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- [00:01]
Ben Walter
The Unshakeables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special Guest, chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.
- [00:37]
Matt
Almost all of us have got old stuff that we should be tossing out. But an old 401k, make sure it keeps working for you. A Fidelity Rollover IRA has no account fees or minimums to open. An easy to follow rollover process makes it simple to get started in under 15 minutes. Plus you'll have access to to a rollover specialist.
- [00:56]
Joel
That's right. Whether you've switched jobs or are just organizing your finances. Learn more@fidelity.com rollover consider all your options and the applicable fees and features of each before moving your retirement assets. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC hey there.
- [01:14]
Matt
This is Matt and Joel from the how to Money podcast.
- [01:17]
Joel
That's right. Joel and I both love traveling with our families. Actually this past fall break from school, we took a trip to Cape San Blas down there in Florida with some of the families from the kids. We all got our own Airbnbs. We had a great time.
- [01:30]
Matt
I love staying in an Airbnb, Matt. Plus, while you're traveling, you could be hosting guests in your own home. Now, with the Airbnb Co host feature, hosting is easier than ever. You can access a network of high quality local co hosts in your area who can help you get your home ready for guests. Find a co host@airbnb.com host welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.
- [01:50]
Joel
I'm Matt.
- [01:51]
Matt
And today we're talking Trump v2, ghost jobs and Insufficient Savings.
- [02:14]
Joel
Personally, Jill, I would have said Trump 2.0. And that's what everyone's calling it.
- [02:18]
Matt
That's what we should have. What did I. Why did you. Why didn't you help me?
- [02:21]
Joel
I like V2 as well. Okay, but no. This is our Friday flight, our weekly roundup of the different headlines we've come across this week. And specifically, we're going to talk about how they pertain to your money, not someone else's money. This is all about you.
- [02:34]
Matt
Well, I'm not infallible with my naming conventions. I will say, as you just pointed out Trump 2.0 would have been better.
- [02:40]
Joel
Well, it just rolled off the tongue. I think I've heard more folks recently talking about it.
- [02:43]
Matt
Well, we'll talk about 2.0. There's been a flurry. There's been a flurry of activity this week on the political front that does impact your money. We'll get to that in just a second. Matt. I logged into the back end of my mortgage account recently though and you know what it said on the right hand side, they were essentially trying to get me to do a cash out refinance which would be a terrible idea.
- [03:04]
Joel
Does not surprise me at all because this is a newer mortgage servicer, I'm assuming that purchased your old. That's right. There you go, dude. That is what they do. That is the business that they're in. They're all about trying to get you to take on some of these additional loan products that pad their bottom line.
- [03:18]
Matt
As anybody out there knows, if you've had your mortgage for any length of time, rates have gone up significantly. A cash out refi would put me in a really, really bad financial position. But what it said, like the marketing efforts said, your cash out resolution, pay down debt using equity and they're trying.
- [03:34]
Joel
To New year new you.
- [03:36]
Matt
That's right.
- [03:37]
Joel
Messaging and branding.
- [03:38]
Matt
They're trying to get that, hey, why don't you get a lump sum of cash in your life to, I don't know, get rid of other crappy debts that might be worse than your mortgage. What a bad idea that would be for basically everyone, right, to take a 3% mortgage, turn it into a 7% mortgage and then yeah, maybe pay down $10,000 worth of credit card debt or something like that. But then you've got that mortgage debt looming for 30 years. The next 30 years. You're probably extending the life of that loan significantly by doing that cash out refi. I mean cashier refis. They just make sense for basically no one around.
- [04:11]
Joel
Just given the fact that there's a chance that we'd never go back to the. I think some folks are thinking, well it'll come down at some point. We don't know that that is actually going to happen. It is yet to be determined.
- [04:22]
Matt
Those predictions and we talked about this at the time where you know, real estate agents, mortgage brokers were telling people, well, date marry the house, date the rate. Yeah, it doesn't look like a great suggestion. We said it at the time and I think we have been proven right. And yeah, will rates could rates potentially go down in the coming years? Maybe, Maybe. But, yeah, it's not like they totally.
- [04:43]
Joel
Could, but we don't know that they're going to.
- [04:45]
Matt
We don't know.
- [04:46]
Joel
All right, man. We saw a return to the Oval Office for President Trump, and I think a lot of folks might be wondering how this might impact our economy as a whole. How is this going to impact your personal finances? That remains to be seen. There's always a whole lot of talk and bluster when it comes to President Trump. There's a litany of things that we can discuss. For instance, the new 25% tariffs against Canada and Mexico that could be implemented as early as next week. In terrorists, they might serve a geopolitical purpose, but they essentially act as a tax on consumers. Yeah.
- [05:19]
Matt
Raising the price of everyday goods. Right. Whether it's auto parts, food, the litany of things.
- [05:25]
Joel
It's counter to the free market and the ability for companies to produce goods at the absolute lowest price. And again, I understand it from a geopolitical strategy standpoint, but how this impacts Americans, we will see how broad those tariffs are. That will also impact how we feel them. But there certainly is a chance that inflation, which has calmed it, you know, could potentially be stoked by this policy change. There were executive orders that could have an impact in the coming months, like an attempt to curb building restrictions in order to increase supply. How that actually will work in reality, it's a. It's going to be hard to discern.
- [06:00]
Matt
Sounds good on paper, but. Yeah. Yeah, I'm all for that. Yeah.
- [06:03]
Joel
Because that's what we need. For instance, when it comes to housing, the largest line item on everyone's monthly budget, more supply leads to lower prices.
- [06:11]
Matt
Building codes are often local. So how is some sort of federalist.
- [06:15]
Joel
Stroke of the pin, which is. Yeah. Everyone who is a big fan of Trump, of course, is praising the stroke of the pin, the phone call, and the ability to make everyone's lives better here in the States. But Dave Chappelle, he actually said it really well on Saturday Night Live. He said, whether people voted for you or not, everyone is counting on you. Good luck. Which I appreciate. Always count on Dave Chappelle to inject a little bit of common sense into the discourse of the time.
- [06:41]
Matt
Yeah, I appreciate Dave and that. Well said. Right? Well said. We are. We're hoping for the best. We always hope for the best for our presidents, whether you voted for them or not, because we want the best for our country and the 340 million people inside of it. I'm sure we're gonna have a lot to Talk about in the coming months, Matt, on the political front and how the political regime change impacts our finances. Because it will. It will have an impact.
- [07:04]
Joel
And hopefully we will pay attention to the headlines that are actually going to matter.
- [07:09]
Matt
Yeah.
- [07:09]
Joel
And the things that are actually going to happen. Because I'm sure so many media companies are like, yes, Trump's back in office because it gives them something to report on. And like, the craziness that oftentimes comes from the tweets or truths or whatever it is that Trump is saying.
- [07:24]
Matt
And you and I will attempt do our best to keep it apolitical and focus on the money stuff.
- [07:28]
Joel
Indeed.
- [07:29]
Matt
One thing we have to discuss is the meme coins that the President, the First lady, launched ahead of the inauguration. It was kind of a crazy stunt, right?
- [07:37]
Joel
Politics aside, it doesn't matter where you land on the spectrum. This is ridiculous.
- [07:40]
Matt
And we've kind of trash meme coins thoroughly. And the cryptocurrency space, we have, I think, given a lot of caution in our assessment of cryptocurrency and what kind of approach normal investors should have towards crypto. And some folks did make money in this kind of mean coin bonanza. If they bought early, they bought that Trump coin early, then they cashed out quick. But this is just another reminder that the meme coin space is rife with grift. The majority of people lose money. And it's interesting too, Matt, because the crypto space, I think they were hoping that a Trump presidency would usher in vibes of legitimacy. And there has been a lot of talk about, you know, bitcoin in particular, having a national bitcoin strategic reserve or something like that. Is that going to be a boon to some of the more popular, more long standing cryptocurrencies?
- [08:30]
Joel
Maybe, if it happens, yeah.
- [08:32]
Matt
But just this little stunt, I guess, hasn't you really aided in the legitimacy of crypto? It hasn't started off in a good way. And the takeaway for individuals listening is don't participate in the meme coin insanity, no matter who's launching it.
- [08:49]
Joel
Yeah. And I will say be ready to.
- [08:50]
Matt
Lose your shirt if you do.
- [08:51]
Joel
Yeah. And again, this is, I think this is an apolitical statement, but this shouldn't be anything new for folks who have, like, followed what it is that Trump has done. Like, this is like typical behavior for him. Right. Like, more recently, it's like the branded. It's the dumb Lee Greenwood Bibles that Trump was selling for. How much was he selling this for? I don't know, 60 bucks or something. But then, like the shoes, the sneakers. But then, but even before he was.
- [09:14]
Matt
President, which you look great in those by the way.
- [09:17]
Joel
Even before he was president, like the, like the Trump steaks and the vodka, like this is something that he does. And so on one hand it's just, it's more of the same. I will say I was shocked to see the pastor that gave one of the benedictions at the end of the inaugural address or whatever. He launched a meme coin. Oh, really? Yes.
- [09:36]
Matt
I didn't see that.
- [09:37]
Joel
That is incredibly disheartening. Like, like that makes me angry. This is like a pastor, someone who's supposed to be forsaking worldly riches in a self sacrificial way to serve other people. And man, talk about like that made me really upset when I, when I heard that. It just feels so counter to what someone who is in ministry or someone who's a pastor that they should be doing.
- [09:58]
Matt
Does this mean we're canceling the launch of our meme coin that we had planned?
- [10:01]
Joel
No, no, no. We're not administrative. We can do it.
- [10:04]
Matt
We can do it.
- [10:04]
Joel
Okay. Something else though that struck me was the mandate for government workers to return to the office. Dude. Working from home. So 2020, returning to the office. RTO. That's the name of the game now. And I will say there's evidence that working from home, at least at the federal level, hasn't had great results that is costing the government, therefore us as taxpayers, billions of dollars.
- [10:27]
Matt
Yeah. There was a report issued kind of towards the end of last year, I think from one of the senator's offices that headline how much less productive certain government agencies and certain individuals have been and just how costly that's become.
- [10:39]
Joel
Yeah, yeah, we're talking especially like given all the office space that is sitting empty like that's real estate, is incredibly expensive and similar to the companies who have issued return to office orders. I think the government, they may not be crying you a river if you end up quitting over this. It appears that increased efficiency at the office and a trimmer payroll are simultaneous goals. So we think that the smartest employers out there who are looking to retain top notch talent will opt for more of a hybrid or more of a flex approach where they do trust their great employees to do their job wherever they are. But I do think as an employee, you might have to make a difficult choice if going back into the office, let's say five days a week, if that's going to be too tough of a pill to swallow. I think eventually it'll settle out somewhere in the middle. Because I think there had to be.
- [11:24]
Matt
This sort of hard.
- [11:25]
Joel
Correct. Right. Like we, the pendulum swung so far to one side and now I think it's almost having to swing hard in the other direction in order to, I don't know, for employees, for employers to communicate to employees that they're taking this a bit more seriously. But I think it'll eventually settle somewhere in the middle.
- [11:40]
Matt
And so much depends on the industry. Right. And it depends on specific employees too, like how long have they been with the company, how well do they know the task, how well are they able to communicate with people who are also working remotely? But I guess on the flip side of this, this could impact the government's ability to hire some of the top talent. If some of that top talent says, yeah, I'm not coming to the office five days a week, I'm not doing that. That DC hellish DC commute that, that I'm imagining is pretty rough depending on where you live and how far your commute is. But I do think that the RTO trend is only going to increase in the coming months and that's going to impact a lot of how to money listeners if their employer is kind of keen on pulling that off too. All right, Matt, something else that everyone might want to consider is rethinking their emergency fund, how much money they have stored up in their high Yield savings account. MarketWatch pointed this out that changing economic realities might mean that you don't have enough money saved up in your bank account. You might not have enough liquidity. And instead of the traditional three to six months that is typically recommended, some folks are opting to increase the amount of money they have on hand to nine months or even more. And that is, I think, a potentially smart move, specifically if your industry or your particular job is less stable. Right. So, yeah, if you're in a position that feels a little more precarious, like I would want to have more cash on hand, that seems like a smart move. The average duration of unemployment has actually gone up as well, lasting on average five and a half months. So if you lose your job, you're talking almost six months to get the next one. So, yeah, if that's the case, three months certainly doesn't seem like quite enough. I guess I kind of land somewhere in the middle on this though, Matt. I think that telling people to save up nine plus months worth of expenses, that can feel a little demoralizing because it's, it's really hard to do and how much you actually need. It really does depend on a variety of factors like are you a two income household, do you have a bare bones budget that you could implement immediately upon the loss of a job? And how much would that actually save you? Because if you're willing to do that, hey, what looks like three months worth of normal expenses could be five months worth of bare bones budget expenses. And ultimately I think having six months worth of any fund, it's better than having three. And some folks might understandably need or want to save even more. And I think if you do experience a job loss, you are going to be thankful that you thought ahead of time that you were planning and that you had a little bit extra on hand.
- [14:10]
Joel
That's true. Yeah. And as we talked with Katie north about this past Wednesday about sabbaticals, you might be able to parlay some of those additional funds into a sabbatical where you're being a little more introspective there with your time off.
- [14:21]
Matt
Losing your job means a severance if you've got plenty of savings on hand. And then three, five, six months worth of severance, it's like, yeah, so okay.
- [14:30]
Joel
The unemployment rate is low, but that doesn't mean that the job market is booming for job seekers out there or that hunting for a new gig is easy. This is a part of why it takes longer for most average job seekers to find a new gig. And part of the difficulty is navigating a slew of job postings online, many of which are fake. So hiring Platform Greenhouse, they just released an analysis of online job listings and they found that one in five are fake listings. And it's not that the listing itself is an actual scam, but that there was never actually any hiring activity for that listed job. And so you might be wondering why a company would do such a thing. Why would they post a position that they don't actually intend to fill?
- [15:10]
Matt
It does seem silly.
- [15:11]
Joel
Well, it could be. There's speculation that could be in an attempt to project growth that's not actually happening. Evidently some companies are using it as sort of like a fishing line that they keep out permanently in hopes of catching a rare talent.
- [15:25]
Matt
But still, what would like a rare fish be? Matt, if you caught a rare fish just leaving that line out like a narwhal.
- [15:31]
Joel
I don't know. That's a whale though, right? Yeah. But still, it doesn't make it any easier for hard to reel that who are looking for work. It's something to be aware of that you think it's gonna be easier than you Think in part I think because there are. So it's like, oh, everywhere I look there's a job listing.
- [15:46]
Matt
The Internet makes job hunting easy, right?
- [15:48]
Joel
It makes it look so simple and jobs appear to be plentiful, but that is not the case.
- [15:54]
Matt
Yeah, I think just kind of perusing some of those job boards. It's not that you can't find a job online or that those job listings aren't helpful and can't put you in the right direction, can't get you at least on the right trail, on the right scent. But I think it can get your hopes up when you see a position that looks awesome and it looks like it pays well and then you never hear back upon reaching out or applying. That's just kind of the reality of you have to kind of like cast your net wide on the Internet and you're just hoping for someone to respond on the other end. Cnet, Matt, you mentioned that, that these listings are not scams. Well, CNET just had a piece about job scams and they're coming in to folks via text message.
- [16:29]
Joel
Like actual job scams?
- [16:30]
Matt
Yeah, yeah, gotcha. These are just fake, the ones you talked about, but now we're talking about actual scammy jobs. The what's in these text messages that the person who's sending you the message pretends to be a recruiter who has a solid work from home job. And hey, maybe your employer just said you gotta come back to the office four days a week and you're like wait a second, I don't know, take.
- [16:49]
Joel
Me back to 2020.
- [16:50]
Matt
Yeah, I like this work from home job that this person's texting me about. But what they're trying to get you to do is to pay them for like a starter kit. Hey, you got this awesome job but we have to mail you a computer and stuff like that. So you need to send us like 7 or 800 bucks. That's going to get this ball rolling. Well, the truth is no legitimate employer needs money from you up front. So be careful. Especially if you're getting any text message about employment, it is almost inevitably a scam. Most employers are going to reach out via email, right? It's like when the irs, IRS ain't going to text you either. So be careful the medium that's being used. I think this is also just a good time not to issue a reminder that the majority of jobs come through a good old fashioned networking. Now, it's not that online job hunting is a complete waste of time. Again, I think it can put you on the right scent, but we're still talking about 80%, only 80% of those listings being legit. And we're talking about the potential for scams as well. So don't neglect the tried and true method that has worked for decades. It really does so much of the time come down to who you know, keeping that network active, staying in touch with people who might be consequential in your career moving forward.
- [17:57]
Joel
That's right, man. And speaking of networking, reminds me of friend of the show Jordan Harbinger, who always talks about digging the well before.
- [18:03]
Matt
You need it, before you're thirsty, Matt, before you're thirsty.
- [18:05]
Joel
But we've got more to get to. We're going to talk about the direction that rents have been trending over the past year. We'll get to that and more right after this Debt payoff is the number one financial goal that Americans have for 2025. I love seeing that because debt, especially consumer debt, it can be such a bummer. It not only puts you in a precarious financial situation, the stress that it creates, it can be overwhelming. It impacts every other aspect of your life. That's why Navy Federal Credit Union is here to help you. They have all the financial tools and resources you need to dominate debt. Right now. They offer a 0% intro APR on credit card balance transfers for 12 months.
- [18:48]
Matt
That's a pretty sweet offer. You can also get $250 when you spend $2,500 in your first 90 days on a cash rewards or cash rewards plus credit card. Visit Navy federal.org to start dominating debt. Navy Federal Credit Union members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. After the insure rate expires, variable APRs are 15.15% to 18% based on creditworthiness. Rates are subject to change. ATM fees for cash advances are up to $1 at non Navy Federal ATMs.
- [19:19]
Joel
A new year often feels like it offers a chance to spark real change. But resolutions can feel daunting, especially when they're important. Joel like creating a will or a trust. It may feel overwhelming, but you know it's about time you did it well. Trust and will they make creating your will easy. Like lounging on the couch easy. And you can get 10% off now@trustandwill.com how to money that's right.
- [19:42]
Matt
I created my will with trust and will. A task that sounds painstaking was actually quite pain free thanks to trust and will. The website is intuitive, it's easy to use. Plus the peace of mind from getting this done, it's invaluable valuable. The other cool thing is that Trust and Will is designed by attorneys, but it's customized by you. Each will or trust is state specific, legally valid and customized to your needs. Ensure your family and loved ones avoid lengthy, expensive legal proceedings or the state deciding what happens to your assets. Their simple step by step process guides you from start to finish, one question at a time. You can save your loved ones time and stress by having all your documents in one place with bank level encryption.
- [20:22]
Joel
Check one of your goals off early this year with Trust and will. Protect what matters most in minutes@trustandwill.com HowToMoney and get 10% off plus free shipping. That's 10% off and free shipping@trustandwill.com HowtoMoney so here on the podcast I know listeners have heard me talk about how I like to always have a big annual finance meeting with Kate right as we've wrapped up a great year as we are kicking off a new one. We are nerdy like that and each year is an opportunity to reflect and to plan for the future. Like setting career goals or making financial moves and most importantly, ensuring your family is always taken care of no matter what happens. Make this the year that you check life insurance off your list and protect your family's future. With policygenius you can find life insurance policies that start at just $292 per year for $1 million of coverage. Some options are 100% online and let you avoid unnecessary medical exams.
- [21:17]
Matt
Matt I just double checked our life insurance policies to make sure we're adequately covered. We are thankful for that. It's a good idea for everyone out there to do that, particularly if your family needs have changed recently.
- [21:29]
Joel
Right?
- [21:29]
Matt
You want to ensure that you have life insurance to cover loved ones expenses if something happens to you. And policy genius makes a potentially onerous task easy as pie.
- [21:40]
Joel
Secure your families tomorrow so you can have peace of mind. Today. Head to policygenius.com to get your free life insurance quotes. See how much you could save. That's policygenius.com hey there, this is Matt and Joel.
- [21:53]
Matt
We're from how to Money.
- [21:54]
Joel
That's right.
- [21:55]
Matt
Yeah.
- [21:55]
Joel
If you've been listening to our show, then you know how much we love to travel, especially if it's somewhere out there in nature.
- [22:00]
Matt
Joel that's right Matt. You had a great trip out to the Blue Ridge Mountains in Georgia this past fall. Yeah, I did.
- [22:05]
Joel
It was a quick weekend getaway with a fam, but we had an amazing time. We Found this incredible cabin on Airbnb right on the river. The water, it was so clean and clear. The kids were out there building a little peninsula out into the river. I actually did a few morning cold plunges out there, which the kids definitely passed on. But we hiked together during the day, sat by the fire pit at night, made s'mores. It was beautiful, man.
- [22:27]
Matt
Only I had been invited. You know, whenever I'm traveling and find the perfect place to stay on Airbnb, I always think of what a smart idea it is to become a host. You let someone else enjoy all the wonderful parts of your home while you're not using it, and it's a great way to make some extra money. That's right.
- [22:41]
Joel
And even if you're not traveling but have a spare bedroom sitting empty, you can also host guests in that extra room. It's easy to do and a great way to make the most of your home.
- [22:51]
Matt
And now, with the co host feature, Airbnb gives you access to a network of high quality local co hosts who can help take care of your home and guests when you're not there. They manage reservations and provide on site support when you can't be there. Find a co host@airbnb.com we are back. Now it's time, as always, to get to the ludicrous headline of the week. This one comes from the Washington post and the WaPo. Yeah, listener Kathy posted this in it's.
- [23:20]
Joel
Not a fancy neighborhood, It's a media organization.
- [23:23]
Matt
It does sound like a fancy neighborhood. Listener Kathy posted this in the how to Money Facebook group. And if you're not a member of the how to Money Facebook group, go check it out. Because 12,000 plus members helping each other out with their personal finances. But the title of this article was Toys are a Scam. Gets right to the point. And maybe we're saying this too late, Matt.
- [23:43]
Joel
I like that kind of headline.
- [23:45]
Matt
Maybe we're covering this after the fact because Christmas was, after all, about a month ago.
- [23:50]
Joel
Well, I will say we had a. We talked. We had a similar story to this prior to, like leading up to Christmas. We're giving folks a warning, like, give them a little heads up. This isn't news to us.
- [23:59]
Matt
Well, and you and I, we talked about, like, some of the changes we were making to what we were buying our kids this Christmas because of the toy overload. Right. But the gist of this article is that kids ask for toys, we buy them, and then those toys don't get played with very much. Classic. And the author they actually make a distinction, which I appreciated, between, like, bikes and games and art supplies versus basically all the other toys out there. Matt. I think even my kids got obsessed for. For a minute with those surprise toys. It was like, a little. I mean, it's just plastic crap. And then they're inside of, like, a ball or whatever, and you open it up and you have no idea what's going to be inside. But it's one of, like, four different things. It's like a puppy dog stuffed animal or something like that. Right. Oh, where do you buy these toys? Target, I guess.
- [24:41]
Joel
Okay.
- [24:42]
Matt
My parents got some of these for them. They kind of fed into the.
- [24:45]
Joel
It's more about the thrill of hunt, right?
- [24:47]
Matt
Yeah, exactly.
- [24:48]
Joel
As opposed to, like.
- [24:49]
Matt
But that thing gets tossed aside, never gets played with again. So I've been there as a parent, and as much as my kids don't want to hear it, I think there is a lot of truth to the claim that toys are a scam. I think the author's onto something here. My kids have too many toys, and some they play with religiously, but others get used rarely, if ever. And I bet. I think actually now is the time to talk about this, because my guess is that every parent out there can see this clearly right now. Matt, we got a delivery of Big bookshelf the other day.
- [25:19]
Joel
Oh.
- [25:19]
Matt
And do you know how many hours my kids played with the cardboard dude that the bookshelf came in?
- [25:26]
Joel
It's classic.
- [25:27]
Matt
It's amazing to watch.
- [25:29]
Joel
Yeah. Like, it's almost like a meme from the 90s or something like that. But, like, it's so true, the fact that even the toys that they receive, oftentimes it's like, whoa, what can we do with this box? Or, oh, the bubble wrap. Like, the amount of time my kids play popping the little bubble wrap, which, honestly is rarer and rarer now because normally now it's just like the big air pockets.
- [25:48]
Matt
Yeah.
- [25:48]
Joel
Which sounds like a shotgun going off inside the house versus, like, the little. Yeah, the small ones. But I think a solution could be. It's obviously hard to get your kids to want less stuff, but I do think that the ads that they see certainly is going to influence what they want. Like, we are all in a better place now, I think, than we were when cable was dominant. Like, do you remember the constant stream of toy ads when we were kids?
- [26:13]
Matt
My parents remember it.
- [26:14]
Joel
How would I have ever known about Hungry Hungry Hippos if I hadn't seen those kids playing with it on the tv? There are fortunately Fewer commercials on streaming. And oftentimes it's not for kids toys either. It's like for perfume. And we talked about this, how I, like, changed my tune on going with the lower cost streaming plan, letting, like, the ability to expose them to advertising something, to inoculate them, and for that to be a launching off point for us to have these conversations. And I love, too, that it's not toys, because that would honestly be a little bit trickier. As opposed to ads that they think are terrible and that they think are so dumb. Like, when the perfume and the cologne ads come on, they, like, roll their eyes, they make barfing noises.
- [26:53]
Matt
Oh, they are the worst. They're the worst. It's like Katy Perry on Mars or something.
- [26:56]
Joel
They're confused because they're like, well, how does that. How's that supposed to sell a perfume? And it's like, well, you can't show a smell. And so they. What they're trying to do is show you that this is.
- [27:05]
Matt
Create a feeling. Yeah.
- [27:06]
Joel
You could be this cool or this is the, the kind of life that you could. Oh, you would have this many friends and you'd be dancing at night and driving in this car, running along this beach with the moon, you know, all the things that they show. And it's a great way for us to have these kind of conversations. But I totally agree. It's the things that spur creativity and additional things as opposed to the toys being an end in and of themselves. Like, it makes me think of our. My youngest, my son. You know what his favorite thing to do is? Like, right now it's freezing outside. And so we've been reading a lot of books, but aside from that, like, when we go outside, what he loves to do is find scraps of wood that the builders, that the framers have left all around the house. And he takes those pieces of wood, he's got a little whittling knife, and he carves them into swords. So he's got a secret stash of wooden swords, stabs and neighbors, daggers, knives. And you know what he wants? He doesn't want toys. He wants me to, like, join him in this creative world that he's created. Like, that is so much fun. He's not playing with half the stuff.
- [28:00]
Matt
Yeah.
- [28:00]
Joel
That we would have gotten for him at Christmas, but we actually didn't because we scaled back because we did have this conversation.
- [28:05]
Matt
Yeah.
- [28:05]
Joel
At a time when we're like, hey, we're gonna do the switch, the Nintendo Switch instead.
- [28:09]
Matt
And that's why we talked about this beforehand. But it's actually worked out really well. Like, you and I both got a Nintendo Switch for the kids, and now they've announced the Nintendo Switch 2. And I'm totally fine with the fact that we'll have the one for many years and not be upgrading.
- [28:21]
Joel
Well, I think we also knew that it was coming, which is why they were on sale with a bundle with Mario Kart 8, you know?
- [28:26]
Matt
Well, and that has been kind of a fun way to do things together as a family. It's almost like a board game. A digital version of a board game.
- [28:33]
Joel
Totally.
- [28:33]
Matt
And so it's better than watching tv, I think. But, yeah, we also did that in an attempt to not just add a bunch of random crap to our households. And so the bigger present made a big difference. And you. Sacred splash. Yeah. You guys got Ariel silks for your daughter Evie recently.
- [28:52]
Joel
Oh, yeah.
- [28:52]
Matt
And you guys have been playing on that stuff.
- [28:55]
Joel
They love that. Yeah, dude. Well, here's what's awesome as well. Talk about teaching kids the value of a dollar. We didn't buy that for them. The kids all chipped in together.
- [29:03]
Matt
Oh, really?
- [29:03]
Joel
And we said, hey, you know, by the time Christmas rolls around, this is something that we consider buying for y'all. They wanted it now. And so they all. They got together and conspired. They didn't conspire, but they're like, hey, okay, I'm willing to put this much towards it. And so I don't think Westy. I don't think he contributed any money, but the girls, they all pitched in.
- [29:20]
Matt
Does that mean he doesn't get to use them?
- [29:21]
Joel
He actually doesn't use them. He's not as interested. He's like, I don't understand why these pieces of cloth hanging from the ceiling, why that's so much fun. But, yeah, when your girls came over.
- [29:31]
Matt
Man, they played on it for hours.
- [29:33]
Joel
Literally for hours. It's so much fun. And again, it leads to other activities and just leads to healthier kind of lifestyle as well. You know, just like y'all. With rock climbing, like, y'all have gotten into that more. Like, it's something that leads to something else. Additional skills, the building of strength and character. You know, like all these awesome sort of side effects as opposed to just like, vegging out and playing with a toy.
- [29:53]
Matt
Yeah. And I think maybe as a society, we've kind of made it seem like, oh, you show your kids that you love them if you buy them plastic stuff. I think it's important for us to push back on that. And I think it's really important to have a well conceived family approach to toy accumulation. Right. And to communicate that in a kind and understandable way to your kids. So that when the topic comes up, they understand because they might see that catalog in the mail, point to it, circle stuff in it, and be like, I want this giant piece of plastic. And it's not that you will never buy them a toy ever, but I think kind of have an ethos about how much you do allow into your house. One, it could save you money, but to it can like prevent you from pulling your hair out because that stuff gets littered all over the floor too.
- [30:36]
Joel
Totally. Okay. Kiosks, Joel. They are becoming the norm for ordering food, at least at some fast food chains. I'm thinking of McDonald's in particular, shake Shack. They're actually leaning into kiosk as well. But interestingly enough, it turns out it's not about reducing employee headcount in order to save on. On labor costs.
- [30:56]
Matt
Oh, that's the knee jerk reaction people have. It's like, oh, they're just trying to cut, cut staff.
- [30:59]
Joel
We're gonna. Yeah, it's all about the mechanization and robots everywhere. No, these restaurants, they seem to be keeping all their employees. They're just redirecting them to other tasks. The reason that the kiosks and the screens are all there is because it's about selling you more food. Cnn, they highlighted the upselling that's occurring at these kiosks. And you got, you know, maybe a minimum wage worker, that person there, brand new on the job, they might forget to ask you to supersize your meal. But guess what?
- [31:26]
Matt
Especially if it's a long line.
- [31:27]
Joel
That's true. A computer, it never forgets. Which it kind of surprises me because you think, I would think smiling face and get interaction with a guest there at the store, that might lead to me maybe supersizing it. But I guess again, maybe the problem is, is you got folks who don't care whether or not you supersize it. Right. They're just there earning a paycheck and there's a lot of money to be made when it comes to some of that upselling that takes place.
- [31:51]
Matt
We're not living in those Morgan Spurlock supersize me days anymore. Matt. That still was like the game changing documentary of our time, I feel like. But he would go to a lot of restaurants and they didn't ask him to supersize.
- [32:02]
Joel
Which evidently the whole documentary was erroneous because of the. The fact it came out after the fact that he Was an alcoholic. When he went into the doctor, he's just like, oh, my gosh, the toll this is taking on your liver. And turns out he was like, could.
- [32:16]
Matt
Have been the 15 gin and tonics that was doing that. Yeah, that's right. Well, I don't really like those kiosks either. I feel like they are. Always takes me a minute to navigate to what I'm trying to get. I would rather. I'm old school, Matt. I'd rather order with a actual human being. It's just becoming less regular at some of these restaurants. But, hey, I'm not really going to McDonald's anyway, so. But just a word of the wise for everyone else out there. Don't let the computer make you spend more money. While we're talking about food and spending money, Matt, Americans are tipping less than they have in recent years. Prices have, yes, risen significantly, particularly at restaurants. And folks are being less generous with their servers because of it. Like, as the price tag goes up on their meal at whatever restaurant they're eating at, they're saying, hmm, I just don't feel like I can tip as much because of that. And it's true. Yes, eating out is. Is quite expensive. When you look at the inflation charts, it's become far more expensive than eating out at home. Like, the rate of inflation on food at the grocery store versus food at restaurants has grown. Right. So. So that the prices are climbing faster, essentially, when you eat out. And that can be frustrating. Right, Matt? I think I would personally opt for the European model if given a choice. I think you prefer the tipping model, is that right?
- [33:27]
Joel
Yeah, I don't really have an opinion right now.
- [33:29]
Matt
Okay, well, it's also gotten.
- [33:31]
Joel
You want to take the Steve Buscemi Reservoir Dog?
- [33:35]
Matt
Well, it's gotten more confusing as some restaurants have implemented mandatory fees. Then people are like, well, where are those fees going? Is this the tip or is this just going to the owners of the restaurant? So I think as a consumer, it's become more difficult to know how much to tip because of some of those ancillary fees as well. I think it's important to ask, right. If you see a fee that you don't understand and also to not take your frustration out on your server by being a bad tipper. And I think the ultimate solution for a lot of people is going to be to eat out less so that you can still tip reasonably when you do go out. Eating out less is obviously going to save you a lot of money. Eating more meals at home, but tipping less. Yeah. Might Be a way to cut down your eating out budget, but it's not a good one.
- [34:19]
Joel
That's right. Let's talk about housing. Joel. Folks say that one of the best things about owning your house as opposed to renting is that your payment, it stays the same while rents continually increase. But that's only kind of true and it's actually not really, it's not as true as of late. While folks who bought between, let's say the Great Recession, so 2009 up to about 20, 23, you know, maybe they find themselves in a decent spot. The economics of homeownership are changing. Even if you bought at a good price with a reasonable rate, and that's because insurance and taxes have been rising really quickly. Today, a third of the mortgage payment goes towards those two line items, which is a record amount. And for almost 10% of homeowners, they make up more than half of your mortgage payment.
- [35:04]
Matt
That's crazy.
- [35:04]
Joel
That's insane. It means your annual escrow notice is more frightening than ever. And some homeowners are having a tough time dealing with significant payment increases. And so we bring this up to highlight that there's no silver bullet here, as opposed to maybe loosening some building regulations to increase the supply, but challenge property tax increases if they are out of line. If that's something that you've seen. We've mentioned ownwell before, more of an automated service, they take a cut of the amount that they're able to reduce your property tax increase.
- [35:36]
Matt
Yeah, but only if they succeed. So if they fail, you don't pay.
- [35:38]
Joel
Them in time, you don't pay money up front, shop around for your homeowners insurance. And I think this used to be something that maybe was a little bit more of like a cheap guy or a frugal guy thing to do, but like self insure more. Raise your deductible so that you're not as reliant on your insurance when something happens to your house. Because you're going to save money immediately now because you're going to see your premiums decrease when you increase your deductible. But over time because you are less reliant on your insurance, it means you're less likely to use it, which means you're not going to get booted, not booted off your insurance, but they're not going to jack your rates up to sky high levels.
- [36:13]
Matt
Yeah. And I think part of the reason that we've seen increases to the extent that we have is just inflation in general. Right. Rising home prices, rising costs of Building like that means that if something does happen in your home, the insurer is going to be out more money. So hey, they've got to cover that in premium increases. But it's also natural disasters in parts of the country, and particularly thinking about places like Florida and California, but that impacts people not just in those states, but really across the country. As insurers sometimes disperse the pain a little more widely. It's become really tough out there for homeowners from an insurance expense in the last couple of years in particular. And not to go back to the well on this too much, Matt, but homeownership is often seen as the number one way to build wealth. Like, there are a lot of people there who truly believe that owning a home is their best way to achieve the American dream and to be able to retire successfully. And when you look at the numbers, it does kind of sort of look like that, right. That owning the home is what contributes to more greater levels of financial independence. Homeowners do have a much greater net worth than renters, but it's really just not that simple. Right. When it comes down to it, homeownership is not the key to building wealth. Investing in general is, which in part.
- [37:29]
Joel
Having a mortgage payment forces you to do. It's that forced method of savings. Sure.
- [37:33]
Matt
Yeah. But if you had taken the additional money and invested it instead, you might have come out ahead over the years.
- [37:39]
Joel
Better investments out there, for sure.
- [37:41]
Matt
Yeah. But case in point here, I think this actually kind of highlights the fact that renting might make more sense than buying. For a lot of people, rents are actually down over the past 12 months. Most people think again, rents go up year after year. And especially during COVID and stuff like that, it felt like rents were going up at an insane pace because they were. Well, that has not just slowed down, but rent growth is actually declining. So you might be able to get a better deal on the apartment or the home that you're renting next month or next year. And you know, buying can be a solid personal decision and a reasonable financial one, if that's what you're into. It has provided outsized gains at certain points in time, but you got to contend with the trade offs of homeownership as well. Home maintenance, for instance, Matt, averages something like $500 a month, according to Zillow. You got to contend with all the costs of homeownership before taking the plunge. Insurance, right, maintenance, taxes, all that stuff all skyrocket, skyrocketing quickly impacting homeowners. Renting might not seem quite as bad when you take all those costs into account, and you'll have more financial flexibility and room to invest if you wait a little longer. I don't want to like dissuade everyone and say homeownership bad, don't do it, but it's just not as simple as a lot of people have made it out to be either.
- [38:57]
Joel
That's true. Yeah. And you can especially get a deal if you are looking at an apartment which has seen the largest declines over the past 12 months. We've had a flurry of newsletter signups, Joel, and so we want to give a quick referral shout out to Joanna V. As well as H. Whitworth for recommending the How To Money newsletter to a bunch of their friends. And you can find the how to Money newsletter over@how tomoney.com that's right, you guessed it, newsletter. But we will see you back here on Monday with a fresh Ask how to Money episode and we hope that everyone has a fantastic weekend buddy. Until next time.
- [39:32]
Matt
Best friends out.
- [39:33]
Joel
Best friends out.
- [39:49]
Matt
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