How I Met the Roof | S1E2 "Purple Giraffe"

Summary

Summary of "How I Met the Roof | S1E2 'Purple Giraffe'" – How We Made Your Mother Podcast

Hosts: Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas
Release Date: March 31, 2025
Podcast: How We Made Your Mother
Episode: How I Met the Roof | S1E2 "Purple Giraffe"

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Introduction

In the second episode of the podcast series How We Made Your Mother, hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve deep into the intricacies of the "How I Met Your Mother" (HIMYM) episode titled "Purple Giraffe." This episode of the podcast provides an insightful, behind-the-scenes look at the creative process, thematic elements, and character developments that make HIMYM a beloved and enduring show.

Overview of "Purple Giraffe"

"Purple Giraffe" serves as the second episode of HIMYM, following the pilot. Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby) and Craig Thomas (co-creator) discuss the challenges and successes of crafting this pivotal episode. The episode is significant for its attempt to solidify the show's identity beyond the pilot by integrating new characters and introducing recurring motifs.

Notable Quote:

Josh Radnor: "It's time – much like the older, wiser narrator Ted does in the show – to look back on this adventure..." [03:10]

Production Insights

Craig Thomas reflects on the pressure of ensuring that episode two lived up to the pilot’s success. The transition from pilot to the second episode came with the challenge of expanding the narrative and integrating Robin into the friend group convincingly.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas: "Watching this episode, I felt, first of all, I really liked it. I really liked watching this episode..." [05:02]
Josh Radnor: "When I watched it, I kind of felt like it's pilot part two. It's actually a two parter of a pilot." [06:15]

The hosts discuss the strategic decision to divide the episode into three parties over three days, maintaining the show's dynamic and avoiding the pitfalls of typical party-centric sitcom episodes. They highlight the collaborative efforts in the writer's room to ensure the episode retained HIMYM’s unique time-bending and fast-paced storytelling style.

Notable Quote:

Craig Thomas: "We did hire a writing staff, we got in a room. We tried. It was..." [06:43]

Themes and Symbolism

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the symbolic elements introduced in "Purple Giraffe," such as the titular giraffe, blue French horn, and other iconic items. These symbols serve as recurring motifs throughout the series, enriching the narrative tapestry of the show.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas: "We wanted this sort of vast array, this sort of menagerie of visual things and distinctive, memorable things." [47:20]
Josh Radnor: "There’s just these items that are so associated with the show. Pineapples, I think." [49:22]

The hosts draw parallels between these symbols and classic literary references, notably the influence of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby on the party dynamics within the episode. Ted’s attempts to orchestrate events mirror Gatsby’s lavish parties aimed at reuniting with Daisy.

Notable Quote:

Craig Thomas: "In the Great Gatsby, he's just throwing these huge lavish parties... Ted's going to throw these parties and it's going to lure in Robin." [07:17]

Character Development

Ted Mosby’s character evolution is a focal point of the discussion. "Purple Giraffe" explores Ted’s optimistic yet flawed nature, emphasizing his need to control and plan his destiny. This episode showcases Ted’s generous spirit and sets the stage for his ongoing quest for love and fulfillment.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor: "I found myself being like, nah, I like this guy. I'm on his side. I want him to get the girl." [25:20]
Craig Thomas: "He could have gone a petty way with it. And when he said, let's wait... That's reasonable for him to say." [59:34]

The interaction between Ted and Robin introduces a complex dynamic rooted in attachment theory, with Ted displaying an anxious attachment style and Robin an avoidant one. This interplay adds depth to their relationship, setting up long-term character arcs.

Notable Quote:

Josh Radnor: "Ted has an anxious attachment style and Robin has an avoidant attachment style." [50:43]

Reception and Fan Stories

The episode also touches upon fan interactions and the enduring legacy of HIMYM. Hosts share heartfelt stories from listeners who have incorporated HIMYM elements into significant life events, such as weddings and family traditions.

Notable Quotes:

Craig Thomas: "This one is from Jo in Birmingham, UK. She says our whole wedding was himyum themed." [62:40]
Josh Radnor: "I think couples that watch How I met your mother together stay together." [66:29]

These testimonials highlight the show's profound impact, reinforcing its status not just as a comedy but as a cultural touchstone that resonates deeply with its audience.

Reflections from Hosts

Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas offer personal reflections on rewatching the episode years later. They discuss how the episode balances humor with profound emotional moments, making it both entertaining and meaningful.

Notable Quotes:

Josh Radnor: "It was pretty good." [07:43]
Craig Thomas: "Ordinarily honest reflection on their creation has made this an enlightening listen." [Implied throughout]

They express gratitude towards the entire production team, acknowledging the collaborative effort that brought HIMYM to life and ensured its lasting relevance.

Notable Quote:

Craig Thomas: "It's an Emmy-winning combination of our cinematographer, Chris LaFontaine and our set designer, Steve Olson. So big thanks." [36:37]

Conclusion

"Purple Giraffe," as dissected in this podcast episode, serves as a microcosm of what made How I Met Your Mother a beloved series. Through meticulous production, rich symbolism, and deep character exploration, this episode exemplifies the show's ability to blend humor with heartfelt storytelling. Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of the creative processes and thematic intentions behind one of HIMYM's foundational episodes, celebrating its enduring legacy in pop culture.

Closing Quote:

Josh Radnor: "I have this ongoing argument with my, my dad that's been going on for decades... Shows are characters who have some sort of central defect of their character who have to kind of transcend..." [35:39]

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Additional Notes

• Fan Contributions: The episode includes letters and stories from fans who have integrated HIMYM into their personal lives, showcasing the show's significant cultural footprint.

• Behind-the-Scenes Details: Hosts reveal tidbits about set design, prop creation (such as the purple giraffe), and the challenges of maintaining the show's unique narrative style.

• Thematic Depth: Discussions touch on psychological theories, such as attachment styles and Jungian concepts, illustrating the show's nuanced approach to character development and storytelling.

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of "Purple Giraffe" as explored in the How We Made Your Mother podcast, providing both fans and newcomers with valuable insights into the show's enduring charm and creative genius.

Transcript

[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Josh Radnor]

Hi, my name's Dom. I'm from Manchester originally but I live in London now. And How I Met yout Mother is one of the biggest parts of my life. It is my favorite show of all time. I even have a ducky tie tattoo on my arm. But it's also been a huge bond for me and my best friend Jamie. I'm getting married next year and I.

[Craig Thomas]

Used How I've Met yout Mother to.

[Josh Radnor]

Ask him to be my best man.

[Craig Thomas]

By getting a cameo from Ranjeet which was just so special. I just want to say thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

For creating the show because it's absolutely amazing and I will continue to rewatch.

[Craig Thomas]

And rewatch and rewatch it until God knows when. It's fantastic. It's fantastic.

[Josh Radnor]

Is there something moving about hearing all the different accents? Like to realize how globally the show just went out to? You forget that. Cause it was like we were on this little soundstage, you know, in west la and then the show just gets beamed all over the world and all these people find it. It's unbelievable.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. A couple years after the show went off the air, it won this award at the Monte Carlo Film Like TV and Film Festival for being the most watched comedy in the world. It was a purely like metrics based award. It wasn't not based on the quality. It was just the most people watched your show. Here's an award. And it was. That's what it was for.

[Josh Radnor]

It's like the Golden Globe Box Office award.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, exactly. It was purely commercial that award. But it was, it was the most watched show internationally at this intern. Yeah. As measured.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow. Well, thanks. Thanks so much for that. We love hearing these. Keep sending them in.

[Craig Thomas]

That's great. Is There any world where we could get that cameo sent to us and we could post it in the show notes because I would love to see Marshall Minesh doing a Ranjit based cameo. I did not know who's doing those.

[Josh Radnor]

Hello, Jamie.

[Craig Thomas]

Hello, you. Oh, yes, yes, you guessed that right. This is Van Dick from your favorite Jo.

[Josh Radnor]

Have I met your mother?

[Craig Thomas]

Sam is asking you, would you please.

[Josh Radnor]

Be his best man in his wedding?

[Craig Thomas]

Try to make every moment of being together legend.

[Josh Radnor]

Wait for it. Wait for it. There he. I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Hello. Welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother. I am Josh Radner.

[Craig Thomas]

I am here with Craig Thomas, co.

[Josh Radnor]

Creator of the Thomas, Craig Thomas. I keep forgetting. I keep spacing on the name, but.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, there was a lot of people on that show.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, we didn't interact with us. Craig Thomas, my dear friend, we are going through every single episode of How I met your Mother and we are figuring out what the hell was this thing. We made that through most of our 30s for nearly a decade. We're having a blast. Are you having fun?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah, big time.

[Josh Radnor]

Show it. We'll show it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yay. I don't know. Can I go again? Can I get another take? We used to do a bunch of takes on him. We would do seven or eight sometimes.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And then Pam would sometimes say, like, do it now. Do it like professional actors, guys, you know what?

[Craig Thomas]

I used to love that you would say sometimes you would say, I know I've been good other times. I've been good. I've done good acting other times.

[Josh Radnor]

The shame of a bad take.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I'd say, listen, I was good other times.

[Craig Thomas]

You would look around the entire stage and sort of address the crew, I've been good other times. And it will happen again. It may not be happening right now. That's all happening.

[Josh Radnor]

It didn't happen just. We all know it didn't just happen now.

[Craig Thomas]

It didn't just.

[Josh Radnor]

But, you know, historically I have it in there.

[Craig Thomas]

The odds are I'll be good again.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, today, Craig, we are discussing episode two, Purple Giraffe. Purple giraffe.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a. Watching this episode, I felt, first of all, I really liked it. I really liked watching this episode. I really liked it too. I felt I re experienced the stress of the pressure of it needing to be good. And I will say that I remember having this fear the whole time that it wasn't good enough. And that we were. Cause the pilot came out great. I think I really. And I remember there's this pressure of, like, okay, the conventional wisdom on an episode two is you're supposed to kind of redo the pilot and kind of move the story forward and show another couple of moves.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

And I remember being hard on myself. I think Carter and I both felt like, ah, did that one come out as great as we wanted it to? I just remember having a little heaviness. Like, was it the pressure of wanting it to be great? And watching it again now, so many years later, I was like, that's really good. That did those two things. It redid the pilot and moved the story forward and had this big task of getting Robin plausibly integrated into the group because she had not interacted with anybody but Ted in that first episode. And I just felt myself aware of all of those challenges again watching it. How did it feel?

[Josh Radnor]

When I watched it, I kind of felt like, it's pilot part two. It's actually a two parter of a pilot.

[Craig Thomas]

It very much felt. It almost starts that way. It kind of starts like, where was I? And you're right back in. And you recap. Yeah, it did feel like the second half of a two parter, which is great. Which also kind of takes the pressure off it. I never realized how much it plays that way, actually, until rewatching it again now.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Do you remember cracking this episode? So the pilot is just you and Carter. Right. And then you get, you know, you get people in the room, friends you trust, joke punch ups, all that. But this one, you had a writing staff.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You know what I found myself thinking of is that first album thing. I feel like you talk about this a lot, Josh, where a band has its entire life to do the first album. Its entire life history leads up to that first album, and then they have to turn around a second album in a year or two or whatever the timeframe is. And we had our whole life, kind of all these months at 2, to produce and make that pilot as good as we can make it. And then all of a sudden it's like, all right, you're off to the races. The show's picked up. What's episode two? And it felt like that challenge of like, wait, we put everything into that pilot. How do we. How do we bring this one around? How do we make it anywhere? Nearest good?

[Josh Radnor]

What's that? First order is in We. How many do we get? 9? 12. What's the first order?

[Craig Thomas]

I think we got picked up for 13. And then you're aiming for a back nine. You're aiming.

[Josh Radnor]

You're aiming for 13 plus the back nine.

[Craig Thomas]

13 episodes. That mean they can cancel you at any point if they hate it, if it's not doing well, but they, yeah, it's 13. And then you're going for that back nine pickup. And that was. I remember that being a big deal.

[Josh Radnor]

But it wasn't just episode two. It was episodes two through 13.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, I just remember that feeling. And we did. We hired a writing staff, we got in a room. We tried. It was. So this episode was our first moment of opening it up to create a story for the show with this group of people who were wonderful. We had a great writer's room, but we were, you know, we were figuring it out. I remember it being hard and we thought. I remember one of the things that sparked the idea for this episode was the Great Gatsby. That idea in the Great Gatsby, like any, like any CBS sitcom in 2005, we were mostly working off the Great Fitzgerald, but we. I remember the idea coming in part from the feeling is in Great Gatsby, he's just throwing these huge lavish parties, hoping that Daisy will come to one, right? He's just hoping that by having this opulent mansion, it will be like a magnet that calls her over from her green light across the water in Long Island. By the way, I grew up on one of the eggs. I grew up on what is East Egg on Long island in Port Washington. And we think West Egg was great in that. There's a little haggling about that between various towns in Long Island, But I'm standing by that. I grew up in East Egg, not the fancy part, I will say that very lower middle class kind of upbringing. But there Gatsby was in the fancy part on the water in Sands Point, Port Washington, throwing these parties, hoping to lure Daisy across the way. And I felt. Feel like that was part of the idea of these parties. Ted's going to throw these parties and it's going to lure in Robin. And that was sort of the literary. The little literary spark that's so great.

[Josh Radnor]

I had no idea. I wish I would have known that. That would have been something that would really have delighted me. Even though I never read the Great Gatsby when I was supposed to. But about five years ago, I read it for the first time and I. You know, when you read something and you feel like you've discovered it, I was like, has anyone heard of this book, the Great Gatsby, it's unbelievable. I was like, you guys really should read this. I really did think it was an incredible book. But. So I'm curious. So you and. You and Carter, obviously, you create these characters. You have this thing going. You've been ordered for 13 more episodes at Le. Well, you have this task ahead of you. What did the writers. What did you stumble upon in the room for episode two? That felt really useful. Like any eureka moments or things that kind of made the story open up for you guys?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think the idea. Because I think we were something in. We were in the realm of, like, Ted throws a big party and it goes wrong, and it's a big party episode, and it felt we were. I remember feeling very afraid of that because party scenes are hard to write, they're hard to shoot. If the whole episode takes place at one big party, there's that kind of, like, loss of energy, right? There's this diffused energy. There's all these extras. How do you make it feel like a hidden episode? Like other sitcoms, you do a party episode, and it's all one big scene, mostly. And people pop in this room, pop in that room. I was worried. It didn't really feel like our show or our pilot, which was jumping around in time. Lots of short scenes. Cut, cut, cut. So I think the spark was it's three parties. It's three parties that sort of take place over three days. And within that, we'll jump around a lot, and we'll find ways to show that we're not just doing, like, it's a sitcom episode with a party, and it's mostly set there. I remember being very afraid of that. Afraid we'd lose energy and seem more linear and traditional if we did a party episode in episode two. I remember always, even once we got the idea of chopping up into three parties, I remember I never quite shook the fear that, ah, this is just gonna be a wacky party episode. How do we make it different? But right away In Act 1, there's a bunch of playing with time, right? There's, like, the fantasy of how the party's gonna go. And we see Ted's fantasy, and it's voiced over and Ted's voice is doing all the voices. It's great. Into Robin's voice and, you know, et cetera. Robin says, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, as Ted's voiceover says that. And then Barney interrupts and hijacks, and it becomes Barney's fantasy. And Ted turns to Camera breaks the fourth wall and says, barney, let's like, that was the moment in act one of that episode that I. And rewatching it, I really enjoyed that because I was like, that's the moment where it became a Himyum episode.

[Josh Radnor]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back. Membership means more with American Express Business Gold. Earn four times Membership Rewards points in your top two eligible spending categories every month, including eligible U.S. advertising purchases in select media and U.S. purchases at restaurants, including takeout and delivery. What are you waiting for? Get the card that flexes with your spending every month. Terms and points cap apply. Learn [e-mail] Business Gold AmEx Business Gold card built for business by American Express. Let's talk about something we all need, okay? Online privacy and security. Whether you're working remotely, traveling, or just browsing from your favorite cafe, your data should stay yours. And that's where Surfshark comes in. Craig, tell us, what is Surfshark?

[Craig Thomas]

I'm gonna tell you just off the top of my head what Surfshark is. Okay, go for it. Just spitballing. Surfshark is a VPN that keeps your Internet activity private and secure, protecting you from hackers, trackers and prying eyes.

[Josh Radnor]

I hate those guys.

[Craig Thomas]

They're the worst. It lets you access content from anywhere in the world by changing your virtual location. Want to stream shows that aren't available in your country? I met your mother. No problem. Need to bypass restrictions when you travel. Done.

[Josh Radnor]

The best part. One account covers unlimited devices so you can protect your phone, laptop, tablet, whatever you use to stay connected. And if you ever need help, their 24,7 customer support has got you covered.

[Craig Thomas]

I just like to call them to chat sometimes. So why. So why wait? Josh, why wait? Why are you waiting?

[Josh Radnor]

I'm not.

[Craig Thomas]

Take control of your online. Yeah, please stop waiting. Stop it. Take control of your online experience. Today, head to surfshark.com to sign up and get four extra months of surf Shark. Give it a try. There's a 30 day money back guarantee, so you've got nothing to lose. And now we say one more thing that's funny.

[Josh Radnor]

Your mother joke. And now back to the show. And that's. And that's another interesting thing about the show. While it's a very hard on its sleeves, sincere show, it also had this. So many meta elements. Like it was a TV show that was aware it was a TV show and it was always like playing with structure and dicing it up. And saying. Or it was also aware of its own storytelling more than being a TV show. You know, like, okay, we're going to show you what he's clearly just saying at the bar, but we're going to, we're going to kind of flip it on its head and someone's going to interrupt someone else's. They're just gonna like hijack someone's story in the middle of the story. I don't know. It was quite clever in that way.

[Craig Thomas]

I loved that moment. I loved. I forgot about Ted breaking the fourth wall. I forgot about, like you turn the camera and you just start talking to Barney through the TV screen.

[Josh Radnor]

I forgot about the lip syncing where Ted is. It's his voice, you know, with all the other characters. I love that so much.

[Jordana Radnor]

Josh, I just wanna ask you a question about this show. So you get the pilot, you're on it, you're actually making a pilot. Then the show gets picked up. Now your life, you know, you hear stories out here of people who like, move from across the country to be in this TV show they got, and then it gets canceled a couple of episodes in or you give up. You're waiting, you know, your server job, you now have a show. Do you take that in? Can you not think of it in that way? And do you just have to nose to the grindstone? I'm going to do this next episode and we're going to hope for the best. What were you feeling now that maybe your life was changing quite a bit?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's tricky because you don't want to pop the champagne until the champagne. Until you can afford the champagne. You know, I do remember I had my first agent. She signed me right out of grad school at nyu and I lived in New York for a while, but I was generally living mostly in la. And then I go back to New York in the summer and do a play. Like I was a little bit by coast wise, mostly live in New York. And I had done a bunch of pilots and she always got me what's called a relocation fee. Because she said, no, he lives in New York. You have to pay to relocate him to la. She always built it into my deal. And she told me on how I met your mother. She had negotiated for me with this deal maker before and she tried to get the relocation fee and the dealmaker said, rhonda, we know he lives in la. Knock it off. Like they weren't gonna. They weren't gonna give it to him. Yeah. So I was still in this $750 a month sublet. I was subletting from my friend Megan, a college friend of mine. I didn't move until second season, I think. So I kept things real modest. We lived right around. My best friends, lived across the street. We lived right by the cbs, like, main kind of corporate building where they shoot the prices. Right. And all these other, like, Television City. Is that what it's called on Beverly?

[Craig Thomas]

Television City, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And do you remember this, Craig? They put up a huge How I Met yout Mother. It was the lip couch. It was me on the lip couch with the other four behind me. And they put it up and they kept it up the entire season. They didn't take it down. So I was always walking on Beverly Boulevard with my friends. And it was just like this enormous mural of us on the side of this building on Beverly Boulevard.

[Craig Thomas]

I didn't know you lived right under this, basically. That's really funny.

[Josh Radnor]

So that was one of the things where life just felt a little like there was this. This, like, tincture of weirdness, like. Like a solution of weirdness that got dropped into whatever I was living in. And suddenly it was like, this is a little bit weirder. And then my friend Amy was like, oh, I forgot that, like, people are going to watch the show. We're going to go out with you, and it's going to add a whole other element to our lives of people coming up and saying things to you or wanting a picture or whatever. And it wasn't out of control back then. It was still. We were finding our feet. So I definitely had this feeling that there was the potential of my life getting kind of disorienting and strange and fun. You know, I remember Julie, who was one of our. The CBS executive. Julie, who is great. Hello, Julie, if you're listening. But Julie, I remember the. The premiere party saying how she said, how are you feeling? And I said, I'm nervous. And she said, why? And I said, I'm just nervous for people to, like, know who I am. And she said. I said, what's it going to be like? And she said, people are going to want pictures and you'll get good tables at restaurants. It's not that bad, you know, she was just like, it's fine.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really funny. And she may have left out some stuff there.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, she did leave out some stuff. But I definitely had the sense, like. Like I said, I got fired from my first pilot. The second one got canceled very quickly after a couple episodes. The third one didn't get picked up by NBC. I'd had everything happen to me but a hit show. So I kind of felt like. I don't know why I felt this way, but I was like, well, the odds are such. And I had a good feeling about it, like I said, at the end of the pilot. So I knew something was good and cool about the show. What was strange was we shot the pilot in March, something like that. I think we shot the pilot in March, and then you end up shooting this in July. August.

[Craig Thomas]

August, probably, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But it's really. It's a couple days later. But you've had a couple months in between.

[Craig Thomas]

You had a couple months, you found out it's picked up in May, and then you start shooting in maybe early August or something. Whatever it was. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So, you know, it was like, kind of like, okay, we're back. Isn't this cool? But I was talking to a friend of mine last night who has a really cool theater opportunity in New York, and he said, I'm nervous about going on the dopamine rollercoaster when it gets announced. And everyone's saying, this is so great and how exciting, and I just want to stay balanced. And I told him, I said, I've had a lot of cool things happen in my career, and I was so afraid of seeming arrogant or out of touch or cocky in front of my friends who weren't working, that I didn't allow myself to enjoy things. And I think that I. I had this fear of enjoying it too much. Like, I. I was really treading very delicately. Like, it was almost like, don't. Don't scare the. The beast of. Of showbiz. That will take it all away. You know, it giveth and it taketh away. Right. So I was very, like, I. I was tiptoeing into it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. That's how I am on planes. I'm like, if I'm too comfortable, it's this thing going down.

[Josh Radnor]

Your anxiety is keeping the plane.

[Craig Thomas]

I need you. My anxiety keeps keeping it afloat. I remember Josh being God. I feel like I have so many questions off of what you just said, including, when did you start letting yourself believe this was going to go a minute, which is a good question. I don't know what my podcast.

[Josh Radnor]

I think.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I know it took a while. I remember being nervous because I really re. Experienced some nerves rewatching Purple Giraffe. A ton of delight, too. But I remember the anxiety. One of the anxieties was, I hope Josh and the cast like this script. They all signed up to do this pilot. They all signed years of their lives away to us based on this pilot. It got picked up in May. You guys go have a summer while we're, like, writing, writing, writing, trying to create, get ahead of the beast. There's this giant Pac man that's going to start eating up episodes 2, 3, 4, 5. You need to just start making episodes like you've never made episodes before. And I remember that's going to be the first one. Everybody's going to read. All the people that believed in us, all the people at the studio, all the people network, but most importantly, the cast and you, Josh. Like, you and I always had a great bond and I knew you were a writer. And, like, I remember being nervous for you to read this motherfucker. I remember, like, I hope he likes this script.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I. I will say I have a very strong memory of loving the script. And I think I said this in the last episode, but I was delighted that the DNA of the pilot seemed to be very much baked into the second episode. And I was like, oh, I'm actually on a cool. I'm actually on Pulp Fiction meets say Anything or whatever. However we were describing it, like, there was something of a relief. Not that just that it was funny, but that the playful, inventive storytelling was still present.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I just rewatched Reservoir Dogs where Tarantino will be all over this podcast because he apparently loves How Much yout Mother and we're such enormous fans on the record.

[Josh Radnor]

Came up to me. I think I told you. Came up to me at a. An event. And it was.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, that's just one of the ultimate honors. He's amazing and such a huge influence on how much mother his work. I rewatched. I had Covid, and I rewatched a lot of Tarantino and rewatching Reservoir Dogs. There's that bit in Reservoir Dogs where the Undercover Cop. Spoilers about Reservoir Dogs. The undercover Cop, Tim Roth, who you don't know for a lot of the movie, is that, sorry if I just ruined the movie. You're seeing him learn his story that he's gonna tell to other criminals as he's trying to infiltrate the group of criminals where he's memorizing. And he starts off with just being handed sides, like an audition, like a sc. He's handed a scene by his mentor cop saying, learn this monologue. It's a story about a job that went wrong. Or it's a story. It's called the Commode Story. It's the stressful moment where he has all these drugs in a bag. And he walks in and there's cops in the bathroom. And you see him learning and memorizing the story and watching Purple Giraffe, where Ted is planning out how his story's gonna go, how the party's gonna go, and you're jumping in and around, you know, breaking the fourth wall. We're playing with it. It reminded me a lot of that. And I was like, boy, Reservoir Dogs was really. I think that was as much of Tarantino's films. That was a big influence, I think, on How Met yout Mother just because it hit us at such a good moment. I know, Carter.

[Josh Radnor]

It's fun. When you're a writer, you don't even know what influences you're pulling from. You just. It's all in there, and you're kind of.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, there's. I forgot about the Gatsby thing. Marshall at one point says, hey, Gatsby. Like, he addresses Ted that way. Like at party two or three, as it's getting maniacal, all these parties, he says something like, so, Gatsby, what are you going to do? And I was like, right, we threw that in there as a nod to the fact that, like, no one probably knew why the fuck he was calling him Gatsby. You had to really, like, great Gatsby to make that particular parallel, I think. But it was.

[Josh Radnor]

This is something I did want to say about this episode, but when Marshall holds up his law book and he's like, has anyone seen. What is it? Like, tort law, constitutional, whatever, in the years. Yeah, yeah. I love that you say the whole name, and it's like, he's a good student, or he wants to be. He's trying to, like, get through law school. And it reminded me of something I just really liked about the show is like, a lot of shows were trying to be cool and have cool characters. And then you had Big Bang, which wasn't on yet, but it was about to be. That was just all about nerd culture and really, like, went deep into the heart of that. How I Met yout Mother was like, a cool show that was also nerdy in its own way. Like, it allowed for. It was almost like, at my school, it was not socially a problem to be, like, both a valedictorian and super popular. Or, like, you could. You could be in honors classes and also be. It wasn't frowned upon. It was like, I kind of feel like How I Met your Mother is like. It was both popular, and it was also, like, a nerdy valedictorian at the same time. Not that all valedictorians are nerdy. Forgive me out there listening, but. But I love that it wore both its heart and its brain on its sleeve on some level.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it did. I love that Marshall was trying to be a really good law student, and his big problem was that Lily just wanted to have sex with him all the time. I was like, this is his problem in this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

And I thought, but it's such a simple B story. It's such a good story.

[Craig Thomas]

It's such a simple B story. And it pays itself off when he kind of gives up on the whole thing after he ruins it for Ted. And he's just like, all right, let's just go have sex and then let's go get drunk. Let's go get drunk. At the end, he's still got a B minus. I love Sagat, but I love future Ted popping in there like he's still got a B minus. He really was quite good, considering he didn't really work out.

[Jordana Radnor]

Craig, you and I have shared a lot of comedy loves and influences. I know Monty Python is definitely one of them. We've talked about it a lot. And the idea of very intelligent silliness.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordana Radnor]

I think is crucially important to you, to your writing, to your view of comedy.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah. I mean, an incredible amount of intelligent effort put into something incredibly stupid is my favorite comedy. That's my favorite version. It's one of my favorite things in the world. And that sort of speaks to Ted a little bit in this episode because he's constructing something completely stupid. He throws three parties in a row. It's so clear. Even Robin. By the end, I was like, robin must know. But it's this glimpse under the hood for Ted. That's the other thing I really liked about the episode. We got to know Barney a little more. We got to know Marshall and Lily. I loved the boundaries joke. Or Marjorie and Lilly are having this very sexual talk, and you cut wide that says, guys, boundaries.

[Josh Radnor]

It comes back really nicely in the college flashback. I don't know when that was, but that guy.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah, totally. And it plays off the bunk bed joke in the pilot. And it's just like, it's so great. It just defines that trifecta's dynamic. So great. It's also a great two word joke, which is hard to do. Guys, boundaries. I know. Deep thoughts. Jack Handy was like, he was always trying to make the fewest words be the punchline. And I was like, ah, two word joke. That's good. But I just Found that more than anything, Purple Giraffe is getting deeper into Ted's. The great things about Ted and the insanity about Ted and the idea that he can plan all of this. He's this unbelievably boundless optimist. There's an early moment where they're trying to interpret, I think, Robin's silence of not having called. And Ted says something like, I'm gonna spin this as good. And he has no reason to be spinning as good. There's no. It's. At least it's neutral or bad. It's not good. That she hasn't gone through talking about is literally, they're not good. And I just loved him so much at that moment because he's. That might as well be his mission. I'm gonna spin this as good. The whole story. Future Ted is telling his kids this story and spinning it as mostly good. Even the hard parts, like the whole. It felt like the motto of the whole series in some ways. And there were a few of those in here. Did you find? I found very. I really loved Ted in this episode, start to finish. And the moment where Ted is so generous. He could have said goodbye to Robin forever up on that roof. The first rooftop scene. That was how I met the roof. The first Ted, Robin, rooftop scene, rooftop kiss. All that was like, oh, my God. Right? That's all in here. And then at the end, he can just let her go forever and hide from this embarrassing experience. But instead, because he's such a good guy, he says, or, you know, tonight. We can hang out tonight. Cause he sees that she's vulnerable and alone, and that's how she's brought into the group through this magnanimous act from Ted. I just loved Ted so much in that moment. I think it's a great Ted episode, this whole one. How did it feel rewatching it to you? Sort of like thinking about that whole story. Ted is carrying that episode in a great way.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, definitely. I remember feeling the kind of weight of it on my shoulders. Like, you know what? There's certain sensory or somatic memories that I have. I remember, and it made me laugh when I watched it. But when he's running to get to the convenience mart or whatever, where Robin is reporting on the kids, and he runs into frame and he realizes he's on screen.

[Craig Thomas]

Made me laugh out loud.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's so funny. Looks right into camera.

[Craig Thomas]

For the second time in the episode, it breaks the fourth wall. Looks right into camera. And that earlier joke he had, it was great.

[Josh Radnor]

But I remember you know, I remember them sweating you up. You know, they're just misting you. And then I really like when the little kid says, you're sweaty. When he tries to talk to the little kid.

[Craig Thomas]

That was really funny. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And how the little kid also seemed like, I'm very claustrophobic. I would not do well in that booth. But the little kid seemed totally fine, which for some reason, reason made me laugh. Like, he didn't seem put out by being in there.

[Craig Thomas]

He's very chill.

[Josh Radnor]

But I remember, I remember that scene very well with Kobe, for some reason, shooting that scene. And just like, running. Ted had to do a lot of running, you know, on the New York street. Like he. Throughout the nine years. I remember. Yeah, I remember running. I remember. And sometimes. And at some point, maybe it was because I was getting older. I was like, oh, yeah, you should stretch, stretch before these running scenes. Like, you're gonna wake up if you just, like, bust into, like, a sprint five times in a row. But, yeah, I mean, I, I'm having an experience of. Because I remember this is, like, quite vulnerable to share, but I've actually talked about this before, so I learned very quickly, like, don't go on the Internet and read comments. Right. But I remember after Purple Giraffe came on, and this is where I, I, I gave myself this rule because I, I saw, oh, people are saying really nice things about the me. And, oh, isn't this delightful? And then Jason used to say this. He goes, he said, I don't read. Because you have to admit, at some point, you're actually looking for the mean thing. Oh, you're looking for the mean thing. And you. And it's just. It's horrible to do to yourself. Right? But I remember seeing some comments where people said, I like the pilot, but what is this guy just a stalker now? Is he just going to, like, keep stalking this woman? And they were really kind of tough on him, where I thought it was like, like, no, he's like, this is this. I almost felt like they didn't understand the essential goofy charm of the guy they wanted him to be. You know, everyone, you know, has opinions. But then someone said this was the favorite thing I've ever read about myself online. Someone said, I'm trying to figure out what it is I don't like about this guy, meaning me. I said, I think I. I think I finally figured it out. His face.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

So then you. You go back to work and you're.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, what do you do with that note?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, you think that 8 million people just said that. Instead of one guy. Yeah. Who?

[Craig Thomas]

Instead of, you know. Your dad.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, my dad controlling me.

[Craig Thomas]

That was a real asshole comment. Yeah, right. You. You hear that as if it's everybody saying.

[Josh Radnor]

You hear it as if it's everybody. And so I'm watching the show with a 20 year kind of. I feel like I'm having this experience of being kinder to the younger me who. I mean, it is so much like Older Ted. Looking back on Younger Ted, Older Ted has so much more grace and perspective than Younger Ted does. So I watched this episode and I watched it with Jordana, and I just, like, this show is really funny and sweet and smart, and I was good. I was good at this. And it's been very healing for me. Not that I didn't think I was. I had some sense that I was doing the job that I was asked to do, do, and I was doing it as well as I could. I knew how to do. But I actually found myself liking Ted a lot more than I thought I would. I don't. Maybe. Maybe he becomes more annoying or something, but I found myself being like, nah, I like this guy. I'm on his side. I want him to get the girl. I want him to have the life of his dreams. I was very. Again, you do a little mini fake out where you. You have again, like that. And I. And I also was like, Kobe and I had really good chemistry. I was really delighted by that.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, very much so.

[Josh Radnor]

The. You know when he says, I can turn it off, I can turn it off. I can. I. It doesn't. It's turned off. Doesn't he, like, click his heart or something? He turns it off before he kisses her. And it's just like, you feel that there's like real heat. And she's attracted to him and this, this. And then he's like, I can't. I can't do it. I can't turn it off. And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you.

[Craig Thomas]

New York City and now commercials. End of commercials. Back to show. There's so many things that I liked about Ted in that scene, he confessed to the completely insane thing he had done. She's somewhat charmed by it. She also admits that she's into him, right? She says, you're not imagining it. You're not imagining it, right? And then he plays that, right? And they kiss. And that was a sexy scene between you guys. There was heat in that scene. I really liked it. And I was like, I mean, you worry things Won't carry over from the pilot. You had such chemistry in the pilot. Will we be able to preserve that in episode two? Big time. And I almost forgot how intense that kiss was, how good that kiss was. That was a good rooftop kiss. That was a magical New York City skyline behind you guys kiss. That was like. I almost forgot how great that was. That was the big moment of the episode. It was almost like I forgot how big that, how important that moment was. And then Ted is self knowing enough to say, there's no off switch, I can't do it. And then it's the easiest thing in the world for him to never see her again, but he sees she's lonely. And then he extends that invitation to essentially come join the group. And I just. There's all of those moments. There's so many moments in that whole sequence up on the roof and so many things for Ted to play there. He's the hero. He's incredibly generous. And it ends on this note. Ted's the one who makes Robin be part of the group. That's why we have the TV show. We have. That's why the team is the team. He brought her in and I loved it. I think you really love Ted. And about that stuff about is he a stalker or whatever, I would just say that what great TV show has normal, well balanced people making great decisions all the time?

[Josh Radnor]

Where's the show? I have this ongoing argument with my, my dad that's been going on for decades. My dad, he watches things through this incredibly like, moral lens. So he watches things, he goes, why would these people screw up their lives so bad? And I'm like, dad, so you can have something to watch, right? Do you want to see?

[Craig Thomas]

There's no story.

[Josh Radnor]

Just nailing it all the time. Just like making all the right decisions. Like, yeah, that's not a good show. Shows are characters who have some sort of central defect of their character who have to kind of transcend, grow up and learn and, and go and move somewhere. We need. You actually have to start people kind of in a, in somewhat of a tough place generally.

[Jordana Radnor]

A couple things that I'll just point out. We've answered some questions that we got, by the way, and I have some factoids for you. But a lot of people asked about the roof, whether or not it was an exterior, which I think goes to Chris LaFontaine and to the set designers and Steve Olson.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, we had an amazing team. It's not that that is on a. That is on a soundstage. That's on stage 22 in West LA and on the Fox lot. And it looks great. It looks like. I love that people were fooled by that. That's the Emmy winning combination of our cinematographer, Chris LaFontaine and our set designer, Steve Olson. So big thanks.

[Josh Radnor]

And also even little subtle things, like there were always fans, but kind of from far away, so there'd be like the ever so slightest breeze moving through.

[Jordana Radnor]

You know, as I was watching the credits, I was like, wow, A lot of these people just stayed on the show the entire time, which is, I think, pretty incredible.

[Craig Thomas]

Josh was speaking to that earlier and just saying, like, it's. All of these people deserve this credit. What the show continues to mean to people because it's so immersive. It's an immersive universe because everyone killed it.

[Jordana Radnor]

Everyone had flannel pajam. Raz would like us to know that the little boy in the claw machine, if you don't know, played SJ in the Blind side. His name is J Head. Went on to a couple of. Couple of films.

[Craig Thomas]

All right, good job.

[Jordana Radnor]

And, oh, I just wanted to say that I also love that it's funny that you were worried that it would feel like a contained party episode or. I felt like what was great is it kind of went farce very quickly. It felt very big to me, actually, that it accord over. I mean, you have this feeling of, you know, Ted's. You know, you're wearing these wet socks. Like something is definitely awful happening right here, right now. You cannot quite get out of it, but you're stuck in this sort of hell of your own making.

[Craig Thomas]

It's almost Groundhog Day, right? It's like the same, right? Yeah.

[Jordana Radnor]

And what occurred to me was that you've replaced door slamming with editing. That the timing of this show.

[Craig Thomas]

He edits the door slam. Yeah.

[Jordana Radnor]

You have your editor who won several. Several Emmys. Sue Fetterman, who won several Emmys over this. But it's also in the writing that. That bam, bam, bam. That this happens. Bam. Exactly at the right timing felt like TV farce, which is so rare and great to have on a. You know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I love that observation that the edit is the door slam that we kind of did. That's what punches the joke a lot of time. And that we were really adamant, Carter and I, to make sure episode two still conveyed that we're still gonna be that show. We are a show that is cinematic, and we will edit it and it will not lag. It will not be a big, long party scene that loses energy. It will Be boom, boom, boom, still, even though we had to sort of play some big party scenes along the way. But I think that's why it mattered so much to us, to do that kind of cinematic montage at the end that equates Ted to the little boy climbing up, trying to grab the prize, trying to skipe the system and skip the necessary steps and jump ahead and grab the prize, and he ends up getting stuck in there. And there's obviously a very nice metaphor there for what Ted's trying to do. And speaking to some of Ted's own flaws of thinking, he can plan everything and skip ahead. And the whole. I liked when Ted says this line in the episode of, like, I can still win this. And that metaphor of the game. It's a game I can win. It's a blueprint I can draw. It's a plan I can achieve perfectly. And that is Ted's flaw. He has to let go of some of that.

[Josh Radnor]

In some ways, Ted is like Horatio Alger. He's like the American dream. He's like. He's really bought into this idea that with effort and with vision, I can do anything, you know, And I think that that's lovable. But it's also. It's not. At least at the beginning of the series, it's not tempered by realism, by patience, by, like, what the show and what the universe and what these experiences teach him is. You know, you can only plan so much. Like, we, like, like, it's a perfect job for him. He's an architect. He's trying to construct and build this life for himself. And the universe keeps, like, you know, blowing away the blueprint and putting it in a puddle of water. It's like, he's not going to be able to. He has to. I mean, it's like, I don't know Star wars, but, like, he has to, like, take off the thing and, like, guide.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Is that like Star wars, right? Like, where he has to take off the vision thing and he has to do it blind and just feel it?

[Craig Thomas]

I think. I think versions of that happened about eight times in Star wars movies.

[Josh Radnor]

Is that a thing in Star Wars?

[Jordana Radnor]

Targeting computer.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't even know it that well. I'm not a Star wars person. That's why I was tentative about it.

[Craig Thomas]

I love how you're really trying to pretend you don't watch that movie every day. It's not working. We did.

[Josh Radnor]

That's what people think. No, we're trying to dispel this idea that would think that I was watching Star Wars. Well, maybe I should stop citing it and that'll.

[Craig Thomas]

I know you're bringing this on yourself, you know, I mean, it is a little bit like groundhog, because Ted is trying to construct fate and destiny here over and over again in this episode. He's trying to manufacture things that maybe are supposed to happen more organically. He's running into live shots of the news. He's doing not one party, not two parties, but three parties, and pretending that was the plan. The whole time. He's sort of trying to fake out destiny and cheat destiny, just like that little kid was trying to steal the purple giraffe, by the way, Cameo alert. And I know this is not a visual medium for most people, but purple giraffe.

[Josh Radnor]

That's the actual giraffe.

[Craig Thomas]

This is the purple giraffe. This is the purple giraffe named so. And this item is what it is because my wife's favorite color is purple, and her favorite animal is a giraffe. And the purple giraffe lives in our home to this day.

[Josh Radnor]

Isn't that amazing that you and Carter could just be like, it'll be a purple giraffe. Giraffe. And then they just present you with a purple draft. Like, you just manifest these things out of your imagination. And then they make props.

[Craig Thomas]

Had to make that. And it was a pain in the ass. I remember, like. Like Dave from Props coming around like, is the. Is this okay? And he was, like, having to cobble together. There wasn't just a purple giraffe to buy. He had to, like, make.

[Josh Radnor]

Right, right. I. I love this idea that Ted is. He's both a believer in destiny, but he also disbelieves it. He. He doesn't believe that it'll just happen. Like, he has to engineer it. He has to get in there and metal architect it. He has to architect it.

[Craig Thomas]

I love when he said that.

[Josh Radnor]

Of my favorites. But he really wants to be the beneficiary of the blessing of the universe, but he refuses to allow the universe to do its job.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that's such a great way to put it. Now he wants to climb up into that toy machine and get the toy he wants. And that's not how it works. He gets stuck. That's not how it works. And so I. I think part of why I want to do that big cinematic montage of sort of Ted and the kid and the attempt, the claw reaching for this thing that it shouldn't, you know, it can't quite grasp that was us wanting to say, this is not just Our party episode. It's a wacky party. It's like this episode's about something too. And it's about something that Ted, we will watch this series. I feel like that episode gave you a whole bunch of threads to track through the rest of the series, one of them being Ted's tug of war between do you let something just happen or do you architect it into happening? And that is one of the central big debates.

[Josh Radnor]

And with the second episode, you're still training the audience how to watch the show. You're outlining themes, you're showing this is what our editing is like. You're really teaching them the rhythms of how to watch the show. And I think one of the satisfying things for people about watching the show is once it clicks in their brain, like, this is the kind of show I'm watching, it's so satisfying because it's.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Allows you. It makes you do a little bit of work. And we like doing a little bit of work.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah, definitely. And you bet on your most. You're creating the show for the audience. You want to be watching it, and you're believing in their intelligence to follow it and trust falling into them. And, boy, did this show find a very intelligent, sophisticated, cool audience. We were very lucky. We were learning what the show was, too. I remember the pilot. When we shot the pilot, it was like 10 minutes long. It's supposed to be 22 minutes long. It was like 32 minutes long. And remember, we said, we won't make that mistake again. Then we shot episode two. I think it was 11 minutes long. It was even longer because we just overrode it, Overshot it, over packed it. That's why Jon Bernthal has so little to do. He's such a great actor. He went on to become this huge star. He's great. He used to have more bits about Carlos. Carlos. There were jokes. I remember up on that roof, there was a top piece with Carlos and Robin. Totally all. So much of it got condensed. He's still funny in it and has a couple good moments. But I remember thinking, oh, poor Jon Bernthal, the victim of us completely overwriting and overshooting this episode. And I remember we had to get an edit and just boom, boom, boom. Just really crunch it down. And that was us still learning how to make it week to week, how to make the show.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so funny. I'm sure when I first watched it, you're so alert to what's been cut. Like, your first watch as an actor is like, oh, they cut that scene or that joke or that line. And then 20 years on, you're like, I have no idea what was lost in that episode.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that's 100% true. I was trying to remember. I know stuff got cut, but I kind of forget. Maybe that means it was the right move to cut it. And certainly, timing wise, we had to.

[Jordana Radnor]

Can I clarify here? Because Edlund, Joe, represents many people who ask the question, why a purple giraffe? So, I'm sorry, can you clarify which came first?

[Craig Thomas]

We knew we wanted there to be some item. We wanted to go off of this metaphor because there really are. And to this day, every year, if you search it, there's multiple times a year, a little kid crawls up into the game machine, the claw machine, and gets stuck. It happens with frequency. It really does. People send it to me. Now, we used to see these stories, and Carter and I would laugh about them. And we said, this is what Ted's doing. He's trying to crawl up into the machine. He's trying to skip the steps. And so we made a whole episode based on that metaphor, combined with this Gatsby idea of the parties will lure the girl. And that was the big idea. But so we knew we needed it to be an item, so we said, what's the item? I said, well, let's make it a purple giraffe for my wife's favorite color and favorite animal. And I figured I would steal it. And again, here it is. To this day, you don't watch only one.

[Jordana Radnor]

I think if you don't know this show, everyone, if you're listening, is also on YouTube. And if you were watching on YouTube, you now could see Craig's purple giraffe.

[Josh Radnor]

Purple. Purple. You have purple giraffe. You have the blue French horn. In the first two episodes, you're setting up these iconic objects. And I've seen there's been a lot of How I Met yout Mother art over the years that gets sent to me where it's just like, yellow umbrella, blue. Blue French horn, red cowboy boots. Like, there's. There's just these items that are so associated with the show. Pineapples, I think. Like, were you guys consciously trying to create this glossary of items that would be. Or do you guys just, like, metaphor? Like, what. Where. Where does that come from?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think we. I think we were conscious of, like, one wanting to have these iconic things. I think it was pretty conscious. I mean, kind of like we're these music nerds, kind of like. Like looking at the COVID of Sgt. Peppers. And noticing new things each time. You know what I mean? We wanted this sort of vast array, this sort of menagerie of visual things and distinctive, memorable things. And Carter, I think Carter was really especially good at that. He was good at realizing it should be this color. It should be that color. I think purple giraffe came from. It was a shout out to my wife, but who was the inspiration for Lily. And we wanted to sort of honor her in episode two for lending some of her life and herself to this little bit. But it's true. Once we had a blue french horn and a purple giraffe. It was kind of like, well, we have to keep finding these things, these memorable items, these sort of talismans. Along the way, we sort of looked at it almost like a map, you know, like an old. Like an ancient map that has, like, there be dragons here, and there's a little picture of a dragon, and here there's. And just like, along the way, you will find these things. There will be these colorful, interesting markers along the way on this map of this journ. And just like a great ancient, illustrated map, that's the image that comes to me. Just along the way, you will find these markers, and the markers will be memorable and indelible, and that was kind of the things you keep with you in your memory, in your life story.

[Josh Radnor]

I love it. I mean, it's almost like the oracle says, gather these three things, and you will.

[Craig Thomas]

It's almost like a D and D campaign. It's like you must find the yellow umbrella and the blue french horn, and there'll be a purple charade. You must prank the purple giraffe. It kind of came from that mythic place almost. Yeah. Like the show had its own mythology.

[Josh Radnor]

These are just a couple things. One that I found delightful. One of my favorite things. I always love my cool architecture tools. I love that showing. I just love it. It's so goofy, and it's also, like, so clear. Like, I don't know what these are for.

[Craig Thomas]

It really seems like Ted may not be an architect.

[Josh Radnor]

He might not be an architect. It's like, this is cool. I love when he says whatever. Like, to Robin, like, trying to be casual.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Over and over again.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Just the faux casual is so funny from a not casual dude.

[Craig Thomas]

He's the lead. Yeah. A mushroom cloud of casual is how he describes himself earlier. It's the least casual image. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

What was also when Robin called. So that was Robin. That's a funny runner.

[Craig Thomas]

That was Robin. That has a lot of good runners. That episode. It really is sort of Groundhog Day. Like, the more I think about it, I don't remember thinking of it in the moment when we were making it, but it's right. Remember that montage in Groundhog Day where he's trying to recreate this amazing moment? They do manage to have an amazing moment somewhere along the way. And the date that he has with Andy McDowell. And they try to recreate it, and it gets more forced and distorted and terrible the more he tries to recreate it and make it perfect. And it's. That's what this is, a little bit.

[Josh Radnor]

One thing. And this is a good lead into Jordana. But I realized on the roof. And I don't even know if attachment theory or attachment language was in Vogue in 2005. I don't think it was that much. But it's very clear that Ted has an anxious attachment style and Robin has an avoidant attachment style.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And avoidant and anxious people often find each other. That's actually like a weirdly good, dysfunctional kind of hook, you know, the two of them. But Ted's kind of like, needy anxious. Like he needs proof of love. He needs. He gets very in. You know, he's a little too much. Right. And Robin is a little like, you're too much. And she needs distance because she fears being engulfed and he fears being abandoned. Like, that dynamic is so at play.

[Craig Thomas]

In the two of them. And that is an ancient. That is a dynamic you can spend another 200 episodes figuring out. And we did. And we didn't know at the time we would do that, but it's a deep. Well, it's a deep reservoir.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. The other big thematic thing that started to become really clear to me, there's this Jungian concept of the puer, which means the eternal child. And Ted has this youthful, childlike. I mean, he wants to be a man. He wants the trappings of manhood. He wants a house, he wants a career. He wants a wife and children. Like, he ostensibly wants all these things, but his motor and his kind of worldview is childish in certain ways. And it feels to me like the arc of him throughout the series is like it's watching someone become a man. Man. You know, it's really watching someone learn how to be whole within themselves, not walk around with this kind of like, are you my mother? Are you my mother? Are you. You know, it's kind of like this mother hunger.

[Craig Thomas]

Like.

[Josh Radnor]

Like. I mean, I didn't even mean that as a title.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

There is something about him that is just he cannot sit still. He cannot be in the present moment without needing to adjust the knobs of the present moment and engineer it a little bit more towards where he thinks he's supposed to go. And it's really about watching for 208 episodes a man, a young man, get foiled over and over and over again until he surrenders. And then it happens.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's that thing you've talked about of, like, the need and the gift of being humiliated. Right? It's actually sort of a gift. You sort of need to go through this, like, this crucible, this a. It's a path you have to walk and survive. And.

[Josh Radnor]

And they say, you know, in the Western world, like, men do not have initiatory. Like women. This is really getting in the weeds, folks. But women have this very natural initiatory thing that happens to their bodies when they. They have their period. Right? Like, it's a. It's. It's an actual. There's a before and after.

[Craig Thomas]

Let's wait.

[Josh Radnor]

What's that? I'm gonna. I'm gonna text you right now. I'm gonna give you some links.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, but can we sidebar about that? Because that sounds important.

[Josh Radnor]

But. But men don't have that. Like, we don't have that kind of. So in. In. In other cultures, there's these initiatory things with men, and they say that if men aren't taught, if men aren't humiliated in a safe context with. With. With an initiatory kind of thing, they will misuse power when they get power. And I think we see that. You know, you see that people who have power misuse it because they don't understand what it's like to be. So you need to be brought low so that when you have power, you know how to use it responsibly. So it feels to me like this show is initiatory for this character.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I loved to compliment you for a second here, I loved the kind of livewire energy you had in this. You almost had like, a. Like Goodfellas, like, the montage where he's cooking the meatballs and the helicopters are chasing him.

[Josh Radnor]

He's on mountain.

[Craig Thomas]

He's just doing so many things. Like, you had, like, this great, almost kind of coked up energy running around in this episode, and it's like.

[Josh Radnor]

So that was probably me as an actor being pretty amped up to be starring in a television show. After I used it, I used that kind of energy of like, ah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

You felt so young and so alive and so, like, it was very compelling to watch. It was just like this buzzing live wire. He really was, like, shot out of a cannon in that episode. And you really inhabited that. I think without meaning to, we tapped into actually how we all felt. It's episode two. It's got to be good. We gotta go, go, go. And it feels that we gotta throw the best party. We gotta throw the best party. And we're gonna throw fucking three of them, and they're gonna make no sense, but we're gonna do it. And, yeah, we're inviting you to that party. And it's gonna last longer than you think. It became a metaphor for the whole thing.

[Josh Radnor]

I also did like Barney's romance with that. Carlos's friend, I think, and he's kind.

[Craig Thomas]

Of upset about it. He's better because. Yeah, that's not gonna work. That's a terrible idea. They work together. Yeah, Barney had a bunch. I mean, everyone had good stuff in that one. And it really makes the sale of how Robin joined the group. But it really is a great Ted episode. It really gets under the hood and shows you who you just watched and the pilot and what the dilemmas are going to be moving forward. And the gift Robin gives back to Ted. And have you met Ted? Where do you even start looking? And she becomes his wingman or his co wingman there, along with Barney. And you realize that's another move. The show's gonna have to tune in next week.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a great final scene in the bar. I love the final scene around the table.

[Craig Thomas]

I felt very moved by it. I mean, a lot of it is making me want to cry while rewatching it. Just how wonderful and shooting those scenes and realizing this works. I want to see next week's episode. I want to see this dynamic unfold. And I think. I think it made the sale. I hope so. I remember being very scared about that episode. So it was good to go back and watch it and be like, it's pretty good.

[Jordana Radnor]

And just so everyone knows of, like, how much Josh and Craig are enjoying this. As though they haven't seen it. They're texting. We're texting each other while we watch this. I just watched Purple Giraffe. It was so funny when, like, I.

[Craig Thomas]

Hadn'T watched it in years. Years.

[Jordana Radnor]

Truly enjoying this in the moment.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Jordana Radnor]

And someone who I think is enjoying it in the moment who has never seen it is, of course, Josh's wife, Jordana, who. Josh. Is there a name for this segment of her show? I've lost Track of the name of this.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, I loosely. It was something like Questions and Observations from a Clinical Psychologist and Relationship Expert who's never seen How I Met yout Mother, who also happens to be married to Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

And that acronym is Josh Just For People who Just Want to Give it up.

[Josh Radnor]

I can't do it. I can't. I don't know. We'll get it out.

[Jordana Radnor]

Yeah, we'll get some music behind it also. Well, she watched episode two, Purple Giraffe, and let's see what was on her mind.

[Josh Radnor]

So I was really taken this episode.

[Craig Thomas]

With how gracefully Ted handled rejection. He didn't get angry at Robin. He didn't devalue her. Instead, he just accepted that a romantic connection was not in the cards in the moment. And I think this hits on probably like a hymn yam theme that when it comes to love, timing is everything. And I think more generally, it implies that if we can accept things as they are, not as we'd like them to be, then we allow for the unfolding of something so much more beautiful than we could have ever imagined. That's wonderful. I love that interpretation so much. Josh, you got a good one. You hold on to that girl. You treat her right. Very smart analysis. I love that acceptance piece. That's so important.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I know. I had never really considered it, but I actually thought of more of, like, what's going on now with men and just this idea that, like, women don't owe you anything. You know what I mean? Like, they don't. You're not owed sex. You're not owed their attention. You. You know, you. You earn it by being a menchie, impressive, interesting, funny person. And I just like so much that. That. That observation, like, he really gets rejected by her twice now, you know? Yeah. Or maybe he kind of, like, takes himself. He kind of re himself in the second episode in some ways, just knowing that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

That they're not aligned. But there is a grace and a kind of elegance, and I don't know what the word is, but he really. He takes himself out and he says, I'm not the guy for this right now, because I can't tone it down or turn it off. But I think what she's saying is there's something really refreshing about seeing a man not turn around and hate a woman because she doesn't want to be with him or doesn't think it's right, but rather says, why don't you join my friends for a drink in the bar?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. He was such a. He was the Bigger person there, he could have gone a petty way with it. And when he said, let's wait. Let's wait a few months and just get. Get past the awkwardness of this and then. Then check in. And that's reasonable for him to say. It was sad to think that that might be how it goes. And then when he senses her sadness. Cause she really does like him. She really does have feelings for him. And she really liked his friends. She and Lily had that great bond form. You could tell they had chemistry, too, as friends. And his invitation, the generosity of his invitation to her to come join their friend group. I just loved Ted in that moment. And Jordana's right. That came from a place of acceptance, that came from a place of transcending whatever petty rejection he might have felt. And also with Tim saying, I really think this is a good human being and we're supposed to be in each other's lives, and she's feeling like a lost soul, I want to bring her into our group. She said she hasn't met many good people here in New York yet.

[Josh Radnor]

Right. I really like the fact that she's new to New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, I really felt that in that moment, she played that beautifully. It was very vulnerable. I haven't met many good people. And you remember that moment when you first moved to New York in your 20s, and you're like, it's such a big city. How am I getting my people? Where are you?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, when you haven't. I mean, I kind of had it baked in just because I went right into grad school and I had this community. But I remember in la, it took me a while to. You know, it takes you a while to find your tribe. And big cities, especially, are incredibly disorienting. Before you find your neighborhood, you love the community. You love it's. And you have to have that. I mean, you can't. Big cities are so isolating and can be so overwhelming. But, yeah, I thought. I was really taken with that. And I think Jordana was also pointing to what we were talking about earlier, that, you know, I always think of it like life, like a. Like surviving a riptide or undertow. Like, if you fight the undertow, it takes you down. It's really dangerous. But if you let it take you, it pops you back up.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And it feels like in these first two episodes, Ted, he tries to fight and tries to fight and he's drowning until he just lets it take him, you know, and then he pops up and he's doing okay. We Got some great questions about purple giraffe that we weren't able to get to here, but that's why we've got general questions. General questions coming to you in a bonus episode later in the week. FYI, the audio message that you heard at the top of the show was sent in through our website and you can send in yours too. Just keep it under 60 seconds and it might make it onto a future Huimium episode. Go to www.howwemadeyourmother.com and click on Contact and share your story with us. And on that same contact page, you can also write to us with a story. And those are the stories we are reading here at the the show. So, Craig, why don't you read this first one.

[Craig Thomas]

This one is from Jo in Birmingham, uk. She says our whole wedding was himyum themed. Josh, we hear this a lot too, don't we? Like the tattoos. We hear this. We've heard this so many times. It's amazing. Okay, back to the letter. We had a blue French horn as the main table centerpiece and blue violins and red roses on the other tables to represent the blue quartet. All the men wore ducky ties. Our first dance was grooves in the heart that Barney and Robin did. I had a yellow umbrella for photos the bride. For our honeymoon, we went to New York and went to McLaren's bar. The bar that McLaren's is based on called I think she means, which is McGee's in Midtown. Shout out to McGee's. We had a Farhampton sign too. The guest list was made to look like a playbook and the table plan was designed like a blueprint by Mosbyus Designs. Our son, who was born nine months after our wedding is called Ted. On Ted's first birthday, he had Bro code T shirts for him and his brother and they have a made up day called Brother's Day where they hang out together and get each other presents to appreciate each other. It's on the Sunday before for Valentine's Day because brosbeforehoes, you're teaching your son some really good, some really good lessons that he shouldn't. I don't know. That story is beautiful. Amazing. Thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

Ted was born nine months after the wedding.

[Craig Thomas]

That was a hell of a wedding night. To one hell of a wedding. What a wedding says Ranjit.

[Josh Radnor]

What a wedding.

[Craig Thomas]

That is an honor that you guys made your wedding hymn themed. And the granularity, the number of good ideas and ways you integrate really impressive.

[Jordana Radnor]

And if you're watching this on YouTube or want to check out our Substack page. Yes. We're going to share right now the Far Hampton sign from Joe's wedding.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, these are pictures of the wedding.

[Jordana Radnor]

We have pictures from the wedding. There's the blue French horn.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, that's great. Blue French horn.

[Jordana Radnor]

There's the guest book.

[Craig Thomas]

Playbook. Guest book.

[Jordana Radnor]

And there's little Ted.

[Craig Thomas]

There's Ted. They named their son Ted nine months after the wedding. It's what? And Josh. Can you believe that? Did 2005. You think there was going to be a baby named Ted? That people are having weddings and, like.

[Josh Radnor]

No. You know, there's a lot of dogs named Mosby.

[Craig Thomas]

Mosby is a good name for a dog. Very loyal, has some share some traits with Ted.

[Josh Radnor]

This is from Chelsea in Durham, North Carolina. I'll try to keep this short, just like Ted did.

[Craig Thomas]

That's burn.

[Josh Radnor]

I met my. I met my wife at summer camp when we were 15. She came out our senior year of high school, and then we both went to the same college. I came out my sophomore year of college, and then we started dating. We dated on and off from 2013 to 2017. 17, when we finally got engaged. It was a difficult will they or won't they? Several years we were broken up when I graduated from college. And that summer, I binge watched How I Met yout Mother for the first time. Ted's speech about what love is to Jeanette summed up how I felt about my wife in a way I was never able to put into words. I kept my love for my wife even when we weren't in each other's lives. We finally found the right time with our right person in 2017. We got married in 2019 and have been ridiculously happy together since then. I did tell her she had to watch How I Met your Mother before we got married. It wasn't her typical type of TV show, but she loved it. She said she understood me a bit better after watching my favorite show. We didn't share our wedding vows with each other beforehand. My vows included Marshall's renewal vows from season nine. My wife's vows included a promise to always watch How I met your mother with me without planning it. We both included this magical story in our wedding. Chelsea, thank you for that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

That's lovely.

[Craig Thomas]

So happy the show meant that to you guys.

[Josh Radnor]

I think couples that watch How I met your mother together stay together. That's just a truism. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Jordana Radnor]

How we made your mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thompson Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola, Kelly Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's muse letters on Substack. Read Craig Thomas's published [e-mail] and and you can subscribe to My Dead Father Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing provided by Tink Media. People will in fact dance the real.

[Josh Radnor]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?