How We Stayed Up All Night | S1E6 "The Slutty Pumpkin"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother: Episode Summary – S1E6 "The Slutty Pumpkin"

Release Date: April 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of How We Made Your Mother, hosts Josh Radner and Craig Thomas delve into the sixth episode of the first season of How I Met Your Mother titled "The Slutty Pumpkin." They explore the intricacies of the episode, unpacking character developments, underlying themes, and the lasting impact the episode has had on fans and the show's legacy.

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Episode Overview: "The Slutty Pumpkin"

Summary: "The Slutty Pumpkin," written by Brenda Shea, is centered around Ted Mosby's annual quest to find the enigmatic woman he met at a Halloween party four years prior. Clad in his signature hanging chad costume, Ted's persistent belief in fate and true love drives him to attend the same party each year, hoping to reconnect with her.

Key Discussions:

• Plot Dynamics: Craig Thomas explains, “There's a party every year. Ted went to it several years earlier, met a woman, it's a slutty pumpkin. And got her number and lost the number. And this is his quest to get back to that same annual Halloween party...” ([03:06])

• B Story – Robin’s Character Exploration: The episode also delves into Robin's personality, showcasing her as Ted's foil—independent, somewhat aloof, and struggling to open up emotionally. Craig notes, “...we’re getting even past that into this feeling for her of, why am I this way?” ([04:44])

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Themes and Insights

Attachment Theory Analysis: Alec Lev introduces an analysis based on attachment styles, suggesting Ted exhibits an anxious attachment style, characterized by a fear of abandonment, while Robin demonstrates an avoidant attachment style, marked by a desire for independence and fear of engulfment.

• Ted’s Anxious Attachment: Alec states, “...Ted has an anxious attachment style... he cling a little too strongly because you're so afraid of being abandoned.” ([07:55])

• Robin’s Avoidant Attachment: He continues, “...Robin has an avoidant attachment style. She fears engulfment and seeks markers of individuation like having her own ice cream sundae.” ([07:55])

Hope and Rituals: The hosts discuss Ted's ritualistic behavior as a form of maintaining hope, likening it to religious rituals meant to commemorate and sustain belief.

• Craig reflects, “...the slutty pumpkin is just representative of hope.” ([26:31])

Character Dynamics: Barney’s early portrayal as a trickster with grandiose schemes contrasts with Ted’s genuine quest for love, highlighting the diverse approaches to relationships within the friend group.

• Alec observes, “...Barney has these grand plans for this Victoria's Secret yacht party... he continues with his suitcase full of tricks and costume changes.” ([17:40])

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Production Memories and Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Song Selection – "NYC" by Alec Radner: Craig recalls the excitement of integrating indie music into the show, specifically the song "Inside of Love" by Nada Surf.

• “[...] we drove around in cars listening terrestrial radio stations. And I remember finding that song and coming to our music supervisor, Andy Gowen...” ([36:43])

Collaborations with Notable Writers: The episode features contributions from writers Chris Miller and Phil Lord, whose unique comedic styles enriched the show's humor with animated and visual gags.

• Craig shares, “...they wrote the great Thanksgiving episode of season one, Belly Full of Turkey... Their fingerprints are all over it in the best way.” ([46:50])

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Listener Testimonials: Matteo’s Story

A poignant moment in the episode features a heartfelt letter from Matteo Camarada, an Italian fan whose life was profoundly impacted by the show.

Matteo’s Journey: Matteo describes how How I Met Your Mother served as an anchor during his battles with anxiety and depression, inspiring him to write a novel titled Il Sapore della Vita ("The Flavor of Life").

• Matteo writes, “...How I Met Your Mother has been and continues to be a piece of my life.” ([48:49])

Hosts’ Response: Josh and Craig express deep gratitude and humility, acknowledging the show's role in Matteo's personal growth and creative endeavors.

• Craig remarks, “That's the best. The letters like that have been so amazing.” ([51:03])

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Conclusion

How We Made Your Mother Episode S1E6 provides an in-depth exploration of "The Slutty Pumpkin," highlighting the episode's significance in character development and thematic depth. Through thoughtful analysis and personal anecdotes, Josh Radner and Craig Thomas celebrate the enduring legacy of How I Met Your Mother, illustrating how the show resonates deeply with its audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Craig Thomas on Robin’s Complexity: “...we are getting into these characters as these episodes are going in season one and saying we can find new speeds.” ([04:46])

• Alec Lev on Ted’s Optimism: “...the central idea of, like, the faith keeping aspect of him is part of his heroism.” ([28:46])

• Craig Thomas on Ted’s Ritual: “...the slutty pumpkin is just representative of hope.” ([26:31])

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Timestamp Highlights:

• [03:06]: Introduction to "The Slutty Pumpkin" episode plot.
• [04:44]: Exploration of Robin's character flaws and motivations.
• [07:55]: Discussion on attachment theory and character dynamics.
• [26:31]: Symbolism of hope through Ted’s ritual.
• [36:43]: Behind-the-scenes on song integration.
• [46:50]: Contributions of Chris Miller and Phil Lord.
• [48:49]: Matteo’s testimonial on the show's impact.
• [51:03]: Hosts’ appreciation for listener stories.

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Final Thoughts:

This episode not only dissects a pivotal moment in How I Met Your Mother but also underscores the show's profound influence on its viewers. Through engaging dialogue and sincere reflections, How We Made Your Mother offers a comprehensive look at why "The Slutty Pumpkin" remains a beloved and meaningful installment in the series.

Transcript

[Josh Radner]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radner]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

Hello, it's George here. I'm 26 and I live in Manchester in the UK. How I met your mother has meant different things to me through the years. I started watching it when I was like 16, 17 and I think then it was just a fun show about adults living in New York. I think now I'm 26, it's a little bit different. I've just restarted watching it in prep for this podcast and I've clocked that. Oh my God. Yeah, I'm almost Ted's age, which was first kind of daunting in this world where I'm, you know, trying to adult and stuff. But actually the more I thought about it, I think is actually really exciting that if Ted's journey starts, you know, in the show when he's 27, I guess I've still got a lot ahead of me. Yeah, it's my absolute comfort. Watch. I love it. I'm a massive podcast nerd as well. So super excited for this. Love you. Bye. I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Well, hello friends. Welcome to another episode of How We Made youe Mother where Craig Thomas, the co creator of How I Met yout Mother and me, Josh Radner, played Ted Mosby. We're rewatching the whole show How I Met yout Mother all nine seasons and we're meeting every week and we're talking about it and here I am with my bud, Craig Thomas. Hello, Craig, Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

Hello my friend. It's good to be here with you, buddy. That was an amazing and it made me feel a little old hearing someone that was 16 and then now they're like, I'm creeping up on 27. It's getting up there. It's, buddy, you're young. You're so young. But of course.

[Alec Lev]

But I think there was a sweetness to him. He's like, oh, I got nine years of adventure ahead of me.

[Craig Thomas]

Totally, totally. And I love that. That was the takeaway to that comment, how he sees the show. We are so here with our producer, Alec Lev. Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

[Josh Radner]

Hey, everyone. Well, we are talking about the slutty pumpkin today. This was written by Brenda Shea. The sixth episode of the first season, originally released October 24, 2005. And in response to many people's requests that we start off with a nice summary of the show.

[Craig Thomas]

There's a party every year. Ted went to it several years earlier, met a woman, it's a slutty pumpkin. And got her number and lost the number. And this is his quest to get back to that same annual Halloween party and with his heart full of hope and belief and faith, see if he can find her, find her again. And then the B story has to do with exploring Robin Cherbotsky's sort of anti Ted, how unlike Ted she is, and how hard it is for her to sort of open up and connect to somebody. Which I really rewatching this episode, I really liked how we got kind of under the hood of like, Robin's psyche in this episode and kind of started seeing, like, what are her flaws? How is she crazy? This is not a very quick synopsis. You know what I mean? I'm just diving right in.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. So I obviously haven't seen this. I think the slutty Pumpkin kind of looms large in how I met your mother lore. Yes. She comes back later, he actually does meet her, and there's great twists and turns up ahead six years later. So it was another great contribution to the kind of lore of the show and a symbol of the show. But what were. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it in 20 years. So, like, what were the things you remembered fondly that you remained fond of? And what were the things that jumped out at you that surprised you that you hadn't thought that you hadn't remembered?

[Craig Thomas]

It's funny, something about watching this one last night, my first thought in the opening, very specific thought was, oh, David, Henry is a grown up now. I follow him on Instagram and he has two children and he's an adult with his own two children. This is the actor who plays Ted's son. For some reason, that opening shot of the couch. And those kids broke my heart. I was like, david Henry's an adult with children.

[Alec Lev]

Lindsay has kids, too. Lindsay Fonseca has kids.

[Craig Thomas]

Fonseca, too. A mom to children. And I'm like, these kids are all grown up. For some reason, that hit me very hard this time. That has nothing to do with the specifics of this episode. But once I got over that feeling of, oh, my God, we're all. Time's going too fast, I really liked. One of my takeaways from this that I liked was that Robin, in the first few episodes, in the first couple episodes, she's this ideal, right? She's this impossible, kind of perfect projection of Ted. He's a projection of what Ted wants to get, right? He wants to be with this woman who he doesn't even know that well, but has idealized her in his brain. Then a few episodes in, we sort of realized Robin can be funny. We gave her that storyline where she's a reporter and she's sort of Barney's daring her to do dumb stuff on the air. And I was like, oh, yeah, Robin's funny, too. This is great. Robin can also be funny and flawed and just that sort of striving side of Robin that we see in that episode and also in, okay, awesome, where she wants to be important and, like, known and get in the VIP room. And this one I really liked because we're getting even past that into this feeling for her of, why am I this way? Why am I a bit cold? Why am I somebody who doesn't want to be a we? Why do I have to be an I? And I really liked that about this episode. That really struck me just in terms of the writing and how we're sort of, like, getting into these characters as these episodes are going in season one and saying we can find new speeds. Every couple of episodes, we were finding new things out about these characters. And in this one, it was what's inside of Robin's brain and heart a little bit.

[Alec Lev]

And also, it's good not just for the audience, but it's almost like. I mean, Ted wasn't around for much of that storyline. He was in his own party mode with Barney. But to make her dimensional, I mean, any object of adoration or idealization has to come back down to earth. And I think when we put people on pedestals, they end up resenting us for doing it, because they know that they are just a flawed human being like every other human being, right? But I did. You know, we talked about this last week in In. Okay, awesome. But I. You guys really, I think, did write this show before attachment theory had become like, in vogue. But it is. It is becoming more and more clear to me as I watch this that Ted has an anxious attachment style and Robin has an avoidant attachment style. And the way that you can. Can very simply identify what your attachment style is when in relationship, when intimacy comes into your life, do you fear engulfment or do you fear abandonment? And if you fear abandonment, you. You. You probably have an anxious attachment style. And that means you cling a little too strongly because you're so afraid of being abandoned. And if you fear being engulfed, you do what Robin did in the episode. You want your own ice cream sundae. You want to have these markers of individuation. Like, I am not a we. I am my own person. Get away from me. And then the person who is coming at you with their wess weus, you don't want anyone get kids. If someone approaches you with their weeness.

[Craig Thomas]

If you take one thing away from this podcast, don't let anyone just come at you.

[Alec Lev]

So when they come at you with that. With that, that stuff, you're going to. You're going to push them away. You're going to say, I don't. That I need space. And I feel like I'm drowning here, right? And when people, when people like, are you like. Or they think I'm like Ted, it's like, no, sadly, I was more like Rob. Like, I had a more Before I got married and before I did some work on myself, I had a much more avoidant attachment style. So it's fascinating to watch it being played out so clearly in actually both of these storylines.

[Craig Thomas]

It really is. That's what these storylines are. And at the end they come together. And I just. I love the moment. I love the credit it gives Ted. When Robin says in this kind of this way that's half exasperated and half very deeply envious and appreciative, she says to him, how do you do it, Ted? Yeah, and there's just something about that that could be the line for the whole goddamn series. How do you do it, Ted? How do you go through all of these things? And how do you stay there? And how do you stay with it? How do you stay hopeful? And there's something a little insane about staying as hopeful as Ted stays. And yet there's something so sweet about it too.

[Alec Lev]

I will say I think the plane is landed in this episode as good as any How I Met yout Mother episode. The final scene with them. With the. Not a surf song.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. Not a surf. We can't.

[Alec Lev]

It's just killer. It's just so good. It's so moving. I remember watching it initially and being, like, really moved by it, and I thought, this is a really cool show to be on you. Also, there was something about Ted's energy. Like, he's the most relaxed around Robin he's ever been. I mean, he's a little drunk. He's like, you know, he's. But one thing I really liked, and I had kind of forgotten, it wasn't like Ted became this hopeless romantic on day one of the pilot, what this does. His commitment to wearing the hanging chad costume and trying to see the slutty pumpkin again and again and again every year is part of the lore among his friends that they repeat the story and they know the details.

[Craig Thomas]

I love how they told the story and interrupted him. They know every line of the story. I love the shared history there.

[Alec Lev]

That was great.

[Craig Thomas]

That's great. In episode five or six, whatever we are here, sexy.

[Josh Radner]

I also love the implication. It's not just that they know the story so well. It's that Ted has clearly told this story so many times that they know the words he's going to use to tell it.

[Craig Thomas]

There was something really sweet about that. I really like that, and I really. Josh, that last scene is kind of everything in this episode. I would say that last scene is one of my favorite last scenes of a Himyum episode and certainly a season one hymnum episode, because in part because of how you played it. You played it so great. That feeling for Ted. He knows it's absurd. He says to Robin, I know it's ridiculous to sit. I know she's not gonna walk through that door. I know this slutty pumpkin's not gonna walk through that door. But this is as good a place as I need to sit and wait. And the confidence with which Ted says that is really. He has a real charisma in that moment. And you don't think he's crazy? You think, Robin thinks, I want some of that. I want to be a little more like that. And that gives Ted this higher status.

[Alec Lev]

That's what I was struck by. Like, we definitely defend our world views, like. Like, very strongly, you know? But at the same time, like, if you run cynical and pessimistic, some people really defend that, you know? But I suspect, and I know this to be the case, when I drop into pessimism or cynicism, I find myself needing to be around optimistic people being a little bit jealous of a more silver lining detecting crowd. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Alec Lev]

And I think she's saying, look, I clearly have a thing that gets activated in me. This fear of engulfment, this fear of collapsing into another person and losing myself. But I don't want to stay this way forever because I might. I won't be able to have what Marshall and Lily have. Which looks really appealing to her, I think. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Josh.

[Alec Lev]

Your hair, and I mean your hair alone, mine is so much more than what you see when you look in the mirror.

[Craig Thomas]

Do you know that? This is so nice to hear. You've never seen anything about my hair.

[Alec Lev]

I've rarely commented on your hair. When I look at your hair, I see stress, I see nutrition, I see hormones and I see lifestyle. Do you know what I'm saying? So many internal factors are affecting what I'm seeing right now in your hair.

[Craig Thomas]

I can't believe how much you're looking at and talking about my hair, but please continue.

[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

Yet all over your whole body. No, that's not what that means.

[Alec Lev]

This is. We're just talking about the dome.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

I'm gonna one up ya. There was even a clinical study where 72% of men saw more scalp coverage after taking Neutrophil men hair growth supplement for six months. And 86% of women saw improved hair growth after taking Nutrafol women hair growth supplement for six months. That's. Those are high numbers. Those are high numbers, Josh.

[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Alec Lev]

And now back to the show. Marshall and Lily are so. Marshall and Lily in this episode. Like, they're so in sync with their costume. And I think it's the debut of.

[Craig Thomas]

Marshmallow and Lily Pad as their nicknames. I think that was the debut which led to that. Great. I think that was the setup of a joke. Because the joke after that is that Robin attempts a name for Mike, and it's Mike Row Wave Oven, which I love so much, is so awkward. She's so bad at this.

[Alec Lev]

Row Wave Oven.

[Craig Thomas]

But it's funny because I think Marshmallow and Lily Pad was probably just like the setup to that joke. But then Marshmallow and Lily Pad lasted the whole rest of the series.

[Alec Lev]

I also, there's something about no matter what Halloween costume you put Alyson Hannigan in, she looks adorable. She wears, like, outrageous things so well and confidently.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's the confidence with which she wears it. The bird.

[Alec Lev]

I mean, she looks like she. She's like, not wearing a silly costume. Like, she just looks like. This is just what I wanted to wear today. So that. Yeah, that was great. And I. Yeah, I just found. Okay, so this is another little thing that delighted me. And this actually was an improv. I remember this. I made the decision. The acapella group is on the roof. They're about to sing. And I made the decision that Ted loves acapella.

[Craig Thomas]

I really found myself noticing that.

[Alec Lev]

And not only that he's a particularly big fan of this group of guys.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes, he's dancing to the acapella.

[Alec Lev]

But I remember in the. Not the table read, but in the run through when they announced them, I Remember going, yeah, like he's at a heavy metal show. Just like a hardcore acapella fan. And I thought it was really revealing of Ted as a product of, like, a liberal arts college where he was, like, front row.

[Craig Thomas]

There were ten competing acapella groups. Ted may have briefly been in one. The other. Wesleyan really was like that, or he.

[Alec Lev]

Didn'T get into one. And it always burned him, you know, always a bridesmaid. But that was a. That was a thing. I really. It was. It's so subtle. Like, he's just behind Barney, kind of.

[Craig Thomas]

Like going, I love that you made that choice. That's so funny to me that you consciously made that choice. Yeah, I was. Del. Forgot that obviously this episode is very much a shout out to It's a Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown. Am I saying the title of that right? I'm sorry. It's a Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown. And I had forgotten that the acapella group sings the Linus and Lucy theme, the theme from Peanuts. Underneath one whole scene. You hear it. I'm not gonna sing it. We have to pay money right out. But they performed that song, and it's kind of great. It's kind of a great a cappella version of the Charlie Brown music. Peanuts music. And I had forgotten that completely until watching last night.

[Alec Lev]

Alec, you want to.

[Josh Radner]

No. We could also just talk a little bit about what. What Barney is doing in this episode.

[Alec Lev]

Oh, yeah. That's actually what I. What I did want to talk about, which is Barney has these grand plans for this Victoria's Secret yacht party.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But he won't leave.

[Craig Thomas]

He won't leave. Ted, you talk about attachment theory. Barney has attachment?

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. I don't even know if that's been diagnosed yet. But he. He won't leave him. And he continues. I mean, I think this was in some ways also the beginning of, like, Master of Disguise. A little bit. I mean, there was a little bit in Sweet Taste of Liberty.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But he definitely, like, he comes with a suitcase full of tricks and costume changes.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

You know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. And Neil loves that in real life. Neil loves that stuff. Neil does magic. Neil. Neil has, like, magic props. And I think it might have been Neil's idea where he said, like, when I'm the devil, I should make fire. I should make a spark appear. And you'd say to Neil, like, oh, great, we'll get someone. And Neil would always go, I got a guy. I got a magic guy. Like, okay, so you're going to. You're going to bring in the crazy, like, flame thing. Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

You know, you know what else made me laugh? Like Neil's when he. He's in the second costume and he tries to pick up the hula girl again.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

And just is kind of like he goes into this like, like real, real like square jawed kind of like faux casual thing. That really made me laugh.

[Craig Thomas]

It's really funny. I apologize for my gender. He's like the cool guys. Can you believe these guys here? And then he f up like two seconds later. And the angel and devil joke is an all timer.

[Alec Lev]

The angel and devil joke is fantastic. Yeah, yeah. It's a very. It's Animal House, but it's updated.

[Craig Thomas]

And the angel just wants weed. The angel has nothing good to say. Just wants to score some weed.

[Josh Radner]

I'm still trying to calculate this. If you don't know the breadth of the whole show. Is Barney remotely successful with women through these first six episodes, like, at all?

[Craig Thomas]

It is definitely apparent that he's not having much success in the first. He does in the purple. He hooks up with that girl, the woman who's like friend of Carlos. He does successfully hook up with her, but then can't get rid of her and then is jealous at the end. So even when he wins, he loses a little bit. In these first few episodes. Yeah, he's not.

[Alec Lev]

But you also get the feeling he's not blaming himself for striking out. He's saying this party's lame. Like, we gotta go where I know there's better, there's greener pastures elsewhere.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Always blame the situation about himself. Yeah, I'm enjoying that. About these early episodes where I'm really. This was the concept of Barney. There may have been too many times we did. We might have had runs where he was too successful with women. And then it became sort of like too literal. Like, Barney is a parody of a certain kind of guy. And in these first episodes I'm really feeling that. And his neediness for wanting to be Ted's best friend is so. I find it so endearing. In these early episodes, he just. Yeah, exactly like you said, Josh. Like, he can't even go to the cool party. He can't go because Ted won't be there. He has to be around Ted.

[Alec Lev]

Well, I think for some reason he thinks of Ted as like. Like he feels like when he has him as a wingman or he can be Ted's wingman.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

You know, there are certain friends, for whatever reason, that give you more courage, like when you're with them.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Alec Lev]

I don't know what that is. Like, it's a. It's a strange phenomenon where you're, like, a little more socially courageous when so and so is by your side. Yeah, I think he has a little of that. I was also struck by, you know, Robin's relationship with this guy who seems perfectly nice.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

You know.

[Josh Radner]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

I love. I actually thought it was incredibly good writing and incredibly cutting writing how he ended things with her.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it was brutal.

[Alec Lev]

Like, she says, we're breaking up. And he says, no, I'm breaking up with you. Like, if that's how you. If that's how you want it, like, you get your wish. Right. And I think there. I think, you know, when I think back on Return of the Shirt, you know, it's ineffable. Or Robin not being able to just fully relax into the coupleness with this guy. There's something. I think dating is so confusing, and I don't think it's gotten any better in the last 20 years. I think it's probably. I have a. You know, my wife and I have some single friends who are just the greatest, and they've stopped online dating. They've stopped dating. Like, they're just, like, It's a mess out there. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

And I think that how I met your mother is just. It's very brilliant at showing the ups and downs of dating. You know, you get excited, and then you're like, it's not quite there. And it's. You know, I just think it's a real honest portrayal of how hard it is out there.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. And I like the glimpse it gives us at Robin. Like, why isn't it working for her? She says, outline, like, dudes are such chicks. Like, the idea that she just perceives this neediness on the. She sees it as neediness. Right. This person wanted to connect with her. She sees that it's sort of needy and weak. And I love that in series television, you have the chance to explore why when you extend the timeline forward. And maybe we didn't even know at the time we had a hint of it. We knew some ideas, but as you go. And I don't want to do spoilers, trying not to do too much of that episode by episode. But as you go deeper in the series, you see us trying to dig deeper into her psyche and say, why is she like that? And we learn things about her own father and her upbringing in Canada and who she was. I will own one error that we made in this episode. I really liked the roof scene, but we made a big error by saying not an error in the moment, but an error later, kind of where Robin says, I never played team sports as a kid, I played tennis. I wanted to be a fiercely individual, which was a good way in the moment of that episode to show that side of her ruggedly individual. But then later in series, we said that she was a hockey player and showed stuff about that she was on the hockey team. So we completely. We screwed that one up a little bit.

[Alec Lev]

But one other thing, though, about. I think it's really smart to have made Robin the avoidant one and make Ted the more anxious attacher, because the cliche is the opposite, Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Alec Lev]

Like, the woman is going to want all those things, and the man's going to be like, you know, I want my freedom. But I think what you guys were exploring, and I don't think you invented this. I think Carter was, you know, riffing on his own hopes and dreams and. And you certainly, you know, said yes to a. To a relationship and a marriage, like, on the younger side. So I think that they're. The amount of guys I hear from who say, like, I'm just like Ted. Like, I'm really. I feel. I think that. I think that you were satisfying, like, a market demand for, like, a more emotionally centered community of. Community of vulnerable men who.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

Who weren't just. Just interested in getting laid. I mean, Ted has a healthy libido, but he. He really wanted to. To meet someone and connect with someone in the deepest way. So I. I continue to think that this whole show was a genius kind of gender flip.

[Craig Thomas]

It's interesting to see how many times it comes up in these first six even. Right. It really is in the genetics of the show to do that kind of gender flip and do. And suggest that Ted has this open heart, he wants to connect, and that Robin has really, really hard time. She's terrified of that.

[Alec Lev]

I also think there's something for Robyn about, you know, when you have an avoidant attachment style, a lot of times you're afraid you actually were wounded in an intimate way, like you were wounded emotionally, so you protect yourself. And I think what she sees with Ted is that o. Oh, this is the guy who says, who is who he says he is. Yes, he is who his friends claim that he is. And so much of dating, like, I remember when I would date in New York or la, like, a lot of times, you know, you meet people you work with or you're. You're set up, but sometimes you meet, like, a person in the world, like, in line at or something, and you're like, I'm going out with a complete stranger. Like, I don't know any of these people's friends. I have no connection to this person. Like, they're just a complete, you know, mystery. And I think, like, we. You know, you. You end up, like, historically, people ended up marrying people who lived within a couple miles of them. Right. Because the families knew each other and the. You know, and New York can be so big and so overwhelming. And we talked about chosen family. Right. And. And finding your tribe. And I think Ted is coming into focus for Robin in this episode as someone who is. Who is reliable and who is. Who can be depended upon and who. In some ways, you can roll your eyes and laugh at some of his quirks and eccentricities, but it's ultimately, like, the best part about him, and it's the very thing that's gonna make him a great husband.

[Craig Thomas]

And I think part of it is how cool Ted is in that scene he owns how absurd his night has been. This has been an absurd pursuit. And once a year, I do this absurd ritual, and it's really about the ritual of keeping faith. The slutty pumpkin. Horrible name be damned. As Lily points out. What if she does become the wife? The slutty pumpkin is just representative of hope. Right. It's the Shawshank Redemption debate. Is hope a good thing?

[Alec Lev]

I mean, it's like Jews lighting the menorah. You know, it's a commemoration of something that happened. There's a ritual that's to say, like, we're gonna keep the favor.

[Craig Thomas]

And his faith in Robin at the end is such a gift. At the end of that episode, he says to her, you just haven't found the right guy yet. You have terrible taste in men. Cause you didn't choose me. But at some point, some guy will come along, he'll be the right guy, and you'll feel all those things that you're saying. I really love how vulnerable Robin is. And Coby played it great in that scene where she's essentially saying, am I broken? Is there something wrong with me? And that's why Inside of Love was, like, the perfect song by the. Not a surf song. That's what that song is asking. Right.

[Alec Lev]

It's also the beginning, I think, of another aspect of their relationship. Ted is one of Robin's great pep talkers.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Alec Lev]

Like, he really meets her. He's really there for her when she's, like, at her lowest.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You played that scene so great. I don't want to awkwardly compliment you. Or maybe you'll enjoy the compliment. You played that scene with such confidence. It wasn't that Ted was absurd or crazy. Ted was in that scene. The twist at the end of that episode is Ted was doing the right thing. He's doing something completely crazy. He's wearing a hanging chad outfit from four years ago. And in the end. And don't we all want to be a little more like Ted than Robin? And even Robin has to come up to that roof. Kind of like as if coming to this wiser person on high and saying, give me some of this.

[Alec Lev]

There's that great quote about, like, reasonable people never change the world, therefore all progress depends on unreasonable people.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Alec Lev]

That is like. It's a little like that. Right?

[Craig Thomas]

Ted is a wise, like, the tribal elder. At the end of that episode, she comes up to him, climbing up to his wisdom and asks him, where do I get a little bit of that? Where do I get a little bit of the thing that makes you sit here like this?

[Alec Lev]

And he also, much, much like we were talking about in the bonus episode around, okay, awesome. Is like, for some reason there's something he didn't get that knocked out of him. Like, he didn't like being, you know, crossing the threshold of 25 or whatever. He. He still has this feeling like, no, we can create. We can. And some of it, again, some of it's delusion, some of it he needs to shed.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But the central idea of, like, the faith keeping aspect of him is part of his heroism.

[Josh Radner]

I think something unique about the show now that I'm hearing, we're sort of reviewing where Ted does something a little crazy, but it's actually the right thing. Ted says, I love you on the first date. I feel like this is not usually the central character of a show, that the central character kind of holds down the fort of logic a little bit. And whether it's Hawkeye or Sam Malone or even Jerry, you know, they're kind of sort of holding things in the middle and crazy people around them do crazy things. But that. The eye in your title does crazy things, but you keep on ending with, no, no, no, those are right. Those are what we want.

[Alec Lev]

I would say yes. I would say yes to all that. Except. And this is why Ted was a much more interesting leading character than a lot of leading characters. The thing you're describing about normal sitcoms, I did that with Barney. I had to do that for nine years with Barney because Barney's like, insane around me. And I'm like, hey, hey, let's be normal. Let's be centered. Let's be sane. Whereas compared to Robin, Ted is the more eccentric one. Right. At least in matters of the heart.

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely. And yeah, I think that's right. I think it's Ted. Ted is different things to different people, but he is the sort of. He is the anchor of the show. And he does something incredibly illogical and unreasonable in the pilot. And Said tells this woman he just met, he loves her. And going up to do this sort of slutty pumpkin ritual is unreasonable in a way. But when he sort of recognizes it in the end as a ritual, as something I have to do to stay hopeful, there's such a gift to the. He's giving Robin a gift there, and he's giving her some wisdom and Ted the whole time. And the way you play this in this episode is so great. The whole through line of that episode is confidence from Ted. There's never a moment where he's not that way. And Barney trying to, like. Like, get him to go to the Victoria's Secret thing and trying to take him off his track every single time. You had this energy of, like, no, I'm st. There was never a moment of doubt. It was so. Was badass in a way.

[Alec Lev]

There's a relaxed feeling of like, he's wearing this, like, very dated costume. I mean, it was four years ago. Like, she says, no one remembers what a hanging chad was. You know, I really am into this idea that it's a religious ritual for him.

[Craig Thomas]

That's what this episode is.

[Alec Lev]

You know how there's.

[Craig Thomas]

As we're talking about it now, that's what this episode.

[Alec Lev]

There's something like. In religions, like, they'll do something. And you almost don't know how it got started. And you're like, well, no, because on the day. That's what they did that. And he's like. He was wearing a hanging chad costume when he saw this woman. And therefore, every day, we shall wear this costume. Every year.

[Craig Thomas]

Once a year. Yeah. It's like sacrificing a goat adjacent. But it's like, the nice version.

[Alec Lev]

The other thing that really made me laugh while we were shooting it and continues to make me laugh. The bit about Lily giving out the Kit Kat with the phone number on it and then him running into the hall and destroyed a kid. Destroying a kid's candy basket.

[Craig Thomas]

The way you screamed at that kid was so good. It was so fucking crazy. It was like from a different movie. It was like.

[Alec Lev]

I remember the crew really liked that one.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it was really, really, really funny. How insane it's the only moment like that in the whole episode.

[Alec Lev]

And also how Lily giving the number away. It's like. It's like we're not trying to be villains. Like, it's just an honest mistake.

[Craig Thomas]

It's just an honest mistake. And I think part of Ted's obsession is how fucking great of a story it would make right if he does. If four years later or however many years later that is his wife. And what a story to tell. It all started with this Kit Kat bar with a phone number, and he wants to will that into being so hard. But of course, he knows it's probably. That's probably not going to happen, but he just does it anyway because it matters. To believe it matters.

[Alec Lev]

We're not done with the slutty pumpkin story, so keep watching. Keep watching the show with us. We'll hopefully meet her one day.

[Craig Thomas]

You never know.

[Alec Lev]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you in New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now commercials. Hey, Josh.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, Craig. Hey.

[Craig Thomas]

I have this observation. I don't know if it's controversial or not, but I'm gonna share. I'm gonna go out on a limb and share it.

[Alec Lev]

All right, Hit me. Me.

[Craig Thomas]

I've had. I've built up my courage to put this out there. Please don't shoot it down right away. Just think about it. At least Spring smells good.

[Alec Lev]

I. I agree with you.

[Craig Thomas]

That's what I'm putting out there. The springtime smells good.

[Alec Lev]

Oh, yeah. Fantastic. I can get behind that. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

[Craig Thomas]

Okay, but what if. What if you have a kitty litter that smells bad and it interferes with you enjoying the spring smelling good? What do we do then?

[Alec Lev]

Well, you got. You got yourself a real dilemma, because you want to be. You want to have the windows open. You want that fresh air. You want to be smelling those spring smells.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But then that kitty litter odor is getting in the way. Am I following you? Right?

[Craig Thomas]

You're following me, and you walked right into my trap. There's a fix for that, Josh.

[Alec Lev]

Ha ha.

[Craig Thomas]

I've got you right where I want you now. Pretty litter. I'm going to say it again. Pretty litter obliterates odors so you can enjoy all the wonderful scents of spring. Boom. You see where I was going with this?

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm like a puppet master. I'm just making you walk right now.

[Alec Lev]

I have to say a phrase that I've never said before. I've never. These are words I have never said in this order before. Are you Ready?

[Craig Thomas]

You may have said them separately.

[Alec Lev]

Pretty Litter's non clumping formula traps odor and moisture. I'm going to say that again. Pretty Litter's non clumping formula traps odor and moisture. It's ultra absorbent. It's lightweight weight, low dust and 16 pound bag works for up to a month.

[Craig Thomas]

And Pretty Litter gives you peace of mind.

[Alec Lev]

Does it?

[Craig Thomas]

It changes color. This is actually pretty cool. Oh, it changes color to indicate early signs of potential illnesses in my cat. Like urinary tract inf. Here's. Here's the. The potential illnesses. It will tell you urinary tract infections, kidney issues and more. That actually kind of blows my mind. That legitimately blows my mind.

[Alec Lev]

Changes color. It's like a mood ring for your. The health of your cat. Cat in your kitty litter.

[Craig Thomas]

But it's urine based. It's a urine based.

[Alec Lev]

It's unbelievable.

[Craig Thomas]

It's science. It is science.

[Alec Lev]

Since Pretty Litter, which I'm noticing there's like a slight alliteration in the name.

[Craig Thomas]

Pretty. That's fantastic.

[Alec Lev]

Pretty Litter. Since Pretty Litter ships free right to your door, you'll never run out and you won't have huge kitty litter bags taking up space. That's good.

[Craig Thomas]

Pretty Litter helps keep your house smelling fresh and clean. Try and you'll love it. Go to pretty litter.com this is our show H W M Y M How We Made youe mother. To save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. A free cat toy, Josh.

[Alec Lev]

All right.

[Craig Thomas]

The cat toy is also non clumping. That's PrettyLittleitter.com h w mym to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com hwmym terms and conditions apply C site for details. Non clumping.

[Alec Lev]

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Everyone has a reason to change. Growing old, heartbreak, a fresh start. Whatever it may be, Peloton is here to get you through life's biggest moments with instructors that speak your language and workouts that move to your own rhythm. Peloton's tread and All Access membership help you set your targets, track your progress and get stronger, making your fitness goals a reality. Find your push, find your power.

[Josh Radner]

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[Alec Lev]

Visit1peloton.com.

[Craig Thomas]

End of commercials. Back to show.

[Josh Radner]

Let me ask you, so now in terms of production, you're shooting the sixth episode. Do you remember now the feeling of, you know, we're six and we're making this. This is happening.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

We haven't been canceled yet, yeah. Do both of you remember kind of where you are in your emotional career when this is happening?

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, I remember just to go back to Nada Surf for a second. I remember the feeling that. So there was a really cool indie rock radio station in LA. It's 10.3.1. I'm forgetting the name of it. Someone send in what the name of that was because it went off the air while I still live in la. But I got a bunch of great How I Met yout Mother songs from that radio station, including Inside of Love by Nata Surf, which I heard for the first time on that station. This is how long ago it was. We drove around in cars listening terrestrial radio stations. And I remember finding that song and coming to our music supervisor, Andy Gowen, who also had amazing suggestions himself. This one was just because I fell in love with the song on the radio and saying to him, can we get this song and put it under the whole ending of this episode? And he was like, yes, we can. And I remember that we got it. The song aired. And I remember this is all a long way. I mentioned your question, Alex, which is to say I remember the giddiness I felt watching that one air and going, that's because I heard this cool song on the radio and I said, let's put it on a TV episode and now it's airing. And I was just like one of. I just remember that giddy kind of Christmas morning feeling about that one. So we were still in those new days where those superpowers or those moments were still like, all of a sudden you could fly. All of a sudden, you know, there was just this.

[Alec Lev]

And if you couldn't do it, there were 12 people that could get it done for you.

[Craig Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Alec Lev]

I remember feeling. I think I was still quite nervous. I think I was still. It, it really took me a while to relax into the fact that this was a job that was going to be a long time, long term job, you know. And remember, we were not out of the gate like a ratings juggernaut. Like, we were, we were, we were in the demo. We were very good for cbs, for a young audience, but our total numbers were. It took a while.

[Craig Thomas]

It did.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

We, we, we stayed around on the success of like 18 to 34, 1849. Like, we were the youngest skewing show often on CBS on a given week or month or year. And that is what, that's what happens. We would. Yeah, we did not. We were no huge hit. That's true. It was not right out of the gate. And I was worried. I was definitely always. I remember always being worried. Are these numbers good enough?

[Alec Lev]

You know what? The arc we had, which is. I think what happened was. And I think we might have talked about this, but because the ratings weren't insane and because they weren't too bad, they basically left you guys alone to create your weird little show where you could use Belle and Sebastian and not a surf and kind of create your own universe. And I think if we had been too successful, I think they would have been around too much.

[Craig Thomas]

I think that's right.

[Alec Lev]

And I think if we weren't successful, we wouldn't be talking right now. So I think there was a build that allowed us to. To get our voice and grow our audience. You know, I have a. I have some friends who, you know, I, I, you know, I have a very. A friend who's very successful in another area of showbiz. But he was like, coming up is the best. He's like, being on top is not fun. He. He. He uses. I actually put this in a song lyric. But he said, when you get to the top of Everest, the air is so thin that your body actually starts to die. That's why they have to get you up and down so quickly from the top of the mountain. And he's like, that's what the top of showbiz is like. The air is so thin, your body starts dying. So you gotta go up and you gotta collect your award and you gotta come back down to real life.

[Craig Thomas]

I think that's right. I think in the end, it was a real gift. I mean, in the moment, it was terrifying. It was, are these numbers good enough? We're gonna be canceled. And never, but never did we get so big that we took anything for granted. Right? We never got lazy. Carter and I were. We never wanted to go do other pilots and other shows. We were sort of contractually obligated to go do a few others. And we did at times try to do other things a little bit. But we knew this was special. We knew this was one in a million and this was our baby and we didn't ever want to leave it. But I remember there's so much fear in that. What if this doesn't work out? What if we don't find the audience? But looking back on it, I can see it, the way you're saying it, Josh. It's like the lack of that huge spotlight on us kept us kind of this indie rock band a la now to surf and Belle and Sebastian. And we got to Sort of be this strange flavor and fly a little bit under the radar. And in the end, that was just right for us.

[Alec Lev]

And then in ninth season, when we went to Comic Con in San Diego and we were like the arena act, like, we had gotten to the point where we were the most kind of talked about, tweeted about show at Comic Con that year. I remember. Yes, yes.

[Craig Thomas]

Somewhere in the late middle, we became very popular, but we didn't get that.

[Alec Lev]

But these were like the early lean years where we were kind of like loading our own gear into the, you know.

[Craig Thomas]

Totally, totally. It was only like Netflix and streaming that really made the show bigger. And because of the way we made the show without a lab suiting audience, I mean, I don't think any of us ever felt any difference when we became a hit. And I almost didn't know that we were. I knew, like, on paper and people would tell me and I'd hear more things, but basically we're just making the show that we'd always been making. We never changed anything really how we approached it.

[Alec Lev]

I think that there was this assumption that we at some point, like, started walking around like TV stars. And I don't feel like we ever did. Never.

[Craig Thomas]

I never felt that way. I never felt safe. I never felt like we were, like, safe. I always felt like even when we were patently, provably safe, I never felt it. And maybe I just didn't let myself feel that way because, like, I. I would start not working as hard on it or not caring as much or something. I think I was afraid of feeling safe. God, talk about. Now we're getting deep. But I. But I, you know, I think we always kept this healthy sense of, like, we got to prove it. We got to sing for our supper. We got to keep earning this and keep making this interesting. And I think that was good in the end, even though psychologically maybe not healthy.

[Alec Lev]

I have a question for you, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, please.

[Alec Lev]

I still thought it played, but I was just wondering how you feel about Gay Pirate.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And there's been a couple moments like that so far in these first few where there's a joke that's kind of like. Like, would we do that now? Should we have been smarter and wiser and maybe not been cavalier with throwing things around? Like, that could be perceived as insensitive. Or maybe they were insensitive. I mean, in the end, I found myself wondering about it. I don't know that I would do it again exactly in that way.

[Alec Lev]

There's a more generous reading of it. Which is, it wasn't my intention to be a gay pirate. I just wanted to be a pirate. But something about the way I did this and the eyeliner is coming across. It's coming across as a gay pirate. Not there's anything wrong with that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. There's not supposed to be anything wrong with that. But of course, we're making some point of it, like, oh, what if people think of him in that way?

[Alec Lev]

But Marshall doesn't want to be thought of as a gay pirate. Right. With his wife, who's the little bird. Right.

[Craig Thomas]

But in the end, he seems to embrace it and go, like, all right, but we won. And like, whatever. But the idea, throw it away.

[Alec Lev]

It's a little bit throw away, but.

[Craig Thomas]

It struck me as a little weird, if I'm being honest. It struck me as like, why would that be bad? Why should that be a problem? You know what I mean? Like, it's. Because it's not. Yeah. I don't know, maybe we were being a little comedy writer ish there rather than human beings on that one.

[Josh Radner]

I think the way Jason played it was he wasn't offended that you called him gay. He was offended that you didn't understand his costume.

[Craig Thomas]

Right. It wasn't his intention of his costume. And he also says earlier that he feels like he's kind of weirdly hot with the eyeliner. So he's kind of also embracing that.

[Alec Lev]

There's no. He was just doing Johnny Depp. Right. Like, it was just a part.

[Craig Thomas]

She's basically doing Johnny Depp.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did think the little gag, the visual gag of her on the show.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God, is fantastic. That little, like, trompe l'oeil, like, joke. And I know exactly who pitched that joke. And I remember being so jealous of it. And only they would have pitched this joke. Chris Miller and Phil Lord. Yes, Lord Miller, the Oscar winning filmmakers of Spider man movies. Spider Verse movies, Lego Movies. So a joke like that, that is. It's an animated joke, right?

[Alec Lev]

It's basically animated joke.

[Craig Thomas]

It's a visual animated joke. And I remember them pitching that. I feel like maybe that one was Phil. I hope I'm not mistributing it, but I just remember thinking like, that's an animation brain. They hadn't even directed a movie yet. Chris and Phil were on the show in season one as writers, and they got hired to write and direct Cloudy with a chance of meatballs during that time and left a couple episodes before the end of season one. And I remember just thinking, like, only they would Think of that exact joke. That's so their brain, so their eye. And I still remember. I don't sit here claiming to remember who pitched every joke and how I met your mother in every episode. It's really hard. I forget ones that I pitched, but I remember that being them. I remember thinking, only those guys. And sure enough, less than a few months later, they were helming an animated feature, which. The funny part of that, too, is they left maybe episode 19 or 20 out of 22 that season one. And when Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs premiered, their premiere party happened at the same time as our 100th episode party. And they said, we left Amateur Hunter and you've done 100 episodes and we finished this one movie. That's how long an animated movie takes. Takes to produce. But it all worked out very well for that.

[Alec Lev]

I have a memory. I think I went to the premiere of Cloudy, but I remember that they were navigating studio kind of hallways and notes for a long time. And didn't Rob come in and kind of work with them a little bit? Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

One of our other writer producers, Rob.

[Alec Lev]

And I remember feeling like, oh, this might not be good. This could be one of those kind of studio. Through no fault of theirs. It could be. And I went to the premiere and I was delighted by it. Like, I thought it was so funny and smart and had all their kind of hallmarks. Their fingerprints were all over it in the best way.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Alec Lev]

So sharp, so funny.

[Craig Thomas]

The fact that we have their fingerprints on a bunch of season one is a blessing to this show. They wrote the great Thanksgiving episode of season one, Belly Full of Turkey, that also has a bunch of great, crazy visuals in it that only they could think of. And I think that's. I'm so honored to have had those guys who are good friends of all of ours and are just.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, I mean, they're really. They're baked into the DNA. They are.

[Craig Thomas]

They helped define things in the show. They really turned a Barney into, like a comic book, cartoon kind of animated character in Episode, in Sweet Taste of Liberty that they wrote. And, yeah, those guys are the best. And that parrot joke. Parrot on the shoulder, trump Lloyd joke. Phil Lord. I'm almost positive, if not Phil could bench press.

[Alec Lev]

So Alec just told us that since we've started this or since we announced it, we've been soliciting these stories about how I met your mother, what it means to you, how you discovered the show, how it's affected your life. And we have gotten audio testimonials We've gotten written testimonials. Tell us, Alec, you just told us a number of how many people have written in or sent something in. How many stories have we gotten so far?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radner]

So through the website howimageourbrother.com contact you could type in a story, which is the best place to give us your longer form stories. We love the comments on Instagram and on YouTube and on Apple podcasts, everywhere on Spotify. But from the website, we have just received our 1,176th story.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow.

[Alec Lev]

Wow. And that's not including like Instagram or comments like. That's just from the website Contact.

[Josh Radner]

Oh, absolutely. That's. We hunt thousands and thousands, thousands, thousands from everywhere else. That's just through that contact page.

[Craig Thomas]

It's amazing.

[Alec Lev]

Can I also say, like, if you're loving this podcast and certain friends and family members who love How I Met yout Mother are not listening, can we ask our listeners to give them a little nudge and send them the link and say, I'm really enjoying this. We, we would love to get our, our army of how we made your mother supporters and lovers out there turning people on to the, to what we're doing here because we're having such a good time and we love whoever's listening to this right now. But we would also love more people to tune in if they love the show. We also have a lovely letter that we're going to read. Right, Alec?

[Josh Radner]

Yes, indeed. Go for it.

[Alec Lev]

And I will, I will. I'll take the lead on this one today. I have not read this, so I'm going to be surprised as we go. Dear Josh and Craig. Oh my God. No, I'm kidding. That didn't surprise me. Dear Josh and Craig, My name is Matteo. I'm an almost 30 year old Italian guy who grew up with your show and this podcast is truly an incredible gift for me. Me. Last year I had the chance to chat with Josh after the beautiful play the Ally at the Public Theater in New York. Oh, that's so nice. Glad he saw it. I was almost embarrassed because it didn't feel right to talk about how I met your mother after he had just performed in another production. But for me, it was my only chance to tell him what the show has meant to me and how important it still is in my life. I started watching himyoung when I was a teenager while the fifth season was airing in the US I was discovering the pilot episode and from that moment on, I never let go of it. In fact, it became a part of me. As I grew up, Himyam was always there. My happy place to retreat to when things were going wrong. In 2014, the very year of the final season, I completed my studies and found myself facing bigger enemies, anxiety and depression. During those difficult times, Hymn was there for me. The show became, in a way, an anchor that accompanied me through the darkest periods. So I started writing a book. I set the project aside because I wasn't satisfied with what I had written. Over the following years, I realized that the real change had to come from within. Facing my depression with the help of a psychologist, not with DIY remedies. I don't want to go into the details of my life or therapy, but a few years ago, when I found the draft of the novel, I decided to pick it up again. This letter is simply to thank you for being a part of my life for so many years and for inspiring my book, which in 2023 was selected by a publisher and officially released in bookstore all over Italy. It's called Il Sapore de la Vita, the Flavor of life. Forgive me if I mispronounce that. And while it's written by me, there's so much of you in it.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, man, that's so nice.

[Alec Lev]

Thank you for creating something that went beyond a simple dramedy. How I met your mother has been and continues to be a piece of my life. With affection, Matteo Camarada.

[Craig Thomas]

That's the best.

[Alec Lev]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

Thanks, Mateo Mat.

[Alec Lev]

Thank you for that. That. Thank you.

[Craig Thomas]

That's really beautiful. The letters like that have been so amazing. What an honor that the show meant that to people. Please keep them coming. Mateo, thank you so much. Congrats on the novel.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, congrats.

[Craig Thomas]

Check out Matteo's novel. That's really cool.

[Alec Lev]

The flavor of life.

[Craig Thomas]

Glad the show helped you.

[Alec Lev]

And I also think, you know, like I said Craig earlier, like, you and Carter wrote characters who were vulnerable, and I think, you know, there's this idea that we're supposed to show our toughest self and our best self, but true connection is formed when we reveal our wounds and our vulnerability. That's where we really connect. So I think what he's saying in this letter is that we helped him get in touch with those tender spots where his nerve endings were exposed. And he really needed some help. And he, you know, it's just such a. Like, you don't realize what you're doing for people just by telling a story that is going to help them reflect and metabolize their lives and their struggles. So this is a perfect example of, like, I mean, to inspire someone to. To. To be their accompany. To accompany them through dark moments of their life and also inspire them creatively. I can't imagine a better thing to have a work of art be able to do.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, it's. It's why you do it. It's the. The hope and the dream. Like talking about this episode where Ted has this. This faith, right? And this dream, he's up there on the top of that roof waiting for the slutty pumpkin and has like, you know, this almost unreasonable level of faith that it will all mean something one day. And that's the same faith you have when you write something, you make art, you put it out into the world. And the idea that the show has gone out there and connected with people like Mateo in that way, it's so humbling. And like, you dream of that when you start a project, and when it happens, it's just. It's a dream come true. So thank you. Thank you, Mateo. Thank you, everybody, for showing, sharing these stories. It means the world to us.

[Alec Lev]

Thanks, Matteo. That was really beautiful. Thank you. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Josh Radner]

How We Made youe Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev, and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer, producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse letters on Substack. Read Craig Thomas's published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My Dead Father Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make Make a Difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing, provided by Tink Media. People will, in fact, dance.

[Alec Lev]

The real question. It just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?