General Questions | S1E6 "The Slutty Pumpkin"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother - Episode S1E6: "The Slutty Pumpkin"

Release Date: May 1, 2025
Hosts: Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas
Guests: Producer Alec Lev
Episode Type: General Questions Bonus Episode

---

Introduction

In this special bonus episode of "How We Made Your Mother," hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve into Episode 6 of "How I Met Your Mother" (HIMYM), titled "The Slutty Pumpkin." This episode focuses on fan-submitted general questions, providing listeners with behind-the-scenes insights into the creation and legacy of one of HIMYM's most beloved episodes.

---

Origins and Inspirations Behind "The Slutty Pumpkin"

Alec Lev, the show's producer, introduces the primary focus: the inspiration and writing process for "The Slutty Pumpkin." The conversation reveals that the episode was heavily influenced by the beloved "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" from the Peanuts series.

Craig Thomas explains,

"The inspiration was, let's rip off. It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown for sure. For sure it was that."
(00:44)

This homage was chosen to align with CBS's tradition of airing Halloween specials, making "The Slutty Pumpkin" both a tribute and a staple within the show's narrative structure.

---

Development of the Slutty Pumpkin Concept

Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas discuss the creative process behind the whimsical yet peculiar term "Slutty Pumpkin." They explore the appeal and stickiness of the phrase, acknowledging its quirky nature and how it resonated with audiences.

Josh Radnor muses,

"It's satisfying, but it also. You go, how does a pumpkin get slutty?"
(02:55)

This playful ambiguity contributed to the episode's enduring popularity, sparking countless fan interpretations and creative Halloween costumes.

---

Challenges of Holiday-Centered Episodes

Responding to listener Nora Kintanar's question about the difficulties in crafting holiday episodes, Craig Thomas shares the team's cautious approach:

"If you didn't have a story that kind of was worthy of it... we just wouldn't do it because we were scared. We're going to not clear our own bar."
(06:08)

The hosts reveal that while holiday episodes offer a ready-made festive backdrop, they also pose high expectations. The team opted to produce these episodes only when they had compelling narratives that honored both the holiday and the series' integrity.

---

Listener Engagement and Fan Contributions

The episode highlights engaging interactions with listeners, addressing questions such as:

• Danny Hagney inquires about the inspiration behind the Slutty Pumpkin.
• Gabe Silva seeks clarification on the connection between "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" and the HIMYM episode.

Additionally, Justin shares his perspective on how "The Slutty Pumpkin" encapsulates the essence of HIMYM, praising the portrayal of key characters and the episode's thematic depth.

---

Behind the Scenes: McLaren's Bar and Iconic Moments

Craig Thomas provides a nostalgic look back at McLaren's Bar, the real-life inspiration for the show's primary hangout spot. He emphasizes the authenticity infused into the set design, mirroring the actual bar where he and his co-creator Carter Bays spent their early years.

"McLaren's is a shout out to McGee's Still Alive and kicking on 55th street between Broadway and 8th."
(19:20)

The hosts also reminisce about memorable moments, such as the creation of the Tootsie Roll cocktail by writer Brenda Shea and the lasting impact of the hanging chad costume inspired by the episode. These elements have become cherished by fans, forging a tangible connection between the show and its audience.

---

Character Development and Thematic Resonance

In discussing the episode's significance, Josh Radnor reflects on Ted Mosby's character arc:

"Ted was more like, I thought he was really funny, but his comedic engine hadn't totally been found yet. But what had always been there from the start was his sincerity, his heart."
(16:07)

Craig Thomas concurs, highlighting the culminating scene between Ted and Robin on the rooftop:

"It's the premise of the entire series and why we're watching it and who Ted is in this really great way."
(17:00)

This exchange underscores the show's central themes of hope, friendship, and the complexities of love, reinforcing Ted's role as the optimistic heart of the narrative.

---

Reflection on Ted's Optimism and Personal Growth

Responding to a deeply philosophical question about Ted's enduring optimism, Josh Radnor offers a heartfelt perspective:

"The best kind of optimism is not like a Pollyanna-ish denial of darkness or shadow, but one that actually incorporates it and says life is hard, it'll knock you around... and I have faith in myself."
(20:58)

He draws parallels between Ted's unwavering hope and his personal beliefs, emphasizing the importance of maintaining faith amidst life's challenges. This reflection not only enriches the understanding of Ted's character but also resonates with listeners on a universal level.

---

Conclusion

Episode S1E6 of "How We Made Your Mother" serves as a comprehensive exploration of "The Slutty Pumpkin," unraveling the creative inspirations, character nuances, and cultural impact that have solidified its place in HIMYM lore. Through engaging discussions and thoughtful reflections, Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas offer fans both nostalgic memories and new insights, celebrating the episode's legacy within the broader tapestry of the series.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Thomas:

  "The whole set sort of felt Christmassy after that, even though it was like November 5th."
  (07:19)

• Josh Radnor:

  "This is better to err on the side of faith. I am guilty. Please acquit me."
  (24:22)

---

Additional Resources:

• Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts or your preferred podcast platform.
• Visit howwemadeyourmother.com for more insights, fan events, and to join the Substack mailing list.
• Follow Josh Radnor's Muse Letters and Craig Thomas's published prose on their respective Substack pages.

---

This summary captures the essence of the "General Questions | S1E6 'The Slutty Pumpkin'" episode, providing a detailed overview for both long-time fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Craig Thomas]

Foreign.

[Josh Radnor]

Hello and welcome to another very special bonus episode of How We Made youe Mother. The bonus episodes we are referring to as General questions. General questions.

[Craig Thomas]

There's always a delay. I don't know what happens.

[Josh Radnor]

Always a delay. We can't sync this. We have to get in person and do this. I'm joined, as ever, by my friend Craig Thomas. Hello, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

Hey. Craig co created this show, How I Met yout Mother with, with our buddy Carter Base. And we're answering all the general questions. General questions. General questions about episode, episode six, the Slutty Pumpkin. So, Alec, hello, Alec Lev, our co producer or our producer and friend. What do you got for us? What did the listeners want to know about the listeners?

[Alec Lev]

I would call these more broad questions about the writing of it. Obviously. Let's just go ahead and respect the fact that 30 people just kind of wanted basic origin stories here. It was not a Chiquita Banana costume. It was not a plum. It was a pumpkin. Where did this come from? But I'll broaden out a little bit into the writer's mind here. So you kind of have the ideas of, oh, let's do a Halloween show. You have the Ted is going to doggedly, you know, stay at this party because of this girl. And then you have a slutty pumpkin. Do you remember kind of what influenced what, what came first? What was the inspiration for the whole thing?

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, for sure the inspiration was, let's rip off. It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown for sure. For sure it was that. And then it had to be a pumpkin. So that decision was made for us when we decided to rip off, ruthlessly rip off chart. But yeah, it was really that. It was really from that initial idea and just the thought, you know, this is an episode about Ted having faith and Ted sort of doing this ritual each year. And a way to get to know Ted better. But yeah, really, it was peanut. We have peanuts to thank.

[Josh Radnor]

It's also like, did you ever read Craig Jeff Tweedy's book How to Write a Great Song?

[Craig Thomas]

I own it and have not read.

[Josh Radnor]

It, but now I'm writing. Yeah, he has this writing exercise where he says, like, I forget what he calls it, but he says like, Write down like 10 baseball terms and then write down 10 adjectives so you end up with like lovely steel or like, yeah, frightful bases or something like that where you're trying to like put weird words together that trip something like kind of delightful in your head. And I feel like Slutty Pumpkin is.

[Craig Thomas]

One of those it's very satisfying to say.

[Josh Radnor]

It's satisfying, but it also. You go, how does a pumpkin get slutty? Like, what?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. What's happening?

[Josh Radnor]

What's the mechanics involved in a pumpkin being slutty? But also, you know, Barney's theory about, like, everything gets slutified is that. What is. That would be the word.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I think that's what he says, more or less. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, I also. I'm reading this Melissa Febos book, who's a great writer called Girlhood, where she talks about a slut. The origins of the word slut. I think it used to be, like, about housekeeping, like, when things were, like, left around your house was really slutty when it was messy. And then it morphed. Yeah. And then it morphed into this kind of thing. So, anyway, that's just what I'm reading lately.

[Craig Thomas]

I like it. It's very poetic. It is. There's something about that phrase, slutty pumpkin. It's sort of like this. It's very sticky.

[Josh Radnor]

It sticks in your head.

[Craig Thomas]

It is. It's sticky. That slutty pumpkin. This is just. We're just making it even more horrible sounding the more that we say. But, yeah, no, it definitely came from. It definitely came from Peanuts and just loving. You know, it was a bunch of writers in a room that all grew up watching It's a Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown, which I think used to. I think that always used to air on cbs, if I'm remembering my childhood correctly. So we thought, we're on cbs. We will own this. We will just be part of that CBS Halloween tradition. And, yeah, it was just our love letter to that and Linus and Ted. There's such a comparison to the sort of hopefulness of those two characters.

[Josh Radnor]

It also reminds me, Craig, that or it makes me think that you guys were big fans of this holiday classic. But in your love of it and your homage to a holiday classic, you made another holiday classic. Right? Like, it's like a remix or a reconceiving of something that you put your own stamp on and it becomes its own thing. Right. It's like Shakespeare, like, stole all these plots and updated them and made them his own.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, like, if Kid Rock had made good songs, that sort of thing.

[Josh Radnor]

Sorry, Kid Rock, you can take the head.

[Craig Thomas]

No, that's thrilling. We loved a good Halloween episode because it's just. It's. It gives you something to start with. You're in a world to begin with. It's not from a standing start. You're in some goodwill, people are just excited. Like today's Halloween or more or less Halloween. And we're seeing this TV show about it. There's just something just, you're off to the races. We never shied away from. I missed it whenever we didn't do a Halloween.

[Josh Radnor]

And also there's weird stuff that happens when people put on costumes and, you know, your clown can come out or your demons can come out or. What was the. One of my favorite. We'll get to this, obviously, but one of my favorite Halloween gags on the show was when they were gonna go as the Breakfast Club, but everyone dressed up as John Michael.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my God, that's one of my favorite jokes.

[Josh Radnor]

I think in the end, such a funny joke. And it's such a like kind of just for Gen Xers, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Such a good joke.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, there's an age cutoff for that joke. But if you're in the red zone, you love that joke.

[Alec Lev]

You've covered a bunch of things. I just wanna shout out some of our listeners here. Danny Hagney asked, what is the inspiration for the Slutty Pumpkin? And Gabe Silva won said, can you explain the connection or influence of it's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown on this episode. So there you go. And then also Nora Kintanar asked, can you talk about the challenge of holiday centered episodes and why or how you chose specific holidays to depict like Halloween and Thanksgiving in particular?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I would say something about that, which is just that you were so excited if you had a great idea for a Halloween episode or a Thanksgiving episode or Christmas episode. But if you didn't, it was very daunting. And that's why some years we did them and some years we didn't. It was like, because we did a couple good ones early, we did a couple really good holiday themed episodes in the first couple seasons. And when it got a few in and was like, we are not going to live up to our own. Not only are we going to not live up to the grand tradition of a Thanksgiving episode, we're not going to live up to the one we did a year ago, then we just wouldn't do it because we were scared. We're like, we're going to not clear our own bar. So it was both great if you could kind of use the momentum of a holiday to tell a story, and yet daunting if you didn't have a story that kind of was worthy of it. And that's probably. You can go year by year and see the ones where we clearly felt we didn't have a good enough idea.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, this is just the actor perspective, but it also translates to the writers. You would do these holiday episodes and you would feel somewhat festive because in the fictional context, you were celebrating the holiday. But we were recording a Halloween episode in September, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And you do your Thanksgiving episode in October and you do your Christmas episode in November. So you're always like six weeks ahead of the holiday.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it feels like the holiday already happened.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really funny. It's true. You feel like. Yeah, you're sort of weirdly off kilter. You're living in your own universe where Christmas already happened. But there's something kind of great about that Christmas. It would just set this tone of. It would get you in the spirit in November and then that would sort of last. I always liked that the whole set sort of felt Christmassy after that, even though it was like November 5th. I want to say one other thing, Alec, which is just, I think when you talked about the episode proper, the episode, about this episode episode rather than this, I forgot to shout out and just wanted to. Before I forget, Brenda Shea, who wrote this episode, very funny writer, wrote on him for a few seasons, went on to write for a bunch of other cool shows and she wrote the Pixar movie Elemental. Really talented, cool, funny writer, and very much invented the drink the Tootsie Roll in this episode. And Alec, it looks like from the shock expression of synergy on your face.

[Josh Radnor]

He'S drunk on Tootsie Rolls.

[Craig Thomas]

My God, he's been knocking back dead zeros all day. I liked. And people would write us. Well, first of all, this episode spawned a trillion Halloween costumes. And just to say this, even now, 10 years, 11 years after showing off the air, we get these costumes set to us people as Robin sparkles, people as a slutty pumpkin, people as Ted's hanging chad. People make those homemade hanging chad outfits. I've seen so many, Josh, I hope you've seen those too. This past element, someone sent me that they were going as that. And that's amazing that that came from the episode. And also Brenda Shea, I know that her invention of that drink, I know that a lot of him fans tried to mix that drink and I think said it was quite delicious. I have no excuse to make for myself that I have not yet tried that. I will go immediately and between this and the next episode of recording, get super hammered and just see what happens.

[Josh Radnor]

You know that. But the hanging chad, it could be argued the hanging chad Costume is the only good thing to come out of Bush v. Gore Circus 2000.

[Craig Thomas]

Do you know that moment in the episode where they're talking about the political relevance of it and they're like, ah, it's a sad commentary that no one remembers the hanging Chad anymore. And then the parrots.

[Josh Radnor]

We revived it.

[Craig Thomas]

We revived it. And also look where we are now in modern politics. Anyway, let's get back to the show.

[Alec Lev]

Let's just. Let's let's go right into it. Sophia Gomez won. Have you guys actually tried the Tootsie Roll drink in real life? Curious if it's good. Natalia. Natalia. I can't do it.

[Craig Thomas]

Natalia. Just a pitch. I'm going to pitch the right way to say that name.

[Alec Lev]

N, A, L, I, A, I, E, A. Oh, no. T, E. Right. I don't know what to call who invented the Tootsie Roll. And Amy wins. Who came up with the Tootsie Roll along with other people.

[Craig Thomas]

So Brenda Shay. Brenda Shea, who often pointed out that her name sounded like the chorus of Cannonball by the Breeders. Brenda Shea. Brenda Shea. Anyway, I don't know what's happening. I drank a Tootsie Roll in between answers, but I don't know why I've never tried that drink. You think the writers. Maybe one time we did it in the writer's room. I think we did. I think Brenda invented. And we said, yeah, let's try it. And I've gotten a lot of good reports from people, fans online who say they drink it every Halloween and it's great. So I think Brenda really did invent a cocktail.

[Josh Radnor]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. Well, Craig, I'm taking my guitar like a mythic traveling troubadour.

[Craig Thomas]

Look at this. This is great. You're going to ride the rails.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm going to ride the rails over to. From Brooklyn to Seattle. I heard here it's a short trip on the rails.

[Craig Thomas]

Please pack your podcasting mic into your bindle stick because we got to still record a few of these.

[Josh Radnor]

That's all I'm carrying. That's all I'm taking.

[Craig Thomas]

That's all you're taking? Just a guitar and a podcasting mic? Just a modern day troubadour. Amazing.

[Josh Radnor]

These are my two main gigs right now. I'm zipping down the west coast, then I'm gonna do a swing through the Midwest. I got some dates in Nashville on the books. I'm doing the Franklin Theater and then I'm doing the show at the Gibson Garage, which is super cool. Have you been to the Gibson Garage in Nashville?

[Craig Thomas]

I've never been to Nashville.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, you haven't? Oh, my friend, you gotta go to Nashville. You would love it.

[Craig Thomas]

Do you need a backup guitarist for the whole tour? And I should just come on the tour?

[Josh Radnor]

You're a drummer.

[Craig Thomas]

I play some guitar. I play more guitar than drums these days. You're not getting out of this. You're taking me as your guitar player.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, Elliot's the drummer. You're the guitarist.

[Craig Thomas]

Elliot's my son. Kicked me off the drums.

[Josh Radnor]

He's very good. Craig, this is now the third week in a row I believe you've invited yourself to try to join me on my travels.

[Craig Thomas]

I think you just. I think you just invited. Rewind the tape. I think you invited me. I think somewhere in the middle of there, I heard an invitation.

[Josh Radnor]

No, I think. I think the record will show that I did not. Are we not spending enough time together at this weekly.

[Craig Thomas]

This is one hour. This is an hour of our life. This tour sounds amazing. I counted the cities you said and I realized that you're going to be gone at least one or two nights and while you're gone While you're gone.

[Josh Radnor]

While I'm on the rails While you're.

[Craig Thomas]

On the rails with the bindle stick with the podcast mic and the guitar as. As the lull. As the. The sounds of the freight train lull you off to sleep and you finish that can of beans when you're thinking back to your home that you left behind. What's happening? Are you doing anything at all with that home that you left behind?

[Josh Radnor]

No, I'm just liquidating my savings to ride the rails I like. I don't. I've made some poor decisions.

[Craig Thomas]

You've made. These are terrible decisions. You could be refilling those coffers, I dare say. Trying to be old timey by hosting your place on Airbnb while you're out there riding those rails and singing those songs and words and the truth.

[Josh Radnor]

This is like memento. Week to week. I forget that I have this.

[Craig Thomas]

You do. This is so weird. This is like a neurological exam that you're failing.

[Josh Radnor]

I gotta tattoo it on my body. What's the website? I'm gonna tattoo it.

[Craig Thomas]

Here it is. Well, I don't know if I have a website, but here's what I want to say to you now. Oh, there is a website. Ready? Here it is. I'm just going to spontaneously say this now. Josh, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host got it. I know you're not going to remember. I'm going to tell you all over again next week, so let's just move on.

[Alec Lev]

Josh, let me ask if you remember. So now, again, we're on episode seven, trying to get into the mind of the actor. Back then, you are on this TV show, this is happening, and you get handed a script that's like a, you know, it's very Ted heavy. It's also kind of a big, grand Ted idea. Right? I mean, I don't know if you could tell at the time, oh, this is gonna be a big. A big thing. But when you get a script like that, that's you heavy on a new show that you're on. Did that go? Oh, I'm, I'm so excited. There's. There's a big thing for Ted to do here.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, Greg Malins, I think, said something to me early on. Was Greg on season one or did he come on season two?

[Craig Thomas]

He came season two. Greg Malins, really funny writer, executive producer from Friends and came and was on how much rather starting in season two.

[Josh Radnor]

I love Greg. Greg, he had a bit of a. I mean, he was so young, but he had such, like, elder energy. And I think something about, like, having written on Friends for a lot of years gave him this. This kind of sitcom gravitas.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, big time.

[Josh Radnor]

He would tell me some things that were really calming. And I remember he said to me once, you can't worry about week to week, like, whether you have a strong episode or good episode or you got the good jokes or not good jokes. Like, you. You just have to know that the vibe is good, like, the show is working. And if a show runs long enough, everyone gets their moment in the sun. Everyone gets their arcs, everyone gets their romances. You know, you. You can see when even, like a show like Friends, you can see when they crack Joey and they, like, turn their attention to Joey more. Right. And Matt LeBlanc rose to the occasion. Right. Like, he wasn't just the, like, side character. They, like, explored some more stuff with him. So, you know, I, I think you're always. There's always a negotiation between being a team player and having your ego kind of throw a temper tantrum. I think that I, coming from the theater, I always looked at being a part of an ensemble as an honorable thing. That's what I learned at nyu. It's what I learned in the theater, that even if you were the lead of the show, you were a Part of a working organism, and everyone had their part to play. And maybe I'm making myself sound more magnanimous than I was, but I certainly. Sometimes there'd be episodes I remember where I was a little confused. Matchmaker is one of them. Right. Which we're going to talk about soon. But where I was a little confused until the end. Like, Ted, you would always. You would always. You would often use Ted to land the plane. Especially in early seasons where he was the one who kind of like reminded people what we were doing here. Reminded people what the stakes of the show were. Reminded people that he was the faith keeper, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I, And I felt like in Slutty Pumpkin, there's. There's just the. This classic great scene between Ted and Robin and the roof at the end. And I sometimes felt, you know, so I, I felt like we hadn't quite discovered like, smarty pants college Ted right at this point.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So Ted was more like, I thought he was really funny, but his comedic engine hadn't totally been found yet. But what had always been there from the start was his sincerity, his heart, forward kind of. And I always felt gratified when you guys went back to that well and used me in this very particular way. Which you did in this episode.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, that roof scene at the end, I feel like kind of restates the premise of the entire series and why we're watching it and who Ted is in this really great way. Like when Ted says that line that I'm not gonna butcher, I'm sure, but basically, like, I know the Slutty Pumpkin's not gonna walk through the door at 2:43am but this is as good a place as I need to sit and wait, basically. And it's almost like an invitation to the viewer, like, this is what this show is. We will be entertaining while you wait.

[Josh Radnor]

We're going to be drunk on a roof at 2:45. Come join us.

[Craig Thomas]

If you want to be drunk on a roof for nine years with us, this is the place to be.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

There are a lot of people who write questions that. Where they just do great little summary character summaries. We've read one or two of them before and I kind of like to highlight them because people clearly did a lot of work to. To put this question together, which is nice. And so, yes, it's me. Underscore. Justin says this episode is probably the one that hooked me. Having listened to the podcast episode so far, it feels like this was one of those one off episodes that encapsulates the whole series. Ted's constant optimism, Marshall and Lily's loving support, Barney's annoyance at said optimism, and Robin coming in at the end to be the centering point in the moment. When writing these episodes, do you have awareness of this, or am I just romanticizing the writing experience?

[Craig Thomas]

I think we had an awareness. I think we wanted this to be a Ted defining episode and then a Robin defining episode. It was the first episode where we kind of opened the hood of kind of Robin's insecurities and her self doubt even. And the way Ted can kind of comfort her puts him in kind of a different relationship to her. He's been seeking her out and kind of chasing her, and now he's comforting her. And she's even saying to him, yeah, you're a little crazy, but I kind of wish I had a little more of that crazy. And so that was. I think we had that premise. We thought, it's the Peanuts idea. We'll use the Peanuts kind of hook to show an episode where Ted seems crazy for having this faith the way that Linus does. But in the end, faith is a good thing. So I think that was like the through line the whole time.

[Alec Lev]

Okay, just two more sort of small questions here. And we obviously know the answer to this, but you can talk a little bit about this. And Sabhar Walharashita asks, Is McLaren's bar based on a real bar?

[Craig Thomas]

McLaren's bar is totally based on a real bar, down to the design elements, down to the color of the booth, down to the huge murals on the wall, the color of the green lamps on the bar. And it was this bar that Carter and I spent a bunch of our early mid-20s going to that was two blocks away from Lecho with David Letterman, where we worked and where the entire staff of and crew of that show went out and got super drunk every Thursday night. And it was just a huge part of our 20s. And so McLaren's is a shout out to McGee's Still Alive and kicking on 55th street between Broadway and 8th, I believe. And it's kind of the how I met your mother bar. They've very much leaned into it being the how I met your mother bar. So if you're ever in New York, you can go there. You can probably drink a Tootsie Roll. I'm not sure exactly if it's a Tootsie Roll. I know they have some drinks called, like, Robin Sparkles and other things, the Minnesota Tidal wave. And we've done some fan events there. And it gets crazy and packed and it's great. So head up there if you're in nyc.

[Alec Lev]

Josh, just maybe a time now because in the early days of this podcast many years ago we talked about the idea of you at your age now looking back at the character at that age then and looking back at the portrayal of the character at that age and Craig writing of an older character, looking back as younger character. I just want to pause over this now and just. Do you have thoughts now about, about Ted's optimism, his whether it's too optimistic, not optimistic enough. Do you like where he's going? How do you feel of, about Ted as a human, as a 30 year old human, as a, as now? Josh, a 50 year old human?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that's a great question. I look at him and I admire it. I think that it's kind of incredible to get to 27 or almost 30 and have that level of faith and naivete on some level. But I think that Ted and not dissimilar for me, but in totally different ways, life, it needed to tenderize him a bit. He needed to get heartbroken a little bit more. He needed to get scuffed up a little bit more. I think the, the best kind of optimism is not like a Pollyanna ish denial of darkness or shadow, but one that actually incorporates it and says life is hard, it'll knock you around. But also I, I do have faith and I, I have faith not just, not just blind faith in some sort of like benevolent, you know, hand that's going to swoop in and fix everything. But I have faith in myself. I have faith in myself that I, that I have instincts. I've surrounded myself with good people. I believe, you know, that the universe is not, that is a, is a friendly place as Einstein said, you know, are the only choice we have. That's the only, the biggest question. Do we think the is friendly or not? And so I, I, I think that it's like adorable and I don't mean that in like a condescending way. Like there is something adorable about his, his naive optimism. But I also can see up ahead like there's some, there's some rapids up ahead for him that he's going to have to navigate. And you know, I imagine it's not unlike being a parent where you look at your kid and you want to create an incredibly safe world for them and you drop them off at college or they go to their first job or whatever and like you're not going to be able to childproof the world for them. Like, yeah, you know, did we talk Craig, about. I might have told you, but Gary Goleman has a great joke. You know, millennials, like, everyone gets a, everyone gets a trophy. And people say, well, if everyone gets a trophy, how are they going to learn how to fail? And he says, oh, I don't know. Have you ever heard of life? You know, just like life will, it'll get you. It'll get you no matter how kind of bubble wrapped you are as a young person. So I think that I really, you know, I love Nick Cave so much because he's had so much loss in his life and he's had so much hardship and he's incredibly magnanimous and thoughtful and compassionate and tender, you know, because I think, I think the hardness of life can either tender us or harden us. And I choose. My hope is that it tenderizes me. But the temptation to harden up and get tougher and get a little folded, armed and cynical is always there. The invitation's always there. So for me, Ted is just a reminder. Like in the last analysis, it's better to err on the side of faith. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven. In New York City, How We Made.

[Alec Lev]

Youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Read Craig Thomas published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing, provided by Tink Media. People will, in fact, dance the real.

[Josh Radnor]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York city.