How Barney Became Best Man | S2E19 "Bachelor Party"

Summary

Podcast Summary: How Barney Became Best Man | "How We Made Your Mother" S2E19 "Bachelor Party"

Podcast: How We Made Your Mother
Hosts: Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas
Episode: How Barney Became Best Man | S2E19 "Bachelor Party"
Date: March 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into "Bachelor Party," the 19th episode of How I Met Your Mother’s second season. Hosts Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby) and series co-creator Craig Thomas revisit the writing, production, and lasting impacts of this episode, focusing on themes of friendship, bachelor/bachelorette party tropes, and how the show's characters—and the sitcom itself—have affected fans’ lives around the world. The conversation includes analysis of the episode's structure, character moments, behind-the-scenes insights, and heartfelt fan letters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fan Impact – Healing Through Representation

[01:31] The episode opens with Robin, a listener from Switzerland, sharing how seeing her "unusual" name on a beloved TV character helped her overcome childhood teasing and develop pride in her identity.

• Quote:
  "It was such a healing experience for me because not only did I see my name represented on screen, it was the name of the woman I personally thought was, like, the coolest character on the show." – Robin (01:45)

• Both hosts (Josh and Craig) express how moving it is for the show to have such a personal, unintended positive effect.

  Craig Thomas [03:29]: "Are you, like, weirdly moved by that?"
  Josh Radnor [03:31]: "Oh, incredibly moved... Out of all the things you think you're doing when you're making a TV show… We were not thinking that we were helping a teenage girl in Switzerland adjust to and love her name."

2. Names & Identity (Lighthearted Banter)

[03:55 – 06:19]
A humorous detour about the confusion between names—Craig/Greg and Josh/Zach—and how these misunderstandings can stick, both personally and in pop culture.

• Josh Radnor [05:38]: "The weirdest thing for me, though, my name is Josh and people call me Ted."
• Craig Thomas [05:42]: "That's so fucking weird."

3. The Writing & Structure of "Bachelor Party"

[10:02 – 11:54]
Craig and Josh outline the episode’s dual narrative, balancing Marshall’s bachelor party with Lily’s awkward bachelorette event. They touch on how actresses' comedic timing (notably Cobie Smulders’ wordless reactions) elevate already-funny script material.

• Craig Thomas [10:05]: "It’s what I would call a classic sort of two-handed, intercut episode… You get to pop back and forth a lot."

4. Expanding (and Contracting) the Friend Universe

[11:04 – 11:54]
The hosts joke about the show’s tight central cast, reflecting on the awkwardness of suddenly introducing "fourth-tier" friends for plot reasons.

• Craig Thomas [11:35]: "That's why I put all my friends under contract. I just want a tight five and that's it."

5. Exploring Marriage Clichés

[15:25 – 16:32]
There’s a candid discussion about “cartoonish” bachelor/bachelorette party traditions, poking fun at tropes like “dead man walking” and the cliché of men "losing freedom" after marriage.

• Josh Radnor [16:27]: "Happy spouse, happy house."
• Craig Thomas [16:28]: "T-shirt alert!"

Host Reflection:

• Josh shares that he married late and always disliked the “happy wife, happy life” phrase, opting for a more egalitarian spin.

6. Real-Life Party Anecdotes & the Awkwardness of Bachelor Parties

[19:33 – 20:47]
The group recalls their own uncomfortable bachelor party experiences, acknowledging that societal expectations rarely live up to reality.

• Craig Thomas [19:33]: "Now you're just in a hotel room and there's a stripper... and everyone there is uncomfortable… It’s just awkward… It’s not great."
• Josh describes his own low-key, blissful bachelor party alternative:

  Josh Radnor [20:22]: "We sat around in absolute bliss. And I thought that was for hours and hours and hours. Oh, it was the best."

7. PG Show, Adult Jokes

[21:05 – 22:00]
The show often tried to "wink" at X-rated material within the confines of network standards, making for comedically awkward strip club scenes.

• Josh Radnor [21:24]: "You were trying to wink towards X-rated stuff on a PG show… The strippers were always very clothed."

8. Sitcom Tropes, Real Experiences

[23:15 – 24:32]
Craig reveals that the episode’s storyline of misreading a party’s tone (i.e., bachelorette gift mishap) was inspired by real events in the writers’ room.

9. Comedy Craft: The Art of the Running Gag

[27:19 – 28:31]
The hosts analyze the comedic impact of letting a joke (like Grandma Lois’ long speech about the "heirloom") run long past its "natural" endpoint—an homage to classic comedy timing.

• Josh Radnor [27:19]: "Sometimes there’s jokes that you let go three times longer than you think they should go."
• Craig Thomas [28:10]: "It stops being funny, and then it starts being even funnier than it ever was... It's the rakes in Sideshow Bob."

10. Writers’ Room Insights

[29:31 – 30:42]
Comedy writing is dissected, specifically the brainstorming session for lines that could mean both "dildo" and "sewing machine." The hosts also joke about the stress and competition of pitching in a writers’ room.

• Craig Thomas [29:31]: "You have six to eight brilliant minds working on that like it’s fucking NASA…"

11. Telepathy Bit & Acting Praise

[31:36 – 32:26]
Special praise for Cobie Smulders and Alyson Hannigan’s "telepathy" acting during the bachelorette scene and for the direction that made it extra memorable.

12. Pop Culture References & Timelessness

[32:31 – 34:10]
The hosts laugh about now-dated references in the episode (e.g., "Every Which Way But Loose") and how pop culture cycles quickly, requiring footnotes for newer viewers.

• Josh Radnor [32:45]: "It really does... you understand how Shakespeare... needs massive amounts of footnotes."

13. The Episode's Emotional Core: How Barney Becomes Best Man

[37:14 – 41:44]
Craig explains that the true heart of the episode—the twist that Barney flew to San Francisco to get Lily back—allowed them to make Barney as outrageous as needed, because his “redemption” would balance everything.

• Craig Thomas [38:32]: "...knowing that we had this knockout punch... of redemption for Barney at the end, knowing that we could pay that all the way back, it kind of posthumously redeems Barney in 'Scorpion and the Toad.'"

• Josh Radnor [39:18]: "There's something so great about it, especially when the network was like, standalone, standalone, standalone. And you're like, no, this is a serialized thing."

Key Quote:

Craig Thomas [41:23]: "The end of this episode is really Barney... It’s like Christmas morning for him—when you go, 'Barney, really? I get to be co-best man?' You need those glimpses into who he is, deeper beneath the suit."

14. The Evolving Moral Arc of Barney

[41:44 – 44:10]
Josh and Craig discuss how Barney’s character, while outwardly cynical, is revealed to be a "wounded idealist" who slowly relearns empathy, love, and friendship over the series.

• Josh Radnor [41:44]: "He learns like, oh my God, I did a really good thing for my friends... There’s a different moral calculus that goes on for him as he gets older and wiser."

15. Creating Meaningful, Legendary Moments

[44:01 – 44:38]
Barney's need to create "stories worth telling"—often outrageous—explains why he pushes group boundaries but also why his friendships endure and deepen through shared experience.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Healing Through Pop Culture:

  "We were not thinking that we were helping a teenage girl in Switzerland adjust to and love her name." — Josh Radnor [03:34]

• On Marriage Tropes:

  "Happy spouse, happy house." — Josh Radnor [16:27]

• On Barney’s Redemption:

  "He is the reason there’s a wedding, right? And once we knew we had that idea... that grounded the entire episode." — Craig Thomas [38:32]

• On the Writers' Room:

  "You have... brilliant minds working on that like it’s fucking NASA... What is the Venn diagram overlap of a dildo and a sewing machine?" — Craig Thomas [29:31]

• On Committed Friendships:

  "He wants to be important to these guys. He wants these guys to give him some relevancy. And he earns it." — Craig Thomas [40:27]

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Fan Interludes & Letters

1. Robin from Switzerland [01:31]

How the character Robin gave her pride in her name.

2. Noah Garrison, Real-Life Marshall Inspiration [45:41]

Noah, a college friend and background extra, shares how Marshall’s "law student" plotline was drawn from his life, and how he missed out on rockstar memories to fulfill law school obligations—just like Marshall does in the show.

3. Abhishek from India [50:34]

Touching letter about HIMYM getting him through challenging college years, paralleling the show's themes of destiny and the “butterfly effect” in life choices.

Abhishek: "I've started appreciating that time because I've realized now that I was supposed to be there. I realized precisely what the show was trying to say when Ted said that you end up exactly where you're supposed to be, exactly when you're supposed to be there." (52:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:31] Robin’s letter: Impact of character names on real-life identity
• [10:02] Breakdown of intercut bachelor/bachelorette party structure
• [15:25] Marriage and bachelor party clichés
• [19:33] Awkward real-life bachelor party stories
• [23:15] The bachelorette scene inspired by true events
• [27:19] Comedy theory: letting a joke run long for more laughs
• [31:36] Praise for the bachelorette party "telepathy" scene
• [37:14] The heart of the episode: Barney's redemption and becoming co-best man
• [41:44] The wounded idealist—Barney’s evolving morality
• [45:41] Noah Garrison’s cameo and its connection to Marshall’s story
• [50:34] Abhishek’s letter: HIMYM as a guide through hard times

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode is filled with signature HIMYM warmth and humor—bouncing between nostalgia, self-effacing industry anecdotes, and deep affection for both the creative process and the fans whose lives the show has touched. The hosts’ easy banter and willingness to poke fun at themselves, as well as their sincerity in discussing the show’s emotional moments, give the podcast the same heartfelt, comedic energy as the series itself.

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Final Thoughts

This podcast episode is not just a behind-the-scenes look at an iconic HIMYM installment; it’s a meditation on the enduring power of found-family sitcoms, the real-life origins of TV moments, and how art can unexpectedly shape and heal lives. As with the series, the message is clear: the journey matters—and the best stories come from sharing it with people you love, chaos and all.

Transcript

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Robin (Listener or Guest)]

My name is Robin. I'm from Switzerland and growing up in Switzerland, Robin was not a common name for girls. And as a kid that was really hard because Robin was strictly seen as a boy's name and kids can be brutal as we all know. So I was teased a lot in school and it really got to the point where I genuinely started to hate my own name and I was so determined to change it once I turned 18. And I was also angry at my parents for giving me a boy's name in the first place. Place. So yeah, it was quite a lot. But then something unexpected happened around 2010. How Met yout Mother really blew up in Switzerland, or at least at my school. And everyone was watching it. Like the cool kids were watching it, the people who wanted to be cool. And everyone knew the jokes and the references and everything. And yeah, suddenly my name wasn't something people laughed at anymore. It became cool. It became really cool and fun. For the first time in my life I almost felt like people were jealous that I had this cool international name that was the same name as one of the characters on the show. And yeah, when I then started watching the show myself it was such a healing experience for me because not only did I see my name represented on screen, it was the name of the woman I personally thought was, like, the coolest character on the show. And so, yeah, I will always be grateful to How Met yout Mother, and especially Robin Shabatsky for helping me turn something I once hated, something I now am truly proud of. So thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Well, Craig, what a great. What a great letter to start with.

[Craig Thomas]

Are you, like, weirdly moved by that?

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, incredibly moved by.

[Craig Thomas]

I find that so moving for some reason.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Out of all the things you think you're doing when you're making a TV show. And we thought we were doing some things right. We were not thinking that we were helping a teenage girl in Switzerland adjust to and love her name. We were not thinking that that was

[Craig Thomas]

outside the top 10 things we thought we were doing. It was just. It was number. It was almost in the top 10.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

That's extraordinary. Thank you for that. I'm so. It just blows my mind. It blows my mind because your name is a big deal. What you feel about your name is a big deal. And the idea that this sort of arrived, the show arrived to her at the exact right moment.

[Josh Radnor]

It's the moment she needed it.

[Craig Thomas]

She needed it.

[Josh Radnor]

Female Robin showed up right when she

[Craig Thomas]

needed it, right when she needed it and made it cool. That's the best story. I've never heard exactly that story about Hyunyim in 20, 20 years.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, it does feel. If you get a kind of strange name as a kid, it's hard. But as an adult, it's cool, right? You just have to weather those years. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

You have to weather those years. Yeah. But there is something you're sent like, I didn't and sort of still don't like the name Greg. It's definitely hard. Always someone, every moment of your life, someone going, Greg. Now I'm the B team version of that name. It's actually Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Why do you think Craig is the bee?

[Craig Thomas]

I just. Because everybody says Greg and they have to go to now Craig. And I've met other Craigs and they're like, yeah, fuck.

[Josh Radnor]

I was told. I was told by my friend Zach that guys named Zach get mistakenly called Josh all the time. And I thought this was so strange because they don't even sound like the same name.

[Craig Thomas]

They don't share letters.

[Josh Radnor]

I looked it Up. There's a huge Reddit thread about it. Like any other Zacks out there, getting called Josh all the time.

[Craig Thomas]

Alec has a son named Zach. You have to ask your son Zach. Text him right now. Has it ever happened to your son?

[Josh Radnor]

I will ask him.

[Alec Lev]

I, of course, get.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, as Alec and Alex. It's the same. You are the Craig of Al. To Alec, Craig, Greg and Alec, Alex.

[Josh Radnor]

The weirdest thing for me, though, my name is Josh and people call me Ted.

[Craig Thomas]

That's so fucking weird.

[Josh Radnor]

It's crazy. Welcome to how we made your mother. We haven't even said that.

[Craig Thomas]

You had the opposite experience of our. Of our Swiss friends.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

Ted ruined your life with an itch.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm Josh Radner. I played Ted Mosey on a TV show called How I Met yout Mother, which ran on CBS from 2005 to 2014. I'm with my good friend Craig Thomas, who co created the show with Carter Bayes. Hi, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Greg Thomas.

[Josh Radnor]

Greg Thomas. Wait, I'm sorry, I never got. Is it Greg or Craig?

[Craig Thomas]

You've been saying it wrong this whole time.

[Josh Radnor]

Craig Maylands and Greg Thomas.

[Craig Thomas]

Zach Radner.

[Josh Radnor]

Zach Radner. We are barreling through season two. Thanks for joining us. We're having such a good time going through these episodes which we haven't seen for quite a while. Today's episode is called Bachelor Party. When did this episode air? I imagine 19 years ago.

[Alec Lev]

Alec, I'm going to tell you, but first I'm going to tell you that my son just texted me and said, yes, people do call me Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

Why do you. Oh, my God. So that's. That's really a thing. That is actually a thing. And you've never talked to your son Zach about this until this moment? All right?

[Alec Lev]

Never.

[Noah Garrison]

Never.

[Josh Radnor]

I wonder if it's like a little. It's a thing in our brain that's like a. A weird human dyslexic thing. Like, I don't know what. What is going on with Josh and Zach, but maybe it's like something there.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's one syllable. It's. It's.

[Josh Radnor]

They both end in H. I don't. I don't know.

[Craig Thomas]

They sometimes end in H, but there's a K. Oh, there's a K. Of course.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And, yeah, there's something.

[Josh Radnor]

So this episode is called Bachelor Party. Who wrote this episode?

[Alec Lev]

Yes, Greg Thomas and Cliff Bayes wrote this. It aired, by the way, I want to point out on what's for April. April 9, 2007, which means three weeks after episode 18, Craig There was a three week.

[Craig Thomas]

That is a big gap. You know what that was? Let me see and think of what that was. March Madness on cbs. I bet that's what that was. I bet there was a bunch of. And we got preempted on Monday nights. That's my.

[Josh Radnor]

Did you do like some special tailored March Madness promos?

[Craig Thomas]

We did. Yeah. We'd have to shoot March Madness promos. We did March Madness themed episodes sometimes, but often we'd also get preempted. Or maybe it was just rerun nights. But yeah. And March was a bit of a dead zone. Three weeks is a long time. That is a while between.

[Josh Radnor]

But I do remember, like my basketball loving friends saying, seeing a lot of your commercials.

[Craig Thomas]

We had to embrace NCAA basketball as a show in a huge way that was beyond Carter. And I don't give a fuck about ncaa. Sorry, everybody. I tell you, the NCAA fans, we don't really care about it. And we. But we were forced to embrace it as this sort of like corporate synergy strategy. So we. So we did. And we got that great bracket episode out of it. So I don't regret it.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, bracket's great episode.

[Craig Thomas]

It was definitely not our natural setting to get obsessed about ncaa.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. So this aired. Yeah. Three week break. And you guys wrote this.

[Craig Thomas]

You and me, we wrote Carter, Connor and I wrote it. I sort of forgot that was true until about halfway through the. It's such a weird thing 19 years later because we. We got our hands on a lot of these episodes. A lot of these episodes. Like sometimes we take one and put sort of. It would go through our computer before we bring it into the room. And it's. It's very. I've really forgotten some of them that we technically started off ourselves, but. Yeah, but it's a. It was a delay. This is a very fun one. I think Carter probably took the first run at this one, so it's maybe a little more. A little more Carter Bayes than me. This one.

[Josh Radnor]

That's sicko.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I know what is sicko. But it's a great one. I do wish. I regret the title because there was a popular 80s movie. While we're talking about names. Zach's and Josh's and Craig's and Alex's bachelor party. I always remember thinking we should have come up with a better name than the Tom Hanks 80s movie. Like, I don't like. You gotta vary it.

[Noah Garrison]

I don't.

[Craig Thomas]

Somehow we. I think.

[Josh Radnor]

What about that episode in season five, Splash? You guys should have done a better one.

[Craig Thomas]

Than that Saving Private Ryan in season six was really. We really could have avoided that. No bachelor party. It always bothered me a little bit. But I bet we tried and we just went, fuck it. We're going to be calling this bachelor, but this is the bachelor party of us. It's Marshall's bachelor party. So we just decided to own it. I don't know.

[Josh Radnor]

You could have put a the in front of it.

[Craig Thomas]

I know something, just some. Any variation. But here we are and it's a good one. It's a fun episode.

[Josh Radnor]

So just talk us through a little bit what happens in this episode.

[Craig Thomas]

This is what I would call a classic sort of two handed intercut episode. Here's what the ladies are doing for the bachelorette party. And here's what the guys are doing for the bachelor party. And here's. And they kind of come together at the end and intersect and it's a fun structure. You get to pop back and forth a lot. Yeah. It's just the ladies are on a track and the guys are on a track and we see Marshall's bachelor party and we see Lily's incredibly awkward and very funny bachelorette gathering. That Robin has entirely the wrong idea of what the tone is gonna be at that party. And it leads to. It's so funny that I loved so much rewatching it. Hadn't watched it in 19 years that my wife and I were laughing so hard. We just rewound and watched that whole sequence a second time last night. It was really Robin's reactions that should be studied by. In acting classes. What Kobe is doing over the shoulder of Grandma Lois. We'll get there. I'm jumping way ahead of you. There is some reaction, some wordless reaction shot acting that deserved awards recognition in this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

And Grandma Lois too. I mean she's great. Unbelievable. We'll talk about her because I had mentioned that actress Kay Callan. Kay Callan, you know, a while back. But I did want to say one thing that's funny is because this gang is so kind of tightly knit. There's. They don't have a lot of other friends. You know, I mean some of that is the dictates of like we were under contract. There's only five of us. There's only, you know, you don't want to have too big a universe. You want to keep.

[Craig Thomas]

That's why I put all my friends under contract. Yeah. I just. I want a tight five and that's it. Yeah. I lock them in for 10 years.

[Josh Radnor]

And it's so funny when you have to expand that universe and you're suddenly like, these are like fourth tier friends. It's like Marshall, Barney, Ted and Stuart

[Craig Thomas]

who pops up and Brad Marshall's two other best friends in the world. It's the same thing where Stuart's wife Claudia goes to Lily in her moment of need in season one where like, is Lily her best friend is Lily's other best friend Claudia.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. If these people are close in their lives, they sure don't talk about them.

[Craig Thomas]

They really don't talk about.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, it's so funny.

[Josh Radnor]

Matt Boran. So funny this episode.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Shout out to Matt.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, hilarious. We should have him on here.

[Josh Radnor]

The guy who always does the cliches, you know, Dead man Walking,

[Craig Thomas]

he does so many of them and they get sadder and sadder. And then when Marshall's funny, like, are things okay at home? Stewart, he's just like, no.

[Josh Radnor]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

Tap the banner to learn more. And now back to the show. Matt Boren has a Like, sad clown face. He does. Like, it's a funny, open and inviting and clown face. You like him immediately, but there's a core sadness at the heart.

[Craig Thomas]

He's so funny. He's a very funny actor. He's got this deadpan quality, almost like a silent movie. Kind of like a Buster Keaton now is like one of the world's greatest Buster Keaton aficionados. Like, Matt has one of those faces that's just so deadpan. He's a very successful author now. We just reconnected actually, because I wrote a book and he. I think we're gonna hang out in here. He's in New York. We should have had. He should be here right now. But hopefully we can bring him back. I think he appears again.

[Josh Radnor]

But yeah, he's a great. Kind of in the constellation of how I met your mother guest stars. He's an all timer for me. Like, I.

[Craig Thomas]

He's very funny.

[Josh Radnor]

He was always funny. The Stuart and Claudia stuff was always funny. It's a. Well, you guys could have gone back to.

[Craig Thomas]

I know. I sort of wish we did. I regret that we did it a few more times because he really had something. He had something unique going on.

[Josh Radnor]

And you know, it really. I know it was funny, the cliches, but. But when you're about to get married or in the world of marriage, there is this cliche of like handing your balls at the door. You know, I was all. I mean, I got married later in life. But those comments never helped. You know what I mean? No, not at all. And like, you know that. I mean, I saw this at a wedding in my 20s where the sister of the bride, you know, says, you know, to the groom, put your. Put your hand on top of my sister's hand. And it says, that is the last time you will have the upper hand in this marriage.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, boy.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, and I've seen that done numerous times. Like there's a. There's a feeling of. And. And even my. My wife and I have a joke. Like, I always hated the phrase happy wife, happy life because I was like, you know what? I'd like to be happy. So we rewrote it when. And anyone can take this, but we say, happy spouse, happy house.

[Craig Thomas]

Nicely done.

[Josh Radnor]

I think it should be more egalitarian. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

That's good. T shirts. T shirt alert.

[Josh Radnor]

Happy spouse, happy house. But. But there is something. I was. I was at a wedding like last year where the kind of men, you know, siloed off before this and the women went in another place and you know, all the old uncles were just shouting out all this bs.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh yeah, oh yeah. I was at a wed. Carter and I were groomsmen in a wedding in our 20s for a guy. And we were all walking like to walking up to enter the venue to get, you know, to walk down the aisle or whatever. And the guy, the groom himself was yelling out dead man walking. The fucking groom was saying that. And that's why Stewart says that in this episode. I think that began the idea of like the cliches that get thrown around even at times by.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I think what I think is provocative for me about it is people mistake the particular for the universal. They. Because they feel a certain way, they impose it on you or they try to say like, this is how it's going to be for you.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

And I'm in full rejection of that. I'm absolutely.

[Craig Thomas]

It doesn't help anything. Yeah. But Stewart clearly is deeply unhappy. That's the problem in Stewart's case. It actually is.

[Josh Radnor]

But it's revealed, it's thrown back to him. And there's, you know, there is a funny thing of like married people want other people to be married. And I don't know what that is. But there, you know, I mean, the cliche is misery loves company, but it's not. I think the other thing that's really funny that happened to me and Jordana is like you have so much energy around, like almost like leftover energy around hunting for like a partner or connection that you, you immediately, I mean, Lily and Marshall too, you immediately as a couple become a matchmaking like yenta couple, like trying to help their single friends.

[Craig Thomas]

Right. That energy sort of repositions itself and becomes an outward facing. We'll create this for other people. Yeah, I think that's real. And it's definitely Marshall and Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

It really made me laugh when Matt was forced to put on the mouth guard and he really didn't want to.

[Craig Thomas]

What is going on in that hotel room? This is borderline. It's a little creepy at times this episode. But it's tempered by the fact that Marshall wants no part of this and neither does Ted. And Barney just thinks we. It's the same thing you're saying, Josh, of like the society creates these things. Like, well, you gotta go big on the bachelor party. Cause your life's over after that. And it makes people think they have to have these crazy experiences on their bachelor party. But the truth is it's often very unpleasant and awkward and it's just bizarre. And I think Alec strip Clubs were involved in both Alec and my bachelor parties. And I truly, I'm not saying this to seem like cool and about. It was not a pleasant experience for the most part. It was just awkward. And the Grimm's sort of humiliated and embarrassed. And Alec, what are you gonna say? But be careful.

[Alec Lev]

Well, so too was a relatively small hotel room. We're not gonna go further than that.

[Craig Thomas]

Right. I mean, it was basically that. And it's just like, oh, now you're just in a hotel room and there's a stripper with like a boombox and sort of taking off her clothes. And everyone there is uncomfortable. The only person not uncomfortable is kind of the stripper themselves because they're like, I've done this a bunch of times. All these guys are awkward. I know these awkward expressions on these guys faces. But it is. Yeah, it's not great.

[Josh Radnor]

It's not great because I was older. I mean, I'd been to some of those bachelor parties in my 20s and stuff, but because I was older, Jordana went upstate with a bunch of friends for a weekend. And I had about eight or nine guys over to the apartment. And my friend, a friend of mine came in from LA and he gave us supplements like beautiful that do beautiful things to your mind and heart.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And we sat around in absolute bliss. And I thought that was for hours and hours and hours. Oh, it was the best.

[Craig Thomas]

Foxwoods was the best, guys.

[Josh Radnor]

It was the best. Like, I was so happy with my bachelor party.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that's way better. Yeah. But yeah, I like that. Marshall and Ted realize they have to absolutely dupe Barney into thinking he's going to get his way to try to have an actual fun night.

[Josh Radnor]

But he's like, how does he have the stripper waiting?

[Craig Thomas]

It's never explained how Barney gets. That's a magic chick in a half hour's time.

[Josh Radnor]

That's a pure magic chick. Also, the stripper played by my old friend Aaron Cardillo. Shout out to Erin.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, that's your friend Aaron.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, I knew her. I knew her before I was on the show.

[Craig Thomas]

She was funny in this.

[Josh Radnor]

She was really funny. Do you know what I think is funny? That you guys attempted to do a lot and some of the. Some of it was unsuccessful. And I say this by way of saying it's more delightful because it's unsuccessful. You were trying to wink towards X rated stuff on a PG show.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like the strippers were always like very clothed.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

And like kind of moving in this, like gesturing towards like sexy and provocative. But they couldn't be too.

[Craig Thomas]

They couldn't really be too.

[Josh Radnor]

They couldn't do it. So it's like they had to get, you know, they're fully clothed, they move off screen. And then presumably that's where the dirty stuff happens. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

That's what.

[Josh Radnor]

And then the jaws hit the floor

[Craig Thomas]

one second later. One second later. The second they go off camera, it's like, oh, my God, something insane is happening now. Like, what could it be?

[Josh Radnor]

That's not legal here. Yeah, amazing.

[Craig Thomas]

It's. I mean, I like the way in which this episode punctures this kind of like myth. This mythology of like the bachelor party is going to be so great. It's not that great. What Ted and Marshall were trying to do before Barney took it over was that would have actually been great. But I love all the tropes of it. Ted and Marshall are trying to still be good guys. Barney's like, no, I'm absolutely going to pervert this entire experience. And then the mystery box of the guy who just goes missing. Brad just going missing and showing up shirtless at the end is so fucking weird and great.

[Josh Radnor]

Again, kind of like hangover before hangover.

[Craig Thomas]

It's very hangover. Yeah. There's a bunch of echoes of hangover. Pre echoes. What's an echo beforehand?

[Alec Lev]

Can I read swirly memes? Our friend swirly memes. Can I read their comment right now? Are you aware that this episode is basically the hangover before the hangover even existed? A bachelor party, the whole gang piling into a car. A stripper, a hospital visit. Plus a best man who hates marriage. A best man who completely ruins the night. And a best man who disappears at the beginning and only shows up at the very end.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, if this episode and our episode. So the pineapple once and had a baby. That's the hangover.

[Josh Radnor]

You guys are probably owed some money from doing that.

[Craig Thomas]

I think just a little something. We should at least talk to a lawyer. Yeah. We should at least consult with a lawyer.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Was it also like there was probably like, let's get Joe's shirt off.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, probably. And that was me and Carter saying that. Yeah. And then Lily and Robin's whole journey. I will say this is another instance where one of the most far fetched or even like sitcom y seeming threads in the episode is real. One of our writers, I think it was Kristen Newman. It might have been Courtney Kang. I forget either was at this experience or had a friend who was at this experience of the dildo, the gift wrapped dildo. And the person shows up and realizes it's grandmas and aunts. And it's not the dildo party. This is not a BYOD party. This is a very, very different and chaste tone. And this is. That really happened. A writer in the room. I feel like it was Kristin Neumann. I tried to email her and Courtney and ask, and I didn't get a response yet. Maybe I'll check it before the hour is through here. But it was real, so this is definitely. There is a kernel of truth.

[Josh Radnor]

Kernel of truth.

[Craig Thomas]

Alec, wake up, Colonel of truth. God damn it. I'm there. I got it. That's a good. Whenever you get that one, that one's good. And then we obviously spun it out and exaggerated and added nuns and the antique sewing machine and things like that.

[Josh Radnor]

But also, it's really. I mean, everyone has had the experience of like, oh, I misread the tone of this party. Yes, yes. Like I've showed up either dressed completely wrong. Do you know that famous. I think it was a tweet where someone said, I showed up for my friend's Halloween party. They were dressed as the babadook, like full on babadook. When it was more of a wine and cheese kind of adult party. And no one else is in costume. They're in full babadook.

[Craig Thomas]

Some friends of mine this past Halloween went to pirate cocktail night at some local bar dressed in full pirate regalia, only to realize the drinks were pirate themed. No one else was dressed as a pirate. It was something like that.

[Josh Radnor]

There's something so horrifying about it. Really brings you back to being like 12 or 13. Like misreading.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, just this huge misread and the dis. Like, again, coming back to Koby's reactions. Koby, almost without dialogue, is the comedic star of this episode because just her pained reaction as the hole gets deeper and deeper and deeper that Grandma Lois is digging. This is a family heirloom. My. My mother used it.

[Josh Radnor]

Wait, let's talk about this. This Grandma Lois speech.

[Craig Thomas]

But I just wanted to say constructed that speech.

[Josh Radnor]

Kay Callan is an actress who also. I've talked about this on another podcast. I think in season one, she wrote these books for young actors about navigating the business. I read all of her books and they helped me so much, like kind of get my pre professional hat on.

[Craig Thomas]

She's a stage actress primarily.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, she's done everything. She's got a long career.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, she's great.

[Josh Radnor]

And she passed on all her wisdom in these books that I thought were so smart, so helpful. And I got to. I wasn't on set the day they were filming that, but I was on set with her on Tuesday, you know, so I got to tell her, I read all your books, and they were so helpful, and she was so lit up by it. She was so happy to hear that, that I was now, you know, there. They helped me, you know, like I was.

[Craig Thomas]

But she.

[Josh Radnor]

I just want to shout out her again as someone that when I was doing a lot of research and trying to figure out how to make a go at this and have a career, she was someone who really helped me. And then we ended up on this show together.

[Craig Thomas]

I love that exchange because I'm picturing her saying, I'm so moved by that, Josh, that my amusings on acting could educate you. And now here I am on your TV show doing a dildo bit.

[Josh Radnor]

Showbiz is tough. She was sm. I think she was smoking. She's like, it's a tough business, but,

[Craig Thomas]

boy, did she fucking nail that. I mean, that is just like a good actor. A good actor. Like, she came in and elevated. She made it so natural. That speech. Right. That speech is completely forced. But she's laughing, and she's having memories of the past, and she's talking about an antique sewing machine, not a dildo.

[Josh Radnor]

But she didn't do a single kind of wink.

[Craig Thomas]

There's no wink. There's no wink.

[Josh Radnor]

It was so funny in the way it was structured with Robyn behind her, and. But also, I. There's some. I don't know how you phrase this in comedy, but sometimes there's jokes that you let go three times longer than you think they should go.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, you could have hit two or three of those jokes, and it could have been like, that's hilarious. But you hit nine or ten of them.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You know, I mean, and it split up into multiple scenes. It was more than one scene. It wasn't. It kept going.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah. And it just goes on and on because I think it's like, it's just trying to get Robin deeper in this. Like, oh, my God, this has to stop.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. It kind of stops being funny in the middle, and then it gets funny again. It's the 500 miles of jokes. You know, it comes the 500 miles.

[Josh Radnor]

And also, it's the rakes in Sideshow Bob.

[Craig Thomas]

It's the rakes in Sideshow Bob. Or the cymbals on the wall in Mr. Show. It's just like, it stops being funny, and then it starts being even funnier than it ever was. Yeah. It's so good.

[Josh Radnor]

You have to be. You have to have real confidence to journey through the valley of. This is too much to get back up to the place where it comes back around again.

[Craig Thomas]

Carter and I technically wrote this script just to talk about how writing works in a room. I think we probably said, okay, everybody, here's the bit. We had half a bit. We said, the bit is, she's talking about a dildo, but it's gonna be about something else. What's the perfect thing? And then everyone helps you get to antique sewing machine, and you say, okay, what are the things we can say that apply to both dildos and antique sewing machines? And you have, like, six to eight brilliant minds working on that like it's fucking NASA. Like, it's Apollo 13 and we're trying to bring those brave astronauts home. Except it's. What is the Venn diagram overlap of a dildo and a sewing machine?

[Josh Radnor]

I think it's so funny to think about, like, a young writer and the parents call that night. How was work today? Oh, really good. What did you do? Like, give me a snapshot of what a day is like? Well, we had to think of all the ways that an antique sewing machine could be talked about in a way that it could also be a dildo.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, I pitched the idea that a grandma is talking about what you think is a dildo. And she says that her husband, the grandpa, he'd have a go on it sometimes, too, and he'd like it.

[Josh Radnor]

That was my line. Mom and dad, the room really liked that one.

[Craig Thomas]

It's just like kids in a candy store if you get that shape. I remember Steven Lloyd being particularly great or very brilliant. Very craftsman. Brilliant craftsman. Right, Writer. I remember him hitting for a high batting average in the Venn diagram overlap there. But I do remember one moment where I think I hesitate to even put names on this story. But it might have been that Stephen Lloyd or some writer came up with the setup of. This is earlier in the episode where someone asks Robin, you're president. What color is it? And there's that Shakespeare beat and says black. I remember the writer who pitched that came up with the setup knowing and was going to say black, but another writer said black before the person that pitched the setup could say it. And then the guy, let's say it was Steven Lloyd, was like. But I was gonna say. And the writer who said black got the huge laugh and sort of got credit for the joke. But Steven Lloyd was like, no, that was definitely what I was gonna say. That's still my joke.

[Josh Radnor]

I have this running bit with my friend Dion, who is hilarious. He's a writer on the Tonight Show. And in grad school, I. I. Sometimes my humor is like. I just whisper it to one person. I don't. I don't. I don't always megaphone it to the room, but I was. I would always whisper him jokes, and he would immediately just say them and get a huge laugh. And I would have to be like, that was mine.

[Craig Thomas]

But that was mine.

[Josh Radnor]

And you look like such an asshole when you're like, that was my joke. And he goes, I said, you're a thief. You're a joke thief. And he goes, no, man. He goes. He goes, I'm an amplifier. That was his defense. I amplified him.

[Craig Thomas]

Someone else maybe had the idea of jumping the Grand Canyon, but I fucking did it. You whispered the idea.

[Josh Radnor]

And he's like, I'm being generous. More people should be able to hear it. I also really love Robin. Sincerely attempting telepathy with Lily.

[Craig Thomas]

The telepathy run is so fun. That is an A. It's so fun. That was. And then. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

[Josh Radnor]

And she thinks she's asking for a table. But also, like, the way Pam shoots the telepathy. Like those tight closeups where you can see, like, the sweat dripping, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. And how about the face? The face acting involved in that whole exchange. Like, Ally crushing her side of it. Kobe crushing her. I'm looking at the present. No, I'm looking at you. No, I'm shaking my head no. It's just.

[Josh Radnor]

But it's also. It's Adam McKay's thing is, there's nothing funnier than people being confidently wrong.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, when Lily's like, I gotcha.

[Craig Thomas]

You're welcome.

[Josh Radnor]

I know exactly what you're saying.

[Craig Thomas]

It's great that the. The gang definitely can communicate via telepathy. Like, that is a magical realism trait of this show. But they're not 100%.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's 83%.

[Craig Thomas]

It's 83%, tops. That was a great.

[Josh Radnor]

What is Naked Girls in Democracy? I wrote that down.

[Craig Thomas]

The best things in the world was that.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, yeah. Naked Girls, Democracy. And what was the third one?

[Craig Thomas]

And the scene in Every which Way But Loose where the chimpanzee gives the finger. That's the third best thing in the world. Yeah, Kids, that's a Clint Eastwood movie from the 1970s.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, my God. I mean, it really does. The more we go through this, you understand how Shakespeare, like something written a hundred years ago, needs massive amounts of footnotes. To explain what the jokes were.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I feel like we already need

[Josh Radnor]

it 19 years later.

[Craig Thomas]

19 years. Yeah, absolutely. Like, remember those annotated Shakespeares where it's the other page, the right. The left page is the text, and the right page is just explaining all of the incomprehensible things on the left page. We kind of are there in 19 short years. It's troubling, but definitely people under 30, people in their 20s, people in their teens listening to this podcast, loving the show. Now I feel like we have to explain some of this shit because they do not know Lou Ferrigno, and they do not know every which way but loose.

[Josh Radnor]

If you don't know every which way but loose, Clint Eastwood movie from the 70s. It does not seem to diminish the enjoyment of people.

[Craig Thomas]

It's still an enjoyable turn of phrase. It's a monkey giving the finger. That's just fun to think about.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's also like, Ted and Barney know what that is. So you trust that they're having a fun moment that's enjoyable to watch.

[Craig Thomas]

It gives history and dimension to that friendship in some way, even if you don't quite know it's a.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think that if you. If you eavesdrop on two good friends talking.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You're gonna miss a lot. Like, a lot of it is unspoken. You know, there's not a lot of exposition because there doesn't need to be. So you're. You're hearing it. And. But it doesn't mean that eavesdropping isn't compelling. Like, it's fun to listen to people talk in somewhat coded language. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And when I think you. You learn a lot. You learn the context of things. Like, I feel like I still have things that I know about as references I heard when I was a teenager and still didn't ever watch or read the thing, but it stays with you, and you go, I kind of know what that is because it's been referenced. Yeah, there's a weird. There's a feeling you get the shape, you get the basic gist of what it is.

[Josh Radnor]

And also, you sent me that article that, you Know How I Met yout Mother sadly left Netflix. People are still upset about it, but it's living now on Disney, Hulu, and

[Craig Thomas]

then Disney internationally, but they're kind of merged those two.

[Josh Radnor]

But it's also, like, crushing. Like, isn't it, like, one of the top, like, shows globally right now?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. It's huge numbers. I think it's often in, like, the top 10 internationally. And, like. And yeah, there was a whole article about it.

[Josh Radnor]

So it's not dependent on people knowing Clint Eastwood's film?

[Craig Thomas]

No, no. New generations that definitely have not seen Every which Way But Loose are discovering, and maybe a few people go find it, and then they find the gem that is that movie. Not really. It's not actually that great.

[Josh Radnor]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you.

[Craig Thomas]

New York City and now commercials.

[Commercial Narrator]

Spring is here, and there's a whole new way to chai at Starbucks that's made perfect for you. Choose your sweetness.

[Josh Radnor]

Dial it up.

[Commercial Narrator]

Or keep things light. Add a touch of pistachio, a hint of strawberry or vanilla, or make it a spring classic with lavender. Because this season, there's endless ways to chai at Starbucks.

[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials. Back to show.

[Josh Radnor]

You know. You know what I just realized? Like, I love the line when Robin shows her the lingerie and she says, oh, you know when you should give that to her? Barney says, 1850. Yeah, right.

[Craig Thomas]

Old timey voice.

[Josh Radnor]

Barney is the cause of all the. In both of these.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Because he's the one who tells Robin she should go.

[Craig Thomas]

You're right, Barney. That's a great observation. Barney is definitely the poison pill in both storylines. Even though he exits one story, he just, like, plants a time bomb. In the Robin story, it really is like a ticking time bomb. Like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Yeah, you're right. It's all Barney. Barney is pure chaos incarnate.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm also wondering, like, what was it about the fleur de lis sweater that I put on and said, this is the one.

[Craig Thomas]

Over and over. Ted is so committed to that fleur de lis sweater. Old tech, old fashioned.

[Josh Radnor]

The other, when they're in the hospital and Marshall says, she told you not to use the smoking machine while she's on the hippity hop. And also, like that. Barney was in charge of the smoke machine. Like, why?

[Craig Thomas]

And we see that later. That's true. He operates it later. He did not learn his lesson. He's using it again.

[Josh Radnor]

But also, again, your imagination has to wander. Like, what's the hippity?

[Craig Thomas]

What's happening? Yeah, it's better not to. The unseen is better. It's Jaws. It's the old Jaws rule. Don't see the shark.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

But I got the heart and soul of this episode, and it was one of the big ideas that launched the whole episode idea and also allowed us to make Barney especially awful in this episode, as you pointed out, he sort of ruins both storylines, both bachelor and bachelorette parties. And he knowing that we had this knockout punch, like, silver bullet of redemption for Barney at the end, knowing that we could pay that all the way back, it kind of posthumously redeems Barney in Scorpion and the Toad, episode two of season two, where he's so awful to marshal. And he says in that episode, I'm just trying to teach you how hard it is out here. Which doesn't seem fully true. It seems maybe slightly true, but more. It seemed like Barney's ID just couldn't be checked. But when he says it here, I can only steal away girls from Marshall to protect him from. To keep him still yours, Lily. I can only do that for so long because he's great and someone else is gonna see it, right? So don't let that happen. When he flies to San Francisco when it's revealed that he did that, oh, those many months ago. And he is the reason, yes, he ruined these two parties, but he is the reason there's a wedding, right? And once we knew, we had that idea that Barney was the reason there was a wedding that grounded the entire episode. And it allow. Without that, there's no episode, I think.

[Josh Radnor]

But I do think it's funny in the. It's kind of like Barney logic where it's like, I love these people. They deserve to be together. I'm going to sleep with all these women to ensure that they stay together.

[Craig Thomas]

He does the long way around.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow, he's really taking one for the team there.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not pure sacrifice, but he flew. He fucking flew to San Francisco and told Lily the truth.

[Josh Radnor]

I love the reference back to the scorpion and the toad. There's something so great about it, you know, Especially when the network was like, standalone, standalone, standalone. And you're like, no, this is a serialized thing. Like, we're building, like a real history for these people. And we're standing each episode stands on top of the other episode.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, yes. This is an example of us ignoring that note. Cause this calls from episode. What is this 19? Alec, episode 19 calls back to episode two and explains episode two and explains all of Barney's bad behavior in episode two and all of Barney's bad behavior in this episode. And shows you that Barney, as much as he does hate marriage and as much as he doesn't love to lose his friends to commitment and growing up, he can't stand past a certain point to see Marshall suffer. And he went and got Lily for him.

[Josh Radnor]

For him, it's kind of like it's the phrase. Like, beneath every cynic is a wounded idealist, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Right, right.

[Josh Radnor]

He was the most idealistic. He wanted to go into the Peace Corps and save the Earth.

[Craig Thomas]

That hippie Barney. Yeah, yeah. There was that guy that wanted to believe in love, that was in love. And he knows Lilly's out there regretting being away from Marshall too. Again, that deeper intuition that we've had people point out, like fans have pointed out, like sometimes Barney's deeply right about something. Barney is very. Barney knows Lily's mustard bro. Lily doesn't say a word. Barney flies to San Francisco.

[Josh Radnor]

I love Lily in that scene, actually, Allyson was so good in that scene, she didn't say a word.

[Craig Thomas]

Silent acting. There's a lot of great silent acting

[Josh Radnor]

in this episode, including Matt Boren, the great silent clown. Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a theme. And that is a very moving sequence. That is a very, I love that sequence. I think that elevates this episode to extra special. And he becomes co best man for Marshall, which is his dream. Barney's whole dream is he wants to be important to these guys. He wants these guys to give him some relevancy. And he earns it.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost like he learns in the flashback with the Peace Corps and the girlfriend and the transformation into the Barney Darth Vader. He learns rotten lessons. He learns that only the strong survive. You gotta take what you want. Every man for himself. He learns that. And the series, on some level level, is a progressive unlearning of those things for him. So he learns like, oh, my God, I did a really good thing. I did a good thing for my friends and I got the thing I wanted. Like, like there's a different moral calculus that goes on for him as he gets older and, and wiser, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's, it's lovely. I, I, the end of this episode is really Barney. It's Christmas morning. For when you go, barney, really? Really, I get to be co best man. It's like you need those glimpses into who he is deeper beneath the suit. And this was a good one.

[Josh Radnor]

And just one other shout out to Neil. The winks are very funny.

[Craig Thomas]

Very good winks.

[Josh Radnor]

The way he winks, I don't know why. It made me laugh. Every single wink made me laugh.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, me too.

[Alec Lev]

Craig, most of the questions want to know when you made this decision, was this a, a, a, a Scorpion and the Toad era decision where you knew you were going to pay this off 15 episodes hence, or did you come up with this later on.

[Craig Thomas]

I think we came up with it somewhere in the middle. I. I think. I think we.

[Josh Radnor]

We.

[Craig Thomas]

I think we thought he was so shitty in Scorpion and the Toad, and I, we did think there was some truth when he said, like, I'm just trying to get you toughened up for the world out here. I think Barney told himself that and wanted to believe that. But I. I think somewhere along the way, we thought, we need to pay this off somehow. We need to show that Barney was instrumental in this. And we knew there would be a battle of who's the best man. Barney wanted to be the best man. And we thought, what if Barney did actually earn being the best man? So I think we didn't come up with this, like, five minutes before, you know, the table read or something. But I don't know that we had it at Scorpion and the Toad. I think it was in between.

[Josh Radnor]

There's also something. It's so dramatic and it's so. It's also like something like, you need a little money to do this. Like, there was something really. It tracked for me. Like, it made sense that he would do this, and it opens him up.

[Craig Thomas]

And I love how immediately Ted is willing to share best man's manship with Ted. Ted's the first guy that says, I think Barney's your best man.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a very generous thing to say, but there's also.

[Josh Radnor]

There's two ways that you guys have constructed to deal with Barney's Barney ness and sometimes horribleness. One is to give him, like, a comeuppance, like, with the twins. You know, like, to shame him. To kind of, like, leave him alone at the end of the night and somewhat humiliated. And the other way is to reveal a softer, sweeter side of him.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And it really played here. I really. I really loved it. I love that Barney and Lily had this sort of sweet secret. And I love that, like, Lily knew he was right. Lily didn't say a word in that scene. But what did she do? She packed her stuff up and came back to New York and began the steps towards getting back together with Marshall, which is what this whole season has been about. It's, you know, it's the Ted and Robin season and the Marshall and Ellie get back together season. And it turns out it all began in San Francisco before the season even started, really.

[Josh Radnor]

Or.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, right. It happened over the summer between. Between the seasons. Barney wants to have been the guy that creates the story that you tell.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But you know what? A lot of Parties. A lot of parties are fueled by that guy. You know, if it wasn't for that guy, there'd be less parties in the world.

[Craig Thomas]

It's Sweet Taste of Liberty. It's licking the Liberty Bell in the end. That is a story they told to their deathbed. You know, Barney does create those memories. They're just sometimes terrible memories, but they become funny and kind of legendary over time.

[Josh Radnor]

But you know what? If you're going to go. If you're going to go for it, that's the risk.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You. It. This will be remembered somehow. Good or bad, it will be remembered.

[Alec Lev]

I want to thank you for mentioning the Liberty Bell. We do have an ending to this whole section of the show. I want to talk for a second about a friend of ours who appears in the background of this episode. Craig, I want you to tell us a little bit about who he is and how he.

[Craig Thomas]

At the steakhouse. Yes, this is. We would be remiss not to give the shout out at the steakhouse scene. First of all, there are a lot of caricatures of him yummers up on the wall, mixed in with celebrities. There's Carter, there's me, there's some other people. Then there's like Conan o' Brien and Weird. But there's a actual real life human in that scene, too. In the background eating dinner is Noah Garrison, who we went to college with, Alec and I, at Wesleyan.

[Alec Lev]

Let's hear from Noah. Let's hear from Noah Garrison, who would go on to. His life, would go on to be an important part of Marshall's life, of your creation of the Marshall character in terms of a lawyer. Let's hear what Noah has to say.

[Craig Thomas]

Do you have an audio clip of Noah that you almost forgot about but just remembered? Is that what happened?

[Josh Radnor]

Maybe.

[Craig Thomas]

Here we go.

[Noah Garrison]

Hi, everyone. Josh and Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Hello.

[Noah Garrison]

And Alec, thanks for the introduction, sort of bringing this all together. I met Alec in nursery school in New York when we were three years old. And we ended up together through summer camp. We went to high school together, we went to college together. And that's where I then met Craig, literally on our first day at Wesley and Craig, you lived across the hall from me. And so we hung out a lot our freshman year. And I think Alec has already taken credit for the best part of your life. But I really want to reiterate that the entire reason Craig met his really wonderful wife Rebecca is that she'd come up to visit us, which then led to the two of them meeting. And really Craig was just a lucky bystander and everything that led to all of this. None of this had to do with him personally, but connecting back to the show, Josh, I'm not sure if you'll remember this, but pretty early on, after the pilot shot, but before it aired, I met up one night with you and Craig and Carter and Jason at a bar in la, and we all ended up hanging out together for a few hours. You know, you were all just a really genuinely friendly and fun group to hang out with. But the thing I remember most about that night was that after a few hours, we all got, like, super amped up that we were going to pay our tax, grab our things, and head straight out to go to Coachella for the rest of the weekend to the music festival out there. And after the first wave of how utterly awesome this was going to be hit, I also immediately remembered, in the just most deflating way possible, that I was a first year law student, literally in the middle of studying for final exams, and there was absolutely no way I could get in a car with all of you. I don't remember if you guys actually did go, but I'm now rewatching the show with my son, who is 10 years old and completely loves it. And I realized that early in season one, there's an episode where Ted and Barney take off and go to lick the Liberty Bell, and Marshall gets left at home studying for law school. And in hindsight, that just hits a little bit too close to home for me. So I can say, though, that 20 years later, I am absolutely certain I made the wrong call and I should have gotten in the car with all of you. Anyway, though, this is great to see. I'm so happy to have gotten a cameo early on in the show and in a really fun episode, and I'm really excited for you guys and the podcast and that I'm getting to rewatch such a totally wonderful show.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow. Thanks, Noah.

[Craig Thomas]

Josh, did you and Carter do it? I think you did go to Coachella.

[Josh Radnor]

We did. I went two years in a row, I think, with Carter, maybe three. I think Carter and I went to Coachella. At least you went in year one,

[Craig Thomas]

because that's where you discovered Block Party and this song, this modern love that we put on the finale of season one or two.

[Josh Radnor]

I. I will have to ask Carter.

[Craig Thomas]

No, the whole reason we knew that song is. Oh.

[Josh Radnor]

Was because Block Party was there.

[Craig Thomas]

You guys saw Block Party and you went. That song's fucking awesome. Carter gives you credit for that. I think.

[Josh Radnor]

I also saw the Shout Out Louds which are a Swedish band that I put in. Happy. Thank you. More, please. The opening credits I saw.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, cool.

[Josh Radnor]

They were the first band I saw on, like, one one of the days there, and it was really. It was just awesome. But Block Party was huge that year. I remember they were really a presence at Coachella.

[Craig Thomas]

Carter didn't know until you guys went and did that. So you guys went and did it. Noah studied for his test, and you guys got amazing memories. And Noah.

[Josh Radnor]

Noah was like, remember that?

[Craig Thomas]

So Noah is the reason that Marshall's a lawyer and an environmental lawyer. Noah is both a geologist and a lawyer and teaches environmental law. Teaches at UCLA now. He worked for nrdc. So a lot of the DNA of Marshall's kind of career and parts of who he is I borrowed from Noah. Thank you, Noah, for allowing me to Carter, to raid your life the way we did.

[Josh Radnor]

And if this timeline is correct, that we were out drinking, probably at the Cat and the Fiddle, we were out drinking pint after pint, and then in the morning, going to drive out to Coachella just shows how young we were and how resilient our bodies were.

[Craig Thomas]

The idea that I

[Josh Radnor]

did it and take off her Coachella in the morning is. That's another human's body.

[Craig Thomas]

I have a headache thinking about just thinking about that.

[Josh Radnor]

All right, welcome back. We're winding things up for this episode. If you would like to share with us why you love How I Met yout Mother, how it came into your life, how it changed your life, please go to how we madeyourmother.com, h w my m.com go to contact and just follow the instructions. You can either write us a letter, which we might read at the end of an episode, or you can record a voice note which we might play at the beginning of the episode. It's one of our favorite things about doing the show is hearing from all of you about what the show has meant to you and how it made

[Craig Thomas]

you feel about your name.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And how it helped you acclimate to your.

[Craig Thomas]

So we want to hear from some Ted, some Barneys, some Marshalls, and some lilies to even things out.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah. So this is a great letter we got from India, and I am going to read it now. Hey, Chris, Craig, Josh, and Alec. I'm Abhishek and I'm from Mumbai, India. It's been a while since I've been listening to your podcast, and honestly, I'm not a podcast guy, but since the very first episode, there's nothing I look forward to More every week than the Whim Yim podcast. Maybe it's because ever since the show ended, I've been trying to hold onto it in any capacity that I could. And for good reason. 2014, the year the show ended, I graduated high school. And just like the that two of my favorite things in life no longer existed. My friends from school and my friends on TV were suddenly not around. I missed how I met your mother, and I missed school. And there were no substitutes for those two. On top of that, I was off to college, majoring in something I had no interest in, because Indian parents always, almost always, turned to engineering or medicine after school before they let you do what you want to do do. And thus began four gruesome years of my life, and the only thing that kept me going was how I met your mother. I watched it again and again and again for four years until I was done with college. I didn't hate my time there, and it wasn't bad. But in hindsight, I've started appreciating that time because I've realized now that I was supposed to be there. I realized precisely what the show was trying to say when Ted said that you end up exactly where you're supposed to be, exactly when you're supposed to be there, there. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you about the butterfly effect that transpired in my life because it was indeed, like destiny. After I was done with those four years, I joined a design school to finally do what I'd always wanted to do. And it was there that I met my best friend and now girlfriend. We've known each other for seven years and have been together for the last three and a half. I've never been more certain about anything than spending my life with her. I'm completely in love with her. And even though she doesn't understand my obsession with how I met your mother, other rolling her eyes every time Ted starts talking about the one, she knows the impact the show has had in shaping me. So had I not majored in engineering instead gone to some design school four years earlier, I probably would not have met her and would still be cursing my time after high school. This realization made such an impact on me that for my senior dissertation, I wrote a paper on how I met your mother and the causal significance of seemingly unimportant moments, moments and decisions in our lives. The butterfly effect. It was my way of saying thank you, an ode to the series for making me understand that you can't jump straight to the end. The journey is the best part today, like Ted, I get to do what I've always wanted to do as a kid. I sketch and design cars for a living. And like Ted, who got to design the Spokane National Bank Tower at a young age, the first car I've designed is all set to launch next year. I hope I get to live the dream with my girlfriend by my side. And it's all because of that one decision that was forced on me by my folks after high school so I could be at the right place at the right time. I cannot thank you guys enough for making How I Met yout Mother. It's not just a show to me, it's a guidebook to living life. Abhishek that's awesome man.

[Craig Thomas]

Great letter.

[Josh Radnor]

Congrats on that call.

[Craig Thomas]

Can it be called the Mosby? Just asking. Just has it gone to press yet? Can we still get it in there?

[Josh Radnor]

That's so wonderful. Thank you for that letter. And again, we're just so thrilled that that this show we made has been such an important part of people's lives. So thank you. Keep those letters coming, keep those voice notes coming, and we will see you next time. Thanks a lot. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven In New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How we Made your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Pointe Blue Studios. Our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own Josh Rabbit, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we made your mother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack and check out his music and everything [e-mail]. order Craig Thomas's debut novel, that's Not How It Happened, wherever books are sold and check out his other published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My own Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack to learn more about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. People will, in fact, dance.

[Josh Radnor]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?

[Robin (Listener or Guest)]

Close your eyes.

[Commercial Narrator]

Exhale.

[Josh Radnor]

Feel your body relax.

[Commercial Narrator]

And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered for free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Josh Radnor]

And breathe.

[Commercial Narrator]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Josh Radnor]

1-800-contacts.

[Craig Thomas]

Olivia loves a challenge. It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes.

[Josh Radnor]

But for booking her trip to Paris, Olivia chose the easy way with Expedia. She bundled her flight with a hotel to save more. Of course, she still climbed all 674

[Craig Thomas]

steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route. We were made to easily package your trip.

[Josh Radnor]

Expedia Made to travel flight Inclusive packages are atoll protected.