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- [00:01]
A
Oh, how long is that? You know, could we just go somewhere like around here? Could we just stay home? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I would have killed for this.
- [00:09]
B
There's gotta be something that she likes doing that would have this area where there could be some discomfort that could be imposed upon it.
- [00:21]
C
Raising kids has never been easy, but now that they're reliably living into adulthood, there's a new set of challenges. Many are about abundance. And you don't want scarcity. But abundance, the deluge of everything from information to material goods has its own set of issues. And we as parents and humans are going through it ourselves. And then we look at our children, don't exactly know what to do. So today I give you not exactly what to do, but a person who thinks about this and talks about this and lives this as our expert. But first, let us meet our parent.
- [00:59]
A
My name is Freddy. I am a physician, scientist and parent looking for some help in navigating tough times.
- [01:07]
C
So Freddie, tell us about your children. How many are they and what are they doing with their free time?
- [01:14]
A
So I have two girls, a 12 year old and a 10 year old. They're both into dance. They're generally good students. They like all the subjects, thankfully, so you don't have to worry so much on that domain. Thankfully.
- [01:26]
C
All the subjects, like whatever subject you bring up with them, like get off that cell phone, they like that subject.
- [01:31]
A
Right. Well, so you know, school wise, you know, broad, and if you ask them for their favorite subject, they'll just list all of them in order. But yeah, like typical 20, 26 kids, they're definitely on their iPads, probably a bit too much and I guess that's on me now.
- [01:44]
C
Is that a major driver of your concern?
- [01:47]
A
Sure. You know, I think maybe when we were growing up it was pretty easy to sort of say like, hey, here's what's you do to be successful. Now with all the changes that we're facing, there's a lot of things that are now big question marks that used to be kind of better defined. How do you mentor and sort of guide your child across this uncertain landscape?
- [02:07]
C
I guess so the big problem here is the uncertainty of the future for the kids or something else.
- [02:12]
A
There's uncertainty for the future. You know, our older one does struggle with novelty pursuit, so she prefers like her comfort zone. But I think given the big changes, the sooner that we feel comfortable with that uncertainty, the better. Sort of give her the tools to be able to face the world.
- [02:29]
C
Yeah. I have once heard that there are two lasting bequeaths we can give our children. One is roots and the other is wings. And I heard that because it was laminated in my friend's kitchen growing up. And he would always joke that my parents are really good with the roots. They got the roots down. It's the wings, you know, a little bit of an overprotective type situation. Now, you don't want to do that. In fact, you want to give your oldest daughter it was. What is that? Right? Wings. To get her out of the comfort zone. But the question is how? And the question is, you know, how to not overdo that.
- [03:05]
A
Maybe that's right. So, you know, when we were growing up, you get thrown in the pool and, like, learn how to swim. Right. That's probably not the right way to do it. So something that's a little bit more balanced, where you support and sort of explore uncertainty in maybe a safer way. So she gets more comfortable with that, let's say.
- [03:23]
C
Can you give me an example of how the novelty aversion shows up?
- [03:26]
A
So, like, you know, I grew up where. In a family of modest means. So we would never go on vacation, for example, or like, we would go on modest day trips here and there. Now, you know, we're in a situation where you can take trips, you know, airplane, go somewhere, stay somewhere nice, etc.
- [03:41]
C
On your. On your physician slash scientist salary, which is both. You got both coming in.
- [03:45]
A
Yeah, right, exactly. They don't pay twice as much. I've learned it.
- [03:49]
C
I was thinking of becoming a physician slash scientist. Now it's back to actress slash model.
- [03:53]
A
Right. But no, so, you know, hey, we're going to take this fun trip to, you know, name your favorite destination. It's like, oh, how long is that? You know, could we just go somewhere like, around here? Can we just stay home? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I would have killed for this. Right.
- [04:07]
C
Okay, so that is a legitimate concern. But is part of your question, am I overreacting to this just because I would have loved to take a trip on an airplane to someplace with a giant cartoon mouse that she doesn't. You know, is this 5050 on me or on her? How do you think and navigate that?
- [04:26]
A
Yeah, I'm sure I'm bringing my own biases to the table and priors. Right. So that, that's, that's probably some of this. But I do think there's something sort of keeping her more sort of anchored. Rooted, to use your. Your prior reference. Right. Where, you know, home is Comfortable. We've created a nice, safe environment. But how do you push beyond that? How do you get out there and explore the world?
- [04:48]
C
And what does their mom think about this or say about this?
- [04:51]
A
Yeah, it's a shared struggle for us. Right. Because you know, hey, surprise, we're going this place or hey, we're going to try this and then we.
- [04:58]
C
And your oldest daughter is such a downer.
- [05:01]
A
Eye rolls or like, oh, hey, try this new food. Right. And oh, you know, I prefer my cheeseburger or whatever. Right.
- [05:08]
C
Was she, by the way, was she one of these picky eaters growing up?
- [05:11]
A
It's funny because at first she wasn't and she would get exposed to a lot of different flavor profiles but over time she kind of regressed with respect to her palate.
- [05:19]
B
Uh huh.
- [05:20]
C
And did that at all coincide with the introduction of a younger sister?
- [05:23]
A
It's possible. It's possible.
- [05:25]
C
But how does it, how does all this make her younger sister feel? What is her, what's her younger sister's attitude towards the hey, we're doing this now and eating this non cheeseburger.
- [05:34]
A
Right. So I think it's funny because it's almost like she over kind of compensates for her sister's lack of interest in new things and she'll like, yeah, I want to try raw oysters, you know, the first time around that we're out. So she'll overcome even if she doesn't necessarily like, like it. Right. But she'll, she'll at least try it because she's trying to wear that identity, I think.
- [05:53]
C
Interesting. So is the real question how to raise a person like that? Because it does seem like you have raised a person who takes risks. It's just not both people who you've raised or you're raising.
- [06:03]
A
Right. So how do you balance it? How do you maybe nudge the other one to be maybe more open to it? Broader picture. If you're not so open to novelty and uncertainty, then, you know, how ready are you to face the world? Right.
- [06:15]
C
This is also very interesting, but it's going to get interesting er, as I bring in an expert, a seer, an old friend. Join us in a minute as we question whether we should go chasing waterfalls or stick to the rivers in the lakes that we're used to. Back with how to in a minute. We're back with how to. We've been talking to Freddie who has two girls. One's a daredevil and the other is, you know, more of a cheeseburger laden, not homebody, but someone who's a little cautious. And he'd like to nudge the cautious one into the realm of the, if not incautious, the risk taking. Well, whenever I think about how to navigate raising children, think about and sometimes listen to the podcast of my next guest.
- [07:16]
B
Hey, I'm Ophir Eisenberg. I'm a standup comedian and writer and I host the podcast Parenting is a Joke.
- [07:24]
C
Hello, Ophira, have you been listening to this?
- [07:27]
B
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I love this. And you know, I've talked to, I'm a parent, but I've talked to at this point, hundreds of parents. And you know, one of the things that comes. All of the things you talked about, Freddie, come up consistently. So, you know, let's just talk with the fun basic thing that makes everyone feel you're not alone. Like, this is everyone's feeling with this, everyone's navigating this. And I think, like, I just wanna actually talk about the food thing for a second because this is what I hear from parents all the time. And I would just like to say my husband is someone who, when I met him as an adult, literally ate five things. He ate five things and he was in a household where his mother decided to I that she was not going to push him, that she was going to go, fine, you eat five things. I will bring you those five things. And then when he went to college, he knew the five things that he, you know, I'm. Maybe it was six. A little bit of a reductive hyperbole. Is that a combination of words? Do they cancel each other out?
- [08:30]
C
Was it, was it the. Based on the five food group pyramid or what were the five things I need to.
- [08:35]
B
I mean, if you consider pyramid a piece of pizza, then yes, yes.
- [08:38]
C
Okay. It's triangular.
- [08:40]
B
It was very pizza based. And I love food and I consider myself an adventurous eater. And so as an adult, I said to my husband, I love eating, I love going out for food. And I will tell you, as a picky eater, he had a lot of anxiety about traveling, about going to other people's houses for dinner parties. He was. Because he always felt he was offending them. Right? And so I gave him, I gamified it to use a term that we say now. And I said, you just need to take a bite of any piece of food I ask you to for one year and if you like any of it, great. And if you don't, we'll never speak of it again. And through that he found out he likes food. He likes raspberries, he likes vegetables. He likes all of these things and there are some things he still does not like. He has some texture things. He's only 10 and he's a picky eater. And so I do the same thing with him. I say, you just have to take one bite and if you hate it so, fine.
- [09:41]
C
Do you have a star chart like you did with your husband?
- [09:44]
B
I will. He gets a little check mark on a pad of paper and at the end of the month, we count them up and we buy some M&M's.
- [09:52]
C
That's good. Stickers with the googly eyes. My. My kids were always pretty good eaters, but my youngest one was in a phase with only three foods. Cheerios, chicken fingers and Coq au Vine. It was weird.
- [10:05]
B
It was an odd phase, but I will say that. I'm not saying I take my advice, but we live in a world that caters to people's individualized tastes, unlike any other. Unlike the. I mean, I. Freddie, we are different backgrounds, but I was raised very. With parents that, you know, were teenagers during World War II and immigrants to Canada. And they. It was. You don't eat a food. I mean, if we broke out in a rash, they would still serve it. They would just. The food is food and as long as it's not rotten, you're eating it. That's it. And very much like you don't have an opinion. No one ever asked me what I thought about something. Are you kidding me? But we don't live in that world anymore. So it is striking this balance where part of me just goes, you know what? These kids are going to be able to survive in this world on whatever way, because we live in a world that caters to individuals and celebrates them. And so maybe, maybe there is a different line that we draw where we actually go. Whatever you're feeling is great. I'm just going to ask you to inch out this much. Not this much the why, why? But just this much.
- [11:17]
C
So, Freddie, how. What was. We didn't get into this. But what was your upbringing like, apart from not being able to do any kind of extended vacations, which under the Trump administration has been imposed on so many people.
- [11:29]
B
God.
- [11:30]
A
Ouch. That one hits a bit close to home because I was born in Central America, actually.
- [11:34]
C
Really?
- [11:34]
A
Where? Which country? Nicaragua.
- [11:37]
C
Oh, yeah. Know it well.
- [11:38]
A
Yeah. But I know I grew up partially in Toronto. Oh, no way. But, yeah. No. So grew up various places. So novelty and constant exposure to uncertainty and, you know, new environments, new people was part of the growing up. So maybe she doesn't need to go to three different schools in third grade to experience novelty, but, you know, some pushing in that direction.
- [11:58]
C
Here's a thought. Trying to get kids to be more adventuresome does seem to be, I don't want to call it a first world problem, but a second order problem. I mean, when you're just trying to survive or when you're fleeing the Kaiser or fleeing pogroms, or fleeing oppressive regimes in Central America, just when you're doing fleeing, you don't have time to be a picky eater. Right? There's very little concept of peanut allergies. But when we relax, when we get more actual safety in our lives, we seem to, if not invent problems, but new kinds of problems present themselves. Just an observation. Ophira, do you agree and does that suggest anything in terms of parenting?
- [12:41]
B
Right? I mean the ongoing. You should be so grateful for this incredible life you lead is, you know, that's very, it's very, very hard because, you know, I have said it, I have screamed at my child, you should be grate. And guess what, everybody, that did not make him grateful. He did not go, wow, you really.
- [13:02]
C
It wasn't the path to gratitude. The gratitude practice did not begin with a screaming mom.
- [13:07]
B
So this is my grand thing to say about this and it requires time and effort and I myself have only done it three times, so, you know, I gotta look in the mirror too. Is that with all the amazing things that you give this, these children, it's very hard for them to look at it and not knowing any different. Know that how amazing it is. However, especially now that the age of your kids and just beginning the age of mine, you can go and volunteer at a soup kitchen and you can go and serve food to people that are food insecure on the last Sunday of every month at what?
- [13:44]
A
Duh, duh.
- [13:44]
B
Like you can go and put in a volunteer shift at the library. There's, I've, there's actually a lot you can do with kids that age. And I've done the. On the advice of a friend, I did not come up with this idea, but I have done the serve taken my son and we have served people that are insecure food insecure or perhaps don't have access to meals at all at, you know, this, this lovely Quaker school near us. And let me tell you, my child was different after that.
- [14:16]
C
Yeah, I think that the issue that we're talking about here, I think it's a little different from lack of gratitude. If you have an aversion to new experiences, it's not that you're so much trying to be a pain in the neck. Right. Or are ungrateful for all that you have. And the other thing I would say is it used to be the case where our parents maybe. Maybe not your parents. One of my parents could say, you don't know how good you have it compared to how I have it. I can say that in some ways, but in other ways, I am identifying with what Freddie said. There's a lot of scary stuff out there that are. That is in the threat matrix, legitimately so of the child that wasn't there for us. From technology and those pitfalls to, you know, just the everyday question, look for their future employment. So maybe it's a little different than it's always been.
- [15:10]
B
Yeah. I will say that I was in Amsterdam and I was looking at the way there were just kids running freely down the street. Not to sound so ridiculous, but it did feel that way. And I was just consumed with how dangerous we have collectively agreed living here is. And I know it's so much more complicated than that, but I really reflected on, wow, it's, you know, there's. There's so much to work against here. It's like not. It's not anyone's individual fault. Sometimes it's a reasonable response.
- [15:44]
C
Yeah. I wasn't in Amsterdam. I was in Copenhagen. Saw the same thing. Just kids running around. It was really mind blowing. I took two home. It was, you know, they have a good life here. Weirdly, they are not eating their breakfast strudel as I would like them. All right, in a moment, we will have Freddie talk to Ophira directly. It's going to be life changing. They're both going to admit the foods they don't and then they will start eating them in a bit of audio exposure therapy. Back in a minute with how to.
- [16:29]
B
I can't believe they're having a gender
- [16:30]
A
reveal for their dog.
- [16:31]
C
No, no, no, no. This is a breed reveal.
- [16:33]
A
Oh.
- [16:34]
C
So, yeah, they're finding out the breed of the puppy they're rescuing.
- [16:38]
B
So they could just be spending all
- [16:39]
C
their money on, like, pet insurance. Instead, we got lemonade for Roscoe and it covered vaccines, microchipping.
- [16:44]
B
We saved 90% on vet bills. Oh, here we go.
- [16:51]
A
What do you think beige confetti means?
- [16:53]
B
I don't know that we'll never get this Saturday back.
- [16:56]
A
Get a quote for any breed@lemonade.com Peter.
- [17:01]
C
We're here with Ophira Eisenberg and Freddie, who is worried about especially his oldest daughter, her risk aversion. We didn't really get to the technology part of it specifically. Freddie, just lay out what your concerns are there.
- [17:15]
A
Well, I mean, as with every kid on the iPad. Right. So whatever that opens up at Pandora's box, then thinking about AI and what that entails. You hear all these horror stories about kids going down a rabbit hole on that front, but, you know, even bigger just thinking about her future, you know, what things do they want to pursue and do with their lives and the whole world is sort of upside down. Right?
- [17:41]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ofer, this has come up on your show, right?
- [17:45]
B
Yeah, Constantly. Constantly. You know, obviously things are evolving and changing every time. We're in the dark ages of AI, you know, it's growing quickly, but we don't even know really how that manifests. But our kids get to be the fun little, you know, lab rats for all of this. We haven't even met these adults, so we don't even really know what we're talking about. We're talking about perceived risk and sometimes, you know, AI aside, sometimes when I too, you know, give my kid a little too much iPad and I am riddled with guilt about it. And why is that? Because we're all busy and running off our feet and sometimes we gotta. They want it and we have to do this. And it just seems like a perfect solution, you know, because it can't always be, well, go read a book or go outside and these kids don't live in the world.
- [18:32]
C
Soup kitchens aren't open all the time.
- [18:34]
B
Yeah, you can't shove them out the door and you're not in Copenhagen. You can't shove them out the door and go, go find your friends
- [18:42]
A
yet.
- [18:44]
B
But I, you know, sometimes this has come up a bunch of times sometimes when we talk about putting guardrails on and how great it is that in, what is it, New Zealand, that social media in Australia, they don't let kids on social media till they're 18 or whatever. And this is how it should be. There is that. And then there's another tiny aspect that has brought up where someone has said to me, ophira, what do you think you're saving him from? You think screens are going away in his lifetime, or do you think it's going to be more screens? We're all the corporate world is being told every day, learn AI or else you're going to be left behind. I don't have an answer about that, but I find that a very compelling thing to think about. Like, what am I saving him from? What if this is totally Extreme. But what if at some job interview in the future, like there are jobs, you know, someone says to him, well, you know what, what? How old were you when you started interacting with AI? And one kid's like five years old and the other kid's like, my mom said I couldn't till I was 21. And they're like, well, I'm sorry, we're going to take this person.
- [19:49]
A
So all the AI right now.
- [19:51]
B
It is interesting that every, every single person that I know that works any kind of job is being told they AI tool. Don't be all this thing. Don't get left behind. Learn it now. D and yet all we're trying to do is make sure our kids don't learn it at all. And I understand that. I don't want my kid to learn it at all. I, I don't like it when he uses the AI Submarine in his Google searches. I say that's not accurate. Don't use that.
- [20:14]
C
Yeah, I think that first of all, just by not being named Claude, your kid's going to have a leg up in the, in the interview process. I It's very hard, it's very hard to disambiguate the constant fear of a new technology, the legitimate capacity of AI. It's going to change the world. We don't quite know how in the past with world changing technologies like the Internet or railroads or printing press, antibiotics or the printing press, you know, would you want them to have no contact, have gone no contact with them during their germinal stages? Maybe the railroad, yes. You know, you don't want them working on the railroad all the live long day. But it does seem, not only historically not the right move, it does seem impractical. But how is it showing up in your family?
- [21:12]
A
Freddie, you know, our kids now, when there's a question, they immediately go to Siri, right? They're like, oh, Siri, what? What is the answer to this question that I have? And I think that's really valuable. But I think that interstitial space between positing the question and then thinking about what the answers could potentially be before you, you find it, there's some value there. Maybe this is me just being super old school, like, okay, Boomer, but you know, you can't always have all the answers. Right? And you know, if we think we can have all the answers, then that that's potentially a problem too. Right.
- [21:44]
C
I want to go back to one thing. Since you have two different kids, it is true that and people. Ophara, you have one child Right.
- [21:50]
B
Yes. Just the one. It sounds like many, but just one.
- [21:53]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Well, all of, all of our children are your children in a way. And all of the children of the Netherlands, I too have two children and I don't need to tell you that anyone with two or three will tell you. You know, the consistency of the parenting is usually the constant and the variation of the kids will blow your mind. So one, don't think it's anything that you necessarily or you and your wife necessarily did, Freddie. I put that out there. But two, I don't know how much you can re engineer it. Maybe the best way to have a risk taking kid is to have them have a risk averse sibling. Because I have found that whenever one kid tax in one direction the other one in order to get parental love and affection or if the first kid is getting that love and affection in order to stand out and say look at me, I'm being a problem in that exact realm tax in the other direction. They don't even know they're doing it. It just is natural.
- [22:52]
A
Yeah, I definitely see that in the two kids. And it's funny because you know, like you said, the parenting style is very similar environment very similar. But you know, they even just from birth would have been their own people.
- [23:07]
C
Yeah. And are you at all worried about your younger daughter being so risk taking? I don't know if she's so risk taking compared to her sister. She is. But what about that? It's good to be the kind of person who has stick to it iveness and who is maybe comfortable without tons of stimuli to shake them up.
- [23:26]
A
Yeah, no, I think she strikes a good balance. You know, maybe I sort of identify with her. Maybe I can sort of see that, you know, she, she's okay being at home reading a book quietly but then you know, if, if offered the opportunity to explore something new, she, she's more game than not, let's say. Right. But I think the main focus on the older ones just like look, you know, try some new things. You could always default to the bowl of cereal, which is easy for us. It's harder for us to try to convince you to eat these other things more painful. But you know there we, we would want try it. So I think Ophir's point to do this. I don't micro dose new foods beneficial.
- [24:02]
B
Oh yeah. And you, and you have to have no reaction too. You have to like turn away and, and not. Not. I don't want to hear how you thought about it. Nothing. Nothing. Zero. Zero.
- [24:13]
C
Because you get dad.
- [24:14]
B
Yeah. And then it's just like, you know, the expectations and then that increases that cycle that you were in before about like wanting them to do something and then they don't. And the whole approval thing. Yeah. So, yeah. Which I learned about all the time. And, you know, I think everyone has said you. You pose these things and then you literally turn around.
- [24:36]
C
So you heard Freddie talk about more of a sink or swim mindset with swimming lessons and floaties and I'm sure lifeguards and fully bonded and licensed by the state. So the Ophir. I want to check in to see how much of this is an actual trend and how much of this is convenient for people who like to criticize the new ways of parenting. But the gentle parenting, is that overblown? Do you see that a lot? Is there benefit to it and is that a way forward when it comes to this aversion question we've been talking about?
- [25:09]
B
So what I found out, and by the way, gentle parenting has been replaced by a new parenting trend. So I think we've reached peak gentle parenting and something is replacing it. Now all of these things are these really far pendulum swings. And of course, the gentle parenting was a response kind of to the helicopter parenting. And I think what I hear from parents over and over again is some kids take to gentle parenting, but a lot of kids, you cannot gentle parent. They will steamroll you. They will be like, how do I feel? I feel like I'm gonna take over. That's how I feel. You know, and so you have to. That is. I really do think that is a very individual experience asking a kid how they feel emotionally. I think that aspect of it is good because I think too many of us grew up with a lot of shame about things that we didn't need to feel that way that were not expressed. Very confusing feelings about being bad or being good. And I think talking to your kids and kind of parsing through that is huge and healthy. But what gentle parenting takes, why we. A lot of people hate it is because it requires. So you are. You're not only your kid's parent, and of course you're making them lunches, probably for school, and you're doing their. Their housework and making sure that they're groomed, but you're also now their therapist and they, you know, you're doing. It's just so much. And parents are exhausted. So the new parenting trend that is being thrown around and books are being written is called fafo. You could say it, fuck around and find out. And It's a little bit more like, you don't want to put on a coat. Oh, well, you don't want to finish your meal. Guess you're hungry. And it is kind of back to, you know, you don't know how to swim. We're throwing you in the lake, and you'll figure it out. And again, this is a pendulum swing the other way. But it is in response to the fact that by potentially the gentle parenting, coddling the kids to the point where they, you know, are just so it's actually had the reverse effect and made them more insecure. And so now it's the other way. It's like, oh, yeah, well, I'm not gonna protect you. You're gonna. Your big fight on the playground, not intervening, you fall down. Not picking you up.
- [27:40]
C
Are these parenting trends because someone decided they're good for the parent, or are they just what do we have the best marketing fafo? Oh, that sounds like Go the to sleep. There's in the title. We're gonna, we're gonna tell our kids this is the way to live their lives. And before the gentle parenting, there was super nanny, right? Her name Joe Frost. So there was like a little bit of mean, a little bit of nice, little bit mean. I wonder if Ms. Rachel is crying from the new FAFO trend. Seems like Ms. Rachel would not like,
- [28:11]
B
Where's Dr. Spock in all of this?
- [28:13]
C
Old Doc Spock.
- [28:15]
B
But, you know, I do think I, I, I feel like the truth with everything is that there's a happy medium. I mean, the, a little bit of, like, you go to school without a coat, you'll be cold. I don't mind that. I kind of don't mind that. I mean, my kid is.
- [28:28]
C
And you're from Canada.
- [28:29]
B
And I'm too.
- [28:30]
A
Because I do remember different things in Canada.
- [28:33]
B
Yeah, I do remember I grew up in Calgary. So, like, you know, but harsh winters, just like Toronto. And when I was a teenager, 13, 13 or so, I wanted to go to school in the middle of the winter with just little flat shoes on that were kind of cute and no socks. And I, and I'm the youngest of six and all of these things together, my mother just went fine. And I remember my feet were freezing and I still did it, but yeah, you know, it stuck with me. I remember there's a lot of things I don't remember. I still remember that.
- [29:06]
A
Yes, retrofefo parenting.
- [29:08]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [29:09]
C
I'm going to come up with, I call it falal, which is around and learn a lesson that lasts a Lifetime.
- [29:17]
B
Wow.
- [29:17]
C
The falal.
- [29:20]
A
I'll buy that book.
- [29:21]
C
We got a falafel. I'm not sure how to retrofit that.
- [29:24]
B
We got to get too much falafel.
- [29:26]
C
Parenting.
- [29:27]
B
Falafel parenting. Extremely loved. That's what the el is at the end. With extreme love. With extreme love.
- [29:37]
C
Love it. All right, Freddie, any other last questions, issues, check ins that you want? Now that we have the sage of all sages, the coatless Calgary Ophira Isaac here.
- [29:49]
B
I'm going with that.
- [29:51]
A
Yeah. I mean, let's distill it. What could I do with this one daughter to sort of increase her, let's say, level of comfort with discomfort? You know, we're talking about food as the example. We can talk.
- [30:01]
B
That's just an easy one.
- [30:03]
A
Exactly. Right. Then travel, whatever. But just that idea to feel, lean into the discomfort and even if you don't enjoy it, sort of learn from it and figure out how to grapple with it.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah. So my feeling is, and this is really complicated and I, you know, you seem extremely smart, intelligent and cool, Freddie. So I would only do these more often.
- [30:26]
A
Thank you.
- [30:28]
B
With a great house where everyone feels comfortable. I would like to come to your house, quite frankly. But there must be a nuance zone. There's probably, there's gotta be something and I don't know what it is. Cause I don't know your daughter that she likes doing that she already likes that would have this area where there could be some discomfort that could be imposed upon it. So if you lean in to something that she likes. I'm just trying to think of what would be an example. Like for example, Mike, we like going out for dinner every once in a while because it's just a relief not to figure that out. And it seems like a celebration. So I will just find one restaurant that has a large menu that is going to go for me and that there's gonna be something for him. And I'll allow him to bring his favorite books. I don't like doing the iPad at a dinner out thing. And that will be like the tiny little step we take. So I just, I feel like it's like these tiny things. Like I don't know what she's into, but there must be something within that that you can push.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah, no, that's a good rack. I mean, what's interesting is that they do dance. And I would have thought that doing the recital would sort of push her out of her comfort zone. And you know, hey, this is stressful kind of situation. You're in front of a large audience, but she loves it. It's like, no stress at all for her. And that was completely surprising. We were like, oh, we're not sure how this is going to go. And we were worried for nothing on that.
- [31:55]
B
Freddie, this kid seems perfect. No changes, no notes.
- [31:59]
A
All right, seriously, cancel the pod.
- [32:03]
B
Okay, so. Okay, so that's great. So within the dance world, what do you think? Like, is there, like, would there be a travel destination where you could be like. But we're also gonna go see X. Like, we are gonna go to see the, you know, the Royal Ballet in London or something like that. I don't know if that's her dance style or, you know, I don't know if it's a performance that she would dig, but I'm just trying to think within that realm.
- [32:31]
A
Got it. So something Mary. Something she feels comfortable with and enjoys with. The uncomfortable.
- [32:37]
B
Yeah. Like, in order to get to that, you gotta walk through the snake pit. Sorry.
- [32:42]
A
Okay.
- [32:43]
C
Right. That's a good one. I don't know if when you were talking about we'll go to a restaurant with enough food on the menu, what you're essentially suggesting is a Cheesecake factory for dance. You know, Freddie, just asking the question proves that you're a very good parent is exactly the sort of thing we tell ourselves when we pretty much suspect we're not being that great a parent. But I think it might be true in this case. Really, it is. But I want to thank you. I hope this helped a bit or a lot. And maybe you'll check in and tell me what you exposed your daughter to and how she took to it.
- [33:14]
A
Great. And I'll let you know what my address is once we move to Copenhagen.
- [33:20]
B
May we all live in Copenhagen.
- [33:23]
C
Freddie, thank you so much.
- [33:24]
A
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
- [33:26]
C
And Ophira Eisenberg, who is the host of the Parenting is a Joke podcast and performs comedy all over. You know her. I'm not going to list all her upcoming gig gigs, but there are yuck yucks and there are ho hos. Maybe if not on the menu, then on her performance schedule. Thank you so much, Ophira.
- [33:43]
B
My pleasure. Thanks so much.
- [33:45]
C
And if you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and a review. We do need your questions that start with the words how to. Email us@how to ikepeska.com how to is produced by Jeff Craig and Cory Wara. Michelle Pesca puts the can do and how to. Charles Duhigg founded the show, writes bestsellers and is also a super taster. I prefer my cheeseburger man with broad professional and personal palate. I'm Mike Pesca, back every week answering your questions of how to.