← How to Money
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- [00:00]
A
This is an Iheart podcast.
- [00:02]
B
Guaranteed human.
- [00:04]
A
Okay, Joel, I am excited about this one. Here on the show, we are all about comparing prices to save money on so many things in life. So why wouldn't we compare prices for our next ride share? Taking a few seconds to check Lyft can save you real money on your next ride. I did this last time. I caught a ride home from the airport after some travel and guess who came out on top? It was Lyft. Don't just price check with your flights and phone plans and groceries. Comparing rideshare prices will help you to save money every time you ride. Save money. Check Lyft.
- [00:36]
B
Say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? Like treating yourself to something special or
- [00:52]
A
spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one? Use empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today@empower.com not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. Indeed Sponsored jobs get you quality candidates when you need them most. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs.
- [01:23]
B
And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.
- [01:39]
A
And I am Matt.
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B
And today we're talking preparing for the Unthinkable with Chanel Reynold.
- [02:04]
A
Yeah, so this is a topic that's been on our minds like literally for months because this past summer we recorded an episode with our wives that was episode 704, by the way, if you want to go back and listen. And a listener had asked about our communication with our wives and how involved they were with our finances because it's, you know, it's really fun to dream work towards the different big financial goals that we have. And then of course, the day to day discussions, right? Like what was the water bill that month? How much money's left in the entertainment category? Those are the kind of convos that happen pretty automatically as well. But given the fact that Joel and I were both money nerds. It's no surprise that both of us handle the bulk of our family's finances. The logistics. And that question did spotlight the fact that if something terrible happened to one of us, that it might be difficult for our wives to figure out how to take the reins unless we made a plan for it. And so that's why we are honored to be talking with Chanel Reynolds, who has quite literally been on a mission for the past decade to help folks do what she wished that she had done before. Life takes a detour. So we keep it clean here on the podcast. So I'll say that Chanel founded getyourshiz together.com. she authored the book what Matters Most, and both are dedicated to help folks face the inevitable reality of death. Chanel, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today.
- [03:28]
C
Thanks for having me here.
- [03:29]
B
Of course. Yeah. All right. So, Chanel, the first question we ask anybody who comes on the show, Matt and I, we like to splurge. We spend more money than some people think is reasonable on craft beer, but, hey, we're doing the right thing on the flip side of the equation, we're saving and investing wisely and on purpose. We're funneling a lot of money in that direction for our future selves. What is it that you maybe splurge on in the here and now that some people might think is a little outrageous?
- [03:54]
C
I love it. I'm. I'm torn between saying fancy cheese, which, you know, growing up in the Midwest, we didn't always have fancy cheese. And so now if I'm at the store and there's, like, something perfectly adequate, but then there's something that's smaller and four times as much, I'm like, I want that one.
- [04:15]
B
It probably smells next level cheese.
- [04:17]
C
Yeah. Like the dirty feet of angels, but I want it.
- [04:21]
A
The more cavities and crystallized salts that there are in any hard cheese, the more I'm drawn to it.
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C
Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. Or a pair of boots like my winter leather boots. If there's a nice well sail even, it's hard to say no.
- [04:38]
A
Interesting. Both of those are somehow related to feet. Stinky feet.
- [04:44]
C
I had never put that together before,
- [04:47]
A
like you may have hinted at. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And we do want to spend some time talking about your story in your book. It's less of like a workbook where you're being super practical, and it's just an incredible narrative where you're sharing your story with the reader. But also walking folks who might be entering into a situation like that through just the headspace of kind of what to expect. Honestly, we hate to bring up what must be the worst day of your life, but can you tell us a little bit about the accident that. That changed everything for you?
- [05:20]
C
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, it was, you know, about a dozen years ago when my late husband, Jose and I had a growing family and younger kids, and our son was just about to get. He was just about to go into kindergarten, actually. And we'd done the thing that many, you know, younger, growing families do is, you know, childcare costs were super expensive. We bought up, bought a home that, you know, a bit of a stretch home that we were going to be in for a while. And so for those handful of years where we were stretching and, you know, many costs were high, we hadn't done some of the basic things that we knew of these, like, small, incremental decisions of, like, buying the stinky cheese, let's say. And what happened was I was over at a friend's house with my son and went to get my phone out of my purse to take a picture and noticed there were all these calls from numbers I didn't recognize. And my husband had been in an accident. He had been taken to the hospital. And the tone of voice on the voicemail and the lack of information I was getting told me that something was very, very wrong. So I made it to the hospital. He was in the er. He had already been there for a couple of hours, and people are trying to find me. He had a hundred machines hooked up to him and tubes everywhere. And the ER doc said that he had a 50, 50 chance. And so that seemed better to me than what I had feared most. And then he said, actually, Chanel, I need you to listen. If he doesn't die at any second, the paramedics thought he was going to be a doa. If he's stable enough to get into surgery, there's maybe a 50, 50 chance he can make it off the table alive. And that's when I realized that no matter what happened, whether he lived or died, and there was a 50, 50 chance, apparently, of either that his life, my life, our lives were changed forever. And after a week, he did. My late husband was a. Was a stubborn man, so he defied the odds as long as any body could. And after a week in the ER and the icu, all of the tests came back that his. His injuries were unrecoverable. And I made the decision that I knew he would Want. Because we had had some, but not all, of these conversations and plans in place to remove what was then medical intervention rather than life support. And during that week in the hospital, trying to just figure out what was going on and trying to take care of our son and stepdaughter, it became clear to me that there were these hundreds of questions that came up. Simple things like, do you have your health insurance card? To what are the phone numbers? To some of his family members? To do you have your affairs in order? And when the social worker asked me if we had our affairs in order, it's just the phrase seems silly still to me, I kind of giggled, but then was very happy to say, yes, we did our wills and all of our stuff. And then a few moments later, as I was walking back into his room, I realized that we did get all of our wills done, and they were sitting in my inbox and had been for a few months waiting to be finalized and signed. So some of the things that we had done, like having some but not enough life insurance, really did kind of offer that lifeboat for, you know, as a bridge from the life we had to whatever the heck my life was going to be now. And some of the things we didn't do, like knowing passwords to phones. It took me dozens of hours to try to access something or get a phone turned back on. And, you know, to this day, I still don't know if he bought Bitcoin in 2009 because I can't find the information.
- [09:42]
B
So you talked about having some of those conversations already with your late husband about kind of what to ha. What to do if you're severely injured. You talked about life insurance, talked about getting most of the way done on your wills. Where would you rate yourself on, like, a financial preparedness spectrum? Because you, you thought when she asked the question, oh, yeah, I'm good, we've done the stuff. But you realize after the fact, wait a second.
- [10:06]
C
There's.
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B
There's a lot of stuff I didn't realize needed to be done.
- [10:09]
C
Yeah, exactly. So, you know, there's. There's milestones that happen in our lives where somebody responsible or reliable or pediatrician or parents tell us, okay, now it's time to get your wills done, or now it's time to get life insurance. And so we've done some of those long term, I'd say, kind of generic things. So the 50% of the stuff I'd say was primarily more like, for that long, faraway future, inevitable, surrounded by our grandchildren on a lake in our Deathbed laughing at jokes or something. What we hadn't really. And that's a challenging thing to do. 50% of US adults don't have wills done, don't have advance care directives or living wills done. And without some urgency or a trigger in some case or an accident, we don't know how much it hurts until we see it or we live through it in some ways. So the parts that surprised me, I'd say, and I would not give us 100% marks on having everything done in advance. But what we had done made such a difference. Some of the things like, you know, an emergency fund, we know that it can be hard just to get through the month paying the bills, that we have much less saving for an emergency. But having an emergency fund really does and did offer some kind of cushion just to be able to figure out what's going on or, you know, let's say in somebody's situation, buy a plane ticket to go visit a family member, that kind of thing. But, you know, like the what if stuff, what if something happens? What would I want or need for the next 24, 48 hours? What would I want or need for a few weeks? Or what if that what if thing is what's happening now? How prepared am I? And passwords, phone numbers, emergency contact plans, having, like an extra key outside of the house so someone could go feed the dog so the dog wouldn't eat the couch. You know, just some of these things keep life moving somewhat forward. When a big bomb gets dropped in your life, whether it's a disastrous accident, like in my case, or, you know, a diagnosis or illness in the family, some of these things we know will find us one day or another.
- [12:49]
A
Totally. I mean, you mentioned the emergency fund, and what that is is it's margin. It's financial margin in your life. But I like, a lot of the things that you're talking about are about creating wiggle room and margin just within your actual life. Like, not even when it comes to the finances, like, you talking about the key thing, I'm just like, oh, yeah, that just. That's just smart. It seems wise, it seems prudent. But oftentimes, like you said, we're always thinking of the best potential outcomes for our lives. I noticed in your Twitter profile, I think I saw optimist in there, which is we oftentimes, when we are more optimistic, we don't necessarily think that, oh, these are necessary precautions that we should take. It's almost a matter of waking up to the reality that this might definitely Happen.
- [13:35]
C
Absolutely. I am a serial optimist. Even, even during, like, the lowest, lowest lows, I. I'm still grateful that I have today and making these small, incremental choices, you know, and I. I definitely understand, like, the buy the coffee type of philosophy. Like, we want. We should be able to enjoy what we're doing and, and have some joy in our lives and balancing those with our financial priorities. And so we've done okay in the past with our financial priorities. Not perfect. And what I learned from that experience is when you don't have those things that you wish you could turn to, like, you can't buy life insurance after, after you're dead. It's hard to build up an emergency fund while you're in the middle of an emergency, and you need a little bit of flexibility and breathing room.
- [14:30]
B
Talk to me about how you guys divvied up kind of the financial responsibilities in the household. The reality is, in most relationships, it's like a 9010 sort of split, right. And I guess, would you recommend that people split those a little more evenly or at least let their partner in more on kind of the realities of what the household financial management looks like so that they're not completely out to lunch when or if, you know, the worst thing happens to their partner or spouse?
- [14:59]
C
Yeah, absolutely. You know, my late husband and I had, you know, different strengths. He was kind of the tech guy and the password guy, and I was happy to let him do that. I was much better at other things. And so, you know, having transparency and communication, I think is really huge. Shared responsibility, shared energy going into your finances. You know, someone might really enjoy the. The cooking of the meals. Someone else might really enjoy getting freaky in the spreadsheets and, you know, optimizing and moving things around. So I think that's great. The. And I wouldn't necessarily suggest someone who can't stand to look at a spreadsheet or a financial statement all of a sudden take on 50%, because it has to be 50, 50, but put toothpicks
- [15:53]
B
in their eyes and force them to stare at the screen.
- [15:55]
C
You know, but communication and transparency. So, you know, there have been a number of ways people have been able to share information, whether it's a checklist or a spreadsheet. There are much better, more usable, easier to share, password managers or online faults. So my partner and I now we have what we call our monthly CFO meeting, and we sit down for an hour and we talk about what you had mentioned earlier, how much was the water bill, but also what Are our financial priorities? Do I have all of the information? And we update our shared password manager. So if something were to happen and, and let's say it's a four hour close call and I needed to be gone for a weekend and my partner would want to pay a bill or access something, they know where that is and I would know where their other information is. So now, like sexy future bonding intimate conversation is talking about, like life insurance beneficiaries in my household, to be totally honest. And it really is an opportunity to talk about wanting your partner to be okay no matter what. You wanting to be okay no matter what. Building a loving future for however long that future is for you together or your family. And then whoever, whoever moves forward in that future. Because women in particular, 8 out of 10 women in hetero relationships are going to live longer than their male partners or husbands. And so I think it's really important that we have these conversations, not just, hey, babe, what's the Netflix password today?
- [17:50]
B
Oh, you're saying that's not the most important thing, huh?
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C
Well, sometimes it is. If there's a new show coming out and you gotta see it, you're like, it's the finale.
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B
That new Pete Holmes comedy special looks so funny.
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A
Chanel. She's clamoring for the David Beckham series, whatever that is.
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C
That could be. That could actually be a financial life raft. Right there. Is sharing the. The. The password, but to the future as well. So, you know, some of those mundane admin, you know, family household stuff. You know, my son knows he's the legacy contact for some of my digital files. And he also likes to crack jokes on Mother's Day that he knows how much my life insurance policy is. And like, you can't kill me and still be a beneficiary. But there's a level of transparency and communication, which which for me takes a lot of that fear and a lot of that worry. And for a lot of people, the wonder, like the wondering what would happen if something happened. I know. Or I know. 19 answers out of 20. And it's incredibly, wildly reassuring to me.
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B
Sure.
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A
Well, I like how you're. You're kind of diving into simple practical matters. And, you know, we're talking a lot about passwords, but how do you go about doing that? Like, where do you write down the login info for just all your different online accounts, whether you are talking about Netflix or Hulu or a retirement account? Because that's a really important part. Not only identifying which accounts exist, but also how to go about logging in how is it that you're able to keep that safe but also accessible to those that you want to have it?
- [19:30]
C
Yeah, definitely. I think there's two questions to ask yourself about what is going to make a successful digital hygiene kind of plan for you and what's going to have a successful way to manage and share or hand off your digital assets. One of them is what system do you already use that maybe works? And what's a system that you're actually going to maintain? And then who is it that you are wanting to share this information with? So, for example, with my parents, I had purchased one of the more expensive kind of concierge, organized, much easier to use online vaults and storage. And they wouldn't use it. They wouldn't use it. They wouldn't use it. Like, can I send someone to your house to set it up for you? They can bring some pie. It just. The answer was yes, of course, honey, this sounds great. And they never used it. So if I'm trying to communicate information to my parents or a generation of people or somebody who thinks password managers aren't safe no matter what, or they're just not going to use it. I have my own password manager and there's a number of them. You know, some of the ones that have been highest on review lists are bit warden and one password I had used LastPass for a number of years until there were security breaches recently. And the communication around them I didn't like. So I decided to move. I'm not affiliated with any one of them. There are, you know, there's your Google Drive or there's an Excel spreadsheet, people who are good at and want to take care of, you know, they have their own system. You can create a safer, safer way to, to track your most important, most important passwords and accounts. And if you are going to hand them off to somebody who is not computer savvy or won't log into the password manager to get the email that says, you know, you're the legacy contact and then they accept it. In some cases I just have a folder and it's in my little waterproof, fireproof case. And every year or so when I see family, I hand off to my, you know, mom. Now the updated folder with a spreadsheet and my brother and my partner are my digital powers of attorney. And so that makes me, it makes me feel reassured that if something were to happen and I didn't log into my password manager account after a certain amount of time, they would get an email and they would be able to access the files that I've given them access to. So nothing will get lost. Right. Like when it comes to your analog or your digital stuff in your house, if or when you need somebody to come in and help you or pay bills or find something, there's absolutely things you don't want to get lost. You don't want your 401k drifting off into the ether somewhere and nobody ever knows where it is and nobody ever gets it. And there are gazillions of dollars out there that are unclaimed. My impression of the many insurance companies that are out there is they're not probably prioritizing finding people who haven't filed claims to get the money back from them. So we want our friends and family to find the things we want them to find and also maybe not find everything. Right. There might be a special box somewhere of, who knows, like really embarrassing journals when you wrote poetry, or some more consenting adult type things that you might not want your mother or your children to find. So you might want to have a plan for who comes and takes care of what. Not just your digital files, but also, like, who you want to have your, you know, Elvis impersonator outfit collection to.
- [23:49]
B
How did you know Matt Stark's secret?
- [23:50]
C
You know, I wasn't gonna out him, but, you know, picking up on those vibes, man, it seems like you just did. Yeah, I did. So sorry, Matt.
- [23:59]
B
Well, yeah, it's one thing to have the insurance policy. It's another thing to communicate effectively to your loved ones that it exists. So. Right. They can, you know, tap those funds when or if the need arises. And Chanel, we've got more questions we want to get to with you. We want to talk about wills, life insurance, powers of attorney, beneficiaries. A bunch of questions on those fronts. We'll get to that and more right after. Say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? Like treating yourself to something special or
- [24:42]
A
spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one. Use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today@empower.com not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. Okay, Joel, I am excited about this one. Here on the show, we are all about comparing prices to save money on so many things in life. So why wouldn't we compare prices for our next ride share? Taking a few seconds to check Lyft can save you real money on your next ride. I did this last time. I caught a ride home from the airport after some travel and guess who came out on top? It was Lyft. Don't just price check with your flights and phone plans and groceries. Comparing rideshare prices will help you to save money every time you ride. Save money.
- [25:28]
B
Check Lyft man, we've hired some great folks to work behind the scenes with us at how2money over the years if you're a small business, you know this the right hire can make or break things for you. Hoping the right people see your job Posting is not the best growth strategy. So when the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs.
- [25:49]
A
That's right. Indeed Sponsored Jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them the Most. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when
- [26:08]
B
you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
- [26:37]
A
All right, we are back from the break, talking with Chanel Reynolds. And Chanel we've kind of talked about, I guess, thinking through, I guess, how it is you're going to kind of line up some of that information, who it is that you want to to leave some of that information to. Let's talk more about the legal side of things. Let's talk about estate planning documents. Specifically. How can folks go about planning in the first place?
- [27:01]
C
Yeah.
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A
Can you maybe provide a good overview of some of the legal documents that need to be in place?
- [27:07]
C
Definitely. So in my opinion and the opinion of many other financial and, you know, attorneys who deal with estate planning, anybody who's 18 or older should have some basic documents in place. And it doesn't have to be expensive and it doesn't have to take more than, you know, maybe a couple of hours. So it's just an important thing to start working into the Spec of your life. The same way we go to the dentist and we, you know, replace our furnace filters and we get mammograms. It's just part of the maintenance. So if we kind of take the scary away and just make it maybe like a boring task, I feel like it might be easier for us to do in general. General. One of the things that any attorney who you would talk to about estate planning, any question you ask, generally, the first response back is, it depends. And it does. It depends on a number of things, like which state you live in. You know, there are many, as we, you know, hear in the news and. And know from maybe personal experience, laws vary from state to state. And that's true also when it comes to estate planning and probate. So that's what happens if you die without a will, which you should not
- [28:24]
B
want, because that's when the state ends up making decisions for you when you could have made those decisions ahead of time.
- [28:32]
C
Exactly, exactly. And so for some people, if you're married and you live in a community property state, like, let's say Washington state is, and something happens, generally the legally married spouse gets everything. And so for some people, that could be like a. Oh, okay, that's a pretty good backup plan. What I would have wanted anyway. So the cost of doing nothing is lower than perhaps somebody who's still legally married, estranged from their partner, who they have a really bad relationship with their family. And the last people on earth they would want talking to doctors, being in a hospital room, or getting any of their stuff or assets is their legal spouse or anyone in their family. And so it can be devastating. You know, we've heard stories about, you know, people not being let in the room, and terrible, terrible arguments. But most foundational estate planning packets have three documents. One is your will, and that's who gets your stuff after you die. And other important decisions like guardianship, who you would want to be a guardian for your children, your pets, or. I worked with somebody who had a really extensive plant collection. And so there was, like, there was a guardianship plan for the. For the plants. I'm like, that's really serious. Yeah.
- [29:59]
A
So now it's Shop of Horrors, right?
- [30:03]
C
So now it's kids, pets, or plants, and. And you name somebody as your executor who is basically the project manager of that will, and they have a legal financial, fiduciary responsibility to follow the instructions in your will and audit your estate, pay legitimate debts, and then distribute the assets like you said. Like, I want, of course, Matt to have My Elvis impersonator outfits. And Joel gets my ABBA vinyl collection.
- [30:33]
A
Joel does like abba.
- [30:35]
B
Everybody knows that.
- [30:36]
C
Definitely. And so that's one important document. One is a power of attorney, and that's somebody who speaks for you or can help you out, pay bills, help organize your life when you're not necessarily at an end of life situation. So that could be. It's often comes in handy or can be a really helpful document if you have, you know, aging family member, parent, There are dementia provisions. Over the last few years, people brought out and activated and used their power of attorney document. Let's say if you had Covid and you were very ill or intubated in a hospital for a few weeks or a month, that can be really handy. So paperwork and life can still move forward. The third document is called an advance care directive or a living will. And those are your wishes and instructions that you give in advance as directly as possible about the kind of care you do and don't want at the end of your life. So an example would be someone goes into hospice. You have a medical advocate, someone who can communicate with family or doctors or whoever and say, you know, Chanel and I talked about this. I have her piece of paper right here. I'm the person named. And she absolutely didn't want ABBA playing. She absolutely wanted Led Zeppelin playing. So turn the radio station to the Zeppelin radio station. And. Or Chanel had said, this is. These are her quality of life priorities where she's at right now. I know she would not want to do an invasive surgery with little chance of actually getting better. And her final days would be in pain rather than more present. And she wants fewer days, but better ones rather than lots of bad days,
- [32:30]
A
which is even more important. I mean, as advances in technology and medicine continue, that's something like there are more and more options available to folks.
- [32:39]
B
A major push is usually to extend life no matter what, regardless of the quality of life.
- [32:43]
A
I think that's really important and really stands out to me.
- [32:47]
C
Yeah, exactly. Well, and I'll say, and this was a dozen years ago, that week that my late husband spent in the ER in the icu and we didn't know, but the difference between do everything possible to keep him alive until I get to the hospital, to those first few days where I'm like, please, please, please let him live no matter what. Those last few days, there was a very big shift that happened, and I was scared that he would have to be stuck like this. And he never regained consciousness. He could never participate in the world in any way at all. It was way past his quality of life. His injuries were unrecoverable. And after a week in the ER and the ICU, and this is, you know, 12 years ago or more, it costs like $350,000 or more, I believe it, for that week in the hospital. And had we not had health care, had, you know, there not been all of these other things in place, that medical debt, that amount of, like, you know, the bills, I started measuring them not in numbers of pages, but inches. There was like 4 or 5 inches of those, like, you know, those medical statements that you get. And I had to get like, two binders because it wouldn't fit in one binder. So quality of life is important. And I certainly don't want to say, you know, cost equals care, but it is really, really, really, really expensive. And if, you know, somebody doesn't want something, it's really important to have that information from them. So advance care directive. You give your directions in advance to people about your care and each of those documents. Often people will name their spouse or their, you know, their primary person as the main person, the power of attorney, the executor of the will, and the medical advocate. And that's great, and that's a great option. You should always list a backup in case that person, let's say, is, you know, in the Grand Canyon and off the grid for two weeks and you don't know where they are, you need a backup. And I have worked with and talked with many people who are like, I absolutely don't want my partner to have to handle all the finances. I'm going to hire somebody, or I'm going to ask my good friend who's an accountant to help with that and, you know, with transparency and communication. But I will say, during those months after my husband died, I had a young kid who I was trying to get to school on time. There were some days if I could, like, get up and find pants and get my son to school on time and, like, make one phone call, I was killing it. So it's a overwhelming amount of stuff to do. And you can spread that overwhelming amount of stuff to do. You can spread that love around to people who might be better at being a financial power of attorney.
- [35:56]
B
Yeah. And one of the things you say is that doing this stuff, not having done this stuff ahead of time makes it have. It makes a hard time harder. And so the things that we can do on the front end and help to alleviate some of those pain points on the back end. And you also say something about like, it eliminates hundreds of hours of work that a few hours on the front end can really alleviate, like many, many, many dozens of hours on the back end. Talk to me too about maybe where lawyers fit into this or where online services fit in. So for instance, getting life insurance, that's often something you can do online pretty easily. Or wills. If you have a simpler kind of family situation, you might be able to do that from a DIY perspective at a site like Trust and Will or Free Will or something like that. In which case is a lawyer necessary? And when do people, are people able to do it themselves online?
- [36:49]
C
Yeah, definitely. So there are more and more online options. They offer state by state templates and they kind of wizard you through the process like a turbo tax, but for your will and for a lot of folks who don't have property out of state, who don't have more than a few million dollars in assets, and with home prices being crazy, if your aunt is going to give you her house and she bought a beautiful place in the Bay Area 100 years ago, you probably, that's probably going to be worth more if you don't have complicated, let's say like a blended family situation or an overly litigious family member. If you don't have international citizenship, most many people using an online template is just fine for them. I would say that one of the things that happens is we really, really want to make these perfect documents. We want to have thought of every possible scenario, every possible edge case. And that can sometimes get us re stuck in the process of getting it done. So for me, I think it's most important to think about what's most important to you. Is it that your legal spouse is the one who is still on paper, is the one who is going to talk for you and get all of your assets, update a few of your documents and name somebody else as your medical advocate. Are you a solo parent and your biggest concern is guardianship of your children? Fill out a guardianship paper. You can, you can do these things kind of bit by bit. You don't have, you know, you can eat the elephant off your chest a bite at a time. And for those folks who spending the thousand, couple thousand dollars to work with an attorney, you may not know what you don't know. And this is the attorney's job. You can talk to a few. They usually offer free consultations for, you know, 20, 30 minutes and ask them how they charge and what they charge and you know you're going to probably get a much better, much more comprehensive plan if you talk to an attorney, if you're not going to, if you don't need to, if you had a bad experience with an attorney, and you just won't. And those online options can cost anywhere from free for a very, very basic, simple will to a few hundred dollars. And you can also get now some basic trust packages. And that's for folks who, if we want to talk about like beneficiary designations and handing off assets, one of the reasons why we do all of this stuff is because I think most importantly, it saves our family and friends those couple hundred extra hours of anguish trying to figure out where stuff is, who gets what. You know, like your weird neighbor Bob won't come over and steal the lawnmower. Or if it does, you can go back and get it because you're like, Bob, you're screwed. It's not yours. So it, it can make that really, really hard time, maybe just a bit softer for family members. Also, when it comes to like money transfer, all of your assets that go through a will, it takes, you know, it can take on average about a year and hundreds of hours. And also, you know, some of your assets are subject to federal inheritance tax, estate tax, different things. So a trust or naming beneficiaries on all of your financial accounts is one way to simplify your estate dramatically. So the stuff left in, like the, in your will is going to be an easier process. It's, you know, the Elvis costumes and the ABBA vinyl and not necessarily who gets the million dollar life insurance policy. And, and then people start fighting over the house.
- [41:09]
B
Well, talk to me real quick about beneficiaries because don't those typically supersede what your will states? Right. So you might think you're covered by putting the right thing in the will, but let's say your 401k, well, you never updated the beneficiary from 10 years ago when you left all your money to your best friend. And guess what? Now you're married and you want your partner to have that money. So, yeah, how important is it to go in there and update the beneficiaries in the back end of those retirement accounts?
- [41:32]
C
So important, right? Like in the case you just mentioned, you want your spouse, not maybe your best friend who tried to date your spouse to get the money and. Absolutely. Right. So if you listed somebody 20 years ago on a 401k that you started and then totally forgot about, and then next week spend a gazillion dollars on like the best will in the entire world, but forgot about that. That person you named 20 years ago is, is the one who will get it. So yes, transfer on death, payable on death, they trump the will, they beat the will. And nearly every financial account we all have has the option or, or the, you can have a beneficiary designation, your 401k, your checking, your saving, your investments, often, you know, stocks, pretty much anything you have. And then the other things that people can sometimes forget about is your life insurance policy. That is a transfer or payable on death account. It is immediately transferred to the person who's named as a beneficiary. And in about 2/3 of states there's also a transfer on death account deed option. And the process for that is, you know, essentially going to a county office and writing up some paperwork that isn't quite as easy as going to your online account and updating your beneficiaries on your, you know, your credit union account online, which takes about five minutes. There's a little bit more of a process. But for many, many people we have a life insurance policy, we have whatever savings we have. And for many folks, our homes are the biggest assets we have. And it isn't the perfect solution for everyone. And there may or may not be tax implications. But if, but for many people, they don't know that they can do a transfer on death deed and then that house would be transferred to somebody else and then, you know, and that's not even really talking about joint accounts and how joint accounts are often treated differently when it comes to after somebody dies as well. Yeah.
- [43:43]
A
And you're talking about how the rules vary from state to state and we're talking about wills here. I was surprised to learn in your book too you talk about, I think they're called holographic wills, which I did not know this was a thing. But literally if you write it out in your own handwriting, it's completely legal. Is that right in something like half of states in the country?
- [44:01]
C
Yeah. In some states I haven't actually looked that up in the last year or two. But a written will still is legally binding. You still need to have generally two witnesses see you sign the will and they sign it with you. Those holographic or those written wills are often less contested and I think more originally created an allowance for when it comes to people at, you know, wartime or on hospital beds. So I wouldn't, if you spent, you know, a ton of money coming up with like a really bomb proof estate plan in one of those like leather Bound things. And then somebody shows up like, oh, no, they wrote this on this post it note and they said I should have it all. Like, that may not actually be as watertight as you might think, but. But yeah. And, you know, also, I always get in trouble when I say this, but you are not legally required to have your will notarized for it to be legally binding. Is it a good idea? Yes. Do attorneys say you should do it? Yes. Do I think you should do it? Yes. You can hire a mobile notary to come to your office or a coffee shop. It helps make it even that much more secure. But for a lot of folks, you know, choosing a guardian can be a big hard blocker because it's hard to do. And executing that will, you know, like you and your partner or you can't get to the bank with a notary. And so that, I think, is one of the reasons why. Well, that. That's me making excuses. I'll say, you know, it's.
- [45:38]
A
Well, it's a hurdle.
- [45:39]
C
It's a hurdle. It is indeed.
- [45:40]
A
It can be something that keeps you from where the perfection is the enemy of the good. Enough. And I like a lot of what you're saying here is just truly about getting the ball rolling. And I think more of our listeners in particular could are benefiting from hearing this conversation because they're thinking, man, I don't have to have it perfect. It doesn't need to be perfectly buttoned up.
- [45:57]
B
Don't let that be the enemy of
- [45:58]
A
good, where it's never going to ever change. It's like, this is something that we can revisit. Like you said, this is something, as long as you get the ball rolling, that can go a really long ways. But we've got a few more questions for you here. Chanel in particular, just kind of navigating some of the relational waters. Sometimes they can get murky. We'll get to those right after this.
- [46:22]
B
Say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or
- [46:38]
A
spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one. Use empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today@empower.com not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. Okay, Joel, I am excited about this one. Here on the show, we are all about comparing prices to save money on so many things in life. So why wouldn't we compare prices for our next ride share? Taking a few seconds to check Lyft can save you real money on your next ride. I did this last time. I caught a ride home from the airport after some travel and guess who came out on top? It was Lyft. Don't just price check with your flights and phone plans and groceries. Comparing rideshare prices will help you to save money every time you ride. Save money?
- [47:23]
B
Check Lyft Man. We've hired some great folks to work behind the scenes with us at how2money over the years if you're a small business, you know this the right hire can make or break things for you. Hoping the right people see your job. Posting is not the best growth strategy. So when the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs.
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A
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- [48:03]
B
when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. All right, let's keep going. Matt, we are talking with Chanel Reynolds. We're talking about preparing for the unthinkable, planning for uncertain life events, things that we hope don't come to pass, but the reality is we're not promised tomorrow. And so Chanel, I guess when you were talking earlier, it made me think about not just preparing for myself, for my family, my wife, my kids, but it made me think about my parents. And they are in their upper 60s and I don't know where any of their stuff is. Like, I know a few things because we've talked about I've helped them with some of their retirement planning and stuff like that. So I know kind of roughly where they stand on some of these things. But if, if something were to incapacitate one of them, like I think I would be up the creek I wouldn't know where to go. So do you have any tips for talking to a loved one, a parent, specifically, about some of these things and how to. Because you were talking about your parents trying to lead a horse to water, Right. How do you actually help make sure that your parents are prepared and so that you're in turn prepared when or if something happens to them?
- [49:36]
C
Yeah, absolutely. It's such a good question. And, you know, depending on your family, people can meet with different levels of enthusiasm, we'll call it, when bringing up this subject with their parents and for personal reasons, religious reasons, cultural reasons, emotional reasons, childhood trauma reasons, who knows? Like, it can be a really uncomfortable topic. So one thing there, there are a few suggestions I have. One is if you start with you, that can be a good place. For example, for about five years after my late husband died, I would pretty much run around and put anyone like in a half nelson and try to shame them into getting their estate plans together. And was that really like, motivating and successful plan? No, it wasn't. When I would say to my close friends or my close family members or my parents and my brother, hey, I updated all of my documents again, that creates an opportunity to say, hey, this just reminds me, I don't know where your current documents are. I don't know exactly what you'd want or how I can make sure I know what you want, so I can make sure you, you get that. And so I like that. That can be a great way to turn it into like a gift and a sharing rather than an obligation, you know, going up to your parents, as I probably did, however long ago, and saying, so you guys are getting older. Do you have your wills done? Like, that may not be the best way to do it. Also, the shame guilt route. The shame guilt route, you know, it might work in other families. And then one thing too is that it can be. It's often not just one conversation. Some people, you know, if you bring up the topic of like, hey, let's talk about, you know, your end of life or your funeral plans, do you want to be, you know, recomposed? Do you want to be cremated? I know we've got the family plot somewhere. More, more often than people might expect, the conversation blossoms quickly and openly. And it can be such a huge reassurance sometimes people aren't immediately interested in having that conversation. So, you know, come at it from a few different entry points. Is it like, I want to be able to advocate for you? Is it. Tell me some stories about what's Most important to you, one of the things that often happens when parents or somebody is getting to the point where they may not be able to live independently or in the home that they're in right now, often the first question I get or where people get the frustration energy centers is on what do I do with all this stuff? And sometimes like they're like, well, I gotta go into the garage or I gotta go into the basement and start throwing out all my parents stuff. And it's gonna be really hard because my mom or my dad is gonna take the stuff out of the truck and put it back inside. So rather than starting with the detritus of our lives and our stuff, I think it's so fascinating and so helpful to ask what are the most important things to you? And so if you had not one minute and not 10 hours, but if you had an hour in your house to grab safely anything before the aliens arrive or a fire starts, what would you get and take with you what's most important to you in an hour? And then those are the things that you know are the most important. And then you can say, oh, so great. So tell me more about how we can make sure your sister gets this thing. So like starting with the important stuff rather than starting with the fear or the worry or the, you know, boxes of national geographics from the 70s that are in the attic can be a really good way to start the conversation too.
- [53:41]
A
I love that. And it makes it more relational as well. Right. Because then it's something that sparks conversation and stories from the past that they then get to share with you. My father in law, he's actually over time he's been sending my kids letters with little notes and literally yesterday he sent, he included track and field medal that he won in high school that he shared with one of my daughters specifically. And this is something he's been carrying around for 50 years. Right. And so it, it's obviously meant something to him. And so the ability to kind of share that with my daughter and kind of talk through this was it makes the relationship that you have now with that parent who is aging even richer, which I love. And I love that this is kind of the approach I think you're taking where you're either just starting with you, you're asking some of these questions knowing that this isn't a singular conversation that you're going to have, but that it's something that might evolve over time. And I think the same thing can be true. And you know, we talked about living wills, healthcare directives that kind of thing, too. But even when it comes to funeral plans, because I think oftentimes it's just one of those morbid topics, and folks don't really want to spend time talking about that at all. But that can. Having brought that up, can provide so much relief to those who have to make some pretty heavy decisions afterwards, right?
- [55:02]
C
Absolutely. So, you know, I think back to when I had spent that week in the hospital. We'd removed medical support. The only thing in my head at that moment was, you know, going home and having to tell my son that his dad's body died. And I didn't even know how to say that or, like, how the words would come out of my mouth. And then leaving the hospital, I had no idea that I would have to pick a funeral home right away. I had no idea that you had about, you know, 24, 48 hours before the body now, you know, had to get moved to somewhere. And at that point, it had been a week for me in the hospital. Other people have spent, you know, years managing a diagnosis or months in hospice, and we hadn't really thought about what happens after you die. I knew he didn't want to be buried and wanted to be cremated. I had some of the information, but I was not ready or prepared or even had any idea that funeral plans, death care and after death plans are like, right now, it's like, oh, okay. There are more options, too, than we realize that, you know, in a number of states, there is a recomposition, body recomposting or composting process that's legal in a few states. And more and more are signing on. There's Aquamation, so talking about what's important and, you know, whether that's being buried in your Elvis impersonator outfit or whether that's, you know, having somebody bring your body home or be home for a day. There are a number of things you can do. You just have more options, which is. Which is really great. And, you know, somebody could say, I had no idea that I had. I didn't just get to pick cremation or burial. And now you've got a beautiful plot buried under a tree. You never know.
- [57:01]
B
Yeah, that is interesting, too, because I always think of it as literally the two options. Do you want to be cremated or do you want to be buried? But, yeah, it's. The options seem to have expanded these days. So those. Those conversations are important to have, too. Chanel, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Where can our listeners find out more about you what you're up to. And you even have, like, checklists and resources on your website to help people kind of start to have these conversations and do the things that need to be done to be fully prepared. Right?
- [57:30]
C
Definitely. Yeah. You can go to chanelreynolds.com which has got all of the information about get your stuff together. And I have free checklists. You can get the book. And I also offer classes and workshops. Once the pandemic hit and we were all home, a lot of my classes and workshops and talks moved online. And now I can do classes with groups of people from all over the country, which is really fun. So, yeah, check out my website or send me a note through the website and I'd be happy to chat with anyone as well.
- [58:05]
A
Love it. Chanel, thank you so much for talking with us today.
- [58:07]
C
Thank you so much. It's such a great conversation. Really appreciate it. Joel and Matt, thanks so much.
- [58:12]
B
All right, Matt, that was a. That's a great combo with Chanel and
- [58:15]
A
just such an important conversation.
- [58:17]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [58:17]
A
Right.
- [58:18]
B
Crucial. And it, to me, it gives me the information that I need to actually get the ball rolling, but also kind of the swift kick to the pants that it's going to take for me to actually get some of these things done, too.
- [58:28]
A
Yeah. Well, what's interesting, we kind of chatted with her quickly after we hung up there, but one of the things she didn't include in her story was the fact was how her husband died and the fact, like, he was biking, he was bicycling. And it's one of the things that drew us to her story. This is something that we do all the time. And so we're often drawn towards the urgent and not necessarily the things that are really important to have in place until you're faced with a story like this where you can see yourself in that situation. And I mean, literally, we, like, we're the same age as she and her husband about a decade ago.
- [59:01]
B
That's right. Okay. One of the things she said, too, right after we wrapped. What was your big takeaway was how much you could save by doing the right thing on the front end.
- [59:09]
A
Right.
- [59:09]
B
So having the will, right, it avoids some of those potential legal costs. Some of the costs you might, the court costs, the lawyer fees. So if you are frugal, the right thing to do is to actually get some of these things done. You might say, oh, I don't want to pay the $180 to get the will made, but that $180 could save you thousands or tens of thousands of dollars on the back end. So even though she didn't actually say that, like, during the podcast, she said it right after we, like when we were just chatting afterwards.
- [59:38]
A
Well, that's the financial argument.
- [59:39]
B
Yeah. And I'm like, all right, that's my big takeaway from. From this conversation with Chanel was just like, hey, guess what? Like, if you care about the money, you have worked your butt off to save and invest, and you want to protect that inheritance for future generations, for your spouse, for the people that you. That you love, and you want to inherit the things that you've amassed in the case of the most unfortunate event ever happening, then you're going to want to plan ahead. You're going to want to get these things done even though they cost money.
- [60:07]
A
Exactly. And you want to do them ahead of time. And I loved. She kind of an analogy was when we were talking about emergency funds, and she was saying, it's hard to scrape together an emergency fund when you're in the middle of an emergency. And the same thing applies when it comes to a lot of this end of life stuff. But that's not my official big takeaway. She was talking about digital hygiene. And one of the parameters that she put around how it is that you should approach keeping up with your information and passing along logins and accounts was going with systems that you, A, already have in place or B, that you know are going to be successful because you can try to take this giant bite out of something that you think is, well, this is. We got to do it this way. Because it's. This is how you're supposed to do it. This is how it's going to be perfect. But the fact is, it needs to be something that you're actually going to keep up with that's going to work for whoever the intended audience is going to be.
- [60:57]
B
It's like the same thing with working out. Like, do the workout routine that you know you can stick to, stick with. Not the one that's the most ambitious. Exactly.
- [61:04]
A
So that was my big, big takeaway. And I think that that can make this seem much more approachable to a lot of folks out there.
- [61:10]
B
Agree.
- [61:10]
A
But. All right, let's get back to our beer, you and I.
- [61:12]
B
By the way, she does have a lot of info on her website that we'll link to. They're checklists, literal, great recommendations. And so if you're like, all right, I need someone to kind of hold my hand through this, Chanel is the right person to help you do that?
- [61:23]
C
Totally.
- [61:23]
B
But yeah. Yeah. Let's get back to the beer. So this one beer time, it's called Megalodon American Imperial Red. It's home brewed by our listener Greg, lives around the corner. Greg, he's been telling me that he makes beer for a long time. And finally we're getting to try it. So what were your thoughts on this one?
- [61:36]
A
This was so good.
- [61:37]
B
Yeah.
- [61:38]
A
I'll be honest. A lot of times when folks are like, you got to try my home brew. It's okay.
- [61:42]
B
Tastes like arsenic sauce sometimes. Right?
- [61:44]
A
But this being an imperial red, there is so much stinking flavor in this thing. I mean, it's. It's really impressive. You've got such a strong backbone with this being an imperial. Right. So no matter what, there's gonna be a lot of flavors packed in there, but you don't have too many reds. And so just the. I would say the floral notes that he's able to kind of coax out of, out of the malts in order to make this red phenomenal.
- [62:06]
B
It's like an so good, underutilized style. And so it's always fun to try something that's a little off the wall, little. Little unique. And so Greg did a great job with this beer. It's like roasty.
- [62:16]
A
Super impressed.
- [62:17]
B
Oh, yeah, it's.
- [62:18]
A
Some roasty notes were.
- [62:20]
B
Yeah, it's piney. It's like caramel with a little bit of citrus twist. And so it. This kind of tastes incredibly well balanced.
- [62:27]
A
I would pay top dollar for this. Seriously, it's a really good beer.
- [62:30]
B
Greg gave it to us for free. So big thanks to Greg. Greg B.
- [62:33]
A
We owe you a beer.
- [62:33]
B
Yes, we do. We do. And you know who you are.
- [62:35]
A
I don't need a full last name.
- [62:37]
B
Thanks for. Thanks for letting us try your beer on today's episode.
- [62:40]
A
This was.
- [62:41]
B
Yeah, but Matt, that's going to do it. For this episode again, we'll put links to all the important stuff in the show. Notes up on our website@howtomoney.com that's right, buddy.
- [62:48]
A
So until next time.
- [62:49]
B
Best friends out.
- [62:50]
A
Best friends out. Is it just me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Well, fidelity can help you to find clarity. So you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking, and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way.
- [63:22]
B
Get started@fidelity.com future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services Member NYSE SIPC
- [63:35]
A
okay Joel, I am excited about this one. Here on the show we are all about comparing prices to save money on so many things in life. So why wouldn't we compare prices for our next ride share? Taking a few seconds to check Lyft can save you real money on your next ride. I did this last time. I caught a ride home from the airport after some travel and guess who came out on top? It was Lyft. Don't just price check with your flights and phone plans and groceries. Comparing rideshare prices will help you to save money every time you ride. Save money Check Lyft say you've always
- [64:07]
B
wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? Like treating yourself to something special or
- [64:22]
A
spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one? Use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today@empower.com not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. This is an iHeart podcast.
- [64:40]
C
Guaranteed human.