How To Connect With An Audience

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How To Connect With An Audience"

Podcast: How To! with Mike Pesca
Date: May 26, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Projects)
Guests: Dylan Condor (musician), Sharon Van Etten (singer-songwriter)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the challenge of connecting authentically with a live audience—specifically, the art of stage banter. Dylan Condor, an accomplished musician more comfortable with guitar than between-song chatter, seeks advice on upping his banter game. Mike Pesca brings in singer-songwriter Sharon Van Etten as the “bantor mentor” to help Dylan develop conversational, engaging stage presence, moving beyond self-deprecation and awkwardness to genuine connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Dylan’s Dilemma

• Dylan expresses frustration about his lack of confidence and authenticity in stage banter, despite feeling solid musically.
• He seeks tips for speaking genuinely between songs, finding that trying to be “charming” or “off the cuff” often feels forced.
• Quote:

  "I never feel like I got singing that together. But I got to a place where I'm like, okay, I can represent my songs and not, not be in my head the whole time... But getting up there and singing in front of people and talking between songs and stuff was like, oh, I thought I was confident and it turns out I'm not." — Dylan Condor (01:34)

2. Why Stage Banter Matters

• Mike and Sharon discuss how many musicians overlook this part of live performance, only realizing its importance once they face audiences.
• Banter is positioned not as filler, but as a way to break the performer–audience wall and foster real engagement.
• Quote:

  "It can be pretty intense when you're tuning guitar. And then it's just the silence on stage and the people looking at you to say something really clever." — Sharon Van Etten (07:30)

3. Sharon’s Banter Journey

• Sharon admits she started out with social anxiety, letting her hair cover her face and keeping verbal interactions minimal or awkward.
• She learned to treat shows, especially in intimate venues, as two-way conversations with the audience—not one-sided performances.
• The performer and the crowd are on "the same level," not separate worlds.
• Quote:

  "I felt like that's where I started learning how to engage people and have it feel more of a conversation where you're all on the same level, as opposed to you're the performer and they're the audience." — Sharon Van Etten (08:40)

4. Techniques for Better Banter

• Authenticity over Shtick: Avoid forced jokes or copying “rockstar” tropes; don’t write “bits” but instead let honest moments shine through.

• Know the Room: Sharon adapts her banter based on audience energy—reading the crowd’s age, attentiveness, and mood to choose tone (serious, jokey, etc.).

• Use of Self-Deprecation: Be careful with self-deprecating humor—it can make you relatable but, overdone, becomes an “armor” that deflects vulnerability.

• Keep it Terse: Limit between-song talking to two sentences when unsure.

• Express Nerves as Excitement: Reframe stage jitters as “we’re taking a risk together”—it involves the audience emotionally.

• Quote:

  "You can express your nervousness as excitement...This is new and I'm trying it for you. We wanted to do something special today. Who knows what's gonna happen?" — Sharon Van Etten (13:05)
  "Well, should he prescript?" — Mike Pesca
  "I don't know. I have emergencies. If it's really quiet, I hear somebody's phone ring, I'll say, if that's my mom, tell her I'm not here. Or if somebody sneezes, I'll say bless you or need a tissue or something. You know, just things that happen all the time and to acknowledge them..." — Sharon Van Etten (15:08)

• Leverage Familiar Faces: For Dylan, with many friends in the crowd, talking to people he knows onstage can become crowdwork—creating warmth and connection.

• Practical Solutions for Tuning Silence: Organize the setlist to minimize tuning breaks; let the band start without you if you need to tune.

5. Real-World Banter Analysis

• Mike and Sharon dissect Dylan’s awkward banter clips, identifying strengths (humanizing self-deprecating jokes) and weaknesses (over-explaining, lack of confidence, swearing at musical icons).

• They suggest focusing on song nuggets—a single meaningful detail—rather than whole stories if audience attention is at risk.

• Quote:

  "Maybe you felt that the hole you were digging was a little bigger than it was." — Mike Pesca (11:45)

6. Handling Promotion and Self-Promotion

• Sharon encourages balancing sincerity with necessary self-promotion—people can’t support you if they don’t know you’re making an album.
• Make promotion playful (“see how many photos you can take during this song!”) to diffuse tension.
• Dylan struggles with asking the audience for help or support, feeling bashful and unworthy.

7. The Heart of Connection: Worthiness and Vulnerability

• The discussion culminates in Sharon’s repeated reassurance to Dylan that “you are worthy”—a message that hits Dylan more profoundly than the practical tips.

• Quote:

  "You are worthy, though." — Sharon Van Etten (21:23)
  "The one takeaway that is still in my head... was, you are worthy. I thought it was gonna be sort of a funny yuck it up segment. And... she turned to me really earnestly and looked me in the eyes and said, 'You are worthy.' ...It was a lot more profound than I was expecting to experience." — Dylan Condor (24:46)

8. Retrospective: Did the Lessons Work?

• In a 2026 follow-up, Dylan reflects that the advice did not instantly change his life but helped him drop unnecessary armor, interact more honestly, and accept that it’s okay to care about performing HIS music.

• He notes that he learned to treat performance as a conversation with friends, not as an act with “mystique.”

• Quote:

  "When Sharon framed it as a conversation between me and a room full of people and we're on the same level... why don't I just skip to the vibes I would put out if I was having a drink at the bar with them?" — Dylan Condor (30:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Performer/Audience Barrier:

  "It's a room full of people that want to know you. If they don't know you." — Sharon Van Etten (08:40)

• On Self-Deprecation as Armor:

  "Maybe the self deprecation was an armor, a pose, a way to cope with the fact that you didn't think you were worthy..." — Mike Pesca (25:32)

• On Reading the Room:

  "Sometimes it's an older audience, sometimes it's kids, sometimes it's at a bar and people are drunk and rowdy. And how do you tame that? I mean, it really depends." — Sharon Van Etten (10:27)

• On Involving the Audience:

  "You can say you think you may have heard this song before. This is the new version of it. You tell me after the song if you recognize it or not, engage in that way too." — Sharon Van Etten (13:33)

• On Authenticity:

  "Just a willingness to drop the act that there's something cool and mystical going on and instead be like, hey, I'm here playing this song. I'm glad you want to hear my songs. I hope you like my songs." — Dylan Condor (31:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:34] — Dylan describes his struggles with stage confidence and banter.
• [07:53] — Sharon details her early stage fright and learning to converse with the crowd.
• [10:27] — Adapting banter to different audience types.
• [12:21] — Mike and Sharon critique Dylan’s banter clip.
• [13:05] — Sharon reframes nervousness as excitement.
• [14:32] — Dealing with irreverence and off-limits jokes in banter.
• [15:08] — Emergency banter moves (“If that’s my mom, tell her I'm not here").
• [17:47] — Sharon shares practical setlist advice to minimize banter pressure.
• [20:13] — Dylan’s discomfort with self-promotion; Sharon’s encouragement.
• [21:23] — Sharon tells Dylan, "You are worthy."
• [24:46] — Dylan reflects in 2026 on the long-term impact of Sharon’s reassurance.
• [30:20] — Dylan describes how viewing performance as a conversation improved his connection.
• [31:13] — Dropping the “rockstar” act for authenticity.

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Recap & Takeaways

• Stage Banter is Learnable: Even seasoned performers struggle. It’s okay to start awkwardly and grow.
• Authenticity Connects: Audiences want to meet the real person behind the music.
• Keep It Simple: A concise, honest remark beats rambling or forced bravado.
• Read the Room: Adjust your delivery based on who’s in front of you.
• It’s OK to Care: Embracing vulnerability and worthiness unlocks real connection.
• Promotion Isn’t a Sin: Share your excitement and your work—you owe it to your audience (and yourself).

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Final Memorable Quote

"You are worthy, though." — Sharon Van Etten (21:23)
"It was a lot more profound than I was expecting to experience." — Dylan Condor (24:46)

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For musicians, performers, or anyone whose work lands them in front of an audience: this episode is a deep, honest dive into breaking down barriers, sharing what matters, and doing it as your most authentic self.

Transcript

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[Dylan Condor]

I can't keep this up for much longer. I'm ready to cross the line. But how many ways can you say

that you're sorry for the things you can't undo?

[Mike Pesca]

This is Condor.

[Dylan Condor]

It's.

[Mike Pesca]

It's melodic, it's appealing, it invites you in. I love the horns. It's smooth without being saccharine. How would you describe it?

[Dylan Condor]

It's kind of coming from like a Steely Dan kind of neo soul inflected place.

[Mike Pesca]

And that voice you heard is also Condor.

[Dylan Condor]

I'm Dylan Condor. I'm a guitar player and orchestrator in New York. And 10, 12 years ago I had a band called Condor where my friends and I got together and played some songs I wrote.

[Mike Pesca]

So what was the high point of Condor? When did Condor go from fun indulgence, let's say, to something that stood up on its own. And I mean Condor the band, not Condor the man.

[Dylan Condor]

I think it was when I started getting comfortable and feeling like, okay, I can walk on stage and, you know, I never, I never feel like I got singing that together. But I got to a place where I'm like, okay, I can represent my songs and not, not be in my head the whole time. I've never been in my head as a guitar player can. Getting up there and singing in front of people and talking between songs and stuff was like, oh, I thought I was confident and it turns out I'm not. It was like when I took an improv class and realized, oh, I thought I was funny. But it turns out I'm, I'm not funny at all. I'm, I'm joking in front of a bunch of people.

[Mike Pesca]

Dylan Condor, the man who makes Condor eponymous, can play guitar like nobody's business. He's a veteran of Broadway pit orchestras. The other members of the band Condor are great, maybe even near legendary New York studio musicians. Dylan's proud of the songs, he's proud of the product, but there's one thing that's not clicking and maybe It's a different version of pride getting in his way. But the banter, the stage banter, what to say, how to say it, how to use the talking to add to and not apologize for the music.

[Dylan Condor]

I think that I had in my head that you were supposed to be a certain kind of charming and a certain kind of, hey, hey, guys. Like, I mean, I knew I was never going to be the like, are we having a good time? I can't hear you. You know that guy. But I was trying to find Elaine.

[Mike Pesca]

What about all the ladies? I mean, what if all the lad. If they're having a good time, imagine just leaving them out of the polling.

[Dylan Condor]

Yes. Yeah, I only want to hear from the men here.

[Mike Pesca]

Where the fellas at?

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, where are my fellas at? Hey, fellas, you ever notice, you know, whatever. I thought that there was just some sort of mold to follow.

[Mike Pesca]

So Dylan does the most logical thing. He tweets at a podcaster.

[Dylan Condor]

You had a certain kind of like, hey, this is my deal. You had a confidence and like a swagger and just that, like, you know, laser fast banter thing that I was like, yeah, maybe Mike could give me banter lessons, you know, But I think I was half joking in my tweet. And then your producer reached out and says, like, oh, we want to do a. We want to do a segment where we have someone coach you on your banter. And I thought, oh, man, he must be really, you know, slow Newsweek or something, you know.

[Mike Pesca]

So what I did was I thought of the position of banter mentor, and I further decided that this bantor mentor should not be me. It should be an actual professional musician who was good at this. The singer, songwriter, performer Sharon Van Etten. When the program continues. Yes, Sharon Van Etten joins and we tune in to the results of her session with Condor.

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[Sharon Van Etten]

In the ocean waves all around and the smashing down Take my hand, shut your eyes and hope you.

[Mike Pesca]

This what you are hearing is singer Songwriter Sharon Van Etten song is called Just Like Blood. It's from the new EP I Don't Want To Let yout Down.

[Sharon Van Etten]

And.

[Mike Pesca]

And sorry, Sharon Van Etten fans. That's the last we'll hear from her singing, but she's sitting next to me. Hello, Sharon.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Hiya.

[Mike Pesca]

How you doing?

[Sharon Van Etten]

I'm great. How are you doing?

[State Farm Announcer]

I'm good.

[Mike Pesca]

Let's hear a little of an up and coming artist. Young kid, new on the block. His name's Dylan Condor. His band is Condor. Here's a song called Hostage.

[Sharon Van Etten]

What you're used to that I can't refuse you.

[Dylan Condor]

You can't will this heart of mine to break.

[Mike Pesca]

And Condor's Dylan Condor is here too. Next to me. Next to Sharon. Hello, Dylan.

[Dylan Condor]

Hey.

[Mike Pesca]

And fans of the Condor, I apologize to you too. We're not going to hear the dude sing at all. In fact, we're not here for the singing portion of musicality. We're for the talking portion. Dylan, you got in touch with me with an interesting request. As I remember.

[Dylan Condor]

Tell.

[Mike Pesca]

Tell the audience what you reached out in asking.

[Dylan Condor]

I was listening to one of your spiels, I forget which one. And it occurred to me that I'd had a few shows in a row where I came off stage and thought the music went great and the banter went terribly bad. Banter, Bad banter. And I noted that your elocution style is very snappy and quick. So I think I tweeted something at you like, you inspire me to improve

[Mike Pesca]

my banter y egoist immediately. I said to myself, I'm gonna. I'm gonna Cyrano de Bergerac the kid. He'll have a little thing in his ear, maybe Bluetooth technology, and I'll tell him what to say. But then I said, who am I to do it? How much stage banter have I done? Forget me. Let's pull in what I call a bantor mentor. And that's you, Sharon. I have heard that you're excellent at the bantor.

[Sharon Van Etten]

I have been working on it for a little while, but you can always have a miss, you know.

[Mike Pesca]

But I think when you get. When one gets into music, it would seem to me one of the. That one thinks of. It's like, all right, I'm gonna write my songs. I'm gonna play my instrument. I'm gonna be good at that. I'm gonna even work on my live performance. And then it's like, holy shit, what about the stuff I say in between or beforehand? Seems like the last thing you ever even think of.

[Sharon Van Etten]

It can be pretty intense when you're tuning guitar. And then it's just the silence on stage and the people looking at you to say something really clever.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah. The multitasking. And there's a desire to be clever, but also authentic. I don't wanna sound like I wrote shtick. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

But, Sharon, if we charted your career, if we saw tapes of you early on, were you less good at stage banter than your fans tell me you are?

[Sharon Van Etten]

I was terrible.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Sharon Van Etten]

You know, I mean, it started off like, you know, I had severe social anxiety moving to New York. And I started playing solo classical guitar in front of bar crowds. And that is like a sitcom waiting to happen anyway, you know, But I had a haircut where I purposely. My hair was in my face. And I just got a little whiskey drunk and would. And every now and then I would yell at people. But then, you know, I would say one or two things that I felt like my music summed it up to see what people thought. Because I really, at the time, thought my goal was to make people cry. And so I would tell. I'm going to make you cry. I want to make you cry. But that was all I would ever be able to say. But then it started. I played a place called Zebulon a lot RIP In Brooklyn, which was one of my favorite places. And they had a very intimate crowd. And half of the room used to be with my friends or my families. And you could actually talk to people. And I felt like that's where I started learning how to engage people and have it feel more of a conversation where you're all on the same level, as opposed to you're the performer and they're the audience. It's a room full of people that want to know you. If they don't know you.

[Mike Pesca]

That seems also, I would say, to fit in with your style. Right. If you're glam, rocking out at an arena, you can't do that. But also, you wouldn't want to do that.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Right. Cause you have this image. But, you know, that's one thing I'm still learning how to be as an adult is myself. And letting people know who I am is that it's all part of it.

[Mike Pesca]

So, Dylan, how. I know you want to get better, but have you lit upon any strategies? Do you pre write? Do you think about a patter about what a song means to you that you try to say every time?

[Dylan Condor]

The last gig, I thought of a few things that would be easy to be off the cuff with while tuning.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, here's the thing, if you pre think about things that are easy to be off the cuff with, that's not being off the cuff.

[Dylan Condor]

Right. To simulate off the cuff. But as far as talking about what the songs mean to me, Sharon, do you find that really, like, a tough nut to crack?

[Sharon Van Etten]

I'm still figuring it out. Cause some people love it, and some people are like, let's talk more rock. Which that gets really annoying. But sometimes people really want to know. And again, it's knowing your audience, because I feel like that changes every night. And it takes me probably until mid set to really get to their energy. And then you can see, am I serious or do I start joking? And I think there's two different kinds of banter, too.

[Mike Pesca]

And so will one show be, like, mostly jokey banter? How do you decide what the mood is?

[Sharon Van Etten]

Well, what you're getting back from people. You know, sometimes they, you know, they're seated and, you know, sometimes it's an older audience, sometimes it's kids, sometimes it's at a bar and people are drunk and rowdy. And how do you tame that? I mean, it really depends.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, I think I have a leg up that 60% of my crowds are still my Facebook friends. So the crowd work thing would be pretty easy as a way to connect with the audience since I'm already connected to a lot of them.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Because you were just saying you had a show that you felt like it was your worst banter yet or something. Tell me again. I'm sorry.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, the time that I tweeted at Mike was after a particularly bad show, and I actually sent them some clips masochistically.

[Mike Pesca]

All right, let's play a clip. Let's diagnose it. Bantermanter.

[Dylan Condor]

It's one of the better arrangements of one of my songs that we have. So naturally I was like, well, let's just do a different arrangement. I'm a malcontent. I don't. Something's good. I'm like, okay, how can I fuck with this now? In all areas of my life, oversharing,

[Mike Pesca]

there was a gem. There was a germ in there that if you had been succinct and gotten out and been a little more self confident, they'd have gone with you. But maybe you felt that the hole you were digging was a little bigger than it was. What do you think, Sharon?

[Sharon Van Etten]

Yeah, I think that's a song that you're gonna be able to learn how to talk about better as you go. I mean, I think what they were responding to was your Self deprec, which also humanizes you, which I think is a good thing. And that's maybe why they ended up responding like that.

[Dylan Condor]

It's quite possible I overdo the self deprecation. It's kind of a default. Even that just now is a self deprecating remark, wasn't it?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, it could be terse over length, you know, if you go in saying, I don't know, might this work? I'm going to say two sentences max about every song. Would that be at least for, you know, the first time where you try to, you know, up your banter game? Might that be a good exercise?

[Sharon Van Etten]

Definitely. Yeah, sure. Right to the point. And it helps you formulate your own thoughts on it.

[Dylan Condor]

Sure. And that could be something I preconceived because it would not take away from the authenticity.

[Mike Pesca]

So let's talk about that song that you were leading up to. What song was it?

[Dylan Condor]

It was a song of mine called Fool. We typically do it very rock ish. And this time I arranged it sort of as chamber music with some woodwinds and stuff. And I think I was a little bit nervous about how that arrangement would come off.

[Sharon Van Etten]

You can express your nervousness as excitement, you know, but it can be like a nervous excitement and just say, this is new and I'm trying it for you. We wanted to do something special today. Who knows?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sharon Van Etten]

What's gonna happen?

[Mike Pesca]

Or wait, tell me the name of the song again.

[Dylan Condor]

Fool.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, so I don't know if you guys know the song. Fool, you said 60% of your audience, your Facebook friend.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yes.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Woo.

[Mike Pesca]

We know.

[State Farm Announcer]

Fool.

[Mike Pesca]

All right, work with me here. This is gonna be a risk, but we're all part of it together. Something like that. Right? The audience has stakes.

[Sharon Van Etten]

You can say you think you may have heard this song before. This is the new version of it. You tell me after the song if you recognize it or not engage in that way too.

[Mike Pesca]

That is good. All right, let's hear another clip and let's tear Condor a new one.

[Dylan Condor]

They only get worse from here, I think.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, good. That was the hard voice.

[Dylan Condor]

Oh, right. This is one of mine. Paul Simon's cool. But you know, I wrote this. Fuck Paul Simon. He isn't here, is he? That'd be both mortifying and like still kind of like awesome and worth it. Worth that. I just put my foot in my mouth. Cause he'd still like be here hearing me play, so whatever. So I suppose some off limits things like telling your musical heroes to fuck off mid set would probably be like a Good ground rule, right? I don't know. Sharon, have you ever told anyone to fuck off?

[Sharon Van Etten]

Totally. Yeah. And then I put my drink down and then I look to my guitar player Doug, to save me a little bit. I'm like, hey, you guys, did you just say something? Did you call? It's good to look to them sometimes, you know, it helps to not feel like you're the only one up there responsible for it too.

[Dylan Condor]

Sure. I think maybe there's a desire to be irreverent in a way that can get a rise out of the crowd if I want the energy to come up. But again, I think insulting my musical heroes is not a good go to. Probably.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, should he prescript?

[Sharon Van Etten]

I don't know. I have emergencies. If it's really quiet, I hear somebody's phone ring, I'll say, if that's my mom, tell her I'm not here.

[Dylan Condor]

Nice, nice.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Or if somebody sneezes, I'll say bless you or need a tissue or something. You know, just like things that happen all the time and to acknowledge them if you're tuning or just something's weird.

[Mike Pesca]

The interesting thing, Sharon, that you were saying is like, like you started out and as in Dylan's situation, people who kind of know you and so you were talking to them. I think that's a technique you could use. And were you talking to them? Joel, my producer here was saying that he saw a show and you were literally having a conversation with your mom. I think my mom's here at one point. And then you would say things that people got on your side cause your mom was there so you could talk about a family member or a friend, Dylan, who's there. That could be cool.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah.

[Sharon Van Etten]

And like Gino, when you're standing there too, you usually notice some people up front, whether you know them or they have it a personality to them and you know, have a few people that they're like, okay, they're gonna be easy to talk to.

[Dylan Condor]

Sure.

[Sharon Van Etten]

You know, and that, that could start, it could backfire, but it could be the beginning of having some kind of connection.

[Dylan Condor]

That strikes me as a good. While tuning emergency move to beat that awkward silence.

[Mike Pesca]

Maybe we're missing the big elephant in the room. Maybe you need to tune your guitar less.

[Dylan Condor]

Uh huh.

[Mike Pesca]

How often does it come out of tune?

[Dylan Condor]

You know, I get kind of anal retentive. For most of my career. I've been a side man, I've been everybody else's guitarist. So I'm very used to being meticulous and the sort of triage of where to split my mental energy. It's taken me a long time to let the guitar fall a little by the wayside so I can think about being a frontman.

[Mike Pesca]

How often will you two retune your guitar during a show?

[Sharon Van Etten]

Well, it depends. We still. We try to get the set in an order where I don't have to put the capo on so much. Cause that makes it go out of tune way more so usually the first three songs. And this again, this is my bandmate. Doug. Keith is a great coach, but he's like, first three songs, let's just get him out of the way, get comfortable, get the crowd warmed up. Don't do anything that you have to tune right away because you lose your momentum that way.

[Mike Pesca]

Very first song, will you say something to precede it or will you just break right into the song?

[Sharon Van Etten]

I've been trying not to and it's helped, actually trying not to say anything. So maybe about second or third song, depending on how it goes. Then that's when you can say, thanks for being here. Blah, blah, blah. This is. And then you can introduce the next song and give yourself a moment, you know? Or even like if you have to tune, then figure out a song where the rest of the band starts without you.

[Dylan Condor]

Oh, sure.

[Sharon Van Etten]

And then you can tune if you're just waiting for a minute so you don't have to talk.

[Dylan Condor]

Sure.

[Mike Pesca]

Maybe there's also a story about a nugget, about a detail of how or why you wrote the song. Like one. Not the whole story, but one detail or nugget. You ever do that?

[Sharon Van Etten]

I've done that. I've done, you know, what it was like in the studio, how it's changed lives.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, that's cool. People will love that.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Yeah. You know, something that again, makes them feel special for, like, for being there. You're sharing why they would come to a show as opposed to listening to your record.

[Dylan Condor]

Uh huh. All right. I'm not gonna introduce this one because y' all probably know it. I'm gonna just quickly say all this shit. We're on Facebook. Facebook.com TheBandCondor you can follow me on Twitter. Ylan Condor. Dylan spelled the Matt Dylan Wade Condor with a K. I don't know fucking how great's this band?

Right?

Thank you all for coming.

We're gonna take a break from live

shows and make an album. So surely I'll bother the shit out of you on Facebook and whatnot about pre order and help me fund it, Whatever. All right, cool.

[Mike Pesca]

Matt, your stage banter is like a David Foster Wallace novel. I mean, it's got notations and it's got footnotes and there's the meta conversation going on.

[Dylan Condor]

I'm a big DFW fan.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Dylan Condor]

Oh, God.

[Mike Pesca]

So do you do that? You gotta give a plug to social media.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Oh, yeah, you've got to a little bit. But I make a joke about it saying, let's see how many take it. You know, take as many photos as you can during this song and see how many. How many posts we can get just to get it out of their systems or.

[Dylan Condor]

Right. So you're half serious.

[Sharon Van Etten]

I'm half serious.

[Dylan Condor]

Right, yeah. That's clever. I mean, the thing about the self promotion thing is I started this band because the hired gun, freelance guitar sideman thing has been, you know, I've been lucky that that's been a source of a career for me. So this has been just a labor of love to see if my songs work to connect more to music in general. Obviously I'd like to reach more people, but I'm not in much of a hurry. I don't know if that's a thing

to say on the radio.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Well, no, that's a hard. But it's a hard thing to do whatever you really want from it. You know, just to ask people for money.

[Dylan Condor]

I feel pretty bashful about that.

[Sharon Van Etten]

But you're creating something that people obviously appreciate and you're creating it and you want to make an album because you want to share it with them in a different way that they can hold onto. That's something they'd be excited about. So if they don't know about it, if you don't talk about it, they won't know about it. Obviously. Things I don't need to tell you,

[Dylan Condor]

and yet it seems you do need to tell me this stuff.

[Mike Pesca]

But just remember, these are people who are in a room. The commitment of taking time out of their day and going to a room and paying the money and watching for hours is so much less of a commitment than following someone on Facebook or even listening online. So if any audience would be receptive to that, it's literally the audience there in front of you.

[Dylan Condor]

I don't think I lack confidence in the material. It's more confidence in whether I can get people on board with how much I like the material.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Yeah. If that makes sense. You are worthy, though.

[Dylan Condor]

Thank you, Sharon.

[Sharon Van Etten]

And everyone has their own audience. And he's right. It's right there in front of you. And it is weird to ask, but you'll get over that because people want to figure out how to help you.

[Dylan Condor]

Oh, well, that's very encouraging. Thank you for that.

[Mike Pesca]

And in a minute, we will debrief with Dylan after being sent into the field to put the Bantor mentor's lessons to work when our program continues.

[Dylan Condor]

If what you said was true,

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[Dylan Condor]

nothing I can do.

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[Dylan Condor]

Close your eyes.

[Sharon Van Etten]

Exhale.

[Dylan Condor]

Feel your body relax and let go

[Sharon Van Etten]

of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Dylan Condor]

And breathe.

[Sharon Van Etten]

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[Dylan Condor]

Yeah.

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[Mike Pesca]

We're back with Condor himself, Dylan Condor of Condor. Dylan Condor is Condor. That's what they always used to say about Jean Claude Van Damme, right? He is on deadly ground. And so we're reflecting on the banter lessons that you got. I thought Sharon was great. Great. But there's one thing that we should say right now. The top of the show today and what you're hearing right now, that was taped five minutes ago. But the entire Bantor mentor session that you just heard, that happened in June of 2015. So it's an 11 year anniversary coming up very soon. But I did realize that that episode where Sharon and Dylan got together, which I recorded for the gist is an almost perfect how to. And seeing how that lesson was put into play, which I never followed up with, that brings it to the place of a truly perfect how to. So, Dylan, who is here in 2026, do you remember right after that session that we just heard what you were thinking and did you take any of that and put that into practice?

[Dylan Condor]

The one takeaway that is still in my head of what Sharon said to me was, you are worthy. I thought it was gonna be sort of a funny yuck it up segment. And, you know, it mostly was. But she turned to me really earnestly and looked me in the eyes and said, you are worthy. And I was like, you know, it's that moment where you don't realize how much you're carrying and how much stakes. It felt like, oh, let me tweet it, let me tweet it, Mike. It'd be a funny, you know, on a lark, it'd be a funny thing. And go on his show and talk about not being funny enough on stage. And then I was like, wow, maybe I don't feel worthy and maybe, maybe I am worthy. You know, it was, it was a lot more, a lot, a lot more profound than I was expecting to experience. And I, Yeah, I don't know if immediately that took hold.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, let me just interrupt to say because.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, please.

[Mike Pesca]

As you were saying, you know, a lot of your personality or what you tried to bring to the stage was a little sarcastic or a little self deprecating. But looking back, maybe the self deprecation was an armor, a pose, a acknowledgement that, a way to cope with the fact that you didn't think that you were worthy of, I don't know what, the audience being a rock star, something like that. Cause, you know, you're confident in your music ability.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, for sure. You know, and even hearing myself talk on your show about it, and you're like, well, were you hoping to be famous? I'm like, no, no, of course not. Because, you know, I didn't get famous doing that. And I hung it up a few years after because I, you know, I kept having my career as a music for hire. And then I got a wife and kids. And, you know, if I said to my wife, I'm starting my band again right now, she'd just, you know, look at me like I'm crazy. But there was an eagerness to show everyone, like, hey, I know that, like, we're at the Mercury lounge and there's 18 of you and I'm not trying to. I'm not hoping to be the next John Mayer. I'm just doing this on a lark. And I think that maybe, like you say, that was an armor about, you know, the reason I was doing it was I wrote these songs that felt vulnerable and felt like putting an aspect of myself that's usually not there when I just play guitar for someone or arrange music for someone. And I think it was really important to me to do that. Whether it was a money making or fame causing endeavor, I had something I wanted to share with the world that I was proud of. And I think, yeah, the vulnerability aspect was maybe the part that came later.

[Mike Pesca]

So did Sharon Van Etten literally instill you with confidence in that moment? Did she change the trajectory of your life?

[Dylan Condor]

Probably not. Damn it. I know, I know. You really want like a good. A good kicker for your segment. No, I don't know. I mean, it was cool when Sharon, who I had become an admirer of her music. And after you told me that this lady, Sharon Von Etten was gonna coach me, I should probably go check her out. No, but yeah, that she turned to me and said, you're. And I realized after hearing it that it was something I did need to hear and it was something maybe I wasn't totally confident in. I don't know if she changed my life because the story should be. And then he got famous doing his Steely Dan, Radiohead inflected shoegaze, pop rock, but I didn't.

[Mike Pesca]

Obviously the social milieu was ripe for that, but to interrupt, I don't think it has to be. I mean, if we're doing behind the Music. Yeah, but if the revelation is just, you know, it landed with me and changed me in a little way or made me look at one aspect of my life and improved it, or made me work on it or made me realize something, that's great.

[Dylan Condor]

Embracing that I was doing it because I wanted to share something. And, you know, getting. Losing that sort of affect of like, hey, I know this is just kind of a silly, you know, you want to come to my show and. Same reason I never promoted my stuff. I just kind of like, you know, people would be like, you're not. You had a show last night. You didn't even. I didn't know it was happening. I'm like, yeah, well, you know, I don't want to. It's like, okay, but you do need to tell people about your shows. If you are doing a performance in public, your friends should probably be aware of it. So, yeah, admitting that that was something that I did care about. Yeah. I think that Sharon saying you are worthy was a pivot for sure.

[Mike Pesca]

So of all the things, of all the practical things and the lessons, that insight had landed the most profoundly. Did it change how you did the show at all?

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, I do remember that I would get on mic and drop the kind of, you know, whatever, mumbling, self deprecating stuff. I think in one of the clips I was doing like a Paul Simon cover and then I said, like Paul Simon on, you know, on Mike. And I think there was like a, you know, oh, let me try my hand at being irreverent. Let me, you know, and I think I dropped a lot of that stuff and just said, hey, here's a song I wrote, you know, and

[Mike Pesca]

by a talented songwriter. In fact, he's from Queens.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, Big fan. I mean, you know, I think that was. That was maybe the joke I was going for is like at the Zoo

[Mike Pesca]

and all the other songs.

[Dylan Condor]

Yes. Yeah. I need a. Maybe that's what I need is a Garfunkel. I need to be the little. The little dwarven wizard with some just, you know, pretty voice next to me. If you find any Garfunkels, you know, send them my way.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, your hair is like a third of the way there, but it's a Garfunkel.

[Dylan Condor]

The Jewfro. Yeah, the Jew.

[Mike Pesca]

You don't have the perm.

[Dylan Condor]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

And what about some of the other stuff you talk about, aside from the installation of confidence, anything else that you remember taking with you on stage, trying out on stage, affecting your stage performance?

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah. When Sharon framed it as a conversation between me and a room full of people and we're on the same level, that idea, I think, is something that, you know, it's especially contrived for me to think otherwise because I was playing these tiny shows for mostly my friends or if they're not my buddies, if there are people don't know me, they're people. Ten minutes later I'm gonna be having a drink at the bar with. So why don't I just skip to the vibes I would put out if I was having a drink at the bar with them?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And another thing, well, you asked and she identified with was the whole. As far as what the songs mean to me, do you find that a tough nut to crack? And she said she did. Cause some people like the story of the songs and some people want, as she says, more rock, more rock, less talk. So I don't know. Did you do anything with the part where you talk about the meaning of the songs or the derivation and origin of the songs.

[Dylan Condor]

Just a willingness to drop the act that there's something cool and mystical going on and instead be like, hey, I'm here playing this song. I'm glad you want to hear my songs. I hope you like my songs. You know, that being willing to say songs, something to that effect between songs, and drop the pretense that I'm some kind of rock star trying to impress everyone, I think was helpful.

[Mike Pesca]

Another thing that she said, or you were talking about a song you did called fool, and you do it very rockish. But this time you arranged it as chamber music and you were a little bit nervous. And then Sharon said you could express your nervousness as excitement. You could talk about it being a nervous excitement and say, this is new, we're trying it for. You wanted to do something special. I thought that was great advice. I don't know if you used it.

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, I think a willingness to say, hey, this is important to me and I'm nervous to be doing it and project that to an audience. I found that a lot more that had a much more reception than people were actually willing to kind of look up from their drinks and listen to what I was doing. Because I had stakes in it. I cared about it. I wasn't pretending not to care about it. So that made them care about it.

[Mike Pesca]

I love that. So this is how I outroed you at the time. Dylan Condor will be performing at the Bowery Electric Main Room opening for Laura Cantrell on July 12th at 7pm Sharon Vanetten will be performing at the sold out Governor's Ball Music Festival.

[Dylan Condor]

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I mean, look, Death Becomes her is selling well. You know, I'm involved in things that do well. I'm just not the guy on the marquee.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, but without you, without the guitar riffs on those classic Death Becomes her songs, who would even see the show?

[Dylan Condor]

Yeah, I agree. Anytime I play an extra lick or something, I turn to the music director and say, we're trying to sell tickets, aren't we?

[Mike Pesca]

You know, Dylan Condor is a performer, an arranger, a songwriter, and for many, many years he's been a mainstay of Broadway pits. He's now playing on Death Becomes Her. And if you name a Broadway show, he probably knows it and has played on it. And of course, the hardcore fans will forever remember his musical ensemble, sort of a freeform, experimental mope rock, Radiohead inflected experiment called Condor.

[Dylan Condor]

Still on Bandcamp I stopped paying to have it on Spotify and stuff, but you can still find it on Bandcamp.

[Mike Pesca]

Dylan, thanks so much. If you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and a review. We do need your questions. We do need your how to questions. Specifically, do you need to make an apology? I have an excellent a psychologically advanced expert on apologies at hand. If you've been reticent to ask how do I take the perfect poop? We have that expert to email us at how to ikepeska.com oh, also, let's say you're a fella who wants to dress a little better. You're getting into the job market. I got the person for you. And on my other show, the Gist, my daily show tomorrow, we're talking with Holly Buck. She's a professor of sustainability and the environment, and she's looking at data centers and saying moratoria, that's the plural on them, not only won't work but will be counterproductive. Check out the Gist. Holly's on tomorrow, A great interview.

[Sharon Van Etten]

A pause on new data centers isn't really going to slow the progress of AI because because we still have a bunch of data centers. What it's going to do is make it more difficult for ordinary people, small businesses, researchers, to access AI.

[Mike Pesca]

How to is produced by Jeff Craig and Cory Warra. Michel Pesca puts the can do in How To. Charles Duhigg founded the show, and when he performed how to before a live festival crowd opening for Fog Hat, he faced familiar heckles. Let's talk more Rock was caught inside a classic rock block of his own making. I'm Mike Pesca, back in a week with more questions of How To.