Podcast Summary: How to Money – "Work Less, Live More w/ Juliet Schor" (#1058, Nov 5, 2025, iHeartPodcasts)

Episode Overview

In this episode of How to Money, host Joel speaks with Juliet Schor, economist and professor of sociology at Boston College, about the evolving relationship between work, consumption, and well-being in modern America. They discuss the overworked culture in the U.S., the “four-day workweek” movement, and how companies and individuals can rethink productivity and fulfillment beyond long hours and excessive consumption. With concrete research, stories from workplaces, and personal finance wisdom, Schor makes the case for working less to truly live more.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Personal Side: Splurges and Upward Spending

• Icebreaker: Joel asks Juliet what she likes to splurge on. She openly admits "expensive hotels" are her weakness and acknowledges being frugal in other areas.
  • “I like expensive hotels.” – Juliet Schor [03:35]
• Story exchange highlights how people acclimate to higher standards of living, reinforcing themes discussed later about lifestyle inflation.

2. The History and Economics of Work Hours in the U.S.

• Historical Trends:
  • Work hours declined over the 19th and early 20th centuries until about 1970, after which the U.S. diverged from other developed nations by increasing average annual hours worked.
  • “Beginning in 1870… you get a long period of work time reduction… but beginning around 1970, we start an upward creep of hours… Americans now work on average more than Japanese do.” – Juliet Schor [10:00]
• Penalties for Short-Hour Jobs:
  • Workers who want shorter hours often face penalties: lower pay, fewer benefits, and limited career progression. The best jobs are often structured as long-hour roles.
• Recent Shifts:
  • Companies today are experimenting with 32-hour weeks with no reduction in pay, and Schor notes employees are generally as productive as before.

3. The Pandemic's Impact and Worker Leverage

• Pandemic Era: Employees briefly had increased leverage, enabling many to reconsider work-life balance. The "cost of job loss" fell due to government support and burnout.
  • “The value of the job really fell during the pandemic… there was the pandemic level stress and then the stress in the workplace… pandemic just put a lot of people over the edge.” – Juliet Schor [13:01]
• This period catalyzed the “four-day workweek” movement.

4. American Work Culture vs. International Comparisons

• Economic Dynamism Argument: Joel raises U.S. productivity and dynamism compared to countries with shorter workweeks (e.g., France, Germany).
  • Juliet’s Response: Productivity is high in those countries, and average citizens have greater well-being, economic security, and leisure. The U.S. rewards a small elite, while many are "exploited in the labor market." [15:43]
  • “You may be less likely to get rich, but… how many billionaires really are there? Hardly any of us are going to get that.” – Juliet Schor [17:07]

5. Culture of Overwork, Consumption, and Lifestyle Inflation

• Do People Want More Time or More Stuff?
  • Surveys show people claim to prioritize time over money, but companies offer raises rather than time off. Lifestyle inflation quickly absorbs increased income.
  • “We acclimate as we get nicer and nicer stuff.” – Juliet Schor [18:37]
• Higher Wage Earners: More likely to choose time if offered, but structural and cultural barriers persist.

6. Four-Day Workweek: Why Now and How It Works

• Why Four Days?
  • Five to four is feasible for businesses; three is a leap. Most companies maintain or even improve productivity.
  • “Five to four companies can manage it… without any loss in productivity.” – Juliet Schor [30:56]
• How is Productivity Maintained?
  • Eliminating Waste: Excessive meetings, distractions, and inefficient workflows are cut. A “forcing function” makes companies optimize processes they’ve long neglected.
  • “There’s a lot of wasted time in meetings. So many of these… white collar companies… meetings are the number one thing that they look at. Number two, they look at distractions.” – Juliet Schor [31:25]
  • Example: A brewery revamped operations, and tech firms improved documentation and internal processes.
• Employee Benefits:
  • Less fatigue, better sleep, more exercise, higher well-being, and improved self-perceived productivity.
  • “People just feel so much more on top of their work.” – Juliet Schor [37:50]

7. Overcoming Cultural and Practical Barriers

• Implementation: Most successful four-day week shifts are company-wide and initiated from management (top-down), though “evangelists” within companies use existing data and peer company stories for persuasion.
  • “Most of them are small and medium size… they’re doing it as a whole company and that’s really good because… if it’s just a few individuals… they’re going to get the stigma.” – Juliet Schor [39:15]
• Cultural Resistance:
  • The “productivity theater” and “last man standing” cultures perpetuate overwork and mask inefficiency.
  • “They call it productivity theater… people just pretend to be productive.” – Juliet Schor [46:16]
  • Real change is seen as a response to burnout and high turnover, not just idealism.

8. The Link Between Consumption, Spending, and Work

• Connected Consumption:
  • Embracing sharing, swapping, buying used, and long-lived products (supported by technology and “buy nothing” sites) can reduce the need for high income and long hours.
  • “When you don’t have time, you just buy something and you'll pay more because you don’t have the time to figure out how to pay less.” – Juliet Schor [54:35]
• Freedom through Frugality:
  • Choosing less consumption enables people to opt for more satisfying work or more free time.

9. Navigating the “Post-Growth” Era

• What is Post-Growth Living?
  • The idea is that continued GDP growth isn’t necessary for a good life; “enough” is attainable, especially as our desires typically decrease with age.
  • “The idea that every year we have to consume more… that’s a problem in a world where the ecological footprint… is destroying the planet.” – Juliet Schor [57:31]

10. Practical Takeaways for Listeners

• How to Act:
  • Seek out or advocate for four-day week opportunities—there’s a growing movement and significant research behind it.
  • “These people who work in them, they’ve like dined and gone to heaven… it’s not just life is better… it’s transformative.” – Juliet Schor [58:56]
  • 14% of surveyed workers say they wouldn’t return to a five-day week “for any amount of money.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If you want a short hour job… you pay a Huge penalty for it.” – Juliet Schor [07:23]
• “Americans now work on average more than Japanese do.” – Juliet Schor [12:14]
• “You may be less likely to get rich, but… how many billionaires really are there?” – Juliet Schor [17:07]
• “We acclimate as we get nicer and nicer stuff.” – Juliet Schor [18:37]
• “The whole day off is huge… your hourly wage goes up a lot.” – Juliet Schor [19:58]
• “Meetings are like the number one thing that they look at.” – Juliet Schor [31:25]
• “The forcing function… is so interesting… the theory is that the market is the forcing function… but in the real world, that’s not actually how it works.” – Juliet Schor [34:25]
• “People sleep more and have fewer sleep problems and they exercise more.” – Juliet Schor [36:47]
• “I would never go back to a five-day a week job for any amount of money.” – Juliet Schor [59:17]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:15–04:32: Splurges, lifestyle inflation
• 06:04–08:52: Labor market design, penalties for shorter hours
• 10:00–12:46: History of work hours in the U.S.
• 13:01–15:17: Pandemic’s impact on jobs and work culture
• 15:43–19:54: Comparing U.S. and European work cultures; wants (time vs. money)
• 31:12–34:09: Mechanics and effects of the four-day workweek
• 36:47–38:36: Employee well-being with reduced hours
• 39:15–42:00: How the four-day week is implemented and cultural pushback
• 44:48–46:16: “Productivity theater” and the drive for longer work hours
• 52:25–54:35: “Connected consumption”—spend less, work less, live more
• 55:47–58:28: Post-growth economics and life satisfaction

Final Thoughts & Listener Guidance

This episode argues convincingly that working less is possible—personally and collectively—without sacrificing productivity or well-being. The four-day workweek, rather than being a radical fantasy, is increasingly data-driven and business-practical, with cultural and emotional benefits to both employees and employers.

Actionable Advice:

• Advocate for a trial of a four-day week at your company using research from companies that have succeeded.
• Examine your own spending; less consumption can mean more freedom to cut hours.
• Seek workplaces (or create your own) valuing well-being and efficacy over mere presence.

Memorable Close: “These people who work in them, they’ve like dined and gone to heaven… it’s life-changing.” – Juliet Schor [58:56]

For more on Juliet Schor and her book “Four Days a Week” (Harper Business, 2025), look her up on LinkedIn—the most vibrant platform for discussion about the four-day workweek.

This summary covers the heart of the episode, emphasizing the interplay between work, consumption, culture, and well-being as articulated by Juliet Schor and host Joel, providing critical timestamps and notable quotes for further listening or sharing.