How Dare You Mess with Claudia | S1E12 "The Wedding"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother: Episode Summary – "How Dare You Mess with Claudia | S1E12 'The Wedding'"

Release Date: June 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of How We Made Your Mother, hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve deep into Season 1, Episode 12 of the beloved sitcom How I Met Your Mother—titled "The Wedding." This episode serves as a pivotal moment in the series, exploring themes of love, friendship, and the complexities of planning a wedding among friends in New York City. Joined by insightful discussions, memorable quotes, and heartfelt reflections, Josh and Craig unpack what makes this episode resonate so profoundly with fans.

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Listener's Insight: Jack's Story (00:01 – 02:20)

The episode begins with a heartfelt message from a listener named Jack:

Jack (00:10): "What How I Met Your Mother means to me, it's the emphasis on hindsight, the benefit of hindsight, and the fact that as bleak and as negative as things may seem in the moment, actually it may be building to something better."

Jack shares his personal journey of overcoming a nervous breakdown eight months prior, attributing his recovery and newfound happiness to the show's optimistic narrative. He reflects on how the series' portrayal of navigating life's lows led him to a transformative experience in Tokyo, where he feels empowered to express his love.

Jack (01:59): "Thank you for that. It's really helped thinking about it and watching the program. I don't think you can de-emphasize just how much it means to people."

This poignant testimony sets the stage for Josh and Craig to explore the show's deeper impact beyond its comedic surface.

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Episode Analysis: "The Wedding" (02:20 – 34:32)

Plot Summary and Key Themes

Josh and Craig transition into discussing "The Wedding," highlighting its role as a critical two-part episode that intricately weaves character development with engaging storytelling.

Craig Thomas (03:00): "It's always an amazing way to start the show because this is our first time hearing them. So it kind of puts you on your back foot in a good way."

The episode centers on Ted Mosby’s (Josh Radnor) preparations for a wedding, grappling with his unresolved feelings for Robin. The central question revolves around whether Ted checked the "plus one" box on his wedding invitation, leading to a series of comedic and dramatic events that test friendships and personal aspirations.

Josh Radnor (08:39): "It's exactly what we just talked about. It's Ted making a plan, coming up with an idea and an aspiration. He's going to bring an unshakable plan."

Memorable Scenes and Quotes

One of the standout moments discussed is Ted's internal conflict about bringing Robin as his date to the wedding:

Craig Thomas (05:00): "It's almost like future me is going to need some resilience. They're going to need the lessons and strength that I'm gathering now because it might even be harder in the future."

This reflects the show’s recurring theme of self-improvement and foresight, emphasizing the importance of enduring current struggles for future benefits.

Another pivotal scene involves Marshall and Ted staging an intervention to convince Stuart to end his relationship with Claudia:

Josh Radnor (15:00): "Barney says you do not bring a date to a wedding. It's just like bringing a deer carcass on a hunting."

This metaphor underscores the inappropriateness of Ted's intentions, blending humor with critique of social norms.

Craig Thomas (21:16): "She plays it with humanity... the actress deserves so much credit."

The hosts commend Virginia Williams for her portrayal of Claudia, highlighting the depth and nuance brought to her character.

Twists and Character Dynamics

The episode culminates in a significant twist where Ted does not bring Robin but instead meets Ashley Williams, setting the stage for future storylines:

Josh Radnor (34:14): "I love that ramp where he actually does meet a very serious love interest. In that moment, he seems to be giving up upon it."

This moment not only shifts Ted’s romantic trajectory but also reinforces the show's theme of destiny versus intentional planning.

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Behind the Scenes: Writing and Editing Insights (34:32 – 45:33)

Josh and Craig delve into the collaborative efforts behind crafting such a memorable episode, giving tribute to the show's editor, Sue Fetterman:

Craig Thomas (17:32): "Do you know what I'm saying? Like, she saw every take, right?"

Sue's meticulous editing ensured that key moments, like Ted's subtle reactions, were perfectly captured, enhancing the episode's emotional depth without overshadowing the comedic elements.

Josh Radnor (17:44): "She knew the cast, she really watched everything... she attuned."

Additionally, the hosts discuss the challenges of balancing humor with emotional weight, ensuring that episodes like "The Wedding" remain both entertaining and impactful.

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Themes and Insights: Resilience, Memory, and Growth (45:33 – 62:55)

Resilience and Future Aspirations

Building on Jack's message, the hosts explore how the episode embodies resilience and the importance of striving for future self-improvement:

Craig Thomas (05:54): "It's like parents sacrifice for their children and we sacrifice for our future selves."

This analogy underscores the show's motivational undertones, encouraging viewers to endure present hardships for future gains.

Memory and Storytelling

The conversation also touches on the role of memory in the show's narrative structure, emphasizing how How I Met Your Mother uses storytelling as a means of processing and understanding past experiences.

Craig Thomas (06:03): "How I Met Your Mother is also about a man in dialogue with himself."

This introspective approach allows characters to grow and evolve, mirroring the audience's own reflections on their personal journeys.

Growth Through Relationships

Josh and Craig discuss the complexities of relationships portrayed in the episode, highlighting the necessity of personal growth and mutual understanding:

Josh Radnor (51:23): "Nothing is always effortless... there has to be some spirit of effortlessness."

This sentiment captures the balance between ease and effort in maintaining meaningful relationships, a recurring theme in the series.

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Special Segments and Listener Engagement (62:55 – End)

Letter from Emily

A touching letter from Emily, a listener from Oberlin, Ohio, recounts how How I Met Your Mother provided comfort during the birth of her second child:

Emily: "We’d been watching together since season one... waiting and waiting and at least for a little while, pleasantly distracted with these great characters we knew so well."

This narrative illustrates the show's role as a companion during significant life moments, reinforcing its impact on fans' personal lives.

Merchandise and Fundraising

The hosts introduce their new merchandise line, Hot Top Bro, supporting congenital heart disease research—a cause close to Josh’s heart:

Josh Radnor (59:08): "Anyone who buys this merch, you're supporting something really and truly amazing."

This initiative showcases the podcast's commitment to giving back, blending community engagement with charitable efforts.

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Conclusion

How We Made Your Mother's analysis of "The Wedding" episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the show's enduring themes and character dynamics. Through listener stories, in-depth episode breakdowns, and behind-the-scenes insights, Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas illuminate why How I Met Your Mother continues to hold a special place in pop culture. By intertwining humor with heartfelt reflections, the podcast not only celebrates the show's legacy but also invites listeners to connect their own experiences with its narrative tapestry.

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Thank you for tuning into How We Made Your Mother. For more insights, stories, and exclusive content, visit howwemadeyourmother.com and join our community.

Transcript

[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Jack]

Hi, I'm Jack. I'm from the great city of Norwich in the uk, Though I'm actually talking from the middle of Tokyo in the early hours. What how I met your mother means to me, it's the emphasis on hindsight, the benefit of hindsight, and the fact that as bleak and as negative as things may seem in the moment, actually it may be building to something better. It may be setting you on a course in your life which ultimately leads something better. That means a lot, simply because I About eight months ago, I had a nervous breakdown. I wasn't very happy with my life and here I am eight months now, eight months from that now, and I'm much happier where I am. I'm in Tokyo for the first time and I might be in a position to tell the girl that I love.

[Josh Radnor]

That I love her.

[Craig Thomas]

So.

[Jack]

Actually, seriously, thank you for that. It's really helped thinking about it and watching the program. I don't think you can de emphasize just how much it means to people and how much it means to me. I don't know how to thank you for that, except for this message. Thank you.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Well, hello there. I'm Josh Ratner. I am joined by my friend Craig Thomas for another episode of How We Made youe Mother. Hi, Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Hey, Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, boy.

[Josh Radnor]

Maybe one of these openings, I won't get choked up as it's happening, but I'm 0 for 12 or whatever it is now. Not getting choked up.

[Craig Thomas]

It's always an amazing way to start the show because this is our first time Hearing them. So it kind of puts you on your back foot in a good way. Right? Like I don't come on knowing where we're going to hear how I'm going to respond to it, what Jack was saying so beautifully. And I think, I think the thing about, I think the medicine, if you could distill what, How I met your mother, the special medicine that it has within it, that, that people keep going back to it as if it's some kind of like, well or altar, some sort of like nourishing life giving thing is it doesn't shy away from the low moments, but it gives you this context for viewing the tough stuff in life that says no, you, you know, a lot of times you have to be broken open so something else can come in and the old parts of you have to die and go away and wither before the new thing can, can regenerate and grow. And you know, I, I was listening to him and I was like, wow, I need to hear this today. Like, I'm glad he said that, you know, Me too. And I, you know, I'm just as, you know, winding down my tour and I have certain songs that I'm so glad I wrote them because I get to sing them all the time and I get to hear them again. I get to hear them anew. And, and even working on this show with you, Craig and Alec and all and everyone else is like, it's just, it's refreshing that, that message within me, you know, and it's so much, it's bigger than How I Met yout mother. But I think How I Met your mother did such a good job at creating, spinning a narrative where people could get literally punched in the face. It was all part of some big plan. I mean, it's really, it's quite magical.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's interesting. There's this idea of the one, right? I'm gonna hold on to meet the One. And that is a beautiful thing, right? That aspiration, that romantic idea of meeting the One. But what I took from Jack's message, and I think it is in the show too, maybe even as much or more built into the structure of the show, is that when you're in a low moment, you should also hold on for future you. That's who you're doing it for, right? You're holding out and enduring for them so they can get through it. You can meet them later, you can meet future you and tell the story. That's who you owe it to. That's who you're doing it for.

[Craig Thomas]

And it's almost like future me is going to need some resilience. They're going to need the lessons and strength that I'm gathering now because it might even be harder in the future. Like I need to. I'm in training for my, for my future self and, and presumably maybe your, your kids. You know, I think there's, there's that kind of like, there's the storyline of, of parents sacrifice for their children and we sacrifice for our future selves. Like, it's a really. That's quite a lovely idea. I love that, Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I mean it's, it, it. I really heard that in what Jack said there. So Jack, thank you. Thanks for reminding us of that part of the show we made that maybe we weren't aware in a way.

[Craig Thomas]

And also like How I Met yout Mother is very much about a man in dialogue with himself. You know, it is that, that there's a. Certainly the older narrator, Ted, is in dialogue with this younger self, but on some cosmic, weird level. Present day Ted, my, my Ted, the Ted I played, is also in dialogue with his older self because he's always thinking about the, the front porch down the line and what, what I'm going to be. You know, he's, he's trying to lay the seeds for his life and, and you know, he's, he's mistake prone and he's, he, he draws erroneous conclusions quite a bit. But he ultimately like, he does string it together. And I think, I think there's something about the show that's quite forgiving. You know, there's a mercy at the heart of it that I think people really respond to. Like it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to, you know, it's okay to have a breakdown, as Jack said. And then before, you know, eight months, Eight months is not that long to, to kind of like swing to the other way. So it's like it's a faith, it gives people faith. I mean, what, what better thing would you hope for from a television show?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's, it's an honor and a privilege to hear that it meant that to Jack and other people. It's, it's, it's amazing.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And that is that, that is the aspirational quality of the show. It's sort of. It seems at first that it's the aspiration of meeting the one, but in a way it's also just surviving and realizing you're becoming the person who's gonna tell this story one day, which I love. Ted For. Cause that's his drive. That's really his drive.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Well, let's downshift into the episode under discussion this week.

[Josh Radnor]

This episode embodies a lot of what we just talked about.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it really does. And this is kind of. We've been talking about this. This is kind of part one of a really like a two part episode around this wedding. This episode, the wedding, which is episode 12. Is that right, Alec? Yes. Yeah. And when did this episode air?

[Alec Lev]

This episode first aired on January 9, 2006.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay.

[Josh Radnor]

Our first one of the new year.

[Craig Thomas]

Our first one of the new year. And then this led into. Drumroll, please. Episode 13. But let's limit our discussion, at least for now, to the wedding you want to be.

[Josh Radnor]

It will be hard. I binged them last night. I watched them as an hour and it plays so great as an hour that it will be really hard not to talk about it as well. I made a huge mistake watching both together, even though I loved it. I love the hour of this. But we'll talk about the first half hour and then we'll get to this.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, do you want to do our quick summary as best you can of what happens in this episode of the wedding?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I mean, it's exactly what we just talked about. It's Ted making a plan, coming up with an idea and an aspiration. He's going to bring an unshakable plan.

[Craig Thomas]

That has to be exactly the way he sees it. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. It's actually quite like the limo, which preceded it in a way, where it's like the plan and then watch the plan fall into absolute shit. And. But then maybe something better emerges out of that. It's a similar. Similar structure. But Ted wants to bring. Ted's feelings for Robin have crept back up. Right. We saw it start in Pineapple Incident. We saw it when they kissed at the end of the limo. We saw some heat there. We saw those embers are starting to catch a little smoke coming out of there again. And Ted says, I think I have feelings for Robin again. And he wants to bring her to this wedding that they're all going to. And Ted is convinced he did his thing. He always does, which is checking plus one out of this aspirational hope that when he got the wedding invitation and he looked ahead a few months, he would have this belief that he would be in love with somebody and bringing that person. And I love how the whole episode kind of becomes this symposium on. Is Ted the kind of guy who always checks that box out of his feeling? That He's a couple guy. Or is Barney actually right when Barney says, you didn't check that box, you checked that you were going solo. Cause you knew you were gonna go there with me and we're gonna hook up with bridesmaids and whatever. And I love that the whole episode is kind of this, like, court case, essentially about which guy is. And of course, in the end, we find out that I'll just spoilers that Barney is right. Ted did not check that. Which I think is really, really interesting that Ted did not check it that one time.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And it's a weird thing again, like how memory plays with us and toys with us, you know, Like, I'm certain I checked that, you know, because I'm the kind of guy. It also is very Field of Dreams, you know, this idea of, like, you build it, they will come, right?

[Josh Radnor]

Yes, totally.

[Craig Thomas]

He's a man, you know, he's really wanting to. He's. He's wanting to. He's wanting to create space for this other person. But something in him is like, self sabotaging. And it's even mystifying to him. Right.

[Josh Radnor]

There's a thing you want to know. You want to know if Ted checked that box or not. And you do get to find out the answer in the Eddie episode. I really liked that.

[Craig Thomas]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. City. We'll be right back. Alec, I have a question for you.

[Josh Radnor]

Sure.

[Craig Thomas]

Do you ever leave your house and go places?

[Alec Lev]

As seldomly as I could, but there have been times I've left.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You get to a certain age and you just want to hunker down and I. I don't.

[Alec Lev]

I don't want to go anywhere.

[Craig Thomas]

Where have you been recently? Outside of the home.

[Alec Lev]

I actually. Well, I went. I went on a big trip. I went to. I went to Sancerre. Sancerre. Where? Sans.

[Craig Thomas]

That's in France.

[Alec Lev]

It is in France. It clearly is in France.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow. How was that? What were you doing there?

[Alec Lev]

It's an incredible town. I was. I was taking a language course for two weeks, four hours a day, immersed in French in this beautiful.

[Josh Radnor]

Get it? You're smarter than us. Just move through, move through.

[Alec Lev]

Thousand years old. But I'll tell you this. I don't. It's very famous, Sancerre. It's very famous for wine and cheese. I don't drink wine and I don't eat. I was. I took a lot. I was in the wrong town, but it was beautiful. It's an amazing place. And Now, I'm. I'm doing research for a project that I'd like to. I'd like to do there.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, fantastic. Are you aware of how much money you lost by not hosting your home on Airbnb while you were in boom?

[Josh Radnor]

You didn't see that coming, did you, Al?

[Craig Thomas]

No.

[Josh Radnor]

You thought you were all smart with your Sancerre language class. Guess what you lost out on making money with your apartment. You could have been hosting it on Airbnb while you were in Sancerre. Alec, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.

[Craig Thomas]

Greg, you've been married a long time, right? How long you been married?

[Josh Radnor]

That's none of your business.

[Craig Thomas]

Come on.

[Josh Radnor]

I have been married since 2001. I don't want to date this because people can hear this for years, but 24.

[Craig Thomas]

24 years.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, man.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow. I've been married less long, but I do know from having been married at least a little while, a lot of marriage is figuring out with your spouse what you're going to eat.

[Josh Radnor]

Big time.

[Craig Thomas]

And it happens all the time, every day. Just new challenge of what are we going to eat?

[Josh Radnor]

What are we going to eat three times a day?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Don't you find it exhausting?

[Josh Radnor]

I find it exhausting and stressful. And there's got to be a better way. Question mark.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. In the modern world, we got to figure out a better way. What about this? You ever heard of HelloFresh?

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, my God. I knew you were going somewhere with this. I was like, where is he going with this? Why is he talking about my marriage? I knew you were leading this somewhere.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

And now back to the show. You know, this episode is really, really good. And I also, Jordana has remarked that to her, the show is getting funnier as she watches it. But I think that's a consequence of, you know, you know, the characters a little Bit deeper. And when they respond as their character would respond, there's pleasure in it. Right? Because you're like, oh, that's old. So and so. Like that sounds just like, you know, Marshall loves the cake. Oh, he's a cake lover. You know, like I actually jumped ahead, but I had some notes that I warned you feel like the ravings of a madman because I watched this.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you remember writing these notes? Sort of a fugue state.

[Craig Thomas]

I was so much tantrum. I have no memory. It was just a tantrum. And sandwich weekend. What is deer carcass on a hunting trip.

[Josh Radnor]

That is. Okay, this is good. We're going to make a little game show this one. I'm going to try to the game. The game is me translating Josh's.

[Craig Thomas]

The game is.

[Josh Radnor]

I haven't answered this one. Yeah, the answer is Barney says you do not bring a date to a wedding. It's just like bringing a deer carcass on a hunting. Which is the creepiest possible metaphor. Barney is clearly a murderer. Barney has a murder house somewhere.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that's what. That one was great. Did you write that down? Because you heard it and at the time you think you were so disturbed by that image that you wanted to ask about it or you don't even remember. You have no recollection of it.

[Craig Thomas]

I remember just being startled by it.

[Josh Radnor]

Like it's a startling image. It's a startling image. As I think they point out to Barney in the moment too. To be fair.

[Craig Thomas]

I really like. This is another. I'm trying to get in the habit of seeing when I think I did a good job. It's a self esteem builder, right? Yes. I love Ted's face when he hears that Robin and Derek broke up.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh my God. Christmas morning. Trying to hide the Christmas morning look.

[Craig Thomas]

It's. It's really fun as an actor to play two things at once. It's fun to play the thing and then cover it or. Or cover it not that well. Because of course he has to be like, oh, like a good friend. But the twinkle in his eye is like. Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, it is an a reaction shot. It is a full on a reaction shot. I turned, I was watching with Rebecca, my wife, and I said that is a great. What Josh just did there. That little. I was going to single that moment out too. It was great. Good job, Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

But well, it's also.

[Josh Radnor]

You did good work there.

[Craig Thomas]

It's also nice that you and sue, you know, included that like it's important like to clock. This is his.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's say that. Let's talk about that for a second. Sue, our editor, who won, I believe, three Emmys for How I Met yout Mother was one of her superpowers as an editor is that she just knew your guys energy so well. She knew the cast, she really watched everything. She mentally logged things and she. So when her cuts, when her first assembly cuts would come in, before we started honing it more, so much good stuff was in there. She really attuned. She's a musician. Sue, before she was an editor, was a professional violinist in orchestra.

[Craig Thomas]

Violist, I think.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, violist. And she. God, now I'm up in my head about which one it was. Sue, forgive me, forgive us all if we got this wrong, but she had a music to her and she attuned to what you guys were doing so acutely so she would not waste that reaction shot. I bet that was in her first assembly. She was.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, you could make a case that Sue Fetterman knew the show better than anyone.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, she saw. She saw the 35 minute cut and she helped whittle it down to the two times, you know, so she saw every take, right?

[Josh Radnor]

Yep.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, I mean, she really got. And I think she. It was funny. Like, I remember when sue would come to set, she would pop in every once in a while and she would always, you know, she clearly loved this gig. Like, this was a job she really enjoyed. And you could, you know, she always made us feel so good because she would say, I'm just having the best time, just having the best time editing you guys, you know, and that was such a nice feeling because before you saw the final cut, you were like, oh, the person who's got their eyes on this first is really likes this.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, she loved you guys and loved the show and like really got it. And what a superpower to have that on the roster, right? I mean, like at every. We had the right person at every job on this show, which doesn't. Which doesn't always happen. And yeah, what a lucky thing. So those little moments, they don't get lost. Those little moments.

[Craig Thomas]

When did Barney say how. Wei. Wei. Oi. What was that? I wrote that down.

[Josh Radnor]

How? Way, way, way. Alec, do you remember we all watched this one night ago, less than 24 hours ago. I'm planking on that one.

[Craig Thomas]

I bet people listening know.

[Josh Radnor]

This is the worst. This is first, really the worst podcast of all time. This is three guys not remembering what they watched. 18 guys not just Watch.

[Alec Lev]

But you guys wrote it, rewrote it.

[Craig Thomas]

Look, it's about the fallibility of memory, this show.

[Alec Lev]

Yes, it is about the fallibility, but.

[Craig Thomas]

It made me laugh. It made me laugh. How? Way, way, way.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, my God, I'm blinking.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

This is embarrassing.

[Craig Thomas]

What?

[Alec Lev]

Maybe next time when you do notes, you can draw pictures along along with it.

[Josh Radnor]

Write down time codes like.

[Craig Thomas]

Sue, what was it? Is it Stuart who says, you called our seven year old flower girl a. Or is that yes?

[Josh Radnor]

Yes, that's a Stuart line.

[Craig Thomas]

So I want to shout out Stuart and Claudia, Virginia Williams, Matt Boren, who came back a bunch of times over the years, right?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, they came back a bunch of times. But I will say, I don't want to cut you off, Josh, if there's no.

[Craig Thomas]

Go ahead, go ahead.

[Josh Radnor]

Here's my observation. Rebecca said this as we were watching it. She's like, first of all, I want to say I love them and I love this episode and I love the hour that is this sort of two parter. It reminded me a lot of how the pilot and purple giraffe, when you rewatch those, it really is. It's an hour. It really is. Like one episode. The wedding and drumroll. I'm having such a hard time not talking about drum roll already in this podcast because it feels of a piece. But Stuart and Claudia, it's very funny how in this episode they just seem like they're the best friends of this group that you've never heard about till now. And then you go a long way never hearing about them again. And when the wedding, like the moment where the wedding falls apart, they've broken up as a couple. Who does Claudia call? She calls Lily. Lily is not in her bridal party. Lily's not her maid of honor. She's like, ah, who's the one person I could talk about this Lily. And it's just. It's very funny how much emphasis is put on, like, Stuart and Claudia. We really built that up. We didn't really explain how they all knew each other. We just sort of like created this condition. They're all really close. That's my one note on the episode. My other note on the episode is there's a moment in the episode where Lily has to is like, I'll go run down to the bar and comfort Claudia. You guys go talk some sense into Stuart. Marshall says, let's go talk sense into Stuart. And the guys get to Stuart hours before Lily gets right downstairs to the bar. Rebecca was like, why does. Why is there such a lag for Lily getting down to the bar, she's like, what happened there? I was like, I don't know. I guess maybe he's taking a giant dump or something. That was my best. I thought she was probably.

[Craig Thomas]

She was peeing because Lily was always peeing.

[Josh Radnor]

First season, it takes Lily a really long time. Barney has plenty of time to try to get, you know, work his moves on Claudia. And we really. If we had it in the script or the cut, we definitely didn't keep it in the episode that aired. Was there. Did we ever talk about an obstacle of why Lily didn't make it down there faster? I can't remember.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, speaking of the script friend groups, I have three very good friends, two of whom are married, but they're. They're just like my nearest and dearest. These. This. These people. And we call ourselves the Cirque, right? Like, we're the Circle. The four of us, we play you through together. Like, we're. And people who get close to us are like, can I be in the Cirque? And we're like, no, never. But we have a name for the people on the outside of the Circle. We call it the Riff. For the periphery. Like, you're on. You're. You're kind of.

[Josh Radnor]

In the Riff.

[Craig Thomas]

You can be in the Riff, you know, so Stuart and Claudia were in the Riff, but they were never going to be in the Rifle. They were in the Cirque. They were never going to be in the Cirque.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, they're in the Riff, but, yeah, they're not. It's just so funny that that's the person that, like, Claudia is like, I've got to talk to Lily right now. And there was something funny about that. We're rewatching it. But.

[Craig Thomas]

But they're. They're so. They're both so perfectly cast, because Virginia had a way of being kind of like a bridezilla, but not in a way that was, like, odious. It was more like, no, she has a point. Tet. Like, you can't do this.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, that is stuff up in here a little bit, right? You do not with a bride. Ted is definitely stuff up.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, I also watch this now. 20 years. I haven't seen this in 20 years.

[Josh Radnor]

You've gotten married.

[Craig Thomas]

I had a wedding. Like, I understand. Like, if someone calls you two days before the wedding, and they're like, can I bring a date? It's like, are you insane?

[Josh Radnor]

Like, this saying, shut up.

[Craig Thomas]

Is designed with an inch of its. In an inch of its life. I Also thought it was funny that in 2005, like a wedding costing $400,000 is a really expensive wedding. Like it's expensive now, but like that's a really expensive wedding.

[Josh Radnor]

That is a really expensive wedding. I know we didn't. I don't know if we lived up to that in what we portrayed. We see like a couple little tables.

[Craig Thomas]

It looks like a Hilton ballroom.

[Josh Radnor]

It doesn't look like, I think they got ripped off that 400k for sure.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. But Matt Boren is so like, he has the face of a like silent film comedian.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh yes, he's really funny.

[Craig Thomas]

He has a great, just an ability to just like be long suffering, you know, but not in a way where you feel like we gotta go save him. Just in a way. Like he's probably the only person who could handle this energy.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. But he's kind of cocky in a way. He's kind of like, I could get someone hotter than Claudia. And your reaction, another great Ted moment is when you start, Ted just starts laughing way too fast and way too hard at that. And that's to kind of like pull back from it. Like, well, that's crazy. You shouldn't break up with your. With Claudia. That was a great moment.

[Craig Thomas]

The scene where Marshall and where they go to stage the intervention is very good.

[Josh Radnor]

I love that whole sequence. There's so many funny moments in that. And Marshall ending up saying you should break up with her and then saying the sort of great reason why, like what the stakes are of getting married. I thought that was really. I loved how Jason played that.

[Craig Thomas]

I love. And I love Ted's dude, like you. Yeah, I stole that shout out to my, my Kentian college roommate Matt Olins. I stole that from him. He would do that all the time. Dude, like, like, why are you saying that? So I kind of took that from him.

[Josh Radnor]

You know. It was a dated moment too, if I may say so. I think they're listing the thing great things about.

[Craig Thomas]

I know exactly what you're going to say.

[Josh Radnor]

Being single when he's like having porn.

[Craig Thomas]

No, he said owning porn.

[Josh Radnor]

Owning. Yes, sorry, he said owning porn. I was like, how quaint. How quaint.

[Craig Thomas]

Kids, there was a time porn one.

[Josh Radnor]

Day where people owned their little hand picked curated porn stash.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And that is that the Internet and modern life has gotten rid of that incredibly charming thing where guys had a bag of VHS tapes or something or DVDs.

[Craig Thomas]

And you know what? Sometimes there was so much. The circuits got jammed.

[Josh Radnor]

The circuits got jammed. I was thinking this is this episode's circuits got jammed. This is us calling back that in the limo. They say the circuits got jammed 100 times about cell phone calls. And it makes it sound like we don't know how cell phones work. Yeah, but I thought that that was this. This week's of, like, owning porn.

[Craig Thomas]

Owning porn. Yeah. There's not a lot. It's. It's shocking, though, how few references date the show. Like, there's a couple that I think are actually. When they do that, they jump out and it's. It's good. You know what I loved? I love the fast forwarding sequence of the argument. Wasn't that when Stuart and Claudia were breaking up?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Like, I love that.

[Craig Thomas]

I love.

[Josh Radnor]

We had to write a whole big, long argument for them. Like, those were, like, separate script pages that they had sort of had to do. And we said, you know, it's. You don't have to be, like, word perfect on this. But they needed something that would take that long. Right. We're literally fast forwarding through what they're really saying. That would have been great, too. I should sometimes go back to the script before we do these podcasts, clearly, because I've not done my homework. It would be very cool if I had that and could just read what they're really saying, but I don't. But they had a whole script.

[Craig Thomas]

But it was also cool. It's a. It's a. It's a great storytelling thing because when you have, like, an argument that ends in a breakup, those are hours long, you know? And you literally. You remember three sentences from them. You remember, like, the wounding lines or the ones that you're like, oh, we're not coming back from this. Like, this is really.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, yeah, we have. We have crossed the Rubicon. There's no putting this one back together. I love the moment where you stop and she just goes. And your mother. And then you start fast forwarding. And that was my favorite moment of that. They played that so great. I wonder how long that went on for in real life. I'm going to say it was hours.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And then she goes and finds Lily, her best friend in the world.

[Craig Thomas]

It was also fun. The way Virginia played Claudia was so like. I mean, you know, when I think it's like, Barney, like, when you see it from the outside, you're like, why would these people be friends with it? But when you have that much history and you know them from the inside, you know? But I liked how every time he had to call her, it was. He was justifiably scared you know, like.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, she was in a scary state for sure.

[Craig Thomas]

But again.

[Josh Radnor]

But she played it with a humanity.

[Craig Thomas]

I liked her totally.

[Josh Radnor]

But again, the actress deserves so much credit.

[Craig Thomas]

Virginia having now gotten married and understanding the stakes involved in a wedding, how much planning goes into a wedding, and for just like someone on the riff to call and be like, hey, cool if I bring a date? It's like, it's maddening, you know? Oh, yeah. I'm kind of like, I'm emotionally with Ted, but logistically I'm like, yeah, Claudia had every right to scream at him. Like, there's no.

[Josh Radnor]

Claudia is so justified. Ted is wrong. Ted is in the wrong for most of this episode. And she comes across crazy, but she has a point, which is what makes it good. And Stewart is so great. He just so haplessly walks into this drama. He doesn't care about who's coming to the wedding. And she really. And yeah, it's a great payoff when Robyn doesn't even show up. And I love how Virginia played that moment too, where she's relaxed in that moment. They're married, they're at the party, she's.

[Craig Thomas]

Having fun, she's had a couple drinks.

[Josh Radnor]

And she's able to laugh about it. The way that when you look, it's true, right? You look back on your wedding and you go, ah, right. It was just. Essentially, it's just a party, right? Once you've done it, you're sort of like, it changes immediately.

[Craig Thomas]

My friend is getting married this summer in Paris and. And he asked for my kind of hard earned wisdom around weddings. And I said, weddings are. The dress rehearsal is the performance. Like, you do not really get to rehearse, like the rehearsal. Like, that's not a rehearsal. Like, so much goes on that is, you know, there's going to be the things in the speeches that are. That kind of wound you a little bit, you know, like my friend, a friend of mine told me he. At his wedding that I was at, he. There was a table in the back that was some really good friends and they were just talking so loud and he was so upset by it. But then he. He was told later the speaker that was by their table was kind of blown out and it was outside, so they couldn't hear anything. So they were like, kind of detached from the whole thing. And I just tried to say to him, like, it's going to be chaos. A lot is going to go wrong. But the wrongness is part of the rightness. Like, you just have to bless the whole Thing. A wedding is chaos, and it's almost like marriage. Like, you just bless it all because it's all. It's never gonna again. Like, with Ted, it's never gonna go according to your specifications, but it's gonna unfold the way it's gonna unfold, and you gotta be okay with that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, it's funny. The whole thing becomes. I mean, this whole episode is yet another, like, exploration of plans meeting reality, right? From all ends. And the idea that Ted essentially sets off these dominoes that lead to the couple breaking up because he's trying to will this plan into being. It's. Yet again, Ted's kind of hubris, right? If we're talking, like, basic, like, Greek mythology story structure. Like, he flies too close to the sun by promising Robin the slot, and he is sorely punished. And he really brings other people down with him when he comes crashing down. And yet you so understand you are rooting for Ted. You know, he's wrong. If you're the couple getting married, he's wrong. But you're so rooting for dead. And you believe, right? When you first watch this episode, maybe you do think he checked that box, right? Yeah, we know he didn't, because we know how the episode ends. But when you're first watching it, it's pretty convincing that he does, Right? The episode opens with him. You almost feel like you saw him check the box. Of course, we don't see which box he checks conveniently, but you feel like you see it and you work off that premise the whole time. And then I'm reminded of it was a real reveal that he didn't. And Barney is basically. I love another great Neil moment in that episode. Ne so funny, his little Barney voice when he does the little Barney in the back of Ted's head. And I love that he's done this so many times. Marshall and Ted know exactly what it is. I love the shared history. But Barney's right. Barney's right. Ted, some part of yourself, deep down, does not actually think you're ready for all the shit you're claiming you're ready for. And he's right.

[Craig Thomas]

It's also nice that even though Ted almost breaks up this marriage and ruins a $400,000 wedding, he's not a villain. Like, that's really good writing because it's not, you know, it's not like I'm scheming or, you know, Ted scheming or doing something devious. He's actually just trying to do the right thing. He's Trying to do the right thing by Robin. He wants everyone to have a good time at this wedding. And I like that. It's not a morality play. It's like we screw things up. Like the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Like that's what it is.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah, I really like that. It's complicated. No one's purely the villain. It is a really well written episode. Shout out to the writer, Courtney Kang, who wrote this one, who's been on the show with us to talk about an earlier episode. She'll be back for sure. Great. Yeah, it's a great one. And it's funny. It's the first cause. Drumroll, please. In some ways, I think gets talked about more by the fans and maybe by ourselves too, because we meet Ashley Williams. There's so many very memorable things in that. This episode's so important. It really is an hour long story.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, there's no drum roll without this episode. Like, this tees it up perfectly.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, this is the drum roll to drum roll, as it were. And it's like. And it's really urgent. It feels like the stakes are incredibly high. I love when the stakes aren't bullshit. It's like for a minute in this episode, that wedding's off. I love that. It's really stressful to watch in a good way, because you're like, there's really. And you really are rooting. You know, we're 12 episodes into rooting for Ted and Robin or what's gonna happen with these two. And this is it really ramping back up. And the idea that Robin doesn't come and Ted has that moment of saying, it's just not easy. The universe isn't actually putting this into place for me and Robin. Barney was right. I'm not ready for any of this. And then the twist being that he ends up meeting this other, like, super intense love interest, a huge part of his life love story. He meets Ashley Williams in that moment at the end of the episod. Which one of my favorite music usages of the show. That soul meets body by death cab. When you're pushing in on Ashley across the wedding, the $400,000 crappy hotel ballroom. It seems to be cash bar.

[Craig Thomas]

Cash bar.

[Josh Radnor]

But I love that moment. And it's just interesting because there's a lot of twists and turns there at the end. I like that ramp where he actually does meet a very serious love interest. In that moment, he seems to be giving up upon it.

[Craig Thomas]

And if Rodman hadn't gotten and called to the station that none of that would have happened. And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you.

[Josh Radnor]

New York City and now commercials.

[Craig Thomas]

Quick straw poll. Who here wears underwear? Everyone. Okay.

[Alec Lev]

We do.

[Josh Radnor]

Guilty. Guilty as charged.

[Craig Thomas]

Yep. What? Does anyone have a preferred brand? Let's just get real. Let's just cut to the. Let's just cut to it.

[Alec Lev]

I only wear. I legit. I only wear one brand of undergarments. Just the one. Just meundies.

[Craig Thomas]

Meundies.

[Josh Radnor]

Meundies.

[Alec Lev]

Since COVID I've wear nothing but meundies since about.

[Josh Radnor]

For about five years now. That one pair or you switch them.

[Craig Thomas]

You gotta switch them out more.

[Alec Lev]

I also use them as my mask, so it was super.

[Josh Radnor]

They are multi. It's a multi face faceted item. Listen, we get cards on the table, Josh and I. We have. We. We're apparently maybe gonna get some meundies as part of our new. Our new sponsor, Me undies. But you guys really love and wear them already. And so tell us why they're so great and go, what.

[Alec Lev]

What. What does underwear need to be? It is. It is incredibly comfortable. It is. They're. They're soft right out. Right out of the bag. They're soft on your back. Can I say that?

[Craig Thomas]

I don't know.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know if you can say that, but I'm glad that you did.

[Alec Lev]

They are contoured. Can I. I'm going to explain it that way. They are contoured appropriately for.

[Craig Thomas]

For Alec Lev shaped men.

[Alec Lev]

Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

Just say it.

[Doug Matica]

They have a ball caddy.

[Alec Lev]

They have a ball caddy. I didn't know this was what they. I'm just. I'm just learning now that that's what it's called, but that's what it feels like.

[Josh Radnor]

All roads in this script lead to the phrase ball caddy. So let's just get there.

[Doug Matica]

They're also like climate controlled somehow.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, my God. Here's what I like as I'm reading up about it. 10 different styles to fit every guy's butt and presumably balls. Let's just do it. And I love that. That's a whole selection, depending on your body type, that seems superior to the underwear that I am currently wearing that shall go unnamed and does not have a ball caddy.

[Alec Lev]

So many different colors, so many different styles. There are fun, they're funny, they're silly.

[Doug Matica]

I got a pair that have sloths all over them.

[Josh Radnor]

Sloths.

[Craig Thomas]

So from a design perspective, this is an incredible company.

[Josh Radnor]

This sloth thing has introduced a whole other element to me now. I'M like, I don't know. Ball caddy sloths. Oh, my.

[Alec Lev]

They're great colors. I go black. I just have black.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, if you're only gonna wear one pair for five years, like Alec, you want it, you just buy black in your collar.

[Josh Radnor]

You're not using this product correctly, Alec, but it does sound like a great product. And here's the thing that we're going to say to end it, and we aren't going to get to say ball. We aren't going to say ball caddy again. So let's just. If we. Anyone who wants to say ball caddy one more time, just get it in there because we're barreling to the end now. Okay? Ball caddy. I'm. I only needed one more slide into.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

I'm not sure I like associating me unease with my mother.

[Craig Thomas]

Welcome once again to the continuing adventures of our friend Doug and Mint Mobile. Doug, what's the latest episode? What's happening this week with you and Mint Mobile?

[Doug Matica]

I was talking with our intrepid co producer here, producer Alec Lev, and he called me on a line that I used to call him on, which was my other big carrier line, and I realized when people in my phone call me on that old line because they haven't switched it over yet, after like 30 seconds, everyone turns into a computer robot voice.

[Craig Thomas]

You have to hang up and call them on your Mint Mobile line with a clear.

[Doug Matica]

And Alec can attest to this. I had to call him. Yeah. And it's happened repeatedly. And it wasn't until last week that I realized, oh, it's the old line. I just need to get away from it.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

That's right.

[Doug Matica]

That's right. A great coverage in the house where I live.

[Craig Thomas]

So you can communicate via telephone.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Doug Matica]

That's amazing. It's like the modern age.

[Craig Thomas]

This is great news. This is a great episode of the Adventures of Doug and Mint Mobile. I feel good about this one.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, this had a happy ending and it helped our own podcast because you guys can communicate better.

[Doug Matica]

Yeah, it did. We were talking about the show There.

[Craig Thomas]

Was a little bit of a cliffhanger when the voice turned into a robot, but then there was a good resolution. Our hero pulled it out at the end.

[Josh Radnor]

I thought the machines were rising up, but it didn't go that way. Way.

[Craig Thomas]

No.

[Doug Matica]

Mint Mobile saved us.

[Josh Radnor]

Mint Mobile saved us.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, if you like your money, and Doug does, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] your mother. That's mintmobile.com your mother.

[Josh Radnor]

End of commercials. Back to show.

[Craig Thomas]

I, I also think there's something about the age, that kind of tender age of like 27, where it feels like the weddings are starting in earnest. You know what I mean? Especially in like New York, people get married a little later. Like there's something about that time. Where are you? Do you have a plus one or don't you? Like, it's, it is, it is an existential issue, you know, like, do I, do I keep myself available at a wedding? Because people meet at weddings is one of the places where people meet. And really. And it's such a romance is in the air and it's hopeful and optimistic. And I think that, you know, that time, there's like a decade in your life where you're just going to a lot of weddings. And you know, when you go to them alone, it's just a little trick. I mean, some people prefer going to them alone and other people would rather have someone on their arm. But they're provocative, right? Like they're, they're a little bit like, am I, is this ever gonna happen to me or for me or, you.

[Josh Radnor]

Know, it stirs shit up.

[Craig Thomas]

It stirs stuff up for sure. And I think that's why people get a little too drunk at weddings. People like say the wrong thing at weddings. Like it's a. Yep, they're, they're provocative times.

[Josh Radnor]

There's big feelings. This is what I say to my children. There's big. You're having big feelings. There's big feelings at weddings. They're just, it just the stakes are really high. I'm proud of this episode, this two parter in a way. Cause I feel again, it's the same thing as with a holiday episode. Don't do a holiday episode unless you have a really good idea, a really good take on a holiday episode. Or else just don't do the holiday. Doing a wedding episode, doing a comedic episode or comedic movie about a wedding. You're very aware of the 7,000 years of wedding related material that has preceded your little attempt to do something set at a wedding. And I like this dilemma so much. I don't feel like I've seen this specific dilemma of the plus one idea and the sort of symposium on did I check this box? And what's going to happen? And then I really like the ending. Sort of has this two or three twists all at once. He didn't check the box. Maybe he's saying he should let go of Robin. He doesn't want to be. He wants to be single. He looks across the room and literally sees the next person he's going to fall in love with in that moment. I love that in the last, like 30 seconds of this episode, a lot happens.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. There's that thing. It's a little bit of a New Age cliche, but it's like something like the universe only gives you three answers to your prayers or requests. One is yes. Another one is not yet. And the third one is, I have something better in mind for you. Right. And Ted gets a. At least in this, you know, two parter, he gets a, I have something better in mind for you right now. You know, he gets both not yet and I have something better in mind all at the same time.

[Josh Radnor]

He does. I love that.

[Craig Thomas]

It's. It's kind of like, it is a really fresh take on weddings. And, you know, you could almost see the themes and stuff of this being expanded into a feature. Like it would be a great kind of feature film about a wedding. Right?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Well, sometimes the answer of if you're afraid, how do we do a good wedding episode? Or how do you do a good New Year's Eve episode? In both that episode and this one, which are back to back in the running order of season one, you never see the New Year's Eve party. And you basically don't see the wedding. Right. There's no wedding. You skip over the wedding. You're like, we don't become a cliche comedy take on weddings because you don't even see it. It's all about the run up to the wedding. And then the next episode basically jumps way into the past. The wedding.

[Craig Thomas]

It's the Rosencrantz in Guildenstern. Right. Like, you follow.

[Josh Radnor]

It's Waiting for Godot.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You follow the side characters. It's also, I don't know if you. We might have discussed this, but did you read Mark Harris's Mike Nichols biography?

[Josh Radnor]

No, I have not read it yet. I keep hearing how good it is. If you're.

[Craig Thomas]

If you're like in showbiz is. It's like, I think essential reading. It's just really, it's like juicy, but also edifying somehow. And he was such a fascinating character, but one of his truisms about romantic comedies, he said if you want to make a classic romantic comedy, they can't get together at the end.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, the Graduate is kind of like this really discordant, weird ending. Right. Like, it's not like a big celebration. It's like, what have we done? You know, that kind of look as they go on that bus towards an uncertain future. And I think, you know, how I met your mother, like, both fulfills. It gives you everything you want and it's constantly pulling your rug out from under you at the same time.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. And other even, like When Harry Met Sally, like, you know, there's that feeling at the end when Harry Met Sally that, like, it's still a journey. Right. It just ends with the two of them and she's sort of like going on her long run at the end as they're just sitting there doing their little couple sort of like, talk to the camera thing. And like, it's true. It's. If we all love a happy ending and a warm, wrapped up ending. But it's true. They're really all timers. There's always something a little. Little. There's a little. The edges aren't always sanded down at the endings. That's a great observation by Michael.

[Craig Thomas]

And if you're, if you're, you know, if you're. If you're. If you're an acute observer of life, very rarely are things symmetrical, perfect. Like you, You. You kind of have to bless the. What's the. That Japanese thing. Wabi sabi. Do you know what that is? It's like Japanese artists will put an intentional flaw in their piece.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And it's. And it's like a wink from the artist that says, like, I'm an artist, I'm an imperfect being. And also like, like I acknowledge that there is nothing perfect. So we should just dispense with that fiction right away.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes. You know, that's great. Yeah, that's great.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I think it's the same idea as doing an episode about a wedding and not showing a wedding or doing an episode about New Year's Eve and not showing New Year's Eve. It's like so much of life happens not at the thing you think it's about. It happens around the thing and before the thing and after the thing. It's almost a testament to. There's no endings. There's one death is the one big ending.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, it's also the thing of, like, we're. And I think part of the challenge of life is to not be the main character all the time. That's why having children is like healthy for the soul and sometimes hard on the ego because you really have to dethrone yourself. But when you're at a wedding, you are the main character of your story of the night, but you're not the main character of that evening because that's the bride and groom. Right. So you're like 10 rows back and you're having, you know, maybe an argument with your wife or girlfriend, whatever, like. But that's your experience of the wedding is from that perspective. That's the story of your wedding. And the bride and groom are kind of like fogging off in the distance.

[Josh Radnor]

Totally. It's totally Rose and Grant's and Gilda Strand and waiting for Goodot. It's like, that's what it's like to go to a wedding. You're not the main characters.

[Craig Thomas]

You are off.

[Josh Radnor]

But you can have all this drama going on off on your little table at table 10. There's a whole other drama happening.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I just had one other question to Marshall, interpreting your notes. When did Ted say to Marshall, do you think she's into me? Like, it was kind of like that moment. It was like in the middle of a heated thing and then.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And then he drops it all. Like, do you think, you know, he's so ready to drop plans to drop like his entire energy changes when the possibility that.

[Josh Radnor]

And you know what? It's a callback to the limo. Remember? It's a callback to the limo when Ted and his date are up through the sunroof of the limo. He's like, you really? Do you think she's gonna be. It's like two of those in two episodes. And you. Yeah, very funny. The way you played that. That was another good one, Josh. See, we're gonna compliment you. I'm gonna give some notes on the writing, but I'm gonna give you compliments. The other writing note I have is like, for this whole two parter, no one should ever answer the phone. There's always like, ah, we've solved the problem. Ring, ring. And then the phone. And it's like, it's like Robin gets called to go do. To do the newscast. I said I was watching with the brag. I said, no one should ever answer the phone. On tv the phone's always, just don't answer the fucking phone.

[Craig Thomas]

But those are the deus ex machina. Like Those are the. That's how the universe disrupts everyone's life.

[Josh Radnor]

It's the universe calling. It's universe calling, for sure.

[Alec Lev]

I want to say one thing just about the overall writing and structure of this is that if you think of this episode sort of as a twist, it's a bit of a twist episode, right? Because we really feel like this is about the back and forth of Ted and Robin, and then you give us this wonderful twist. And I think a lot about how successful twist movies, the best ones, are ones that work not quite without the twist, but that the second time around, it's not just about the twist. It's still great storytelling until then. And I feel like that's what you have here. You have this great Ted and Robin confusion wedding episode. Oh, and there's this twist. But then as from everything you guys are talking about, it's completely part of the. Of the fabric of the episode. The idea that this is leading somewhere for him. A lot of the perfect things had to happen or not happen to get to. I can see this girl across the room and pursue it. And it just really worked both ways.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Oh, thanks. That's nice to hear. I really liked that on second watching, too, and realizing that this spins you in a whole new part of the season. That's great. You think we're going back to Ted and Robin, and maybe people watching, you'd be like, oh, that's pretty soon to go back. I thought we put that to bed and now they're all friends. It's already coming back in the middle of the. The dead middle of the season. It was a complete mislead. We were actually not going to come back to them until the end of season one. And I like that this spins it out into something completely unforeseen and. Yeah, it's the universe calling.

[Alec Lev]

All right, let's. Josh, we have a very special portion of our show. Would you like to introduce it?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, sure. Yeah. This is very exciting. This is a section we like to call questions and observations from a clinical psychologist who's never seen how I met met your mother and also happens to be married to Josh.

[Jordana]

So I was most taken by that moment when Ted came to the conclusion, based on Marshall's advice that love shouldn't be that hard. It should be simple and easy. And I'm so often working with patients around this concept. What should it feel like when you've found the person you're meant to be with? What parts should feel easy and when is it okay and actually normal for it to feel quite hard because, you know, in truth, long term love does indeed take work. And how do you know when it's too hard? So these are very big questions, but I am wondering where you stand here. You know, more specifically, what is easy and what's the kind of hard that just is the price of admission for a long term relationship.

[Josh Radnor]

That's a good one. I found myself thinking about it too, Jordana, when we were watching that, when Marshall gives that speech, I hadn't watched that speech in a long time and it felt very young to me. Like Marshall is the older, wiser guy in that moment because he's engaged and he's been with Lily since he's 18 years old from freshman year of college. And yet looking back at it now, it's like that is kind of a young take in a way. Because it's not easy, right? It's not. It's like you have to work at it. Nothing is always effortless. I think he was talking about there has to be some spirit of effortlessness. There has to be some effortlessness to the decision to be with that person. Right. That's how I took it. It should be like, well, I have to breathe oxygen. That's non negotiable. It should kind of feel that. Right. Love should feel that way. It should feel worth. I guess it should be an effortless decision. And then beyond that, you know, there's going to be hard stuff. But the decision part should feel like it's natural to you. And I think that's how I viewed the speech this time. How did you feel about it, Josh? How did you interpret that?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think, I think especially in first season, Marshall and Lily do have a. I mean, because they're, they're. Especially in this first season, they're more. They are the parents. They're like Ted's parents, you know, they are. That really is a role that they play. And even Lily, this is a drum roll line. But she says to Robin, like, happiness shouldn't be this hard. Doesn't she say something like that?

[Josh Radnor]

She does, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Which is both great and also like a little bit condescending and a little bit like not entirely true either. Yeah. Like, I think some people struggle in their career very mightily. Some people struggle in relationships. But I don't think that anything we do as humans, I don't think that anyone can inoculate themselves against struggle and hardship. I think it's common for all of us in various forms. And I think when it Comes to relationships. A friend of mine who's, who's older than me but very wise about relationships, he said, you know, the thing that makes us fall in love is this feeling of similarity. Like, oh my God, we love the same bands and the same movies and we have the same taste and aesthetic and, you know, and we both love to talk about our feeling. Like, all these things that go, check, check, check, check, check. Oh, don't we line up? And that's. It's almost like nature's way to get you bonded, right? And then after you've been with a person for a while, these differences start announcing themselves and then you have to navigate the difference. You know, I don't think Jordana will mind me saying this, but like a central, you know, thing in our relationship is like, she is a Google Calendar planner in a way that would make your head spin. Like, she'll go, hey, do you want to do so and so next Thursday at 3? And I'll go, okay. And I'll look down at my phone and I already. I have a Google Calendar invite. It's there. She expects me to. I don't. I didn't even see her write it down. It's just she beamed it into my phone and I have a thing where I don't know how I'm going to feel it Thursday on Thursday at 3. Because I'm not thinking about Thursday at 3. I'm thinking about today and maybe future Josh's problem. It's future Josh's problem. It's not my problem. And I think that, you know, I don't know if this is so gendered because I think there are men who are incredibly regimented in planning and list making and all those things. But I have had to yield and bend more towards, like, I've really had to like, get on top of the Google shared Calendar, right? Like, like, for the sake of my marriage, like, I've had to become much more of a planner. And planning vacations is very hard because I'm like, I don't know how many. I don't know if I'll have a job then, you know, I'm talking about our marriage.

[Alec Lev]

I know.

[Josh Radnor]

Did she walk in right as you began this speech?

[Craig Thomas]

So everyone. So it's been a real navigation. And it's also like, you know, she's had to bend and yield in certain ways towards. And I've had to bend and yield. But that's the kind of thing where, you know, that's like, good struggle. Like, that's like, good, you know, and it also, I think part of relate. Part of the blessing and opportunity of a relationship is is it dislodges you from your patterns or at least highlights them and allows them to be seen, which sometimes is you don't want them to be highlighted and seen. Like, you know, but. But it, but it ultimately makes you a more elastic kind of person. Right. And which I think is a, is a, is a net positive. Right?

[Josh Radnor]

It's a net positive. You have to evolve. Right. You don't just. You can't get with someone and it's all yes. And you need to be challenged a little bit or else you'll never. You'll never grow. Even this episode, it's funny, the storyline a little B. I wouldn't even call it a B split a C or D story runner. Like, is Lillian Marshall not agreeing on anything about this wedding? And again, to come back to the sort of gender flip idea Marshall wants this much. Sort of like, you know, Lily says, oh, you've been dreaming of, you know, Marshall's like, I've been dreaming about my wedding ever since I was. And she's like a little girl. You know what I mean? There's a little gender flip there. Marshall wants this way more traditional sort of froofy wedding and she clearly wants something a little less traditional out in the woods. And like this whole episode storyline is them not agreeing on shit. And yet he's still. His overall feeling that he says to Stuart is it should be effortless. And I think he's talking about the decision to go through this thing called life with this other person, even as he's at the same time not agreeing on any one thing with Stuart, I mean, with Lily, he's still able to say to Stuart. And you see, when they finally get to the wedding, there's like this little moment where they agree on one thing about the wedding planning, but that's not Marshall and Lily being in lockstep, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Right, right. Also, though, I think in some ways I don't think, like in later seasons, like, it doesn't seem like Lily Aldrin would want an outdoor way. Like, do you think?

[Josh Radnor]

I know we made her a little.

[Craig Thomas]

Bit crunchy hippie for her. Like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Like, I feel like Marshall would want like a Minnesota, like the high school football field in Minnesota or something.

[Josh Radnor]

You could have flipped it there.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you could have flipped it.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's true. We're still finding the characters. The one thing we knew for sure is that Lily's best friend is Claudia, that'll stand by.

[Craig Thomas]

Alec, I couldn't help but notice you're wearing a really nice shirt today. Do you want to talk us through that?

[Josh Radnor]

Hot top bro.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, hot top bro.

[Alec Lev]

Oh, my God. Okay, now we know what's going on Instagram now with this whole thing. This is. This is part of our new merch here. This is our college style how we made your. What is the show called? How we Made youe Mother.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that's what it's called.

[Alec Lev]

Shirt.

[Josh Radnor]

You're the producer of it.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You work on the show.

[Alec Lev]

It sounds like a good show. I don't have the. I should know this because I am the producer, but I believe by the time you're hearing this, we have already been to Wesleyan University and done a little live show there which will be in our feed. And we thought, okay, well, we're going to a college. Like a college style shirt. We've got another one that's just a logo. 10% of all the profits are going to how you make a difference, our campaign to support congenital heart disease research. Very proud of that. And I'm just going to. I'm just going to tell you this. I'm going to tell you that I'm going to. Kids. I get to say that. Kids. I'm going to tell you the incredible story of how we met our friends at Amplifier who are partnering with us to get some legendary how we made your mother merged you. While raising money for congenital heart disease research. Amplifier is helping us to do something good by offering huimium fans something great. So if you are a business with big orders to fulfill, Amplifier is there to help growing consumer brands and influencers create a unique experience for their customers during the fulfillment process. The link to their site is in our show notes. And if you name drop how we Made youe Mother, you'll get special pricing for your emerging brands program. If you want to get this merch, just go to how we made your mother.com click on store. You could also go. Go to how you get your merch.com and you go right to our Shopify location.

[Craig Thomas]

Alec, if we do any social media posts about the merch, which. Which I assume we will. I think Hot Top Bro is a good.

[Josh Radnor]

Hot top Bro.

[Craig Thomas]

It's what.

[Alec Lev]

It's fantastic.

[Craig Thomas]

It's.

[Alec Lev]

It's going up. It's going to be up. It's going to be up before people hear this. Because we record this now. It comes out in four weeks, but there will have been just exactly that.

[Josh Radnor]

That's fantastic. Awesome. Yes. And it raises money for a cause really close to my heart. Close to it's the doctor who is the expert in a condition my son has and also works just with the larger pediatric congenital heart population doing research to help kids like that. So yeah, thank you guys. Anyone who buys this merch, you're supporting something really and truly amazing that's very, very close to my heart, my family's heart.

[Craig Thomas]

So thank you, you and you become a walking ambassador for the show. So we're super grateful for that. Now, as tradition dictates, I'm going to read a wonderful letter that we received. Please write us letters, submit voice notes. Maybe we'll read your letter on the air or or hear your voice at the start of an episode. But just tell us what how I met your mother means to you or any other wonderful how I met your mother related things you want to share with, go to how we made your mother.com contact. Is that right, Alec? And then everything should be pretty clear after that. Okay, so this is a wonderful letter we received from Emily. It says December 2008. I was at the hospital delivery unit at the start of what was to be an almost 48 hour labor. My husband zipped out and returned with his laptop and season three of How I Met yout Mother, which he'd quickly picked up at Best Buy. We'd been watching together since season one. I'd been a Buffy fan and followed Alice and Hannigan. I'm sure we had already seen all of season three, but I remember us sitting on the hospital bed together, waiting and waiting and at least for a little while, pleasantly distracted with these great characters we knew so well. We'd also moved from New York a few years prior and reveled in the nostalgia for evenings with friends at our favorite bar, even while we looked toward our future. I started re watching this series this past January for the first time and came upon the new podcast on a subreddit. Such perfect timing. And imagine my delight as well to discover that I'd missed Most of season 8. My second child was an infant then. It's also possible I did watch it but just have no memory of it. So it's like a whole lost season for me. Refound thank you for the show. It has a ton of heart and its creativity knows no bounds. I'm grateful to you all for putting this out in the world, even if I'm pretty sure it is behind my continued overuse of the word awesome. You did good. Be well, Emily from Oberlin, Ohio. Thanks Emily.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you Emily. That's fantastic. I love when people have these core memories that have been formed around How I Met yout Mother. Our little show is part of the birth of her child and she remembers that. And that's great in a very meadow way. And not to do spoilers. There is an episode of How I Met yout Mother about distracting a pregnant woman who is in painful labor with storytelling. Right. There's an episode just spoilers. We are constantly trying to figure out whether we're doing spoilers of the show, but way later in the series there is an episode where that's the idea of the episode. And now we're hearing how Metro Mother fulfilled that role for her. So that's really cool.

[Craig Thomas]

I also think it's funny discovering like a lost treasure trove of How I Met yout Mother episodes like, but I'm not sure. I might have seen this, but I was. I had an instant and I. I have no memory of it.

[Josh Radnor]

Think about it. You didn't even know what your notes on this episode meant that you wrote last night. Josh. Yeah, now imagine, you know, it's basically a year of your life like that.

[Craig Thomas]

But it's funny because one thing that I ascribe to How I Met yout Mother superfans is an intense memory of every episode. So it's really funny that. That the kind of mom brain would eradicate this whole season in your head.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes. Happens to dads too, to be fair. Thank you, Emily. That's awesome. We're so. We're honored to have been a part of your. Of your labor. It's a weird sentence, but we are I am guilty.

[Craig Thomas]

Please acquit me. All sins off again.

[Alec Lev]

In New York City, How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master, is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by Jennifer John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we made your mother.com to sign up for our substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Want some merch? Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Order Craig Thomas debut [e-mail] novel and you can subscribe to my Dead Father's Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will, in fact, dance.

[Craig Thomas]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?