How We Met the Office Ladies [with Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey]

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How We Met the Office Ladies"

How We Made Your Mother (Audacy & Office Ladies Network)
Episode: How We Met the Office Ladies [with Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey]
Release Date: November 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this extra-special crossover episode, hosts Josh Radnor (Ted Mosby of HIMYM) and co-creator Craig Thomas welcome Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey (Pam Beesly and Angela Martin from The Office, co-hosts of the Office Ladies podcast). Together, they explore the intertwined journeys of How I Met Your Mother and The Office—not just as hit sitcoms but as life-changing creative experiences. The episode delves into how ensemble TV is made, the struggles and manifesting required to "make it," the realities (and oddities) of becoming iconic characters, and the power of TV to serve as cultural comfort and a lifeline for viewers. The group reflects on fan impact, memory, and nostalgia while dropping behind-the-scenes gems from both series.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Shared Experience of Ensemble Sitcoms (03:00–06:00)

• Both casts reminisce about being TV "classmates": launched almost simultaneously, powered by relative newcomers, nine seasons each, and big, pre-streaming, network season orders.

  • Josh Radnor: “I always felt a special kinship with you guys. Just—We were on the air at the same time…it really felt like we were in the same kind of class.” (03:17)
  • Old-school TV production—before streaming—felt like “the tail end of a way to make television.” (04:46)

• Jenna Fischer and Craig Thomas bond over "Cheers" as their career inspiration, each delighted to have landed their versions of “ensemble comedies”.

2. Manifesting, Vision, and the Power of Delusional Dreams (07:40–12:30)

• Stories of “manifesting” careers in Hollywood, with Angela literally yelling her wishes from Mulholland Drive.

  • Angela Kinsey: “I yelled this: Hollywood, do you hear me? I wanna be on a Thursday night television comedy ensemble, preferably in the Friends time slot.” (09:55)
  • Josh discusses his equally specific "working prayer"—calling his shot about wanting to lead a hit ensemble comedy with young, first-time writers.

• Importance of a “healthy amount of delusion” in achieving dreams.

  • Craig Thomas: “You need that weird thing—like, I know I have to do this and I will just pursue this in an absolutely monomaniacal, illogical way.” (11:27)

3. Joy and Challenges of Ensemble Acting (13:55–16:55)

• Comparing the magic of group conference scenes on The Office to the chemistry-building on ensemble shows.

  • Jenna Fischer: “I didn't become an actor because I wanted to be a Star. I became an actor because the place I felt most personally expressed and accepted was in my theater club in high school.” (14:22)

• The necessary naivete and youthful bravery to chase an acting career—literally coming to LA “cold”.

4. Casting Chemistry & Audition Stories (18:18–22:50)

• Angela knew two castmates beforehand; Jenna had never met John Krasinski but instantly knew, “He needed to be Jim if I was going to be Pam” (19:54–20:22).
• The castings of HIMYM and The Office both involved “magic” pairings found via hectic screen tests and instinctual reactions (“you're my favorite Jim/Pam”).

5. Pressures of Living up to the Past (23:00–26:09)

• The Office felt heavy pressure to adapt the beloved British version:
  • Jenna Fischer: “Multiple television critics wrote articles about how they never wanted to watch our version.…We hadn't even come out yet.” (24:00)
• HIMYM sidestepped “Friends” comparisons by using unique DNA: the future-narrator and a magical style—just as The Office evolved its British root into something new.

6. Underdogs and Surprising Success (26:52–30:33)

• Both shows began as underdogs, with little network support or marketing; immense success came from fans finding them organically.
• Angela Kinsey: “Look back with great pride we weren't on a single billboard or bus…an underdog, but it’s better to be an underdog—you can always come in and surprise them.” (28:10)

7. Rewatch Revelations and Memory (41:50–46:44)

• Both podcasts serve not only fans but also as living documents for the shows’ creators—unearthing forgotten details, stories, and memories.
  • Angela Kinsey: “There will be times where we’re both watching a scene...and I'm like, I have no memory of this. I have no memory even saying those words.” (45:02)
• Importance of “oral history” and being “holders of that history”—correcting fan theories (“the color theory?!?”) and embracing the collective effort and luck it took to make magic.

8. Fan Impact—Why Comfort Shows Matter (57:25–59:55)

• Profound gratitude for fans, with stories of letters, tattoos, and how the shows serve as lifelines.
  • Letter from Javiera in Chile (61:59–62:16): “The show helped me to survive and to cope. Still does…he asked me to marry him at McGee’s and today he is my husband.”
  • Josh Radnor: “When people say, 'you got me through my divorce, the death of a loved one…' What a great use of this thing you fell in love with—that you are the light for someone in a dark moment." (57:41)
• Jenna’s moving reflection: “When I meet a fan, I imagine what it would have been like for me to meet Shelley Long…I'm on the other side now. So I want to give former Jenna exactly what she would have wanted in that moment.” (63:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Angela Kinsey (manifesting):
  “Hollywood, do you hear me? I wanna be on a Thursday night television comedy ensemble, preferably in the Friends time slot.” (09:55)
• Josh Radnor (on vision):
  “A founder has to have that same kind of insane vision, slash working prayer…you see it and then you make it.” (10:48)
• Craig Thomas (delusion):
  “There was no reason Carter and I should have been running a TV show…you kind of need a little bit of crazy to get there.” (11:27)
• Jenna Fischer (casting chemistry):
  “John leaned in and he said, 'You're my favorite Pam.' And I said, 'You're my favorite Jim.'…” (21:17)
• Josh Radnor (HIMYM's iconic line):
  “People will dance.” (32:27)
  (also the name of Josh's production company and fan tattoos)
• Jenna Fischer (on nostalgia):
  “You do capture that so well on the show. That time in your life when you're that age…You capture it so beautifully.” (52:08)
• Josh Radnor (about comfort in nostalgia):
  “Nostalgia is just a longing for a time you know you can survive.” (52:41)
• Craig Thomas (on why HIMYM & The Office endure):
  “There’s something immersive about the worlds of these two shows…Surviving to become the future you; this all makes sense to in some way who survived it.” (55:20–55:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:46 – Episode proper starts: Office Ladies are introduced
• 03:00–06:00 – Shared experience & “TV classmates”
• 07:40–12:30 – Manifesting, vision, and healthy delusion
• 13:55–16:55 – Ensemble acting and joys of the ensemble
• 18:18–22:50 – Casting stories; chemistry and “magic”
• 23:00–26:09 – Pressures of adaptation and comparison (British Office, Friends)
• 26:52–30:33 – Underdog status & organic fan support
• 30:33–37:56 – Office Ladies’ reactions to HIMYM pilot & audition stories
• 38:10–40:15 – Iconic HIMYM pilot moments dissected (the green sweater, drink-throwing scene)
• 41:50–46:44 – Rewatching, memory, and TV as a “living document”
• 57:25–59:55 – Why comfort shows matter; gratitude for fan stories
• 61:59–64:49 – Letter from Javiera; importance of community & fan connection
• 65:52 – Reflections on giving back to fans and ending thanks

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Tone & Style

The episode is warm, candid, and occasionally tear-jerking. Conversation flows playfully between friends and peers, all grounded in humility and gratitude for their extraordinary career experiences. The Office Ladies’ blend of openness and earnestness dovetails with Josh and Craig’s mix of self-deprecation, nostalgia, and honest creative reflection. Their anecdotes brim with the emotional messiness and magic of chasing big dreams, failing, and—just sometimes—catching lightning in a bottle.

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in ensemble TV storytelling, creative persistence, and the connective power of great comedy. The cast and creators of HIMYM and The Office share not just their personal stories, but collective wisdom about art, vision, memory, and the invisible threads linking creators and audiences. It's a love letter—to craft, to fans, and to those pivotal moments when “magic” happens on and off screen.

Fans of television, or anyone seeking creative encouragement, will find this episode not just fun but deeply nourishing.

Transcript

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

No, it's not. It's just weather.

[Josh Radnor]

It is an introvert's dream.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Of $45 for a three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com this is what I wrote down. I said the scene in the bar with Ted describing his future wedding to the woman he just met, followed by the look on his face when he sees Robyn for the first time. This is 100% when every woman fell in love with Ted.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, I am like this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh my God. Where was this guy when I was dating?

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity. I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you in New York City. Well, hello. Welcome to How We Made youe Mother. I'm Josh Radner. I am joined as ever by my friend Craig Thomas. Hello, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

Craig and I worked on a show together for many years. It was called How I Met yout Mother. I played Ted Mosby on that show. Craig co created the show with Carter Bayes. And now we're going through episode by episode. We're talking about it all. We have some episodes that are just episodes and some episodes are special episodes and some episodes are extra, extra special special episodes. And this is one of the extra, extra special special special episodes because we are joined by the office ladies, Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Hi, Jenna. Angela. Hi.

[Angela Kinsey]

What a lovely introduction.

[Josh Radnor]

I just wing it. I just wing it. You guys are. You've already shown us you're much more prepared than we are.

[Craig Thomas]

But they're so good at this. They're so good at this.

[Josh Radnor]

We are, we're delighted, we're delighted to have you here. We we're delighted. As I assume people know by now, we are being produced by the Office Ladies Network for our second season. We were just so thrilled to get the invitation from you guys. And, yeah, we're just going to talk about lots of things. We're going to talk about the pilot of How We Met yout Mother, we're going to talk about the Office. We're going to talk about making tv, being on TV shows for a long time, people thinking you're the character when you're not. You're a human being, all kinds of stuff.

[Craig Thomas]

So.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, thanks for joining us.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, this is tradesies. Right. We did your show and you're doing our show, so thank you for being here with us.

[Angela Kinsey]

We got to dig into Customer Survey and then also talk about how you guys made your show. And we're so tickled to be here today.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, thanks. Thanks so much for joining us. So, I guess, I mean, we talked a little bit about this, but, you know, I always felt a special kinship with the Office because, as Craig says, it felt like we were in the same high school class together. Like, we started, I think. Did you guys start a year before us? I think you might have.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

You started a year before us?

[Craig Thomas]

2004.

[Josh Radnor]

And did you guys go nine or 10 years?

[Jenna Fischer]

Nine.

[Josh Radnor]

Nine years. So we all did nine. Nine seasons.

[Angela Kinsey]

We all hit seasons, too. Like 22 episodes.

[Josh Radnor]

24 episodes. Big Network, old chunky seasons.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's not like that anymore.

[Josh Radnor]

We weathered a couple of union strikes together.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. But it all. I always felt a special kinship with you guys. Just we were on the air at the same time. You. You know, for the three of us, this was a big thing for us. It wasn't like we were coming off another big hit show or something. This really introduced us to audiences, you know, beyond, you know, what we were doing in the theater or improv, as Angela was doing still at night when she was doing the Office, which I was so charmed to hear that you were still doing improv at night. But it really felt like we were in the same kind of class. And we talked about these shows. Nine year shows, 200 episodes, 22, 24 a season. They're just not made anymore. So it feels like we didn't know we were at the kind of tail end of a way to make television. But it was a. You know, it was really exciting. What are you guys feeling these days about all that?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, it's all I ever wanted to do. It's why I drove my Mazda 323 hatchback with my cat Andy, across the country from Missouri to California. I wanted to be on Cheers. Cheers was the show I watched with my family. Cheers was the show that, like, it didn't matter that I was a teenager and I didn't want to be in the same room with my parents most of the time. I did want to be in the same room with them to watch Cheers and I wanted to be Diane Chambers. That's what I wanted. I just was like, that is such a great role. Gosh, could I ever be on an ensemble comedy like that? So the fact that I got to do it is just mind blowing. And I'm so grateful and I'm glad that I got to do it before things changed and before now it's, you know, I'm glad I got to be part of that, I guess, I don't know, old version of television.

[Craig Thomas]

We didn't know we were at the end.

[Jenna Fischer]

We didn't know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, we didn't know. And we are two of the final shows that can say we were in that same category as Cheers. Cheers was my all timer too, Jenna. That was like why I wanted to be a writer. That is my go to show. And we got to do that. We actually got to do that, didn't we?

[Josh Radnor]

We talked about that, that NBC Thursday night lineup of Cosby Show, Family Ties, cheers, Night Court, L.A. law. Like to me that was like the three hour block of television to end all three hour blocks of television. I also think it's astonishing and Angela, I want to hear where, where what brought you to California and how you ended up on the show. But there's something incredible when I think about like a 16 year old boy decided what I was going to do with my life and like how brilliant like that he knew, you know, And I think the reason what I'm doing now is different than.

[Craig Thomas]

What was his name?

[Josh Radnor]

His name?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, am I not following you here? Okay.

[Josh Radnor]

But you know, just to have the vision, I think I watched, you know, I loved Cheers, but I also loved Alex P. Keaton. I loved Family Ties. It also took place in my hometown in Columbus, Ohio. And just to. I think there's something incredible when you have very strong vision and you're able to kind of say it's like Babe Ruth pointing to where the home run's going. Like it doesn't happen all the time in our lives. I don't know that we can magically manifest everything we want. Obviously there's disappointment, there's setback, there's failure, but it's incredible that you loved something so much. And then you're like, I'm getting in the car. I'm gonna go do it. And you did. You absolutely did it. Like, Pam is the Diane of the office. You know, like, it really. You did it. Congrats.

[Jenna Fischer]

I did it. I did it. And, you know, and it was with many setbacks along the way. I mean, like you said, Josh, for the three of us, I don't know how long you were knocking around, but Angela and I, we were both knocking around for like eight, ten years before we landed on the Office. You know, just unknown struggling actors trying to make our way.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. Angela, what was it like? Where are you from, by the way?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, gosh, that's a different podcast. I mean, I was born in Louisiana. Family's from Texas and Louisiana. When I was two years old, I moved to Jakarta, Indonesia. I lived in Indonesia till I was 14 and then came back stateside. But I will tell you, growing up overseas, I didn't have television. And when we would come to the States in the summer, I would be glued. You could not pry me away from the tv. We didn't get an English speaking show in Indonesia until I was older and it was Little House on the Prairie. So when I came to the.

[Craig Thomas]

That's where you honed your comedy chops. Like, if only they can be as funny as this show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, it was always so, so dramatic. It's like, the baby's got a fever, it's Christmas Eve, Pa, go to town. And, you know, it was always like, ah. But when I would come to the States in the summer, I was like, I was watching all of these shows that were just amazing and that's all I wanted to do. I was like, that thing. That's what I want.

[Craig Thomas]

Was there a specific one or two that grabbed you that you really loved?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my goodness. I loved all of them. I loved Family Ties too. I loved Mallory. I thought Mallory had such a distinct point of view.

[Josh Radnor]

I always say I still. The only reason I know SCUBA stands for Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus is because it was in an episode of Family.

[Craig Thomas]

Certain Age. You know the rhythm of that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, same. And Cheers, too. I feel like I know, like, things, random things from Cheers, like Albania. Albania. It borders on the Adrian Adriatic because they were helping Coach, you know, on his test. I mean, anyway, those. Those were shows that meant so much to me. And all I wanted to do was be on an ensemble TV comedy. And I did this really dorky thing and it's one of the reasons why Jen and I are best friends, because we are these people where me and a gal, we were working at a restaurant on Sunset Boulevard and we had heard that Jim Carrey, like, would sort of say his things that he wanted and manifest them. And we drove up to Mulholland and we yelled out into like the Hollywood skyline. And I yelled this. Hollywood, do you hear me? I wanna be on a Thursday night television comedy ensemble, preferably in the Friends time slot.

[Craig Thomas]

And you did it. This is unbelievable.

[Josh Radnor]

I love that you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Preferably in the Friends time slot.

[Craig Thomas]

Preferably.

[Josh Radnor]

I love that. That there's like a little footnote in your prayer. There's just like a little caveat.

[Angela Kinsey]

Asterisk. Yeah, but I did. I yelled that. I wrote it out really specific. Cause my mom used to always say, God is in the details. Right? So I wrote it out really specific.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I think I told Craig this, but I had my same, like, kind of working prayer as you guys had. I said, I want to be on a hit show. I want it to be an ensemble show. I want it to be young writers who've never had a hit show before. Because I thought it was like lightning in a bottle. I just wanted to be with, like, generationally, like, I wanted to be the same age. And I said I to be the lead of it. And I want it to be in primetime.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow. Ticked all the boxes.

[Josh Radnor]

No, it was. It's. But I think it's a good thing for listeners who either have artistic aspirations or any other. I think a f. Any founder of a company has to have that same kind of insane vision, slash working prayer, where if you think about anything, man made like a chair, like it was in your imagination before. Like, you. You see it and then you make it. So I really do. I do believe that having some sort of vision for where you want to go is the best way to get there, you know, because otherwise you're just kind of bopping around on the high seas of.

[Craig Thomas]

You have to be delusional a little bit. Right? You have to be a little healthy amount of delusion.

[Jenna Fischer]

I agree.

[Craig Thomas]

There was no reason Carter and I should have been running a TV show in 2005. We maybe shouldn't have even been staffed on a sitcom. We had never written on a sitcom when we created and started running How I met your mom. We'd never written on like a multi camera, proper sitcom that way and that. Right. You need that weird thing of, like, I know I have to do this and I will just pursue this just in an Absolutely monomaniacal, illogical way. Right. You kind of need a little bit of crazy to get there.

[Josh Radnor]

And even, you know, I'm just getting this image of Angela shouting at the. By the. Was it by the Hollywood sign?

[Angela Kinsey]

Mulholland. We drove up to Mulholland. But preferably I shouted. I'm sorry. Sorry. I didn't shout. To the valley side of Mulholland. To the Hollywood side.

[Craig Thomas]

Sure.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. No, that was smart. Or your life could have taken a different turn.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it worked. It worked. Yeah. Who knows what would have happened?

[Angela Kinsey]

Although my show did end up shooting in the Valley, so, you know, but it's also.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a very Ted Mosby thing to kind of shout at the heavens, make it rain. I mean, he had his moments of, like, deep, intense prayer. I also. I'm struck by the fact that you guys both said, I want to be on an ensemble show. I want to be a part of a great ensemble.

[Craig Thomas]

I know.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think that, you know, any great show is not one great character. It's many great characters. It's anywhere you turn, you're delighted. Whatever configuration of the characters are in a scene, you're delighted by that. For me, that was like my theater background. You know, just being in companies every summer and in grad school, I loved being in the trenches with other actors and putting on a show. And I wrote you this little ditty just sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back. Come to DSW for the shoes.

[Craig Thomas]

Stay for the fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping.

[Josh Radnor]

Isn'T fun, are you even doing it right?

[Jenna Fischer]

So go ahead, try something new. Try something different.

[Craig Thomas]

Good different.

[Josh Radnor]

Try something that feels like you. You know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play.

[Josh Radnor]

Find the shoes that get you at.

[Jenna Fischer]

Prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail] let us surprise you.

[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

There were many times we were in big group scenes, whether it was in the conference room. You know, we had so many conference room scenes and everyone would have a line and be bouncing around. And it was so fun to watch. You would feel that energy of all these people, just like bringing their best game and feeding off of each other. And I miss a day in the conference room. Jenna, can you believe I'd ever say that? Cause we spent so much time.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, Same. If I could go back in time. But, you know, I didn't become an actor. Cause I wanted to be a Star. I became an actor because the place I felt most personally expressed and accepted was in my theater club in high school. It was being with the other theater nerds and the people who just love diving into character and being funny and performing. Like there was an ensemble aspect to why I loved being an actor. And so that was part of what drove me to LA was I wanted to find my acting troupe and my acting troupe I hoped would be a TV show.

[Craig Thomas]

Did you guys know anybody in LA when you moved out to la? Did you just move out completely cold? More or less.

[Angela Kinsey]

I didn't know a single person.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I knew two people. So this guy I had gone to college with and studied theater with, he had gone out the year prior and I moved in with him. We were not boyfriend and girlfriend, but so I knew a guy and he had a commercial agent. So I was pretty sure probably, you know, Right. Like his commercial agent would be my commercial agent, obviously.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

You got up on Mulholland and you said, give me a commercial agent. That's the same as this guy's.

[Jenna Fischer]

So as I'm driving out, I know I have a commercial agent already. They just haven't met me yet. And then also my mom had a friend at church whose son was a literary agent at William Morris and I was pretty sure he was gonna rep me across the board. You know, just again, I didn't know that literary agents don't handle actors. So those were the two people I met and neither of those leads panned.

[Craig Thomas]

Out, if you can believe that.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's, that's who I knew.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you guys ever have. I. I have this thing as. Now that I'm older, I have this thing where I miss my youthful naivete a little bit. Like I miss the part of me that would like load up a car and drive to LA or shout from a, you know, a mountainside about. And I still have versions of, of, you know, things I'm really going for and things I'm really envisioning. But it's almost like when you know a lot more, there's a lot more that you can be afraid of or there's a lot more you, you almost realize, like, oh, it's hard to get an acting job. Like, it's hard to, to get these jobs. And I would just waltz into some of these rooms, like with so much weird bravado, like so much weird 26 year old bravado, and just be like, this is my role, you know it. Right. You know, that was my energy. And sometimes they'd be like, yeah, it is. You know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah. It's true, though. It is. What is that phrase? Youth is wasted on the young.

[Josh Radnor]

Wasted on the young. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I went and did an improv show at Harvard. They invited me as their guest for their show. It's so fun. And you're just around all these kids that are just at the beginning, you know? And I took my daughter and my son with me. Cause at the time, they were freshman in high school. And we go and we're walking around Harvard, and my son looks at me, who has not signed up for any extracurricular or anything. He's like, yeah, I could go here. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, buddy.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, but it's.

[Angela Kinsey]

You might want to. You might want to sign up for some stuff. But it's that thing, Josh, where you, like, you walk in a room like, yeah, this job is mine. Whatever.

[Craig Thomas]

The idea of waltzing into that room and auditioning for a pilot, like, Josh. Josh was our first audition, day one of. Day one of auditions. Like, he.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, you told that story. Yes. I forgot that.

[Craig Thomas]

It was crazy. It was just the universe kind of wanted him to do this part. You guys had been trying to find that moment, it sounds like, for eight, 10 years before you found the office. Before the office found you. There is something kind of magical about when you walk in and it's the right fit, right? And then you're on this cast and you have to figure out how to. How to act like you've all known each other for all these years. Can you guys both talk about. Cause we've talked about that idea of, like, Josh got cast and had to play the best friend of Jason Segel, who he didn't know, and Alyson Hannigan, who he didn't know. Can you just talk about, like, you walk in, you get this opportunity, and then you forge this history that you've all been together for all these years. Can you just talk about, like, a little bit about how you approach that, how that moment found you?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I will jump in here and say that I was very fortunate because I knew Oscar Nunez and Cate Flannery. Now, let me say this. We didn't know the other had been cast because our show took off before social media, you guys. There was, like, people weren't posting what all they were doing.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, we didn't know anything.

[Angela Kinsey]

We didn't know anything. So I walked onto set, and there's Oscar. And he and I had done a sketch comedy show together. We had met at the Groundlings, and I was like, oh, my gosh, Oscar. And not only did I know him, but he was my desk mate in my clump. So I was like, okay, we're gonna be off to the races here. And then Kate Flannery walked on set and she and I had done an improv show together called Bitch Planet. And I was like, kate, what the heck? So I was so tickled that that little corner. I knew some people.

[Craig Thomas]

That's nice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. But Jenna, you had to, like, have this sort of shared history with John, who you had only just met.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we did do on camera screen tests as our final network test for the Office. And so I spent two days being mixed and matched with different Dwights and Michaels and Jim's. And I knew immediately that John needed to be Jim if I was gonna be Pam. And I knew I was Pam. I knew it deep. I never had this kind of delusional confidence that we're talking about where I was like, this is mine until Pam.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But I knew she was mine. And like, to the point where there was another actress in the waiting room and she had on these, like, thigh high suede boots that she was wearing. And I thought, pam would never wear this boot.

[Craig Thomas]

That's not Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

Pam would never wear those boots. I know Pam. She doesn't dress like that.

[Josh Radnor]

So.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, but then when I. So after that, on the second day, you know, I didn't know really where I stood, but they were matching me with John a lot. But they weren't matching me with Rain a lot. And we. Everybody knew he was gonna be Dwight. Like, it was, we're like, that guy's Dwight. And so I got nervous. I was like, well, I think they're matching me with who I think is Jim, but they're not matching me with who I think is Dwight. And then so on the second day, John leaned in and he said, you're my favorite Pam. And I said, you're my favorite Jim. You're my favorite Jim. We agree. And then when my agent called me and told me I got the role, I said, but who's Jim? And they said, it's John Krasinski. And I said, oh, thank God. And they said, that's what he said.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, man. That's what he said.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who's Pam? And we said, jenna Fisher. And he said, oh, thank God. So we did have a connection from the audition that. That folded very easily into the life of magic.

[Craig Thomas]

There's like, magic that goes into this. It really is.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I went through that process with Cobie Smulders. You know, at the studio, at the network. And by the time, I think we were the only people you guys brought to the network, there were other actors at the studio, but you only brought us. So by the time you end up on set after having been through the audition process, which is such a heightened, strange, disorienting thing, you actually do feel like you know the person. You know, you've stared into their eyes lovingly. Like enough that there's some kind of.

[Craig Thomas]

Bond developed in front of executives in a small room.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I was thinking about our two pilots, the two moments that we launched. How I Met yout Mother had zero expectations, right? We were this young, weird little show on cbs. We were. We were. We didn't think we were gonna get picked up. We thought the wrong network bought us. We should be on NBC. We thought we should be on NBC. Like with the Office, right? You guys premiered the year before we did. Oh, no. NBC didn't buy the show. We sold to cbs. The shows there are different from the show we're trying to do. They're older, skewing, it's not gonna work. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And no, there was no expectation at any point in pop culture about our show. Our show snuck through and somehow got on the air because CBS happened to be looking for a younger, skewing show at that moment. So we just were like stealth flying under the radar. That's how. How I Met yout Mother got on the Office. I think about this. When I think about you guys, how. How daunting was this expectation that you're taking this British show that was this very revered and especially among comedy nerds in America, right? Like, this very revered piece that's very different from what your show was gonna be in a great way. You guys carved out your own territory. How much pressure did you feel launching a show? Cause there's so much pressure trying to launch a show on Thursday night on NBC. And then you have this extra pressure of trying to live up and. Or differentiate from this thing that a lot of comedy people thought was the new bible, you know what I mean? With, like, the reverence for that British office. Rightfully so. It's a great show. Very different show from your show. What did that feel like? Cause we didn't work under any kind of expectation or pressure.

[Jenna Fischer]

There were multiple articles written before we ever premiered about how shitty we were.

[Craig Thomas]

Before anyone saw it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like, multiple television critics wrote articles about how they never wanted to watch our version.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have a scrapbook full of these things because I was so you know, I was like, physical articles. I remember I was on the tube in London, and there was, like, the London TV Guide, and it had pictures of the original cast members and who was playing their counterparts, and they were just ripping us to shreds. We hadn't even come out yet.

[Craig Thomas]

You'd done nothing wrong. Nothing had even happened yet.

[Jenna Fischer]

They hadn't even what we were gonna do. And so, yeah, we were up against, like, people were just ready to hate on us.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. What a weird extra pressure. Angela, how did you experience that? Like, that seems impossible. It's already such a hard job to launch a TV show and then to have that shadow. It's a lot.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's a lot. And also, I mean, the majority of the people on the show were also comedy nerds. So we knew. We had watched the BBC version, and we were like, that's. That's pretty damn perfect.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, holy crap, how do we not be that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, we don't want to tread on that or not do it justice. And so I think we were carrying that pressure of, like, oh, wow, please, please let us be able to do something great with it. And then I remember when we were filming Diversity Day, I remember thinking, wow, okay, we have got something really special. I think the pressure from the pilot had been lifted a little bit.

[Craig Thomas]

Right. Get the pilot out of the way. Are you talking about episode two now? Episode two is Diversity Day. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I should say episode two of season one. And I felt like, okay, we could maybe do our spin on this and do it really well. This is a group of crazy, talented people. And I got hopeful in Diversity Day, the pilot was just this pressure cooker of like, oh, my gosh.

[Craig Thomas]

I imagine.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And the pilot was the same script as the British pilot. But Diversity Day was original. And speaking of being, like, young and writing a hit television show, Diversity Day was written by BJ Novak, who I believe was, like, 26 at the time.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's a beautiful piece of television. It's a great episode. Yeah. Great episode. And so, yeah, I think when we in the production process, when we started doing those episodes that were our scripts and not the British scripts, like, not just redoing the British scripts. And, you know, Greg Daniels did not want to redo the British pilot. He wanted to write an original pilot. But NBC was like, no, we know that's a hit, so you have to do. For the pilot. You have to do that. But then when we got picked up after the pilot, then they said, okay, you can write five original ones to go with It.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, it also occurs to me that. But it's great to be an underdog. Like, it's hard to be an underdog, but it's better to be an underdog, because when people have too many expectations of you, it can be a little crushing. But if they have zero expectations or very low expectations, you can always come in and surprise them. I was watching. My wife and I were watching the. Did you guys see the Simone Biles documentary?

[Jenna Fischer]

No. Is it amazing?

[Craig Thomas]

It's great.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. I mean, it's a series, but she said there's nothing better than coming up. Like, she didn't like being at the top, top, top. She liked being. Where did this girl come from? Right.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I said to my wife, I said, I wonder if subconsciously. Remember when she got the twisties?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, and she had to withdraw from the Olympics. I was like, I wonder if she unconsciously gave herself a restart where she had to come back from the bottom. Like, she loved the climb up again so much.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a great theory. She needed to be an underdog again to have that hunger, because it's like.

[Josh Radnor]

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. You know what I mean? Like, it's hard to be at the top. And I think, like, if you talk to anyone at the top, top, top, they'll be. They'll be wistful for the early days. They'll be wistful for the days when they were just, like, shouting into, you know, the Hollywood Hills and, you know, living on the couch. Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

I also sort of look back on it now with great pride that we weren't on a single billboard or a bus. Like, you could drive around LA and never know that we were gonna be on NBC. And there was another show and, Jen, I forget the name of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was My Name is Earl.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, no. There was another show that was gonna launch the same week as us, and they were on every bus and everything.

[Craig Thomas]

No, My Name Is Earl launched the year we did from the same studio and got so much more promotion and press. We felt like we were very much in the shadow of that giant mustache on Earl's face. We were always looking up at billboards.

[Jenna Fischer]

We all clearly have been in the shadow of the My Name Is Earl. That's the first one that came to mind for me.

[Craig Thomas]

We felt very inferior. We were the underdog to that one.

[Josh Radnor]

But isn't it amazing? I mean, there's certain shows that are popular nowadays where you're like, the algorithm and the powers that be are making this A thing. Whereas our shows are both powered by fans finding them like, it's literally like old timey word of mouth kind of classic stuff. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Well, Josh, the closest we came to having to subvert any kind of expectation was we knew we didn't want to be too close to Friends. That was the one shadow that was kind of akin to you guys doing the Office. We definitely were aware that 7,000 shows had tried to be a Friends like show between when Friends launched and when our show launched in 2005. And I'd say that's. I realize I do have some kind of connection to the feeling you guys were describing of. I know we're going to get compared to this other show. How do we make sure we are as different from that show in the content? Right. Maybe the billboard if we ever. We didn't get too many billboards either, by the way. But maybe the cast photo looks similar. But how do. When you turn on the show, how do we make sure the show feels molecularly different on kind of this like, DNA level? Like this show has a different rhythm, a different tone from Friends. And that was part of our mission. And I'm sure it sounds like that was part of your guys mission too. Like we have to make this our own. You said you didn't exhale Angela until episode two, when you were like, this is us making it our own. This is actually what it's supposed to be.

[Josh Radnor]

So. Yeah. So you guys watched or rewatched rather, our pilot. Yeah, that we did.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

You guys asked us. What did you ask us? Overall reactions. Was that the phrase you guys use?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Overall reactions, please.

[Josh Radnor]

We'd love to hear your overall reactions.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, man, I loved it. I hadn't seen this in a long, long time. And I forgot the different beats of it. And I loved it. And Josh, this could sound really weird. Sorry. But I was so, like, smitten with Ted. I'm just like, Ted is so charming. I just. I was so rooting for Ted.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is what I wrote down. I said the scene in the bar with Ted describing his future wedding to the woman he just met, followed by the look on his face when he sees Robyn for the first time. This is 100% when every woman fell in love with Ted.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. I am like this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God, where was this guy when I was dating? Where was Ted? And I know this must. We've talked about this then, Josh. But this. Every woman did fall in love with Ted. And then you have that. You gotta carry that around. I mean, John Krasinski had that with Jim.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, for sure. Here's when I was sunk. I was sunk there. But then. I mean, forget about it now is when he was like, you know, look, obviously you can't tell a woman you just met you love her, but it sucks that you can't. I just love that I'm like, I. I would have been like, okay, let's go.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're. Where's the church?

[Angela Kinsey]

Let's do this.

[Josh Radnor]

If I can find the email where I asked you guys to be on the show, I think I said, will you just come on and compliment me for 20 to 30 minutes? And you were like, of course. That's what we'll do. It's so funny. There's a. You know that line where one of my favorite things from the pilot is where he's talking to Yasmine, I think, and says, you know, it's not like I sit around and think about my wedding. And then he goes into this long fantasy about his wedding, and he says at the end, you know, bam. No dj. People will dance. I'm not gonna worry about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love that.

[Josh Radnor]

And I'm not gonna show you the full. But my. I named my corporation People Will Dance. Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Based on that line.

[Josh Radnor]

Based on that line. Because it became a kind of weird little catchphrase in my life where I would just. It was a way to comfort myself and say, don't worry about it. Like, People will dance. You don't have to stress in this moment. And I still. I've had people come up to me and show me their arms, and they've gotten People Will Dance tattooed on their. On their forearms. Do you guys see the tattoos? The office tattoos?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Isn't that one of the most startling things about being on a show?

[Craig Thomas]

A lot of how much mother tattoos. It's shocking. It's amazing. Thank you to the fans. It's a big commitment. When Josh auditioned, he did Angela, his audition, he had two scenes. One of them was that speech. And he did that speech in the room with our casting director, me and Carter, and I think maybe Pam Freyman, our director. And at the end of it, our casting director, Megan Bramman. There was just a beat in the room. Cause Josh crushed that speech. It was so perfect. It was exactly as it was then, shot weeks later. And. And there was a little silence where all of us were blown away. And Megan Brandman says to Josh, will you marry me? And we're like, this shit worked.

[Josh Radnor]

And I did. It did last, but I married the casting director.

[Craig Thomas]

No, I Ended terribly.

[Jenna Fischer]

Josh, did you ever audition for Jim Halpert in the Office audition process?

[Josh Radnor]

I did.

[Jenna Fischer]

You did, didn't you?

[Craig Thomas]

Holy shit. I did. I didn't notice.

[Josh Radnor]

I almost said it, but it's true. I did. I. I mean, I. I was. I auditioned for everything, of course.

[Jenna Fischer]

Me, too.

[Josh Radnor]

I tested for Arrested Development. You know what I mean? Like, I auditioned for everything. And I remember I auditioned for Jim, and I didn't quite understand if he was smart or not smart. Like, there was. I was a little confused about whether he was part of the, like, smart gang or not smart gang. And I remember the. I had a good audition, but my improvs were a little bit. I think made him too dim, was kind of what I realized. But I did. I'm such an Alison Jones fan.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

For the smartest fans out there. Allison Jones is the casting director of the Office and many other great shows.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, I think she is like any great ensemble comedy of the last 20, 25 years has been Allison Jones. You know, she scoops the most interesting people, the funniest, most watchable people. So I had a good. Like, she liked me. She brought. I remember meeting Greg, and I didn't. You know, I didn't get a test deal.

[Craig Thomas]

I didn't.

[Josh Radnor]

It was, like, not a. It was not a terrible audition. I just think. I didn't quite understand the tone exactly, but I think we all landed in the right place anyway. How did you hear that? Was that just a hunch, or had you heard that?

[Jenna Fischer]

No. Alison saved the sign in sheets, and I saw your name on the sign in sheet. And Jason Segel also auditioned for Jim, I believe. Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, my God. Was it on the same day that you came in?

[Jenna Fischer]

No, it wasn't on the same day that I came in. It was a different day. But you guys know also that if I hadn't landed Pam on the Office, I might have auditioned for Lily. Because my biggest acting nemesis coming up in the business was Alice o'. Hannigan.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. Is that right? Did you feel it?

[Jenna Fischer]

She got every part. We would go down to the Wire and she would get it.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

Over and over and over again.

[Craig Thomas]

And any big ones. Any, like, Buffy or something? No, Buffy was too far, too early.

[Jenna Fischer]

Buffy had already happened. And so she had a name value that I didn't have. But we were, like, you know, very similar in our type. And I just remember I would get to a test deal and I'd go in the waiting room, and if she was sitting there, I'D be like, damn it again.

[Josh Radnor]

Every actor has, like, two or three nemeses. Like, everyone has them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Mine was Rachel Harris, Jamie Dimbo. We'd walk in and be like, oh, someone wanted the sassy blonde lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. That's so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

And if it wasn't Alice in Hannigan, it was Marilyn Ricegup. So those were my two big women that I was always, like, getting down to the wire.

[Craig Thomas]

This was amazing. I did not know that. You would have been a great Lily, by the way. We would have been very lucky to have you. Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

You so much.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you. I mean, I can't imagine. I mean, that's the thing. I can't imagine anyone else now as Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you guys know something I noticed about my early years? Cause I was auditioning so much that you start to notice, like, what are the conditions that allow you to be your best and what are the conditions that throw you. When I walked into a waiting room, if I was the only person there or if I was the only man there, I would have an 85% better chance of booking the job. The moment I saw another actor roll in, I was like, there was something almost psychological. They're seeing other actors for this. This is great. You know, or you see them and you're like, we were supposed to wear a suit. Like, you start, like, questioning what you. What you wore.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, all of it.

[Josh Radnor]

It really would. I would even try. When I was signing in, I trained myself not to look at the other names because it would so rattle me if I saw, like, any of my nemeses on the. On the list.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It really became, like, a psychological game. Like, I had to create the best conditions for myself. And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you. New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now commercials. End of commercials. Back to show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Craig. One of my favorite little beats in the pilot is the throwing of the drink in the face.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

How you turned that. You know, that thing that we've seen in multiple romantic comedies? Like, you put this a new spin on it. It was so fun. It made the character of Robin so fun. It was super charming. I loved that moment.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm glad. That's one of my favorite moments in the pilot, too, in part because it connects Ted and Robin so much. And people were just meeting Cobie Smulders. Right. Cobie Smulders had not done a. Leading up to this.

[Angela Kinsey]

She turns around in that green sweater.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, the green sweater.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was like, what a great character reveal moment. I'm Just like, who is this gal?

[Craig Thomas]

It's an old movie moment.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Isn't that an old movie across a crowded room? It really is. It really worked. And the connection between the two of them. And again, these guys had only just met, but had bonded a lot in that process we talked about. You do bond in a hurry going to all these auditions. It's very high pressure. And the idea in that moment, Jenna. The reason I like the moment so much, too, is they're. Yes. Ending each other. Those two characters are doing a weird little improv game. They've met three seconds ago, and they're doing it to make her friend feel better who just got dumped. Her friend who just got dumped and sitting in the corner, can't know she's flirting with a guy. So they act out this little pretend scene. And that's such a great connection. And, yeah, that kind of launches the whole series in a way. From that moment, you know, it occurred to me.

[Josh Radnor]

It's just occurring to me now, Craig, that, like, what you and Carter were doing was, on some level trying to create a world that was both real and recognizable while also honoring that you were completely influenced by romantic comedies of the last, like, 50 to 60 years. There were certain tropes that you were, like, hitting. And one thing we talk about on the show is that it's a real world where also magic exists and telepathy exists. You guys really allowed the universe to be enchanted in How I Met yout Mother while also being incredibly real, which I think is like a real deft balancing act.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Well, I mean, thank you. I'm glad we cast you as Ted. I like you. You're a good guy.

[Angela Kinsey]

We'll keep you around.

[Craig Thomas]

We're gonna keep you around. Yeah. We didn't know what we were doing. We wanted to write the show that broke some rules. And we were so lucky to have this tool of the future narrator. The future narrator. This is his memory. Right. So sometimes his memory could be photorealistic, and sometimes his memory could be absolutely unreliable and even insane and be tinged with magic. Tinged with the way that we retroactively put magic and put shape on our lives from the future.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, the romanticized version.

[Craig Thomas]

The romanticized version. Right. There's something there. And we had that tool. And I thought about this watching the Office when we talked about your guys episode. Like, the tool of just the verite, the cinema verite, the documentary style brings you into such a mood piece in the Office. And the way that the Talking Heads allow you to cut and edit and Shape the Office, I assume, is very much written in post as well. Right. You're in the edit room. There's a lot of rearranging and shaping and stuff. And the narrator enabled us. We were rewriting those in the edit room all the time. And to create those moments, like the across the Crowded Room moment, that's like a narrator moment that is shaped by the future narrator that becomes a little movie. And these little tricks, the little tricks of the Office, the little bag of tricks of How Met yout Mother, those things that set it aside from every other show, those are the reasons these shows still speak to people 20 years later, I think. Right. There's what makes it special.

[Josh Radnor]

We've noticed as the show's gone on, because we're like, just kind of getting into the second season. But how the writers on How I Met yout Mother and I feel this probably is true about the Office. You learn how to use the convention to maximum effect. Like the talking Heads. I'm sure there were problems. I'm guessing that if you had a narrative problem, you could actually solve it with a talking head.

[Angela Kinsey]

You could connect something with a talking head, too. Like a storyline.

[Josh Radnor]

Totally.

[Craig Thomas]

It's an editing tool.

[Josh Radnor]

There's a thing in episode five, which is the. Where they go to this club and they can't hear each other, so it's all subtitled. And there's a thing where they have to. Marshall had a tooth surgery, but they're just like, oh, yeah, I forgot to mention this part. And they just say, your Uncle Marshall had his tooth extracted or whatever.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, instead of setting that up in, like, Act One, which would have been boring, we just decided like, oh, I forgot to tell you this, kids. The future narrator is like, you know, people fuck up the story sometimes, but.

[Josh Radnor]

It'S really like leaning into the narrator of, like. We actually can solve a lot of problems by just leaning into this guy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And I also. I believe it because even when you guys were on our podcast and Jenna was talking about how the two of you first met, and she was like. And you were playing guitar, and you're like, nope, I hadn't learned guitar yet.

[Craig Thomas]

But it's like future Jenna is romanticizing her current day Jenna.

[Jenna Fischer]

Future Jenna. My future narrator was like, oh, no, he doesn't play guitar yet.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, we all do that. We all do that.

[Josh Radnor]

But memory is fallible. I mean, that's one of the things I think that How I Met yout Mother really deals with is like, we actually have the kind of meta question, is this what really happened, or is this what the narrator remembers happening?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. And now we're those future people looking back. That's the weirdness of this as a rewatch podcast. Like the Russian nesting dolls of perspectives that we're now like, oh, right. We are now those future guys almost. And so do you guys. As you dive back into these episodes and rewatch this part of your. A different chapter of your life when you were younger, are you surprised by things? Are you Like, I completely forgot because I'm having. We're in. We're only in season two. Right. And I'm having moments where I'm like. Like, I spent so many hours in the writing room, writer's room, crafting this episode, and I forgot an entire, like, B story. You know, I just, like, forgot that happened in this episode. What are your own memories? Like, what has that experience been like on your guys rewatch podcast? Like, how fallible has your memory proven to be versus how accurate? Holding on to the details.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I think one of the things that was great for Jenna and I is we were both sort of historians without realizing it. We were both the two people that took tons of pictures and I kept a journal and I saved tons of emails that she and I would send back and forth. Before you texted people, you would sort of just shoot an email about your day.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then we've been so fortunate to have so many writers, writers, assistants, directors, David Rogers, our editor, who have helped us sort of remember and fill in the gaps. And so that's been amazing. But there will be times where we're both watching a scene and we're uncover some bit of trivia, and I'm like, I have no memory of this. I have no memory of even saying those words.

[Craig Thomas]

Isn't that weird?

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't even remember the scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

For me, like, the Office is kind of one big, long episode. Like, I remember lots of things that happened, but I couldn't tell you what episode they happened in. Like, I know that Pam goes on the road with Michael and she uses a chainsaw. And then there's gonna be a scene where he's, like, having a weird thing where he's talking about Holly and Pam's uncomfortable, but I couldn't name that episode. Like, that's that kind of recall I don't have, but fans do.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

As we were rewatching it a lot of times, for me, it would be like, oh, my gosh, that's when that happened.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, I'm having that a lot.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, but. And there are whole storylines that I didn't remember. But what is delightful to me is when we get to an episode where there's a storyline I wasn't in, so I didn't see it be filmed. And so then I'm really just an audience member. And I love those. Those are fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also, in our remembering, we would shoot a cold open, and a lot of those times, they would move them to a different episode. Cause those were sort of standalone moments.

[Craig Thomas]

Those were standalones, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And so you would forget, like, where did that happen? And, you know, so it is kind of hard sometimes to remember exactly.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, one of the things that Craig and I, I think we touched upon this is like, the story of How I Met yout Mother is not just in the episodes and the edited episodes. Like, there's a story of, like, the people that were making it at the time. We. We are the. I don't know. Like, we're holders of that history, and we're kind of, like, through this podcast, elongating the oral history of the show.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, we're actually even. Like, there's fan theories that. There's this whole color theory that all the fans have about how Carter and Craig were so deliberate about what clothes the characters were wearing in blue here and yellow here. And we. We got asked about it in a question, and Craig and Carter, I think both were like, yeah, we have no idea what that is. Like, we don't know. That wasn't a thing we were doing. But also, there was some truth to it, because it's actually a compelling theory. It's like, it's. It's pretty much in there because the unconscious is doing a lot of work. I also want to say one other thing. I. Some director said every movie, and I would extend this to TV shows, but they were talking about movies. Is actually a documentary of the people who came together and made the movie at that time in their lives. Like, if you watch a movie of yourself or a TV show, you look different, you look younger, and you remember that time. If you go on location, like, oh, we were in Austin and we were shooting, and it all comes back to you, but it's. It's documented. Not all of it, but, like, it functions as some sort of living document or photo album of a time in your life.

[Craig Thomas]

How many people get to have a document of that? What does that feel like? You guys do. You have that moment, all three of you as actors. Like, I don't know what this is like, where you're watching this. Pursuit of Doing a Rewatch podcast. You're watching your younger self, and there must be moments where you're like, who is that person again? What were they worried about? What, did they go home that night and have trouble sleeping? Cause they were thinking about that thing or having a great night.

[Josh Radnor]

The reason Craig and I started doing this was because my wife Jordana, had never seen how I met your mother.

[Angela Kinsey]

I read that.

[Josh Radnor]

So she said to me, you know, I don't know, two years into our relationship. Cause I kind of forbid her from, like, going immediately and watching it. And she said, I really. I feel like I've missed. I missed this huge chapter of your life. And I would like to. I'd like to be brought up to. I'd like to know what that was like. What were you like? What was going on in your life? I mean, she knew, you know, I told her a lot of stuff and stories, but. But there's something about. It's been quite startling for me to sit next to my wife watching all of this, and she's never seen it. So it is like having this weird animated photo album of a decade of your life where it wasn't your life. You're playing a character. Those aren't your clothes. Those aren't your lines. I like to be very clear about that with. You know, I even get weird. I'm much less weird. But when people say, say, are you Ted? I always say, I played him because I like people to know, like, that's not my name. It's a different thing. But there is still a lot of me in the. You have to lend a lot of yourself to the character, especially if you're gonna play it that long. And it's just been, like, a really fascinating revisiting of a time in my life, but from the perspective, again, of this older person with my now wife. And I'm glad it exists. I'm glad that there's this document of those years.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I'll just add to that really quickly and say it is really weird when your character is also your name. So Angela.

[Josh Radnor]

And Angela, that is.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I am nothing like.

[Josh Radnor]

That would be the end of me, by the way. So I commend you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I am nothing like Angela Martin. But I will walk through a shopping mall and someone will yell, Angela. And I turn around because it's my.

[Craig Thomas]

Name, it's your name, it's my name.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then, of course, like, watching the Office has been so layered for me because it's such a special chapter of my life in nine years. Josh and Jenna, as you know, and Craig, a Lot of life happens in nine years. People lose loved ones, people get married, people have babies. Jenna and I both had our own pregnancies while on the show, and I started rewatching the show with my daughter, who's now a teenager. And I was like, okay, you see this scene in Dinner Party where we're all around that table. I was eight months pregnant, and you were kicking like crazy. And it was so hard to remember my lines where I say, I don't want your beats in my mouth, Dwight, because you were kicking. And she was like, no way. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like. That moment where we walk into Jan and Michael's condo and we're holding that huge flower bouquet that Andy has. It's to hide my belly. They had to write a joke so we could hide you. You know, so there's these layers.

[Craig Thomas]

And what did your daughter think of that? Did she think that was cool? Like, there I am on screen kind of?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, she thinks it's really cool. She does not like how mean I am to Phyllis. She does not like watching those scenes. She's like, mom, you're so mean. And I do want to say a little love letter to your show in re. Watching this pilot, I became so nostalgic for that chapter in my life. Just the clothes, the set design, and Lily and Marshall's apartment. And I mean, just all of it. And also, like, when Robin slides a business card to Ted, I was like, oh, business cards?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, it just was, like, so cozy, and I couldn't wait. I just had to keep watching. I went right in. You know, on Netflix, it says next episode, and I just kept going. Cause I felt just this warm feeling of getting to revisit a time in my life.

[Jenna Fischer]

You do capture that so well on the show. That time in your life when you're that age and you're trying to figure out who am I as an adult? You capture it so beautifully.

[Josh Radnor]

That's this playwright. Did you ever do any Richard Greenberg plays? Jenna, do you know him? He's a wonderful playwright. He passed away in July, I think. And I went to his memorial last week, and he has a line from one of his plays that says, nostalgia is just a longing for a time, you know, you can survive.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, I'm have to put that in my journal of lines.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's just that line crushes me. Because when you think back on a time like. Like, you.

[Craig Thomas]

You.

[Josh Radnor]

You know how it ended. You know how you. You did figure it out. You. You did get the job or you did get married, or you, you, you found your way out of the. The dark, hard part. But right now we don't. That's why I think, like even nationally, politically, we always think it's the worst time because we don't know our. We don't know if we're going to get out of it. Whereas every other period or epoch seems to be like, well, that wasn't that bad because atlant. We, we know how that played out. You know, there's something about the unknown that is scary. And one of the deft things about How I Met yout Mother is the character I was playing didn't know, but the older narrator character knew.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So. And Craig and Carter have talked about this thing of like they were these 29 year old kids writing in the kind of authoritative voice of a 54, 55 year old man.

[Craig Thomas]

Right? Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And they were almost like using this, this older.

[Craig Thomas]

You were cosplaying wisdom.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. Using this older, wiser voice to comfort themselves about the phase they were actually in.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Now we're catching up to that. I'm surprised by how much of it holds up and doesn't seem like total bullshit. I'm like, that's actually pretty good. Every now and again something will happen. I'm like, I'm not so sure about that one. But yeah, we hear from people in their 20s now, like, this is their comfort show. And when I see people list out their comfort shows, I'm very proud to say the Office and How I Met yout Mother, I come up a lot as people's top two comfort shows. And I think it's because there's something immersive about the worlds of these two shows. There's something like very comforting about feeling about hanging out with your characters in the Office. There's something very comforting. And I said this, not having music and it's just the sounds of an office. It's very hypnotic. I feel so drawn into that world when I'm watching the Office and we hear from people who are like in their 20s or even teens now that say, I'm really happy because when I watch How I Met yout Mother, it makes me realize there's going to be a future of me telling this story and how lost I feel right now. It'll all make sense. I'll have a way of narrativizing this. I will have a narrative control over this material at some point in the future. And that's a comforting thing. That's a comforting Thing. Surviving. Surviving to become the future you. This all makes sense to in some way who survived it. And I think. I think I'm very proud to have written a comfort show. I think you guys have an amazing comfort show, and I think that's a real. That's probably the hugest compliment any TV show can get, right, Jenna, that's Cheers. Was that right to you? That was my comfort show. When that show ended, I remember it ended. The last episode ended, and I said to my mother and father, excuse me, I have to go to the backyard now. And I was 14 or 15, and I walked to the backyard and I just cried for, like 10 minutes, like, in the dark by myself. Because I was like, I won't have them next week. I don't get to go to that. I'm 15 years old, but I can't go to that bar anymore. And to create a show that is that for somebody, your guys show is that to so many people. And that is such a gift you've given the world. And it's a gift to be part of that creative experience. And we all understand, I think that we would not have had these shows without the incredible team that came together again like magic. And every variable had to be right. It had to be that Jim. It had to be that Pam. Josh had to be Ted, Kobe had to be Robin. Like, the number of variables, it's dauntingly infinite. How many things have to go right to create the show that becomes somebody's comfort show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I always feel like it's an abundance of riches, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It's also hard to remember, you know, certain days on set. I don't think people understand the hours and the rigor of, like, making filmed entertainment. It's so much longer than people realize. And you're there so long on these dusty, moldy soundstages, and you forget. I would forget sometimes that this thing was being beamed out all over the world. And we've traveled enough to know that these two shows have traveled the world, you know, and there's. I don't know, the intimacy and the small scale of the seeming small scale of the thing is juxtaposed against, you know, how vast the reach of the thing is. It's like, I used to not quite understand that, like, making a comedy that is also touching is like an actual public service. Like, we would die without stories. Like, we need stories. I don't want to overstate how important we are culturally, but I do think that there's something when people say, like, and this is one of the things we're interrogating on the show. When people say, you got me through my divorce, you got me through the death of a loved one, you were my only laughter in a really hard time. Like, man, what a great use of this thing you fell in love with in drama club or watching Cheers that you get to be the light for someone in a dark moment that has come back to me with new force about what we did on this show and what you guys did on yours.

[Angela Kinsey]

Definitely. As you get deeper into your podcast and your community grows and you hear from more and more people, it is truly humbling what the show means and continues to mean to people.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, thank you guys for showing us how to do a rewatch podcast. Honestly, you guys are the best at it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Awesome.

[Craig Thomas]

We're following in your footsteps. The idea that we put this little message in a bottle of making season one on our own and putting it out there and seeing what would happen, and the fact that that little bottle, like, drifted its way onto your guys island and you were like, come over here. It's great. And we have, like, we can, I don't know, just being welcomed into your guys fold has meant a lot to us. So thank you for inviting us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I just absolutely loved this and.

[Angela Kinsey]

We are so excited for you guys to be on the Office Ladies network.

[Jenna Fischer]

We are.

[Craig Thomas]

So are we.

[Josh Radnor]

We're thrilled. Please come back anytime. We're just Delighted to have LinkedIn up with you guys. And yeah, we love you. Thanks. So Jenna and Angela are still with us. Hey, guys. Hi. We wanted you to stick around so you could hear one of the many, many wonderful letters we get sent into the show. If you want to have a letter read on the show or even a voice note maybe to open the show, please go to how we madeyourmother.com, go up to contact. It should be pretty clear. You can either write us or speak to us. We love hearing from fans. It's really one of our favorite things about doing this show. Jenna and Angela also love hearing from fans.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, yeah, we have whole episodes called mailbag episodes because people send us wonderful things as well, like beautiful homemade items and stuff. I mean, it's. Our community is so warm and just.

[Angela Kinsey]

Has been with us from the beginning and all the way as we have figured out this whole podcasting thing.

[Announcer]

And I'll just say that you guys set this up during your episode really well. Just you guys talked about your international fan base, the idea of people using this show to get through hard times.

[Craig Thomas]

We're on Topper.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes, you set it up beautifully.

[Craig Thomas]

Take it away.

[Josh Radnor]

So this is today's letter. Just to set this up. For those of you who don't know the How I Met yout mother bar McLaren's the bar in the show is based on a bar in New york City called McGee's that Craig. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ewan Carter and the Letterman writers would go to this bar after a hard day's work on the David Letterman show. Okay, so here's our letter. Hi guys. So excited for this podcast. My name is Javiera and I must start by saying that I'm from Chile. Ted would know since he loves Neruda poems, so I'm sorry for any grammar mistakes. You asked about how Hymnum changed lives and I would like to share my story with you. I started watching the show around third season when I was in bed rest for a back injury. My sister rushed to see what happened to me because she thought she heard me crying. Turned out I was laughing my ass off. In 2016 I went to London to do a PhD. But two years later I had a serious life threatening health problem that led me to an emergency surgery and pretty bad ptsd. Afterwards. I stayed for a year in London before eventually having to quit the PhD program to work on my recovery. That year was hard beyond anything I could describe besides the pain. Every night I had panic attacks because of the flashbacks and because I was afraid to go to sleep. I felt really vulnerable because I was completely alone, an ocean and a whole different time zone between me and anyone who could take care of me or bring me calm. So to be able to sleep, I started playing How I met your Mother on my computer. Through the night I knew the voices, the stories. It felt like having the company of people I knew and it helped me to control my crisis. The show helped me to survive and to cope. Still does. Anyway, a year after I returned to Chile, I met a guy who asked me about my favorite TV show, you can guess. And he said he liked it a lot too, although I'm pretty sure it was also a strategy. Four years later in New York City, he asked me to marry him at McGee's and today he is my husband.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my gosh.

[Josh Radnor]

You ask about how the show changed my life. That doesn't even come near to describe what it has done and what it means to me.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh my God.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

That is one hell of an ad for McGee's, which is still open and serving delicious beer and food at 55th between Broadway and Greg's a part owner, obviously. Yeah. I've invested heavily. Most of my. How much money is tied up in that?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, thank you, Javier. That was so beautiful and, you know, almost like what Jenna was talking about earlier. Although I think it was on. On when we were guests on your podcast. But just this is the only moment I'm gonna brush shoulders with this one person on the earth. We don't know, like, if you've seen and fallen in love with how I met your mother. And, like, it's gonna change your life somehow, whether it changes your interior or it changes how you connect with your future husband. Like, we're affecting each other all the time, and I find that very moving.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And whether you're, like, on a TV show or not on a TV show or just going about your life, you never know your impact on someone else.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Could we have imagined, like, when you're. When you guys were kids watching, like, Diane Chambers on Cheers, or you were visiting America and just Angela soaking up a little bit of American TV before you went back to. Where was it? In Jakarta.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, to Jakarta and Little House on the Prairie.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, could you guys imagine, like, what would you say to yourselves, like, now, like, how do you convey that idea to past you that, like, someday the show will mean that to people, to strangers around the world? It's amazing, because I know the Office means that to so many millions of people.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, it's what I have in my head whenever I'm meeting fans. I imagine what it would have been like for me to meet Shelley Long.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And what that would have meant to me. And I realized that I'm on the other side of that now. And so I want to give former Jenna exactly what she would have wanted in that moment, because my love of Cheers and what it meant to me was very, very, very real. And so it's exciting for me. It's kind of. When you talk about parenting, like, in your life, if you become a parent now, you get to have the other side of the parent child relationship. You had the child one, and now you get to have the parent one. And so I get to kind of move places in the sort of, like, I guess fan. I don't know what the other position is, you know, creator, artist, relationship. And so, yeah, super famous TV star.

[Craig Thomas]

Just call yourself a super famous TV star.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a comfortable moniker.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're always so uncomfortable with that.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a beautiful analogy, that Parenthood One, because it's also just like, speaks to how. How nurturing you are in your relationship to fans. Like, with these. These letters we got, like, that's an amazingly beautiful story that we would. We would never have known that story prior to doing this podcast. So.

[Josh Radnor]

And. And my wife has said, the letters you're reading on the air and the people who call in and write in, that's 0.0001% of the stories. Like, there's so many stories that we'll never know that we're not gonna hear, but are very real, you know?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I feel that way too. When we read someone's letter and they'll start off with, I have no idea if you'll ever see this. And I think about them sitting somewhere writing that and pouring their heart out, not even knowing if we're gonna see it. And I'm just so incredibly grateful. I sit in a lot of gratitude.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we really read a lot of them that we then never even read.

[Josh Radnor]

So.

[Jenna Fischer]

We take that in. Angela and I will go into the podcasting office and we'll spread out. We get physical mail and we get digital mail and we'll sit and we'll trade letters and we'll say, oh, look at this person. They just graduated from nursing school. School. Like, we get the stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're invited to someone's wedding. Isn't. Look at their invitation. Isn't this amazing?

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, I've been invited to so many weddings.

[Craig Thomas]

People will dance.

[Josh Radnor]

People will dance.

[Angela Kinsey]

People will dance. Oh, people will dance.

[Josh Radnor]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Announcer]

How we made your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point D Blue Studios. Our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z master, is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own Josh Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we made your mother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse letters on Substack and check out his music and everything [e-mail] order Craig Thomas's debut novel, that's Not How It Happened, wherever books are sold. And check out his other published writings at Craig Thomas Thomas writer.com and you can subscribe to My own Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack. To learn more about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research, check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. People will, in fact, dance.

[Josh Radnor]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?