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- [00:00]
Joel
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- [00:19]
Matt
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- [00:36]
Scott Kai
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- [01:38]
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- [02:35]
Joel
Welcome to How To Money. I'm Joel. I'm Matt and today we're talking The Cheap Travel Truth with Scott Kai.
- [03:00]
Matt
Yeah. Who doesn't wish that they were currently listening to this episode while lounging on the beach or like maybe on a European adventure, maybe even completely off the grid hiking some somewhere Amazing. Joel. It makes me think of like the old show who Wants to be a Millionaire? It's like who wants to be a world traveler? Except that this is something that people actually have a shot at doing because of who we're talking with. Our guest today is no stranger to how to money. Scott Kais. He's the founder of Going. It's the travel platform that was formerly known as Scott's Cheap Flights. And over at Going, Scott is all about helping travelers snag the absolute best flight deals. They've got over 2 million subscribers there, which is just incredible. He was just talking about how busy he's been. He was just on Good Morning America. And even though you may not be a subscriber yourself, I think you're going to get a lot out of our conversation today, especially if you are interested in doing a little more traveling. Scott, thank you for coming back on how to Money.
- [03:56]
Talkspace Ad
Ah, so good to be back. Thanks to the both of you, of course.
- [03:59]
Joel
Glad to have you. Scott, the question we asked you a couple years ago when you were on and we're going to ask you again is what do you like to splurge on? What's your craft beer equivalent? We know you're smart, you're saving for your future, but. But you got to splurge on something too, right? What is it?
- [04:11]
Talkspace Ad
I'm gonna throw you a curveball here. My personal splurge credit card fees. I look back and over the past year I think I've spent over $2,000 in credit card fees. Now you're probably hearing that like, Scott, what is wrong with you? But the thing is, what that $2,000 bought me is somewhere between 1 and 2 million frequent flyer miles.
- [04:37]
Joel
Wow.
- [04:38]
Talkspace Ad
And those frequent flyer miles is how I'm able to travel with my family of four to, you know, we're going to Japan this summer, going to Montana in a few weeks. Be able to get these flights for basically next to nothing using those frequent flyer miles. So for me that's a. Those credit card fees for those sign up bonuses are well worth it because it lets us travel in a way that's much more affordable than it would be otherwise.
- [05:04]
Matt
The fees are worth the squeeze. That's what Scott says.
- [05:07]
Talkspace Ad
As long as you're handling it responsibly. Look, the whole that's. I could spend, you know, 10 hours.
- [05:14]
Matt
Leave that to us. That's, that's what we spend all the rest of our episodes doing, Scott.
- [05:18]
Talkspace Ad
100%.
- [05:18]
Joel
How much money in flights do you think $2,000 annually in credit card fees saves you.
- [05:24]
Talkspace Ad
Oh, goodness. So, I mean, a million points would probably get us. I mean, if we're flying domestically, let's say that would get us 25,000 points per person. That'd be 100,000 points per family trip. Ten flights, let's say each costs usually I don't call it $500. So that'd be saving at least three or $4,000 on flights, probably more. Because the more you try use those for international travel, the higher the savings and frankly, the more you use them for that front of the plane redemptions. If you're ever traveling in business class or something like that, that's where the real savings are. You know, I'll let you guys in on a hidden secret. In air travel, most people who are traveling at the front of the plane, if they're not, you know, multi millionaires of the time and they're not traveling on business, they're using frequent flyer miles to sit. And that's how people get access to those seats.
- [06:22]
Matt
They're not just, they're not just rich.
- [06:23]
Joel
They'Re just, they're savvy.
- [06:24]
Talkspace Ad
They're savvy, exactly. If they're, if they're not uber wealthy, they're just using miles to get up there. That is the secret kind of access point to those, those lie flat business class seats that everybody fawns over on Instagram.
- [06:38]
Matt
Very cool. All right, got to keep that in mind. Let's talk about before we go full on into the travel, Scott, can you talk about the relationship between the economy, just like as a whole, and airfare prices? Like, does stock market volatility, does tariff policy, have you seen that impact travel demand and the prices that we pay for travel?
- [07:00]
Talkspace Ad
I'm so glad you guys start off on such a simple softball question. Just a really easy one.
- [07:05]
Matt
I figured by the third time you're on the show, we can kind of, we can go ahead and load up.
- [07:08]
Joel
That's right.
- [07:09]
Talkspace Ad
Seriously. No, it's. Look, it's a complicated question. And here's what, here's from a high level, what happens when there are economic downturns? Historically, you do see travelers pull back in their spending. You know, people consider travel as largely a quote unquote discretionary purchase. And so when they're tightening their belts, you can't always, you know, scrimp on rent or food. And so you scrimp instead on travel plans. What is a little bit different I think right now in this, this, you know, fears of economic downturn today versus previous ones is that over the past few years coming out of the pandemic, there's been a huge rush towards more premium travel. A lot of people spending more to sit towards the front of the plane to fly more, you know, international nonstop, just spending more on travel, on sort of more pampered flights and travel in the first place. And so what I could foresee happening this time is a lot of those who had been sitting purchasing a premium economy or business class flights, tightening their belt doesn't necessarily mean not vacationing. It just might mean coming back into economy rather than sitting up towards the front of the plane. Now, there will be some people who fly economy today who might be canceling vacations, but you actually might see basically a level amount, you know, no real drop off in demand for economy seats going forward, even if there's an economic downturn, just the compositional shift of who is purchasing those. So you might see flight prices actually not get cheap, significantly cheaper the way they have in previous economic downturns because there are a lot of people who are coming up from higher and sort of downgrading themselves into the back of the plane. That's my, that's my guess coming into this. The good news, I think there's going to be a lot more availability for people who do have the money to purchase premium economy or business class, and certainly for people with those miles to be able to get more award availability.
- [09:14]
Joel
How, how does like the way other countries view US impact our travel economy? Right. Like, there have been stories about Canadians reacting to tariffs and they're like, I'm not going to vacation in the United States.
- [09:25]
Matt
Yeah, they're boycotting.
- [09:26]
Joel
Which makes sense to me. Like, that's totally understandable. What sort of impact does that have on airlines and airfare?
- [09:33]
Talkspace Ad
Quite a bit. You know, by, by, by some estimates anywhere from 10 or somewhere around 10% of the worldwide economy is based travel or travel related, you know, and that includes everything from hotels and airlines and stuff to also like restaurants and things that tourists tend to engage in. So this is not a small part of the worldwide economy. It is substantial. And so when you see a lot of Canadians or Mexicans or Europeans who otherwise were planning to visit the US to pull back from that because they just, you know, whether negative sentiment or whatever about the United States, that is, that's something that is very directly felt by a lot of hotel proprietors, restaurateurs, like different parts of the economy. Now we are a large enough country that it doesn't have quite the same impact that if, you know, if we were a small, largely tourism based economy and you saw a pullback, that would be devastating. But it definitely hurts at the margin. And especially if you're in this situation where there's already economic anxiety about, you know, you see the stock market down 10, 15%. If, then also sales at your restaurant are, are going down, sales at your hotel are going down. That is, that's, that, that's not good. So for folks who do work in tourism related industries, I would be pretty concerned about the lack of, about significantly fewer international arrivals. I think for most other folks who are working, it probably is a little bit orthogonal. It's not necessarily something that they're going to feel a direct impact in their day to day life.
- [11:18]
Matt
Okay, let's, let's take a step back. Let's zoom out slightly from the day by day or maybe week by week tariff policy, minute by minute, just depends on how closely you watch it. But let's step back, zoom out a little bit. Because airfare prices, they have outpaced inflation over the past few years. Like I'm thinking about how revenge travel was a thing a couple of years ago or a few years ago, but like in a segment with lots of choice and a fair amount of competition, was it just the fact that we could not see the airlines respond quickly enough to the increase in demand due to maybe perhaps the stimulus money, the excess cash that we saw that folks had on hand?
- [11:57]
Talkspace Ad
So airfare is something that is, I call it the most volatile thing that people purchase. It's always bopping up and down. It's not like even something else that changes frequently, like gas prices, usually that's changing just a little bit here and there. And you tend to see it. You know, if gas prices go up from $3, to call it 330, it's usually going to hit 310 and then 320 and then 330 and it's kind of gradually creeping up. Whereas airfare, you know, I talk about this flight I was watching once from Atlanta to Amsterdam. I searched it on Monday, it was $800 round trip. Searched it again the next day on Tuesday, $300 round trip. Searched the flight again on Wednesday. Thirteen hundred dollars round trip. And we're talking about the exact same flight. I mean, nothing else.
- [12:48]
Joel
As much as the price of eggs fluctuates these days.
- [12:50]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah, yeah, Exactly. Other than eggs, nothing else quite behaves the way airfare does. And so that type of volatility is not sort of accidental to airfare. It's sort of inherent in the way that it behaves. And there's really complicated reasons why that's the case. But suffice to say that kind of topsy turviness is just, just essential to what airfare is now. When you look at airfare over the past, basically coming out of the pandemic. So let's say for the past five years, what you saw is of course it crash immediately in March 2020 and then really in, in spring and summer of, of 2022 really surged significantly higher than where it was pre pandemic. But after summer 2022, and this doesn't get quite as much eyeball or attention, it actually really came down substantially where to the point that airfare today is actually cheaper than it was in February 2020. It's 1% lower than it was. And that's without even adjusting for inflation. So everything economy wide, you know, it's somewhere 20, 25% more expensive than it was in February 2020, airfare 1% cheaper than it was. It's 17% cheaper than its peak in June 2022. And if you adjust for overall inflation, it's around, it's around record lows right now. It's kind of this remarkable untold story that even as most things in our lives are getting more and more expensive, airfare is actually getting cheaper. But I think it's hard to explain, it's hard to tell because again, I go back to that volatility. When you're searching for flights, you might see one that is low, and then you search it again, it gets high and you search it again, it stays in the middle. It's hard to kind of get a good grasp of the way we can with gas prices, where every time we're driving down the road we see what it costs and it's pretty consistent.
- [14:53]
Joel
So yeah, one of the things, the volatility is this a case in which folks who aren't paying attention are essentially subsidizing the folks who are the people you talked about, people sitting at the front of the plane, they're often not the rich people or the savvy people, is the people who save the most money on airfare. Are they the ones who don't just say, I got to go to this place on this date, buy the ticket. They're the ones who are doing the research and taking the extra time?
- [15:16]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah. I think it's partly doing the research, but I think it's also the people who are savvy enough to pull the trigger when the price is right. So if you think of an airplane, you know, 200 seats on it, it is very likely that if it has 200 passengers, that they paid 200 different prices to be there. I mean, you know, I slightly exaggerate. It's pro like 100 or 125 different prices. But for argument's sake, let's say it's 200 different prices. You are having the exact same experience as the person sitting next to you on that airplane, but one of you may have paid double to be there than the other person. And so obviously our job, like the whole reason I started going in the first place, was to make sure that our members are the ones who are paying half the price of the person sitting next to them. But the way that folks tend to get that is again, by pulling the trigger when the price is right. And you never know exactly when it's going to be cheapest. If you did, you know, airline, nobody would ever overpay airlines. The whole airline pricing model would be broken. And so instead, what you have to do is kind of have a sense on when cheap flights are most likely to pop up. But then when they do, make sure you book it. Because, you know, I'll give you an example. My wife is flying out to Boston from Portland on the west coast to Boston to visit her nephew. And flights usually would cost 300, 350 bucks for round trip for that route, if you're talking about a nonstop flight. But a couple, about a week or two ago, you know, I got an alert from the, from the app that, hey, flight prices from Portland to Boston just dropped down to $117 round trip. So went ahead and just booked it really quick because I knew, hey, look, this is an amazing price. It's way better than normal, and it's unlikely to go any lower. Let's just book this now. And lo and behold, after, you know, a day after we booked it, it bopped back up to $250. So the thing about flight prices is you don't. It doesn't have to stay at 117. You just have to catch it when it's at that low price. Because when it goes back up, no big deal. You've already locked in the low price.
- [17:30]
Joel
Can'T sit on your hands.
- [17:31]
Matt
You got to be ready to pounce. You got to be exact, pull that trigger. We're talking about just Some of the services y'all offer. We gotta talk about mistake fares. And one of your airfare predictions for this year for 2025 was that we'd see something like 3 to 7 of these mistake fares. How many have popped up so far? And I guess, like, maybe explain to listeners how these things actually come about and yeah, maybe what steps we need to be that we need to take ahead of time to be able to take advantage of these mistake fares.
- [18:01]
Joel
Someone get fired behind the scenes for publishing that mistake fare.
- [18:05]
Talkspace Ad
There are definitely times when people have gotten fire at airlines as a result of mistake fares. I like to think it's pretty uncommon. I like to. I like to hope that management is charitable. We all make mistakes in it, in our lives, and hopefully most of us aren't losing our jobs over that. But the way what a mistake fair is at its core is when an airline accidentally sells a ticket for 90, 95% less than it intended to. You know, back about a decade ago, I personally got a deal from New York City to Milan for $130 round trip. It was a nonstop flight on United, bags included, the whole, the works. And that was a ticket that they probably meant to sell for $1300, but they forgot a zero at the end. But, you know, if you, if you just book it happen, jump on it before they fix the mistake, then you are the proud owner of the. Probably the best deal you've ever gotten in your life. Those are mistake fares. They're the holy grail of the cheap war of the cheap flight world. That's what we're kind of waking up every morning hoping to find. So, yeah, you're right. I predicted, you know, yeah, I think it was 3 to 6, 3 to 7 mistake fares this year, which is about in line with what we've seen over the past few years. I think my team, my, you know, I've got. It's not just me at going. It's. We've got a team of 55 people. I think some of the flight experts whose job it is to find these deals every day, they're out to embarrass me because they've already found three mistake fares. And it's not even, you know, we're a quarter of the way through 2025. So there was one over to premium economy flight over to Spain usually cost, you know, closer to $2,000. It was a mistake fair for as little as $603 round trip. A flight down to Brazil for $287 round trip. I mean, these types of deals Are wild. My favorite one was in recent memory was one in the middle of 2024, flight over to Dublin for $114 round trip. This on, you know, Delta and Air France. This is not some bomb airline you've never heard of or anything. These, these types of deals, you know, they're totally random, they're unpredictable, and they don't tend to last long. Is the other thing you've got to book them at really, you know, in a matter of hours, usually.
- [20:24]
Matt
Oh, yeah.
- [20:25]
Talkspace Ad
And so that's why finding out about it as early as possible gives you as much, much time to decide if you're going to take advantage.
- [20:31]
Matt
It's the kind of trip that even if I wasn't planning to travel, Scott, like the ability to show a little bit of flexibility. I mean, that's certainly where 100%.
- [20:41]
Talkspace Ad
I mean, that $130 Milan flight. I woke up that morning with zero intention of booking a flight to Italy. It was the furthest thing from my mind. But when I stumbled across that fare, didn't take a whole lot of convincing, I'll tell you that.
- [20:53]
Matt
You're like, well, I guess I got to do that now.
- [20:55]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah, exactly. I guess I'm going to Milan. I'm not a fashionable guy. Am I even welcome there?
- [21:01]
Joel
I'm sure you upped your wardrobe while you were. While you were there.
- [21:04]
Matt
White T shirt and black jeans. I think you could pull that off, Scott.
- [21:07]
Talkspace Ad
I definitely splurged on some, like, you know, skiing in the Alps, went to an AC Milan soccer game, went hiking in Cinque Terre. Like, some of the. Took some of those flight savings and just reallocated it to other parts of the trip.
- [21:19]
Joel
That's awesome. I think what you're getting at, too, here is flexibility. One flexibility in being able to just, like, purchase something really quickly, but also flexibility on where you're going. Like, you. You didn't wake up wanting to go to Milan, but you ended up going there because the deal was so good. So talk about the importance of flexibility when we're booking cheap airfare. Like when you fly, the airline you fly and even the destination.
- [21:41]
Talkspace Ad
Absolutely. So, look, I think, you know, when I'm asked for the best cheap flights tip that I can offer, there are two types of trips. The type of trip where you've got specific dates and place you want to go and you're hoping to get the best deal, that's got a whole different set of recommend. But when you've got that, you know, you're talking about a vacation. Oh, I'M just hoping to get away, go somewhere with my significant other, my family, whatever it is. Those are the types of vacations where flexibility is by far the most important thing that you can do to get a cheap flight. So the way that most people, and tell me, Matt and Joel if this sounds familiar, the way that most people plan their vacations is a three step process. They say step one, you decide where you want to go. Step two, you decide when you want to go there. And then step three, you look, well, what are the flights cost? What's airfare look like? Does that sound familiar?
- [22:38]
Joel
The only, I might swap 1 and 2 and I might say the dates sometimes supersede the destination.
- [22:43]
Matt
With kids on the school calendar, man, you're locked in.
- [22:46]
Talkspace Ad
That academic calendar is non negotiation spring break.
- [22:49]
Matt
Where are we going?
- [22:49]
Talkspace Ad
Totally, totally. So step one and two, when and where. Step three, what are the flights? Flights cost? Understandable. It's the traditional way of planning a vacation. But what I like to tell folks is that look, if you, if cheap flights are a priority, if you're really hoping to get a good deal, take that same three step process and flip it on its head. Don't make cheap, don't make the price of airfare the last priority. Make it the first priority. Step one, what cheap flights are available from my home airport? Understanding that this is something that changes every single day. Oh, you know, there's a, let's say you live in New York. Oh, there's a flight right now over to Greece for $352. You know, round trip. That's a real deal that we found this week, by the way. Or I could go to Barcelona for 450 or I could go down to Bermuda for 285. Okay, step two, you know of those places that are cheap, which one interests you the most? Oh, I'd love to go to Athens. You know, I've never been been there and I've been big classical history buff. Step three, what dates work for my schedule? Oh, you know, we could go in late May, the weather seems great, good time to get away. So by setting price as the top priority rather than the last priority, that's how you end up getting really cheap flights and being able to take three or four vacations for the same price you used to pay for one. I think a lot of us just kind of by inertia or without thinking, sacrifice that flexibility that we inherently have on those vacations without even realizing it. And then we're surprised that why are, why the heck are flights, flights so Expensive. Every time I search, it seems like they're, you know, a thousand or two thousand dollars. Without realizing that in some ways we've kind of done it to ourselves. And by setting, by, by, by not taking away that flexibility, at least being able to compare what a destinations cost on different dates and then decide which one seems like the best for you and your situation. That's what I advocate for folks so that, you know, you wouldn't walk into a restaurant and, you know, just, just wave off the waiter bringing you the menu and be like, I'll have the sirloin and then be shocked, you know, when it's a $60, $70 bill or something, be like, I actually want to.
- [25:00]
Matt
See some people do and be able to compare the Joel's. The Joel's of the world. No matter what I'm getting, the steak.
- [25:05]
Joel
Money'S no object to me.
- [25:07]
Talkspace Ad
Well, that bring, bring me your finest meat garcon.
- [25:10]
Matt
That is a certain type of traveler.
- [25:11]
Joel
Of course, market price, I can afford that.
- [25:13]
Matt
But what about, I mean, you did mention, like, it's a different set of criteria or a different strategy if you do have specific dates. So for instance, like your wife, you mentioned her going to Boston. It sounds like one of the strategies you employed was just to regularly check in in order to sort of snag it as, as the pendulum is swinging and you're trying to nail it, like right in the middle. I picture some sort of like Chuck E. Cheese game where you have to like, yeah, is that what you're doing?
- [25:36]
Talkspace Ad
Basically, so the, the way that when you've got a specific trip in mind, you know, specific dates, you're hoping to go for spring break, there's. You'll still benefit from flexibility. So even if you're only going, you know, you only have something break free. If you only look at Miami, might be pretty expensive, you're like, well, I'll keep an eye on Miami and Charleston and Houston and la and see, you know, where it pops up. You're going to have a lot higher odds of cheap flights. But let's say you're going to Nashville in September for your sister's wedding. You know, you can't negotiate with her on the, on when the wedding is going to be so you can get a better flight deal. You just got to go. The best way to get cheap flights or to avoid, at least avoid overpaying for those real kind of inflexible travel plans is to get the timing of your booking right. And getting the timing right is not, you know, you'll see, you'll read online. Sometimes they'll say, oh, you got a book, you know, 63 days in advance or you got to book Tuesdays at 1pm none of those are good advice. Those are terrible advice. Pieces of advice instead, and the best way to do it is to think about in terms of what I call a Goldilocks window. Not too early, not too late, just right in the middle. And during these Goldilocks windows is when cheap flights are at their have the best odds of popping up. You've got the best, the highest likelihood of seeing a cheap flight. It still is low odds. But you know, you might see a 5% chance every day during a Goldilocks window of a cheap flight popping up on, on your route versus maybe only a 1% chance outside of a Goldilock window. So it depends if you're flying peak or off peak travel dates and it depends if you're flying domestic or international. For off peak domestic flights about one to three months in advance, that's when you're most likely to see those cheap flights popping up for peak traveling. You know, spring break, summer, Christmas, New Year, you're most likely to see it three to six months in advance. It's a little bit further out and. But if you're hoping to travel internationally, a couple months added to each of those. So you know, two to eight months for off peak, four to ten months in advance advance for peak travel dates. Again, it's not a guarantee. Not every flight is cheap during a Goldilocks window, but it's when you're at the best odds. I like to say that. Look, think about LeBron James. Every time he steps on a basketball court, he's favored to win, but it doesn't mean he never loses a game. This is when your odds are good, but it doesn't mean you're always going to see it during those. So you'll never see it outside of a Goldilocks window.
- [28:13]
Joel
This is where Scott announces his fanduel endorsements.
- [28:16]
Talkspace Ad
Well, I'm an Ohio boy growing up, so I gotta, I have to maintain my LeBron loyalty even. Even as a Trailblazers fan these days.
- [28:24]
Joel
Yes. All right, Scott, we've got more to get to with you, including we want to talk more about fare alerts and also I want to run a travel scenario by you. We'll get to that and more right after this.
- [28:39]
Matt
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- [28:54]
Joel
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- [29:19]
Matt
So if you want an all in one banking experience that lets you keep on banking on sign up today. Learn more@navy federal.org @navy federal the members are the mission Navy Federal Credit Union insured by NCUA hey there folks. I am Matt.
- [29:34]
Joel
And I'm Joel from the how to Money Show. Matt, it's April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.
- [29:42]
Matt
Oh, dude. Typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some inspiration. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever, so we're going to try to find something along the coast. Maybe. Maybe some sand to dip my toes into.
- [29:59]
Joel
I like it.
- [30:00]
Matt
But how about you?
- [30:01]
Joel
Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.
- [30:09]
Matt
I know about Helen.
- [30:09]
Joel
Yeah, well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a hot tub, which I'm definitely going to need after running a trail half marathon while I'm up there too.
- [30:17]
Matt
Oh, that is right. I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot tub, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb, earning some extra cash while you are away.
- [30:28]
Joel
True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co host@airbnb.com host.
- [30:43]
Scott Kai
You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even Start Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code space80@talkspace.com.
- [31:45]
Joel
All right, we're back. We're still talking with Scott. Kai's talking about cheap travel. And Scott, I think you know when people fly irregularly, right? I think you were hinting at this earlier too. With the price of gas. We fill up on gas unless we're electric vehicle owners all the time, like once a week. And so the price of gas is in the forefront of our mind. How do people know if the price they're seeing is a deal, if they should book or if they should wait? Because they're in the Goldilocks window. Hey, this, this looks solid, but I don't know, like, I don't fly to, to Richmond, Virginia on the reg. So I don't even know if that's a good deal.
- [32:20]
Talkspace Ad
You've basically got two options. You can study this stuff, really kind of become an expert and try to really monitor what flights cost on your specific routes and, and how that fluctuates not only month to month, but also with changes in the travel industry. For a lot of people, myself included, that's a, that's their idea of fun. They love getting to into the thick of how airfare behaves and whatnot. For most people, buying flights is the worst part of travel. They hate, you know, it's just a means to an end. They think about the vacation, they think about sipping the cocktails on the beach, not the purchasing the flight over there. And that's like just a dreaded but necessary task there. And so for, for those people, that's where the Going app is, is, is trying to make sure that they're not overpaying. So we like to say, you know, you give us your Home airport. We will let you know when cheap flights pop up from your home airport so you don't have to be monitoring constantly. And for those specific trips you're hoping for, you can set up a price alert and we can help guide you to make sure that you know when the Goldilocks window is, you know, when prices are dropping on that, or when there's a good deal or bad deal. Because, you know, frankly, there's just, just there's too many options to be able to have any confidence if you're not a, an expert in this stuff. You know, there, there's thousands of different routes, airlines constantly changing their prices. I don't begrudge anybody who feels overwhelmed by airfare. That was me 10, 10, 15 years ago, before I became, still have to pinch myself, a professional chief flight expert, but that was me. I felt like every time I would search for flights, it seemed like they were, were so expensive it makes me.
- [34:07]
Matt
Feel like going to the grocery store where like you are just inundated with options and there is no shortage of information out there, especially when it comes to all the different destinations, all the different airlines.
- [34:16]
Talkspace Ad
It's a paradox of choice and it's one that, you know, is. Allow me to nerd out for just a moment. You know, the way that we purchase flights as has undergone these historical transformations. So before call it 2000, the way that you would purchase flights was you would go to an in person travel agent. Agent. I remember going with my parents and sitting down with a travel agent who would help, you know, book the flights for us and hotels and everything else. And then sometime around 2000 people started, instead of doing that, booking their own airfare and hotels and whatnot online. And so you have more choice, you have more autonomy, you don't have to pay the fees of travel agents, but what is expected of you is a sort of level of expertise. You've got this fire hose of millions of airfares and no idea what to do with it. It's like having, you know, an entire novel of War and Peace, but it's all written in Vietnamese, like good luck if you don't actually understand the language. And so that's where that's kind of why we started doing this, to help try to decipher and decode and, and help be a sort of trusted expert for travelers so that they're not feeling like they're alone in this, in this hunt for a good deal.
- [35:32]
Joel
You mentioned kind of antiquated ways of booking travel. And I feel like travel agents are kind of on the comeback. And I also have seen.
- [35:39]
Matt
Is that because they're now just called influencers, maybe. I mean, is that.
- [35:42]
Joel
No. Like you can literally find travel agents who will book your travel for you and. And people are sourcing. I mean, like I have a friend who does this and we talked about a trip I'm taking this summer and I'm like, I don't. Maybe she can help me out here. But what do you think about travel agents? I also saw something. I'm not on TikTok, but someone sent me a TikTok video about going to the airport to book your airfare and how you could potentially save money by going to the physical airport in order to snag your tickets for an upcoming trip. Is that true? I mean those seem like both like kind of wild things. They feel like a relic of the past.
- [36:15]
Talkspace Ad
I'll take the travel agent one first. So what I think is like, what is driving this comeback is, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about the rise in sort of premium travel. People with more money in their bank accounts coming out of the pandemic and more willing to spend it on premium economy, business class, nicer hotels, things like that. And so I think to the extent you see a comeback in travel agencies, it's geared towards a more luxury travel set rather than a sort of mass market travel the way you saw call it pre 2000. They can be beneficial. You can actually get savings for or especially if you've got complex itineraries you're hoping to go places that are really far flung. There can. They can absolutely be beneficial. But I think for most, you know, you're just flying out to Chicago for the weekend. You're going to visit your sister in Fort Lauderdale. I think most. In most of those situations, a travel agent would definitely be overkill for what you can just self service in terms of buying flights at the airport. It is. It's not a myth per se, but without having seen the specific TikTok, I would say it's probably overstated how. How common that is. Okay, so there are a few budget airlines. You know, everybody knows that the big. What's the big drawback with Matt and Joel with. With budget airlines got to pay for everything.
- [37:46]
Joel
Yeah.
- [37:47]
Matt
To get nickeled and died.
- [37:48]
Talkspace Ad
Exactly. It's the fees. You got to look at all. There's so many fees now. One of the. The way that they. Without getting too far into the weeds of the federal tax code. One of the ways that the budget airline, one of the reasons why they do so many of these fees is because they're actually tax advantaged. When there's an optional fee, if there's something that's mandatory, it gets taxed at a higher rate. They have to pay a 7.5% excise tax. But if there's an optional fee, then all of a sudden they don't have to and it gets taxed at a lower rate. So you have, you know, there's this delightful term of a convenience fee that you'll see some budget airlines, I believe Frontier is one of them, they'll sometimes add a convenience fee for booking it online. It's not, it's not like massive. I think it's somewhere on the order of $20. But they will add on this fee for booking online. But in order to make it optional, there has to be a way around it. Now, what's the way around it? If you go book in person at the airport, you know, that's where Frontiers agents are. And so theoretically, you could maybe save, you know, 20 bucks or something on a Frontier ticket if you book your flight at the airport rather than online. But this is not something that is widespread with all airlines. It's something that is basically just a few budget airlines. And it's a. I would say it's closer to a rounding error in terms of the amount than a, than a significant portion of the overall flight.
- [39:26]
Matt
Okay, that makes sense. And it makes sense, too, that it would apply more to the budget airlines who are breaking out those additional fees. Speaking of, and you just mentioned Frontier as well. But I would love to get your thoughts on Southwest. Is this a part of why they carved out that checked bag? Because now it's an optional charge. And if you opt for that now, they don't have to pay tax on that without you being a part of the Southwest board call or anything like that. The earnings report I was. I would love to hear how you think Southwest dropping those free check bags is going to impact their business.
- [39:59]
Talkspace Ad
It definitely makes the decision a little bit easier when, you know, changing the fee structure is going to, right off the bat, give you a 7.5% boost to the bottom line. And we're talking about an airline with billions of dollars in revenue, so many, many millions dollars in savings just right off the bat. That is, I think, a small but not negligible part of why Southw know, the really substantial overhauls. The biggest my issue is like, why do you fly Southwest now?
- [40:34]
Matt
Right?
- [40:34]
Talkspace Ad
Like, who's buying Southwest tickets if there's nothing different about them from American or Delta, United and You know, like, what's the, what's the benefit? There are ways in which they're noticeably worse. They don't have those sort of long haul international flights. They don't have a lot of partnership. Their miles are not nearly as lucrative. Like, there's all sorts of reasons why Southwest is worse than these full service airlines. But now, like, I don't see many benefits, so I don't want to fully predict that it's not going to work. I know their stock price is up. Since announcing the changes. I just, I'm, I'm skeptical. If I had any better ideas though, I would be CEO of rather than just a commentator from the sidelines.
- [41:19]
Joel
Yeah, it's hard to know what their identity is now. And they had an identity, but before that they were able to communicate to customers really, really well.
- [41:27]
Talkspace Ad
Totally.
- [41:27]
Joel
I thought it was fascinating that Frontier kind of clapped back. You were talking about Frontier. They made free bags, bag checks for free for a limited time. Do you think. I think one, do you think that this just shows how much competition there is still in the airline space? And then two, do you think like trolling is going to be the new reality in the discount airline space?
- [41:47]
Talkspace Ad
It's so weird that trolling has become like a legitimate marketing channel these days. But, but, you know, it's, we, we live in a weird time. My sense is that Frontier is sort of feeling its oats right now where you have this budget sector of the airline industry that has been struggling, frankly, coming out of the pandemic. You know, Southwest, we talked about their struggles. Spirit obviously went into bankruptcy after being one of the fastest growing, I think the fastest growing airline in the country over the past 20 years. And so Frontiers looking around and saying, well, maybe we can be the premier budget airline in the US and trying to figure out what is going to be the sort of identity that we want to have going forward. They've tried on a lot of different hats. It's almost like, you know, my kids aren't teenagers yet, but from what I understand about teenagers, remember having been one, you're, you're testing out a bunch of different identities. You know, you have your guide goth phase, you've got your emo phase. Like, you've got your different ones. And I almost feel like Frontier is, is testing out and seeing what, what, what different phase is right for them as they sort of enter adulthood. Because they actually started out not as a budget airline, but as a more premium one. You know, I still, old heads like me remember flying Frontier and their whole shtick was that they would serve you warm chocolate chip cookies on board. It was dope. They were really good. And obviously that's not, you know, the, the joke on Frontier and South and now is like, oh, you got to, you know, they'll charge you for water, they'll charge you for using the bathroom. Not based in truth, but getting to an element of that nickel and diming. But I think Frontier now with Southwest having abandoned this sort of call it nice budget airline, like, like, like a humane and treat you well budget airline. Frontier might be looking saying, well, maybe that could be work for us. Maybe we could kind of enter that space and be both a low fare, but also, also well regarded budget airline. So I, I think of this as them sort of doing a little bit of sampling, testing out and seeing what might work.
- [44:03]
Matt
It'll be interesting to see where they land. I remember, like, I think the four of us flew somewhere. Joel and we flew Frontier and it was nice. The seats were nice. Like it was a newer plane. I was like this, this is not the budget experience that I was expecting.
- [44:15]
Joel
Saved a couple hundred bucks on our airfare too.
- [44:17]
Talkspace Ad
I have a theory that, you know, I. Cause I had a very similar experience a year or two back flying Spirit over to Las Vegas. I have a theory that Frontier Spirit, you know, these airlines that are the butt of late night jokes that they get, get some sort of benefit from people's low expectations. You know, to borrow a phrase, the soft bigotry of low expectations, that everybody comes in thinking, this Spirit fight, this Frontier flight is going to be the worst experience I've ever had traveling. And then when as it is, most of the time it's basically fine. You come out of it being like, that was fine. Yeah, nothing bad happened. There were no brawls on the flight. Like, you know, I made it to my destination fine.
- [44:57]
Matt
They didn't like late night at Waffle House or something like that.
- [45:00]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah, exactly.
- [45:01]
Matt
It's interesting too, man. It makes me wonder if some of these airlines are going to kind of capitalize on the market share that they have now. And then if you continue to amp like step up what it is that you're providing, man, you can take an entire population through just a lifetime of having upgraded. I guess like you start off when you're younger and you're flying maybe, but then with the airline, you're able to increase your budget a little bit. And at the same time they are providing the kind of service that you're will, you're like, okay, great. No reason. Why would I hop why would I go with somebody else?
- [45:33]
Joel
It's like when I'm 18, I'm willing to fly Spirit, but if Spirit moves with me.
- [45:36]
Matt
Yeah, like a, like a, almost like a life cycle sort of airline, as opposed to it sticking with a certain segment of the market and staying pinned to that. But talk about, let's talk about some specific, specific location, Scott, because we haven't you've mentioned some, I guess, anecdotes and places where you've gotten some deals. What other parts of the world do you see are underrated or under visited, just routinely less expensive to visit, like, and we're talking anything from countries to.
- [46:03]
Joel
Specific cities in general.
- [46:04]
Talkspace Ad
One of the things that I think is one of like the best fringe benefits of cheap flights is the way that they let you explore places further down your bucket list. So, so you imagine somebody who pays, you know, they've got maybe a travel budget, a flight budget for a year, $1,500. And if they spend all 1,500 on one flight because they just didn't do best practices to get a good deal, whatever, then where are they going to choose? They're not going to take a risk on somewhere further down their list. They're going to choose somewhere that's kind of a more traditional sort of average tourist favorite. Paris, Tokyo, you know, Australia. Nothing wrong with these places. They're great. But no, you know, you're not the average tourist. You've got your own, your own personalities, your own likes and dislikes. And so the cool thing about being able to split that fifteen hundred dollars up and take, you know, three or four different flights because you got good deals, you know, three or four hundred bucks each to Europe or South America or wherever is that it gives you permission to try places further down your list. And then you can see, you can actually sample them and see which one feel which one you like the best and which one, which ones are kind of forgettable, not going to go back and visit there. And so, you know, for me, the places that I visited that are not the sort of traditional tourist favorites, but have been the, some of my best trips places I've, I've most enjoyed Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean. You know, it's not, it doesn't get hyped the way Bahamas or even like Aruba or, you know, Dominican Republic gets. But man, that's an incredible country. The food there, this blend of like Caribbean and African and Indian cuisines is just incredibly delicious. Very nice going over to Lithuania in Eastern Europe, you know, real east meets West Great. You know, I know you guys are into craft beer. The craft beer culture there was incredible in Vilnius. The architecture, but also super duper affordable. Just another great city. My wife actually recommended it because she was like, I heard everybody is beautiful there. It gets like, wins awards, like some of the most beautiful people in the world. All right, I've heard worse reasons to go visit a country. So let's go.
- [48:28]
Joel
Let's just go, people. Watch.
- [48:30]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah, exactly. We had a great time. Taiwan, another, like, just standout place that doesn't, you know, it's rarely in the sort of like, oh, you got to go to Taiwan before you die type of list, but we've just found it to be totally, totally engaging. The, the like Taroko Gorge. Think of, think of a place like the Grand Canyon, but instead of being like red and dusty, it's like green and lush and you can like ride motor scooters through the base of it and they're like Buddhist temples up in the mountain. Just an incredibly cool place. So it's those place places that I really think of when I'm like, oh, man, why cheap? The way cheap flights have really, I think, benefited by giving permission to test to take a risk on a place. Whereas if you're only taking one or two vacations, it's hard to justify taking a risk. What if you go somewhere and it sucks? You know, what if you're like, oh, well, I just wasted my whole vacation. I can't travel somewhere get now for another year. And you know, whereas if, if you take a risk on somewhere and it doesn't work out, but you only spent a quarter of your travel budget, then you're like, no big deal. I'll be able to go take another trip in a couple months rather than a whole year.
- [49:41]
Joel
I love it. All right, we got a few more questions to get to with you, Scott, including you believe you have a recipe for the perfect vacation. I'm going to hold you to that and figure out what that is. We'll talk about that more right after this.
- [49:56]
Matt
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- [50:11]
Joel
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- [50:36]
Matt
So if you want an all in one banking experience that lets you keep on banking on, sign up today. Learn more@navy federal.org @navy federal, the members are the mission Navy Federal Credit Union insured by NCUA hey there folks. I am Matt.
- [50:51]
Joel
And I'm Joel from the how to Money Show. Matt, it's average April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.
- [50:58]
Matt
Oh, dude. Typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some inspiration. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever. So we're going to try to find something along the coast. Maybe. Maybe some sand to dip my toes into.
- [51:16]
Joel
I like it.
- [51:17]
Matt
But how about you?
- [51:18]
Joel
Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.
- [51:26]
Matt
I know about Helen.
- [51:26]
Joel
Yeah, well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a hot tub, which I'm definitely going to need after running a trail half marathon while I'm up there too.
- [51:34]
Matt
Oh, that is right. I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot tub, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb, earning some extra cash while you are away.
- [51:45]
Joel
True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co host@airbnb.com host.
- [52:00]
Scott Kai
You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at Ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code space80@talkspace.com.
- [53:02]
Matt
We'Re back for the break, talking with Scott Kais. And Scott, let's talk about I guess one aspect of taking flights and flying places, the airport. And if booking the flight is a lot of people's worst part of travel. I feel like the airport, it's gotta be a close second because, because, I mean, come on, it's not a whole lot of fun food choices, crowded, overpriced.
- [53:26]
Joel
And just kind of meh most of the time.
- [53:29]
Matt
Do you have any tips for folks about getting through an airport unscathed? Whether it's like with some of the different services that allow you to pre check or basically cut the line?
- [53:36]
Talkspace Ad
You know, I'm annoyed because my tip used to be get one of the credit cards that gives you a priority pass so you can get into the lounge and be able to really kind of kill time in this much more chill Zen oasis. And then everybody took that tip and so all of a sudden you can't get into the lounges anymore. Their lines out the door.
- [53:53]
Matt
That's not where I want to go.
- [53:55]
Joel
Listen to Scott. And now Scott can't even go to the lounge anymore.
- [53:57]
Talkspace Ad
No, for, for me it's like I'm in that weird subset of people that enjoys being at the airport. I think it's a fun place to be with interesting people to, you know, to people watch and get to see all the airplanes and stuff. So you have to take my advice with a little bit of a grain of salt. But I, what I found is that a lot of, especially if you're traveling like with, with, with kids, there's a lot of airports that have really focused on putting in amenities that most of us don't really realize are necessarily there. So everything from indoor playgrounds and airports to art galleries to, you know, in my home airport of Portland, there's actually a little mini free movie theater. There are all sorts of these things in airports that I think they do a really poor job of actually promoting. But next time you're at an airport I would just go and Google, you know, like. Like that airport and amenities or see what sort of stuff. Just do a quick Google search because it might, you know, you have to walk a few gates down. It might be in a slightly different section of the terminal, but there are a lot of times they're cool stuff that actually helps pass the time. Especially if you're somebody like me who doesn't like airport theory, who likes to actually get to the airport with a reasonable amount of buffer time and not worry about missing my flight.
- [55:12]
Joel
Portland's calling card for a while was the carpet, but they changed the carpet.
- [55:16]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah, so there's a new version of it. It's very polarizing. Which one is better? But yeah, I could go on and on about my love for pdx. Don't get me started.
- [55:28]
Joel
I still remember carpet gate. Oh, man. A lot of consternation over that decision. I want to hear your recipe for the perfect vacation. You made it sound. You've made it sound like there's scientific underpinnings behind what makes a perfect vacation. What is it?
- [55:43]
Talkspace Ad
Yeah. So you think of fun and enjoy something that is just totally unpredictable and serendipitous. Researchers have actually studied this. They've actually, you know, spent a lot of time looking into the way that people enjoy their vacations, and they found a few surprising things. One is that, you know, we think of vacations as something that we only enjoy during the trip itself. When we're on the beach, when we're in that, you know, Parisian cafe. That, that. That just being just those 7, 10, 14 days when we're on a trip is the only joy from it. But when you look at studies, they actually find that people get more joy from a vacation in the weeks and months leading up to the vacation than they do on the trip itself. And they get more joy in the weeks and months and years after a vacation, looking back on it than they did on the trip itself. It's not that we don't enjoy ourselves when we're on vacation. It's just that the anticipation and the sort of memories of a trip are even better. So this is, you know, rather than this, the. The sort of romantic Hollywood idea of showing up at the airport and booking, you know, buying a ticket on the spot. I actually think that most people should be booking their trips way further in advance because what you're doing is giving yourself today much more joy of being able to anticipate that trip, you know, four or five, six months from now, because it's locked in when you book the flight that's the sort of underpinning that, that you trip is happening rather than just something ephemeral or oh, maybe we'll go to Paris in the summer, maybe we'll go to, you know, Hawaii next year or something. If you actually book the flight, it's happening, it's real. So booking your flights further in advance, something I strongly recommend. The other one other thing is there is a, this one researcher looked at like how do we actually enjoy what are the memories of a trip that we find joy from? And what he found is that you get them. What a trip boils down to in the end are the feeling that you have at the peak of your trip, like the peak emotion and especially the feeling that you have at the end of a trip. So he calls it the peak end rule. And one of the ways that he'll take advantage of that and that I've tried to incorporate into my travels as well is to always end on some, something on a high note and put on the last, you know, the last day, the last dinner, some big event, some really fancy dinner. You know, if you're going to splurge, splurge on the last day because that will create a sort of memory and impression of the entire trip that's much more lasting and exciting and continues to pay dividends for years to come from that trip. So those are some of the ways that I like to structure my trips to make sure that I'm getting, I don't, I try not to be too prescriptive about it because it's still vacation, you still want to leave some room for, you know, serendipity, but to, to, to try to make them as, as enjoyable as possible.
- [58:53]
Matt
I think that's, that's smart. Yeah, there's a way to structure it to where you're able to gain the most enjoyment from that trip. Totally, man. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. Of course we'll link to going. Are there anything, is there anything in particular that you want to highlight over there, like any special features or.
- [59:07]
Talkspace Ad
So the biggest thing is the Going trial travel app where we've largely transformed from an email based subscription historically to an app right now on iOS or Android. And the benefits there again those push notifications so when a good deal pops up from your home airport, being able to know about it instantly when those mistake fares pop up, being able to book it before it disappears and being able to set price alerts for those specific trips you're looking at to make sure you know when the price drops and help guide you on when and when not to book those flights.
- [59:42]
Matt
Perfect. Awesome. We will link to all that. Scott, thanks for speaking with us today.
- [59:47]
Talkspace Ad
A pleasure as always. Thanks, you too.
- [59:50]
Joel
All right, Matt, Gotta love good old Scott. Yeah, he's a fount of knowledge.
- [59:54]
Matt
I gotta mention that him and his family are going to Sapporo so we always like, we always end up talking to folks and I so wanted to ask him about Japan and yeah, he's excited to get back there with his family. I try not just in case anybody else was wondering where he was going to go.
- [60:06]
Joel
I try not to ask personal questions of the guests afterwards. Like we're talking about investing. How would you invest my money? Like, you know, I don't ask something like that. But Scott, I did have to ask a particular travel pleasure for our family at least.
- [60:17]
Matt
Yeah. You didn't subjugate all of our listeners hearing, hearing your so specific details.
- [60:23]
Joel
I want to go here on these dates. God. Yeah. No, I don't want to do that.
- [60:26]
Matt
But of course we had a fantastic conversation for everyone. I think there are takeaways for all types of travelers out there. For you. Did you have a specific big takeaway from our conversation?
- [60:35]
Joel
I love that he said pull the trigger when the price.
- [60:37]
Matt
Right. Yeah.
- [60:37]
Joel
And I think that's so smart. I think it's with how quickly price shifts take place in the travel space specifically. I mean it's happening in more and more industries, kind of that dynamic pricing. But when you see a price that seems pretty good and they're like on a site like Google Flights, there are indicators. Right. Telling you, oh, this is like in the green or this is in the yellow or this is in the red. If you see it in the green, like, yeah, there might be a lower price that comes along but I wouldn't bank on that. And so go ahead and get when the gettings go good. Don't necessarily. I think maybe perfect can be the enemy of good in this situation. So, so true. Be ready to book when you see a good deal. Something like a mistake fair or an incredibly ridiculous cheap cheap fare. Matt, even I remember when you and I were booking to go to Scotland and we waited just a little bit of time and I think the prices rose by like 40, 50 bucks a ticket. And we were just like, ah, so annoyed because if we had just booked when we said we were going to, we would have saved money.
- [61:30]
Matt
That's true. All right. I love it. My big takeaway is going to be a more philosophical one which is that by not prioritizing these top of the list bucket list destinations. And this is what he said. It gives you permission to test and take risks when it comes to how it is that you travel. And I think that that is just a great way to think about traveling.
- [61:49]
Joel
Generally speaking, Lithuania and Taiwan were not on my list, and now they are.
- [61:53]
Matt
Yeah, it makes me want to consider some of those secondary cities that are not in countries as well that I would not have otherwise ever considered. The beer, Joel, that you and I enjoyed today was. Is it just called Kolsch? Doesn't have a name on it.
- [62:05]
Joel
I think it's just Kolsch.
- [62:06]
Matt
Kolsch by Altstad. This is a brewery out of Texas. Texas Hill country. This is born in Fredericksburg. What'd you think about this one? Born in Fredericksburg, Texas, immersed in German history.
- [62:19]
Joel
There you go.
- [62:20]
Matt
Of course, this is a German beer.
- [62:21]
Joel
What do they say on the side that they brew this according to German purity laws, which is no more than four ingredients. I liked it. I thought it was clean, crisp, and smooth. And I am normally down for something a little more abrasive than this, but especially as the weather gets hotter, something clean and crisp.
- [62:38]
Matt
That's what you need.
- [62:39]
Joel
It moves up my value meter. I care more about those metrics in a beer these days.
- [62:42]
Matt
Cause you're trying to stay hydrated. That's right. That's what we're gonna recommend here on the podcast.
- [62:45]
Joel
Beer hydrates you folks.
- [62:47]
Matt
But yeah, this is a great one. Glad you and I got to enjoy. You can find our show notes up on the website@howtomoney.com and Buddy, that's gonna be it. So until next time, best friends out. Best Joel. We've all got different tasks in life that we enjoy doing. For me, that would be closing out the books on our family's personal finances every month. Nerd. But then there are some chores that are more of a pain. And for me, that would be grocery shopping, something I try and avoid if at all possible.
- [63:27]
Joel
Well, that's where Walmart steps in. Because their subscription subscriptions help you to stay stocked on the items you use most, whether that's milk and eggs or kitty litter and cleaning supplies. Find everything you need for your home at Walmart, in stores, online, and in the app.
- [63:42]
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- [64:44]
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Scott Kai
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