Loading summary
Transcript99 lines
- [00:00]
Matt
This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. At Navy Federal, it's been their mission to help members of the military, veterans and their families reach their financial goals. There are a lot of great flexible savings and investing options like certificates with sky high rates that allow you to add money anytime throughout your term.
- [00:18]
Joel
Plus, Navy Federal gives you access to financial advisors and online tools to help you find the investing and savings plan that work for you. Sign up@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union members are the mission savings products insured by NCUA Investment products are not insured, not obligations of Navy Federal and may lose value the New Year's here, which is the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. Here is how it works. Buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products, snap a pic of your receipt, upload it to cprewards.com and get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card as again, that's cprewards.com start your year.
- [00:59]
Matt
Fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive rewards available while supplies last. Limit Supply US Only January 1, 2025 through March 31, 2025 for full terms, visit cprewards.com hey there, this is Matt and Joel from the how to Money podcast.
- [01:17]
Joel
Indeed. And this spring is a great time to start thinking about travel plans for the summer, figuring out how you're going to pay for that travel as well. And one great way to financially support is to host your home on Airbnb. It's simple and a great way to make some extra cash.
- [01:33]
Matt
And now the Airbnb Co Host network makes hosting even easier. You can access a network of high quality local co hosts who can help you with everything. They'll handle all of the messaging with guests and make sure everything is ready for their arrival. Find a co host@airbnb.com host welcome to How2Money. I'm Joel. I'm Matt and today we're talking Make More Money, Do More Good with Derek Kinney.
- [02:14]
Joel
Yeah, so Joel, I would argue that money isn't inherently like a good or bad thing. You know, it's not. It's not holy, it's not evil. But I do think it comes down to what you do with it that makes the world a better or a worse place. I think that's at the heart of Derek Kinney's best selling book, Good Money Revolution. What are you actually doing with your money? You know, like what action are you going to take? That's the BIG question. And we're joined by Derek today, who works to inspire individuals to use their wealth in order to align with their personal values and to make more money so that they can create even more of a positive impact out there in the world. We think hopefully folks will be motivated to make a bigger difference after hearing our conversation today. But, Derek, Kenny, thank you so much for joining us on how to money.
- [02:59]
Derek Kinney
Hey, my pleasure, Matt and Joel, it's a pleasure to be with you both and I'm looking forward to this conversation. Thanks for having me.
- [03:05]
Matt
Of course. Yeah, us too, Derek. First question we ask everyone who comes on is what do you like to splurge on? Give us a little insight into you. But also, we know you're saving, you're investing for your future, but. But you also got to spend money on fun stuff in the here and now, too. What's that for you?
- [03:21]
Derek Kinney
Well, it's interesting. I will readily splurge on, of course, Sour Patch Kids, those thick Hershey bars that I love. I just love those things, man. They're so good. Really, anything that connects me better to my kids. For example, if one of my kids comes and says, hey, can we download this or do this or that, and we're going to spend time together in the Jeep, maybe listen to it. I'm all about that. But it's interesting though, I was thinking a little bit more deeply. Deeply, though. The book is about making more money, doing more good, and it's really a reflection of how I am in my deepest part of my soul. And so I would readily splurge to support a cause that somebody else is involved in. If I was going to spend money on myself or choose to donate it or support a charity, I would do that. For some reason, it just motivates me. But, but also, I mean, I guess a splurge might be eating out a good prime rib somewhere. A good thick party.
- [04:24]
Joel
You're finally speaking Joel's language.
- [04:26]
Derek Kinney
Yeah, that'd be a nice splurge there.
- [04:28]
Joel
No, no, I think that's great. It's very on point as far as being generous with others. But you know, I also like the splurges on candy. Different things that connect you with your kids. That's. Yeah.
- [04:38]
Matt
Sour Patch Kids.
- [04:39]
Joel
That's awesome.
- [04:39]
Matt
That's a double whammy. Cause you get to Joel's all about it. Enjoy them yourself, but also enjoy them with your children. I like that.
- [04:46]
Joel
Derek, let's kind of get to One of the core thesis of your book is the fact that you say that Money is a good thing, but not everybody feels that way. In our culture today, there's a lot of wealth and money, and people who are rich are evil. Can you present an argument against that?
- [05:03]
Derek Kinney
This is where this came from. I built one of the nation's top financial planning companies over the past 25 years. I sold it a couple years ago. And what I found is I would talk to people. This vibe would come out in their conversation. They would say things like, well, Derek, if I'm too successful, people will like me, and if I make too much money, people will think maybe I cheated my way to do it. Or these people that own major, major companies that provide great value to people, those people have to be oppressing their workers and hogging all the money for themselves. And as I heard this more and more, I was beside myself because I have all always enjoyed money. I've enjoyed making it and investing it. And it's what led me to then build a business to do that for other people. And I began to delve deeper and I realized there's sort of this cultural vibe that says, you know, in the Bible, it talks about the love of money is the root of all evil. And I think we can take that way, way, way, way, way, way too far. And it's not saying that the love of money causes your life to be terrible and you're going to lose everything. It's just what are you put and all of your hope and is it money or is it what money can do for you? And so that's where this kernel was born out of, was don't say to yourself, I don't want to make money because I don't want to be viewed as that evil, vile, greedy person. Instead, let's reframe that and kind of rescript the model here and say, go make a lot of money by adding a lot of value to people's lives, but then use that money for good. And then what happens when we do that? It motivates you in a fresh way. It's the antidote to burnout. It's the antidote to lack of meaning and purpose by when you have a cause. And we'll talk more about this as we get deeper into this. But when you have a cause that you care deeply about and motivates you to think outside of yourself, and you want to do everything you can to help that cause and help a person impacted by that cause improve their lives.
- [07:14]
Matt
So I am curious about, like, the pursuit of money. You're saying, hey, even pursuing more money, not, not Evil unto itself, as long as it's not maybe your core purpose. Is there a limit though to that kind of thinking? I think we've just seen so many people say, well, money's not bad, so let me go make a lot of it. And some of those people have been maybe lost to what I might call the perpetual hamster wheel of living to make money. And a lot of those people then have regrets on their deathbed like I did make money. Making money too central to my life. And I probably should have lived in a more well rounded way. I don't know. What would you say to that?
- [07:52]
Derek Kinney
Well, it's funny you say that because one of my favorite movies, Braveheart and other movies like that, there's the main character in the movie that says, if only I had lived a life of more meaning and if I had been kinder and all these regrets. And really what the book's central purpose is is to be against regret. We're against living a regretful life. And so I am highly motivated money and it's what drives me to be a good financial advisor and I think build and net worth and so forth. You have to really enjoy it. But what I find is when I first began building my net worth and I set a goal to become a millionaire, it was all about becoming a millionaire. And that's the only lens I saw through. And what it led me to do then was maybe make some shortcuts in my relationships and not spend as much time with family and friends. I was just driven, I was a driven puppy to achieve this goal. And I wanted it now and didn't want to wait for it. But then when I had this epiphany that awakened my eyes to say, man, if I tie a cause to my cash and profits to my purpose and a movement to my money, you know, meaning to it that made it palatable of like, why do I want to go make money? And it wasn't just the burnout of I just want to build a bulging bank account. Now there was a real purpose tied to it and once I did that, now I don't believe that there's any limit. How much is enough? I don't know. That's up to each person to figure out. But what I do know is you can't outgive yourself when there's a cause and there's something you're passionate about. Let that be the fuel that motivates you because you're either going to be a driven, lonely person or a driven person who is making the world Better. And when you lay your head on the pillow at night, one of them lets you sleep a whole lot better.
- [09:44]
Joel
All right, so Derek, you said you sold your financial planning company. I mean you, I'm curious like, as far as, like when it comes to like your own personal journey, like, and you just shared that you got to a point to where like your eyes were open and it seemed like you sort of pivoted. Was that difficult for you to do? Like, was it difficult for you to sell your company and sort of change your purpose? Or was that something that you were motivated to do? Like, were you wanting to get out of it? I'm curious what caused that change to come about?
- [10:11]
Derek Kinney
Yeah, two things. Let me go back and take you back to a 26 year old who was a brand new financial advisor. So I was stuck in a dead end job at this very small technology company in Fort Worth and I got passed over for a big bonus and two other people in the company did as well. And it was this moment where I had to think to myself, do I want to let myself be dictated my value by someone else? Typically that's going to be a 4% value increase every year with a raise or do I want to bet on myself? I'm 26. I didn't have a whole lot of risk, except there wasn't a whole lot of money in my own bank account. So I chose the financial advisor path. I saw my parents struggle, their friends struggle, and I didn't want to see that anymore. I wanted to help people like my parents do better financially. I went back and got my licenses while I was working full time and did that. But I didn't have the gene pool of the popular kids. I didn't have all the community contacts, the country club membership. I look like a 13 year old is really what I look like. And here I'm asking people to invest with me. But I had this passion and the passion was I wanted to go back to my alma mater, high school, because nobody ever did. When I was a senior in high school, no successful business person ever came back and gave us a vision as to what our future could look like as a high school student. They always said, just take your math and science and history and everything will work out fine. Well, nobody gave us a sense of how do these things really work in the real world. And I said, that's just not right. So I talked to the principal, he said, yeah, we'd love to have you. So I came armed with a $50Amazon gift card and a $25Amazon gift card. And I gave the $25 one to a student of the month and the $50 one to a teacher of the month. And it was my small itty bitty way of breathing life into these people, giving them a sense of how much they mean to the student, letting them know how bright their future was and to the teacher, letting them know that, you know, you're the type of teacher that on Thanksgiving and Christmases, years from now, it'll be your name that gets brought up as having made that impact on students lives. And I thank you for that. Well, I didn't think much of it, but we took a picture of the teacher and the student, myself and the principal, and put this in the newspaper back in the day. Well, a couple months go by doing this pretty consistently. I get a phone call and there's a woman that says, and what she said to me completely changed how I thought about my business. And she said, derek, we know you're young, but we want to invest our portfolio with you. I should not have said it this way, but I said, why? I'm brand new, don't really know what I'm doing. She said, we know you've got great credibility, we see you in the community. But she said, we want to work with you because you care about what we care about. It was those words that changed everything for me. And I realized, wait a minute, this is not about being the best looking or the smartest or having the most contacts and relationships. It's simply about me caring about what the people I want to work with also care about. And so I began to do these recognitions at all the local high schools, even some of the elementary schools. And that lady became my first million dollar client. And what it taught me was people are drawn like a magnet, first of all to a professional that knows what they're doing. You can't give money and be a complete loser in what you're doing. Okay? You just can' you need to be a pro and be a specialist at it. But when you can solve people's financial pain points and you have a cause that when they work with you, they feel like they're part of something bigger. When you combine those two powerful elements, it becomes like a magnet that literally just sucks people in who you want to work with. And that's what happened and how we built our practice so quickly.
- [14:11]
Joel
So youyeah, I mean, it sounds like you had that vision, you had that mission kind of from day one as opposed to sort of an evolution of your own actual I guess personal journey.
- [14:22]
Derek Kinney
Yeah. It was funny because I enjoyed even as, gosh I was even in high school, I would set goals every year and I still have some of them in a file downstairs. I go back and look at them periodically. But I was just a very goal driven person. And I realized when it came to money, it was so much fun because being a financial advisor was like this ultimate win win job. It was like the more money that I help you, the client, client make, then the more money I get to make. It was this beautiful thing. We're both in the same boat, rowing together. It was amazing, that concept. And so what happened was what I realized if I want to really grow this thing. People loved a cause and so mine happened to be supporting and investing in young people. So we would have like our holiday event every year and a nice place to recognize and really make our clients feel valued. VIPs. But I would also have the principal of one of the schools be there that I would give these awards out and we'd even have a few students sometimes. And I got to tell you, I thought they were there to hear me talk, but they weren't. The highlight was hearing these students talk about, hey, because you're working with this group and they're recognizing us, this is the impact it's having on us. And the teachers talked about that on the principal. And what had happened was it became like this moat around our business because every day I learned that all of my clients were also getting prospected by other financial advisors to become their next client. And one of the best ways to defend against that was not to promise high returns and lower fees and all the things that people play in that comparison financial advisor game instead was provide great service, even charge at a premium for what I was doing. But the cause is what drew people in. It made especially busy people who want to give but they don't know how and they don't have the time to do it. It allowed them to feel like they were part of something bigger by working with us.
- [16:26]
Matt
That's cool. Yeah. I would say, Derek, that our country is a fairly philanthropic country. Individuals tend to be by and large reasonably generous, at least when compared to what happens in many other countries around the world. One of the things you said, although I don't know, that might be changing a little bit and probably has, it seems like over the last few years where maybe there are more mega donors and fewer small time donors, but you say that giving money away produces real and lasting happiness, which for all of the, I mean, Arthur Brooks writes a column in the Atlantic about happiness. How you become happy. Right. Is that the ticket? Is it giving money away? Is that how we get there?
- [17:07]
Derek Kinney
I think it's one of the ways, and I think it depends on what your individual motivation is. For example, if you like to make money, like I just enjoy making money, then for me, part of the joy is giving money away. Specifically, anonymously, if at all possible. That's even more fun. But there was a study done, a guy named Dr. Michael Norden, he was, I believe, a Harvard professor. He did this experiment on a college campus a couple years ago. I write about this in the book. And he gave a certain group of students a couple envelopes and they each had $20 in them. And to the one group, he said, by 5:00 today, I want you to spend this on yourself. You can buy whatever you want for 20 dol. Then we're going to have you come back and report how you feel about it. Okay? Then the second group of students, he gave them each an envelope with $20 in it. And he said, now I want you to give this money away to someone. You could buy something for them, you could just give it to them, you could do something with them and then report back at 5:00 how you felt about it. So the day goes on, they do what they do with their money. They come back at 5 o'clock, and Dr. Norton asks the group of students who were asked to spend it on themselves. And some bought like a music CD or some key or this kind of stuff, but none of them felt any noticeable increase in happiness. It was just, I bought something, it was nice, but it didn't generate any type of change in their happiness levels. Now, this other group talked about what they did. One bought a teddy bear for a friend, one took their friend out for snow cones, one bought some candy for a friend, et cetera, et cetera. And surprisingly, two days later, that group still felt an elevated level of happiness. And that was just based on someone else giving them $20 to give away to someone else. And so the whole concept of that experiment was that when you do give and you do something for someone else, it gives you this lasting, elevated happiness level. And one of the things, I mean, I think we can all relate to this is let's say that, you know, somebody would really like something, and let's say that it's a football and you anonymously give. You might leave it on their mailbox or on their door and you know they're going to get it and there's excitement in the back of your mind, like, they're going to see this and they're probably going to call and wonder who did it. And when we've ever done that in the past, it's always kind of fun because. And again, this is in all humility, the giving piece is just what I enjoy doing. Our family just loves this. And so because it generates such great memories, but it also, we just find the more you give, opportunities tend to come your way. So in our Sunday school class back in the day, there was a couple who was really struggling financially and all of us kind of chipped in to help them put the deposit down for a new roof. Okay. And all of us did this anonymously. Nobody fessed up to it. Well, they happened to call me and say, hey, do you know anything about this? And I have never had a better poker face than, than any time in my life.
- [20:17]
Joel
So you lied, Derek. That's what you.
- [20:20]
Derek Kinney
I lied for the greater good. That's what I hold onto here. But it was so fun just to see the excitement and to see how when someone else impacts you, how good it makes them feel. But now I've learned it's really the giver that receives the most blessing. So to me, it's more fun. So the whole model of the book is, I call it Good Money Revolution, meaning when you're making more money, then you can do more good. And then when you're doing more good, it motivates you to make more money and just the cycle continues and continues.
- [20:51]
Joel
So truly you do believe then that the more money you have, that's going to lead to greater levels of happiness. Not because you are self centered and you're spending it on yourself to buy a CD which feels a new album today or some kind of Amazon Music subscription. There you go, there you go. But because you're actually spending it on others. Not that someone would do this, but someone could hear this and say, okay, well, I'm just going to give away every. I'm going to live in poverty. Like, I guess someone could take it to an extreme. Have you seen in your research, given your clients, given you personally, that there is, I guess, a type of diminishing return to the happiness that you would receive by giving away more and more money?
- [21:33]
Derek Kinney
Yeah, there could be. What I do is I tie it back to my motivation. Okay, so I'll give you an example. There is a pastor that we have an arrangement with and he does a lot of overseas mission work. And so we just told him whenever you need A ticket to pay for you and your wife to go over there to do your mission work. We will pay for that ticket. Okay? Now, inevitably, the month when that email request comes out of the blue has been a down month for me financially, okay? And so what that pre decision allows me to do then is say yes, and then we figure out how to do it. What I find is giving can be structured in different ways. Some people like to give based on money they already have. Now, what I'm going to say next is going to sound crazy, crazy, but it may connect with a few of your listeners. Some people like to give with money they don't yet have. And so they make the commitment to give. And now they know I need to put my butt in gear to grow my business, hit this goal so I can fulfill that commitment. It's kind of called backing. You know, putting yourself against the wall, burning the ships, and you've got to make this happen. So that can be a way where you're both giving, but also now you have a sudden fire underneath you to motivate you. I've got to go grow this thing to do and make the commitment that I made. So what I find is whatever motivates you is what to tie into. So let's say you're listening right now and you say, you know, I really feel like, like all the plastic bottles in the ocean, it's just wrong. I want to do something about that. Or when I pull up to the stoplight and I see a homeless person with a cardboard sign, I want to do something meaningful about that. For me, I look back and say, I wish people would have invested more in me when I was in high school. Nobody did. And so I don't want that to occur to somebody else. That's why investing in young people is so passionate. Once you figure that out, then it's not a matter of, well, I've got to wait until I've got $1,000. I've got to wait until I've got $10,000 to make any impact. What I'm going to share with you flies in the face of how math typically works. Okay? So we need to suspend math for a second because most people believe that the future value of money is always greater than the present value. I mean, that just makes sense, right? But what we find is when people wait to give, there is a cost of impact that occurs. Because if I give a smaller amount today, there's an impact. If I wait, there's an impact that's lost. Even though the impact may be greater down the road. So when it comes to giving, what I would tell people is the present value is always greater than the future value. If you have $5 today and you're tight on your budget, when you hold that $5 bill in your hand, you have control. You may not feel like any other part of your life is in control. Right now, you're totally out of control. Everybody else is telling you what to do with your life, but with that $5, you have a moment where you get to choose what you do with it. And that is powerful. That's agency at its highest level. So if you want to give the $5 or $10, $20, the key is that you do it. And even better, enroll your family in it. If you have young kids, this is especially powerful to bring your kids around the dinner T we've set a family goal. We're going to give this $20 or $50, whatever the dollar amount is, even $5. Is there a cause, kids that you care about? Is there a family at school that you've heard about that may be struggling? Well, now your kids have their giving antennas up, and you're training them in very, very practical ways that they can help have a giving heart but also make a real impact in people's lives.
- [25:27]
Matt
I like it. All right. I feel like we have set the table well on this one, and we got to get into some practicality. So Derek will dive into more questions with you about being generous right after this. Let's talk retirement for a second. To me, it feels like it's getting harder for people to reach their goals for the future. We hear about inflation, rate hikes, the changing market. Are we even saving enough? And things keep changing, Right? And here is where Fidelity comes in. Whether you're saving for retirement or close to living in it, Fidelity can help you get where you want to go, no matter your path or what happens along the way.
- [26:05]
Joel
Yeah, but how? Well, they'll help you to create a free, personalized plan that adapts as your priorities change. They'll also show you what's called timely insights. These are small tips on ways to save and invest to help meet your goals. And you can monitor your plans so you can stay on target. The future is coming, and so is retirement. Get ready to take it on@fidelity.com TakeOn.
- [26:28]
Matt
Expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE sipc the New Year's. Here is the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive from toothpaste to dish soap. So chances are you've got Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house. Right now we're talking brands like Colgate Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso, and Toms of Maine.
- [26:59]
Joel
And right now you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products. Here is how it works. Spend $20 on their products, get $5 spend $30 get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a picture of your receipt and upload it to cprewards.com it is so easy. Again, that is cprewards.com so grab what.
- [27:24]
Matt
You need or maybe try something new and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive rewards available while supplies last. Limits apply us only January 1, 2025 through March 31, 2025 for full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com AI is rewriting.
- [27:45]
D
The business playbook with productivity boosts and faster decision making coming to every industry. If you're not thinking about AI, you can bet your competition is this is not where you want to drop the ball. But AI requires a lot of compute power and with most cloud platforms, the cost for your AI workloads can spiral. That is, unless you're running on OCI Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. This was the cloud built for AI, a blazing, fast enterprise grade platform for your infrastructure, database, apps and all your AI workloads. OCI costs 50% percent less than other major hyperscalers for compute, 70% less for storage, and 80% less for networking. Thousands of businesses have already scored with oci, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters and Suno AI. Now the ball's in your court.
- [28:28]
Derek Kinney
Right now, Oracle can cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to OCI, minimum financial commitment and other terms apply. Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this Special offer@oracle.com strategic that's oracle.com strategic magic.
- [28:45]
Joel
All right, we are back from the break talking with Derek Kinney about being generous. And Derek, I, I feel like it can be hard to feel like that you have the ability to be generous. Like, I mean especially like these days if you're, if you're like the sandwich generation, you're trying to, you know, you're thinking about your kids. You're also Thinking about your folks, you're trying to be generous, but you're also trying to hit your own personal savings goals. Like what do you think of someone out there who's trying to find some balance between saving and investing effectively while still being generous? Is it just a matter of almost suspend, not suspending reality, but just what I heard you saying before the break was tying your generous giving, how you handle your money in regards to others, to a greater purpose, to something larger than yourself. Can you unpack that some for us?
- [29:31]
Derek Kinney
Yeah. Well, what I have found, and again this may not be a popular opinion because most people are living paycheck to paycheck or they're even living below that and wonder even have a dollar extra to give. What I find though is when you decide what's important to you, then everything changes. What I would say to that would be if there is a cause that you want to start giving to. Now I'm a believer, so I grew up tithing 10% to my church, etc. Etc. So 10% is always coming off the top. How I do that is the first of the month is when that 10% comes off the top. So I'm not in a situation where there's more month left left than there is money and then waiting at the end of the month to say, well whatever's left over is what I'll give and I'll save or I'll invest. It's like I treat it like a bill, not how I feel about it, but how I treat it. So that psychologically I know I've taken care of my most important things first. But one of the things that we have found, and I don't talk about this a ton in the book, but this is just as I talk to other successful people who have gone from middle class to millionaire, which is really my mantra now, is helping people escape the middle class and become millionaires. Millionaires is they had a generous mentality before they had the ability financially to be generous. And what that means is that they weren't thinking about huge dollar amounts, they were just thinking about in most cases, even though you may feel like you're dirt poor, you have more money than a lot of the other world has in terms of percentage. And so giving a small amount of that right off the top, it just makes you feel better and it kind of takes you outside of your own problems because we can get so self centered and so focused on just what's our life and what's happening in our little bubble here. But when you give you're leaving your bubble temporarily, and you're helping someone else in their bubble make it a better bubble. And to me, that's a great way to live.
- [31:28]
Joel
I love that. We say that sometimes, too, when it comes to investing. Like, sometimes folks, they don't have a ton of money to invest, but it's like, you know what? Even just investing a little bit, it makes you an investor. It's a skill. It's a practice that you develop, and.
- [31:41]
Matt
It changes your psychology to a certain degree in a helpful way. And I think the same is true of giving. Even if it's a small amount. It's like, now you're, like, on the path towards being a generous person.
- [31:50]
Joel
Your identity has changed a little bit too. You're like, now I am a giver.
- [31:53]
Matt
Yeah, there's something really healthy about that. Derek, we've talked a lot about giving, but it's interesting. A lot of what you talk about in the book, too, is increasing your earnings. The goal of that, in many ways, is so that you can be a more generous giver. But, yeah, what practical tips do you have for people who might say, man, Derek, earning more feels like a tall task. I'm over here making $18 an hour or something, and it doesn't feel like there are promotion prospects in the near term horizon. How do I go about making more money?
- [32:25]
Derek Kinney
Well, this is something I'm very passionate about because my first job out of college, I was passed over for a big bonus. And it really made me upset because I worked as hard as everybody else. But it came down this selective decision the boss made of, well, the engineers were more important than the marketing person, therefore no bonus for you. And it just taught me that when you put yourself in a position of letting someone else dictate your value, then you are devaluing yourself. Okay, I mean, this may sound very, very harsh, but all of us have a dollar amount on our heads as we're walking around. And what that means is that we're letting whatever we're getting paid right now dictate what our value is. When you cash your check every Friday, every other. Every other Friday, you're agreeing with the company that you're with that that's your value because you keep cashing that check. And there's only one way to change that, and that is to ask yourself, in my current job, can I get a raise? But more importantly, the bigger question is not just, can I get a raise? But in 2025, what is the income goal that I have? So when you ask that Question and you pull back from your current job situation and the limitations you're in and whether it's true or not or you're able to get a raise or not. Let's say that you're making right now $75,000 a year and your goal is I want to make $100,000. Well, in your current job, that may sound like a far fetched deal and it may be. Let's say you're a teacher. Well, you are not going to get a raise unless every other teacher in your district gets a raise. That's just the reality. Or if you're a nurse or a pilot or you work on the shop floor, whatever that is. And so you got to ask yourself, okay, a can I even get a raise in my job? And it's a valid question to ask. That way you're defining reality. So if the question is, no, I cannot get a raise in my current job, then you have to ask yourself, is this a job I want to stay in because I'm passionate about it, I just enjoy it. And then therefore we go then into this side hustle conversation. Or you may say, you know what? After looking at this exercise that Derek talked about, I want to look at getting a different job where I have the opportunity to make more money. Well, now you're changing a job, but I would submit to you also. Then looking at the side hustle would be very beneficial because what we learned in Covid was a lot of highly skilled, very, very educated, hard working, well meaning people had their entire job category wiped out of no fault of their own. And so I'm a huge proponent of you need to own a portion of your income so that only you can fire yourself. Only you can say to yourself, you're not going to get paid more, but at least you're the one making the decision. So now let's go to the part about if I want to launch a side hustle. So many people make the fatal mistake of, well, I've got to go back to college, I've got to get this advanced degree, I've got to get this certification. And then they keep delay, delay, delay and opportunity does not come their way. Instead, you want to ask yourself a couple simple questions. What do your friends and your co workers normally ask for your help with? Are you the paper proofreader? Are you the website developer? Are you the closet organizer? Are you the trip planner? Are you the organization queen? Are you the person that is able to take young kids and teach them soccer so they can score a goal, whatever that skill set is that comes to you naturally. And normally that people just ask you for. That is your focus group. I call it your financial freedom focus group, telling you, here's what you're good at, and therefore, because you're good at it, and we think you're good at it, and we keep asking you, because you're good at it, you can charge for it. So that's the easy way to parlay your skill set into that side hustle. But it all starts with, what is my income goal for this year? Once you have that, it becomes simply a math problem of how you solve it. Now, I don't want to oversimplify it, but if you're going to make more money this year than last year, you have to think differently. And that's what I'm offering you today.
- [36:33]
Joel
I like how you call those friends your financial freedom focus group. It's actually a free financial freedom focus group. Come to think of it, it reminds me one of the lessons that you share that like, that we are in charge of teaching our kids is to be the creator of money, not the receiver of it, which you laid that specifically out there for kids. But, I mean, you encourage all folks to consider starting their business. I mean, there's a difference, I know, between like a side hustle and starting your own business. But, like, where do you draw the line as far as folks who might be cut out for owning their own business as opposed to just kind of dabbling with the side hustle in their free time?
- [37:10]
Derek Kinney
Well, first of all, the reason I made that comment in the book was it's important for parents not to teach their kids based on only what they know. So many parents, unwillingly and actually unknowingly, I should say, give their kids a lid above their heads only because the parent themselves has a lid above their heads. And typically that verbally sounds like, you know, I don't want you to do that because you might lose money, or I don't want you to do that because you might get hurt or it might cost you the job. It's better to play it safe only because their parents told them the exact same thing. So I think right now, the wise parents said, look, I may not know how to do this, but let's learn together. Let's go on YouTube, let's buy a course. Let's figure out how while you're in high school or even in college that you can launch something that becomes your own, that could parlay itself into something full time. Now, what I would say to people listening Right now that are employees. And this, I think is one of the best hacks that you have. Most people who are cashing that paycheck have a paycheck mentality. And that is they think like an employee, whatever the title is on their business card, that's what they do. If I'm the marketing vice president, if I'm the general manager, the middle level manager, the executive assistant, that's what I do. And instead we want to twist that just a bit and really ask yourself the question, what is the problem that you are helping the company solve? What is the problem that you're helping them solve so they can make more money, save more money and be more productive? You see, you're no longer the title on your business card. You specialize in solving a unique problem and when you see yourself from that angle, your value goes up. And that gives you the ability then in your current job to say, now that I'm a problem solver and I have this unique ability in my skill set to solve this problem and it's actually helping the company make, save and be more productive. Now I can go to my boss and say, hey, you know, I'm a problem solver in this space and here's what it's been doing for the company. I've got a couple ideas I want to talk about with you. And I like to get a bigger raise. And based on if these things happen, let's pre negotiate what a salary increase could look like based on the value that I'm providing. Now what I didn't say, and I want to be very careful to say this is I didn't say go knock on the boss's door and demand a 4% raise or demand a 10% raise. That gets you nowhere. Okay, Ultimately, every boss, their favorite radio station is wiifm. What's in it for me? And they listen to it 24 7. And so when you play to that and you let them know, look, I'm a specialist, I love working here, but I want to help the company make, save and be more productive. That opens the door for you to be viewed as an entrepreneur inside of a corporate setting, which puts you in very rare air.
- [40:17]
Matt
I like that. Because not everyone's cut out to be an entrepreneur. Not everybody wants to go start their own business. Some people like the security of a 9 to 5 or they really like the job that they've been in for 15 years and they're like not looking to torch it in order to go start their own thing. So thinking of yourself as an entrepreneur Inside of a traditional business, I think is a way that makes sense for a whole lot of people. So let's talk to the people who say, all right, I've come up with this idea how much more money I want to make in 2025, and let's say at the end of the year, they hit that number. Using some of the stuff we just talked about, some of the tactics we just discussed, how do you suggest people go about increasing their giving as their income grows? Are you focused on increasing the total dollar amount? Are you focused on increasing the percentage? I know some people might say, especially, you know, you mentioned growing up in church and the tithe and 10%, cool. Well, 10% of 100,000 is way more than 10% of 55,000, which I was making last year. So I'm being more generous by default, or are you more intentional than even just that?
- [41:23]
Derek Kinney
Well, I like to keep it simple, and so I like to keep it as a percentage. And what I find is because I like to give more. If that's in your heart to say, look, I really see this pain point other people are in. I want to help solve that. And part of my rationale is to go make more money to do more good with it. Then I'm just simply giving more as I'm making more. What I find is, now, again, it's hard to slice this hair in half, if you will. I just find, personally and other people I've coached with this and have put this into practice is they are happier the more generous they are, and they want to then make more money to be more generous. Now, it doesn't mean that you have to. That making money is the precursor to being generous or being happy. But for motivated people that I'm typically around, whether they be other financial advisors or other entrepreneurs that I coach now to help them grow their businesses, I call this your generosity purpose. It's one of the five key steps that we weave into their business because it's the antidote to burnout. You know, if you're focused on, I just got to hit this sales goal and hit my revenue goal, and the goal is just the goal, then there's no meaning or purpose to that. But when you can think about even putting a little page on your website or a picture in your office of the school building that if I can help grow this business, I can help make that happen, or I can help these children be able to go to school and remind you and your clients as they come in your office, hey, this is a bigger cause. And So I just find the more you're making, the more it motivates you to be part of something big.
- [43:01]
Joel
I love it. Derek. We've got more to get to. We're gonna talk about focusing on mindset, I guess, and just how we can kind of break down some of the barriers and the scripts that we've constructed over time. We'll get to that more right after this.
- [43:18]
Matt
I love what I do. I also love the idea of not doing it one day. But it's getting harder to know the best way to move into the future towards retirement, right? We hear about inflation, rate hikes, the changing market, got to get the kids through college, build an emergency fund. Then there's retirement.
- [43:35]
Joel
And here is where Fidelity comes in. Fidelity can help you find clarity in saving for the future, even as your path and priorities evolve. How? Well, they'll help you to create a free, personalized plan that adapts as your priorities change. They'll also show you what's called timely Insights, which are small tips on ways to save and invest to help meet your goals. And you can monitor your plan so you can stay on target.
- [44:00]
Matt
The future is coming, and so is retirement. Fidelity can help you take it on your way. Learn more@fidelity.com future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services Member NYSE SIPC the New Year's Here is the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. From toothpaste to dish soap, chances are you've got Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house. Right now we're talking brands like Colgate Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso and Toms of Maine.
- [44:38]
Joel
And right now you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palm products. Here is how it works. Spend $20 on their products, get $5. Spend $30, get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a picture of your receipt and upload it to cprewards.com it is so easy. Again, that is CPR.
- [45:02]
Matt
So grab what you need or maybe try something new and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palm Olive Rewards available while supplies last. Limits apply us only January 1, 2025 through March 31, 2025 for full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com.
- [45:22]
Joel
Hi, this is Joel and Matt from the how to Money podcast.
- [45:26]
Matt
We're almost out of the cold winter months and the way I plan to help myself make it through is to think of the great travel I have planned this summer. Like the road trip I want to take with my kids out west. I'm going to take the whole month out off head towards Seattle for my cousin's wedding by car. I'm already plotting all the different Airbnbs we can stay on along the way.
- [45:43]
Joel
Nice. I think that's a great idea. There's nothing like a cross country road trip during the summer months. And staying at Airbnbs is a great way to experience all the different towns and cities on the route. Plus, while you're gone for this long stretch of time, you could also be hosting guests in your home on Airbnb, making some extra money in the process. I was an Airbnb host myself for a while and I loved it. It was easy and it gave me the chance to make some extra cash.
- [46:07]
Matt
And now hosting your home is easier than ever on Airbnb with the co host feature. Access a network of high quality local co hosts who can help you handle everything from getting your home ready to helping your guests once they arrive with whatever they may need. Find a co host@airbnb.com host all right, we're back. We're still talking with Derek Kinney, talking about making more money, which is awesome, and doing more good with that money being generous, which is also awesome. Two things I like Matt in his book. Derek, you focus a good bit on mindset, especially towards the end. I'm curious, what are the typical. Maybe knee jerk, no, thank you. This doesn't make sense to me. Responses you get from people when you're kind of talking through this framework. Because I think, is it just limiting beliefs of how much money people can make? Is it that this unwillingness to think they can be as generous as they would hope. What sort of pushback do you get?
- [47:01]
Derek Kinney
Well, let me tell you a quick story. So I was in the office on a Saturday morning catching up on some things, and I saw my voice smell like blinking. I had this decision to make. Do I press it and listen to it and maybe get off track or just keep working? And I just felt this voice inside say, you need to listen to that message. When I pressed it, I did not expect to hear what I heard. It was a woman's frantic voice that said, derek, Derek, I know it's Saturday. I hope you get this. They're about to send Me to jail. I need your help right now. Let me ask you guys this, has anybody ever said that to you, that if you don't help them, they're going to send you to jail?
- [47:37]
Joel
No. I was asked one time to get a friend's motorcycle because he was in jail.
- [47:41]
Derek Kinney
Okay, there you go.
- [47:42]
Matt
Matt has a lot of friends that have been to jail. Derek. If you hang around him long enough, you'll find that out.
- [47:46]
Derek Kinney
That'll be a different episode.
- [47:47]
Matt
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:48]
Derek Kinney
So I've never had anybody say this to me before. So I quickly called her back. I knew that bad news would not age well until Monday. And I said, I just got your message. What happened? She said, derek, I got this letter in the mail and it says they're going to send me to jail. I said, first of all, what does the letter say? Well, she described it. She said, basically it says you wrote a check and there was not sufficient funds to cover the check. And I said, wait a minute, why do you think that means they're going to send you to jail? So she begins to tell me a story. She says, derek, when I was seven years old, I overheard a conversation that my dad had with a local store owner. And the girl at the time heard the person tell her, dad, you bounced this check and I know you did it on purpose. I'm going to send the cops to your house and haul you off to jail. So as a seven year old girl, she grew up believing that if you bounce a check or make any type of, of substantial financial mistake, they're going to haul you off to jail. Now I told her on the phone, I said, first of all, they're not going to send you to jail. There's no need to get fitted for the orange jumpsuit over the weekend. You're good. I will call you Monday. I'll help you manually move money from savings. A checking will cover it. But more importantly, come in the office next week. Let's talk about this. She comes in the office and keep in mind, on the outside she looks like the most successful woman there is. She's been a client of mine for 10 years, but she rarely ever took my investment advice. She was so risk averse and she always complained about not making what she deserved and getting passed over for the promotions. So we dug in that visit together in the office and what we found was that these money beliefs that she had held since she was 7 years old, that if you make a mistake, you go to jail, if you make any type of bad financial decision, then you don't Deserve to have money, money that you don't deserve to have the finer things in life. Once we unpacked all that and she began to realize, oh my gosh, I didn't realize that was the case. She began a journey that within three months, a shockingly short amount of time, she got a $25,000 year raise, got the promotion she wanted, and most importantly, she finally took my investment advice. But here was this woman who on the outside looked like she had it all together, but on the inside, she was a wilting flower. I thought to myself, what a great example that she's not the only one. And even in my own client base, I didn't know it at the time, so I began to have more open dialogues about. Look, I know people talk about their mindset and it can sound kind of woo woo and fortune cookie ish, but ultimately, what you believe to be true is typically what comes to you. You, you know, when you look at these big sporting events and they go in the locker room with the camera and typically the athletes, men and women, they've got their headphones on, their eyes are closed, are they taking a nap? Are they thinking about how they're going to miss the shot? No, they're visualizing what success and winning looks like. And so that transformed my thinking about with my clients. They weren't just hiring me to be their financial advisor, but almost their mental guide in terms of, look, we need to be thinking well so that we can build, well, your portfolio.
- [51:05]
Joel
I love that. I think, actually Rabbi Daniel Lapin, he did a little blurb at the beginning of your book and I think about how so I actually read his book like 15, 20 years ago, and it had a pretty massive impact on how I see money. Right. And it literally informed how I viewed earning money and the value that we essentially put out into the world, which is, I mean, it's real similar to your message. What is your best advice for folks out there who have realized that they have been thinking about money all wrong? Like, what is your advice for them? To flip the script. Because it feels like it takes longer to change your mindset than it does to do almost anything else within personal finance? How would you recommend for folks to address that?
- [51:44]
Derek Kinney
Well, two things. And I say this kind of, kind of cheeky, but don't die before you're dead. Don't have this mentality that, well, I'm too old. What I've done, I'm locked in. That's the life I'm going to have.
- [51:57]
Matt
So you're saying you can teach an old dog new tricks.
- [52:00]
Derek Kinney
Yes. And you can teach multiple types of dogs and even cats new tricks. But we want to take that piece of paper, crumble it up, and throw it out the window. And what I would tell people is, look, we only get one life. And so what you want it to be, it gives it the best chance for it to be that way. And one of the exercises I give to people, and this is going to sound crazy, but it's step one of what I call the Millionaire Money map, and that is set five meaningful goals. And one of the exercises of that is after you set those goals, is to write on a note card your ideal year as though it's already happened. And you're writing down 2025 was my best year ever, financially. I paid down this debt, I saved this amount. My relationship with my spouse is the best it's ever been. My kids and I have finally have open communication. We're going out to dinner with friends once a month. This was the best year I've ever had. The whole point is that you're writing with as much clarity and detail the ideal year that you want, that you may be thinking, how can I possibly get this? But you're writing it in a way where your brain and your subconscious mind thinks, well, I guess that already happened. We need to go make that happen. And so part of that is this jolt of reminding yourself and looking at that note card on a daily basis reminding yourself, this is my ideal year. Anything less, I'm settling for less. When you picture that, it begins to focus your mind on what's possible, because the reality is life will come at you hard. I'm a big goal setter, and if I don't look at my goals every couple days, I can forget about them. You're easily distracted. There's kids needs, there's my aging parents needs, there's business needs, friends needs, all this stuff happening. And without you taking a few minutes every day to determine that's where I'm going and I want to make sure I'm on the path to get there, you can easily end up someplace you never intended to be.
- [54:01]
Matt
Yeah, it's a great point. It's easier to meander through life than it is to go in a specific direction that you have outlined for yourself. So, Derek, that's great advice. Hey, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. Where can our listeners find out more about you and more about your book?
- [54:18]
Derek Kinney
Best place would be to go to anyonecanbecomeamillionaire.com is our website. There's also a free downloadable that's been very, very helpful for people. They tell us that you can go to gettheriseyou want.com gettheriseyou want.com It's a downloadable about how to get paid more in your current job. And then Instagram is a great way to follow us at derektkenney.
- [54:41]
Matt
Awesome. Very cool. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
- [54:44]
Derek Kinney
Thank you, Matt and Joel. This was a great conversation. Thanks for having me.
- [54:47]
Joel
All right, Joel. I feel like this is hopefully a thought provoking episode for a lot of folks out there. This is one of the things that you can do with your money. One of the ways that you can spend it that we don't often talk about, right? Like you earn it, you can spend it, you can invest it, but we don't often talk about giving it away.
- [55:04]
Matt
I think too, those two things combined, they often feel like polar opposites. Make more money, give more money away. It's like, which direction will I choose? And Derek saying, no, no, you can.
- [55:14]
Joel
Choose both, you can do both.
- [55:15]
Matt
And I think he's spot on. And maybe that's my big takeaway is like that those things, those things are not in direct opposition to each other. They are not polar opposites by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, you can be more generous the more you make. And that driving principle of wanting to be more generous can actually be the fuel to help you think more creatively about making more money. So it's something I hadn't really thought of in those terms until I stumbled upon Derek's work and dove into his book. And then I was like, wait a second, you're right. Like those things actually are not only not mutually exclusive, I think they can intertwine really nicely together and push you in a really positive direction.
- [55:56]
Joel
Totally. Yeah. And on a practical note, one of the ways that you can actually implement a plan to give your money away, and this is when he was kind of talking about structuring it. Some folks like myself need some organization. And one of the things he said and he's like, this might be a bit controversial, but to commit to giving that money away even before some of that money is necessary, completely in hand, little pre committing. Yeah, well. And like a lot of organizations do this, but that's a pledge, It's a giving pledge. It's saying, hey, I'm going to commit to giving this amount of money. And like you've set sort of the standard. It's almost like I was going to jump in and interrupt him, but I didn't want to interrupt them. But, like, it's like signing up for a race, and this is something that you've been doing more of lately, Joe. But once you've signed up for a race, it's on your mind, and you're like, all right, well, I know I've got to do that.
- [56:38]
Matt
That's a great.
- [56:39]
Joel
And so because of that, that's going to kind of motivate me to get my butt out there. I'm gonna freaking hit the trails.
- [56:43]
Matt
If I've got a half marathon on, you know, on the calendar three months from now, you don't want it to.
- [56:48]
Joel
Suck the entire time.
- [56:49]
Matt
It will motivate me to get out and run next week.
- [56:52]
Joel
Right, Exactly. Yeah. So I liked how he mentioned that because on one hand, someone who's more financially, I guess, conservative would push back and say, no, no, no, you can't. You can't commit to giving money away that you don't have yet. But I see the sort of, like, dangle the carrot motivational side of that. But then he was talking about making your giving a priority, and just at the top of the month, making sure to give that away. Like, you have the ability to prioritize that giving, to treat it like a bill. Not from a mental standpoint. Right. Like, not from, like, oh, I got to do this thing. Like, no. Hopefully, folks are giving happily, joyfully. Right. But I think the point that he was trying to make is that by making sure you're doing that first, well, you have no way of having run out of money, because guess what? You already gave that money.
- [57:36]
Derek Kinney
Yeah.
- [57:37]
Joel
So, yeah, I like that. I felt like those were a couple good, practical tips.
- [57:40]
Matt
That's right.
- [57:41]
Joel
But let's get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode, which was a Lower Falls IPA by Highland Brewing out of Asheville, North Carolina.
- [57:48]
Matt
What'd you think, Matt? This is what the kids refer to as a session ipa.
- [57:52]
Joel
It totally is. It doesn't say session anywhere on here, but that is what this is.
- [57:56]
Matt
Yeah. Which basically means it's low abv, and that's kind of nice. It also. It just means it's a very chill vibe coming forth from this ipa. And we're used to the big heavy hitters, the mouth busters, the ones that just assault your taste buds. This was nice, clean, and to me, it had more flavor than most session IPAs, too. I'm thinking for something, it's 3% or whatever. This had actually a lot of IPA flavor going on. This is like one of those I would put regularly in my fridge. If I'm like, oh, I want some beer on my tongue, but I don't want something massively abrasive and huge.
- [58:33]
Joel
It's light, citrusy, fresh. These are all thoughts that were going through my mind as I was drinking it. By the way, it's called Lower Falls ipa. Do you know what Lower Falls is referring to?
- [58:42]
Matt
I'm guessing somewhere in Asheville.
- [58:44]
Joel
Yeah, it's. I'm pretty sure it's, I'm assuming, assuming it's referring to Graveyard Falls, which is like a series of waterfalls up there. There's Upper Falls, Lower Falls. Awesome swimming spot in the middle of the summer. A great way to feel refreshed. Not unlike drinking this beer, but true story. That's going to be it for this episode. We'll make sure to link to some of the resources that Derek mentioned there at the end and you can find those up on the website@howtomoney.com buddy, that's going to be it. So until next time, Best friends out. Best friends out.
- [59:26]
Matt
Even if you're a money whiz, it can still be helpful to have some professional backup and advice. I talk about personal finance every day of my life. I was still able to get massive value you chatting with a CFP from Domain Money. They analyze every aspect of your financial life and help you build a personalized plan with clear steps to reach each one of your goals.
- [59:50]
Joel
That's right, and for a limited time they're doing free 30 minute strategy sessions. So start today by booking a free strategy session with one of their experts by going to domainmoney.com howtomoney I am.
- [60:02]
Matt
A current client of Domain Money. I received a financial plan as part of the compensation for Domain Money's advertising on the podcast and therefore I have an incentive to promote Domain Money the.
- [60:12]
Joel
New Year's here, which is the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. Here's how it works. Buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products, snap a pic of your receipt, upload it to cprewards.com and get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card. Again, that's cprewards.com start your year fresh.
- [60:34]
Matt
By earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palma Olive Rewards available while supplies last. Limit supply us only January 1, 2025 through March 31, 2025 for full terms, visit cprewards.com your stomach is a mess.
- [60:48]
E
And you feel lousy. Something is just off. But you don't know what. Yeah, we get it. You've tried every fad, diet and supplement under the sun, and none of it worked. Here's the truth. Your gut's a mess and your body is letting you know you're just too busy and you ignore the signs making it worse. Biome gets straight to the point, analyzing your gut microbiome to give you a personalized health plan that actually works. Your gut is how your body processes everything that you consume. Stop ignoring the signs. It's time to do something real. Get viome and fix your gut. Now dial Star Star gut to get $110 off any test that's Star Star488 to receive a link to the offer.