General Questions | S1E5 "Okay Awesome"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother: Episode S1E5 "Okay Awesome" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: April 24, 2025

In the fifth episode of the first season of "How We Made Your Mother," hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve into the intricacies of the "Okay Awesome" episode from "How I Met Your Mother" (HIMYM). This episode serves as a bonus installment titled "General Questions," where the duo addresses fan inquiries, explores behind-the-scenes elements, and reflects on broader themes depicted in HIMYM.

---

1. Introduction to "Okay Awesome" and Listener Engagement

The episode opens with Craig Thomas greeting listeners, followed by Josh Radnor expressing excitement about addressing listener questions related to HIMYM's "Okay Awesome" episode. The hosts emphasize the wealth of questions received via Instagram, setting the stage for an interactive discussion.

Notable Quote:

Josh Radnor (00:54): "Hello, and welcome to another bonus episode of How We Made Your Mother. We are calling these bonus episodes general questions."

---

2. Choreography and Acting: Marshall's Dance Sequence

One of the primary listener questions revolves around whether Marshall's iconic dance was scripted or improvised. Alec Lev, the producer, shares that questions poured in on Instagram, highlighting fans' fascination with the dance's authenticity.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas (02:46): "It was choreographed to a T... Pam Freeman, our director, shot the hell out of that thing. It was very down to the tiniest movement choreography."

Josh Radnor (03:29): "The look on his face when he's dancing. He was having a blast."

The hosts clarify that despite Jason Segel (Marshall) initially feeling apprehensive about dancing, the sequence was meticulously planned and choreographed, dispelling notions of spontaneous improvisation.

---

3. Scripted Precision vs. Actor Improvisation

Listeners were curious about the balance between scripted content and actor improvisation on HIMYM. Josh Radnor elaborates on the tightly scripted nature of the show, contrasting it with more freeform styles like those seen in Judd Apatow or John Cassavetes' films.

Notable Quote:

Josh Radnor (04:02): "How I Met Your Mother was a really scripted show... it was very tightly scripted."

He emphasizes that while actors had moments to inject personal flair, the overarching narrative remained under the writers' control, ensuring consistency and coherence throughout the series.

---

4. The Role of Props: Blue French Horn and Beyond

A significant portion of the discussion centers on beloved props from HIMYM, such as the Blue French Horn. The hosts recount how certain props became iconic and how they decided who would take them post-production.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas (11:03): "We were a callbacky show... Josh was like, I want the blue French horn."

Josh Radnor (11:30): "I didn't take the red boots either... I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you."

Craig reveals he kept one of the two red "hero boots" as a cherished memento, while Josh maintains ownership of the Blue French Horn, underscoring the personal connections the creators developed with these symbols.

---

5. Themes of Memory and Storytelling

The episode delves deep into HIMYM's unique narrative structure, which relies on an unreliable narrator—Future Ted. This storytelling technique allows for embellishments and alterations in the recounting of past events, mirroring real-life memory distortions.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas (14:17): "We started playing with the unreliable narrator so early on."

Josh Radnor (16:15): "How the information has been distorted or degraded by the time it got."

The hosts discuss how events, like Marshall and Lily's dramatic nightclub escape, are heightened for narrative flair, reflecting how people often exaggerate memories over time.

---

6. Adulthood and Maintaining Youthful Spirit

A recurring theme in "Okay Awesome" is the tension between growing up and retaining one's playful, youthful spirit. Craig Thomas shares personal anecdotes about his daughter Celia's fears of adulthood, paralleling the show's exploration of balancing maturity with fun.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor (21:08): "...we still make the same jokes we were making 20 years ago... we still make the same jokes... same ballpark of silliness."

Craig Thomas (23:02): "...she was like, 'you are an example of a ridiculous adult for whom I have no respect. Great. I can grow up and be a clown, too.'"

The hosts reflect on their fears of adulthood becoming dull and how the show HIMYM portrays that growing up doesn't necessarily mean abandoning silliness or joy.

---

7. Listener Feedback and Personal Stories

The episode features heartfelt listener comments appreciating how "Okay Awesome" redefined perspectives on adulthood and the balance between responsibility and playfulness. The hosts resonate with these sentiments, sharing their journeys of maintaining a youthful spirit amidst life's demands.

Notable Quote:

Listener Comment (18:00): "This episode completely changed my perspective about adulthood... growing up doesn't have to be scary and boring and hard."

---

8. Audio Question from Maya Rupert

In a rare segment, Maya Rupert, a friend of the show and an aspiring author, poses a question about the "Okay Awesome" list—a humorous take on things people supposedly dislike but find "awesome." Craig and Josh reveal their own items on the list, adding a personal touch and further engaging with their audience.

Notable Quotes:

Maya Rupert (30:00): "What are on your okay, awesome lists?"

Craig Thomas (31:24): "I think the Super Bowl can be anticlimactic."

Josh Radnor (31:29): "I have a thing about certain, like, very fancy foods I actually find disgusting... foie gras is one of the worst tastes I've ever had."

This segment not only answers Maya's query but also showcases the hosts' camaraderie and willingness to share personal quirks with their listeners.

---

9. Reflections on Aging and Identity

Josh and Craig engage in a profound discussion about aging, identity, and how their roles have evolved over time. They touch upon societal perceptions of adulthood and the internal struggles of maintaining one's essence amidst life's changes.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor (25:29): "I don't think I want to wear a suit in my life... I don't want to put on that uniform."

Craig Thomas (26:56): "Aging is one of the most trippy, insane things we do."

Josh Radnor (28:23): "It's like one day you're the fresh-eyed kind of apprentice... and now he's the one taking through the youngsters through their job."

These reflections provide listeners with insightful perspectives on personal growth, the passage of time, and the importance of staying true to oneself.

---

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reiterate the importance of balancing maturity with playfulness, drawing parallels between their own lives and the themes explored in HIMYM. They encourage listeners to embrace adulthood without sacrificing their youthful spirit.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas (21:47): "What Future Ted is essentially trying to do with his children writ large across the entire series in some ways."

Josh Radnor (35:03): "...she loves it."

The episode concludes with a light-hearted exchange, maintaining the engaging and personable tone that characterizes "How We Made Your Mother."

---

Key Takeaways

• "Okay Awesome" serves as a pivotal episode exploring the balance between adulthood and maintaining a playful spirit.
• The hosts provide in-depth insights into the show's production, choreography, and narrative techniques.
• Personal anecdotes from Josh and Craig enrich the discussion, offering listeners relatable perspectives on growth and memory.
• Listener engagement remains a cornerstone, with thoughtful questions and feedback shaping the conversation.
• Themes of memory distortion, storytelling, and the evolution of identity are central to both the podcast and the original HIMYM episode.

"How We Made Your Mother" effectively bridges the gap between creators and fans, offering a comprehensive exploration of "How I Met Your Mother" while delving into universal themes of love, friendship, and personal growth.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

Nordstrom brings you the season's most wanted brands, Skims, Mango Free people, and Princess polly, all under $100. From trending Sneakers to beauty must haves, we've curated the styles you'll wear on repeat this spring. Free shipping, free returns and in store pickup make it easier than ever. Shop now in stores [e-mail].

[Craig Thomas]

Paypal lets you pay all your pals like your dinner dates.

[Josh Radner]

How are we splitting the bill?

[Alec Lev]

Um, evenly. Well, I only got soup.

[Advertiser]

Let's Split it on PayPal based on what people ate.

[Craig Thomas]

Get started in the PayPal app. A PayPal account is required to send and receive money.

[Josh Radner]

Hello, and welcome to another bonus episode of How We Made youe Mother. We are calling these bonus episodes general questions. General questions. I don't know why. Still makes me laugh. I'm here, as always, with my dear friend and how I met your mother. Co creator Craig Thomas. Hello, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hello, Josh. Happy to be here.

[Josh Radner]

It's great to be here. It's been a minute. We.

[Craig Thomas]

We took a little break in a few weeks.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And we have our lovely producer, Alec Lev. And I've never called you lovely and I'm never doing again. So. Just lovely. Our lovely producer. Nailed it.

[Josh Radner]

We are, we are answering all your questions from episode five of How I Met your Mother, which is called. Okay, awesome, written by Chris Harris. We did a deep dive recently into the episode. This is the one where the gang goes to the nightclub and no one can hear anyone. So half the episode subtitled in a genius move. And Marshall and Lily are escaping from their wine and cheese boring adult party to join them. So, Alec, tell us what happened. What was the viewer listener mail like?

[Alec Lev]

We got lots of questions as we have every time through Instagram. Let's. I'm going to ask this one, but then I'm going to broaden out a little bit. Sam Ashwood says was Marshall's dance outlined in the script or mostly ad lib during filming? Love the show. Thank you for the endless hours of entertainment. Now on my. Well, a big number. How many times he's rewatched, I think I've lost count. Years ago, he says my memory is not as good as Ted's. We talked a little in the main episode about the choreography of that, but a lot of people want to know about. Was that made up? Did they make that up? Did they improvise that?

[Craig Thomas]

It was choreographed to a T. I remember Jason being like, I don't dance. I don't know how to do this. And I think her name. God, I Hope I got. Her name is Kayla, I think who is the choreographer of the episode is the woman that Barney was dancing with and never saw her face and turns out to be his cousin. Spoilers. And so, yeah, so she was. She did a great job, I'm sure. In the script. We wrote a few things, like, I'm assuming we wrote Marshall does some robot. We probably like name dropped a few weird little like 90s 90s era dance moves. But no, she. All credit to her and to Jason. They worked really hard on that. Pam Freeman, our director, shot the hell out of that thing. And yeah, no, it was very down. Down to the tiniest movement choreography.

[Josh Radner]

And Jason might have been scared, but you can. The look on his face when he's dancing. He was having a blast.

[Craig Thomas]

He got into it. He definitely got into it.

[Josh Radner]

But he was also on an unnamed substance, we think.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, he was.

[Alec Lev]

So. So, Josh, broadening that out, how much they're. They're using, you know, ad lib and improv a little, you know, generically here, but, I mean, because people keep on wanting you guys to have made things up on the spot. Can you talk a little bit about this? A bigger question of what are you doing as an actor? You have words on the page. What's yours, what's theirs?

[Josh Radner]

It's worth considering this. The implication is Jason just started dancing and we caught that. You can't do that. There's four cameras going. There's extras who are being corralled and Directed by the 2nd AD there's so many moving parts and pieces. Plus, it's a 22.22-and-2 minute story that has 40 to 60 scenes in it that are, you know, kind of choreographed and written just to be part of this functioning machine. I don't want to, you know, overuse that word, but it was like, really tightly scripted. What you could do is kind of, you know, at the end of a scene, there might be a little bit. There might be. There might have been a moment in rehearsal where you say, hey, would it be funny if, you know, Ted did this and you could. You would negotiate it with. But there wasn't a ton of like, you know, I think the idea is like a Judd Apatow movie or a Cassavetes movie where they just kind of roll the camera and the actors just do lots of things. And maybe I'm robbing us of our own mystique or something, but How I met your Mother was a really scripted show. That's why when people want to get mad, like around something, Ted Did. I was like, dude, I was contractually obligated to do those things. Like, this is. This is my job. This is my job to be truthful and bring this stuff to life. And it wasn't my job to hijack the script and say, you know what I think should really happen because I write my own things. But Jason and I actually had this talk a bunch of times. We love writing scripts. We didn't think we'd be particularly good. How I Met your mother writers. It came from the minds of Craig and Carter and the writing staff. It was a very singular world that had its own rules and its own logic, and we were just inside that. But we weren't the puppet masters.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm curious, Josh, Does. Does the fact that you are a writer and Jason, too, like, does that make it easier to show up and not need to write or change what's written in How I Met yout Mother? Because I remember Jason would always say to me, we'd come up, we'd pitch him some idea. We'd say, hey, we're doing a big dance sequence. And, okay, awesome. Are you okay? And he would always say, I'm your meat puppet. Go ahead. He just say, I'm your meat puppet. And he. He kind of meant it. He's kind of like, tell me what to do. We're doing it. And he would just.

[Josh Radner]

I don't think. I don't. I don't share that with Jason. Like, I know he felt more like, put me where you want me, you know, like, put me in coach. Like, I think he felt I was. I was very curious about what you guys were up to. Like I said, I always look forward to the script. I always. I was. I was both a fan and I was. I think it's hard for me to watch things and not try to look under the hood and see a little bit like, oh, this is really smart, how they're developing this character, or this character's coming back. And isn't that a funny callback? I'm interested in the mechanics, but I also. And I think I said this before, I'm pretty clear about what I'm on set to do. I was not there as a writer. I was there to be the actor, and I had my actor hat on. But I think another kind of subtle, subterranean part of me was, like, learning and observing and.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. And you knew you were writing your own things anyway. You got to be a writer in other. Exactly.

[Josh Radner]

And I got to be the master of that universe. And I didn't have to be in this one.

[Craig Thomas]

And Jason, too.

[Alec Lev]

And Craig also, you're now, at this point, you're all writing for Josh. So not to say that you're going, well, we'll kind of give him a thing and then he'll run with it. But you do know who you're writing for, which is different than writing a script. And you don't know who you're going to cast it. You kind of. You have to control that in a very different way. This. You're like, if I give Josh this word, these lines in this moment, I know Josh Radner, and I want it to be a Josh Radner expression of what we are doing. Right. You're already up to that at this point in episode five, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. And that is the gift of long form tv. You really get to know who you're writing for, but you also want to find ways to surprise yourself and surprise them and try new things. So you want to also watch that and not assume, you know exactly how they're supposed to say it or supposed to do it. And Jason was especially good at always surprising you with how he said and did things. Yeah, but what a gift to be able to write for people.

[Josh Radner]

You probably knew. I felt some weeks you were seeing, like, oh, I wonder if Josh or Jason or Koby can do this. Like, you throw it out there.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, this dance sequence, for example, is a perfect example.

[Josh Radner]

But then there are other things that acquire a kind of power to them because, you know, like when you wrote write. Right. Like, you knew that I. And, you know, I remember in an early episode, I grabbed my heart. Right. And it became a very Mosby thing. I think you guys actually started writing that in.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah, we did. And I think we refer to that one as the Mosby. I guess lots of things could have been that. But he does the Ted heart grab. Yeah. I mean, it's such a gift. It's like an intimate connection, and you don't get it. Right. When you're shooting a movie or, like, you're doing other things, you really get to know who you're writing for. And that is great. And yet you also have to surprise them and yourself.

[Alec Lev]

Josh, you answered many people's questions, by the way, who have asked throughout the episodes about the grabbing of the heart. And is that you? And is that written and what that is?

[Josh Radner]

So my memory of it is. I did first. I did. Yeah, that was me. And then you guys liked it, and then it just became a thing.

[Craig Thomas]

You may have done it in an.

[Josh Radner]

Audition For I might have.

[Craig Thomas]

I think we just took it. Yeah. I mean, that's physical. Things you guys would do were your own inventions. And it's such an important part of who a character is, the physicality of that character. Whether or not you're coming up with new lines all the time or not, you're inhabiting it in your body in ways that no writer could imagine. And so in that sense, you are constantly inventing material. Right.

[Alec Lev]

By the way, Josh, you said you're worried about robbing us of your own mystique. I would say that's the subtitle of this podcast.

[Josh Radner]

That is.

[Craig Thomas]

That's what we're doing.

[Josh Radner]

Peek behind the curtain, folks. Here you go.

[Craig Thomas]

Vivisecting the mystique in real time.

[Alec Lev]

This represents many questions about props. I think everyone is very inspired, Josh, by knowing the home of the bluefront horn there over your right shoulder. So this was. Be honest. Banana shoe asks be honest, who kept Barney's Mylar silver club shirt, AKA does Craig have a secret night shirt with all these hero props or these special props? I mean, did most of them sit around for eight or nine years and then it was a free for all? Was it like. I mean, we learned from Courtney Kang coming up soon that she was inspired to. It was hinted at that if she wrote something, she might be able to also walk away with the prop at the end, and she may or may.

[Craig Thomas]

Not still have that item and hold it up on camera in the episode.

[Alec Lev]

It's possible. Coming soon.

[Craig Thomas]

Thanks, Dream.

[Alec Lev]

So, Craig, talk a little bit about what happens to the stuff people want to know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, you couldn't rob it during the production because God knows, we were a callbacky show. We brought things back and back and back and back on that show. And so they had to keep stuff. They had to keep stuff. And then at the end, yeah, it was a little bit of a free for all. Josh was like, I want the blue French horn. You were just so clear. You're like, I want that one. That means the world to me.

[Josh Radner]

Well, yeah, there was no one else who would, like, claim to it, I think. Oh, my God, maybe Kobe could have. But I think it was.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that's the only other one.

[Josh Radner]

Did someone take the jukebox? Did Carter take the jukebox?

[Craig Thomas]

No, I don't think anybody took the jukebox. I have one of the two red hero boobs in my apartment.

[Josh Radner]

Oh, wow.

[Craig Thomas]

If Anyone watching on YouTube, there is the purple giraffe right there over my shoulder. Yeah, we all took stuff. Wardrobe Things like that. Wardrobe was different. Wardrobe kept stuff. Because sometimes we call back, but I don't think anyone was ever going to call back. That silver Mylar weird shirt.

[Josh Radner]

I didn't take the red boots either. If anyone, if that's your real question. No, I didn't take the red boots. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you. In New York City.

[Alec Lev]

24 chefs, 24.

[Advertiser]

Culinary showdowns for 24 hours straight. Which chef will outcook, outpace, outlast the competition?

[Craig Thomas]

No chef escapes the clock.

[Advertiser]

Season premiere 24 and 24 Last Chef.

[Josh Radner]

Standing Sunday, April 27th at 8.

[Advertiser]

See you at first on Food Network stream next day on Max. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials. Back to show.

[Alec Lev]

Hennick Kismidulus. Apologies. Okay, how do you feel about the scene where Marshall and Lily jump out the window and how it affects the rest of the legitimacy of the story? How do you feel about this ridiculous decision and how it made the show different or unique? We talked a little bit about that, but many people were concerned about this moment. And, you know, in reading through so many of these questions, it's also that they've all watched the show in a compressed way. Right. They've watched it quickly. They've read one book that is the how I met your mother book. And when page two doesn't match with page 57, they see that as all one. Whereas you, you're writing one page at a time, barely. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Alec Lev]

So I guess talk a little bit about that. But also this one notion of breaking reality the way Mr. Belvedere would not.

[Craig Thomas]

Mr. Belvedere, that was a documentary. That was technically a documentary. It's a funny question because we started playing with the unreliable narrator so early on. The jump from the third floor was one of the first times we sort of left reality completely via the narrator. And we talked about this in the episode, in the proper podcast episode about Ocasm. We were giddy. We were giddy. We had this new toy of this narrator. Who could say, I don't remember the Exact logistics. Maybe it was something like this. It's been 25 years since this story happened. And I loved that. That's how we all tell stories. Stuff that happened 25 years ago. Your mind mixes things up. You embellish. You come up with transitions that didn't exist. Timelines intersect. Things that happen two, three nights apart or the same night. I stand by it. I completely stand by it. It is 100% the flavor of the show and the way people tell stories and distant memories.

[Josh Radner]

Right. I also think that there, you don't even realize you're doing it, but you'll say, like, the night uncle Marshall ate 10 tacos becomes like 37 tacos. By the. By the. By the second decade of telling the story, like, yeah, everything gets. Like you said, embellish or inflated. Like, yeah. I remember I had an ex girlfriend who. I told her some statistic, and it was like a hundred. It was like 10,000. Right. And then we were with some friends, like, a couple weeks later, and she retold the statistics. She goes, you know, I heard. And she said it was such authority that a million. Like, she used a million. And I was like, first of all, I told you that. And it was 10,000. Like, she inflated it so outrageously. And it reminds you, like, this is just a giant game of telephone. Like, life is a huge game of telephone, where it's like you don't know where you are in the chain. Like, where.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

How the information has been distorted or degraded by the time it got.

[Craig Thomas]

And it's telephone to your past self. The more time passes, there's all these different versions of you playing telephone with it. And you. You can get that 10,000 to a million all on your own.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah. It's that weird phenomenon. Like, sometimes people tell a story so much, they start thinking it happened to them.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And it did not happen to them. It's just they've. They've somehow, like, taken on and digested the story, and they've told it so much that they've had a. A kind of visceral response to the story, and they. And they become the protagonist of it. It's strange.

[Alec Lev]

There's the great Malcolm Gladwell episode of his podcast called Free Brian Williams, which is all about what he thinks actually happened. When Brian Williams said he experienced something in a helicopter and didn't. And it's Malcolm sort of retelling of how memory does that to you.

[Craig Thomas]

I think future Ted is going. I don't. There was no other exit from that apartment. And if Marshall simply walked out of this wine and cheese, fancy party they were having. He couldn't have got away with that. So there had to have been another way. Let's just say it was this.

[Josh Radner]

There's also an element of Ted has trapped his kids in his living room for a very long afternoon of stories. And he wants to be a good storyteller.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Josh Radner]

You know what I mean? Like, he's telling the story in the most kind of colorful, outrageous way. I mean, he's essentially describing a prison break. Right. Like it's a prison break. It's a prison break they're breaking out of this adult kind of like Duffy. Yeah. And it's like it makes the story better.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. In reality, Tim Robb in Shaw, he was just paroled. None of that stuff actually happened. That's just how he tells the story.

[Josh Radner]

He remembered it that way.

[Alec Lev]

Okay, so just this story, obviously, ultimately is about something. Is about growing up and, and, and, and maturing and all of that. And so just a couple of comments on that, then a question. Bry for you. Go. Just says no question here. I love this episode. This episode completely changed my perspective about adulthood as the whole show did and uniquely show that growing up doesn't have to be scary and boring and hard. It's all up to where you want to go with your life. It's a well written proof. It is a well written proof and comfort. Thank you so much for the. Okay, awesome masterpiece. That is how I met your mother. Love. That's great. Ross. Underscore Wa says Lily feels her and Marshall need to grow up and do grown up stuff. Was that based on any real experience? Getting older and trying to. To toe the line between acting less silly but still having fun and finally, same genre value. It's a lot of use. XX says, this rewatch is amazing. I'm currently journaling about each episode and this podcast is gold. It complements each other so well. My question is the line or moment that you crossed and realized that you were already through the super joy of youth and had passed into the hell of adulthood. Discuss.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my God. That's a good turn at the end. I love.

[Josh Radner]

You know what the first comment reminded me of? I started making music with Ben Lee, who's this great Aussie songwriter, and he did a post on Instagram that I thought was quite interesting. He said, I want to encourage more artists to be haters. And it was, you know, a provocative opening. But his point was he, like, he has a huge hit song called Catch my disease and he just thought there's so Much like cynical, dark stuff out there right now. He just wanted to write, like, an optimistic bop, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And it became his biggest hit because he was annoyed at what he was hearing on the radio, you know, and he said it a good. You can make different directions with your art and your life by. By. It's just as informative to know what you don't like and what you don't want to be and the kind of art you. You actually have an allergy to because it can redirect you towards something else as an antidote to that. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And I feel like when I looked out at the. I don't know if we talked about this, Craig, but, like, I think we both had dads who wore suits. Weren't we talking about that? Like, we were talking about that with Carter, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radner]

Like, we had dads who wore suits. My dad was a trial lawyer. He looked like he just was so tired at the end of the day. He just. It was. There was a kind of Willy Lohman energy to him at the end of the day. And I think something in me was like, I don't think I want to wear a suit in my life. Like, I don't want to put on that uniform. And I think when you. You look out at the landscape of adulthood, when I was at. When I was at Vassar one summer, there were all these older actors in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and, man, they were drinking and having so much fun, and they were hooking up. If they were not, you know, if they were single, maybe they weren't single, I don't know. But I looked at them and I thought, oh, my God, you don't have to lose your childlike spirit. You don't have to lose your appetite for fun and silliness, Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radner]

And I found, like, being in show business, being an actor allowed me to have a life of play and spontaneity where I never. No one was ever like, well, you gotta. It's time you put on the tie. Like, stop having fun. Start, you know, despairing. Because I was really afraid, much like Marshall, Like, I was afraid that adulthood would be just a drag or a boar snore. Was that how I met your mother phrase, boar snore?

[Craig Thomas]

A boar snore? Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah. I was really afraid of it. And I'm 50 years old, and I have not found that to be the case. But I think I made certain decisions that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And I'm not, by the way. We all have to make, you know, decisions financially, and some of us have to, you know, put aside things that aren't working and go. I'm not saying that, but I do think, like, with my friends, right? We still. Even with you, Craig, like, we still make the same jokes we were making 20 years ago. Like, the same. Yeah, the same. They're in the same ballpark of silliness, you know? So I don't think you have to. I don't think you have to wine and cheese your way into the grave.

[Craig Thomas]

I think that's right. I think that's right. But I think when you're young, you think that is true. You think that's the qualification, that's the cost of adulthood. And I think when you're a kid and Even in your 20s, you think that. My daughter Celia just turned 9, and she's like this little sensitive soul. She's like this little writer and artist, and very. She just feels things very deeply, but she's also very funny, very silly. She turned nine and she got a little sad at one point on her ninth birthday, and she said, like, I don't want to grow up. It's so clear to me being a kid is the best part, and that adulthood's gonna be terrible. She had this conception of adulthood being so serious, and you won't be playful, you won't be joyful and silly anymore. And I said to Celia, I get it. I remember thinking that stuff, too. But just as an example, look at me. Look at your father. Do you think I'm a very serious person, or am I silly and ridiculous all the time? She's like, you're completely silly and ridiculous all the time. Literally. All the time.

[Josh Radner]

You're literally drumming right now.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, we can't even get you to be serious, even like, when she wants me to be serious. And I said, so, like, I'm one of the adults in your life, and I'm serious very, very, very small percentage of the time. And she was like, okay, yeah, so I guess you are an example of a ridiculous adult for whom I have no respect. Great. I can grow up and be a clown, too. And. But she. It comforted her. But it was interesting to see that perception. And I think that's what we were. That continues in your 20s. I remember feeling that way. I was like. My wife and I, she was. You know, we went to college together. We got engaged. We were the Marshall and Lilly of our friend group. That's why we wrote that into the show. And I do remember moments where I felt like we had to. We're supposed to have, like, grownups now. And our other friends, Carter and other people who weren't. They were out there having more fun. And that is what this episode was wrestling with. But I think it's interesting what you say, Josh, when you actually get there and you realize you can maintain your silliness and your play and your curiosity. That is a huge gift. And I don't think you understand that when you're younger that you can be.

[Josh Radner]

But I also think there's something. My wife and I, she's younger than me, but we have a phrase. I don't know if I've said this on the. But instead of saying the night is young, we say the night is old. Like, it's time. It's time to wrap this up. The night is old. And Alec, you can say that to.

[Craig Thomas]

Us when we're going too long in the podcast.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, the night is old.

[Alec Lev]

Okay.

[Josh Radner]

But when I, When I would see my parents, like, I'd be going out and my parents were getting into bed. Right. Like, you're going out at, like.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

9:45, 10 or whatever when you're 18, 19. And my parents were like. Like they were. It was done. Their day was over.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And I used to think it was so boring and sad that they were climbing into bed at 9:15, 9:30. If I can get myself in bed at 9:15.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, it's glorious.

[Josh Radner]

Glorious, glorious. You think? You know, I had a doctor years ago. Tell me. When you're younger, you're looking for ways to throw off energy because you have so much of it. And when you get older, you look for ways to conserve energy. But the difference is when you're younger and you see adults who are conserving energy by going to sleep early and waking up early, you think that their life is over and they're in some sort of, like, weird adult prison. The truth is, they're psyched. They're psyched to go to sleep early and they're psyched to wake up early. And the mornings are lovely. So, yeah, you don't have the same life you had when you're a kid, but you do have. It's swapped out for fascinating, beautiful things and you don't have to lose your spontaneity and sense of play.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And that's what Ted says, essentially, like, I can't wait to be boring with you at the wine and cheese party.

[Josh Radner]

Marshall.

[Craig Thomas]

That's the great generous thing that he says. Shouting because they all lost their hearing at the club, which is what makes that scene really funny. But that's the Theme of the episode, I'll get there with you, and I will sit there being boring and old with you, because that's the goal.

[Alec Lev]

There's a line that actually, Josh, I quote from liberal arts all the time when I think about myself and I think about age. It's what Richard Jenkins says. I don't have the exact line, I can help you, but when. Help me with it. You said line before I ruin it.

[Josh Radner]

Well, I think he says, I've never felt. Not 19.

[Alec Lev]

Right, right. That he said, that's the secret. Something like that. The secret is what they don't tell you or whatever it is. You always feel that young age. I don't know if that is true for all adults. You know, my father died very young, in his 40s, and he was an accountant. He had the suitcase, he had the suit and all of this. And he felt certainly a much older 46 year old than I think I was. I'm a little boy, you know, I definitely feel 19 and 18, and I don't feel a rush to grow up. And actually, for me, what's hard is taking on positions of leadership where I think, me, I'm gonna do this, but I'm 19, I can't do that. And they look at my haircut and they say, you're not, you're not 19. But that's always stayed with me that. I don't know if he says it as a good thing or a bad thing. It's just sort of a truth.

[Josh Radner]

I mean, I think he says it as a thing that is both true and mystifying because he says, I look in the mirror and I don't see a 19 year old staring back at me. I mean, aging is one of the most trippy, insane things we do. Because I remember I was talking to my friend Jamie, who I met right out of nyu. He was just out of Northwestern, and he and his friends had written this really brilliant musical and it was all about. It was basically like how I met your mother. It was all about like post collegiate, first year out of college in New York City, being confused, being in love, being drunk and stupid. But it was beautiful. And I reconnected with him a couple years ago and we're really back in each other's lives in a really great way. And I said, and he's got two daughters now, right? And I was like, isn't aging insane? And he said, yeah. I said, especially for us. Our entire brand was with that. We were young. Like, that was our whole thing. You know, at some point in New York City. We're like, we're the young people, like, we're the new crop. And suddenly you realize, like, I did this show Rise a couple years ago on NBC where I played this public school teacher and there are all these high school kids, you know, and they looked at me because they had grown up watching how I met your mother, and they'd seen other stuff I had done. I was suddenly like the elder in the room. And that, that happens very suddenly. It's like one day you're the, like the fresh eyed kind of apprentice. I mean, it's kind of cool watching like the Pit. Are you watching the Pit?

[Craig Thomas]

No.

[Josh Radner]

On HBO or Max. Like, Noah Wiley is this like seasoned veteran emergency room doctor, but in our memory, in our collective memory, he's like, that is the wide eyed young guy, first day on the job, and now he's the one taking through the, the youngsters through their job, you know, teaching them the ropes. So that just happens naturally. I mean, I, I both, I think I'm fortunate in that I both like being a student and a mentor. Like, I like them both. And I still consider myself a student in a lot of ways. But I also, I like giving advice when I have something to offer, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Well, I think we're talking about what Future Ted is essentially trying to do with his children writ large across the entire series in some ways, which is cool.

[Alec Lev]

Before we close here, we actually have an audio question from Maya Rupert, friend of the show. Craig, do you want to tell us a little bit about who Maya is?

[Craig Thomas]

Josh and I are both friendly with Maya, but Josh, you've met her in real life and I haven't. Right. I think maybe you should talk about it.

[Josh Radner]

I have. She's come to some of my shows. She came to my play at the Public. She's lovely. I mean, she works in Democratic politics at, like the highest levels. She's incredibly thoughtful and sincere and motivated, but she also loves music and she loves comedy and she loves How I Met yout Mother. And she's just been really wonderful to both of us.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Really smart, really cool, really, really brilliant person. The kind of person you're just psyched is a fan of the thing you did. You know, whether it's your music or your show, she's the best.

[Alec Lev]

All right, well, we have the rare audio question for this general question. Here we go.

[Maya Rupert]

Hey, Craig and Josh. It is Maya Rupert, huge fan of the podcast and as you know, huge fan of the two of you as well. Okay. Awesome. Has a huge place in My heart. I am writing a book. It will be out in early 2026. And one of the sort of central metaphors that I use in the book is actually derived from this episode. I have something I call my okay, awesome list, which is basically a list of things that I don't like, but I don't want to admit because they are supposed to be awesome. And anytime someone suggested one of these things to me, I would. As like my own little inside joke with myself, I would say, okay, awesome, and then figure out a way to get out of it later. So my question is, what are on your okay, awesome lists? Were they the things that Ted and coach Hit Girl were discussing, or do you have other ones? I would love to hear.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a great question. I love that question. Definitely some of those. I think the one I pitched really hard was parades. I think that might have been mine because I really. Ted says twice in the list. No, I really hate parades. That might have been mine. I've never been on a cruise, but they don't seem great. What are the other ones from that? They said the Super Bowl. Super bowl can be anticlimactic.

[Josh Radner]

New Year's Eve. I'm not. I don't.

[Craig Thomas]

New Year's Eve was in the episode, too, which I thought was a nice little call forward.

[Josh Radner]

You know, I have a thing about certain, like, very fancy foods I actually find disgusting. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's okay for ethical reasons to hate this, but I think foie gras is one of the worst tastes I've ever had. And also textbook challenge, like, bone marrow, like, you know, in the thing, like, get that away from me.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. My food version of that is not a fancy food, but just raisins. I think everything is made slightly worse by putting raisins in there.

[Josh Radner]

I would say that I hate raisins in things, but I don't mind a little red thing.

[Craig Thomas]

I'll eat the red thing. I'll be honest. I'll eat the red thing, too. Just don't put them in there.

[Josh Radner]

You know, I have a weird one, and it's literally the main source of tension in my marriage.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God, Maya, you've gotten to some precarious.

[Josh Radner]

Jordana is a legitimate fan of television in a way that I simply am not. And I know it's strange because I've made my living mostly on it. I like making it. I don't have the patience and stamina to sit down and binge. And so she really wants me to just sit there with Her. And that's how she decompresses after. That's her. And she doesn't glaze out or zone out. She can really be present with me. But we. We've struck up a kind of compromise where I will sit next to her and maybe I'll be on my computer doing a crossword puzzle, and I'll kind of half watch the show. But she really feels like she wants more of. And I can't. For some reason, I can't do TV the way that most people do tv, which is like, I love this show. I'm going to keep watching. I'm gonna watch a lot of episodes.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really funny.

[Josh Radner]

We watched Adolescence, and I watched all four in a day, and boy, was she proud of me.

[Craig Thomas]

But. So she's not watching, like, dumb stuff Adolescence seems. No, no, she has good. She has good drinking.

[Josh Radner]

No, she has good taste stuff. There's one show that I will not name that is absolute garbage.

[Craig Thomas]

Maya will text you that on the side. Whatever.

[Josh Radner]

But you know what? I almost enjoy that one more because I can make fun of the show over her shoulder, and I make her laugh because she knows, you know, she's not thinking she's watching something great.

[Craig Thomas]

But that's so funny.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I would put. I would. I would add the circus and roller coasters. She busted.

[Josh Radner]

She busted me. She says, I feel like I have to defend myself.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Alec Lev]

Saved my life.

[Craig Thomas]

When you watch podcast first.

[Josh Radner]

No, I just said that.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, okay.

[Josh Radner]

I said that. Okay. She said it was the best day of her life. When I watched four episodes of Adolescence.

[Craig Thomas]

I love that she knew to what spidey sense went off in Jordana. When you said, okay, the biggest issue in my marriage is. And she just came from the other room.

[Josh Radner]

He said, a spidey sense went off with you, and you just, like, came.

[Craig Thomas]

From the other room knowing we were talking.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's. So I won't name the show because there's nice people on it. I love it. She loves it.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Don't name the show. I would add one other thing for me personally. Tropical beach vacations. Whenever I try to go, like, to a resort or somewhere, like Swiss Freight, my wife and I went on one. On day one, we stepped on sea urchins and became incapacitated. Like, we could not walk for several days. We got, like, hundreds of sea urchin things. Yeah, that just always goes wrong for me.

[Josh Radner]

Jordana and I have tried. We keep trying beaches, and we just finally looked at each other and we were like, we don't like it.

[Craig Thomas]

At a certain point, I just went, I'm Irish. I'm Irish. I just want to. I want to be in the rain. It's great.

[Josh Radner]

We're mountains and lakes, people.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, me too.

[Josh Radner]

And cities. You know, I like cities.

[Craig Thomas]

Anyway, Maya, we are honored, honored that you're putting that in the book. And everybody look out for Maya's book. She's a really, really smart, cool person and writer and. Yeah. So thank you, Maya.

[Alec Lev]

Well, the night is old, folks.

[Josh Radner]

The night is old.

[Craig Thomas]

The night is old.

[Alec Lev]

That is another episode of General Questions.

[Craig Thomas]

General Questions, Questions.

[Alec Lev]

Thank you so much. Keep sending them in through Instagram and we will keep on trying to answer them.

[Josh Radner]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven In New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Mattis. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse letters on Substack. Read Craig Thomas's published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My Dead Father Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing provided by Tink Media. People will, in fact, dance the real question.

[Josh Radner]

It just hit me. Am I in love with you, you or just New York City?