How To Manage Your Anger

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How To! with Mike Pesca"

Episode: How To Manage Your Anger

Original Air Date: April 28, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Tyler Bryant (science teacher, dad)
Expert: Dr. Ryan Martin (psychologist, "The Anger Professor")

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode addresses the challenge of managing anger in everyday family life. Listener Tyler Bryant seeks advice on his tendency to become easily irritated by domestic frustrations—especially related to parenting and partnership. The conversation drills into the roots of anger, how it presents in men, and, crucially, actionable strategies for expressing and channeling anger in healthier, more constructive ways. Psychologist Dr. Ryan Martin unpacks the social and personal dynamics of anger, offering insights and practical communication tools.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tyler’s Anger Triggers in Family Life

• Overwhelm & Expectations Not Met
  Tyler describes common domestic scenarios where stress builds—such as being left to manage the chaos of a family outing or being peppered with helpful (“helicopter”) texts while trying to coordinate his kids.
  • Example: Multicultural Night chaos, wife’s delayed help, toddler removing shoes

    "I'm trying to juggle all of these things, including a kid that, like, will not leave her shoes on to save her life. And I now have to text you, too." – Tyler Bryant [03:04]

• Desire to Instill Independence and Self-sufficiency
  Tyler is frustrated when his teenage stepdaughter asks basic questions (e.g., “Where’s the bathroom?”) in a public setting where the answer is obvious—a situation that rubs against his values of self-sufficiency and curiosity.

  “Bathrooms are always in the same place in a restaurant. There was like a huge sign. And she turns to me and she goes, where's the bathroom? And I was like: You can find it.” – Tyler Bryant [06:33]

• Self-Awareness & Concern for Family Dynamics
  Tyler recognizes that his approach can come off as condescending, and he worries about the example he’s setting, especially for his daughters.

  “Man, being angry about it isn’t going to do it.” – Tyler Bryant [08:31]

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2. The Nature and Purpose of Anger

• Anger as a Social Emotion
  Dr. Martin explains that anger often emerges from unmet expectations and is deeply tied to social interactions and a sense of justice.

  "One of the key places that anger emerges from is when expectations are not met." – Dr. Ryan Martin [04:17]

• Anger Isn’t Inherently Bad
  Anger can signal injustice or boundary violations and give energy to confront problems. The real issue is how it is expressed.

  “Anger isn't inherently bad...a lot of times that's totally reasonable. Not just reasonable, but healthy.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [04:26]

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3. Principles Bumping Into Practice

• Values Conflict
  Tyler’s principles—self-sufficiency, intellectual curiosity, taking care of each other—sometimes conflict, especially when he wants to push independence but also be supportive.

  “How does your principle of self sufficiency, how is it congruent with your principle of taking care of one another?” – Dr. Ryan Martin [08:52]

• Relationships Over Rigid Principles
  Dr. Martin suggests Tyler consider which is more important: his daughter’s self-sufficiency in the moment or their relationship together.

  "What is more important right now? Having her be self-sufficient...or developing a positive relationship with her?" – Dr. Ryan Martin [10:31]

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4. The Male Anger “Epidemic”

• Prevalence and Cultural Patterns
  Dr. Martin sees male anger as widespread, often socially reinforced, and sometimes used to gain compliance from others—though few men are as reflective and motivated to change as Tyler.

  "I see a lot of male anger being a problem. I don't necessarily find that many men are as insightful or as interested in changing it as Tyler is, though." – Dr. Ryan Martin [15:56] “The male anger epidemic is the silent epidemic, in a way.” – Mike Pesca [16:12] “I don’t know if it’s silent.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [16:15] “It’s pretty loud sometimes.” – Tyler Bryant [16:17]

• Service or Sabotage?
  Dr. Martin asks Tyler to consider ways in which anger might “serve him”—getting his way, for example—even if he doesn’t like that effect.

  “For many men, their anger actually serves them, or at least they think it does… It's a way for them to get their way.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [16:19-17:00]

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5. Breakthrough: It's Not the Anger, It's the Expression

• Assertive vs. Aggressive Communication
  The focus shouldn’t be on eradicating anger, but rather altering its expression towards assertive (not passive or aggressive) communication.

  “It isn’t necessarily the anger that is the problem. It is purely the expression.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [21:26] “You can assert yourself in a way that is still kind and that is still warm.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [21:34]

• Practical Communication Styles
  Dr. Martin frames assertive communication as “acknowledging what your reasonable boundaries are…and communicating that,” pointing out that escalation often happens when someone doesn’t feel heard.

  “There's aggressive communication...passive communication...then there's assertive communication...” – Dr. Ryan Martin [22:28] “Sometimes it might start as assertive...but then starts to escalate as you don't feel heard.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [23:10]

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6. Tangible Strategies for Anger Management

• Self-Care Basics
  Managing triggers is easier when physical needs (sleep, food, hydration, fresh air) are met.

  "It's staying hydrated, it's spending some time outside getting fresh air, it's eating right..." – Dr. Ryan Martin [26:43]

• Unpacking Your Triggers
  Understanding which values are underlying your irritations helps distinguish what matters from what doesn’t.

  “Unpack your worldview...pay attention to what some of those core principles are...” – Dr. Ryan Martin [27:10]

• Regulation Techniques
  • Grounding Exercise: Name 5 things you see, 4 you can touch, 3 you can hear, 2 you can smell, 1 you can taste.

    “By the time you get to the end of that process, you've essentially calmed yourself a little bit.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [30:43]

  • Deep Breathing: Pausing for breath and calming the body before reacting.
  • Mantras/Stepping Away: Recognize when you’re tired or triggered and explicitly communicate that you need a moment.

    “When we are sleep deprived...to say the words, some of these things feel worse because I’m tired.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [28:53]

• Assertive Phrasing
  Instead of accusatory statements, use clear, neutral requests.

  "Hey, I really wish somebody had brought the garbage cans in. Could somebody go do that now, please?" – Dr. Ryan Martin [24:24]

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7. Growth and Takeaways

• Progress Is Ongoing
  Tyler has moved away from his most reactive moments, though he recognizes this is an ongoing process.

  “I've moved away from being that person. That's probably one of the hotter ones...that was a low moment for me.” – Tyler Bryant [24:19]

• Letting Go of What Doesn't Matter
  Tyler realized that certain annoyances (e.g., specific noises) aren't connected to his core principles, so he can choose to let go.

  "Those aren't butting up against things that I actually feel are important...which means I need to be the one in charge of letting them go." – Tyler Bryant [28:11]

• Maintaining Standards Without Tyranny
  The goal is to keep high expectations, but communicate them in a way that uplifts rather than alienates.

  “I want to have standards. I just also don’t want to be…a tyrant.” – Dr. Ryan Martin [30:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mike’s Parenting Humor:
  “What a dick. Sorry.” – Mike Pesca [24:25], after hearing Tyler’s curt response in a roleplay.
• Tyler’s Reflection:
  “Unflappable is one of those words that we need the opposite of and we don’t have in the language. There’s no flappable.” – Tyler Bryant [25:33]
• Dr. Martin on Social Nature of Anger:
  “Anger, more than any other emotion, is a social emotion.” – Dr. Martin [12:30]
• On Assertive Communication:
  “Assertiveness is a way of essentially acknowledging what your very reasonable boundaries are…in communicating that.” – Dr. Martin [22:28]

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Important Timestamps

• Tyler’s “shoes off” frustration: [01:54–03:34]
• Anger as unmet expectations: [04:14–04:26]
• Stepdaughter “bathroom” incident: [06:33–08:04]
• Roleplay of family interaction: [12:01–12:25]
• Aggressive/Assertive/Passive communication styles: [22:28–23:19]
• Grounding technique explained: [30:04–30:43]

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Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Anger is often about unmet expectations and core values—but can be constructive if expressed assertively, not aggressively.
• Maintaining self-care reduces reactivity to triggers.
• Naming your irritations and unpacking what values they connect to can help you let go of what doesn’t matter.
• Assertive communication—expressing needs and limits kindly and clearly—is the goal.
• Practical tools include deep breathing, grounding exercises, and calmly communicating your state (“I’m tired, I need a minute.”) before anger escalates.
• Progress is ongoing, but insight and humility can lead to real change in habits and relationships.

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This episode is an insightful therapeutic session on air, blending empathy, practical psychology, and the kind of vulnerable humor that makes “How To!” unique. Essential listening for anyone wrestling with irritation, especially in the messy, loving chaos of family life.

Transcript

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Tyler Bryant]

1-800-contacts. You guys are both in here just like sitting and I'm coming in with the baby and now I'm going back out. Like, both of you have your shoes off. Shoes don't go back on once they come off. And then on the drive, it is rehearsing how I'm going to be correct in the eventual argument that we're going to have. I'm getting all of my ducks in a row.

[Mike Pesca]

Tyler is like a lot of us, he's specifically a teacher, a dad. And here's the universal part. He sometimes gets angry. Like, say, the goings on around multicultural night.

[Tyler Bryant]

No problems. Like, we kind of knew it was coming, but we decided in the moment, yeah, we're gonna go. And so now I'm on. Now I'm on deck with baby, right? Which is, again, fine. Wife gets caught up at work, isn't able to come home and help me get the baby going and get all the things that we need, and I'm in charge of all of this again, fine. I can roll with this.

[Mike Pesca]

But soon it stops being fine. Soon it gets like the scene in Goodfellas where he's got to get Sandy the package. He's got to get Lois ready for a trip. He's got to drive to Sandy. He's got to stir the gravy, keep seeing the helicopters, and this kid is kicking off her shoes like she's allergic to them.

[Tyler Bryant]

But the thread of texts that are coming through, make sure you're paying attention to this. Make sure you got this. Let me know when you're leaving. Like, all of those things. Like, I'm reading them in that voice, which, of course, is not probably how my wife meant them. She's just like, let me know so that I can be there when you're there. I'm like, holy crap. I'm trying to juggle all of these things, including a kid that, like, will not leave her shoes on to save her life. And I now have to text you, too. Like, show up when you said you were going to show up. Why am I doing all of this lifting for you when I'm the one doing all of the lifting?

[Mike Pesca]

I can sympathize. We all can. And one very good thing about Tyler is he knows he has the penchant to get angry, quite angry. And he also knows he needs to do something about it.

[Tyler Bryant]

I've been starting to question, you know, what good does getting angry do in my life? Especially as I start to think about when my girls start looking for men to join their life. Who are they looking for?

[Mike Pesca]

Don't ask me. I'm still a little miffed about the shoes and that helicopter ask instead of this guy.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

I'm Ryan Martin. I'm a psychologist and a dean at the University of Wisconsin, Green Bay, and I've written the books why We Get Mad and emotion hacks.

[Mike Pesca]

Dr. Martin has insight.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

One of the key places that anger emerges from is when expectations are not met.

[Mike Pesca]

And he also has questions.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Anger isn't inherently bad. And when people have their expectations violated or their goals block or when they feel treated poorly, they are likely to get angry. And a lot of times that's totally reasonable. Not just reasonable, but healthy. It's part of what alerts us to injustice and energizes us to confront the injustice. So all of that might be coming in a lot of people from a good place. The question then is, what do you do with that anger?

[Mike Pesca]

When we come back after the break, we'll hear Tyler's triggers and also maybe get a little triggered our own selves. When a quite intelligent teenager forgets the basics of restaurant layout. When how to continues. If you're looking for another podcast that brings therapy resources to your earbuds, then check out the self work podcast. Ten years ago, Dr. Margaret Rutherford decided to extend the walls of her psychology practice as far as they could go, and the Self Work podcast was born. Each week, Dr. Margaret dives into an issue in mental health that she's personally researched, adding in her own two bits from over 30 years of experience. And you'll also hear the interviews with creative and informative guests who bring their own experience to the table. Her warm southern drawl soothes and comforts. She's about as down to earth as they come. Rated by many as the best depression podcast out there, Self Work stresses what you can do about it. So if you're seeking ideas and actions to move yourself forward, Self Work is for you. Find it on your favorite podcast app and tell them how to sent you. We're back with how to and we were joined by Tyler, science teacher, dad of a blended family guy who wants his children to live up to some expectations so that they can navigate a world where he sees so many of the young people he comes into contact with just swimming at sea. Here's another frustrating moment. Maybe you could relate.

[Tyler Bryant]

I was out to eat with my stepdaughter and my wife recently. I really don't like when she asked me questions that are easily answerable. Where's the bathroom Is one that like really bothers me when we're at a restaurant because at the end, again, I want her to be self sufficient. And at 14, you can look. Bathrooms are always in the same place in a restaurant. They're in the back of the place, like back corner. There was like a huge sign, right? It was like very obvious where the bathroom was. And she turns to me and she goes, where's the bathroom? And I was like, you can find it. You can do this. And she gets like real pissed at me because she's like. And so as the conversation continues, she finally like hits the table and goes, it's just rude that you don't answer. And so like now I'm sitting with that, right? All night I'm sitting with this thing because if colleague had asked me the same thing. If we were out at dinner with a bunch of my friends from work or just friends and somebody had Asked me that, I probably would have answered, but I would have been really annoyed by it. And I'm trying to think, like, why. Why does this bother me so much? And I have kind of, like, these three, like, core principles of mine. I was kind of thinking, like, this is a big part of, like, who I am. Self sufficiency is a really big part of it. As a latchkey kid, you know, like, this idea that, like, I am where I am because I worked really hard and I learned a lot of things on my own. And I don't ask for a lot of help. I do when I need it, but not all the time. Intellectual curiosity is another part of it. And then a social contract. Like, I feel pretty strongly that we should take care of each other, right? When she butts up against those, like, three core things, I really struggle with it.

[Mike Pesca]

So self sufficiency, intellectual curiosity, taking care of each other. These are important principles to Tyler and for Tyler to impart to his kids. So you either have principles or you don't. That's true. But when principles, when worthy principles, I have to say, worthy, worthy principles express themselves. As, you know where the bathroom is, Tyler starts thinking some version of, what am I doing here?

[Tyler Bryant]

And I think in a lot of ways, at my worst times, comes off as condescending and overbearing, right? And that's. That's exactly what I mean by, like, this is not the guy I want to be. I do want to instill these values. They are important to me. They are important for me to. For her to feel that way. And, man, being angry about it isn't going to do it.

[Mike Pesca]

Dr. Martin has some ideas.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Here's what I'm wondering. How does your principle of self sufficiency, how is it congruent with your principle of taking care of one another?

[Tyler Bryant]

That is exactly the thing that I was thinking in this particular situation. And I think part of it comes down to when I feel like something is lazy, that she doesn't need my help to find the bathroom. Now, on the flip side, she has the task of making a meal a week. And it can be whatever she wants, but it's her job to make the meal. And sometimes she tries something new. And I have told her every time, whenever you get stuck, please come in and talk with me, and I will work on that skill and figuring that out with you. Now, if it's figuring out where the garlic is, you know where the garlic is that you can go find, just open some doors and move some things, right? But like, she the other day she needed to figure out whether or not she could make quinoa and rice at the same time. That's. We can figure out how to do that. And then I'm working on. Instead of saying like, yeah, you can do that, you do it like this. It's all right, where do we look? Right? How do we. How do we go to your Chromebook and figure out, can I cook rice and quinoa together or do I have to cook them separately? Right. Like, that's when I move directly into teacher mode. And that makes a lot of sense for my brain. It's when I get to this point where, like, you've asked me 12 times where the bathroom is in a restaurant. And you know, I don't like telling you you can just get up and go do it. Or ask your mom, because she'll tell you.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Because I was thinking, in this case, another option is just to tell her where the bathroom is.

[Tyler Bryant]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Then all the principles would be violated.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

No, they wouldn't. Because taking care of each other might mean helping each other out every now and then.

[Tyler Bryant]

But is it taking care of her when. When I'm allowing her to be. When I'm not holding her to the higher expectation of having to think through problems?

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Sure, I suppose. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what is the end game? I mean, let me ask another way. Like, what is more important right now? Having her be self sufficient in a way that allows her to handle that problem or developing a positive relationship with her.

[Tyler Bryant]

That is a very fair set of questions. I think forward in my mind most of the time is I see all of these helpless kids in my classroom who can't do anything, and I really don't want her to be that person.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yep.

[Tyler Bryant]

And I think that does. I think that's a. I do think that's an anxiety slash fear response. I don't want her to get to 21 and be, oh, my God, I'm out of public and I can't ask where the bathroom is. Like, I just, I. I see, I see that every day, all day. Right. And I just. She's stronger than that.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yep. Right. Have you had that conversation with her?

[Tyler Bryant]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

You have? Okay, that's good.

[Tyler Bryant]

After this situation, that was where I kind of like pointed that out. Right? That, like, yes, I agree with her. It is rude. And Mike, I agree with you. Like, just say it, man. Like, like, it's not that.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

No, I do.

[Mike Pesca]

I was actually just thinking, isn't there a different, softer, perhaps more playful. I don't Know your dynamic. I know what mine would be. I create. I commit many parenting faux pas and perhaps have not set them up right. But there's a lot of humor and teasing and, you know, I. Let's not compare. I. I just wouldn't say it like that. And then I would say, if you say it like that and it's working for your dynamic, that's fine. But it seems not to be.

[Tyler Bryant]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, so we're gonna role play. Tyler. Dad. Where's the. Did she call you that?

[Tyler Bryant]

No, I'm. Tyler.

[Mike Pesca]

Tyler, where's the bathroom? We're in the restaurant. How did you say it?

[Tyler Bryant]

Oh, I said I'm not gonna tell you.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Oh, okay.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Why can't you just tell me where?

[Tyler Bryant]

No, actually, that's not true. You know what I said? I said you can find it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I know, but I'm asking you. You've been here before.

[Tyler Bryant]

Oh, I just went to the bathroom. You'll find it. It's easy.

[Mike Pesca]

What a dick. Sorry.

[Tyler Bryant]

Totally.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

So there's a reason why this conversation went so quickly to relationships, and it's because anger, more than any other emotion, is a social emotion. Right. When we get angry, we get angry, typically within the context of relationships. And I'm defining relationships broadly, like interactions with other human beings. Right. Whereas a lot of times our other emotions sometimes just happen outside of social situations. And so some of this, I think, to your point, some of, like, what's happening really is in how you communicate with your kids. I have said similar things to my son. I've told him, like, look, if you're not going to go up and buy the Cinnabon, then you're just not going to get the Cinnabon. I don't want to do it for you. You know, like, part of this is. And so I've done something similar. It's just that it can happen to that point within the context of a relationship where there's some playfulness there and some silliness. And I'm wondering to what degree you feel like you have that.

[Tyler Bryant]

I think this one was loaded because it was so constant, so consistent.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Gotcha.

[Tyler Bryant]

So there was not playfulness to be had. Gotcha.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

One of my questions for you, just as we think about your anger, most of the circumstances you provided had to do with your family. And you talked about how some of the differences, and it's really an expectation difference in school versus at home, is that. Do you. Are there other places where you are finding yourself getting angry? On the road, in the. Anywhere Else.

[Tyler Bryant]

No, the road is mostly like, look at that idiot doing something horrible like that. I find a lot of anger in my inability to affect change at a global scale or even at a community scale. Right. Like, I do this job because it matters to me to make sure that kids have the opportunity to learn and be productive members of society. And then I walk out into the real world and I see that there's just so many people being unproductive members of society and then taking advantage of each other, and that it just makes me, like, existentially angry. And that's something that I like. You know, One of the reasons why I listen to the cadre of podcasts that I listen to is that they tend to be the ones that don't delve into those types of, you know, let's be angry for the sake of being angry. Because I want to learn how to do things to make change, right? So in this situation here, right, Like, I want to. What are the skills for, like, bringing myself down out of it? What are the skills for being more friendly, being more relaxed, while at the same time still holding these expectations? I want the world to be a better place. I don't want you walking in because you're a tall blonde guy into the 700 line queue. It's a southwest line. And you walk in front of, like, the three families of Latino people at lax, and I. And I tap you on the shoulder and say, hey, the line starts back there. And you tell me to off. Right? Like, I'm going to get real angry in that situation. Right. But I think a lot of people would. I think a lot of people wouldn't say anything to that guy, and that's why he does that. Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Let me ask you this, Dr. Martin. In your practice, do you see a lot of similarities, men who are angry and don't want to be, but find themselves in an angry mindset more often than they would like?

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

I don't necessarily find too many. I see a lot of male anger being a problem. I don't necessarily find that many men are as insightful or as interested in changing it as Tyler is, though.

[Mike Pesca]

The male anger epidemic is the silent epidemic, in a way.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yeah. I don't know if it's silent.

[Tyler Bryant]

It's pretty loud sometimes.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yeah, I think it's pretty loud to the rest of us. I think the. The problem is that for a lot of men, and this is a question that I would. I would ask Tyler actually, is to what degree, in what ways might your anger actually be serving you? And maybe it doesn't at all. That can be a question. And the reason I bring it up is because I think for many men, their anger actually serves them, or at least they think it does. It might scare their partners into,

[Mike Pesca]

I

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

don't want to, I guess, submission and scare them into doing what they want. It might serve them at work.

[Mike Pesca]

It's a way for them to get their way.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yes, exactly. And so I, I don't know to what degree, Tyler, you might see that or, or don't.

[Tyler Bryant]

I would even shift Mike's original question. Like, I don't want to be angry as a way of being strong. Right. I want to have these high expectations. I want to lift everybody up around me and I don't want to have to use anger to bring everybody along with me. I want to be warm and confident and kind without being soft and squishy and walk on a ball.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Okay, so that's super important because then it isn't necessarily the anger that is the problem. It is the purely the expression.

[Mike Pesca]

All right, this is something of a breakthrough. I don't want to misuse this term, but Ryan just laid on Tyler an insight that's about to unlock something that you will want to hear. Stick around as our program continues.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Summer's supposed to be the easy season. So why are so many people quietly googling a therapist between summer Fridays? Because more daylight doesn't fix the hard stuff. Sometimes it just turns the volume up. Grow does therapy differently Therapy is not only for when you're in crisis. Grow therapy is here for all the moments when you decide you want more. More support, more clarity, more tools. Mental health isn't a destination you reach, it's something you build. And grow makes that easier. Grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters like insurance, specialty, identity or availability and get started in as little as two days. There are no subscriptions, no long term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes Your insurance on Grow Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com booknow today to get started. That's growththerapy.com booknow growththerapy.com booknow availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Mike Pesca]

If you're looking for another podcast that brings therapy resources to your earbuds, then check out the self work podcast. Ten years ago, Dr. Margaret Rutherford decided to extend the walls of her psychology practice as far as they could go, and the Self Work podcast was born. Each week, Dr. Margaret dives into an issue in mental health that she's personally researched, adding in her own two bits from over 30 years of experience. And you'll also hear the interviews with creative and informative guests who bring their own experience to the table. Her warm Southern drawl soothes and comforts she's about as down to earth as they come. Rated by many as the best depression podcast out there, Self Work stresses what you can do about it. So if you're seeking ideas and actions to move yourself forward, Self Work is for you. Find it on your favorite podcast app and tell them how to sent you

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Mike Pesca]

We're back with how to and as you've been hearing, Tyler really wants to work on his anger. And I think he is working on it. You should know that we're telescoping this episode a little bit. It actually represents various conversations over three full years of therapy between Tyler, Ryan. No, no, it's they talk for over an hour. So we took out a bunch of the annoyances. But you get the picture. You get the gist, if you will. I was interested in where this all lands. So let's rejoin the conversation as Ryan Martin is talking again to Tyler.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

So that's super important because then it isn't necessarily the anger that is the problem. It is purely the expression, right? Because you can have that situation where you are mad because they didn't do what they're supposed to do. You can have a situation where you're mad and you can assert yourself, but you're going to assert yourself in a way that is still kind and that is still warm. And that's possible. I mean, it just. But it means doing some things like not yelling. It means trying to shift the language. But in that case, it really is sort of different than some of what we've been talking about. It's less about not being angry, and it's more about developing a different set of communication skills or even using a different set of communication skills that maybe you already have, but using them with your family in ways that you haven't.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you have any tangible examples, maybe from the soon to be bestseller emotion hacks?

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yeah, I mean, I do. I think broadly speaking, there's like three types of communication. And there's aggressive communication, which it sounds like is the direction you sometimes lean when you're angry and don't want to. There's passive communication, which is, I think, what you're also really actively trying to avoid because you don't want to be soft or taken advantage of. And then there's assertive communication, which is a way of essentially acknowledging what your very reasonable boundaries are, what is fair in communicating that. And in some instances, at least, one of the things I'm noticing as we talk through this is sometimes it might start as assertive communication, but then starts to escalate as you don't feel heard. Is that fair?

[Tyler Bryant]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yeah.

[Tyler Bryant]

That I'm trying to be patient and like, de escalate and. Yes, absolutely.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

And so from that perspective, I think. I guess the next question is, hey, I noticed the garbage cans are still out there. Could somebody bring those in? How does that go over?

[Tyler Bryant]

I think that probably would have got over fine.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Okay, what did you say?

[Tyler Bryant]

You guys are both in here just like sitting, and I'm coming in with the baby. And now I'm going back out. And I think she said, well, we were going to go out and get them. Both of you have your shoes off. Shoes don't go back on once they come off. I know how you work.

[Mike Pesca]

Gotcha man works as a physics teacher. He knows how shoes work when they come off. He knows an object at rest tends to stay at rest.

[Tyler Bryant]

There you go.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

So. So in that case, it escalated pretty much right away.

[Tyler Bryant]

Oh, I was. I was hot by the time I came in the house, which is. Which again, I've moved away from being that person.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Okay.

[Tyler Bryant]

That's probably one of the hotter ones that I. Okay, yeah, that was a low moment for me.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Okay, so that case, it's about catching yourself before you get there and being able to voice the exact same thing, but in a way that isn't as hostile or aggressive. Right. So instead of, you know, how you said it, it's, hey, I really wish somebody had brought the garbage cans in. Could somebody go do that now, please? Right. Same thing with, you know, you're getting the slew of tax from your wife. At any point, just out of curiosity, did you respond to those texts and just communicate to her, like, hey, I've got this, but the texts are actually Making it a little harder.

[Tyler Bryant]

Certainly not in that tone, but I got you. I do think that sounds about right, Mike. Yeah.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

So that's why I wondered about the buildup. Like, do you maybe let it build to a point where you end up coming out hot in a way that you wish you hadn't or in a way that you wish you would have? You could have just maybe earlier asserted yourself and said, I don't think so.

[Tyler Bryant]

I don't think I'm a buildup person. I, I have people in my life like that. I think I'm, I think I'm too reactive. You know, unflappable is one of those words that we need the opposite of and we don't have in the language. There's no flappable.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

I'm sure it's flappable.

[Tyler Bryant]

Yeah, sure. But like, I, I, I want to be more unflappable. Like, I want to roll with it. Like you were asking, you know, things came up. I want to be that person where, like, things can come up and yep, I can help with that. I've got my stuff under control. I'm here. I'm ready to help. I'm going to, I'm going to do what needs to be done. And I think in those times of being tired and overwhelmed and things like that, when I'm, when I'm, I'm just so reactive. And my go to is like, why, why, why can't you just do this? Right? Like, why am I the one who's in charge and I'm not? Right. My wife is great. Right. She's a great partner.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Partner.

[Tyler Bryant]

My kids are great. They're really good kids. Like, I'm not in charge. And yet that's what it feels like. Right.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

So.

[Mike Pesca]

So I just want to elicit solicit some observations, either based on Tyler or that you could spring out from what you've heard from Tyler that are some usable techniques or ways to think about anger for a man. For a man like Tyler. For anyone else that you've been studying, Dr. Martin?

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yeah. Part of it is when I think about people like Tyler and others, is doing the things you need to do to take care of yourself. In this case, it was sleep, but it's not just sleep. In other cases, it's staying hydrated, it's spending some time outside getting fresh air, it's eating right, it's doing a lot of those things so that you are taking care of yourself. That's actually going to likely lead to less reactivity when you do experience those kinds of of triggers. I will also acknowledge you mentioned earlier that you have a toddler. It's hard at times to do the things I'm describing. When your life is complicated, when you have full time jobs and when you got young kids like those things. There are just times in your life where it's challenging. Being able to do some of those things is a privilege. Right. So that's one piece. Another piece, too is I would encourage everyone to unpack their worldview the way Tyler has. Right. To pay attention to what some of those core principles are, to pay attention to how those core principles impact how you tend to interpret those types of triggers you experience in your life. And so, in fact, sometimes it can be useful to do it sort of the opposite way that we did with Tyler, Meaning sometimes we can pay attention to the triggers and use those to help us better understand what our core values are.

[Tyler Bryant]

That was actually one of the things that helped with the sound issues that I have is that I realized that, like, those aren't butting up against things that I actually feel are important. They're just irritating me, which means they're not important, which means I need to be the one in charge of letting them go.

[Mike Pesca]

What noises?

[Tyler Bryant]

Oh, all of them. Like scratching your knife across the plate. Everybody in my family speaks with their mouth full. And sometimes I handle that with Grayson, sometimes I don't.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, and maybe tell me if I'm wrong. Some of these other practices that you talk about, the walks, the calmness, the touch and grass, all of that maybe that you don't even realize it, but it shows up in a moment of calm when the knives are scraped.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Yep, that's. That's exactly it. The other piece that's important. It's hard to do those things sometimes. We can't always, like, be, you know, in great shape, but when we are sleep deprived, when we are hungry, when we're thirsty, when we're any of those things, to. To acknowledge that to ourselves and to say the words, some of these things feel worse because I'm tired. And that simply by acknowledging that, we're actually a little bit less likely to react negatively, it also gives us some permission to even step away for a little bit. To say, like, hey, you know what? I'm really tired. I just need some time to be on my own. And then the last piece, when you're feeling the anger building or when you're starting to. Even after you've had a moment where you've reacted to do the. What I think is sort of trite, but still Works approach of deep breathing, of trying to de escalate that activation as quickly as you can through things like grounding, deep breathing. Just sometimes it's just focusing on a specific object or something like that. A mantra is something that people find really helpful.

[Tyler Bryant]

What is. What is grounding?

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Oh, okay. So grounding, there's different ways of doing it, but it's sort of a way of centering yourself. So a really common way is to in any given moment, to say, what are five things I can see right now? What are four things I can touch physically, what are three things that I can hear, what are two things I can, I guess, smell, and one thing I can taste. Sometimes I have a hard time with those last two. But it's that moment. And what it does is it really sort of locks you in to your surroundings in a way that can, by the time you get to the end of that process, you've essentially calmed yourself a little bit.

[Tyler Bryant]

I was just going to say, but it totally takes me out of the argument. But that's the point, right?

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Exactly. And then the last thing is literally that assertive communication piece is thinking about how you can channel that anger into still, given what you said, which I think is really, really pretty important, is I want to have standards. I just also don't want to be. You didn't use these words, but I don't want to be a tyrant. How can I connect those two things? How can I continue to have standards but not make people scared of me or feel bad or be hostile? And the answer to that is how you communicate those expectations and how you like literally how you say those things

[Mike Pesca]

in those moments that sound good, actionable. Tyler.

[Tyler Bryant]

Totally.

[Mike Pesca]

All right, glad we got there. Dr. Ryan Martin, the anger professor, is a psychologist, author and speaker, and he's written why We Get Mad, how to Deal with Angry People and the New Emotion Hacks. And Tyler Bryant B. Teaches physics rather well from what I can glean, and deals with as best he can. Little kids, older kids, a family life and scraping dinner knives. Thank you both so very much.

[Tyler Bryant]

Thank you.

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

Thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

So I have to say, I'm actually pretty proud of Tyler. It might sound condescending. It's not like I'm the Zen master here, but it takes a lot to come on a big burgeoning show like how to a successful podcast bestriding the podcast world and to be vulnerable and to open up. And I did want to give Tyler an accurate edit so I don't make him, on the one hand look like Lewis Black from inside out. But I do want to give you, the audience, a full picture of his anger. So I guess my question is, do you think that's how it landed and how it worked? Drop us a line, Email us at how to ikepesca.com or leave a review about this specific episode or the show on Apple or Pocket Casts or Spotify. You don't need me to name all the apps. You know how to do it. Oh, and if, like Tyler, you want to come on the show and have a How to question answered and you can be open and honest or sufficiently deceptive so it's entertaining, email us once again@how toikepeska.com and today on my other show, the the Gist, which I do every day and invite you to listen to of Ted Dinter Smith, who is trying to get the way we teach math to our kids changed because statistics show you hate math and a brain teaser that he really nails. You'll want to hear that. Look at how many people fall for conspiracy theories. Or you know, you'll see three stray fraudulent votes and people will believe that's evidence of stolen elections. Or, you know, there'll be two fatalities for a driverless car that weren't even the driverless car's fault. And you'll see headlines about driverless cars are unsafe. How to is produced by Jeff Craig and Cory Warra. Michelle Pesca puts the can do in How To. Charles Duhigg founded the program and he's usually a go getter except when it comes to highly caloric airport snacks. Then he begs and and please until I just had to tell him, look,

[Dr. Ryan Martin]

if you're not going to go up and buy the Cinnabon, then you're just not going to get the Cinnabon.

[Mike Pesca]

But I did tell him that extra frosting option down that way lies madness. I'm Mike Pesca, back every week. Answering your questions of how to

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