How We Got Ridonk [with Joe Manganiello] | S2E5 "World's Greatest Couple"

Summary

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How We Made Your Mother – S2E5 "World's Greatest Couple"

Episode: "How We Got Ridonk"

Released: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas
Special Guest: Joe Manganiello
Topic: A deep-dive into “World's Greatest Couple" (HIMYM S2E5), its lasting resonance, and behind-the-scenes with Joe Manganiello (Brad)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of How We Made Your Mother spotlights season two, episode five of How I Met Your Mother, “World’s Greatest Couple”. Hosts Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby) and series co-creator Craig Thomas take listeners through the episode’s blend of comedic pairings and mini-mystery structure. The conversation explores how HIMYM’s explorations of coupledom and heartbreak continue to echo with fans—and welcomes actor Joe Manganiello for an inside look at creating the legendary "Brad & Marshall" bromance, the show's use of character pairings, and hilarious stories from set. Fan voices and letters frame the episode's enduring emotional resonance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Show's Enduring Resonance

• Reading and discussing a touching fan letter from Emma, who related to different HIMYM characters at different times in her life and was inspired to become a filmmaker by the show.
  • Josh Radnor (02:00): “At any different part in your life, you can feel like a different character in the story. Right. She started off feeling like she was part of the Marshall and Lily… and then she revisits 10 years later. No, I'm… in my Ted years.”
• The hosts highlight how viewers shift their identification with HIMYM’s characters over time, and how good art transforms as its audience does.
• Craig (05:17): “I'm grateful to Emma… she came back around to it at this later chapter and sees new things in it. That's really cool. And I'm honored when fans do that.”

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Episode Background – “World’s Greatest Couple”

• The episode is a “play on couplehood” featuring unusual pairings:
  • Barney & Lily: After Lily can’t stand her post-breakup apartment, she moves in with Barney and becomes his “roommate”—hijinks ensue as she acts as “wife” to chase away his one-night stands.
  • Marshall & Brad: Two recently-dumped buddies bond in an over-the-top “bromance” (cue: brunch and musical theater).
  • Ted & Robin: Now the “stable couple” of the group, they observe their friends’ chaos with wry detachment.
• The hosts highlight the clever use of “mini-mysteries” in the episode’s narrative, starting with the visually shocking bedroom scene between Barney and Lily and flashing back to explain how it came to be.
  • Craig (09:36): "So many of our best episodes have some mini mystery in them."
  • Josh (08:56): “Each... There's many episodes that are mysteries. They start off as a mystery.”

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Behind-the-Scenes Details & Visual Easter Eggs

• Lily’s terrible apartment: Inspired by Josh’s own NYU student housing with a bathtub in the kitchen.
  • Josh (10:18): “I lived on 9th street... I had a bathtub in my kitchen.”
• Applauding the HIMYM set and production crew for effects like the Murphy bed breaking through the wall—compared to a New Yorker cartoon or Asher Perlman’s artwork.
  • Craig (13:18): “I had forgotten that when she opens the Murphy bed, it literally rips a hole in the wall and you see her neighbor.”
• Barney’s apartment: Its “Fortress of Barnitude” makes its debut here; it’s filled with sight gags (one towel, one pillow, the default toilet seat, etc.)—a metaphor for his intentionally solitary life.
  • Craig (20:56): “It's just these funny chemical experiments we're running.”

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Hidden Influences & Directorial Choices

• Coen Brothers homage: Craig reveals a visual gag referencing Miller’s Crossing (16:15), where Barney is shot in profile for a long time before the camera pans—revealing Lily seated out of sight.
  • Craig (16:15): “That is a Coen brothers shout out... No one will care or know what I'm talking about, but I'm just gonna do it anyway.”
• Showcasing meta jokes: The fourth wall is played with when Barney points at the “TV wall” that lights up—never showing the actual TV, which Josh compares to Jaws: it’s scarier when unseen (24:07–24:21).

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Thematic Depth: Vulnerability & Change

• Barney’s loneliness is exposed as Lily moves in and brings warmth into his bachelor fortress.
  • Craig (24:44): “He's a scared, scared man. Like, that's what's so interesting about Barney.”
• Lily’s willingness to swallow her pride to escape her hideous apartment is contrasted with her psychological insight into Barney.

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Guest Interview: Joe Manganiello (Brad) [from 33:36]

Introduction & Impact

• Joe recalls being stopped by fans worldwide for “bros at brunch” and “radonk” (34:23).
  • Joe (34:39): “Come on, man, tell me. Come on. How's the zucchini bread. And I'm like, radon, it's redonk.”
• They discuss the global influence of HIMYM—including actors playing their roles in dubbed versions abroad.

Casting Story – How Joe Became Brad

• Craig recounts “how I met Joe Manganiello,” casting him after seeing a Gloria Calderón Kellett–written monologue where Joe played a broken-hearted, overeager personal trainer.
  • Craig (36:50): “Everyone thinks happens a lot… Turns out, it's actually fairly rare. But we saw you… you just popped and stuck in our heads.”
  • Joe shares the inspiring actor lesson: do theater, take every opportunity, and be ready (39:39–41:02).
• Joe auditioned for two small HIMYM roles, chose the law student thinking it might have legs, and got called in to read for Brad—eventually merging the two characters.
  • Joe (42:52): “I thought, well, bouncer or Jimmy, who's in law school with Marshall, might be something that could have legs.”
  • Craig (44:45): “You're Brad now.”

Chemistry with Jason Segel (Marshall)

• Joe and the hosts discuss their instant comedic rapport as two “broken-hearted giants” looking for comfort, leading to hilarious and tender scenes (46:08–55:19).
  • Joe (46:11): “We both understood the assignment... we just got it.”
  • Craig (47:29): “He becomes the Hulk. No. It's so funny. That moment.”
• The real-life inspiration: Carter and a friend actually attended an Alanis Morissette concert together because they couldn’t find dates—mirrored in Brad & Marshall's duo outings (48:50).

The Art of Sitcom Performance

• Joe explains the “science” of sitcom timing and the thrill of riffing with Jason Segel—how after several takes, they began to improvise lines (51:16–52:31).
  • Joe (52:31): “It just took on this whole life where now Jason and I are throwing stuff at each other.”
  • Craig (52:37): “Then openly cry at one point.”
• The vulnerability at the heart of Brad’s ridiculousness: Joe played Brad as someone deeply wounded but sincere, never winking at the camera, and letting the audience judge.
  • Joe (54:12): “If you're winking at the camera... it's just going to fall apart.”
  • Joe (54:50): “I understand him. And I'm going, I'm going to protect his inner child.”

Behind-the-Scenes What-Ifs & Anecdotes

• Joe reveals he was nearly made a season regular, but the network wanted a “stunt cast” / bigger celebrity for the role instead (56:24).
• The failed pilot Living on a Prayer—created by Craig and Carter, starring Joe as an enthusiastic “bro dad” in Pittsburgh, complete with over-the-top accent (58:29).
  • Hilarious story: during a take, Joe’s baby co-star “method acted” by pooping on cue, cracking up everyone on set (59:19).
  • Craig (60:05): “Joe, do you want to come clean and admit that wasn’t the baby? It’s been 20 years…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Changing With the Show

“At any different part in your life, you can feel like a different character in the story.”
—Josh Radnor (02:00)

"A good work of art... changes as you change."
—Josh Radnor (04:36)

On HIMYM's Structure and Tone

"So many of our best episodes have some mini mystery in them."
—Craig Thomas (09:36)

"It's just these funny chemical experiments we're running."
—Craig Thomas (20:56)

On Barney & Lily

"He's a scared, scared man. Like, that's what's so interesting about Barney."
—Craig Thomas (24:44)

On Brad & Marshall Bromance

“They were bros in situations. Can we do that pilot?”
—Craig Thomas (46:08)

“You totally didn’t oversell the Eggs Benny.”
—Joe Manganiello as Brad (55:43)

“If you’re winking at the camera, there’s any form of irony or that it’s not emotionally true… it’s just going to fall apart.”
—Joe Manganiello (54:12)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:00] – Fan letter from Emma; shifting connection to characters through life changes.
• [06:45] – Episode background, title, writer (Brenda Shea).
• [08:51] – The episode’s mystery narrative device.
• [13:18] – Production details: Murphy bed scene, apartment set.
• [16:15] – Miller’s Crossing / Coen Brothers shot tribute.
• [20:56] – “Running chemical experiments”/pairings in the episode.
• [24:21] – Why the “300 inch TV” is never shown, Jaws comparison.
• [33:36] – Special guest Joe Manganiello (Brad) joins.
• [39:39] – Joe’s casting story; monologue origins.
• [42:52] – Blending of character roles: how “Jimmy” became “Brad.”
• [46:11] – Comedy chemistry with Jason Segel.
• [51:16] – Joe Manganiello on sitcom acting and improvisation.
• [54:12] – On performing Brad with sincerity and heart.
• [56:24] – “Almost a season regular”—network wanted a celebrity instead.
• [58:29] – “Living on a Prayer” pilot; Pittsburgh dad.
• [61:00] – Fan letter (Brenda) about Lily’s story inspiring reflection on real-life relationships.
• [63:04] – Josh & Craig reflect: HIMYM is a “whisper of the future self.”
• [65:32] – Episode close.

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Thematic Takeaways

• Art Changes As You Do: Core to both the episode and the podcast—a show like HIMYM doesn’t just reflect our lives, it evolves and takes on new meaning as we change.
• Mini Mysteries: HIMYM's narrative structure using “mystery” isn't just about the “Mother,” but about every character and relationship twist: "How did we get here?"
• Vulnerability and Comedy: Whether in Barney's fortress or Brad’s emotional brunches, the heart of the show lies in its willingness to blend emotional honesty with farce.
• Found Family: Even in craziest pairings, these characters find comfort in each other—the warmth long resonating with both the cast and its fans.

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For Fans & Newcomers

This episode offers both a nostalgic trip through one of HIMYM’s classic “pairings” episodes and a revealing look backstage. The hosts and guests uncover what makes the show special: its risk-taking (in both writing and casting), its ability to grow with its audience, and its legacy of lovable, broken, and hilarious characters—from the tender “radonk” bromance at brunch, to production gags and behind-the-scenes heartbreaks.

“If you have your first heartbreak, or your first career disappointment, the first of anything is the most devastating… you have no evidence that you’re going to survive it.”
—Josh Radnor (63:04)

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Listen For

• The real-life inspirations behind sitcom storylines (brunch, Alanis Morissette, Pittsburgh dads).
• Stories of almost-but-not-quite regulars, TV pilots never seen, cast chemistry that outlived the show.
• Why fans around the world relate to “radonk,” “Eggs Benny,” and HIMYM’s unique blend of heart and humor.

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Next Episode: More episode rewatches, heartfelt fan stories, and special guests from the HIMYM universe.

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Transcript

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[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

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[Emma (Fan)]

See mint mobile.com My name is Emma and I live in Alberta, Canada. I started watching How I Met yout Mother back in high school with my first love and we completely saw ourselves in Marshall and Lily. Unfortunately, like many first love situations, it ended quite painfully a few years later and I couldn't bring myself to watch the show for a long time. I'm 27 this year and I decided to re watch alongside the podcast. I haven't had much luck in love over the last 10 years, so seeing Ted start his journey at 27 is. And reliving all these lessons in How I Met your Mother has really brought me back to who I am and reminded me how much is ahead of me. Still. That line that Ted says in the limo episode, it's all important. It was all leading somewhere was a lesson I really needed to relearn in this season of life as an adult. I'm now a filmmaker and I capture stories for a living and it's so clear to me now how much How I Met yout Mother inspired me to pursue that path. The show reaches people in all kinds of chapters and I feel so blessed that it's been with me through so many of mine.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Wow. What a letter.

[Craig Thomas]

That was amazing. We're speechless. We've been rendered speechless.

[Josh Radnor]

Welcome to another terrifically Exciting episode of How We Made youe Mother. I. I'm Josh Radner. I'm with my dear friend Craig Thomas. Hi, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

We are talking about the television show How I Met yout Mother, which ran on CBS from 2005 to 2014. We're looking back, we're asking all the questions. We're remembering what it was like when we made this show. We're reflecting on it these many years later. And one of the most exciting things we're doing is hearing directly from fans, from people who have loved the show, have wrestled with the show, have rewatched the show over and over and over, over again. And this. This letter. Was it Emma, Alec, who. Who wrote this letter? Emma. So beautiful. And one thing it reminds me of is that at any different part in your life, you can feel like a different character in the story. Right. She started off feeling like she was part of the Marshall and Lily, and then she revisits 10 years later. No, I'm. I'm Ted. I'm in my Ted years.

[Craig Thomas]

I also.

[Josh Radnor]

I noticed this while the show was on. I had a lot of women come up to me and say, I'm just like, Ted.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, that's cool. I like that.

[Josh Radnor]

And I realized it had no. The gender had no bearing on where the entry point was for these things, which I really liked and appreciated. And I love that it inspired her as an artist, too.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God, that means the world. And I thought that, too. It's interesting. You can be the Marshall Lily in one chapter. You can be the Ted in another chapter. Even in. As we enter season two here on this podcast, we're talking about episode five of season two here today. It's Ted and Robin have become the couple of the group. And Marshall and Lily are no longer the Marshall. Ted and Robin are now the Marshall and Lily. They're kind of functionally, like, holding down that center in the way that Marshall and Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

Not for long.

[Craig Thomas]

Not for long. But that's life. That's life. Emma has a great observation. It's just like there are just these chapters, and we're all gonna play all these parts at some point, and there's nothing that lasts forever. And it is all leading somewhere. And you do have to move through and embrace change and also know that things will continue to change and good and bad ways. And that's the ride. That's the ride that we're on. That's the ride of what the show is.

[Josh Radnor]

The other fun thing. And I'm sure people have experienced this with works of art. You love. You love a movie as a child, or you love a movie in your teens, and you watch it 10, 20 years later, and you're different, and it's a different movie, and your response to it, and even you might have loved it in such a way that it doesn't resonate for you the same way it does in your mind. Works can take on a frequency or resonance in our memory of them that is even stronger than how we experience them in the present. But also a good work of art. And I think this is a testament to how I met your mother being a good work of art. It changes as you change.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It seems to meet you in different places and you recognize different things the older you get.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And I'm grateful to Emma and anyone that has that moment that she had where the show became painful to her because of a breakup. The things she related to when she was younger, now that didn't. Now it was painful to watch it because it wasn't that thing anymore. It sounds like that she was a bit heartbroken, and now the show wasn't that comfort to her. The idea. I'm grateful to her that she came back around to it at this later chapter and sort of came back to it and sees new things in it. That's really cool. And I'm honored when fans do that. And I think that is. Yeah. I have so many movies and shows and books and things that I go back to, and it's like I have a completely different experience the next time I read it. 5, 10, 15, 20 years later. The Great Gatsby is always different. Catcher in the Ride, you go back to these things. You go. This meant so many different things to me at so many different points. And that really is cool. That is the cool thing about art.

[Josh Radnor]

So we are talking today about episode five of season two. The name of this episode and the air date. Alec, this is your big moment. This is the moment we wait for every week for you to pop in and remind us when this show aired.

[Craig Thomas]

No pressure. Okay, Sorry.

[Alec Lev]

Let me just look it up. Hold on one second.

[Josh Radnor]

You already thought you have one job.

[Craig Thomas]

You had one job. Had one. You know, you actually have, like, 100 jobs. So we should. We should.

[Alec Lev]

I have a lot of tabs open. Holland. We are talking about the world's greatest couple, which first aired on October 16 in 2006, written by Brenda Shea, Brenda Shay, on the.

[Craig Thomas]

On the show for three years. Very, very talented, funny writer. And I always. I remember her being.

[Joe Manganiello]

She also.

[Craig Thomas]

She was always very Good at writing Barney. Brenda wrote Barney really well. She enjoyed that. She had a lot to do with that Lemon Law episode in season one. She's a very funny writer, and I always felt like she took to Barney in that same way that some women relate to Ted watching. I'm Ted Mosby. Brenda had a. By the way, Brenda's nothing like Barney in real life.

[Josh Radnor]

That was not my experience.

[Craig Thomas]

No, no, she's not. I don't mean like. I don't mean like that. But as a writer, she wrote very funny stuff for Barney.

[Josh Radnor]

So we have a very special guest who will be joining us in a bit. But before we get to that, we're going to talk a little bit about other parts of the episod. But, Craig, just give us a quick summary of what happens in this episode.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's a play on couplehood. This episode. There are a couple of strange bedfellows. And that's actually literally true with the way the episode begins. Barney and Lily are in bed in the beginning of the episode. And it's one of those. Let's show how we got here. So Lily has this dilemma of her apartment is horrible. The apartment she came back from San Francisco because she has a horrible apartment. She needs somewhere better to live. She turns to Barney. She becomes Barney's roommate. He's very reluctant until he realizes that she can help him by chasing away one Night stands, by pretending to be his wife, coming home and discovering them together. And our other funny couple of the episode is Marshall and Brad with our very special guest who will be on in a few minutes, Joe Manganiello, who's hilarious in this episode and just a great dude and just super funny. And the two of them together, both recently heartbroken, lamenting that they've lost all of these things they love to do, like brunch, because they're not in couples anymore. That's the other big part of this. And then Ted and Robin again, they're the new Marshall and Lily. They're sort of holding it down, just kind of laughing at everybody else a little bit. The way that a couple that is comfortable together is like, ah, this. At least none of this shit's happening to us.

[Josh Radnor]

Quietly, disdainful of everyone's missteps and adventures.

[Craig Thomas]

They're Statler and Waldorf. Muppets.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

Up in the balcony, kind of enjoying everyone's pain a little bit.

[Josh Radnor]

But you know, Craig, we talk so much about how the whole all of How I Met yout Mother is one big mystery in the title. How did this happen? How did he meet. But each. There's many episodes that are mysteries. They start off as a mystery. This episode literally starts, what is this craziness? Lily and Barney are in bed together. How the hell did this happen two weeks earlier? You know, classic, kind of like, start at the end and work your way towards and show how this happened. And also, it's a misdirect. It's not what you think. They did not sleep together, but, well, they slept next to each other.

[Craig Thomas]

So many of our best episodes have some mini mystery in them. That's the thing that's hitting me the most in this rewatch is just, like, how much in the DNA of successful HIM episodes, there's some little element of mystery. Even the episode. Even the Scorpion, the Toad, which was a few episodes back. The mystery is, is Lily really happy? Was Lily happy in San Francisco? Like, that's not even. There's not a huge mystery in that episode. But still, it's something you want to find out. Is she really as happy as she said, or is she not? And this one has this huge, like, why the hell are Barney and Lily in bed? And you're going to get there, you're going to loop back to that. You're going to flashback and catch up to that and see what the context really was. And that's really fun in this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. I especially loved Lily's horrible apartment because my second year at NYU, I lived on 9th street between 1st Avenue and Avenue A, and I had a bathtub in my kitchen.

[Craig Thomas]

You did the classic New York thing. That's why we did that. There really are. I've definitely been to some New York apartments like that, and it's great. Yeah. And did you use the bathtub as a bathtub, or did it just. Was it.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, no, I had a, you know, a handhold shower thing. But yes, I. While I lived there, I did bathe. I would just want everyone to know. Know that was how I bid. But it was. I. You know, I look back on that, and I. It. There are certain times, especially living in New York, there are certain things about living in New York that are so difficult, they almost feel initiatory. You know, you're like, yes, you. You had to have that apartment that had this or didn't have this. And you make so many compromises to live in the greatest city in the world. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back.

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[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show.

[Craig Thomas]

It was fun to explore that horrible apartment and I had forgotten that when she opens the Murphy bed, it literally rips a hole in the wall and you see her near neighbor. That really tickled me. That was a great effect. I don't think we say it often enough on the podcast. Our production staff, our crew, our set designers, they were so good at their jobs. That's not an easy thing to create. The Murphy bed opens and rips a hole in the wall and it's a hilarious reveal.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a huge effect. It's a huge. And it has to be. It has be perfect like that. That's a thing you have to nail.

[Craig Thomas]

And it really looked amazing. It looked was a hilarious visual funny on mute as they say two things.

[Josh Radnor]

About that Murphy bed, about the we're kind of jumping a little bit through the episode, but when. When they pull it down and it. It gets stopped at the wall and Ted is kind of like stuck behind it. I remember there are certain things that like the. The props and the. Either maybe the costumes or the. The production design is so Good. That it's kind of like. It just elicits a very honest response for you. Like, we pulled that bed down and it just gets stuck. And I watched, you know, Ted's body, which at the time was my body, also, really just kind of, you know, do this response that I know that was not. I know it was different every time I did it because it was such a.

[Craig Thomas]

It seemed that there was legitimate danger, like maybe it could have gotten out of control. That's why our production staff system was so good. No one did get killed, but it did legitimately. Like, it really fell open that. Well, there's really. There was. There was some physics at work there, and I can see that hitting a real. Having a real response, you know, and.

[Josh Radnor]

It must have been, you know, fun for the product staff when they're like, you describe this apartment, you describe what the bed is like. They have to do some real, like, engineering and measurements.

[Craig Thomas]

That is no small feat, what they did with that wall ripping open. It looked great.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, yeah. I just. Do you know the cartoonist Asher Perlman? Yeah, yeah, he's an amazing cartoonist. Yeah, he's always in the New Yorker. I'm friendly with him, and he sent me his books. He sent me his first book called this Is Me, and then. Then he. There's a sequel that. That I was delighted to come home last night and discover he had. So I spent this morning reading the second book of cartoons. And they're so funny. Shout out to Asher Perlman. And worth. Well worth picking up a copy and giving to your friends. But the. The guy who was on the other side of the wall that was ripped looks so much like an Asher Perlman character.

[Craig Thomas]

He does look like a cartoon.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, unbelievable.

[Craig Thomas]

It was a New Yorker cartoon.

[Josh Radnor]

There's people in these cartoons that are like, that. That's the guy. That's the guy.

[Craig Thomas]

He had a great look, that guy.

[Josh Radnor]

It's not that Asher Perlman's. His cartoons look like cartoons. That guy looked like someone drew him. He was unbelievable. The character behind that wall, it really made me laugh because I read the whole book and then watched the episode, and I was like, how did an Asher Perlman character get into the episode in 2006 of How I Met yout Mother?

[Craig Thomas]

See, it changes over time. Like we were saying in the opening, he changes as you change full circle. But no, I did wanna talk about another great. Another wonderfully constructed shot by our wonderful director and camera crew, which is that reveal. Right. I was talking to you guys before we recorded about that reveal. That is A Coen brothers shout out. Can I talk about that for a second, please? I've been raring to get to this, and no one will care or know what I'm talking about. But I'm just gonna do it anyway. Cause it makes me happy. In the movie Miller's Crossing, which is one of my favorite films, and Carter 2, there's this moment where Tom Regan, who's played by Gabriel Byrne, enters his own apartment, comes down, the phone's ringing. It's late at night. He sits down, answers the phone. And you're just tight on Gabriel Byrne. And he has an entire phone call. Hangs up the phone, and he's. The whole time, he's looking kind of past camera. You're right in his face. And then he hangs up the phone, and he goes, hello, Bernie. And you reveal that that entire time, Bernie Birnbaum, John Turturro, was sitting. Had broken into his apartment and was sitting there. And there's this incredibly ominous re. Because it's definitely trouble that this guy is sitting there. And it just. You're so long just on Tom Regan and Gabriel Byrne. And then all of a sudden, it's this reveal after a long phone call that Bernie's there. Well, that's exactly what we did with Barney. Barney walks in. He's on his earpiece. He's having this long phone call. Having this angry, threatening call that turns out to be with his own mother. And then after a really long cross only on him, you reveal. And it's all in one shot, which is not true in the village crossing, but it's all in shot. Then you sort of widen out enough to see Lily's just been sitting there the whole time. Hello, Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

See, you guys had the audacity and the technical know how to pull off a oner that the Coen brothers couldn't possibly have figured out.

[Craig Thomas]

The Coen brothers don't know how to move a camera. That's what I'm saying.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. You know, it's also a great thing when you're an artist. You watch movies and you read books. And we've talked so much about all the crazy kind of influences. And even on subtle levels, when you're doing things, you might not even realize you're paying homage to something or ripping it off outright. But it's so much fun to have a vocabulary. To have a vocabulary to talk about these things and speak in shorthand with a DP or who might have the same references. It really amused me that. That, you know, Barney was placing bets, and then he's threatening. And it turns out it's his mom. But I also, you know, we talked in episode two about like this compulsive, kind of addictive quality of Barney. And it's like, yeah, of course he's cross addicted and he's a gambler. Like, he's got bets going everywhere.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, like.

[Josh Radnor]

Of course, that's just like a natural extension. Yeah. He's.

[Craig Thomas]

It's on brand.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. You know, this also this. This storyline of Lily and Barney having this. This story reminded me of. I think it was Greg. It might have been Jonathan Groff. I can't remember who said this to me. But, you know, you've got something good. When you can picture any two characters in a scene and you can kind of write for any two characters you can swap out. That's a swap them out. And this is kind of like again, like the writers going, what if.

[Alec Lev]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

What if Lily has no place to live and then ends up with Barney? And then Barney and Lily are both like chemicals that you're dropping in a petri dish and watching the reaction.

[Craig Thomas]

What happens? Yeah. What's this? And we hadn't ever done that. We hadn't run that experiment. This is their first two hander. They're the. The. I mean, those two and. And Jason and. And Joe are the other. Like, it's. It is. It's just these funny chemical experiments we're running.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And Ted and Robin are the kind of control group which was not true in season one.

[Joe Manganiello]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

They were the experiment.

[Josh Radnor]

Right, right, right.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And also, you know, you create a very strong dramatic tension, which is Lily needs this space, like she needs to live there.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. We very much made the sale on that.

[Josh Radnor]

And Barney also ends up realizing he needs her too. So it's really just.

[Craig Thomas]

I like that you really see that. Barney's loneliness. And again, the sort of kid in the candy store. Part of writing this was this episode is how we met Barney's apartment. Right. This is this. We're establishing a very main. And go to location. And we realized that no one. I love the mystery again. Mystery mini mysteries is what makes How Mitchell Mother episode's great. No one has ever seen his apartment. They've known him for years. Ted's known him for years. No one's ever been there. The Fortress of Barnitude. And it was very fun as writers to do that tour.

[Josh Radnor]

Is this the first episode where someone asks him what he does for a living and he says please.

[Craig Thomas]

This is the initiation of that, I believe. Yeah. Which is a series Long runner that we pay off. But yeah, the mystery of Barney. And he's just this lone wolf. And I love that Lily kind of penetrates that enough to see that he really is kind of lonely deep down. It's another one of those redeeming Barney moments. And he likes the company in the end. And there's something sort of sweet about that.

[Josh Radnor]

But initially it's something else. It's she's useful repellent to get rid of his one night stands. Who won't leave, by the way, that one woman who I don't know who the actress was, who woke up up kind of smiling.

[Craig Thomas]

She was funny.

[Josh Radnor]

She was hilarious.

[Craig Thomas]

She was really funny. I was watching.

[Josh Radnor]

She was really wonderful. What was the remind us of the actress's name who played the woman Barney woke up with?

[Craig Thomas]

Right, right.

[Alec Lev]

Her name is Valerie Aslin.

[Josh Radnor]

All right, Valerie, shout out to your great work. It was fantastic.

[Craig Thomas]

Really funny. Like really kind of took that scene, kind of, kind of stole that scene a little bit. It was crazy. Yeah, she was great, great work.

[Josh Radnor]

No, she was very good. And I, I think Lily doesn't clue into Barney's loneliness until a little bit later. But also another great bit that I thought was so funny is the 300 inch flat screen.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And he's so proud of it. Like it's burning her retinas. He's like, yeah, that doesn't go away.

[Josh Radnor]

And yeah, it's kind of like new is always better, but also for Barney, bigger is better. You know, it's always better.

[Craig Thomas]

I loved the way it played with the idea of the fourth wall. He points right at the camera, he goes, you see that wall? And the wall lights up. We're looking through that laid up wall. Apparently there was something very fun and meta about that and that lighting effect. Again, we had a fantastic crew and production staff. The lights, that was a great lighting cue. Every time it happened, it was just.

[Josh Radnor]

Blinding, you know, I watch. Speaking of art, that changes as you get older. There's an Edward Yang film called Yi Yi Yiyi. Do you know this movie?

[Craig Thomas]

I did not think a more random film reference would trump my Miller's Crossing reference, but we got there. We're officially there. No, I don't know that movie.

[Josh Radnor]

It was one of the New York Times best films of the 20th century. It's a really gorgeous movie about a multi generational film about this Taiwanese family. But the director will often play the scenes with just one person. But it's a very important scene and the other person's reactions. Another filmmaker would want to cut to.

[Craig Thomas]

Them and they're just off camera talking, but they're not featured in any way.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, he either keeps them off camera or he does a lot of master shots where. Where it's through the window of, like, a cafe or through the balcony window, and you see the lights of, like, Taiwanese traffic going by or pedestrians walking by. And you would think it would just be the master shot. He plays the whole scene that way. It really gives a sense of, like, the teeming life outside. And you're in this big, bustling urban environment, but you're also zeroing in on this family and this very intimate story. And just to say that we don't need to see that tv, it's so.

[Craig Thomas]

Much better that you don't see it.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost like he references. You know, it was pulled over, brought over on a tugboat like King Kong.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God, I love that line.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, Jaws is scarier because you don't see it for so long.

[Craig Thomas]

It's Jaws. Yeah, it all comes back to Jaws.

[Josh Radnor]

And even there's a monster reference in it. Like, you don't need to see it. It's actually better. The story is better with just those lights and not seeing the tv. And cheaper for you guys. Yes, yes.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, absolutely. It's so much better that you don't see it. But the parts of his apartment you do get to see were very fun to write. The toilet seat that just defaults to.

[Josh Radnor]

Up one pillow, the one towel.

[Craig Thomas]

It's so sad, the amount of thought and work that has gone into just repelling and chasing people away. Because it's such a metaphor for Barney.

[Josh Radnor]

What a scared, scared man.

[Craig Thomas]

He's a scared, scared man. Like, that's what's so interesting about Barney. He's a scared and scarred man. And Lily, just a little bit, starts to make a little progress into that. And that's what's so great. It's great that that's sort of the point of this whole storyline is Lily's like, you actually like this. You like having company. You like having some lightness and some life in this apartment. And Barney. And she's right. And Barney, of course, freaks out and kicks her out. But there's some. You get some extra little glimpse. I think it's a very good Barney episode in a lot of ways. Even though Barney's a total shit in it, too. In a lot of ways. You really do see that softer side. And I like that Lily can see it. I like that Lily's the one who unlocks that, because they Never. I don't think they ever had a storyline this meaningful together.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

This is. This is the big two hander for them.

[Josh Radnor]

Lily's really smart. She has very psychologically intuitive gifts. You know, she gets under people, you know, in sometimes a way that is they're not ready to see or accept. But I did love. And this must have been another fun thing for production. The toilet seat cover that won't go down. So funny, so smart. Also another hilarious thing. I'm noticing all the flip phones but a porn DVD collection.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my God. This is. Isn't that. That's the most dated thing maybe that we've seen so far. That people have physical porn. I mean, that is important. Sometimes you forget 2006 was a while ago, but that was a moment where it was like, yeah, I don't know. That's analog porn definitely dates the show a little bit.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Oh, I also loved at the end of our Miller's Crossing sequence, you know, how did. What did he say? How did you penetrate the like, security? I used the spare key.

[Craig Thomas]

I use the spare cunning or whatever it is.

[Josh Radnor]

Brilliant. He says.

[Craig Thomas]

Brilliant. He's a spare key.

[Josh Radnor]

And I love. You know, he realizes Lily is helpful because she can, you know, she starts acting as his wife and that he's cheer and the women just flee. It's also funny that Barney, I mean, I guess he does, but like, in some ways it was pre, like Internet shaming. Like, remember what was the. There was the guy that. West Elm. Caleb. Do you guys remember that?

[Craig Thomas]

No, I don't know what that means.

[Josh Radnor]

So there was a guy who. He was just like a serial dater. And I don't know that he was a particularly like, venal character or anything, but he dated all these women and then he would kind of go. And these women kind of got together and they found out that they had all dated this guy and they kind of doxxed him a little bit, you know, and it was, you know, it was like a one or two news cycle story. But Barney is living in a world where that's not going to happen to him. Like, he's. He's acting like, like he can get away with this for. And he doesn't realize in some ways, like, bro, the Internet is coming for you. Like, you. You are not going to be able to do this.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, what's funny is we did catch up to that a. I don't know what year that West Elm story happened, but that or a story like it is part of what inspired a later thing on the show, which was tedmosbyisajerk.com remember that? Which was the idea of the Internet coming for Ted a little bit. Even though it was unjust and there's a whole story behind it. As the show went on, we kind of caught up to that. The idea of actual porn DVDs in a house was charmingly antique and quaint and old fashioned. Corn DVDs. Yeah, it was funny.

[Josh Radnor]

I love Lily adding the slap that he didn't script, you know, and she was just like, that's just something I always wanted to do.

[Craig Thomas]

It's just something I always wanted to do. Which is great because Lily has to eat shit for a bunch of this episode because she's really selling out her morals to stay at his apartment. And she's kind of dying inside. But that's how badly. That's how badly she needs his apartment. Her apartment is so bad that she will swallow every bit of morality to be part of Barney's ruse. But as you said when. Josh, we were talking about when she did that. Great. She played Twins to fuck over Barney for Marshall at the end of episode two of the season. Scorpion and the Toad. She's a good improv. Lily, the character is a good improv actress.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

She turns out to have maybe by teaching kindergarten and just like the sort of improvisational quality of that or something. She's very good at running a ruse, actually.

[Josh Radnor]

I know she's very.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, Andy. In the moment.

[Josh Radnor]

She'd be both a good. She'd be a good psychologist in a good spa. You know, she'd be good at espionage. Yeah. I loved watching them makeover the apartment. There's something funny about like a classic kind of apartment makeover scene that like is very pleasing to watch.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

It's this great song by the band Islands, which is the band the Unicorns, which is a band we say the mother loves much later on. How much Mother's great indie band that Unicorns ended. And I think one or both those guys went and made this band Islands, which was just like a short lived project. I don't know if they're still around. But that album is really good and has that song. I think it's like. I think that song's called like Don't Call Me Whitney Bobby or something like that. And that song that scores, that is such a great. That's such a peppy montage step to that, that song. I really love that music placement.

[Josh Radnor]

I also like that you got to give a Letterman shout out to your former employee.

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely Dave. We were. Carter and I rode for Dave for four and a half years. Those were our How I Met yout Mother years in New York. Those were the years. We're going to McGee's. That inspired McLaren's around the Corner from Late show with David Letterman.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And, yeah, that was definitely a loving shout out to our Letterman.

[Josh Radnor]

I like Barney's. You were supposed to be the vaccine, but you gave me the disease.

[Craig Thomas]

That was so. That was a great. That final scene, that final reckoning scene between them when they wake up and you realize they didn't have sex. But something even more troubling has happened to Barney that he realized he let somebody in. He lets somebody in and he's terrified. And that's great. That says everything about Barney.

[Josh Radnor]

Right. And that the Friday night, like watching Letterman and falling asleep was like, there was pleasures to be had with that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, he liked it a little too much.

[Josh Radnor]

It was really funny to me when Lily said, you can't just kick me out. I put a lot of work into this place, and I've grown accustomed to a certain standard of living.

[Craig Thomas]

Their fight was great.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's really. It's really. Craig. I'm just delighted. Like, it's hard to know what kind of show you're on while you're on it. And I thought I knew on some level, I was like, oh, this is great. I knew it was funny. But I'm delighted in this rewatch how consistently great the writing is, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Right. Oh, thanks.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, really. I mean, it's never. It never talks down to the viewer. I really think it is just. It's about smart, funny people who are heart forward and, you know, scared and working through. I mean, I'm just. I'm really. I'm getting that. I was on a great show. I know that sounds weird, but, like, it's been very good for me to revisit this with my older, wiser eyes, you know, as this whole project is a part of, you know, that was kind of the impetus for it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Well, we have a theme. We have a theme of the show. Looks different through your different eyes at different moments. And that's really nice that you're seeing it that way. I really like. And we should bring our special guest on in a moment. I really like that when I forget something, when I forget some, like some B story or C story or some part that's not the main part of that episode or even an episode that I haven't thought of as much. And you go back and you watch and you Go. Oh, there's really good stuff in this part I completely forgot about of this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

Sometimes a B story or a C story is like, like, way more delightful than you realized.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay. The other great part of this episode is our special guest today, and I say we bring him on right now.

[Josh Radnor]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you in New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now, commercials.

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[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials back to show a very special episode.

[Josh Radnor]

We're up to the very special part of our very special episode. We have a guest star. We are delighted to have the actor who was at the center of arguably the steamiest romance of How I Met yout Mother, that of Brad and Marshall. We have Joe Manganiello here. We're so happy to see you, Joe. Thanks for joining us.

[Joe Manganiello]

Hey, thanks for having me. I realized as I was sitting down, I was like, I should have bought an Atlantis Morissette concert T shirt for this podcast. And I. I didn't think of it quick enough.

[Josh Radnor]

Why didn't you just wash off one of the five you have?

[Joe Manganiello]

I love totally rocks.

[Josh Radnor]

Joe, did you. Did you re watch this episode by any chance?

[Joe Manganiello]

Chance, man. Listen.

[Josh Radnor]

Or does it just live in you? It lives in you.

[Joe Manganiello]

It lives in me. I mean, I don't go very long without someone on the street. A lot of times in Europe, actually. Wow. Stopping me and saying, oh, my God, bros at brunch, you're the bro.

[Craig Thomas]

You're Brad. You're the brunch bro.

[Joe Manganiello]

They go, come on, man, tell me. Come on. How's the zucchini Bread. And I'm like, radon, it's redonk.

[Josh Radnor]

We were talking earlier in the episode that a lot of people say they learned English from watching How I Met your Mother. And I said, they must be so confused by it. Like, what is radonk? What is radon? How do I. Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

What about the little dude's future, which is a future episode? I don't want to get into that.

[Craig Thomas]

But, like. No.

[Joe Manganiello]

So I was in. I was in side note. I mean, because we're talking about, you know, learning English with How I Met yout Mother. I was in Germany during the True Blood era.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

And a guy came up and introduced himself to me in Munich. Who is. He's the German brat Brad. For the dubbing.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, he does the overdub of your voice for Brad. Oh, my God. It's crazy. And you met your German self. You met your German voice. That's cool. That's hilarious.

[Joe Manganiello]

But there are actual Russian actors doing the dialogue. But in a Russian version of the show, correct?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, there was a Russian version. They really cast it. Yeah. It was like they actually shot with a cast. We saw a couple of episodes, Carter and I. It's crazy. It looked like Three's Company from the 1970s. Like, really weird lighting and like, oh, this is kind of under budget. But it sort of had this weird charm. It really looked like it was from the 1970s. It was weird.

[Joe Manganiello]

Like, did they pull out, like, a blue saxophone at some point?

[Emma (Fan)]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Everything was a little bit different. The main thing I remember, and I can't quite figure out why this is the case in Russian, but when Barney. The Barney character. First of all, the Barney character, the actor was, like, 55 years old, playing, like, 30. I don't know. It was like a really old dude.

[Joe Manganiello]

They catch this oligarch.

[Craig Thomas]

It was just eating oligarchy.

[Josh Radnor]

I was putting the 10 times sadder.

[Craig Thomas]

It was legitimately strange. He was older than the rest of the cast by a lot. And when he would say suit up, he would say Barney's catchphrase. I think they only shot season one, maybe season two. We saw a couple episodes when he would say suit up, the word in Russian. The Russian version of that was costume. I don't know why, like, does that.

[Joe Manganiello]

You know what I'm going to ask next? Like, do. Do Russians do brunch? I mean.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, look, it's one of the great questions, the philosophical questions of our age. We don't. We'll have to.

[Josh Radnor]

It's why we won the Cold War is because we had br. It was our secret national power.

[Craig Thomas]

Joe, I actually want to back. I want to ba. I want to do a How I Met yout Mother style flashback whip pan all the way back. Because I was just saying this just before you came on Carter and I. The reason we cast you in the show is that we went and did not know you at all, and we went and saw you do a monologue in a series of monologues written by one of our great writers on the show, Gloria Calderon Kellett. Can you talk about that monologue, what that character was? Because this was one of those experiences that everyone thinks happens a lot to, like, producers and writers, where you go see somebody and you go, that person's so fucking funny. We have to do. Put them in something. And that's what I had with you. And it doesn't. That's. It's actually fairly rare. But we saw you. You were part of. There was 10 other actors, but you just. Everyone else was probably great. You just popped and stuck in our heads. Would you talk about what that was for a second? Because that is how I met Joe Manganiello.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah. This is how. Yeah. How you met Joe Manganiello. Here it is. Yeah. No, I'm glad you brought that up because. Yes. And this is like a good story for, like, you know, up and coming actors or young actors, because people come up and they say, what should I do? And how do I get into the business? And I'm like, do theater? Like, do you do. You know, I came from theater. I went to the Carnegie Mellon School of Drama.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

So, you know, I was a theater performer and, you know, was banging around LA a little bit, and. And I was. So I got cast on a show called Jake in Progress.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

I remember that.

[Joe Manganiello]

I remember that star Stamos.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

And my episode never aired because it got canceled.

[Craig Thomas]

That's the worst.

[Joe Manganiello]

So I was like, when's my episode? I. I need to splice this into my reel.

[Craig Thomas]

Did you tell everyone to watch it? That's the worst. When you told everyone to watch it.

[Joe Manganiello]

I'm like, I need to put that in my reel. Or whatever I thought, you know, at the time. And. And so the episode doesn't. Didn't happen. But the casting directors who cast me on that show, apparently this is where the kismet starts. Where Gloria Calderon Kellett, who is in your writer's room for How I Met yout Mother, she had written a all female monologue show previously and published a monologue book for women. This was the first time now she wanted to write another monologue show, but she wanted to do some men's monologues also too, have it mixed and then put them up in a show. And she said, oh, I need a guy. And she went over to casting, walked down to the casting office, Jake in progress and said, oh, well, I, I need a guy who's a guy, you know that. And they said, well, we just saw this guy, we know a guy, this guy Joe. And she said, well, can I see his headshot? And they said, sure. And they gave her my headshot. And they said, oh, by the way, he's coming into audition for something else. He'll be here in 30 minutes.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow. That is apparent.

[Joe Manganiello]

Like according to legend, sits the headshot on the side of her computer and bangs out what became like a 13, 14 minute monologue performance. It was a monster.

[Craig Thomas]

It was a monster. It was so good. You'll get to, you'll talk about that in a minute. You crushed this thing. Anyway, keep going. Sorry.

[Joe Manganiello]

So she sets us up and in 30 minutes bangs out this 13, 14 minute monologue. I didn't know that, that, I mean, we know the ending, but it's like she didn't change a word. There was not one word changed off of that monologue.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my God.

[Joe Manganiello]

I came in 30 minutes later, she stops typing. She goes, he. And she goes, come on in, sit down. Pulls it out of the printer, hands it to me, goes, could you read this for me? Should you hear me and read this thing I just wrote. I want.

[Craig Thomas]

It's only 14 minutes long.

[Joe Manganiello]

So I read, I read it and she's like, great, you're awesome. Do you want to do it?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my God.

[Joe Manganiello]

And I said, I said, well, like, what are we doing? She said, well, it's going to be in like a 99 seat equity theater house, you know, wherever I think it was on like the Hudson Theater on Santa Monica. I can pay you six bucks bucks a show.

[Josh Radnor]

Which at that time was real money.

[Craig Thomas]

That's not even a dollar a minute for the monologue. That's 50 cents a minute.

[Joe Manganiello]

It's like, yeah, I know. And I said, amazing.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, sure.

[Joe Manganiello]

I got nothing else to do.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, cool.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah, you know, of course, you just say yes. Just say yes.

[Craig Thomas]

You knew it was good though. It was good writing. Tell us what it is, what it was.

[Joe Manganiello]

I'm a personal trainer named Derek and the whole monologue is me talking to a woman who, about joining this gym and why she should join this gym and why this gym is better than others. And then I kind of. It kind of devolves, and you start, like, seeing the cracks, and then you realize that I used to be this fat kid who used to hide Twinkies under the bed, but I'm better now, and now I'm raw. And now. And it's. It just goes back and forth as he basically has a complete and total meltdown in front of this woman in her workout gear. He's trying to sell a gym membership.

[Josh Radnor]

And it's.

[Craig Thomas]

It's.

[Josh Radnor]

It's been 20 years, but it still lives in you, this character. I can feel him come alive.

[Craig Thomas]

Carter and I were watching you do that.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah.

[Emma (Fan)]

And then.

[Joe Manganiello]

And then you guys called me in for that.

[Craig Thomas]

For a small part at first. Right. Tell that story, too, of how you reminded me over email that. How that worked. We had you in that. An episode earlier than the episode we're talking about. World's Greatest Couple is the episode we're talking about today. But you briefly appeared. Right. In another. Right. Tell us. Take us through the sequence of that. I had forgotten.

[Joe Manganiello]

So I came in and auditioned for Ted Mosby, architect. Yeah, that was the name of the episode. There were. There were two parts that I read for that day. It was like, you can read for the bouncer and you can read for, like, Jimmy, the drunken law student. Yeah, and I read for both.

[Craig Thomas]

And.

[Joe Manganiello]

And I got.

[Craig Thomas]

I think I.

[Joe Manganiello]

The call came in later that from casting, they said, hey, the guys really liked you. They thought you were the best that came in for both of those roles, and they want to know which one you'd rather have half. And I had my pick. And I thought, well, bouncer or Jimmy, who's in law school with Marshall, might be something that could have legs.

[Craig Thomas]

Genius. You're a genius.

[Joe Manganiello]

If we keep coming back to law school, then. Then maybe I'm there.

[Craig Thomas]

They're never going to see that bouncer ever again. But Lost.

[Joe Manganiello]

Probably not. Yeah. Unless you go to the club all the time. But it's not a club show, you know. All right, so. So I said, all right, I'll take Jimmy the Lost. So we're shooting Ted Mosby, architect. What happened? And maybe you can fill this in, which was. Gloria came up to me later and was like, hey, so listen, they love what you're doing so much that there's a part in an upcoming episode. Two episodes down the line, there's another or, you know, next episode or the episode after. There's a part that was written for an actor that the studio has on contract. They had him on a holding deal. And I know who it is, and I could say his name, but I don't know if we want to. But I don't remember. It was written for another actor, and he was supposed to do it, but Carter and Craig want you to do it. And if you do it, they'll combine this character you're playing, Jimmy, with this upcoming character in this other episode who is a law school buddy of Marshall. It could work. They'll just scrub the name and make it one character. You have to come in and audition during your lunch break. Will you do it like, cold read during a lunch break? And I was like, sure. So I'm there working on a job I've been hired that I've already auditioned for, and now I'm auditioning for the next part.

[Craig Thomas]

It's really weird. Yeah, I forgot how weird that was. But again, kismet.

[Joe Manganiello]

And so I come in and do that. And then word came back that was like, yeah, they. You know, they showed the tape to cbs, and everybody agreed. Read, you should do this part. They're gonna take it away from the other guy and give it to you, and you're gonna come back, and they're gonna combine. The name of the character in the next episode is Brad. So you're just gonna be Brad.

[Craig Thomas]

You're Brad now. Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

You're Brad. And that was World's greatest Couple.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, amazing. I really forgot a lot of that. I do remember that feeling of like, we need this guy. We need Joe. And this has. Because we. World's greatest Couple. Like, that is the comedic engine of that episode. You and you and Siegel. I want to get to that too. Like, you and Siegel had such a hilarious connection in this episode. The fact that you're six' five and he's six' four, you're both these giant dudes, and you both have had your heart stomped on, which, again, was the heart stomped on. The vulnerability piece is something we saw in Gloria's monologue that she wrote for you. Cause it really was that broken heart underneath that big personal trainer. So that was part of. When we were crafting this other episode, we realized we need, like, this. This big, handsome dude who is actually vulnerable and can play that heartbreak. I'd forgotten. Rewatching this episode, like, you have to break down in tears in the middle of a restaurant, and that's what makes Marshall agree to go to the wedding with Brad. There's, like, how you. You and Jason, it seemed like there was a real connection there. You guys were very playful and was, like, very safe for you. To be funny together. Did you feel that with him? Did you. You guys had a real thing in that episode. It was so funny.

[Joe Manganiello]

I think we. We both understood the assignment, you know, And I think, like. Like, if there's a family tree of comedy, I think, you know, like, I mean, I think back to, like, the SNL casts in the 90s.

[Craig Thomas]

90S. Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

They were just like, dudes. They were bros. They were bros in situations and so.

[Craig Thomas]

Bros and situations. Can we do that pilot? Can we?

[Joe Manganiello]

Can we.

[Craig Thomas]

Can I write Bros and Situations and you'll star in it? Because that's what I want to do next.

[Joe Manganiello]

Situations would be. I mean, I would watch that show.

[Craig Thomas]

I would so watch that show. That Michael. That might be the next 24 episode network comedy. I thought they were done, but maybe there's one more. That's amazing. By the way. That's what the Russian. I think that's what the Russian hymn was actually called. Bros in situations.

[Joe Manganiello]

Broski in situations.

[Craig Thomas]

That's the translation. Present situation. I can't do Russian. I'm sorry if I. Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

So, no, Jason and I, we just, like. He just got it. Like, I mean, you know, I mean, I'm sure we'll get to it, but, like, spoiler. I. I wound up in a bunch of episodes in a bunch of different seasons.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I wish there were even more. Honestly, rewatching this was like, why didn't we use Joe even more? You're so fucking.

[Joe Manganiello]

There was a lot of rumbling about there being a lot more. And I mean, I don't know if you want to get into, like, the what could have been or what, but, I mean, there were rum. But I mean, basically, he and I. I just remember all the table reads, man. I remember them all because I just remember us falling out and laughing so hard in table reads. Like, at the end of World's Greatest Couple, he does this thing where he sees me walking up in a tuxedo and I have the flowers.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

And he. He's like. He's like, no, no. Like, it's from his soul.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, he becomes the Hulk. No. It's so funny. That moment.

[Joe Manganiello]

It's so buried inside of him. It's so buried, you know, so. No, he and I just, like, got along right away. Like, the vibe was, like, totally right there. And I. Yes, because we're these two big dudes, like, going to brunch. Like, it's not weird. Going to Mamma Mia. Like, Walt Whitman suite. Like, there. Nothing's weird about any. Like, we're dating. Yeah, we are.

[Craig Thomas]

Two things I want to say about it. One is that Alanis Morissette thing really happened to Carter and another guy friend when they were both single. I think the guy friend had bought Alanis tickets and was hoping to bring a woman, but it didn't happen. And then he had Carter. It was actually Noah, our friend from college. Alec. And it was Noah. Alec and Noah and I all went to college. Noah was an environmental lawyer. That was the inspiration for Marshall's job on him. And so this is another thing Noah inspired.

[Joe Manganiello]

Well, Frog Lake, later on.

[Craig Thomas]

Frog Lake.

[Josh Radnor]

And for you.

[Craig Thomas]

And that's part of your character too. So it is all relevant to Noah in a lot of ways. And the funny thing is Noah and Carter convinced themselves, like, it's not weird. We both like Alanis. She's great. And they went there, and it was just the two of them sitting together. Alanis. And then at some point, they looked at each other and went, yeah, this is weird. And that inspired that one little part of this episode.

[Joe Manganiello]

Totally. Nothing weird about that. And it just keeps.

[Craig Thomas]

You just want to be able to do things if you're single, and there's certain things that are harder to do. And. Yeah. And that's it. It was so. The way you and Jason played. They just want this again. They're both heartbroken. They just want to feel this thing. I want to say one other thing. Every now and again, I have this regret of not putting this joke in this episode. I don't know why, but it just haunts my brain. And it's the stupidest little thing. But, like, radonk. Like, the way Brad sort of parlance, the way he talks with the abbreviations. This just came to me in a dream, like, 10 years after him. He went off the air, and I was like, that would have been funny. And the joke is Brad is telling Marshall about his breakup with Kara Again, none of this happened. This is just what I wish we wrote. And he said he would say, you know what? You know why she broke up with me? She doesn't like my. She doesn't like my abbreviate. Sorry, abbreviations. For some reason, that joke, it's like the stupidest little thing that just haunts me. I, like, I just wish we could have addressed the abbreviates. Sorry, I mean, abbreviations. Happy Cara.

[Joe Manganiello]

You know, it might have made Brad self conscious, maybe in a way. Because, you know, when I come back for the, you know, the trial of the century.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

Over Frog Lake, like, I start abbreviating all over the place.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

The little dude. You gotta think about the little things.

[Craig Thomas]

That's right. Maybe you couldn't have been conscious of it. That would have been too. So that. That helps me let go of that joke.

[Josh Radnor]

I did realize around that time, like, abbrevias had started taking off. I had a comedian friend who. Who was like. She was only speaking in abbreviations, but I felt like you guys caught that. And I always felt this thing about you, Joe, that, like, you just understood the patter and the rhythm of this guy. There was no. I don't recall you having to get a note. I mean, I wasn't there, though. But you understood, like, you said, you understood the assignment. Like, there was a certain kind of pattern and rhythm to this character that I just felt like you understood entirely. It was so much fun to revisit. Visit it.

[Joe Manganiello]

Oh, cool. Yeah. No, well, what was so great was that I really enjoyed, you know, and people don't understand that, like, sitcom is its own style. Like, the way that musicals are a style, it's heightened to a point. There's a. There's an emotional realism that needs to be there, but it's also like, you know, I mean, it's. It's almost the equivalent of people breaking in a song. You know, some of the reversals and things that kind of go on.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

And so everything is so metered out, you know, like, when you get into film comedies, a lot of the times the writers are. Have nothing to do with any of it. And, I mean, I've been on sets in films with other comedians comedies where instead of having security, they'll have the production pay for their writing staff, and they'll be huddled up in between takes with their writers, figuring out what they're going to improv and bring to them next scene. Now, in a sitcom, like in or on has been metered out correctly, and one is funnier than the other. It's very scientific, and you have to land within a certain amount of time on a line, and you've gotta. There's multiple jokes in a line. But what I love was we got to this point, especially when we're having brunch, where we kind of got the scene as written a couple times. And then it was like, you guys are coming out from behind the monster monitors and, like, whispering in my ear, in his ear about, like, say this to him about the zucchini bread. Or, like, say that. And it just, like, took on this whole life where now it's like, we got it. But now Jason and I are, like, throwing stuff at Each other. I mean, I thought I was gonna choke to death at one point on the unseen.

[Craig Thomas]

It became just nonsense.

[Joe Manganiello]

Eat and before and field stuff that he's doing with a straight face and.

[Craig Thomas]

Then openly cry at one point. I think that's why you're so funny. Like, you can be very vulnerable. Like, underneath, like, it's just. You can tell you're a real actor. Like, you really went to Carnegie Mellon. Like, you have those chops. And then it's so funny because there's like this vulnerability underneath. And I think this episode so captured that. And you're just like, you're not afraid to commit and show and like really commit to something ridiculous that kind of. You can really spiral out. Like you did in that monologue. Like you did crying in that scene. And when he's crying, when Brad is crying in front of Jason, it's just. You're this huge 6 foot 5 guy, have. You're shuddering, crying. It's such a funny image. You just lean into it so hard. Thanks.

[Joe Manganiello]

But you kind of wrote a character that's a maniac. Like, he's. He's a. Like, Brad is a maniac.

[Craig Thomas]

He's in his own reality. Yeah, he's.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah, he's living in a different world.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, he like.

[Joe Manganiello]

Of one. Like when you really. When you get later into, you know, the. The bachelor party where I just disappear and you find me running on the side of the road naked. Or the wedding, like, the wedding's like, what?

[Craig Thomas]

We gotta bring you back for that one.

[Josh Radnor]

But what's so funny to me is that when he. You think like, oh, this is just a young guy who's got his own. It's like he takes that style into the courtroom like he is a lawyer as Brad. Like, he never drops his Bradness.

[Craig Thomas]

Total commitment.

[Joe Manganiello]

There's really like. I don't know, man. There's like. But there's. There's moments that are like. Like if. If you're winking at the camera, there's any form of irony or that it's not emotionally true. Like, it's just going to fall apart.

[Craig Thomas]

Like it has.

[Joe Manganiello]

There has to be like the audience who has to. You have to allow the audience to judge him so hard. But also.

[Craig Thomas]

That's such a good way to say that.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah, in a way. Like, I think sometimes, you know, like, you know, I. As Joe, I'm like, oh, this guy's like a douchebag. Or like, you know, somebody else would think he's a total douchebag. Like, this is the most. Douchebaggiest you know, drunken frat guy, you know, whatever it is. But it's not like, like I, I, I love him, I understand him.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

And I'm going, I'm going to protect the, the, you know, his inner child in this way.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, there's also, there's also something about you and Jason together. Like it was actually quite tender. Like it was two broken hearted giants who were just like trying to like help each other through a rough patch, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

It's really true. They've both lost something. They both lost something they love and they're trying to recapture it in the form of brain. So yeah, you have to, it has.

[Joe Manganiello]

To hurt for us.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Manganiello]

In order for like you and Robin to then make fun of him for it. He doesn't realize it.

[Craig Thomas]

Which is also really funny. Ted and Robin making fun. Ted and Robin being sort of dicks about it and really busting Marshall's ch. Marshall like calling up for like advice in this weird situation he's found himself in with Brad and you guys being of no help and you're just taking the piss out of him was great.

[Josh Radnor]

I also want to say, Joe, that I often like will watch the episode. I'll kind of send Craig like a line that's just, was the one that's rattling around in my head the most. And in this episode I just wrote btw, you totally didn't oversell the Eggs Benny, which is just an unbelievably good, well written line and delivered flawlessly, no.

[Joe Manganiello]

Irony, with a mouthful. A mouthful?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. Of Eggs Benny. I only call it Eggs Benny. Ever since that episode. I don't think there's any other word for that.

[Joe Manganiello]

Now people, people make me do that line to them a lot. A lot. Btw, which is also another abbreve.

[Craig Thomas]

It's an abbreve. She hated my abbreves.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah. So I know that after this season because we're talking about season two. I know there was talk about me coming on as a regular, but what I heard was that the network wanted more of a stunt cast if they were going to add to.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, because we were not a ratings hit yet. We were on the, we were on the come up there. We were on the come and there was there even into season two and three there was talk of like this star, this blah blah, blah. And thank God that went away. At a certain point I heard there.

[Joe Manganiello]

Was like, hey, Joe, as Brad as a regular. And they were like, hey, how about Nicole Richie?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, totally. It's always like, it was always Whoever was like the zeitgeisty person of the moment maybe pitched you and you're like, how in God's name would we do that? Do that? Yeah. No, Joe's funny. Let's bring.

[Joe Manganiello]

Are you recapping Brad?

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, hear me out. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You were often up against Nicole back in the day.

[Craig Thomas]

I remember she almost got that personal trainer role in that monologue show, Felicia Rashad.

[Joe Manganiello]

Like, I mean, it was like, can they just get out of my way.

[Craig Thomas]

So I can have a career cut through business?

[Joe Manganiello]

I love you, Nicole Richie, wherever you want.

[Craig Thomas]

She is great, Joe. And then we just to jump ahead just to share the tragedy of tv. We're reveling in the success of this episode and you being on the show. We did try to do a pilot with you, Carter and I. That's how much we loved you. We said, we need to get this guy on the show. We need to give him more and more episodes on the show. And to put you in a pilot that was set in Pittsburgh. So it kind of pulled the pilot. You was in your roots. It was in your house. And you played a character who was like kind of Brad as a dad in a way. Like, he was just. The guy was just 100 million percent committed to his baby, who he only referred to as Charlotte. He would call his baby. He'd be wearing his baby, be like, Champ's taking a nap on me right now. And like, he was like the most enthusiastic, like, open hearted bro dad. And it was the funniest part of that pilot. The whole pilot should have been that. It should have been this. It should have been the pilot built around that. And looking back on it, maybe that's why it's lost to history. It's called living on a prayer. It was a funny show with a funny cast. But I gotta say, you really popped. And we were like, oh, maybe that should have been the whole show, just him talking about Champ.

[Joe Manganiello]

I was supposed to do Pittsburgh east, which is real thick. And you know, I say things like, George Washington is the first president. United States, Don Air. We get Don and Dontana Washington, stellar game on. On Sunday on some irons. You know, it's like a real. And I was so. I laid it on so thick. The idea was that there were going to be like, subtitles.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, we did talk about that. Really lean into that.

[Joe Manganiello]

When I went to test, the network was like, what is that? No. Even though it was hilarious, all of my hopes and dreams as this Pittsburgh sports dad were embodied or manifest in this. This baby who's in diapers. It was played by a babe. They were coming and hand me the baby.

[Craig Thomas]

Champ made a deuce kind of thing. Gotta change the diaper, Champ. She said Champ so many times.

[Joe Manganiello]

The amazing thing about this baby was, was the baby its pants at the right time during the scene.

[Craig Thomas]

What a master.

[Josh Radnor]

A master B actor.

[Joe Manganiello]

There's a take somewhere in this pilot that never made it to air where I'm holding the kid and I'm all just like, yeah, the Champ, you know? And I always refer to him as the Champ. Like, the Champ. Me and the Champ are going to go do this or I'll see you later. Me and the Champ are going over here.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Manganiello]

And then I'm like, yeah, so me and the Champ are going to get out here.

[Craig Thomas]

And he goes method. He was.

[Joe Manganiello]

The baby was method into my chest mic craps.

[Craig Thomas]

Somewhere that footage exists somewhere.

[Joe Manganiello]

People howling behind the monitors. My next line is like, whoa.

[Craig Thomas]

Joe.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you want to come. Do you want to come clean and admit that wasn't the baby? It's been 20 years. You can tell us. You can tell us.

[Craig Thomas]

Sorry, America. You never get to see that. It was funny and it didn't go. And it was one of those heartbreakers. But thank God. Thank God you were, Brad. Thank God you were so fucking funny that we kept bringing you back. And maybe we will bring you back on here if you're around to talk about one of these crazy, huge eps that you're in because you are so fucking great. We just hear for years and years and years of how much people love you on the show. That's why we kept bringing you back. That's why you did that pilot. I wish we could have done even more. But, man, thank you for being on this TV show. You were so funny, and it's just like, we're honored that you're part of this universe, man. Joe Manganiello, thank you for being with us, buddy.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, man, great to see you. Thanks for dropping by.

[Craig Thomas]

One of our favorite parts of doing this podcast is hearing from the fans and hearing from you guys. You can reach out to us at how we madeyourmother.com go to contact and write us a message. You can submit audio messages and you might hear it or hear us read it on the show. And it's always one of our favorite parts. And here's one case in point. And the funny thing is, this episode, this week, the episode we're talking about, World's Greatest Couple, is written by Brenda Shea. And this is a Brenda Another Brenda. I hope it's not Brenda Shea writing for the show. That would seem like a cheat.

[Josh Radnor]

We'd like to formally dedicate this episode to all the Brenda's episodes.

[Craig Thomas]

Everyone named Brenda. It's just Brenda talking about how much she liked her own episode. No, it's Brenda from New Jersey. And here's what she has to say. Hi everyone. I cannot truly find the words to describe how much this show means to me and how deeply I have come to love it. I am currently 29 years old and have watched this show since I was about 17. I've rewatched the entire series more times than I could count and leaned on it as a source of comfort through all stages of my adult life. So far, I learned new lessons and connect with new themes in the show every time I watch. My long term relationship of six years has hit a crossroads and I've been having strong feelings for some time now that I need to separate and go down my own path in order to chase my dreams and feel fulfilled with my life. I love my partner very much and do want to marry him one day and that is the goal we have been working towards recently. But I am at a point right now where I feel stuck and unsure if I can move forward with marriage without pursuing some other life experiences first. I really relate to Lily in these last few episodes, needing to put herself first and feeling anxious about tying the knot without getting to travel and pursue her passions. I wanted to thank you for depicting this struggle in the show and showing us that sometimes you have to make mistakes to know for sure that it's a mistake. It has given me so much comfort rewatching these episodes because even though these are fictional stories, it helps to be reminded that even the strongest couples like Marshall and Lily go through struggles and have challenges to overcome. And that's okay, because what is meant to be will still be in the end. That's very wise. Those are very wise words.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what occurred to me as I was listening to that, Craig is. Is you know when you have your first heartbreak or your first career disappointment or like the first of anything is the most devastating, the most calamitous because you have no evidence that you're going to survive it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, yes.

[Josh Radnor]

And then you survive it and then it happens again and you go, okay, this is no fun. I still dislike this, but I do have evidence that it is survivable. And I think in the absence of, of either an older sibling or an older friend telling you, putting a hand on your shoulder, saying this Happened to me. This show can be that for people. You can see that. Okay. Oh, Marshall and Lily broke up and she went off to pursue her. Whatever. But they still got back. Or Ted got heartbroken. But the heart is resilient. Things can work out. I think this show can be. Be like a whisper of. It is a whisper of a future self to a current self. But it can provide that for the viewers.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Not only that it's survivable, but that you can be stronger from it. Right. And Marshall and the League get back together. Sorry. Spoilers. And come out the other end stronger. And some of Martian Lily is based on my wife and I. My wife and I did in our 20s. We broke up for a little while and we got back together and got married. And it was very much the Marshall. And it was really hard, but maybe it was necessary. And the story did continue past that. And even if it hadn't, and even if it doesn't for Brenda and that relationship or whatever, it's survivable. It's survivable. And you will come out the other side. I think that's a great way to look at it.

[Josh Radnor]

It was a strange moment for me when Rebecca moved in with me.

[Craig Thomas]

Are we talking about this finally? Because I've been waiting to get into.

[Josh Radnor]

This and help me with my one night stands. Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

You are the Barney in our friend group. That's the weird thing. It's very confusing. But you played Ted on the show phenomenal. Well, that was a great letter. I'm so glad that people engage with the show at these moments that are like crossroads moments. I think that was her word. Crossroads moments of life. And I like that. The perspective of the show can let people know there's another side. You will cross that road Raging river and you will get somewhere else and. And you'll be okay.

[Joe Manganiello]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Big thanks to Joe Manganela for joining us today. It was so much fun. And Craig, great to be with you today. And Alec and our gang over here. And we'll see you next time. Thanks for watching along with us. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by me, Alec Lev. And our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own Josh Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email or voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack and check out his music and everything [e-mail] order Craig Thomas's debut novel, that's Not How It Happened, wherever books are sold and check Check out his other published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My own Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack to learn more about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research, check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. People will, in fact dance.

[Josh Radnor]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City.