lot of jobs.

[Matt]

That is true. But bottom line, we don't know exactly how that's going to shake out and what that's going to look like off in the future. That's kind of how I feel about bitcoin, like the way bitcoin.

[Joel]

But what about XRP and Solana and these other.

[Matt]

I definitely can't get behind those at least. Yeah, Trump's meme coin wasn't a part of the announced reserve. But I guess I just see the potential downsides of the US not having a bitcoin reserve being greater than had we dumped some money into it.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

And who the heck knows what's going to happen? But if like it hits 1 million by 2030 or 2035, like that's something. These are predictions that are being made. We have a friend, Joel, and he recently shared that and he wasn't. He didn't like lay all of his cards on the table, but he basically pointed out it was very easy to gather that from a small investment, like back in 2017 in Bitcoin, like anywhere between like a $20,000 and a $50,000 investment that his Bitcoin is now worth between 2 and $8 million. That's not chump change. And so you multiply that across something like what the US might be able to do often in the future. It's just something to consider. I don't think it's the dumbest idea, especially given the vast amounts of money that the US is already spending. I guess I'm just a bit more neutral on the crypto reserve.

[Joel]

Yeah, I'm less neutral.

[Matt]

Specifically bitcoin. I will say that.

[Joel]

And if it was Bitcoin in particular.

[Matt]

Would you feel differently if it was only bitcoin?

[Joel]

I would feel a little differently. I still don't think it's necessarily a smart move by our federal government to go hog wild on crypto. And I think part of it is that a close access that a lot of crypto enthusiasts have to the current administration. That's part of the reason it's happening. It's also been interesting to see the reaction from kind of certain DeFi enthusiasts who are now either rooting for government option. Not everybody, though. There are some people in the crypto space who say this. No, that's the whole point was that like government wasn't involved, that this was essentially a non governmental asset. Yeah. I don't know if it does come to fruition, some crypto investors stand to benefit, especially if you own one of these five coins in a meaningful amount. I think the other thing to point out here, Matt, is that some people might say, well, if this happens, I should buy more cryptocurrency. I should have more. If the government is getting into it to this degree, well, then certainly I should own a whole lot more cryptocurrency myself. And I think it maybe makes people think about having more of their wealth tied up in cryptocurrency. And that does worry me a little bit too, especially when you look at like the huge bump after the announcement and then, guess what, crypto prices went right back down. It's such a volatile asset. I'm just worried about people thinking they need more cryptocurrency than they actually do.

[Matt]

Especially if they're neglecting the tried and true, the bread and the butter, the meat and potatoes. Joel. Instead, folks, we don't want folks to get focused on the foie gras.

[Joel]

You might call it the foie gras, I might call it the parsley. But.

[Matt]

I don't think anything that we have previously advocated for here on the show changes. Like if you wanted to have up to 5% of your overall portfolio in bitcoin, if you now want to consider some of these other coins, I think that's fine. But let's definitely keep it limited to 5%, ideally a lot less than that.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah. You don't want to lose sleep over the machinations.

[Matt]

Totally.

[Joel]

And I think with how quickly it moves, a lot of people do if they're over indexed towards crypto. All right, man, that's going to do it. For this episode, we will put links to some of the stories we mentioned today on the show up in the show notes on our [e-mail] don't forget to sign up for the how to Money newsletter. It comes out every Tuesday. It's chock full of helpful information and we would love for it to show up in your inbox. You can find [e-mail] newsletter. But Matt, that'll do it for this one. Until next time, Best friends out Best friends. Even if you're a money whiz, it can still be helpful to have some professional backup and advice. I talk about personal finance every day of my life and I was still able to get massive value chatting with a CFP from Domain Money. They analyze every aspect of your financial life and help you build a personalized plan with clear steps to reach each one of your goals.

[Matt]

That's right. And for a limited time they're doing free 30 minute strategy sessions. So start today by booking a free strategy session with one of their experts by going to domainmoney.com howtomoney I am.

[Joel]

A current client of Domain Money. I received a financial plan as part of the compensation for Domain Money's advertising on the podcast and therefore I have an incentive to promote Domain Money in.

[Matt]

A world of economic uncertainty and workplace transformation. Learn to Lead by Example from visionary C suite executives like Shannon Schuyler of PwC and Will Pearson of iHeartMedia. The good teacher explains the Great Teacher inspires. Don't always leave your team to do the work that's been the most important part of how to Lead by Example. Listen to Leading by Example executives making an impact on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like Chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty Tarang Amin, legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

[Matt]

Being a rock star is very fun.

[Joel]

But helping people is way more fun.

[C]

And Damian Maldonado, CEO of American Financing.

[Matt]

I figured out the formula. I just have to work hard.

[Joel]

Then that's magic.

[C]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and Magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.