How Lily Went AWOL | S1E21 "Milk"

Summary

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How We Made Your Mother

Episode Title: How Lily Went AWOL | S1E21 "Milk"
Hosts: Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas
Date: August 25, 2025
Focus: A deep-dive into "Milk," the penultimate episode of HIMYM Season 1, dissecting Lily’s crisis, friendship dynamics, emotional turning points, and meta-storytelling.

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Episode Overview

The hosts, Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby) and series co-creator Craig Thomas, revisit Season 1, Episode 21 ("Milk") of How I Met Your Mother. They explore the emotional and narrative crux of the episode: Lily’s urge to escape her life by pursuing an art fellowship in San Francisco, turning for help not to her fiancé, Marshall, but to her best friend Ted. They reflect candidly on the episode’s themes—mistakes, friendship, the pressure of perfection, and the necessity of life’s detours—and connect these to their own lives and the broader appeal of the show.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting "Milk"’s Title and Themes

• Milk as Metaphor:
  • Both hosts agree the episode’s title, “Milk,” is the least memorable of the season. While milk is a recurring motif (the literal call to pick up milk, and its use as code for Lily’s escape plan), Craig suggests alternatives like “Mistakes” or “Fight or Flight” feel closer to the heart of the episode.
  • Craig [03:45]: “Maybe one other title could have been Mistakes, because this episode is about mistakes. Can we outsmart ourselves ahead of time about mistakes? Or do we have to make the mistakes? Because that's living.”

2. Ted and Lily’s Unique Friendship

• The episode features one of the most intimate Ted-Lily moments, as Lily confides in Ted rather than Marshall, highlighting the depth of their bond outside the typical Marshall-Lily orbit.
• Josh [07:40]: “I was always startled by, and pretty delighted by, the moment where Lily says... ‘And Ted, you're my best friend.’ That almost changed my actorly relationship to Lily. Ted and Lily have a special thing even without Marshall.”

3. Mistakes, Pressure, and Self-Knowledge

• How I Met Your Mother frequently circles the idea of making mistakes as the only way to live fully and gain wisdom—a theme emphasized in Lily’s emotional monologue and central to the episode.
• Craig shares that aspects of Lily’s "load-bearing" personality were inspired by his wife, and that Alyson Hannigan’s emotional performance brought out this deeply relatable tension.
• Craig [17:30]: “The people...who in their family or in their friend group are the person that kind of holds shit together...When that person breaks, it's f—ing potent.”

4. Ted’s Character: Loyalty vs. Plans

• Ted is obsessed with plans and order, but continually sacrifices his own vision of “perfection” for his friends—particularly Lily and Robin.
• Josh [09:49]: “When people ask me what I love about Ted, I often say his loyalty. What a good friend he is.”

5. Behind-The-Scenes Stories & Cameos

• Cameo Reveal: The paramedics in Barney’s pickup prank are Craig Thomas and Carter Bays themselves—a long-standing inside joke.
• Wesleyan University References: The rival company in Marshall’s storyline, “Nicholson, Hewitt and West,” as well as the character “Clark Butterfield” and other names, are nods to Wesleyan dorms.
• Production Bits: The “Matchmaker” algorithm scene features photos of crew members, and the scene with the Fiero breaking down was a particularly elaborate set-up requiring a bigger stage.

6. The Legendary Prank Wars

• Marshall’s subplot pranking Clark Butterfield reflects a real writers’ room prank war with a neighboring sitcom, “The Loop”—showing how life in the writers’ room inspired on-screen antics.

7. Music & Cultural Detail

• Ted’s affection for “Kim Deal and Kim Gordon,” and the series’ thoughtful music cues, help root HIMYM in a pop-cultural fabric that fans can recognize.
• Josh [30:20]: “Any Kim from any cool band can't be too picky, right?”
• This love of music, they note, “lets you know this is the music that's influenced them, that shaped them.”

8. Ted and Robin: Chemistry & Imperfection

• The hosts revisit the scene in Robin’s van, noting its easy chemistry and the way it encapsulates Ted’s drive toward someone always just out of reach—Robin as “the project.”
• Josh [39:44]: “I have a friend who...said, I knew when I married her that I would always be chasing her, that she would just be an inch out of reach... I think that's what it would be with Ted and Robin.”

9. The "Wisdom of Milk": Letting Go of Perfection

• The episode concludes with Ted rejecting his algorithm-approved “perfect match” in favor of the complicated, unpredictable real love he feels for Robin.
• Josh [44:18]: “I don't want perfect. I want Robin. And I think that it's evidence of his growth, that his own idea of perfection is actually maybe not even what he's looking for.”
• Craig [45:08]: “There's wisdom in that line ... The chase for perfect is a road to madness and that wisdom lies in actually living the life you're living.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On the episode’s theme of mistakes
  • [17:30], Craig: “Damn it, I've made no mistakes. This is the part where I get to at least flirt with making a big one.”
• On Alyson Hannigan’s performance
  • [16:33], Josh: “Ally is so kind of known for more comedic things...you forget she's an A+ dramatic actress. She can break your heart.”
• On Ted and Lily’s friendship
  • [09:04], Josh: “Who does she call? It's like Ted’s the break-glass in case of emergency, call for her.”
• On the show’s meta-humor
  • [26:28], Josh: “When you guys thought of goat in the bathroom on the 30th birthday, is that something like, just a challenge to yourself?...In two years, if we're still around, we're gonna have to create a plot line about a goat in a bathroom.”
  • [26:41], Craig: “100%. We did not know what that was. We just called our shot ... Challenge accepted.”
• On music as character development
  • [30:24], Josh: “It’s like it puts you in a sonic world. Like it lets you know, this is the music that’s influenced them...”
• On Ted’s growth
  • [44:18], Josh: “His own plans and his own idea of perfection is actually maybe not even what he’s looking for. You think you want one thing, and then you fall in love.”
• On making mistakes to grow
  • Listener Letter [47:52]: Quoting Lily's speech: “There are certain things in life where you know it’s a mistake, but you don’t really know it’s a mistake. Because the only way to know it’s a mistake is to make the mistake. And then you look back and say, yep, that was a mistake. So really, the bigger mistake would be not to make the mistake…”

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Listener Reflections

Howard from Taiwan’s Letter

[48:38] - [52:39]
A listener draws emotional parallels between his own long-distance relationship and Lily’s storyline. He quotes Lily’s “mistake” speech and thanks the show for inspiring courage and self-trust in pursuing his dreams, ending with a declaration to his partner, Anna.

• Craig: “That letter’s unbelievable. Oh my God. That got her [Josh’s wife]...and me too.”
• Josh: “I think...How I Met Your Mother is like, you can plot everything out, but you’ve gotta live it forward and you gotta step in the potholes and twist your ankle...”

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Memorable Moments & Easter Eggs

• Barney’s Best Pickup Line: The writers cameo as paramedics (Craig and Carter) in Barney’s wildest attempt to impress women.
  • [22:15] - [25:20]: Discussion of the fun—and Carter’s inability to keep from breaking character.
• Wendy the Waitress’ first naming:
  • [22:51] - [25:00]: A small but pivotal world-building moment as the recurring character finally gets her name.
• Marshall’s wild animal encounters:
  • [35:03] - [36:59]: Anecdotes about Jason Segel handling various wild animals on set, showing the lengths the show would go for a gag.

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Takeaways & Reflections

On Friendship & Holding Things Together

• Lily is the “mama bear,” both in the cast dynamic and within the storyline, responsible for keeping things running smoothly—a pressure reflected in her Season 1 crisis.
• The episode is emblematic of HIMYM’s willingness to let characters be flawed and scared—learning through mistakes as much as through wisdom.

On Storytelling

• The playful structure—future promises, callbacks (the goat!), real-life in-jokes—helped HIMYM stand out among sitcoms in its era.
• Interior character growth trumps outside perfection: Ted’s loyalty, Lily’s collapse, and the group’s resilience become the real heart.
• The closing sentiment: Living means making mistakes, and sometimes, the bigger mistake is never seeing what’s on the other side of risk.

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Essential Timestamps

• [03:45]: Discussion about renaming “Milk”
• [06:35]: Lily’s “fight or flight” and plot summary
• [09:49]: Ted’s loyalty and priorities
• [16:33]: Praising Alyson Hannigan’s performance
• [26:28]: HIMYM’s playful plot planting (the “goat” moment)
• [30:24]: Musical influences and character-building
• [39:44]: Ted and Robin’s enduring dynamic
• [44:18]: Ted’s philosophical turning point
• [48:38]: Listener letter and Lily’s “mistake” speech

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Conclusion

This episode of How We Made Your Mother is a loving exploration of one of HIMYM’s most thematically rich episodes, blending inside baseball, pop culture, and genuine emotional insight. With warmth, humor, and vulnerability, Josh and Craig unlock not only how the show was made, but why its characters—and their mistakes—still matter.

Transcript

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Adam (Listener)]

My name's Adam, I'm 34 and I hail from Melbourne in Australia. I've just serendipitously been re watching the show for the upteenth time and I quite literally grew up on How I Met yout Mother. This rewatch has been an interesting one because unfortunately I'm in the midst of a separation. My partner and I were together for almost 14 years and we've been best friends since high school. 20 plus years at this point. So it's been a really trying and difficult time. But man am I glad your show is around. It's strange watching it now I suppose being newly single and heartbroken. But it seems apt given the themes and context of your show. And I can't thank you enough that it exists because it's getting me through a lot and I really appreciate it.

[Craig Thomas]

Thank you.

[Josh Radnor (as character or narrator)]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, hello, Josh Radner. Welcome. Welcome to How We Made youe Weather. I'm a very under the weather Josh Radner. And I am here with a much healthier Craig Thomas. Hi Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hi, Josh. I feel bad you feel like absolute crap today. But God bless you.

[Josh Radnor]

I must have had some bad milk.

[Craig Thomas]

Boom. We're right in.

[Josh Radnor]

We're right in.

[Craig Thomas]

You bury the Lead. You bury the lead. You're doing just fine.

[Josh Radnor]

If you can. I don't know what's going on. I woke up not at my best, but I'm pushing through because it's showbiz, kid. You know showbiz.

[Craig Thomas]

It's for nobody. The show must come on. We are talking about the episode Milk Today, which made Josh's joke extra good.

[Josh Radnor]

How I Met yout mother, season one, episode 21, which aired when Alex.

[Carter Bays]

It aired on May 8th.

[Josh Radnor]

Back in the day.

[Carter Bays]

Back in the day. It aired on May 8. In slight correction for last. Last week, for my own damn episode. Best prom ever. I might have said June 1st. It was May 1st. I don't know what I said, but here's a correction. If I did. This one was May 8, 2006.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. And I should point out that this is this. There's a very, very hot, sexy cameo.

[Josh Radnor]

And we'll get to that. We'll get to that, Craig. But I gotta say, when I asked you guys what episode is next and. And so. And you wrote Milk, and I was like, what the hell is Milk? Like, every episode of season one, I remembered the title vividly. And I. And the title clicked. Oh, that's what that's about. Milk. Like, I did not remember that this episode was called Milk. Would you today call this episode Milk?

[Craig Thomas]

No, I definitely wouldn't. I could. I didn't come up with a better one while watching. That's the thing. I didn't really come up with a better one while watching it. But I like Milk is a big metaphor. It's a big metaphor in this one. Milk. The idea of the Milk. And Milk becomes code for Lily's escape to San Francisco. Or not. So it plays a role in the episode. But yeah, I do not think it's the catchy title. Let's spend this hour trying to think of a better title as we go. And I would definitely call the one the finale of this season, which is called Come on, which I think is also not that memorable. It should have been called the Rain Dance. Take the thing you're most going to remember and make that the title. But I don't know what that is for this one. Figure it out.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's just recap. Like, give a quick sketch of what happens in this episode. So we're really hurdling towards the end here. This is the second to last episode of the season one. Yeah. What do we got? What's happening here?

[Craig Thomas]

So I'm also just thinking about it. Maybe one other title could have been Mistakes because this episode is about mistakes. Can we outsmart ourselves ahead of time about mistakes? Or do we have to make the mistakes? Because that's living. Can you think your way out of it ahead of time? And the answer turns out to be no. That's what this episode's about thematically. But what the actions of this episode are that Ted discovers that Lily is considering bailing on her wedding. And going to San Francisco and doing this insane, crazy thing. And she has not told Marshall. Not insane, crazy thing. Doing this. Chasing her dream thing. Doing something that matters to her. In this sort of panic she's having about, is it all moving too fast? Am I growing up too fast? And there's just this. To me, this is a great Ted Lilly episode. Because Lily calls Ted in that moment. She has basically stolen Marshall's car to drive to this interview. That if she gets it, she'll go to San Francisco for months during their wedding. And she calls Ted out, and they have this amazing scene together where Ted gets stranded on the side of the road. Yeah, this is actually one of my favorite kind of Ted Lilly moments of the whole series. Just that she calls him, that they have it out, and that she bails on him. Anyway, I'm not doing a very good synopsis here. That's essentially the big crux of the episode is Lily's fight or flight kind of response to getting married.

[Josh Radnor]

And then the B story is.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, the b. Well, there's a couple other story threads. There's a prank war at Barney's. Marshall is interning at Barney's company. And there's a prank war with someone in another company.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's say the name. It's a great.

[Craig Thomas]

Which is, by the way, a huge Wesleyan reference. It is Clark Butterfield from the company. Nicholson, Hewitt and West. All of those are dorms at Wesleyan. And every word of that is a dorm at Wesleyan University, our alma mater. Carter and I. And Alec Lev, our producer. And my wife Rebecca, all of whom I met there, by the way.

[Carter Bays]

Fight or flight. She's flighting. She's leaving. They're fighting. Put the two together.

[Craig Thomas]

That could have been. That could have been it. Fight or flight. We'll come up with. Let's even come up with half a dozen better titles than Milk. That's the goal. We have two. And, yeah, so there's a prank war where Marshalls get into Barney's corporate culture. Which is part of what's making Lily feel a little less close to Marshall lately. And Ted also sort of the C story is the matchmaker. We met earlier in the season. That company has come up with a perfect match for Ted that he misses meeting because Lily calls him away. And then he gets rescued by Robin and it reawakens his feelings for Robin. Now we've really touched upon all these story threads of this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was two things that really jumped out at me. I remember when I read it and when we. Maybe it was more when we acted it just the way that Ali did it. But I was always startled by and pretty delighted by the moment where Lily says almost real quick, like in a rant, she says, and Ted, you're my best friend.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, I don't know why I never. It almost changed my actorly relationship to Lily. Like Ted's relationship where I was like, oh, they're best friends like Marshall and Lily and Robin. I mean, Marshall, Lily and Ted are all best friends, but Ted and Lily have a special thing even without Marshall. Like, that is.

[Craig Thomas]

They do.

[Josh Radnor]

That's their own thing that I feel like almost, you don't see a lot of it first season, but they've known each other for so long. They've known each other since they were 18. So you can imagine, like, even as Marshall and Lily were falling in love all over college, like Ted and Lily had late night talks too. Ted and Lily walked around and worked out life together. And you know what I mean? Like, that felt really potent to me.

[Craig Thomas]

You played. That is potent. You played that history. I think I felt that history in that scene in a way that I hadn't before that it really deepened the two of you and you and Alyson are good together. You know, there aren't like endless scenes of just the two of you and certainly not in season one. And I feel like they've had these late night talks or these weird, you know, asides from Marshall before. I feel that in the history of how you guys played that scene, but I feel like it's usually Lily talking Ted off some ledge. And I love the nature of the scene where Lily's essentially saying, it's my turn to climb up to the ledge and look down. I'm always the one talking people off of there.

[Josh Radnor]

Right. And also, who does she call? Like, she calls. It's like Ted's the break glass in case of emergency, call for her.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Even though he's so close to Marshall, Like, I also, you know, I've observed about Ted in this first season. He is obsessed with plans, he's obsessed with order, he's obsessed with things going the way he Wants. Except when Robin comes in the picture, he'll rip up the plan, he'll rip up the party list. He'll do whatever. He'll improvise when Robin comes around. But also, he's got this perfect date lined up. Like the perfect ordered, like, from his imagination. Weirdly, it's literally exactly what he's looking for. And Lily calls and he leaves, and he goes to her.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So it feels like, yeah, Robin is the tantalizing object of his romance. But Lily in distress, or any of his friends in distress are also enough to have him rip up the schedule and go to them. Which I think is more evidence of when people ask me what they love about Ted, what I love about Ted, I often say his loyalty. What a good friend he is. You know, he's such a good friend.

[Craig Thomas]

He's such a good friend. And I love how you played that scene, because Ted is the way I took it. And tell me if this is how it felt acting it. I took it that Ted was there for Lily because they are best friends. But also I saw it in Ted's eyes, your eyes. Playing the scene that Ted knew he had to live with the heaviness of this knowledge that he couldn't share with his other best friend, Marshall. And I felt like. I felt Ted torn between being there on the side of that road in Westchester or Dutchess county, wherever he is, and thinking about Marshall back home and the moment where he calls, where he has to actually talk on the phone briefly to Marshall. The guilt that he's talking to Marshall while he holds this terrible knowledge that Lily is in this freakout that Marshall knows nothing about. I thought you played that great. There's like, this real conflict, like, conflicted energy to that scene. Is that how it felt to you? Like you were trying to be the best friend to two people? That the two missions didn't overlap? Well, at that moment, for an actor.

[Josh Radnor]

That'S like a real gift because it's like you want to be pulled in three separate directions. Like, you want to feel that. That stress and strain of. And it's also true. I mean, I think we've all had experiences where you're in a group of friends or a trio or something, and two, you know, it's like the side group chat, right? Like, suddenly there's information being exchanged that is not meant for the group at large. And then you have to hold that. You know, it's not quite, you know, someone's having an affair, but it is. It does feel like an infidelity to Their plan, you know, he's. She's really thrust this thing in Ted's lap. And you know what I thought was funny? When she said it might have a flat tire. And then Ted pulled up, Jordan over, she goes, ted can't change a flat tire.

[Craig Thomas]

No, But I thought about that, too. But he's an architect, so I said he has the brain to change.

[Josh Radnor]

But then he does.

[Craig Thomas]

That was where I went.

[Josh Radnor]

But then he does. The greatest acting that I probably did in the episode was acting as if I just changed a flat tire. The kind of like, okay, there you go. Mission accomplished.

[Josh Radnor (as character or narrator)]

And I wrote you this little diddy to sing you in New York City.

[Josh Radnor]

We'll be right back. Hey, Alec. Hey, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You guys remember last week when we hopped on the call after the podcast and I had to run my dog Nelson out because he'd been in so long? And the skies were dark, darkening.

[Craig Thomas]

It looked like Ghostbusters. It looked like Zuul and the Gozer were happening.

[Josh Radnor]

It looked biblical. The whole thing was very prophesied and terrifying. The sky was darkening, and I was on the phone with you guys, and it had started raining already in Tribeca, but it hadn't quite got to Brooklyn yet. Do you remember that?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And I was like, it's coming. It's coming your way, man.

[Josh Radnor]

You're warning me.

[Carter Bays]

I mean, did you get soaked? Did you get soaked in that?

[Josh Radnor]

No, I didn't. I'll tell you why. I had my vessi raincoat with me, and I threw that hood up. Nelson got a little drenched because I didn't get him a vessi raincoat, which I wonder if they're going to be making them for dog. We need to look into that. But for humans, this raincoat was unparalleled. I didn't. I barely got any rain on me because the vessi coat and I looked good. I looked good not getting rained on at the same time.

[Craig Thomas]

You could have draped that over Nelson a little bit. Next time, hot tip. You bring Nelson in, it becomes a heroic moment. Now.

[Josh Radnor]

No, because I can't do that thing. I can't do that thing where I can't shake off the rain the way he does. It's just unbelievable.

[Carter Bays]

Now, I have a question, though, because in this week's episode of the show, Ted Mosby made it rain.

[Josh Radnor]

That scene was missing one thing in that episode. I think he was rejoicing, delighting in getting soaked because he realized he had supernatural powers.

[Craig Thomas]

Any other day, he would have had a vessi on. If it weren't 20 years ago. Did Vessi exist 20 years ago? And we've derailed. Here's the point. Vessi's great and they make great shoes that are waterproof. They make great raincoats. We got some stuff to try on and try out. We all love it. So listen, make every day a little easier. Visit vessi.com your mother now for 15% off your first pair at checkout and start exploring with confidence. Embrace every journey, rain or shine with Vessi.

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[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show. Some people have just weird pockets of talent. Like in two truths and a lie Ted would throw in can change a tire. And people be like, that's a lie. He's like, ah, no, it's a truth. I can. I'm from Cleveland.

[Craig Thomas]

That was a great scene. I also love how early in the scene Alicen Lily starts tearing up right when she's almost starting to cry as she's saying like no, no, no, I just want to see if I can get this thing and then I'm gonna let it go. And I feel like she's crying because she knows she's lying. I love how she played that because she knows, she knows it's bigger than. She just wanted to know if she could get it. If she gets it, she's going and she's pretending that's not true and it's coming out of her eyes. That trying to hold that lie is coming out of her eyes. And I thought that was really excellent acting on her part.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, once or twice a season you guys really gave Ally like these kind of scenes where she would have like an aria or she would be like, you know that great rooftop scene with me and her later. She just consistently is just extraordinary in these scenes.

[Craig Thomas]

She's so good.

[Josh Radnor]

I think because Ally is so kind of known for more comedic things or quirky things. You forget she's an a plus dramatic actress. She can break your heart. And I don't know, the way she delivered that mistakes thing, I was almost like I was really Just as an actor, I was like that. Slaloming down that hill and clearing all those flags. Like when you're like, that's a real high level of difficulty, what she did. Because it's a really hard speech in terms of just the logic of it. And she's going too fast for Ted. But she herself had to understand it to memorize it. Right. So I just thought she did an incredible job throughout that thing, you know, being. Being both like manic, but also having like deep clarity through it in her mania. It was really, it was a high level, high wire act.

[Craig Thomas]

There's like a deep self knowledge there to say essentially, damn it, I've made no mistakes. This is the part where I get to at least flirt with making a big one. And then I'm not gonna make it. I'll see if I can make it. And then I'm gonna let go of it and not make it. And she knows she's lying to herself. And she actually does have a point. I think people, the people who in their family or in their friend group are the person that kind of holds shit together. They're the cement. They're, they're the, you know, they're the load bearing support of the building. The building is going to come down if you take away that, that piece, that wall, that column, that's Lily. And I think she has been living under that pressure for her entire life. I say this because some of this overlaps with. With my wife, who is very much that and, and her family and friends and their family, my. With me and the kids. She's. Some of this comes from her. Some of these last couple episodes of the season come from her. I will say that there were moments where she was like, that's really close. You really didn't give me a heads up that the dialogue was going to be exactly stuff that I kind of wrestle with in my life, which was a lesson young Craig, writer, young writer Craig had to learn and really didn't and really just kept doing that, doing it the wrong way. And like, it would just air and people would go, oh. But I think that Allyson plays that so well because she's. I think Allison, she shares some of that in her energy in the world, I think. Right. And she shares on screen. That's how she feels to us. That's her presence. Her presence is.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, she was also in the cast. She was kind of the mama bear in terms of. I mean, Allie was definitely like, if I needed a doctor or like, she just had a lot of answers to Things of, like, where you go when you need this.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, she's a mama.

[Josh Radnor]

She's a mama. And I think that when you're the kind of hero child or the, you know, it's revealed later, like she. She had a very unstable childhood. Her father is this kind of nutball board game inventor. And, you know, she had to become an adult because she had children for parents, essentially. And I think when you get those people in either duress or in therapy, there's a lot of dissembling to do. There's a lot of falling apart that has to happen because they have not been able to do that or allow. They feel like the whole structure will fall if they fall. So it can be an enormous relief to have them do that. But also to them, it's like they're letting down not just themselves, but their whole world. They're holding up.

[Craig Thomas]

And when you see that person and the audience sees Allyson that way, sees Lily that way, I think the characters see Lily that way. The audience sees Alicent that way. When you see that person who's that sturdy, who's that necessary to keep the world together, keep the planet spinning and keep gravity working and people from flying off into outer space. When that person breaks, it's fucking. It's potent, to go back to that word, potent. It's very potent when that person breaks, when that person cries, when that person has the breakdown in real life or as a character. It's very powerful. It's almost unsettling to watch it. It's unsettling to watch Allyson, Lily with this energy in this episode. Unsettling in the best possible way. I mean, it's what makes this episode work and what makes it special. And some of the best acting in season one, I think, is that sequence.

[Josh Radnor]

And I also think the relative kind of swiftness of it, which is so startling to Marshall a little less to Ted, just because he has more forewarning. But the swiftness of it feels right because it's the simmering underneath. There is a snap. There's a kind of thing of like, I need to. You know, I never. I think she's looking at this road ahead and she's seeing all these other doors closed. We've talked a lot about this, like a lot about how I met your mother, especially. Season one is about options. You know, we have a lot of options. Which roads are we gonna take? And she literally, like takes off on a road. She takes this car and goes. Goes away.

[Craig Thomas]

No one ever said Carter and I were subtle with Metaph it's an actual road.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, let's talk about you and Carter, because this is a nice way to get into the fact.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, the other best acting of season.

[Josh Radnor]

One is the other best acting of season one.

[Craig Thomas]

These young studs that come into the bar.

[Josh Radnor]

So at the beginning of the episode. This is Ted's. Is it Ted's birthday? He's still wearing the crown.

[Craig Thomas]

He's still wearing his. Yes, his crown.

[Josh Radnor]

I understand Ted maybe wants to have his birthday party at McLaren's, but he's about to meet this perfect woman, and he's like, I know a spot. Come to McLaren's. Like, he can't travel.

[Craig Thomas]

He really can't branch out.

[Josh Radnor]

He can't branch out at all. That was just. You guys didn't want to build another set for like a little.

[Craig Thomas]

It's probably made him want to build another. It was definitely that. Although he never ends up going to that date, so it could have been anything. We could have not built the set because he doesn't ended up going. I think it's that Ted wants to know this perfect woman fits immediately into his world. Maybe that's the logic. And also probably a little bit not building extra sets.

[Josh Radnor]

So. So Barney says he's got the best pickup line. Is that what he says? Like, I have the.

[Craig Thomas]

The greatest pickup line of all time.

[Josh Radnor]

The greatest pickup line of. So they watch him do it. He stops this woman, and he says, oh, my God. You guys sit down. Oh, my God, you're. Please, don't, don't. Don't speak. You know? And he sits her down, calls the paramedics. Wendy the waitress. Is this the first episode where we say Wendy the Waitress?

[Craig Thomas]

I think so. She's been in other episodes, but I don't know if we ever. Yeah, this might have been like her name.

[Josh Radnor]

Giving her a name. Her curtsy was great name day, but. And then these paramedics come in and they're taking care of her, and he says, what? You had a terrible fall now, is that.

[Craig Thomas]

I think it's like a young Brad Pitt.

[Carter Bays]

No, no, no.

[Craig Thomas]

Who's this? Who. Who are those guys? Very. I mean, they must have gone on to other.

[Josh Radnor]

The two. The two actors. I think they were the leads in Book of Mormon. No, that was Carter Bayes and Craig Thomas, the paramedics.

[Craig Thomas]

Carter Bayes and Craig Thomas.

[Josh Radnor]

A very young Craig Thomas. I thought you guys looked the same, but. And then I saw you, and I was like, no, you guys look younger because you don't notice people.

[Craig Thomas]

Agents. I see Craig's old Old fucking face on the podcast all the time. It's different. Yeah, no, we're young. We look very young. Probably 31 there. I'm thinking 30, 31. Carter and I were. Our birthdays are six days apart in August, which is adorable. Pam Freeman was one or two days off of me and big Leo months and Sue Fetterman, too. And we would all do one big birthday on the stage for all of us. Y. So you know what I like, too, about this, Josh? Other than our moment of Gloria, Carter and I, I like Ted does the thing that you want him to do sometimes, which is just get on board with enjoying something from Barney, not be like Barney, but you're like. He's like, as my birthday gift, I want to see. You've been talking about this greatest pickup line of all time for months, presumably. Let's see it. Let's see it. For my birthday. And I enjoy that Ted is enjoying that.

[Josh Radnor]

I could make the argument that Ted enjoys Barney isms when he's not thrust in the center of them.

[Craig Thomas]

When he's not just when he can.

[Josh Radnor]

Watch from the booth, he totally enjoys it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But when it's like, have you met. You know. And he turns it on him, he's.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, yeah, that's the difference.

[Josh Radnor]

That's the difference. So this one, he can just be an observer. He can be Statler and Waldorf in the balcony. And he enjoys that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So. So you guys had to chant, give her your number.

[Craig Thomas]

Give her your number. But I love that Barney starts his own chant. That was the writer's name took. No, because if it's Barney under his breath, I give her your number. Come on, Emily.

[Josh Radnor]

Come on. That was so funny.

[Craig Thomas]

He played that. So funny. But also Carter. Carter.

[Josh Radnor]

Carter breaks. You didn't break. Carter was smiling. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

I took it very seriously. I had a whole backstory for my guy.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, well, you were in I really. I forgot Troilus and Cressida. Neighborhood Playhouse is so funny.

[Craig Thomas]

So funny. Such a weird throwaway. We're just. He promised him a plug. He's like, if you do this, I'll plug your toilets. And Cressida production to the bar. That's the deal. That's what they're getting out of it. Paramedic 1 and 2.

[Josh Radnor]

But I thought when I saw them come in, I was like, wow, the paramedics got here quick. And then I was like, no, they were waiting outside. Their actors. That Barney.

[Craig Thomas]

Right? They were their actors.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And it had to have been a Monday night, because it's their off Night. It's their everyday off. Yeah. So Wendy the waitress gets introduced, which, again, like, populates the town. Like the Simpsons, you know, like small town.

[Craig Thomas]

I love your point about that.

[Josh Radnor]

I thought touching the lasagna is so funny. Like, Lily has to touch the hot plate.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, it's that theme. It's the mistakes. It's that thing of, like, we know it's bad, but we have to do it anyway. And that's. Yeah, I like that theme. Really runs through the whole thing. I'm not sure the milk aspect of it is memorable enough to have been the title, but it's just that idea that we, as humans, we know better and we have to make the mistake. It's just what it is. Which I think holds up. I think it stands the test of time.

[Josh Radnor]

When you guys thought of goat in the bathroom on the 30th birthday, is that something like, just a challenge to yourself? Like, in two years, if we're still around, we're gonna have to create a plot line about a goat in a bathroom.

[Craig Thomas]

100%. We did not know what that was. We just. We called our shot. You paint yourself in that corner. You go, when we get there, we have to do that. It's just. It's a challenge accepted. It's a self challenge. Challenge accepted. And it's also, hey, network, hey, cbs, don't cancel us.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, people are going to want to see who the mother is and what the goat is on the 30th birthday. So do the writer's assistants keep track of, like, okay, season three is coming up. Ted's 30th birthday. There has to be a goat. Is that how that works?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, we had a list of stuff to pay off. Setups and payoffs and consistency and continuity. Yeah, we had a running thing. And our wonderful writer assistants would keep us honest on those. Still easy to forget, right? It's two years away. He's 28, and this is his 30th birthday. You had to remember for two years. You gotta get to that goat thing. But, yeah, it felt like a show. Anytime you can do a thing only your show can do, do it right. That future knowledge thing is a superpower of the show. And we were just like, let's have as much fun with that as we can. We were second to last episode of season one singing for our supper.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that felt like flexing the time jump wings more than ever. In some ways.

[Craig Thomas]

We didn't know what it was. Just to be perfectly clear, there was no masterminded. We didn't Know what in God's name that was?

[Josh Radnor]

Do you know what I liked? And I. And maybe it was the way I felt. I liked how effortlessly, joyfully Ted is wearing that crown. I don't know. Lily got him the crown or if he's like, get me a crown. But there's something so funny about how he's just like, I'm the birthday boy.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, he's enjoying being the special victim.

[Josh Radnor]

It feels like the bride at the bachelorette party wearing the. Whatever. The veil or whatever.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, it's sweet. I think Ted was a very good sport in this episode. Like, he was up for anything. He's a good friend to Lily and he, you know, he gets this very enticing thing and he actually lets it go. I don't whether or not that was a good idea, whether or not, you know, in that moment he could have known what. You know, whether that was a good choice. I mean, maybe it was a mistake he had to make. On theme. That idea of the love solutions thing coming back around, which I like. I like that coming back around from earlier in the season. Although it is one of the most dated feeling things in the entirety of season one. A match me. Because there's no apps for that.

[Carter Bays]

I really like the guy who took over from Cameron Manheim's role. He's very dropped in.

[Josh Radnor]

He's.

[Carter Bays]

He's super funny. Is the reason not to have her back.

[Josh Radnor]

Bob Rorschach, by the way, was a great. That's a great name for him.

[Carter Bays]

Is the. Is the reason to do that plot wise. Just. It's easier to cast. To not cast Cameron Manheim. It's just less expensive and a little easier.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, it's way less expensive. And scheduling. And she was great. We would have. But it would have been one very expensive scene. And sometimes, you know, we were season one show.

[Josh Radnor]

I also felt like Ted drove Cameron's character. He broke her. He broke her. She left the business.

[Craig Thomas]

100%. She left the business. She's like, if I can't find this guy a match, I have to peg it in which sort of tracked. And she did. She was a mess at the end of that episode. So it does track. She was like having an existential moment of the soul at the end of Matchmaker.

[Josh Radnor]

I have a thing again about how I met your mother having the best music taste. I love Kim Deal. Kim Gordon.

[Craig Thomas]

This is what I was just gonna say. The Kims. The Kims are name checked.

[Josh Radnor]

One of my favorite lines of Ted that they didn't put a laugh on because maybe it's not that funny, but I think it's so funny when he says any Kim from any cool band can't be too picky, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't be too picky. Any Kim from any cool band.

[Josh Radnor]

Like that's just very smart to me.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a little. People will dance that line. It has the same feeling of that. Like. Yeah, it's the same. So Kim Deal from the Pixies. Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth. The fact that Ted loves cool bass player ladies is one of my favorite sort of low key Ted traits and dreams. And yes, name checking them. It's not like we played those band songs in this episode, but just name checking them. We definitely had that feeling of like, they're not going to say that on Two and a Half Men at nine after us. And I bet King of Queens at eight didn't say it either.

[Josh Radnor]

It's like it puts you in a sonic world. Like it lets you know this is the music that's influenced them, that shaped them. Jordana and I just saw the Broadway play John Proctor as the villain, which is excellent. If you can see it. Please do. It's fantastic. But it does a really great job of grounding these teenage girls. Like pop music as their like almost like sacred texts, right? Like Lorde and Taylor Swift and Lizzo. Like it shows that you remember when you love. When you love music as a high schooler, like the way We Loved you Too or something like that. And you know, the Replacements and things, it just, it says a lot of. I think the music people love, especially at those tender ages, is very revealing about who you are and who you're going to be become.

[Craig Thomas]

It's who. It's who you are. I just watched this Led Zeppelin documentary that came out recently and I was like remembering what that band meant to me in high school. I was like, this is like a core memory. This is like a very formative like, yeah, it's powerful. And that's hearing the Kim's name dropped. I was very happy because, yeah, it does create that world.

[Josh Radnor]

That's why you became a drummer and overdosed on drugs.

[Craig Thomas]

That's it. I said, my hero, John Bond did that.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm gonna do that too. You know what? Real quick, when the computer flashes and it land, I love that it was just all crew members. That was entirely crew members of How I Met yout Mother.

[Craig Thomas]

I was just going to say, Josh, that this is a very cameo, heavy of behind the scenes. How much from other people. Because all of those Crew pictures, me and Carter. Rob Green, Reverend Rob Greenberg marrying Ted teacher, unseen wife. Reverend Rob Greenberg, one of our. He's a writer and he's a producer. He was a consultant with us the whole run of him me and Rob Greenberg and was in the writers room room part time. And the only other director who directed a bunch of hymns than Pam. Rob is the best.

[Josh Radnor]

As you can tell from his name, Rob is Jewish. So him playing a reverend was deep. Incredible character work on Rob's part.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I mean he's no paramedic number one or number two. Whichever one I was number two because Carter is alphabetically first. So it's probably paramedic number two. Obviously was the best acting in this episode. Then Lily in that scene, then you in that scene. Then Carter's fourth. Rob's a distant fifth. No, but yeah, so that was. There are hymnim behind the scenes people all over the place. Yeah, I'm just making sure if we covered all my little notations. Luke and Leia. Ted says his kids are gonna be Luke and Leia. There's a lot of pivotal things in this penultimate episode of season one here.

[Josh Radnor (as character or narrator)]

And this old man, he mustered me fell in love with you. New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now commercials.

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[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials. Back to show.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you know what I thought about when. When Barney and Marshall start doing the white mice prank on Clark Butterfield and those mice are climbing all over Jason. I was like, we had Jason handle a lot of wild animals in the show. Don't you remember? He had to hold like what was an armadillo or like some like A. What was that thing he had to hold? That was really hard to take. It was hard for me to watch, man.

[Craig Thomas]

I forget I'm completely blanking on this or something. I mean, I. And holy crap. Someone needs to write in and solve this for the Aldersons over here.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, please.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm having a complete blank.

[Josh Radnor]

Please remind us what animal Jason held.

[Craig Thomas]

Later season in what episode.

[Josh Radnor]

He really had to hold it. There was an animal trainer on set, and he had to hold this badger type animal.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Vague memory, and I'm not coming up with it. That's so weird. He had to interact with monkeys at some point later. Yeah, he did. I will say that this prank war was a little bit through season one of How Much Mother. There was an elaborate prank war happening between us and the writers room of. I think the show was called the Loop. It was. Will Gluck and Pam Brady might have been involved. A bunch of other writers, and there was an elaborate. Parts of whole Days would go into having this incredibly elaborate prank war with the Loop through this other writer's room a couple buildings over from us. And I'm pretty sure that, like, hours were spent on this prank war. It involved our agent. Our agent. Matt Rice was also the agent for, I think, one of the creators of that show. Literally, our agent was involved, going both directions and helping them prank us and us prank them. It was completely ridiculous. I think Chris Miller and Phil Lord were a big part of that because they were buddies with Will Gluck, who's a very famous director now. And. Yeah, so the prank war thing was definitely inspired by that.

[Josh Radnor]

You guys were so distracted by the prank war. That's why I ended up with lines like, that's New Year's Eve for you. When the circuits were jammed.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that was part of the prank. They said, I dare you. Well, can you get Josh Radner to say the worst line in TV history? We said, we can do it. He's a really nice guy. I bet he'll say the line. It's very amenable.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you know what's one of my favorite lines of first season, Ted, that I got to say in this episode? Can a brother go apple picking without getting the third degree? Damn.

[Craig Thomas]

Damn. I know. I love. That may have been my line. I love the day. I love throwing a good damn at the end of something. Damn.

[Josh Radnor]

And I love. You know, when Koby shows up at the end, you realize, like, Robin's been away most of this episode.

[Craig Thomas]

You've mostly not seen her. She was off getting bad highlights in her hair. And that's another. You know what? But you're good at acting, Josh Radnor. So is Cobie Smulders, and so is Lily Aldrin. Lily Aldrin. So is Allison Hannigan. You and Koby. That scene in. There's a lot that had to happen for Ted in this episode, because leaving the Lily thing in Robin's van and having that scene with her, that is so connected and at ease, and there's real chemistry there between Ted and Robin. That's a great scene, too, that whole sequence that ramps him up to making that decision of, I'm actually not gonna open, you know, door number three here and see what solutions as to present me. I'm gonna stick with this. Maybe a mistake, but I have to make it. I have to sort of play this out and see if I can get this to happen at this moment in my life. And damn it, next episode, he pulls it off.

[Josh Radnor]

It's kind of like a great Ted Robin. Almost like the end of Slutty Pumpkin. Like a scene at the end of the episode where they kind of. You just see their easy chemistry. And you see. You know, I have a friend who's married with three kids, and he said to me once about his wife, he said, I knew when I married her that I would always be chasing her, that she would just be, like an inch out of reach. And they're still married, and I think they're happily married, but their dynamic is he chases her. And I think that like. Like, you know, imagining Ted and Robin together in their future, I think that's what it would be. I think Ted would always be just a little more hungry for her, and she would be a little scared and a little out of reach, and then every once in a while, turn to him and surrender. But there would always be this little chase. But there's something about Ted that he needs. That he needs to feel like he's. He needs a project.

[Craig Thomas]

He needs a project. He's an architect.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, he's an architect.

[Craig Thomas]

He needs a problem to solve. He needs a problem to solve. And that is some people's dynamic. And some people can have that dynamic for 70 years together, you know, and other people. It will destroy things. It just depends.

[Josh Radnor]

I loved his. Her joke about Candy and him going, candy was really sweet about the van and Candy.

[Craig Thomas]

They were really sweet together. The highlights scenes, those scenes between them.

[Josh Radnor]

I think that they're able to relax because there's nothing on the table right now. In some ways, it's like they've moved past this thing. They've healed the kind of hurt around, or they're healing it. This almost feels like the moment where they really do feel this is healing it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, because in Best Prom Ever, there's that little moment at the end where she says, I maybe haven't forgiven you, but I miss you. And this is the next episode, right? This is them realizing they really, really, really like each other.

[Josh Radnor]

And also that. That Robin will go out of her way to help Ted. I mean, Dutchess county is a drive. You know, it's like there, she's got to change her night considerably after probably a long day. I love where we do a classic kind of Mosby, hand on the heart. When he sees her hair, and her hair is objectively kind of ridiculous, but it also, like, hey, he'll love her with that hair. Like, I think in some ways, he realizes how much he loves her because it's like that hair is not a deal breaker. It's more like, I'll move towards this. Like, this is great.

[Craig Thomas]

It is a moment of surrender from her, right? She takes off this. She shows him some vulnerability. She shows him this ridiculous head of hair. She takes off some armor and says, look at me, in an effort to cheer him up and send him on his way to maybe go meet this wonderful woman. And you sense in her, like, a little. She loves Ted there. And there's a little something there. There is a little something there in that scene between you two. And he picks up on it. She knows it's there, and she's a little wistful that maybe he's going off to meet, you know, the perfect woman. She had feelings for him. She called him after 2am she called him after 2am Scoreboard.

[Josh Radnor]

But in love, there's always those moments where you have to reveal whether it's an emotional kind of scar or like a physical thing you're. You're uncomfortable with. The love is about, like, look at this part of me. Do you love this part of me? Will you accept this part of me? And she's doing that. Obviously, it's something that can be remedied. You know, she can get her hair fixed, but. But it's. It's vulnerable and it's. And it's a. It's a point of real connection. It's a bid for affection from her, and he really gives it to her. But also, I want to say that so. So the scripts go out to the actors, but it also goes out to all the department heads, right? Hair, makeup, wardrobe. So they have to look props, they have to look through and say, what is up ahead for us in this episode? Right. So Dave Baker and props will see, you know, we need this many drinks. We need this party hats for Barney. Although I don't know if that would be wardrobe. That's probably props. But hair will have to see. Okay. Kobe needs bad highlights. Right. So they have to figure out, like.

[Craig Thomas]

How to give her lots of conversations.

[Josh Radnor]

The streaks of hair. Right. So just. Just when we talk about, like, the show being created, all of this stuff has different departments that are, you know, they're all serving the story, but they each have their own areas of concern that they really have to tend to.

[Craig Thomas]

And get ahead of. Yeah. And this. This episode, this is an episode where we had to, on a soundstage, have enough room for a Fiero to break down on the side of what looks like a road outside and then at some point drive away.

[Josh Radnor]

We did that on the stage next door, I believe.

[Craig Thomas]

Right, the stage next. You beat me to the punch. I think this is the first time we had to go to that next door stage and create a big open set. And there's some other great scenes in the history of him and where we did that. That stage next to us was not eternally occupied by another show. A lot of our runs, we were able to sometimes just grab it and say, we have a big. We need a set big enough for a Fiero to pull away a shot wide enough. And so that's a much bigger project for everybody. Costs more money. It's a bigger set. Huge. You know, foresight is needed to sort of plan that one moment where that car drives away. But we did it. That's all on stage 21, right next to stage 22, our home stage. And yeah, it took more work to get that shot, but it was great.

[Josh Radnor]

I'll just say one last thing that I thought the key line, at least for Ted in this episode is, I don't want perfect. I want Robin. And I think that it's. It's evidence of his growth, that his own plans and his own idea of perfection is actually maybe not even what he's looking for. You know, you think you want one thing, and then you fall in love. I mean, it's not just people like you. There's, like, real estate. You know, you. You think you're looking for one place, you walk into a house or an apartment, you go, no, this is my. This just is my. This is where I'm gonna live. And it doesn't have all the things I wanted it actually has some things I didn't think I wanted but actually are wonderful. I think that he's learning that Robin's imperfection is perfect for him.

[Craig Thomas]

That's wisdom, I think, right? I think there's wisdom in that line. I think the audience, some of the audience is probably screaming at the screen like a horror movie. Don't go in there like, hey, what are you doing? Go meet the woman. Go see what's behind door number three. Love solutions, lady. And maybe that's true, but. But Ted is. I think he's gaining some wisdom there, in a sense, because he's saying, I've spent so much time chasing this notion of perfect. I'm going to forget about that and just see what's right in front of me and see if I can make that finally happen and make what's actually in my life happen, rather than something, some tantalizing other floating abstractly outside of the perimeter of my life. This promise of something perfect that a computer is serving up, maybe that's something, maybe it's not. But I want to see through my actual life right here. This is my life right in front of me. I think there's wisdom there. I got a great piece of advice when I was having trouble letting go of how I thought something big in my life was going to go, and it didn't go that way, which was really mourning the thing. Having a little funeral in your mind for the thing you thought was going to be this perfect situation and let go of it and really put it to bed, really say, I'm not going to pretend things were going to be perfect, that that's possible. I'm just gonna actually live the life I'm living. And that's how in so many different categories in life. I think that's great advice, actually. I mean, regardless of what goes on to happen with Ted and Robin, I think really deciding that the chase for perfect is a road to madness and that wisdom lies in actually living the life you're living. I think there's definitely something there.

[Josh Radnor]

I love how Ted when everyone groans and reacts and says, no, not again, and he is completely unaffected by it. He just has such, like, inner calm and serenity and knowing about it that he's not. Nothing can rattle him. This is gonna happen.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And it's. It's. It carries over into the next episode. I love confident Ted. It's like Ted is actually tuning into some universal vibration here in this episode because he goes there to help Lily. That falls apart. Robin's there to help him. Everything's there in his life, right? It's all there. It's a closed circuit. It's there. His life has what he needs in this episode, and he knows that.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I wonder, and I'm sure that on some level this is true, but, like, if Lily and Marshall can maybe not make it and get rattled, like, nothing is certain. There is no order. There is no. There's nothing we can really depend on. You might as well follow your heart and see where it leads. And I love that last conversation, you know, about milk. To bring us back to the maybe, perhaps mis. Perfect title for this episode, really, but Lily and Ted are actually having a telepathic conversation there. You know, they're just having a different conversation. For Marshall, I think Ted is seeing.

[Craig Thomas]

The imperfection of the perfect couple. It's the perfect couple. He's been trying to replicate this perfect couple, and he's seeing that there is imperfection in this perfect couple. And his best friend Marshall, doesn't know that. His other best friend, Lily, is experiencing something very unsettling. And I think that's right. I think that gives Ted free rein to go chase what could be imperfect for him. But it's what he wants and it's what he needs to see through. And that's our season finale, very next episode. We're almost at the end of season one of both the TV show and the podcast.

[Josh Radnor]

You really teed up a final really beautifully here. So it definitely makes me want to tune in and watch the finale. And we'll be discussing it next week, and I'm really looking forward to it. Well, we've come to the end of the show, and we like to end this show and every show with a letter that we've received. If you would like to write us a letter or record a voice note about what how I met your mother means to you or what your relationship has been to the show, please go to how we madeyourmother.com h mym.com go to contact and follow the instructions there. It should be pretty clear, but we've just gotten flooded with beautiful reflections and people letting us know how this show came to them and how it's changed them and affected them. And we have a beautiful letter to read today. This is from Howard in Taiwan on. I want to tell you a story about my soulmate, the one true love of my life. The first time I met my girlfriend was during our freshman year of college. She had already watched how I met your mother multiple times, but she was the one who introduced me to the show, we shared many of the same thoughts about him. Yam which helped us build a wonderful connection. Thank God we were like Lily and Marshall, Two people who found true love from the very beginning. By the end of this year, we will be celebrating our six year anniversary. 3. Now I'm about to pursue my master's degree in the U.S. sometimes I feel like it's a mistake because I'm deeply in love with my girlfriend, my country, Taiwan, and every single friend I have there. Studying abroad could easily weaken or even break those relationships. However, I still need to go ahead to find out if this path is truly worth it for me. This situation reminds me of Lily in episode 21 when she wanted to find out if she was meant to pursue her dream of becoming an artist. In that episode, she stood in the middle of nowhere and told Ted, I know it's a mistake, but there are certain things in life where you know it's a mistake, but you don't really know it's a mistake. Because the only way to know it's a mistake is to make the mistake. And then you look back and say, yep, that was a mistake. So really, the bigger mistake would be to not make the mistake. Because then you'd go your whole life not really knowing if something is a mistake or not.

[Craig Thomas]

Not.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you again to this show for giving me the courage to pursue my dreams. And to my girl, by the time you reach this episode, I will probably be in a graduate program in the US So I want to tell you, don't be afraid. We can make it through this. Wait for me. Love you, my dear Anna. Howard.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow.

[Josh Radnor]

Jordan.

[Craig Thomas]

Beginnings of the episodes make me. I hear it. Jordana. Josh's wife Jordana is crying in the background from that letter. That letter's unbelievable. Oh, my God. That got her. That got me too. Wow. Thank you for sharing that, Howard. Beautiful. That's beautiful. Oh, my God. I so hope that she hears this, that this is a surprise to her, that she hears this.

[Josh Radnor]

If Anna's not in the business of listening to the C block, you gotta. You gotta remind her.

[Craig Thomas]

Stay tuned to the end. Sit through the pretty letter ad there's something really beautiful after it. We're gonna talk about cats peeing. And then you're gonna hear undying devotion from Howard. That was so beautiful. I wish you guys the best of luck. I'm so glad the show speaks to you in that way. Oh, boy. I think going to take that adventure is an amazing thing to do. And I think you sound very in love and have A good feeling. It's gonna go well, like it did in the end, in the long run. There was some turbulence for Marshall and Lilly, but spoilers, they were okay.

[Josh Radnor]

I gotta say, Craig, I really. I enjoyed reading that speech from Lily a little slower than she delivers it. There's a lot of wisdom in that speech, and there's a lot of.

[Craig Thomas]

There's a lot of wisdom. She's manic.

[Josh Radnor]

She's manic. But she's also, in some ways, articulating a core theme or philosophy of How I Met yout Mother is like, you can plot everything out, but you've gotta live it forward and you gotta step in the potholes and twist your ankle, you know, to learn and where you're gonna.

[Craig Thomas]

As you read it, which I enjoyed hearing you read that speech in a different tone and sort of. It was like a good. It was like a good cover. It was like you took a rock song and slowed it down to a ballad there. It's one of those. And I thought of Jimmy Stewart and It's a Wonderful Life. That's what I was thinking of as you were reading that. Because there's this kind of yearning and like, I've got to go out into the world. I've got to do these things. But there's also this feeling of there's so much here for me. There's so much here for me. And what a universal conundrum. Do I go out seeking everything outside, or do I realize I have enough here? Sometimes you get to do both, and it works out. And I hope that's what Howard gets to go do. He gets to go see the world, and then his world is still there waiting for him and with him through that. And I think that to share that, to trust that person, to trust that your life and your world is going to be there on the other side, is a huge and wonderful act of faith. And I think that if you lose something or if something is shaken or challenged by that, that can also, in the long run, be a good thing and lead to something stronger on the other side, even if it's a little different than you thought. So I just wish you the best of luck. I think it's brave and exciting and lovely what you're doing, Howard. So thank you for sharing that I am guilty.

[Josh Radnor (as character or narrator)]

Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Carter Bays]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our Digital Content Producer AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how wemajourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Want some merch? Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Order Craig Thomas debut [e-mail] novel and you could subscribe to My Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will in fact dance the real.

[Josh Radnor (as character or narrator)]

Question it just hit me.

[Josh Radnor]

Me.

[Josh Radnor (as character or narrator)]

Am I in love with you or just New York City?

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