How We Stabbed Lily | S1E8 "The Duel"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother: Episode Summary - "How We Stabbed Lily | S1E8 'The Duel'"

In the eighth episode of Season 1, titled "The Duel," hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve deep into the intricate dynamics and enduring themes that have made "How I Met Your Mother" a beloved staple in pop culture. This episode not only dissects key plot points but also explores the emotional underpinnings that resonate with fans worldwide.

1. Listener Feedback and Personal Connections

The episode opens with heartfelt listener contributions, highlighting the profound impact the show has had on its audience.

Bridget [00:57]: "I loved getting to connect with Mrs. Thomas over How I Met Your Mother. And the show ending is such a strong memory of the end of my senior year."

Craig and Josh warmly respond to Bridget's message, sharing personal anecdotes about Craig's mother, Mrs. Thomas, and her enthusiasm for the show. This segment underscores the familial and personal bonds that extend beyond the screen.

Craig Thomas [02:00]: "She was so excited to hear our thoughts on the finale… she adores you, Josh."

2. Episode Overview: "The Duel"

The hosts transition to a detailed discussion of the episode "The Duel," originally aired on November 14, 2005, written by Gloria Calderon Kelly.

Alec Lev [05:26]: "This Originally aired on November 14th in the year 2005. Written by Gloria Calderon Kelly."

3. Key Plot Points and Character Dynamics

Lily's Secret Apartment

One of the central plotlines involves Lily maintaining a separate apartment in Queens, serving as her emotional sanctuary. Her return with Robin reveals that her haven has been transformed into a Chinese restaurant, symbolizing the inevitable changes that occur in life.

Josh Radnor [07:01]: "Lily kept a separate apartment in Queens just for peace of mind… she had this kind of reverse pied-à-terre that was just her emotional security blanket apartment."

Ted and Marshall's Confrontation

Ted becomes anxious about the future of their shared apartment as Marshall and Lily prepare for marriage. This tension culminates in a literal sword fight, highlighting the broader themes of change versus stability.

Josh Radnor [07:56]: "Ted and Marshall have never really discussed what's going to happen to their apartment once Marshall and Lily get married."

Barney's "Lemon Law"

Introducing humor and character depth, Barney devises the "Lemon Law," allowing him to swiftly exit undesirable relationships without the usual elaborate lies—a testament to his quirky, yet poignant approach to life.

Craig Thomas [08:29]: "The lemon law is a Barney Stinson invention. He wants it to become a thing that you shouldn't have to do the dance and do elaborate lies to get out of a terrible first aid."

4. Themes and Symbolism

Embracing Change

A recurring theme is the inevitability of change and the struggle to maintain personal stability amidst life's constant evolution. The transformation of Lily's apartment into a Chinese restaurant serves as a metaphor for uncontrollable life changes.

Josh Radnor [25:20]: "The only thing constant is change. Life is roilingly moving and changing and transforming."

Material Objects as Extensions of Self

The hosts discuss how objects within the characters' lives symbolize their emotional states and relationships. From the iconic swords in Ted and Jason's shared space to Lily's personalized items, each object carries significant meaning.

Craig Thomas [48:07]: "Everything has history, Everything has meaning."

Post-9/11 Influences

Delving into the show's backdrop, Josh and Craig reflect on how the aftermath of September 11th subtly influenced the show's narrative and character development, infusing it with a sense of nostalgia and resilience.

Craig Thomas [15:05]: "It informed people's life choices after that and how you viewed life and the potential tenuousness of life and maybe wanting to find something to hold onto."

5. Fan Letter Highlight: Lucy from Italy

A poignant moment in the episode features a heartfelt letter from Lucy, an Italian fan whose life was profoundly influenced by the show. Her story of meeting her husband, Giorgio, parallels the serendipitous moments depicted in the series.

Lucy [54:04]: "In the meantime we matched with other people who turned into love interests. But there was something between us… we got married in 2017 and celebrated our 10th anniversary as a couple last November."

Craig and Josh express deep gratitude and emotional resonance upon hearing Lucy's story, emphasizing the show's impact on real-life relationships.

Craig Thomas [55:32]: "We're so honored that you would share that story with us. It's beautiful… Thank you so much for sharing."

6. Conclusion: Impact and Legacy

The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring legacy of "How I Met Your Mother." Josh and Craig discuss how the show's themes of friendship, love, and change continue to inspire and connect with audiences, fostering a community that cherishes shared experiences and personal growth.

Josh Radnor [58:23]: "There's something beautiful about that… The show isn't us. The show's not you. It's a thing we did, and now it belongs to everybody else."

They invite listeners to share their own stories, reinforcing the communal spirit that has become synonymous with the podcast and the original series.

Josh Radnor [59:33]: "If anyone out there does want to let us know what How I Met Your Mother meant to them… just tell your story or share."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Bridget [00:57]: "She was so excited to hear our thoughts on the finale… she adores you, Josh."

• Craig Thomas [08:29]: "The lemon law is a Barney Stinson invention…"

• Josh Radnor [25:20]: "The only thing constant is change."

• Lucy [54:04]: "We got married in 2017 and celebrated our 10th anniversary as a couple last November."

• Craig Thomas [55:32]: "It's beautiful… Thank you so much for sharing."

This comprehensive exploration of "The Duel" not only dissects the episode's narrative mechanics but also delves into the emotional and thematic threads that continue to make "How I Met Your Mother" resonate with its audience decades later.

Transcript

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[Bridget]

Hi, I'm Bridget and I grew up on Long Island. When I was in high school, we had a regular substitute named Mrs. Thomas. As you can probably guess, it was Craig's mom. She loved to tell us all about the show, about Craig and Carter meeting at Wesleyan, and about how Jason would call her mom at season wrap parties because Marshall was the mirror of Craig in their story. Most notably, however, is that in my senior year she subbed a class just after the finale aired in in my memory, it was the exact next day, but that's probably incorrect. She was so excited to hear our thoughts on the finale that we all finally knew the secret after all these years and she was so proud of you and the show that you had created. I loved getting to connect with Mrs. Thomas over how I met your mother. And the show ending is such a strong memory of the end of my senior year. A friend who fancied himself a Barney even made a bracket of girls that he wanted to ask to promote. So good luck with the show. I can't wait to listen and thank you so much for the show that you created.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow. Wow. I've been ambushed with my own mother.

[Josh Radnor]

This is.

[Craig Thomas]

I can't take this. I'm on camera. This is so good.

[Josh Radnor]

You can't hide from her anywhere.

[Craig Thomas]

How did she find me?

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Well, hello, hello Mrs. Thomas and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother, where we are discussing the television series How I Met yout Mother, which aired on CBS from 2005 to 2014. I'm Josh Radner. I played the I in How I Met yout Mother for all 208 episodes. I was in all of them. And I'm joined by my friend Craig Thomas, who co created the show with Carter Bay. Hey, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Josh. My God, my mind is swimming. That was insane. Hello to my mother, who is the biggest how much Mother fan in the world. This is how everyone met my mother on this podcast. And thank you, Bridget, for your kind words about my mother, who is an amazing English teacher and then was substituting and still every now and again does teach still. She teaches English, a second language, in Port Washington, New York. She's just a lifelong wonderful teacher, wonderful person, wonderful, wonderful writer, and a huge influence on me and the show. And adores you, Josh. Adores you.

[Josh Radnor]

Alec and I went to podcast. Your mom is a delight. Your mom is a delight.

[Craig Thomas]

When we were launching the podcast, my mother said, I'm really glad you're doing the podcast with Josh and Alec. They both have nice voices. And then I was waiting.

[Josh Radnor]

Craig, I don't know if this is a Midwestern thing, but do you have the experience with your mom at least, or any, you know, relatives where they don't head on directly compliment you, but they brag about you to ancillary characters in your life and you have to hear, oh, your. Your mother's so proud of. Your father's so proud of you. And you're like, I wish they'd tell me.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, there's maybe some of that sometimes. I mean, my mother's pretty good about telling me she's proud of me, even though I just told that. That joke about. About your voices and me getting no compliment on my voice, which is fine.

[Josh Radnor]

You carry yourself with my voice is fine.

[Craig Thomas]

My voice is fine. It's not.

[Josh Radnor]

You carry your. Like someone who believes his mom is proud of him.

[Craig Thomas]

I would say that experience that with more with my father, who I don't know if he can figure out how to listen to this podcast. And if he can, he'll. He'd be scandalized when I'm saying this. I think he would be the person that would tell somebody that he's proud of me more than saying it directly to me.

[Josh Radnor]

Got it.

[Craig Thomas]

But I. He has said plenty of nice things to me as well.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

But that's. Thank you for that comment, Bridget. That's so moving to me that you have all those fond memories of my mother and her teaching you and how I'm at your mother. And it's. That is.

[Josh Radnor]

It's My whole woven together.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I know. It's wonderful. Thank you.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, we should. We should.

[Craig Thomas]

We're not here just to talk about my mother, as wonderful as she is.

[Josh Radnor]

We should stop on Long island because lovely things happen out there.

[Craig Thomas]

You know what? A lot of lovely things happen in Long island.

[Josh Radnor]

And you're from there. And also other Long Island's favorite sun. Well, today we're just. Today we're discussing episode eight of season one. It was called. It is called the Duel. When did this episode air, Alec?

[Alec Lev]

This Originally aired on November 14th in the year 2005. Written by Gloria Calderon Kelly.

[Craig Thomas]

Gloria. Wonderful. How much Mother writer Gloria.

[Josh Radnor]

Hi, Gloria.

[Craig Thomas]

Huge shout out to her. Wonderful writer was on multiple seasons. I think this would be her first. Right? This is her first one. Wrote some other Alzheimer's. Including. Drumroll, please. Which we'll get to.

[Josh Radnor]

She's really great. How did you. Did you guys just meet her in an interview or did you know her before you were staffing?

[Craig Thomas]

We were all on another show to get together very, very briefly. Carter and I did many little. We actually had a couple other shows together, believe it or not, and none of the show. We were briefly on a show called Quintuplets. Hold for applause as America. Even my mom's like, what the fuck is that one? I don't even. I'm not proud of him for that. And I don't like his voice. It was also ran a little blip on the radar, but Glo was on that and she was on the show. Oliver Bean with us. I'll hold for even more applause. It's hard. You can't even prove these shows exist anymore. You can't even. They're not on Streamyard. They were TV shows. Remember Courtney Kang, where she was like, I was on multiple TV shows that I cannot prove existed. These might be in that category. Oliver Bean was a very charming show and had its fans and was not that one could have gone longer than it did. But we met Gloria and we knew we really liked her. And so we said, you just make mental notes. If I ever have a show, this will be our team. And it's great to get to do that.

[Josh Radnor]

So let's just summarize the, like, key bullet plot points of the Duel. So.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. So. So one plot point is that Lily. It's revealed that Lily kept a separate apartment in Queens just for peace of mind, essentially, even though she hadn't been back there in three months. So she had this kind of reverse pied a terre that was just her emotional security. Blanket apartment.

[Craig Thomas]

It was her fat pants apartment.

[Josh Radnor]

It was her just.

[Craig Thomas]

You're glad they're there. You don't have to use it.

[Josh Radnor]

That's right.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a great line. That was glow. That was not my line.

[Josh Radnor]

So she goes back with Robin, discovers that her apartment has been converted to a Chinese restaurant.

[Craig Thomas]

I love that joke so much.

[Josh Radnor]

And they're still using it.

[Craig Thomas]

I kind of forgot it.

[Josh Radnor]

They're still using the dresser. They're using her playlists that Marshall made for her. And they seem to know her pretty well. Like, they're intimately woven into her life at this point.

[Craig Thomas]

Pictures, her mail, her stairs.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's all. It's all there. So that's great. And then there's a plotline about Ted getting concerned. Ted and Marshall have never really discussed what's going to happen to their apartment once Marshall and Lily get married. And one of my favorite jokes, which does recur, and this is the first time I think it's, let's let future Ted and future Marshall deal with that.

[Craig Thomas]

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So they kind of kick it down the road, but then it turns, they actually fight, quite literally have a sword fight about this apartment. And there's larger issues to unpack around it, but is that it? Is there? Oh, and then the lemon law. Then there's a third. Explain the lemon law.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. The lemon law is a Barney Stinson invention. He wants it to become a thing that you shouldn't have to do the dance and do elaborate lies to get out of a terrible first aid. You should be able to decide right away in the first five minutes. And if you say within the first five minutes, you've lemon lawed that person. Kind of like buying a bad used car and having some recourse for having been sold a lemon. And. Yeah, he's trying to make it a thing. It's his first thing of trying to make a thing. A thing.

[Josh Radnor]

A thing.

[Craig Thomas]

A thing.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. You know, it occurs to me that Barney is a little like, he was like an Internet meme artist slash troll before there was such a thing, prior to it. Do you know what I mean? Like, he was in the real world. He was trolling people. He was trying to, like, create trends. He was trying to make things go viral. But, like, in life, like starting in the bar.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, he was. He foreshadowed many things in our. In our current landscape, I think.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah. And. And also the. The. The swing back to shock humor and saying anything and everything to get a response.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And also that being evidence of his sad Brokenness.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know. Yes, but he. I mean, to spoil it, but. But at the end, he gets dumped based on the Lemon Law. But he's not even upset about that because he's like. It's become a thing. That's the thing for him is it's.

[Craig Thomas]

Like Barney, in these first. I think this is episode eight, right. In the first eight episodes, is not particularly concerned with getting laid. Isn't that interesting? Like, it's. We're like a third of the way through season one, and he's so ecstatic that he got Lemon la. Because it's become a thing. His thing became a thing. He does not care that he does not hook up with that woman or seemingly any woman in this episode. Well, it's kind of most of the episodes.

[Josh Radnor]

It's also like. It's all under the umbrella of getting laid. It's like. It's like the ethos of getting laid. But the. The. The story and the. The memeification of it all is almost more important to him, it seems.

[Craig Thomas]

It's. It's explicitly more important to him in this one. Yeah, it's hilarious.

[Josh Radnor]

And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back. Greg, we talk a lot about dating on this show.

[Craig Thomas]

We sure do.

[Josh Radnor]

Because how I met your mother was. There was a lot of dating in it.

[Craig Thomas]

There was some dating.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what I mean?

[Craig Thomas]

Only hundreds of them, though. Only hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And, you know, I was thinking, like, shopping for anything, but especially shopping for a car. You have a car, right?

[Craig Thomas]

I got two of them. Not to brag.

[Josh Radnor]

Having a car in New York City is a game changer, don't you think?

[Craig Thomas]

Big game changer.

[Josh Radnor]

I drive in New York City and I love.

[Craig Thomas]

I drive in New York a lot.

[Josh Radnor]

I love it. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, me too. You know what's good with a dog? If you have a dog, you want to.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. And you got it. And you skip town with your car.

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's not. It's not. Looking for a car can be a real headache. It's not unlike dating. I mean, there's so many options. There's so many choices. And we don't. You know, they've done studies. Our brains. We wither when we have too many choices, don't we?

[Craig Thomas]

It's the paralysis of too many choices. You don't know what to do. You're shut down.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Deer in the headlights.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, if only. If only there was a place that could help us out and Sift through it almost. For us, it's like a casting director of cars. That's what we need.

[Craig Thomas]

Where are you going with this? Wait, what is this conversation?

[Josh Radnor]

I'm telling you, we need a casting director for cars who only brings us, like, look, these are your best options. This is. You're gonna. You're gonna want one of these, right?

[Craig Thomas]

A casting director for cars is some Don Draper stuff. That was good. Just to be clear, that was. Josh. Josh just made that one up.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, well, I'm. We're. We're. I'm. I'm talking about car gurus. They're. They're. They're doing this for us.

[Craig Thomas]

I know you are.

[Josh Radnor]

Shopping for a car should be exciting, not exhausting, but it's. They take. They take all the exhaustion out of it, and they leave you with nothing but excitement. These car gurus, that's what they do.

[Craig Thomas]

That's why they are the car gurus. I think we should make a show about the car gurus next. That's our next show. They rank the best deals, they verify dealers. They make sure you never pay more than you should. Your big deal, Josh, it just became a great deal. This is also just. I'm making this all up off the top of my head now. Your thing was good. That was good. Casting director.

[Josh Radnor]

While Car Gurus is the number one most visited car shopping site, and you can go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. Did you already say that?

[Craig Thomas]

I said that, but let's say it again.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's say it three times. Go to cargurus.com to make sure I'm.

[Craig Thomas]

Saying the same deal is the best deal.

[Josh Radnor]

That's car deal gurus.com c a r g u r us.com cargurus.com caster cars.

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Josh Radnor]

You know, Craig, I had a thought yesterday, I think, where I was thinking about how long it's been since the show aired. And I remembered talking with you and Carter about this notion of post September 11th. It felt like you guys kind of got swept out to the West Coast. It was the end of this kind of very New York chapter in your life. And it took you to the west coast and you found fame and fortune writing this show. But 2005, I was like, wow, September 11th was still very much in the air. It was still. It was still really like. It was still pulsing in New York and nationally. And it's now. It's been so long that it becomes. It's got the tinge, the sepia tinge of history around it. But at that moment, it was still. I don't know, there was still like. There was still like a feeling of unease in New York.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think that's right. I think it lasted quite a long time and took years to go away. I remember visiting New York in the years after moving to LA. We moved to LA in 2002, months after September 11, and coming back and just feeling like, oh, it's still here. I still feel this. I still feel this. In 2002, you felt sort of like you could still smell the air of it. I mean, it was really. It's hard to overstate what that was. And it lasted years and years and. Yeah, and it informed. Like I've said before, it informed. I think this show informed our move to la. It informed our nostalgia for New York. And it's funny, we never had the characters talk about that. Right. The show was in 2005. It just felt too hard. We wouldn't want to be disrespectful or do it wrong or try to seem like we're being glib about anything, but it feels like it's part of New York at that time. It's somehow part of the story and.

[Josh Radnor]

Certainly part of the show. It strikes me it would have either been their senior year of college or their first September in New York, which is actually more. So it actually would have been a very formative thing for them, but hugely.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, I wonder. This is. Man, this is like a stretch, but just go with me. I wonder if there was something in Ted. I mean, okay, this is a crazy. I don't even know, this iconic skyscraper gets taken out by terrorists. That would talk about something that would affect Ted, right? It's like an iconic building, but then he has this thing of, like, we don't have all the time in the world. Like, this impatient kind of clock starts running in him. I don't know. This is not. This is all like Monday morning quarterbacking the whole character. But it just. I was struck by how close 2005 was to 2004.

[Craig Thomas]

I don't think it's a Reach. I think there's something to it. There's something because after that happened and we were all in our 20s and we're all like, we're all having fun in New York in our 20s. And then everything changed that day. And then I think it did inform people's life choices after that and how you viewed life and the potential tenuousness of life and maybe wanting to find something to hold onto. And like, could that have been in ted's DNA in some way? Absolutely. I think it was in Carter, in my DNA in some way, and informed.

[Josh Radnor]

The creation of the show.

[Craig Thomas]

So why is it not in ted?

[Josh Radnor]

Right?

[Craig Thomas]

I think. I think it is in ted. I think it's in TED also.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, they say the 90s ended on September 11th. Like the 90s. The ethos and the vibe of the 90s kind of like carried over. Chuck Klosterman wrote a really good book called the 90s. Did you read this book? Super fun read. You'll think about Ross Perot more than you have in a long time. But it. He said that the 90s were the last decade where being political was an. Was optional. Like in the 90s, remember, we went to college with people who were like, I don't vote. And it wasn't super frowned on. It was just kind of like, that's a choice. Yeah, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It wasn't like it's defining thing. Yeah, I agree.

[Josh Radnor]

I also think that when we were in college, it was a much more ironic era. And I always, you know, once I started doing a lot of college speaking, which I've done a lot of over the years, and I started like, talking to millennials, I was like, oh, these are my people. Like, this is a much more sincere generation. And I think, like, you guys were like, me, like, you were like, you were sincere people in the 90s. Which was actually like a bit of a rock and roll kind of like, stance to take because irony was so pervasive. Like not act, not seeming ambitious, not seeming to care about anything. Saying the opposite of what you meant. All of that was so 90s.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, there's that. Great. I just. My daughter's getting super into the Simpsons and There's like a 90s, like a mid late 90s Simpsons episode where it's like a Lollapalooza thing. And like two. Two, like jaded teens in the audience are like, this next act ought to be good. And the other guy's like, are you being ironic right now? And the first guy goes, I don't even know anymore. And it was like, oh, that little exchange captured that data entirely.

[Josh Radnor]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

But we. So we. I will say this, and I want to say this delicately, which is that Carter and I more than once talked about. Could we somehow imply in the show, by way of explaining some of Barney's brokenness and some of Barney's desire to, like, have Ted be his best friend starting at a certain moment in time? Could we ever somehow, in the right way, imply that Barney, who worked downtown in the financial district, knew people had lost. Lost people in 9 11.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

And that that informed his trajectory kind of when he meets Ted, and we talked about it more than once, so it was like in the back of our minds that that could be part of his journey. We never. We found all these other interesting ways to get into Barney's backstory, that. That. That we didn't ever attempt the high degree of difficulty of. How can you talk about that in the right way? I'm nervous talking about it now, 20 years later on this podcast. And maybe it's for the best that we never even tried to say that. But in the back of our minds, we're like, barney moved in that finance world. There's just every chance that he. Maybe that something really impacted him. Maybe there was a loss there. Why did he all of a sudden want to find this whole new friend group around not long after that time? Think about that flashback to when Barney kind of meets Ted. Ted as the goatee. And it's kind of in the years following Ted, you know, the first few years after college for Ted. I don't know. I never thought I would talk about this anywhere, and hopefully, if anyone's offended, I apologize deeply. But we definitely meant it. By way of excavating the emotional life of that character. We were not trying to be funny about it. That's why we didn't do it, because we didn't want to be perceived as being glib about.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, that's also. There's that thing of, like, when you're confronted with death, sometimes your body wants to procreate. Like, your body wants to put life, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And that could be a driver of a certain amount of compulsivity. Possibly. I mean, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. I just. I just wanted to tease that out because I realized it, you know, September 11th doesn't feel so close nowadays, but it certainly. We were just edged up closer to it than. Than I had realized. So, again with Ted in this episode, there is. He's at odds with Himself, I can see he both wants his life to change in the most substantial ways possible. I want to meet a woman. I want to have children. Like, he's trying to hurry up the universe. He's got this deep existential impatience. And at the same time. And this is where some of his, I think, internal storm comes from. He is like, please, God, let nothing change. Let Marshall and Lily live here forever. Let us live in this apartment forever. Let you know. And I think I hear from a lot of people in their 20s who are one, they all think they're old, which is hilarious, but as did we.

[Craig Thomas]

And that's the show we show. From that point, I'm not successful.

[Josh Radnor]

By 25, time has run out. I have absolutely. You know, and I try to remind people, your 20s are probably the hardest time of your life in terms of the amount of change, instability. Your friend groups can kind of change and realign you. You know, I found leaving college to mildly traumatic just because I was like, where's the meal plan? Like, I like. I like dining halls. I like communal meals. I like knowing where my friends are going to be. And I think that's what Ted loves about the bar. He loves the dependability of it, the reliability of it. But he's really put himself in a bind because he is out of one side of his mouth. He's hoping life changes in the most dramatic ways. And on another, he's like, please. He's holding on for dear life to have things absolutely stay the same.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's really interesting. He wants everything to change and nothing to change. You know, at the same time, you said.

[Josh Radnor]

That's exactly what I tried to say for the last five minutes.

[Craig Thomas]

But, yes, it's impossible. It's impossible. No, it's such a great observation. It's who he is. And that's the paradox of trying to plan everything when everything is ultimately unplannable. And of course, it comes from so much love. What he really wants is Leif to stay as it is. And he just has this perfect woman to fill into this double date slot with Marshall and Lily, and they are his family. And I really. This is one of those first episodes where you really feel that idea of, like, what if Ted is left behind by Marshall and Lily, who are his family in New York? And you really feel that vulnerability. But that is also running counter to Ted's thing of, like, she threw out Shocky, which, by the way, shout out to Carter's college coffee maker, which was Shocky. Carter, Carter and his college roommates, which I Was not one of them. I didn't live with Carter and college. College. I lived with Alec in college all four years at Wesleyan. You have to remember this. You have moves all four years. Alec. I just. We'll talk offline.

[Josh Radnor]

Carter.

[Craig Thomas]

But Carter really had Shocky. That was great.

[Josh Radnor]

But Carter also, like, he loves. He has a nostalgic bent. Like he loves old timey things and you know what I'm saying, Like he loves things that have like a story attached to them. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely. The taste of rust and the coffee.

[Josh Radnor]

The coffee, yeah. So Shocky really made me laugh. It's such a great metaphor. I always loved plugging in the thing and having like a literal, like I'm being electrocuted, but there's joy in it, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you played it like this is. This is every morning you need that jolt.

[Josh Radnor]

You're just gonna. It's part of the. It's part of the wake up routine. You get electrocuted and then you get Cathedral perfectly.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, it's really funny.

[Josh Radnor]

No. And I also love where he's disturbed because, wait, this coffee's good. Like the new coffee maker makes good coffee.

[Craig Thomas]

This is too good.

[Josh Radnor]

It's too good.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, you were very funny in that.

[Josh Radnor]

But there's something so funny and endearing about this idea of I would rather have bad coffee that's dependably the same than a new cup of good coffee.

[Craig Thomas]

It's the fear of change. It really is. There's a lot of themes of the.

[Josh Radnor]

Show in that it's all over the first season. And I would argue the whole show is this idea that life, the only thing constant is change. Life is roilingly moving and changing and transforming and we get into a lot of trouble when we were like, no, I will not be on the side of change. I will dig my heels in and I won't change. Like, you're either going to get ground underfoot or you're going to be left behind. And I have found a friend of mine reminded me, he said, you've loved every chapter of your life. And it's true. You know, it's not to say I don't have my ups and downs and everything, but when I am on the precipice of the doorstep of a big change, I'm pretty terrified. I wake up at three in the morning and can't fall back to sleep. Like the anticipatory anxiety is so great once I move into the apartment or go do the job in the other city. And once I'm in the flow of it or Start making the movie. Boy, it's like the clouds part, and I have this new jolt of energy, and I actually feel younger in a weird way. You know, Like, I just think that the. One of the deep lessons of how I met your mother is like, say yes to change.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And there's.

[Josh Radnor]

There's something.

[Craig Thomas]

And there's something inherent, what you're saying exists within that idea of, like, you know, whose problem that could be. Future Ted and future Marshall. Let's let those guys figure it out. But there's this funny kind of like meta awareness of the show that is about the future and told from the future, and the characters seem aware of it at times. Barney and the Lemon law. People will talk about the lemon law for generations to come. And Ted Marshall are punting their problems to their future selves. But there's something funny about this idea of like, yeah, your future self actually will figure that out.

[Josh Radnor]

Out.

[Craig Thomas]

They actually will.

[Josh Radnor]

In fact, your future self is narrating this scene.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, they figured it out. He's just telling the story right now that. That future self who figured it out is talking about this. That's why we're seeing the story.

[Alec Lev]

To add what you were saying, Josh. I was once in a. I was a sign language interpreter, and I was interpreting a class about business, and the teacher said something that was profound, or at least in terms of our discussion, it feels like it is where he said, what does McDonald's sell? Right? Like, what is the hallmark of McDonald's? What are they actually selling? And everyone was like, hamburgers and soda and French fries. And he said, no, no, they're selling consistency. And this is why things like McDonald's and Starbucks and Target and things like that are so rampant and stultifying. Right. They're sort of. Sort of like creative ending because people are just. They just want to reach for what they absolutely know. And to go to that other restaurant, that other place that, like, you're saying you move into the new realm will probably be exciting and different.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But not going to consistency is deeply terrifying.

[Craig Thomas]

But if any of those companies want to advertise on this show, just give us a product. Is great how we made your mother.com.

[Alec Lev]

Click on content.

[Josh Radnor]

If you want to hear it. Yes. Yeah. Well, I also think, though, that we all have some combination that we have to figure out what's right for us. Like, there are certain morning routines that we. We love and when they support us and they. They support our kind of getting our head on straight in the morning. And we're. We're we're really. I think we're always navigating between newness and the kind of maintenance of what works or what. But the trap is when you fall into too much of a routine and too much of a rut and you don't have enough of that, like, unknowable kind of creative spark. But the good news is, I think the universe delivers you a lot of newness and change anyway, right? Like, you can't help but be. If you're. If you're paying attention, things are going to be changing. You know, Like, I heard this thing, you know, if you're having a hard moment, like, stay on the train, the scenery will change, you know, it's just gonna keep moving. Sorry, what was.

[Craig Thomas]

The river is. The river is never the same twice. Like, the idea of the Chinese restaurant is that right in practice, like, she's holding onto this apartment for comfort. And guess what? It's a fucking Chinese restaurant now. Whether. Whether you wanted it to become a Chinese restaurant or not, it has changed in your absence at the great lesson.

[Josh Radnor]

Of the final scene, which is. It's one of my. It's one of the great, I think, final scenes of the first season. Reason.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, is them all eating at the Chinese restaurant. But that is the solution, right? The solution is not I'm going to call someone to evict you to get you out of here. The solution is let's try the dumplings, because maybe this is going to be our new favorite Chinese restaurant in Queens, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's try the dumplings as like, a little bit of, like, a people will dance.

[Craig Thomas]

Can we make a T shirt of let's try the dumplings.

[Josh Radnor]

Let's try the dumplings. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Embrace.

[Josh Radnor]

But it turns out. It turns out they have a great meal there, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

They do. They do. And then they get a little reward by embracing change. They get a little reward of Marshall's voice wishing happy Valentine's Day 1998 to Lily. So there's like, it's sort of the past and change existing at the same time.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's all the way.

[Craig Thomas]

I loved that last scene. I forgot about the Chumbawamba song. And I forgot about. Marshall had put his voice over the mixtape, which was definitely a move people used to do when they made mixtapes in the 1990s. And God damn, I loved. I had the same thought. Joshua, this is an object lesson in embracing change. The fact that they're sitting there and having this meal in her apartment that is now a Chinese restaurant. I.

[Josh Radnor]

It Almost feels also like it was one of those moments where I was like, oh, I see why they wanted to create opportunities for the five of us to get around a table together, you know, like, whether it's at Burger New York or, like, just at the bar. But I remember you or someone, maybe Greg Malins, like someone said, like, we just realized that the show pops the most when it's five of you guys around the table.

[Craig Thomas]

We had to temper ourselves sometimes and say, we can't end every episode with a sweet pullback shot of the five of them at a thing. But God damn it, it did work so well whenever we did it and whenever we could do a new version of that at the Chinese restaurant, you're like, let's do it. It's so sweet. There's such a power to it. And it's a very sweet moment at the end of that episode.

[Josh Radnor]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you. New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now commercials.

[Josh Radnor]

Craig. Josh, I'm hungry.

[Craig Thomas]

How are we gonna solve that? What could we do?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I don't know. I mean, I could. I could go out on the streets of New York and go to a restaurant and get something, but I'm exhausted. It.

[Craig Thomas]

You want to stay home?

[Josh Radnor]

I want to stay home. I like it here. I've been on tour. I'm finally home. I don't want to move.

[Craig Thomas]

It's probably either cold, really cold, or really hot outside. I don't know which one. I don't know what season.

[Josh Radnor]

It's not perfect. Why would I go outside if it's not perfect?

[Craig Thomas]

I agree.

[Josh Radnor]

What do I. What do I do? I. I have to eat because I want to stay alive. That's the. That's the number one. But also, I like delicious things you like.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, I like. Here's a possible solution, because I want you to stay alive, and I know you like delicious things. Hellofresh. Guess what? Boom. It's a hellofresh ad. That's what's happening right now. Hellofresh makes it easier to fit quick home cooked meals in your schedule every week by curating delicious recipes like pasta primavera, chicken Dijon, and pecan. How do you say it? Pecan or pecan? I've had long debates about this. Different parts of the country, different pronunciations. Pecan crusted trout, as well as over 100 seasonal snacks, snacks, sides, and treats. That all sounds really good to me, Josh. That all sounds really delicious and, like, you can solve all of your problems.

[Josh Radnor]

I also like. I like fresh things, which is Good. It's. It's right in the title. It's fresh, but also it's like it's friendly. Hello Fresh. Do you know what I mean?

[Craig Thomas]

I do kind of know what you mean.

[Josh Radnor]

Hello.

[Craig Thomas]

I think you're so hungry you stopped making sense. You need the hello Fresh to show up right now.

[Josh Radnor]

I really do. I really do.

[Craig Thomas]

We are. They have. Have been kind enough to us. They have invited us to sample their stuff. We're. We're waiting for that amazing experience. We will update in the next installment of hellofresh. So this will end on a cliffhanger.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't want to stress out any of the people at the the company, but I am on a hunger strike until my hellofresh box comes and I'm withering away.

[Craig Thomas]

You are. You've lost a lot of weight.

[Josh Radnor]

I refuse to eat a thing until my hello Fresh.

[Craig Thomas]

Well, the payoff is going to be beyond your.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, every hellofresh meal uses. This is what I understand. High quality ingredients, including seasonal fresh produce proteins that travel from the farm to your doorstep. It can't come soon enough.

[Craig Thomas]

Get it there. He's about to. He's a woozy. Listen this. Flexible deliveries that you can pause or skip when you need. That's amazing because you do travel a lot, Josh. You've been touring. You could do it. You could stop it when you go on tour, but that's a great feature. Listen to this. Feel great with meals that fit your spring schedule. Make the season even more delicious. Go to hellofresh.com your mother 10fm now to get 10 free meals with a free item for life. What? A free Item for life. 1 per vlogs with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. We can't wait to get our version of this. Right, Josh, you are.

[Josh Radnor]

I gotta get some food.

[Craig Thomas]

We gotta get food. Hellofresh. Hurry, hurry. Fly like the wind.

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[Josh Radnor]

Craig, do you remember me and Jason Rehearsing with that fight choreographer.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. Only a little bit, though. Tell me about. Tell me. Remind me what that person was like. I have, like, a vague mental image. Keep in mind, I there for a lot of you rehearsing of that, you might not know this.

[Josh Radnor]

We're gonna have to. We're gonna have to dog you that task, Jason. I don't remember. I don't remember. I remember rehearsing with Jason. I remember getting very sweaty, both in rehearsal and when we shot it. And I remember both of us, it looked fun. Having the time of our lives.

[Craig Thomas]

It looked legitimately fun.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

You guys were so great together.

[Josh Radnor]

But that was one of those moments where I was like, I can't believe I'm getting paid to have a sword fight with my friend. Like, it was just so silly. But I do have a story that I think Jason has told before, but maybe just among us, but were we even nominated for an Emmy? First season. Did we go to the Emmys?

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, God, no.

[Josh Radnor]

No, no, no. We went. When we went. Were we nominated? Best comedy, season four.

[Craig Thomas]

One time only.

[Josh Radnor]

One time only.

[Craig Thomas]

And it was maybe. Oh, boy. Shouldn't I know that?

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know what.

[Craig Thomas]

The certificates on my wall behind me.

[Josh Radnor]

We were. We were at an award show. Okay. We're all sitting there. I don't know if it was the Emmys, but they're showing clips from other nominated comedies that are hilarious. Like, you know, the best clips, the best jokes, the best, whatever.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And for some reason, for how I met your mother, they chose the sword fight with me and Jason. But a moment that had zero jokes.

[Craig Thomas]

No jokes, no jokes, just me and.

[Josh Radnor]

Jason, like, talking shit to each other and banging swords. And in our memory, this didn't really happen, but in our memory, the whole audience went, boo. You know, just like, we hate you. And we just. We've. Over the years, we were all like, why didn't they choose that? I know, because it was an otherwise delightful episode. Maybe it was us pulling the swords down and getting right about to start, but we were so. There were so many other, like, comedically great moments that they could have. I don't know why they chose the swords, but it haunted me and Jason for years that we were held up as, like, that's the one you chose. And again, in the episode, in context, it's a great, hilarious moment. It's our Inigo Montoya and the man in Black, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Josh Radnor]

But it was so much fun to film. I also. So again, his Ted's, like, outrageous point. Making of Ordering the old English phone booth.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

To the apartment. This enormous eyesore that's just gonna be sitting in the middle of the room.

[Craig Thomas]

It's so big.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so big. And it's also like old timey. Like, he likes old timey things.

[Craig Thomas]

And yeah, it's all about holding onto the past. That whole episode, you and Jason, I feel like this is the most the two of you have gotten to play and bond in an episode so far in these eight. Right. Like, there's something your guys specific like, bro, like friend chemistry in this one that I think I texted you this the other night after watching it. But, like, there's something. I just buy that you guys, those two people are friends. Those two characters have been friends for years and years. There's not like this sitcom artifice where I feel like, yeah, it's these people pretending to be friends. They met a few weeks ago when we shot the pilot. There's just a real feeling that there's history there. There's something about your guys chemistry that does that. And it's just. It is magic and it's impossible to calculate or replicate. It just happens.

[Josh Radnor]

We can take some credit for it and we'll take it. On behalf of me and Jason, we'll take it. But I do also think the way you guys wrote that scene was it was all about historical wounds. Right. It was all about, well, what about this? And you did this. And so we got this place.

[Craig Thomas]

You said this. Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You fill in the backstory. But I do think, and I almost mentioned this in the episode with Koby, that a lot of times you'll watch the young, hip show, the young hip sitcom from that era or era before, after, and it really looks like they were cast. Like, it just looks like they were cast. And you guys look like, even though some people were more well known than others, it looked like you guys assembled a group of friends. And yes, we'll take some credit for that because I think we were good at playing it. But I think there was some wisdom in the casting that it wasn't. There were no miscastings to cast a show. Right. I would argue that any show that has a really long run was perfectly cast. Like, it has to be, because a miscasting in a crucial role will sink a show.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, some shows like Course Correct or start focusing on different things, but I think that you guys just knew how. You knew what you were looking for. You knew the feeling you wanted to invoke among the group of friends. And we Were able to kind of deliver that.

[Craig Thomas]

And Lily Ally is such a big part of that, too. Like, I really buy the friend chemistry of the three of you guys. And it's interesting in this one that Ted is at odds with the couple. Up till now, it's been, hey, mom and Dad, I met this awesome girl. And it's been, like, parental and, like, they're all on the same team. This is really interesting to have this, like, war between the three of you.

[Josh Radnor]

He's almost being like a snotty teenager to his parents. He's acting out.

[Craig Thomas]

But they both have good points. That's what's good. Both characters have a good point of why they should maybe get the apartment. And Ted's trying to pull the heartstrings and Marshall's not having was such a great sort of the sword fight and the verbal sword fight during that was really great. You and Jason played that beautifully. I will say this. Carter and I lived in the same apartment when we first moved to New Yorker, writing for Dave Letterman for about four and a half years. And Rebecca, my wife, who we all went to college together, Rebecca's kind of like Lily. I'm kind of like Marshall. Carter's kind of like Ted. Rebecca would stay with us a lot in those sort of early 20s. Like, she would stay over. She had a place in Brooklyn. She was living at home at first in Brooklyn, but she spent a lot of time in her apartment. And I'm sure some of this episode came from that. And it was Carter probably having a little bit of a catharsis of, like, yeah, Rebecca was always there. Carter loves Rebecca. Rebecca loves Carter, but he was the single guy.

[Josh Radnor]

Until her apartment turned into to a dim sum place.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. That part didn't quite happen in real life, but it's that idea of, like, that moment in your 20s when people just live together and need to live together financially. And then, like, what happens when something about Lily making it official even though she's not been home in months, something changes the vibe, Right? There's the Ted's. Ted is spooked. The cattle has been spooked by this idea that now she really lives there. And I love single Barney and single Robin kind of feeding Ted a little kind of miniago a little bit like, she's coming for you. You are being edged out, dude. And like, the single people kind of making Ted more paranoid was very funny in this episode and randomly kind of.

[Josh Radnor]

Bond also, it strikes me that, like, it didn't just rattle Lily that her apartment was overtaken by a Chinese restaurant rattles Ted like he needed Lily to have that other space, even if she's there for months. It was a piece. It was a peace of mind for him.

[Craig Thomas]

Peace of mind for him too. Yeah. No, I felt very sad for Ted because it did feel like it's, like it's plausible he is being edged out. It is highly plausible he's being edged out.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, there's also, like, people go through this at different phases, but there's this, there's this dream, and I think this is baked in from the very first moment of the pilot. There's this dream that we're best friends and we're going to do all these life things together. We're going to get married at the same time. We're going to have kids at the same time. Our kids are going to be friends with each other. We're going to do Thanksgiving and Christmas together. They're gonna do, you know, they're gonna do. We're gonna, we're gonna just go along this path together. But it doesn't happen that way. No, it doesn't. It almost never happens that way.

[Craig Thomas]

It's so childlike, that belief. But you believe it in your 20s, you're not a child and you're still kind of believing.

[Josh Radnor]

Maybe that's what is so hard about your twenties is you all go through elementary school together, you all graduate eighth grade together, you all go to high school together, you graduate high school together, you go to college together, you graduate college together. Like there's this, you know, there are these tiered years of progress that everyone's on the same schedule essentially. And you get out of school and some people go to grad school, some people don't. Some people join the workforce, some people go to big city, small city. Like it, it starts changing. Like the, your life isn't written yet, but the opening chapters are really starting. The ink is drying on them.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

So you start to feel like my friends are pulling away or I'm gonna be left behind.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm gonna be left behind. That's a very real 20s feeling. And that's what that is at the core of Ted's story in this. Right. I'm gonna be left behind.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. That's why I think it's part of Rob thing. Like who, who, where do I belong? You know, career stuff. I also think it's funny when you, when you live in a two person apartment with three people in your 20s, which we've all done.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like you. It's only in your 20s that you have the bandwidth and flexibility to do that.

[Craig Thomas]

You'll never do it again.

[Josh Radnor]

You'll never do it again. You can sleep on terrible mattresses and terrible couches and pop up and go to work the next day, but you hit 35 and you. You have a bad night's sleep on the wrong pillow.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, you got to call in sick, you know?

[Craig Thomas]

And the swords symbolize this thing. The swords just symbolize it. It's great. There's a lot of great. It's very Chekhovian. Right. It's very like. It's the rifle over the fireplace in act one is gonna have to fire in act three. Those crisscross swords on that wall. There's gonna be a duel with those swords.

[Josh Radnor]

I have a question, though. Were they there from day one?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. Right. Boy, that's a great question. Were they there from the pilot? I don't know. I think we snuck those in with this idea. I think we snuck those in with. I think we had this idea and snuck them in because we knew we were writing this and we put the swords on the wall at a certain point a little bit ahead of this episode. Holy crap. I wish I knew the. Can someone help us?

[Josh Radnor]

Can some hymn Internet sleuth just tell us if the swords were over?

[Craig Thomas]

I love that. We're so lazy.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. No, we can't even do it. I'm just curious.

[Craig Thomas]

I know that there must have been huge discussions about this, and we had this idea, and I think we got the swords on the wall just a little bit ahead of this episode. That's my memory.

[Josh Radnor]

But you know what else is funny is kind of like we slid the swords up there to then go. But these swords represent. They're the iconic swords above the piano. We've always had these.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

The worst. The worst answer is going to be we snuck them on just for that episode, and they were never up. And that's probably. That could be the truth. I'm trying to make us more clever than we really are. Alec, is that true?

[Alec Lev]

I've only asked my friend chatgpt, who does say the swords first appear on the wall in season one, episode eight, the duel.

[Craig Thomas]

Been there for years, dude. They represent our friendship from when they went up when props put them up 20 minutes ago.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't think Shocky ever made the iconic Himyom props list. But the swords are up there.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, the swords are iconic.

[Craig Thomas]

They became iconic, but yeah. Let's be honest.

[Josh Radnor]

But I also really love how you guys deal with the material world. Like you're Quite attentive to the material world and our attention, our fascination within, our connection to objects. Objects. I remember when I did Uncle Vanya in grad school at nyu, and I played Astrov, which is an incredible play, an incredible part. But Astrov is this county doctor, and he's a bit of an alcoholic, who's not a bit. He's an alcoholic, and he's trying not to drink. And he's in love with this woman, and this other woman's in love with him, like all Chekhov plays. But he's got these maps. He's an environmentalist, and he's got these maps where he's mapped out the degradation of the forests and how it's being environmentally, you know, degraded. And I had a teacher who said to me, he really loved my performance. And he said, I didn't think you were. You were connected enough to the maps. I didn't feel that they were your maps. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

That's a great note. What a. That's a great actor note.

[Josh Radnor]

I know. And I remember that always stayed with me of, like, fall. Fall in love with your props. Like. Like. Like, get that. You went into a flea market and bought this thing. Like. Like, just imagine how long you've had it, what it means to you. And I think I've gotten better at that over the years of having the props really be an extension of self or. Yeah. Like, they tip something off about your character, what you're connected to in the material world.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Everything has history, Everything has meaning. Right. The things we have, things we choose to put in this apartment, which is not a huge apartment, and there's three people living there. Ted's things will matter to him or the things he thought he shared with Marshall.

[Josh Radnor]

And she was almost like every flashback movie is. I mean, the Titanic is like. Isn't it like a jewel? Like, she looks at, like, you know, and it takes her back to the Titanic. Right. Like, yeah. There's so many objects of memory that cinematically signify something that bring all these memories rushing back. Like. Like, we're very objectifying people. You know, I heard. I read this thing. There's this Sufi book on music where he says music is the only form of art that's not idolatry, because it's not about objects. Every other art form deals with the visual on some level.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, that's really interesting.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think that's why music is probably the most spiritual, because we don't affix objects to it necessarily.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. It transcends the material world. Yeah, that's really interesting. This episode has a lot of that. Between Shaki and the swords. And then the new edition of the British phone booth, which is just this aggressive middle finger fuck you. To Marshall and Lily.

[Josh Radnor]

It's so fun.

[Craig Thomas]

Every item has meaning.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And the Chinese restaurant. Right. And then all the. All of Lily's things that are still there, that are her things. There's really an investigation of this thing. Who are. How do our things define us?

[Josh Radnor]

It almost feels like. Did you see the Broadway play Appropriate?

[Craig Thomas]

No.

[Josh Radnor]

It's about this family and this house and this long buried secret and all this stuff. There's a lot of objects in it. But the ending is they just show the next hundred years of the house, like real quick with this incredible effect. And trees kind of like come up through the floor and vines and they start kind of overtaking the house and bringing it almost back into the earth.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, man, I'm getting chills. That's incredible.

[Josh Radnor]

Right? It was a really great theatrical effect. It was pretty incredible. But it feels almost like the city, like, took Lily's apartment back. Like the city, like, reached out.

[Craig Thomas]

Nature grew up. A Chinese restaurant grew up.

[Josh Radnor]

The Chinese restaurant being like urban nature just grew up around it because she left it for too long.

[Craig Thomas]

I love that. I like that in our show. The kind of mystical quality of New York. These are magical things that happen in New York. We're trying not to do spoilers on the show, but there's a later idea, a little later in the show where there's a spot, this Bermuda Triangle spot, where if you put something out there in front of the apartment, it will disappear. You put something there you want to give away and it will just go. You won't see it going. It will just go. There's just somewhere that it has gone. And this idea of like Chinese restaurants overtaking, like a forest growing around, seeing.

[Josh Radnor]

Maury Povich walking around is so magical.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, the cockamouse, the cockamous. Like all of this idea of New York as this mystical, vaguely cryptozoological kind of almost like sentient character. New York of New York City is great.

[Josh Radnor]

Some of that I think Chinese restaurant. Some of that I think is you guys actually made New York magic. Which, if you live here long enough, you see that it actually is.

[Craig Thomas]

It is.

[Josh Radnor]

But the other thing is what memory does to stories which we've talked about. Like, you know, a 3 inch cockamouse becomes a 2 foot cockamouse by the time 20 years passes. You know, things get. Well, I mean, inflated and enchanted to.

[Craig Thomas]

Ill advisedly bring it back to 9 11. I will say that that idea of these things you think will always be there that then aren't right and then this idea of wanting what do hold on to in life, what can you even aspire to hold on to and should you? And change is the constant and all of these things. And it's, it's in this episode and I think it's in this series kind of writ large that is kind of the series.

[Josh Radnor]

So. All right, so we're going to close up this episode with what has become a Helmian tradition where where we read a longer Lovely Letter from How I Met yout Mot Fan. This one is from Italy. Is that right? Alec? Yeah. So I'll. I'll read this Dear Craig, Josh and Alec, actually everyone involved in making this legendary show. My name is Lucetta, but it is difficult to pronounce in English so I go by Lucy, but I think I pronounced it fine. And I'm an Italian fan of How I Met yout Mother. My relationship with the show started in late 2006 when season one aired here. I instantly wanted to catch up with all the past episodes and fell in love with the characters, the narration, each of Ted's stories, and their final moral. Now I would like to tell you a story linked with the matchmaker episode. In 2005 when Hymnym first aired in the US I was 12 and living the worst nightmare of being bullied at school and hurt by the boys I liked. So I stranded myself on my devices and eventually landed landed on the online chat community where I could meet new yet virtual friends. That's when I started text chatting with Giorgio, a 14 year old boy who lived in a town 15 minutes away from me. And we became really good friends from a distance. Years passed, we grew up and still haven't had the chance to meet in person. So in the meantime we matched with other people who turned into love interests. But there was something between us. I remember we used to talk on the phone about how I met your mother. He's a huge fan too, and plot theories together, talking about the existence of fate and real love. He stated that though those things didn't exist, if not in romantic novels or TV shows. So as Ted, sometimes throughout the series I continued to force myself into relationship with guys I deeply knew were bad for me. A little way down the road in 2012, I was on the train from Florence to the town my parents would pick me up in since I was coming back from first semester of university. You have to know that Me and Giorgio at this point felt there was chemistry between us, but we never had the courage to face it in person. Person. That's when our yellow umbrella, the Regional Train 3157, came to rescue our relationship. Definition. Because without knowing it, he took the same train I was on. Got in the same wagon, a few seats far away from me.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow.

[Josh Radnor]

Long story short, wait for it. We got married in 2017.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

Had our daughter in 2022. And celebrated ourselves 10th anniversary as a couple last November. We watched the show during Happy days, bad days. And was a constant presence during a full year of major depression. Salute. Major depression. She did.

[Craig Thomas]

She did. The major depression.

[Josh Radnor]

I've gone through when.

[Craig Thomas]

We really high difficulty.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm sorry to read this part. Major, major depression I've gone through. When we lost our first baby, it was really rough for us to continue our lives, but we made it through. Through. As Lily would say, it was a long, difficult road. Thank God we finally got here. Our story and Ted's story are very similar. And the moral to both is this. If you try to force destiny to happen sooner than scheduled, you will only make its happening seem very far away. But if you live, love, get hurt, learn to love again and be patient, what's meant for you is just around the corner waiting for you. So thank you, Craig and Carter. Thank you, writers. Thank you, Josh, Kobe, Alison, Jason and Neil for giving me hope that something beautiful could happen even to an underdog. Bullied. Still huge believer in something good happening. Little girl from Italy, the highest male, five to y' all. Lucy.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow, Lucy. I mean, we're so honored that you would share that story with us. It's beautiful. I'm so happy the show meant that to you. I'm so happy the show could be part of you meeting, meeting the love of your life. And yes, life just keeps happening, doesn't it? And the fact that the show was influential to you at that time and helped you meet Giorgio is that. I hope I'm not getting the name wrong. Amazing. What an honor that the show could be that to you and continue to mean something to you guys as you continue through life's journey together. Thank you so much for sharing.

[Josh Radnor]

Craig, have you ever thought you and Carter like Matt Rice saying, like, how I met your mother? That's the one, right?

[Craig Thomas]

That's our agent, Matt Rice. The great Matt Rice. Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

And you realizing, like, oh, yeah, this is. This is not hard to write. This is actually fun to write because we know these people, we know this world. We know, we're their ages. So you write this thing that's very personal. And we're still talking about it 20 years later. Like, the cascade of events from the show in all our lives, which we're definitely unpacking on this show. But also Lucy and Giorgio, like, their lives changed because you. And because Matt Rice was like, that's the idea. How I made money. It's the right idea. And. And CBS was looking for a show about young people at that moment. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

We don't want Mad Rice to get too big of a head. I mean, let's not give him all the credit. No. The great Mad Rice. Sorry, agent.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. But I hear from people all the time who are like, you know, I started watching your show because my friend recommended it, and then we realized we were in love with each other. Like, babies have been. Babies have been born because of how I met your mother.

[Craig Thomas]

And we've heard it. We've heard that story many, many times now on this podcast. And just in the last 20 years that people have met, babies have been born. And it's just. I can't. I almost can't comprehend it. You know what I mean? It's. You do feel like you write this thing. It's like a little message in a bottle. You throw it out into the ocean, and then you. You realize it.

[Josh Radnor]

It fills.

[Craig Thomas]

It found the people that you hoped it would find, and then it meant more to them than you ever could have dreamed. And honestly, it is incredibly humbling and beautiful. And I just. I'm so grateful to the fans for finding it and for sharing with us what it has meant to them. And I know Carter feels that way. It is the greatest honor, and Josh feels that way, and the whole cast feels that way. Pam, everybody who made the show, we put so much love into it, and we sent it out into the world, and it just. It found some amazing people, including the person who just told us their story. And that's the dream, right? To borrow a phrase in the show, that's the dream. That's why you try to write stuff or make stuff and put it in the world. You dream that something like that could happen, but you don't know if it will.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, it's almost like being a musician, and, like, lots of people fell in love to your song or had their first dance at their wedding to your song, and it becomes their song.

[Craig Thomas]

It's not yours anymore. It's their thing. And there's something beautiful about that, because the show isn't us. The show's not you. The show's not me. It's a thing we did, and now it belongs to everybody else.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, Elizabeth Gilbert has that idea of, like. Ideas are like these almost corporeal things that are just floating around the atmosphere, waiting for a person to grab them and make them. And if you don't grab the idea, someone else is going to grab it and they'll write your novel or your TV show. So if you think it's yours, you better grab the idea. You better and do it. There's something about it, about how I met your mother. Like, the story of a father telling his kids the story of how he met their mother, like, way back in the. Like. It was just an idea that wanted to be.

[Craig Thomas]

It was an idea that wanted to be.

[Josh Radnor]

It had its own force and its own will and drive, and it found you guys, and you were willing recipients of it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I think that's right. I think it needs to be that sort of. You need to be that humble in the face of the thing and say the thing. This is some bigger thing, and we got to be part of it. And God, getting to share it with. With the fans, like, this is. Is truly a gift. So thank you all.

[Josh Radnor]

Thanks, everybody.

[Craig Thomas]

Sharing your story.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Thank you, Lucy, if you do. If anyone out there does want to let us know what how I met your mother meant to them, whether it's a voice memo, which maybe we'll play on the show, or a letter we'll read. You know, it can be silly. It can be funny, it can be touching. It can be heartbreaking. Like, we just want to hear the variety of experience you've had with this show, what it means to you. So go to how we madeyourmother.com contact and what does it say? Just tell your story or share.

[Alec Lev]

Right there you'll have links to how you can send those voice messages or you could type a message right into it on that page.

[Josh Radnor]

Okay, great. Well, thanks so much as ever for listening. If you're loving what you're hearing, please tell your how I met your mother. Loving friends that we're doing this and join us because we love this campfire that we've built that we get to sit around and tell these stories and we love more of you to join us. So thanks for joining us today and we'll see you next time. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How we made your mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by Me Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer, producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's muse letters on Substack. Read Craig Thomas's published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My Dead Father Society also on Substack, to learn about how you make Make a Difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing provided by Tink Media. People will in fact dance the real.

[Josh Radnor]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with with you or just New York City?

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