How We Met NPH [with Neil Patrick Harris] | S2E20 "Showdown"

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How We Met NPH [with Neil Patrick Harris]

How We Made Your Mother
Date: March 16, 2026
Main Episode: S2E20 "Showdown"

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Overview

In this extra-special episode of How We Made Your Mother, hosts Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby) and series co-creator Craig Thomas are joined by the legendary Neil Patrick Harris (Barney Stinson). The trio, along with occasional contributions from producer Alec Lev and writer Phil Lord, revisit the making, legacy, and nuanced performance behind Barney, focusing especially on the iconic episode “Showdown,” where Barney believes Bob Barker is his father. Through personal anecdotes, behind-the-scenes insights, and warm ribbing, they explore what makes Barney’s character so durable—and why How I Met Your Mother continues to thrive in the pop culture zeitgeist.

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Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. The Enduring Legacy of HIMYM

• HIMYM’s Cultural Longevity:
  • NPH remarks on how the show remains “constantly” in his life, with new fans discovering it as it cycles through different streaming platforms. Even his 14-year-old twins’ friends are into it.

    “People keep coming back to Barney and I’m so appreciative of it.” – Neil Patrick Harris [06:40]

  • The show’s resonance feels special because, unlike many contemporaries, it’s “still in the culture. People still reference it, talk about it, discover it anew.” – Josh Radnor [05:45]
• Generational Viewing:
  • NPH discusses the unique challenges and joys of his children being recognized as “the kids of Barney Stinson,” highlighting both the “complicated legacy” and its positives.

    “I want Harper and Gideon to be identified independently...They have their own triggers and issues with potentially only being recognized as the child of Barney Stinson.” – NPH [07:21]

2. Crafting Barney: Comedy, Heart & Physicality

• Barney’s Origins & Double Life:
  • NPH describes Barney’s construction as both the “fifth wheel life of the party” and someone with underlying vulnerability.

    “He was intended to be kind of the fifth wheel life of the party guy that you want to buy a drink and go on some crazy ass adventure. But underneath, he’s just like a scared kid who didn’t have a male role model.” – NPH [07:48], Josh Radnor [15:48]

  • The balance between bravado and pathos is repeatedly praised by the hosts and writers.
• Physical Comedy & Influences:
  • NPH credits his physical comedic inspirations, including Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Charlie Chaplin, and especially Cirque du Soleil’s David Shiner.

    “David Shiner’s physical comedy was so next level...I was, from that point forward, obsessed.” – NPH [25:56]

  • Josh and Phil highlight NPH's genius for turning small writer cues (“Barney sneezes the biggest sneeze he’s ever sneezed”) into iconic moments.

    “We’re fanning out on you a bunch...how the fuck did Neil do that physical comedy thing?...We so love your physical comedy.” – Phil Lord [10:07, 23:45]

  • NPH discusses the value of expressing character through body language, citing examples like the “marathon episode” where he physically sells impossible scenarios [22:56].
• Making the Crew Laugh:
  • NPH describes trying to make the editor Sue laugh with “little weird things” off-camera, adding a playful element to the work [12:30].
• Meta Awareness:
  • The hosts debate if Barney is the only character self-aware that he's “in a sitcom,” noting his love for catchphrases, audience approval, and pushing the fourth wall.

    “It almost seems like in certain moments when you’re playing Barney, it’s like Barney’s the only one of these characters who knows he’s in a sitcom.” – Phil Lord [31:31]

3. Behind-the-Scenes: HIMYM’s Unique Structure & Fan Connection

• The Show’s Experimental Freedom:
  • NPH and hosts explain how the absence of live studio audience allowed for more experimentation, retakes, and subtler moments (unlike other sitcoms).

    “We were doing a multi-camera show with no audience, as if there was an audience. And we were able to cut and reset and restart.” – NPH [10:31]

• Evolution & Growth:
  • Both actors and writers attribute the show’s complexity to the slower ascent in popularity—not being a “mega-hit” off the bat gave them creative space to take risks.

    “If the show had been a hit right out of the gate...it might have developed into a less interesting show.” – Josh Radnor [31:00]

• Writing & Memory:
  • NPH highlights how he interpreted Barney not as reality, but as “Ted’s memory” of events—an excuse for heightened, cartoonish behavior.

    “I didn’t feel ever like I needed to be doing what really happened, but I’m doing what Ted was telling his kids how it happened.” – NPH [34:01]

4. “Showdown” and the Price Is Right Episode

• Filming the Iconic “Showdown”:
  • The writers and NPH reminisce about the surreal experience shooting on the Price Is Right set with Bob Barker. This felt “operatic” and nerve-wracking for NPH, a lifelong Barker/game show fan.

    “It was like an opera. That is like an unbelievable kind of...My wife Jordana was laughing so hard. We were both just dying watching it.” – Josh Radnor [41:16]

  • NPH recollects living out a childhood dream. “Couldn’t believe that it was happening. Looked at the Plinko...” [41:25]
  • The episode’s emotional resonance: Barney’s transparent desire for a dad and the pain of realizing fantasies about one’s parentage—culminating in the baseball-throw flashback.

    “The saddest moment for me so far...is the flashback when little Barney says, ‘Want to play catch?’ [44:26] “That may be the saddest scene ever shot in the history of cinema.” – Phil Lord [44:38]

  • NPH admits he played the Price Is Right finale with genuine, not winking, conviction:

    “I played that end scene for real...I didn’t play that last scene with the vulnerability of Barney knowing the truth. I was playing it as if he really sort of thought, ‘If I tell him he’s my dad, it would hurt his life.’” – NPH [47:07]

5. The Layers of Barney: Friendship, Loyalty, and Heart

• Barney as Chosen Family:
  • The hosts and NPH discuss Barney’s surprising loyalty and sweetness—how under the wild exterior is deep devotion to his friends, especially in moments like flying to San Francisco to bring Lily back.

    “Barney flies to San Francisco to talk sense into Lily to get her to come back to Marshall...there’s a kind of loyalty to his friends that is very sweet.” – Josh Radnor [50:20]

  • “Barney’s stories are often not about chasing women...They’re often about friendship.” – Phil Lord [50:30]
• Development Through Writing:
  • Phil Lord explains how, sometimes, pathos was retroactively applied:

    “There’s something about Barney and the performance that made the writers want to peel back the layers...It was just like this onion, like, what’s underneath this, what makes him this way?” [53:11]

  • NPH, as an actor, never visited the writer’s room for input:

    “I never really felt welcome...There was a self-consciousness. So I just never went.” – NPH [52:09]

• Staying True to Character:
  • NPH strongly supports the series finale and Barney’s ultimately real, slow evolution.

    “I’m a staunch supporter of the ending...I’m a big proponent...Barney, throughout the entire run, has always been that guy. He’s not gonna change. It would be short-sighted to say he winds up happily married.” – NPH [48:19]

6. Memorable/Meta Moments & Favorite Scenes

• Notable Comic Beats:
  • Barney’s rapid emotional shifts (“the goat voice” at Marshall and Lily’s wedding), deadpan delivery, and capacity for physical comedy are repeatedly cited and celebrated by the group.

  • “The swiftness with which you’re able to make some of these turns...it almost strikes me as, like, slaloming down a hill and, like, clearing a really hard flag...” – Josh Radnor [57:10]

• Behind-the-Scenes Laughs:
  • NPH rarely “broke” on set, but Jason Segel occasionally set him off, especially during legendary scenes (e.g., with parachute pants) [56:53].

7. The Uncertainty Behind the Scenes

• Precarious Early Days:
  • The hosts recall constant fear of cancellation in early seasons and how Netflix’s arrival and later syndication changed everything.

    “We were not secure at all in season two. We did not know—two, three, four, maybe five is when we exhaled.” – Phil Lord [58:39]

  • “Once we got a fourth season, then we were in syndication...That was the big turning point.” – NPH [59:29]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On HIMYM’s continued resonance:

  “People keep coming back to Barney and I’m so appreciative of it. I’m so grateful for the show...” – Neil Patrick Harris [07:48]

• On the show’s meta/animated style:

  “They said, we’re gonna make Barney a cartoon character...And you knew you were about to take Ted, but you were about to take the episode and, like, make it insane.” – Josh Radnor [13:41]

• Physical comedy inspiration:

  “From that point forward, obsessed with David Shiner and Cirque du Soleil.” – NPH [25:56]
  “I really value how one’s physicality can inform a scene.” – NPH [27:05]

• Barney’s vulnerability:

  “I don’t think I processed it in those ways, mainly because I think I’m a fairly, like, vulnerable human.” – NPH [36:33]

• On Bob Barker episode:

  “You had to act with Bob Barker, saying things like, are you saying you’re proud of me? And be near tears.” – Phil Lord [42:27]
  “I played that end scene for real...I was playing it as if he really sort of thought if I tell him he’s my dad, it would hurt his life.” – NPH [47:07]

• On friendship and loyalty:

  “Barney flies to San Francisco to talk sense into Lily...There are these moments—nothing means more to him than his friends.” – Josh Radnor [50:20]

• Supporting the show’s ending:

  “I’m a staunch supporter of the ending of the whole show...Barney has always been that guy. He’s not gonna change.” – NPH [48:19]

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Important Timestamps

• [05:05] – Introduction of Neil Patrick Harris as guest
• [06:40] – Barney’s and HIMYM’s ongoing cultural impact
• [10:07] – Praise for NPH’s physical comedy abilities
• [13:41] – “Barney as cartoon character” discussion
• [15:33] – “Showdown” episode focus and Barney’s pathos
• [23:30] – Marathon episode and physical comedy anecdote
• [25:56] – NPH shares his inspirations for physical comedy
• [31:31] – Is Barney the only self-aware sitcom character?
• [41:16] – The Price is Right episode, Bob Barker, and NPH's childhood fandom
• [44:26] – Saddest/funniest scene: little Barney throws baseball at TV
• [47:07] – Playing the truth of the Bob Barker scene
• [48:19] – NPH’s support for the series finale
• [50:20] – Chosen family and Barney’s acts of loyalty
• [52:09] – NPH reflects on never visiting the writers’ room
• [58:39] – Behind-the-scenes fear of cancellation, and the show’s delayed success

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Tone & Dynamic

The episode is warm, deeply nostalgic, playful, and occasionally irreverent, full of affection and mutual admiration. Banter flows between sincere, almost analytical reflection on acting, writing, and storytelling, and the inside-joke-laden camaraderie of longtime collaborators. Underneath, there’s a gratitude for the show’s impact on their own lives and audiences alike.

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Final Thoughts

For fans of How I Met Your Mother, this episode offers a treasure-trove of personal insights into how a legendary sitcom character—and the show itself—came to life. Neil Patrick Harris’s self-deprecating humor, reverence for the craft, and love for the team shine throughout, as do the hosts’ admiration for his work and the enduring bonds of the cast and creative team.

Transcript

[Josh Radnor]

So I have to admit something. Even though I've spent a lot of time on tv, I'm not that great at watching tv. I get restless. I get bored. If it doesn't hook me in the first 12 minutes, I'm out. And my wife and I sometimes struggle for shows we can watch together. But every once in a while, we find a show that the two of us love equally. And it's so much fun to watch it together. We had this experience with season one of Jury Duty on Amazon Prime. It was this brilliant, hilarious, groundbreaking social experiment that celebrated goodness in the most unexpected way. So when I heard that it was finally coming back after three years, I had I just had one question. How were they going to top that? Turns out by going bigger. Set in a courtroom in the first installment and a company retreat in the second, Jury Duty presents Company Retreat takes the experiment out of the courthouse and into a company retreat for Rock and Grandma's Hot Sauce, a beloved family business with a lot riding on this final retreat before the CEO retires. At the center is Anthony, a real temp who thinks he's just there for work, except he doesn't know the entire thing is staged. It's workplace comedy meets hidden camera. Unpredictable, innovative, heartfelt, and so, so funny. If you've ever sat through an awkward icebreaker with co workers, you're going to feel seen. And in the most delightful twist, Rock and Grandma's Hot Sauce. The actual hot sauce will actually be available on Amazon for flavors sold individually or as a collectible four pack streaming on Prime Video March 20th.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Craig Thomas]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per intro rate. First 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] hey everybody, it's Craig Thomas.

[Phil Lord]

I wrote a book and I want you to know about it. But instead of watching me or listening to me be self promotional in a blatant and uncomfortable way, I was delighted by this book.

[Josh Radnor]

It is super page turny. It is like breathlessly and hilariously plotted. The interiority was just as rich and as fun as the plot twists. His many years of crafting great narratives on television came to bear on this. Your gifts as a novelist are just abundant. I was so delighted by it. It's incredibly vivid. You're really seeing it as you read it. Even if you were my mortal enemy, I would be forced to. I love you dearly. You're one of my best friends. But I would be forced to concede that you had written a great book.

[Phil Lord]

That is amazing. I wish that could be a blurb on the book. Even if Frank Thomas was my mortal

[Josh Radnor]

enemy, you will not be disappointed if you pick up this book or listen to this. So check it out.

[Phil Lord]

And speaking of listening to this book, there is a mini How I Met yout Mother reunion in the audiobook of that's Not How It Happened. Listen to Cobie Smulders.

[Josh Radnor]

And so began the surreal, unholy process of my husband adapting my book, my

[Craig Thomas]

life, into a screenplay.

[Phil Lord]

Here is another voice you may recognize. Josh Ratner.

[Josh Radnor]

Right now, I was in that pocket. And as a writer, that's about as close to heaven as it gets.

[Phil Lord]

Okay, self promotion over now to this week's episode. It's a big one. Ladies and gentlemen, How We Met Neil Patrick Harris.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City When I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Hello and welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother. I'm Josh Ratner, your co host. My other co host. I'm staring at his handsome face now. His name's Craig Thomas. Hi, Craig.

[Phil Lord]

Why, I'm blushing, sir. Thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

Do I not call you handsome enough? I feel like it's implied. I'm always feeling it. We made a TV show together years ago. It started, what, 20, 19 years ago. It was called How I Met yout mother. We did 208 episodes. It ran from 2005 to 2014. We haven't seen it years. We're going back through every single episode with our older, wiser eyes. We're very proud of what we made for the most part. And yeah, we're having a great time. And, you know, we always say, special episode. This is a special episode.

[Alec Lev]

This is just such a special extra,

[Josh Radnor]

extra, extra, special episode because we have a man here who it's just impossible to imagine the world of How I Met yout Mother without. He is the person who breathed life into the great iconic Barney Stinson. And his name is Neil Patrick Harris. And he's with us today. Hey, Neil.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Please sit down. Please, everyone, sit.

[Josh Radnor]

What's up, man?

[Phil Lord]

Thank you for being here.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so good to see you.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

It's nice to see your smiling faces. Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh my God.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Alec as well.

[Phil Lord]

Thank you for being here, buddy.

[Josh Radnor]

What have you been doing since 2014? How have you been?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I've been good. Hooking.

[Josh Radnor]

I saw you saw your, you won a Tony. I saw that. I remember you jumped on my seat in the audience and you kissed me. I believe on the mouth for sure. I think I got glitter in my, on my face. Well, we had already. We'll talk about that. We had already broken that. And so you're living in New York City and I. Let me, let me just start with this. We talk about how the tale of this show. Like there were, there were shows that were so popular when we were on the air that people just do not talk about anymore. But for some reason, How I Met yout Mother is still very much in the zeitgeist. It's still in the culture. People still reference it, talk about it, discover it a new. So I'm just curious, like in your kind of day to day life, you probably, you get recognized for a lot of things. But like, what's your experience of meeting How I Met yout Mother fans and how has the show kind of changed in your perception of it as, as you've gotten more time away from it?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Wow, what an interesting question. It's been constant. I mean really truly constant because when we did our final season, the show was, was on more times per day than ever. So it was on three or four times a day in America. And then when Netflix picked it up, it had another resurgence and then it went somewhere else. Then Netflix picked it up again, it had another resurgence. Now, you know, I have, my husband and I have twin 14 year old children and they, their friends are watching it now.

[Josh Radnor]

Are they watching it? Have Harper and Gideon watched it?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, for sure. So.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh my God.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

So that's interesting because now that's a whole other level of like celebrity dynamic, but in a strange direction because, you know, I want Harper and Gideon to be identified independently and they have their own, you know, triggers and issues with potentially only being recognized as the, the child of Barney Stinson.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a complicated legacy.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, for sure. Good and bad. And it's something that they'll have to process. But I've had some really great like marker chapters professionally in my life since then that have been super great and recognizable and fulfilling as well. But boy, yeah, people keep coming back to Barney and I'm so appreciative of it. And I'm so grateful for the show because especially having played Barney, he was intended to be kind of the fifth wheel life of the party guy that you want to buy a drink and buy the next round and go on some crazy ass adventure. Right. That was how he was constructed, it seems. And so when I meet people who love the show, they're very, they're very positive and they're very enthusiastic and they have specifics and they tell me about the playbook and how many that they've tried and that they met their girl doing the Naked man and that they've been to the Liberty Bell. Like, you know, it's. And a lot of people say that they have watched the show eight times. Yeah. All the way through.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you ever have the experience that they're bringing up something that you're like, I don't remember that. Like, something so specific, like they just watched it last night and you're like, I barely remember what you're talking about for sure.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

And especially when someone comes up and they were on the show in an episode and had like four or five lines, you know, and you had a

[Josh Radnor]

really awkward thing with Joe Manganiello. You're like, I don't know this guy.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I never seen you before in my life. But wow, look at your eyes.

[Josh Radnor]

And he takes his shirt off and you're like, oh, I remember this.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Oh, yeah, that guy. So, no, it's just been, it's just been a delight. It, it, it weirdly, I'm 52 years old, you know, and, and people still consider me, will treat me as if I'm like, vibrant. Let's go have a great time and do funnies together. Yeah, and that's fun. Like, it's, it's, it's fun to not be like the dusty older sage, but instead to still be like, the one that can be devilish. It was a devilish part. And I'm so grateful. Craig, to you and Carter. Mostly to you. Just because Carter's not here right now.

[Phil Lord]

The feeling is very mutual. Neil. I don't want to. I'm struggling with how much or a little to embarrass you during this. But like, each, every single episode we've done, and we're at the end of season two almost now, every week we're saying, like, how the fuck did Neil do that physical comedy thing? Or how did you find that moment? How does he do that? Turn on a dime the way he does? We're fanning out on you a bunch, really. Watching our own show that we all made together. So I just wanted to say that.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Thank you, man. It was, it was one of those rare gifts that I'm sure you have talked about ad nauseam, where it was such a hybrid show at a time when that really didn't exist. And so we were doing a multi camera show with no audience, as if there was an audience. And we were able to cut and reset and restart. And we were helmed by Pam Freeman, who was such like a heartbeat, truthful center for everyone in their own ways always. And that North Star, I think, allowed everyone the freedom to try shit and fail. And the stuff that, I mean, I just felt like it was this back and forth between team writers room and team actor is they would sort of challenge us with like what. Let's see if they. If this would be successful. And what it came to, the Barney stuff because, you know, Josh was so exquisite at the. The pathos part and at the, at making a laugh. Tracked 22 minutes feel so sort of cinematic and real that then I was sort of gifted all of like the craziness. And I was so fun to do because if it was a real sitcom with a multi camera, live studio audience, it's a very different experience. You rehearse all week and then it's show night and you really only have a couple cracks at it. You do it and then you huddle up. And the audience laughed at it, but they didn't laugh like you thought. So you rewrite a bunch of stuff and then the guy is upstairs telling them, I'll give you chocolates if you laugh louder. And so then the second time you do it, it's like really big responses for everything and they're wanting to hear themselves when they go home later. And so that's just a different vibe. We were able to do things, you know, five or six times and just

[Phil Lord]

trust what we felt trusted. Did we think it was good? Did our crew think it was good? Did Pam think it was right? It was. We were the arbiters.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

And trying to make the crew laugh was. Was Paramount. My favorite person to try and make laugh was sue, our editor, because I know that she was the one pouring over all the stuff. So I was, I was, I was constantly when we were filming trying to do little weird things that only she would acknowledge.

[Phil Lord]

She had a whole relationship with you in the editing. He was winking at me.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, I feel not for any other reason than I just could only imagine. It's boring to be seeing, like, which take do I do of these same Similar five takes or something. So I was just a runner for her.

[Phil Lord]

That was, like, the playful spirit that you brought to it. You kind of didn't go out of character in between takes. And sue would watch, like, not even takes, just go like, what the fuck's Neil doing over here? I think he's doing this just for me. But I think some of that energy makes it like, that is the energy. That was the energy of the weird little mad scientist laboratory of making the show together.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

It's really cool when you guys would write something like, barney sneezes, the biggest sneeze that he's ever sneezed in his life. That's all you'd say.

[Phil Lord]

I was like, oh, I love this game. Yeah. Challenge accepted. I mean, literal challenge accepted.

[Josh Radnor]

Neil. I remember when we watched episode three, Sweet Taste of Liberty, which was written by Miller and Lord, and Craig said that they said to him, remind me, Craig. They said, this is where Barney's like an animated character.

[Phil Lord]

They said, we're gonna make Barney a cartoon character in. And you know what, Barney? That wouldn't be every episode, but to do it in that one, the third episode of the entire series, to say, this is a Barney cartoon adventure. Trust us, we're Chris and Phil. We will make this fantastic. And that was so good so early. They called that shot. They really brought that up.

[Josh Radnor]

I remember there was a moment where I was standing on the street and you pull up, I think in a limo or a. No, you pull up in a taxi, and you were just like, get in. You know, like, trying to. You're demanding that I get in. And there was a look in your eye that was like, new. That I was like, oh, Neil's dropped in, like, to another level of this character. Yeah. Like, I just remember, like, you. You knew you were. You were about to take Ted, but you were about to take the episode and, like, make it insane. And I just. That was the one. We are international businessmen on a business trip.

[Phil Lord]

Remember that when we get.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Which. Which kind of like, there's certain episodes we've noticed are like. Are like Hope and Crosby road movies. Like old timey, you know, Walter Matthau, Jack Lemmon, kind of like just old timey buddy comedy movies. But I just want to also shout out that even if you conceived of yourself as like, fifth guy, party guy, you know, one thing that I really love that because we got so long to do it, that Craig and Carter did, they gave me some, like, insane animated shit to do, but they also gave you some, like, real heart forward Stuff that was just as moving as any other characters. You know, as you get deeper in, like, with your father issues with. We just look at the episode. Oh, no, is this. Oh, yeah, Showdown in theory.

[Phil Lord]

We're talking about Showdown at some point. We'll name check it. In this conversation, the end of Showdown,

[Josh Radnor]

when you reveal how you actually. How Barney actually lost his virginity, but then he prefers the fantasy of, like, that it was Dirty Dancing or whatever.

[Phil Lord]

Right, right, right. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

There's something so sad and moving but extra hilarious about, like, the tragedy at the heart of this man. And we talk about, you know, Shannon and the Peace Corps and how Barney became Barney, but underneath it, he's just like a scared kid who didn't have a male role model in his life who's just, like, trying to piece together this, like, way to be a man in a way that's just kind of, like, insane. But he also, like, he ultimately has a good heart. And that's what we keep seeing on this rewatch. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is an all in one website platform. You can build your site, accept payments, market your brand, and so much more. All with Squarespace.

[Phil Lord]

Want to know a true story, Josh?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, I only want. I only want true stories.

[Phil Lord]

You know what? What hit. Massively successful and beloved podcasts uses Squarespace for their website.

[Josh Radnor]

Good hang with Amy Poehler.

[Phil Lord]

That's right. And also Josh Smartless. But also, let's just go. Let's name 20 how we made your mother uses Squarespace. Yeah, use the Squarespace for our website, which is a really, really, really genuinely important tool for this show, because our website, how we made your mother.com plug is our way of connecting with the fans. Fans can send us their voice, their voice memos of what the show means to them. They send us these beautiful letters. We always incorporate both audio and, like, written letters that we then Josh or I will read. It's a huge part of every episode.

[Josh Radnor]

And that's all through our Squarespace website, designed by our producer, Alec Lev. Tell us a little about all that.

[Alec Lev]

Yes, that's right. If you go to how we madeyourmother.com, a great part of the site is if you click on the contact link. Well, as at the top, it'll take you to a page where fans can send in some voice memos. They can also send in letters. And this was the. This was amazing. I wanted to collect people's letters. But I have no idea how to do that through a website. So Squarespace allows you to build these incredible forms where they'll collect your, your, your information, your name and everything. And then people could just write their letters right into that. And those letters get sent automatically to a spreadsheet that we get to go through and pick the best ones out. All in truly just a matter of minutes. All on Squarespace.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah. And you don't know what the hell you're doing and yet you set it up and it looks great and it works and it's beautiful. So that is much more credit to Squarespace than to you.

[Josh Radnor]

I would say he can follow direction.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're good at other things, but this you didn't have to be good at because Squarespace makes it that easy.

[Josh Radnor]

But we have a very pro website up how we made your mother.com designed by Alec through Squarespace. Also, Squarespace includes tools to help people find you online, makes it easier to register and manage your domain, and gives you options to share videos, accept donations or sell content if that's part of what you do.

[Phil Lord]

So here's what you do. Go to squarespace.com your mother all one word for a free trial and use code your mother all one word sorry if that sounds like an insult. To save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I've always felt that he was kind of broken. And a lot of the show was, as the seasons went on, was revealing elements of his. You know, he never talked about his job, he never spoke. And as we're running gags of like, please. And so you never really knew much about him. And that seemed like a good place to hide sincerity and pathos. And I keep in mind, up until How I Met your mother, I hadn't done. I mean, I did a wacky sitcom with Tony Shalhoub on NBC a few years before How I Met yout Mother. And it was one season and I was like the David Hyde Piercy, kind of afraid of germs and an uptight guy. And so that was fun, but sort of very singular. But I had never really done a lot of the big comedy stuff. So I had mostly done, like, Doogie Howser was super sincere, done a lot of television movies that had been. I was grounded in sincerity in my life.

[Josh Radnor]

I felt like you had to do before Barney. You did a lot of what I had to do on How I Met yout Mother, which is kind of be the virtuous center of a show. And I felt there was something about, like, you recognize the opportunity to be unleashed, for sure, to be like, oh, my God. There was something about Barney, both the fact that he wore a lot of armor like you're describing, like, he had a lot of armor up. The suit was like an armor for him. But he also the way he was constructed and the way you played him. And, you know, I think we developed these characters with the writers. It was a real, like, you know, team effort. But the way you gave him permission to be as insane as a human could possibly be and still actually be recognizable as a human, I'm just very impressed with it on this rewatch. I appreciated it on set, but, like, the more I watch it, and especially this is something we talk about A lot. Your physical comedy on the show is just unbelievable to watch. Like, I remember. Remember the marathon episode where he's like, I can just. You don't train for a marathon. You just run it. Right. And then his legs give out on the subway. The shot that they showed was above the window. Cause it's, like, really funny. You try to get up. But I was watching. I was on set in the scene, and I'm watching through the door. So I actually saw your legs not work in a way that I was like, how did he do that? Like, I didn't even understand, literally, physically.

[Phil Lord]

So believed you were about to stand up.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes. The top half of your body was doing one thing, and the bottom was doing something completely different.

[Phil Lord]

It got us thinking, Neil, that. Yeah, Josh, I think we're both wanting to ask this question right? About. We're just wondering, like, we.

[Josh Radnor]

We. We so love your physical comedy. We were just wondering, like, did you grow up idolizing any, like, physical comedians? Like, were you a Buster Keaton guy?

[Phil Lord]

Were you, like, asked you this? And I've always.

[Josh Radnor]

We're really curious.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

A massive physical comedy fan. Buster Keaton was a huge inspiration. Harold Lloyd, Charlie Chaplin. But then it really pivoted when I went and saw the. The second ever version of Cirque du Soleil's traveling show in Santa Monica. It was at the Santa Monica Pier, and it was called Nouvelle Experience, the New Experience. And. And it was the first time I had no. Well, it was the second time I'd seen Cirque, because I'd seen their first show randomly there at that same spot. And I'd never seen a circus with no animals. And it was surrounded by this central figure who was a clown. And the clown was a performer named David Shiner. And David Shiner's a very well known clown. And one of his main things that he did was he played this director, and he wouldn't talk as the clown. He would. He would. His. His clown spirit was very dismissive and annoyed at things. So there was a lot of, like, annoyance with things. And so. And he would whistle a lot. So he'd whistle and he would say, I'm gonna do, like. He would mime that I'm gonna make a movie, and I need three people in the audience. And he had a big door frame, was his big center prop. And he would say, I. And he would mime, I need a swa. A studly guy that's gonna come up. And he would pick someone in the audience. Then he would pick a woman from the audience. And then he. A scene together. They'd walk up and they'd kiss. And then there was a third guy who was like the nerdy guy. And his. David Shiner's physical comedy was so next level. And I had never in my life been in a. Like it was a circus arena, so filled with people literally everywhere. And we were all laughing so hard for so long at his physical prowess, at his ability to transform his body from suave to debonair to nerdy to angry. And he was a master at it. And I was just from that point forward obsessed with David Shiner and Cirque du Soleil. And it was a profound.

[Josh Radnor]

Didn't he do stuff with Bill Irwin? Weren't they like.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, David Shiner and Bill Irwin. They did. And you can track those down probably on what Broadway World or Broadway. There's like a channel that you can watch. It was called Fool Things. No, Fool Things.

[Alec Lev]

Full Moon. One of my favorite things I've ever seen.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, Full moon.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, Full Moon. That's right.

[Alec Lev]

They also did Old Hats later on, which was also old hats. Fantastic.

[Phil Lord]

How old are you in this story, Neil? How old were you when you got. When this hit you? Were you a kid in that story or you had. 12 years old?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

11. 12 years old. And I just. And then I. And then I went down a Bill Irwin loop because he's. He did the very famous mime clown bit inside the trunk where he would open up a wardrobe trunk and he would go down the steps and turn and go down the steps and he would. Then it would become an elevator and like we've all seen versions of it and his is undeniably like one of the best.

[Josh Radnor]

Were you already into magic at this point?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I was into magic. I was a self taught juggler. And so I just really. I really value how one's physicality can inform a scene. And so when you get the. Because words are super important. A paramount and right. And then inflection and what you do with those words is super important. But how you're standing, where you're looking like if you watch a close up of amazing performers and when they're talking a single tear like drips out of their eye and their face doesn't move like that is physical performing in its own right. They know which something. There's actors that are like, you want a tear which eye? And like that is impressive to me. Right. Because I think it's part of the. This skill set. And I was always with How I Met yout Mother, loving the sandbox that we were in because we were a situation comedy, you know? And so I was.

[Phil Lord]

It's so interactive. Because what we see you doing as writers, you were giving the writers that. That sign, like, give me stuff. Challenge me. Stump me. Stump the band. I dare. Throw me something. I dare you to find something I can't do. And we fucking couldn't.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I didn't think of it in that way. I didn't. I didn't think of it in, like, of a competition sort of vibe.

[Josh Radnor]

What's the episode where Neil just has, like, different ways he's killing himself with miming.

[Phil Lord]

Like, he does the.

[Josh Radnor]

What's the thing where you cut out your.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And then the blood coming out. You get the blood coming out of your neck.

[Phil Lord]

But even that one Neil, where we show who Barney was before he became Barney.

[Josh Radnor]

Right?

[Phil Lord]

The episode where he becomes Barney. Like the Darth Vader. That episode when we meet you as hippie Barney, who's head over heels in love with Shannon. Your body, the way you walk. The way you walk is hippie Barney with the long hair. Yeah, the hair is doing the walking. The wig is leading the walk.

[Josh Radnor]

Weren't we wondering, did you have the flu when you were filming that or something? Like, wasn't it something crazy?

[Phil Lord]

You were dead sick that week, and you fucking crushed it. Anyway, it was like our biggest Barney episode to date. Cause you had so much to do in that episode. And you got the flu the second that production week began, I think. And you were like, guys, I'm sorry. I'm not gonna be that great this week. And then you were so fucking good, it was almost annoying. It's like, how is he this good when he's. When he's.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

But I kind of remember that because it was all of the granola.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah, Barney, you were the hippie guy, and you had so much.

[Josh Radnor]

When I was doing that stuff, when you said Nicaragua.

[Phil Lord]

But just your physicality changes so much. And you did, like, you're. Then it's. We're seeing you bridge between hippie Barney becoming Barney. Like, we see that walk almost like Kaiser Soze, like, becoming Barney walking down the street. Every part of that is a masterclass in physical comedy. So it's just genius.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Oh, that's so sweet. It's so nice to hear you guys say that. Not that I was seeking that acknowledgement at all, but it's like, I wasn't

[Josh Radnor]

go by any time if you were feeling low and want compliments.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I wasn't doing. Felt a little also like Saturday Night Live. What we Were doing because it was every week, new stuff. And so I didn't really ever process it, like, how can I win this? Or how can I. You think you can write something that I can't do? Then I'll show you. I was just loving the. The softball lobs. Right.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

And so I. And I. And I also appreciated for. And I think we all did the. The notion that we were hopeful that this would be watched more than once.

[Phil Lord]

Yes.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

And for most of its first four seasons, we were very unsure whether that was going to happen. And so. And yet we still, like, with these things. I would still. Yes. I was doing it for sue, the editor, so that she'd laugh. But I also thought if anyone wants to watch the repeat of it, it'd be fun for them to notice something new and different instead of just like a freight train doing a singular thing.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

We talked a lot in the first season, especially Neil, about how if the show had been a hit right out of the gate and there were so many eyeballs on us, it might have been a less interesting show. It might have developed into a less interesting show because we were kind of like. Like, good enough in the demo that we stayed on the air, but we weren't being noted to death. We weren't. No one was paying that much attention to us. So we got to develop this really cool style. So by the time people started watching us, we had already really found our voice. The ensemble was, like, so gelled, like, we were in the pocket, you know?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

That's very, very true.

[Phil Lord]

We talk sometimes, Neil, about how it almost seems like in certain moments when you're playing Barney, it's like Barney's the only one of these characters who knows he's in a sitcom. I think Josh made that observation.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You give that great speech about where there's a drunk woman with D. We will be there. Remember that. Like, we will be there. But you walk in sometime at the beginning of season two, and you walk in and you turn to the fourth wall, and I said, neil is. He's holding for applause. He's holding for applause. He thinks he's gonna get entrance applause, which, if we had been in front of an audience, you would have. But it led me to this very meta question where I said, was Barney the only character who was aware he was in a sitcom? Like, everyone else thinks they're living life. Barney, on some level, knew he was in a weird reality.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

So I never really acknowledged. I never really thought of it as if Varney is in a meta way, knows he's talking to the TV audience at home. But from the pilot, it was clear that he loved his own catchphrases, needed to have his own catchphrases. And even in the Philly episode, I think that's when he does the lactose intolerance long line version of Legend. Wait for. And so he loved these. And there were lots of times when Barney would slowly, like he would be writing normal. You'd write normal jokes, but then you'd write a big paragraph of a thing that he would say. And so it was. I think Barney did always feel like he was in this story. He was delusional. And the delusion was, wait, wait, no matter what's happening in the world right now, this is how it's going to be narrated and this is going to. And so I think I would stand up and play to this invisible fourth wal, which. Which certainly would seem like it was the. The audience.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, he. I think I agree with what you're saying so much because he's obsessed with the idea of audience and how things appear. Like, how his friend, like this night, that is legendary. And people will talk about this for ages. He's very much like, we are the main characters and we're going to create the best. And even, you know, my peeps need my tweets. The, the stuff about his blog, like, he, he was very into, like, image management and also having it look a certain way.

[Phil Lord]

He knows it's gonna be a story, so he's going to be the star of the story. He's going to make the story happen,

[Josh Radnor]

or at least the motor for the weirdest parts of the story.

[Phil Lord]

He's talking to the future versions of themselves that are gonna. That's the fourth wall is like the future.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

And I felt a little bit of. I felt a little bit of freedom as well, because the structure of the show was Ted telling not the true story, but his remembrance of the story. And so I didn't feel ever like I needed to be doing what really happened, but I'm doing what Ted was telling his kids how it happened. So I did feel that I had agency to be bigger and to say things as if he was like the life of the party, not in a real world. Because Ted was explaining it right.

[Phil Lord]

It's right. It's not reality. It's memory. And this is the. How Barney occupies future Ted's memory. It gets exaggerated. Yeah, that's really cool to hear.

[Josh Radnor]

We do have a central kind of question about this show. Like, is what we're seeing on the TV show. Is that the actual thing, or is that Ted's memory of the thing? Cause it's like a weird thing because some of it is so heightened and strange.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I think it was Ted's memory, right? Because a lot of the structure was pacing of like, no, wait, that's not how it happens. And then you'd go back and say, oh, but I guess that then we end up doing the one that Ted would say was the real version of it.

[Phil Lord]

But no one's memory is photo accurate either. Yeah, yeah, true. You know what keeps coming up, Neil? So the episode Showdown, the one we're theoretically going to talk about at least a little in this talk today, we're

[Alec Lev]

talking about Showdown, by the way, which aired on April 30, 2007, written by Gloria Caledron Kellett.

[Phil Lord]

The daddy issues of it all, the who is Barney's dad? Thing. We keep on coming up against another brilliant aspect of how you play the character, which is your mix. Some of it was in the writing, but I think you really helped steer the writing this way. The mix between bravado and vulnerability and needing that vulnerability to earn the bravado, if that makes sense. If you only have bravado and you don't have the. We don't get to, like, peek under that suit, under that armor and see who he really is, what his scars are, what got him where he is, I think the whole character doesn't work. And I think you really understood that in a beautiful way. This episode showdown, this is about. This is where we get this delusional moment of Barney thinks Bob Barker is his dad. Or does he really think that? And in the end of the episode, there's this wonderful. It's clear Barney doesn't really think that. He just needs to extend the denial. How much were you aware in the moment of, like, I've got to carve out that vulnerability to earn some of the cartoony craziness? Because the vulnerability is, like, the foundation to launch into the crazy. Yeah, that's a good question.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I don't. I don't think I processed it in those ways, mainly because I think I'm a fairly, like, vulnerable human. And I think I was when, especially when we were filming this, I was less secure about who I was in my life as just a person. And so I was like. I was needy and insecure as a actor. I mean, I was playing Barney, and I. And I was like, I'm a fully formed human with flaws just like anybody. But I think my flaws were, like, wanting approval and so that I think that innately plays through of the bravado. I never really, I mean you guys can speak to this a little more than me because, because I was sitting in it. But I never really finished scenes and was like, mic drop. Nailed it. Walk away. Like I was always kind of like, did you get it? Do you think that's good?

[Phil Lord]

Yeah.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Damn you happy? If you're happy, I'm good. But you want to do it again? Like I didn't know.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so weird. Most, most actors are incredibly confident and

[Phil Lord]

trusting of everything they do.

[Josh Radnor]

And this old man, he mustered me fell in love with you.

[Phil Lord]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Phil Lord]

End of commercials. Back to show.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I think Jason really was because he's also a writer and had and had created other things himself. Like he seemed very confident in the choices that he was making all the time and there was kind of a great, a great simple sort of singularity to his choices and that's what kind of grounded Marshall, I think, because he wasn't that insecure about his choices and he was always super pleased with how it was going in a great way, like necessary.

[Josh Radnor]

Anyway, I think he, I think He. I don't want to speak for Jason, and I hope we can talk to him about this one day. But I think he just. Like, I always. I always felt like Jason was a little more like he. He was doing a 9 to 5 job. That was a cool job. And he would come in and he would do it and he wouldn't stress too much about it. And then he'd go home and go on his life and go out to dinner. And, you know, I think, like, you and I, maybe it's like theater actors, like, if you. If you come from the theater, it's a little more, like, upset. You get a little more obsessive, I think. And I don't know. I do have to say that part of what inspired this. My wife Jordana, had never seen How I Met yout Mother, and she really wanted to watch it. And so I was gonna do this rewatch and I reached out to Craig. I was like, do you wanna do something more formal? Like, it could be fun to revisit the show. And so she's been watching it with me. And, boy, when you get on the Price Is Right with Bob Barker and that. That is like an opera. That is like a. That is like an unbelievable kind of. Because she was laughing so hard. We were both just dying, but I don't know. I hadn't seen it in so long. But your. Do you remember that day where you

[Phil Lord]

were on the set of the Prices?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

They talk about kids in a candy store incredibly vividly.

[Josh Radnor]

Wild. Did you grow up watching the Price Is Right? Like you, Neil, I grew up loving

[Neil Patrick Harris]

the Price is Right, obsessed with the Price Is Right, obsessed with all things game shows.

[Josh Radnor]

It was the Sick Day. The sick Day treat to end all six day treats.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I've watched them all. It was daytime. Daytime game shows. I would. I knew all of. I know all of it. I have box games that I've created. I have a Netflix show called what's in the Box Right now that I'm literally doing it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

For a gay guy, I really seem to like boxes. But. But the Bob Barker at all. I was obsessed. And before we had gone to tape it, I was able to go. It must have been during the run of How I Met yout Mother. Because of the CBS connection. I went during a reel taping and stood in the back and watched everything. And I was like an actual kid in the candy store. Couldn't believe that it was happening. Looked at the Plinko.

[Phil Lord]

But that was before you knew we were doing an episode there, right?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Correct.

[Phil Lord]

100% correct. So when you. I remember that day. Neil and I knew how important it was to you. I knew you were obsessed with Price is Right. Carter and I were, too. That's why we wrote the episode.

[Craig Thomas]

But, like.

[Phil Lord]

Like, I remember feeling nervous for you almost. I was like, you had to go. And, like, part of it, you were acting in front of the Price Is Right audience. Right? We had an audience there for a bunch of it. I remember being like, Neil has to pull off a lot, and we have this little tiny window of time on this fucking, forgive me, legendary set of the Price is Right. It's very daunting. It's what we watched when we were homesick when we were 8 years old. And here you are having the act with Bob Barker, saying things like, are you saying you're proud of me? And be near tears.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I remember asking you guys, like, is Bob gonna play along? Like, what was his temperament? Like. Cause he was a very lovely guy.

[Phil Lord]

He got it right.

[Josh Radnor]

I thought he was amazing, actually.

[Phil Lord]

He played the real.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

What was the movie?

[Phil Lord]

He did Happy Gilmore. He did Happy Gilmore. He was really funny in that.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

And he did physical comedy in that. And he had a stunt double, I think. And so I think he knew Adam Sandler ish kind of comedy. So I felt safe to do sort of that version of it. The stuff I was super happy with is that he let me, like, hug him in earnest. Like, he could have said, like, let's do a easier hug or something, but he was. He was so game and down with all of it. That. And I'd watched so much Price Is Right that I love. When I did the rewatch just. Just now, I was. I was laughing at myself when I was going, like, looking at the audience like, come on. Come on, guys.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Phil Lord]

Because, you know, you. You're a savant. Barney is literally a savant down to the side.

[Josh Radnor]

And also, this is. This is another, like, magical how I met one. He gets it down to the dollar.

[Phil Lord]

He does not miss by one number.

[Josh Radnor]

He doesn't miss by one ounce.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, I've actually forgotten the end of the episode. So when I was. Barney was contemplating the numbers and said, 18, 18641. Then I was thinking, oh, wow, wait, did this end because he intentionally went over by $1 or something? I was confused at the actual dollar. He just excited for him.

[Phil Lord]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

The saddest moment for me so far of How I Met yout Mother. And also the funniest is the flashback. But when little Barney says, want to play catch?

[Phil Lord]

Oh, the Baseball.

[Josh Radnor]

Clean throws the baseball at the tv.

[Phil Lord]

That may be the saddest scene ever shot in the history of cinema.

[Josh Radnor]

Perfect bounce. Unbelievable.

[Phil Lord]

Neil, I noticed there's a little moment, like, just the things we're catching. There's a moment where you don't have any dialogue. Bob Barker is talking. You're standing next to a. And I noticed you're trying to stand like him, to be more like your dad.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes, I noticed that too.

[Phil Lord]

I tried to match his fucking funny. I edited that episode. I watched that episode a hundred times in the edit room. I don't think I ever noticed you. That exact moment. And that's how in. You were. That's how in, like, finding every. You were alive in every little moment in that. And it's so insane. It's insane that he thinks Bob Barker is his dad. It's insane that he goes on Praise the. But you make it seem plausible because there's a beating heart behind it.

[Josh Radnor]

I feel like that's a. A very. Barney thing is, like, he has this utterly clinically insane idea that everyone around him is fully agreed this is insane. And he's like, yeah, like, this is. Of course, like, he's trying to get everyone to sign off on his version of reality, like, a lot.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And it's. It's bonkers.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Let's also remember that I don't think it was out of the realm of possibility that you wouldn't write that Bob Barker was his actual father.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

You hadn't said to us, like, oh, by the way, we have a whole arc for him where he meets his father at that point. Right, Right.

[Josh Radnor]

We didn't know it yet if you were not Barney. And then Barney, as we know Barney, comes in and says, yeah, Bob Barker from the Price is Right is my dad. You'd be like, dude, do we need to take you in?

[Phil Lord]

Is everything okay?

[Josh Radnor]

Calm down. Medicine, for sure.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

But like, on this show also, like, Britney, weird stuff happened.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Like, we were friends with Regis Secretary.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Phil Lord]

Yes.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

So for a while when we were filming it, I was thinking, like, I don't know. As I'm recollecting it. I don't. I think I was believing that he was my father.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Because you play a role.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Flashback scene that he was told that's his dad. And you see, like, the camera zooms in on his face as he recognizes his dad. And then there's all these different versions of him growing up talking to his dad. I think he really thought he was dad. And I think that there was a world where Bob Barker could have really been his dad.

[Phil Lord]

Right? It could have gone that way.

[Josh Radnor]

Standing side to side. You can buy it.

[Phil Lord]

I totally would buy it. I totally would buy it. Barney has to get to that moment of almost saying it to Bob. And that's the moment he realizes, like, this probably isn't true.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I played that end scene for real.

[Phil Lord]

You did.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Like, now I'm a little embarrassed and I'm getting sweaty as I'm saying this.

[Josh Radnor]

No, no, no.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I didn't play that last scene with the vulnerability of Barney knowing that, that if he sell. If he tells the truth and that he knows that it's not his dad and he's. And he's somehow covering for that by making up a fact that, that if he told Bob, it would end him. I was playing it as if he really sort of thought if I tell him he's my dad, he, it would hurt his life.

[Josh Radnor]

I, I think you played it right. Like, I think you actually played it because I think it's more compelling to watch a person who's gonna ride this from all the way into the sand. Like, you're not gonna give it up. You're not gonna, like, come to. Cause I think one of the great things about Barney is like, even though he changed, he never changed. There's something about I actually, the editor who edited both my movies said the difference between movies and TV show is a movie. You have to transform them in two hours. They're different at the end. But with a TV show, you have to maintain some stasis so people watch over and over, so the characters can'. Have to transform way slower. Especially if you're doing nine years.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

You know, it's why I'm. I'm a staunch supporter of the, of the ending of the whole show. I get asked that a lot, like, what do you think of the ending? And I'm like a big proponent and an active fan of it.

[Josh Radnor]

This is going to cause a couple news articles, by the way, to be written about this. Because anytime I mention the finale, it's like people literally, people write about it,

[Neil Patrick Harris]

but because of what you say. Josh is what I think is. And it's how I explain it. I think Barney is. And throughout that entire run of the show has always been that guy. He's not gonna change. And I think that it was short. It would be short sighted and like real TV sitcom logic to all of a sudden say, you know, aont winds up happily married.

[Phil Lord]

Evolution is slow. Evolution is a slow process. It doesn't happen right away. Hopefully you see Barney evolve. As we flash forward through years ahead, past that point, you see evolution starting to happen for him. But it's true. It does not happen overnight at the same time. Do you know what we keep saying? Even two seasons of watching this and doing this podcast, for these two seasons, Barney is right a lot of the time. He has, and he's insane a lot of the time. But we're noticing there's a lot of moments where Barney. Like, there's this episode a little earlier in season two, where Ted is going to move in with Robin, and Barney sits Ted down at the bar and says, no, you're not. This isn't real. Every time you talk about it, you don't call it your apartment. You call it Robin's apartment. And, like, there's just, like, these very emotionally astute. Like, these little moments of clarity. And it's almost always in the context of Barney being a fucking great friend, because he really does love Ted. He really does love Marshall. And Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

What I totally had forgotten. Barney flies to San Francisco to talk sense into Lily to get her to come back to Marshall. Like, he saves that relationship, and I had completely forgotten that. And there are these moments like, yes, he wants to get laid. Yes, he wants. But nothing means more to him than his friends. Like, there's a kind of loyalty to his friends that is very. So sweet.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I think his chosen family, for sure.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah, it's his chosen family. Yeah. No, it keeps coming up. It's actually, like, way more prevalent than I remember it being in the first two seasons. Barney's stories are often not about chasing women at all. They're often about friendship. He just wants to be the mystery

[Neil Patrick Harris]

of the dude allowed, you guys, as writers, I think, to have him be able to randomly go and fly somewhere to prove a point, to come back. Right? Yeah, because the ambiguity of.

[Josh Radnor]

Remember that Scorpion and the Toad episode, Neil, where Barney keeps taking all the women from Martin Marshall, who's now single,

[Phil Lord]

who's now single, beginning of season two. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

He keeps stealing all the women.

[Phil Lord]

He's helping Marshall, and he's like, no, I'm gonna take. I'm gonna check.

[Josh Radnor]

And he throws the number out of the cab, and Marshall gets out of the cab, but then he has it up his sleeve. Like, there's all these, like. And we were like, oh, my God, Barney's so horrible in this episode. But then 12, 15 episodes later, you realize he says to Lily, I can't keep stealing all these women from Marshall to keep him on ice for you.

[Phil Lord]

Essentially, he has a great Line. He says, marshall's the best. And there's only a matter of time until another woman sees that. So get back to New York City. Now it's a whole scene where Lily doesn't say a word. It's in San Francisco. Barney flies there, and he's wearing the same suit. He does not let Lily even speak. He closes the door and flies back to New York. And that is what got her back, and that's what got them married. And Barney becomes Marshall's best man in that episode because he's earned it. And it's great. And a lot of it is about that. That with Barney, it's cool. You think of Barney as this womanizer, and it's the playbook and it's this. It's really not a lot of the time.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Can I ask a writer's question? Because what I realize in the nine seasons of this show is that I never, ever went into the writer's room. Yeah, I mean, maybe three times I would sort of come and visit. Maybe more in the last season of like, hey, it's the last season. But I never really felt. Felt welcome. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. It's just like it was a different room in a different world. And when I did go and sit there, it was like, weird. It was like the energy had shifted. Because now, like, the person that you're writing about and pitching jokes, people are self conscious is now, like sitting there. And there was a self consciousness. So I just never went, yeah, but when, when you're in the writer's room in like the situation that you're talking about now, did you guys intend for Barney to have the pathos that he did? Or in like that scene with Marshall stealing and Barney stealing all the things, was that just a comedy driver that Barney would steal all his Girls and only 10, 12 episodes later, did you think, oh, we can reconnect that?

[Phil Lord]

Yeah, I think with that one specifically, I think it was only comedy at the time. And then we sort of went. A few episodes passed and we were like, God, Barney was a fucking dick in that one. How can this be clever? There's more to Barney than this. There's something about Barney and performance of him that made the writers made all of us want to peel back the layers. It was just like this onion, like, what's underneath this, what makes him this way? And I think part of it is how fully inhabited you were in the part. And there was something like, well, what's beneath this, though? And it was Just like, psychologically fascinating to sort of dig into that. And I think that's what I mean, the chemistry between you and the writers, whether or not you were literally in the room. There was something about the mystery and the power of that performance that we're like, we gotta understand this guy more. And whatever it was, it sent us kind of excavating it into him. And we said, you know what it could be? It could be that he had a grand plan about this Marshall thing, because he actually does love Marshall tremendously much in some ways. It's what you said. It's his chosen family.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I love that he is the way

[Phil Lord]

he is because he does not have the family. He has a great brother, and his mom is complicated, but it's his mom. But he never had a dad, and he's felt lonely, and he would die for these friends. He would. These friends are the most important.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

It was one of the greatest joys of the whole show was the experience of sitting to read a new episode.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I agree.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Sitting by myself, reading it, because we didn't know you didn't you guys never, ever once really drunk at a. At a Christmas party. You said, do you want to know the end?

[Josh Radnor]

This is late in the game.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I think episode like. Like season seven or something.

[Phil Lord]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

When you had finally fully cracked it in the way. And I didn't really want to know, but I think it wasn't until then, like, seven years in. And so I didn't know any of it. And you said, no, and I said, good.

[Phil Lord]

I'll tell you.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I'll tell you the matter.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what that strikes me as Neil is like, when you're on the show, especially if it's a good show, there's a weird thing where you're on the show, you're playing the character, you're in the ensemble, but you're also a fan of the show. So your first and only almost, like, first response of, like, getting to appreciate it as a fan is sitting by yourself and reading the episode. Because otherwise, then you. You enter into the thing.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, sure. And there's a tee hee hee element of just like, I'm gonna get to do this next week.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Like, oh, I'm gonna play a hairdresser. That's super zesty. Okay. That'll be fun.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what made it. A couple things just made us laugh. When you marry Marshall and Lily, when you. When you're the. The officiant, you're.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

You've.

[Josh Radnor]

You did this a couple times in this show, but, like, Talking through tears. Like, trying not to cry. Barney, it's a goat voice.

[Phil Lord]

It's a goat voice.

[Josh Radnor]

The goat voice.

[Phil Lord]

The goat voice. I'm just saying.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah, the goat voice.

[Josh Radnor]

And also, when people ask me what was the hardest you laughed on set in Arriva d' Arci Fiero, when you do that thing where they say, I thought you loved the Fiero, and he says, love it. And you turn to the wall and you do that. I hate it. Do you remember that?

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I hate it. I remember it very. Remember everyone laughing, too.

[Josh Radnor]

When you first did it, it crushed all of us. And then I had. I was a breaker. You're not a breaker. We do say this, that you were the least breaky.

[Phil Lord]

I think, of everyone, you did not break very often. That's when you did.

[Josh Radnor]

It was for real, but it was rare.

[Phil Lord]

You know, Seagull broke you up now and again. I feel like Seagull would do some weird. That would break you, but it was. I mean, you broke once a season like that. You really. You're very good at the dead. You help.

[Josh Radnor]

I think Seagull. Seagull broke us all when he had the pants that Lily was trying to get him to. Not the MC Hammer.

[Phil Lord]

The MC Hammer. The parachute pants.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Oh, my God. I remember that.

[Josh Radnor]

But also, Neil, one thing that we keep commenting on is the swiftness with which you're able to make some of these turns. Like. Like when James says that they're having a son and you say there's going to be a baby, like that.

[Phil Lord]

You remember that you're railing against marriage.

[Josh Radnor]

You're railing against marriage.

[Phil Lord]

We're having a baby.

[Josh Radnor]

And then just on a dime, like, there's something I. It almost strikes me as, like, slaloming down a hill and, like, clearing, like, a really hard flag or something. Like, just. Your turns are so shar and so swift. Like, is that. Is that just something instinctual to you as a comic actor? Maybe.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I. Thank you. That's very sweet. I knew that we were doing a comedy, right? So I was really. I was really focused on the form. And so I was sort of trying to channel my best Carol Burnett shows and, you know, three companies and things. And because we were all. We were all. I was worried that we were gonna get canceled all the time. And, like, we were all. It seemed a little concerned about why it wasn't getting a bigger reaction sooner. And we were working really hard, and we were sort of maybe getting picked up and then, like. And. Oh, and by the way, these final four shows all get picked up There was no heralding about it. And so, you know, I was cozying up to Les Moonves and cozying up to the Fox heads as much as I could and as much as I was able because I also. For just longevity. So I was in those scenes, I was try. You know, I was trying to be as fucking funny and as we were singing for our supper as I could.

[Phil Lord]

Could you argue that that was good? That kept us all very alert. Like those whole. It wasn't like we were a huge hit. It was. I think you referenced this earlier, Josh. Like maybe it was good that we were also hungry. I felt that we, as a writer, the writers room felt that way. Like, we've got to keep surprising people. We've got to find new things that hook people in. We've got to find things that get attention. We did. We were not coasting. We were not right. We were not taking anything for granted, any of us. And it's hard to understand that because the show became a big hit and in some ways has become an even bigger hit since it went off the air and other generations are finding it. People, the younger folks listening to this podcast might not realize we were not secure at all in season two. We did not know two, three. Two, three, four, maybe four, five is when we exhale.

[Josh Radnor]

We got a two season pickup. Right. One year.

[Phil Lord]

I think that might have been four or five. Yeah, that was when it started.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Yeah. Because once we got a fourth season, then we were in syndication. That meant 100 episodes, which means that we could then. And so that was the big turning point. Like if we can get a season four pickup, then we might go six or seven seasons because then they'll have more vested interests to have more episodes.

[Josh Radnor]

I also forgot, Craig, didn't Lifetime pick us up and start airing old episodes or something?

[Phil Lord]

They did. When it sold in the syndication, they were sort of first to slap it on there. But we got on Netflix even before the full syndication thing. Netflix changed everything. And all of a sudden we were like, wait a second, this is happening. People are consuming the show in the way it sort of is meant to be consumed in this obsessive way. And all those details and all those setups and payoffs and it's a soap opera. Like we were the right show for this new technology that was coming.

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I always kind of felt that my performance annoyed you, Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

What?

[Alec Lev]

And on that, the rare cliffhanger, we invite you to join us next week for the exciting conclusion of How We Met Neil Patrick Harris.

[Josh Radnor]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by me as Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Our Digital Content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own John Josh Radner with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we made your mother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack and check out his music and everything else at Josh Radner. Order Craig Thomas's debut novel, that's Not How It Happened wherever books are sold and check out his other published writings at craig thomas writer.com and you can subscribe to My own Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack to learn more about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference Difference tab at the top of our website. People will in fact dance

[Neil Patrick Harris]

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[Neil Patrick Harris]

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