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- [00:00]
Josh Radner
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Craig Thomas
Hello, and welcome to a very, very special bonus episode of how we made your mother. Ones we like to call general questions.
- [00:23]
Josh Radner
General, general questions.
- [00:26]
Craig Thomas
Now I feel like everyone's crossing a little too much. Is there a lag? General questions, general questions, general questions. No, no, Alex, it's technology. You invented this. It's not game and you can barely play it anyway. I'm Josh Radner. I am here with my co host, Craig Thomas. We are talking about how. Hello, Craig. We're talking about how I met your mother episode. What is this 10, the limo episode.
- [00:56]
Josh Radner
It's 11. It's 11. It's eleven because. Yeah, it's the exact midpoint. Right. 2011 out of 22. Boom. Midpoint pivoting into what's to come.
- [01:04]
Craig Thomas
Episode 11, the limo, which we covered pretty in depth in the last regular episode. But here are we answering your questions about the limo and we can go a little deeper into the themes here. But Alec, what do you got for us? What did, what did the people want to know about?
- [01:27]
Alec Lev
Sure. The first one, a question that we did answer in the regular episode. But then she says something very cool that I want to point out. Charlotte. 33333. She wants to know about how you shot in the limo. But we did cover that. I just want to mention that she says, I studied this episode in class and I've watched it and read the script about 20 times. I, I said to her, what class? Yeah, and she said, english class, talking about gender dynamics in 2000s sitcoms. Discuss.
- [01:57]
Josh Radner
Oh my gosh. Oh my God. Well, first of all, if there, if she wrote a paper or did anything like any material about that, please, Charlotte, send it to us because that would be amazing to see. I'm wondering why that episode, why does that episode exemplify something about that topic in her mind? Alec, I'm just going to ask you all these questions and as if you have the answers to them.
- [02:17]
Alec Lev
I don't have any answers.
- [02:18]
Josh Radner
And then you'll talk about them on your general question questions later that you do separately from this one.
- [02:23]
Craig Thomas
Yeah, I mean, I imagine if, if something is of its moment, culturally, even if it at the time doesn't look like it would be an obvious candidate for a course of study in college. If you're, if you're sociologically inclined, historically inclined, like it does make sense to pay attention to, because contained within that is a lot of moors and customs. I mean, it's like Jane Austen or something like you want to know about that time look back on was popular at the time. So. But I am curious. I'm straining to remember one thing that happens to me.
- [02:58]
Josh Radner
Why this one?
- [02:59]
Craig Thomas
My brain gets hooked on the episode we're currently on, and it's hard for me to get back into the space of limo, just as it was hard to get back into the actual limo after a break. But, yeah. What do you guys think regarding gender dynamics within the episode?
- [03:17]
Josh Radner
I wonder if it was just chosen at random. Like, if it was just like, well, let's take a how I met your mother episode and just choose it. It's just going to exemplify that in that time, it was just throwing a dart at the board. It could have been any episode. Or if it's this one, I mean, the whole show. We talk about this all the time on this podcast of. There is a gender flip on this show. Right. These are men being, like, sensitive and wanting. Ted and Marshall wanting this sort of domesticity and wanting to have a family and wanting to get married. And Barney is obviously the outlier, and we're against all that. And then these two women are often sort of like, embodying more masculine traits at times, especially Robyn, but Lily, too, really. And so we did play with that. It wasn't your average, average sitcom sort of reinforcing old tropes at the time. I felt like it was kind of fresher tropes or creating its own little world and milieu of it all. Again, I wonder if that's what Charlotte was talking about. I hope so. I hope it wasn't like, this show's terrible in its portrayal of trait. I don't know if she tore out a new one or if she was like. But we definitely liked exploring and sort of subverting some of those older gender tropes on the show, for sure.
- [04:23]
Craig Thomas
Yeah. Well, certainly that's all at play, and we've all talked about that a. A little bit. But I also think there's something interesting about how women are portrayed on the show more generally. Robin and Lily and certain other female characters are given a very rich interior life and dimensionality. And then there are other women who float through as kind of like ditzy Barney toy things. Just that kind of are that week's kind of sacrificial thing at the Barney altar or something. And I think part of that is set up to show Barney's evolution, that he looks at women. He quite literally objectifies them. They are objects. They are playthings. It's about wit, not depth. It's about.
- [05:25]
Josh Radner
Yes.
- [05:26]
Craig Thomas
I mean, a kind of crude term is body Count, you know, how many women can he be with even in one night? You know, how many numbers can he get? How many connections can he forge? How many women can he take home or get to their place? But, but, you know, that does set him up for later to be kind of rocked and surprised and not entirely pleasantly to find himself falling for, you know, various women, you know.
- [05:54]
Josh Radner
Yeah. And one thing I like better, the thing I like best with Barney about these early episodes or any episodes of the show is watching him just how much he fails. It's like his ruses work such a slim percentage of the time, and he's clearly making a lot of these numbers up. And in fact, when you see him succeed and he does sort of like lie his way into, like, hooking up with a woman, it's far less enjoyable to watch because you're like, no, maybe he shouldn't be succeeding at this point. And in that sense, that's sort of like when we have those women on the show, I'm like, oh, we didn't do much. We didn't do them a favor here. You know, like a woman actually being seduced by Barney. Like, it's not a great role to play. She's sort of in a helpless position at that point. And it's much. I sort of cringe at some of that now. I think the far better thing with Barney is to watch things not work out for him.
- [06:42]
Craig Thomas
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's kind of the, it's kind of the tricky. We've talked about this, but like, you know, we, we talked about like Oliver Stone and Gordon Gekko, Right. Like, Oliver Stone is an incredibly left wing filmmaker who was trying to create a villain, and that villain became a hero to a certain kind of stockbroker dude. You know, posters on the dorm and, and all kinds of stuff. Greed is good getting flipped around as if that's a virtue instead of a condemnation. And I think whenever you're trying to portray, you know, let's say, like racism or something, you, you, you know, it's quite ugly to watch. And you're depending on the good faith interpretation of the audience to see that as something odious, but in the wrong hands, it can be repurposed. You know what I'm saying?
- [07:33]
Josh Radner
Yes, yes.
- [07:34]
Craig Thomas
So.
- [07:34]
Josh Radner
So when, when context really matters here.
- [07:37]
Craig Thomas
Yeah. Like when people want me to sign.
- [07:38]
Josh Radner
It and then it gets removed from kind.
- [07:40]
Craig Thomas
Yeah, yeah. People want me to sign the Bro Code. And I sometimes want to say, like, how are you reading this book? Like, what?
- [07:46]
Josh Radner
Yeah, yeah. Supposed to be a parody.
- [07:49]
Craig Thomas
Yeah. Like, and sometimes people adopt it as their life philosophy. And that's always been. I think your. And Carter's difficulty in talking about Barney are getting, you know, kind of rattled when people say, like, oh, you couldn't get away with that, you know, today. And you're like, we weren't trying to get away with it back then. We were. We were holding it up for a kind of mockery or a kind of, you know, we never wanted people to be on the side of him. But. But that's also a testament to Neil's seductive powers. You know, he played him as seductive, charming guy that.
- [08:20]
Josh Radner
So charming, so likable. Yeah, he humanized the role. And the journey with Barney over nine seasons was to humanize him and see the kind of. The broken parts of him that led him to be that way and to show some amount of evolution. But of course, people like picking out the fun parts, right? Picking out the sort of literal, like, ah, the Bro Code. Let's talk about the Bro Code. And it's great. It's fine if people want to watch it that way. But I suspect it kind of. It feels to Carter and I, as the creators of the show, probably kind of like when Bruce Springsteen hears people thinking Born in the USA is a patriotic song, right? And you realize that people have not listened to one word of anything but the chorus, Born in the USA like, they've just heard those few words and the rest of the words just go by completely unnoticed under the radar. And if you read them or if you study those words, they are very much not a page. They are a searing critique of America and war and, you know, economic realities and how we treat our veterans. Like, it's an amazing song that's completely misunderstood and Bruce Springsteen must be out of his mind for 40 years. Like, this is not what this is. And sometimes it's that way with Barney. And somehow we got here from gender stuff. But I guess it still relates, right? We're still on topic.
- [09:33]
Craig Thomas
But yeah, no, I think it's a big. I think it's a big thing to discuss. And, you know, he. He was. Yeah, he was emblematic of it. I. I also think there's something. I think there's something fun about watching people behave terribly it. Like. Oh, yeah, I remember Wes Craven said something about, like, we. We. Horror movies don't provoke bad behavior. They actually replace it. Like, it allows us to experience our shadow in a collective way. That's actually quite healthy. And I think, you know, sometimes we can watch. I mean, it's just fun to watch characters misbehave because we know we would never do that. You know, I think, like, what's his face? Ricky Gervais has talked about, like, how uncomfortable he is personally making people feel uncomfortable. And creating the office allowed him to play a character that just walks right into the propeller blades all the time. But it was something that he couldn't bear doing in his real life, so he got to do it in a fictional way and kind of work it out that way. And I think, you know, that's part of the joy of Barney is he seems to be unshackled by certain societal mores that, that I at least have agreed to. And you. You guys have agreed to them and not to say that I would want to behave like Barney if I was given the choice. I actually wouldn't. But there's something. You know, I had a wonderful drama teacher in college. Harleen Marley was her name. She was a real men. But she. She always said, you know, plays are just. All plays are about sex and money. That's all any play is about. You know, and there was never any kind of virtue or moralizing around it. It was always like, can you just highlight the. The darker, grosser, ugly, you know, the dark underbelly of these characters? Like, that's what we really want to watch. And I think we do go to the theater and, and, and watch tv. Yes. Meet love, virtue. But there's also, you know, we don't trust a story, I think, that doesn't mix dark and light. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. Craig, you were just at your alma mater, Wesleyan University.
- [12:06]
Josh Radner
My God. Our first road trip as a podcast. It's a trial by fire. You got it. Every podcast has to at some point. Get on the road. Yeah. Get on the road.
- [12:15]
Craig Thomas
Yeah.
- [12:16]
Josh Radner
Take the show on the road. Like vaudeville of your. You've got to go prove yourself in the small towns. In this case, Middletown, Connecticut. Yeah. Carter Bayes, my writing partner, and I met. How I met Carter. We met at Wesleyan University. That's where I went to college from 1993 to 1997. Because we're. Cause we old. That's why that works. That's how that works. And we didn't meet at the beginning of college. We became bandmates sort of in the middle of college. We were in a nine man soul band and there was a horn section and we all wore really cheap thrift store suits. Alec Lev, our producer, was at probably every one of our shows, I would think because he was my housemate and roommate and dorm mate all four years. Although sometimes you forget that I even went to college. That's. We'll talk about that again at some point.
- [13:03]
Craig Thomas
How long had it been since you've been on campus?
- [13:05]
Josh Radner
Before we went, we did Carter and I after himye amended, like, sort of a Q and A hymnyum related panel there. But that's already, like, 10 years ago.
- [13:13]
Craig Thomas
Yeah.
- [13:14]
Josh Radner
We're part of some other, like, panel of, like, a bunch of other people, like Leslie and media maybe five or six years ago, but it's been literally years. And it's also where I met my wife, Rebecca, who is sort of the basis for Lily. And of course, we had all of these wonderful characters from how much yout Mother. We made their backstory. They went and met to Ed Wesleyan, and it's still a big part of their life. So that's why we decided this would be our first road trip.
- [13:37]
Craig Thomas
How I Met yout Mother fans are. They all feel a kind of ownership of the show because it's so deeply now in their bloodstream. But I'll tell you, when Wesleyan grads come up to me, they say it like, I went to Wesleyan.
- [13:50]
Josh Radner
Yeah.
- [13:51]
Craig Thomas
And I'm like, I didn't.
- [13:54]
Josh Radner
You are the closest to having gone to Wesley.
- [13:56]
Craig Thomas
Grand. I'm the closest to having gone to Wesleyan. Who didn't go to Wesley. But what's it like? What was it like to just step onto campus and realize, like, wow, I'm not 20 anymore?
- [14:06]
Josh Radner
Oh, yeah. No, you feel it. You really, really feel it. You feel like. You kind of feel like you're still that person, but then you see people who really are 19 and 20, and you realize, like, that's not me anymore. But, yes, we all got to do this. And we were on the road, and there was no flaws to the plan, and we did everything right. Right, Josh, there's nothing we didn't think of.
- [14:25]
Craig Thomas
I don't know if there was no flaws to the plan, Craig, because you just.
- [14:29]
Josh Radner
Well, what do you mean?
- [14:30]
Craig Thomas
Well, you just. You were in Connecticut, and then you stayed in Connecticut a little while longer.
- [14:34]
Josh Radner
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I stayed there. I stayed there.
- [14:36]
Craig Thomas
Yeah. What's. What was going on with your. Your place back. You know, like, back home.
- [14:41]
Josh Radner
You know, I was just sitting here, not making me any money or what.
- [14:44]
Craig Thomas
Yeah, exactly.
- [14:46]
Josh Radner
Huh?
- [14:46]
Craig Thomas
Exactly.
- [14:47]
Josh Radner
Oh, and that's bad?
- [14:48]
Craig Thomas
Yeah. You should be making money on your place every time you get. Every time you leave.
- [14:53]
Josh Radner
Well, Josh, what should I have done? What should I have done?
- [14:56]
Craig Thomas
I think we've been over this, and I think you know what you should have done. And I want you to say it. I want you to say it.
- [15:01]
Josh Radner
Okay, you know what? This is like, I'm not gonna learn unless I say it. Yeah, this is like, okay, I'm gonna say it. And this time it's really gonna stick. Guys, while I was away, and while any of you were away, here's what you could have done. Here's what I could have done. I could have hosted my place on Airbnb and made a little extra cash. Right? That's what I should have done. I'm man enough to admit it now. In retrospect, you gotta think of this before, though. You don't want to look back with regret. Guys, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host.
- [15:43]
Alec Lev
I was also just thinking about two characters in television, Archie Bunker and Sam Malone, who are deeply, especially Archie, but deeply dark. And Sam Malone and Barney have clear similarities. And as a Cheers fan, this must have been on your mind.
- [15:59]
Josh Radner
It's my favorite show of all time, so I would say that we were. And Carter's too. So we were. We should probably be sued for how similar the characters are. In some ways, I really suggest James and James Burroughs. I don't think he's got that much money, so he'd probably sue me and Carter. I think it's probably a good idea. No, but seriously, like, I was thinking too, Michael, in those articles, sometimes I see an article you can't get, like, just like you said, Josh, they wouldn't be able to get away with Barney today. And sometimes they see that same thing about, like, Michael Scott about, you know, that character. And it's like, again, I don't think they were advocating for any boss to behave like Michael Scott. I don't think that was Steve Carell's aim or the creators of the Office's aim.
- [16:37]
Craig Thomas
They're on the side of the looks to the camera. They're the looks to the guy. That's where they want you to live, your sympathies, to live there.
- [16:46]
Josh Radner
And we are in the reaction shots to the other characters reacting to Barney. That's where Carter and I are on that side. But when Barney gets to show that he's really a human being underneath it all, I think. And same thing with Michael Scott. I think there's such value to that and there's such. It can be very moving, right? When you get a little peek, when you realize there's a human underneath the Darth Vader costume. It's like, it's very powerful to realize that.
- [17:09]
Craig Thomas
You know, my mom used to say, you know, if kids can't get good attention, they'll get bad attention. Right. Like, there's always. I've heard it said that everything we say is either an expression of love or a. Or a cry for love, you know?
- [17:25]
Josh Radner
Yeah.
- [17:25]
Craig Thomas
And it feels like Barney is just crying for love. He just. It just comes out in such strange ways, you know?
- [17:32]
Josh Radner
Yeah.
- [17:32]
Alec Lev
Well, question two.
- [17:36]
Josh Radner
Our answer there was longer than Charlotte's term paper for the.
- [17:39]
Craig Thomas
Our answer there was longer than the episode of the limo. It was longer than an actual limo. Hey.
- [17:47]
Alec Lev
That'S great. All right, well, hard turn here. We obviously have a lot of people who are very, very interested in the Get Psych mix with Living on a Prayer, not Living on a Prayer with Help Me. What's the Bon Jovi song that gets.
- [18:01]
Josh Radner
You Give Love a band Living out of Prayer. Also a great song, but you Give Love a bad name.
- [18:05]
Alec Lev
Living out of Prayer starts a little slowly, so you probably.
- [18:08]
Josh Radner
It doesn't have that punch at the beginning. That's why we didn't use that.
- [18:11]
Alec Lev
But a lot of people want to hear about that. People are telling me on the Internet that somewhere there's a screenshot of the full mix and the Internet has figured out what all the songs are. Yes, one person mentions. I searched the full list. Raphael Saldano, 07 says, I searched the full list of Barney's Get Psych Mix, and one of the tracks was the Transformers theme. Love to hear.
- [18:38]
Craig Thomas
Wait, I have a question about that. I have a question about that. So if there's a shot of that, did you and Carter or any writer write that out, or is that Dave Baker, our props guy?
- [18:48]
Josh Radner
We wrote it out. Gosh, I can't remember. We definitely did, like, a Barney's blog, I think, at the time, or something where we just put the list out there somehow.
- [18:56]
Craig Thomas
And is that something you crowd. So, like, would you give that to the associate or the assistant writers or.
- [19:01]
Josh Radner
Yeah, I think the writers assistants might have written it up. We probably pitched the room. Probably pitched on, like, what are other songs would it be? And you probably said the writer assistants and script coordinator. Like. Like, can you go write a Barney's blog of this? Can you write something where we put this out there somehow, what this is? And I've seen people recreate it on Spotify. There's, like, lists of it. I think there might have been some discrepancies and errors, because I think the case had a list, and people zoomed in on it, and I think some of it was wrong. I think maybe it had the wrong first song even on it. The prop itself was not actually the list I think, that we put out. So there's just some discrepancies there.
- [19:31]
Craig Thomas
But I would like to give a shout out to the How I Met yout Mother song sleuths. The Mosby Boys of the How I Met yout Mother verse, which are incredible. Like, I remember when Selena Gomez posted a shot of kind of. You could see she was watching How I Met yout Mother. And it was just the five of us around the table. And I remember I reposted it and I said, what episode is this? You know, and it. It had no. There was nothing overly signifying what episode was other than, I think, what clothes we were wearing. And all these people wrote me back and they're like, that's so and so. Like, that's this episode.
- [20:08]
Josh Radner
That's wild. Wow.
- [20:09]
Craig Thomas
Right? I mean, it's.
- [20:10]
Josh Radner
I don't know if I could have said what season it was.
- [20:12]
Craig Thomas
I know. I know. But also, shout out to Selena Gomez. We would love to have you on the show and talk about how we met your mother. We know you like it, so we.
- [20:22]
Josh Radner
Are honored to talk to us.
- [20:24]
Craig Thomas
Yeah.
- [20:25]
Josh Radner
Yes.
- [20:25]
Alec Lev
Yeah, I'm looking here. There's many versions of what's on the Get Psyched mix. People have posted this, but I can see you give love a bad name. I see. Don't Stop Believing the Transformers theme song. Jesse's Girl Transformers theme song.
- [20:38]
Josh Radner
Come on. That's a Getseg song.
- [20:40]
Craig Thomas
You know what I just saw, Craig, do you know that the SNL sketch where Rick Springfield is. Is trying to. To lay down Jesse's Girl? And it's the drummer. His drummer is Jesse and his girlfriend sitting there and he's like, playing it, and the drummer's like, what? What's. What. What are you saying? He's like, come on, man. It's just a song.
- [21:00]
Josh Radner
That's so funny. I don't know. I've never seen that. That's a good idea.
- [21:03]
Craig Thomas
Yeah.
- [21:04]
Alec Lev
But Severin, Willie 99 and so many others would like to know what songs are on your personal Get Psyched list. Maybe one or two you want to throw away.
- [21:14]
Josh Radner
What song psychs you up no matter what. You know, what's my driving Get Psych mix? If I really have a long drive and I know it's gonna be like, open Road. You can't play this. You can't hit play on this. When you get in the car and you're in the city and then you're in gridlock. Cause it just feels ironic and sad. But the Joshua Tree by U2.
- [21:30]
Craig Thomas
Oh, yes.
- [21:31]
Josh Radner
Greatest driving album ever made.
- [21:33]
Craig Thomas
You're right.
- [21:34]
Josh Radner
That is the get psychedist Dr. Driving album of all time.
- [21:37]
Craig Thomas
Yes.
- [21:38]
Alec Lev
And as I drive personally, for me, I. I go. I lean right into it as I'm heading east on the 10.
- [21:43]
Josh Radner
Yeah.
- [21:43]
Alec Lev
Towards Joshua Tree. There's no.
- [21:45]
Josh Radner
You do that.
- [21:45]
Craig Thomas
Yeah.
- [21:46]
Josh Radner
I remember driving to Joshua Tree one time, listening to Joshua Tree. But you have to know you have some highway, because I've got. I've made the mistake of getting on. Like, I'm in, you know, this New York City. All right, we're going away for the weekend. Joshua Tree, where the streets have no name. Let's do this. And. And you just stop in traffic and it's like, I want to run. And you're like, no, I'm standing still. Bono running to stand still. Josh, this is why I love you.
- [22:10]
Craig Thomas
Well, also, the Joshua Tree, which is an all timer for me, is. You do not want to shuffle that. It is perfectly ordered, too.
- [22:18]
Josh Radner
Oh, my God.
- [22:19]
Craig Thomas
Like, every song is in the right place.
- [22:21]
Josh Radner
You can't excerpt a song. You have to listen the whole album. Yeah.
- [22:24]
Craig Thomas
And then if I listen. If I listen to all of Joshua Tree, I'm like. I think I'm going Unforgettable fire. Like, I'll just roll backwards. I stopped, I went. I was so into U2, like, in eighth grade, ninth grade. Like, I was so deep. And Joshua Tree, I. I got off the boat was rattle in a hum right after that.
- [22:43]
Josh Radner
Yeah.
- [22:43]
Craig Thomas
Yeah. I never got into that record. Like, I just. I just left the. The U2 fold after that. But those early records are some of my favorite things ever.
- [22:52]
Josh Radner
Oh, my God. I mean, the funny thing is, though, you. I got so obsessed with Joshua Tree that I never fully embraced any other whole door album. Like, even though I love Octun Baby, I love some of those early ones. Joshua Tree, I would put it up with Abbey Road. It's like one of the. That's another great one to drive to, by the way, because it will kill that 50 minutes, however long it is, because you could just roll through it. So I'm like more of a get psyched album dude, I think, than a get psyched song.
- [23:16]
Craig Thomas
Isn't it weird that a band like U2, they couldn't be bigger and yet they're somehow underrated all at the same time?
- [23:25]
Josh Radner
Yes.
- [23:27]
Craig Thomas
Like, it's a strange phenomenon. Like, they're better than you think they are in weird ways. Like they, you know, and. And I think, yeah, it's hard when things become so popular and they're around for so long. They kind of like you stop appreciating them because they're a little bit in the background. HUM rattles I. I've got a couple of like, like bigger deep cuts like. Like Fuji's and Lauryn Hill. Like, really get. Get me going. And there's a song by Trevor hall called Indigo that I love so much that I could listen to all. Whenever it comes on, I won't take it off. There's an also an early Genesis. Follow you. Follow me. Do you know that tune?
- [24:04]
Josh Radner
I don't know that tune.
- [24:05]
Craig Thomas
Oh my God, it's so good. I. Do you ever have a song that kind of like. Like you'll hear it in a taxi or like it comes to you right when you need it?
- [24:15]
Josh Radner
Yes.
- [24:16]
Craig Thomas
Like, like, yeah, we'll find you when you. Yeah, yeah. It's like a hand on the shoulder from God song. Like where you're like, oh, I needed to be reminded. Like, I'm cared for in its benevolent universe. Thank you. Phil Collins and Genesis. You know that one for me really, really does it. I. I'm sure I have so many.
- [24:33]
Josh Radner
But under press Crusher, David Bowie, Queen. That one will find me sometimes at.
- [24:36]
Craig Thomas
The right young Americans.
- [24:38]
Josh Radner
Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what's another great Door to Door get psyched album to bring this full circle. And I. I don't think we're ending the episode on this, but Born in the USA door. I just listen to an album on a drive. Door to door. Holy crap, that's good. Like Joshua Tree. There's not a bad one. There's just not. There's no miss. And it's a perfectly ordered.
- [24:57]
Craig Thomas
Do you know what else is an incredible Springsteen album that is worth a revisit is the Rising.
- [25:03]
Josh Radner
Oh, yeah, that's a really good album.
- [25:04]
Craig Thomas
Yeah.
- [25:05]
Josh Radner
You kind of forget about that one because it felt later. Remember, it was like later Springsteen, but it's still 25 years ago somehow.
- [25:09]
Craig Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:11]
Josh Radner
It's like the Simpsons. Like there's no later said. Like there's only the middle of the Simpsons at this point.
- [25:17]
Craig Thomas
Right. It's all middle.
- [25:20]
Alec Lev
Well, let's just wrap this up here with a little talk about Ted for a second here. Brian. Underscore Nar says was the perfect New Year's Eve concept meant to satirize how much pressure people put on the holiday or was it more about Ted's optimism and need for control.
- [25:39]
Josh Radner
That's a good question. I think the latter. I think Ted, it's need. Ted's need for control, because that's how. That's the condition of the start of that episode. And Ted's sort of progress in the episode is to relinquish control and say, the party is just right here. We don't have to stick to the schedule.
- [25:54]
Craig Thomas
Also, I think it's doing both of those things. I think good art is operating on multiple levels. Everything that the questioner just asked, all of that's in there. So I don't know that you can reduce it to like, okay, it was really about this. No, it was about all those things.
- [26:07]
Josh Radner
It kind of was all those things.
- [26:08]
Craig Thomas
But I think New Year's Eve is actually a perfect holiday to put Ted under the microscope for, because it is a night that is so fraught with expectation and planning and also making future plans, saying goodbye. Like, Ted is so sentimental about time and the passage of time and chapters ending and new chapters beginning. Like, he really does mark things and he gets very nostalgic. But he also has this unshakable optimism about what's ahead. But I also think some of that he had to be disabused of as the show went on. I mean, so shocked at how much of this first season is about Ted's need to plan and control things and Barney trying to shake him out of that. But really the whole show shaking him out of this overly kind of overly determined life. And it's asking him to not surrender control entirely, but at least partner, like, do a dance more with the universe, which I think he has to learn.
- [27:18]
Josh Radner
People will dance.
- [27:19]
Craig Thomas
People will dance. I'm not going to worry about it. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.
- [27:31]
Alec Lev
How we made your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Anna Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Want some merch? Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's music newsletters on Substack. Order Craig Thomas debut novel@craigthomaswriter.com novel and you could subscribe to My Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will, in fact, dance.
- [29:04]
Craig Thomas
The real question it just hit me. Am I in love?