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- [00:00]
Ashley Piper
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Joel
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Joel
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That's right, whether you've switched jobs or are just organizing your finances. Learn more@fidelity.com rollover consider all your options and the applicable fees and features of each before moving your retirement assets. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE SIPC hey there, this is Matt and Joel.
- [01:13]
Joel
We're from how to Money.
- [01:14]
Matt
Yeah man. So buddy Kate and I, we've got our anniversary coming up and we are planning an outdoor hiking and dining trip. Might even check out some art galleries this time.
- [01:23]
Joel
Sounds amazing. Very cultured. Do you have a destination in mind?
- [01:26]
Matt
We not yet, but we are thinking somewhere out west and of course we'll be looking for an Airbnb to stay in. It's always great to find a place that feels like home while we are out there exploring new areas.
- [01:37]
Joel
Totally. And you know, while you're enjoying your trip, you could list your own place on Airbnb. With the co host feature it's easier than ever to manage your reservations and guests, making hosting stress free and allowing you to make some extra money. Find out how much@airbnb.com host welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel. I'm Matt and today we're talking no New Things with Ashley Piper.
- [02:18]
Matt
I am pretty sure that everyone listening will want to either get out of debt, they might want to cut some clut, crush other goals they have in their life, maybe even become healthier and happier. Or actually why even choose? Why not select d all of the above because that was the outcome of our guest today, Ashley Piper, who documented her journey and her new book no new things came out. Gosh, not last month. Ashley is a political strategist turned sustainable living expert, and she's out there. She shared her message as a professor in Chicago on Good Morning America to her TED Talk as well. And basically, like all the different spots, you can share your message in between as well. So we're really excited for our conversation with you, Ashley. This isn't a message. This isn't gonna be an episode for just the hoarders out there, but for all the folks who are partaking in conditional or conditioned consumerism. And that's what your book is all about. So thank you for talking with us today.
- [03:14]
Ashley Piper
Oh, thanks, y' all for having me. I'm very excited. And you hit the nail right on the head. I think a lot of people here know new things or they think, oh, this is like a finance esque or finance adjacent book. I need to be in dire financial straits or be a borderline level hoarder to benefit from this. And actually, no, I think most of us fall victim to what I'd call conditioned consumerism. So it's kind of an everyman's book, if you will.
- [03:40]
Joel
And every woman. Let's not leave that.
- [03:42]
Ashley Piper
And every human. Every human. You want to throw animals in there.
- [03:46]
Joel
That's right. That's right. Yeah. All the cats out there, what kind.
- [03:48]
Matt
Of access does your cat have to click to buy? That's the question I have.
- [03:52]
Ashley Piper
He's working on his literacy, but he's great at online payments.
- [03:55]
Joel
It doesn't make me think about the. The recent story of the young child buying, what, 70,000 lollipops on Amazon, much to his mom's chagrin. That was. I think they got a refund, but. Okay. First question that we gotta ask you, Ashley, is what do you like to splurge on? Because you're apparently not buying new things. So what is it that you do spend money on? Even though you're being smart, you're saving and investing for your future?
- [04:15]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, so what. I mean, I don't buy new physical things very often and especially not when I'm doing like the no new things challenge. But I do tend to. I'll splurge on experiences. I think part of the challenge and part of kind of my personal ethos is this isn't a no buy challenge. I want people to go out and go to museums and concerts and all that stuff. So things I splurge on, I would say it's twofold. One, it's concerts. And only recently has that become a splurge. It's not like I'm getting like the dopest seats of all time or anything. It's just because concerts are so freaking expensive now, like with all of the fees and everything. And the other thing is I get my nails done once a month and that's something that I. And it's not even like elaborate getting my nails done. I think nail enthusiasts would see my nails and go, nothing special. But for me, I get like the gel nails because I'm really rough and tumble with my hands and like I'm washing dishes, I'm wrangling animals at the shelter, whatever it is. And so I like to have the gel or the dip overlay that makes them really strong.
- [05:19]
Matt
Dip overlay. It sounds like some sort of clear coat that they are trying to upsell you at the car dealership.
- [05:24]
Ashley Piper
It is a powder. It is a powder they dip your nails into and then it's probably not very healthy for you. But I really, I like it and I've been doing it for years and I'm still alive. So there you go.
- [05:35]
Matt
Well, if this is what you're doing, like, it sounds like that you've got a long ways to go on your nail journey. What do actual nail enthusiasts like, what are they doing? How are they taking it to the next level? I guess what kind of money can people spend on a weekly or monthly basis?
- [05:48]
Ashley Piper
Well, I think a lot of folks probably get like really expert nail art. People get charms and they get extensions on their nails. Yeah. Where have y' all been? They got clear now.
- [06:00]
Matt
I'm hanging out with Ashley.
- [06:02]
Ashley Piper
No, no, my nails don't look like that. My nails look very regular just with like the dip powder. Like it looks like I'm just wearing nail polish. But they're. There are people who love to get very adorned nails that have charms hanging off of them and like, like sequins. Not sequins, but like gemstones. There's all sorts of. People can spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars just on their manicures. Yeah.
- [06:25]
Joel
Didn't know that was possible. Yeah, now I know. All right, question for you, Ashley. Let's. Let's kind of go back in time. For you, it sounds like before kind of getting into the no new things way ethos of living, you used to live a completely different life. You used to sleep with your phone under your pillow. You used to like working what seems like 24 7. What was your former life like? And then I'm curious too. What. What caused you to make a hard break from that way of living?
- [06:51]
Ashley Piper
Yeah. So I had moved to Chicago and I was working as a political strategist. And so the nature of business was just very high touch, very immediate response. And there would be crises at any time of day and night. And I really appreciated the job and the career I built for myself. But I think a lot of us can relate to, we feel a little in over our heads as far as the scope creep and the time commitment of our jobs and like how it really bleeds into the rest of our lives. So I felt like I had no time outside of the job at all and like no boundaries around communication or having to hustle to fix a problem. Cause it's a very responsive kind of business. And so yeah, I was sleeping with my phone like under my pillow. I felt chronically stressed out. And then I was turning to shopping for probably the first time in my life. I think that's something that when people read the book they're like, oh well, Ashley Piper's just a shopping addict. And it's like, no, Doug, I like kind of developed a momentary, and I say momentary maybe for like six months way of coping with stress through shopping, through shopping and browsing and buying a bunch of stuff that I didn't need that wasn't right fit for my lifestyle. And that got me into a lot of trouble. And it was during that time period where I was kind of examining like, do I want to even still be working this job? Is it even healthy for me? And what am I doing with my finances? Like why am I shopping for things that don't have any utility in my life? They're crowding up my house and I'm spending a lot of money and amassing a decent amount of debt in a short period of time. Like this isn't healthy for me. What am I going to do? So it was a real self examination period and that's what led to no new things.
- [08:39]
Matt
Sure, yeah, it sounded like you became financially constrained and one of the solutions you had early on was just to buy cheaper stuff. Share why that didn't work out. Why wasn't that the solution?
- [08:49]
Ashley Piper
Sure, I didn't really enact that solution. But when I was doing this self examination and that was prompted by looking at credit card bills and my bank accounts and stuff like that, that I was like, holy moly, something has to change. And my initial impulse, which I think a lot of us have because we are those conditioned consumers, is not to not buy things, but rather to just buy cheaper stuff. And so I thought, oh, maybe I can go to Dollar General Dollar tree or like five below or like whatever. I was kind of thinking like, it's not the stuff that's the problem and it's not my consumption of it. I just need to be paying less for it. And look, I love a good deal, but that wasn't the solution to the issue. The issue was why am I buying stuff as a way of self soothing? Why am I buying stuff as a way of stress release? And so, yeah, that's. So I didn't really do have tons of success with like let me find it cheaper. I instead found a lot of success by let me see if I can focus on the things I welcome into my life and kind of turn off the tap on those.
- [09:56]
Joel
So I think in the book you describe it as being stuck in the work to buy swirl. And I think what you're looking for with the purchase, like with going online to buy stuff, was an emotional release, right? Because you were just up to your eyeballs in stress and anxiety from work and just feeling like you didn't have an outlet. Do you think that's where a lot of America is, where they're just, they feel overworked, like they're over, they're just putting too much effort into their job and they don't have a space for that release and so they put it into buying things?
- [10:31]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of us are in denial about it because it's again, consumerism is such a culturally ingrained part of how we live, especially in the global West. You know, buying things is a sign of, hey, you've made it like this is what a prosperous people do. So buying things and buying things as recreation or therapy, that's. That's stuff that's codified in just the way we talk. Like we say retail therapy or people will list as their hobbies on like dating sites or social media sites, they'll say shopping enthusiast or shopping is a hobby. So it's very much coded into kind of every way we exist in the United States. And in the book, I kind of talk about how that happened, how we went from being people who were pretty measured consumers that bought things for life and repaired those items and really didn't change shop as a form of recreation or stress relief to people who buy things for every conceivable human condition. Like you're sad, you buy something, you're stressed out, you're browsing things, you're excited, maybe you've got a hot date or something great happened, you're buying something in celebration. Consuming things is sold to us as an antidote for nearly every single uncomfortable or comfortable state that we experience as people. And so I think a lot of folks do buy for not just stress from their jobs, but maybe from their family arrangements, their living arrangements. That people shop when they're financially stressed, which seems like the most counterintuitive thing, but it's very, very real. And I've noticed when people start doing no new things like the 30 day challenge, they'll be a little resistant. I've heard from folks who are like, this isn't really for me, I'm not a shopping addict. And no, you might not be. But then as they go through it, they're like, holy crap. There's actually some stuff here that I didn't realize I was doing because I was like on autopilot, just buying stuff or consuming things. And it helps them to get a little bit more of a clear eyed view on how they've developed those habits and what they can do to potentially shift them.
- [12:33]
Matt
Yeah, yeah. It's one thing if you are doing it for fun. Like you mentioned just how some folks view it as recreation. But earlier or you said something about being in denial, which brings up a whole other way of looking at it that makes me think about addiction.
- [12:46]
Ashley Piper
Yep, right.
- [12:47]
Matt
Like, like if you are in denial about something, it means you typically have a problem. Do you think for most or for a lot of folks out there at least, that consumerism has reached that level where folks are addicted and it's truly something that they might need, like some intervention, like something done aside from the typical cycle that most folks find themselves in.
- [13:06]
Ashley Piper
So I think there's kind of a two part answer to that. The first is that yes, I do think that most of us are shopping addicted just because the very nature of buying things has all of the same hallmarks and biological exchanges as any other kind of addiction. The flooding of dopamine, the flooding of adrenaline, the leaving of those neurotransmitters from your body before you get the item, and then your brain habituating that whole process and going back to the well again to get that same rush. So that's the same for anyone who's into alcohol, you know, sex, cigarettes, whatever it might be. They have the same physiological exchanges going on in their body. So I would say yes, shopping is absolutely an addiction. Clinically, it's difficult to say how many people actually have a shopping addiction because society also moves the goalposts on what is a normal amount of shopping. So what was a normal amount of shopping in 1945? Is completely different than what it is now. And what was a normal amount of shopping and consumerism in 1995 or even in 2000 is very different than what it is now. So I feel like societally, we're also moving that barometer of like, this is too much. And now we're in a place where we actually don't have much of a barometer of this is too much. The limit does not exist.
- [14:30]
Joel
Basically, we've normalized it so intently, intensely.
- [14:33]
Ashley Piper
That's a much more elegant way of saying it. Yes, yes, we've normalized it. We're so desensitized to it that we're like, yeah, okay.
- [14:40]
Joel
Well, one of the things too, I think people might say is if they're unaware that it could be a potential addiction or that it could be a problem is, well, I should just outearn this problem. What if I just try to make more or, you know, go with a side hustle? Some people obviously take the easy way out of getting into debt. Buy now, pay later, we think is certainly one of those downstream impacts of people having like a shopping addiction. And it just makes that addiction feel less painful, which is not a good thing. One of the things you said too, is you chose to make less in order to claw your life back. So you're like, I'm working too much and I'm buying stuff to try to actually outdo the impact that it's having on me. What was that transition like for you making the choice to say, actually, I'm going to go in a different direction career wise, Because I think that's part of the problem. And making less, I mean, it seems like that would pinch you more financially.
- [15:31]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, it feels a little counterintuitive. So I didn't necessarily go through it saying I'm going to make less and have that be a constraint on me, you know, maybe changing some of my habits around buying. But I knew I wanted to leave my job and potentially pivot into sustainability work, which is what I've been doing since 2013. And that actually had some really positive dovetails with these more, I guess, frugal, no new things kinds of habits. So I found that a lot of the sustainable living shifts or habits that I had or I was adopting were also really good frugal habits. I always say to do something like no new things. Yes, there is some intrinsic privilege. We're probably were privileged people who are able to say, I'm going to just stop buying new things. But the constraints really did enable me to kind of more clearly Examine like I had fewer resources to play with. So that was helpful for me. But it wasn't an intentional choice to make less money. I wanted to get myself into a place where I had paid off the debt I had accrued in kind of that tremulous six months so that I could leave my job and pursue another career and build that career from the ground up. So that's kind of where I ended up. But I found that a lot of the habits that I adopted, doing no new things, really helped me to fast track that and just to be more prosperous than I ever was, even when I was making a bajillion dollars more. That's obviously hyperbolic, but I was making way more money obviously being a political strategist than I was working for myself being a freelance journalist talking about sustainable living. But I just found so many of those habits that intersected with eco friendliness also helped me to save money.
- [17:15]
Joel
Was. Was a less intense, less overwhelming career actually helpful though? From a. Hey, it's. It's not actually pushing me in that direction nearly as much anymore. I was so overstimulated maybe. And that sort of push to shop to relieve some of that stress because you had de. Stressed your career situation was that impactful on kind of reducing your felt need to shop?
- [17:41]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, I think it was almost like less the intensity or even because there's. I think there's like good stress. And I tend to be an intense person, so I bring intensity to like every piece of work that I do. So I'm like, nobody would meet me and go, gosh, she's so laid back that Ashley Piper. It's just not me. I'm always going to kind of be someone who's just like a dog with a bone, like, let's go. For me, it was purpose. My old gig had a lot of things that I felt very morally and kind of ethically not great about. I couldn't choose my clients, for instance. And so I would be creating marketing and messaging campaigns for people who I thought would make terrible politicians and didn't really care about people. And so that kind of ate at me after a while. And I think that's actually the locus of where a lot of the stress was coming from. When I got into sustainability, I found something that I was so enduringly passionate and excited about and excited about messaging that to other people. And it almost was like a more intense career, but one that I felt so much more purpose and belonging in that that just helped me to not feel stressed out. I felt driven, but not like, stressed in a bad way. And that alleviated a lot of those urges to, like, shop to self soothe.
- [19:00]
Matt
Makes sense. Sounds healthier as well. And you mentioned a date, 2013. It sounds like that's kind of when you started pivoting in that way. But then more recently is when you did this, the practice, the 30 days of not buying anything new. You got the new book. Did you feel that that was necessary in order to sort of jar you? Even though you were, like, you mentioned focusing on more eco friendly pursuits? Talk to us about that.
- [19:24]
Ashley Piper
Yeah. So I probably should tell, like, the villain origin story of no New Things. Ooh, cue the dark music. No, not even the villain origin story, but so no New Things really just started off as a personal challenge in 2013, I thought, wouldn't it be interesting to extend my sustainable kind of living values and also see if I can save some money and pay off some of this debt by not buying new things? Because I determined, like, the buying of new stuff was the problem area for me. And so I created the challenge just for myself, and the intention was just for me to do it for a month to see if I could do it. And this was not a new thing for me. I always had a little bit of a. Not masochistic bend, but like a could I do this challenge myself Type of attitude. Like, once I challenged myself to read all the books on my bookshelf before I watched any television. But now, granted, there were only, like, 10 books on my bookshelf, so. But. But still, that was. And I found that to be, like, a really rewarding challenge where I, like, was able to get rid of my tv. I didn't even care about TV for a while. Like, it was. I learned a lot about myself. So I'm. I do stuff like this sometimes. And so in 2013, I said, okay, one month, no new things. And I was kind of building a bike. As I rode it, I was like, okay, well, obviously I'm gonna pay my bills and I'm gonna get groceries. And at that time, the secondhand market wasn't nearly as replete as it is now. So obviously, I'm gonna get, you know, hygiene things that are best bought new. New. Like, people always think, like, oh, God, Ashley Piper's wearing used underpants and shoes. And it's like, no, guys, everything's fine. Please relax. Like, I am getting. You can get your needs met, like, by buying those things new.
- [21:04]
Joel
That's the one bin I see when I'm at the thrift store. And I'm always like, Oh, I don't know.
- [21:08]
Matt
Who does that?
- [21:08]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, your BVD's. Just get em. Get em. You know, get them secondhand. But so, you know, I had. I was kind of giving myself some of those caveats as I was doing it. About a week into doing it, I was like, whoa. I started to, of course, see some savings, because when you're not buying stuff, you're like, oh, look at that. I've got more money in my bank account if you're someone who's prone to buying a bunch of stuff. But the thing I noticed I got back so much more of was time. Now I was still working, like, my job and everything, but the time back, I was blowing so much freaking time browsing online, dicking around at TJ Maxx, you know, all this stuff. And I was like, holy moly. So I started almost be like, okay, there might be something to this that I wasn't even foreseeing. So I ended up doing no new things that time around for almost two years straight. So that's kind of where. And it was still just a personal challenge. So for almost two years, I just didn't buy anything new. And I kind of built the framework of no new things for myself many, many years later. Like, I think after my. It was. Even after my first book came out in 2018, I posted something to my pretty modest Instagram following, saying, oh, I'm doing another round of no new things. Cause sometimes I'll do no new things light. I'll do a month or two every year just to keep the habits sharp, to check in sometimes, you know, you want a little tune up, whatever it is. And so I posted that and I in the book, I liken it to. Y' all seen the movie Old School?
- [22:43]
Joel
Oh, yeah. It's been a minute.
- [22:44]
Ashley Piper
It's been a minute. But it's a classic, you know, but like, when Luke Wilson goes to his, like, accounting office or construction office or whatever, and he's in this, like, adult fraternity and all his co workers find out about it and they're like, cornering him at the copier, going, like, I need in, man. Like, I need this in my life. You don't know. I was getting like, all sorts of people on Instagram who were like, I'm curious about this. How do I get in to do it? So I said, okay, well, if y' all want some. A more shepherded version of this, you can do it alongside with me for this month. And then it just kind of happened that a few friends who are. Who have a much bigger social media reach than I do, also wanted to do it, and they shared it with their followers. So in the summer of 2022, which was we'd done a few rounds of no new things for 30 days, I had 12,000 people sign up to do no new things. And through their pretty unprompted, like, testimonials, they were messaging me, letting me know their progress. This is all, like, on Instagram, we're keeping it really casual. I was learning so much about the other kinds of benefits people were reaping by doing the challenge, by just kind of distancing themselves from this automatic consumerism. And it was. Some of it was really profound. I don't want to, like, sound egotistical or give it a lot of gravitas, but, like, some people had some really deep things occur because they did the challenge. And then people were saying, I'd like something that makes me feel even more supported. The Instagram thing is great, but it wasn't a course or anything. It was just me going, here I am, here's a post every day. And so people were asking for a book. And I had always kind of sworn up and down of not writing a second book. And then. And then I talked to my literary agent and here we are. Yeah.
- [24:33]
Matt
So, yeah, she's like, oh, my goodness, I've become a guru.
- [24:37]
Ashley Piper
No, I'm no guru. No, no, no. I'm not an influencer. I'm not a guru, but thank you.
- [24:41]
Matt
There's a certain something about folks reaching out to you and yeah, like, you start impacting folks lives in a positive way like that, at the very least, you're humble enough to say, all right, let me organize my thoughts, put them down on paper, and write the book.
- [24:53]
Ashley Piper
Well, thank you.
- [24:53]
Matt
Thank you for sharing that.
- [24:55]
Joel
I think I was struck too, when I read your book that and because I hadn't really thought about the impact of this, but the time reclamation part of no new things and you just highlighted it was so impactful for you. And I think people underestimate how often, and myself included, how often they jump over to a website, even if they're not buying anything but the browsing. The window shopping. Right. No, no shade on my mom, but it's like her favorite hobby is to go to antique stores or to. Even if she's not buying anything. Like, she loves that. And I think part of maybe what keeps us from some of those abilities to enjoy parts of our lives that we say we don't have time for is the amount of time we spend shopping. I Mean, do you agree? Do you think that's part of it?
- [25:40]
Ashley Piper
Oh, yeah, absolutely. That kind of goes back to like, you illustrated perfectly that autopilot piece we touched on at the beginning of this conversation, which is like, people are like almost in denial. They're like, that's not me. I don't have a shopping addiction. And it's like, sure, you might not have a shopping addiction, but do you know how much time you be spending doing shopping related activities? Like, the Department of Labor actually does an American time use study, which is really interesting from the perspective of just how Americans in different kind of demographic groups spend their time, spend their days. And if we break it down into just shopping, there's like anywhere from an hour plus that individuals spend just shopping each day. I think that's pretty conservative.
- [26:24]
Joel
An hour plus every day.
- [26:26]
Ashley Piper
An hour plus. Yeah, every day. But then if you go into looking at and kind of teasing out stuff, upkeep related activities, as in, oh, your things, you gotta go return them. That stuff that you bought, or, you know, you gotta clean the stuff you own, or you've gotta repair the things you own, or you need to.
- [26:45]
Joel
Or find the thing you own.
- [26:46]
Ashley Piper
Find the thing you own. In fact, that's my first favorite statistic that I have been hollering about for years is in that study. It says that the average American, that means each of us is wasting 55 minutes a day just looking for things.
- [27:02]
Joel
Oh my gosh.
- [27:02]
Ashley Piper
Which if you have children, you're spending a lot more than that, I have a feeling, you know what I'm saying.
- [27:07]
Matt
You gotta find their stuff.
- [27:08]
Ashley Piper
You have to find their stuff as well. Right. And so that tells me mostly shoes, we have stuff upon stuff. We are wading through stuff to find more stuff. And you know, the data also on just the size of our homes and how many things we have, like, supports that we are a society that's kind of buckling under the weight of our stuff, but it has not stopped us from buying more stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, I think you hit on that perfectly because shopping is billed as recreation and therapy. And it's so ingrained in just culturally, how we exist in the United States especially, we don't see it as a problem. And we don't know the time and the finances and stuff that it siphons from our lives.
- [27:48]
Matt
That's such a great visual, the US Society, culture at large, buckling under the weight of their possessions. I really like that.
- [27:55]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, we're just carrying it on our.
- [27:57]
Matt
Well, it's literally breaking our backs you know, like our financial backs.
- [28:00]
Ashley Piper
Yes. The average American throws out, like, it's something equivalent to about like 84 pounds of just clothes every year. And I like to, you know, doing sustainability work. I always tell people, imagine you're hauling that. Like, I'm really into hiking. Like, imagine that's on your back all day, every day.
- [28:17]
Joel
Like, that's like Quasimodo.
- [28:19]
Ashley Piper
Like Quasimodo. Very handsome guy. Like Quasimodo, you know, so it is a good, I think sometimes it's good to put that physicality to it and think of, like, we're buckling under it, baby.
- [28:29]
Matt
Yep. Yep. All right, we're going to get to how you can implement some of these different lessons and strategies with Ashley Piper. We'll get to that more right after this. The first step in solving any problem that we have in life, whether we're talking about a conflict in a relationship, why the check engine light is on. Right. Flashing on the car, or even why we can't seem to set aside enough money for different goals we have. The first step is to clearly define the problem. We've got to assess the situation, what's going on with your spending? And that is where Monarch money comes in. But Monarch is more than just a budgeting app. It works as your own personal cfo, giving you full visibility and control over all your accounts, investments, and financial goals.
- [29:14]
Joel
Monarch is truly a game changer. And I love how you can choose goals that you want to hit and then you can rank them in order of priority. It's pretty rad. It makes those goals a lot more concrete and tangible. My top goal has been funding our family summer travels.
- [29:29]
Matt
Nice.
- [29:30]
Joel
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- [29:41]
Matt
That's right, man. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code how to money@monimalmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year@monimalmoney.com with code. How to money.
- [29:57]
Joel
Let's talk retirement for a second. To me, it feels like it's getting harder for people to reach their goals for the future. We hear about inflation, rate hikes, the changing market. Are we even saving enough? And things keep changing, right? And here is where Fidelity comes in. Whether you're saving for retirement or close to living in it, Fidelity can help you get where you want to go, no matter your path or what happens along the way.
- [30:19]
Matt
Yeah, but how? Well, they'll help you to create a free, personalized plan that adapts as your priorities change. They'll also show you what's called Timely Insights. These are small tips on ways to save and invest to help meet your goals. And you can monitor your plans so you can stay on target. The future is coming, and so is retirement. Get ready to take it on@fidelity.com TakeOn.
- [30:43]
Joel
Expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE SIPC hey there. Joel here.
- [30:54]
Matt
And I am Matt. We are from the how to Money podcast.
- [30:57]
Joel
Matt, Summer is here. I could not be more excited for our annual family beach getaway together, my friends.
- [31:03]
Matt
Oh, heck yeah. I'm excited as well. This year we are taking our families on a joint vacation to St. Simon's. This is off the coast of Georgia. That's right, the Atlantic coast.
- [31:11]
Joel
And we found an awesome Airbnb that's perfect for everyone. The kids that are excited about exploring the beaches and, and the historic St. Simon's Lighthouse. I want to check out the historic oak trees this year, too. Plus, we got a great pool at the Airbnb, which our kids are going to love.
- [31:26]
Matt
It is going to be a blast. I can't wait, man.
- [31:28]
Joel
And you know what? That's what makes hosting an Airbnb so special. A stay at your place could be the highlight of someone else's vacation. So why not consider hosting your own home on Airbnb with the co host feature, it's easier than ever to manage your reservations and guests.
- [31:42]
Matt
Exactly, man. A co host can handle everything for you, making hosting stress free. Find a co host@airbnb.com host.
- [31:52]
Joel
All right, we're back. Still talking about not buying new stuff with Ashley Piper, who just wrote the book on it. And Ashley, let's like, go back to your personal experience a little bit. So you started this no new things challenge and I believe you. Like, I believe you started off as a 30 day thing and then you were like, I don't know, let's see if I can stretch it out. Didn't you do it for like, almost two years? Is that right?
- [32:11]
Ashley Piper
Two years? Yeah, just a little shy of two.
- [32:13]
Joel
Years, which sounds pretty countercultural.
- [32:18]
Ashley Piper
It was interesting. Yeah.
- [32:19]
Joel
What were the biggest hurdles and maybe like the hardest pivots you had to make during those two years?
- [32:24]
Ashley Piper
I mean, one of the hurdles was the secondhand market was not nearly as bustling as it is now. So we didn't have like the Facebook marketplaces and you know, stuff like that. And then all of these online retailers for clothing and beauty and all that kind of stuff secondhand. There were no like buy nothing groups. So I really had to cultivate. Cultivate. I lived in Chicago and still do, but I had to cultivate kind of a community and tap into resources around me, like free cycle, you know, the library, my friend group. So I think like one of the good pieces of that, though logistically at first it may have been a little bit of prep work, was that it helped me to have these great relationships that were very like reciprocal and symbiotic with people in my community and in my direct sphere, like my friends and family. So if someone needed something, they would come to me. You know, if they needed an outfit or whatever, like we would come to each other and before automatically going to buying something new, which so many of us are conditioned to do, you know, if we need something, we immediately fire up, you know, whatever on I was going to say, I don't know if I could say Amazon, but we immediately fire up Amazon and go and get the thing to be shipped to us.
- [33:38]
Matt
Sadly, my default.
- [33:40]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, all of us for real. So that was something that I think took a little bit of foresight, was just getting connected to kind of the resources or outlets that, you know, were going to be essential for me to get some of my needs met more secondhand. And keep in mind, these are just things. This isn't no new things like let you buy groceries, pay your bills, go out and have experiences, go on vacations. It's really just focused on physical things and kind of stemming the flow of new physical things into your life. So that was the most challenging part, was just that pre work. But then once I got into it, it was like, it was sweet and that's why I did it for so long. I'm also, you know, I might be a masochist as far as trying challenges, but I'm not bananas. You know, I definitely want to live a good and fun life. And I found my life was so much more joyful and healthier and every aspect of my life, like sword removing myself from consumerism as the solution to everything.
- [34:37]
Matt
Yeah, like, so you're, you're referencing your community and it sounded like you had like around 12,000 folks who were like signed up for the challenge there with you when you kind of did that more recently.
- [34:46]
Joel
Yeah, second round.
- [34:47]
Matt
Okay, Second round of no new things. But like, what are some of the more creative ways that you've seen folks within that community Solve some of these problems that they had. I mean, you're talking about loaning each other things, you're talking about free resources, the library, things like that. Are there some other kind of creative solutions that you would not have expected, but then you saw others implementing that in their own life?
- [35:08]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, I mean I find like people who had kids found great ways to, you know, I'm sure you guys have kids, so, you know, like there's a lot of kind of single use stuff that you have to buy each year and re up each year and so sharing school supplies that weren't used or instruments, you know, calculators, things like that. I found people who actually were parents had almost built in networks of sharing things because they had a kid who was older who didn't need that thing anymore. And then what are you gonna do? You gonna donate it to Goodwill where most likely 84% of that stuff will end up in the landfill or are you gonna see if your neighbor wants it? So I think like that was sort of a built in sharing network. There are all sorts of things, people who have hobbies or want to start something. There was a guy who had a lot of cameras that he used to tinker with and he wasn't really using them, but he knew that there were kids at like this rec center who potentially were interested. So he would go and show him how to fix cameras and also how to do photography. And he gave a bunch of them, some of his cameras to like use to take photos and do photos around like town that were for different causes. So at a senior center they took these beautiful portraits of some of the residents, like just, just kind of like a neat like resource sharing that also happened to do some good things. But people get very creative. I mean one of the things I this isn't necessarily like the sharing or community aspect, but one of the things I tell people to do in some of the early days of no new things, because the challenge is broken up every single day. There is an action action item, kind of a reason why you're doing it. And one of the action items is to block the shop to have like a love list, which is really like things that you can do that are not thing related. They're activities that don't involve buying something that can help you to distract yourself from buying something. So when you get that urge, you know, it's the midday slump, you're online going, ooh, that looks good. Or you're on social media and you see something that, that some influencer is telling you is Amazing. And you're like, well, I want to get that. What can you do in those two to seven minutes where you really feel that urge? That can help to, you know, deflect that urge a little bit. Like, what can you get busy with? For some people, it's taking a walk, it's finding their pet. It's like, you know, chatting with a co worker. One guy messaged me, said, every time I get the urge to buy something, I do 25 sit ups.
- [37:35]
Matt
Nice.
- [37:36]
Ashley Piper
That was one of the things on his love list that was an activity that for him he felt was pretty easily accessible. Now, I have never met this man. I can only imagine what he looks like now if he's been doing that. But like, you know that people find all sorts of kind of interest. I mean, some people were like, I go and make out with my partner or whatever. That certainly gets my mind off of wanting to buy that thing. And then they can come back to the thing that they were interested in. And more often than not, they're not. The urge is gone.
- [38:02]
Joel
Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Express that urge in a better way. Maybe you'll have six pack abs or a better relationship with your willing.
- [38:09]
Ashley Piper
You know, we're out here trying.
- [38:11]
Joel
Yeah. One of the other things you mentioned that I thought was really great was that you journaled a lot during the process of no New Things. You kind of highlighted, you wrote down your feelings and those impulses. I'm curious, what did that reveal to you and how powerful was that in identifying maybe some of what was going on behind the scenes?
- [38:30]
Ashley Piper
Yep. This is my favorite action item throughout no New Things is to track your triggers. I came from kind of a research and social work background. So I do think like data collection on yourself doesn't need to be super arduous, but it is really elucidating and interesting. And having worked in marketing also for a long time, I consider political strategy. Basically marketing for politicians and governments, like messaging for them. Having worked in that capacity for a long period of time, I know and I track this and talk about the origins of this in the book, that marketers will use a lot of emotional levers and logistical levers to get us to buy things. So for instance, there's a reason why shopping malls, movie theaters and supermarkets are very cold. It's because we have hard data that tells us that when we are cold, we make less cogent decisions. We are more likely to impulsively make decisions when we feel cold, when we're hungry, when we're thirsty, when a piece of Our outfit is uncomfortable when we are excited, you know, all of those emotional reasons. Reasons as well. Right. So I thought it would be interesting to see. Whenever I have an urge to buy something, to track what is it? You know, maybe I'd link to it or something like that. And I just had it on my notes app in my phone. It wasn't that deep, you know, I didn't want to go too involved with it. Some people do actually do like spreadsheets and they synthesize the data and I think that's super cool. Everybody's kind of, everybody does what works for them. And then like the time that I was experiencing this urge and where I saw the thing. So was it on TikTok, you know, or was it in a brick and mortar store? P.S. more often than not, it's not in a brick and mortar store, it's somewhere online, either in social media or online. That's usually where a lot of people tend to get cornered by advertising. And then what am I feeling in that moment? So for me, I found some of the common denominators for me wanting to buy something where that it's, I'm procrastinating on a work project or on going to the gym or something like that that I don't want to do. So I'm going down a rabbit hole shopping. I'm feeling not good about myself maybe I feel, maybe it's like at night. That's a real sort of, I would say pain point time. Especially for a lot of women. You're like in bed, you're scrolling your phone, you're on social media, you, you see some 21 year old influencer who is hawking an anti wrinkle cream. Like what wrinkles? I don't know. But then you start to feel old and decrepit and like, oh man, I really need this, you know. And so in tracking it just for a week, I was like, okay, I know these are the vulnerable points for me. Nighttime on social media, vulnerable point for me during the workday when I'm feeling bored or I'm procrastinating on something. Also a vulnerable point for me. So then I managed to kind of find other things to do that would help set me up for success. So I wasn't as susceptible. So at night I would, you know, read a book or try to put my phone in the other room before I go to bed. That way I'm not looking at the anti wrinkle cream going, I need it, you know, and so, and that was really helpful. And for Other people. For y' all, it might be different, you know, if you. Of course it's going to be different, but we know that like marketing and actually purchasing is almost never utilitarian. Like utilitarian being like it's snowing outside and I need snow boots. It's almost always subconscious autopilot, emotional. And so what are knowing what those emotional triggers are for you or those logistical triggers, like you live somewhere where there hasn't been a lot of sunshine. Marketers look at that and they know that you're probably more susceptible to buy something that makes you think of vacations and summer and spring and sunshine and warmth during those times, because you're missing that in your life. So seeing that, you'll learn a lot, I think, in a short period of time about what your individual triggers are.
- [42:29]
Matt
It's all about being methodical. And I love just how simple this can be. Like you mentioned how you simply do this in your notes app. Doesn't have to be overly complicated. On that note, actually, yet again, using that term, you talk about need notes.
- [42:41]
Ashley Piper
Yeah.
- [42:42]
Matt
So I'm going to share what that is and then I want to ask you a question. I guess based on that. Like you talk about essentially planning ahead and how, you know, we need to forecast a little bit. And I couldn't help as you were writing about that. Think about budgeting.
- [42:55]
Ashley Piper
Yeah.
- [42:55]
Matt
And like we have such a problem when it comes to look like forecasting, looking ahead, budgeting what our needs and wants are going to be. How much of the problem do you think comes back to that? I guess the fact that we think that we're in control of our lives, but instead like I almost picture them's running the show. Yeah. The algorithm, the marketing, the advertising. I almost picture like this like a boat, like at a Six Flags or Disney World or something. And like you're just in it and you're bumping around from one thing that's shuttling from heat you from here to there. Then you bump into something else and it sends you this way. But at least in that scenario, we are under no illusion to think that we are like out charting new waters or anything like that. But oftentimes when it comes to spending, we think that we are directing our own path. As opposed to being sort of manipulated. Yeah, manipulated and being sort of like, oh, these are the things that you meant to. That you need to purchase in your life. How much of it is just like that? I guess consciousness and awareness to that. Ashley.
- [43:48]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, the consciousness and awareness piece. So the need note is Something. It sounds like you make a lot of notes during this challenge, but it's really not that notes heavy. But the need note is really just like you are writing down before you start the 30 day challenge. What are things I'm going to need to acquire in this 30 days? And I'm not talking about groceries. I'm talking about things that you know under no new things, you're not buying new. So that could be like, little Timmy needs a calculator. I don't know why I'm focused on calculators, but let's just go with it. Or I need new socks or I'm going to need a new pair of soccer shoes or whatever it is. You write them down. I need a wedding gift for so and so. You write them down. And then using this rubric that I created called the Stick super system, because I love acronyms, helps everybody, you know, remember things that you code, how you're going to get that item. So super system stands for S Secondhand, like getting items secondhand. U is upcycling, reimagining, or repurposing things you already have. P is paying nothing, as in getting things for free. So if you live somewhere with a vibrant, stooping culture, a buy nothing group, someone's given you something, that kind of thing. E is experiences. And that's really like, okay, so say for someone's wedding, instead of getting them that 12 piece China set that they're never going to use that we see on everybody's registry, maybe you make a donation to an organization that matters to them. Maybe you give them cash toward their honeymoon or toward a house down payment. You know, all of those things that are on a registry. Or maybe you gift them like a really cool experience. And that can go for gifting or for yourself too, because I want people to continue to be really generous and experience life in wonderful, joyful ways during this challenge. And then R is to rent. So rent, borrowing and sharing. That could be everything from I'm renting a drill at Home Depot. I'm, you know, borrowing a book from the library. I'm renting some, like a dress from Rent the Runway, that kind of thing. So you code your need note and the things on it using that rubric. So for instance, little Timmy needs a calculator. Right. We're just going with that analogy. I'm going to see if I can ask at second hand. If I can't, I'm going to see if I can get it. P pay nothing for free. Maybe in my buy nothing group or Maybe in my parents group or the school supplies group, somebody's getting rid of one that I can just take, you know, and use for a while. And maybe r. Maybe I rent it, or maybe there's a way to, you know, some libraries loan those out, you know? So seeing how alternate ways to get your needs met that are not just going to the font of online shopping, which is what we've been conditioned to.
- [46:21]
Joel
Do, it sounds like part of it's just being a little more creative, thinking outside the box, too, right? Because when you're essentially conditioned to just buy something online to meet your instantaneous need, you don't have to be very creative. It's so simple. It's one click to purchase, right? And so it's never been. And it'll show up later that day, at worst, like the next evening, so we don't really have to fret about it. But then our finances, on average, are in a colossal upheaval as a society. So is it just that additional step of creativity and maybe a little bit of planning that really helps to solve this for a whole lot of folks? And maybe they're just not used to thinking that that's something they can do because they're just so used to doing the easy thing.
- [47:08]
Ashley Piper
Amen. Amen. I think those are two very key ingredients to us rewiring these neural pathways that we've created that turn us toward buying as the automatic solution for everything. So we've lost a lot of our resourcefulness. And something else that you get back, I think, from no new things or doing similar types of challenges is your creativity comes back. Because we think, and we've been sold this lie, that an abundance of choice, as in an abundance of items out there that you can buy and sift through, is the path to freedom, and it's the path to convenience in our lives. But really, that's not how creativity and resourcefulness work. Creativity requires certain parameters to butt up against, to continually strengthen itself like a muscle. So you'll find if you do this challenge for even a week, you are already tapping into and more readily accessing creativity in your life than you have before. Like, people who. People who've done this have said, man, you know, I just. I wouldn't have thought that I could do this thing. I wouldn't have thought I could throw together a kid's costume or whatever. But then I did, and it was actually a lot easier than I thought, and it was cooler than just going and buying like, some standard one online or, you know, and so it's really interesting. That's another ancillary benefit is you tap into more creativity because you are not turning to consumerism to get every single one of your needs met or to fix every single problem. Also, you can determine better what's an actual problem and also what's a need. Like, we are so we're in such a swirl now. We don't even we have a really difficult time determining a need versus a want. And we also do not know, like, what is an actual problem that needs to be solving through acquiring a new thing? Or is this a problem or a challenge that can be solved in another way? Do I already have something that can meet that need? You know, we don't think like that anymore and we've lost. It's a lost art because we've become so dependent and honestly infantilized by especially online shopping.
- [49:13]
Joel
Yeah, no, that's a good point. All right, we've got a few more questions we're going to get to with you, Ashley, including what are the most common excuses people offer for not being able to participate in no new things? And I'd like to chop those down to size, show those people what's up. We'll get to a couple more questions with you right after this. Let's talk retirement for a second. To me, it feels like it's getting harder for people to reach their goals for the future. We hear about inflation, rate hikes, the changing market. Are we even saving enough? And things keep changing, right? And here is where Fidelity comes in. Whether you're saving for retirement or close to living in it, Fidelity can help you get where you want to go, no matter your path or what happens along the way. Yeah, but how?
- [49:57]
Matt
Well, they'll help you to create a free, personalized plan that adapts as your priorities change. They'll also show you what's called timely insights. These are small tips on ways to save and invest to help meet your goals. And you can monitor your plans so you can stay on target. The future is coming, and so is retirement. Get ready to take it on@fidelity.com retirement.
- [50:19]
Joel
Take on expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services Member NYSE SIPC hey there, Joel here.
- [50:30]
Matt
And I am Matt. We are from the how to Money podcast.
- [50:33]
Joel
Matt Summer is here. I could not be more excited for our annual family beach getaway together, my friend.
- [50:40]
Matt
Heck yeah, I'm excited as well. This year we are taking our families on a joint vacation to St. Simon's this is off the coast of Georgia. That's right, the Atlantic coast.
- [50:48]
Joel
And we found an awesome Airbnb that's perfect for everyone. The kids, they're excited about exploring the beaches and the historic St. Simon's Lighthouse. I want to check out the historic oak trees this year too. Plus, we got a great pool at the Airbnb, which our kids are going to love.
- [51:03]
Matt
It is going to be a blast. I can't wait, man.
- [51:05]
Joel
And you know what? That's what makes hosting an Airbnb so special. A stay at your place could be the highlight of someone else's vacation. So why not consider hosting your own home on Airbnb? With the co host feature, it's easier than ever to manage your reservations and guests.
- [51:19]
Matt
Exactly, man. A co host can handle everything for you, making hosting stress free. Find a co host@airbnb.com host running your.
- [51:28]
Joel
Own business hits different in the summer because we take more time off to be with our family. It means we have to be even more thoughtful ahead of time so things run smoothly. But just like having the right plan helps us to avoid podcast nightmares, well, you can ensure that you and the people you care for most are prepared for anything too. Trust and Will makes estate planning simple and secure. So you can confidently create a will designate power of attorney, secure your digital assets and more. Visit trustandwill.com howtomoney to get 20% off their simple, secure and expert backed estate planning services.
- [52:02]
Matt
Yeah, when you're young and life is simple, getting a trust or will in place is not a high priority. But life gets more complicated when you start throwing kids into the mix. Once you add an investment property or two, once that's a part of the equation, I know I've got the peace of mind knowing that I've got this checked off my to do list. And you can too. Because Trust and Will's website is easy to use. It's simple to navigate. Plus all your information and documents are securely stored with bank level encryption. Each will or trust is state specific, it's legally valid and and it's customized to your needs.
- [52:33]
Joel
Yeah, we can't control everything, but trust and Will can help you take control of protecting your family's future. Trustandwill.com how to money and get 20% off. That's 20% off@trustandwill.com how to money.
- [52:47]
Ashley Piper
All.
- [52:48]
Matt
Right, we are back from the break and Ashley, just before the break you said something that stuck out to me and you mentioned not turning to consumerism to solve all of our problems. I have a massive pet peeve with some of these companies who tout the virtues of buy one, give one. Right? Like, so you buy a pair and then they donate a pair.
- [53:07]
Joel
Matt hates philanthropy. That's.
- [53:08]
Matt
I love the tying of our consumption to you being a virtuous person. Do you like these companies? Do you feel like that it's using.
- [53:16]
Joel
This sort of Matt's putting Tom's on.
- [53:17]
Matt
Blast, negative sort of behavior, and they're trying to put this positive spin on it?
- [53:22]
Ashley Piper
Well, before, I kind of was doing no new things. And during this whole time, I've been a sustainability expert first and foremost. So I've seen the consumerist landscape really change. And I consult for a lot of companies too, especially around sustainability marketing, AKA like, how to market their goods in an authentic way. That's not greenwashing. So I don't want to broad brush and say that every company that's doing kind of one of these buy one, give one, or, you know, for every treatment plant, everything you buy, a tree is planted or a kid gets clean water or whatever, because some of those are really doing noble work. And, you know, I'm not sure how effective each individual one is, but I will tell you that when I see that on maybe an untested product or a company's product, I oftentimes will almost automatically go to greenwashing because you're playing on. And we see it a lot in the sustainability space. You see it a lot like this soap washes oil from animals, you know, like, who are injured in oil spills. That used to be, like, what dawn would do, you know, or you see a lot of the these really, like, dropship companies that come out of the woodwork almost overnight, and their whole thing is like, we're giving someone the same item you got or, you know, who needs it. And it's really difficult to check up on that claim as well. So I would just say buyer beware. As with everything, as with any kind of claim, that's either philanthropic, sustainable, you know, labor rights, whatever it might be. Buyer beware, do your due diligence. Unfortunately, all of those kinds of terms and programs are pretty unregulated. Like, especially like, even with the sec, like a lot of the terminology that's used for sustainability products. Dog. It's like the wild west out there. They people can. I mean, how many times you go into a store and it says green and natural, eco friendly, you know, and it's like, those are not terms that are regulated by any regulating or third party out there at all. So they can just slap a ton of stuff on products and people feel good about that and then they go, okay, I'm making a good decision, when really it's the same old song and dance of, you know, a crummy product that it was. They just have different, flashier markers. Marketing.
- [55:41]
Joel
Okay, so one of the things I'm curious about too is if more people are asking about no new things because prices are higher. So inflation, obviously not a good thing, but could it have like a silver lining effect of people being more interested in sort of something like the no new things movement or tariffs? Right. And price increases that are likely to come about because of the essentially widespread tariffs on countries all across the world making everything we buy more expensive? Obviously not. Not a good thing in so many ways. But could it have a silver lining impact where people are saying, I'm gonna be more thoughtful about what I'm buying and maybe the old school consume everything all the time model, maybe I'm just gonna start thinking a little differently about that.
- [56:25]
Ashley Piper
Yes, yes. A thousand times yes. I mean, no new things might be my approach to this that other people have done, but at the heart of it, it very much is around examining and understanding both consumerism in the west and how we became these people and how these became our cultural habits, basically, and also our individual habits and attitudes around consumption and what I'd call over consumption, and then how to manage those in an ever changing, always evolving landscape. So I think a good financial and just general life survival skill is how can I live richly and a joyful life without having my richness and my joy entirely dependent upon the things that populate my life? And if you can do that, I think you can succeed no matter how things shift. And, you know, in no new things, you're cultivating community, it's sharing of resources, you're having that connection. We need each other to get through all the time. People need each other, but we really need each other during really tense financial times and uncertain political and financial times. We need to be looking out for and relying on our communities. And we need also to completely change the way that we see and define our self worth. Right. So much of our self worth now is, especially in American society, is about how much I own. What do I have? Do I have the right stuff? Do I have enough of that stuff? And I think in order to kind of stay build habits that are going to help us live long, healthy, happy lives, we need to shift that. So, yeah, everything in the book, I think, is a strategy that's going to help folks no matter what happens with tariffs. And then, you know, if you are looking to acquire items that you need to in your life, you've been probably hearing it going around. But as of right now, there are no tariffs on secondhand goods because they already exist and they're already here. I'm sure there are some anomalies to that, but yeah, there's. So it is kind of a more. I would say, I don't want to say ironclad, but it is a more defensive way of kind of keeping your finances and your life more solvent during uncertain times.
- [58:41]
Joel
I love it. I was going to ask you about common excuses, things that people will tell you.
- [58:45]
Ashley Piper
Yeah, you did and I totally ignored you.
- [58:47]
Joel
No, I don't want to ask you now because I, like, feel. I feel like you preempted all those excuses with what you just said and I feel like all those excuses sound like they would fall flat. Given all that we've talked about today.
- [58:57]
Matt
Ashley's made such a strong argument.
- [58:59]
Joel
Yes, for sure.
- [59:00]
Ashley Piper
Wow, thanks.
- [59:01]
Joel
Yeah. But Ashley, so we really have enjoyed having you on. Thank you for coming on and talking to us today. Where can folks find out more about you, what you're up to and your new book, no New Things.
- [59:12]
Ashley Piper
Oh, thank you so much, guys. This is a really fun conversation. I so appreciate you having me on. People can find me on Instagram at Ashley Piper and I have a website, AshleyPiper.com and I also have a substack called the Ethical Edit where I post kind of no new thingsy stuff. Anti. I shouldn't say anti, but overcoming over consumption strategies and just kind of feel good content there. And folks can find no New Things. The book in lots of different versions. There's an audiobook, Narrated by Moi, there is an ebook and there is the physical book. Find them at your library. You can find them at wherever you get books, you know. So it's out there.
- [59:54]
Matt
Heck yeah. We'll link to all that. Ashley, thank you so much for chatting with us today.
- [59:57]
Ashley Piper
Oh, Matt and Joel, thank you so much. I hope you all have a good day.
- [60:01]
Joel
Alrighty. Matt. That was a great combo.
- [60:03]
Matt
It was fun.
- [60:03]
Joel
And honestly, not that I had low expectations, but this conversation and all the information that Ashley shared radically exceeded what I expected.
- [60:13]
Matt
Does it make you want to get scrappy when it comes to 100%?
- [60:16]
Joel
Yes. Like it makes me want to rethin. That's the way I do things. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm curious, what was your big takeaway then from this convo?
- [60:24]
Matt
Do you Want to go first? Do you have one? Sure.
- [60:26]
Ashley Piper
Okay.
- [60:26]
Joel
I'm happy to.
- [60:27]
Matt
All right. I'm still thinking about.
- [60:28]
Joel
I mean, there were a couple things that were kind of paradigm shifting for.
- [60:30]
Matt
Me, but choose one.
- [60:31]
Joel
When she said purchasing is almost never utilitarian, it's emotional. And I was like, that's. That's 100% true.
- [60:39]
Matt
What if you're a robot like me?
- [60:41]
Joel
I'm sure you make some emotionally.
- [60:43]
Matt
There are. I make emotional purchases for sure.
- [60:46]
Joel
But the last shirt I bought, I didn't need that thing. And it's cool. I like it. And it was on sale. Wasn't expensive, but 100%, I did not need that shirt. And I think, was it some sort of deep need inside of me where I needed a shirt to try to cover up the void? Maybe I don't want to get too personal here right now, but I do.
- [61:07]
Matt
Think, keep peeling back the layers, it all comes back to daddy issues.
- [61:12]
Joel
I mean, it makes me want to write some stuff down, like when I am tempted to shop, do some of that journaling that she talked about, because, yeah, I do think that she's spot on. Occasionally there is this real need to buy something. But so much of the time, especially in our modern culture, we're buying stuff because we're in an emotionally charged spot. And oftentimes that is because we're burnt out or overworked or undernourished in other parts of our lives. And so, man, so much wisdom there. And this is going to shift things for me, which I'm thankful for.
- [61:40]
Matt
I like it. Okay, so she talked about, essentially, she didn't use these terms, but there's a very steep learning curve when you are implementing some of these systems in your life. And she did use those terms, systems, she said, having built in networks, and these are things that initially are gonna take time. Like, it's going to be more work initially to get these things in place. But once you do, it's sort of like this virtuous network of folks who share a common view of the world together and the money that you are or aren't willing to spend. And so I think that can be helpful to keep in mind as you are entering into trying some of this. Initially, it's gonna be difficult, but eventually it's gonna be rewarding in more ways than one. Not just financially, about just the community sort of aspect of that. Relationships and the things that make life even more robust in our world that.
- [62:27]
Joel
Is more and more relationally disconnected. I think this is a chance to kind of build more Inroads with people in your community around the topic of saving money and sharing. Right. And I think that's pretty cool. Totally. Let's mention the beer we had on this show.
- [62:39]
Matt
Introduce the beer because I don't know what it's called.
- [62:41]
Joel
Okay. This is, I'm gonna say Hanami.
- [62:43]
Matt
Okay, wait, okay, so the name of the beer is Hanami, but what's the brewery?
- [62:47]
Joel
The brewery is Japas. Sorry, I'll say that again. Cervejeria. And so the reason it's, it's so interestingly named is because this is an all female owned brewery of Japanese Brazilian ladies. And my goodness, Matt, this beer was a sour ale with cherry, jasmine, hibiscus and natural almonds extract. What did you think?
- [63:12]
Matt
Dude, you can taste all of that. Like the first thing that I wrote down after I took my first sip was cherry. But then I wrote comma blossoms because it's not like cherry like the sweetened cherry that you get in a jar. Like Luxardo cherries, which, I mean, come on. Delicious. It's hard to beat those if you're making like an old fashioned, some fantastic cocktail. But that's not what this beer was. This was more like the faint cherry that you get off of cherry blossoms in the spring and then kind of some of the jasmine, some of these honeysuckle like notes. It's a very subtle, nuanced beer. I really enjoyed it.
- [63:45]
Joel
I agree. I thought the chill cherry along with like the, the light florals and then the almond really did come through as like the backbone of the beer too. I was like, this is so interesting and unique. I've never had a beer like this and I'm very curious to try more beers by this brewery. I got, I picked this, this can up actually when I was in Tennessee. Yeah. So I don't know if we get this brewery here where we live. I haven't seen them before, but it makes me want to try more beers by Japass and see what these ladies are brewing up. Because this was awesome.
- [64:15]
Matt
This is really good. That's gonna be it for this episode though. We will link to everything like we mentioned up on the website@howtomoney.com until next time.
- [64:22]
Joel
Best friends out.
- [64:23]
Matt
Best friends out.
- [64:40]
Ashley Piper
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Joel
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Matt
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- [65:56]
Joel
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- [66:08]
Ashley Piper
This is an I Heart podcast.