General Questions | S1E18 "Nothing Good Happens After 2 AM"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother Podcast Summary

Episode: General Questions | S1E18 "Nothing Good Happens After 2 AM"
Release Date: August 7, 2025
Hosts: Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas

---

Introduction to General Questions

In Episode 18 of How We Made Your Mother, hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve into listener-submitted questions that explore profound themes from the beloved sitcom How I Met Your Mother (HIMYM). This episode, titled "Nothing Good Happens After 2 AM," focuses on the moral complexities and character development within the show, particularly examining Ted Mosby's (played by Radnor) decisions during late-night hours.

---

Listener Feedback and Discussions

Deborah Rose’s Letter: Ted’s Integrity Tested

At [01:35], Alec Lev introduces a poignant letter from Deborah Rose via Facebook, expressing appreciation for Ted's integrity in choosing his relationship over a fleeting night with a rock star. Deborah writes:

"Glad Ted the liar got what he deserved at the end of this episode." [01:35]

Radnor reveals, with a touch of humor, that the message resonates personally as it echoes sentiments from his own father. This sparks a discussion on the challenges of maintaining honesty and faithfulness, reflecting Alec's own experiences where he chose integrity over temptation, even amidst personal repercussions.

Alec Lev: "I saw a lot of parallels to my own experience in this episode." [02:00]

Craig Thomas adds depth by acknowledging the exhaustion and complexity of such moral decisions, emphasizing the episode's dramatic weight.

Craig Thomas: "This is a drama episode. This one has a lot of narrative twists and turns." [01:35]

Analyzing Robin’s Motivations and Moral Position

A listener named Kurt K. Tank questions Robin Scherbatsky's (a central character) motivations and moral standing during her interactions with Ted. He argues that Robin bears significant blame and questions her right to anger Ted.

Alec Lev: "Every rewatch makes me think more and more that Robin is to blame and has no right to get mad." [04:19]

Craig Thomas responds by highlighting the show's nuanced writing, where characters aren't painted in black and white. He explains that Robin, much like Ted, operates in morally gray areas, making decisions based on limited information and personal loneliness.

Craig Thomas: "Robin was not all the way right here either. And that left the door open for what comes at the end of season one." [05:05]

Josh Radnor further explores the human tendency to test boundaries and seek affection, likening Robin and Ted's actions to getting close to a dangerous edge.

Josh Radnor: "It's inching up to the cliff. We're trying to maintain plausible deniability." [06:19]

The Impact of HIMYM’s Narrative Structure

Brian Del Pozo from Facebook inquires about how HIMYM's unique narrative—featuring Future Ted as the narrator—affects the portrayal of Ted's questionable behaviors. He wonders if this framing softens the perception of Ted's actions from the present-day perspective of 2005.

Alec Lev: "Do you feel the show's unique framing device softens the blow of Ted's douchey behavior?" [15:52]

Craig Thomas agrees, stating that the narrator is essential for contextualizing Ted's actions, allowing the audience to understand and judge them with the wisdom of hindsight.

Craig Thomas: "Nothing good happens after 2 AM is a retrospective thought. It works because of the narrator." [16:31]

Josh Radnor adds that Future Ted’s reflections provide a layer of accountability, as Ted acknowledges his mistakes to his children.

Josh Radnor: "He keeps telling his kids, this is the worst thing I ever did." [13:38]

Production Insights: The Cost of Set Designs

Jessica Wallace from Instagram inquires about the financial aspects of creating high-end wedding sets in HIMYM, specifically questioning if Buttercup Bakery is a real establishment in New York City.

Alec Lev: "Do you know if Buttercup is a real bake shop in New York?" [22:57]

Craig Thomas clarifies that while Buttercup is fictional, similar real-life establishments like Magnolia Bakery served as inspirations. He discusses the challenges of budgeting for elaborate sets, citing an example where a potential joke involving Ashley Williams was deemed too costly.

Craig Thomas: "We would have had to book Ashley Williams for an episode... that would have been five figures for one joke." [19:16]

Josh Radnor humorously notes the significant costs involved in such production decisions.

Josh Radnor: "He (Ted) is the IDI Amin of Characters." [17:52]

---

Josh Radnor’s Tour Experiences

Amidst the analytical discussions, Josh Radnor shares personal anecdotes from his recent tour, highlighting memorable moments where fans proposed to their partners during his performances.

At [09:03], Radnor recounts a touching proposal in Philadelphia orchestrated by a fan named Chris, who requested a specific song to set the perfect moment.

Josh Radnor: "I sang the song 'Apocalyptic Love Song,' and then Chris got down on the knee to propose to Amanda." [10:03]

He contrasts this with an unplanned and chaotic proposal in San Diego, emphasizing how premeditated proposals can lead to more heartwarming outcomes.

Josh Radnor: "Chris had a little more forethought than the guy in San Diego... It was amazing." [10:14]

Craig Thomas reflects on the emotional highs of such experiences, noting how these moments reinforce the connection between the show’s themes and real-life relationships.

Craig Thomas: "That is an amazing thing to be part of." [09:18]

---

Evaluating Ted’s Character Arc and Future Prospects

A listener named James Schmosby poses a question about the hosts' feelings as Season One approached its end, particularly regarding the continuation of Ted’s character development.

Alec Lev: "Were you excited approaching the end of this first season or nervous about the future of the show?" [21:33]

Craig Thomas responds confidently, indicating that by Episode 18, the continuation into Season Two was confirmed, alleviating some of the initial anxieties.

Craig Thomas: "We knew we had a season two... Did that make us not scared? Not really." [21:43]

Radnor discusses the fleeting nature of joy in the entertainment industry, mentioning how moments of euphoria are often short-lived.

Josh Radnor: "Some of these euphoric bursts of joy in showbiz are so short-lived." [22:44]

---

Conclusion: Enduring Relevance of HIMYM Themes

Throughout Episode 18, Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas masterfully intertwine listener feedback with in-depth analysis of HIMYM's storytelling techniques and character dynamics. By addressing moral dilemmas, production challenges, and personal experiences, the hosts illuminate why HIMYM remains a cherished and culturally significant sitcom. The episode underscores the show's ability to blend humor with heartfelt moments, offering both entertainment and meaningful reflections on life, love, and friendship.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "Glad Ted the liar got what he deserved at the end of this episode." — Deborah Rose [01:35]
• "Nothing's unequivocal, I think in life." — Craig Thomas [14:55]
• "This is one that actually I'm going to say it to you guys." — Alec Lev [18:05]
• "He (Ted) keeps telling his kids, this is the worst thing I ever did." — Josh Radnor [13:38]

---

This episode of How We Made Your Mother not only dissects pivotal moments from HIMYM but also bridges them with real-life experiences and philosophical inquiries, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the show's lasting impact.

Transcript

[Josh Radner]

Foreign. Hello. Welcome to another bonus episode of How We Made youe Mother a gq as we're calling it around the shop.

[Craig Thomas]

I think people on the streets, people are really calling it that now. It's really popular. They're calling the GQs.

[Josh Radner]

They're calling it GQ. Maybe they just don't want to salute. Maybe you want to avoid the salute. You call it a gq.

[Craig Thomas]

You can develop salute elbow which is. You gotta, you know.

[Josh Radner]

But we all have it all suffering.

[Alec Lev]

From it and slid elbow. Sort of a general pain all around the general pain.

[Josh Radner]

But let's do it with our non dominant elbow. Welcome. We. This is a general questions.

[Craig Thomas]

General questions, general questions.

[Josh Radner]

On episode 18, nothing good happens after 2am we had a great talk about that a couple days ago. I hope you tune into that if you haven't listened to it already. Maybe go listen to that and then pop back over here. Or you know what, you're. You're the master of your own life. You know, you're living your own life. You're living your own life. You got to do listen in whatever your order you want, but it's a private choice.

[Alec Lev]

You do.

[Craig Thomas]

You just do it. No, you're trying to trick us. I don't think they get private. You don't salute private.

[Josh Radner]

Oh, we don't salute private.

[Craig Thomas]

It depends what rank we are.

[Alec Lev]

We're nothing. We're nothing.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, so then we do salute private. Okay, here we go.

[Josh Radner]

Well, okay. So Alec, how were the questions this week for nothing good happens after great.

[Alec Lev]

Stuff and you know, kind of big stuff. Heavy stuff. Is this episode as it did for you guys, prompt some big heavy things and some smaller things. I'm just gonna read you a quick.

[Craig Thomas]

This is a drama. This is a drama episode. This one.

[Alec Lev]

This is just someone that has their own. I'm sure you guys have been approached with many of your very own. Nothing good happens after 2am kind of stories over the decades. This is a lovely one. Deborah Rose from Facebook says glad Ted the liar got what he deserved at the end of this episode. Okay, is that my dad?

[Josh Radner]

That's from my dad.

[Craig Thomas]

Ted the liar. Here we go. The gloves are off immediately.

[Alec Lev]

Not Tejender. Being honest and faithful is a difficult choice. And when I've had had to make in the past, I saw a lot of parallels to my own experience in this episode. In the end, I made the decision to be truer to my partner instead of sleeping with a rock star. Little did I know that my partner who was in Australia broke up with me In a letter that had been mailed but not arrived in the US at the time of my relationship test. So technically, I was already broken up with, but I didn't know it.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Alec Lev]

I still kind of regret not hopping on that bass player, but I'm glad I practiced my integrity and good sense. And it was only around 1:30am Anyway.

[Craig Thomas]

That is every part of that letter was exhausting. I needed a nap halfway through that letter. That was. I mean, it was a great letter.

[Josh Radner]

A lot of narrative twists and turns. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Very juicy.

[Josh Radner]

Well, it's funny that she is so angry at Ted, but she herself is like, I wish I had known so I could have done it.

[Craig Thomas]

I should have banged that bass player.

[Josh Radner]

I should have banged that bass player.

[Craig Thomas]

Now my mind is racing. What bass player? We're just. Now I'm totally up for real.

[Josh Radner]

Like, who was it? It was Flea.

[Alec Lev]

But that's give.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Josh Radner]

Just a flavor of the kind of letters.

[Alec Lev]

We're sure that's just a flavor. And I was also saying that for the. For the face, y' all should join the how we made your mother Facebook group.

[Craig Thomas]

Is that what that letter was?

[Alec Lev]

The Facebook group? I asked for questions just, like, two hours ago.

[Craig Thomas]

Talk about putting some skin in the game. That. That is a great. Yeah, that letter was written with all in. Thank you for that. That's amazing.

[Josh Radner]

Well, it's also a nice example of how a show like How I Met yout Mother is hitting on things that were. That continue to be so perennially relevant and real. You know, these questions of, like, are you in the right relationship?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

Can you make long distance work? What if you know, the person you've loved forever kind of comes back and wants to start something, but you're in something else? Like, these are all, like, evergreen, evergreen things.

[Craig Thomas]

We've all almost had sex with Flea at some point.

[Josh Radner]

But, like, the best stories turn the narrative back on your. The spotlight back on you, and go, when have I been in this situation? How did I behave? Did I make the right move?

[Craig Thomas]

You know, if it gets your mind racing, then we did something right. So thank you for sharing your racing mind about this one.

[Alec Lev]

Now, Craig, I heard you on Monday's show glance gloss over Robin's choice at the beginning of this or end of the previous episode. And Kurt. Kurt K. Tank wants to follow up on that. Every rewatch makes me think more and more that Robin is to blame and has no right to get mad.

[Josh Radner]

Thank you.

[Alec Lev]

Ultimately, she knew exactly what she was doing when she called Ted. Is this the underlying intention of how it's written, or did you purposely leave it up to interpretation? What about Robin?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's true. It's like, I feel like any look and all your favorite movies and plays and books, like, it's way more interesting if no one's all the way right and no one's all the way wrong. Right. It's like, I think that's what makes it juicy. It's like, boy, she does sort of walk off on the moral high ground at the end of the episode compared to what Ted has done. But when you remove it, when compared to what Ted has done, she did call him at 2am feeling very lonely and lonely knowing at that time they had a girlfriend. And he showed up. She doesn't know he's, quote unquote, broken up with Victoria or got dumped by Victoria, which is not true. She doesn't know that until he's been there for a little bit. And that's what makes it so interesting. She's. And. Right. I mean, like, the end of this season is. The new challenge is do these two characters. How do these two characters get together after this? Or do they. And I think it is interesting to note that Robin was not all the way right here either. And that left the door open for what comes at the end of season one.

[Josh Radner]

I also think there's a little. There's like a human thing where you're like, how close can I get to the rail? Like, how close can I get my finger to the stove without getting burned? Can I just get close enough to feel the heat of it? Right. Like, I think that that's what the hug is. It's like, no, we're just hugging. We're friends who are hugging. Oh, this hug's going on a long time.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, like inching up to the cliff.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's inching up and just peering over it to feel the. The. Oh, that sinking feeling in your stomach that you're about to fall. So I think we test limits in that way. We're trying to maintain plausible deniability while at the same time trying to not be alone or trying to win some affections. Because sometimes I know a guy who. He told me, he said, I. I wanted this woman to come over kind of late at night. And this is not. I. This is not me. By the way, it sounds like I knew a guy. No, it's really. This is not me. This is a guy I know. He said, I wanted this woman to come over late at night when she told me, I just ordered an Uber. I'm coming over. He immediately wanted her to not come over, because all he wanted was for her to say, I'm getting an Uber and I'm coming over. Like, he didn't actually need to see her. He needed to know she would come.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Josh Radner]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, totally. There are varying degrees of what we need. Like, it's not all about, like, ending up in bed together. Sometimes we just want the affection or the presence of someone or for them to look at us a certain way or say certain things to us. So I think Robin, just, like, she needed to be close to him in that moment, and. Yeah, but she was also playing with fire just like he was.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they say that, like, the fear of heights is the fear of. That you're gonna lose control and throw yourself off, sort of. And it's. There's something. There's some inching up to that ledge to sort of see what's gonna happen on both sides of the equation here, which is what makes it interesting, I think.

[Josh Radner]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

Josh, you were just back recently from the end of your tour. Josh is a wonderful singer, songwriter. We have. We have had Josh on the road on and off for many weeks now on this tour. This. This Fits and Starts tour that you come back to New York and then you go back out, right?

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, I just come back to record the podcast, and then I head back out on the road.

[Craig Thomas]

You just come back for one hour for the podcast?

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, one hour back on the plane.

[Craig Thomas]

How did it go? How did the last leg of it go?

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, it was good. I did a swing through the Midwest. I started in. In my hometown of Columbus, Ohio, Popped down to Cincinnati, went to a great venue in Evanston, Illinois, in Chicago called Space. That was just delightful, such a fun show. And then I ended in Ann Arbor, and then I did Philly last weekend. Oh, I told. I told you this. We had an engagement at some. A great, lovely guy named Chris reached out and said, I want to propose to my wife.

[Craig Thomas]

For a second, I thought it was you. I thought he proposed to you like you're married, Josh.

[Josh Radner]

No, no. Chris wanted to propose to me, and I just went with it. I was so swept up in it.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, how can you not?

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, no, Chris wanted to propose to Amanda at my show in Philadelphia, so he reach out to me.

[Craig Thomas]

That's amazing, Josh. That's an amazing thing to be part.

[Josh Radner]

Of, right it's amazing. Yeah. It was my second proposal of the tour. Someone proposed in San Diego.

[Craig Thomas]

Unbelievable. Wait, so how do they do it? Do they tell you beforehand? They. So they write you ahead of time. They say, can I come up and do this? Or how does it work?

[Josh Radner]

Chris had a little more forethought than the guy in San Diego. The guy in San Diego saw me walking away. I. There was a little confusion about the merch. Like, the person who was supposed to sell my merch didn't show up in San Diego. So I. These two gals, these awesome women, just stepped forward, and they were so excited. So they were. I had to set them up with the merch. So the crowd had already started filtering in, and so I was kind of trying to sneak away, get back to the green room, and this guy snagged me, and he's like, josh, I want to propose to my girlfriend at your show. Can I. You know, when do I do it? And I said, I'll cue you. You know, I was just like, I'll tell you when.

[Craig Thomas]

So.

[Josh Radner]

So after I sang the song Apocalyptic Love Song, I gave him great song, right? I gave him the. And so he just got down on. On the knee and in the midst of crowd.

[Craig Thomas]

It was in the crowd.

[Josh Radner]

In the crowd, yeah. In Philly. Chris wanted to come up on stage. Like, he wanted to bring Amanda on stage. I kind of didn't know how to do it, except he requested this song of mine called Sober Love, which is like a deep cut Radner song. I've never recorded it, but it's on YouTube. Wow. And he wanted me to play the song, so I dusted off this song. I hadn't played it in a long time, but I had the lyrics. And I didn't have a music stand. I just had, like, a stool. And I'm, you know, I'm 50, so I need the lyrics a little closer. Yes. So I said, chris. Hey, Chris, is Chris out there? And I said, will you come up? Just hold these lyrics so I can read. So he was already on stage, and I. I sang the song, and then I said, where's Amanda? I said, do you want. I don't remember how it happened. I have a video of it. I'll post it on Instagram. Amanda came up and. And he got down on the knee and he proposed, and she cried and said, yes. And then I have a thing called welcome to youo Show. This. This opening song that I sing. And one of the lyrics is, you never know what'll happen at a Josh Radner. Show. So after they, you know, after she said yes, I leaned at the mic. I said, you never know what'll happen at a Josh Radner show. And it's true.

[Craig Thomas]

That's amazing. So Chris kind of planned out this amazing engagement. Let me, let me ask you, were you using your planner brand for when you were on the road? Were you?

[Josh Radner]

Well, I had to plan where I was gonna go and where I was gonna. What do you mean?

[Craig Thomas]

No, I know that part. You thought of that part. But do you think about your apartment back home?

[Josh Radner]

Well, why? No, the apartment back home.

[Craig Thomas]

What was happening with this apartment back home?

[Josh Radner]

It was just sitting here, Craig. It was just sitting here gathering dust.

[Craig Thomas]

You could have been making some extra cash by hosting your place on airbnb.com boom. You mistake. You make the same mistake over and over again. You have these wonderful adventures. People go proposing to their girlfriend on your stage. That's all well and good, but you've got to get on what's happening.

[Josh Radner]

Do you know who it is? Do you know who would never make this mistake?

[Craig Thomas]

Who?

[Josh Radner]

Chris.

[Craig Thomas]

Chris would never. Because Chris thinks ahead.

[Josh Radner]

He knows ahead.

[Craig Thomas]

He's a plans the engagement. Your home could be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.

[Alec Lev]

Brian Del Pozo from. Also from Facebook says it's relatively rare to see a sitcom have the lead protagonist act in quite such an unequivocally wrong way as Ted does. Was there pushback either from the members of the show's creative team, the cast, or the network?

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, no, I think the studio in the network, they were, they were pretty cool about realizing, like, this is. This is juicy. This is drama. We know Ted loves Robin. Ted is not just trying to hook up and have a one night stand. He does have deep, real feelings for her, which I think I don't agree with the word unequivocally. That question. I appreciate the question. I think it's a smart question, and I think it's a question. It's true. Most sitcoms don't show this. Right? This feels more like a drama, this one. In a good way, I think. But it's not unequivocally wrong. Ted is not. I think we've made the case for 17 episodes prior to this 18th episode that this is not unequivocally wrong. That's my take.

[Josh Radner]

I mean, two things. One is it's Robin, right? Like that catchphrase he invokes to let himself out of jail all the time.

[Craig Thomas]

It's Robin.

[Josh Radner]

I can throw out the plan. I can throw out my ethics.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

But the other thing that really strikes me is like he keeps telling his kids, this is the worst thing I ever did.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

Which, by the way, I think you could go through the series and maybe this isn't the worst thing he's ever done.

[Craig Thomas]

It's almost certainly not.

[Josh Radner]

It's almost certainly not. It might not. It might not be in the top five of like when you, when you get in the last analysis, like if you're ranking his worst moments, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right.

[Josh Radner]

But he does present this to his kids and thus to the audience as your old man screwed up. Like, this was not my finest hour. And I think that gives him a little cover.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I agree. And I think unequivocal. Nothing's unequivocal, I think in life. That's what I'm trying to say. I think nothing's unequivocal. Which is why this episode hits because everybody is at moments like this. And this idea that you kind of are. It's almost like a werewolf narrative too. I keep on, we said it's sort of a suspense movie. It's sort of a ghost movie. It's also a werewolf narrative. It's like that full moon. Watch out for that full moon. Do not feed those, those cute little mogwai after. Is that the right word? After midnight, they're going to become gremlins. Like there's almost something supernatural about 2am and about late night decision making. We've all done it. Everyone has done it in some category or multiple categories. Someone has had a night they look back on, they go, that was not my best decision making. That was not my best self. And it's universal. And that's why I think it's not unequivocally wrong. It's actually very human.

[Josh Radner]

And it almost feels like your twenties are the decade designated for those kinds of screw ups. Like, you know, because you have to figure it's. It's like that, that phrase, you don't know what enough is until you've had more than enough. Like you're testing boundaries. Like you're testing your own boundaries. Like, what would it be like, what's it like to drink, you know, 13 beers and try to go to work in the morning. Like it didn't work, not good. You know, like you've got to try to figure out like, who you are and what your kind of recipe is for living. And your 20s are where you really experiment in ways that are sometimes disastrous and oftentimes illuminating.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, but make it for a good story.

[Alec Lev]

Brian continues this question. It's a really, I think a really great writing structure. Question. Writing question. He says. Also, do you feel the show's unique framing device, essentially allowing future Ted to judge his actions from 30 years in the future softens the blow of 2005. Ted's douchey behavior.

[Craig Thomas]

It doesn't work without the narrator. It doesn't work. There's no episode. There's. Well, there's no. This whole show doesn't work without the narrator. But nothing good happens after 2am is a retrospective thought. You know what I mean? He's. He's. Ted's ignoring that in the moment. And it is older, wiser advice from his own mother. Courtney Kang's mother, actually the arbiter. Courtney Kang's mother used to say that to her. And he's, you know, future Ted is now more like what his mom's age was probably when she was telling him that or, you know, older. And so he's. So it only. It only worked. The whole episode only works I think, because of that. So I think it is a good observation and it would be a totally different feeling if we didn't have that Jola fever.

[Alec Lev]

Also from Facebook. Facebook was hot today. Okay. What was the inspiration behind Victoria? The idea that Ted follows the risk reward pathway in regard to a potential new feeling of love is very symbolic of how the dating scene is. You never really know who you're meeting. Which I guess is what they were trying to cut out. The idea of not having to know this episode really lays down the fundamentals of Ted being so blinded by love and having so much to work on in that department. In a way, we've all been Ted as we learn the right kind of love and grow.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a good point. I think current day Ted is imagining some wonderful future that is so wonderful it will justify dubious behavior in the present. He's using the future to pay for now. It's sort of bad finance. It's like we're going to be rich in the future so we can run up debt now.

[Josh Radner]

Well, it's almost like utopian utopianists who will justify horrific, horrifying, you know, human rights abuses because they're fighting for, you know, the better world. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

It is. It's sadly not that far off from that. They're like sort of delusional. It'll all be so great. It'll justify this.

[Josh Radner]

Ted is basically the. He's the IDI Amin of Characters.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, man, there's your, there's your quote look. There's your blurb for the show.

[Alec Lev]

This is one that actually I'm going to say it to you guys. It's probably a Steve Olson question. So you know, hi, Steve. We know Steve is listening. Who was your, what was his title? Production designer.

[Craig Thomas]

Production designer Steve. Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

So I love Emmy winning. Emmy winning. You get so many perspectives on who is watching the show and who is getting what from it. Here's one that I just enjoyed from Jessica wallacexox who I believe has commented on many things on Instagram but takes this one personally. This is back on. Drumroll, please. A lot of people wrote about a lot of the Victoria episodes here. I'm a wedding planner and I've got to know what's the budget for the sets for episodes with weddings. I see the floral arrangements and such and I know how expensive these things are. And I wonder how it works for a fake wedding for a show. We see that weddings, they look very high end for their time. Do you know what the episode cost?

[Craig Thomas]

Wait, not this episode. We're back to Drumroll, please.

[Alec Lev]

Now on this one, a lot of these questions covered several of Victoria also. And I think someone else pointed out who invites their wedding baker to the wedding to sit as a guest.

[Josh Radner]

Well, we know in the episode, the episode cost, the wedding cost $400,000, which is outrageously expensive, especially 20 years ago.

[Craig Thomas]

It was a crazy. I was very surprised by that price especially. And I would say that what we shot did not look like it cost that much, whatever it costs. But it just looked like a wedding.

[Josh Radner]

It looked like a conference room at any old.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, it looked like a hotel. I mean, it looked good. It worked. But it didn't necessarily look like the most lavish wedding. But yeah, we had, we had to weigh those ideas, all them, you know, when I thought of this, within this Victoria run is the joke in Life among the Gorillas, I guess, where Ted falls asleep on the phone with Victoria. Right. And I remember thinking as I was watching it, I was like, oh, it would have been funny. As I was watching it, you know, the other day, it would have been funny to cut to Ashley on the other end of that call, hearing Ted snoring. Right. In Germany. And I thought, oh, we should have done that. And I thought that would have cost $30,000, that joke. Right. We would have had to book Ashley Williams for an episode and pay her her fee. We would have to create, I don't know, her apartment in Germany that she's in or the culinary institute she's going in. That would have been a five, you know, five figure joke. That would have been tens of thousands of dollars for one joke. And that's why we didn't do it. And we were not a big hit. This was season one. Later in season five, season six, the show hit syndication. And we were like, hey, we want to do this one cutaway that costs $25,000. Maybe. Maybe when you're a hit now, when.

[Josh Radner]

You'Re in season one. Well, there's also so much about television, like your character could be contracted for 7 out of 13. Not for all of them.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radner]

And you go, it's almost like, I think maybe he ended up in all of them later. But I don't know if, like, Buster was in all of the first 13 of Arrested Development because that deal was like a 7 out of 13 or 10 out of 13. And people go, well, why wasn't him, Buster, in there? It doesn't make sense. There was a deal in place. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

It's financial reality. And it's true, we didn't have Ashley booked for that episode, but wanted to keep Victoria alive. Just to get to where we've gotten to in this episode and to get the feeling of long distance, having her not be seen is actually was a good feeling to have.

[Josh Radner]

It helps the narrative that she becomes a little bit of a. Like a fading kind of vision.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. He even says. Ted says, I don't remember. Right. In that episode, I don't quite remember her face, which actually felt like a very real thing.

[Alec Lev]

Finally, James Schmosby, who sends in a lot of great questions on Instagram.

[Josh Radner]

I can't believe that's his last name.

[Alec Lev]

Incredible.

[Craig Thomas]

What are the odds?

[Josh Radner]

What are the odds?

[Alec Lev]

James says as we're closing to the end of season one, back when filming and production took place, were you excited approaching the end of this first season or nervous about the future of the show? Where were you in your head, if you could remember at this time?

[Craig Thomas]

We knew we had a season two, I think, didn't we, Josh? Or maybe we found out. Maybe we found out a little later in season two. Maybe I'm. We knew before the end of shooting that we had a season two.

[Josh Radner]

It might have been around this time where we got to season two pickup. I remember you guys would kind of come down a set and it looked, like, ominous, but you guys didn't seem upset. And then you, Pam and Carter would kind of like stand and gather the crew around for just a quick burst. Right. And you say, just want to let you know that we are coming back for next season.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, and everyone would hug the best feeling in the world. Did that happen by episode 18 or was it right past? I don't remember. But somewhere around here we found that out. But did that make us not scared and feel like we were fighting for our lives at all times? No, that lasted for years and maybe that's a good thing. I don't know.

[Josh Radner]

Well, some of these euphoric bursts of joy in showbiz are so short lived. Like maybe it'll last till the end of the day and then you're just back to your set point. You're back. Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

And finally, is Buttercup a real bake shop in New York? No, that's all we have time for today.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, look, I thought we were thinking of Magnolia Bakery. If we're thinking of anything, we'd probably think about Magnolia Bakery.

[Josh Radner]

A little nod to Princess Bride.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, well, yeah, I think so. We're huge pr. There's many Princess Bride references and hymns throughout. So I think probably we were. We were nodding to that because that is. God, that's a good movie. God, those are good cupcakes. Magnolia. I'm going to go order some and watch that movie right now. Thanks everybody.

[Josh Radner]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Once want some merch? Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Order Craig Thomas debut [e-mail] novel and you can subscribe to My Dead Fathers Society. Also on Substack to learn about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will, in fact, dance.

[Josh Radner]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?