How We Met Ashley Williams | S1E14 "Zip, Zip, Zip"

Summary

Episode Summary: How We Met Ashley Williams | S1E14 "Zip, Zip, Zip"

Release Date: July 7, 2025

In this engaging episode of How We Made Your Mother, hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve deep into the intricacies of bringing the beloved character Victoria to life in the iconic sitcom How I Met Your Mother (HIMYM). Featuring special guest Ashley Williams, who portrayed Victoria in 16 episodes, the discussion offers listeners a behind-the-scenes look at the creative and emotional journey of both the actors and the show's creators.

---

1. Welcoming Ashley Williams

The episode begins with Josh and Craig introducing Ashley Williams, warmly welcoming her to the podcast. Ashley expresses her enthusiasm, noting her appreciation for the podcast and her affection for the show.

Ashley Williams [02:44]: "Hi, Josh. Hi, Craig. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I love the podcast."

2. The Audition and Early Set Experiences

Ashley reminisces about her audition for HIMYM, highlighting the supportive and inclusive environment fostered by the show's creators. She contrasts this with her previous experience on Good Morning Miami, emphasizing the stark difference in set culture.

Ashley Williams [04:15]: "I remember the audition so well. And I remember coming in and being absolutely terrified of a multicam format."

Ashley credits Pam Freyman, the show's director, for creating a safe and welcoming atmosphere that allowed her to thrive despite initial fears.

Ashley Williams [16:23]: "Pam Freyman, who's magic."

3. Chemistry and Intimacy Without a Live Audience

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the unique chemistry between Josh and Ashley, especially during intimate scenes like those in the episode "Drumroll Please." Josh likens their scenes to a cinematic experience, drawing parallels to films like Before Sunrise and Before Sunset.

Josh Radnor [07:05]: "It felt incredibly intimate. It felt like this is not an average sitcom. It had this elevated cinematic quality to it."

Ashley adds that Pam Freyman played a crucial role in ensuring their performances remained genuine and grounded, even without the immediate feedback of a live studio audience.

Ashley Williams [15:44]: "Pam really grounded me. So for me, that was all her."

4. Transition to "Zip, Zip, Zip" and Its Impact

The hosts discuss the transition from the romantically charged "Drumroll Please" to the more sitcom-oriented "Zip, Zip, Zip." This shift presented challenges in maintaining the same level of intimacy, especially as other characters like Marshall and Lily viewed Josh and Ashley's characters through a more comedic lens.

Josh Radnor [10:58]: "Who am I playing for? Like, I sometimes feel like actors get jacked up and they play for the audience, but you've really got to play for the camera."

Craig highlights how "Zip, Zip, Zip" served as a necessary balance, introducing humor while still honoring the romantic foundation established in previous episodes.

Craig Thomas [17:05]: "Zip, Zip, Zip was sort of a silly, light, fun episode. It's very different compared to Drumroll Please."

5. Navigating Guest Star Dynamics

Ashley shares her extensive experience as a guest star on various shows, noting her ability to seamlessly integrate into different set cultures. She credits the HIMYM team with making her feel immediately at home, a rarity compared to other sets where guest stars might feel like outsiders.

Ashley Williams [41:16]: "Every set is completely different. But on HIMYM, it felt special from day one."

Josh echoes this sentiment, appreciating the relaxed and creative environment that allowed for authentic performances.

Josh Radnor [44:27]: "It's supposed to be fun. Whenever you were on set, it was a reminder to me, it's supposed to be fun."

6. Personal Anecdotes and Behind-the-Scenes Moments

The conversation takes a personal turn as Ashley recounts moments of vulnerability, such as her concerns about portraying intimate scenes authentically. She shares a heartfelt story about practicing kissing scenes with her husband, Neil, to overcome nervousness.

Ashley Williams [34:11]: "Neil and I have been together for 22 years. Neil is famously good at kissing, which we've all, by the way."

Josh reflects on his own journey as a relatively new actor on a long-running show, emphasizing the unpredictable nature of television success.

Josh Radnor [26:56]: "No one knows why something works, why something doesn't work. Something can have all the elements and not work. Something can come out of nowhere and become beloved and iconic."

7. The Legacy of Victoria's Character Arc

Ashley and the hosts discuss Victoria's character arc, particularly focusing on episodes like "Drumroll Please" and "Zip, Zip, Zip." They explore how Victoria's introduction and development added depth to the show's narrative and resonated with fans.

Ashley Williams [28:39]: "TV allows you to discover and expand characters as you go. Victoria's journey was a testament to that process."

Craig laments the limited number of episodes featuring Victoria, expressing a desire for more exploration of her character.

Craig Thomas [42:39]: "I wish it had been a 24-episode season so we could have added two more Victoria episodes."

8. The Creative Process and Set Dynamics

The trio delves into the collaborative nature of sitcom production, discussing how actors and writers continually evolve characters based on real-time interactions and performances. They highlight the importance of trust and open communication on set.

Josh Radnor [44:25]: "How do we get to do this? How are we this lucky? And at its best, that's what art feels like."

9. Concluding Reflections

As the episode wraps up, Ashley emphasizes the joy and passion that comes with being part of a creative team. She shares her fond memories of performing and the lasting impact HIMYM has had on her career.

Ashley Williams [43:33]: "I really love what we do. I think it is the most fun."

The hosts tease a two-part series, hinting at further discussions and insights in the upcoming episode.

Craig Thomas [47:05]: "We had so much great Ashley Williams that we've actually made this one a two-part."

---

Notable Quotes

• Josh Radnor [10:58]: "Who am I playing for? [...] You've really got to play for the camera."

• Ashley Williams [28:39]: "TV allows you to discover and expand characters as you go. Victoria's journey was a testament to that process."

• Josh Radnor [44:25]: "How do we get to do this? How are we this lucky? [...] That's what art feels like."

---

Conclusion

This episode of How We Made Your Mother offers a heartfelt and insightful exploration of Ashley Williams' role in HIMYM, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs of portraying a beloved character within a dynamic ensemble. Through candid conversations and personal anecdotes, Josh Radnor, Craig Thomas, and Ashley Williams celebrate the magic that made HIMYM a timeless favorite among fans worldwide.

Transcript

[June's Journey]

The search for truth never ends. Introducing June's Journey, a hidden object mobile game with a captivating story. Connect with friends, explore the roaring twenties and enjoy thrilling activities and challenges while supporting environmental causes. After seven years, the adventure continues with our Immersive Travels feature. Explore distant cultures and engage in exciting experiences. There's always something new to discover. Are you ready? Download June's Journey now ON Android or iOS.

[Josh Radnor]

If you went on a road trip.

[Craig Thomas]

And you didn't stop for a Big.

[Josh Radnor]

Mac or drop a crispy fry between.

[Ashley Williams]

The car seats or use your McDonald's.

[Josh Radnor]

Bag as a placemat, then that wasn't a road trip.

[Craig Thomas]

It was just a really long drive.

[Josh Radnor]

At participating McDonald's.

[Ashley Williams]

Hey, guys, my name's Louis. I'm 27 years old and I'm from Bavaria, Germany. I'm a very sensitive person. I dream too big and I feel too much. And growing up, it's been so easy to become emotionally closed off. I often catch myself drifting into this kind of a numbness where I just feel I don't belong. But Ted gave and still gives me the strength to keep fighting for that vulnerable part of myself, even when it so often feels like a fight for a lost cause. I'll stay out here on this cold roof for a little longer. And I cannot thank you guys enough for that.

[Louis]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, hello and welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother. I'm Josh Radner. I played Ted Mosby on How I Met yout Mother every single episode from 2005 to 2013. Is that right?

[Craig Thomas]

14.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

No. 13. 13. Damn it.

[Josh Radnor]

13. Yeah. And I am joined.

[Craig Thomas]

14. Sorry, Josh. It is definitely 14. It was nine. Here we go. Good start.

[Josh Radnor]

Great start. Hi. Craig Thomas. I'm joined by Craig Thomas. He co created the show with Carter Bass. Hi, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm disoriented but happy to be here. I don't know what year it is.

[Josh Radnor]

We are joined today by. A ray of sunshine is illuminating this riverside studio space. With us today, we have the very wonderful, endlessly entertaining and fun and delightful Ashley Williams, who played Victoria in 16 episodes. Is that right?

[Ashley Williams]

I think that's correct.

[Craig Thomas]

We can't count. But don't take our word for it. We don't even know how many seasons we did.

[Josh Radnor]

This is not. We're not nailing the math this time. Hi, Ashley. Hi. Welcome.

[Ashley Williams]

Hi, Josh. Hi, Craig. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I love the podcast.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, thanks.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah, it's so cool to be now on a podcast that I'm genuinely a fan of. I'm really enjoying listening to the show.

[Josh Radnor]

So make us a quick commercial. What do you love about our podcast?

[Craig Thomas]

And by the way, stealth f you to every other podcast you've ever been on.

[Ashley Williams]

Oh, shoot. Oh, shoot. I gotta be careful.

[Craig Thomas]

You are the best, Ashley. Well, she is the best of the best. The day is better when you see Ashley, when you experience just being anywhere near her, even on a computer screen. Thank you for being Victoria and thank you for being here. We love you very much.

[Ashley Williams]

I love you guys. I'm so happy. It was a miraculous job back in the day. And the dividends continue.

[Josh Radnor]

Ashley, how do you like? I. I know that was a TED centered testimonial from our friend in Bavaria, but what's that like when you hear these testimonials about what the show means to people and how invested they continue to be after so many years?

[Ashley Williams]

You know what's so funny is, like, you guys have said this before, and I know just from talking to you personally, like, at the time, you know, we were. Josh, like, we were newer actors in the industry, and I was like, oh, my gosh, how did you get a pilot, Josh? Like, how did you. You know what I mean? Like, that was. The majority of our initial conversations when we first got to know each other was like, I can't believe you're on this show. I can't believe it's picked up for 13, like, 12.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, do you. Do you remember? I don't know if you remember where I met you. We talked about this, but I don't think you'll remember. I went to a taping of Good Morning Miami because I was friends with Mark Feuerstein, and I met you kind of briefly, but that's how I knew you, because you were on that show. You remember that show?

[Ashley Williams]

That's fascinating. I do remember that show. But what was really interesting about that show, that was my first TV job out of college. I had only done a bunch of theater. And Marc Feuerstein is one of the golden humans in my life. Shout out to Mark. Yes, shout out to Mark. And also, it was an education in what I think is really common in sitcom culture, which is it's incredibly competitive amongst the writers to make sure that people's jokes are getting in. And tape night can go badly and tape night can go well. And it's stressful. And the ratings are up and down. It's not, you know, I've now done a ton of different mediums in television and this, the multicam medium had been an incredibly stressful medium for me to be thrown into right out of school. So it's so interesting that you came to a taping of Good Morning Miami because they were incredibly stressful times for me. And it's part of how when I first started on the show, I first got the job. And I mean, I remember the audition so well. I remember booking it.

[Josh Radnor]

On How I Met yout Mother or Good Morning Miami.

[Ashley Williams]

No, on How I Met yout Mother. I remember it so well. And I remember coming in and being absolutely terrified of a multicam format. And I remember day one, you all setting the tone, which was this kind, all inclusive. Like first thing out of the gate is we finished the table read and we all went straight to breakfast. And it was all under the, you know, guidance of Pam Freyman. Like, it was a very, it was a very like, you're safe here, everything's okay kind of vibe, which I definitely did not trust. I was like, sure, sure, we'll, we'll see what happens on tape night. You know, it was like my mentality was like, well, there's no tape night.

[Craig Thomas]

It's. It's a tape three days.

[Josh Radnor]

Which.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you might not have known coming in.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah, I didn't. And I also then was like, as soon as you were like, no, no, it's different around here. I was like, well, I'm definitely gonna get fired after the network run through.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, did you really feel that?

[Ashley Williams]

Oh, yeah, big time. Because that was the culture I came from on Good Morning Miami. People were replaced, left, you know, table reads after run throughs, all that. So in so many ways, the show was this healing salve for my soul, you know, my.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, for your multi camera wounds. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And that was a Good Morning Miami was like a live studio audience, like high pressure. Like we have a big. That see, that changes the vibe so much.

[Josh Radnor]

I think I do have a very strong memory, Ashley, of watching James Burrows, who was directing and watching him not watch the monitors, but snap his fingers. Like he's like. He was like a bandleader. He was like pacing the.

[Ashley Williams]

The show, which was such a great education in comedy because he taught me about the musicality of serving up the joke and all of that, which I truly like didn't from theater. It was a little bit more organic, you know, but this was serve it and serve it hard and land your jokes. And if you don't somebody's going to come talk to you and be like, this is not working.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. You know, it's an interesting thing. Like, I always. Maybe you share this. I always working with older actors because they have a level of, like, relaxation and not giving a shit that is so enviable when you're younger. You're like, how do you get to that place where you're just, like, so relaxed? The jokes, you're not even. You don't look like you're trying. You look like you're just thinking about your sandwich you're gonna have for lunch. And it's endlessly watchable and captivating. There's something about being a new actor and especially, you know, I think. Cause we both went to theater school. You went to Carnegie. No. You went to bu, right?

[Ashley Williams]

I went to bu. My husband went to Carnegie Mellon.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And I went to nyu. You. And I felt like I was trained for theater jobs. Like, I knew how to get a script, I knew how to do the rehearsal. I knew how to be in the theater. They do not teach you how to be on a set of a TV show of a movie. Like, you are really thrown in the deep end. Like. Like, I don't. I remember Andre Brauer came and talked to us, and he's like, do you know what the tape on the floor means? Like, there's such a language of a set that you have to figure out and if you're good enough to get cast or you're lucky enough to get cast. And often both. You are really thrown into the. You're just like, tossed off the boat. And you're like, you better learn how to swim. You know, but you have to really. You have to really pay attention.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah. I also think, like, for those of us trained in theater, which truly. I thought I was going to be doing regional theater in Ashland, Oregon, for the rest of. Like, my agent was like, come for pilot season. And I was like, it's not going to go well. And suddenly I'm on after Friends and before Seinfeld in a sitcom, and it's theater, but it's taped. And I was. I still. I'm still confused. Who am I playing for? Where's the. You know, how big do I go? The. The. The camera's right here, but the audience is over here. Can they hear me? Like, what. You know, like, and. And working out levels is so much of what you're trying to figure out in a multicam setting. That was my issue was, like, how big, how broad, how subtle, though they can't they literally can't even hear me, you know, as opposed to in a single cam format, it's a little bit more sort of organic and you can try it again.

[Josh Radnor]

And, you know, going to multicam tapings, and I've been to a bunch in my life, it's funny because I was on this famous multicam show, but I haven't even been to that many multicam traditional tapings. But my experience was always, this is hilarious, right? It's, like, really fun. It's really. The writers throw in changes and the audience gets excited. They're. They're pumping the audience full of candy and sugar to keep them, you know, alert for three and a half hours. And when I would watch the same episode on the air, I would be like, they seem cranked up. They seem amped up in a way that they didn't quite seem. And I always thought there was something about us. You know, we've talked about this, and we talked about this with Kobe. Like, the crew would laugh once, maybe chuckle on the second, you know, take, but you were not playing for laughs. On How I Met yout Mother, you knew you had to know where the laughs were, but you had to trust that the material was funny enough that in the absence of the immediate feedback, you would still be able to find your way. The jokes would make sense, the plot would make sense. There was just something about. I think it kept us a little more honest not to have that. That audience, like, and. And I. I agree with you. Like, who am I playing for? Like, I sometimes feel like actors get jacked up and they play for the audience, but you've really got to play for the camera.

[Louis]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New.

[Ashley Williams]

York.

[Josh Radnor]

Will be right back. Greg, can you feel it?

[Craig Thomas]

I can feel it. I don't know what it is yet, but I'm just going to say yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, but you can feel it. Summer's approaching. Can you feel summer on its way?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. It's so here. It's almost here. It's basically already here.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost time for you to exodus out of here and get to your summer spot.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's true. It's true. I have become a migrating bird. My family and I wanted to buy a place up in the Berkshires on a lake, and we went and saw a beautiful place, and we fell in love with this house and we bought this house. It's on a lake in the country, in the woods. And it's just like, it's our happy place. And, yeah, that's where we spend the summers now. And we were up there like three months we're up there.

[Josh Radnor]

And it just sits. It just sits there when you're not there and you're just losing money every single day.

[Craig Thomas]

Wait a second.

[Josh Radnor]

You could be hosting on Airbnb.

[Craig Thomas]

You just trapped me. You made me walk right into that. I usually do that to you. And you've turned it around on me, Judo style. But. But, yes, I should. I'm letting it just go to waste. I'm doing nothing with the house. I'm just going to be brutally honest.

[Josh Radnor]

Let me tell you this. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host Craig one of my favorite tweets. Hey, do we still call them tweets? Like, is it.

[Craig Thomas]

It was a tweet when you read it.

[Josh Radnor]

I was a tweet when I read it. And it said. It said, why do people always say New York City smells like pee and never my pee smells like the greatest city in the world?

[Craig Thomas]

You know why? Because pee doesn't have a good edge. There's not a good marketing campaign for pee itself.

[Josh Radnor]

No.

[Craig Thomas]

Until now.

[Josh Radnor]

Until now. That's right. But we're not talking about human pee. I think they're talking about human pee. But we're talking about.

[Craig Thomas]

I'd rather talk about cat pee just while we're here. I made the time.

[Josh Radnor]

But it gets in the way of those beautiful smells of spring that we talk, you know, we've talked about. It really does gets in the way.

[Craig Thomas]

Look here. Here's the thing. Pretty Litter, right? Are you with me? Pretty Litter? If you've got a cat, get Pretty Litter. That's the quick version. You could fast forward at this point if you want.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm responding in agreement.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Pretty Litter gives you peace of mind. It changes color. This is my favorite part of Pretty Litter. It changes color to indicate early signs of potential illnesses in my cat. I don't have a cat. It's Schrodinger's cat. Really? Like urinary tract infections, kidney issues and more. I both have and don't have a cat. Josh. Yeah, and now I'm reading Josh's lines.

[Josh Radnor]

No, no, no. I want to pop out. You missed something so important.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay.

[Josh Radnor]

Pretty Litter's non clumping formula. Traps odor and moisture. It's ultra absorbent, it's lightweight, low dust, and one six pound bag works for up to a month.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. I can't believe I skipped non clumping. Because that is our favorite hyphenated word that we've gotten to discover through our relationship with Pretty Loader guys. It helps keep your house smelling fresh and clean. Try it and you'll love it. Go to prettyloader.com hwmym those letters stand for How We Made youe mother. To save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettyloader.com hwmym to save 20% on your 1st order, free cat toy. I'm gonna keep saying that. Apparently. No, I'm not. Prettyliter.com whitm terms and conditions apply. C Site for details Non clumping.

[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, Ashley, coming into himyum once you realized what it was that it was this little three day movie shoot and you didn't have to play to the back row of the bleachers, did that change the game of what you did? For example, we'll just say this because we haven't said this yet. We're going to talk about kind of Victoria's whole arc on the show with Ashley today and also touch a little bit on zip, zip, zip because that's kind of of ostensibly the episode we're talking about. But we're kind of going to mix it all together for everybody. There may be a couple spoilers you might jump ahead in Victoria's arc. So just know that comma audience. But back to Ashley. Okay, so I'm thinking of like in drum roll please just to jump into that one. The smallness of your and Josh's scenes together. They're very intimate and the two of you on that piano bench and Ted is playing piano and you guys are really connecting and really flirting. But it's small and intimate and if that was in front of a live stud there would be a temptation to play it a totally different way. And something about your guys connectivity in that scene and many other scenes like it in that episode and others. Like is that kind of impossible to do in that sort of like amped up setting of the live studio audience? And did you feel that difference of being on himyeon?

[Ashley Williams]

So here's where I bring in my only audience member on How I Met yout Mother was Pam. It was, I was just, just doing the play for her and she was very strict about like, like whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like don't, don't reek of desperation here. Ashley, you know, and really helped me to contain, you know, and keep it really real and grounded. That for me that was all her And I. I had. Weirdly, I think she was doing.

[Craig Thomas]

That's our director, Pam Freyman, by the way.

[Ashley Williams]

Pam Freyman, who's magic.

[Craig Thomas]

Just like Ashley.

[Ashley Williams]

She's magic. But she was doing another show when I was doing Good Morning Miami. And I kept seeing her and being like, I'm scared. This is hard. And she would sort of counsel me in the parking lot, you know, about being on this multicam that I was on. And so having her there, and I trusted her implicitly, and she really grounded me. So for me, it was all about her. What about you, Josh? Did you. I mean.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I'm thinking back to Drumroll, please. And I just remember it felt like a film. Like, it felt like a film. And I know it was kind of structured to be. I mean, it was a little bit. It's the traditional nonlinear kind of fractured narrative. But at the same time, if you bookend all our scenes together, it had that kind of Richard Linkletter before Sunrise, before Sunset quality of, like, two people discovering each other. And the audience getting to watch you discover them. I do remember, I love that last scene with us where I come in and my bow tie's untied. And it just looks like the wedding's already over. You know, we've just been wandering through ballrooms and stuff for so long. And that, you know, where you kind of have me close my eyes and. Or, you know, Victoria has Ted close his eyes, and you're gone. You're like, poof, gone. I remember our almost kiss and our. I don't know. It felt incredibly intimate. It felt like this is not an average sitcom. It had this elevated cinematic quality to it, which I remember I felt like by that point, we were really dropped into the tone of the episode. Like, this is what we're making. And then to get into a little bit. Zip, zip, zip. Although we can talk forever about. Drum roll. But in that episode, we became a little bit more of a sitcom couple. We were, like, being. Being held up to. We were. We were celebrated and lionized in Drumroll for our romanticism. And we were somewhat ridiculed in the next one, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Because it was a public apology to you both for that.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, no, it was because it was seen through Marshall and Lily's eyes. That was part of the thing was, like, when you watch a couple in love, you. If you're, you know, a couple. Canoes down the river on your relationship, you kind of. You're both, like. You're both jealous and disgusted, all at the same time, of the couple. So we were kind of. We. We were the sacrificial lambs in that episode, and I think we had to, you know, crank it back to a little bit of a. More of a sitcom style, but. Drumroll. And even the end, you know, it's so. There's so much, like, soaring romanticism about it. I think it's a really. It's a great example of what How I Met yout Mother I think does best.

[Craig Thomas]

It's magic, that episode. I mean, you guys, in that episode. It is a romantic comedy. It feels like a movie. It feels like a movie in 22 minutes, and that's a really special one. That's some people's favorite episode of the entire series, including Pam Freyman. I think Pam would say that's way up there, if not the one for her.

[Ashley Williams]

She called us into, I think your trailer after. Drumroll, please. Had been edited together, and she was like, I need both of you to come and sit down and watch this.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

That's so sweet.

[Ashley Williams]

I never knew that.

[Josh Radnor]

I do remember that. Yeah.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to watch myself. I'm going to hate this. And she was like, I don't care. Like, I want you to just see this, you know? Like, just watch this and just get a. Just understand the tone of what you guys did and what you created.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Pam had an incredible ability to make you feel like you were on the right track, like you were. It's such a. It's like what Ashley's describing on early experiences. Like, it's so uncomfortable to feel like, I'm not getting this. I'm not getting this. I'm not what they're looking for. I'm not. And. And Pam does the opposite. She makes you feel like you can't make a wrong turn. And if you do, we're going to redirect you, but with, like, this loving hand.

[Ashley Williams]

I think that's safety. She's just a safety person. She makes you feel safe.

[Josh Radnor]

She just creates conditions where you can do your best work and you feel the most free. And it's not like, coddling, and it's certainly not. She's not, like, telling you it's great when it's not great. You know what I mean? Like, she's really honest. But, yeah, she just creates conditions. And then when. I mean, her thing of, like, wanting us to see it, I think was a little bit like, you should trust what you're doing here. Like, trust us. Trust sue in the editing room. Trust Crowder and Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. I Think it's because of what you were saying about Good Morning Miami Ashley, like, she was showing you this intimacy can work. This can be this small and sweet and real and be very funny and totally play. So just be confident in that. And I know with Zip, Zip, zip, we kind of then immediately undermined that after Drum roll, please. And made it kind of, like, silly and ridiculous. It's sort of a silly, light, fun episode. It's very different into it on the drum roll, certainly for you guys. And it's kind of more of Marshall and Lily's perspective on the two of you on Ted and Victoria. But there would be more to come. Like Cupcake. There's a lot that episode Cupcake is about. It's that moment in a relationship where we're like, it's too soon to define this. This much. But also, I may leave in a few days for two years, so we have to. And that was very human and real. And I think everybody has had a moment like that in some relationship in some way. And you guys played it very real and small. And we got to see the sort of Ted side of that story and the Victoria side of that story, and. And that, again, felt very filmic. It felt like Richard Linkletter Before Sunrise. Josh and I talk about all the time how much we love those movies. Did you realize you were sort of safe to keep doing that and that it worked once you saw. Drumroll, please. Did it take that moment, Pam showing you that, to feel like, oh, yeah, this works on the show? I'm not going to. You never seemed like you were worried about getting fired, by the way. You seemed very assured and calm.

[Josh Radnor]

I never would have thought that, Ashley.

[Craig Thomas]

I never would have thought that that.

[Ashley Williams]

Might be where the acting comes in.

[Craig Thomas]

You're acting the whole time.

[Ashley Williams]

I specifically rem. In the audition. I made a joke, and I made you guys laugh.

[Josh Radnor]

Was I in your audition? Did I read with you? Yeah. I didn't think I did it.

[Craig Thomas]

It was me and Pam and Carter, I think. I think because it was. We knew it was such an important role, and we all wanted to be there. Yeah.

[Ashley Williams]

It was the three of you. And by the way, I remember getting to the audition waiting room, and there weren't that many people there, and I was like. And it was my. It was the first session. It wasn't a callback. It wasn't like a. It didn't. I don't even think it was a producer session. It was just an audition. And. But it felt intimate. Like, it felt special. There's Sometimes you show up and there's literally a hundred people in front of you, and you have to, like, send a text like, can someone let my dog out?

[Craig Thomas]

You know, I'm gonna be here all day.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah. This was a different. This felt special. And I remember I was wearing. I had just gotten this, like, very cool shirt. It was, like, this, like, neat top, and it was, like, sparkly. It was. Whatever. It was 2005, so I don't know how cool it actually was, but I was proud of it. And I came in, and either you or Carter said, I like your. Your shirt. And I said.

[Josh Radnor]

They were saying, hot top, bro.

[Craig Thomas]

Hot top, bro.

[Josh Radnor]

But you can't say that. You can't say that to an actress.

[Ashley Williams]

No. Maybe you could have in 2005, but I said, thank you. It was really expensive. And you guys started laughing, and I.

[Craig Thomas]

Was like, that's funny.

[Ashley Williams]

It was like a nibble. It was like a nibble. Like, I was like, oh, my God, they're picking up what I'm putting down. So much of the time, you walk into an audition room, and they're like, can you stop making jokes? We just.

[Craig Thomas]

We're trying to make comedy. Stop joking.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But you guys laughed, and I was like, ooh, like, they're here. They're with me.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. And we were.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah. And you were.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, that's a great observation. I had that feeling at my audition too. Like, these are human beings who are in the room with me. Like, sometimes there is that glazed thing of, like, oh, I can't do anything to puncture through whatever is between me and this table, you know, Like. But it's such a relief when you. When you get in front of human beings who. Who see you. It's. It's like, those are the jobs you get generally. Or those. Those are the jobs you get close on. Or, like.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah, yeah. But. But it was interesting because, like, I remember during this time and going back to, like, your. Your first initial question, I was deeply in the world of desperately trying to get a job when I booked how I met your mother, and I had, like. And it went on. I mean, I shot 13 pilots in a row as the lead. I mean, it just didn't stay. It was just every pilot season, I was testing twice a week. I was just right in there and never really was able to claw my way into a secure job. And so. So much of what I was doing when I was on that set was like, oh, my go, gosh. They did it. And I remember, like, cornering You, Josh, and being like, did you test? How many other test offers did you have? And how did it go? And is this scary? And are you okay? And I remember it was so much about like, are we. Are we gonna be okay? Cause you were also like, I don't know. Like, I don't think many people are watching this show. It kind of feels like a little secret.

[Craig Thomas]

Not many of them would have aired by the time you were there. Right. We were like, still this new show. Who knows? Who knew what was gonna happen? Yeah.

[Ashley Williams]

Well, I was just gonna say I was on set the day that you guys got your back nine.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, wow. I didn't remember that. Yeah, that's cool.

[Ashley Williams]

I think you.

[Craig Thomas]

You're a good luck charm.

[Ashley Williams]

Carter may have known previously, but the cast didn't know. And I was there when you came in and made the announcement. And it was like, such a big deal, you know?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, that's so. I'm so glad that you were part of that because you were such a huge part of those back nine episodes. Like, that was right. I mean, that was your entry point was right then. It's like, that's so cool. I'm so glad you're a part of that.

[Josh Radnor]

It's also funny to think, Ashley, that you were turning to me as if I was some sort of resident expert on being on a show that lasted. Like, it was my first. I had had everything that could have happened to me on a TV show, except it being a long running hit. Like, I got replaced on my first one. The second one was canceled. We shot six, aired three. The third one didn't get picked up. And then I did How I Met yout Mother. Right. So I was new to the game of, oh, the network wants to keep us on the air. Like, that wasn't something I had had any experience with, but I was a part of this thing that just kept working, you know?

[Ashley Williams]

Well, maybe that was why it was so interesting to me, because you and I were in the same place. I had done a show a little.

[Josh Radnor]

A little bit, like, the longer you've been at it, like William Goldman, the screenwriter of, you know, Princess Bride and all these other great things. But he said no one knows anything. Like, famously, he said about Hollywood, like, no one knows anything. No one knows why something works, why something doesn't work. Something can have all the elements and not work. Another thing comes out of nowhere, and it's just beloved and embraced and iconic. And I think that we were both in the midst of, like, how do you make this work. How do you get a thing going? And you, you were turning to us like, hey, you guys seem to have a thing going. How'd you do it? And we were like, we have no idea. We don't know. Like, I, I did, I did all those, you know, I did all those pilots with like the best of intentions. Like, I was really trying hard. I was doing my best. I was showing up, you know, and this one just worked. So I have a question for you. Actually, one of the interesting things I think about doing a long running show is the writers are figuring out who you are as you go. And they're also. We've talked a little bit about this. Like, you have an idea. Like, for instance, Marshall was not written to be 6 foot 4, but then Jason Segel gets cast and his height becomes a vein of comedy. They can mine.

[Craig Thomas]

He was written to be seven feet tall, but Jason was a little shorter than that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, right. But you came on and they had this idea for this character. And then you're obviously, you're effectively the writing as they go. They're, they're tailoring this suit to you, but also you as an actor are opening up that new draft for the next episode. And you're like, oh, Victoria, she applied for a, a baking fellowship in Germany. Like, you're, you're learning new things about who this person is. Was that. Do you remember that as like a thing of like kind of discovering it as you go?

[Ashley Williams]

Well, that's one of my favorite things about. Right. About TV is, you know, I always felt like. I always feel like when I come into audition for a TV show, I'm going, all right, if you choose the Ashley Williams path, here's the path that you're gonna get. You know, like, here's. Here's the little pockets that you can go into.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Ashley Williams]

And you know, like, I remember I read in the script that I was tap dancing and my husband. Incredible tap dancer.

[Craig Thomas]

No way.

[Ashley Williams]

So, yeah. So you're making this up.

[Craig Thomas]

Neil, can you bring him in right now? Can he come? Can you get Neil? He comes on camera right now.

[Ashley Williams]

Wait, let me see.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, you're really doing it. I didn't. That was a joke. That was a joke. Neil's gonna hate me. Don't tell him it was my idea.

[Ashley Williams]

Okay, I won't. I feel like you're doing it. I might be in a meeting. I'm swear to God, I'm not doing it. But he. So he was doing. He was really good at tap dancing and I had to do the Two time step. What's it called? Whatever it's called. Where you bum, bum, bum. And I said to Neil, you have to teach me how to. How to do this. And we were in our. We were in this, like, tiny apartment in Santa Monica, and he's trying to freaking teach me how to do this, and I cannot get it right. And we're. I mean, he was trying to teach me for, like, an hour, you know, over and over and over again. And finally he was like, you're gonna have to lean into the fact that you're terrible at this.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

So that's the Ashley Williams path.

[Josh Radnor]

That's the Ashley Williams path. I'm terrible at this.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley Williams]

This is my husband, Neil.

[Josh Radnor]

Hi, Neil.

[Craig Thomas]

Neil, Neil.

[Ashley Williams]

My husband, Neil. Do you remember when you. I had to tap dance on the episode of How I Met yout Mother and you had to teach me how to tap dance, and you were like, you can't do it. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It was not.

[Ashley Williams]

Can you show them how to.

[Craig Thomas]

No, no, no, no. Are you not tap dancing right now? We feel like she's making this up.

[Ashley Williams]

No, absolutely not. But it is very good to see a little. She's an amazing tap dancer. Like, incredible.

[Josh Radnor]

Neil. I would have had the exact same response by. I know.

[Craig Thomas]

That's why I felt comfortable saying it. Jo, there's no chance in hell that you would have tap danced on a podcast with your wife. You would never. She's not fucking with us. Right? It Actually. You actually are good. I am actually really good. But. But I would never in a million years do it anywhere except for when.

[Ashley Williams]

She needed my help.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Very, very.

[Josh Radnor]

How'd you learn how to tap dance, Neil?

[Craig Thomas]

Crazy for you.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, sure. Harry Graner was on our show.

[Ashley Williams]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

He was the star. That's the part I played in high school. I was, like, tap dancing my face off in high school.

[Ashley Williams]

This is crazy, but when you. You were trying to teach me how to tap dance, and you said, you're gonna just have to lean into the comedy here because you're terrible at this.

[Craig Thomas]

This is not gonna look like.

[Ashley Williams]

You know, I came into Cardi, Craig, and I said, I have to put in, like, I don't really know how to tap dance.

[Craig Thomas]

And that was so funny.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah. So that was, say everybody.

[Louis]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you. New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now, commercials.

[Josh Radnor]

Craig, summer is upon us. Can you feel it?

[Craig Thomas]

It's 100 degrees out today, so, yeah, I feel it.

[Josh Radnor]

You feel it?

[Craig Thomas]

I'm feeling it.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I'M a little too much feeling it.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Well, when you get outside and you're strolling around and you're looking for your next next air conditioning port to land at, I imagine you're listening to some music, some podcasts.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I'm checking out this one where they talk about How I Met yout Mother all the time.

[Josh Radnor]

You're listening to I Hear. Yeah. How We Made youe Mother.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think it's called that.

[Josh Radnor]

What's your earbud of choice for listening to How We Made youe Mother these days?

[Craig Thomas]

Raycon is, is my earbud of choice. It is. We, we got to sample these because these, they're a lovely sponsor here on the podcast and it was great. I. My inaugural phone call was to Alec Lev, our producer. We chatted and then when I was done talking to Alec, I listened to some music as I was like fixing up the kitchen and stuff. And it was great. Yeah, I loved it.

[Josh Radnor]

Great. Well, if you want to be like Craig and who doesn't go to buy Raycon.com your mother to get 15% off Raycon's best selling everyday earbuds. Right now, Raycon is offering 15% off their best selling everyday earbuds only at BuyRaycon. R-A Y-C-O-N.com your mother BuyRaycon.com yourmother.

[Ashley Williams]

The.

[June's Journey]

Search for truth never ends. Introducing June's Journey, a hidden object mobile game with a captivating story. Connect with friends, explore the roaring twenties and enjoy thrilling activities and challenges while supporting environmental causes. After seven years, the adventure continues with our Immersive Travels feature. Explore distant cultures and engage in exciting experiences. There's always something new to discover. Are you ready? Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS.

[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials. Back to show Josh.

[Ashley Williams]

Do you remember when Neil had to ha. Do you remember what? Do you know what I'm going to say?

[Josh Radnor]

No.

[Ashley Williams]

Okay. So you sat me down one time. You said, Ashley, you said, every time you kiss me, oh, oh, shit.

[Josh Radnor]

I do know what you're gonna say. Go ahead. This is amazing. Go ahead.

[Ashley Williams]

Because every time you kiss me now, Neil and I had. Neil and I have been together for 22 years. So we had only been together for like a, maybe a year or so when I was, when I got how I met your mother. And I was, was absolutely obsessed and infatuated. Still am. But when every time Josh and I had to kiss on the show, I was very careful to have like, boundaries. Right. So I remember being like, like every time we kissed, I Would go like. Like I had, like. The only way I can describe it possibly is like, hard lips.

[Craig Thomas]

Hard lips.

[Josh Radnor]

Hard lips will hand.

[Craig Thomas]

Rip.

[Ashley Williams]

So one time, Josh was like, hey, can I talk to you about something? And I was like, yeah, anything. Anything. He was like, you kind of, like, are, like, pushing me away with your mouth every time we. I was like, are you serious? Oh, no. And then I brought. I sat down with Neil to watch an episode, and Neil was like, this is a big problem.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. Like, he saw it.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah, he totally saw it. And he was like, you have to stop. And then he sat with me on the couch and he was like, pretend I'm Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

I remember.

[Craig Thomas]

And I. Oh, my God, this is getting so weird right now, guys. This is getting so weird.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, now let me pretend you're Josh. Wait. So, yes, I 100% remember this now, but I think what I was saying was. And it was very delicate, what I was trying to do, which was to.

[Craig Thomas]

Say, how did you say this?

[Josh Radnor]

I think what I was saying was like, you're kissing me weird, right? I think that's all I was saying was, like, you're kissing me weird, and I'm participating in this. And I would love to create a safe space where you could relax. So I think what I. I, you know, I had such a weird job. I had to be like. Though I had to welcome actresses for nine years that I would like, either kiss or romance. And I had to. I had to be like, a safe space for them. Like, I wasn't. Can you just be on the record? Like, I was not a creepy.

[Craig Thomas]

Can you say the words? Can you say never?

[Josh Radnor]

And I became very friends with Neil over the years.

[Craig Thomas]

Document.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. So I had to be.

[Ashley Williams]

Just love each other. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I had to thread a very particular needle, which was. I'm not trying to get you to, like, shove your tongue down my throat or anything, but I would like you to feel free to relax into, like, a kiss that will feel like an actual.

[Craig Thomas]

You know what's funny? People are gonna. People are gonna think. Drumroll, please. Came out of this. And I just wanna clarify. It did not. Drumel, please. Was its own concept. Because that whole episode was about not quite kissing. It was not part of this. This is a totally separate.

[Josh Radnor]

What if one of the DVD extras was Victoria saying, well, why don't you kiss? And Victoria says, my lips go hard. My lips freeze up, and I'm not good at it. No. I do remember you telling me that you had a practice session with Neil.

[Craig Thomas]

That is.

[Josh Radnor]

He was like, My God, my wife, she can't tap dance or kiss. What can she do?

[Craig Thomas]

And Neil is famously good at kissing, which we've all, by the way.

[Ashley Williams]

Great kisser. Yeah. But no, I do want to commend you, Josh, for handling that so professionally. And you did. You always created an incredibly safe space.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you.

[Ashley Williams]

And I think I just was. I was nervous, you know, I was just nervous about being intimate.

[Craig Thomas]

I never noticed this for one second, just to say that I never noticed this. I sat in the edit room looking at these pics for a lot. A lot, a lot of episodes. So did Carter. Never once did we talk. This is completely news to me.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, it's literally. It was enough for me to literally really sit her down, say, can we. Can we talk about this? I'm sure that I was nervous to say something, although I. I'm sure it's hard to be nervous around you. You're so open and welcoming and, you know, I mean, look, over the years, like. Because I remember years later, you were giving me some, like, very strong advice on a relationship I was in. We don't have to go into it, but.

[Craig Thomas]

But there was.

[Josh Radnor]

There was someone I was dating who you kind of knew. And, like, I remember, I always. I will say this. When you. When there was a Victoria episode, I was always delighted to see you. Like, truly delighted. I found the set so fun when you were there and just to kind of, like, you know, we would have our stories together, right? Generally, except in Cupcake, when you were with the girls. But, like, it was always so great when nothing was going on, just to, like, crash on the couch and just, like, sit around and catch up.

[Ashley Williams]

And we would chat like it was. But, like, we would go deep. We would go deep real fast. Like, it was immediately into, like. And why is that your greatest fear? Like, after, you know, after, like an egg burrito.

[Craig Thomas]

See, now that does sound like. Zip, zip, zip. Maybe there was some truth to it.

[Josh Radnor]

But I think also we were. We both came from theater schools, and theater schools, they train you, like, go. Go deep, quick. You know, like, you've got to. You know, it's what they call instimacy, right? Like, you've got to really throw yourself in or. And we were approximating, like, a really deep, quick relationship. And I felt like, as actors, we had like, a real deep, quick, easy chemistry with each other. I always felt that.

[Ashley Williams]

Agreed.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah. I always felt really at home with you and really, like, it felt cozy. It always just felt very safe and very cozy.

[Craig Thomas]

It's not easy Ashley, to come in and do what you did, which is come into this kind of cake that had baked itself so much. I'm going with a baking metaphor. Not even on purpose, but it so fucking works. And it's hard to jump in and just be like, and now I'm the new kid in this kind of. It's like you came into the college semester halfway through the semester, kind of, and immediately, to your credit, felt like you belonged. I said in another episode, and I want to make sure I say it while you're actually here. I wish it had been a 24 episode season so we could have added two more Victoria episodes. I feel like it was a bridge. We were a 22 episode season, and later seasons, we were 24 episodes. If we'd had two more, we would have had two more fun episodes with you rather than the arc we'd sort of booked you for and written and planned out. But did you. Was that hard? Was that hard to kind of parachute in and try to feel like part of the team? Because it seemed from the outside like you were immediately in and felt like part of the team.

[Ashley Williams]

That is, first of all, such a nice compliment. It was entirely because, and I say this as a person now, and this was not true at the time, but now I've been a guest star like 2, 200 times. Like, I've literally done 200 guest star episodes where I come in for just a couple little recurrings, little, you know, a one off of whatever. Like, that's my. That's been my career, you know, So I am now. So I find it so second nature to show up on a set and immediately start learning people's names and listen very intently to, like, the culture and the subtext and kind of of. You smell it before you see it. You know what I mean?

[Josh Radnor]

Like, it's.

[Ashley Williams]

It's really like figuring it. It's really. Every. Yeah, every set is completely different. And learning each set's culture is something that has really. I mean, it's taken a long time for me to really get good at. And now, interestingly enough, it's. I'm now an episodic director. And it's what I think it's one of my assets as an episodic director is I can come on and immediately go, oh, oh, okay. So he said, that guy's in charge. We're scared of her, you know, and just immediately start picking up, picking up on all the cues. But I have to say, your set was really different than that because immediately, I mean, I remember my first day. So after Pam took us all to breakfast, then Allie took me through and gave me a tour of the entire stage. She was like, here's where all your dressing rooms. Here's the dressing rooms, here's hair and makeup here, all the different sets, you know, and she showed me where the bathrooms were, where the, where the turkey bacon was. Like, it was a very, like, she immediately, you know, made me feel so at home. And it was a priority of the whole cast to do that. And that is not normally the case. Normally a guest star, it feels like a threat to the cast, and I was not made to feel like that at all.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so true what you're saying. I haven't guest starred that much, but when I have, it's incredibly, it's like such. It's beyond first day of school vibes. Like, it is. You are, you are because not. It's not everyone's first day of school. It's just your first day of school. So it. There you're entering this ecosystem that really does have its own bylaws and its own language, and it's like you're a tourist. So I commend you for doing that 200 times. Like, it's, it's really a big. I don't love doing it, to be honest. I like being, I like having the thing where it's like, you come to my home. I don't like to come to yours.

[Craig Thomas]

You know, I don't know.

[Ashley Williams]

I think it's fun, you know, but I also, you know, I really love, like, I really love what we do. I think it is the most fun. So coming in and cracking how each set tells their story is just some of the most fun in the world because. But it all is the same.

[Josh Radnor]

Same. You know, I will, I will say this, Ashley, this is just occurring to me, but this feels very true to me, is that, you know, I, I was working especially in the first season. I was, I was nervous. I was, I, I, you know, I, I, I'm a good student. Like, I wanted to do well. Right. But it's also like, the, the role and acting generally requires a certain amount of looseness and risk and, you know, acceptance of failure and, like, it's all gonna be. And you. What I think you bring to a set, and this is why I think you've been so employable, is that I got the feeling, like, whenever you were on set, there's a little bit of a feeling underneath everything you do, which is like, can you believe we're getting away with this and that they're paying us to do this. Like, there's a feeling of, like. Like, this is insane. That this is our career. Like, this thing we just like doing as kids, we now get to do as adults, and that's the best.

[Craig Thomas]

It should feel that way.

[Josh Radnor]

And it. And it reminds me, reminded me that, like, as. As. As this guy I know who passed away, but this guy, Evia Tar Frankel, who. His kind of catchphrase was, it's supposed to be fun. Remember? It's supposed to be fun. And I feel like whenever you were on set, it was a reminder to me, like, it's supposed to be fun.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ashley Williams]

Oh, that's so cool. I love that. Well, I remember when I first. One of my first days with Pam, I was like, tell me. Cause again, like, coming from the intense multicam world, I was like, tell me about the. These showrunners. Like, are they safe? Like, are they nice? What's going on with them?

[Craig Thomas]

They were talking about my shirt and casting. Do I have something to be worried about?

[Ashley Williams]

Yeah, well, I was. I was just like, what do I have to be aware of? And Pam said, they just can't believe there's craft service. And that was such a great, like, line about you guys that really set the tone, I think, for everybody. But, yeah, I agree, Josh, like, getting any acting job, I feel like I'm like, I cannot believe we pulled this off. Like, how long before they come in and say, get the heck out of here, you crazy person. Who do you think you are? You know? But every day we. We get away with another day on set. I'm like, I can't believe they're not coming in and yelling at us and saying that we're, you know, ahead of our skis.

[Craig Thomas]

God, that is the best. That is the best description of what it means to stay curious and creative. That is what it is. How do we get to do this? How are we this lucky? And at its best, that's what art feels like. And you really do kind of exude that, Ashley. Like, even, like when you come and you sing with us, Ashley comes and she sings for these fundraiser. That's really important to my world and my family. It's sort of for my son. And she comes and sings and performs, and it just feels that way. Just you getting up and singing a song with us. It feels that way. Like, it's. I love. I love that. That's so precious.

[Ashley Williams]

When you first said, you know, Bowery Ballroom, what was it? Years ago, I was like, I need to I am not a singer, Craig. Like I don't or a tap dancer.

[Josh Radnor]

Or much of a kisser.

[Craig Thomas]

To anyone but Neil. Asterisk to anyone but Neil kisses the bejesus out of Neil.

[Ashley Williams]

But I just remember being like, I'm not gonna turn down the opportunity as a quintessentially non singer. Like people say, oh, do you sing? And I say I sing enthusiastically but not well. And so getting to get up on stage at the Belly Valerie Ballroom and being as untalented as a singer as I am is just too funny to me. Like it's too funny.

[Craig Thomas]

You are a living yes and you are a living breathing yes and aw, thanks.

[G]

Hey everyone, we had so much great Ashley Williams that we've actually made this one a two parter. So come on back in about three days to hear part two of how we met Ashley Williams.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's roll the credits.

[Louis]

I am guilty, Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[G]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our digital content producer AKA Gen Z Master is EM Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show.

[Josh Radnor]

Want some merch?

[G]

Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Order Craig Thomas debut [e-mail] novel and you could subscribe to My Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will, in fact dance the real.

[Louis]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with you, you or just New York City?