Time > Money w/ Ben Miller (Bestie Ep) #1082

How to Money — Time > Money w/ Ben Miller (Bestie Ep) #1082

Podcast by iHeartPodcasts | Hosts: Joel & Matt | Guest: Ben Miller (Founder of Chronify) | December 31, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the crucial relationship between time and money, arguing that time is the more precious asset. Guest Ben Miller shares his journey from Wall Street to founding Chronify, a platform that reframes personal finance in terms of time. Hosts Joel and Matt, along with Ben, emphasize intentionality in spending, redefining financial independence, and using money as a tool to create a more fulfilling life. They also discuss practical strategies for balancing savings, spending, and the pursuit of happiness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Enough” and the Time–Money Tradeoff

[02:11, 24:54, 26:11]

Ben Miller’s Story: Left a high-powered job at Goldman Sachs in search of more meaning, spurred by seeing colleagues accumulate wealth but lack fulfillment (“I hope by the time I’m 45, I’ve done more than just this.” — Ben, [06:46]).
The essential question: How much is enough? Without a clear framework, people either overspend or become unnecessarily frugal.
Time as a Metric: Turning financial questions into time-based ones—e.g., how many months/years of life will this $100 monthly recurring expense cost you?

“When you think about spending your money… thinking about it in terms of hours of your life... kind of hits differently, doesn't it?”
— Joel, [24:54]

"All these numbers that often make people's eyes glaze over... if you can distill it all down to one little simple idea that has intuitive hooks, people can imagine what it's like to relax for seven years. Then, if you've got seven years in the bank, that's what that says."
— Ben, [10:43]

2. Intentional Spending & The Craft Beer Equivalent

[03:32, 19:28, 34:08]

Joel & Matt splurge intentionally on craft beer, illustrating the value of spending “lavishly” on what matters most while being frugal elsewhere.
Ben’s “craft beer equivalent” is strategy board games: “Sometimes can go for like a hundred bucks a pop, but well worth it—hours of family fun.” ([03:48])
Advice: Identify your priorities—invest in joy, not just savings. Ben encourages listeners to “own your spending,” and not just focus on saving.
The danger of excessive deprival: “If you're unhappy at work, then I thought the cure… was to sprint for the finish line. But unhappy at work plus unhappy at home just makes you unhappy.” ([17:56])

"For people who are wired like I am... you need some encouragement to take some ownership of your spending and do that craft beer equivalent type of thing."
— Ben, [19:28]

3. Transitioning Careers, Managing Risk, and Building a Buffer

[08:10, 12:16]

Ben's move from Wall Street to entrepreneurship was driven by both a quest for meaning and greater control over his time.
On financial buffers: Starting a business requires “way higher” than a typical 6-month emergency fund—“maybe a year or two at least set aside.”
Risk tolerance is personal; Ben describes himself as risk-averse, especially with family responsibilities: “I kind of had to oversolve... I had two little kids, now I've got three.” ([12:58])

4. Work–Life Balance and the Realities of Entrepreneurship

[14:04, 16:21, 29:10]

The transition to self-employment means never truly “clocking out,” but there’s fulfillment in the work:
“It's harder for me to be present with my kids than it would be if I had a job I didn't care about. But... they get to witness a father who's in love with his work.”
Entrepreneurship is described as a “punctuated equilibrium”—long hard stretches, then occasional big wins.
Financial independence is reframed: It's not just about “never working again,” but about “curating your problems”—having enough money to choose how you spend your time ([28:02]).

“One of the best things about financial independence... is being able to determine, just based on your sole discretion, what's worth your time and what's not.”
— Ben, [28:02]

5. The Scarcity Mindset vs. Abundance Mindset

[30:09–32:16]

Scarcity can lead to over-saving and under-living; abundance recognizes that savings are “just delayed consumption.”
Balance is key—avoid the “cat food retirement” as much as the trap of accumulating wealth but never enjoying it.

“Savings are always and everywhere just delayed consumption. By budgeting or saving, you’re admitting there is a future worth saving for.”
— Ben, [31:00]

6. Habits, Spending Patterns, and Chronify’s Philosophy

[36:53]

The importance of habits: Small recurring expenses, when annualized and compounded, have major impacts.
Chronify helps users visualize the time consequences of their habits, making the tradeoffs more tangible.
Example: Bringing lunch to work can save $200/month, which equates to needing $60,000 less for retirement (using the 4% rule).

7. On Paying for Convenience and Outsourcing Tasks

[45:26, 47:49, 49:12]

Whether to pay for convenience should be mission-aligned: Does it support your core values and can you afford it?
Both hosts and guest reflect on the balance between DIY and outsourcing, not just for cost but for family learning and values.
Outsourcing everything is warned against: “If you outsource every problem in your life, you’ve just gone and outsourced your life.”

“You need to participate in solving some problems, because otherwise, frankly, there’s nothing left to life.”
— Ben, [49:12]

Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Lure of Financial Independence:

“I did things backwards... Financial independence ASAP, happiness eventually. And that was, for me, completely backwards.”
— Ben Miller, [31:55]

On Mission & Intentionality:

“Step one is knowing what you value. Step one is understanding, for you as an individual, what are your priorities?”
— Ben, [34:08]

On Habit Change:

"The power of habit, especially as it relates to time, is that $200 a month is $2,400 a year... You need $60,000 to fund that habit in perpetuity."
— Ben, [36:53]

On Optimization Culture:

"Optimization is something that can absolutely be overdone... You gotta make sure you're accounting for your humanity here. You're not a robot."
— Ben, [44:08]

On Outsourcing Life:

"If you outsource every problem in your life, you've just gone and outsourced your life."
— Ben, [49:12]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[02:11] Introduction to Ben, time as the center of personal finance
[03:32] Craft beer “equivalent” & intentional spending
[06:46] Epiphany: Watching a coworker retire at 45
[08:10] Genesis of Chronify and reframing money in time terms
[10:43] Impact of “Your Money or Your Life” on personal philosophy
[12:16] Financial requirements for entrepreneurship
[14:04] The work–life balance challenge of entrepreneurship
[16:21] Emotional volatility and the rollercoaster of startups
[17:56] Dangers of deferring happiness and over-saving
[19:28] Encouraging intentional and joyful spending
[24:54] Why reframing expenses in “life hours” matters
[26:11] The concept of “enough”
[28:02] Financial independence as “problem curation”
[30:09] The scarcity mindset and the importance of balance
[31:55] “Financial independence ASAP, happiness eventually” — and why that's wrong
[34:08] How to intentionally increase (and enjoy) spending
[36:53] Analyzing habits and recurring expenses with Chronify
[45:26] Philosophy on paying for convenience versus DIY
[49:12] The perils of outsourcing everything
[50:37] Where to learn more about Ben and Chronify

Takeaways (from Hosts)

Matt: Apply the principle of “missionally aligned” spending to time—if you outsource a task, use that extra time for high-value activities, not just passive relaxation. ([52:10])
Joel: Reframing costs in “hours of life” grants ownership and permission—empowering reluctant spenders to invest in what matters, or rethink if a purchase is “worth it” in life hours. ([54:18])

Episode Tone & Style

Warm, approachable, slightly humorous (“Are you talking about Monopoly? ... Leave that for the kids.”), and focused on practical, jargon-free advice. The hosts and guest repeatedly stress the importance of balancing prudence with joy and intention, making the guidance accessible for anyone, regardless of their financial starting point.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to realign their financial strategy around meaning, not just milestones. By focusing on the intersection of time and money, Joel, Matt, and Ben provide a thought-provoking and actionable guide to living and spending with intention—making each hour, not just each dollar, count.

How to Money — Time > Money w/ Ben Miller (Bestie Ep) #1082

Podcast by iHeartPodcasts | Hosts: Joel & Matt | Guest: Ben Miller (Founder of Chronify) | December 31, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Enough” and the Time–Money Tradeoff

[02:11, 24:54, 26:11]

Ben Miller’s Story: Left a high-powered job at Goldman Sachs in search of more meaning, spurred by seeing colleagues accumulate wealth but lack fulfillment (“I hope by the time I’m 45, I’ve done more than just this.” — Ben, [06:46]).
The essential question: How much is enough? Without a clear framework, people either overspend or become unnecessarily frugal.
Time as a Metric: Turning financial questions into time-based ones—e.g., how many months/years of life will this $100 monthly recurring expense cost you?

“When you think about spending your money… thinking about it in terms of hours of your life... kind of hits differently, doesn't it?”
— Joel, [24:54]

"All these numbers that often make people's eyes glaze over... if you can distill it all down to one little simple idea that has intuitive hooks, people can imagine what it's like to relax for seven years. Then, if you've got seven years in the bank, that's what that says."
— Ben, [10:43]

2. Intentional Spending & The Craft Beer Equivalent

[03:32, 19:28, 34:08]

Joel & Matt splurge intentionally on craft beer, illustrating the value of spending “lavishly” on what matters most while being frugal elsewhere.
Ben’s “craft beer equivalent” is strategy board games: “Sometimes can go for like a hundred bucks a pop, but well worth it—hours of family fun.” ([03:48])
Advice: Identify your priorities—invest in joy, not just savings. Ben encourages listeners to “own your spending,” and not just focus on saving.
The danger of excessive deprival: “If you're unhappy at work, then I thought the cure… was to sprint for the finish line. But unhappy at work plus unhappy at home just makes you unhappy.” ([17:56])

"For people who are wired like I am... you need some encouragement to take some ownership of your spending and do that craft beer equivalent type of thing."
— Ben, [19:28]

3. Transitioning Careers, Managing Risk, and Building a Buffer

[08:10, 12:16]

Ben's move from Wall Street to entrepreneurship was driven by both a quest for meaning and greater control over his time.
On financial buffers: Starting a business requires “way higher” than a typical 6-month emergency fund—“maybe a year or two at least set aside.”
Risk tolerance is personal; Ben describes himself as risk-averse, especially with family responsibilities: “I kind of had to oversolve... I had two little kids, now I've got three.” ([12:58])

4. Work–Life Balance and the Realities of Entrepreneurship

[14:04, 16:21, 29:10]

The transition to self-employment means never truly “clocking out,” but there’s fulfillment in the work:
“It's harder for me to be present with my kids than it would be if I had a job I didn't care about. But... they get to witness a father who's in love with his work.”
Entrepreneurship is described as a “punctuated equilibrium”—long hard stretches, then occasional big wins.
Financial independence is reframed: It's not just about “never working again,” but about “curating your problems”—having enough money to choose how you spend your time ([28:02]).

“One of the best things about financial independence... is being able to determine, just based on your sole discretion, what's worth your time and what's not.”
— Ben, [28:02]

5. The Scarcity Mindset vs. Abundance Mindset

[30:09–32:16]

Scarcity can lead to over-saving and under-living; abundance recognizes that savings are “just delayed consumption.”
Balance is key—avoid the “cat food retirement” as much as the trap of accumulating wealth but never enjoying it.

“Savings are always and everywhere just delayed consumption. By budgeting or saving, you’re admitting there is a future worth saving for.”
— Ben, [31:00]

6. Habits, Spending Patterns, and Chronify’s Philosophy

[36:53]

The importance of habits: Small recurring expenses, when annualized and compounded, have major impacts.
Chronify helps users visualize the time consequences of their habits, making the tradeoffs more tangible.
Example: Bringing lunch to work can save $200/month, which equates to needing $60,000 less for retirement (using the 4% rule).

7. On Paying for Convenience and Outsourcing Tasks

[45:26, 47:49, 49:12]

Whether to pay for convenience should be mission-aligned: Does it support your core values and can you afford it?
Both hosts and guest reflect on the balance between DIY and outsourcing, not just for cost but for family learning and values.
Outsourcing everything is warned against: “If you outsource every problem in your life, you’ve just gone and outsourced your life.”

“You need to participate in solving some problems, because otherwise, frankly, there’s nothing left to life.”
— Ben, [49:12]

Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Lure of Financial Independence:

“I did things backwards... Financial independence ASAP, happiness eventually. And that was, for me, completely backwards.”
— Ben Miller, [31:55]

On Mission & Intentionality:

“Step one is knowing what you value. Step one is understanding, for you as an individual, what are your priorities?”
— Ben, [34:08]

On Habit Change:

"The power of habit, especially as it relates to time, is that $200 a month is $2,400 a year... You need $60,000 to fund that habit in perpetuity."
— Ben, [36:53]

On Optimization Culture:

"Optimization is something that can absolutely be overdone... You gotta make sure you're accounting for your humanity here. You're not a robot."
— Ben, [44:08]

On Outsourcing Life:

"If you outsource every problem in your life, you've just gone and outsourced your life."
— Ben, [49:12]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[02:11] Introduction to Ben, time as the center of personal finance
[03:32] Craft beer “equivalent” & intentional spending
[06:46] Epiphany: Watching a coworker retire at 45
[08:10] Genesis of Chronify and reframing money in time terms
[10:43] Impact of “Your Money or Your Life” on personal philosophy
[12:16] Financial requirements for entrepreneurship
[14:04] The work–life balance challenge of entrepreneurship
[16:21] Emotional volatility and the rollercoaster of startups
[17:56] Dangers of deferring happiness and over-saving
[19:28] Encouraging intentional and joyful spending
[24:54] Why reframing expenses in “life hours” matters
[26:11] The concept of “enough”
[28:02] Financial independence as “problem curation”
[30:09] The scarcity mindset and the importance of balance
[31:55] “Financial independence ASAP, happiness eventually” — and why that's wrong
[34:08] How to intentionally increase (and enjoy) spending
[36:53] Analyzing habits and recurring expenses with Chronify
[45:26] Philosophy on paying for convenience versus DIY
[49:12] The perils of outsourcing everything
[50:37] Where to learn more about Ben and Chronify

Takeaways (from Hosts)

Matt: Apply the principle of “missionally aligned” spending to time—if you outsource a task, use that extra time for high-value activities, not just passive relaxation. ([52:10])
Joel: Reframing costs in “hours of life” grants ownership and permission—empowering reluctant spenders to invest in what matters, or rethink if a purchase is “worth it” in life hours. ([54:18])

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Summary

How to Money — Time > Money w/ Ben Miller (Bestie Ep) #1082

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Enough” and the Time–Money Tradeoff

2. Intentional Spending & The Craft Beer Equivalent

3. Transitioning Careers, Managing Risk, and Building a Buffer

4. Work–Life Balance and the Realities of Entrepreneurship

5. The Scarcity Mindset vs. Abundance Mindset

6. Habits, Spending Patterns, and Chronify’s Philosophy

7. On Paying for Convenience and Outsourcing Tasks

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Takeaways (from Hosts)

Episode Tone & Style

Final Thoughts

Summary

How to Money — Time > Money w/ Ben Miller (Bestie Ep) #1082

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Enough” and the Time–Money Tradeoff

2. Intentional Spending & The Craft Beer Equivalent

3. Transitioning Careers, Managing Risk, and Building a Buffer

4. Work–Life Balance and the Realities of Entrepreneurship

5. The Scarcity Mindset vs. Abundance Mindset

6. Habits, Spending Patterns, and Chronify’s Philosophy

7. On Paying for Convenience and Outsourcing Tasks

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Takeaways (from Hosts)

Episode Tone & Style

Final Thoughts