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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless build? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better. Every plan $15 a month, even unlimited. That's it. Happy ending, zero tears. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
- [00:23]
Betsy
of $45 for three months, $90 for
- [00:24]
Amanda Ripley
six months or $180 for a 12 month plan.
- [00:25]
Betsy
Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50gb. Me slow when network is busy.
- [00:29]
Amanda Ripley
See Terms.
- [00:30]
Mike Pesca
Hello, it's Mike Pesca, host of how to. But not this week. This week we bring you one from the vault. A best of. And it really is a best of. Listen to this best of Best of How to how to bounce back from Burnout. A lot of bees there. So many bees. I need a little bit of rest and that's why I took the week off. I might be suffering burnout. So I listened to this old show and I learned how not to suffer burnout. Amanda Ripley was hosting back in 2022. What a great host. You're going to hear Amanda give a number, maybe an address. Those are defunct. The way to get in touch with us because we do want your questions. We're working on them. We have a slew of how to to bring to you. It's how to@mike pesca.com but now the pre Mike Pesca error. He said speaking of himself in the third person that could maybe induce some burnout from your end. If so, listen to this. How to bounce back from burnout.
- [01:22]
James Altucher
Burnout is not just about oh, I hated this job or I didn't like these people. Burnout is about there is something that your brain and body want to do differently and if you kind of go back into the fire, you're still going to be burned.
- [01:39]
Amanda Ripley
Welcome to how to. I'm Amanda Ripley. Before we get started today, just a reminder that if you have any questions or quandaries you're struggling with right now, send them our way. You can always email us@howtoslate.com or send us a voicemail at 646-495-4001. We genuinely love hearing from you. That's how we most of our listeners, including this week.
- [02:03]
Betsy
Yeah. So I'm Betsy. I'm a Coloradan. I like to ride bikes and play outside and I have a dog and I'm looking for a job.
- [02:13]
Amanda Ripley
The average person will spend around 90,000 hours at work over the course of a lifetime. That's roughly a third of your life. No wonder it can feel sometimes like you are your work and your work is you, which is why it's so upsetting when your job goes south. Betsy's worked for years as a photographer, educator, and storyteller. When she joined her most recent job, she thought she'd found the perfect combination.
- [02:38]
Betsy
I chose that workplace because it had a really strong mission and it was making a positive impact on people's lives. It seemed like a good place to work from the outside.
- [02:48]
Amanda Ripley
When Betsy joined, it was a smallish startup that was known as a great place to work in Colorado. The company expanded rapidly, really rapidly, and the influx of new colleagues created an environment that was. Was much more competitive and stressful and just a lot less fun.
- [03:04]
Betsy
The environment for me was really toxic, and I think over time, I was becoming somebody that I didn't like. I felt really defensive all the time. Everything felt like a battle. And I think that that led into my life outside of work. It's just like either I was exhausted from fighting all day, but I just was, like, frustrated that it just sort of like it fed into, I think, things outside of my work life as well.
- [03:31]
Amanda Ripley
Unfortunately, this wasn't Betsy's first experience with a startup culture that went bad earlier in her career. She was at a place where layoffs became really, really common.
- [03:41]
Betsy
You were just sort of always on edge, wondering what would happen. I got very good at what I would call calendar stalking. Like, I would pull up different people's calendars and infer, you know, what was happening based on the meetings they were having. It's a terrible way to work.
- [03:56]
Amanda Ripley
Even with that previous experience, though, it was hard to step outside of the daily grind of her most recent workplace to realize just how much the environment had soured for her.
- [04:08]
Betsy
I will tell you, getting laid off is the best thing that happened to me because I felt like I was really close to rage quitting. Like, at certain point I was going to tell someone off or I was going to snap, and I just thought, oh, thank God, I don't have to do this anymore, which is awful.
- [04:23]
Mike Pesca
And.
- [04:23]
Betsy
And so now I'm in this space where I'm interviewing at some different companies, and I really don't want to make that mistake again. This company was a place that was on all the best workplaces, top workplace, blah, blah, blah. I want to understand how I can do a better job, like, from the outside of understanding what workplace culture is like. But then what can I do? Going into a new role to sort of set myself up to success, like making it a place I want to work.
- [04:52]
Amanda Ripley
If there's one person we know who knows how to make his own own destiny, it's James Altucher. James has switched jobs more than some people switch shoes. This Guy started over 20 companies. Some have made millions, some have gone belly up. He's an investor, a stand up comedian, and a chess master. He also hosts a popular podcast and has written a stack of books that empower people to reinvent themselves and do big things.
- [05:18]
James Altucher
And I understand it's hard getting laid off and it's hard to get over that. The best way to get over that is to be successful and happy in your next venture and then you quickly forget about being laid off.
- [05:29]
Amanda Ripley
So the best way to get over an old relationship is to get into a new one, Hopefully a better one. James has some great tips for Betsy and for all of us on how to take the sting out of rejection and bounce back from burnout. We'll be right back.
- [05:50]
Mike Pesca
If you're looking for another podcast that brings therapy resources to your earbuds, then check out the self work podcast. Ten years ago, Dr. Margaret Rutherford decided to extend the walls of her psychology practice as far as they could go, and the Self Work Podcast was born. Each week, Dr. Margaret dives into an issue in mental health that she's personally researched, adding in her own two bits from over 30 years of experience. And you'll also hear the interviews with creative and informative guests who bring their own experience to the table. Her warm Southern drawl soothes and comforts. She's about as down to earth as they come. Rated by many as the best depression podcast out there, Self Work stresses what you can do about it. So if you're seeking ideas and actions to move yourself forward, Self Work is for you. Find it on your favorite podcast app and tell them how to sent you.
- [06:45]
Amanda Ripley
One of the reasons we wanted to bring James on the show today is that he's very familiar with both sides of the HR equation. He's hired people and he's shaped company culture, but he's also been shown the door.
- [06:58]
James Altucher
Yeah, one time I was at a company that had bought a prior company of mine and this was my second company that I had sold. And so you have to work for the company for a while. That buys your company. And one day a year or so after they bought my company and I was working there, they called me in for a meeting and There was an HR person sitting in the meeting, and I suddenly realized, oh, this is not good. I would end up broke and losing a home and. And everything, and it would be hard to. I'd feel like such a failure and so ashamed of what people would think about me that I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't return calls. I would completely, like, just drop out. And it was hard for me to kind of overcome my own feelings of shame. It's almost like I had this fixed mindset that I was smart, I was successful, I was creative, and if anything touched that narrative, I would completely fall apart. That's also the worst time to make decisions. It doesn't occur to people what their solutions are when. When they're feeling really down and, like,
- [08:04]
Amanda Ripley
you kind of get tunnel vision.
- [08:05]
James Altucher
Yeah, yeah. And it becomes even worse. Like, every day, your options seem less and less as you're getting depressed, and you don't have the creativity or the health to come up with solutions because you need your brain, you know, active on all cylinders. You know, a lot of what you're saying, Betsy, has to do with the company, but also has a little bit to do with you. That's why you're asking, how do you avoid some situation in the future like this? And unfortunately, there's no real way to avoid it. You know, when people are interviewing you for a job, they're on best behavior, just like you're on best behavior.
- [08:42]
Amanda Ripley
James, how did you, like, when you were in that place where you felt really just you couldn't come up with solutions? You're. The funnel was getting narrower and narrower. How did you navigate that? How did you get out?
- [08:58]
James Altucher
I think initially I wanted a very specific solution, and I didn't realize until I'd been through this a bunch of times that the way to solve A, B, and C starts with me. Am I doing the things I need to do every single day for my physical health? Like, am I sleeping enough? Am I exercising? Am I eating well? Am I doing the things every day for my emotional health? Am I reaching out to friends and family and enjoying their support and comfort and friendship and so on? And that includes networking with old friends who I might not have spoken to in years. Am I doing things for my creative health? Like, you know, Betsy, you're a creative, and your creativity is not defined by your job. And so I would make sure every single day, at the very least, I would take out a notepad and I would write down 10 ideas a day just to keep my. What I call my possibility Muscle open.
- [09:59]
Amanda Ripley
I love that. Betsy, do you have a daily regimen for yourself right now? And how is that going? Like what would be on your regimen?
- [10:07]
Betsy
So not particularly. Like I said, I think I've still sort of been settling into what that looks like, having gone through kind of this emotional experience. Like it was really hard in the weeks after getting laid off, I was like really emotional. Some days I'd like, were really like high and exciting and I'd go for a hike and it felt great. And then the next day I would just feel like so terrible and sort of depressed about, you know, I didn't want to look for jobs. Nothing was interesting. I didn't have any motivation. But some of the things that James is saying that sort of resonated with me. I've been taking a class in like social media marketing just to sort of think differently. And some of the projects related to that, that class have, have been exercising that muscle, I think in a way that reinvigorate me a little bit.
- [11:01]
Amanda Ripley
Here's our first rule. If you're stuck in a pit of despair because of a layoff or a current job that just makes you miserable, you cannot see the sunrise right above your head. The only way out is to build a ladder one rung each day. Exercise, meditate, talk to friends. You know the drill, but also exercise your possibility muscle. As James Sundays, write down 10 ideas each day, no matter how crazy they are, and then take some time to ruminate on your best moments from the past, not your worst.
- [11:35]
James Altucher
What was I doing right on the times when things were going well and what was I doing wrong personally on the times when things were not going well? For me, this is when I got to this idea that, oh, when things were going well. I did have a daily practice of checking the box on physical, emotional, creative, even spiritual. And also very important, making sure I was around people who supported me and who wanted me to be successful.
- [12:04]
Amanda Ripley
Well, I love this idea of looking back at like when were you most in, you know, happy or engaged or the person you most want to be, the Betsy you most want to be. Right. I remember once I did this exercise in a class I took years ago where they had you create a timeline for your whole life and then just draw a line like on the x axis of like over time you're sort of sense of thriving. When did it go up and when did it go down and then really notice the ups, the, you know, the mountains, the hills and like what, what was happening then, you know, and it was, it was funny. Because it almost always came down to, did I feel like I was part of a community?
- [12:45]
Betsy
Yes. What you just said, like, a space like that for creative teams is so incredibly important. Like, I need to be in a place where it feels okay to fail. Because if you can't, you never innovate and you never push the work further. And maybe that's part of what it was, too. It just became this, like, kind of engine that made the same thing because that's what was safe.
- [13:05]
Amanda Ripley
Yeah. When we had layoffs at Time magazine, like, year after year. It's just, you can't take risks, you can't try new things because you're just hunkered down. And like, I don't know if that was the feeling of being hunkered down, but there's like this guardedness. Yes.
- [13:18]
Betsy
I used to. It felt like battle mode is what I said. Like, I always had armor on. And it just felt like no one came to the table as a collaborator. It was just a, like, demander.
- [13:29]
James Altucher
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm just curious. Why do you want a job?
- [13:34]
Betsy
I mean, that's a really good question, James. I'm not sure I do, because I'm.
- [13:39]
James Altucher
Of course everybody wants to make money and work with people and advance their career and build their talents and skills, but a job is just one way to do all of those things, including making money. If you didn't have to have a job for a corporation, what would you love to make money doing?
- [13:57]
Amanda Ripley
Whenever you're looking for a job, people always tell you to follow your passions. But if you're burned out, it's hard to feel excited about anything. So how do you generate passion out of thin air? One trick James has used is to send unsolicited advice to companies who create things he cares about. Listen to this.
- [14:20]
James Altucher
So I would come up with 10 ideas for myself, or I would think of even, here's 10 ideas for Netflix. And sometimes I might even just cold send those ideas to a company like Netflix. And that actually created weird opportunities for myself doing things like that. But I did it every single day. One time I wrote to Amazon. This was like, in 2014, 2013, here's 10 ideas for your self publishing group. And somebody wrote back and said, wow, these are great. Let us know if you're ever in Seattle. We'll give you a tour of the facility and we'll show you our new products that we're working on. And I wrote back and I said, well, it just so happens I'm going to be in Seattle next week. Now, I had no plans to be in Seattle, and I had never even been in Seattle in my life. But they were like, great, stop by, we'll spend the day. And so I flew out there and it was great. And then when I next self published a book, I had people to call if there were any difficulties.
- [15:16]
Betsy
I love this idea of exploring the creative intersection of just, you know, the things I love doing. Like, how might I not even monetize that, but, like, turn that into some form of content. Like, combine the thing I love to make or do with the, you know, the activities I enjoy as well. Because even if that doesn't end up as a business, I think that practice will be really fulfilling, in part just because I never felt like I had a lot of energy to put towards that. It was part of battling this burnout. But the other thing that is connecting with me right now is I'm really inspired by James's confidence. And I think that's something that happened at this company over the last handful of years, too, has really destroyed my confidence in my work and myself. And I think that the practice of getting back to just, like, creative work for the sake of making things might help restore that in a way that is really important for me.
- [16:18]
Amanda Ripley
Could I think of. I wonder if we could give you a homework assignment, Betsy, for sometime this week. Tell me what you think it is.
- [16:24]
James Altucher
I was thinking the same thing, Amanda.
- [16:25]
Betsy
Oh, good.
- [16:25]
Amanda Ripley
Here's my idea for a homework assignment. I want you to maybe email, like, come up with one big, bold idea for some company that you feel like you have no business advising and email them with your idea do. So do what James would do. Like, it's a bold move. Probably we won't hear anything back, but, like, maybe it's a way of opening up the possibilities like James has said.
- [16:49]
James Altucher
And the other thing is related to this, I would come up with 20 bad ideas for the company because sometimes quantity is better than quality. You know, there's a famous advertising executive named George Lois. He's written a bunch of books about advertising, and he did this exercise with the people working at his ad agency. First he said, come up with one good idea for our new client. He comes back from lunch, nobody's come up with any ideas. And he says, okay, I'm gonna go at it for an hour again. I want you to come up with 20 ideas for the client. They all had 20 ideas when he came back. So it kind of loosens up the gears a little bit easier if the
- [17:27]
Amanda Ripley
volume is just anything goes Right, Yeah.
- [17:30]
James Altucher
And just do it for fun. Like when I started doing this when I, when I wasn't employed and I was having some other problems, it made me happy for the first time in a long time. And, and I just loved doing it. I was getting excited about things that were never going to happen. They were just happening in my brain. Another thing to do is sometimes I go through my Gmail and I'll go back to like 2018 or 2014 and I'll find someone who emailed me and maybe I never responded to that particular email. And so I'll hit reply and let's say the person said hey, would you like to grab lunch this week? And I never responded. For whatever reason I'll hit reply and I'll say sure, how's next Tuesday? And, and that's like this, like nobody. If you never like let's say they were upset at you, they're suddenly they're not going to be upset at you because it's funny. And, and suddenly you're networking again with people you had lost contact with or anything. Like just stuff like that is just fun. But incrementally moves the needle forward on as you refer to your confidence, your creativity, your networking, your career. And then when you go for these interviews you're going to know, hey, do I have that same feeling that I had when I was doing these fun possibility exercises?
- [18:47]
Betsy
Yeah, something that's like really lit up in me as you guys have been. I guess my inner nerd has been activated at the idea of homework. Something I like about working at a company is the framework and the structure and the assignments basically. And what sounds like it would be valuable for me is figuring out how to give those self assignments to bring structure to this time. But also like challenge myself to make something that I wouldn't have made otherwise. Like I just really need the framework or the structure as a motivator.
- [19:21]
James Altucher
I think I always give myself that structure. I always do some of this kind of weird networking every day and I've time set aside in my calendar for it and these types of things like you know, calling a family member, I have to do that every day to feel that or some way to feel community because I know this is important for general well being and all of these things generate more and more energy. And it's that energy that's a power that will reveal itself in an interview and will also shine a light on all the people interviewing you. You will have the superpower to see if you want to work with these people. They're going to have to convince you that they're worthy.
- [20:06]
Amanda Ripley
When we come back, James has some very clever interview questions to help you develop that superpower and sort out whether a job is likely to lead to burnout before you get there. Don't go anywhere.
- [20:27]
Mike Pesca
If you're looking for another podcast that brings therapy resources to your earbuds, then check out the self work podcast. Ten years ago, Dr. Margaret Rutherford decided to extend the walls of her psychology practice as far as they could go, and the Self Work Podcast was born. Each week, Dr. Margaret dives into an issue in mental health that she's personally researched, adding in her own two bits from over 30 years of experience. And you'll also hear the interviews with creative and informative guests who bring their own experience to the table. Her warm southern draw soothes and comforts she's about as down to earth as they come. Rated by many as the best depression podcast out there, Self Work stresses what you can do about it. So if you're seeking ideas and actions to move yourself forward, Self Work is for you. Find it on your favorite podcast app and tell them how to sent you.
- [21:24]
Amanda Ripley
If you rely on how to to deal with burnout or anything else, the best way to support the show is by joining Slate Plus, Slate's membership program. Signing up for Slate plus helps us help all the people you hear on our podcast every week. You'll also never hear another pesky ad, and you'll get total access to Slate's website, so I hope you'll join if you can. To sign up, go to slate.com howtoplus Again, that's slate.com howtoplus Thanks. We're back with Betsy, who's trying to get over a recent layoff, and our expert, James Altucher. Betsy came to us wanting to know how to avoid getting burned at her next job. How do you tell if a place has a good culture before you get there? It's hard to do, but James says there are a few questions you can ask in the interview process.
- [22:20]
James Altucher
There's the how do you judge success? But there's also how do you judge failure? And what do you do? You know you're talking to a manager who's interviewing you. What do you do when you see things not going the way you like? You don't really get information from asking positive kind of questions because everyone could answer the question how do you judge success? In a variety of ways, but how they really deal with, you know, when things aren't going the way they had hoped, whether it's in their own job or with an employee or whatever that's worthwhile noting. Um, it's also interesting just to ask, what have people gone on to do after they left the company? Now, this is a hard question to ask because then they're thinking, oh, she might want to leave the company pretty soon. But you could ask perhaps why people have left the company in the past willingly as opposed to being fired. And the way the interviewer talks about them. Oh, you know, if they say, oh, they left because they thought they would be better elsewhere, but guess what? They messed up elsewhere, then you know, that's a little bit gossipy, the way they're talking about the person. Gossip is a big sign of toxicity in your first conversation with someone and that, you know, kind of having like a gossip meter where you're kind of registering the moments where you feel it's a little tiny bit of gossip. That. That's a huge red flag.
- [23:46]
Amanda Ripley
And I love this idea of looking for any sign of gossip as a red flag that just. Right. As soon as you said it, I've never articulated, but as soon as you said, I'm like, oh, yeah, that is right.
- [23:57]
James Altucher
If they're gossiping with you, they're gossiping about you. Is the key thing to know there
- [24:01]
Amanda Ripley
a cheap way to build immediate intimacy.
- [24:04]
James Altucher
Exactly. And. But that also tells you that if it's so cheap, then they're cheap.
- [24:13]
Amanda Ripley
But to pick up on subtle clues like that, you got to come into the room feeling good yourself. James says,
- [24:20]
James Altucher
so if I'm feeling insecure or down or burnt out, I might not notice when someone's exhibiting, like, even the tiniest bit of gossip, like they're exhibiting toxic behavior. Which is why it's so important also to bring your best energetic self back to.
- [24:37]
Amanda Ripley
Yeah, you're saying you got to experience at least a glimpse, right. Of that feeling of energy and hope, possibility.
- [24:45]
James Altucher
There's like, the foundation is, are these things to do, like physical, emotional, creative, spiritual health that builds this foundation of energy. And then there's the specifics, like, look for gossip. You know, these more specific, more tactical techniques.
- [25:01]
Amanda Ripley
Yeah. And by the way, I know it might be awkward maybe to ask in a interview, why do people leave this job? So I used to write a lot about schools and education, and a question I would ask is, you know, what kind of student is a really good fit here? And then I would ask, what kind of students really typically not a good match for this place? And people were very happy to tell you because then it's. It's putting it on Them. And again, you can also learn probably about the culture from how they answer that question. But that's a great idea. They don't want a bad fit. Like, they really don't. They'll tell you things that can be revealing.
- [25:37]
Betsy
I love that because it's kind of in line with what we were speaking about earlier, too, which is, like, if it catches them off guard and they don't have this, like, performative answer. I mean, I was a hiring manager at this previous company, and people ask me all the time, what's the culture like? And, I mean, what am I going to say, right? Like, I hate it here. So, you know, I'm no stranger to presenting a package to people like that. So I love the idea of framing it that way of, like, what kind of person isn't a good fit here?
- [26:10]
Amanda Ripley
Now that you've worked on building your possibility muscle and you've gathered some clues about a prospective office culture, James has one last piece of advice, and it might surprise you. Care less.
- [26:25]
James Altucher
Like, do this interview. Care about what happens, but don't care too much. Like, kind of do this interview almost as practice for you assessing whether this is the type of job you want. Like, don't be too much, like, oh, I really need to do well at this interview. Again, take a step back and view this interview as an experiment in trying to see, hey, how can I interview differently? So I'm learning something rather than just trying to sell myself to, to these people.
- [26:53]
Betsy
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I. I feel like I came into this wondering, you know, how do I avoid getting to a toxic workplace? But it seems like I, in the course of wherever I land next, need to take better care of myself through, like, creative outlet and balance outside of work. And that, that in and of itself will help me maintain some of these things. I lost, like, empathy and confidence and that if I'm able to hold on to those things through some of these other practices that, like, that will serve me well wherever I land.
- [27:32]
Amanda Ripley
That seems very wise. Yeah.
- [27:34]
James Altucher
You know, everything you do at a corporation is like a negotiation. And it's easy when you don't have the energy to respond or when you've been beaten down by the toxicity of the workplace. It's easy for the others to win that negotiation every time. But that's why it's so important to restore. Even with a great job, it's so important to restore outside of the workplace.
- [27:57]
Amanda Ripley
That leaves as a question I want to ask you, James, is how do you know when it's time to Leave a job.
- [28:02]
James Altucher
Well, I remember one time, and this was when I was starting in the hedge fund business. This one hedge fund manager who I was managing some money for him. I would go out to dinner with him, you know, once a month or so. And every time we went out to dinner, I would feel bad about myself when I got home. And finally I realized I just said it out loud. I feel bad about myself every time I eat dinner with this person. And so that was a bad person to work with. And he was sort of a mentor to me also, which I realized he was a bad person to mentor me. And that turned out to be true. It had an ugly ending. But then you learn to recognize that, oh, I feel bad every time I'm around this person. And is it me? Well, I'm doing all the things I know I do for energy and for health, so I should just move away from this person.
- [28:52]
Amanda Ripley
Betsy, have you experienced that feeling of drain or its opposite?
- [28:57]
Betsy
100%. I've had to banish some energy vampires from my life, for sure, at least socially. And I think what's interesting to me is that one, as I spent more time in this workplace and it chipped away at my skills and empathy, it was harder to have the energy to do that. And it was. It was harder over time. Like, it just becomes really, really difficult to put all these things we're saying into practice if you. If it goes too long. And it's funny, I was actually on vacation a couple weeks before I got laid off, and it was one of the first times in a very long time I, like, truly managed to check out. I told my team, like, to don't call me. I actually don't care what happens. Like, just deal with it or escalate it or whatever, but do not call me. And I wholly checked out, and I felt amazing.
- [29:54]
Amanda Ripley
That's great.
- [29:54]
Betsy
And the moment we landed at the airport in Denver, I still had four days before I had to go back to work. And I was already being consumed with this overwhelming sense of dread and that I did know. I said, it's time. I have to go. I have to get out. But I was conflicted because I. I didn't have the energy. It's just, like, such a difficult place to be in. Which is why when they showed up and let me go, I was like, thank you. This is the best thing you could have done for me in this moment.
- [30:24]
Amanda Ripley
So, yeah. And, Betsy, I really feel like you have that vibe and it will be fully recovered and you have ways of taking care of yourself physically and mentally and you're able to articulate what, what went wrong and what you need and who you want to be. So that I'm feeling very, I'm feeling very bullish on this one.
- [30:46]
Betsy
I feel so inspired and so grateful for this conversation. Like, I just, I feel really, really excited about where I go from here. And I feel really, really excited for the interviews I have scheduled because I've got some new questions to ask. And it also just alleviates this pressure.
- [31:05]
James Altucher
As cliche again as this sounds today, you are the youngest person you will ever be for the rest of your life. So time to enjoy that youth.
- [31:15]
Betsy
Totally.
- [31:16]
James Altucher
After this call, you should go back in your emails to like 2016, find someone you didn't respond to and hit reply and just respond with anything.
- [31:25]
Betsy
I love it. And I'm also going to email you after this, James, in the hopes that like 10 years from now I'll get a note.
- [31:31]
James Altucher
Absolutely.
- [31:36]
Amanda Ripley
Thank you to Betsy for sharing her story with us and to James Altucher for all of his great advice. Make sure to check out his podcast and his latest book, Skip the Line
- [31:47]
Mike Pesca
and oh, this is Mike again. I would like to credit everyone who worked on that show which was hosted by Amanda Ripley. That was executive producer Derek John, Rosemary Belson, 3 Music, Hannah Brown, remixed by Merritt Jacob. The way to get in touch with us now is how to ikepeska.com then and now. Charles Duhigg created the show this week on the gist. In fact, today we have the second of a two part interview with Joseph Moore who wrote a book called how to Get Rich in American History. Here's some of that distance between me and Jeff Bezos or you and Jeff Bezos is an utterly irrelevant conversation. The question is, am I better off than my previous generations of my family were? And am I? Do I have the capability to make my life better? Guess what? Joseph Moore himself got riched. Okay, next week we are back. I am back with new editions of how to.
- [32:51]
Ryan Reynolds
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