How We Entered The Lobby | S2E12 "First Time in New York"

Summary

Podcast Summary: How We Made Your Mother

Episode: How We Entered The Lobby | S2E12 "First Time in New York"

Date: January 19, 2026
Hosts: Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas, with Alec Lev

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Episode Overview

This episode revisits "First Time in New York" (HIMYM Season 2, Episode 12), originally aired January 8, 2007. Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby) and Craig Thomas (co-creator) explore the episode’s unique blend of flashbacks, emotional milestones, and personal lore. Key topics include how the show handles “first time” stories, euphemistic humor under broadcast constraints, and why this type of lore-building episode is essential to both character and cultural narrative. They highlight touching fan messages and the ongoing resonance HIMYM has with global audiences. The conversation is a warm, hilarious, and sometimes deeply reflective journey through sitcom storytelling, memory, and what makes HIMYM so durable and beloved.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. "People Will Dance": The Power of HIMYM Mantras

[01:03–04:04]

• Listener Kate from Corsica shares how the “People will dance” mantra from the pilot has given her courage.
• Josh and Craig reflect on the unexpected, lasting impact of show quotes:

  “It’s not like we shot the pilot thinking, people are gonna get tattoos of that line.” – Craig Thomas [02:52]

• Discussion around performance anxiety, stage fright, and the separation between talent and nerves—with references to Natalie Merchant and Miles Davis.

2. Building "Lore" in Sitcom Storytelling

[04:44–10:20]

• Josh labels the episode a “filling in the lore” one, providing rich backstory without drastically advancing the plot.
• The introduction of Robin’s little sister, played by Lucy Hale, offers fresh dimensions on Robin’s character.
• Marshall and Lily’s relationship mythology and the significance of Robin saying “I love you” to Ted for the first time.

3. Euphemism and Broadcast Standards

[05:58–07:56]

• Navigating CBS Standards & Practices and making the topic of “first times” (sex) plausible for prime time.
• The writers relied on euphemism and clever visual jokes (e.g., Robin’s “first time” scene, the slow-burn reveal with heartthrob posters) to slide risqué content past censors.

  “You have to be paying attention… the realization that was his room, not Robin’s, is a way-homer.” – Craig Thomas [07:01]

4. Music & Mood: The Indie Soundtrack

[08:13–08:46]

• The Weepies and The Decemberists lend emotional texture, curated by episode writer Gloria Calderón Kellett.
• Their knack for discovering then-up-and-coming bands gave HIMYM its distinctive musical voice.

5. Virginity Stories: Truth, Persona, and the “Lobby” Metaphor

[09:08–10:26 | 25:55–28:24]

• Episode structure inspired by group storytelling games; everyone confesses their first time.
• Marshall and Lily’s “lobby” metaphor—debating if pre-coital acts “counted”—became a comic pivot point.

  “It reminded me of that debate… should couples go to the bathroom in front of each other?” – Craig Thomas [25:55]

• HIMYM’s theme of how people edit and present their life stories, both to others and themselves.

6. Hollywood In-Jokes & Deep Cuts

[18:13–24:19]

• Quintuplets gag: Robin’s sister’s boyfriend, Kyle (Ryan Pinkston), references a short-lived sitcom most of the writers worked on.
• This inside joke exists on two levels—a punchline for the general audience and a sly wink for long-time collaborators.

  “It was revenge for several writers that had to…do a very lengthy tour of duty.” – Craig Thomas [18:45]

7. Dirty Dancing, Pop Culture, and Barney’s Fantasy

[24:27–25:58; 32:44–34:07; 38:35–41:48]

• Iconic use of “Dirty Dancing” footage, featuring Neil Patrick Harris (Barney) digitally inserted as Swayze—a costly but memorable set piece.
• Barney’s tales of “losing it” plagiarize Gen X film plots (“Risky Business,” “War Games”), underscoring his emotionally evasive, mythmaking nature.

  “Barney is self-mythologizing his virginity loss to cover up something actually very painful.” – Craig Thomas [28:24]

8. Empathy, Memory, and the Art of Retelling

[28:53–29:52; 43:17–44:15; 61:19–62:33]

• The shifting nature of personal narratives—memory as a dynamic, sometimes self-protective art.
• Ted’s act of compassion: changing his own story to help Robin’s sister, with the episode reinforcing empathy through narrative flexibility.
• Reflection on how HIMYM offers solace to fans facing the messiness of love and uncertainty.

  “Fiction is the antidote to loneliness.” – Josh Radnor [61:42]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On HIMYM’s enduring mantras:

  “People will dance. We’re not gonna worry about it.” – Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas [03:56]

• On broadcast constraints:

  “Because you’re at 8:30 on prime time 20 years ago, you’re still dealing with pretty heavy-handed standards and practices…” – Josh Radnor [05:58]

• On self-editing and mythology:

  “The story’s better if it doesn’t count. We lost our virginity to each other. That’s what we’re going with.” – Craig Thomas [28:24]

• Barney’s real story:

  “He was 24. It was his mom’s friend. She kept calling him Barry. His sheets smelled like menthols…” – Recap of Barney’s confession [39:24–39:37]

• Real-life parallels:

  “Memory is always doing its tricks and edits and backflips and self-justifications…” – Josh Radnor [28:24]

• On friendship and compassion:

  “They know Barney dwells happier in delusion land…and they give it to him, and they’re happier too.” – Josh Radnor [40:00]

• Fan letter favorite:

  “For instance, when I wanted to tell my boyfriend I was in love with him but was having a tough time getting it out, I watched First Time in New York over and over again just so I could realize I’m not alone.” – Ali (fan letter) [60:11]

• On HIMYM’s unique perspective:

  “Part of the power and comedy of How I Met Your Mother—it’s a gender flip…” – Josh Radnor [29:25]

• Reflecting on artistic impact:

  “Art lets you know you’re not alone.” – Josh Radnor [62:33]

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Fan Engagement & Listener Letters

• Kate from Corsica credits the “People will dance” mantra for overcoming stage fright.
• Another listener, a British teenager, calls “First Time in New York” the single most comforting episode, relating to both Ted’s Empire State Building obsession and Robin’s hesitation with “I love you.”
• Multiple fan notes highlight HIMYM as emotional comfort—“it’s like having a best friend, a pillar I can turn to.”

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Behind the Scenes/Production Stories

• Casting trivia: Lucy Hale (Robin’s sister) and connections to other teen shows (“Wizards of Waverly Place”).
• Inside joke: Writers’ past trauma on “Quintuplets” leads to a quintuplets plot reference, funny only to a handful of writers and actors.
• Music clearances: Licensing “Dirty Dancing” clips and “Time of My Life” music was expensive but felt “worth every penny.”

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Sitcom Tech & Cultural Throwbacks

• MySpace cameo as period-specific tech nostalgia.

  “When Katie says, I already put it up on my MySpace…” – [31:11]

• HIMYM’s running gags: The “lobby” as a euphemism, callback to the pilot’s bunk bed joke, and the recurring architecture fetish.

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Reflections, Observations & Life Lessons

• The episode exemplifies HIMYM’s balance of warm-hearted humor and honest emotional messiness.
• The journey—the process of becoming, not just the destination—is foregrounded both in the Empire State Building plot and the series at large.

  “There’s kind of this mini lesson that the journey is more important than the destination. That is in some ways the point of the series as well.” – Craig Thomas [43:17]

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General Q&A / Recommendations

New York tips from the hosts:

• Josh praises Brooklyn’s vibrance, parks, and restaurants [55:02].
• Craig endorses Prospect Park’s beauty and unique history [56:07].
• Alec recommends walking Central Park unplanned, finding endless hidden gems [56:42].
• The “How I Met Your Mother” bar (McGee’s), Shakespeare in the Park at the Delacorte, and city walking tours for HIMYM fans.

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Special Announcements & Personal Notes

• Personal update: Josh’s brief podcast hiatus was due to the birth of his son—a warm moment illustrating real-life joys paralleling the podcast’s themes of change and connection [44:47–45:20].
• Segment absence: Jordana (Josh’s wife and clinical psychologist whose commentary is beloved on the pod) is currently “feeding a small child,” but may return in future episodes.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is exemplary of How We Made Your Mother’s signature blend of nostalgia, creative process stories, deep fan engagement, and thoughtful life lessons. From “People will dance” to laughing at long-lost sitcoms to reading letters about love and heartbreak, Josh and Craig illustrate how sitcom storytelling at its best, and HIMYM in particular, becomes connective tissue for audiences across generations and continents.

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Stand-Out Quotes

• “Fiction is the antidote to loneliness.” – Josh Radnor [61:42]
• “Falafel, falafel.” – Craig Thomas (on Robin’s ‘code word’ for ‘I love you’) [62:33]
• “They know Barney dwells happier in delusion land, and they give it to him, and they’re happier too.” – Josh Radnor [40:00]

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Episode Highlight Reel (Useful Timestamps)

• [01:03]—Listener stories, “People will dance”
• [04:44]—Episode “lore” and myth-building
• [08:13]—Music and curatorial choices
• [18:13]—The “Quintuplets” inside joke
• [24:27]—Dirty Dancing, special effects/Barney fantasy
• [25:55]—Metaphors & marital mythology
• [32:44]—Top bunk/bottom bunk callback
• [39:24]—Barney’s sad (and funny) real “first time” story
• [43:17]—Journey vs. destination as life/series theme
• [60:11]—Fan letter about using the show as emotional support

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For Further Engagement

• Send your letters or voice notes via howwemadeyourmother.com
• Check out Josh Radnor’s newsletter and music (joshradnor.com)
• Read Craig Thomas’s writing (craigthomaswriter.com)
• Join the Facebook fan group for ongoing discussion

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“People will dance. We’re not gonna worry about it.”

Transcript

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[Commercial Voice 2]

Hi Josh, Craig and Alec. I'm Kate and I live in Corsica. I wanted to thank you for your amazing podcasts, which I find just as comforting as the show has always been to me and even more philosophical. I'm definitely looking at the show with new eyes and something I took from what you said and you say it over and over again, which is great for me. It's like my new motto is people forward dance. I'm not going to worry about it. As a hypersensitive person, I always worry about what people are thinking. And another thing is I recently started singing in a band, something I've always wanted to do and I've never dared to do because I was always worried and didn't have the confidence. I now sing on stage and I'm always worried people aren't going to dance and not enjoy themselves. So I always say that to myself before I go on stage. People will dance. I'm not going to worry about it. So thank you for this motto which I will take and use for the rest of my life. Thank you guys.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Well, hello and welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother. I'm your co host, Josh Radner. My other co host is Craig Thomas. He's here with me. Hi Craig. Hey there Josh Craig co created a show with Carter Bayes years ago called How I Met yout Mother. I starred in that show as Ted Mosby. And now we're working our way through. We're looking back, and we're having the best time. And we are also delighted every week to receive letters and voice notes. And I was just so delighted by that. By that. People Will Dance has become someone else's.

[Craig Thomas]

Inspirational motto that has outsized impact. That line from the pilot, it's not like we shot the pilot. We were like, that line. People are gonna get tattoos of that line. We're gonna hear from people in Corsica. By the way, I've been to Corsica. It's unbelievably beautiful. During How I Met yout Mother, I visited Corsica, I think, very early on. It was really gorgeous there. And can you imagine, Josh, that line is coming back to us, boomeranging back to us from Corsica 20 years later.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I also would like to say we kind of touched on this when Wayne Brady joined us. But. But the notion that just because you have stage fright and because you're nervous has nothing to do with your talent or your ability. And it reminded me that Natalie Merchant from 10,000 Maniacs, one of, I think, like the great vocalists of time, was apparently so nervous and struck with stage fright in her early years of 10,000 Maniacs that she would only perform with her back to the audience.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. Like Miles Davis. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

She faced the band. Cause she could not face the audience. But I don't think it matters.

[Craig Thomas]

It doesn't matter.

[Josh Radnor]

People will dance. We're not gonna worry about it.

[Craig Thomas]

People will dance. We're not gonna worry about it. It's the best. Thank you for that message. Those messages are the best part of this whole thing.

[Josh Radnor]

Please keep sending them in. We love to hear from people how the show has landed on them, how they're growing with it, how they're even, how they're reconsidering it as they get older. As we're doing here today. We're deep into season two of How I Met yout Mother. This is an episode called First Time. It was written by whom?

[Alec Lev]

This was written by Gloria Calderon Kellett, and it aired on January 8, 2007.

[Craig Thomas]

It's an auspicious moment, beginning of a new year. And this, our podcast episode will also be dropping in January of the new year. Right. This episode is dropping around that same time.

[Josh Radnor]

So it seems like their podcast. It always feels like we're 19 years ahead of the 19 years downstream. But this is A really fun episode. This is what I. I call these episodes, Filling in the lore. Like when there's these flashback episodes, you get more of the history of people and it kind of shades in, adds more color to the sketch. And I always love these episodes. I remember this was a fun one to film.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And I think that's a good way to put it. Filling in the lore. It doesn't necessarily advance the present day story wildly, except Robin saying I love you to Ted is a huge step in their relationship. So I like that about it. A filling in the lore episode is great. If in the end, some move, some chess move happens. That's also important in the present, which I appreciated about this episode. But I loved getting to see these characters and how they lost their virginity. Like, once we hit that idea in the writers room, we're like, this is juicy. We'll dive into this.

[Josh Radnor]

And also a genius title for this.

[Craig Thomas]

First time in New York.

[Josh Radnor]

First Time in New York. This is a title I would not change. This is a title you don't change.

[Craig Thomas]

Perfection. 10 out of 10 would do. Again, I think Gloria, the writer of the episode maybe came up with that. She's very.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what else was funny? It struck you in this episode, like, because you're at 8:30 on prime time 20 years ago, you're still dealing with like a pretty heavy handed standards and practices department.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, right. For sure.

[Josh Radnor]

Now this episode is about sexual intercourse. Your first time having sex. Like, that's what this episode is largely about.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But it's almost entirely euphemistic.

[Craig Thomas]

It is. It's very euphemistic. Except for the part where you. We apparently see Robin. We sort of are seeing that happen with Robin. I was like, that was a big swing. And none of the standards and prize people said, wait a second, did we just see quasi intercourse happen in this scene? Which. Which it seems to be strongly implied. I mean, then it's debated, but later.

[Josh Radnor]

But when they pop back. I'm getting a little ahead of ourselves. But when they pop back and he said, oh no, my mom's home, like, I didn't understand the joke. And Jordan had to explain it to me.

[Craig Thomas]

You have to be very much paying attention.

[Josh Radnor]

You have to be paying attention because it's. The room is like filled with posters of like teen idol, like heartthrob guys, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, absolutely. But she says there were signs he was gay.

[Josh Radnor]

Cause you assume it's her room, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You assume it's her room in the A side. Yeah. I was watching that with Rebecca who also hadn't seen the episode in 18 years. And my wife and she. There was a delayed reaction, but then it was her biggest laugh. The realization that that was his room. She had a huge laugh.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a real slow burn, that one.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's a way Homer, as they say, satellite delay.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, you mean laugh on your way home.

[Craig Thomas]

Laugh on your way home. Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Or I've also heard it described, maybe this a Rob Greenberg. You open the refrigerator at night and then you laugh.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like you're looking for food late at night, and that's when it hits you.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yes, I get it. I'm now doing Rob.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It also is an interesting one about. Because we go into everyone else's kind of virginity, losing their virginity stories. It's an interesting thing of, like, the stories we tell others versus the stories we tell ourselves.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, yes. It's a good one in that category.

[Josh Radnor]

And there's a. There's a really funny. We'll get into this. But Barney's thing is really funny meets incredibly tragic meets back to being hilarious.

[Craig Thomas]

Part of his, like, scarred origin story of why he is the way he is in this one. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And how. Yeah, we'll get into it. We'll say that till the end. But. So we opened this episode musically. I was just listening to the Ted Mosby Architect episode. We did. But we were talking. We opened talking a ton about music. But we opened with a Weepies song. Right. Isn't the Weepies song.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, the Weepies.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Which I think Gloria also brought in the writer of the episode. I think she brought us down.

[Josh Radnor]

And Gloria, I believe, was the one who recommended the Decemberist song. Gloria was a real.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, Gloria made a kick ass mix that had a few really good songs on it. And for season two. And we used. Yeah, the Decembers was on there. And the Weepies was on there. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Again, like a great. A great, like, kind of indie. I mean, the Weepies, again, were, I think, just breaking around that time. Like we were really catching people or catching bands. Where did. Where did. Do you remember how this episode was broken? Like, what was the. What was the germ of this?

[Craig Thomas]

I think we won. I mean, I think we loved the idea of everyone's virginity story. We liked the idea of meeting a sibling. Right. We hadn't done it until we'd met Marshall's brothers. And the idea of meeting a sibling and rounding out the world. This is a real rounding out the world episode. We liked meeting Robin's sister. Getting a peek into that, seeing Robin as all of a sudden this like very overprotective. Seeing a new side of Robin. Overprotective big sister. And the idea that it spark everyone having to kind of volunteer their story. That's actually a pretty good hymnum form. We've done that a few times where people have to give up their story. Game night was like that. Give up your embarrassing story. And that we, you know, I guess we were retreading that a little bit. But we liked that there was these stakes built in of what is Robin's sister gonna do?

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

Is she gonna lose her. There's a good. Like you wanna stay tuned to see what's gonna happen there.

[Josh Radnor]

Right?

[Craig Thomas]

And then the bigger question. Cause we don't really know who Robin's sister is. But you care. But Ted and Robin and the I Love youe. Ted blurted I Love youe on the first date. And Robin still has yet to say it once. We thought that was. That was interesting. That was a bigger chess move in this episode. And I think without. I think we needed that. I remember feeling like we needed that because we're like any. Any show could do. Here's a few funny virginity stories. But what's happening in the present day? Um.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost like the virginity stories are the bottle episode. Robin saying I love you is moving the chess piece forward.

[Craig Thomas]

Is moving the chess piece forward.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And also getting that side of Ted. His architect Doric side of he wants to go.

[Josh Radnor]

The Empire State Building debut of Ted's quasi sexual fascination with the Empire State Building.

[Craig Thomas]

His anthropomorphizing the Empire State Building to be his friend or girlfriend. Yes. This is the beginning of that.

[Josh Radnor]

People still, like, tell me Empire State Building stories as if I have the thing. I have maybe other architectural things that movie, but not that one. Although I can see it. We have a little balcony outside our. Outside our bedroom. And I can see the Empire State Building for me.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really funny. I love. You've become the spokesperson for a very specific fetish.

[Josh Radnor]

Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

That's. I'm the same. That's the only way I can get aroused either. No, no, that's not me. What's happening?

[Josh Radnor]

They're like furries, but they're like empies. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform. You can build your site, accept payments, market your brand and so much more. All with Squarespace.

[Craig Thomas]

And here's here's the best part. We use Squarespace for this show. Our website for this show is this very show. This very show. So this is real. We have skin in the game here. Alec, you use Squarespace to do so many different things for this show and go talk about it. I do.

[Alec Lev]

We use Squarespace to build the website. And I have zero website building skills. That's not a thing I can do. But with Squarespace, you really just sort of imagine the picture that you want. If you go to our website right now, how we made your mother.com, and you just see our logo and you see a whole bunch of things you can click, which is, I guess, what a website is. A whole bunch.

[Craig Thomas]

You don't have to explain the entire. You don't have to go back that far. People do kind of know what a.

[Josh Radnor]

Website is now, but Al Gore invented the Internet.

[Craig Thomas]

But that's a good indication that you really don't know what you're doing. And yet you made a great website using Squarespace.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, think about this. Without Squarespace, we would not have a way to get those wonderful letters we read on the air, the voice notes of people telling them how much this show means to them. So that is all through squarespace.

[Alec Lev]

That is 100% true. The design is beautiful. There's all these templates you could start with to give you a consistent look if you're not a web designer like I am not.

[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

So go to squarespace.com yourmother for a free trial and use code your mother to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hi, this is Jill Schlesinger, CBS News business analyst, certified financial planner, and the host of the Jill on Money podcast. With the new year upon us, there's no better time to take control of your financial life. And the Jill on Money Podcast is here to help. It's your questions that make it possible for me to provide unconventional and, I hope, entertaining insights on your money and more importantly, on your life. Follow and listen to Jill on Money wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show. Where did falafel. What? She says, instead of saying I love you, she says falafel.

[Craig Thomas]

Falafel. We already mentioned Rob Greenberg once at the refrigerator. Joke idea. Hilarious. Writer Rob Greenberg always used to talk about what are the funniest words to say. We knew we wanted Robin to have this kind of glitched brain melt moment of not knowing, not being able to say I love you, but wanting to say something. And Rob for sure pitched falafel, which really was also really made me laugh. All that. I had forgotten that it was falafel. Rob always says the funniest words are falafel, baba ganous.

[Josh Radnor]

It's all Middle Eastern food.

[Craig Thomas]

It's all Middle Eastern foods.

[Josh Radnor]

Halloumi is probably in there.

[Craig Thomas]

It's probably in there. And he's. Yeah, I think he pitched falafel and just broke us all up. Like it has.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it also. Like it has enough.

[Craig Thomas]

I love you. I love the rhythm.

[Josh Radnor]

Your lips and teeth do similar things in your tongue.

[Craig Thomas]

So.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Why is she saying the word falafel to him in that moment? What is Ted's reaction to that? Why did she just say falafel to me? Is she having some sort of brain event?

[Josh Radnor]

So Robin's sister is played by Lucy Hale, who now is an enormous star. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Huge star. Yeah. But this is before, right? Pretty. Pretty Little Liars.

[Josh Radnor]

I think so. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. She was great. Or maybe she had just started. God, I can't remember the timeline. She just started it. So she was kind of already known and we put. Yeah. So it's great to have her on there. She's great.

[Josh Radnor]

Did she also. Am I misremembering this? Did she also. Was she on a Disney show with David, Ted's son?

[Craig Thomas]

Well, Selena Gomez was.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, is that right? Was on Wizards of Waverly. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

Wizards of Waverly Place. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But I wonder. I might be misremembering that we seem.

[Craig Thomas]

So old right now, but.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, no, she was terrific. I mean, she was kind of also like, Koby kind of towered over her. And it was kind of like you could really feel. I really liked seeing Kobi's maternal instinct come out.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I think that was another idea of this episode. Like, just seeing that. Oh, she has that side, too. She's a big sister to somebody. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

There's also that thing of, like, when you're 15, 16, 17. You think you're the oldest person that ever lived.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And then when you get older and you actually see 15, 16, 17, you're like, you are a baby.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a baby. You're a baby. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I think about some stuff I did in high school that I'm like, who did. I think I was like, what were we thinking? Like, we were actually putting our lives in deep danger, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

No, absolutely. We shouldn't have been in charge of ourselves to the extent that we were. And we were so convinced that we were adults.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And. Yeah. It's not. It's not an adult. It seemed very young. It seemed very young. The ages discussed in this episode. And Lucy seemed very young. I don't know how old she really was, but. But yeah, you worried about her. There was something vulnerable and, like, you wanted. I liked Robin for wanting to protect her in that way, even though Robin was being completely hypocritical compared to her own experience, which is hilarious.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But I can report in that Lucy Hale was on Wizards of Waverly Place, if that helps.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, Right.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you.

[Craig Thomas]

She was. No, you got it.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you. What was. Who was Kyle? Was this. Okay, so this is how. This is what happened to me when I was watching this episode. I thought, that kid's hilarious. He seems familiar. Where do I know him from? And you know how I know him? Because this is, I think, the deepest cut in joke in this episode. So when Ted tells his kids, she went forward with. She had sex with Kyle, she got pregnant, she had quintuplets, and then her life. What, she died. I don't know. It's just. I actually was like, did Stephen Lloyd write this joke like this?

[Craig Thomas]

It's very dark.

[Josh Radnor]

Very dark. But I know that Ryan Pinkston is his name.

[Craig Thomas]

Ryan Pinkston.

[Josh Radnor]

I know him because he was on the show Quintuplets that you and Carter wrote on, that I went to a taping of because my girlfriend at the time was in the show.

[Craig Thomas]

I forgot that was. But we didn't meet at that point.

[Josh Radnor]

No, no, we didn't meet, but I went to a taping, and I remember this. I remembered him from that show. But you make a quintuplets joke.

[Craig Thomas]

We do.

[Josh Radnor]

Which had to have been only for the two of you.

[Craig Thomas]

It was for the. No, no, it was. It was revenge for several writers that had to. Oh.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh. There were a couple people in the.

[Craig Thomas]

Writer who had to do a very lengthy tour of duty. I think the show Quintuplets lasted one season, but worked as many Hours as nine seasons of How I Met your Mutter. In terms of the writer's room, well, the quality spoke for itself. Hold for tears.

[Josh Radnor]

Wait, who else was on?

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, so Stephen Lloyd, Gloria Keller von Kellett, who wrote this episode, Chris Harris, I think briefly was imprisoned in the quintuplets writers room. And Carter and I were the briefest of all of them. We finagled our way. We had all signed deals with 20th at around the same time. All of those writers and Carter and I, we smelled trouble right away being on that show. We were just like put on there to write one script, but we weren't like full time writers on there. And it was still TBD where we were going to be put. And we got our agent to beg us out. And I think we called the studio too. We said, we cannot be on this. And by the way, I want to hit pause. I love Andy Richter. Ryan Pinkston was great. It was really. He was great in this episode. And there was a lot of talented people. It was just seven days a week to write a kind of up the middle family show that none of the writers were that excited about. It was just like one of those. And Carter and I basically started carving our Shawshank tunnel out of that writer's room like very early. And we got out of there somehow miraculously, and these other writers got stuck there for like the full season.

[Josh Radnor]

But didn't you also have an episode go like get taped?

[Craig Thomas]

We did. We shot the. We wrote the second episode of Quintuplas.

[Josh Radnor]

Not to brag, but I think that Carter, I remember telling me like it was actually quite exciting to be on set when an episode with words you had written.

[Craig Thomas]

It's the only other multi camera sitcom credit Carter and I had or still have. We've written some single camera and some animated and some this and that, but we have not. That's our entire multicam resume before him. Yim.

[Josh Radnor]

But this is like the deepest. This is such a deep cut Hollywood comedy thing of like that Ryan is playing Kyle. You have a quintuplets joke like that just was like for like a handful of people.

[Craig Thomas]

It was for a hand. I mean, it works on its own. It's like it stayed. The idea of her having quintuplets from like one pregnancy is like. It fits the bit of like this incredibly unrealistically terrible. You know, it's future Ted scaring his kids straight, right?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

But the fact that it lined up to also be a quintuplets reference when half of the writers room of Hamish To Mother had a slightly traumatizing sort of Shawshank like time there. And we, yeah, we got out and we said to ourselves, when we got out, Carter. And I was like, I remember when we left that writer's room, it was already clear it was going to be not very fun in there. And when we left, we felt like we were in. It was the scene in the war movie where, like, we're going home back to the States, but our brothers in arms are still stuck in the shit, you know? And we thought to ourselves, if we can possibly like, send back for these writers, we're going to go build a new life, but we're not going to forget about you guys. And it's true, we. I mean, there were some of our dear friends. So we later. The quintuplets, I think was long since canceled. We didn't rescue them from that. But I'm really trashing quintuplets more than, I mean, to here, by the way. By the way. But we got all of those writers onto How Much yout Mother. Yeah, eventually. That's why that reference is so crazy. And Ryan's.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, Kai. I mean, the part Ryan picks and plays is really funny. It's not that big, but it's really.

[Craig Thomas]

He knew the mission. He understood the mission. He really does. He's all Faux Hawk all the time.

[Josh Radnor]

Looks like hotness runs in the family. And I loved Cody.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, you say things.

[Josh Radnor]

You say things. Oh, wow. You say things.

[Craig Thomas]

The way Kobe played, that was so funny. This scandalized, kind of prudish. Oh, oh, my stars. Kind of like. Yeah, I like it.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so funny. The. The. It's almost like code switching, right? Like you're like a cool person who hangs out in a bar and has sex when you want and all. It's like if it's your younger sister, you become like.

[Craig Thomas]

And I also like the subtext of it too, that she Kobe, that she Robin had, you know, grew up too fast, right? She was Robin Sparkles. It's very interesting to me. I was trying to do the math and I didn't even know myself. Like, where does this virginity with the gay boyfriend, where does that fall in the Robin Sparkles timeline? Is she Robin Sparkles during that? Is Robin Sparkles after that? We conveniently didn't say. And I don't know that I have an answer. But the idea that she wants to protect her younger sister because she was Robin didn't feel protected as this child star and had a series and we see later in series that she had an obsession with James Van Der Beek. Not actually James Van Der Beek. His character Simon.

[Josh Radnor]

Such a funny episode.

[Craig Thomas]

A very funny episode. We see that she has some scars, so she wants to protect her younger sister, which I love Robin for that.

[Josh Radnor]

Coby also really made me laugh when she's day drinking and they're like, you've had whatever, 3pm she's like, that's why I need your help.

[Craig Thomas]

That's why I need your help. So funny.

[Josh Radnor]

Little throwaway drunk lines on How I Met yout Mother are often so funny.

[Craig Thomas]

So funny. Yeah. I need to see some penguins, like, right now.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Is my favorite Ted one. Yeah. I was just gonna say, in addition to forgetting the quintuplets joke entirely and being delighted by that. And I made a note too, that we had to talk about that. I'm so thrilled that you also caught and remembered that because of your super weird trajectory. That was maybe the first time we're in the same room together. The soundstage where quintuplets was shot, 100%. It's probably the first time you, me and Car without knowing it in a room together. Yeah, it's really weird.

[Josh Radnor]

It is weird.

[Craig Thomas]

It's super weird. I forgot about that and was delayed by it. And I forgot about just what a big role the movie Dirty Dancing plays in this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

Wait, wait.

[Craig Thomas]

There is so much Dirty Dancing.

[Josh Radnor]

There's so much Dirty Dancing. But I have a question. How did you get that footage? Was it because. Was it a 20th movie?

[Craig Thomas]

I can't remember. Alec, would you look if it's a 20th movie? Because, I mean, the answer is we paid a fucking lot of money for the footage. But once we had that idea of just really spending a lot on cutting Barney in there beautifully. And I think those special effects hold up really graphic. I thought it looked amazing.

[Josh Radnor]

I remember leaving for the day when I remember Neil as Swayze in front of a green screen. Like, I was walking out and I think I saw.

[Craig Thomas]

You're like, how is this our job? How is this. I'm leaving work now. As the Swayze sequence begins. It's really funny. It looks great. I mean, I would be cur. I can't remember how much we paid for the music. That song, Time of youf Life at the end of the episode, the weepy song, I was like, did we spend half a million dollars on fricking music in this episode? And then the licensing the footage. It must have been this episode. Must have deceptively cost a lot to make. Yeah, Yeah, I would imagine. I forget what it was, but it was a lot.

[Josh Radnor]

I loved Marshall saying, stay away from drugs. Except for pot.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And little wink.

[Josh Radnor]

Little wink again. There's a kind of like. There's like everyone. How I met your mother is like, they party, but like, pretty wholesomely they do.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. No one's doing cocaine.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, no one's doing cocaine. It's just like, it's drinking an occasional pot. They sneak some cigarettes. Like, it's very kind of post collegiate New York partying.

[Craig Thomas]

It is. It's. And like adult, like late 20s partying. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I also like this. The debate. The Marshall and Lily debate is the other thing that got this episode going. Like, I remember we were in this area of everyone's story, but we needed something in the present. And the idea that lilies story, Robin's story triggers this debate about Lily's story, triggers this thing for Marshall of. Wait, was I not Neil Armstrong? Was I not Christopher Clone? Is my entire definition of myself changed by this one little piece of information? And also the juiciness of that debate. It reminded me of the debate of, like, should couples go to the bathroom in front of each other? Like from Zip Zip Zip. This idea of like, well, is it losing your virginity if it's just that little. If it's just the lobby. And once we had that, then it lined up so well with the Empire State Building and the lobby versus the top of the building. Once we knew we had that metaphor, it was like that was the universe smiling on us. Like we knew we had a good.

[Josh Radnor]

It's also another example of like Marshall and Lily especially. I would even say Marshall more than Lily, are really invested in the story of Marshall and Lily. Like the iconography, the mythology of Marshall and Lily, what that represents, sense and how inspiring they are to other people.

[Craig Thomas]

They really are Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

As if everyone in line at the Empire sustainability is like, of course we know Marshall and Lily. They're the couple that lost their virginity together.

[Craig Thomas]

Dated State one or college, Adam and Eve. Like self importance as a couple. People rely on us. The entire Judeo Christian tradition is based on us. Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

And if this falls, society itself can't keep going.

[Craig Thomas]

And it was great. Also the checkmate moment of Marshall saying the lobby doesn't count. I remember that was a great way to. Very efficient way to pay off the end of their story. And the idea too of how we edit our own stories, that's another thing I like. Cause future Ted is always editing his stories for his kids and sometimes just lying to them for the Quintuplets bit here, but the idea of self editing your own stories. Barney is self mythologizing his virginity loss to cover up something actually very painful in this episode. And Marshall and Lily both agree in the end, the story's better if it doesn't count. We lost our virginity to each other. That's what we're going with. And just the idea that the way we frame our own stories to ourselves, it matters. It matters for our mental health. It matters for our self definition. And they even give Barney that gift at the end of letting him have it.

[Josh Radnor]

A true and honest recounting is almost impossible because memory is always doing its tricks and edits and backflips and self justifications and all. All that stuff. Right. It's like, yeah, it's very. So all we really have is our perspective on things. Or. Or sometimes, like, I told a story so much that I'm like, well, the story is. Is what the. The memory is. It doesn't even matter what really happened because it's like it's become a separate thing. It's. It's taken on. It's a life of its own. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And you don't know all the facts either at the time. Like, if someone. If before we started recording today's podcast, you said, someone said to me, what's the first time you're in a room together with Josh Radner? I'd be like, in Ocean Park. And when he came into Carter in my development office and auditioned, that was it. No, we were in the same room together shooting the fucking quintuplets episode. There's just weird revisions. It's like, well, no, that's not gonna count. It's the first time I was in a room with Josh is when he auditioned. That's a better story. And on the idea of Ted's virginity story, too, is really great that Ted knows to add to reverse the roles in his virginity story to help talk Robin's sister.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, that's literally what I've said from day one. Is that. That part of the power and comedy of How We Met yout Mother. It's a gender flip. So. So Marshall and Ted are these, like, emotionally open and vulnerable and they. They love relationships and they're sentimental, kind of quote unquote, feminine quality qualities. And where the. The women are these, like, tougher, more unsentimental. You know, guns and cigars in Robin's case.

[Craig Thomas]

And fireworks, Mexican fireworks and the forest fireworks with Ted's high school girlfriend. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And then Barney was always this kind of parody of hyper masculinity yeah. You know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So I. That's a perfect example of it. It's like, it's just a flip. I do remember she was very funny, by the way. Ted.

[Craig Thomas]

She was funny. You guys were both funny in these. In the mirror roles of those scenes. Like Ted being a dick. At first it was like, that doesn't seem like Ted.

[Josh Radnor]

I loved. It was almost like, Ted Mosby, architect. Like, I love getting play with Ted's face. I love getting to play something unexpected like that. That was always really fun.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that was a good flip.

[Josh Radnor]

It made me laugh when Barney said, I'll pay you $10,000 for that diary for Robin's high school.

[Craig Thomas]

Immediately, that was such a good. Yeah, that was one of my favorite, like, I forgot about it jokes.

[Josh Radnor]

And then when she's describing all the things her and Kyle has done, Marshall says, even Kyle gets to do that.

[Craig Thomas]

Even Kyle gets to do that. Oh, my God, the old married couple.

[Josh Radnor]

So tech flag. Do you know what I'm going to say? Like, outdated tech? What's the thing Jenna and Angela say? They say, like, old tech or old tech.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think something like that. Do you remember they had a phrase for it? Crap, I forgot. Old tech. Okay, what was the old tech?

[Josh Radnor]

When Katie says, I already put it up on my MySpace.

[Craig Thomas]

My MySpace. I called it out. I said MySpace. Watching other. There it is. MySpace. Robin Sparkles also was on MySpace when we launched it. You know what I liked getting to. This is the top bunk, bottom bunk joke. This is the great thing about a long running show. You can say, we said this joke in the pilot, Marshall. When the bottom bunk moves, the top bunk moves too. It's just physics. The idea that a season and a half later you get to see that joke. That's again, filling in the mythology. And I really love that it rewards somebody that remembers that from the first episode of the series. But it stands on its own if you don't remember that. And it's hilarious to act out. And the idea, oh, my God, Marshall's saying, I lent you my Walkman. The idea that I lent you my Walkman so Ted could listen to cassette tapes, I guess, while they fucked underneath him. He's like, the bed rattled.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I let you listen to the Proclaimers while we did it.

[Josh Radnor]

I loved. I remember getting to do that. And it was. It's funny because I liked the way I did. I said, please don't. Is that what I said?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. And you were all curled up like a little.

[Josh Radnor]

Curled up, like traumatized. Like, trying to swaddle myself.

[Craig Thomas]

You were swaddling yourself. Swadd. It was your little head peeking out. You're just a head.

[Josh Radnor]

But what I like about it is it's essentially like the joke. Like, it's not a theater joke. You need the camera cut for that joke to, like, truly land.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. It's a cut wide. Yep.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a cut wide. Yeah, exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

It is a. Yes. It was a thing of beauty getting to put that together.

[Josh Radnor]

That was great. Yeah. So then, yeah, the Dirty Dancing footage, I really think is like an extraordinary thing.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And what is it? Is it Marshall who says, damn you, Swayze, like, because he just. He couldn't get. She's like the wind.

[Craig Thomas]

She's like the wind. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And it's back again. And. Oh, okay. And who. I, I. This also felt like a Stephen Lloyd joke when. What does Ted say to the guy who says, thank you, man. I was going up there to jump.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

What does he say to him?

[Alec Lev]

Like, Ted is saying, see, I say I love you.

[Craig Thomas]

I love you.

[Alec Lev]

And he says I love you to the guy.

[Craig Thomas]

It was in simple I love you. It was the benevolence of the universe. It was the most.

[Josh Radnor]

The very thing that Ted, that he thought ruined his life in the pilot, ends up saving the life.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm blurting out it. I love you way too soon. That is even sooner than you blurted it to Robin. He only knew that guy one time.

[Josh Radnor]

That guy needed it. That guy's life depended on him.

[Craig Thomas]

God bless Ted Mosby. Yeah, that may have been a Steven Lloyd.

[Josh Radnor]

It feels like a Steven Lloyd.

[Craig Thomas]

Steven Lloyd is a genius writer. All nine seasons found to mother just about. And the dark jokes are often often Steven. But Ted saved a life there. My God.

[Josh Radnor]

I know.

[Craig Thomas]

This is an eventful present day episode. So you need stuff in the present, like people's lives being saved.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Well, it's also like, it's a sweet thing where you, you know, on our show there were literal background actors. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But in our lives. Like, I sometimes think about this, like if I'm having dinner with my wife somewhere, like, we're the protagonists of the dinner. Like, we're the main. We're the series regulars. Right. Of the dinner and the life and people are background. But also, like, I think we've talked about this, but there's that definition in that book, Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows. That Sonder. Did we talk about that Sonder?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think so. Yes. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that, that, that. The idea, the realization that everyone. You pass on the street, in the traffic. Every single person has an incredibly. As rich an interior life as you.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And as, you know, heartbreaking and dimensional a life as you do.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think it's funny when you, especially in New York City, when you're kind of, you know, bumping into people like, like billiard balls or whatever.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, just to be like. To see this guy, like, oh, he was going up there to throw himself off the building and a couple kind words from the gang and he's. He's not going to, you know, and again, it's also. So it's another. It's more evidence of the sweetness and benevolence of the How I Met yout Mother universe.

[Craig Thomas]

Right. That you can save a life without even knowing it or meaning to. Because there's goodness. This gang brings goodness into the universe somehow.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you in New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials back to show.

[Alec Lev]

By the way, we're also learning that line. With nearly 200 rights holders over The Life of Dirty Dancing. It was Lionsgate that owned it during this time.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay. Yeah. I think we paid out. I think we paid a lot of money for that. And the music, that was. I'm so glad we did. I freaking love that we did that sequence in this episode and that it ends the episode. It comes back right at the end.

[Josh Radnor]

So it's very sweet how Ted is the one who kind of saves the day with Katy.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. I really like that, too.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, But I do.

[Craig Thomas]

By lying. By a convenient.

[Josh Radnor]

Lying. By lying. Yeah, sure.

[Craig Thomas]

But a rearranging of the facts. More what he did.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, again, it's almost like the Chris Harris joke of the art teacher. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

All the same words.

[Craig Thomas]

See it again. It's all the same word. Yeah, it's all the same words.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. All the same words. It's a very different kind of reliable, like a very trusted. Kind of How I Met yout Mother bit like that. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And it was. Right. He was a dick. He was going. He was Ryan. Ryan's character. He was a dick. They rescued him from a jerk.

[Josh Radnor]

Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

Another good thing happened there.

[Josh Radnor]

So I just want to go back to the. At the end of the episode that when they ask Barney, like, what was the real virginity. Losing your virginity story.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And he starts listing movie plots.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So he lists. What are the movies? He lists Fast Times, the Rich and.

[Craig Thomas]

On High, Risky Business.

[Josh Radnor]

Risky Business. War Games.

[Craig Thomas]

War Games is my favorite. There's not even a sex scene in that one.

[Josh Radnor]

But again, these are like Gen X touchstone movies. Like, this is like Gen X. Yeah. Fast Times, War Games.

[Craig Thomas]

Risky Business. Fast Times. War Games. Dirty Dancing.

[Josh Radnor]

Dirty dancing. Iconic Gen X 80s movies.

[Craig Thomas]

What percentage of people in their 20s watching it now have seen this?

[Josh Radnor]

But the gang. This is like their cultural ephemera. Is that the word? Like, this is their lexicon. Like, they absolutely would know he's describing these movie plots. And then when they get to the actual story, he was 24. It was his mom's friend.

[Craig Thomas]

She kept calling him Barry.

[Josh Radnor]

She kept calling him Barry.

[Craig Thomas]

We also act this out later in series. This is like a bunk bed type of thing. We see that. We see some of this later.

[Josh Radnor]

And then his sheets smelled like cigarettes for. What was it?

[Craig Thomas]

Menthols.

[Josh Radnor]

Menthols.

[Craig Thomas]

Menthols.

[Josh Radnor]

And the thing that I thought was so, like.

[Craig Thomas]

And he was old.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, he's 24.

[Craig Thomas]

He was like, 20. 23 or something. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

The thing that was so sweet and so, like, good friend is like, they know that Barney dwells happier in, like, delusion. Land. Like, he is happier in fantasy land, and they give it to him, and they're happier, too.

[Craig Thomas]

They realize they're happier. They're happier.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, his actual story is too crushingly depressing. So sad to bring into the booth. So they're like, tell us again.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, tell us about Kellerman's.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Did anyone put Baby in the corner? God, no.

[Craig Thomas]

That was one of my paralysis now. Did anybody ever put Baby in the corner? Such a weird question to ask somebody. It's such a sweet, like, crazy way.

[Josh Radnor]

To take care of your friend.

[Craig Thomas]

It is. It's sweet. It's very sweet and reminds you that Barney is. It's all smoke and mirrors. You know what I mean? Covering up a lot of old wounds. I was trying to do the math, as with Robin Sparkles. And again, we left it conveniently vague. Where does, like, Barney as a hippie and Shannon and all that stuff. Where does that fall? That all falls after. So that's mid-20s. That's years after college. Or like, I think we did say that Shannon never. They never had sex. Maybe it was supposed to be before and it was a college or just post college. And she kept him stringing him along, but then ended up having sex with the other guy. So maybe it all does add up. I'll ask our astute listeners to let me know if what we did on our own show.

[Josh Radnor]

It's probably not a thread you need to pull. It's. It'll all come collapsing.

[Craig Thomas]

I don't know why I'm pulling it. I always like to admit it that every now and again, I'm like, I'm not sure.

[Josh Radnor]

But it also, you know, it's pure. It's pure comedy. It's hilarious. But it also is like, Barney's been hanging with these people enough and long enough, and they've been hanging with him enough that he does say, like, he starts revealing more of himself, you know, even though he's like. He slams it shut. They all slam it shut.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. But they learned something about him there that they didn't know. That helps explain him. And he actually. I really, like Neil, played that, actually very heavy of heart, that moment where he felt, okay, here's what it really was. And he looks really wounded as he. As he reveals that.

[Josh Radnor]

But then he looks like a plant that gets watered when he gets to go back into fantasy. I really. I do think one of Neil's comedic superpowers is the quickness with which he.

[Craig Thomas]

Can pivot the turns.

[Josh Radnor]

Like the. There's gonna be a baby. That moment. You know, with Wayne.

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Josh Radnor]

He's just so deft at those. Like, it's incredible. So that feels like we covered it. Is there anything else that's kicking around? Craig, for that episode? It feels. It was a fun one.

[Craig Thomas]

It was a really fun one. I like it. I really like these ones where we get to know everybody better. It's not all set in the present, and yet the stakes of we're meeting a sister, we're moving, the relationship of Ted and Robin is moving somewhere forward. Marshall and Lily have a kind of mini crisis. But I love. I love filling in the lore. I think it's a great way to put it.

[Josh Radnor]

And it also feels like a kind of debut of more of Ted's, like, fun facts, like trivia Ted, like, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Also, you know what I like? They never get to the top of the Empire State Building. There's a little bit of Waiting for Godot. Or Godot, however we properly say it. Alec. I don't know. Theater people say it's Gadot. Right. With, like, the New Year's Eve episode where they never get to up the party. Or the Empire State Building episode where they never get to the top of the Empire State Building. There's kind of this mini lesson in there that the journey is more important than the destination. We actually enact that. That in the series, and that is in some ways, the point of the series as well.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, the thing of, like, if Seinfeld were happening today, like, you know that. That runner, like, someone does a Twitter account, I think of, like, Seinfeld.

[Craig Thomas]

No, I don't think I know that.

[Josh Radnor]

I actually was cast in one. It was really funny. But they just imagine if Seinfeld was happening today, and they kind of use modern things, you know. You know, Kramer gets in a Twitter fight with so and so, you know, stuff that wasn't going on then. And I have this thing because, you know, they discontinued making pennies the U.S. treasury.

[Craig Thomas]

Yep. And Ted would be so upset.

[Josh Radnor]

There's a part of me that wants to know how Ted would respond to the discontinuation of the penny. I feel like he would gather the gang together for, like, he'd put together a little slideshow on the history of the penny, and he'd do, like, a little funeral, like a eulogy. A eulogy for the penny.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I think you're right. A little penny eulogy. That is such a great. See, I love hearing that from you because I saw that story and I didn't immediately think of it.

[Josh Radnor]

Just occurred to me Now, I didn't even think.

[Craig Thomas]

It just occurred to you right now?

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

But I love that. That shows that, like, how, you know, the actor who plays Ted, there's something like, you feel that. Like that just. You actually just felt that. You're like. I wish I knew what this character would say about that. But I think we just. That's it. That's what he would do. He would have a little. He would call together a small funeral, a tasteful funeral for the Penny. But of course, he already would have had his daughter named Penny at this point in the timeline, I think. Right. Speaking of which, do we want. Is there anything we wanted to talk about?

[Alec Lev]

I was just gonna ask why we haven't been recording in a couple of weeks.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, I guess we buried the lead. We can talk about it. Sure. My wife and I had a son. We had a baby. We had a baby. Human. And it's been about three and a half weeks. It'll be a month in a couple days. And we're just delighted and exhausted.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, man, we're so happy for you. We're so happy for you.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you.

[Craig Thomas]

And you're a hero to be here doing a podcast with a teeny little baby in the other room. That is amazing.

[Josh Radnor]

So we have received. I've received a number of messages, people saying, I'm loving season two of the podcast, but I really miss questions and observations from a clinical psychologist who's never seen How I Met yout Mother, who also happens to be married to Josh. Where's that segment? And that segment is Feeding a Small Child.

[Craig Thomas]

Now you know the answer. Yes. I've seen that question a lot from fans of the show. And, like, first of all, props to Jordana for making a huge outsized impact. Her contributions were very missed, but now we get to say why, and it's the best reason possible.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. So maybe I don't know if she'll come back with the frequency that she. But I hope if she's inspired, she'll drop a. You know, drop one in an episode.

[Craig Thomas]

I miss it. I miss it. But this is.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I get her questions and observations because I sit there and watch the show with her. So I'm still getting them.

[Craig Thomas]

It's just.

[Josh Radnor]

You guys aren't. Okay, well, but maybe one day, no pressure. Jordana, she doesn't like to be pressured.

[Craig Thomas]

She's got bigger, bigger things going on. But we're so happy for you, Josh. Well, thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you for the time off. It was necessary. We needed a break.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, no one will have known that the episodes will have all dropped in order. But we banged out a whole bunch of them knowing what was coming and we took a little break and this is the first one back after, so it's very exciting. We got to the exact midpoint of season two and this starts off the second half, this first time in New York. So it was very, very symmetrical.

[Josh Radnor]

My son already has great timing.

[Craig Thomas]

Great timing, just like his dad. And it's the best. We're very happy for you.

[Alec Lev]

Well, and in. And just in live, live time. Jordan has just thanked us all right now for saying this to her right now in our text messages.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, I didn't see it. You are welcome.

[Alec Lev]

Hear it a lot.

[Josh Radnor]

But also I asked if I thought this was really funny. I asked if Jordana and my son could listen in on the episode. And Craig really made me laugh because he said, I think it's high time we see how our pod plays in the advertiser coveted 0 to 1 month old demo.

[Craig Thomas]

Look, everyone's trying to get that audience. We need to know those smartless guys. Huge with Those, huge with 0 to 11 month we got to see if we can do it. Amazing. Well, this was like a little take your son to work day almost kind of thing because, you know, they're. Jordana, they're, they're in the other room and they're listening on. So, so much love to you all.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, thanks.

[Craig Thomas]

Amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing.

[Josh Radnor]

It's the best. Thank you so much.

[Alec Lev]

All right. When we are back with the segment that we like to call all general questions.

[Craig Thomas]

General, general questions. That wasn't bad.

[Josh Radnor]

That was dead on. That was dead on. Can't you just think them, Alec, in your.

[Alec Lev]

I, I, I absolutely can, but I have not done that, I feel because.

[Craig Thomas]

We always talk about how much it sucks and I believe it in its sucky state to be accurate.

[Alec Lev]

I do, I do need to tell the world that my, my, my, my best friend of, of 40 plus years now, at our recent dinner, Craig did claim ownership.

[Craig Thomas]

It was very awkward over the salute. I know.

[Alec Lev]

I went to elementary school. I went to elementary school and high school and college with him. So he was in college saluting like an idiot with all of us. And over dinner he just casually said, I think that was mine.

[Craig Thomas]

And you know, you seemed very confident. That was not true.

[Alec Lev]

It was so childish and stupid. It really feels like it had to be had to come from me.

[Craig Thomas]

I always felt like it was from you. But of course it predated me meeting you guys in College. And it just. I inherited it from you, and I put it on the show. I think I did. We ascertained that it was one of the few things I did ask for permission to do. Usually I don't tell people I'm putting something on the show, and then they hate me. This one, I think. And also, you guys just liked it, but you guys had a moment at dinner where it was like, no, no. It's very much like this episode. First time in New York. The sort of revisionist history of what we want to believe. But I thought Joel caved pretty quickly. Maybe he seemed like, maybe that was Alex. But he did claim it. He did, for a second, claim it.

[Alec Lev]

He doesn't have a podcast, though, so fuck that. Okay, so just a lovely note here from Alex at Cosmonauts. I don't have a question this week, but I have to say this is my favorite episode of TV of all time. I like Ted. I'm a huge Empire State Building nerd, and I love telling everyone my fun facts when I visit there. Also, I'm like Robin, that I struggle confronting things like saying, I love you. Himyum is my autistic special interest. And this particular episode is when I rewatch at least once a week. This episode is my number one source of comfort in my life and gives me the feeling of being in New York with my favorite characters. Despite being a British teenage girl, this episode is everything to me. And thank you, Josh and Kobe, for bringing these particular relatable characters to the screen.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, that's an amazing message. I love hearing that. I'm so glad that that meant that. What was. What was her name?

[Alec Lev]

Did we say Osmonauts?

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, well, at Cosmonauts, we are very excited.

[Josh Radnor]

The Brits sure name their kids differently than we do.

[Craig Thomas]

That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I'm so glad the episode means that to you, Josh. Again, when we make these things and you put the message in the bottle and you throw it out into the ocean, you can never know it's going to find Ed Cosmanovsky.

[Josh Radnor]

Especially when you're doing 22 to 24 a season, you don't have time to think about the ripple of the thing.

[Craig Thomas]

You can't.

[Josh Radnor]

You're just trying to. To complete the end.

[Craig Thomas]

But this is the gift. We get these things. That's why I say the messages are the best part. Cause you get to. This is it coming back to us. And it's just. It is just a glorious thing.

[Josh Radnor]

I also find Craig, I noticed this thing because I wrote and directed and starred in two movies, which is, like, an insane thing to do in a lot of ways. And one of the reasons I liked it was because it was so overwhelming and it required so much of me that I couldn't spend too long deliberating and ruminating over things. I just had to shoot from the hip. Instinct. And I actually made some great calls just instinctually. And I think you and Carter, like, on some level, it was too overwhelming to let your brain do alone.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So you guys probably. That's why there are a lot of kind of patterns and things that were, like, almost more like from a Jungian unconscious that fans pick up on, that you guys were probably operating on a different level because you just didn't have that much time to think about it from, like, whatever. They either love or right back.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And it was all instinct. I mean, we learned a lot from writing that one episode of Quintuplets. But, like, not everything. I mean, that was the road map. But, you know, you. There was a few times.

[Josh Radnor]

You know how they say a comedy. You should punch up? Yeah. You're really punching down.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm really punching. You know what?

[Josh Radnor]

This is like, all right, no more quintuplets jokes. I'm cutting you off.

[Craig Thomas]

It's so bad. It's so bad. All these wonderful writers were on it. There was a lot of weird. We got some good things out of that show. It was like, such long hours that everyone still carries their baggage. That was in that writer's room of just the long hours.

[Alec Lev]

Anyway, this question is more from me, Craig. How do I put this? Ted loses his virginity to a girl named Molly. As you know, my first time.

[Craig Thomas]

Are we going here?

[Alec Lev]

I've talked to her this morning. I've been given permission. My first time was with a woman, a girl named Molly, on August 18, which is your birthday.

[Craig Thomas]

So every time it's my birthday, one of the first texts I get is from Alec going, happy me losing my virginity day.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

And I'm like, you just ruined my birthday again. Every year.

[Alec Lev]

My question is legitimately, was she named for my Molly?

[Craig Thomas]

I would have told you at the time. I think it might just be one of these weird fucking coincidences. Why wouldn't I? No, I think I would have. I can't. God, I wish we had Gloria on. Or somebody like. I don't remember. I mean, maybe. Maybe I was giving you a little shout out, like Josh just said, it was all a blur. You're running out of instinct. You're grabbing things from life or Maybe I did it unconsciously, but I don't remember thinking, oh, Alec will see this, and it will mess with his brain. I wish I could say that. And that you ruined my birthday every year with this, but.

[Alec Lev]

All right.

[Craig Thomas]

So.

[Alec Lev]

Del O say owusu. Who is writing to us from the great how we made your mother Facebook fan group, which everyone should join, says, I've never been to New York. It's on my bucket list. It's been since I was a kid. I thought that's where the famous people live. I wanted to visit Carrie Fisher in her apartment there because I read somewhere that's where she lives.

[Craig Thomas]

I love that, by the way. I would have loved that, too. Yeah, that sounds amazing.

[Alec Lev]

What are three things you'd like the world to know about the city? What would you recommend?

[Craig Thomas]

Good question.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I went to NYU for grad school, and to me, New York for years was just like. I just felt comfortable below 14th Street. I felt like downtown New York was my New York.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But now. Now, my wife, when we met, she introduced me to this incredible neighborhood in Brooklyn where we live now. And I gotta say, like, if you come to New York, don't sleep on Brooklyn. Like, Brooklyn has some of the best restaurants, some of the best parks.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And my parents were just here meeting their grandson for the first time, and they had such a. Like, funny breakfast at this. Do you know. Do you guys know juniors on Flatbush? That's like, famous cheesecake.

[Craig Thomas]

Cheesecake in the world.

[Josh Radnor]

I sent them there because they were staying nearby.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yes.

[Josh Radnor]

And they just had, like, this hilarious time with, like. They made friends. They made, like.

[Craig Thomas]

They made like.

[Josh Radnor]

All the tables were all kind of talking to each other. And if you're looking. Sometimes I think New York, like, Manhattan can feel a little bit like, okay, yeah, this is the center of capitalism, and this is the. Where the UN is, and this is where Broadway is. And it can feel shiny and big and exciting, but Brooklyn and, you know, you could say Queens, like, any of these other boroughs, they feel like more like, this is where people live. This is where people send their kids to school. This is where people. Not that people don't grow up in Manhattan. They. My wife did, but. And Alec, you did, right?

[Craig Thomas]

I did, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. So. But there's something about. I've just been delighted how much I love living in Brooklyn. So just shout out to Brooklyn.

[Craig Thomas]

I would. Yes. And that. And say that. My wife is from Park Slope, so I am in college, my 20s, spent a ton of time there with her. We got married In Prospect Park.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

Prospect park is beautiful. It's created by. It's. By the people who brought you Central Park.

[Josh Radnor]

Olmsted. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

If you like Central Park. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But Olmstead apparently thought that Prospect park was the crown jewel. Like, he thought that was the better part.

[Craig Thomas]

I think that that was his preferred achievement. And it is. It's beautiful. Definitely. Go. Yeah, go check that out if you're here too.

[Josh Radnor]

If you have a dog or a baby.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Prospect park, you've now got both.

[Craig Thomas]

So you can speak from experience.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

And my choice, I would actually say, is Central Park. I did grow up in Manhattan, but I have a specific recommendation for folks, which is get there early. Get there nice and early. Start on the Corner, start on 59th and 5th, and don't take a map, just start walking.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, agree.

[Alec Lev]

And if you just head north, you can walk for hours and hours and you'll just find one, one hidden gem after another without. Without making any plans.

[Josh Radnor]

You'll get all your meals there. There.

[Alec Lev]

You'll. You'll find something for the kids. You'll find something for everyone. I. I do that in, in when I go to New York now, I tend to just walk from one corner to the other.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

Of the city of the.

[Craig Thomas]

That would be. That would be my thing, to just walk. Just.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, just start walking. And neighborhoods change every 10 to 12 blocks. You'll feel like, oh, the character of the neighborhood. And one other park related thing, every summer I try to see at least one of the Shakespeare in the park productions at the Delacorte, and they just reopened the Delacorte after a huge renovation. There's something about. About seeing Shakespeare in Central park as the sun is setting that is like such a great New York thing to do. Like it really. We saw Twelfth Night recently, which was so wonderful. It's just so much fun to be in New York. And you feel like. You feel the culture, you feel the landscape, you feel the buzz and the excitement, the arts, and it's just wonderful. So go see Shakespeare in the Park.

[Craig Thomas]

I think we'll have announced this by then, too. And maybe I won't say the date yet, but there's gonna be another How I Met yout Mother fundraiser theme concert in June. If you're here in June, look how much Mother Bar, the bar that McGee's McLaren's is based on is McGee's on 55th Street. Those are two good hymn things you could do. But yeah, I just walk. I live down in Tribeca and I walk my dog along the water every day. And it's just like I see the Statue of Liberty every single day.

[Josh Radnor]

You know how you can do, like, the Sex and the City and the Friends walking tours of New York? Is there one for How I Met yout Mother?

[Craig Thomas]

I think that. I'm not sure. That's a great question. You know what? Hey, listeners, let us know if, you know. If there is. I know that himyum stuff is part of other TV tours. Like, there's some TV TV tour that, like, I think is its own bus or something and takes people. They. They stop at, like, the Soup Nazi spot, if that. I'm not sure if that's still open or not, but. And then at McGee's, I think McGee's is like one of the stops of, like, this tour. And they go into the How I Met yout mother bar on 55th there. So I know that at least that part of it is incorporated in some other, bigger tour.

[Alec Lev]

All right, we've got a nice letter to round this out for the. For the episode. Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

All right. Yep. So here is this week's letter. And if you would like to write us a letter that maybe we'll read on the air or drop us a voice note about what How I Met yout Mother means to you or any other How I met your mother related beautiful things you'd like to share with us, we. We always love receiving them. Go to how we made your mother.com h w my m h w my m dot com. Go to contact and just follow the instructions there and tell us things. So here's this week's letter. Hi, Josh and Craig. I've watched him yim so many times. I've come to think of it as a best friend, a pillar I can turn to throughout my life for laughs, joy, comfort, understanding, and a sh to lean on whenever I talk with my sister, my actual best friend and soulmate, in many ways about a hard time either one of us is going through. I frequently relate the situation to himyim. I'll say things like, it's like when Marshall and Lily got in that fight. Or remember when Ted thought this was the greatest tragedy. It's a timeless show that I will always go back to simply because it's given me so many answers in my life. Even when the answer was there is no answer. I love that.

[Craig Thomas]

Me, Tim.

[Josh Radnor]

Sometimes I'll be feeling an intense emotion and pick a specific episode to watch because I know it'll help me feel validated and give me a greater perspective. For instance, when I wanted to tell my boyfriend That I was in love with him but was having a tough time getting it out. I watched first time in New York over and over again just so I could realize I'm not alone. And other people deal with this too. I even went so far as to play the episode for my boyfriend before I had told him. Smart.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

We used to do this thing before. We had said it to each other where we'd be gazing into each other's eyes and we'd go tight lipped because neither of us was ready to say it to the other, but we both knew we wanted to say it to each other and. And we just didn't. I showed him first time in New York, and he knew I was trying to tell him I loved him, but all that could come out was falafel. Sadly, my boyfriend and I broke up a little over four months ago. I'm still madly in love with him, and being able to turn to him yam for guidance during this emotional time has been such a gift. I'm still hoping we'll work our way back to each other. I at least can hold out hope that my yellow umbrella is out there. And I just need to wait a little longer because he's coming as fast as he. He can. Thank you for the gift of your art that has shaped my life. Ali.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow, that's beautiful.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you, Ali. Yeah, you know, it made me think about something that I. I put this actually in liberal arts, and it's attributed to David Foster Wallace, but a lot of stuff is attributed to him that he maybe said but wasn't, didn't originate with him, but it was something along the lines of fiction is the antidote to loneliness.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And it's like that James Baldwin thing, you know, they said he felt so alone until he read Dostoevsky and all these other great authors and realized, oh, they thought they had these feelings too. They had these thoughts too. I'm. I'm actually connected to humanity because. And there's another Wallace thing. Like he says, we're all marooned in our own skulls.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And it's tricky to know, like, am I experiencing, like, am I alone here? Like, like, do, do, do other people feel and ache and hurt and yearn and is it all this? And there's something about making art where you can see, like, oh, it's such a relief when you see, like, oh, Robin has such a hard time saying she loves her boyfriend and so do I. Oh, my God, what a relief. You know, I'm less alone in the world and I think that's one of the real gifts of How I Met yout Mother and all great things, all great art and story is it lets you know you're not alone.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that's beautifully said and I'm just gonna say it guys. Falafel, Falafel.

[Josh Radnor]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven In New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made your Mother is hosted, an executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by Me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Pointe Blue Studios. Our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own Josh Radner with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Joshua Radner's Muse Letters on Substack and check out his music and everything [e-mail] order Craig Thomas's debut novel, that's Not How It Happened, wherever books are sold, and check out his other published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My own Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn more about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. People will in fact dance.

[Craig Thomas]

The real.

[Josh Radnor]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?

[Craig Thomas]

There's a world where legends race across city SK skylines. Romance blossoms in glittering ballrooms, and there's magic around every corner. It's a world known to many as Great Britain. You've seen the action on screen. Now visit the real star of the show. Visit Great Britain to discover more. Go to tripadvisor.com Great Britain.