How to Feel Good in Your Clothes

Summary

Podcast Summary: How To! with Mike Pesca — How to Feel Good in Your Clothes

Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Projects)
Guest: Michael Kozo (retired FDNY captain), Tavia Sharp (executive image and personal brand strategist)

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Overview: Main Theme

This episode delves into the often-overlooked yet highly relatable struggle of finding confidence and comfort in the clothes we wear, particularly after major life transitions. Through the lens of Michael Kozo, a retired firefighter navigating post-uniform style and confidence, host Mike Pesca and style expert Tavia Sharp explore practical, psychological, and industry-driven challenges men face in updating their wardrobes, embracing personal style, and cultivating a functional, flattering closet.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Struggle With Clothes After a Career of Uniforms

• Michael’s Dilemma:
  • After retiring, Michael canceled a date because he couldn't decide what to wear ([00:00], [03:02]).
  • Years of wearing uniforms left him with little experience or confidence in casual or social dressing.
• Cluttered, Outdated Closet:
  • Michael possessed many clothes but hadn’t culled old, ill-fitting items; post-retirement weight loss made fit even trickier ([03:39]).
  • The psychological weight of not knowing what to wear sometimes led to avoiding events altogether.

2. Challenges of Fit for Shorter Men

• Sizing Struggles:
  • At 5'4", 152lbs, standard sizing (S, M, L) rarely fits well—sleeves, shirt lengths, and cut are all off ([04:20]).
• Tailoring as an Option:
  • Tailoring adds significant cost and complexity, creating a barrier for men whose bodies fall outside standard fits ([05:13]-[05:49]).

3. Male Fashion Anxiety and Social Pressure

• Societal Expectations:
  • Fashion is often seen as a “burden” or “afterthought” for men ([00:14]), but failing to meet standards can communicate neglect.
  • Generational differences: Many men are stuck in the aesthetics of their teens/20s—illustrated by baggy '90s silhouettes ([06:18], [08:25]).
• Psychology of Dressing:
  • The 'boy-to-man' transition in style is often hampered by lack of knowledge and misperceptions about “mature” attire ([15:44], [25:08], [25:16]).

4. Inside Sizing, Industry Practice, and “Capsule Wardrobe”

• Expert Input from Tavia Sharp:
  • Sizing: Most brands base sizing on a handful of “fit models” with atypically “fit” physiques ([09:30]-[11:14]).
  • Vanity Sizing: Exists in menswear, not just women’s—labels don’t always match actual fit ([11:28]).
  • Brand Differences: Each brand serves a different body type/aesthetic; consistency within and across brands is unreliable ([11:55], [13:21]).
  • Capsule Wardrobe:
    • Small set (about 15) of mix-and-match basics suited for one’s real lifestyle ([13:41]).
    • “Everyone’s capsule is different because it depends on your lifestyle and your needs” —Tavia Sharp ([09:30]).
• Shop In-Store, Not Just Online:
  • In-person shopping is better for learning fit; online overwhelms with options and causes return fatigue ([19:26]).

5. Personal Style Identification

• Discovering Your Style:
  • Few people have a clear, conscious sense of their style ([15:01]).
  • Strategy: Choose three adjectives that describe how you want to be seen (e.g., mature, successful, confident) and build outfits accordingly ([16:59], [24:44]).
  • Use celebrities, Pinterest, or Instagram as inspiration, analyzing what specifically appeals about their looks ([16:59]).

6. Clearing Out and Refreshing the Wardrobe

• Closet Reset:
  • Physically pull out, try on, and evaluate every garment; ask, "Would I buy this today? Does it fit my three words?" ([23:17]).
  • Menswear can last longer; tailoring can be worthwhile for high-quality basics ([24:11]).
  • Be wary of outdated trends (e.g., excessively pleated pants, large logo polos) ([24:28], [26:19], [26:38]).

7. The Role of Store Staff and Professional Stylists

• Retail Experience:
  • In-store “stylists” are often sales-driven ([21:26]).
  • Department stores like Nordstrom offer free styling/personal shopping; independent stylists ($50+/hour) dig deeper, including home closet audits ([22:39]).

8. Navigating Color Palettes

• Stick to Neutrals:
  • For men, start with navies, blacks, grays, tans; add mild accent colors (purple, green, pink) cautiously based on complexion ([28:59]).
  • Overly detailed color systems (16 seasons) are “a lot of effort”—keep it simple ([28:59]).
  • “[A] nice lavender looks great” —Tavia Sharp ([30:04]).

9. Age-Appropriate Casual Dressing

• Avoid “Boys to Men” Syndrome:
  • Favor quality, well-fitted basics over “youthful” logos or casualwear ([15:44], [26:19], [26:52]).
  • “Could it be a better quality polo? Could it be a better fabric?” —Tavia Sharp ([25:38]).
• Polos vs. Button-Downs:
  • In business settings, opt for dressier polos over short-sleeved button-downs ([27:26]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Fashion Anxiety on Display:
  • “I had a date not long after I retired, and I'm looking in the closet. I can't figure out what to wear, and I end up canceling the date.” —Michael Kozo ([00:00], [03:02])
• The Reality of Sizing:
  • “I always wondered how it is that you could go to a store ... and there's just a basic, small, medium, large, extra small, extra large. And that's supposed to fit this, like, huge... population... I just. I don't get it.” —Michael ([04:20])
  • “Everyone is different. We're not all fit models.... So we have to find the brands that work for us. And fit is number one.” —Tavia ([09:30])
• On Personal Style:
  • “People don’t know like, what is my style, what is my sense of style? ... We figure it out together.” —Tavia ([15:01])
  • “Just ask yourself, what are three words that you want to best describe yourself? And how would you go about, like, dressing as that version of yourself?” —Tavia ([16:59])
• Closet Clean-Out:
  • “Go in there. You got to literally pull things out one by one ... would I buy this today? ... If it's a no, it's got to go.” —Tavia ([23:17])
• Male Fashion Stereotypes:
  • “The other big trend with men... it's the boys to men, men who are still dressing like boys.” —Mike ([15:44])
• Skepticism About Store “Stylists”:
  • “Just because it sounds good and it makes the person want to work at that store because they're thinking, oh yeah, I'm getting a stylist in the store. Again, that's not to say everybody's like that, but I do think they're there to sell.” —Tavia ([21:38])
• On Color Choices:
  • “I find that that's a lot of effort, and it takes... it's a lot with the seasons and all. I think for men, you should just stick to having your basic neutrals...” —Tavia ([28:59])

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00 – 03:16: Michael’s struggle after retirement, canceling a date over not knowing what to wear.
• 03:16 – 06:36: Clothing fit issues, impact of past fashion trends, psychological toll.
• 08:01 – 09:30: Tavia Sharp introduced; general fit and style philosophy.
• 09:30 – 14:17: Sizing realities, fashion industry inside info, introduction to a “capsule wardrobe.”
• 15:01 – 16:51: Discovering personal style; using three descriptive words.
• 16:51 – 19:26: Practical steps for improving style, importance of in-person shopping.
• 21:26 – 22:55: Retail styling advice, cost of professional stylists.
• 23:17 – 24:44: Closet purge tactics, how to decide what to keep.
• 25:08 – 26:38: Dressing age-appropriately, dangers of “boys to men” style.
• 27:10 – 29:56: Color palette complexity, practical advice for men’s colors.
• 30:51 – 32:26: The comparative frustrations of online vs. in-store shopping.
• 32:26 – 32:46: Closing thanks and episode wrap-up.

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Takeaways & Practical Advice

1. Prioritize Fit and Fabric

Try on clothes in-person when possible, focus on finding brands that match your body type. Don’t rely solely on sizing labels.

2. Define Your Style With Three Words

Choose three adjectives representing how you want to be seen (e.g., mature, confident, approachable) and audit your closet accordingly.

3. Create a Capsule Wardrobe

Assemble a core group of basics in complementary colors that can mix and match for multiple settings.

4. Cull Your Closet Ruthlessly

Try on every item, ask, “Would I buy this now?” Keep only the pieces that fit your current style, shape, and desired image.

5. Don’t Fear Tailoring (But Be Strategic)

Tailor essential or high-quality items to prolong their life and improve fit; replace if more cost-effective.

6. Use Neutral Foundations, Add Color Thoughtfully

Start with basic, versatile colors; add subdued accent shades based on skin tone. Don’t overthink elaborate palette systems.

7. Seek Inspiration and Guidance

Use visual platforms to find style role models; get feedback from friends or professionals if stuck.

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This episode demystifies the journey to feeling good in what you wear, offering listeners a roadmap of practical steps, mindset shifts, and insider knowledge—reminding us that style, at its core, is about intention and self-respect.

Transcript

[A]

When this whole thing started, that's how it began. I had a date not long after I retired, and I'm looking in the closet. I can't figure out what to wear, and I end up canceling the date.

[B]

Clothing, it's our expression, it's our armor, it's our obligation. But for so many of us, it's a burden. And if you're a guy, maybe it's something like an afterthought or a complication to the things of real substance. And at the very least, clothes communicate that. I have given some attention to this. The first thing that you're noticing now that I'm bald, I have to say my flowing mane. It used to do that, but now I have to bowl people over with my clothes. There's probably nothing that causes more stress than how we dress, what to wear, how to wear it. So today we're looking into how to dress better or how to cultivate a closet or how to not fight with your clothes. Let's meet our first contestant.

[A]

My name is Michael Kozo. I'm a retired FDNY captain and just looking to improve my appearance.

[B]

I want to ask you about being a former FDNY guy that pretty much dictated what you wore to the job because it had to be heavy, flame retardant, and keep you safe. Right.

[A]

Day in and day out. We wore the same uniform all the time, so there was no thought process to do.

[B]

Right. And what about just casually, when you weren't going to work? What was dressing like for you back when you were working, when you were on the job?

[A]

In all honesty, I didn't put much thought into it. I had a few outfits that I would just go to every time and didn't really give it much thought, to be honest.

[B]

Right. Because I don't know, how often were you dressing for something other than either, you know, going to the firehouse or hanging out with friends or when were you really needing to wear something that was special?

[C]

Right.

[A]

I would go on, like, an occasional dinner or something like that, you know, or wedding or something. And other than that, really nothing.

[B]

Like two suits, two kind of nice casual outfits. And you were done?

[A]

Pretty much, yeah.

[B]

And then I'm laughing, but that's my ideal, basically. And when did you do the shopping for those and how often did you refresh online?

[A]

I would do the shopping for the most part. Never really went into the stores. And the refresh, I would say if it was like every six months, I would say that's a lot.

[B]

Oh, okay. So that's not Bad. I mean, I have some things that I try to pretend are still in fashion that I've been wearing for years. Well, what about now? Take me up to the present. What are your clothing needs these days?

[A]

Whether it's just to hang out, hang around or go. Dinners, a lot of, you know, events, weddings, things like that still. So a lot more social dress than uniform.

[B]

The first time you did this and you wore what's called the dress uniform with the hat and everything, you realized that was not the right call on a date.

[A]

That wasn't. It wasn't doing it.

[B]

You call it a dress uniform, but it really. Unless you're at a parade, it's a little weird.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're a single man and you're going on dates sometimes. And is that the most daunting thing to look good on dates?

[A]

Daunting. As a matter of fact, when this whole thing started, that's how it began. I had a date not long after I retired, and I'm looking in the closet. I can't figure out what to wear, and I end up canceling the date. I ended up not even going because I couldn't. I couldn't figure it out.

[B]

Wow. Here I am with this picture of you as this, like, tough fireman. And essentially, you're behaving like the comic strip character Kathy. Okay. So you're staring in front of your closet, and what's the issue? Take me there. Is it that, oh, nothing fits? Or is it that nothing's good enough? Or is it that I don't know what goes together? What are you thinking about?

[A]

How.

[B]

How was your closet not working for you in that moment?

[A]

In all honesty, it was a combination of all of the above. I'm looking at a closet, and I had a lot of clothes there, but a lot of clothes that I just never really got rid of. Never really recycled or anything like that. If I ever bought something new, I would add to what I had, but I would never replace it. What happened when I retired was I actually lost. I lost about £10. So the clothes that I had that were already big to begin with were now, like, just swallowing me whole. So nothing fit. I couldn't pair anything. I was just looking at a closet full of clothes that I couldn't use.

[B]

What else? Any other clothing issues or challenges or specifics that we should know about with you and what you like to wear or what you're allergic to or anything like that?

[A]

So I'm short. I'm five foot four. I weigh about 152 pounds. So trying to find clothes that fit, I think, is very difficult. I always wondered how it is that you could go to a store, online or into the store, and there's just a basic, small, medium, large, extra small, extra large. And that's supposed to fit this, like, huge, you know, population of people where I can't see how somebody that's, you know, I don't know, 5 foot 7 is wearing the same size as me. I just. I don't get it. So the sleeves were long. You know, the clothes were baggy for me. So even if I found, like, a size small or a medium, it was still just not fitting right all around. When the sleeves were big, the shirt was too long, so I always had that issue.

[B]

What about the classic smedium?

[A]

Yeah, I tried the Smedium. I always got a smedium at the firehouse.

[B]

So, obvious question, and we're going to bring an expert in. But I could ask this one, what about tailoring?

[A]

Tailoring is definitely an option, but was it.

[B]

Was that also daunting? Like, I said the word tailoring. You know what I would do once I tell someone tailoring, if they say, okay, where do I go? I'd be like, you got me there.

[A]

So this is the thing. You go to the store and you spend, I don't know, $100, $150 on a pair of pants, and now you're spending another 30, $40 to get a tailored. And that's just for one pair of pants. So you're adding all of those tailoring costs on top of what you're already paying for these clothes, which is very difficult. As opposed to some people who are able to just walk into a store and buy a pair of pants that fit. The length is perfect, the waist is perfect, and everything's great. I think that's a lot more difficult for somebody of my height.

[B]

Damn those people. I think everyone probably thinks it's easier for someone else. There's one guy who's like, oh, yeah, the clothes totally fit me. There's one small guy, one medium guy, and one large guy. Yeah, yeah. And they keep them locked in a basement in France, the same basement where they set the atomic clock for the seconds of the day. I want to ask you this. Do you think when you were stymied in front of your closet, do you think that the issue was really, actually practical in front of you, you really didn't have anything to wear, or was it more psychological in that moment?

[A]

No, I think I actually didn't have anything to wear. I Think I was stuck with that mentality, which I think when I, when I did some research was back in like the 90s and 2000s where things fit big and I still had a lot of that stuff in there that fit big. And I think as I progressed and bought new stuff, I. I always bought stuff to fit big.

[B]

Yes. Especially, you know, when our rap heroes are Heavy D in the Boys or Biggie Smalls, they would always have the large flowing garments. I understand that. Or just like those starter jerseys. Like, yes, in the 90s, it was a baggy, baggy era to tell me this. What did you tell the date, why you weren't coming and did you actually ever make that date?

[A]

I said I was sick. Sick.

[B]

So sick of closet sickness. Yes.

[A]

I have not rescheduled.

[B]

Interesting. If she's listening to this, will you if you get some good clothes? Sure. All right, in a moment, we will be outfitting Michael with not literal outfits, but something even better. The outfit of knowledge.

[D]

Uh huh.

[B]

How about that as a tease when how to continues. We're back with How To. We've met Michael. He is a retired FDNY captain. An impressive job, a guy who looks good on the short side, but that's not enough to fill his closet with clothes that he wants to wear and knows how to wear. And so this is where we need an intervention from the best.

[D]

Hi, I'm Tavia Sharpe. I'm an executive image and personal brand strategist and the founder of Styled Sharpe.

[B]

How much is Michael, like your typical clientele? Do you do more men than women?

[D]

I do work with more men than women. I've been dressing men for about 20 years and specifically in my business for about 11. And to answer your second question, Michael is very much like the men that I work with.

[B]

And by the way, can you confirm over your 20 years in the business that the 90s were a baggy time?

[D]

Oh, yeah, 100%. I wore baggy clothes in the 90s too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then before that it was the broad shouldered clothes. By the way, they looked worse. Right. Like something that fits or is a little tighter just looks better.

[D]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

And then I was out with friends and I and a female friend who is maybe five years younger than me were going off the bagginess of the mom jeans, which are very fashionable today. And her husband waded in and said, you just sound like old people. I'm like, but can we have esthetic taste? So you're an expert. Am I wrong about the mom jeans?

[D]

I think you're right. I Tend to agree with you. I think they're a little too much.

[B]

Yeah, it's like an abdication of fashion. It's giving up.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

So what are some rules of thumb? We'll get to Michael's specifics in a second. I've watched some of your Instagram videos. You articulate a theory, if you will, a theory of how you think of fashion, how people should think about it. Let us in on your theories.

[D]

Well, I definitely think fit is number one. You know, when things fit well, you feel more confident. And so, you know, you have to be looking for clothes for brands that actually fit your body type. Everyone is different. We're not all fit models. I used to work in the industry. I was a designer. And yes, we fit on fit models. And all these brands tend to use very similar, similar fit models. And there's like, a couple that go around. We know their names in the industry, actually, and not everybody is the same body type. So we're kind of basing it off of these, like, few guys that come in and get fit. Right. So we have to find the brands that work for us. And fit is number one. And then it comes down to your style, because each brand has its own aesthetic. And then you dress maybe more classic, more, you know, you know, traditional, or do you dress more modern, more fashionable. Right. So each brand has its own aesthetic. And then it comes down to finding, like, items that you can style together and make a, what I call a capsule wardrobe. And everybody's capsule is different because it depends on your lifestyle and your needs and what you do day to day.

[B]

There are these actual physical models, people. And so you, as an expert, would say, oh, the new Cole Hahn line. Yeah, that's a Dave McLemore. He's the guy who was the medium for that line. You would be. You would be able to know that.

[D]

Yes. So there's only a few of them that really go around in New York and go to the different companies and get fit. So we're basing these fits on just a few guys that are in very good shape, by the way. Like, they have.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You know, when you're saying fit models, you don't mean that they're fit or in shape. You mean they're used to fit the clothes, but they also happen to be fit.

[D]

Correct.

[B]

And. But that seems kind of weird in that most Americans aren't fit. So shouldn't you be designing things that would fit more of the population? If you're not trying to be A bespoke brand designer.

[D]

I know this is. This is the fashion industry for you. It's all about vanity. And in fact, there is such thing as vanity sizing in menswear, and we all know it exists in. In women's. Right. We. What is a double zero, anyway? Like, is anybody a double zero? That's not even a number. But for men, there's vanity sizing, too.

[B]

Roulette. It is not life. And so when Michael was saying no one's really a medium or a small or a large. I mean, someone is, but very few people you could confirm.

[D]

Yeah, exactly. And each brand has its own standards. So, you know, one brand might be, like, more for athletic bodies, and then another brand may be more like traditional classic. Like a Ralph Lauren tends to be a little bit more like, looser fit.

[B]

Yeah. And they also. I find that within the brand, they have these phrases that connote that. And you don't always know what that means, because they'll never just say tighter. Right. They'll say. They'll say tapered. I understand that's a regular word. But they'll use phrases like, you know, athletic fit, which I know in suit jackets means. Means that. Oh, who cares? But something like the drop from the chest size to the waist size is not standard. Does it just happen? But it doesn't seem designed for a consumer good to really be meeting the consumer where they are.

[D]

Correct. I 100% agree with that. And now that I'm on the other side of. Right. Because I used to design for what I thought was like, for everybody, and now I'm design. I'm literally working with individuals, and I see all the pain points. It's like a totally different perspective and realizing we don't design things for everybody. No way. Only one body each.

[B]

And is it also the case that when you identify a brand is generally running larger, that's consistent with all their kinds of clothes? Or sometimes the pants are one thing and the shirts are another thing. And I suppose that at a certain point, that could all change. Right. It's not like. It's not like Nautica has always been big for people, has it?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it tends to be pretty consistent. But then, you know, of course, there's trends. Right. So when the trends come in. Right. We were talking about the. Those kind of oversized jeans that are on trend, then every brand's gonna hop on the trend because that's what sells. Right.

[B]

So right. Now, you mentioned. What was the phrase you used? A capsule.

[D]

Capsule wardrobe.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Tell me what that is, it's about, you know, 15 items or so that all work together. So some shirts, pants, jackets. Again, it depends on somebody's lifestyle. You know, Michael doesn't need to wear suits, so a suit wouldn't be in his capsule, but maybe it would be several pairs of, you know, casual pants, jeans, shirts, short sleeve shirts, a mix of that and they all work together. Meaning they can mix and match and be styled together several different ways. So it's a capsule he could go to for all his different occasions.

[B]

Oh, I'm going to throw a brand at you, a clothing brand I don't know if you've heard about in a while. Guaranimals. Any familiarity?

[D]

Yeah, I used to joke about gura animals a lot because it's like that. It's like, let's pick these things. They all go together, make it simple for us to get dressed.

[B]

Okay, so is it hard to assemble the capsule wardrobe?

[D]

Once I know somebody's personal style, their personality, their lifestyle needs, you know, where they're going day to day, then I can find items that fit their capsule. Plus I need to know their fit. Right? That's like a big piece of it. And then the style aesthetic, and then I can make the capsule work for them.

[B]

Do people have an accurate idea about their own style aesthetic?

[D]

Not really. People don't know like, what is my style, what is my sense of style? Nobody knows. So I'm having to ask questions to let them figure it out. We figure it out together.

[B]

And so what do they say? They say, I want to look like a celebrity. Or they say I don't want to. I'm sure they say, I don't want to look ridiculous, I don't want to feel ridiculous. I just want to be comfortable. I'm going to guess that's right up there with the things people say to you.

[D]

Yes, they do say that. And then I usually ask them like, well, how do you want people to see you? And give me some words, you know, I want to be seen as powerful, attractive, smart, confident. These are like the most common ones. Then I know from there, okay, we, we gotta like start looking and dressing that way versus whatever they're doing now, right.

[B]

I want to look schlubby, bordering on the unhoused. And so Timothee Chalamet achieved that dream. And the other big trend with men, I'm guilty of this is to quote the great album Cooley High Harmony, it's the boys to men, men who are still dressing like boys. That goes on all the time. Maybe not when they go to work in a suit. But then when it's anything other than that, there is dressing not appropriate or commensurate with your age. I'm sure you see that.

[D]

Oh, yeah, all the time.

[B]

Is it often the wife is saying, could you dress. Could you get him to dress like a 42 year old?

[D]

Yeah. I have a lot of wives that hire me. And the truth is this, that a T shirt that you may be wearing now looks like maybe like a kid's clothing or it looks oversized or just doesn't look, you know, nice. But you could find and buy a T shirt or even a polo that just looks better. The quality is better, the fit is better, the color is better. You know, it's like we're changing. You know, making you wear a suit when you don't wear a suit like that would be ridiculous.

[B]

Besides the capsule outfit, which I like and is maybe hard to achieve, but I understand, what are some other real, tangible steps that could help most every

[D]

man or every person, you know, asking yourself those words. I usually say, just ask yourself, what are three words that you want to best describe yourself? And how would you go about, like, dressing as that version of yourself? Use Pinterest, use Instagram, you know, find the visual. Find a celebrity or, you know, an entrepreneur, somebody you admire. You're like, wow, that guy dresses so well. What do you like about it? Why do you think he dresses well? How can you emulate a little bit and incorporate it into your style? Is it fit? Is it color? Is it brands that he's wearing? You know, what is it? And then start to research those brands, go into those places, try on things. I know it's not fun. Shopping is overwhelming, and I hear that all the time. But we got to do the work right. You got to go in, you got to find things, you got to look up things and see what's working, what's not working, and then you can start to put outfits together from there.

[B]

Well, in a moment, the man who is has been soaking up this information, much like his hydraulic hoses once saved the city from fire itself. Michael will join Tavia, and here in audio format, he's going to get dressed for success, or at least the man he wants to be. Stay with us. We're back with how to how to dress better. I don't really know. I have some quips. They're not that great. I know redheads look good in green. I told you that. And I'm pretty much spent. So Tavia has been talking to me in general about how she does the job, how when she consults men, which are the majority of her clients, what she says and what they want. And now we're going to bring Michael in who's been hearing all of this. Michael, so far from what Tavia has said, is it sparked. And I know for firemen that's a dangerous thing, but has it sparked anything in you?

[A]

It has, actually, yeah. You know, some of those pointers as far as just simple fit, finding places that carry things that actually fit your body type, you know, things like that, colors, all of these things are definitely sparking a lot for me.

[B]

So one thing that Michael said when I talked to him is he shops online. I do, too. You know, Tavia, is that not his friend, at least at this point in his capsule creation?

[D]

I think you're going to spend a lot of time online trying to figure it out. It's better to go into some stores and try on the clothes, because otherwise you won't be able to recognize right away what is the right fit for you and what might not be working online just going to take longer. And it's. There's so much online. Right.

[B]

And what about the five forwardness of Michael? Any opportunities or challenges this presents?

[D]

Yeah, there's. I mean, we're in New York, so we get every brand. Right. And so we are lucky because we have brands that cater to specifically men under 5 8. And there's also brands that do custom, not just custom suiting, that they will even make chinos and completely customize them to your spec, for example.

[B]

So, yeah, what a, what an odd thing to cater to men under five eight when five, seven and a half is the average height of a man. WorldW. What a sacrifice. Anything, Michael, what's been intimidating for you that maybe Tavia can help you with?

[A]

Definitely going into stores. Right. Go would go into. And typically it's. It's Manhattan, to be honest with you. You can go out east and you'll catch a few stores like this that she's referring to, but for the most part, I'd say a huge chunk of them are in Manhattan. So going into Manhattan, which anybody from New York City knows is torture in itself.

[B]

Yeah. Hey, listen, the LIRR strike has been settled, so it's over.

[A]

That's. That's a start.

[B]

We have excellent mass transit. I don't know which section of Queens are in, but you could get there. Yeah. Then you come back in the bags. With the bags.

[A]

Here you are. And right. So now here you are in Manhattan. You took the train and I. Even if you buy stuff, although I'll be honest with you, a lot of the stores that I've. I've noticed, you buy stuff in the store and they actually don't give it to you there. You actually, actually ship it out to you, so you get it when you get home, they'll ship it to you so you don't have to worry about taking it back on the train.

[D]

Yeah. So that's, that's a plus because then you don't have to carry that around. Just we go in, we make sure it fits and then get it shipped

[B]

for the most part. Are the store clerks or the people there, are they like good Somaliere or are they just people who are punching in and punching out and you wouldn't. And trying to sell you things and I wouldn't take their advice.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not going to say everybody is that way, you know, but I do think they, they have a job. Their job is to sell you. Right. And unfortunately, they've given these people titles as the title stylist when that's not really what they do. But just because it sounds good and it makes the person want to work at that store because they're thinking, oh yeah, I'm getting a stylist in the store. Again, that's not to say everybody's like that, but I do think they're there to sell. Right. They get a commission. They get money for selling you more of their goods and keeping you buying from their product. Right. So. But doesn't mean that they, they don't have good advice. So I think if you didn't want to invest in a, like an outside personal stylist, definitely it's an option and they can help you. But again, they're not going into your wardrobe either, so they really don't know what you have. They're just wanting you to buy new things.

[B]

How much, how much does. Maybe not you at the high end, but if you wanted to work with a stylist even once or twice, how much would that run a person?

[D]

Could any be anywhere from $50 to an hour to more than that and. Or you could go to like Nordstrom or Saks or Bloomingdale's. They have like in house personal stylists slash personal shoppers and that you don't have to pay anything for.

[B]

Interesting. Now, I know in the firefighting realm, there's the concept of clearing brush and creating fire lines and using Pulaski to get the woodland all cleared of fire, but the same can be Said for closets. Right. What's a tactic or strategy to help this guy cull that closet?

[D]

Oh, you got to go in there. You got to literally pull things out one by one. You have to try it on. Really ask yourself, like, would I buy this today? Does this look good on me? Does this flatter me? Does it fit the three words I wanted to, you know, say about myself? Right. Does it make me feel good? Does it look outdated? You know, you have to ask yourself these questions, and if. If it's a no, it's got to go.

[B]

Yeah. No, we can't use spark joy with a fireman. But do you think this. Do you think you can do that, Michael?

[A]

I definitely can do that. Yeah.

[B]

Any challenges, anything on the threshold of keep and get rid of, and what considerations come across your mind?

[A]

There are a few things that I'm wondering about, and I think it's a bottom line of whether I get rid of it or do I bother taking it and getting it hemmed or tailored or, you know, spend the money on that, or do I just buy something new?

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Any rule of thumb there, Tavia?

[D]

With menswear, I feel like it can last a little longer. Meaning menswear style doesn't change.

[B]

Your hemlines are pretty consistent.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, a pant is a pant. You know, five pockets are still a thing, and so chinos. So as long as.

[B]

Then again, the pleat revolution took me by surprise.

[D]

Not everybody could pull that off, let me tell you.

[B]

Well, one day my wife told me, you know, you have all these pleated pants, and they're out. I'm like, aren't they just pants? No. In fact, they're not.

[D]

No.

[B]

Okay, so let's do. Let's do that exercise. What are your three words, Michael?

[A]

I was going with mature, successful, flame retardant. I think it was confident. Flame retardant was a given, but definitely

[B]

confident back in the old days.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

What do you think of those words, Tavia?

[D]

I think it's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Tell everybody, though. Is there a. Is there a. Is there a riff on mature? Because when I was reading about Michael. How old are you, by the way?

[A]

47.

[B]

Okay, so why mature? I mean, you don't want to look like a boy, but do you Want to look 47, or do you want to look older?

[A]

I would like to look 47, but it goes back to what you had mentioned before about the boys to men. I think a lot of us are still stuck in that dressing as a boy stage. Versus really just maturing and dressing more your age.

[B]

Right. And so how does that. Is that harder with casual clothes? I mean, I know cufflinks age you up, but what. What's a way to do that, Tavia?

[D]

It definitely is. That is probably the biggest challenge that I hear from. From men is like, I know how to dress up, but I don't know how to dress well casually. And so I usually tell them it's not about changing too much, but if you're still wanting to wear a polo, for example, could it be a better quality polo? Could it be a better fabric fit style, maybe looks like your kid's polo that you put on. Right. There's a difference. And it's like knowing the difference is really what I tell them. You have to go and you have to look at the brand's touch, feel the product, and really know, understand the difference and why this one looks better than the other.

[B]

By the way, I'm going to throw this out there. Maybe they're a client, but you know, who's not making great polos anymore? It's Ralph Lauren Polo. Ralph Lauren Polo. Do you remember the trend when the horses were half the shirt?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

What was that? And the number three was everywhere. What was that about? Who was this helping?

[D]

I know I don't like those big logos on people. I think it's just too much. I never address anybody and big logos because to me, it's like, no, you're you. Why are you becoming the logo? I don't understand it either now.

[B]

Right. I guess it's to make up for. To assure the person there is this idea of luxury goods and conspicuous consumption and signaling. So I guess it's a very easy shortcut to, hey, I'm wearing a polo because I've just been engulfed and trampled over by this horse. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, another question I had, this is more for me than Michael. Is there a really. Is there really a way to wear short sleeves in a business environment? A short sleeve button down, you just wind up looking like Sipowitz. Is there any real way to do it?

[D]

No, I think not. In a business environment, I think it's better to go with like a dressy polo, and that looks a little more polished if you're going to go short sleeve. Because for whatever reason, and I used to design shirts for 15 years, so I tried to make them look cool, let me tell you. But the short sleeve button up shirt tends to look just more casual by nature. And. And so I think avoid it in a business setting, unless you have a more casual environment, which is fine.

[B]

Right. I. I had hope for the Gabera trend, you know, but we all wound up looking like Havana cigar makers, and only a few of us could pull that off.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

Michael, any other questions? You have Tavia here. She's such a resource.

[A]

Yeah. So we spoke about color, and I did a little bit of my own research on color palettes. Funny enough, I did research one day. The next day, I was watching the news, and on comes this whole thing on color palette. They had a woman on there talking about color palette. And when I had done my research, they talked about the four seasons as the basic color palettes. And then this lady gets on the news the next day, and she's talking about 16 seasons. And I'm like, what just happened? What.

[C]

How'd we gain warming?

[B]

What.

[A]

How'd we gain 12 more seasons? What's going on?

[D]

Pinky red is cool. An orangey red is warm. A chocolatey brown is cool, and a rusty brown is warm. A slate gray is cool.

[A]

So I was a little curious about that, because it apparently is so that certain, I guess, complexions and all of that determine what kind of colors you should or shouldn't be wearing.

[D]

Yeah, I find that that's a lot of effort, and it takes. It just. It's a lot with the seasons and all. I think for men, you should just stick to having your basic neutrals, which you probably do already. Navies, blacks, khaki, tan, gray. Right. That's your foundation. And then from there, what's the next level of colors that match back to that? It's usually purple, green, pink. You know, it's pretty standard. Nothing too bold, nothing too crazy. And then depending on skin tone, you know, if you have a lighter skin tone like me or you, Michael, maybe you don't want to go so bold in the color choices because it tends to look a little jarring. And with somebody who has a, you know, like a deep complexion, you know, they can totally wear bright, bold colors. So, you know, that's where it starts to get a little bit more, like, nuanced. But I would say just keep it simple, you know, And I will.

[B]

I will just say that, you know, maybe I'm just a wuss, but white guys in purple, I don't know about it. Unless. Or Kirk Cousins. I don't. I don't see it happening.

[D]

Depends on the. The level of purple. You know, like, a lavender looks good, but are you going to go like a bright purple? No, probably not. Right. But a nice lavender looks great.

[B]

Right. What am I, Prince over here?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Michael, anything else?

[A]

I think lavender was in my color palette, actually, from what I. Oh, really?

[B]

Wait, and you're 5 4, so you're a little taller than Prince. Wait a minute.

[A]

Here it goes. Yeah. As far as. So what I also thought was. And I know you said that, you know, we live in New York City and having the ability to get to all these stores in Manhattan and all of that is. Which is great. I also thought, on the other hand, that going and shopping online gave me access to a world of stores versus just Manhattan.

[D]

I mean. Yeah.

[A]

But I don't know. You know, again, trying to find my fitness, going from store to store, once I find the stores that work for me, then obviously, that would be great. But I thought. And you're right, shopping online is tedious because I ordered a bunch of stuff online, and now you're trying it on. It's at home. You're trying it on. This kind of works. This doesn't work. I have to get this tailored. I have to return this, this, and this. It definitely gets to be a little overwhelming at times. But then again, going into the stores, like Mike was asking, I feel some of them are trying to be helpful and maybe don't know exactly how to do it. And then some of them, to me, are strictly trying to push. Just buy the clothes. Just buy it. Yeah, it looks good. Buy it.

[D]

Yeah, Straight up. Exactly. Exactly. And they don't care.

[B]

Makes sense. And anything else?

[A]

I don't think so. I'm in the process of working on it, but it is a lot of research. Like you said, you really have to sit there and do research. And I found. I've gone on Instagram and all of that, and I found some pictures just of ideas of models and, you know, just the kind of clothing that they're wearing and how they're styling it and how to wear it, even how to wear. You may find the right clothes and not even know how to wear it. Right. And should I layer it? Should I wear a T shirt under a button down and then open the button down? Should I be rolling up the sleeves? Should I not roll up the sleeves? There are so many aspects of it. It is. It is definitely really in depth.

[D]

Exactly. Yep.

[B]

That's. That's how they get you. But listen, Michael, the next time you have something that you think works, why don't you send us a couple of photos of it, and we'll either give you feedback or mock you relentlessly.

[A]

If that sounds good. I like it.

[C]

All right. Very good.

[B]

Michael retired fdny now becoming a clothes horse. Thank you so much Michael.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[B]

Of course. And Tavia Sharp, former head designer at Calvin Klein, now an executive image and personal brand strategist and she is styled Sharp. Thank you so much. Tavia.

[D]

Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

If you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and a review. We do need your questions that start with the words how to? Email [e-mail] on the gist right now. In the feed you will find a discussion of vexillology with Ted K. And then tomorrow a brand new interview with Helen Lewis of the Atlantis on masculinism.

[E]

So Sam Adler Bell had a really interesting piece in New York magazine a couple of months ago, I don't know if you saw it, about women in the MAGA movement. And they discover that there is also that, you know, there's this performative layer of sexism. And then they sort of appear slightly shocked that some of these people might also not really respect women's opinions, think that they should have any authority or role in the movement. So once again, there, there is this real dance between do I mean it? Do I not? You know, it's hard to say.

[B]

Stay around for Friday's interview with comedian Robbie Hoffman. How to is produced by Jeff Craig and Cory Wara. Michelle Pesca puts the can do in how to. Charles Do Hig founded the show in 2019, making this its eighth season.

[A]

This lady gets on the news the next day and she's talking about 16 seasons and I'm like, what just happened?

[B]

Ladies on the news can't always trust him. I'm Mike Pesca, back every week answering your questions of how to.

[C]

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