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- [00:00]
Jade Warshaw
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Joel
Guaranteed Human where do you see your career in 10 years? What are you doing now to help you get there? The sooner you start enhancing your skills, the sooner you'll be ready. That's why AARP has reskilling courses in a variety of categories like marketing and management to help your income live as long as you do. That's right.
- [00:20]
Matt
AARP has a bevy of free skill building courses for you to choose from because the steps that you choose to take today will help you to love what you do in the future. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org skills if you've.
- [00:37]
Joel
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- [01:00]
Matt
That's right, hire right the first time. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com howtomoney then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com howtomoney to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:17]
Joel
Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How2Money. I was just in Seattle, Matt, and honestly, it's one of the greatest cities in the world, particularly in the summer one run by the water. We hopped a ferry across Puget Sound. Just an unforgettable trip.
- [01:29]
Matt
That's what struck me. What seems normal to a homeowner, it can be the thing that makes a guest trip really special.
- [01:35]
Joel
Which is why hosting your home on Airbnb makes sense, right? Travelers are looking for those authentic, memorable spaces. And if you don't have time to manage all that well, Airbnb's Co host feature makes it easy. A local co host can help with everything from creating the listing to keeping your place running smooth.
- [01:52]
Matt
Find a co host@airbnb.com host welcome to how to Money.
- [01:56]
Joel
I'm Joel, and today I'm talking with Jade Warshaw on escaping the debt trap and rewriting your story.
- [02:21]
Okay, so in Greek mythology, Atlas holds the world on his shoulders as a punishment from Zeus. Every time I see an image of Atlas, it makes me think about the modern reality of debt to people struggling under its weight. It can feel Like a perpetual burden. And it's not like a, you know, you're going rucking a little jaunt where you can take off that pack if you want. And Jade Wershaw, she. She knows that burden of debt. Well, she paid off almost half a million dollars in consumer debt over the better half of a decade. And now she uses her hard earned knowledge to teach others how to do the same. She's a Ramsey personality. She is the author of the new book, what no One Tells yous About Money. Jade, I'm really excited to talk to you. Thank you for joining me today on the podcast.
- [03:05]
Jade Warshaw
Thank you so much, Joel. I loved that visual you started out with, by the way. So good atlas.
- [03:10]
Joel
It's true. I mean, think of it like the weight of the world on your shoulders. It can feel like that. Especially when you had as much debt as you had. Which is going to be my second question to you. But the first one I have to ask you is, what do you like to splurge on? Craft beer is my thing. But what is your craft beer equivalent? What are you splurging on while you're still doing smart stuff with your money in the meantime?
- [03:30]
Jade Warshaw
Plants. Plants. Anything green that can live inside of my house is the thing.
- [03:34]
Joel
What was the last plant you got? And I know fiddle leaf figs. We have a fiddle leaf fig that we've been able to keep alive. Those are notoriously difficult to keep alive, right?
- [03:44]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, they do. And I have a big one that I actually just moved so I could put my Christmas tree up. I just moved it into my kitchen. Fiddle leaf fig. The last thing I bought was probably I bought a kiwi plant. It's like a dracaena. It's. It, it's really, really pretty. It's really tropical. I like tropical plants. I bought yet another Monstera. I have lots of those.
- [04:06]
Joel
They're so cool. I love those. I get mine from Costco when they sell them.
- [04:09]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, really? Be careful.
- [04:11]
Joel
I have one of the front porch is huge. Which. Okay, next question to you. What do you do with those plants? If you have them outside and it's wintertime, like, you got to bring them inside and then your house gets a little crowded.
- [04:22]
Jade Warshaw
Well, here's the thing. I. I have mastered the indoor house plant. I can keep them alive. Most of my plants I've had for like four years or more. It's outdoor plants that I struggle with. So I only buy indoor houseplants. Joel. I don't even mess with the outdoor stuff. I have a big pair of elephant ears you know what I'm talking about?
- [04:40]
Joel
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
- [04:40]
Jade Warshaw
And I have those inside and they stay inside all year because we have winter here anyway, so we can't take them outside.
- [04:46]
Joel
To me, the elephant ears are so cool. Especially like outside. They just get so big. It's ridiculous.
- [04:52]
Jade Warshaw
My house is a jungle. It is.
- [04:55]
Joel
I love it though. I love it. I'm all for. I'm all for the inside plants. The real inside plants. The fake ones, no way. But the real ones, yeah, they do. They just like brighten the space. For sure they do.
- [05:06]
Jade Warshaw
I read something that said you're supposed to do a mix of faux and real. Like that's how you get the optimal. But I just can't do the faux plant thing.
- [05:14]
Joel
I'm with you.
- [05:14]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [05:16]
Joel
Not worth it. I see, every time I see them I'm like, that's a decent, like stand in for a real plant. But sorry, I can tell. And if I can tell, it's going to bother me always.
- [05:25]
Jade Warshaw
So the question is, do you name your plants? That's when you know you're getting into some. Some deep territory.
- [05:30]
Joel
Sounds like you do.
- [05:32]
Jade Warshaw
Yes, I do.
- [05:33]
Joel
I have not gone to that step yet, but maybe someday try it out. Tell me about. Let's talk about debt. You paid off 460,000 dol. Thousand dollars in non mortgage debt. How did you know that you had that much debt? And how did you get into that level of debt in the first place? It sounds like a lot.
- [05:50]
Jade Warshaw
Great question. When you have that much debt, you know it. You don't even really have to start tabulating it. You start to feel it before you ever see the math on paper. You feel the cracks in your finances. When you go to the grocery store and you're just buying odds and ends like toilet paper and soap and, and your card declines, right? You go, oh, wait a minute, something's wrong. I can't even get the things that I need without a problem. You feel it when something small happens and your spouse makes a purchase without telling you about it. And somehow something very small, like going through the drive through turns into an argument, right? Those are the things that you start to feel. Or you want to take a trip and you go to buy the flights and you're trying to find the cheapest flights that you can find on Spirit Airline and you're looking for the places that you can eat at that are less than $8 a person because you can't afford to go on the vacation, right? So those were the things that were starting to happen with Sam And I more so we were taking, we were moving from Tennessee at the time down to South Florida. And you know, when you move, you're just packing everything up. It's so expensive to move, whether it's tape boxes. And that was a strain. Just to be able to move was hard. And so those were the cracks that I started seeing in our finances. The overdrafts, the arguments, difficulty doing the simple things. And that's kind of what led us to say what's going on here? And to be honest with you, it wasn't this big meeting that we said, we're going to lay out all of our debts. It was a simple question, hey, how much student loans do you have? And that one question kind of led to the unraveling of all of it, because that was a simple question, but hard to answer. And that's when we knew, hey, there's more going on here. When I said to my husband Sam, how much student loans do you have? And it was kind of like, I think it's like maybe 180 or maybe it's like, Right, that was kind of.
- [07:45]
Joel
The ballpark versus the specificity.
- [07:48]
Jade Warshaw
Yes, that was the unraveling of it all. And then from there it all kind of came out.
- [07:52]
Joel
So did you realize we have to get specific here? We have to write, we have to know exactly what we owe. And you added it all up and that's how you came up with the headline number. And did you suspect that it was anywhere near that much?
- [08:03]
Jade Warshaw
Well, what happened was, you know, when you graduate, you have kind of like a six month, a grace period where nothing's due. And so like I said, we were already feeling the strain, already feeling those cracks. And I knew that that grace period was about to be over. And so in my head I'm thinking, gosh, it's already very, very difficult to handle money. What are these payments going to be when his student loans hit and when my student loans hit. And so that's what led to the question of, hey, we're already on the edge when these bills come due. We're going to be over the edge if we don't come up with a plan. So that's how the conversation started. And yeah, like I said, it was a lot of I think maybe, possibly and led to, well, can you log in and see? And then that led to, oh, wait, my mom is on these student loans co signers. Like all of this unraveling. And yeah, once we got the number, we did realize, first off, we can't afford our life with student loan payments. And that's how we started saying, okay, we need a plan. And I told my husband I remembered a guy that I heard on the radio, and it was Dave Ramsey. So years back, I'd been in the car with my brother, and Dave Ramsey came on the radio, and it was the first time I ever heard it. And he's talking, of course, to people about how to get out of debt. The baby steps, if you're familiar with those. And I remembered it, and I said to my husband, I think there's a guy that can help us. He's got this plan for money. Maybe we ought to check it out. And so that's how we started the seven baby steps to try to get out of debt.
- [09:26]
Joel
One of the things I appreciate about your story is how resourceful you were. And it sounds like you're still that kind of person. But talk to me about how you thought about increasing income. You went. It sounds like you tried every side hustle in the book, or at least most of them, and how that impacted the rest of your life. Kind of going that hard in an attempt to get rid of this debt in short order, because that's a lot of money. And a lot of people would just, like, crawl up in a hole and just pretend it doesn't exist, cover their ears. La la la la la. But no, you were like, I'm gonna do everything in my power to get rid of this as quickly as possible.
- [10:01]
Jade Warshaw
Well, you know, we had big dreams, so, you know, most of us come out of college, and we're just, like, ready to take a bite out of the world. And my husband and I were the same way. We wanted to be musicians. He wanted to be, you know, an instrumentalist. I wanted to be a vocalist. And we already knew that things were stacked against us choosing that profession. Most people think of a starving artist, it's like, if you're not Beyonce or Britney Spears, who. Who even are you? Right? So we already knew that we had our work cut out as far as making a living. And we did not want to fall into that stereotype of you're just, you know, starving artists living, you know, feast to famine. And so we knew, okay, the same way that everybody else, if you want to be a doctor, you have to work hard for all of these years in order to just get a residency, right? Same thing with music. So we knew that we wanted to beat that drum and really go hard on that. But the truth was, this debt was here. And if we wanted to realize this dream, we had to clean up that debt. And so I think the same resourcefulness that makes you go out and network and get gigs and, uh, all of that is the same personality trait that we brought into paying off debt, which is you do whatever you have to do. You work hard, you knock on doors, you turn door handles and you grind it out. Like that's what you have to do. And I tell people that all the time on the Ramsey show, they're looking for Joel, kind of like an easy button. And I'm like, there's no easy button. You're going to have to do things that make you uncomfortable. You're going to have to do things that make people ask questions. You're going to have to do things that make you feel like you almost have to get to the point of questioning what you're doing. Am I going too hard? Am I taking too much time from my spouse? Am I taking too much time from my family? That is the line that you need to get up to because that's when you know that you're going hard in the paint.
- [11:42]
Joel
Yeah, I'm curious about that. So I want to hear one. How uncomfortable did you get? Like, what did you do? I know you were a cruise ship singer. Like, how uncomfortable did you allow yourself to get? What did that look like? And then is it possible for someone to take a, an approach that's too nose to the grindstone, that they blow up other parts of their life life in an attempt to get rid of the debt too quickly?
- [12:04]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, good question. So let's frame it up first. So yeah, here I am, 23 years old, $460,000 of debt, at the time, making 30,000. So I just want to set up that this is an extreme situation. Most people's situation is probably not this extreme.
- [12:19]
Joel
That's a tough math problem right there.
- [12:20]
Jade Warshaw
That's a tough math problem. So we did have to go to extremes for us. Yeah, we sold the furniture in our house. I remember moving into a townhouse that my mother in law owned that she was renting to us at cost. No furniture in there. And we had some buddies that were like, hey, we used to go to our friend's house, you know, on a Friday night, order a pizza. And one day our friends were like, hey, why don't we have dinner at your house? And we said, well, that'd be fine, but we don't have furniture. And they didn't believe us. And they came over and they looked around and they were like, oh crap, you really don't have furniture. And we were like, yeah, we, we just sit on the steps and eat. Like that's how we eat.
- [12:56]
Joel
So when you're saying no furniture, like no chairs, no dining room table, no actual bed, no couch, like any of.
- [13:02]
Jade Warshaw
That stuff, we had an air mattress. So we sold. When we sold our townhouse to try to. Because it was 2008, the Great Recession, and like I said, we were moving from Tennessee to South Florida, we were able to sell our house at cost. So we didn't make anything or earn anything. It was $120,000. So that was some debt cleared. And, and the deal was that the person who bought our house in cash bought the furniture with it, which was great because half of it was on payment. So it cleared those payments. And so when we got down to South Florida, we bought an air mattress. We had $800 in our pocket. We bought an air mattress, we bought a little two seater couch from Ikea, we bought one or two, like breakfast stools to sit on, and that was it. And so that's what we had in our apartment. And then that's what we had in our townhouse that we later on rented with roommates. And that's how it was.
- [13:54]
Joel
So in your opinion, there's nothing too extreme you can do in order to eradicate debt quickly or, or is it.
- [14:00]
Jade Warshaw
I think if you're, if you have a spouse and you're on the same page and you have a very clear timeline of, hey, this is what we're gonna do, then that's up to you guys. Now, I am a big proponent of rewards and milestones, and I talk about that in my book. If you have a, if you have a journey in front of you, there has to be rewards, there have to be milestones. I liken it to a marathon, right? When I was training for a marathon last year, I knew it was going to be a long journey. I knew that it was going to be months and months of training, very difficult, lots of pain, lots of sacrifice. But I also had the rewards set up. So I knew, hey, on the days that I do the long run afterwards I'm having nachos and a margarita. You know, you have to have those in there because that's what gives you the dopamine hit to go, oh, that was a good job. I want to keep going. And so that's so important.
- [14:49]
Joel
One of the parts about running lots, by the way, is that you can expand your diet to eat stuff you normally wouldn't be able to. I just ran my first not long ago as well, so we could Geek out on marathons.
- [14:59]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, we can't.
- [15:00]
Joel
Listeners don't care about that.
- [15:01]
Jade Warshaw
No, they don't.
- [15:01]
Joel
But I think it's a great analogy. And you were on this mission with your husband, so what did it look like to get on the same page? And how would you say that this debt payoff process changed your marriage?
- [15:15]
Jade Warshaw
What you're asking is exactly what is in the book and exactly why I wrote this last book, what no one tells you about money. Because if you go back to the beginning of the story, I'm thinking, oh, all we need is a plan. If we can just have a plan, we can do this. And so I'm telling Sam about Dave Ramsey, and there's seven baby steps, and all we have to do is this, this, this. He's like, great, that sounds good. That sounds good. But doing something like this with a partner, all it means is there's double the emotion because money is already a very emotional process as it is, which no one is really talking about. They're talking about how much to put in savings and what percentage, you know, what percentage you need in your retirement and all these numbers. And my thing is, why isn't anybody talking about the time that you stand in front of the mirror with tears in your eyes and you're asking yourself, why is this my life and did I ruin everything? And you're looking at your spouse wondering if your marriage is going to last because there's this mountain of debt between you. No one is talking about that. And that's what this book is about. That was the hardest part. Joel is dealing with the guilt of my husband bringing $230,000 into a brand new, squeaky clean marriage. Right? Nobody's talking about that. No one is talking about the, the anger you feel when you feel like, oh, my gosh, I did what culture told me to do. They told me to go to college and get an education. I did that. They also told me to take a loan for it. You know, they told me that when I graduated, I could buy a brand new car because that's the way to celebrate and I could take a loan for it. So there is. There's so much anger, there's so much guilt. No one talks about the pity of that you feel when you finally do start to get your big boy job and your big girl job and you're bringing home a paycheck, but all of that money is going out the door in debt and you just feel sorry for yourself. Especially in a world like today where there's social media, you can just open up your phone and look at everybody else's seemingly perfect life. And all you're seeing is how behind you are, how you should have been here by now, how everybody else has passed you by. They're buying houses, having cars. That is what is the hard part about getting your money on track. And that's why I wrote about it.
- [17:21]
Joel
How you're talking about that, like, your husband bringing that much debt into the marriage. It just makes me think, and I'm curious, what. How would you talk to people, single people who are in a relationship, they're dating someone, like, I really like this person. They're starting to talk about money. And that person's like, yeah, I have a quarter million dollars in student loan debt. Is that this sort of massive red flag that they should be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Because the truth is, marriage is an economic reality as much as it is a, like, joining of two people in relationship. Right. And so how do you want people to think about maybe what it looks like on the front end before marriage as you're thinking through some of these money? And most people won't have maybe quite that extreme of circumstances, but actually, in today's day and age, it's not terribly extreme on the student loan front anymore.
- [18:10]
Jade Warshaw
You're exactly right. And I wouldn't say that somebody having debt in and of itself is a red flag. It's more about their philosophy on it, right? And figuring out if you're aligned with values wise. So if I'm dating somebody, I want to know, first of all, I have to be. I have to be aware of my own values, right? That's number one. What do I think about money? What do I think about debt? Is. Is money a good or a bad thing? Or is it amoral? What do I think about debt? Is there good debt? Is there bad debt? Is debt completely just leverage? Right? First you have to understand what you think about money. Then you can bring up the conversation to the person you're dating or maybe even your spouse for the first time. And. And I think the first conversation, Joel, is something that is just. I'm just trying to get the lay of the land. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just trying to learn what you think. I'm not influencing you. Tell me, what do you think about money? What do you think about debt? And just listen, right? Especially if you're dating. Please just listen. Because if you strike up with what you think you know, love goggles will make you do crazy things. Love goggles will make you go, oh, well, if that's what they think, then this is what I think too. Right. So I. The number one thing you can do is let the other person talk first so that they can get all of their ideas out without you influencing them and them kind of like going over to your side because they like you so much.
- [19:29]
Joel
Yeah.
- [19:29]
Jade Warshaw
So let them talk. And then when you start to hear things like, well, you know, debt doesn't really bother me. You know, I plan on getting a new car next year. Yeah, I don't mind the payments. Don't bother me then if that bothers you. Yes. Now we can start having a conversation and say things like, well, what. What would it look like if this, you know, relationship was to go further? What would it look like? Can you imagine a world where we don't use debt? Right. Just ask questions and find out what that is. Because I will say this. If you can't get aligned, you will have problems later. That is probably 70% of the calls that I get are two spouses that are not aligned on how to handle money.
- [20:08]
Joel
I'm curious what your reaction of friends and family were. So, like, even inviting your friends over, and they're like, you don't have any furniture. That's super weird. And your debt payoff, like, your myopic focus of, we're going to get rid of this as quickly as possible and we're going to do whatever it takes. The side hustles, the no furniture, whatever. To the extreme.
- [20:32]
Path you took, what were other people's reactions around you? Was that demoralizing at any point in time?
- [20:39]
Jade Warshaw
Well, to be honest with you, at first we didn't really televise. Wasn't until, like, people started noticing, what are you doing? And even then it was kind of like, oh, we're trying to pay off debt. We didn't make a big deal about it. Part of that was we were still young. We were still in our 20s. I think when you're in your early 20s, you can get away with more extreme behavior without as many questions. Having roommates as grown married people at 23 doesn't hit the same as doing that at 40. Right. So, yeah, there were. I would say there were probably less questions than one might think. But I will say the hardest part was when we had to say no to people. So, you know, your buddies, they want to go out. Hey, do you guys want to, you know, go to Vegas? You guys want to go out to dinner? Do you want to do this? When we were like, no, we can't Go or it's not in the budget. Or maybe we did go, but we just, you know, ordered a side salad. That's when the questions came. And it was more so a thing of, you know, your friends want to have fun with you. Like, that's what they want. So when they feel like the situation maybe can't be as much fun, then they say, well, can't you just forget about the budget for a minute? Like, can't you just. But then the longer we did it and the more people started to see our life transform, I saw those questions change. Joel. It started as a, what? What? Your budget. What. Okay, whatever. And then it became kind of like, well, Jade and Sam, they don't know they have to check their budget. Like, it came. That kind of thing. And then it became a feeling of, hey, you know, I have some friends that are wondering about their money. Do you think you could help them with their budget? Right. And so we saw you become the.
- [22:11]
Joel
People who are good with money in the group.
- [22:13]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so that's okay. That's par for the course. I tell people all the time, if you have a journey in front of you, even if it's, you're paying off $30,000 and you make $100,000, right. There's still going to be things that show. If you decide to sell a car, some, you know, Bob at work is going to say, hey, man, what happened to your Acura? You know, and that's okay. You can tell them as much or little information as you want to. The point is that you know why you're doing what you're doing, and you're connected to a why at the end of it. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what other people think. Like, that's a superpower to not care what other people think.
- [22:48]
Joel
How long did it take you to pay off that insane amount of debt? Was it seven years? And then what did you do once you got to the point where you finally paid off the last little bit of it?
- [22:57]
Jade Warshaw
So from the time we got intense about it, it was seven and a half years to pay it all off. And the funny part was it was such a. It was anticlimactic in the way that we had to send in a money order because it was a large amount we had. It was a student loan for $91,000. And we had been piling up this money because we were making a deal to pay it off for a little bit less. I think we ended up paying off for 71. And so we'd been piling up the money, but you can't just transfer that money. You have to do a money order. And so it was like we didn't have that moment where you hit the button and then you see the balance go to zero, and it's like, you know, confetti falls from the sky. It was like, all right, let's go to Publix, which is a grocery store over here. Let's go to Publix and drop off the money order. And then we came home and we were just. We couldn't believe the fact that for seven and a half years, this had been, like, the main focus of everything and it was just gone. Yeah, it was gone. And that's the part that I want people to understand. This thing that feels like it is owning you, that feels like it is just driving every decision you make, that is making you lose sleep at night, that is making you cry real tears, that is causing you to scream at the top of your lungs in arguments. If you do the work, there will come a point where it's just gone. It evaporates and it's never to be seen again. It's the best feeling in the world.
- [24:21]
Joel
I want to dig deeper because. Into the emotional side of money, because your book covers that so well. So I've got a bunch of questions specifically on that. I want to get to you with you, Jade, in just a sec. We'll get to that right after the break.
- [24:39]
Matt
You probably think it's too soon to join aarp, right? Well, let's take a minute to talk about it. Where do you see yourself in 15 years? More specifically, your career, your health, your social life. What are you doing now to help you to get there? Well, there are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with aarp.
- [24:58]
Joel
What about that dream job you've dreamt about? Sign up for AARP reskilling courses to help make it a reality. How about that active lifestyle you've only spoken about from the couch? AARP has health tips and wellness tools to keep you moving for years to come. But none of these experiences are without making friends along the way. Connect with your community through AARP volunteer events.
- [25:19]
Matt
So it's safe to say it's never too soon to join aarp. They're here to help your money, your health and happiness live as long as you do. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org wisefriend if you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant so you can feel confident that you are finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. That's a big deal whenever you hire counts.
- [26:01]
Joel
It's crucial to the success of your business to hire the right person for your business. And it doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. When you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring.
- [26:25]
Matt
That's right, hire right the first time. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com howtomoney then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com howtomoney to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Man, this is always the busiest time of the year. Yes, it is my favorite time of year. I love it. But the calendar gets pretty full between travel, trying to think of the best Christmas gifts, hosting friends and family. It can be really easy to lose sight of your financial goals because your spending is a bit out of control. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch, rated Wall Street Journal's Best Budgeting App of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or on your phone. And right now, just for how to money listeners, monarch is offering 50% off your first year.
- [27:21]
Joel
So I love Monarch because it allows me to easily keep track of my finances and my year end financial to do list, which means I can relax and enjoy the holidays. Matt Monarch is built for people with busy lives. If you've put off organizing your finances, Monarch is for you. Monarch does the heavy lifting. It links all your accounts in minutes. You can get clear data, visuals, smart categorization of your spending and real control over your money. If you are spreadsheet phobic like me, they promise you'll never need to touch a spreadsheet again. That's Right.
- [27:51]
Matt
Don't let financial opportunities slip through the Cracks. Use code howtomoneyonarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with code howtomoney.
- [28:05]
Joel
All right, we're back. Still talking with Jade Warshaw. Loved digging into her story. And let's dig into your book a little bit more, Jade as well. The new book. What no one tells you about money. What is the thing no one is telling us about money?
- [28:19]
Jade Warshaw
It's emotional. It is an emotional journey. It takes a lot out of you. That's the part that everybody forgets about, Joel. Everybody focuses on the math. How to pay off the debt, how much to save, when to start retiring. Is it smart to pay off your house or not? Don't get me wrong. There is a place for all that. But in taking that information, if you don't know how to filter it through your emotions, your emotions will stop you every time. I always say that it's like a car, right? If it's a car, you know, the car is your behavior and your beliefs are in the driver's seat, right? And then your emotions are what steer the wheel. So if you have a behavior you want to do. I want to get out of debt, like, that's the car. It's like, okay, I'm going to get in the car of paying off debt. But then your beliefs are sitting right there in the driver's seat. Do I believe I can actually do this? Do I believe? If you believe you'll do it, you can smash on the gas, right? You can start driving. But then the moment it starts feeling uncomfortable. Wait, what did you tell me I have to do? You're telling me to take the money out of savings and pay off, you know, to pay off my debt, right? That feels bad. That feels. Makes us feel unsafe. It makes us feel like things are out of control, right? So it's so important to understand the emotions because the emotions will make us hit a tree. The emotions will make us turn the car around and go in the opposite direction, Right? And so that's what I realized with Sam, is that you've got to first understand how this is making me feel. What. What am. What's causing me to retreat? What's causing me to not pull the trigger on that decision. What's causing me to avoid the conversation every single time. Right? And I found that it kind of boils down to really five main ones that we talk about in the book. The first one is frustration, right? Frustration happens when we know what to do, we know all the practical money advice that the experts gave us, but it's like we're trying to do it, and it's just not working right. It feels like all the effort we're doing is not matching our results, and that's frustrating.
- [30:24]
Joel
Why would you, like, drops in the bucket, Right. Like, you're making the progress is not. I'm not getting the progress for what. The effort I feel like I'm putting in.
- [30:32]
Jade Warshaw
Right. Why would you keep doing a workout plan if you're not losing any weight or building any muscle?
- [30:36]
Joel
I wouldn't.
- [30:38]
Jade Warshaw
I wouldn't. And so that frustration a lot of times boils down to, are you actually doing it the right way? Yeah. You know, and so I talk about that in the book how to Kind of Get around that. And because you won't do something long, if you're frustrated, it drains your energy. Have you ever had, Joel, like, a zipper that's stuck for sure. And you're just, like, trying with all your might to fix the zipper. And finally, what do you do? You just pull the jacket off and just throw it and put on something else, Right? That's right.
- [31:04]
Joel
Yeah.
- [31:04]
Jade Warshaw
Money is the same way. And so I'm trying to get people, hey, let's. Let's get the cloth out of the zipper so you can zip it up. Wear the shirt you want to wear.
- [31:12]
Joel
For most people, what does it look like to uncover the emotional barrier that's maybe preventing them from reaching the success or hitting those financial goals that they want? Because I think you're spot on. It's so true. Like, when you first start to think about money, it does seem like it's a simple math thing, but really, there's so much interpersonal stuff going on behind the scenes that is preventing our ability to hit those goals that we want to hit or to pay off the debt we want to pay off and to keep going in pursuit of those goals? How do we identify what it is that's holding us back?
- [31:45]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. And that's what the book is. I'm. I'm helping you decipher what certain behaviors mean. So, for example.
- [31:52]
If you're a person who you're noticing, or maybe your spouse is noticing, or maybe your friends have called it out that you have a hard time celebrating other people when they're winning financially. Maybe you're that person who your best friend. If your best friend gets a promotion or your best friend buys a new car, you kind of get a little irritated with it. It's hard for you to go, oh my gosh, great job, that's amazing. And really feel sincere. You're a person who kind of makes, even though you don't like that you do it. You kind of make these passive aggressive comments. Oh, well, I mean, if my husband made that much money, I'd, I'd do that too. Or it must be nice to be able to go on vacations like that, right? You start making these passive aggressive comments. Or maybe you're a person, you're constantly comparing. I mean, I mean, they just started that job and she's already making 70,000. I mean, I've been in this job and I haven't gotten a single right. You're always comparing to somebody else, but you're never focusing on your own, like blessings or good things. You're just calling out why it's unfair that they have that and you don't. Those are, those are behavior patterns and they point to a person who's very angry, right? And when we're in that state, it's very hard to make progress. Because when you're angry at everything out here, you have to remember anger wants justice. That's what it wants, right? At its core, it's, I've been done wrong and it has to be made right. And in the world today, when there's so much out there that is affecting us inside, real estate prices are high. We just have a complete cost of living crisis, right? With inflation and wages not keeping up, that's all out there. But it's affecting us and is making us mad that we can't buy a house. It's making us mad that we're actually contemplating if we're going to have two kids instead of one because of the price of living right. And it comes out in these comments and it comes out in these actions. And if we don't stop and go, what is that? We're going to be so mad thinking everybody else owes us something and that that's the solution. The problem is out there, therefore they need to make it right. The government needs to fix my student loans. My boss needs to give me a raise so that I can get right instead of going, you know what? I'm really mad. I can see this anger brewing. I need justice. They're not gonna do it. Maybe there's something I can do. And now I can start putting some motivation behind that anger and I can start pointing it and directing it at certain things that I want. I wanna get out of debt. Screw the government, I want a better marriage. Screw my boss, right? Now we can actually take that anger and use it as fuel to get the thing we want instead of just using it as excuses to cuss somebody out or make a snide comment or, you know, just shake our hand at. At the government or at the air. Right?
- [34:40]
Matt
Yeah.
- [34:41]
Joel
And it might. Might feel justifiable, but that doesn't mean it's valuable or helpful. Right. And so you have to understand what's going on beneath the surface, so you can say, why is it that I'm feeling that way? And you can underdress the, address the underlying emotion so that then you can redirect it in a more positive, More positive way. You, you write in the book, you write about dodging the truth. How crucial is it to get an accurate assessment of where things stand? Because that's another thing that people deal with is like, yeah, I'm just going to, you know, the. The truth is heading at me. I'm going to sidestep it so that I don't have to deal with it head on.
- [35:13]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. I mean, this is where the practical and the emotion completely overlap. Right. Because, yeah, you need to. There's a part of this. You need to know the numbers. You need to understand how much debt you're in. You need to understand what your assets are so you can start the work of solutioning it. Right. But if you kind of have a feeling about it, a lot of times that fear is what keeps us in the dark. That fear of not wanting to open up the closet. Right. Because there's a monster in the closet and we don't know exactly what it looks like. That's really what that is. And so the longer we keep things in the dark, we really don't know what's going on. I mean, Joel, I know you help folks with their money all the time. I do, too. And I'm always shocked when I ask somebody a simple question like, well, how much do you make? And it's kind of like, well, I mean, I think it's like, somewhere around. Right. And I'm thinking, why don't you know how much you make? Why aren't you looking at your pay stub? Or if I say, you know, for a month, how much. How much money does it just take to make your house run? Like, I know you probably have a little extra or, but how much does it take? And they're like, well, what do you mean? And I'm like, you know, just like, if you just look at your budget. And so those are those moments where I go, there's something that's making you not look at this? Is it? Because you know deep down inside that you're. I don't know. That Your mortgage is 50% of your take home. And that's, that's been bugging you and you know it, but you just don't want to. It's like you don't want to put it out in the open. Do you know deep down that you spend way too much on doordash? That's why you don't want to say when I ask, hey, how much do you spend on groceries every month? Uh, I don't know. It's somewhere around, you know, it's different every month. No, we have to look at these numbers and it is emotional. We're going to feel a little bit of guilt that we go to Target and spend way too much. We're going to feel a little bit of anger that our student loans and our, our car payment and our credit card is, is, is eating up, you know, 25% of our income. That's going to make us feel a little bit guilty. It's going to make us feel angry that we signed up for the debt. Right. We have to let ourselves feel that. We do, and we have to acknowledge it so that we can get to a point of kind of accepting. These are the choices that I made. That's okay. Like, life is about making mistakes. It's research. That's fine. But let me acknowledge this so that I can now move forward and get to a point of acceptance and go, okay, I made that choice. That's fine. But what are the choices I'm gonna make next? I can accept the situation for what it is, and I can accept the process for what it is to change it.
- [37:39]
Joel
You mentioned fear as being one of the common emotions, Right. That people experience, which is totally understandable, especially when we talk about people's lack of personal finance literacy. And so it's like, I feel like I have to learn a new language just to navigate these problems that I've, like, brought on myself through bringing on debt. Like, and you, you had fear, like, when you were going through this process, you even. It wasn't just that your debt would be with you forever, but you mentioned in the book you had this fear that it would cost your husband his life, which I thought was, like, really interesting. Can you delve into that a little bit what that fear was that was hitting you in that time?
- [38:17]
Jade Warshaw
I'm so glad you brought that up because to be honest with you, that for me is one of the most important parts of this book, but it's a heavy topic. And so a lot of times people skate around it. And I'm so glad you asked directly. Yeah. When you have half a million dollars of debt and you're bringing in, probably by that time that we really were understanding the numbers, maybe we were bringing in 60, $70,000 a year, you do look at yourself in the mirror and you go, am I worth more dead than alive? Would it be better for my family? Because right now, the situation that I'm putting them in is horrible. And when I tell you, Joel, that the guilt of that is crushing, and the shame of that is just. It's sad. I remember getting ready for bed at night, and my husband, he was standing in front of the mirror and he was brushing his teeth, and he didn't see me, but I could see his reflection in the mirror as he was brushing his teeth. And he was gone. Like his. He was gone. And I just remember in my heart going, God, please, please, we gotta get out of this. We gotta get out of this. Because people don't talk about that. The fact that you can feel like such a failure, you're not. You're not a failure. You made a bad choice. You got bad advice. But people wear that as an identity, and that's when the shame sets in. And it's so dangerous. And my biggest want and my biggest prayer was that I could help him see you're not the problem. Because he would say things like, man, I just ruined everything. Like, I'm the reason that we're not getting ahead. I'm holding you back. I'm holding you down. And I would be like, no, the debt is the problem. Like, let's. Let's tackle that. And so when people get to that point, it is. You have to start to understand, here's where I'm at, and here's where I'm saying, I've got to forgive myself. I've got to let it go. And you've got to lean into the people who love you and are telling you the opposite, because they see it. They can see that you're not the mistake. They can see that, hey, it was a bad business plan. It wasn't. It's not you.
- [40:27]
Joel
Let's be honest, though. In some relationships, you. That's not. That's not the response you're getting from your spouse.
- [40:33]
Jade Warshaw
That's true.
- [40:34]
Joel
And so you do that. That might be where marriage therapy comes in handy, right, to help you navigate some of those waters. Because if you have a kind and compassionate and Understanding spouse and you guys are on the same page. That's wonderful. But not every marriage is in that place. And it's like, no, you did bring this on me. Like, yep, why'd you bring this into the marriage? What are you doing to me? And so there can be that dynamic at play. Fortunately, you guys didn't have that going on.
- [40:58]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, and I talk about that in the book. I'm really taught that's part of the anger section. When, when your spouse is not of help, when they're kind of making it tough, when they're not as sympathetic or maybe they're the, maybe they are the problem. Like that does happen. When it's like we've said we were going to get out of debt, but you're still going and spending money and you're still not caring about the budget. Yeah, that'll make you angry. I talk about that in the book, but I also talk about, I want to go back what you said about therapy and having some, some help mentally because that's part of the tools. Like if you're going to go on this journey. We talked about rewards and milestones earlier. But another part of this, like mental check ins, you got to have that and you got to make sure you have the help of somebody that you trust, whether it's a professional therapist or counselor or because some of us need that, that next layer. Sometimes you can just go to a friend and vent and get it out. But a lot of us, we are carrying real issues that need help and I never want to minimize that. Whether it's something you did or something you experienced in childhood or in a previous relationship that you're bringing into your current situation, you are playing yourself. If you're not thinking that that is influencing how you handle your money because it 100% is.
- [42:09]
Joel
And let's be honest, there are things that are happening when you have the debt. It's not just the headline number that's overwhelming. You write about being frustrated when debt collectors are blowing up your phone. That's adding to the emotional stress. And so it's really hard. I mean, the fact that you saw your husband in that moment is a beautiful thing because you're also feeling overwhelmed and you're getting those mess, those voicemails left on your phone. And you're just like, what in the world? Like we're trying our best here. How did you deal with that confluence of emotion? Trying to pay off the debt while also having a healthy relationship with your husband? Like that just feels like you're fighting battles on every front, we were.
- [42:48]
Jade Warshaw
It's funny, a lot of what I write about in this book, it's kind of like hindsight is 20 20, right? You can see now, oh, this is what we did in the moment. It wasn't called anything. It was just survival. But now I can look back and go, oh, here's what we did and here's why it worked. So those moments where, you know, I felt I've always been the type of person that I'm kind of like, deal with the emotions later, just do the things now, right? That's. I've always been that way. But what happens, it starts stacking up and immediately, you know, eventually you crack. And that's what happened to me. I talk about it in the book. Debt collectors calling my phone, moment after moment every five minutes. And finally I just was like, enough. Like, no more. We need to do something right? And I was so desperate, Joel. I had rent money in my hand and I was ready to give it to Capital One just to get them to just leave me the heck alone. Like, leave me alone. And my husband, who's pretty level headed, I mean, he's. If I'm the extra one, he's the calm one. He was like, jade, we can't do that. Like, we need to come up with a better solution than that.
- [43:52]
Joel
And so you gotta keep the roof over your head so you can eventually pay off the credit card debt.
- [43:57]
Jade Warshaw
But those are those moments we are able to balance each other out. Which is why I say you need people in your life. You need. If you're single, you need people in your life that can hold you accountable because you will have a moment where you're ready to do something dumb in the name of desperation. And that person needs to be able to go, hey, hey, hey, don't do that. Let's talk about a better way. And then that ended up us going through and saying, hey, what are we missing? Here's the problem. Now we can fix it. And now we can relieve some of that frustration.
- [44:27]
Joel
All right, so much good stuff. I have a few more questions I want to get to with you. Specifically, I'm going to ask you a few questions about debt. Curious to hear your take. Just a few more questions with Jade Warshaw. We'll get right back to that after this.
- [44:44]
Matt
You probably think it's too soon to join aarp, right? Well, let's take a minute to talk about it. Where do you see yourself in 15 years? More specifically, your career, your health, your social life. What are you doing now to help you to get there. Well, there are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with aarp.
- [45:03]
Joel
What about that dream job you've dreamt about? Sign up for AARP reskilling courses to help make it a reality. How about that active lifestyle you've only spoken about from the couch? AARP has health tips and wellness tools to keep you moving for years to come, but none of these experiences are without making friends along the way. Connect with your community through AARP volunteer.
- [45:23]
Matt
Events so it's safe to say it's never too soon to join aarp. They're here to help your money, your health and happiness live as long as you do. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org wisefriend if you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant so you can feel confident that you are finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. That's a big deal whenever you hire counts.
- [46:06]
Joel
It's crucial to the success of your business to hire the right person for your business, and it doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. When you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring.
- [46:30]
Matt
That's right, hire right the first time. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com howtomoney. Then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com howtomoney to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Man, this is always the busiest time of the year. Yes, it is my favorite time of year.
- [46:52]
Joel
I love it.
- [46:52]
Matt
But the calendar gets pretty full between travel, trying to think of the best Christmas gifts, hosting friends and family. It can be really easy to lose sight of your financial goals because your spending is a bit out of control. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch, rated Wall Street Journal's Best Budgeting App of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or on your phone. And right now, just for how to money listeners, monarch is offering 50% off your first year.
- [47:25]
Joel
So I love Monarch because it allows me to easily keep track of my finances and and my year end financial to do list, which means I can relax and enjoy the holidays. Matt Monarch is built for people with busy lives. If you've put off organizing your finances, Monarch is for you. Monarch does the heavy lifting. It links all your accounts in minutes. You can get clear data, visuals, smart categorization of your spending and real control over your money. If you are spreadsheet phobic like me, they promise you'll never need to touch a spreadsheet again. That's right.
- [47:56]
Matt
Don't let financial opportunity slip through the Cracks. Use code howtomoneyonarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code how to money.
- [48:09]
Joel
All right, we're back. Still talking with Jade Warshaw. And just such a great new book that's well worth checking out. It's called what no One Tells yous About Money. And yeah, the, the emotional side of money is so powerful and it might be like 90 10. I don't know if we're waiting it out. The math versus the emotion. It feels like emotion is certainly the predominant thing that maybe it's an unexpected thing. And you're like, wow, I have so much of it goes back to childhood too. Right? How are you raised with money? And what are those scripts that are hanging out inside of you because you haven't really explored them. Jade, I've got a few more questions I want to get to you. I want it like, I'm curious, should people be willing to put off bigger life and family decisions while trying to pay off debt? Let's say you're like, we're ready to start a family. And you're like, we know it's not going to be cheap. Do you push forward, get started anyway, when you got debt hanging out that you want to pay off?
- [49:01]
Jade Warshaw
I mean, I definitely think this is a deeply personal decision. I'm all for family planning because the truth is it's as much economical as it is emotional. Now if somebody calls in and wants my advice, I'm never gonna say don't have a family. Right? That I will never tell you that I will never say you need to pause having children in order to pay off debt. I'm not gonna tell you that. But what I am gonna tell you is family planning can be very helpful if you embrace it. It can help you create the life that you want. It can help you create the values and that you want to see in your household. It can 100%. That being said, again, so deeply personal. You know, my husband and I, for us, where we were, the way I grew up, the way he grew up, we knew when we have children, we just want them to be in a financially peaceful household. That's all we want. And so for us, worth the sacrifice. I had children. I didn't start having children till age 36. Totally worth it. Wouldn't change it for the world. Somebody else might go, Jade, I would never do that. You know, I want to make sure that I'm, you know, starting my family now. Hey, more power to you. Just understand. And I said, I mean, yesterday I was hosting the Ramsey show, a family called in Pastor, five kids. And now he's 58 and looking up, realizing he hasn't put aside any money for retirement. And we had to remind him, no shame. But just remember, you're everything you do, you're making a choice. You make a choice of the number of children you want. In most cases, you're making a choice to remain in a profession. You're making a choice to not invest and instead pay for kids college. You're making all of these choices and that's okay. Just understand that when they pile up and create a result, you gotta be okay with the result.
- [50:53]
Joel
Yeah, sometimes I think having kids can be a surprise. It can be a motivator, actually, to get your stuff together as you're building your family. You're like, oh, man, I've got. I gotta be an adult here on many levels, including my finances. And I think for some people it is that kick in the pants. Just had my first kid and now I gotta figure out what a Roth IRA is. No, I've got three kids already. No, but I'm saying if you hit that point where you just had your first kid, Right. It can feel like, oh, now this is the impetus for me to actually get the ball rolling on some of this stuff. All right, maybe a couple rapid fire questions. Investing while paying off debt. Yes or no?
- [51:28]
Jade Warshaw
No.
- [51:29]
Joel
Can any debt be good?
- [51:30]
Jade Warshaw
A home.
- [51:31]
Joel
Home. Okay. Okay. Anything else?
- [51:34]
Jade Warshaw
I'm okay with somebody going into debt for a home, but let's eventually get it paid off.
- [51:37]
Joel
Yeah, yeah. Student loan debt. Can it be good?
- [51:40]
Jade Warshaw
No.
- [51:40]
Joel
Okay, so you got to go to school. Debt Free or don't go.
- [51:43]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [51:43]
Joel
Okay. Low rate mortgage debt is not bad or is bad if you plan to.
- [51:49]
Jade Warshaw
Keep it around forever. It's bad if you plan to pay it off in the term 15 years.
- [51:55]
Joel
Yeah, good.
- [51:56]
Jade Warshaw
Fine.
- [51:56]
Joel
Okay, what's one piece of money advice you used to believe, but you don't believe it any longer?
- [52:02]
Jade Warshaw
A piece of money advice I used to believe. Oh, that debt is a tool to help you win.
- [52:06]
Joel
Okay. So you used to think that debt could be something that accelerated your progress, and now you believe it's only a weight holding you back.
- [52:14]
Jade Warshaw
Yes, 100%.
- [52:15]
Joel
Okay. Final words you have for the how to Money audience.
- [52:19]
Jade Warshaw
Final words would be, the time is going to pass anyway. And what I mean by that is it's 2025, and at some point it's going to be 2035. Okay? So 10 years is going to pass and you can be in one of three places. You can look up 10 years from now and things can be exactly the same. You're still, you know, robbing Peter to pay. Paul, barely making ends meet, arguing about money, moving this debt with a lower interest rate over here to a no interest rate, thinking about doing a heloc. Right. Ten years can pass. Things can be a lot worse because you didn't do anything. You can be looking up and thinking, oh, my gosh, the student loan payment has ballooned with interest. Am I a person who's eligible for bankruptcy? I didn't see myself losing this job and I didn't know that 401k loan could become due in this way. Right. Things can be worse. Or today you can take this opportunity and go. What they're saying is really resonating with me and I have to make changes and I'm going to make changes. And then because of that, you can look up in 10 years and your life be so radically different that you don't even recognize who you are in 2025. And that's the place that I'm sitting. I don't even recognize some of the things and the person I was 10, 15 years ago, and I want that for you. That's why I wrote the book. What no one tells you about money.
- [53:44]
Joel
Love it. Where can how to Money listeners find that book and find out more about you? Jade?
- [53:48]
Jade Warshaw
Absolutely. So find the book@ramseysolutions.com store. It's right there. I mean, obviously you can find it places like Barnes and noble, Amazon, target.com, all of that. But, you know, ramseysolutions.com is a great place to purchase it, because there's other things that go along with your debt payoff journey, so you can bundle it with other really, really helpful tools. And yeah, find me on social media. I'm on Instagram, Aadewarsha. I'd love to hang out with you and talk to you.
- [54:12]
Joel
Love it. Jade, thank you so much for taking the time today. Really appreciate it.
- [54:15]
Jade Warshaw
I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
- [54:17]
Joel
Woo. All right. That was good stuff. So thankful that Jade joined me today. And I think what makes this conversation so powerful really is Jade's story. And I think we as humans respond to story. It's why some of our favorite books are fiction. Like the worlds that can be built and the people that we can construct can be so complex and interesting and fascinating. And it, it just that story, the narrative, it like sticks with us or it's why a song can be catchier and we can't get. Get it out of our head. Right. And I think that Jade's story is such. Is one that a lot of people can relate to and, and it's, I mean, seven and a half years to pay off almost half a million dollars in debt. That was a slog. And I think in some ways she took us down to the depths of that. But even in the book, you see a lot more of the emotional difficulty of all the incredible side hustles that she got into in order to try to pull out every stop in order to get rid of that debt in short order as quickly as possible. She treated it like she wanted to be done with it. And yeah, when you're making 30k and you've got debt up to that degree, you got to find some creative ways to go about tackling it. The fact that she was able to get rid of it in seven years and be completely debt free is admirable. I think my big takeaway was when she said, your emotions will stop you every time. And I think it's so true. It really is. Like emotions are much more a part of the process of being smart with money, of handling money well, of building wealth, of paying off debt than I would have given it credit for. When I first kind of started thinking about personal finance, because it was to me initially a math equation, how am I going to find. I think back in the day, it was like five grand was the cap on what you could put into a Roth ira. How am I going to find five grand a year to put into the Roth? But really, once you start digging a little bit beneath the surface, you're rubbing up against emotions. You're rubbing up against your history, you're rubbing up against family history, things your parents taught you. And those can be tough things to deal with. And she said also double the emotion if you're doing it with someone else. So if you're in a relationship and you're trying to attack these goals together, whether it's debt payoff, whether it's wealth building like you're when you double the emotion, you almost like, compound the problem. Dealing with your own emotion is one thing. That's what my wife is a marriage counselor and she says doing the counseling with couples is so much harder. It's almost like playing zone defense versus man to man. And so it gets more complex. And the truth is the same if you're in a relationship. And so being cognizant of the emotions that each of you is bringing to the relationship, finding outside help, finding if you need it in order to get on the same page, getting you dealing with those emotions in a positive way is what's going to help you make the progress. And it's going to hold you back if you don't. If you let those emotions linger and fester. And what Jade said right there at the very end, ten years from now, where are you going to be if you haven't dealt with those emotions? My guess is you won't have made nearly as much progress and you won't feel the positive impact of making that progress because those emotions left untended. So I'd encourage you to check out our book to think more about the role of emotions when it comes to your finances. And thank you as always for listening to this podcast. I really appreciate it. You find more info about Jade about her new book up on the website@howtomoney.com until next time, best friend out.
- [58:20]
You know what your customers are doing right this second? The exact same thing. You are listening to me, which, let's be honest, is kind of flattering. But my point Is ads on iHeartRadio actually get heard in the car, at the gym, on the couch, while people are walking their dogs. Who's a good boy? Who's a good boy? You're a good boy. That's right there. You're a good. So why not make the next ad about you? Get started today. Call 844-844-IHEART or go to iheartadvertising.com that's 844-844, iheart or iheartadvertising.com Dr. Laurie Santos.
- [58:51]
Dr. Laurie Santos
From the Happiness Lab here. It's the season of giving and this year my podcast, the Happiness Lab, is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the PODS Fight Poverty campaign. Our goal this year is to raise $1 million, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty. Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school, transportation, purchasing livestock or starting a business. Plus, if you're a first time donor, your gift will be matched by giving multiplier, which means more money for those in need. Visit GiveDirectly.org HappinessLab to learn more and to donate. That's GiveDirectly.org HappinessLab Hiring isn't just about.
- [59:39]
Indeed Representative
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- [60:35]
Jade Warshaw
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.