The Understated Power of Stealth Wealth #1158 (Bestie Ep)

Summary

How to Money – "The Understated Power of Stealth Wealth" (#1158, June 26, 2026)

Hosts: Joel & Matt
Theme: The remarkable advantages of “stealth wealth”—quietly achieving financial security and independence while resisting the urge to publicly display wealth or conform to social expectations of success.

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Episode Overview

In this “Bestie Ep,” Joel and Matt dive into the philosophy and practicality of stealth wealth: building real, substantial wealth while staying “under the radar.” They emphasize intentional spending, resisting lifestyle inflation, and prioritizing financial freedom over outward displays of affluence. Drawing from classics like The Millionaire Next Door, new research on money and happiness, and personal anecdotes, they highlight actionable steps to cultivate stealth wealth—and why it’s a goal worth chasing for anyone wanting a “rich life” rooted in autonomy and true happiness.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What is Stealth Wealth? (08:24–12:33)

• Definition: Living well below your means, accumulating financial resources, and avoiding the pursuit of outward, flashy status symbols.
• Origins: Popularized by The Millionaire Next Door (Thomas Stanley, 1996) — most millionaires live in ordinary neighborhoods, drive average cars, and spend less on visible luxury.
• Core Principle: “They care more about having wealth than flaunting it.” — Joel (12:01)
• Analogy: The “Clark Kent/Superman” metaphor—projecting a humble exterior while quietly having transformative financial strength.

2. Why Pursue Stealth Wealth? (16:24–20:11)

• Happiness Link: Cites new research showing that happiness does rise with wealth, especially for those who don’t “display” their riches or tie identity to their spending.
• Intrinsic Value: The joy is in the challenge: “The fun is built into the struggle. And when you remove that struggle, there’s kind of no joy left to be had.” — Matt (19:44)
• Security: Stealth wealth practitioners build “mental freedom,” weathering life’s surprises (job loss, market downturns) with less anxiety.

3. The Culture Clash (26:41–29:20)

• “Keeping Up With the Joneses”: Disentangling happiness from others’ perceptions is foundational—and difficult. Matt points out, “Our whole economy is based around consumerism in so many ways. It’s a river we’re all flowing in.” (28:41)
• Self-Awareness: Social pressures and psychology influence everyone, regardless of income or personality, but resisting the current pays off.
• Analogy: Building a beaver dam to redirect your path—not stopping the river, just redirecting your “stream” of spending and values.

4. Stealth Wealth & Relationships (31:21–36:40)

• Pressure Reduction: “When you look rich, people hit you up for money; when you look average, relationships are more straightforward.” — Matt (31:33)
• Social Authenticity: By keeping wealth quiet, you foster genuine connection and avoid suspicion about motives (yours or others').
• Philanthropy: Stealth wealth isn’t about hoarding; it often enables more, strategic giving (e.g., through donor-advised funds like Daffy.org).

5. Practical Steps Toward Stealth Wealth (39:18–52:53)

Divided into psychological reframing and nuts-and-bolts tactics:

A. Introspection & Alignment

• Start with a Money Mission Statement: Identify what truly brings you joy (not what society says should make you happy)
• Craft Beer Equivalents: Prioritize spending on a few “outsized joy” items (e.g. folk art for Joel, landscaping for Matt) and cut ruthlessly elsewhere.
• “If you want to live a stealth wealth kind of life, you’re going to need to make some changes. And the first step is to do some digging and some dissecting about your current relationship with money.” — Matt (39:53)

B. Managing Big Expenses

• “Drive an older car, don’t allocate too much of your income towards living in a fancy house.” — Joel (45:38)
• Choosing a $400k house over a $600k house unlocks massive financial flexibility.

C. Guarding Against Lifestyle Creep

• As income rises, resist the urge to raise expenses accordingly—direct raises to investments/savings instead (47:39).

D. Community & Influence

• Social Circles: “Hang out with folks who share your values... The herd mentality can propel you in the right direction.” — Joel (49:02)
• Open, Not Ostentatious: Encourage transparency about financial strategies and struggles without revealing all your numbers or bragging.

E. Invest & Grow Wealth Quietly

• Funnel savings into index funds, IRAs, or real estate—let compounding work quietly (51:29).
• Redefinition of success: less about the visible trappings, more about real autonomy and opportunity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the struggle and meaning:
  "The thing that is least perceived about wealth is that all pleasure in money ends at the point where economy becomes unnecessary... The man who can buy anything, he covets, values nothing that he buys."
  — William Dawson, quoted by Joel (17:47)

• On social comparison:
  "The ability to not care what other people think of you is going to give you a massive advantage when it comes to getting ahead and meeting your financial goals." — Joel (25:09)

• On mental freedom:
  “Debt can make you dumber... My guess is that folks who fall into that stealth wealth camp would get a bit of an IQ boost. It’s not that having more money literally makes you smarter necessarily, but the mental freedom that it affords you... can be like a weight lifted.” — Joel (30:09)

• On relationships and wealth:
  "When you flash wealth, you get hit up for loans or donations. It's kind of like owning a pickup—everyone wants to use it." — Matt (31:33)

• On redefining success:
  "Stealth wealth leans into a different definition of success, and it largely casts aside the current cultural view of it." — Joel (52:54)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:39: Episode theme introduction: What is stealth wealth?
• 08:24: Clark Kent and the psychology of hiding your power
• 11:46: The Prada paperclip, luxury signals, and what real millionaires buy
• 16:24: Money & happiness research; the diminishing returns myth revisited
• 17:47: William Dawson quote on pleasure, scarcity, and appreciation
• 21:13: Who can/should pursue stealth wealth?
• 26:41: The “Joneses” and cultural counter-currents
• 31:33: Stealth wealth and relationships, avoiding being targeted
• 36:16: Donor advised funds, giving quietly and efficiently
• 39:18: How to do the “deep work” of aligning your spending and values
• 45:38: Prioritizing big wins: housing and cars
• 47:39: Lifestyle creep, social media, and resisting targeted advertising
• 49:02: Curating your social circle for stealth wealth support
• 51:29: Wealth-building basics: investing and compounding
• 52:54: Defining success on your own terms

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Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, sometimes playful (“let's talk about beer and stealth bombers!”), always supportive, practical, and skeptical of mainstream cultural definitions of status and success. The hosts blend their real-life friendship, gentle banter, and actionable financial advice to make serious concepts accessible.

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Additional Notes

• Beer Review: The hosts sample and review "Traditional Copper" (an alt beer from Old Mecklenburg Brewery); classic malty brown style, reminiscent of early craft beer days (54:08–55:55).
• Listener Resources: Link to their Money Mission Statement worksheet, How to Money Facebook group, and info on donor-advised funds (e.g., Daffy).

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Summary Takeaway

"Stealth wealth" means living well below your means, intentionally choosing what matters (and what doesn't), prioritizing relationships and freedom over applause and status symbols. Anyone—even high earners currently living paycheck-to-paycheck—can benefit from adopting stealth wealth principles. It offers not just financial security, but mental clarity, more honest relationships, and a path to living one’s own definition of a “rich life.”

Or, as they put it:

“There’s more power in driving the Honda but being able to afford the Rivian, than there is in buying the Rivian.” — Joel (34:29)

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(Episode content summarized per provided transcript. Ads and non-content segments omitted.)

Transcript

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

And I am Matt.

[Joel]

And today we're talking about the understated power of stealth. We.

[Matt]

We're talking about that stealthy. Stealthy wealth. Which reminds. Did you ever watch Mr.

[Event Promoter]

Deeds?

[Matt]

This is an Adam Sandler movie back in the 90s.

[Joel]

Long time ago. It's been a long time.

[Matt]

Do you remember the his servant? I forget his name, but I am John.

[Joel]

John Turturro. Was. Yeah.

[Matt]

I am very, very sneaky, sir. That's what I think of when I hear stealth wealth. I think of that sneaky wealth. That wealth that sneaks up on you that folks aren't even aware of.

[Joel]

You know what it makes me think of the, like, stealth bomber back in the day. Remember when that came out also, as

[Matt]

a kid, was huge in the 90s.

[Joel]

I was like, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[Matt]

How does that thing actually fly?

[Joel]

And it's so stealthy. How does it do what it's supposed to do? But, yeah, that's kind of what we're going to talk about. When it comes to money. We want you to be sneaky. We want you to be stealthy. And, like, there's a whole lot of reasons for it. Like, what is stealth wealth? We'll discuss that in this episode. But also kind of like, how do you head in this direction too?

[Matt]

That's right, man. So, okay, I've got a question for you. I was faced with a conundrum the other night. So lately I've been kind of going down the path of thinking through different purchases I make within the framework of buying quality over quantity.

[Sleep Apnea Awareness Voice]

Right.

[Matt]

This is something we talked about in episode 626.

[Joel]

I feel like we've talked about this a decent amount recently.

[Matt]

Yeah. But lately I've kind of been exploring. This is gonna sound kind of silly, but nicer shirts. Specifically merino wool shirts.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

And basically so the reason I've been looking into this. We're getting ready for our Scotland trip. You and I and our wives are all going to Scot. And I've learned that merino wool is like the fabric of choice for travelers. Maybe a lot of other people already know this, but I did not know this.

[Joel]

It Was nice and soft, right?

[Matt]

Well, it's soft, but it's also, it's great from like a temperature regulation standpoint. But specifically it is. It doesn't get stinky. Like, I don't know how. It's like, it's magic.

[Joel]

Your fellow travelers will appreciate this, Matt.

[Matt]

Absolutely. And I got one and I actually put it to the test a couple weeks ago. I don't know if you remembered, but I wore the same T shirt for. Oh, I remember, for a week. You told me for a week straight. And I was making you sniff this shir because I was like, dude, you can't smell anything on these things.

[Joel]

It's getting weird up here. And had a money hq sometimes I

[Matt]

even, I wore it like on a run, even like in the middle of that period of time. And even still by the end of seven days, it was not stinky. Anyway. All that to say that merino wool shirts are really freaking expensive, though. And so that's the predicament I'm in. I'd love to maybe get a couple more or maybe even just one more, but they're like, from the better companies out there. You're talking like 70 or 80 bucks for a single shirt. So I hopped on ebay and I was looking around and I came across this retailer that I guarantee nobody's ever heard of. Honestly, I think they're. It's like a direct from Asia kind of company where like stuff's getting shipped directly to this warehouse out in California. But the prices were incredible. I'm talking like $30 for a 100% merino wool shirt, which is a screaming deal compared to like 80 bucks. But the reviews were a little iffy on it and I wasn't totally sure if it would. If it would pan out. But what would you have done in this situation? Because on one hand I was torn because I was like, oh, this is the absolute lowest price I've ever seen on a merino wool shirt. But I also didn't want to get stuck with something that I wasn't going to love.

[Joel]

Okay, what's the return policy? I guess that'd be my next question.

[Matt]

Great question. They had a return policy, but you had to pay for shipping. So that's what makes it tough.

[Brain Health Advocate]

Right?

[Joel]

Because it's six bucks to send it back.

[Matt]

It was free returns, no brainer. Get it, try it out. If you don't like it, send them back. And if they didn't have a return policy that was also a no brainer, I wouldn't do it at all. But this falls like right on the fence. And that's where we like to live, right, Joel? We like to live in that in between zone.

[Joel]

Well, every once in a while, as someone who's trying to be frugal, you do get burned and you do your best. And so I think this is one of those though where if it's that much more of a deal and if there are enough reviews to substantiate the quality of the items they sell, then I would be like, I'll give it a shot. Worst thing that happens, I'm out six bucks. But best thing that happens, I say 50 bucks on the shirt I'm looking to get. That's how I would think of it.

[Matt]

Well, the reviews talked about how the it had like a weird sizing and the fit was kind of odd. So ultimately I decided not to do it and instead I was like, all right, maybe I'll just watch out for some like bigger sales from some of the nicer companies.

[Joel]

Or maybe yeah, you can wait and look around and see if there's something in between. Instead of the $80 shirt, is there something that's like $40.50?

[Matt]

I don't know. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, like, so I got an icebreaker shirt that's like one of the better companies or whatever. But REI co op, they make really good 100% merino wool shirts and they go on sale as well, evidently, like in the 40s or $50 range sometime.

[Joel]

My sister in law works at RDI so I can maybe ask her about.

[Matt]

I didn't know that.

[Joel]

Yeah, I don't know. Recently. It was recently. I think she got that job. So.

[Matt]

Oh man.

[Joel]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I can get

[Matt]

this and those digits over. I'm going to start pestering her.

[Joel]

Yeah, she'll hate you pretty soon. Pretty soon. But yeah, I don't know. Good luck with your.

[Matt]

Thanks man. Continued Marina Woolsearch Curious to get your thoughts on that.

[Joel]

But yeah, those are always tough decisions. Is trying to be an informed consumer buying the right things at the right price. It's not always easy, but yeah. Well, let's talk about stealth. We but first let's mention the beer that we're having on this episode. This one is called Traditional Copper. It's an alt beer and it's by the old Mecklenburg Brewery. Your father in law gave us this beer to have on the show, right?

[Matt]

Yep, that's right. Thanks, Greg. I think this is, it's called Copper and it's a traditional alt Beer.

[Joel]

Oh, okay.

[Matt]

So I think copper's the name of

[Joel]

it, but it's hard to tell the

[Matt]

way they on the label. But yeah, looking forward to enjoying this one. We'll share our thoughts on it at the end of the episode for sure.

[Joel]

But for now, let's get on to stealth wealth and Matt. This made me think about Clark Kent, who has a nerdy newspaper job.

[Matt]

He's a sneaky, sneaky guy.

[Joel]

He's got the thick glasses, certainly doesn't look cool in the traditional sense of the word. And I don't know if people still use the term square, but if they do, that's what they call Clark Kent, right? And like that's what he is. But when you pull back the white button up on that dude, he's a beast, right? He becomes Superman. And kids all over the world and lots of adults are obsessed with that dude because he can fly, he can kick, basically anyone's. But there's only one thing that can stop him, and it's this green shiny rock, right? And he's saving the world from evil villains on a regular basis. But Clark Kent doesn't need everyone to know what he's capable of. Like, he doesn't mind people thinking that he's a complete nerd.

[Matt]

He's the boring old reporter, right?

[Joel]

He doesn't mind that being the general conception of him. And so I think when you don't feel the need to signal to others what you're capable of, there's a whole lot of power in that from an individual standpoint.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Voice]

But.

[Joel]

And when we're talking about overall financial well being, so that's what we're talking about today. We want you to be the financial version of Clark Kent. To have some Superman underneath the clothes, but to not be like showing it off to everybody all the time.

[Matt]

Totally, man. Yeah. And the fact is those outward signals are oftentimes more of a distraction than anything else, right? Like, they can oftentimes actually prevent you from being able to sustain that lifestyle. You might be able to achieve it momentarily, but sustaining it is a whole other, whole other question. And you know, one of the problems that we're addressing today, like everybody out there for the most part wants to be wealthy, but they don't want to be like, quote unquote, that guy, right? Like, they don't want to be the jerk and the Audi that cut you off, like on the way to work. They, they don't want to be the folks on social media living it up at the club. They want to be wealthier. But they don't want to like, essentially lose their soul in the process. And the term stealth wealth is a helpful way to think about what's worth striving for. Right. Like this is the solution to finding that balance between being wealthy but being a decent human being. So today we're going to talk about why stealth wealth is such a great goal to aim for and you know, what it looks like to actually achieve it.

[Joel]

Yeah. So let's talk about what it is. Let's define terms a little bit here. And you and I were talking about this before we started. It's kind of a hard word or term to define. Like it's not financial independence, but if you're going to stealth wealth route, it's going to get you to financial independence. So it's kind of a way of living as you're kind of looking to achieve more and more financial independence in your life. And it's a way of living that we think makes a lot of sense. And it actually has its roots back in the book the Millionaire Next Door. Thomas Stanley wrote this classic back in 1996, I believe, and it was a study of millionaires. And it came with some striking findings that most of us don't assume when we think about wealth accumulation. It showed really that millionaires are disproportionately clustered in middle class and blue collar neighborhoods, not in the most affluent neighborhoods, which is kind of counterintuitive to how most of us think about the wealthy among us. We sure, we assume that they're living in the McMansions, but no, not necessarily. They're more likely to devote their money towards saving and investing than buying luxury goods. Makes me think about. Recently we talked on the show and we had an Instagram post about Prada selling paperclips. And you can get a $495 papercl from Prada or you can get like

[Matt]

a Gucci dog bowl.

[Joel]

A Gucci dog bowl that was almost $2,000. And you can show off your wealth like that. You can flaunt it, you can buy.

[Matt]

They should call that thing the poochie.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And you're getting poached when you buy that bowl.

[Matt]

Poached by the Gucci poochie.

[Joel]

It's pretty ridiculous. Those are the kind of things, though, that people, often the wealthiest people are not buying those goods. They're not buying the luxury paperclips, which I did not even know was a thing. Honestly shocked to see that. But they're also not buying luxury cars either. Like these millionaires driving Mazdas. Not Mercedes, they care more about having wealth than flaunting it. And that's just. That's like the most important thing to know about people who are pursuing stealth wealth.

[Matt]

It's.

[Joel]

It's the people who actually want to be wealthy. They want to have the money backing up a lifestyle that doesn't necessarily look ostentatious or showy.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I mean, the truth is that it's just hard to see how much wealth someone has in their everyday life. It truly is something that is kind of secret. It's easy to see what folks around you are spending, whether that be on vacations or clothes, fancy cars, nice homes, big houses, that kind of thing. It's just hard to see though, what they're saving and what they're investing and how much to what extent that they're doing that.

[Joel]

It's not worn on the sleeve nearly to the same degree as the stuff that we buy.

[Matt]

Yeah. So stealth wealth practitioners approach their lives in a countercultural way. And I feel like in this way it can kind of be. It can pay perhaps to be a little hard headed and not care what other people think. But it makes me think of this quote and this is from Edwin Way Teal, and it goes, reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life. And the labors of life reduce themselves. I love that man. I think oftentimes folks might think, well, I don't want to be a minimalist. And you can read that quote and think, well, this is a quote in favor of minimalism. But I don't think that's the case. You don't have to go that extreme. It doesn't have to be black or white. You can instead choose a life of intentionality in all areas, including your spending,

[Joel]

even when it comes to those merino wool shirts that you want. Right. You can still, like, I think, intelligently shop, look for and buy new things. And some of our friends would beg to differ or would live life a little differently, like our friend Katie Wilk Stanley.

[Matt]

But she would probably most definitely find her merino wool shirts at the Goodwill.

[Joel]

Right. Which more power to her. That's why we wanted to talk to her.

[Matt]

I hadn't done that yet, but I need to go looking.

[Joel]

But she's inspirational in that regard, I think.

[Matt]

Here's the thing though. When you get yourself a merino wool shirt, Joel, you're never getting rid of it because you're gonna love it that much.

[Sleep Apnea Awareness Voice]

Right.

[Joel]

So maybe there's none to be had.

[Matt]

I'm trying to convert people on the used market.

[Joel]

But I think that's what makes her so inspiring is that lives her life with a really particular bent and it's pretty extreme given kind of today's modern standards and how consumeristic we tend to be. But I think there's a lot to love in the way that she does this. But I think you're right, like reducing the complexity, eliminating the needless wants of life, that doesn't necessarily have to mean living buying into hook, line and sinker, the non consumer advocate mentality or you know, buying into a full on minimalist lifestyle. Not that we're against those. More power to you if that's what you want to do. But we don't necessarily partake to that degree. But you might be thinking what's the point of being wealthy without being able to buy the things and the experiences that having more money affords? That's a good question because you might be saying my goal of saving and investing more is so that I can buy that beach house or afford that fancy Rolex. And you know, we're not here to tell you what you should spend your money on. We're not here to tell you that you need to join the minimalist movement. And if you're into fancy watches or something like that, that's fine with us. And if you buy the right one, actually it might even go up in value over time. But that's beside the point. But like the millionaire next door taught us, the problem is if you're spending tomorrow's cash today, that's where the root of the problem exists. And it's really hard to out earn your spending if your spending is insatiable. And so yeah, stealth wealth is basically buying into the notion that actually being rich trumps public displays of wealth. Makes me think of an article I wrote, I don't know, a year or so ago on our website, Mad about buying a new car and how it's not that we're 100% against owning a new car in any way, form or fashion, that nobody should ever do it. But I outlined a few circumstances when it makes sense. And it's just that most people don't meet those parameters. And a lot of people end up buying a new car when they can't actually afford it and they stretch out payments and they really hamstring their overall financial progress because they're opting to buy something that makes them look better to the world around them from a consumeristic standpoint, from a possession standpoint, and really what they're doing is hurting their own ability to Achieve stealth wealth and really reach financial independence.

[Matt]

That's right. Yeah. So let's talk about how this fits with some recent studies that show that more money, how it actually equals greater levels of happiness. There's some old research out there that we've even referenced here on the show before. We've had guests on the show before and they've written books. The large portions of their books were even kind of based on this fact that happiness kind of plateaued after reaching around $75,000 a year in salary. In reality, that's probably closer to $100,000 now given inflation. But new research by the same folks show, with a more comprehensive study is showing that happiness levels actually continue to climb even in high ranges of income, all the way up to like over $200,000. Although this isn't the case for everyone, there's still this unhappy minority of that group whose happiness diminished as their income rose. But the relationship between money and happiness is to figure out. But my guess is that the happiest people of all are likely the ones out there who are living the stealth wealth lifestyle. It's the folks who end up making a higher income. Yes, but they don't necessarily live like it. They're not. They're not living. They're not showing, they're not displaying their wealth on their sleeve. And oftentimes it's because they have asked these harder questions. They. And we're going to get to all this. Right. But like, they are questioning the things culture is telling them is going to make them happy and instead are out there blazing their own path.

[Joel]

Yeah. All right, let me share another quote here because you shared a good one, but this one's a touch longer. But I swear I told my wife when I read it, this one just like slapped me sideways. I was like, this is just. This is brilliant. And it's become one of my favorite money quotes. And here's how. It's from the book called the Quest of the Simple Life by William Dawson. He says the thing that is least perceived about wealth is that all pleasure in money ends at the point where economy becomes unnecessary. The man who can buy anything, he covets, values nothing that he buys. There is subtle pleasure in the extravagance that contests with prudence, in the anxious debates which we hold with ourselves whether we can or cannot afford a certain thing, in our attempts to justify our wisdom, in the risk and recklessness of our operations, in the long deferred and final joy of our possession. But this is a kind of pleasure which the man of Boundless means never knows. And I think even if you have, you're kind of referring to that happiness study and how the people who make more money, well, they're probably happier if they're living that stealthy wealthy lifestyle. I think it's probably because you're fighting back against some of that consumerism. And if you give in to all your wants and desires and you buy all of the things that you can possibly afford, you end up finding that there's not as much joy at the end of that spending spree as you hoped.

[Matt]

I think it shows that just having an unlimited amount of funds isn't going to make you any happier. Honestly hearing that, it makes me think of. We're doing a lot of 90s nostalgia, Mr. Deeds, the stealth Bomber. It also makes me think of so playing Nintendo. I remember going to the grocery store and there was this magazine that you could get, and I'm pretty sure it was called Nintendo Power. And the reason you got Nintendo Power was to look up the cheat codes because you could flip to whatever game that they're highlighting, look up the movement to do on the keypad before, once it was in the start screen or whatever, and it would give you 99 lives or something like that, right? Or it would give, like it would put you in God mode to where you just couldn't die, which makes it

[Joel]

really fun for a second.

[Matt]

For a second. But it just sucks all the joy out of it. And I think that's what this quote is saying, like that the fun is built into the struggle. And when you remove that struggle, there's kind of no joy left to be had. And essentially that's what we're doing today. Like we're pointing out the fact that by adding some barriers, some constraints or some guardrails, like that in and of itself is sort of where the, like, I guess the joy comes from when it comes to the how it is that we appreciate the things that we purchase.

[Joel]

I think everything you buy when you take this mentality means more than if you are spending willy nilly. And not only that, but it adds more kind of mental freedom because you're not nearly as worried about your money either because you've kind of put yourself on a path to where something out of your control impacts you negatively, whether it's a job loss or whether it's a market downturn, something like that, where that, that just doesn't affect you in nearly the same way because you've insulated yourself in so many ways from some of those, the harshest things. That can happen. And people who are not taking the stealth wealth approach often find themselves like a small boat out at sea, tossed to and fro by the big waves. But yeah, we're less likely to be tossed to and fro if we're taking that stealth wealth mindset. And so yeah, who should be taking this? What are the pros of stealth wealth? And then how do you actually go about achieving it? What do you need to implement in your life to make sure that it becomes a reality for you? We'll talk all about that and more right after this.

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Malcolm Glebel]

hello. Hello, this is Malcolm Glebel from Smart Talks with IBM. Today. We're diving into a fascinating conversation which with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Stefano Pallard]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age.

[Stefano Pallard]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Stefano Pallard]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com ferrari.

[Matt]

All right, man, let's get back to talking about stealth wealth. And we're going to talk about, I guess, some of the reasons you should consider stealth wealth. But first, let's quickly mention who should be considering taking more of a stealth wealth approach with their money. Because many folks who could be striving in this direction are oftentimes just finding themselves living paycheck to paycheck. Here's a startling statistic for folks. 51% of people who earn more than $100,000 a year are living paycheck to paycheck. And there's a lot of excuses out there like, sure, inflation has been a beast recently, but while folks who are living the stealth wealth lifestyle, they might not have quite as high of a savings rate this year, they're still prioritizing their savings. They're still making a point to invest their money even while everything around them is getting more expensive. And so I think the stat just demonstrates that it's not always a lack of income that's preventing people from pursuing stealth wealth in their own lives. And it's just an argument basically that more folks could benefit from trying to implement some of these stealth wealth principles within their own lives.

[Joel]

Yeah. It's not that some people in certain income ranges and certain stages of their career aren't going to find it more difficult to to save. But I think that stat shows that there are a lot of people who could be taking this approach and they're not. Right. And then there's a lot of folks

[Matt]

who could benefit from it. A lot of folks, I think, need to reassess their spending because oftentimes the reason you are living paycheck to paycheck is because you're spending your money on some dumb stuff.

[Joel]

Yeah. And it's easy to blame it on the price of eggs. But there are other things that we're doing to sabotage our own finances. Again, I think there are some things right now conspiring against us and pay rates aren't quite keeping up with the rate of inflation. Those things are worth document. It doesn't mean, especially when you're talking about people in the six figure salary range, that those people, there's nothing they can do. Right. To kind of proceed more in the stealth wealth direction. So let's talk to you about what you gain when you take the stealth wealth mindset when you take that approach to your finances. Because you might think that we're harping a bit much on the deprivation front. And ultimately we're working Towards a sense of financial freedom. That's our goal for ourselves. That's our goal for you. And keeping up with the Joneses has become so cliche at this point. I hesitate to bring it up, Matt, for that reason, because people are like, okay, heard it, boring. But there's just a reason that the phrase gets referenced so often in the personal finance space. Like the ability to not care what other people think of you is going to give you a massive advantage when it comes to getting ahead and meeting your financial goals. That just has to be mentioned and it has to be discussed if you want to live a stealth wealth mindset, if you kind of want to take that approach. I think, you know, the more beholden we are to what others think of us, the more we aim to fit in, the more likely we are to live in a way that doesn't satisfy us on an individual level. We're trying to impress other people and the more likely we are to make purchases then for what we think they signal to others rather than buying things and experiences that maximize our own joy. That is a massive problem. I think it's part of the root of why so many people don't adopt the stealth wealth approach. They're living life in so many ways on other people's terms. That's true.

[Matt]

Yeah. So I don't think there's any way that we're going to get through talking. Through explaining talking about stealth wealth without mentioning the proverbial Joneses is definitely true. But I wanted to point out, man, I think it's easier said than done because of the fact that we're social animals. I think it can be difficult to say, like, I don't care what so and so thinks. I don't care what you think. And so depending on you as an individual, your psychological makeup, whether you tend to be more agreeable or disagreeable, you might be more innately inclined to rebel against the status status quo.

[Joel]

So just from a psychological makeup standpoint, I would say I fall into the more agreeable of that category and you fall into more disagreeable.

[Matt]

And I, I love disagreeable.

[Joel]

And it's not because you're a jerk or anything like that. I'm.

[Matt]

It just I can be at that time.

[Joel]

Not really, though. Not most of the time, no. But I think I appreciate that. It's one of those things that allows you just innately from, From a human perspective, you're less inclined to bow to social pressure and you are more likely to march to the Euro drummer. And for me, it's taken more intentionality to kind of push back against that mentality because like I am more agreeable. Like that is kind of my tendency and it's, it's not innate for me to, to buck all of the modern trends and completely go it alone and live in my own life.

[Matt]

Well, before the break I kind of mentioned being like hard headed and I think that's how my parents would have described me as a kid. But like I'll say our attempts to keep up with the folks around us like that often precludes us from amassing a decent chunk of wealth. Right. And that that wealth is going to be able to then afford us more life changing options. So it truly does have a cost. And it's one thing to be aware that this is something that I think to a certain extent that we all need to work on. But I think it can be so helpful to see the cost of that. And I think a big part of the reason that so many folks, even ones out there with solid incomes fail to get this point is because it's just so dang easy to spend your money like everyone else's spending their money around us.

[Joel]

All right. Makes me think of a river.

[Matt]

I can see it in my mind.

[Joel]

Well, everything is pushing on us to be these people who spend willy nilly. Our whole economy is based around consumerism in so many ways. So many people's jobs are based around selling products to one another. And some of that is good and some of that is bad. But it's this river that's flowing in one direction and it's trying to funnel us all down in that same direction. I think of kind of stealth wealth as a beaver building a dam to say not today. Like I'm going to block at least a meaningful path. I'm going to put a meaningful path in this way.

[Matt]

The river will still flow, but it's going to look a lot different than you want it to look.

[Joel]

At least where I'm at. At least where I'm hanging out. Exactly. So I don't know if that's a great analogy, but it's something, right? And it's you taking a proactive measure to, even in the midst of forces that are out of your control, trying to push you in a certain direction.

[Matt]

Well, I think it, no, I think it's a great analogy because it points, it demonstrates that the forces never, and I don't think they truly ever will. That is just the culture and society. That is how the economic capitalist engine runs in our country. It will always be present. But what are the Things. What are the steps that we're taking in order to, like you said, fight that in our own little personal section of the river?

[Joel]

Yeah, I think something else that if we adopt the stealth wealth approach that it's going to get us, it's going to get us less stress in our lives. And folks who opt for stealth wealth, they're keeping their money in banks or better yet, their favorite low cost brokerage firms. And that's because they value the freedom that money in the bank can buy them. We talked about the importance of peace out money before on the show and how it puts you in a position of strength. But not only does stealth wealth get you closer to becoming financially independent, it's also reducing kind of the pain points and levels of stress in your life on a day to day basis, which is incredibly meaningful. We've talked in the past, Matt, about how debt can make you dumber. Literally lopping off something like 10 to 12 points from your IQ. Some of the studies have shown and I haven't seen any studies on stealth wealth, but my guess is that folks who fall into that stealth wealth camp would get a bit of an IQ boost. Right? So instead of just leveling up 10 points because they don't have any debt, well, what if they have like a meaningful amount of financial margin and they're working towards financial independence? I'm guessing that they almost get like five points on the upside or something like that. And it's not that having more money literally makes you smarter necessarily, but the mental freedom that it affords you, the lack of having to focus on money so intently day in and day out can be like a weight lifted off your shoulders, I think.

[Matt]

Totally agree, man.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So, you know, the best reasons, the most important pros or advantages to implementing stealth wealth in your life are going to be mostly personal and internal. It's mostly going to be like you as that beaver on that little part

[Joel]

of the river there.

[Matt]

But there are some external reasons that are worth mentioning and these are some ways that we think having stealth wealth will improve your relationships. And I think this is going to be a weird point to make.

[Joel]

I'm used to it for me.

[Matt]

But because you do look rich, I think oftentimes what that's going to mean is that people will then not ask you for money. Now bear with me for a second, right? It's kind of like having like a pickup truck. If you've got one. Folks are going to ask to borrow the truck. I feel like it's inevitable.

[Joel]

I've heard it from Every friend that I have who owns a truck, they're like, it happens when my friends are moving, they always ask to borrow it.

[Matt]

So basically, the more you show off your treasure trove of wealth to the world, the more you're going to get hit up for a loan or for donations. I just think that there can be an awkwardness that comes to relationships and conversations when there is a large sum of money not at stake, but when they know that there's a large amount of wealth involved. It can be, I think, tough to sometimes know the motives of individuals. Like, for instance, like, imagine you got a friend and you know that, oh, man, you just sold that tech company you started 10 years ago and you just, you sold that thing for 15 million. It changes things a little bit. So not only if we're on the

[Joel]

same vacation schedule anymore, man, because you might be going to fancier places than I can afford.

[Matt]

And so, like, I guess I'm putting myself in the camp of, like, I don't know how I would respond. Like, it would be difficult to even know my own motives.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

Because I might say, well, no, like, I like her because she's, she's really cool or she's funny, but also you just found out she's worth 4 million. Or it's like, oh, I like that guy because we've got a lot in common. We're gonna be buddies. It can be difficult to know your own motives, I think, to a certain extent. So I don't know, I just wanted to bring that up because I think by living more of that stealth wealth lifestyle, when you form relationships, hopefully they're based on just like a shared interest as opposed to the fact that you've got some money and they're like, hoping

[Joel]

you're gonna be the one who buys lunch and dinner.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. I just think it can keep relationships honest both ways, regardless of which end of that conversation you're on.

[Joel]

Completely agree. And I don't know if that's like a pessimistic view of human nature. I think it's just more like a realistic one.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think it's realistic.

[Joel]

It's hard for us to know how we're going to react to other people when kind of circumstances change. And it makes me, I think there's more power in driving the Honda, but being able to afford the Rivian than there is in buying the Rivian. Right. And that, that's being said as someone who really would like someday to own a Rivian, but maybe when it's older and more normalized, and people aren't like, gawking at my $85,000 truck. Right. But just think if you're the kind of person who has the financial means to do that, but you put it off and you, you, you retain that financial power instead of like, putting it into play in this world and losing it because you now own an item that's quickly depreciating.

[Matt]

Yeah. And it's less likely going to have an impact on your relationships as well, where it's just like, hey, you want to go for a ride in my new. What's it called? What's the SUV?

[Joel]

Rivian. Oh, the R1s, maybe.

[Matt]

That's the one I like.

[Joel]

They're beautiful. They're awesome. And like, when I can get 16 years old, like, hopefully I will. Well, and let's clarify too, what we're talking about, because it's not to say that folks are looking to come over to your house and intentionally slip so they can sue you. Right. Because, hey, you just sold that tech company for 15 mil. Yeah.

[Matt]

Let me, like, hopefully folks aren't targeting you to that degree.

[Joel]

Let me break my tailbone. Just like, test the limits and make you hire legal help or something like that. But look at what happens when people win the lottery. I mean, this is well documented. Friends, relatives, like, they can't help but look at you differently and vice versa. I think you look at them differently. You're like, are they going to come hit me up for money now that I'm low noted?

[Podcast Announcer]

Probably.

[Joel]

Right. A lot of them do. And, and what happens to most of the people who end up winning the lottery? Well, stats show that 70% end up bankrupt within just a few years time. And so stealth wealth prevents those cousins you didn't even know you had from coming out of the woodwork to ask for money. I think we can learn a lot from watching lottery winners, how they handle their winnings and how so much of it is on display for other people to see. And, and how a lot of them, when they're interviewing, viewed, like years down the road, they wish that it. They'd never won. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't do as much good in their lives as it doesn't counterbalance all the harm that happens.

[Matt]

Yeah. And you know, as we're talking about folks hitting you up for money, it's, it's not that we're against giving money away. Right. Like, this is a very important point to make. Like, we are all forgiving to causes that you care about. It's not all about Patting your investments and you know, never enjoying the fruits of your labor. But because of your mindset, like you just don't feel the need to necessarily publish it to the wide world either. Uh, it's pretty cool to be able to get to the point in your life where you can meet the needs in your community where you can funnel some meaningful amounts of money towards different nonprofits that you want to support. And so Stealth wealth need not, and it probably shouldn't be a completely self serving endeavor and actually a tool, an account out there to help you to give more strategically is a donor advised fund. We've talked about those.

[Joel]

I'm bullish on them.

[Matt]

I love them here on the show before but they're just a great way to grow your money so that you can, you can, can give even more money down the road while maximizing the tax benefits of those gifts in the, in the here and now. Daffy in particular doesn't sound legit. It sounds, it sounds like it's some Disney, well, you know, like made up kind of thing. But daffy.org it's a great site that we would recommend for you to check out.

[Joel]

Yeah, we'll link to it in the show notes. But it's one of those. Yeah, it's great because even like we talk about where to invest, Vanguard and Fidelity are like two of our favorites. There's a bunch of low cost providers. Those are the ones we recommend when it comes to investing. But even those guys are pretty expensive on the donor advised fund fronts. And Daffy is a nonprofit that is basically eliminating fees almost altogether. They charge a $3 a month fee which is so much less than what the, the big, even low cost brokerage firms are charging. So if you're interested in learning more, it's a really great service and, and love what they're doing. It makes it, it makes it easier to grow the money that you're trying to give away to which if you're into the stealth wealth lifestyle, you're probably going to be into it. But Matt, we've got more to talk about on the topic of stealth wealth, including like a bunch of thoughts for how you actually get there. Hopefully we've sold people. Hey, there's a lot of pros to living the stealth wealth lifestyle. But then how do you actually make it happen? We'll talk about that in just a sec.

[Julianne Moore]

Hi, I'm Julianne Moore. I learn a lot from every role, but some things stay with me more than others, like the impact of Alzheimer's disease. It's important to think about brain health now because there's so much we want to do. Acting early to protect brain health may help reduce the risk of dementia from conditions like Alzheimer's disease. Ask your doctor about your risk factors and for a cognitive assessment. Learn more at Brain Health Matters.

[Brain Health Advocate]

This is a paid partnership with Lily.

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Matt]

Alright man, it is time for that rubber to meet the road. Let's talk now about how you can implement these different tenets of stealth wealth into your own life.

[Joel]

Maybe think about peeling out in my ribben someday.

[Matt]

I don't. I'm sure that there's technology that causes you to not peel out because they want you to have maximum traction.

[Joel]

That's how fancy they are.

[Matt]

But so this makes me think of clinical psychology and therapy. They call it doing the work. And it's also important to do some introspection with your personal finances as well. We want you to spend some time identifying the things that matter to you.

[Julianne Moore]

Right?

[Matt]

Like these are the different areas of spending that are just specifically going to move the needle the most in your life. And I'll mention that self knowledge of this variety, it doesn't just jump into your lap, right? It doesn't come about overnight. And so if you want to live a stealth wealth kind of life, you're going to need to make some changes. And the first step is to do some digging and some dissecting about your current relationship with money and how it is that you spend or maybe even don't spend your money. But if you want some help on that front, well, we've created a money mission statement guide as a PDF. We'll make sure to link to that in the show notes, but that will help to guide you through some of these, like deeper questions about money. It's a fantastic worksheet to go through with a partner or a significant other, but it'll help you to decipher whether your money goals and the reality of how you're actually spending your money are truly in sync or not.

[Joel]

Because in a lot of times like this is the truth for all humans everywhere. In all times, I think the goals that we have for ourselves or the reality we want to live into, like we fall short all the time, right? In how in so many ways, even in just in the ways we want to treat each other, the amount of money we want to give away, we are constantly falling short of even our own goals. And so it's important to kind of see the gap between money goals and the reality that's playing out. So then without that knowledge, it's really hard to close the gap and make changes. And part of this is defining the why behind your money, like what brings you joy, right? And what's best for your family. These are really individual questions or questions to be asked within a really small community, like a family. Because, because the answers are going to vary dramatically for different Some families might be saying we're trying to achieve that digital nomad lifestyle and other families are like, I want the corner office, I'm moving up in my career. And to each their own really on that front. We don't want to tell you how to live in that regard, but asking those questions is going to help you figure out how you want to live. And then you know what will achieving more financial freedom and becoming legitimately wealthy in that stealthy manner, what will that allow you to achieve that you'd otherwise have to forego? Those are good questions to ask. And then the truth is the world is your oyster. But we often, often get stuck in a rut living life in a way that's it's reflecting societal values rather than our own individual ones. It's that river I was talking about and we just getting swept along, we float along it instead of like being the beaver. And that's why we like the craft beer equivalent approach. Because instead of spending money willy nilly on things that catch your eye in the moment, funnel those dollars towards the few things that have an outsized impact on your specific happiness. Matt I have always said since the beginning of this podcast podcast that folk art is one of those things that I spend money on. And a lot of people are like huh? What's that? And it's. It's basically untrained artists. I love this stuff. It's actually not terribly expensive, but it's something that Emily and I funnel meaningful amounts of money towards every single year. And I don't know any single other person that would put folk art on their craft beer equivalent. It really means a lot to us and our family and that those are the kind of things that you have to think through, like pick a few things. What are those craft beer equivalents in your life? Have a few. They might change over the years, too. For a while, for us, it was international travel, and we dialed it back, and it was actually going out to more local restaurants for a minute. But I think it's super personal. But it's important to figure out so that it almost makes you more excited to dial back spending in some of the other ways that aren't moving the needle and funnel more money towards the things you say you value.

[Matt]

I think that's something that matures over time too, or something that you can discover. Cause, like, so I think I'm realizing for Kate and I that one of our craft beer equivalents is spending money on dirt. Like, literally.

[Joel]

That's the weirdest thing you said in a while.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm talking about landscaping. I've mentioned this on the show, I guess, maybe recently, literally paying for dirt, building up some beds, learning about different plants, and buying those plants that we're gonna like. Plants, bushes, fruit trees, all of these different things, all in an effort to bring nature closer to us at home, to where we live. And what's funny is that I don't think I would have ever have said that that was a craft be equivalent. But when I look back on our life, specifically at, like, previous homes that we've owned, we've always done this. And I think at the time, I may have thought, well, from a. From a resale standpoint, or once this becomes a rental, this will be a. It'll be great to have this hedge here to, you know, not see the, you know, the neighbors, chain link fence, like, all of these different things that. Yes, I definitely was thinking. But at the time, we were doing it because we loved it. We just truly enjoyed it. And so, I don't know, literally a

[Joel]

country song about buying dirt, by the

[Matt]

way, is it really?

[Joel]

I'll have to play it for you someday. Not that I'm into. I don't really like traditional country, but my. My son. And so he plays that song a lot, I guess.

[Matt]

I mentioned this because we've spent a lot of money on that. And it's. On one hand, it might be easy to feel guilty for literally spending thousands and thousands of dollars that we did recently on dirt. But on the other hand, I know that this is something that we truly enjoy and that truly matters to us. And so. And again, having seen it throughout history that this is something that has always brought us joy, it helps me to know that we're certainly spending our money in a. In a meaningful way that moves the needle for us.

[Joel]

You just made it really easy for me to know what to get you for your birthday and Christmas doll.

[Matt]

There you go, Bud box. So heavy.

[Joel]

And why are there worms crawling out of it? But got your favorite.

[Matt]

So far, we're kind of talking about, like, mental work, but I'll say we're not psychologists. We're not even close. But just money and psychology and how we think about things are so intertwined, it's not even funny. How can we truly expect to change the narrative that we tell our. That we speak to ourselves when it comes to how we handle the nuts and the bolts of our finances if we're not doing some of this deeper work? And so we just wanted to highlight that this is important. Important. Don't skip this step, essentially, is what I'm saying here. But, you know, now that we've. We've offered you our best Carl Young or Brene Brown impersonation, I think it's important to maybe get to some of the more practical ways to make sure that you are able to achieve some of that stealth wealth status.

[Joel]

All right, so we've got just a few things here that we want to run through. And I think if you. If you take this tactic with each of these things we're going to discuss, you will be pushing yourself more into that stealth wealth mindset and way of living, which is going to impact your overall ability to build wealth, but doing it in a better way, that's countercultural, we would say. And so the first thing is to keep your biggest expenses in check. I mean, if you want to be wealthy but not have other people know it, drive an older car, and don't allocate too much of your income towards living in a fancy house. It's really not rocket science. But again, everything in our culture is pushing us towards doing the exact opposite. Your bank tells you, hey, based on your income and good credit, you can afford a $600,000 house. And that sounds enticing. And you. You start looking at the Zillow Listings and you're like, man, just think about what 600k could buy me. Because I thought for a second we were going to be stuck with $500,000 limit. And boy, now it's exciting to think that we can get more square footage and nicer features. Makes you feel awesome. But you might say we're even upgrading neighborhoods. We didn't think we were going to be able to live on this side of town, but now we can. But the truth is like what we were talking about with Millionaire Next Door. So many of those millionaires optimize to live in neighborhoods they could afford something nicer, but they choose not to. And so opting to buy a $400,000 house instead of the $600,000 one massively increases your financial options. And instead of being house poor, you've got extra cash for saving and investing and maybe even that big trip that you want to take. And so you can buy your freedom so much more easily by making just one or two higher magnitude decisions. And when you get those big things right, you don't have to sweat the small stuff to nearly the same degree. The cost coffee. When you get out at your favorite local cafe, it's not putting you over the edge. You can buy your $5 latte once a week with absolutely no remorse because you have kept that massive expense in check. Instead of signing yourself up for a 3, 500 mortgage, you kept it in check at 2,500, which you can easily afford. And it just gives you a whole lot more options. And you're kind of, you're living in a stealthy way where you're not showing it off either.

[Matt]

That's right. And next, we would recommend for folks to reign in their lifestyle creep. And this is different than what you just talked about, Joel, because you were talking about you're focusing on the larger line item expenses. But when your income increases, don't let your expenses go up commensurately just across the board. Stealth wealth is not achieved overnight. It's going to take persistent action. It's going to take intentionality, both on the savings, but then also on the spending side of the ledger as well. Sure, we want you to negotiate a sweet raise or switch jobs if you need to in order to make more money and maybe get some better benefits. And it's not like that. Those are easy stuff. But when more money starts flowing in, make sure that you use that as fuel for the stealth wealth fire, not as an excuse to just ramp up your mindless spending. And this is especially difficult because we Just live on social media. The stats show now that the average person spends two and a half hours on the different social media apps.

[IBM Representative]

Right.

[Matt]

Like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. It is so easy to see what our friends are buying, what they're spending their money on. And on top of that, we're getting served some pretty enticing highly targeted ads.

[Joel]

It's like a double whammy.

[Sleep Apnea Awareness Voice]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yes, yes.

[Joel]

Push down that river again, further and faster.

[Matt]

There are very few things on except for the how to money pod, Instagram account and the how to money Facebook group. But there are very few things that are pointing us in the direction of spending less money. Yeah, the algorithm, it is going to win sometimes, but just don't let it have the final say.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And the more you kind of opt out of consuming that stuff, I think there is some power in that too. And it makes me think too that the next thing that if you want to achieve stealth wealth you need to do is to hang out with folks who share your value values. And it's not that you want to exclusively hang out with dirt cheap people. Right. Frugal folks. And ditch your current friends, get a whole new set of friends. Because hey, you guys spend too much money. I gotta hang out with the Matt and Joel's of this world. Who are, you know, wrong with that? Right. Who love dirt and crappy art. Right. But the more you run in circles, both online and in real life, who share your commitment to the stealth wealth mindset, that and not showing off an ever growing abundance of possessions, the more you'll feel comfortable doing the same. It's just so easy for us humans to want to mimic each other. And so, yeah, change the herd that's influencing you the most acutely. And now the herd mentality is a good thing. It's helping funnel you in the right direction. And one simple thing to do is to join. Like the how to money Facebook group, got 10,000 people there. They're helping each other out, asking good questions and offering good financial advice. Advice. The non consumer Facebook page we just had Katie on, we just talked about her, like join those kinds of groups. Those are the kind of people who are trying to live this frugal stealth wealth life. They've got that mindset going on and that's going to, I think, propel you. You're going to be surrounded by a horde of people trying to do the same thing. And there's a lot of power in that.

[Event Promoter]

That's right.

[Matt]

Yeah. And stealth wealth also doesn't mean that you avoid Talking about money, though, because I feel like so far we've sort of downplayed the, like, the significance of money. We're all about opening the lines of communication and having productive money conversations with our friends and family. But there's, you know, there's no need to reveal your 401k balance. Bragging about a super high income or your investment balance like that, that kind of takes you out actually of that stealth wealth mindset. But you can for sure talk about frugality. You can talk about investing and the money moves that have helped you create some more breathing room. And you talk about how these changes have, you know, massively, positively impacted your life. How to money listeners are just the kinds of folks out there who should be bringing that conversation to your friends and your family and to your neighbors in an accessible way. Just like that's truly our goal here on the show is to make these money conversations accessible. We want it to be a casual way that you learn about the smart money moves that you should be making. And hopefully that's something that you can do with those around you as well.

[Joel]

Yeah, I think it's important to mention too, we've talked a lot about the stealthy part of it, but wealth, the wealth part of it's important too. We want you saving and investing. We want you funneling more dollars as you live this lifestyle into those investment accounts. We want you to be growing wealth for your future. We want you to be taking part of compounding returns inside your 401k, inside your IRA, investing in real estate. Right. If that's your jam, building wealth is great, but being invisibly wealthy. Right. Opting for the goal of stealth wealth, that comes with a lot of power, so you avoid the trappings that many folks fall into, but you get to live life fully on your own terms. And stealth wealth, it leans into a different definition of success, and it largely casts aside the current cultural view of it. So the definition of success that we often hear from the people around us is more money in the bank account. It's not necessarily more flexibility. Right. And that doesn't have to be the case for you. That doesn't have to be your definition of success. And in fact, we think that's not a great definition of success. It makes me think, think of a tweet I saw recently, Matt from Kevin o', Leary, who hosts Shark Tank, one of the hosts on Shark Tank. And he basically was, that was his definition was like, it doesn't matter if you spend less time with your family and friends, if Your mom hates you, that kind of thing. But as long as you have more money in the bank, then you are a success. And I just can't disagree more with his definition. And so this stealth wealth mindset is kind of a flat out rejection of that kind of way of thinking.

[Stefano Pallard]

Thinking.

[Joel]

And we think that this is a path that's available to folks of all sorts of different professions and different income levels. But stealth wealth is something that I think we can all embrace, at least to a certain extent in our lives.

[Matt]

Yeah, I really like how you broke it down to, like, the stealth. There's, like, the stealth side and there's the wealth side. And the stealth side is honestly, it's about frugality, and it's another way to think about it. And so what I love about that is, like you said, it's incredibly accessible. It's something that you can start to implement today, like, literally to try to earn more money. That takes time. It takes working hard at work. I mean, hopefully you already are working hard at work, but it takes documenting your progress and it takes taking on new projects. It's this thing that you have to build upon, whereas expenses, that's literally something you could do today on the way home from work or actually not do on the way home from work. Because it takes inaction to be able to not spend money. A lot of times it means not stopping at the gas station and buying the coke or whatever it is that you typically. That maybe you like to do on Wednesdays. I don't know. But yeah, man, let's shift gears. Let's get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was a Copper, a traditional alt beer by the old Mecklenburg Brewery. These guys are out of Charlotte. It says on the back here it's. That's Charlotte, right? Clt.

[Joel]

I think so, yeah.

[Matt]

Clt. Born and brewed, but yeah. What were your thoughts on this one?

[Joel]

That's a good little town, by the way. Charlotte's.

[Julianne Moore]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

It says over here on the side.

[Joel]

Yeah, it's kind of like Atlanta Junior, I think that's how I think of it.

[Matt]

Mecklenburg County. Oh, that's a specific. The county.

[Joel]

Sorry, sorry, Charlotte listeners, if that's not a fair characterization and if you feel judged by that.

[Matt]

No, Charlotte's a great place.

[Joel]

It is, it is.

[Matt]

But if you're into banking.

[Joel]

That's true. A lot of banking there in Jacksonville, Florida, too. Another place. And Texas getting more bankers, too. But yeah, this was a classic multi brownish ale is how I think about it. It's not my preferred style, but it takes me back to kind of the early days of craft beer. This is the kind of beer I was all about. I was all into kind of the multi brown and I just don't drink them nearly as much anymore.

[Matt]

Dark European Pilsners.

[Joel]

Yeah. Yeah. So it brings me back to like 25 year old Joel and now I'm 39 and my tastes have evolved. But yeah, so this isn't necessarily like top 10 or anything for me, but I'd say it's solid and yeah, it makes me reminisce a little.

[Matt]

Same doesn't go on any top best beers I've ever had list, but definitely enjoyable. And I would also characterize it as bready. Like it kind of has has that bready whole wheat loaf of bread kind of flavor going on with it. I can't remember how my father in law or where he picked this up, but I think maybe he was up there actually in Charlotte and picked up six pack of this beer. But I wanted to point out too that it had the most unique way of opening the beer. Oh yeah, you didn't see him as into it. I actually liked it. So it was like a metallic. It's a bottle of beer and it's got the traditional metal cap but it had like a pull tab attached to the cap that when you pulled, broke the cap off. I don't know, I kind of liked it. It made it so that you can open a bottle of beer. Like a sealed, not a twist top but an actual pop top.

[Joel]

Bottle of beer made it easy without

[Matt]

an opener, which I've literally never seen it before. It took. It was kind of odd when I first saw it.

[Joel]

It's cute. It's cute.

[Matt]

But I like it.

[Joel]

I'm all about it. Well, big thanks to Greg for donating this one to the show. He's a good father in law, Matt.

[Matt]

So yeah, donating beer to the show. What's not to like about?

[Joel]

Score some points with me for sure. So all right, that's going to do it for this episode. Episode. For folks who want the show notes links to some of the resources that we mentioned on the show today, you can find those up on our [e-mail] that's right.

[Matt]

And if you enjoyed this episode and have not yet left us a review over at Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcast, we would greatly appreciate for you to do that. That's just one I was going to say one small way that you can help get the word out, but it really does have a big impact on the searchability of our podcast. So leave us a solid one over there and a big thank you in advance. Joel. That's going to be it for this episode, buddy. Until next time, best friends out. Best friends out. Okay Joel, I am excited about this one. Here on the show we are all about comparing prices to save money on so many things to going. We're in life so why wouldn't we compare prices for our next ride share? Taking a few seconds to check Lyft can save you real money on your next ride. I did this last time I caught a ride home from the airport after some travel and guess who came out on top? It was Lyft. Don't just price check with your flights and phone plans and groceries. Comparing rideshare prices will help you to save money every time you ride. Save money.

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