General Questions | S1E8 "The Duel"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother - Episode S1E8 "The Duel" Summary

Release Date: May 15, 2025
Hosts: Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas

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Overview of "The Duel" Episode

In this episode, Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve into Season 1, Episode 8 of How I Met Your Mother titled "The Duel." They provide a concise refresher on the episode's three main plotlines:

1. Lily's Apartment Transformation: Lily's apartment is repurposed into a Chinese restaurant in Queens.
2. Ted and Marshall's Sword Fight: Ted and Marshall engage in a sword fight to determine who gets to keep the apartment following their marriage.
3. Barney's Lemon Law: Barney introduces the "Lemon Law," where a date can be exited within the first five minutes if it doesn't go well by simply calling "Lemon Law."

Josh encapsulates the episode succinctly, with Craig affirming, “[00:25] Craig Thomas: It's getting better.”

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Fan Interactions and Listener Questions

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to engaging with fans through their questions and comments. Alec Lev introduces a heartfelt message from a listener named Brian4Ugo:

• Brian4Ugo's Gratitude: Brian expresses immense gratitude for the podcast and its efforts to revive old HIMYM websites. He shares how the podcast has been a highlight of his week and a source of support during tough times, stating, “[02:13] Brian4Ugo: How I Met Your Mother changed my life and has supported me through the toughest times.”

Josh and Craig react warmly to Brian's message, emphasizing the podcast's role as an ongoing conversation with the fanbase.

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The Mystery of HIMYM Websites

A recurring theme in the discussion is the challenge of reclaiming ownership of various HIMYM-related websites. Alec reveals progress, stating, “[08:31] Alec Lev: We are now the owners of marshallandlilysparty.com, theymisstheirfriends.com, and bigbusinessjournal.biz.” However, many other sites remain under unknown ownership, with some listed for exorbitant prices. Craig humorously likens one of these sites to a "Van Gogh," highlighting its cultural significance: “[09:22] Craig Thomas: Barney Stinson's breast reduction website is a Van Gogh. That's what we're saying.”

Josh adds a nostalgic touch by reminiscing about the treasure hunt nature of these websites during the show's original run, enhancing the sense of community among fans.

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Behind the Scenes: Writing and Production Insights

The hosts shed light on the integral role of writer's assistants and script coordinators in shaping the show's humor and depth. Craig emphasizes the talent and dedication of these individuals, noting, “[07:42] Craig Thomas: They're amazingly talented people who wanted to prove themselves.” He highlights how tasks like writing Barney’s blog entries served as auditions for writers, with many assistants eventually becoming full-fledged writers on the show.

Josh praises the creativity involved, comparing the process to being an impressionist, “[07:59] Josh Radner: But you're doing the voice of Barney. Like, can you inhabit the consciousness of this psycho guy?”

This segment underscores the collaborative spirit that fueled HIMYM's success, celebrating the behind-the-scenes efforts that fans often overlook.

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Listener Clip: Recreating "The Duel" in a Stage Combat Class

A heartfelt audio clip from a listener named Anna is featured, where she shares her experience of performing "The Duel" in a college stage combat class:

• Anna's Experience: “[16:53] Anna: I convinced my scene partner to do a scene from How I Met Your Mother in the duel. It was one of the strangest final scenes, but it got the most laughs.”

Josh and Craig express delight over this homage, with Josh recounting his own experiences in stage combat training for the show, “[17:57] Josh Radner: I had some training... but I did it more like kids playing.”

Their discussion touches on the blend of professionalism and playfulness that made "The Duel" a memorable episode, reflecting on how acting and choreography brought authenticity and humor to the show.

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Personal Reflections on Apartments and the Concept of Home

The conversation shifts to a more personal level as the hosts reflect on their own living spaces and the emotional connections tied to them.

• Craig's Story: Craig shares memories of living in early New York apartments, highlighting the challenges and growth he experienced: “[25:00] Craig Thomas: We had an apartment on 75th Street that reminded us of the Marshall and Ted apartment.”

• Josh's Emotional Connection: Josh delves into his sentimental attachment to his former apartments, recounting moving from a beloved $750/month apartment to a new house: “[24:59] Josh Radner: I was devastated that I had to leave this... weird apartment. But it was my apartment and I had a lot of great memories there.”

He further explores the idea of home as a dynamic concept, not tied to a physical structure but rather to the people and experiences within it: “[30:28] Josh Radner: She had this feeling that wherever we went, it would feel like home. Us together felt like home.”

This heartfelt discussion emphasizes the transient nature of living spaces and the enduring essence of "home" as a feeling rather than a location.

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Set Design and Production Anecdotes

Josh and Craig share amusing behind-the-scenes stories about set design, particularly the challenges of making Stage 22, the show's iconic bar, appear authentic:

• Screwing Incident: Josh narrates an incident where a screw was sticking out of a door, causing cast members to injure their thumbs: “[32:52] Josh Radner: There was a screw sticking out of the door, and everyone kept nicking their thumbs. We had to keep screwing it in.”

• Steve Olson's Contribution: They give a shout-out to Steve Olson, the Emmy-winning set designer, highlighting his deep connection with New York and his influence on Stage 22's authentic feel: “[33:04] Josh Radner: Steve knew exactly what we were talking about, having lived near the Late Show with David Letterman studio.”

These anecdotes provide a glimpse into the meticulous attention to detail that went into creating the show's beloved settings.

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Conclusion and Community Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, Josh and Craig encourage listeners to continue engaging with the podcast by submitting questions and sharing their stories. They emphasize the importance of community and the shared love for HIMYM that binds them with their audience.

Josh humorously concludes with a teaser about his upcoming tour, blending personal updates with the show's overarching themes of change and movement: “[30:56] Josh Radner: Change is a constant force, resisting it but also embracing it because it will always win.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of How We Made Your Mother masterfully combines fan interactions, behind-the-scenes insights, and personal reflections to explore the enduring legacy of How I Met Your Mother. Through engaging storytelling and heartfelt conversations, Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas offer listeners a deeper appreciation of the show's impact on both its creators and its dedicated fanbase.

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Notable Quotes:

• “[02:13] Brian4Ugo: How I Met Your Mother changed my life and has supported me through the toughest times.”

• “[07:42] Craig Thomas: They're amazingly talented people who wanted to prove themselves.”

• “[16:53] Anna: It was one of the strangest final scenes, but it got the most laughs.”

• “[30:28] Josh Radner: Us together felt like home.”

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Stay Connected:

To join the conversation or share your own stories, visit howwemadeyourmother.com and follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your preferred podcast platform. Engage with Josh and Craig on social media and become part of the vibrant HIMYM community.

Transcript

[Josh Radner]

Foreign. Hello, and welcome to a bonus episode of how we made your Mother. These are the episodes that we call General questions.

[Craig Thomas]

General questions.

[Josh Radner]

It's getting better.

[Craig Thomas]

Never links up.

[Josh Radner]

No, I think it's getting better.

[Craig Thomas]

It's getting better.

[Alec Lev]

It's the Internet that messes us up. We're good. It's technology.

[Josh Radner]

If we were in the same room together, we would never, never miss these. We're answering questions today about episode eight from season one of How I Met yout Mother. The episode called the Duel. Just a quick refresher. It's when there's three plot lines. It's. Lily's apartment has been turned into a Chinese restaurant in Queens. Ted and Marshall have a sword fight to determine who gets the apartment after Marshall and Lily get married. And Barney does his best to start a thing called the Lemon Law, which is within the first five minutes of a date. If you don't want to carry on with it, you just call Lemon Law and everyone's free to go. Is that right, Craig?

[Craig Thomas]

That's right. Well done. Very succinct.

[Josh Radner]

So the episode aired a couple days ago or. Or was posted a couple days ago. So you can listen to that and then come back for our general questions. General questions. I think it's you, Alec, that's messing this up.

[Alec Lev]

Definitely not.

[Josh Radner]

No, no. The inventor of the game can't even.

[Alec Lev]

Can't.

[Josh Radner]

Alec invented this.

[Craig Thomas]

Alec invented this. I stole this from Alec unabashedly.

[Alec Lev]

I'm going to edit it so that it seems like I.

[Craig Thomas]

Then you're the best. I'm not sure how you can achieve that, but. Okay, you'll add some other people that are doing it right with you.

[Josh Radner]

So what do we got, Alec? What did people want to know about this episode?

[Alec Lev]

We got a bunch of questions here. We have some audio I'm going to play for you. It's very exciting. Just about the Duel, I think you guys are going to love this, but I'm going to read this one note here from Instagram because, Josh, early on you had talked about the idea of this show being a dialogue with us and the fans. With you and the fans. And I want to make that so where we got a question from a fan. We responded to it, then they responded to our response to it. And I'm like to you. And then if you like, you could just talk to them too. And you can just make it for this.

[Craig Thomas]

All right, so our inaugural follow up question.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

So not even a question. Just really lovely. Brian for you go says Brian for you go ask the question. About the old websites. All the websites that were on the show that used to. We used to buy the URLs and used to make the fake websites. Now they're gone. But one piece of information we. We have. We've. We've gotten a few of them back. We are now the owners of a few of them. And we'll. We'll get to that another time. But. Brian4Ugo says, I just want to say thank you so much for using and going above and beyond answering my question about the websites. I never expected you to choose it, much less go as far back as you will to try to bring them back. That would be so, so legendary. I still can't believe my question made to your episode. You're all so amazing and never cease to bring joy to me and so many others. I left a comment on YouTube as well, but I want to express how unbelievably honored and shocked I was when Alex said my name. I may or may not have cried just a little. These podcast episodes have been the highlight of my week, and I cannot be happier about them and the love you guys are spreading. I know you've heard it over and over by now, but it doesn't make it any less true that how I met your mother changed my life and has supported me through the toughest times. I couldn't even begin to express my excitement and gratitude for everything you're doing and. And will be doing. Thank you so much. Sending so much love from my dad and me in Florida.

[Josh Radner]

I mean, this guy's basically a co host at this point. We've read so many.

[Alec Lev]

I don't need to be here anymore. This is great.

[Josh Radner]

So many letters from him.

[Alec Lev]

It's great.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

This is a conversation, right? This whole thing's a conversation. That's the best part of this. It's. We love that part of this. So thank you.

[Josh Radner]

Craig, what were some of the. Well, Alec, you might know too. I remember Barney Stinson is a jerk. Dot com, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Ted Mosby is a jerk.

[Josh Radner]

Oh, no, it's Ted Mosby is a jerk.

[Craig Thomas]

You're not getting out of this one.

[Josh Radner]

Ted Mosby is a jerk.

[Craig Thomas]

There were a lot. There were a lot.

[Alec Lev]

I got him. You ready?

[Josh Radner]

Did you do a rate my teacher for Ted? Like, didn't he have, I think we obsessed with his ratings?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, Yeah, I think we did that.

[Alec Lev]

I got it for you. You ready? Barney's blog. Ted mosbyisajerk.com Ted Mosby is not a jerk dot com.

[Josh Radner]

I started that one.

[Alec Lev]

Lillian Marsh sell their stuff dot com Canadian sex acts dot org not a Father's Day dot com stint pressed reduction dot com it was the best night ever. Dot com puzzles the bar Goliath Bank Marshall and Lily's party. They miss their friends. Mysterious Dr. X Barney's video resume. Big Business Journal.com Lorenzo Matter Lorenzo von Matterhorn.com Wedding Bride movie grade My Teacher Linsen Breast Lawsuit. The Slap Bet Countdown Lillian Labor. Hey nanny, Nanny. Bro Bribs and Dude Aprons.

[Craig Thomas]

Bro Bibs. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so there's a lot is the plan.

[Josh Radner]

What was fun?

[Craig Thomas]

We did not hold on to them all.

[Josh Radner]

What was fun? And again, you guys created something outside of the confines of the 2224 minute episodes where people could go to another source and. Yeah, and it really rewarded your your go get them. You know, the fact that you would actually go to the site. Not that it's hard to look up a website, but it was, it was a bit newer of a treasure hunt back then.

[Craig Thomas]

It was in 2005. 2006. Yeah. Like, it was, it was. And it was like this secret handshake to the fans and be like, if you're, if you're clever enough to go look at this, we will give you more content. There will be sort of more show there for you. There will be more of this universe there for you. And it just creates that feeling, even though you know it's not a documentary, that somehow the world of the show is real or extends beyond like cbs.

[Josh Radner]

You're a part of it forever. You're a part of it. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

That's what we loved about it. And Barney's blog was every week. The amazing writers, distance and script coordinators aren't how much mother would write these great Barney blog entries and did for years and years and years. And you can look, I think all of them up. Do we still have that one, Alec? Is that one still up explicitly or has it been recapitulated? You can find those entries somehow. I know that I don't remember if it's like literally still up in the way that it was, but they did brilliant writing on that, Craig.

[Josh Radner]

That's also like such a great avenue. Like a lot of writers, assistants and script coordinators are just compile. They're taking notes and compiling scripts. And there's a lot of kind of like grunt work, like new higher grunt work in it. But to actually hand them like a comedic piece and let them own their comedic voice, that's awesome that you get.

[Craig Thomas]

Not only that, not only that, it became like an Audition to become a writer on How I Met yout Mother. Because these wonderful, very talented, young, scrappy and hungry writer assistant script coordinators would take that assignment and say, I'm gonna prove myself kind of with this and write this great material. And a lot of them got promoted to become writers on the show. Some of them stayed, like Matt Kuhn, who was writing those types of things for, like, Barney's blog and different things. He graduated into being a many seasoned writer for Amateur Mother. Fantastic dude. Fantastic writer all the way up to Co ep, I think at the end.

[Josh Radner]

And along the way wrote the Playbook and the.

[Craig Thomas]

He wrote. Yeah. He wrote Bro. The Bro Code book. Bro on the Go, the Playbook. He wrote all those books that all began by a writer's assistant being, like, putting up a saying. Like, I'll write some funny Barney blog entries. And just the episode would spark some idea. They would write it. We'd give us some notes or a little bit of feedback. But mostly it was just like amazingly talented people who wanted to prove themselves.

[Josh Radner]

And it's almost like comedy writers, but really all writers on TV shows. Or you're almost like an impressionist, like, like, like rich little or something. But you're doing the voice of Barney. Like, can you inhabit the consciousness of this psycho guy?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, inhabit it and. And expand it in your own way too. That's. But that's the best.

[Josh Radner]

And be in on the joke and have it be funny and knowing and winking and like, there. It's a. It's a. It's a deep assignment, actually, to write that kind of way.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alec Lev]

Well.

[Craig Thomas]

And who more qualified than the writer's assistant that's hearing everything, the creation of the show every day? And it's really. I'm very proud of how amazing our writer assistants and script coordinators were and rising through the ranks and being great writers on the show.

[Josh Radner]

Alec, what are the sites you've gotten back?

[Alec Lev]

I can tell you right now, we did get. We are now the owners of marshallandlilysparty.com they misstheirfriends.com and big businessjournal biz. I will unfortunately say that all of the others are owned by someone we don't know who we can't quite see registered. Who. Some of them are immediately for sale for three thousands and thousands of dollars.

[Josh Radner]

Wow.

[Alec Lev]

Others you can, like, pay a service to go figure it out. So, hey, if anyone knows anything, let us know. I will tell you.

[Josh Radner]

This is the central. This has now become the central mystery of this podcast. Who who is. Who owns and is extorting us for thousands of dollars to get these back? And. And can you much like donating a stolen Van Gogh to a museum. Can you please return. Ted Mosby is a jerk and Ted Mosby is not a jerk.

[Craig Thomas]

Barney Stinson's. Barney Stinson's breast reduction website is a Van Gogh. That's what we're saying. Precious Van Gogh.

[Josh Radner]

It's a timeless artifact.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a timeless artifact. Lorenzo Van Matterhorn. I mean it's. Come on. We can't. These can't be lost to the sands of time.

[Alec Lev]

Please write to us through the website. By the way, if you go to barneysblog.com I don't know. I guess that was the website barneysblog.com well it takes you to the CBS main page right now.

[Craig Thomas]

And that's it.

[Alec Lev]

It's not all up there learning all about NCIS origins.

[Craig Thomas]

This is the problem. It was through CBS at the time. But if CBS was sort of leasing How I Metro Mudra. Right. It was a different studio. The studio was what is now Disney and it was sort of 20th Disney. And CBS paid to air the show for those years. And then when it went off of there, CBS didn't own the show. And a lot of these websites or they spoil that one especially because it was through CBS kind of went bye by and that sucks. I wonder if we can somehow recapitulate all of those Barney's blogs and just at least get those up in the world on our own little proprietary website that we own and name because there's so much good writing in there done by years and years worth of amazing how much from other writers isn't script coordinator so.

[Josh Radner]

And you still have it all. You still have it all.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a great question. I think between all of us writers and all of the people that wrote them and Matt Kuhn and George Sloan and Jenny Hendricks and all of these really talented people that wrote them and worked on them, I feel like we could recapitulate it. Yeah. And I think a lot of them have been. I think fans have kept them alive on various sites too. So if anybody has compiled all of those and has them sitting around in convenient form, we welcome you sending it to us. And we are not going to pay you anything for it.

[Josh Radner]

Just gratitude.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, but our undying gratitude.

[Alec Lev]

And we'll mention your name somewhere. I mean if you're an extorter, maybe we won't. But if you just generously leave a package on our doorstep, if all you're extorting us for.

[Craig Thomas]

Is the name mentioned then? Yes, we'll do that. And then you'll successfully extort us.

[Josh Radner]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back.

[Craig Thomas]

We are gonna say goodbye to Josh for two weeks. We're saying goodbye to Josh for two weeks. And then I will say it's all for good reasons. Josh is going on tour in support of his amazing album and we will miss him for two weeks. We are hopefully ahead enough of the game with our podcast episodes that we can do this.

[Josh Radner]

The listeners of How We Made youe Mother will not miss me at all because we are not missing a week.

[Craig Thomas]

This is us pulling back the curtain.

[Josh Radner]

We have banked the episodes. We're gonna. Yeah. So I, I, so, so as I said to you, future Josh is already back from tour.

[Craig Thomas]

He's done with all this.

[Josh Radner]

He did it and it was a triumph.

[Craig Thomas]

How did it go, Future Josh?

[Josh Radner]

It was a triumph. Yeah. It just started in smaller venues, ended in arenas. That's what I'm putting out there. We just had to adjust and adapt to the, the insane demand. But past Josh, who's speaking right now, leaves in two days and is feeling a little sinus y.

[Craig Thomas]

A little. But a little excited. A little excited to go on tour and end a little sinus y all at the same time.

[Josh Radner]

I'm excited. Here's the thing. I love when I'm there. I love being on stage. I love the crowd. I love being able to share these songs. I really enjoy the experience of. I. It's so strange to me that I write and perform songs because I was not doing this when we were making How I Met your Mother. Like, this was not something I did.

[Craig Thomas]

Not play the guitar.

[Josh Radner]

No.

[Craig Thomas]

During How Much yout Mother. So amazing what you've done and picked.

[Josh Radner]

Up this skill and, and become a songwriter and, and I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not like, you know, 18, in a band, in a van, like with my buddies. Like I'm, you know, it's a, it's an adult tour in that I leave for two weeks, I come back for a couple days, I go out for another five days, I come back. So it's civilized.

[Craig Thomas]

But I was grown up, middle aged tour.

[Josh Radner]

But I'm definitely hitting the road and, and you know, I'm bringing T shirts and vinyl and you know, I don't have a, I don't have like a team. Like I'm just lugging this stuff. Actually. I shipped it to Seattle. I shipped it to Seattle. I'm picking it up in Seattle. And then I'm gonna drive partway with friends. And so it'll be, you know, it'll be fun, but I have anticipatory anxiety. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. Until you're there. You're not there until you're there.

[Josh Radner]

And then I'm not there till I'm there. And I get very nervous before I go places, and I get. And I think about what I need to do beforehand and what could go wrong, and then once I'm there, like I said, I'm a very adaptable creature. I actually like being in new towns. I like meeting new people. I like finding a good spot to have coffee and breakfast. Like, I like all that stuff. But my initial thought, not unlike Ted Mosby, is like, let's stay where we are and keep everything the same. But I think we have a natural human resistance to change. This is what we've been talking about on this show.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm the same way. I'm the same way. By the way, my son Elliot listens to podcasts and is just a huge fan of you in general. He's binging how much, Mother. He's listening to your music, Josh. I said, josh is going to go on tour for two weeks, and we're not in the podcast for a couple weeks. And he said. Elliot said, does Josh have an opening band? I said, I don't think so. But who. Who do you think should open for Josh? And he said, radiohead. I was like, yeah, Radiohead. I think Josh would accept that.

[Josh Radner]

That's unbelievable. But also, I thought he was going to pitch himself.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I know he could do it. He could.

[Josh Radner]

I thought he would go, yeah, I think Elliot Thomas should open for him.

[Craig Thomas]

I know he could totally do it.

[Josh Radner]

But also, like, that's an unbelievable idea. And Tom York did live. Yeah, he lived not far from me in Los Angeles. So I ran into him. I said, hey, you want to. I do have an opener. Her name is Ari Tippy. She's a good friend of mine.

[Craig Thomas]

Fantastic.

[Josh Radner]

And then on the east coast, it's this gal, Mikayla Ann, who's fantastic, who I've never met but is a great songwriter.

[Craig Thomas]

It sounds to me like you've planned out every part of this trip, Josh, except for one. Dun, dun, dunk.

[Alec Lev]

What do you mean?

[Josh Radner]

Now I'm going to lose sleep? That I haven't.

[Craig Thomas]

You've walked right into my trap. Josh, what are you doing with your Own place while you're on the road.

[Josh Radner]

Well, I'm not doing anything. I can't take it with me. I'm just gonna have it sit here.

[Craig Thomas]

Josh, Josh. Josh, we've really. I have amnesia.

[Josh Radner]

So condescending.

[Craig Thomas]

It's like the movie Memento. We have the conversation. It's just gone. You have to tattoo this on your body, Josh.

[Josh Radner]

Okay. Tell me. I'm not gonna forget this.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm from home.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

This time, this is gonna be the one. I can feel it. When you're on the road, you could be making some extra cash by hosting your place on Airbnb. Boom. Now I remember right into it yet again, Right? We've had this conversation multiple times. Here's the other thing I need to say about this. For anybody listening, don't make Josh's mistake. Even if you're on your music tour and super fun and Radiohead's opening for you, and Radiohead's opening for you every night, and it's the time of your life, don't still do something with your place back home. For all of you listening, if you have a trip coming up to or a tour, consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.

[Alec Lev]

Okay, I want to bend our rules again a little bit and play a lovely clip.

[Anna]

Hey, this is Anna from Chicago. I wanted to reach out about the duel. When I was in college, I was taking a stage combat class, and for our final scenes, we were doing sword fights. And all of the fights that everyone was choosing, they were all very serious scenes. And I somehow convinced my scene partner to do a scene from How I met your mother in the duel. And we did the fight between Ted and Marshall. And it might have been one of the strangest final scenes that my professor had ever seen, but I will tell you right now, it was one that definitely got the most laughs, and we had a great time. So this episode means a lot to me.

[Josh Radner]

That's awesome. You know, it's funny.

[Craig Thomas]

If you ever have dreamed this, we're going to become.

[Josh Radner]

Well, we had to take. We took stage combat at nyu. Like, you know, fists and swords and. Yeah, with. With J. Steven White, a great combat choreographer. And so I really did. I did have some training. I mean, here's the decision I made as an actor. I didn't think Ted had any training in swords. Josh Radner had training in swords. I did it more like kids playing, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And you Know when you're playing and you. You're 10 years old, but you're like, oh, that was an awesome move. You know, it probably doesn't look awesome. It feels awesome. It feels like you're really doing something. I just thought it was such a great way to show ostensibly grown men still have the ability to play.

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Josh Radner]

Like, genuinely play in, like, a silly, silly way.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a very sweet observation. That's why that episode's so great, because those two best friends are fighting and then can't help but play together in the middle of the fight.

[Josh Radner]

There's something great about that. Well, they play. You see. You see them playing video games together.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

See, that's what it is. They're trapped, like, between mortgages and leases and impending marriage and things changing, but there's still this, like, you know, I challenge you to a duel kind of energy to them. It's, you know, it's funny. I. I think you could make the case. On every comedy, there's an aspect of it that is about arrested, you know, development. Like. Like. And sometimes it's directly, literally titled show. Especially that. So. But they're. They're. It's fun to watch. There's something catheter. Cathartic, I think, to watch people behave in a way they're supposed to have grown out of.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. Because that's the reality of adulthood. That's the dirty secret. Right. I think I'm stealing your lamb. That's the dirty secret of adulthood. I think Josh wrote this in a movie. No one. Yeah, that's it. Right. Like, I'm curious how. How choreographed was that fight? Because I don't remember. I'm sure someone is going to. I just stole someone's question. But, like, were you and Jason, like, move to move? So was it. Did it have to be choreographed, like, for safety reasons? Like, they didn't want you going too off book and, like, slamming somebody in the ey.

[Josh Radner]

I don't know. The joke about stage combat is people are like, just punch me. Like, you don't have to worry about it. Like, no, no, no. Just really hit me. It's like someone ends up in the hospital. It had to be choreographed. I mean, I think there were some moments that were just like, okay, let's just cross our swords, like, five times. Like, boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, but the stuff of, like, hitting and, you know, falling backwards and him getting on the table, all that was, like, really choreographed.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the moment where you fall back into the chair and you're like, he's okay. He's okay up on the table and the table breaking. I wish I've watched and I went, I wish Marshall was the one that glued the table together wrong rather than the fucking architect. Why did we throw the architect under the bus for the bad table assembly? I was like, that should have been Marshall.

[Josh Radner]

It should have been his karma.

[Craig Thomas]

I love his karma. But I love the flashback that informs why the table breaks. That whole sequence was a total delight, you guys, in that, the two of you.

[Josh Radner]

I always liked Ted had to do a number of, like, horrified looks where you don't show what happens. You just get what happens from Ted's horrified face.

[Craig Thomas]

There are a lot of those. Even in these first eight episodes. There's a couple of them. It's not just this one. Yeah. Lily getting run through with a sword is pretty great. Yeah. I love that duel. The duel between you guys. That is a moment when I think we as the writers went, like, we've got to get as much Josh and Jason together as we can.

[Josh Radner]

Well, there's also. It draws up the storyline of, like, Lily's the adult of the three.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

And she's the one who suffers the consequence of their, like, being idiots.

[Craig Thomas]

She's like, are you arguing the extent to which you stabbed me? And I love. You have a great moment where you're. Ted is. Ted is. Marshall says in the waiting room in the hospital. I can't believe I stabbed my fiance. And you have this amazing performance of a fine joke. But you made it great. That was essentially. Come on, Marshall. Do you really think she's still your fiance? It's such a great mislead. The way you played. It was so good. It was like I was. Rebecca and I were watching that. It was like a full laugh out. That was the loudest laugh of the entire episode, I think, was that joke in my living room.

[Alec Lev]

So the one take that a lot of people had on this episode was less about the friendship and the growing up and making the decisions between your friends. And then they get married and what changes. But about the notion of the apartment that is important to you, of the land, the place that means something to you because Lily goes through losing hers and now Ted or Marshall is potentially losing theirs. And so I'll just read a couple of questions on this topic. You can take it as you will. Nigel Leong 07 says at the start of the episode, Ted mentions how there's one apartment in particular that will always be theirs. So the question is, is there a building that you've spent time at that you would call your own, not including your house, obviously. Oh, that's interesting. And why. And then Kenny freaking Sage says, what were your first apartments like? Any momentos Like Sharkey or the swords that you've carried with you through the years? And finally, Liam Doyle, 44, says, Did Craig and Carter have something in their lives similar to the swords, where they were important mementos for their time in New York City. So a place or an object that were meaningful to you growing up or now?

[Craig Thomas]

It's a great question. Great questions. Plural.

[Josh Radner]

You know, this makes me think of. I've always been very sentimental about houses, Apartments. Like even if I'm. I remember when I, when I got How I Met yout Mother, I was subletting my friend Megan's apartment from college. It was 750amonth. It was a one bedroom like right. A block, you know, a couple blocks from Canter's Deli. Right. Like it was like right by LACMA and that whole area. It was a great place to live actually. I really love that apartment and my best friends lived across the street. So it was really felt like I had community and I had, and you know, we were going into season two and it was kind of like, I don't know that I need to. I can certainly afford a little more than a $750 worth apartment. But my friend David had just kind of like redone it for me while I was away one summer. And I came back and it was really spiffed up. But I bought this really lovely house about 1012 minutes away. And I remember being devastated that I had to leave this 750amonth apartment with yellow walls and my friend Megan had a swing in it. Like it was weird, it was a weird apartment. I think David took the swing down, but it was a weird apartment. But it was my apartment and I had a lot of great memories there. And I, I, I can weave myself into any place. Like I'm quite an adaptable creature.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

Like I'm selling my house in LA right now because I live in New York and I'm, I went through a real grieving process. I'm over it. But I went through a real grieving process when I realized I just wasn't going to have this house forever. I love this house. I love where it is. I love the hikes I go on when I walk out my front door. But I will say what I think is the root. This is really going back into the childhood. We lived in a little town called Berwick in Columbus, Ohio, until fourth grade when we moved to the house my parents still live in in Bexley. In fourth grade, I remember my dad, we were packing up the house in Berwick. My dad and my two sisters had gone on. They were gone. So it was my mom and I had the final push to get out of the house that locked the keys and the final pull away. And I wasn't feeling particularly emotional about this. I was just like, I know my family's coming with me. We get in the car, my mom closes the door, and she bursts into tears because it was like their first house, the house where her kids were born, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radner]

So she bursts into tears. And then because I am looking to my mom for cues and clues about how to behave, I burst into tears. So we're sitting in the front seat just weeping over this house, and I. I think that, like, I just in that moment learned, like, you're more in a house like, you get. You get sad a little bit and then you move on. But I do think there's something very special in particular about. I have a song, I'll send this to you on Eulogy Volume 2, called Real Good House, which is about the house. I left the 750amonth apartment to move into, and I lived there for 14 years and then moved to this other house. And I wrote a song called Real Good House that is like a love song to a house.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

If you want. If whoever listened to whoever wrote this song, go to Eulogy Volume 2. Josh Radner. Listen to Real Good House because it is literally a love song about real estate. This old house, this good old house, this loving mass of brick and stone. It's a love song about a house. And I think I'm really keyed into personally, just like loving spaces and feeling that there's something holy once you've inhabited a space for a while and had enough life happen in a space and. And woke up enough and gone to sleep enough in a space and felt the tides of life roll through a space enough. It's very hard to not associate yourself with that space. And it's very hard to not mourn that space when you leave it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. Well said. I mean, it's my meta answer to the question. To this question for me is I was just thinking about what stage 22 was to us all on. On the Fox lot where we shot nine seasons of How I Met yout Mother. And that feeling of when you. Not only is it leaving somewhere, but it's going, you're going. Someone else is going to come in here, there's going to be some other TV show that they'll be like, ah, that's Our stage. Stage 22. It's like, no, that's our stage. But that's, it's the circle of life. And it's the same thing with houses, right? I mean, these. Yeah, Carter and I had a couple of apartments in New York that were sort of like. We had this one on 75th street that was kind of what we imagined was the Marshall and Ted apartment in a way. Although it didn't bear tons of resemblance to it really in the design. It was kind of like that would have been it. And yeah, I remember letting go of that apartment to sort of go like I was getting married and Carter. But I wasn't leaving the apartment to get married or to move into an apartment with my wife yet. I wasn't, I hadn't, hadn't gotten there yet. But I remember the feeling of moving out from Carter. I had lived with Carter for a few years after college, writing for Letterman. And we're just these idiots in our 20s, me the bigger idiot, because Carter had provided, as I learned when I moved, the day I moved, moved downtown to the West Village, it was from the Upper west side to my own place in the West Village, the movers butt and everything. And that was only then that I realized how little furniture I had and how much of it had been Carter's. So that really didn't occur to me until we got there and I was like, oh, I don't have a couch. I guess I'll just sit in this one chair. And it was just one of those moments where I was like, God, I'm really immature. I'm really like a lot. I'm just a kid still in some way, I'm like, there's just no, there's no all that stuff. Where did that go? It was Carter's things and he took it to his new apartment. So he was clearly more together than I, than I was. And I had to quickly go out and buy all this furniture because I was like, oh, it just didn't magically appear here. But yeah, those places in your 20s, they have a kind of meaning and those, you know, you'll never live quite like that again. And yeah, I think that one on 75th street for Carter and I would be like the. That's the Marshall and Ted apartment.

[Josh Radner]

And also it occurs to me that in the grand, if you really zoom up and take in the grand perspective, like there's no such Thing as a home forever. Like a forever home. You know, they will, you know, they'll all go away. I mean, at some point, you're probably going to want to move into a home that doesn't have stairs. You know what I mean? Like, you've got to, you've got to adapt your, your notion of what home is like.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radner]

Like, I, I, I try not to talk too much about my relationship on here, but it comes up. But I had this feeling about Jordana when I was falling in love with her and that I was pretty sure we were gonna get married is she had this feeling that I knew wherever we went, it would feel like home. Like us together felt like home. Not the structure of wherever we were.

[Craig Thomas]

That's it. That's all home can ever be, I think, really. Right. And that needs to be a movable feast. To go all Hemingway about it. It needs to, it will have to travel.

[Josh Radner]

And you need sometimes, I mean, hopefully not for horrifying geopolitical reasons, but sometimes you got to pick up and go, you know, sometimes you gotta, like, it's where you get a job. Or like, we have to be adaptable enough. And again, this comes back to this notion of this is. We're kind of fusing the two great themes that we've talked about in the dual episodes. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

But like this notion of change being this constant force, resisting it, but also getting it will win. It will always win. And then this notion of home being not quite a permanent thing. Although, you know, one of the things that people always get upset about if you live in New York City and then you watch shows about New York City, that the apartments are too big for the income bracket of the people living in them.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

There's a Peter Hedges movie that our friend Katie Holmes starred in called Pieces of April, which, if you haven't seen that movie, is a fantastic movie.

[Craig Thomas]

I remember loving that movie.

[Josh Radner]

Patty Clarkson, Oliver Platt, John Gallagher, Alison Pill. Great movie. And she. And the apartment in there is like, I don't know how they filmed it. And the reason that you can't have super small apartments is because you can't fit a whole film.

[Craig Thomas]

It's really hard to shoot in.

[Josh Radner]

It's really hard to shoot. So. But that they made that apartment look very small and very appropriate. But there is something about this Upper west side apartment in 2005 that I do buy that through some real estate miracle. Stroke of luck, in New York City, they would have been able to get something. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

It's not completely implausible. And the Way we tended to it, too, it's a little bigger maybe than what they could have got. But we said to our wonderful set designer who won multiple Emmys, Steve Olson, we said, it's probably still going to be a little too big. Let's not make it crazy big. I know it has to be a little big to shoot in and for logistics, but let's scuff it up. Let's have the paint be not perfect and bright and amazing and not look like a set for a Hollywood show being shot in Los Angeles. About New York.

[Josh Radner]

You know, I remember. I don't remember what season it was, but I don't think this was a set design thing. But there was a screw that was sticking out of the door, and everyone kept, like, nicking their thumb on it. And we had to keep asking them to screw it in because everyone was getting injured on the outside because, you know, you bust in and out of those doors so fast.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really funny. I don't think I ever knew that detail.

[Josh Radner]

That's.

[Alec Lev]

I just want to say, by the way, that Steve Olsen is a listener to this show. He comments. He comments on Instagram.

[Craig Thomas]

The great Steve Olsen.

[Josh Radner]

I don't think it was Steve's fault. The. The screw on the door.

[Craig Thomas]

Steve is great. Steve lived in New York, and he really. He lived in New York for a lot of years, too. And he actually lived right next to the Late show with David Letterman studio, like the Ed Sullivan Theater. And when we said, we want to make McLaren's kind of like the bar McGee's. Have you been there? And he said, I've been there 10,000 times. I lived right around the corner from there. He was even featured on a Dave Letterman Meet the Neighbors segment. You know how Dave would just send his camera around. They knocked on Steve Olson's door, and Steve was on Late show with Dave Letterman, like, talking to Dave down in the studio on the camera. So when we said we were trying to hire a set designer, the fact that Steve knew the bar, he's like, yep. The murals, the red boots, I know exactly what you're talking about. So it was like kind of one of those destiny moments when we met Steve. So shout out to Steve Olson and. Yeah, one of the many amazing people that came to create the universe of Himyum.

[Alec Lev]

All right, well, thank you all so much. Again, great questions everywhere. Send them to YouTube and Instagram and on our website, How We Made youe Mother Contact. And. And we'll. We'll see you next time.

[Josh Radner]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse letters on Substack, read Craig Thomas published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My Dead Father Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference. This show's on ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing provided by Tink Media. People will in fact dance the real.

[Josh Radner]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?