How To Solve a Mystery

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How To Solve a Mystery"

Podcast: How To! with Mike Pesca
Host: Mike Pesca, Peach Fish Projects
Episode Date: April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Mike Pesca helps listener Brett Rosenberg explore her fascination with mysteries and the allure of becoming a private investigator (PI). Driven by both a longing for adventure and a desire for justice, Brett seeks guidance on whether her love for puzzles translates into a viable PI career—or at least better sleuthing skills. With expert insights from seasoned private investigator Christian Seclecki of Proof and Process in Atlanta, the trio dives deep into the real work of solving mysteries both big and small.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Romance of Mystery and the Gumshoe Persona (00:39 - 11:08)

• Brett’s Background and Motivation

  • Brett introduces herself as a foreign policy advisor with a lifelong “yearning” for justice, inspired by childhood heroes like Encyclopedia Brown, Nancy Drew, and Sherlock Holmes.
  • She craves the “romance and the story of the solve...that moment of just revelation when all the pieces come together.” (03:20)

• Personal Mysteries: From Flirtatious Flutists to the Lady in Pink

  • Brett recounts “the case of the hot flautist” at her coworking space—a humorous investigation resolved when she observed him holding hands with a woman (05:24).
  • She shares her ongoing “white whale”: a 50-year-old woman at her coworking space, known for her all-pink office and Harry Styles memorabilia. Brett’s attempts to learn her backstory have thus far involved only indirect observation and light banter (07:04).

“Frankly, I’m far more into that mystery than I am into this flute player.” — Brett (04:48)

• Methods So Far
  • Observational skills and conversations (e.g., hallway run-ins, casual chats)
  • Avoidance of digital tools or direct questioning, in favor of more “romantic” detective work

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Introducing the Expert: What Private Investigation Is Really Like (12:39 - 20:53)

• Meet Christian Seclecki, PI
  • Christian owns Proof and Process, specializing in legal investigations, skip tracing, and process serving.
  • He emphasizes the crucial PI skill of “elicitation”—getting information indirectly (e.g., by making statements people feel compelled to correct).

“Sometimes it’s learning a little bit about what sort of techniques can be used in personal conversation that will likely draw out an honest answer.” — Christian (14:23)

• The Real Appeal and Skills

  • Intellectual curiosity is essential: “Without the intellectual curiosity and desire to solve problems… it’s difficult to be very good at your job.” (15:00)
  • PIs often come from various backgrounds; Christian started in law, pivoted to e-discovery, and found his passion in piecing together hidden facts (15:21-17:36).

• The Day-to-Day Realities

  • A blend of digital detective work and field activities (e.g., serving documents, stakeouts)
  • Moments of excitement punctuate long periods of patience or tedium

“There’s just no greater feeling in the world. It’s absolutely incredible to get to experience that.” — Christian on solving a case (19:01)

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Tangible Justice vs. Abstract Good (28:20 - 33:48)

• Brett’s “Justice” Motivation
  • Contrasts the scale and impact of her foreign policy work (“steering the aircraft carrier”) with the immediately tangible wins of solving a single person’s problem.
  • Finds the prospect of “a small piece of justice that actually means something to somebody for real… life changing” (29:31).

“That would be something tangible, to see something real happen in the world.” — Brett (29:33)

• Christian’s Perspective
  • Finds “tremendous satisfaction” in discrete wins, even as failures can be demoralizing. The job’s impact is cumulative and personally affirming, especially during streaks of successful days (32:34).

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Techniques and Ethics of Investigation (23:29 - 39:22)

• Positive Identification and Elicitation

  • Christian explains common PI strategies: using context clues, official records, and indirect questioning to ID subjects (21:35-23:29).
  • Warns that identification is often complex and sometimes confirmed only after the fact.

• Avoiding Legal/Ethical Pitfalls

  • Highlights the muddy boundaries between legal and “slimy” investigative techniques, especially in an age of privacy concerns and digital records (24:49-25:44).
  • Cautions Brett against overstepping: “Err on the side of caution…do not run afoul of any stalking or harassment issues.” (35:16)

• Leveraging Personal Skills

  • Christian stresses the value of emotional intelligence in building rapport and drawing information, skills Brett already demonstrates (36:40).
  • Admits his own strengths lie more in data gathering than in-person interviewing, and encourages Brett to “never underestimate the power of just being a nice, positive human being.” (37:41)

“I have very little doubt that this woman would probably tell you just about everything you wanted to know within a couple meetings of her.” — Christian to Brett (37:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | 03:20 | “I often get wrapped up in the romance and the story of the solve…that moment of just revelation…” | Brett | | 04:48 | “Frankly, I’m far more into that mystery than I am into this flute player.” | Brett | | 14:23 | “Sometimes it’s learning… what techniques can be used in conversation that will likely draw out honesty.”| Christian | | 15:00 | “Without the intellectual curiosity and desire to solve problems… it’s difficult to be very good at your job.” | Christian | | 19:01 | “There’s just no greater feeling in the world. It’s absolutely incredible to get to experience that.” | Christian | | 29:31 | “The idea of being able to do a small piece of justice that actually means something to somebody for real is just…life changing for me.” | Brett | | 37:41 | “Never underestimate the power of just being a nice, positive human being.” | Christian |

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Essential Timestamps

• 00:39 — Episode opening & Brett introduces her mystery-solving ambitions
• 03:06 — Brett’s love of the “revelatory” moment in mysteries
• 04:43 — “The case of the hot flautist” and deduction methods
• 07:04 — Introduction of “the lady in pink” coworking mystery
• 12:39 — Private investigator Christian Seclecki joins the episode
• 14:23 — Christian on elicitation & indirect questioning techniques
• 15:21 — The trajectory from law school to PI work and finding one’s calling
• 19:01 — The thrill of the eureka moment in PI work
• 23:29 — How to positively identify elusive individuals
• 28:20 — Contrasting helping millions vs. helping one: the appeal of tangible justice
• 32:34 — The emotional highs and lows of casework as a PI
• 35:16 — Legal and ethical boundaries when investigating (PI advice for Brett)
• 37:41 — The power of empathy and being personable in investigations

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Practical Advice & Takeaways

• On Being a PI: Intellectual curiosity, tenacity, and an ability to piece together disparate clues are crucial. The job isn’t all high drama—there’s a lot of research, paperwork, and patient observation.
• Techniques: Elicitation through indirect questioning; leveraging context clues; balancing digital research and fieldwork.
• Ethics: Stay within the bounds of the law—never overstep privacy or become “slimy,” even for a seemingly harmless office curiosity.
• Leverage Strengths: Emotional intelligence is as valuable as technical/investigative know-how.

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Conclusion

This episode uniquely blends humor, self-examination, and concrete advice. Brett’s search for mystery-solving wisdom reveals both the satisfying realities and the gritty nuances of private investigation. Ultimately, the collaborative energy between Brett, Mike, and Christian demonstrates that the right mix of curiosity, empathy, and ethical rigor is at the heart of cracking cases—whether for a client, a friend, or just the curious inquirer in us all.

Transcript

[A]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contact contacts. But something is happening here. What's this guy's deal? And frankly, I'm far more into that mystery than I am into this flute player.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to How To. I'm Mike Peskin. Our culture, is there a more mysterious and glamorous role than that of the gumshoe, the PI the private dick, the private investigator? Whole genres are built around this figure. They are generally lone wolves. They court danger. They embody our belief that the rot is deep and only the correct gray night can expose it. Not white knight. Part of being a private investigator is a wariness of standing apart from society's ills while playing a small part to protect those harmed by the system. Well, today I have someone who wants to be that. Shall we not say private Dick? But perhaps the gumminess on her shoe reflects a yearning or an itching.

[A]

Hi, I'm Brett Rosenberg. I'm a foreign policy expert and advisor who is currently choosing to squander all of her political capital by going on this podcast.

[B]

How far back does this go, this yearning, this desire to set things right?

[A]

To set things right. Yeah. I have a strong sense of justice, of wanting to get to the bottom of the evils of the world. I read Encyclopedia Brown as a kid. Nancy Drew, Harriet the Spy, Hardy Boys. Fast forward to Sherlock Holmes. Psych. Shaun the psychic spy is really my true hero. So hopefully we can get to the bottom of how to develop those skills today. But I'm really glad I finally found a space to learn how to set the world to rights.

[B]

Yeah. This is the way to do it. Now, I am just going to glean from hearing about your background that you went to set the world right on sort of the macro level by being a foreign policy expert. But this is pursuing your desire to do it one victimized, possibly sympathetic person at a time.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, thankfully, I've solved every foreign policy issue.

[B]

Very good. Yes. So I've looked around the world, and I'm like, oh, who was that? Oh, it was Brett. So you're saying you're taking. You're taking credit for the state of the world today. All the solving is you.

[A]

I may need to revise that statement. But, yes, things are going incredibly well in my professional life, as we've all really seen these days, by which I mean the world is an absolute disaster. And so I'm really looking forward to solving something a little more tangible. And ideally, yeah, let's. Let's solve some things for the little guy.

[B]

Of the aspects of detective work, is it. What is it the going on a sit document dives, or is it the solving the mystery, catching someone in a lie? What aspects most appeal to you?

[A]

So I think I often get wrapped up in the romance and the story of the solve. Right. Of the long, arduous journey to get there, and then that moment of just revelation when all the pieces come together. I would love to be able to experience that.

[B]

So what are some mysteries in your own life that you're looking to crack, if there are any?

[A]

Well, I recently solved a case. I'm not sure if I've told you about this, Mike. This is in the parlance probably of Encyclopedia Brown, the case of the hot flautist. Yeah. So there's a very attractive flute player.

[B]

Not flatist. Not hot flatist. That is something else.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Flautist, yes. Very attractive flute player who for some reason is in my co. Working space that I work out of sometimes. I think he does admin there. And, you know, there's kind of a vibe. He left me the homemade granola on my desk with a sticky note that just said enjoy. And I was like, well, this is the sign, you know? And so I said, we should get a drink. And he said, nah, I'm busy. And then never followed up. And I thought, okay, maybe, maybe once. That's fine. Then we were texting about. He had gone on, like, a stargazing trip, and I was like, oh, well, we should definitely get a drink sometime. He goes, oh, I'm busy. And I was like, okay, I now switch into Encyclopedia Rosenberg brain. This clearly is not gonna happen. But something is happening here. What's this guy's deal, right?

[B]

So he hasn't given you the date you wanted, but he's given you a greater gift, and this is a mystery of his intention.

[A]

Yes, exactly. And frankly, I'm far more into that mystery than I am into this flute player. So now I'm in, you know, gumshoe mode, and I have four hypotheses for what's happening. One, he's Just a flirty guy, you

[B]

know, I'm flirty flautist.

[A]

Two, he's gay. Three, has a girlfriend. These are not mutually exclusive. All of the above.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

And four, I'm delusional. Right? Like that. I am just completely misreading this situation. And he's just a nice person who happens to share homemade muesli with people.

[B]

Right, right, right. Wants to extend his granola brand. Maybe he's doing some grassroots marketing.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And so the way I went about solving this case was really just telling all of my friends about it and just leaning into the story, which I gather is probably not great as an investigator. But then I solved it, we like to say, with my incredible powers of deduction. But it was really, he walked out of the elevator holding the hand of a woman, so that case is closed.

[B]

But you positioned yourself, I mean, you staked him out and you knew which elevator bank he'd be emerging from, right? I'm trying to give you credit here.

[A]

I don't know if I want that much credit because that makes me sound like a major creepazoid, but maybe that's what it takes. And if that's what it takes, I'm willing to do it.

[B]

Okay, so there is a mystery solved, maybe somewhat presented in your lap. Okay.

[A]

Right. But I have a white whale, right. That I'm hoping you'll be able to help me with today. And this is the case of the fully grown 50 year old woman who dresses entirely in pink, has a pink office and has four different pieces of Harry Styles themed artwork. She usually looks like she's going to Coachella. This is a professional co working space. She has a full glassed in office so she knows everyone can see what's going on here. She has brought in a pink rug, a pink credenza, two pink chairs. She has, as I said, probably from Etsy or somewhere like it, Harry Styles artwork all over the place. And there's no walls to tack this up on. So she's brought in the credenza so she can display this artwork and it's directly behind her. So it means as she's sitting on zoom all day, this is what people are seeing. Who is she? What does she do? I just need to know, so what

[B]

have you done to try to crack this case?

[A]

So so far I've really imagined a lot about what might be going through her brain.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I have surreptitiously walked by her office many, many times. I've taken a couple photos to show friends.

[B]

Okay, friends. Have you? Have you tried to engage with any of the other tools of there's this thing called the Internet out there. It's like a lot of friends at once, but also, I have to say, some non friendly people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you tried to use utilize any technology in your quests?

[A]

So I've, I've really tried to keep it old school. I have this romantic notion of just if I hone my powers of observation, then I'll be able to get there. I've had a couple conversations with her. It feels like it would be too easy to straight up ask her what her deal is again. Maybe this is why I'm not a good PI but so far our conversations mostly consist of oh, the fizzy water machine is broken today. How's your coffee? Like that kind of thing. So we're getting there. I'm softening her up. I say to then ask the big question of what on earth is your deal?

[B]

So I don't know in our conversation if we're going to be able to crack the case of the Harry Styles fuchsia infused office mate, but maybe we'll be able to even do something better, which is to give you overall guidance into if this is a future profession or give you the tools to crack similar cases. I do want to know, are there any other aspects of private investigation? What about things like process serving or the investigations of documents? Do any of these compel you?

[A]

Yes. So the process serving I got very into again through. I've been watching the Lincoln Lawyer and that just seems like an incredibly fun pastime that I could really pick up. Process serving, trying to track people down, find them in inopportune moments, have a great line when you deliver it. This is how I imagine professionals do it, not just on television. And then the document side, that actually, joking aside, may be where I could actually thrive. I spend a lot of time reading in my professional life trying to take a vast array of facts and notions and ideas and craft them into some sort of real narrative and figure out what on earth is going on. And so I would love to be able to hone maybe an actual skill in addition to my romantic notion of my Sherlock Holmes future and see where we could go with this.

[B]

Do you think? Because you're a person who has a practical side, but you also quite clearly have a literary side written for McSweeney's. I know you're a screenwriter. Do you think you like to hold on to the notion of the romance as much as you like actually solving the mystery?

[A]

I love the romance of the mystery. I read a lot of mysteries, and when I do, I actually try not to solve it frequently. And part of how I assess a good mystery or a bad mystery novel is if the solution just comes to me because I'm not actively trying, it just means that it was a little too obvious. So I love the romance of the. Of the gumshoe, but I'm trying to maybe embody the more practical side and say, well, let's actually. Let's actually try and solve it. That might make the novels a little less enjoyable, but I feel like it would make my life a lot more exciting.

[B]

I do a similar thing. I try not to solve it. And my trick is I only read mystery novels in French, and I don't read French, But I think I have a person who's going to at least solve the mystery in your life, which is, why can't I? Or how can I become a private detective? And when we return, that figure will step out of the shadow and reveal himself. Back in a minute with how to.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

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[C]

I am Christian so Klecki. I'm the owner and operator of Proof and Process. We are a private investigation and legal consultancy based out of Atlanta, Georgia.

[B]

So I know through your methods of eavesdropping, wiretapping, and you could get into all the legalities of this. I know it goes in a state by state basis. You know, are privy to what Brett and I were communicating about. So top line reactions. Maybe you've heard this sort of idea, ooh, I love mysteries, I love solving mysteries. And then you hear, therefore, private investigator might be a career path for me. What are some of your reactions to that?

[C]

After listening to you talk about the Harry Styles fuchsia laden lady, you know, there are certain mysteries that, that don't have explanations or solutions lying about anywhere else. And you know, in our line of work, there's this term called elicitation. Right. How do you elicit information out of an individual without them feeling pressured or immediately putting their guard up? There's a great guy, you see him online on Instagram reels named Chase Hughes. And he talks a lot about elicitation. And so, for instance, one of the things that he'll do is if he's having a bet with his friend about how much the people at Costco are making per hour, instead of walking up to one of them and saying, hey, how much do you make per hour? What he does is he says, he comes up and says, hey, I just read that you guys are now making $29 per hour. That's fantastic. And what that does is that triggers a person's natural desire to want to correct you and therefore tell you what the truth is. No, that's not true. We're actually making 2450 now. Managers make 29. Right. So sometimes it's learning a little bit about what sort of techniques can be used in personal conversation that will likely draw out an honest answer.

[B]

Okay, so I know that Brett is under no ill conceived opinion that just because she is drawn to the mystery, this means that she could really be a private investigator. Or maybe she could be. But how much does it help someone in the field to just have that natural instinct or curiosity to want to solve? Is it important to have that germ to be a successful PI?

[C]

I believe so. I mean, without the intellectual curiosity and desire to solve problems and solve puzzles, I find it to be difficult to be very good at your job. Now, we have to understand here that just like so many other facets of life and other professions, there are so many different types of doctors, so many different Types of lawyers.

[B]

So Christian came to PI work not through investigating a Harry Styles obsessive or I don't know if the timeline is right for him, maybe a marky mark obsessive. Christian went to law school. He was interested in areas like philosophy of the law, but didn't connect with any field that was out there. Then he got into something called E discovery, which could be considered an early type of AI. Massive amounts of data. And Christian discovers he's good at sifting through the data, at solving puzzles, unearthing truths, finding out things, finding people call it his calling.

[C]

When I graduated from law school, I wasn't exactly sure where I was going to go. So I just tried working in a lot of other different fields. And then what ended up happening was I ended up getting a job working for what's called an E discovery company. One of the very first forms of artificial intelligence that I'm aware of is in the ediscovery world, where basically there are software companies, there are systems that allow litigators to put massive amounts of data into them, and they're able to filter all of that data in order to find appropriate, find relevant aspects in that data that they can use as part of a document review or even as part of an investigation. And so at that point, I really started connecting the dots in my mind between my law school background and the desire to investigate, to unearth facts, to find things that were somewhat hidden, to try to figure out a way to make that process more efficient. And really it was there that I realized I didn't care at all about selling any of these services to our clients. But I cared way more about understanding the operations and actually how these tools work. And so it was around that time that another private investigator in Georgia had just asked me for help on a case. I never thought about becoming a PI, but I helped him on a case and wrote a report. He said it was good, said, can you help me with another one? And all of a sudden, for the first time really in my adult life, I felt like I was on the right track. And it was completely appealing to my understanding about how the law works. My curiosity, my desire to solve puzzles and ultimately do something that made me personally really happy that could also cross over with something that was valuable to somebody else.

[B]

What puzzles are you solving these days?

[C]

My particular mystery that I solve on a day to day basis is finding people. Litigators cannot proceed with their cases. Their injured or aggrieved clients cannot see a courtroom in most cases unless the defendant is found. And Served. Also witnesses need to be found and served right. So ultimately it's an interesting world because it really does straddle the line between the digital in terms of what I'm looking at online and preparing, but also being out in the field and being in the analog world with analog paper and having to deal with space, with noise, with distance, with sometimes racing across a field to get to something in time before they can disappear from view. Sometimes it does involve hiding out. Sometimes you are doing stakeouts. I personally found out very early on in my career that I am not good at these eight hour stakeouts. There are some people who specialize in that.

[B]

Is this a bladder thing or what?

[C]

Listen, I'm not going to lie. At age 48, time constraints are real. Uh, but it's more so I think I'm a little bit too attention deficit oriented, whereby, you know, I need something else exciting happening more quickly. There are certain aspects of the job that do involve a lot of waiting, but then things get exciting very, very fast. And so you can be sitting still for a while, then all of a sudden your cortisol jumps, your adrenaline jumps and next thing you know you're in a situation and you're needing to act very, very quickly in order to try to effectuate your, your objective.

[B]

And then what about the danger of the situation for a person who doesn't want to be found? How do you navigate that?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are some dangerous situations that one can go into. There are people in my field who choose to carry weapons. I personally don't. I find that one of the greatest tools that I have at my disposal is just simply using good judgment about when, what time of day to go into certain areas. So yes, there are dangers anytime you're interacting with the world. I mean, I think ultimately for me, as someone who drives around the metro Atlanta area on a daily basis, the greatest dangers to me are just simply driving, simply putting as many miles on my car as I do and moving around a lot of traffic. But Brett, you were speaking earlier to the thrill of the finding out, the eureka moment. And I can't even begin to tell you how much this happens, not only in the field, but more on the computer. When we solve cases by connecting that final dot on the computer. It's just as exhilarating as it is like running into the person after an eight hour wait and being able to give them their documents. There's just no greater feeling in the world. It's absolutely incredible to get to experience that. Mike, back to your question about what's the ratio of exciting moments versus unexciting moments? I'm very lucky because my specialty is what it is. I have more exciting moments than unexciting.

[B]

So, Brett, it sounds like you were. The mysteries you brought to us were finding out about people who were found who were known to you. What about finding people who were theretofore unknown to you? Fascinating. Compelling.

[A]

Oh, incredibly. I mean, I came in thinking that Christian was going to disabuse me of the notion that this is a romantic, exciting career. Christian, you have done the exact opposite.

[B]

You have abused her.

[A]

Exactly. My notion says have been fully abused. This is wildly cool. Now I just want to go find people.

[B]

So, Christian, let's say that you have to provide a positive ID to positively discern that you've got your man. 1 Aloysius Spurgeon. Let us say I made that up. Like the name, like the rhythm. I bet you don't go up to the fellow and say, you, sir, are you one Aloysius Spurgeon of 1313 Turtledove Place? That's not what you do, is it?

[C]

Yeah. Actually, you're raising one of the most interesting questions in my field, and that is, how do you ID people? Right. It's incredibly hard. Now, there are aspects to this that I can talk about and there are aspects that I cannot talk about.

[B]

Right.

[C]

While I know that 99.9% of Mike's audience are nothing but good intentioned people who have no interest in abusing the system in any way, very few warrants out for them.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

There are some things that we do to try to help to identify people. People who drive cars, they're more easily identified. Why? Because they have a license plate. If that license plate's registered to them, they're essentially driving around in a big nameplate. Right. Of course, other people could be driving that car, but it at least narrows the world. Right. So, you know, we're utilizing other context clues to help us get there. And are there times when we don't know for sure? Absolutely. In fact, we had a case that had been going on for a while. It just landed on my desk about a month ago. They had said, hey, the sheriff had gone out here. They're claiming they don't know this guy. Another process server went out there. They're claiming they don't know the guy. I got out there and not only is this guy's car parked in the parking lot, but the guy who answered the door matched the age on the police report. And I'm sitting there thinking, like, okay, no, this is the guy. So I'm going to go ahead and serve it. Now, I don't write the affidavit immediately because I'm thinking, what are the other tools I can use to identify in this case, because it was a lawsuit based on a vehicle accident, I knew that I could go ahead and serve the documents, go back to my office, notify the client that they need to pull an open records request for the police worn body cam footage when they responded to the accident. Now we get a visual ID of this guy coming out of the car and sure enough, it's a match. Right. So sometimes the identification happens right before you actually serve. Sometimes it happens at the same time and sometimes it happens afterwards.

[B]

Right, right. You get a confirmation. Do these people who don't want to be found, do they go to great lengths? It sounds like sometimes they just say, nah, it wasn't me, and hope that suffices.

[C]

Yeah, there's a really broad spectrum, especially in this day and age. Unfortunately, people are able to manipulate their identification in ways that most people would never consider or would never think of. People have a lot of reasons for wanting to stay hidden and stay under the radar. And so not only is there a recent proliferation of techniques and tools being sold that help people do that, but people are more inclined to use P.O. boxes, UPS store boxes. Right. So we encounter that problem all the time. And while, let's say like in Georgia in theory you are allowed to use a P.O. box on your driver's license, that system gets abused constantly.

[B]

Brett, at the coworking space, do they have to honestly say who they are or what instrument they play in the orchestra?

[A]

You know, I don't think there's a law around it, but it is custom.

[B]

Yeah. And so would you feel, diving into their records, should you gain access to them, would you feel good about that, that you're maybe doing some PI training, or would you feel a little bit like you were violating privacy?

[A]

I would feel incredibly slimy, yeah.

[B]

Now, what about that? What about the aspects, you know, you came from this very above board world. What about the aspects of maybe getting down into the legal, but just this side of legal, could you do it?

[A]

Yeah, it's a great question. I think what's so romantic as well about the sort of the older mysteries, right? The Sherlock Holmes, even the Encyclopedia Brown, all of that is they stay above it, right? Like they're, they're above board, but obviously the much more contemporary fiction, which feels maybe more rooted in reality, it's all about the like the sliminess, the muck, getting, getting the gum on those shoes, which obviously is not where that term comes from. But we'll go with. We'll go with it.

[B]

I was wondering about that. Gum on the shoes. Let's not go into Private Dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

But. And I think that would be a real challenge for me.

[B]

When we come back, I want to ask each of our guests not so much what does a gum shoe do, but what is sacrificed when you go from solving the world's problems to solving one mystery or tracing one skip at a time. That's when our program continues.

[C]

However did you guess, Mr. Holmes? Mrs. Smith?

[A]

I never guess. Foreign. My name is Shannon Maldonado. I'm the founder of Yaoi, a gift shop. From the lens of artists and handmade objects, I chose Shopify because when I was testing other platforms, it was definitely one of the most user friendly. It was important to me to think about where we would be in the future. All of the tools for reading your sales, like planning inventory, they're just right there on your dashboard. For anyone starting a small business, the biggest thing I can tell you, it doesn't have to be perfect. Shopify can help you build upon it. Start your free trial on shopify.com if

[B]

you're looking for another podcast that brings therapy resources to your earbuds, then check out the self work podcast. Ten years ago, Dr. Margaret Rutherford decided to extend the walls of her psychology practice as far as they could go, and the Self Work Podcast was born. Each week, Dr. Margaret dives into an issue in mental health that she's personally researched, adding in her own two bits from over 30 years of experience. And you'll also hear the interviews with creative and informative guests who bring their own experience to the table. Her warm Southern drawl soothes and comforts. She's about as down to earth as they come. Rated by many as the best depression podcast out there, Self Work stresses what you can do about it. So if you're seeking ideas and actions to move yourself forward, Self Work is for you. Find it on your favorite podcast app and tell them how to sent you. We're back with how to how to solve a mystery. And Brett, one, not mystery, but question I did have for you, you, the State Department White House veteran, is that you have a background, you've dedicated your life to solving global issues. You have clearly failed. But solving issues for masses of humanity, Right? And it's also interesting to you, I presume. But what about a profession where instead of trying to help a Million people at a time, and again, totally not succeeding. What about just one person at a time? Maybe doing one small act of justice? Would that appeal to you? Is that your actual motivation in life?

[A]

I actually find that incredibly appealing in the moment for exactly the reason that you just identified, which is the massive success of my career in solving world peace, increasing human development and flourishing to.

[B]

Sorry to interrupt, but you knew going in like, yes, you weren't really going to be able to do it, but did you actually think I would by the time I'm 40, have moved the needle a little more?

[A]

I still have a few years to get to 40, so hopefully by then I will have moved the needle. But let's back up for a sec. There is no person who goes into this field who thinks they're going to be able to solve world peace. Right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, there are generations long fights and problems, and it's intellectually interesting, but I am motivated more by the justice side than the intellect side. And this is an odd moment to be a foreign policy person where even the minor accomplishments that might not register on any human scale other than my own have all been erased by this administration and sort of the back and forth and the idea of being able to do a small piece of justice that actually means something to somebody for real is just. That would be life changing for me. Right.

[B]

Like that would be something tangible to

[A]

see something real happen in the world. Tangible. And. Yeah, it's very inspiring, Christian. It's very, very cool.

[B]

Brett, let me throw something out there. Now, you might have been in a position to help hundreds of thousands, millions of people.

[A]

You hope.

[B]

We hope. We all hope. But the tradeoff is that you can only move the needle a little so much. Like President Obama used to say, you're steering an oil tanker, an aircraft carrier, I think is what he said, a couple of degrees. It matters. But the view doesn't change that much. And someone else might be driving, I don't know, a cigarette boat or are they even really. Do they have a turning radius? A jet ski? And they can turn hard and fast and watch one person's life change right in front of them. And they knew who they did what for and that it worked. And the challenge for someone working on your aircraft carrier scale is to feel like someone's happening. Yes, USS Chester Nimitz. Yes, Gerald Ford. Turn, baby, turn. But you might not even be right about where it's going. So I'm just curious if you ever, even if not in nautical metaphors, I'm just curious if you ever think about things like that?

[A]

Oh, all the time. Moving the aircraft carrier, the oil tanker, the ship of state, whatever it is. It takes an enormous amount of energy to just slightly change the trajectory. But if you do, you could be benefiting hundreds of thousands, millions of people. I think that requires a very abstract notion of humanity, of progress and of justice. And I think there's a lot to be said for being able to help your neighbor or being able to just solve a case for someone.

[B]

And there's probably a lot of it's very susceptible to self deception.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. One of my old bosses had this great New Yorker cartoon on his wall to sort of remind us of that. It was a sushi counter and behind it was a, you know, sushi chef chopping up the sushi and a giant squid wearing a sushi chef hat also chopping up the fish. And the chef turns to the customer and says of the, of the squid, he thinks he can do more good from within the system. And I think it's such a good, such a good reminder of the self delusion of some of this that you feel, you know, you're spending hours a day, you're talking about the big questions, you have all these wonderful intentions and the reality is you may be making no difference at all. You may be making an incredibly counterproductive difference and actually setting back what your ideals are.

[B]

Christian, what about you? Do you ever say to yourself, I got my man, I crack the case. But at scale, am I really taking, am I really either having a big impact on the world or am I really like the squid? Working within a system that deserves to be upheld.

[C]

I get to work on a lot of cases per month as a private investigator who focuses on what I do, which is ultimately providing consultant services to litigators. Skip tracing and sometimes serving.

[B]

What's skip tracing?

[C]

So skip tracing is just an old term for like someone who skipped town, right? It was a term. Now it's used as a catch all term to refer to finding a person. But you know, I get the chance to work on a lot of cases. There are some days I get to close out, you know, 5, 10, 15 matters in one day. Now that is not all by myself, I have a wonderful team that I get to work with. But you know, I think, Mike, to your ultimate point. Yes, I do. I get a lot of discreet wins. They happen sometimes on an hourly basis. And so there is something very, very affirming about that. In fact, it's just an easy thing to admit. Like if I have a couple Series of days where I'm not getting any of those discrete wins. It can get hard. You get kind of get beat down because you find yourself failing over and over and over again. Of course, like with all things, it all seems to come in waves. There are some days where I can do nothing wrong, and then there are days when nothing's going right. People are sicking dogs on me. I got people that want to fight me. You never really know kind of what you're going to get into. But, Mike, to your ultimate point, I do find that tremendous amount of satisfaction from getting those discreet wins that happen on a repeated basis.

[B]

Let's do this. Let us in the time we have. Christian, to the extent that Bret really wants to solve and not cultivate this mystery, do you have any advice on just ways to get at the case of the Fuchsia Laden Harry Styles fan?

[C]

I mean, you know, you know her name, right?

[A]

No, I don't.

[C]

Okay, you don't know her name. All right. You don't know her name, but you know where she lives?

[A]

I mean, I know where her co working space location is.

[C]

It's a co working space. Gotcha. Do you know if she gets there by car or she walks?

[A]

Great question. I can tail her and find out.

[C]

Okay. All right.

[B]

So do you do that? Do you put a tail on someone ever, Christian?

[C]

Oh, of course. In fact, you know, I want to just immediately set the record straight. One of the most common, misunderstood things about being a PI Is that it's easy to tail somebody in a car. It is incredibly difficult to tail somebody in a car, especially if you're by yourself. I've done it on a couple occasions where it was absolutely needed. But ultimately, if you're in certain areas with too much traffic or it's too rural, it's impossible not to be spotted or it's impossible to keep up with them, with traffic being what it is, Brett, ultimately though, like, because right now you don't have a legal reason for running her tag, Right. I would not advise you to. To run her tag or otherwise run afoul of any stalking or harassment issues. Now, I don't know what state you live in.

[A]

I'm in New York.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So look, I know several very good private investigators in New York. I'm not as familiar with New York laws as I am with Georgia, but I would definitely advise you to err on the side of caution.

[B]

But she can get her name pretty easily, right? Her mail gets delivered and.

[A]

Yeah, I could ask her, too.

[B]

Well, yeah. How should she ask her, hi, I'm Brett. And then she'll give her first name

[C]

and then actually, you know what? This is, this is a great point. And this actually takes us back to. It circles back to towards the beginning of the podcast. Mike, one of the things you had asked is about whether or not it can help if somebody is just naturally curious. And one of the things that I wanted to say to Brett, after sitting here with you, because of how smart you are, because of how personable you are, you have, I believe, a really strong level of emotional intelligence. You seem very, very empathetic. And you seem like the type of person that other people feel comfortable around. And I want to distinguish you from weaponize that. I, on the other hand, am not so much. I'm a weird, quirky dude. I'm not very persuasive when people talk. Christian, listen. When people talk about. When people talk about, you know, someone being persuasive, it's an area that is absolutely one of my weaknesses. In fact, I'll just give you another anecdote. Sometimes my clients will say to me, christian, I want you to go out and interview this witness because I want to know if they have something good or bad to say about our case. My success rate is like below 20% on those jobs. I'm just not that good when it comes to building the kind of rapport that's really needed to elicit a long amount of information. Can I get a few pieces of information out quickly? Yes. But can I sustain that rapport for long enough to be able to be truly effective in that environment? No. I'm just simply not that good. So when my clients say, hey, I need you to find someone, one of my first questions is always, well, for what? What do you to do once they're found? If they want me to engage in an hour long conversation, I'm going to say, look, I'll help you find them, but I don't want to be the guy to go talk to them for an hour. If you want me to serve them with a subpoena, I'm happy to do that, but I'm not going to be the guy to try to elicit information for an hour. So with that being said, let's never underestimate the power of just being a nice, positive human being. People are willing to share information with other positive human beings. And so I don't want to minimize your mystery here, Brett, but I have very little doubt that this woman would probably tell you just about everything you wanted to know within a couple meetings of Her.

[A]

Well, what I'm hearing is that we need to combine our powers and team up as a crime fighting unit.

[C]

I could use a counterpart who has higher emotional intelligence. That's very true.

[B]

Don't you think that your perceived lack of person ability. And we're not seeing that. That on this. Not at all, not at all. Has helped you develop the other traits as compensation?

[C]

Absolutely, 100%. I've had to learn how to be a little bit more crafty and clever. I've had to take some proactive steps to keep myself safe that involve, I mean, sometimes it's just the slight change of a garment. So if I'm walking through a really, really tough neighborhood and I need to go talk to some lady who lives in the back corner apartment and you know, listen, I'm a Caucasian male. There are certain neighborhoods in Atlanta where I stand out. And if I go walking in there dressed like this, I may look like a cop to those people. I may get stopped. They may. Nobody may want to cooperate with me whatsoever in order for me to get there. The idea is that you're just trying to play into somebody's confirmation bias. You know, you want to look at them or they look at you and they immediately think one thing and you don't give them a reason to come question it. Right. And it's not about trying to fool other people. It's simply about trying to be safe. It's about trying to be effective, and it's about ultimately, hopefully doing your job and being able to do it well without too much interruption or disruption.

[B]

All right, Brett, you have any last questions for our private investigator? Not that he'll answer you honestly, or even wearing an outfit that reflects his true nature.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Christian, when can I come on a ride along?

[C]

Oh, my goodness. You know, if you really, really want to, I will leave the option available. It can be a little. Can be a little rough running around the northern half of Atlanta on a very, very regular basis, but if you truly do make it down this direction, I would love to have you don't

[A]

make an offer you don't really mean. Mike, we're going to have to do a follow up podcast is what I'm hearing that.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Hopefully not posthumously. All right, so I think, I think we've. I think we've answered some questions and I'm very happy that there was a lot of abuse here and almost no disabusing. So that was not what I expected either. Thank you both very much, very much. Brett Rosenberg is a foreign policy expert who served in the White House, the Department of State, the Senate, and has written for Foreign affairs, foreign policy and McSweeney's. Thank you, Brett.

[A]

Thank you so much, Mike. It's been so much fun.

[B]

Christian Seclecki has owned and operated Proof and Process, a private investigation and legal consultation firm based in Georgia. Christian, thank you so much.

[C]

It's been such a pleasure. I've really enjoyed it.

[B]

And be safe out there. And may all your vests be either reflective or bulletproof as the situation warrants. Thank you guys both so much. And that's it for the show. If you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and review. I say this all the time. We've got two ratings on the Apple podcast app. I love those people. We also have experts on hand to answer so many of your questions, parenting questions, questions about the gut. Email us at how to ikepeska.com we just might have you on the show. And this week on the other show, I do the gist. Sarah Isger drops by to discuss her book Last Branch Standing, a potentially surprising, occasionally witty journey inside today's Supreme Court.

[A]

If presidents were guaranteed two Supreme Court justices, they would name them while they're campaigning and those people would campaign with them. It'd be a four person ticket, president, vice president, and your two justices. And so then the second, after they leave the the campaign trail, they go onto the court. That's not good for the institutional, you know, independence of the institution.

[B]

We only promised occasionally Witty how to is produced by Jeff Craig and Cory Wara. Michelle Pesca puts the can do in How To. Charles Duhigg is not only founder of the show, but a best selling author and perhaps best known for his mixtures of rolled oats, flaxseed and dried fruit.

[A]

He's just a nice person who happens to share homemade muesli with people.

[B]

It's a calling. I'm Mike Peska, back every week. Answering your questions of how to. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.