How We Sensory Deprivated [with Rob Greenberg]  | S2E14 "Monday Night Football"

Summary

Podcast Summary: How We Sensory Deprivated [with Rob Greenberg]

Podcast: How We Made Your Mother
Hosts: Josh Radnor & Craig Thomas
Guest: Rob Greenberg (writer/director)
Episode: S2E14: "Monday Night Football"
Date: February 2, 2026

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Overview:

This episode of "How We Made Your Mother" dives deep into the making of the How I Met Your Mother Season 2 episode “Monday Night Football,” featuring Rob Greenberg, a core consulting writer and director on the show. Josh and Craig, with Rob, reminisce about the writing and filming process, discuss the challenge of crafting a sitcom tied to broadcast calendar events, and reflect on why “Monday Night Football” is considered one of the series’ finest episodes. The conversation is filled with insider anecdotes, fond memories, creative process details, and a focus on the episode’s lasting emotional impact.

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Listener Engagement: Marriage Proposal & Reflections

[01:03]

• The episode opens with a listener, Michaela, sharing how she came to love HIMYM through her girlfriend, culminating in a surprise marriage proposal to Carmina live on the podcast.
  • Josh: “That was our first marriage proposal on the podcast, right?” [02:47]
  • Craig: “We’ll accept wedding invitations whenever you want to put them in the mail.” [03:38]
• Both hosts express heartfelt excitement and request a follow-up, setting a celebratory, personal tone for the episode.

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Welcoming Rob Greenberg: Early Days & Show Origins

[03:57]

• Craig introduces Rob Greenberg as an instrumental early supporter, highlighting his multi-camera sitcom expertise from "Frasier" that was core to HIMYM’s launch.
• Rob describes his first impressions on joining the team:
  • “I read the script and I liked it, and I met Carter and Craig and I liked them—and that was it. I didn’t read it five times, analyze it...” [07:15]
• Rob jokes about being "the adult in the room" for the young creators and recounts the serendipity and chemistry with the original creative team.
• Craig: “Rob, you really helped us...don’t let notes make you whittle down, sand away the edges of what make us special...Go down swinging.” [07:42]
• Rob explains his subversive approach; while officially appointed to “keep the young creators in line,” he actually encouraged preserving their unique storytelling.

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Directing “Monday Night Football”: Challenges & Creative Choices

Multi-Cam Sitcom Mastery

[08:46] – [15:15]

• Rob’s journey from consulting writer to director is discussed, including his first emergency directorial assignment when Pam Fryman was out sick.
• Technical differences between single-cam and multi-cam are explored:
  • Rob: “The directing actors are similar, but the camera parts are...I actually find single camera easier...Four camera, it’s a skill you need to learn.” [17:30]

Episode Context & Broadcast Logic

• The group recalls the strict timing of network sitcom releases:
  • Craig: “We were really tethered to this idea of hitting holidays, hitting moments, hitting seasons. It all had to match.” [13:55]
• “Monday Night Football” aired right after the Super Bowl, which informed the episode’s Super Bowl-centric plot.

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Inside “Monday Night Football”: Structure, Humor, and Legacy

Playing with Expectations

[15:22] – [20:00]

• The writers subverted expectations: instead of showing the friends at the Super Bowl, they're stuck missing it—turning a forced plot requirement into a story about traditions and togetherness.
  • Josh: “You make it about death and a funeral and all the things keeping them from the Super Bowl.” [15:22]
• Rob recalls the ease of directing the episode since “everyone knows what they’re doing—it’s a well-oiled machine.” [16:36]

Visual Gags & Production Memories

[20:05] – [23:11]

• Rob loved the “bells and whistles” of this episode: the 4-way split screen (a nod to "24"), casket point-of-view shots, and action-based comedic set pieces.
• A major stunt (Ted's flip) revealed behind-the-scenes realities: “There’s no trick, it just hurts...the stunt guy does it, lands on his back, and it hurts.” [20:43]
• Notable use of stand-in hand actors for Ted during the Sensory Deprivator scenes: “Those aren’t my hands.” [21:25]
• The gang reminisces about taping a promo with Emmitt Smith for Super Bowl cross-promotion.
  • Craig: “That was the promo that aired during the Super Bowl.” [22:20]
• Pop culture references like Janet Jackson’s Super Bowl moment and the now-antiquated TiVo “prayer” elicit laughter and nostalgia.

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What Makes the Episode Great? Character Moments, Tropes, and Heart

Memorable Lines & Comic Beats

[23:47] – [27:55]

• Neil Patrick Harris’s Barney characterized as a gambling addict; the “more Jewish / less Jewish” directorial direction for accentuating punchlines:
  • Rob: “That's a direction I use shockingly—more Jewish, less Jewish.” [23:56]
• Lily’s math class scenes ("It just went up to eight!") and the unsentimental depiction of a mischievous kid are favorite gags.

Thematic Depth & Enduring Resonance

[28:09] – [31:46]

• The trope of low-stakes situations treated with high-stakes intensity: “It's a kind of comedic trope to take something just triflingly unserious and make it such high stakes.” [28:09]
• Josh observes the episode's “journey not the destination” message, connecting it to a Whitman quote:
  • Josh: “We were together. I forget the rest.” [30:24]
• The writing team reflects on how each character's way of avoiding the Super Bowl outcome became a showcase for their personalities.

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Praise from Variety & Cultural Impact

The “Best Episode” & Nostalgia for Hanging Out

[33:26] – [41:56]

• Variety writer Andrew McGowan’s audio clip is played, naming “Monday Night Football” as his #1 HIMYM episode:
  • “It’s the time spent together that brings value to the tradition ... How I Met Your Mother is about a time in your life when friends serve as family.” [34:46]
• Discussion on the unique comfort of “hangout shows” and their emotional resonance in an era when in-person connection is less common.
  • Josh: “If any show is a hanging out show, How I Met Your Mother is a hanging out show.” [38:46]
• Reflection on the show's long-lasting popularity, especially its depiction of chosen family and analog camaraderie.
  • Craig: “It scratches an itch … something pleasurable about watching people face to face, care about each other, live life together, celebrate holidays and Super Bowls together.” [39:52]

The Journey Over Destination

• Both hosts emphasize that the “mother” was never the main point of the show. The journey, the friendships, and the moment-to-moment shared life are where the real value lies.

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Directorial Details & Behind the Scenes Gags

[42:03] – [48:46]

• Rob shares specific scene details, like the “Airplane”-inspired moment of Ted in the bar with the Sensory Deprivator and Craig pitching Ted’s ridiculous overthinking as a character trait.
• The challenges and fun of orchestrating complex transitions in multi-story sitcom shoots are described in detail ("moving the whole crew down to New York street...").
• Playful banter recalls Josh’s reluctance at having to do extra on-set work for visual gags, but also the enjoyment in seeing them land comedically.
• Josh notes the joy in getting to be just as big an idiot as the other characters, balancing out his usual romantic-hero role.

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Gratitude, Reflection, and Listener Letters

[48:53] – [54:57]

• The group expresses gratitude for the show's camaraderie, with Josh and Craig crediting Rob for bringing levity and adult guidance to the early days.
  • Rob: “Smile, your life is going so much better than you ever thought it would.” [49:47]
• Listener Alex from Serbia sends a letter describing HIMYM as a lifelong companion—a “time capsule” of “spending time with each other and not on screens.” [53:51]
• Rob is credited as a major creative influence: “It's hard for me to think of HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER without you as a huge part of it. And I'm so glad you were there that first day.” [54:29]

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Notable Quotes

• Rob Greenberg on choosing HIMYM:
  “I didn't read it five times, analyze it. I didn't do any of that.” [07:15]
• Craig Thomas on Rob’s early influence:
  “You were a good believer in what was special about it... go down swinging.” [07:42]
• Josh Radnor on the show’s heart:
  “We were together. I forget the rest.” [30:24] (quoting Whitman)
• Andrew McGowan (Variety):
  “It's about a time in one's young adulthood when friends serve as family, and the most important memories are not necessarily defined by the headlined events, but rather by who you share them with.” [34:46]
• Rob on directing:
  “All I did was get handed great actors and a great script.” [48:46]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Listener Proposal: [01:03] – [03:44]
• Rob Joins/Show Origins: [03:52] – [08:42]
• Directing Transition & Multicam Challenges: [08:46] – [17:30]
• "Monday Night Football" Writing Process & Airing: [13:31] – [15:06]
• On Visual Gags & Stunts: [20:05] – [21:50]
• Discussion of Show’s Enduring Themes: [28:09] – [32:08]
• Variety's Episode Ranking & Analysis: [33:26] – [37:38]
• Reflections on Nostalgia and Social Connection: [38:01] – [41:56]
• Memorable Production Anecdotes: [44:06] – [48:50]
• Listener Letter (Alex from Serbia): [51:25] – [53:51]
• Episode Closer & Gratitude: [54:22] – [54:57]

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Tone & Style

The episode is warm, collegial, and full of affectionate ribbing, balancing laugh-out-loud production stories with thoughtful reflections on friendship, connection, and creative legacy. While Josh and Craig keep the mood lively and irreverent (“It was the perfect amount of Jewish this episode”), Rob provides honest, often self-deprecating insight into both his craft and his role as part of the show's family.

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Final Thoughts

"How We Sensory Deprivated" is both a deep-dive for HIMYM fans and a meditation on what made the show (and this episode) more than the sum of its plot points. The thoughtful blend of behind-the-scenes memories, meta-commentary, and listener engagement reiterate the core thesis: it’s not about who won the game—it’s about the friends who watched it together.

Transcript

[Craig Thomas]

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[Michaela (Listener/Caller)]

Hi Josh and Craig. My name is Michaela and I have been watching himyim for nine years because of my beautiful girlfriend Carmina. Before meeting her, I hadn't seen the show at all. I had no idea what it was about and honestly at first I thought it was a little bit difficult to watch, mainly with the Barney character being so horrifying to women. But over the years I've grown to love Eve and Barney and the show and it's a regular everyday part of our lives and we watch it quite literally every single day. I really resonate with Ted because he blurted out I love you so quickly and I think I blurted out I love you to her on like our third or fifth date or something. I also wanted to give a little shout out to Josh's wife. Being a therapist, she's so cool. I love hearing her takes on how I met your mother because they are just so, so interesting. And I'm also a therapist, so it's nice to hear that perspective too. Yeah. And I wanted to say to Carmina, you're good looking, you're funny, you're smart. Now would you frickin marry me already?

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Well, hello and welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother. I'm Josh Radner. I'm joined by my friend Craig Thomas. Hey, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

We are making our way through How I Met yout Mother, a series that we collaborated on for many years. Years ago, I played Ted Mosby on that show. Craig co created the show with Carter Bayes. But we're also making history on the pod today because I believe that was our first marriage proposal on the podcast. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

That was a marriage proposal on the podcast. And that's what just happened.

[Josh Radnor]

Was it that just. Coming up where we're waiting. How are we going to know?

[Craig Thomas]

I know. How will we know?

[Josh Radnor]

And also, like, when does this air versus when do we get. Like, we're way ahead of the story. Like, we know. This is a strange thing. We know way more longer than Carmina will know this.

[Craig Thomas]

Carmina. We're going to be sitting on this for like a month and a half.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know how we're going to keep it to ourselves, but we hope.

[Craig Thomas]

We hope.

[Josh Radnor]

That was a great way to receive a marriage proposal. We're thrilled. Thank you.

[Craig Thomas]

Would you please tell us what happens? You got to follow up.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, we need a follow up.

[Craig Thomas]

We need visuals and videos. We need. We'll accept our wedding invitations whenever you want to put them in the mail.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, And a video of her hearing. That would be terrific. Anyway, you know, we always have. We often have very special episodes of How We Made your Mother.

[Rob Greenberg]

But.

[Josh Radnor]

But today, very, very special episode of How We Made youe Mother.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Very special guest. I don't know how you're gonna top this special guest. It started with a proposal. It's all downhill from here. But we have one of the greats. And I'll introduce this gentleman because he was one of the earliest believers in How I Met yout Mother. He was on the pilot with Carter and I. He's a wonderful writer, a wonderful director, and he directed the episode we're gonna be talking about today, too. Ladies and gentlemen, one of my best friends, Rob Greenberg.

[Josh Radnor]

Rob.

[Rob Greenberg]

Hi, Josh. Hi, Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Hi.

[Rob Greenberg]

Nice to see you. Thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Sorry all the thunder was stolen by the wedding, the marriage proposed.

[Rob Greenberg]

But she did say marry me already, so I don't know if it's the first time. It's.

[Craig Thomas]

You're gonna parse this now. You're gonna ruin this moment.

[Rob Greenberg]

That's why you brought me back.

[Josh Radnor]

The third time's a charm. Yeah. Rob, you. Now, when I met Carter, Craig, and Pam in that room on that rainy day 20 some years ago, I also met you that day. You were in that room at those original auditions and as we have established with the lore that I was the very first person you guys saw on the very first day. Do you have a lot. It's like strong memories of that?

[Rob Greenberg]

I do, yeah, I do. I said, look, I'm not a fan. I was very vocal.

[Craig Thomas]

You were, you were clowning for him.

[Rob Greenberg]

I was all in like everybody else. Yes, I was there. I was there that day.

[Josh Radnor]

But were you. I mean, Craig, this might be a question for you too, but were you like assigned as the adult for these young preschoolers who had their first TV show on the air?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yes.

[Rob Greenberg]

They needed an adult.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Rob Greenberg]

And somehow I was on the list and we met and hit it off and. Yes. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And can you give us a little bit of your background in television? I know you came from. You were on Frasier for many years, is that right?

[Rob Greenberg]

I was on Frasier for many years and I did a bunch of pilots and I, I don't. I guess I was directing and writing in various shows. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I think I was on. I was, I was on an overall deal at Warner Brothers.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you were not under a deal. You were not under a deal.

[Rob Greenberg]

And we met at Coral Tree on San Vicente.

[Craig Thomas]

We did. That was our meet cute. We had our meet cute at a cute little cafe on San Vicente in Brentwood, which you. You are a specialist in making sure people come very close to where you live. You do not like, drive. I just had dinner with Rob a few weeks ago in la and it was two minutes from his.

[Rob Greenberg]

It just.

[Craig Thomas]

He makes it happen.

[Rob Greenberg]

Laughing. Guilty of Sean.

[Craig Thomas]

And Rob. I mean, you had us beat by having ever worked on a multi camera sitcom which Carter and I had not. And I think basically the studio looked at these two 30 year old guys who. We looked five.

[Josh Radnor]

You were 29.

[Craig Thomas]

You looked so young. I know. And they said, we need an adult and Frasier was a huge hit and everyone loves you anyway. And they said, Rob. And we met a few different people, if I'm being honest. But we didn't. We loved you. We fell in love. It was a clique in just the same way that it was with Pam. It was just like, again, we just found all the right, perfect people. Very early on, it was really.

[Rob Greenberg]

Did you meet with more people after you met with me or before you met with me?

[Craig Thomas]

We got a lot of no's and then we doubled back to you.

[Josh Radnor]

All right, all right, Rob, can you, if you can cast your memory back that far, but like, do you remember reading the pilot and what your first impressions were and also what you thought when you met Craig and Carter?

[Rob Greenberg]

I. You know, the truth is, I don't think a lot about it. I kind of shoot from my gut. I read the script and I liked it, and I met Carter and Craig and I liked them, and I was it. Yeah, that was it. I didn't read it five times, analyze it. I didn't do any of that.

[Josh Radnor]

It's very, very strange behavior from a Jewish man to not overthink things, but this is why we love you.

[Rob Greenberg]

Exactly. It felt very easy that way.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Rob Greenberg]

And I said no to a lot of things, so it was this one I liked.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Well, you were a good believer in what was special about it. And you always said, don't let them. Don't let notes make you whittle down, sand away the edges of what makes us special. You said, go down swinging. Keep this special. Keep this interesting. Keep the storytelling unique and singular. And you really helped us in that way, Rob, because we were so new, we had never gone through the pilot process.

[Rob Greenberg]

Well, I've been through many pilot processes on my own, and my friends. And you can see it get derailed during the process, and my job was not to let you get it derailed.

[Josh Radnor]

But isn't it funny that the studio extends. Assigned you to kind of keep them, you know, playing by the company rules, but you were actually like, don't listen to these people.

[Rob Greenberg]

Nothing if not subversive. That's me.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you really were. And, Rob, you were on with us many, many years, in the writers room, mostly. But in season two, you started also directing. You were in the room on and off for all of those years. How many years were you on the show total?

[Rob Greenberg]

I was on. I was consulting for six years. For six years.

[Craig Thomas]

And then you would still direct now and again even after you left consulting. You're the only other director of How I Met yout Mother that really directed a solid handful or two of episodes besides Pam Freyman. Do you want to talk about, like? So in season two, you started direct to direct episodes. I think Monday Night Football was maybe your second or third. The first one you tagged in literally, because Pam got sick. One week in the entire nine years. That never happened. But our in house director got sick and, like, just had to go home on, like a Tuesday, like right in the middle. Right the day before we were starting to shoot, and you literally stepped in. You went down from the writer's room, tagged and took the baton and just started Directing the episode that was your auspicious first one. I forget what episode that was.

[Rob Greenberg]

It just shows what little the director does. It's a well rolled machine, well oiled machine. Everyone knows what they're doing. Just get out of the way and make sure it doesn't go off the rails.

[Craig Thomas]

Which one was that, Rob? Was that like the second episode of season two? Like Scorpion and the Toad, maybe?

[Rob Greenberg]

Scorpion and the Toad. Yeah, I think I did Scorpion and the Toad. I did Columns and then I did this one in the first episode.

[Josh Radnor]

So you did two in a row. So Columns and this one were back to back?

[Rob Greenberg]

They were back to back, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Well, they aired back to back, Rob.

[Josh Radnor]

I have a very strong memory of. It might have been like season five. What was the episode with Peter Bogdanovich and Michael York where Ted goes to the party. Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. Peter Bogdanovich, obviously this iconic film director. And I'm reciting Dante's Inferno, the opening lines of Dante's Inferno in Italian.

[Rob Greenberg]

And then. And then we started shooting.

[Craig Thomas]

How dare you?

[Josh Radnor]

How dare you. But I see Rob go over to Peter Bogdanovich and say, can you give him a frame him up?

[Rob Greenberg]

That was Carter.

[Josh Radnor]

That was Carter. That wasn't you.

[Rob Greenberg]

Carter whispered to me and said, have him do the. Have him do the movie thing.

[Craig Thomas]

Do the fingerprints.

[Rob Greenberg]

It was Perfect. That was 100% Carter.

[Craig Thomas]

But the other thing was, I always.

[Rob Greenberg]

Attribute it to you, but Bogdanovich, you know, is intimidating to direct the. A legendary director. And the very first thing we shot was him in the elevator for the tag.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Rob Greenberg]

And I forget what he was doing. He was, you know, he was saying.

[Craig Thomas]

The name Willem Dafoe. Like a frog.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah. So he said, of course.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really what it was.

[Rob Greenberg]

And we set it up and he calls me over, we set up the camera, we're all ready to go. And then he calls me over and goes, don't you want to put the camera closer? It was like, that's the first thing he said to me. And I was like, oh, I don't think I do. But now I do.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you have to. At that point. It's fucking Peter Bogdanovich.

[Rob Greenberg]

I don't think he's used to, like, the zoom lenses.

[Josh Radnor]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

And now back to the show. So Doug, who's subbing in for our he's our Alec today. Tell us when this episode aired. Okay, Season 2 Episode 14 Monday Night Football released February 5, 2007. This episode was written by Craig Thomas and Carter Bass.

[Craig Thomas]

I wonder if this was aired the Monday right after the super bowl had aired. And that's why we planned. We planned it that way. I wish that would have been a great thing for me to have researched ahead of time. When was Doug? So you can find out. When was the super bowl that year? Was this literally the Monday after the super bowl and therefore it was like absolutely.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean we've talked about this, how, how linked we were to like the changing of the seasons and the holidays. Like that is just not a thing anymore.

[Craig Thomas]

I know it's 10 episodes of someone come out, you watch them whatever the fuck you want. We were really, it's almost hard to explain that to like to the Youngs today. We were really tethered to this idea of like hitting holidays, hitting moments, hitting seasons. It all had to match the networks really like that to promote it and you were right. What do you got, Doug? When did it air?

[Josh Radnor]

Sunday, February 4th.

[Craig Thomas]

It was the Monday after the Super Bowl. So it was well planned. We planned. We were smart, and it was the perfect episode to do.

[Josh Radnor]

Was the super bowl on CBS that year? I mean, I wonder. It was probably.

[Craig Thomas]

I think it was, because I think the show might have got promoted on there. And that's part of why we had the idea to do this. Or maybe we were told, you're doing a Super bowl episode. I think we had been encouraged to do that. And then we're like, how do we. Encouraged. Contractually obligated is another way. And I remember, like, I don't. I'm not a football fan, really, if I'm honest. And I remember thinking, how the fuck are we gonna come up with an episode about the Super Bowl? But in so many ways, we've done this where you think, how do I do a New Year's Eve episode? And the answer was, in season one, they never get to the New Year's Eve party. You don't even attempt to do New Year's Eve. You do them. Missing New Year's Eve kind of did the same thing here. We had them missing, essentially, the super bowl, and that was the story. What do you got, Doug?

[Josh Radnor]

And. And yes, it was cbs. Bears and the Colts.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it was probably the biggest promotion. We probably got a promo and a Super bowl. If we did a Super bowl episode, and that was a big deal for us.

[Rob Greenberg]

Did we get tickets? Was the real question.

[Craig Thomas]

I can assure you we did not. Two and a Half Men got tickets.

[Josh Radnor]

Exactly. Well, it's. That's a really clever way. I mean, it's funny to think about, like, how do you write a Super bowl episode when you're not in Super Bowl? Well, you make it about death and a funeral and, you know, all the things that are keeping them from the Super Bowl.

[Craig Thomas]

Actually seeing it, I was really struck.

[Josh Radnor]

In this episode by the construction of it. So before the cold open, you get the first half premise, which is like, we can't watch the super bowl because this guy we barely know died and we have to go to this funeral. So it's such, like, quick, swift storytelling. And then the second bit is, the super bowl happened, and now we're going to try to not learn who won so we can all watch it together and preserve this tradition.

[Craig Thomas]

I'd forgotten the detail where they get essentially kidnapped by a very drunk Carl the bartender. That was a delightful surprise. I'd forgotten that that's what keeps them till 2:30 in the morning. Yeah, that was very amusing to me. Rob, what was it like directing this episode? Let's get into it. Let's. Because you got thrown to the wolves on that first episode where you were literally break. You were there. Break glass in case of emergency. Rob comes out, Pam goes homesick columns was the first real one that you were just like brought in. And then by this one. Did this feel like, okay, I've got my sea legs doing this now. This is kind of your third one. The first one has an asterisk.

[Rob Greenberg]

I mean. Yeah. And I also on stage a lot prior to this anyway as a writer or as a. And so it was all felt like home. It was easy that way. I liked everybody, I knew everybody. It was. You're just. And it's all. It is a well oiled machine. And you know, if I stayed in my office, it probably would look pretty similar. And I know that and, and so I honor that. And there's an incredible template and you kind of just do the template and you add your. You can try to add a little here and there, but it is, it's well written and it's pretty clear on the page.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

These were your first big episodes of network tv. You directed. Right. How do you. You maybe you, you. You were just starting to direct.

[Rob Greenberg]

I had directed. I had directed a bunch of single cam. This was my first four cam.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay. Right, right. Of course you had even done your own.

[Josh Radnor]

Was that a tough transition or. Not much at all. Just because it's.

[Rob Greenberg]

There are very different skill. I mean the camera parts are different skill sets.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Rob Greenberg]

The directing actors are similar, but the camera parts are. I actually find single camera easier in the four camera. It's a skill that you need to learn and I think once you learn it, it's easier. But it's like there's a learning curve on it.

[Craig Thomas]

Right.

[Rob Greenberg]

Because there's a lot happening at once and you're just gotta know where to look.

[Josh Radnor]

Right. Rob, can you tell us like. Like how you found your way into like writers rooms? Like what was your. What's the, the Cliff Notes version of like how you got to where you got.

[Rob Greenberg]

I wrote, I went to. I mean the whole history, the whole thing. I went to drama school. I went to drama school as a set designer and then I started directing and I wanted to direct movies and I know didn't have any idea how. So I started directing. I was directing a lot of my friends plays and I was telling them, oh, I think you should rewrite it this way. And they never Would. So then I said, oh, I better start writing. And I started with, I started with sitcoms because they were shorter and more kind of bite size. And I wrote a couple of specs, and I got onto Fraser pretty quickly and luckily and easily.

[Josh Radnor]

So just from spec scripts you had written?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow. Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a good first gig.

[Rob Greenberg]

And the truth is, I wrote a Seinfeld that I rewrote five times. It took about a year to write, and if I told anybody that, nobody would have hired me. And then I was working on a second one. Those days you needed two specs. I was working on a Frasier, actually, and I was four months into that, and I had the meeting. Oh, I went with. I went to the Diane English show.

[Craig Thomas]

Love and War.

[Rob Greenberg]

And I went into the meeting and said, we like this. Can you get it? Can you write? If I give you two weeks, can you write another spec script? I did not tell her I was four months into another spec script, and I said, two weeks. That's hard, but I'll try. And so that's what I did.

[Craig Thomas]

I heard you tell this story on the Love and War Rewatch podcast.

[Josh Radnor]

Rob, it's, it's hard for me to think about you doing any other job. Like, the way you were on set. I was just like, like, speaking of an accountant, like, I couldn't see you going to an office job or doing anything.

[Craig Thomas]

Kind of respect.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, you just seem like a guy who should be showing up and thinking of funny things to put on screen.

[Rob Greenberg]

Like, that's. Then I found, I found my cohort.

[Josh Radnor]

No, you really did. You really did. And you married a writer also, so.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yes. Who also does funny things. Yeah, we just walk around the house being fucking hilarious.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. All day long. All day.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, so then you directing this one.

[Rob Greenberg]

I like this one because it also had a lot, it had a lot of bells and whistles and it had some visual stuff, so I, I, that's what I like the most. So it was fun to do it in that sense.

[Craig Thomas]

I really liked the quad split. Speaking of, like, the quad split was great. The, the skill of directing multicam is having a big screen with four boxes in it. And we kind of owned that and did that as a device on this, which is kind of like a nod to 24, I guess, would do stuff like that. The show 24, that was a fun bell and whistle. And there was a lot of, like, the point of view up from the.

[Josh Radnor]

Casket point of view, also from the Ted's mask.

[Craig Thomas]

Was that sensory deprivated? Yeah. There was some fun stuff. You had a stunt. You had a flipping. Not Josh Radner, but kind of looked like Josh Radner.

[Josh Radnor]

It did look like me. I mean, Jordana said, how did you do that?

[Craig Thomas]

Really good.

[Josh Radnor]

And I said, I don't believe I did that.

[Rob Greenberg]

The thing about that, that was fun. I learned. The stunt guy came in and he said, we worked it all out. And then the stunt guy does it, and there's no trick. It just hurts. That was. That was the thing that was shocking. The guy just lands on his back and it hurts.

[Craig Thomas]

And then it didn't get it right.

[Rob Greenberg]

He had to do it again. And everyone's like, oh, I'm like, grumbling. And then we did it again.

[Josh Radnor]

But then the stunt guys are always like, all right, cool, let's do it. Let's do this incredibly painful thing again.

[Rob Greenberg]

This poor guy hurts. The old guy just says, yeah, you're doing this one.

[Craig Thomas]

And he looks at me like, all.

[Rob Greenberg]

Right, I'll do it.

[Josh Radnor]

Not only did I notice that it was a stunt guy, but in the construction of the sensory deprivator, I said to Jordana, those aren't my hands. We got a stunt guy for my hands.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really funny. What were you doing that day? We couldn't get your hands.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

No idea.

[Rob Greenberg]

Oh, no, because the camera guy's right there. It's probably the camera guy had to reach out with his own hand.

[Josh Radnor]

But they also had. They had wisps of, like, what looked like my hair kind of in the top of the frame.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really weird. I don't remember it that way at all. That's really funny.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. I'm certain they weren't my hands. I can confirm that I know what they look like. Yeah. Any other strong memories, Rob, from. From directing this episode?

[Rob Greenberg]

I had a memory, and this is this crazy. I thought. Did we. At one point. What's the football guy's name? Em. Em.

[Josh Radnor]

Em.

[Rob Greenberg]

Did we tackle him? Was there a bit where we tackled him? I could have sworn we tackled him. That is 100% my memory of it.

[Craig Thomas]

I think we shot a promo for the episode with him where maybe that's tackling. That's what it was.

[Rob Greenberg]

So you did.

[Craig Thomas]

You're not.

[Rob Greenberg]

I remember I got the direction.

[Craig Thomas]

Tackling Emmett Smith.

[Josh Radnor]

Was it all five of us tackling him, or was it just Neil?

[Rob Greenberg]

Something like that. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I think it was all of us.

[Craig Thomas]

And that was the promo that aired during the Super Bowl.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah. There you go. I knew I remembered that.

[Josh Radnor]

And remind me. I. I'm Just now remembering this. Did he say dance? Because he had just won Dancing with the Stars.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

There's a bunch. There are a few things in here that you're like, what the fuck was that again? There's a little more topicality in this one than there are in some others. Like the reference to, like, the Janet Jackson Jackson thing.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, that's funny. That's funny.

[Craig Thomas]

That's. That was funny. People still know that. Yeah, I think that people know that.

[Josh Radnor]

That'S entered the cultural kind of lexicon. Old tech flag, though. Prayer over TiVo.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. The TiVo prayer.

[Rob Greenberg]

That.

[Craig Thomas]

That made me sad a little bit. I was like, oh, boy. TiVo. Yeah, it's great. I love the bit. It was a great. You guys did it great. But it was like, ah, that's. That's old tech. That's what the office ladies say. They say old tech alert. So we're stealing that from that.

[Rob Greenberg]

Emmett Smith said that he was recognized way more for Dancing with the Stars than he was for being a Hall of Fame football player. That was a little tidbit.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. And that was like a rival show that was, like, kicking our ass. So I know it's probably pained us a little to reference them at all, but anyway. But I forgot. It took me a second watching that. I was like, oh, is that what that was? Right? He was on Dancing with the stars. 19 years later, that reference doesn't totally hold up, but here we are.

[Rob Greenberg]

And then my only other strong memory was when Neil is. Is handcuffed to the radiator and he says, am I in my bookie? He bookie. He worries.

[Craig Thomas]

He worries.

[Rob Greenberg]

And I remember 100%. It was like, more Jewish. No, a little less Jewish. Right there. That was. And I use that direction.

[Craig Thomas]

Twisting the Yiddish dial.

[Rob Greenberg]

I always do more Jewish, less Jewish. I use it shockingly.

[Josh Radnor]

It's actually your only direct, your only direction.

[Rob Greenberg]

Exactly. And louder, quieter.

[Josh Radnor]

That's it. I will say I always hit the sweet spot. Exactly. He did.

[Craig Thomas]

He worries. Was really good. That was really funny. It's a very physical episode. There's a lot of running around and insane, like, stunts. And that little kid extorting Marshall was really funny.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I. I actually. Really. One thing I really liked about that little kid and sometimes with. With Lily's classroom, like, the. The little kid humor was, like, pretty unsentimental. Like, this kid's quite evil.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, he's not a good little saint. Boy.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

He's like, scheming little kid.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think it's funny to be super unsentimental about that stuff.

[Craig Thomas]

And, yeah, that's a young Stephen Miller. Yeah, I think it's a young Stephen Lloyd.

[Josh Radnor]

It could also be.

[Rob Greenberg]

He was a good kid. That kid was good.

[Craig Thomas]

He was really funny. Rob, I feel like this was your joke, because Rob, of course, is also a writer and would come in and pitch up the Carter and I wrote this episode. I don't think we wrote this joke. The thing where the kid says, you know, $10 and Marshall demures. And the kid goes, it just went up to eight. It's one of my favorite jokes.

[Rob Greenberg]

I love that. I love that joke. I don't know if it's mine, but.

[Craig Thomas]

I did love it.

[Josh Radnor]

Such a good joke.

[Rob Greenberg]

It's a good joke.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a dream joke. I don't think we wrote that. I remember being jealous. Like, I wish that was our joke.

[Josh Radnor]

You have to really. That's a joke.

[Craig Thomas]

Lily's bad at math. Lily's bad at teaching math. The joke there is. Lily's not teaching math very well.

[Josh Radnor]

That could fly by you, that joke. But it's so funny.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, totally.

[Rob Greenberg]

And I think I remember with that kid. That kid was great. But I basically told Jason, just direct him. Jason and him weren't sitting there. I said, while you're sitting alone. And Jason basically directed him. He was great.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, that's funny.

[Rob Greenberg]

That's always a good way with kids. I think the actor, if they connect that they can. They can do more than I.

[Josh Radnor]

It also means less work for you. So it was like, pretty.

[Rob Greenberg]

Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You're just back there at the monitor yelling, more Jewish or less Jewish?

[Rob Greenberg]

Exactly.

[Josh Radnor]

To the kid.

[Craig Thomas]

He's like, I don't know what you mean. I don't know. It feels wrong.

[Rob Greenberg]

And then I hear Jason whispering, more Jewish.

[Josh Radnor]

It just went up the eight. I thought our oversized suits were really funny. We looked like we were signing for the NBA draft.

[Craig Thomas]

That was. Yeah, that was really funny. You know what struck me at the beginning of this episode? All of a sudden, our cast for just, like, one act of the show is Seinfeld. They don't give a shit about this guy who died.

[Josh Radnor]

Right?

[Craig Thomas]

They don't know who he was. Like, I was like, this is. This is a Seinfeld bit. It was funny because usually we're such an emo show. It's so heartfelt, but these guys had no idea who this guy who died was, and they just want to not go to the funeral. I was like this feel almost not like our gang at the very beginning. It was funny, but it was, like, a little darker than we expected.

[Josh Radnor]

The coffin shot of them recognizing him and remembering who he was is fantastic.

[Craig Thomas]

Really funny. Well directed, Rob.

[Rob Greenberg]

That's a real old school bit. My specialty.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, so all of the various bells and whistles, was this the hardest one you had directed of the three? Because I feel like Columns was a little more straightforward. Scorpion of the Toad was a lot of talking at bars and stuff. This had a lot more.

[Rob Greenberg]

The bells and whistles are more. More fun and fun for me than like a big party scene where everyone's talking around. I love all that. The bells and whistle. The more filmic. The more filmic stuff is where I love the most.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and it worked great. I had not watched this episode in a really long time. I forgot. I'd forgotten things about it. Even though we wrote it, Carter and I. It really moves. It really cooks, this episode. You really feel the ticking clock. You really feel like there's real stakes and. And we. It's funny because then you remember it's just them watching a TiVoed Super Bowl. The stakes aren't that high, but it feels, like very tense and suspenseful. And I think you did a great job keeping that energy kind of like a live wire through the whole episode. You kept energy up. What was that like? Because three day shoot and you have to play it all like an action movie with a ticking clock. What was that?

[Rob Greenberg]

I don't remember that, but I think it was on the page and it was in the editing and the actors were great, but I think a lot of that was editing and Chris editing it.

[Craig Thomas]

But good music, too. It had good, like, 24, like, hour drama kind of music.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's also. It's a. It's a kind of comedic trope to. To take something just triflingly unserious or. The stakes are so low and make it such high stakes.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, that's my favorite trope. Yeah, I love it.

[Josh Radnor]

But there. But there is something underneath Ted's. You know, we talk a lot about, like, vertical family versus horizontal family. And this is like. I don't know if you'd heard this, Rob, but I heard that all TV is about family. Like, everything is about family on television. Sopranos is about family. You know, Cheers is about family. Frasier's about family. And this show is about people who choose family. They choose who their family is. So there's something in Ted's obsession with this tradition. Even though he blacked out the first time he declared it was going to be a tradition. But this idea that, like, we have to do this together. I could make the argument that, at least from Ted's perspective, this is meaningful in a much deeper way, Even though you can kind of shrug it off. It's just the Super Bowl.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it is meaningful. And I thought the ending. I thought it was poignant at the end. I really liked Bob Saget at the end of this episode. The narration. Bob was just doing good narration acting at the end. And I liked his take on not remembering who won the game. There's something so great about this episode that's all about who won the game. And then future Ted says, I don't remember. And we never say. We never talk about it.

[Josh Radnor]

I will say that Jordana, my wife, who. It's so funny. We've recently gotten a number of letters and comments from people, including the opening letter today. Because Jordana, if you've noticed, hasn't been doing. Her therapist observes, watches How I Met yout Mother for the first time. And we revealed in, I think, two episodes ago that we had a baby a couple weeks ago. So Jordana has taken leave, maternity leave, from her duties on this podcast. But I will say she probably would have, if she was doing one this week. She would have probably used this quote, which she leaned over to me at the end of the episode, and she reminded me there's a Whitman quote that is actually on a bench in Fort Greene that we pass all the time. Fort Greene park. And it's from Leaves of Grass. And it simply says, we were together. I forget the rest. And to me, that's kind of what this episode is. We were together. I forget the rest.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, the details don't matter. It's about the camaraderie, even the attempt, you know, to.

[Andrew McGowan (Variety Writer)]

To.

[Josh Radnor]

To.

[Craig Thomas]

To.

[Josh Radnor]

To have this shared experience together. That's what Ted's trying to create is a shared experience. But I also loved. And we talk about this Craig. Like, so the thought experiment is they each have to not learn the score of the Super Bowl. What does that look like for Ted? What does that look like for Barney? What does that look like for Marshall? What does that look like for Robin? Yeah, so you have. You have Robin and the. You know, on the local news, like, how does. How does that play out with her? Yeah, you know, Lily in the classroom with Marshall. How does that play out? Like, I imagine that's a really fun thing in a writer's room, like, to craft each version of that story.

[Craig Thomas]

It is. I remember being very fun to crack that and I remember rewatching it now. It was like Marshall's is the biggest reach. There's no reason Marshall had to be in Lily's classroom.

[Josh Radnor]

This is her show and tell. Which I thought was really funny.

[Craig Thomas]

Which is. Yeah, that was really funny. And the idea that he's gonna hide out there. Cause that's a safe space. We're not gonna be talking about the Super Bowl. I guess that worked. That one felt like a little bit of a reach. Cause I was doing the same calculus. I was like, what did we do for everybody? It was a fun puzzle to crack. Marshall's a little forced, but we knew he liked the bit of the kid extorting him. So we'. All right, we're just going to pretend this makes any sense. And it puts him with Lily.

[Rob Greenberg]

You just wanted him to spray apple juice on the kid's crotch. And you worked. And you worked backwards from there.

[Josh Radnor]

That's where you.

[Rob Greenberg]

The entire episode came from. That moment.

[Josh Radnor]

And then the network said it has to be a Super bowl episode. So you.

[Rob Greenberg]

Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

They're like, all right, why would he be doing that to a kid? We reverse engineered it. That's really funny. Yeah, that was the one that I was like. We reached for that one a little bit, but it was so funny.

[Josh Radnor]

It felt like sitcom live logic. That made sense to me.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, he kind of goes by like, all right, I'm in.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. I thought the. The guy who played the. It wasn't Sandy Rivers, but the guy who played the anchor with Kobe did a great job.

[Craig Thomas]

He was funny. He did a really good job. I don't remember.

[Rob Greenberg]

I'm blanking on his doocy is his name. Yeah, he was. He was the. I. I used to know him. He's a good guy. Funny. He was great.

[Josh Radnor]

He was great. He was great. That whole. That whole newsroom sequence really worked well. I thought it's so funny.

[Rob Greenberg]

That was fun. I mean, and directing wise, it was fun. The guys, the news guys had it like, oh, how to improvise with the camera.

[Josh Radnor]

I did like how the camera just was a character in the scene.

[Rob Greenberg]

They were trying to play catch up basically. Right. Because it wasn't. It wasn't going as planned.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, the shitty pan over to the weather guy and it's a green screen and that's eating a donut. The weather map fills in at a certain point behind him as he's eating the donut. That was. That was you. You got to direct the hell out of this one. Because all of that, all of those bits about the Timing of how that camera is moving, the news camera. It really was well orchestrated.

[Josh Radnor]

I liked. I also liked the rewritten stuff for Robin when she's just generically talking about the winning team and the delicacy. That was great. And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you. New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now commercial. End of commercials. Back to show. One thing that we discovered I think recently, probably before we even or after we booked you to come on Rob, is this episode. And Doug, I'm going to throw to a clip here. This episode was selected when we Variety did a piece when we had 20 years, 20 years since the pilot, which was in September. Variety did a piece where they did the top 20 episodes. The top 20 funniest or most beloved episodes according to this one writer Andrew McGowan. And he chose this one as his top because it exhibited, I guess, the platonic ideal of what a How I Met yout Mother episode was to him.

[Rob Greenberg]

And that may or may not be my pen name, but yeah, we've never met Andrew McGowan. Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

And we have a clip. Here is Andrew McGowan. Let's decide if it sounds like Rob doing a voice. I don't think it will, but there's always that chance. We have a clip. Andrew heard we were doing this and he wanted to weigh in and explain why he selected it as his top choice. So let's listen to variety writer Andrew McGowan. Hi, Craig.

[Andrew McGowan (Variety Writer)]

Hi, Josh. Hi, Alec. And hi, Rob. A belated congratulations on 20 years since the premiere of How I Met yout Mother. For the milestone anniversary, I had the pleasure of revisiting the show and ranking the top 20 episodes for variety. The criteria was not an exact science, but I brought weighed each episode based on its writing, direction, premise, humor, heart and message. While there were many episodes that pained me not to include on the list, I think that I always knew that Monday Night Football would top it. The episode, I believe, epitomizes How I Met yout Mother at its best. It's sort of a timeless episode, one that a seasoned fan of the show and a newcomer can appreciate equally. The premise is relatable not just of friends watching the super bowl together, but of friends trying to share a common experience and keep a tradition alive against the odds. And in facing those odds, we get to see each of the characters showcase some of their most quintessential qualities across this one main a story that splinters in four different ways. Barney's emotional zaniness and unhinged mystery is shown through his gambling addiction. Robin's unglamorous life as a local newscaster is seen in how unprofessional she can get away with acting on air. Marshall's conflict with the five year old in Lily's class shows his boyish, endearing demeanor. And Ted's innovation and excitement with The Sensory Deprivator 5000 brings out his geekiness. But of course, it's the end of the episode that I believe elevates it above the rest. How they all fail to evade the score of the game, but still watch the game together and realize that it's the time spent together that brings value to the tradition. When future Ted narrates that all these years later, he can't remember who won or who even played the game, but he remembers eating with wings, laughing, hanging out with his friends. I think that really encapsulates the show's broader meaning, more so than the engine of Ted meeting the mother. How I Met yout Mother, I believe, is about friendship. It's about a time in one's young adulthood when friends serve as family. And the most important memories are not necessarily defined by the headlined events, but rather by who you share them with. So that's why I ranked Monday Night Football at the top of the list. Thank you all so much for creating this wonderful series that means so much to me and so much to so many. Overall. There is so much to learn from, appreciate and empathize with over the course of the nine seasons and it will always hold a special place in my heart. So thank you again and congratulations again. Craig. I hope to catch up with you soon. And Josh, Alec, Rob, I hope to cross paths with you in the future.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow, thank you so much.

[Craig Thomas]

That's great. Andrew, that was such. That's so thoughtful and smart. And Rob, how do you feel about that you helmed the episode he said is the best one to him out of 200 days.

[Rob Greenberg]

Fantastic. Well, I think it is what Joe, what Josh said, it was like it's about the most mundane thing. So the other, the emotion came through. If it was a more important event, it wouldn't have been as impactful.

[Josh Radnor]

Right, Right.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I just this morning started listening to Ezra Klein just post like a, an episode of his show from 2023 and it's with an author who wrote a book about hanging out and the pleasures of hanging out with for no particular reason and how we don't do it anymore. And there's this real, you know, there's much written about the kind of loneliness epidemic and isolation and what the phones are doing to us. But they really interrogate. I've only listened to about 20 minutes of it, but they really interrog. Interrogate this kind of lost world of hanging out, which this show is, if any show is a hanging out show. How I Met yout Mother is a hanging out show.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And they're just. They're sitting around that booth drinking beer, making each other laugh for no reason other than the delight in each other's company.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think in the same way that, you know, Gen Z loves hearing about, like, 90s childhoods, like 80s 90s analog childhoods, because it starts to feel like this lost world that they never got to know because they all had digital childhoods. And I think part of the. One of the things, Rob, that we're really interrogating on the show is like, the long tail of it, why people still watch it and care about it. And other shows that were even more popular than we were on when we were on the air have kind of faded in the cultural memory. But for some reason, this show still has a beating heart and a place in the cultural firmament. So I think that's one of the reasons there's something pleasurable about watching people face to face, care about each other, live life together, share experiences together, celebrate holidays and Super Bowls together. There's something. It touches something in us that we all want but might not currently have.

[Craig Thomas]

I think that's right. I think it scratches an itch. I think there's something about seeing even just that they all decide this is important. They all decide it's so important not to hear this result. And there's a funny thing. Even though I said they were a bit callous about poor Mark who died, there's a funny kind of thematic overlap of like, well, that's how it ends for everybody. So eventually we all die at some point. And this idea of what's so great about the ending or the result. Right. Who cares who won that game? Who cares what the end is? The end is, you know, the ultimate end is we all die.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, that's also.

[Craig Thomas]

But we better enjoy watching. Watching the fucking game together as the most important part. The end result is not the most important thing.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, Craig, that's what our kind of response is when people say, like, this could have been 15 minutes, it's like, well, that's not an interesting show. You know, like, the entire show was always about the journey. It was always about. And when people would get obsessed, you know, when the show was on the air, there were Certain How I Met yout Mother. Obsessives that were obsessed with who the mother was. Like, that was the big mystery to crack. As if this was like a true crime podcast or something. But that was never the thing. I mean, it was a fun thing to hang it on and it probably helped you guys sell the show to have a kind of hook. But that was never the thing. The thing was always, how do we create a context where people can hang out and love each other and laugh?

[Craig Thomas]

And I think maybe Andrew was hinting at that in his thoughtful answer too. Like, it's. There's something. This is in miniature the entire series in some way. Yeah. There's gonna be a result. There's gonna be a score. There will be a thing ascertained and the clock will stop and there'll be a result. And they don't remember what the fucking result is. The whole episode is about that and you never hear what it is. And I think that's a really great way to say it's the journey that matters and it's being together that matters.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah. Which is also. There was a little bit of a wink to the series because in the narrator at the very end, he says, like, even though you know how it's going to end, that's not the point.

[Andrew McGowan (Variety Writer)]

Right?

[Rob Greenberg]

That's not the point. And he's telling you, he's telling his kids about their mother. They know how to. It is. So it's not about that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's not about that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And like. And like, we talk about the best How I Met yout Mother episodes are kind of like, they're self contained. You can watch them.

[Rob Greenberg]

I think we know. I think we know the best one, however. But go on.

[Craig Thomas]

You're going to be dining out on this for years.

[Josh Radnor]

But we know we, we. We can watch it as a self contained story. But it also kind of winks at our gestures towards the larger story that.

[Craig Thomas]

It'S a part of the mini mystery. The mini. The min. The mystery in miniature. How are they going to. You know, this has a little bit of that too. It's not quite exact. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Ex. And also, you know, it was funny. Like, I think it was Atlantic City where you established that Barney was like an insane gambler.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And then you had to kind of go back and go, well, how did Barney become an insane gambler? A $1 bet with Marshall at the Super Bowl.

[Craig Thomas]

God, that feels good. It's so sad. We see the beginning of a horrible addiction for Barney Star.

[Josh Radnor]

I know, it's so great. I also loved when. When Barney refuses to wear a suit to the funeral, he shows up 100%, almost mocking Ted with his style. He's literally wearing a Ted Mosby outfit.

[Craig Thomas]

He really has the hoodie under a jacket. Like it's very Ted.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

That's the one time you don't suit up. I really like Nils read on that he's worried about the suit on the dead body. That Dolce Gamada. It must be so scared.

[Josh Radnor]

The suit.

[Craig Thomas]

The suit's scared of the dead guy. They're so heartless in that whole funeral secrets.

[Josh Radnor]

No, it's true. There really is like, for a show that was so heart forward and people really tending to each other and carry. It really was like they were. They suddenly turned in the Seinfeld cast.

[Craig Thomas]

That's exactly.

[Rob Greenberg]

They didn't know the guy.

[Josh Radnor]

Of course.

[Craig Thomas]

I'll.

[Rob Greenberg]

I'll go the other side. They didn't know him.

[Craig Thomas]

Mr. I directed the best episode and I got to apologize for any even a hint of a criticism.

[Josh Radnor]

Exactly.

[Craig Thomas]

And that, by the way, that sounded like you. That guy is Andrew McGowan. I think that was you.

[Andrew McGowan (Variety Writer)]

You doing.

[Craig Thomas]

Doing away. Rob. What. What are your. What other thoughts do we have? Do we have left? How do we. What have we not gotten to about your memories of directing? I guess the best one.

[Rob Greenberg]

I. I know that when you had on your. What is it called? The. The. When you had on your contraption and.

[Craig Thomas]

You'Re in the bar. Sensory deprivator, I believe. Why am I the only one that remembers that the.

[Rob Greenberg]

And he's on and he goes by the waitress and he sees the cleavage and goes on and then goes back for a second look.

[Craig Thomas]

That was a Greenberg.

[Rob Greenberg]

100% a crazy Thomas on set.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Michaela (Listener/Caller)]

Really?

[Rob Greenberg]

Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

I was just throwing you under the bus.

[Rob Greenberg]

You can't. You can't do that anymore. But 100 crickles. What if he goes back a second time? It's like, all right, that's a great idea.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost like an. It's almost like a shot from Airplane when the boobs just come in and then just leave.

[Craig Thomas]

It is so Airplane. Oh, my God.

[Rob Greenberg]

I think I. I think I did add Josh crossing by eye on Neil when he's yelling on the sidewalk.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, that made me laugh.

[Craig Thomas]

I really liked that. That made me laugh so hard I forgot about it.

[Josh Radnor]

Very funny.

[Rob Greenberg]

That's when they can. In the story, the connection, the connective.

[Craig Thomas]

P. The transition piece is pushing it on the TV in the bar and then we're in the newsroom. On that shot, like. And the walk through the way those stories all connected. That was also very well done. As much as it pains me to compliment you, Rob, that was well done.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what's funny, Rob? So, like, years later, I so appreciated that shot. So Neil's on the ground screaming, and then Ted walks by with the sensory deforator 3000 kind of feeling around New York City about to bump into a lamppost.

[Craig Thomas]

You were very funny in that.

[Josh Radnor]

So I was probably not. You're right. I probably. On Monday was not written in. By Wednesday, that's written in. But what people don't understand is moving the whole crew down to New York street was a real process. You had a whole, you know, you're shooting down there, it's off the stage. I had to come in and get. Go through. You know, I probably wasn't scheduled to work that day, but then I had to come in just to walk through in the background, which was the right narrative move. And you laugh about it years later, but there's probably a part of you as an actor, you're like, ugh, I gotta come in on Thursday afternoon. I thought I was telling you this.

[Rob Greenberg]

Is why you battled thing. I don't think you were so quiet about it.

[Craig Thomas]

However, that is your strongest memory is my.

[Josh Radnor]

My protesting.

[Rob Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

He said, I'm not. If I'm doing this, I'm not doing the hands. That's really funny. I just heard that.

[Josh Radnor]

That's funny.

[Rob Greenberg]

And the other side of it is you. You had to direct the camera guy because he did a lot of work and he had a. He had to look over and, like, the. You know, if it's too jerky or too. So that was.

[Josh Radnor]

You should have let me shoot it. It would have been.

[Rob Greenberg]

You could have then. It could have been your hands. Your hands.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, the sensory deprivator stuff, POV stuff. That's. That was very cool.

[Josh Radnor]

Where'd that come from, Craig? Where'd that come from in the room? Do you remember? Remember?

[Craig Thomas]

It might have been. It might have been me.

[Rob Greenberg]

I don't know. It might have.

[Craig Thomas]

That might have been, like. We wanted ted's approach to be endearingly overthought, dorky, and somewhat inventively architecty.

[Andrew McGowan (Variety Writer)]

Did.

[Josh Radnor]

Did Cap and Crunch give us any money? Was that sponsored content or.

[Craig Thomas]

No, sadly, no. We missed a bet there. Yeah, but they can. They could sponsor the podcast. We're plugging in here on the podcast. We don't have to call it a day yet.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

But that stuff must have been Fun to shoot with the cameraman. Like, there was a lot of camera acting in this episode.

[Rob Greenberg]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

There was, like, a lot of. The camera was the joke for a lot of stuff in this episode.

[Rob Greenberg]

It was a fun one to do.

[Craig Thomas]

You got to have fun. We handed you gold. Rob handed you gold.

[Rob Greenberg]

Get out of the way. Don't screw it up.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. You know what else I liked is Ted missing the bartender's fist at the lab when he goes back to get the sauce.

[Craig Thomas]

Have proper depth perception. He doesn't fully see the fist. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, sometimes, you know, we've talked, Rob. Like, sometimes I had to be the kind of virtuous center of the show or the romantic hero. But there was something fun those episodes where I just get to be as big an idiot as everyone else.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And this is definitely, like, Ted's as big an idiot as everyone else in this episode. He's bighead in the idiocy.

[Craig Thomas]

The idiocy was his idea. He's the absolute showrunner of idiocy on this one.

[Josh Radnor]

Right.

[Craig Thomas]

Which I love. I love that speed for Ted. I think it was very important to sometimes see that side of Ted because it earns you the more earnest, sincere parts later. You need to know he's obsessed, and he's gonna make the sensory deprivator 5000 to care about him when he's gonna give a romantic speech and that he.

[Josh Radnor]

Can hang with the gang in their weirdness and they listen to him.

[Rob Greenberg]

And you would think he would wear it only when he got to the bar and went inside, but no, he wears it on the street. He also wears it up the staircase.

[Craig Thomas]

Of his own apartment. He wore it up into the building.

[Rob Greenberg]

Into his apartment.

[Craig Thomas]

Wearing it into the apartment as like, all right, that's a little bit of a buy, too. But it was funny. It was a good Barney reveal. Barney sneaking out. Well, it was a great one, Rob. You nailed it. We'll give it to you. We'll give it up.

[Rob Greenberg]

All I did was get handed great actors and a great script. So there you go.

[Craig Thomas]

Well directed. Well done, my friend.

[Josh Radnor]

It was the perfect amount of Jewish this episode. I just had a season one Rob Greenberg memory come rushing back to me that I would like to share until we got into. When did we get into. Into the dressing rooms in the building behind the stage. That was like, season three.

[Craig Thomas]

I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So for the first two seasons, we had these trailers out in front of the. And I emerged from my trailer. And I think the first two seasons, I had a bit of a Not quite a scowl on my face, but I was overly kind of thoughtful and I couldn't lighten up my face. But I remember leaving my trailer one day and I walked out and I see Rob across the way and he said, smile. Your life is going so much better than you ever thought it would.

[Craig Thomas]

That's an amazing thing to just have prepared to say, Rob, in the moment, that is.

[Rob Greenberg]

It was true. He was a star of a TV show and just arrived in LA like two weeks earlier.

[Josh Radnor]

It was longer than two weeks, but thank you, Rob. I did need someone to lighten me up. And you were on Always. You were always there for that.

[Craig Thomas]

So you were, you were always good at that for all of us, including me and Carter when we were the youngins, not knowing what we were doing.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I think you, I think there was a. What I was trying to say earlier was you always reminded me that this was a great gig. Like, like there's so many other harder ways to make a living than what we were doing. And, and you were, you were like a walking reminder of that. So thank you.

[Rob Greenberg]

You're welcome.

[Craig Thomas]

And we knew we did. We knew we had a good one. When we would pitch a bit in the room and Rob would say, yes, that's the Greenbergian. Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Give us one, Rob.

[Craig Thomas]

We've, we've. We have to earn it though, right?

[Rob Greenberg]

I have to earn it.

[Josh Radnor]

You directed the best episode.

[Rob Greenberg]

I'm Not a Wind up Monkey.

[Josh Radnor]

You directed the best episode of How I Met yout Mother.

[Rob Greenberg]

That is what I hear this.

[Craig Thomas]

You're really not gonna give it up.

[Josh Radnor]

Okay. Well, we like to end the most of these episodes episodes with a written letter. We open often with a recorded letter. But today we're ending with a beautiful, wonderful letter that we received. If you would like to write us or leave us a voice note, possibly, hopefully to be read on the show, please go to how we made your mother.com h w my m.com and wedding.

[Craig Thomas]

Proposals are now accepted.

[Josh Radnor]

Wedding proposals now accepted. This is where most people are going to propose marriage to these days and go to contact and follow the instructions. It should be pretty clear, but we love hearing from people what the show meant to you and any other things you want to share with us about the show and how it's affected your life. Anyway, here is a letter. This is from Alex. Dear Josh, Craig and Alec, I hope this message finds you well. My name is Alex, writing from far away. The Balkan peninsula in Serbia. Here. Most people I know watched himyim in high school back when seasons four and five were airing. I somehow missed that wave. I didn't begin watching the show until I was at University around 2013-2014, but the moment I did, I was completely hooked. Since then, for the past 12 years, the show has been a quiet companion in my life. I've rewatched it many times, especially in the early days of COVID when I was 27, the same age as the characters in those early stages seasons. Now, in my early 30s, rewatching the show again feels different, yet equally powerful. When I was younger, it was the love story that struck me. Now it's the whole worldview of the show. The friendships, the searching, the heartbreak, the growing up, the strange mix of melancholy and joy that adulthood brings. There's an honesty in it that only grows with age. And now, with some distance, I also realize how much I miss the world the show portrays. A few days ago, I rewatched the episode where the gang gets smartphones for the first time. And from today's perspective, it already feels like a classic, A little time capsule in a world that is slipping away. Recently, I discovered Josh's music, unfortunately, only last year. It's never too late. As someone who has been making music for a large part of my life, that immediately struck a chord in me. For the first time, I thought maybe I should also try to sing. And so, as a small homage to the show, I wrote two songs inspired by himyim, something completely and utterly different from the music that I usually write and record. Thank you for creating something so heartfelt, funny, human, and enduring. It has influenced more of my life than I ever expected a television show could. I would have a million and one questions, but I will let you guys answer each and every one of them weekly in your amazing podcast. Wow. Thank you so much, Alex. What a great love letter.

[Craig Thomas]

That was lovely. That was lovely. And kind of linked up with what we were talking about, about the lost. The lost world of actually spending time with each other and not on screens, which. Which ironically, we are doing right now, spending time with each other on screen to talk about.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you, Alex. I'm so glad people in Serbia love the show. It's thrilling to hear the. The geographic reach of the show and Rob Greenberg, we're, we're delighted to see you and to. To be able to chat with you about this episode and, and please let me know when you're in New York.

[Rob Greenberg]

I will let you know. It's a pleasure. It's lovely to see your faces.

[Craig Thomas]

We'll have you back. We'll have you back.

[Rob Greenberg]

Thank you for having. Thank you for having me.

[Josh Radnor]

It's hard for me to think of how I met your mother without you as a huge part of it. And I'm so glad you were there that first day where I met everyone. That changed my life.

[Craig Thomas]

And yeah, come back the earliest believer in it in so many ways. Rob, you really, you really were so there for me and Carter when we were in over our heads. And I don't think the show would have been the same without you helping preserve what was special about it to begin with. So thank you. We love you. Ladies and gentlemen, Rob Greenberg.

[Rob Greenberg]

Thank you and I love you both.

[Josh Radnor]

So Alex, who wrote us this wonderful letter that we just read, he sent us in one of those two songs that he wrote that was inspired by How I Met yout Mother. And we're gonna send you off with this one. So here is that wonderful song. Thanks Alex, for sending it in.

[Andrew McGowan (Variety Writer)]

Blue French horn hanging there reminding me.

[Josh Radnor]

Of what we share Some loves and so others construct and yours rebuild my heart. I am dreaming guilty please acquit me all sins are forgiven In New York.

[Podcast Producer/Outro Voice]

City, How We Made your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master, is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own Josh Rose Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we made your mother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack and check out his music and everything [e-mail] order Craig Thomas's debut novel, that's Not How It Happened, wherever books are sold and check out his other published writings at craig thomas writer.com and you can subscribe to My own Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn more about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research. Check out the Make a difference tab at the top of our website. People will, in fact, dance.

[Josh Radnor]

The real question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?

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[Rob Greenberg]

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