Episode Overview

Podcast: How We Made Your Mother (Presented: Arts Educators Save The World)
Hosts: Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas
Guest: Deborah Lapidus (NYU Acting/Singing Teacher)
Date: August 22, 2025

This bonus crossover episode features Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby from How I Met Your Mother) in conversation with Deborah Lapidus, a beloved mentor from his NYU Tisch School of the Arts days, hosted by Erica Rosenfeld Halvorson and Alec Lev. The conversation centers on the transformative power of arts education, mentorship, risk-taking, and the lifelong impact of a supportive teacher-student dynamic. Through funny, poignant, and deeply reflective moments, Josh and Deb illustrate how arts educators don’t just teach technique—they nurture courage, authenticity, and deep personal growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Teacher-Student Relationship: Warmth, Humor, and Belonging

• Josh describes his transition to NYU (08:17–09:29):
  Feeling like an outsider from Ohio, Josh credits Deb for making him feel at home—her warmth, clarity, and humor created a welcoming space where he "felt like I had a right to be there."
• Deb’s impressions of Josh and her teaching approach (10:11–11:52):
  Deb remembers Josh as witty and energetic—not "wallowing in actor despair"—and highlights the importance of recognizing students as individuals, humor as a form of connection, and the reciprocal nature of learning.

Quote:

“There was just something clear and welcoming about her style and her class. I felt at home, and I felt like I had a right to be there.”
—Josh Radnor (09:29)

“With Josh, the way he felt about me is how I felt about Josh. It just felt like we knew each other already.”
—Deb Lapidus (10:17)

"Healthy Permission to Fail": Redefining Success in the Arts (and Beyond)

• Failure as necessary for growth (12:52–15:14):
  Josh and Deb discuss how an ideal learning space isn't about technical perfection, but about providing room to try, fail, and try again.
• Deb’s philosophy:
  Technical mastery is secondary to vulnerability, effort, and risk-taking. Success is less about "getting it right" than showing up fully and courageously.

Quote:

“What’s important to me is doing the work. … There’s nothing that interests me less than just purely technical singing. I like to feel there’s a person at home ... I want to feel like I know the person more through their work.”
—Deb Lapidus (15:20)

“There was a very healthy permission to fail ... you didn’t care if someone was a Broadway-level singer or a total novice. You really dealt with people on their own terms.”
—Josh Radnor (12:52)

[Timestamp: 15:14–18:39]
Deb discusses how singing is especially vulnerable—students bring lifelong baggage and personal histories into the room. The greatest “failure” is not trying; the most courageous act is attempting what is terrifying or difficult.

Risk-Taking and the Role of the Arts in Education

• NYU as a crucible for risk and shame tolerance (18:39–21:03):
  Josh compares drama school to a daily “exposure to your limits and your tolerance for shame”, recounting his own humiliations and growth.
• Coaching students on meaning over pure mechanics:
  Deb focused more on the text and emotional connection than technical precision, echoing the idea that meaning provides the breath and energy for performance.

Quote:

“If someone was hooked up to the meaning, their breath was in the right place ... you were much less interested in breath control and pitch than you were in ‘what are you trying to communicate?’”
—Josh Radnor (20:00)

Play to the Smartest People in the Room (21:03–21:28)

• Deb's famous advice:
  “Play to the smartest people in the room.” Josh has carried this into his writing and performances, resisting the urge to "sand the edges off" his work for broader appeal.

Quote:

“The people who this is meant for, who are going to get it, are going to get it, and maybe someone else will get it on a different level.”
—Josh Radnor (21:19)

“Always play to the smartest people in the room.”
—Deb Lapidus (21:03)

The Emotional Life of Teaching and Artistry

• Modeling vulnerability:
  Deb reflects on allowing herself to show emotion as a teacher, concluding that authentic engagement and shared vulnerability foster trust and learning (22:17–23:42).
• Scaffolding for risk:
  Host Erica expands on this, linking it to learning theory—the arts as the quintessential space for risk-taking, and the necessity for safe failure in any classroom.

Quote:

“Actors are asked to be so vulnerable ... If there’s going to be a really creative exchange in the room, you have to put yourself out there as a teacher as much as students put themselves out there.”
—Deb Lapidus (22:17)

On Humility, Admitting "I Don't Know," and the Mission of Arts Teaching

• Good teaching means honest humility (28:36–29:05):
  Deb argues that a good educator readily admits not knowing, correcting themselves publicly when needed.
• Lifelong impact:
  Josh highlights Deb's legacy: authentic NYU and Juilliard graduates shaping theater, film, and television.

Quote:

“One of the most liberating and difficult things to say as a teacher is ‘I don’t know.’ … A humility is important.”
—Deb Lapidus (28:36–29:05)

The Artist Citizen: A Sense of Mission (30:47–32:44)

• From Deb and NYU Chair Zelda Fichandler:
  The program instilled the idea that art serves a larger community and emotional purpose—students learned to value vulnerability and risk as meaningful, not frivolous.

“She imbued us all with a feeling that we were doing something consequential for the collective.”
—Josh Radnor (31:01)

• Letting go to move forward:

“To go up, you have to let go. … There’s some loss in learning.”
—Deb Lapidus (32:31)

Personal Reflections, Love, and Letting Go

• Mutual admiration:
  Josh and Deb share a warm, grateful exchange about the real emotional bond forged through teaching (33:08–33:37).
• Deb debunks the myth of “breaking down” actors:
  She calls the concept cruel and reaffirms the intention of building up, not dismantling the unique spark that admits a student in the first place (34:20–34:53).
• Imposter syndrome as endemic to acting:
  (“It’s me.” —Josh Radnor, 35:32), sharing how Deb’s class was an oasis of safety.

Why Teach? Why Mentor?

• The joy of seeing students grow and transform:
  Deb describes the moments of witnessing someone do what they couldn’t before as the most invigorating aspect of teaching (35:54–36:49).

Music, Storytelling, and the Artist’s Urgency to Communicate

• Music as vital to Josh’s identity:
  His roots in musical theater and Deb’s mentorship shaped his approach as a storyteller—technical perfection isn’t the goal; honest communication is paramount (37:08–38:37).

Quote:

“That technical prowess and perfection is not ever the goal. The goal is, does this move me?”
—Josh Radnor (37:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(Speaker attribution & timestamps provided)

• “There was just something clear and welcoming about her style and her class. I felt at home, and I felt like I had a right to be there.”
  —Josh Radnor (09:29)

• “The only way to really fail is to not try … Trying to do something that you don’t do very well is one of the most courageous things you can possibly do.”
  —Deb Lapidus (16:55)

• “Always play to the smartest people in the room.”
  —Deb Lapidus (21:03)

• “Let the audience put two and two together, and they’ll love you forever.”
  —Josh Radnor quoting Billy Wilder (21:19)

• “One of the most liberating and difficult things to say as a teacher is ‘I don’t know.’”
  —Deb Lapidus (28:36)

• “Prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child.”
  —Josh Radnor (29:32)

• “To go up, you have to let go … to learn something, you have to let go of something.”
  —Deb Lapidus (32:31)

• “All of NYU in some ways felt like The Karate Kid training sequence … you kind of have to put it all together, but you are getting this education.”
  —Josh Radnor (33:37)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |----------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:17–10:11 | Josh & Deb's first impressions; feeling welcomed at NYU | | 10:11–11:52 | Deb on Josh’s qualities as a student | | 12:52–15:14 | "Healthy permission to fail"; Deb on redefining success | | 15:14–18:39 | Vulnerability, courage, and the meaning of singing | | 20:00–21:28 | "Play to the smartest people in the room" | | 22:17–23:42 | Teacher vulnerability and creative reciprocity | | 28:36–29:05 | The power of "I don’t know" in teaching | | 30:47–32:44 | NYU mission: artist citizen, emotional purpose | | 33:08–33:37 | Mutual gratitude and warmth; metaphors for artistic training | | 34:20–34:53 | Deb on not “breaking down” actors | | 35:54–36:49 | What inspires Deb to keep teaching | | 37:08–38:37 | Music’s roots for Josh and Deb’s vital influence |

Episode Takeaways

• Mentorship transforms lives through humor, presence, and individualized support.
• The arts’ greatest lesson: providing safe spaces to risk, fail, and authentically grow—an approach all disciplines can benefit from.
• Authenticity, not perfection, creates lasting impact in both arts and education.
• Teachers and students co-create the classroom; vulnerability should be reciprocal.
• Art has collective and personal value—an artist’s mission matters.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking authentic insights into mentorship, the creative process, and the lasting power of great arts educators.