Friday Flight - Underwater Autos, Freelancing FTW, & E-Fund Idiocy #1044

Summary

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How to Money – Friday Flight: Underwater Autos, Freelancing FTW, & E-Fund Idiocy

Podcast: How to Money
Hosts: Joel & Matt (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: #1044
Date: October 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively Friday Flight, Joel and Matt dive into this week's hot financial stories and trends, taking on everything from the rising costs of streaming services and gym subscriptions, to the perilous trend of trading in cars with negative equity. The hosts also highlight the growing appeal of freelancing and contract work in the evolving job market, while dissecting influencer Grant Cardone's controversial take on emergency funds. Finally, the show wraps up with discussions about prescription drug savings (and a new “Trump RX” website!), the FDA’s stance on pharma ads, and the value of reliable car insurance. True to form, Joel and Matt blend sharp analysis with banter and practical advice for everyday listeners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown & The Emergency Fund Case

• [02:07] Matt flags the ongoing government shutdown (day 3 at time of recording), discussing its wide-ranging ripple effect, especially for furloughed workers.
• The hosts reflect on the psychological and financial stress these shutdowns cause:
  Joel: “...the more money you have in savings, there's still the psychological impact and the maybe frustration ... but my heart goes out to all you folks out there who are having a tough time.” [03:04]
• This segues into the first big plug of the day for having an emergency fund, which will carry through the episode.

2. Streaming Services, Subscription Creep, and Cost Control

• [05:13] Joel and Matt weigh in on the relentless wave of streaming price increases (Apple TV+, Disney+, Hulu, Netflix), noting that most consumers passively accept these hikes.
• Joel notes: “Streaming is at the very top of non-essential priorities in people's budgets ... The streaming companies know this and they're taking full advantage.” [06:17]
• [08:03] Matt proposes a “one in, one out” approach to subscriptions—a tactic borrowed from wardrobe management, to avoid subscription overload.
• Peloton, Gyms, and Cost-Per-Use:
  Joel describes how a $5 Peloton membership hike prompted his household to consider canceling:
  Joel: “...I'm not a frog in the boiling water. At some point, we're jumping out.” [09:54]

3. Car Ownership: Negative Equity & Longevity

• [11:27] Matt warns about one of the “worst financial moves” — trading in a car with negative equity. Over 25% of trade-ins now involve owners owing more than their vehicle’s value, often by thousands.
• Joel: “The average underwater amount is over $6,000 ... I was talking to somebody this week and they had a friend who traded in a car that was like $30,000 underwater ... punch me in the face when I hear stuff like that.” [11:59–12:06]
• Key Causes: Lengthy loans (up to 84 months) and the ever-escalating price of vehicles.
• Solution:
  Matt: “No car loan, but I know some folks ... aren't in that situation. Just make sure you don't take out a loan longer than 48 months, ideally 42 or less.” [13:12]
• Longevity Leaders: IC Cars’ list of vehicles most likely to last 250k+ miles.
  “Toyota's were like by a long shot, crushing.” [14:22]
  Tesla’s emergence is noted as a surprise.

4. Car Insurance: Frugality vs. Cheapness

• [16:06] Matt stresses that rock-bottom price shouldn't be the only car insurance shopping factor: “Getting the lowest possible price, it's not always the goal ... we want to get value for the money that we're paying.”
• Top claim-payers: Amica, USAA, Erie (limited to 10 states).
• Joel: Beware fly-by-night insurers: “...it's best to get that policy from a company who reliably pays out claims.” [17:08]

5. The Freelancing Advantage in Today’s Job Market

• [18:00] Matt and Joel argue that freelancing or contract work can help jobseekers, especially in a shaky market.
• Matt: “Hiring someone on a contract basis ... can be easier for employers. Especially with business uncertainty.” [18:43]
• Freelance gigs can lead to FT positions and often have higher hourly rates (to offset fewer benefits).
• Side Hustle Scams:
  The hosts warn about side hustle scams, emphasizing never to pay upfront costs or trust offers requiring “training fees”—even LinkedIn isn’t immune.
  “Don't ever sign up for a side hustle that comes with upfront costs. That is a massive red flag.” [21:15]

6. Debunking the “E-Fund Idiocy” – Emergency Funds Under Attack

• [25:26] Ludicrous Headline of the Week: Grant Cardone declares “emergency savings a bank myth.”
• Joel reacts:
  “...saving money is a trick the banks are playing on us. And that going to work ... is the key to getting by if stuff hits the fan. That's clearly—” [26:53]
• Matt’s rebuttal:
  “What about if you can't work? Sometimes that's why you need an emergency fund.” [26:53]
• The hosts clarify a balanced position: Yes, don’t over-park in savings and miss out on investing, but everyone needs accessible emergency cash.
• “It's not about the money. It's about the relief. It's about the peace.” [30:48]
• Updated Target: The “minimum viable emergency fund” with inflation is now $3,045. [28:43]
• Building it: Set a specific goal and post it where you’ll see it daily (thanks to Katie Milkman’s behavioral science tips).

7. Workplace Emergency Fund Benefits & Financial Education

• [32:02] Firms like SecureSave now help employers match emergency fund contributions, not just retirement.
• More employees expect financial advice and benefits at work—reflective of today’s increased complexity in personal finance.
• "There's overload for people trying to figure out their finances. And so... we want to simplify things and help folks make those most important decisions." [34:45]

8. Prescription Drugs: The “Trump RX” vs. Mark Cuban’s Capitalist Model

• [35:07] Joel introduces TrumpRx.com—the White House’s new discount drug site (details still vague; born out of tariff deal with Pfizer).
• Matt highlights Mark Cuban’s Cost Plus Drugs as a (preferred) competitor:
  “The best part is that [Cost Plus Drugs] was launched by an individual... not by the federal government. And that's the problem. That's what rubs me the wrong way about going like, do I want to see lower drug prices? ... Absolutely. But how we get there matters so much.” [36:59]
• The debate is less about prices and more about the potential pitfalls of top-down government solutions.

9. FDA & Pharma Ads: Curtailment on the Horizon?

• [37:31] The FDA plans to step up oversight of truth in pharma advertising (but not to ban ads outright).
• Only the US and New Zealand allow direct-to-consumer pharma TV ads.
  Matt: "Where do you draw the line when it comes to what you're gonna allow your government to decide for you?" [38:32]
• Joel notes, "Some people are swayed... they go to their doctor's office and say, 'Hey, I know this drug. I think—'" [40:32]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Negative Car Equity:
  “The average underwater amount is over $6,000 ... I had a friend who traded in a car that was like $30,000 underwater ... punch me in the face when I hear stuff like that.” — Joel [11:59–12:06]

• On Emergency Funds:
  “It's not about the money. It's about the relief. It's about the peace.” — Matt [30:48]

• On Streaming Overload:
  “Just your credit card bill ... You are out the money, and you don't realize how many of these that you've accumulated. There's no physical, tangible response mechanism that's telling you, oh, you have too many of these.” — Matt [08:56–08:57]

• On Freelancing:
  “Contract work is different than signing up for a side hustle ... Another problem though that we're seeing is a rise in side hustle scams.” — Joel [20:35]

• On Prescription Drug Pricing:
  “Do I want to see lower drug prices? ... Absolutely. But how we get there matters so much.” — Matt [36:59]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:07 – Government shutdown realities and the case for emergency funds
• 05:13 – Streaming service price hikes; value vs. cost
• 09:47 – Peloton and other subscriptions: Managing recurring expenses
• 11:27 – Car trade-ins: The dangers of negative equity
• 13:55 – Cars with best shot at 250k miles (Toyota/Tesla discussion)
• 16:06 – Car insurance: Value vs. price; claim reliability
• 18:00 – Freelancing as job market strategy
• 21:15 – Side hustle scam red flags
• 25:26 – Ludicrous financial headline: Grant Cardone and e-fund denial
• 28:43 – Updated emergency fund target: $3,045
• 32:02 – Employer emergency fund matching
• 35:07 – Trump RX vs. Cost Plus Drugs
• 37:31 – FDA to increase oversight on pharma ads

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Tone and Style

Joel and Matt deliver financial analysis with wit, warmth, and plenty of back-and-forth banter, making even complex or sobering topics accessible. They’re frank, practical, and periodically self-deprecating, always keeping “normal folks” at the center of the financial conversation.

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Summary

This episode of How to Money offers a whirlwind but deeply practical look at today’s most pressing (and sometimes absurd) financial news, from keeping your car out of underwater debt to wising up about job opportunities and subscription creep. Woven throughout: the timeless wisdom and real-life necessity of an emergency fund, tackled with humor and bolstered by stats. As always, the hosts deliver a refreshing mix of helpful advice, skepticism of financial fads, and encouragement for smart, thoughtful money moves in a complicated world.

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Transcript

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

Joel and Matt from how to Money. I was just in Seattle, Matt, and honestly, it's one of the greatest cities in the world, particularly in the summer. I went on this run by the water. We hopped a ferry across Puget Sound. Just an unforgettable trip.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

Find a co [e-mail] host run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

[Joel]

Learn how podcasts casting can help your business. Call 844-844-IHeart. Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I am Matt.

[Joel]

And today we're talking about underwater autos, freelancing for the WIN and E Fund id.

[Matt]

E Fund idiocy. That will most likely be our ludicrous headline of the week that we'll get to today.

[Joel]

Joel, we're going to take some other financial influencer to task on that one.

[Matt]

Indeed. Oh, we don't have anything here about the government shutdown. Maybe we should say something about that. How at least at the time of this recording, we are, I guess on day three of the government shutdown. Yeah. Toilets are perhaps overflowing in national parks. That's a terrible sight.

[Joel]

Or the toilets are closed completely. I went by our national battlefield park the other day to go for a run.

[Matt]

Did they?

[Joel]

Parking lot was Closed. The doors were closed. Nobody at home. I had to pee, so. Said to go on. I said to go on the trail. Like, I mean, don't wrap me up.

[Matt]

You should be doing that anyway.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Come on, you're out, like out there in the middle of the woods. It's not like you're at some highly congested.

[Joel]

You gotta do it very popular. You gotta do it in an unpopulated spot.

[Matt]

Do what you gotta do.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But I can't imagine this is gonna stretch on for all that long.

[Joel]

I hope not. Yeah. We have listeners and friends who are impacted by this and we're gonna talk about emergency funds later on. And I don't know, just makes me think of two things you can do about this.

[Matt]

One's the case for an emergency fund.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the more money you have in savings, the. There's still the psychological impact and the maybe frustration. Right. With the fact that it comes to this and that the looming government shutdown threat seems like it's perpetually upon us. It's not often we get to this point in the process, but sure, my heart goes out to all you folks out there who are having a tough.

[Matt]

Time, folks who are impacted, who are not getting paid, who are furloughed and still expected to come to work. Yeah. You know, I said I don't think it's going to stretch on, but it might because of the fact that folks are taking. They're using this, you know, they're trying to use this as like a political bludgeon. It makes me think of. So have you heard of. Have you heard of the economic problem? The chess piece fallacy?

[Joel]

It basically.

[Matt]

Adam Smith, I think, originally, but then Thomas Sowell popularized it, but talks about how if you're a policymaker, you think that, like, oh, well, we can just try this out. We can experiment. Maybe we'll end up breaking things and we'll learn from that. Which I understand when you are talking about like, well, in this case, so a chess piece, you're essentially the mastermind and you're moving the pieces around and you're playing this very elaborate game. But in this case, we're not talking about a game with no stakes. Like, we are talking about individuals lives, like people's livelihoods. And that's what. When people start to revolt, that's when.

[Joel]

People get upset if they have to miss a rent payment or can't afford to go on the trip that they planned on.

[Matt]

Absolutely.

[Joel]

Even just like putting food on the table.

[Matt]

So it has all these unintended Consequences that when you discount how it impacts individuals lives, there's a problem there essentially. So it also makes me think about like when Elon came in and bought bought Twitter slashed the workforce, broke code and like that is a very, maybe it shouldn't be a chess piece fallacy. It should be like the programmer fallacy because that's how programmers think. That's what I've been told. I'm not a programmer myself but you go in, you break things, you try things out and then you just put it back to get it back to working. But you can't necessarily. It's a lot harder to do that with individuals lives again when people are being impacted in a, in a significant way for some individuals out there.

[Joel]

Agreed. All right, shall we, boss? We get to the Friday flight.

[Matt]

Let's do it.

[Joel]

Sampling of stories we found interesting this week. Let's start off talking about streaming. Streaming price hikes are of course coming down the pike with regularity now. I think Apple TV plus. Is that what they call theirs, Matt? I think they've had a price hike every year for the last three years, which is interesting because I don't feel like they've got a lot of stuff for you to watch on, but they've.

[Matt]

Got the best stuff.

[Joel]

Do they?

[Matt]

Severance, okay. Severance was one.

[Joel]

I still haven't seen that one. You told me it's good.

[Matt]

It's so good.

[Joel]

It just feels like they have so little to interest me.

[Matt]

But if it really counts, the stuff that they do put out there, is that enough to win you over?

[Joel]

Yeah. That's why I feel like HBO has been so good at. Is like quality over quantity. Yes, exactly.

[Matt]

I think that's the model that Apple's trying to get with, trying to mimic. Although I will say at the end of the last season, it does leave some questions where you're just like, oh, come on, I don't want to put any spoilers.

[Joel]

Well, I'm guessing you've canceled.

[Matt]

Where are they going?

[Joel]

I'm guessing you've canceled Apple TV at this point because you're done with severance.

[Matt]

Duh.

[Joel]

And you'll sign up again later, of course. So the cheap prices of early streaming days, they're just in the rear view mirror completely at this point. Right.

[Matt]

Or you can just keep it around even when the season's over?

[Joel]

You can, but like way more than you need to. And so Disney just notified subscribers that they're going to be ramping up the prices of Disney Hulu plans and the price hikes are just going to keep coming. Why are they going to keep coming? Well, it's because consumers aren't really changing their habits. They're not canceling in the numbers that are impacting the streaming services to a meaningful degree. There was this new Credit Karma survey and it found that streaming is at the very top of non essential priorities in people's budgets in their lives. So it's this really sticky service that people aren't willing to do without. The streaming companies know this and they're taking full advantage. So I know that price hikes can be frustrating. People get that email and they're like, again, really, you're going to up the price and you haven't really added much more good stuff for me to check out. So. But I don't know, they just stay with it. Anyway, people take this lying down, it seems. I think there are some pros and cons of being out of the cable TV era. The early streaming days though, Matt, seemed to be the best of times. And now we're entering this, this period of time where streaming is more competitive, just as bad as cable in so many ways. And really the only way we as individuals can get the best, get the most bang for our buck is to I think, sign up for services when we're going to use them, cancel them when we're not, and just be more thoughtful in general about what we're subscribing to and when.

[Matt]

Totally, yes. And actually I just said that it's more competitive. It's actually less competitive because when it was more competitive when Netflix was the big player on the scene, when they. Do you remember back when they won their first Emmy or Golden Globe or. I don't know, it was just a massive deal. Like they swept the awards that year. It's like, oh, wow, they are a legitimate studio.

[Joel]

They're on the scene.

[Matt]

Yes. Yeah. And so back in those days when there was more competition, I think all of these streamers, well, they were willing to offer their services for a lot less as they're trying to gobble up market share. But it's less competitive now and they're all kind of sitting back, they're getting comfortable, they're trying to increase that profit share, increase those margins. But yeah, I think so we just canceled Disney, Disney plus which is what's kind of a mainstay for us because we wanted to watch something on Netflix. And so I was, what I said was that, hey, what we're going to do here, we're going to implement the classic one in, one out, like the trying to Manage your closet, like, manage.

[Joel]

Your wardrobe instead of just letting them proliferate.

[Matt]

Yeah, well, so you kind of have to do that with your closet. Right. Because you are literally going to run out of space. I think that's one of the. One of the benefits of doing that. Not just letting it get so overcrowded, but when it comes to these digital streaming services, these digital products, what is it cluttering up? Yeah, Nothing. You just continue.

[Joel]

Just your credit card bill.

[Matt]

Yes. Yeah. And so you are just. You are out the money, and you don't realize how many of these that you've accumulated. There's no physical, tangible response mechanism that's telling you, oh, you have too many of these. Typically, when it comes to digital stuff, like, the more options we have, the better. But in this case, yeah, I guess you could have them all, but it's going to cost you a ton. You truly are back into the cable bundling days when you were paying for everything. But that's what's so beautiful about streaming, is that you have the ability to very easily drop one of the streamers after a couple months. Once that. Once that shows over.

[Joel]

Well, Peloton just announced in the middle of the week as well, that they're increasing their prices for. For folks who have a bike and they like to work out on it or whatever. And I think I talked recently on the show not too long ago about buying a used Peloton for my wife who likes to jump on it and.

[Matt]

Do her thing, get her spin on.

[Joel]

Yeah. But they're going from 45 bucks a month to 50 bucks a month and 5 bucks.

[Matt]

Not a biggie.

[Joel]

Yeah, that's what you say. But, like, I'm not a frog in the boiling water. At some point, we're jumping out. And she was like. She came to me before I even said anything because I'm trying not to cause marital strife. And she was like, man, I'm so mad that they raised the price. I think I'm going to cancel for a while. And I was like.

[Matt]

Because she's, like, using it.

[Joel]

She's a member of another gym as well. It's like the price per use just went up. I'm not using it as much as I'd like to. Maybe hop on, still use it, but not pay for the service. I'm like, all right, fine with me.

[Matt]

Let's. So what's the benefit of the service? The fact that you've got, like, the screen and you got somebody encouraging you.

[Joel]

There'S music playing, the actual classes and the metrics and all that stuff.

[Matt]

There's got to be some online free YouTube channels.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

That you can pull up where you're listening to this very similar kind of deal without having to pay for it, right?

[Joel]

Well, yeah, maybe there's ads.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And then like I. There was a. We were doing some of the stretching classes that peloton offers, but I was like, I've got some great YouTube videos that are 100% free.

[Matt]

You don't need.

[Joel]

I mean, they're not live classes even. They're like pre recorded. We were just doing the same one over and over.

[Matt]

Yeah, well, that's the thing. Like now you've learned how to do it and you've internalized it. You don't need someone to guide you through that anymore. Like you are your own stretching Sherpa. Let's talk about owning a vehicle. Because trading in a car, it's fraught with so much financial peril. First of all, when you trade in, instead of selling that car outright to an individual, you risk getting a lot less than it's worth. Listing it yourself, putting in a bit more, a little bit more effort, taking the pictures, scheduling the meetups. It could net you thousands of additional dollars.

[Joel]

Doing the hassle thing, it's worth it.

[Matt]

It takes a little more work. But one of the worst financial moves, though, that you can make is to upgrade your ride and then trade in a car that you are underwater on. But Americans are doing it like it's their job. More than a quarter of trade ins today are being done by folks with negative equity who owe more on that car than it's actually worth, often by like many thousands of dollars, which is. Man, that's very frightening.

[Joel]

I think the average underwater amount is over $6,000 a lot.

[Matt]

That's a lot of money, man.

[Joel]

I was talking to somebody this week and they had a friend who traded in a car that was like 30 grand underwater, which.

[Matt]

That's insane.

[Joel]

Punch me in the face when I hear stuff like that. It makes me so sad.

[Matt]

It also isn't all that surprising given the price of vehicles. Right. Like you buy a brand new $80,000 nice, you know, luxury SUV. It's. It's probably not going to take that long for you if you have these payments that are stretched out in two, three years, like there's a very good chance that you're going to owe more on that thing than what it's actually worth.

[Joel]

You're exactly right. It's the cost of the car. But it's also, like you just mentioned the length of the car loan itself. And so you are making such a small dent in those first couple of years on the act, you're paying down the principal, but because you've stretched it out from like let's say 48 months, four years to something like 84 months, it's just taking so much longer. And if in three years time you get tired of that car and you're like, oh, it's time for me to upgrade, well, you've paid off so much less of that car and so you are of course going to have negative equity. And then you roll it into the next loan and you've got a giant loan. You're way upside down on the next car, only compounding the problem, making it worse.

[Matt]

So personally I'm going to say no car loan, but I know some folks are. They're not situation to where they've got the money on hand to be able to cover that.

[Joel]

You and I were typically fans of that. Right. Only buy a car if you have the cash or save up longer. And if you don't agree with us or yeah, you are in that position, just make sure you don't take out a loan that's longer than 48 months, ideally 42 or less. Because yeah, like driving a car with negative equity, it's not ideal, but it's not the worst thing in the world as long as you can hold on to it. If you really want to upgrade your ride, but you just aren't in the financial position to do that, truly wait longer. That is the solution here. And by the way, Matt IC Cars released its list of the vehicles that are most likely to last 250,000 miles. That's not sure that most people want to go there. I do. I'm planning on doing that with both the cars that we currently own.

[Matt]

I'm getting so close to 200k with the Honda.

[Joel]

Yeah, you're beyond us. I think we're at like 1:80 and my other car is like 171.

[Matt]

But we're like 192. Yeah, like, I don't want to put the miles on, but every time it gets closer, it just, it makes me so happy.

[Joel]

It's inevitable.

[Matt]

It's. It's gonna happen.

[Joel]

Okay. But you know, you know the, the brand that was number one on that list, It's. Oh yeah, Toyota. It. You don't even have to like read it like by a long shot.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel]

It's like they said that Toyotas are what, 3.7 times more likely to last 250,000 miles than any other car manufacturer. Lexus and Honda were right up there too. But it's like Toyota's were like by a long shot, crushing.

[Matt]

Yeah, Basically Toyota, Toyota and lexus are like 1 and 2. Then Honda and Acura makes Lexus. Yeah. And Honda makes Acura. So they're basically first, Toyota's first, Honda's second. You know what I thought was so fascinating? That was basically next on the list, Tesla. Which got me thinking, like it makes so much sense given the fact that there are so many fewer moving parts. It would not surprise me if over the years we see the share of Teslas that are on the road, but you are able to keep those around for much longer periods of time because of the fact that it's just an electric, an electric motor is a very efficient, durable, durable like mechanical device. And yeah, it makes all the, makes all the sense in the world. I thought it was very humorous to see that the cars that had a 0% chance, 250k is not surprising. It was like Jaguar, Mini Cooper, which, that one actually kind of surprised me. I thought, I thought Minis were a little more. They just seem to have such a fan base.

[Joel]

Yeah. You know, but I don't think it's because they're reliable.

[Matt]

I guess not.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And what I say, Jaguar, Mini and like Maserati or something like that.

[Joel]

Okay. Yeah. Which you've got a couple of those.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, a few of those. And I know, hey, I'm only going to hit 50,000 on those bad boys, right?

[Joel]

Exactly. Well, so I guess when it comes down to it, that's one of the key ingredients too in being able to hold on to your car longer, is to get something that's reliable. And you can go into Consumer Reports and you can dig in and see which makes and models and years have like the highest reliability ratings. Or you can even just take this generic IC car survey and be like, I guess I'm getting a Toyota or Honda.

[Matt]

Yeah, car reliability matters, dude. Let's talk about car insurance. So we obviously talk a lot about saving money, but getting the lowest possible price, it's not always the goal. We talk about frugal versus cheap moves when it comes to car insurance. We want to get value for the money that we're paying. And that is particularly true here. It doesn't matter how much you save on premiums if your insurance company actually won't pay your claim or if they're impossible to deal with if you can't get them to respond to any calls. Consumer Reports, they Released a list of insurance companies who have the best record of paying claims. And two were ones that we've talked about on the show before. Amica usaa. There's a new one that I never heard before. Erie E R I E. Yeah. And evidently they are pretty tops as well. Only downside, they're only in like 10 states in the country. But if you have access to Erie, check them. But otherwise shop around, get quotes, but specifically from these insurance companies that tend to rate more highly.

[Joel]

This is like an interesting one because you and I, we talk about shopping around insurance to save money and we think there's a lot of wisdom to that. But you also have to be careful because there are kind of like fly by night insurance companies. And then there are also. It's kind of like we answered a question recently about renting from one of those super cheap car rental companies, El Cheapo car rental. And you have to be careful in that. And the same thing is true, you know, with getting that insurance. It's like it's best to get that policy from a company who reliably pays out claims. That's kind of what consumer reports is getting out here. They rank them in order and it's worth taking a look and seeing where your insurance company falls because you might, you might be like, yeah, they're saving me a little bit of money, but if I do get into a situation where I have to file a claim, they're going to like put me through the wringer and that'll be super frustrating.

[Matt]

Yep. Car insurance seems like an industry, a market that needs disrupting. Let's talk about jobs. Because the market's been getting worse and worse, sadly. But we've got one piece of advice that might help folks out there who might be looking for another job or you know, like whether you are out of work or maybe you're still employed and you're looking for a new job. And that is that freelance and contract positions might make more sense than a traditional W2 full time employee, like employment job that you might be used to. And this is for a number of reasons. First of all, it might be easier to get in the door hiring someone on a contract basis. It can be easier for employers. I think this is especially true given the uncertainty that businesses have seen with terrorists.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

Right. Like that's one of the downsides is when you don't. If you can't look ahead to the future and forecast what the industry is going to look like, you're less prone to make investments in your Business which one of the biggest investments you can make is human capital.

[Joel]

A lot of those employers are saying, hey, we need to hire somebody. We're not offering the full time job.

[Matt]

Furlough on new hires.

[Joel]

It's a contract position because it's just, it's a less embedded relationship.

[Matt]

Yeah. So I totally get it from the employer's standpoint. But as an employee, for you out there looking to get a new job, it can often lead to that full time job, that full time work there in the future, you're getting your foot in the door, you're making these relationships. This is all clutch. And you can also potentially start at a higher hourly rate. A lot of times that's because you're not getting the other benefits. And so they trying to offset, they're trying to compensate a little bit for the fact that you're not getting some of these additional benefits. Yeah, we're talking health insurance as well. That's probably one of the biggest ones. It's not cheap. That being said, your increased pay, that higher hourly rate might be worth it. So makes me think something to consider.

[Joel]

One of our friends who got laid off and then he ended up getting contract work with the company that just let him go. And these, I mean he, because of that, his hourly rate went up meaningfully because he doesn't have access to those benefits. And so for a lot of folks, let's say, especially if you have health insurance, you can get coverage through a partner or something like that, maybe it's the best of both worlds. But like, I think you're right, Matt. Just for some people, maybe considering more some of those freelance and contract positions instead of just looking for that full time, benefits included job might make sense, especially right now. But contract work is different than signing up for a side hustle. You and I, we have discussed our feelings about side hustles. Don't remember the episode number, but we talked about kind of the nefarious, what do we call it?

[Matt]

Ooh, that episode.

[Joel]

Yeah, but side hustles can be nefarious. And part of the reason is because, yeah, they can be a great way to make cash quickly, but they're not typically a great long term solution for people's finances. Another problem though that we're seeing is a rise in side hustle scams. We'll link to a great Yahoo Finance post about the red flags to watch out for. But if you are in a pinch job wise, which more and more people are finding themselves in right now, be careful before taking a gig based on a text that you receive or a social media post that you saw. And don't ever sign up for a side hustle that comes with upfront costs. That is a massive red flag. Right?

[Matt]

About to get scammed.

[Joel]

Oh, yeah. Hey, we'd love to give you this job, but you have to pay some money for training or for equipment that you need in order to be able to do this job from your home. Even if they offer to send a check to cover those costs because the check, of course, turns out to be fraudulent, you're out the money. And it just seems like we're seeing a rise in side hustle scams right now, so. And especially with people looking for employment and some folks getting desperate. Be on the lookout for that.

[Matt]

Yeah, even I saw another story, I think it was last week where a lady was scammed via a job that she was hired for, like, over on LinkedIn. So, like, it's not just the errant email that shows up out of nowhere, but also somewhere that you feel like. Feels like one of the brighter, sunnier.

[Joel]

Corners of the Internet, like a trusted site and you can still find scammy postings there.

[Matt]

Yeah, but buddy, we've got more to get to. We're going to talk about the cost of drugs and plenty more on today's Friday flight. But first, some ads. You probably think it's too soon to join aarp, right? Well, let's take a minute to talk about it. Where do you see yourself in 15 years? More specifically, your career, your health, your social life. What are you doing now to help you to get there? Well, there are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with aarp.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

So it's safe to say it's never too soon to join aarp. They're here to help your money, your health and happiness live as long as you do. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org wisefriend Hey, y', all, it's Joel and Matt from how to Money. Joel, you were just out in Seattle recently, weren't you?

[Joel]

Yeah, man, it was amazing. I went for one of the most glorious runs of my life along the waterfront. It had everything you could ask for. Crisp air, mountain views, fairies gliding across the water. Beautiful.

[Matt]

I love it, man. Yeah. For us, our road trip through Charlottesville was a highlight. We actually splurged on a custom built Airbnb and it was well worth it. The house had these unique touches like a poured concrete counter there in the kitchen with a built in drying rack. Super functional. It even inspired some ideas for our house.

[Joel]

Plus, with a kitchen like that, you save money eating out.

[Matt]

Yes, exactly. That's what struck me. What seems normal to a homeowner. It can be the thing that makes a guest trip really special.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

Yeah. So while you are off making your travel memories, your home could be helping someone else make theirs. Find a co [e-mail] host.

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[Joel]

Thanks for sticking with us on this Friday flight. We've got more to get to. We are going to talk about drugs specifically. Not good rx, Matt, but trump rx. We'll talk about that.

[Matt]

It's a real thing.

[Joel]

It's happening. Well, first let's get to the ludicrous headline of the week. This one comes from Yahoo. Finance and it reads, grant Cardone calls the concept of emergency savings a bank myth. And I'm not sure if everyone listening is familiar with this real estate influencer Grant Cardone, he's kind of a brash fella, is he?

[Matt]

I don't know much about. I know the name, but was he on tv? Did he have, like a TV show or something?

[Joel]

I don't even know. Okay. I think maybe, but I just know.

[Matt]

That, like, he's just there on the interwebs.

[Joel]

Yeah. He's one of the biggest influencers in the real estate space. And a lot of what he says doesn't really jive with me, probably because we have different goals, but also different philosophies. And sometimes this is just the case also, in people who are super duper into real estate, they can just be tough to listen to because they think that real estate is the answer to every single problem. And this guy in particular is kind of hard for me to stomach. But often real estate people, you and I, real estate investors, Matt. But that's only a part of what we do.

[Matt]

We're real estate light.

[Joel]

Yeah, real estate light. And so. But a lot of people who go heavy into that space, they basically think that, you know, basic personal finance knowledge and hygiene aren't really that important. Real estate's gonna solve all the problems. And Grant Cardone's premise is that saving money is a trick the banks are playing on us. And that going to work, he says, is the key to getting by if stuff hits the fan. That's clearly.

[Matt]

What about if you can't work?

[Joel]

I know, right? Yeah. What if you get injured or what?

[Matt]

Sometimes that's. That's why you need an emergency fund, why you need some cash in the bank. No, that's.

[Joel]

I mean, you can't always just like.

[Matt]

Turn, like, turn on the, like the work spigot and receive cash.

[Joel]

It seems kind of ludicrous that he would say this, especially given all the studies that have been done about the mental benefit and the real personal finance benefit that people gain by having an emergency fund at their disposal. And just by looking at my own life in history and other people that I know, it's like the emergency fund comes in clutch sometimes for people. Right. You probably don't need a whole year of cash on hand. There's been more people saying that lately. I do think maybe if I'm going to be the most generous interpretation of what Grant Cardone is saying, maybe what he's trying to say is that people tend to over index into savings and they don't invest when they should be. They're shoveling too much money into their savings account and not enough into their 401s, IRAs or into real estate investments. That's just being generous. But I don't think that's what he's saying. And that can be true. There are some people who do over index to savings. And yeah, you don't need a year of savings built up before you start investing. But still having some liquid cash on hand, it's a necessity. Always has been, always will be.

[Matt]

I just think he's out of touch with like, the common person out there who like, runs into cash flow issues. And like, when you've got tons of real estate, yes. Like, you have the ability to tap these other investments and you've got private equity and just ways of acquiring, just getting your hands on money. That's not. That's not where most Americans are, man. So because of that, you need the basic emergency fund, which we've updated because originally was $2,467 back in the day. And with flation, that dollar amount is now $3045. So remember that 30, 45.

[Joel]

And I do think probably he is out of touch because I remember seeing an article in the Wall Street Journal or New York Times about his, like, super duper fancy house on the beach in Malibu.

[Matt]

Okay. Yeah.

[Joel]

I'm like, okay, all that fits with. You're that guy.

[Matt]

Okay, Exactly.

[Joel]

Congrats.

[Matt]

Exactly. But so I just said dollar amount that you need to set aside for an emergency fund. And it turns out that that is key when it comes to growing your emergency fund quickly. You need to set a specific goal. So that's the first step. And then the second step is to put that goal, that specific amount, like, constantly in front of you. Like we're talking like a sticky note on your bathroom mirror, putting a note up on the fridge, the dash of your car. And certainly try to find the most painless ways to cut back first. But then start making some harder moves, like finding ways to just like, eating out less. Maybe, maybe you haven't bounced around your insurance a little bit and you're way overpaying. There are more difficult steps that take a little bit more time to ensure that you're spending less money to where you're allowing yourself to build up that emergency fund more quickly. But those two steps, specifically identifying the dollar amount, $3,045, and then reminding yourself of it. That comes from friend of the show, Katie Milkman, who is brilliant. Those are great tips. But I will say, I think in addition to that, I think what's going to cement it for a lot of people is once they actually have that emergency fund on hand and Then they use it. They find themselves in a situation to where they're like, oh, I knew that the roof was going out and I had some money set aside there, but I thought it was only going to be $9,000. Turns out it's $12,000. Oh, I got some extra money here, like experiencing like the sigh of relief that you get to, like that you get to exhale knowing that you're not having to put it on credit cards to where you're paying over 20% because you aren't financially prepared for the emergency room visit. Right. Like, no one expects that, but if you find yourself in a pinch, like, that's what people have to rely on and that's what we're trying to get folks to avoid. It's not that, like, I don't even care that people. I don't want you to have tons of money in your savings account. Not because you could be doing smarter things without money. Because it's not about the money. It's about the relief. It's about the peace.

[Joel]

Not having to worry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

The peace that, that's going to allow you to then be able to focus on the things that are more important than life. We don't want you obsessing over your dollars. It's about life. It's about what you can then turn your attention to what you can then focus on that's so much more important.

[Joel]

I've had a couple conversations recently with some real estate investors and just who are friends, and I've been like, there's some tough times happening right now in the multifamily and commercial realty spaces right now for people who have investments that they've made, they are finding that the numbers aren't nearly as good as they had projected. When you're thinking about that, what do you need to be able to hang on to an investment? You need liquidity. Even as a real estate investor, you can project the best numbers, but if they don't come to pass the way you hoped they would, you need to have cash in the bank to be able to allow you to make it through so you don't have to fire sale and completely mess your finances up in the process. So especially as a real estate investor, that doesn't eliminate you, I don't think, from the need for having an emergency fund. I think, in fact, it makes it potentially even more important. Yeah.

[Matt]

Not for the individuals out there, but for the quote unquote savvy folks out there as well.

[Joel]

By the way, some, some employers are being more Helpful in the area of helping people garner a bigger emergency fund, which is kind of cool. And this is kind of a self interested play as well. Right. These employers realize that their employees are potentially living on the financial precipice and they're stressed about it. And because of that they're less productive in their job that not having savings, it takes a mental toll. And so there are new fintech companies springing up. There's one called Secure Save. There was an article just written about them. And they're making it easier for employers to offer a match towards emergency savings, which is just this benefit for people to incentivize something that is going to help the employee and the employer.

[Matt]

Makes sense, man.

[Joel]

Yeah. And I don't necessarily think it's the employer's job, I think it's our job. But it's also cool to see that employer, some employers are responding and they're being like, actually why not? We realize that this is like a goal you should be tackling, but why don't we help you out with it? Because it's, it's a win, win. It's in our best interest too. Yeah.

[Matt]

Well, on a similar note, worker satisfaction is being tied to being offered financial advice from their employer. So not only do they want the good benefits like health coverage, a nice 401k match, maybe now an emergency fund match, but they want money advice, money help as well. Whether it's access to like budgeting software out there or just even engaging content. Man, this makes me think about, we've done seminars for companies out there to help teach their employees about money, which is a ton of fun and it is very, very cool to see folks engage and asking great questions. You as an individual, you can't rely on your employer to I think play this role in your life. But man, I think given the poor state of personal finance education in the country, I am for helpful instruction like from wherever it comes from. It makes me wonder if more folks were talking about personal finance like back in the day because there is certainly a demand for it. So like where was the supply? And we're providing the supply now and companies are doing that. We're definitely trying to, but like, yeah, it makes me wonder like were folks more, more willing to talk about their personal finances back in the day? And has it become more private over the past 20, 20, 30 years? I don't know.

[Joel]

I think a lot of it comes down to added complexity and personal finances have just become. There's just a lot more to wade through, to think through and I think it just used to be less complex back in the day, which made maybe made some of this content a little bit less necessary.

[Matt]

But we live in a more complex, optimized world. And so as companies are looking to grow their margins, grow their profits, a lot of times what that means is folks potentially overpaying for products, for services, not investing as well as it could be.

[Joel]

And we've had a proliferation of options for people, right? So it's this, we're entering into this like Walmart sized grocery store instead of like an Aldi sized grocery store with like minimal choices. And it's just, man, I think there's overload for people trying to figure out their finances. And so we want to, at least here, we want to simplify things and help help folks make those most important decisions.

[Matt]

That's what we're doing. That's what we're trying to do at least.

[Joel]

All right, let's talk about prescription drugs. We've talked about using Goodrx for saving money on websites. I used Goodrx the other day at a pharmacy. I told you you should get that rash looked at, how to get antibiotic for my daughter. And I went in there and I pulled up Goodrx and it saved me, I don't know, like $3.50. It wasn't a ton of money, but it took me all of 350. I'll take seconds, you know, but no joke, Trump Rx is joining the ranks of discount medic medicine websites. The Wall Street Journal, they love to jab him right now. And they, they called him the pharmacist in chief in one of their recent headlines. And we're just seeing a unique blend of capitalism and socialism coming down from the White House these days. The president himself, I guess, has negotiated deals directly with some drug companies, specifically Pfizer, to be able to offer discounted medicines to consumers through TrumpRx.com the details are vague, so we don't know exactly what this is going to look like or how much savings people are going to be able to realize. Truly the threat of tariffs is ultimately what made this deal happen. Pfizer got like a three year exemption from the tariffs that are being threatened. And so this site is set to launch early next year. We'll be on the lookout for it. I'm curious, Matt. I am very curious to see what this entails and how much it can or will help people, how robust it's going to be.

[Matt]

We'll see.

[Joel]

I hope it saves people money on expensive drugs, but there's Also a lot of other websites out there that are already making hay in that space. Cost Plus Drugs, which Mark Cuban launched a few years back, is a big one in that space. Doesn't cover everything, that's for sure. But it's a great place to turn because they, they have a very Costco esque approach where it's like a 15% markup, which means that the drugs cost a fraction of what they're going to cost in a lot of other places that you, that you might turn.

[Matt]

And the best part is that that was launched by an individual, you know, capitalism, baby, not by the federal government. And that's the problem. That's what rubs me the wrong way about going like, do I want to see lower drug prices? Do I want to see lower health care prices for American citizens? Absolutely. But how we get there matters so much.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And so on.

[Joel]

It also feels less like the government, by the way, and like an individual, you know, which, like, it'd be different if Congress was like, we're going to create this website and we're going to create some legislation around this. But it's one individual trying to launch.

[Matt]

Sure.

[Joel]

A website with their name on it.

[Matt]

With his name on it. Sure. Yeah. He wants the Obamacare equivalent with his name plastered on this potential offering for folks. But either way, I mean, in both cases, I still don't like it if it's coming from the top down. And so on a similar note, here's a potentially positive note, but we might be seeing fewer pharma ads on tv. The FDA director wrote an op ed in the New York Times about pharmaceutical ads. Basically how they run amok and how he's planning to rein them in. And the US is one of the two developed countries in the world that continues to allow direct advertising from pharmaceutical companies, which is fascinating.

[Joel]

But New Zealand, the other one.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. Like, what is it with us in New Zealand? I don't know. And I certainly am totally on board with the fact that these commercials are annoying, they're stupid, they're so silly. It's just people like living their best lives and you know, they spend 30 seconds talking about all the side effects.

[Joel]

Because of this pharma drug. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, it makes me happier. I might die, keel over instantly by taking this drug.

[Matt]

But it was worth it, wasn't it? Yeah. So the last line in the article was that, but the billions of dollars drug companies spend on advertising would be better spent on lowering drug prices for American consumers. Which certainly sounds nice, but at the same Time, I think what you have to ask yourself is, where do you draw the line when it comes to what you're gonna allow your government to decide for you? Right, because. And like this, this kind of mirrors the free speech conversations that we're having these days. It's really easy when you see something you don't like to say, yeah, they should shut that down. But what we need to do is imagine the shoe being on the other foot. And what we need to be thinking through is imagine a policy, imagine a product, something that the government does or not does, but that's out there that you really like. And now think, oh, yeah, the folks on the other side of the aisle are going to say, yeah, let's shut that down, because now we're in power. Is that the kind of power that we want our federal government to have? That's why I have such a hard time with Trump Rx, with anything that the federal government does. And I am all for Mark Cuban and all the different entrepreneurs out there doing awesome things on their own dime. They're the ones taking the risk as opposed to the government, the federal government taking the risk. And then us as US Citizens, as taxpayers being saddled with the bill.

[Joel]

I will say the FDA director, he didn't say, I'm going to outlaw them. But what he said was, there's actually. We used to send letters to the pharmaceutical companies about truth in advertising claims. We don't really send those letters anymore. We've kind of like, the cop isn't on the beat anymore. And some of the claims being made are pretty ostentatious, not, not aligned with reality. And so he's saying, we're just going to be on. We're going to be on it a little bit more. And I think that's, that's probably.

[Matt]

That just sounds like, don't make me count to three, you know, because then what, like, what does it come down to? It comes down to enforcement and then what? That costs money. And then at some point, you have to decide what you're going to allow, what you're not going to allow. Like, I don't. Again, I'm totally on board with the fact that these commercials are so stupid, but let's just make fun of them, right? Like, let's make it.

[Joel]

Some people are swayed by them.

[Matt]

Let's make it so ridiculous.

[Joel]

They go to their doctor's office and.

[Matt]

They'Re like, hey, I know this drug. I think, well, and that the Hippocratic oath, right? Like that falls then upon the doctors to say, hey, let me tell you what's actually best for you in this, in this scenario. I understand why that's attractive, but as healthcare professionals, I think there should be. I mean, there is a high standard as to what it is that you're gonna do for your patients.

[Joel]

Yeah. All right. Good times. We'll see what happens there. We'll be following this indeed. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. Matt. We'll put links to some of the the stories that we mentioned in today's episode up on our [e-mail] and we'll see you back here on Monday with a fresh Ask how to Money episode. And if you have a question for us, a money question, send it our way. We'd love to take it. Just record it on the voice memo app of your phone, email it over to [e-mail] until next time. Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends out. This is an iHeart podcast.