General Questions | S1E12 "The Wedding"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother

Episode: General Questions | S1E12 "The Wedding"
Release Date: June 19, 2025
Hosts: Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas

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Introduction

In this special bonus episode of How We Made Your Mother, titled "General Questions | S1E12 'The Wedding'", hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve into the intricacies of one of How I Met Your Mother's most memorable episodes—the twelfth episode of the first season, aptly named "The Wedding." This episode serves as a pivotal moment in the series, introducing the character Victoria and setting the stage for future narratives.

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Celebrating the Team Behind the Scenes

Josh and Craig begin by acknowledging the invaluable contributions of their production team. Alec Lev, the producer extraordinaire, receives significant shout-outs for his role in curating fan content and maintaining the podcast's quality. Additionally, Doug Matica and Emily Blumberg are commended for their research and digital content management, respectively.

Notable Quote:

Alec Lev [01:25]: "Thank you, Alec, for that. Every time I start to cry."

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Deep Dive into "The Wedding" Episode

The discussion shifts to the episode "The Wedding," where Josh and Craig explore the introduction of Victoria, portrayed by Ashley Williams. They discuss how this character made a lasting impact despite her brief screen time.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas [03:20]: "She's in this episode for eight seconds, but, boy, does she make an impact."

Josh Radnor [03:37]: "It's a real, like, movie star kind of reveal. Right? Like, it's such a good chill reveal."

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Casting Victoria: Chemistry and Impact

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the casting of Ashley Williams as Victoria. The hosts reflect on the chemistry between Ashley and Josh Radnor, emphasizing how crucial it was for her character to captivate the audience instantly.

Notable Quotes:

Alec Lev [03:49]: "It's very cinematic... you know what that is? That's a fucking movie star."

Craig Thomas [06:42]: "Josh, mixed up in all. Did you do a chemistry read with her? ...she had done a lot of shows and stuff, so she really knew how to just drop in."

Josh highlights the seamless integration of Victoria into the show, praising Ashley's ability to "make herself at home" and her professional demeanor on set.

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The Writing Process and Audience Feedback

Craig delves into the challenges of writing a show without the immediate feedback mechanisms available today, such as social media. They relied on reviews and intelligent critiques to gauge audience reactions. The decision to bring back Victoria was driven by both audience appreciation and the creators' genuine affection for the character.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas [04:57]: "It was our gut. It was just how we all felt. We all fell in love with her."

Alec Lev [14:54]: "We had already gotten picked up for the back nine because the show had done well enough."

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Balancing Mystery and Narrative Structure

The hosts discuss the delicate balance between maintaining the central mystery of "the mother" while developing the show's broader themes of love, friendship, and destiny. They touch upon the narrative strategies used to keep fans engaged without revealing too much too soon.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor [17:28]: "There's something about how I met your mother puts mystery back at the center of things."

Craig Thomas [19:29]: "Ted surrenders his preconception... it's a complete moment of surrender."

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Themes of Fate and Transcendence

Josh offers a philosophical take, linking the show's themes to broader concepts of fate and the human longing for something beyond the material world. He suggests that the magic of How I Met Your Mother lies in its ability to enchant and offer a sense of transcendence.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor [19:02]: "We don't want to believe. I find that part of the magic of How I Met Your Mother is that there's magic in it."

Craig Thomas [21:53]: "Ted is constantly... Can you force it into being versus how much do you have to surrender yourself to something larger?"

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Character Development and Emotional Beats

The conversation touches on Ted's character arc, highlighting moments where he either pushes to control his destiny or learns to let go, thereby receiving emotional rewards. They discuss instances like the episode "Drumroll, Please," where Ted's romanticism is both celebrated and mocked, creating a nuanced portrayal of his character.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor [23:13]: "You're feeling it. You are that guy. You know, you're really living with Ted."

Craig Thomas [23:37]: "You're feeling it. You are that guy."

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Fan Engagement and Theoretical Questions

Throughout the episode, Josh and Craig address various fan questions, ranging from character motivations to behind-the-scenes decisions. They explore theories about the timing of Victoria's introduction and its implications for the overarching narrative.

Notable Quotes:

Alec Lev [13:50]: "Were you ready for her to be the mother if you were canceled halfway through?"

Craig Thomas [15:00]: "Ted sees Victoria across the crowded room... you have to wait till the next part of that."

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Conclusion and Reflections

As the episode wraps up, Josh and Craig reflect on the enduring legacy of How I Met Your Mother. They emphasize the show's unique ability to blend humor with heartfelt moments, making it a beloved staple in pop culture. The hosts also touch upon the challenges and triumphs of maintaining the show's mystique while delivering compelling storytelling.

Notable Quote:

Josh Radnor [19:58]: "There's something about it puts mystery back at the center of things... allows the universe to be enchanted again."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of How We Made Your Mother offers an insightful exploration into the making of How I Met Your Mother, particularly focusing on "The Wedding" episode. Through candid discussions, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and philosophical musings, Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas provide fans and newcomers alike with a deeper appreciation of the show's craftsmanship and enduring appeal.

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Note: For further engagement, listeners are encouraged to visit howwemadeyourmother.com and follow the hosts on their social media platforms.

Transcript

[Josh Radnor]

Foreign. Hello, and welcome to another very special bonus episode of how we made your mother. These episodes, of course, we're calling General questions. General questions.

[Craig Thomas]

General questions. Easy. That was it.

[Josh Radnor]

You discussed me.

[Craig Thomas]

We didn't. No.

[Alec Lev]

Who discussed you?

[Craig Thomas]

That was a good one.

[Josh Radnor]

There's a lag. There's a lag.

[Craig Thomas]

There's a lag.

[Alec Lev]

It's.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, we all need to be in the same room. Come on. Let's all. Let's all be.

[Josh Radnor]

I imagine if we all got in the same room, we would just crush this.

[Craig Thomas]

We would.

[Josh Radnor]

So we. A couple days ago, we. We released the episode where we talked about the wedding, which was, I think, episode 12 of the first season of How I Met your Mother, which is the show we're talking about, how I Met yout Mother, which ran on CBS from 2005 to 2014, but has had a wonderful, thrilling, brilliant afterlife. People keep discovering the show and on.

[Craig Thomas]

Hulu and Netflix, I should point out. Please keep watching it on both of those.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

Watch every episode on both so we get picked up to continue being on both. Give us the numbers.

[Josh Radnor]

So we covered a lot of ground on the wedding. I loved our conversation. I love all of these. Craig and Alec, I'm having such a nice time scrolling down memory lane with both of you and huge shout out.

[Craig Thomas]

To Alec Lev, by the way. Right. Like our producer extraordinaire. And Alec puts these things together at the beginning of episodes where we hear from fans, the main episodes, not the bonus ones, but, boy, is it beautiful. Thank you, Alec, for that. Every time I start to cry.

[Josh Radnor]

So, yeah, you're welcome.

[Craig Thomas]

Cheers to Alec Lev.

[Alec Lev]

Well, thank you. And I will additionally, I will addendumly shout out Doug, who does a lot of the research and reads through a lot of all these letters. And Emily, who's joined the show, who's also going through all of these, choosing the best, best openers, best closers for you guys. So it's a.

[Craig Thomas]

It's phenomenal.

[Alec Lev]

It takes a village. And Alex. Let's talk about Alex for a second. We have an engineer. That's the. That's it. That you've. You've just heard the entire premium team. Alex is our engineer who mixes all this. Makes it sound great.

[Craig Thomas]

We love you all. It's great. Thank you. And thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

And Alec, that's it. That's.

[Craig Thomas]

That's the series finale. Sounds like we're signing off for good.

[Josh Radnor]

Alec, you are. You are such a smart, smart film guy. I. I rarely write a screenplay that I don't run by you. Because you're so smart about structure. And it occurs to me that in the. The main episodes, we're really doing a three act structure. We have a three act structure for this podcast. Right. It's intuitively very satisfying the way you're structuring this show.

[Alec Lev]

And I think it does happen though, because you guys start, you ramp up, you talk in general about the episode and then general about the episode. Then you, you get into the heart of the episode and then we, we all things have three acts, beginning, middles and ends. But thank you both. This is the absolute joy of a lifetime.

[Josh Radnor]

All right, so what do people want to know more about where they want us to go deeper on this episode of the Wedding?

[Alec Lev]

Lots of stuff. I mean, the overall feeling is a deep love for Victoria, for Ashley Williams, and many, many questions. Even though that was the last 10 seconds.

[Craig Thomas]

She's in this episode for eight seconds, but, boy, does she make an impact.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a real, like, movie star kind of reveal. Right? Like, it's such a good chill reveal.

[Craig Thomas]

I get a chill when I watch that moment. And big shout out to Death Cab for Cutie for that song. That song is so great. The combination of seeing her and seeing your reaction, Josh, to seeing her and like. And that song, it's just. That is a. A himyeon moment. One of my favorites.

[Alec Lev]

It's very cinematic. I remember to make the ultimate comparison for Ashley, Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca. Her reveal is sitting behind this table. Basically, Rick is walking. All of a sudden she's there. And in the screenwriting course by Robert McKee, he's showing this scene and he pauses it right after her and he says, you know what that is? That's a fucking movie star.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Alec Lev]

And yeah, that reveal of her, I mean, you just.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, it's a movie star moment. Yes.

[Alec Lev]

You tell us to fall in love with her in that moment and it's hard. It's really hard. So we'll just ask not too much about her more for the next episode. I'm totally lying. I think she's in every question here.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, it feels like one episode. That's the thing. It feels like she's in. It just feels like one big one hour episode. That's what's hard about this.

[Alec Lev]

Lauren Axel says, did Craig and Carter always have the intention of bringing Victoria back for a later storyline or was it just because the audience loved her so much? How, how do you, as writers, inside the cave of 20th, how did you know the audience's reaction to her as an actor and as a Character.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a good question. 2005, pre Twitter, pre lots of social media, pre smartphones. You're not getting as much live action feedback and you get the good and the bad of those two things. But Wemp, there was some of that. And you saw comment section, you saw like reviews written up of the show and you saw people. Because by this point in the season, this is the beginning of the second half of season one, right? It's 22 episodes. It's episode 12. We had some dedicated people, like people, the Onion, Navy Club and people who wrote very intelligently about the show in a dedicated way every week. And you just saw people spark to her, right? The people that wrote about the show and the people that you trusted their voice writing about the show. And that was interesting, but really it was our gut. It was just how we all felt. We all fell in love with her. Ashley Williams is so. Is a magical, wonderful human being that you kind of fall in love with when you meet her. She's just like got this incredible energy. You feel like you know her right away and there's just charm and depth and she's just delightful. So we're kind of just working off of that instinct of we just loved her. And Josh had such chemistry with her. What a tall order, right? She's coming into the show and Josh and Kobi have this certain chemistry, right? Like Ted and Robin. And she's coming in and she's got to steal the audience's attention away from this thing we've been investing them in for half a season and say, wait, no, Robin's off doing the 11 o' clock news. Check out who Ted's going to meet at this wedding to hold that space and instantly command our attention the way she does in that final shot. And you felt the chemistry between the two of you. I think, Josh, it's like you notice that, right? She rose to that challenge.

[Josh Radnor]

You can almost feel the moment she appears on screen. The Team Victoria army assembles. Like, it just feels like people are like just on her side. Is that the mother? I love her. I want her. I mean, she's so winning. She just has the. That thing, that ineffable, ineffable. That thing that you can't explain. But it really. And you know, I, I always was amazed at the guest stars who really made an impact because it's a hard gig, first of all, to just guest star because you're, you're coming into a thing where the series regulars are so comfortable, especially by the 12th episode, the first season, even in later years, more. But it's like, that's our home, right? So they're. They're. They're coming in, and the people that can come in and really do it. I mean, she had. She'd been at it for a while. She'd done a lot of shows and stuff, so she really knew how to just drop in to, you know, she was respectful, but she also, like, you know, she made herself at home, and she. I always loved when Ashley was on set. I had such a good time with her. I got to know her husband real well, who's the best? You know, like, there was just. There was. There was such ease with her being there. And the other thing is, you know, as an actor, you. You show. You know, they probably called her and they said, you're going to be in the end of one episode and you'll lead into another. So she's booked for basically two episodes, and then you get the call, hey, they're bringing you back for another episode. Oh, they're bringing you back for another episode. Like, you know, as an actor, if they keep bringing you back, like, you're doing something right. And I think, you know, not that she didn't have a lot of confidence, but her, you know, your confidence grows because you're like, oh, they want me to be part of this. The constellation of characters in this thing.

[Craig Thomas]

I remember the feeling, too. At this point in the season, right in the middle of the season, we knew we couldn't do every single week a mislead of like, is this the mother? No, it's not. Gotcha. Is this the mother? Is this the mother? We knew we had to make it count. So I remember, like, the pressure on this, on casting this, because we're like, this is going to be a real mislead. This is really going to be. This could be the mother. This is someone that has the gravitas and the charm and the wit and the sparkle to be. To potentially be the mother. We really wanted people to believe that in the moment. And that's a tough. That's a really tough person to find. And with Ashley, you just knew it. You knew it right away. We saw a lot of people, and she was just right. She just fit in with everybody immediately. You could picture her being part of the series, right? It felt like she could become a series regular basically by the end of a couple episodes.

[Josh Radnor]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. Craig, you were just at your alma mater, Wesleyan University.

[Craig Thomas]

My God. Our first Road trip as a podcast. It's a trial by fire. You gotta. Every podcast has to at some point, get on the road.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Take it on. Take the show on the road like vaudeville. Of your. Of your. You've got to go prove yourself in the small towns. In this case, Middletown, Connecticut. Yeah. Carter Bayes, my writing partner, and I met how I met Carter. We met at Wesleyan University. That's where I went to college from 1993 to 1997. Because we old. That's why that works. That's how that works. And we didn't meet at the beginning of college. We became bandmates sort of in the middle of college. We were in a nine man soul band and there was a horn section and we all wore really cheap thrift store suits. Alec Lev, our producer, was at probably every one of our shows, I would think, because he was my housemate and roommate and dorm mate all four years. Although sometimes you forget that I even went to college. We'll talk about that again at some point.

[Josh Radnor]

How long had it been since you've been on campus?

[Craig Thomas]

Before we went, we did Carter and I. After him. Amanda did like sort of a Q and A hymnym related panel there, but that's already like 10 years ago. We're part of some other, like, panel of like a bunch of other people, like Wesleyan Media, maybe five or six years ago, but it's been literally years. And it's also where I met my wife, Rebecca, who is sort of the basis for Lily. And of course, we had all of these wonderful characters from How Much Mother We Made their backstory. They went and met to Ed Wesleyan, and it's still a big part of their life. So that's why we decided to decided this would be our first road trip.

[Josh Radnor]

How I Met yout Mother fans are. They all feel a kind of ownership of the show because it's so deeply now in their bloodstream. But I'll tell you, when Wesleyan grads come up to me, they say it like, I went to Wesleyan.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I'm like, I didn't.

[Craig Thomas]

You are the closest to having gone to Wesley.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm the closest to having gone to Wesleyan. Who didn't go to Wesleyan. But what's it like? What was it like to. To just step onto campus and realize, like, wow, I'm not 20 anymore?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah. No, you feel it. You really, really feel it. You feel like. You kind of feel like you're still that person, but then you see people who really are 19 and 20 and you realize like, that's not me. Anymore.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

But, yes, we all got to do this, and we were on the road, and there was no flaws to the plan, and we did everything right. Right, Josh? There's nothing we didn't think of.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know if there was no flaws to the plan, Craig, because you just.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, what do you mean?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, you just. You were in Connecticut, and then you stayed in Connecticut a little while longer.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I stayed there. I stayed there.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

What's. What was going on with your. Your place back. You know, like, back home, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Just sitting here, not making me any money. What?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

Huh.

[Josh Radnor]

Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, and that's bad?

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You should be making money on your place every time you get. Every time you leave.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, Josh, what should I have done? What should I have done?

[Josh Radnor]

I think we've been over this, and I think you know what you should have done, and I want you to say it. I want you to say, okay, you know what?

[Craig Thomas]

This is like, I'm not gonna learn unless I say it. This is like, okay, I'm gonna say it, and this time, it's really gonna stick. Guys, while I was away, and while any of you were away, here's what you could have done. Here's what I could have done. I could have hosted my place on Airbnb and made a little extra cash. Right? That's what I should have done. I'm man enough to admit it now. In retrospect. You got to think of this before, though. You don't want to look back with regret, guys. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.

[Alec Lev]

I'm going to sort of gather up a lot of people's questions. I'll shout out some names here. Ryan Schwartz, TV. Jamie Redfern, Terry OD02. Lot of questions right off of what you two are asking. Many people have a theory that since this was heading towards the 13th episode, which was the first amount of episodes that were bought. Right, right. That a lot of people are asking, were you ready for her to be the mother if you were canceled halfway through? Many people asked this question. I'll just ask that one. Yes. No. Was that ever in your thoughts?

[Craig Thomas]

We had already gotten picked up for the back nine because the show had done well enough. But, you know, in the back of our heads, we probably did put something big there, either thinking if it had to wrap up speedily, we could somehow achieve that if we had to scramble that. But also, it was like, let's put something big right There right at the end of the. It's at the end of these couple. These couple of episodes. We had to leave them wanting more. We had to make the network be like, we made the right decision. We are not going to cancel this show. So, yeah, that was in our heads. It's important to remember back to that. Right. We were just a season one show. We didn't know anything. We were not a hit. Or, you know, as we were building, we're finding an audience. And it's. It's a really good question to remember back to those. Those were the stakes.

[Josh Radnor]

It's kind of funny also that How I Met yout Mother fans are. They're not just lovers of the show. They at this point understand, like, oh, yeah, they got the initial 13 order. We don't know if they got the back nine yet. They're very well. They're well versed in TV lingo and they understand that, like, you're structuring. You know, at this point, you really only had one season of television to deal with.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, you might not have gotten more than 22 episodes. So in some ways, you have to have the ripcord ready to go.

[Craig Thomas]

And another thing about that, remembering back to that time is you had to wait a week to see what the hell was going to happen. Ted sees Victoria across the crowded room. This amazing shot, this amazing song. Boom. You have to wait till a week from then. You have to wait till the next Monday to see the next part of that. And I can't emphasize enough how we were writing it like that. Right. This was not a binge show. Binging wasn't a thing. There wasn't streaming services. You didn't have every show, every episode you wanted to see right at your fingertips all the time. And it was so. It was a product of its time. And I think in a good way, and I like it when streamers even now make you wait a week between shows. I still think that is a good way to do tv.

[Josh Radnor]

Also, your favorite commercial break bit, as Marshall makes popcorn. Three minutes, comes back with the popcorn.

[Craig Thomas]

That moment in Pineapple Incident really owned the commercial break. That was the landscape of how the show is communicated at that time. There was no other way to watch it.

[Alec Lev]

It's like people wanted to meet the mother, but it'd be pretty anticlimactic if it was just, how do we meet her? I just met her.

[Craig Thomas]

That was her.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alec Lev]

I just met her on a wedding.

[Craig Thomas]

We got canceled.

[Josh Radnor]

I do think it's. It's funny there There were, at least when the show was on the air, I noticed a lot more people, you know, even coming up to me or journalists asking about it. There was this obsession with, like, who's the mother? Who is it? Like, we struck. I mean, we've talked about, like, this is really a show about a chosen family in New York City going through their 20s and 30s together. Like, that's what the show is broadly. But there was this central theme or mystery that, that you guys were stringing the thing through the. Through line of it. And there are certain people that were so obsessed with that mystery that I don't remember, I don't know. I used to tell people, like, well, what if it is? Like, then it's over. Like, don't you want to watch more of this show that you're enjoying? And if we tell you who the mother is, the show's over. So we're not going to do that right now. Like, we're good. It's almost like this is tantra. This isn't like wham, bam, thank you. This is like, this is like we're going to play with the energy. We're going to bring the energy up, we're going to bring it down, you know, like this.

[Craig Thomas]

Alec, this is your clip. This is your clip. Let your mother. It's the TV show version of tantric sex. Yeah, that's.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[Craig Thomas]

That's. Look, I mean, you don't say the butler did it in act one of the mystery, right? You can't. Like Agatha Christie. Like, you got to wait for it. So. Yeah, I wait for it.

[Josh Radnor]

One of the big themes of the show. Wait for it.

[Craig Thomas]

Wait for it.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And what's taking so long? Hey, what's taking so long?

[Alec Lev]

Josh, mixed up in all. In the questions that all those folks asked. Did you do a chemistry read with her? Does that happen in the midst of.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a great question, Josh. Do you think we did that because it was so important that you two be good together? Do you think we brought you into that audition process at all? I can't. God, this is old guy theater here.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what I can't remember. The year was off 5, Alec. We should ask Ashley that when she comes on the show. Yeah, because I can't remember. My feeling is we did not. I remember being told that she was going to play the part and she had done a series with a good friend of mine, Mark Feuerstein, and I had met her, I had seen. I'd been to a taping of this show. And I had met her, so I knew who she was and I. And I knew she was great. So I was delighted when I heard she was going to do it. But I don't really remember reading with people. But Ashley might have a different memory, so let's dog ear that to ask her.

[Alec Lev]

So one or two more here I have them under the title of Big Questions. Watching this episode again. This is from Yasminez Ekrish. Watching this episode again got me thinking. What if the real love story isn't rushing to find someone for the big moments, but trusting that the right person will find you when you're ready, even if that means standing alone at someone else's wedding?

[Josh Radnor]

That's a nice thought. You know that really, that reminds me of the kind of classic Stella thing of like, she's getting here as fast as she can.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, like to remember that, like the person that you're going to be with is going on their own kind of crazy, twisty journey and it's going to lead to you. Both roads are going to lead to the same destination. But that is an act of faith to trust that a person is going through their own ups and downs. They're learning the right lessons they need to learn for the time they meet you.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. It feels like this episode, the star of the end of this episode is kind of the universe in a way. We've watched an entire story. The story had a beginning, middle and end. And then there's this little magic moment at the end that she happens to be there. And that sends us into the second half of what feels like a two parter, but really it's a complete start restart. Right. It's like we're not going to keep talking about Robin. We are switching, we are switching it up. We are now going to talk about Victoria. And there's a magic to that moment and it is the universe.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, we might want to do a whole episode on this. And I don't want to get too deep in the weeds on this, but I think that one of the reasons that how I met your mother resonates so deeply at such a core, almost mythic level with people, you know, there's, there's a lot of, you know, this is. But like in the, the history of, of science and theology, like when the scientific revolution happened and the enlightenment happened and God was kind of plucked out of the center of the universe and it became all about, you know, verifiable, provable material and there's this ache at the heart of the modern life, which is like. We long for transcendence. We long for. We're still wired to believe in something beyond that which we can verify or measure. Right. And I think that there. There's something about how I met your mother. Someone could write a really good paper on this, and maybe I'll do it. But there's something about it puts mystery back at the center of things. Right. It's not about. It's. It's a lot about what you cannot control, what you cannot see. There is some sort of guiding hand that. That is at play in how I met your mother. And I think it's very satisfying on a soul level to people, because we don't want to believe. I find a universe that is just material, and when we die, it's just lights out. Like, I find that to be brutalizing to. To the psyche. I find it to be very difficult to exist in a universe like that. And I don't actually exist in a universe like that. I believe in something bigger. I don't want to unpack all that right now, but I think that part of the magic of How I Met yout Mother is that there's magic in it. Like, it allows the universe to be enchanted again. And I think that's very satisfying and relieving to people.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And I like that a lot. And at the end of this episode where Ted is so frenzied and trying to force something into being, something bigger is happening at the end of this episode that's going to change his life. Future Ted says exactly that at the end. Right. This turned out. This sent me in a whole other magical direction I couldn't have known about, basically, as the ending of that episode. And it's kind of the humbling realization that there are bigger forces at work in our lives. And Ted is constantly. Right. That's the philosophical question of Ted. Right. Can you force it into being? Can you plant it into being versus how much do you have to sort of surrender yourself to something larger? There's some larger story happening, and there's almost something comforting in surrendering to that. Right. Because, Ted, you're so good in these episodes, Josh, at being the. The motor you play, the kind of the frenzy of Ted. Right. There's a bunch of episodes where you are the motor of this show. Right. You're forcing this into being. There's so many episodes where that's the drive, and then it's nice. There's like a rel. It's relieving at the end, Ted surrenders At the end of that episode, he's sitting there with Barney, and he surrenders his preconception about himself that he's the guy that checks. I'm gonna have a plus one. He surrenders, Robin, I'm trying too hard. I'm working too hard at this. It's a complete moment of surrender. And in that moment, he's given a gift.

[Josh Radnor]

Right, Right. And I think part of the complicated math that you and Carter and the writers were doing was like, when is it time for Ted to have a win versus when is it time for him to just slip on the ice or the banana peel? You know? And it was all. He always got a win. Right when I felt like he needed it. Like, I. Like, I could feel like, oh, thank God he has some. Some wins here.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, sometimes you would say that to us. You're like, I want Ted to stop getting the shit kicked out of him. And you were right. Whenever you would say that, it was like, he's right. You're. You're the one inhabiting and embodying that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

You're feeling it. You are that guy. You know, you're really living with Ted. You're living in Ted's skin. And, like. Yeah. You would often protect Ted in that way.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, you become a little bit of the. The guardian or the gatekeeper of him. And I'm like, I know what you guys are doing here. Well, somet. It was like, I wanted less comedy at Ted's expense and more. We'll get into this. And I remember feeling it very strongly after drumroll, which is the episode right after, which is zip, zip, zip. Is that right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I remember.

[Josh Radnor]

His romanticism is lionized and heralded in drumroll, please. And then absolutely, completely mocked in the next episode. I remember getting whiplash going between the two. I was like, look.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you feel that. That this is a virtue of his, or do you want to mock this? Like, I was really confused about it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. In such close proximity, too, because the drum roll, please, is such a freaking hero moment for Ted. And. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Well, we'll get there. We'll. We'll unpack that when we get there.

[Alec Lev]

All right, well, thank you, everyone, once again, for sending in the questions in on Instagram. If you're on following us on Instagram, by the way, you should follow us Instagram.

[Josh Radnor]

What are you doing? What are you doing if you're not.

[Craig Thomas]

Following us on Instagram?

[Alec Lev]

Come on. I learned Instagram just to. Just to be able to do this.

[Craig Thomas]

I learned the Instagram. It really is old man theater. A lot of us.

[Alec Lev]

I learned an Instagram Howie made your mother Instagram so do that. Follow us Send in the questions and thank you all so much.

[Craig Thomas]

Thanks everybody.

[Josh Radnor]

I am guilty. Please equip me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our digital content producer AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to a our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Want some merch? Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Order Craig Thomas debut [e-mail] novel and you could subscribe to My Dead Father's Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will in fact dance.

[Josh Radnor]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City.