How We Were Steak Sauce | S1E17 "Life Among the Gorillas"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother: Episode 17 Summary – "Life Among the Gorillas"

In Season 1, Episode 17 of How We Made Your Mother, titled "Life Among the Gorillas," hosts Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas delve deep into the intricacies of the episode, unpacking its themes and the lasting impact it has had on both the creators and the audience. Released on July 28, 2025, this episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the pivotal moments and character developments that make "Life Among the Gorillas" a standout installment in the beloved sitcom.

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1. Introduction and Listener Appreciation

The episode kicks off with heartfelt appreciation for listener feedback, setting a warm and engaging tone. Alec Lev shares a touching letter from Diego in Bogotá, Colombia, highlighting how HIMYM served as a source of solace and inspiration during challenging times (01:52). This segment underscores the show's global resonance and its role as "medicine for the soul."

Diego: "How I Met Your Mother has made so many things in my life. I admire you, love you and respect you so much and I love consuming art in an immense way that I promise you I will be a passionate and dedicated actor and artist every single day of my life."

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2. Episode Overview: "Life Among the Gorillas"

Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas provide a succinct overview of the episode, emphasizing its placement in the narrative arc of Season 1. They highlight how the episode balances the A-story and B-story, seamlessly transitioning between Marshall's personal dilemmas and Ted's romantic struggles.

Josh Radnor: "As the season started to barrel towards the finish line, we definitely jumped in and wrote a few more just to sort of steer like the... you know, this episode ends with a real cliffhanger that kind of spins you into some real drama that's about to heat up the entire ending of season one."

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3. Marshall's Dilemma: Balancing Principles and Financial Realities

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Marshall Eriksen's internal conflict between his environmental ideals and the financial pressures of law school. The hosts dissect Marshall's decision to join Barney's extravagant and morally dubious company, exploring themes of identity, ambition, and peer pressure.

Alec Lev: "There's a kind of... how alpha am I supposed to be? How ruthless am I supposed to be? Where do my values go vis a vis my ambition and vice versa?"

Josh Radnor: "Marshall decides to go make a go of it there and see if he can make some money. And he decides to try to fit in and starts to show signs that perhaps he's changing into one of those guys."

This analysis touches on the fluidity of personality in one's twenties and the societal expectations placed on men regarding career and provision.

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4. The Impact of Peer Pressure and Identity Formation

The hosts delve into the universal struggle of maintaining one's identity amidst external pressures. They draw parallels between Marshall's experiences and their own personal anecdotes, emphasizing how peer groups during formative years significantly influence one's choices and self-perception.

Alec Lev: "It's so easy to moralize. I remember... culture and, and that peer pressure, like it's a huge driver."

Josh Radnor: "We're all still doing that in some way."

This segment underscores the timelessness of these struggles, illustrating how HIMYM effectively captures these relatable challenges.

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5. Socio-Economic Factors and Corporate Critique

A notable discussion point is the episode's subtle yet sharp critique of corporate culture. The fictional company "Ultracell" serves as a stand-in for real-world Goliath-like corporations, highlighting issues such as environmental neglect and ethical compromises.

Josh Radnor: "He thought he was going to be in a perfect world. And now he's working for this company that makes the fuzzy stuff on tennis balls and a whole bunch of really evil shit too."

The hosts commend the show's ability to weave socio-economic commentary into its comedic narrative, making relevant observations that resonate even decades later.

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6. Character Relationships and Long-Distance Challenges

Ted's long-distance relationship with Victoria is another focal point of the episode. The hosts analyze how this subplot not only adds emotional depth but also sets the stage for future character developments and conflicts.

Josh Radnor: "It is a great study of how shitty long distance relationships are."

This discussion highlights the show's nuanced portrayal of romantic struggles, adding layers to Ted's character and his journey towards finding "the one."

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7. Personal Reflections from Hosts

Both Josh and Craig share personal stories that mirror the episode's themes. Josh reminisces about his own struggles with identity and societal expectations, while Craig reflects on the importance of supportive relationships in pursuing one's dreams.

Alec Lev: "My friend John Morrow is like, just so... ready to give me the best pep talk."

Josh Radnor: "My mother planted that for me early."

These reflections deepen the conversation, providing authenticity and personal connection to the episode's analysis.

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8. Listener Letter: A Tribute to Steve Olson

A heartfelt letter from Steve Olson, the Emmy-winning set designer for HIMYM, is featured prominently. His appreciation for the podcast and nostalgic memories of working on the show add a layer of behind-the-scenes insight.

Steve Olson: "It was really an honor to have had the responsibility to create the visual world for this legendary show."

The hosts respond with gratitude and fond memories, celebrating the collaborative spirit that fueled the show's success.

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9. Conclusion and Call to Action

The episode concludes with the hosts encouraging listeners to engage with the podcast through letters, voice messages, and social media. They also promote upcoming content and fundraising initiatives, reinforcing the community-centric ethos of How We Made Your Mother.

Alec Lev: "We are at the third act of our episode where we like to read some listener mail..."

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Notable Quotes

• Diego (Listener): "I admire you, love you and respect you so much and I love consuming art in an immense way that I promise you I will be a passionate and dedicated actor and artist every single day of my life." (01:52)

• Josh Radnor: "Marshall decides to go make a go of it there and see if he can make some money." (06:19)

• Alec Lev: "There's a kind of... how alpha am I supposed to be? How ruthless am I supposed to be?" (07:12)

• Steve Olson (Listener): "Thank you for those nine creative years, those nine years of Creative Playground. Thank you for this walk down Memoryland." (52:27)

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Final Thoughts

"Life Among the Gorillas" serves as a microcosm of How I Met Your Mother's enduring appeal, blending humor with profound existential themes. Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas adeptly navigate the episode's multifaceted narrative, offering listeners a rich and insightful exploration of its enduring legacy.

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Timestamp Reference:

• [01:52] – Diego's Listener Letter
• [06:19] – Marshall’s Dilemma Overview
• [07:12] – Alec on Peer Pressure
• [52:27] – Steve Olson’s Letter

Transcript

[Josh Radnor]

Close your eyes, exhale, Feel your body.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Alec Lev]

And breathe.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

With the Venmo debit card, you can Venmo everything. Your favorite band's merch. You can Venmo this or their next show.

[Josh Radnor]

You can Venmo that.

[Craig Thomas]

Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by MasterCard International, Inc. The card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.

[Diego]

Hi guys, this is Diego from Bogota, Colombia. Thank you for all the art that you give us. How I Met yout Mother has made so many things in my life. I was introduced to the show by who will be my Victoria, the first love of my life. The one that got away. It was in season five and I was 22 but my parents went bankrupt and they could couldn't pay for my studies anymore. So I watched the whole five seasons with my sisters who are four and five years younger than I am. But we all agreed that during that tough time, basically going through hunger and spending our days together watching the show, the age difference narrowed down and we really became more than siblings. We became friends. And now this new episode of rewatching it with you all. Three years ago I decided to live the boring suits and engineering life to become an artist. I've been acting for two years almost. Listening to this podcast feels like another and very important academic resource. Your insight, your tales, your opinions feels like a masterclass in being an artist. I admire you, love you and respect you so much and I love fuming and art in an immense way that I promise you I will be a passionate and dedicated actor and artist every single day of my life. Thank you again. You have no idea how much you have inspired my life and the artist that I am.

[Alec Lev]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York, New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Wow Diego, thank you so much for that. What an incredible letter. To start this episode.

[Josh Radnor]

Maybe one of these days One of these episodes, I won't almost burst into tears. Alex springs these beautiful things on us right as we. This is all in real time.

[Alec Lev]

We hear these for the first time as we. As we do the episode. So that was really incredible. Thank you so much. We're so grateful that the show met you at the right moment. And, you know, sometimes I. I really think the best compliment you can. You can give another artist or storyteller is, you made me want to make art. You make me want to do the thing, you know? So that was really incredible. Welcome to How We Made youe Mother. I'm Josh Radner. I'm here with my friend Craig Thomas. Hello, Craig.

[Josh Radnor]

Hey, Josh.

[Alec Lev]

Hey. We are Talking about the TV show we made together from 2005 to 2014called How I Met yout Mother. I played Ted Mosby on that show. Craig co created the show with Carter Bay. And today, first season, much like when we filmed it, first season is chugging along. We are on episode 17, called Life among the Gorillas.

[Josh Radnor]

17 out of 22. We are barreling to the finish line. We are. Well, more than halfway. And, yeah, it's the beginning of the end of season one arc is heating up here, which is fun to get into.

[Alec Lev]

I can't believe we're on episode 17 already. I mean, this podcast itself. Time is so strange, because this is something I heard about parents, that the days are slow and the years fly by. Is that what you found to be.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, that is very accurate. Very accurate. My son is 18, just turned 18, and he was born between year two and three of him. And it's. Yes, it is all of a piece.

[Alec Lev]

Okay, so episode 17, Life among the Gorillas. This was written. This was written by, I believe, Craig Thomas and Carter Bayes. Is that correct?

[Josh Radnor]

It was. It was. We wrote a bunch of these in season one, and this is one of them. As the season started to barrel towards the finish line, we definitely jumped in and wrote a few more just to sort of steer like the. You know, this episode ends with a real cliffhanger that kind of spins you into some real drama that's about to heat up the entire ending of season one. But we will get there. I won't start at the end, although we could.

[Alec Lev]

We'll talk about this, But I thought it was so elegant how the B story in the very last moment is the A story of the next episode, but it's teed up so smartly, so we'll get to all that. But, Alec, when did this episode air? Episode 17.

[Listener]

This aired on March 20, 2006 a.

[Alec Lev]

Simpler time so, Craig, talk us through the pitch. What happens in this episode?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I liked that this episode focused the A story on a Marshall dilemma like you said. And then the sort of at the end of the episode, the B story really hijacks, steals the spotlight to spin you into the next one, which is. Nothing good happens after 2:00am this is Marshall wrestling with his principles versus financial realities. Right. He's in law school, he's deeply in debt. We've seen him and Lily earlier in the season, both rack up thousands of dollars, dollars of money, you know, debt on a suit and a wedding dress. The wedding dress, sadly, by destroying it. And he feels the pressure to go make some money by working sort of part time in Barney's very gigantic and dubious company full of packed with alpha males all suited up like Barney. And Marshall decides to go make a go of it there and see if he can make some money. And he decides to try to fit in and starts to show signs that perhaps he's changing into one of those guys. And Lily starts to notice and it's a problem. Meanwhile, Ted is in that war of long distance of he's being sent much nicer care packages by Victoria, who's in Germany. And he feels like he has to somehow make that up. He's realizing that long distance really sucks. Which of course future Ted has now told us at least twice by this point at the beginning of this episode being the second time.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, I mean, it strikes me as you describe the Marshall story, I feel like your 20s, there's still like your personality is somewhat, still fluid. Like you're, you're, you're still like trying on costumes a little bit. Like, oh, maybe I'll, you know. Yeah, yeah. And you're also still kind of porous and unformed enough. Not all people in their 20s, but there, there isn't a thing like your friends at a certain point. It's not your family of origin or your parents that are most affecting your personality. It's your peer groups. Right. And when you fall into a certain kind of peer group, like I remember when I, when I got to college, I wasn't a, I was a voracious reader as a kid in high school. I wasn't as much, but I got into college and I fell in with these really smart, funny group of people who were just like big readers. And I suddenly like, I conformed by becoming a big reader. So I'd be like. So I could have something to.

[Josh Radnor]

This is the best possible peer Pressure. No, it is. It is.

[Alec Lev]

It's the best possible peer pressure. Like become a good. So. So Marshall is like. He's in a culture that he does not take to initially, and he actually is somewhat repelled by it, but he also, for his own social survival, starts to adapt. I mean, it's actually really smart to frame it in kind of animalistic evolutionary.

[Josh Radnor]

Terms, the anthropology of it all. And yeah, he. And it hits right in that sweet spot of everything. He thought he was going to be in a perfect world. And now he's working for this company that makes the fuzzy stuff on tennis balls and a whole bunch of really evil shit too. I really enjoy the speed of that montage of boom, boom, boom. You see all of these horrible things that. That are going. Named and the company wants the public to fit. To focus on the tennis balls. That's that, you know, it feels very relevant at the moment. It was from 2006, but it feels like it could be today, right where we're very much in that world of talking about climate change and should. How. You know, should. How much or little of our efforts should be thrown at that. And Marshall, here He is in 2000, right in there. And I enjoyed that.

[Alec Lev]

There's a very dark climate change joke in there. We tried.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, well, they tried.

[Alec Lev]

They tried.

[Josh Radnor]

I wish that joke felt like it was not relevant still, but here we are. Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. I also like how the corporation is. Is this Goliath national bank or not? This is different. That's different.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's called ultracell here. And I think later we. I forget how we get to Goliath national bank. If that's a subsidiary of Ultrasound. I was really working on this in my. I didn't let myself look it up because I was really trying to challenge myself to remember how we navigated that. And I'm just going to be honest, I forget when and where and how we imply GNB is part of that or Barney, that moves jobs.

[Alec Lev]

Two things I want to highlight about this plot with Marshall is there's a kind of how alpha am I supposed to be? How ruthless am I supposed to be? Where do my values go vis a vis my ambition and vice versa? You know, And I think that, you know, that's still something I actually struggle with. Like how. How. Get out of my way, world. I'm gonna do what I need to do versus no. I'm a part of a team. I'm a part of community. I'm. I, I'm. My, My values dictate that I, you know, put my ego aside for the larger good. Like there's all sorts of really big questions that are couched in this 22 minutes of comedy. And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you in New York City. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Craig Thomas]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Listener]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Alec Lev]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Alec Lev]

And now back to the show.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I really like the flashback to Marshall's childhood. The kind of origin story of when he decided to be a superhero. He wanted to be an environmental superhero. He wanted to say, I'm going to save those gorillas, I'm going to save their habitat. And it's kind of this philosophical debate of is it possible the older you get into adulthood? And I agree with you completely that your late 20s, you're maybe an adult. It depends on the person. But I feel like I became an adult in my 30s.

[Alec Lev]

I mean, isn't it like the prefrontal Cortex settles at 25, like you're still something like that?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's like here he is, Marshall, he's 27 or something and he's headed into. Now all his life's going to get expensive all of a sudden, right? They're in debt from the suit and the wedding dress. They have a wedding coming up and the future and kids and all of a sudden when faced with all of that, he's, he's. Now it's the first time he's really being tested about. Do you mean this thing that you said you wanted to do when you were in grade school when you saw this woman gave this very sobering assessment that the gorillas would all be dead. It was not the most inspiring pep talk he got, but it really landed for him. And he really. He's such an empath and a sweetheart and a compassionate guy. That is his mission. And now this is the first real test. This is the first real. We're going to kick the tires. We're going to come at this idea a little bit. The real life is going to come for you. Can you hold onto this thing, this IM of who you thought you'd be as a grownup?

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I really like that debate. I really like that it's an episode that's primarily about that. Right. It's not primarily about, like, dating and love and relationship stuff. It's who. Who are you? What can you hold on to that best version of yourself you thought you were going to be?

[Alec Lev]

It's also, though, it does brush up against dating and relationship and marriage because he says, well, how am I going to provide for this family? How am I going to, you know, my wife is a kindergarten teacher. Like, what kind of salaries, you know, together, what will. What kind of life will that buy us in New York City, no less? So it does brush up against, you know, the economic question. This is actually the other thing I wanted to bring up. I read a really great article in the Atlantic by Sophie Gilbert this week about essentially, like, economics on tv. And she asked, like, when did TV become so filthy rich? Like, when did tv. Right now, TV is really in a moment where everyone. Money's not an issue right now. Everyone has an enormous amount of money to burn, vacations to go to where people get murdered and, you know, beach houses. And it's just like, money is no object on TV right now. And she bemoans this, and I think rightly, that if you. If you want TV to be a reflect. I mean, it's a tricky thing because you don't want TV to be a downer. You. You. TV is still an escape, right? Like, you. You still want to go somewhere where you can get away from stuff, but you also don't want to feel like you're in, like, a gilded PA that is that you don't relate to. And I've always admired. Something I admired about this show is economics is at play.

[Josh Radnor]

And Barney is planting these seeds of doubt about, like, what a man is. Right. It's a man's job to provide everything for the woman. This very kind of old school, Right, Lily? Yeah, sure. Lily's a kindergarten teacher, but deep down, she wants the package according to Barney, which led to some great wordplay dick jokes that I really enjoy later. But there really is legitimate content into what he's saying, which is, yeah, he's saying, she may say one thing, but deep down. And Barney's playing to that kind of, like, primal, sort of caveman, like, very deep, primordial thing that men feel. I think of, I've gotta be this provider. And he really fucks with Marshall's head, for lack of a better term. And plants a seed of doubt that, yes, Lily will. Maybe she's not now, but she will be the woman who will want all of those things. Even as Lily is saying to Marshall, I don't need those things. I want you to be yourself. And you're sliding into becoming someone else. And I don't like it. It's so powerful, I think, that pull of what you think you're supposed to be or do as a man. And I think we are really witnessing, not to get too political, sociological at the moment, but I think we're really witnessing in our culture right now, 2025, as opposed to 2006. Although it's kind of the same debate. What is a man? Right? What is a man's role? How does a man define himself? And I think we are seeing some very wrong answers to that question, if I may be so bold. And we see Marshall get seduced by some of those. Maybe the sketchier version of what a man thinks he's supposed to be.

[Alec Lev]

It almost feels like you guys were a little ahead of what's going on now. Like Blauman and Bilson. Is that their names? Blauman and Bilson? Brian and Taran. Yeah. What perfect names, by the way. Blauman and Bilson.

[Josh Radnor]

Those names came from, like, pretend names we used to make up with Carl McCo, Claren and Jamie Adameck. We would just make up these sort of, like, middle manager kind of guys. And those were like, the names of the guys or, like, characters we would sometimes just pretend to do. And so he stole them as a tribute to those bits to put in these sort of, like, these striving middle management kind of guys. And by the way, the first significant other, the Himyeon man cast member has made an appearance as Taran Killam, Kobe, husband of Kobe Smolders, then fiance, then husband, and now father of her children. And that begins a quick succession in this next book. Batch of episodes of several other significant others. But this was the first one. This opened the floodgates. And then we got a couple of.

[Alec Lev]

We're making up for me not having Been married on the show by having Jordana on every episode of this show. Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

And we finally got. That's right. And now this is your significant other as well.

[Alec Lev]

This is my show.

[Josh Radnor]

So we've righted the boat.

[Alec Lev]

But also, I mean, there's a kind of like the culture in that company among those guys. Not to name any names, but it does feel like we could probably guess what podcasts they're listening to today. You know, like, it feels. It feels like they're. They were like, in the manosphere before there was such a thing. Or they were, like, waiting for their cultural moment to come along.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, those guys have a podcast at this point.

[Alec Lev]

They have a podcast.

[Josh Radnor]

Very mid.

[Alec Lev]

They have a very mid podcast, but.

[Josh Radnor]

It'S the Blauman Bilson Hour and it is really fucking crazy.

[Alec Lev]

But also, like, think of it, just the culture clash of, like, Marshall Erickson from, like, pretty liberal Minnesota Wesleyan graduate entering into this thing. Like, he must have felt. I mean, you see, he feels really underwater and ill equipped, but he also makes this pivot and. But I just think there's something so refreshing about seeing people, like, think in your light. Like, everyone's economic situation is affecting their choices. It's affecting whether they're going to meet their friend for dinner if they have enough money. It's affecting where they can live. It's affecting what cities they're going to, what jobs they're going to take. Like, economics, especially in America, is such a driver of so much. And I feel like it's a dereliction of duty when TV shirks looking directly at that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I agree. I really like seeing them under legitimate financial pressure. And it's kind of changing who Marshall is and the decisions he's making because we've all. We've all been there in some way, right? Like, I mean, I remember, like, looking at life through that lens in season one of How I Met yout Mother. Like, we, you know, we were all on the climb, right, Josh? We were all like, we were ambitious and hungry and we wanted this thing to work and this was our ticket, right? And we're chasing this thing and you're maybe like, deprioritizing other parts of your life and brain and health and whatever else is going on to, like, this kind of workaholic focus, you know, I remember, you know, thinking, ah, I'm married. I've been married for a few years. We're probably gonna have a kid soon. And like, all of these issues were in my br. Brain too. And, you know, and it's. It's a very powerful thing to, I think, for men. I mean, I don't want to. I'm a man. So we'll only talk about it from that perspective. But what Marshall gets seduced by there is very real, right? And you're. You're. You're coming up on 30. You're in your late 20s and your 30s. All of a sudden, you're looking ahead and you're thinking about children and the future. And I really. I bought Marshall's kind of slide into the seduction. Obviously, it's funny and it's silly, and we maybe tried to make it amusing, But I think it's pretty real, right? That even a guy with all of those kind of values who is a cuddly, sweet, empathetic bear of a guy, There is something seductive when someone whispers in your ear and goes like, deep down, your wife wants you to be rich. Your wife wants everything.

[Alec Lev]

Right? But not only that, there's a gravitational pull to a culture. I know a woman who moved down to Florida kind of mid pandemic with her husband and her kids. And she was very kind of New York progressive. Her politics were just like line drive kind of New York City politics. And she moved down to Florida, and she was surrounded by different political beliefs. And she said, like, I still consider myself on the left end of the spectrum, but it changed a lot of my thinking just being saturated in a different culture. So Marshall, like, steps into this culture and. And it rattles him because he also doesn't want to get made fun of at lunch. He doesn't want to eat alone. He doesn't want to feel like he's the lame kid right at the. You know. And it's funny how adolescent fear of being left out never quite leaves us, right? Like, it's always. It's always a driver. And that's also primal. Like, shame of being, you know, cast out of the tribe. Right.

[Josh Radnor]

I remember being in my twenties writing for Lecha with David Letterman, growing up all of my teen years hating how much my father smoked cigarettes. We would go on long car trips, and he'd be smoking with the air conditioner with, like, me and, like, a friend of mine and my mother driving.

[Alec Lev]

On, like, the long trip poisoning you.

[Josh Radnor]

And, like, the whole car was smoking the cigarette. Like, every. The car itself was smoking the cigarette.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I was like, the one thing I know about myself, you know, life may come at me in all kinds of directions, but the one thing I know is I'm never gonna smoke.

[Alec Lev]

Except when you're drunk.

[Josh Radnor]

Except When I'm drunk, yes. Well, very much to the point, but I remember being at Letterman and I don't want to name names. Carter Bayes was a big smoker and a couple of the other writers at Letterman. And by the way, much to his credit, Carter quit smoking years and years and years and years ago. In fact, it led to material. There was a whole hymn episode about that last cigarette ever. And I somewhere in my like early mid-20s, because Carter and a couple of the other dudes were there, the writers at Letterman smoked. I started sort of smoking, like not even enjoying it. I didn't look cool doing it. I'm the one person that's. While smoking looks really uncool and kind of sickly. Like I just return a bad color. It does not look like James Dean at all. And I was thinking, I'm like, why am I doing this? I hate this. I actually hate this. And our office became the smoking office because I had like windows that opened. It was like over the office, Sullivan Theater and you know where Colbert is now. And we were. People would come in there to smoke. So the fucking whole office became like an ashtray. And it was so disgusting. And eventually I had like a moment where I was like, I was never going to do this. And I think I'm doing this to fit in with. I basically did like the high school thing, but in my 20s, I never did the high school thing in high school. I never had that peer pressure. In my 20s I was like, I would smoke and it wasn't a huge amount, but it was somewhat. And I remember just looking at myself in the mirror at some point going like, like this is who you're never going to be. And you're doing it to fit in with these dudes.

[Alec Lev]

Well, it's also. It's so easy to moralize. I remember being having a conversation with my friend Jeremy Hirschfeld in eighth grade. We were at this private school, we were both about to go into this public school. And he said, I might try alcohol. And I said, I remember I was so self righteous, I was like, I don't need to have alcohol to have a good time is what I said. Cut to like two months into freshman year, I'm shotgunning beers in C.H. waterman's attic. You know, just like, like absolutely. I have no memory of saying that. But yeah, I mean culture and, and that peer pressure, like it's a huge driver. I also think there's something really funny about the corporate critique that you guys laced into How I met your mother with Goliath national bank and whatever this company is that got acquired perhaps by Goliath National Bank. And they were very generically. Besides the yellow fuzzy stuff on tennis balls just involved. They had their hands in all evil, all global evil. They had. They had their fingerprints on. On every aspect. It's weapons. It's like everything and. But it's funny how you do. You did that within, like, a real corporate structure. Like, we were not an indie. Like, outside. This is not like a John Waters film. Like, this is like 20th Century Fox, which time was owned by Rupert Murdoch, it must be said. And you guys were doing this. This critique, which I thought was, like, pretty cool and subversive to be. To be doing that from within.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. You would throw a commercial from How I Met yout Mother and see ads for companies like All Tricel, essentially.

[Alec Lev]

Like.

[Josh Radnor]

Right. Like, that was. Those were our sponsors. So there was, like, this was us hating ourselves a little bit maybe, for making. For knowing we were some part of that corporate engine. I remember going to work so many days and seeing that. The giant Simpsons. When you drive into the Fox lot, there's. On one side of one of the soundstages, there's a huge painting of The Simpsons, like 50 foot tall and Star wars and just going like, okay, remember that stuff, because I know the larger parent company here has some real problems happening. And I much prefer to think of ourselves as we are creative types working for this one completely separate faction, like the Simpsons, which also is an unbelievable social satirical critique. Right. And I would have to really meditate some days on that type of. I'm thinking about it that way as opposed to some other way, but we had to sneak in that commentary ourselves.

[Alec Lev]

Don't you think, though, that we are from, like. We're kind of like late Gen X.

[Josh Radnor]

You and I. Yep.

[Alec Lev]

So we're from a generation that was like. Like Reality Bites. Like, she chooses Ethan Hawke over Ben Stiller. Like, it's, It's. It's. It's about not selling out spoilers. Yeah. Sorry about that. What's Nate Bragazi's thing about Sixth Sense? Like, don't say, oh, we're gonna rent it tonight. Why would you ruin it? But. But I think that we. I. I know I still have that kind of, like, don't sell out thing in me. That. That's just generational. But at the same time, I don't think Gen Z, they do not have that. Like, they will accept ads on their TikTok if they are killing it. Like, I just think that the idea of being a sellout is not a thing anymore. That's why a friend of mine, Isaac Butler, a really smart writer, we went and saw Merrily we roll along with Daniel Radcliffe when it was at New York Theater Workshop. And it's an amazing, if incredibly flawed musical. And he said, I think the reason this musical doesn't work, like, at its base level, it took place in the 70s or early 80s, and it all hinges on this notion of selling out. And that's just. It's not a thing anymore. Like, no one gets mad at you for taking money from a big studio or a corporation to finance what your dream project. Like, I just think we're in a different zone. But I think, you guys, we come from a kind of generation where there was a little bit of like, or should we be doing this?

[Josh Radnor]

That's really interesting to think about. I wonder how this episode plays in that context in 2025. I mean, I think it plays just because it's really. It's less about. It's in part about selling out, but it's also like selling out to this incredibly evil company that is like poisoning. Clearly poisoning the environment.

[Alec Lev]

The background noise is the company. But the more pressing thing is these guys and the way they talk and the way they talk about women and the way they just. Their whole ethos of how they interact and how they move through that space. And Marshall's like, I have to learn a new language. Like, he has to code switch, essentially. Like, he's one way with Lily and, you know, Ted and Robin, and then he flips into this different way of being and speaking when he's with those guys.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, and I really like that Lily, as the kindergarten teacher, is like, no, that's just peer pressure. This is not an anthropological study. It's called peer pressure. I see it with my 5 year old.

[Alec Lev]

We have an assembly. Doesn't she say, we have an assembly about it?

[Josh Radnor]

I have an assembly every year about it. It's so true. It never changes. It never changes here. You still feel it, right? We're like 50 years old. There's still moments where you're like, well, how am I bending? What am I doing to fit into this situation? Am I being myself? Am I finally at the age where I'm just myself or crying out loud? Or am I still doing that in some way? And I think the honest answer is, we're all still doing that in some way.

[Alec Lev]

Remember how popular that book was? Everything I need to know, I learned in kindergarten. Do you guys remember that book? Ye. I think Lily would probably.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it all applies.

[Alec Lev]

So a couple things I just wanted to shout out. I thought young Marshall was very well cast. That seemed like a little. A young Jason Siegel.

[Josh Radnor]

Really earnest and sweet and Siegelian. Siegelion.

[Alec Lev]

Siegelion. Yeah. I think that's right. When Ted calls out offstage. I love you, too, Marshmello. That line sounded so clearly looped, didn't it?

[Josh Radnor]

It did. And I had the same thought, Josh. And I was like, I wonder why that. That got looped. Did that. I wonder if that was just like, did we add that joke?

[Alec Lev]

I don't know if it was, but it sounded so looped, I thought it was really funny.

[Listener]

Sorry. Explain to some folks. Explain what? I agree completely, but yes.

[Josh Radnor]

So for Tracy on who's Sean Hayes cousin on Smart List, we'll say that looping is when you have to go back in and add audio in post because maybe the audio got recorded wrong or you want to change the line or something.

[Alec Lev]

Like there's an offstage line you wanted to add in. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Josh, it's so funny you said that, dude. Alec, you were nodding, too. I turned to my wife, I said, that was. Something happened to that line. I don't remember what the backstory is. Maybe the audio was corrupted and we just had to add that lining up. But it did. It sounded really weird.

[Alec Lev]

I feel like it was a joke. That was. I think we filmed it, and I think something must have happened with the audio. And I had to rewind because it's timed right.

[Josh Radnor]

It fits in like, it feels like it's shot that way. Then I was like, why does Josh's voice sound like he's in a spaceship somewhere else other than that room?

[Alec Lev]

Every once in a while, I'll be watching a movie, and I'll be like, that line was looped, like you can. But often they're pretty good about massaging it. I just wondered why that one was. Where did steak sauce A1 come from? Where did that.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't remember. I have this feeling like it was from maybe Matt Kuhn, one of our writers, and maybe in college. Somebody really did say that, and that was the thing. I'll have to ask Matt. If not, I feel like it was from somebody's friend group or somebody they had. Had studied in college, anthropologically studied. Some. Some group of people.

[Alec Lev]

It's a perfect kind of, like, what are they saying? Like, do I have steak sauce on my tie? Like, my tie.

[Josh Radnor]

Poor Marshall. It's so sweet.

[Alec Lev]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you. New York City.

[Josh Radnor]

And now commercials.

[Alec Lev]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Alec Lev]

Now only $99. Not a pro Rewards member join for free today. Lowes we help you save valid through 723 while supplies last Selection varies by location. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. Ceelo's.com terms for details. Subject to change.

[Josh Radnor]

The McDonald's Snack Wrap is back. You brought it back.

[Alec Lev]

Ranch snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap.

[Josh Radnor]

You broke the Internet for a snack snack wrap is back. End of commercial. Back to show.

[Alec Lev]

I loved when he said we're still engaged, even if she's out of town.

[Josh Radnor]

That's really funny because that sets up a future thing later where there is like, I think Barney gets. Way later in the series, Barney gets really angry that Marshall can't even really fantasize about other actual women. And Marshall has to go through this whole long thing, imagining Lily's death, imagining that the funeral, imagining months and years passing. And then at the end, the fantasy part is he meets a woman and says hi. Hi. And that's the fantasy. Just that he's even open to talking to another one. I'm getting it wrong. It's way later in the series, but this felt like it set that up of like he can't even. He just can't even do the hypothetical. Really.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. I mean, it's so smart how. And we'll talk about this in a moment. But setting up, you know. You know, you got Angelina Jolie, it's Scarlett Johansson. What do you do go. You know, like that whole bit which is such. Feels like a negligible throwaway thing, becomes this really like existentially fraught question at the way end.

[Josh Radnor]

We had that right away. I remember that was sort of a big part of what this structure became. We knew we wanted to end that. That whole what do you do go bit thing used to come from us joking around again with our assistant Carl McLaren, doing like sort of a pretend bro y fratty bit that was the whole like, what do you do go. And it was always at night, it was always raining. And it was like we would have this whole elaborate bit that we essentially just transferred into the show and put on these guys that were the kind of guys we were sort of imagining. And it fit in so well. And then we realized it can become dramatic at the end. Yes. This sort of thing that this thing that you think is a complete throwaway and a completely stupid joke that just happens a couple times. Little runner at the end becomes the central question of what is going to be the next episode that is going to lead to some really seismic stuff in Ted's life. And I really like that. That sneaks up on you at the end.

[Alec Lev]

I just also realized that. That the word go has a double meaning at the way end because throughout the whole thing is like, what do you do? Go? Meaning answer. Like, answer. But this one is, what do you do go? You go. You go to her.

[Josh Radnor]

You go.

[Alec Lev]

You go over to her apartment.

[Josh Radnor]

Which he does.

[Alec Lev]

Which he does.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, we'll get to that, too.

[Alec Lev]

I loved when Lily said screw. Those guys were adorable. Like, you know so much about, like, the mythologizing. Like, Lily and Marshall have a mythology about themselves. Like, we're Lillian Marshall. Like, we're the parrot. We're the. Is it an A ultra. Is that the word? Like, we're like the beau ideal of a couple, you know? And screw these guys for not seeing that. Was this the debut of Siegel doing the robot, or had he already done it?

[Josh Radnor]

He had done some robot. There was some robot in his big dance number in. Okay, awesome. And I think a couple other times he was calling that back as, like.

[Alec Lev]

This is one of my moves.

[Josh Radnor]

We had established that. By the way, the other thing I like about it's 2am knock, knock on the front door. But knock, knock on the back door, the 2:00am sort of, like fit in great. It was because I don't remember if that was part of our initial bit, but I think we made it 2am because we knew the next episode was going to be this great study in.

[Alec Lev]

The cutoff of 2am I love Barney's please. It's so funny again.

[Josh Radnor]

Which set up a series long runner about not knowing what his job is. And then eventually, I won't blow the joke. But the please of it all, please mean something when we finally find out there's an acronym for please down the line.

[Alec Lev]

Oh, that's right. That's right. Remember this? Yeah, totally.

[Josh Radnor]

I won't say what it is because we'll just get there, you know, three years from now on the podcast. So remember this? Hold on to this.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. How well do you think the Golden Girls joke aged?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I mean, I guess you could argue it a bunch of ways. It's a bit of a troubling joke. I think it aged well because the Golden Girls have just stayed. Have deserved.

[Alec Lev]

They're perennial. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Stayed so perennial because it's just a great show and Betty White. It's like, that's all. It's. It's all still present in pop culture. I was happy with it. That aged better than some other pop culture. It aged better than the Quantum Leap joke two episodes earlier. For example.

[Alec Lev]

I love, like, smoking only when I'm drunk. Good boy. Like, that's so funny. Tremors of psychitude rock my body like a seizure. That's what I wrote down. That's a. This is another thing of, like, first time network debut of that sentence.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah. Like another show's not doing that one.

[Alec Lev]

Quantum Leap. They didn't say that. Golden Girls never said that Barney could turn a phrase.

[Josh Radnor]

Tremors of psychitude and what the declawed.

[Alec Lev]

Cat and Marshall says. Wow, that was really specific.

[Josh Radnor]

It's really specific. I love how Siegel played that. Yeah. And I think they really did hurt each other's hands when they did some of the. They do a bunch of those really hard high fives. I seem to remember them like, really?

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. We didn't have a. We didn't have a combat choreographer for those high fives. Like, they just, like, hit me.

[Josh Radnor]

High five specific high five coordinator. You were very funny. I thought you played a very funny Falling asleep on the phone.

[Alec Lev]

Oh, I like that.

[Josh Radnor]

With Victoria. I like that you had a very good, like, little physical. There was something you did, like.

[Alec Lev]

No, no, I know what it was. I did, like, itching, distracting.

[Josh Radnor]

There was something that turned in you melting into sleep. That was good.

[Alec Lev]

Jordana got distracted by our dog, and I made her. I made us rewind and watch me.

[Josh Radnor]

Sleep because I thought.

[Alec Lev]

I thought it was good enough. I wanted her to see my ass.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, No, I really. I'm not kidding. I really thought about. That was a really funny. You slid. You melted into sleep by, like, your face and your hand. Like, there was a.

[Alec Lev]

And it's trying. It's like trying to stay on. Like, trying to not be asleep. Like, trying to let. And not let the person know you're going.

[Josh Radnor]

It is a great study of how shitty long distance relationships are. It is that idea of, like, you just run out of shit to say and you kind of forget what the person looks like. And I actually really bought that because they'd only been together a couple of months. Like, you can be together with someone for like five years and be apart for a month or two and kind of go, fuck. I can't totally. I'm not 100% conjuring that person's face. At this moment, there's something off. It's tough, man. It's tough. We were not wrong about the long distance thing.

[Alec Lev]

What does this mean? Ted's shirt on phone with Robin O. Ted's.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know. Were you literally falling asleep on the couch next to Joanna? You were doing the Ted the hand and writing nonsense down.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah. Ted shirt on phone with Robin O.

[Josh Radnor]

I like some of these notes. Like, every third one, you're like, what in God's name? 12 hours ago, when I watched this.

[Alec Lev]

I know I did think Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap was the perfect song for Barney to sing. That's like his go to. It's perfect.

[Josh Radnor]

So I forgot. I had forgot. I forgot that was Barney's karaoke song until I was scouring new songs we should play for our How I Met yout Mother fundraiser concert that we do at. At Bowery Ballroom. There will be another one in early 2026. And I was like, what song should Will Forte sing? Neil couldn't come to that. They couldn't perform with us at that. He was traveling, and we knew we had Will Forte coming in. And we're like, what song can Will Forte just scream the living bejesus out of? And I was like. And we were looking around, I was like, it's that one. Because we only play at that fundraiser concert. We only play songs that are either, like, written for how much mother or were on the soundtrack or featured. And so that was thrilling to discover that. And Will Forte came out, sang it with Carter, and killed. Killed with that song. And Neil killed it too.

[Alec Lev]

So let's just talk about the ending. I just thought it was so brilliant. I'd forgotten one that. What do you do? Go. Comes back. But I was really struck by how Ted is clearly the B story. Ted and Robin and this Victoria thing is so clearly the B story. But at the very last moment, it just tease it up as, like, now we're gonna follow this. Like, this is gonna. This is now the age story for the next episode. And it's such a good cliffhanger. I think by episode 17 into 18, you've got some real emotional investment among the audience. And I thought it was one of the better cliffhangers of episode of season one.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, thanks. I love that moment. It gives me a chill every time, that ending. It just. There's just. When it cuts to black there, and there's that little beat even before the credits come in, which we. We have. We kept there to sort of let it land. I love that. I love that. It sort of sneaks up on you as this dramatic ending and it really spins you into the dilemma of the next one. This is what we love doing. We loved writing it as one big continuous thing. We didn't want it to be a box of chocolates. We didn't want it to be standalone episode. Standalone episode. You can watch anyone in any order. And the network was nervous about that. We got kind of a talking to at the end of season one that we were doing too much of that kind of thing. This was before streaming. This was before Netflix. Netflix was a place that sent you DVDs and red pouches at this point, 2005, 6. And people didn't consume the show this way. And we were like, but they do. They'll get it on the DVD and they'll watch a whole bunch in a row. Or like. Or by the way, why not wait? Now you have to wait a week to see what Ted's going to do with that amazing dilemma that's just been presented to him. So let people sweat it out for a week and come back. As opposed to like, I forget what happened last week on that How I'm at yout Mother show. I don't see the downside. I guess it excludes people jumping in in the middle. But does it? Does it really? I don't. I would argue it doesn't.

[Alec Lev]

I mean, it's always essentially an argument about how much do you trust your audience.

[Josh Radnor]

Yes. And we trusted our audience and God damn paid off. We're proven right by the smartest and best fans of any TV show in history.

[Alec Lev]

Well, we are at a segment of the show that we like to call Questions and Observations from Clinical Psychologists who's never seen How I Met yout Mother and also happens to be married to Josh.

[Craig Thomas]

I love in this episode how Lily is so encouraging of Marshall following his dreams of not selling out of not just being practical. And it reminded me of a story about John Gottman, who's a well known couples therapist and researcher who apparently when he was trying to publish his first book, was rejected multiple times until one guy said, you want me to publish your book?

[Josh Radnor]

Book?

[Craig Thomas]

Tell me now, how do I fix my marriage with my wife? And John Gottman apparently said, ask her what her dreams are. And it worked. He published him. And the story always stuck with me because I think it highlights how fundamental it is to find a partner who really encourages you to follow your dreams. And I just love how the solid him couple here is the one that is supportive of each other's trust. So my question to you guys is, who was supportive of your dreams in childhood and also now?

[Josh Radnor]

What a good. That's a great story and a great question. What do you do? Go, Josh, you're first.

[Alec Lev]

Well, I feel like, as an actor and as a person who makes things and tells stories, there were some formative people in my life along the way. I had and continue to have a friend named David Brown who choreographed the first musical I was in. And I think he might have been the first person who told me I could do this professionally. And then I was at Vassar at a training program one summer. New York stage and film and two great actors. Jane Kaczmarek, she played the mom on Malcolm in the Middle and a bunch of other stuff. Such a good actor. And this other. Just incredible actor. Peter Fourchette. I was friends with both of them, and they both pulled me aside and said, you can do this. You're gonna be one of the people here who can do this. And. And there was a mentor I had in school, Ken Washington, who died a couple years ago. And at his memorial, I spoke. It was a bunch of Juilliard in nyu, people who were really affected by him. We had a kind of makeshift memorial at nyu, and I got up and spoke, and I said, there were times when I didn't believe that I could be an actor, but I believed that Ken believed I could be an actor. And I think sometimes when you don't believe in yourself, there's a. So, like, you almost have to have, like, an external hard drive in the form of a person who holds the faith. Like, is the faith keeper for you until you can hold it yourself. And so I had an enormous amount of those people over the years that even now, sometimes when I'm feeling down about this or that, there's. There's people that I call because they're so gifted at pep talks. My friend John Morrow is like, just so. He's just ready to give me the best pep talk. And I always feel altered after talking with him. And, you know, my wife, who also happens to be a clinical psychologist, who's never seen how I met your mother.

[Josh Radnor]

I've heard of her.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I think we're in her segment right now. I think we're literally in her thing.

[Alec Lev]

I mean, in some ways, like, we. We weren't together since drama school. Like. Like, we. We. We got together after I was firmly established as doing what I do. But there was no question, like, she understood in some sort of cellular way what I do and why I need to do it and her, her ability to kind of like, see what I need to do and what I need to do daily, creatively. Like, there's never been a negotiation around that. Like, she, she really, the only negotiation would be, I think you need to do this more. Like, I think you need to lean into this more. So I feel really, I feel really supported in that primary relationship. What about you, Craig?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I like how you just laid out a timeline. I think that's the truth of it. Right. It's like different people at different times, but the earliest ones matter so much. Right. And I would say my mother and father. My father, who is a writer, creative director in advertising and smoker and big smoker, very Mad Men era, like advertising smoker guy. And around here. And now he's alive and probably smoking. If he's listening to this, which I'm not sure he knows how to listen to a podcast, but he would just give me cool writers to read. That was his way of showing his belief in me. Like, read this, read this, read this. You should read. Here's John Cheever, here's Raymond Carver, here's J.D. salinger. And just like, he didn't give me pep talk after pep talk, but I knew he believed in me because he told me what to read. And my mother, more explicitly would say, saw that I was a good writer. She saw my schoolwork, she saw that I could write and knew that I was thinking about doing it. And at a very young age, when I would have a hard day and I'd come and I'd talk about something that was terrible at school or something that was bothering me or my parents divorcing early in high school, she would say, well, it's all grist for your mill, meaning you're going to make something of this someday. Kind of using this charmingly old timey way of saying that my mother was born in 1802 and we ran a mill and no, but it was just like, you're going to write, you'll write about this someday. Which planted this seed that as you go through life and things are hard, you can turn it into art. Bring it really back to our opening recording from Was it Diego? Take those things and make it art. My mother planted that for me early.

[Alec Lev]

I read a novel years ago that I quite liked called Someday this Pain will be useful to you.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's a great title and it's true, right? But those moments where somebody tells you you will be able to make something of that pain, I'll just say a couple Other quick ones, which is Carter and I became writing partners by getting the same internship. And we were working at MTV at the series development department in the mid-1996, mid-90s. This wonderful executive there, this guy named Jeremiah Bosgang, which is an amazing name who we're still in touch with to this day, he believed in Carter and I. He was like, you guys can do this. You can be a writing team. Here's what you should do. Put together your packet, do this, and I will help it get to an agent. Which he did. Got to an agent Roundabout, who then became our agent and was our agent agent all the way through our entire career till now. Currently still our agent. Matt Rice at uta. And Matt Rice was the first guy that said, how I met your mother. That's the one. We told him the idea and just those people that believe in you at the right moment where you need it. And I will say my wife, too, who is a dancer, choreographer, the fact that she speaks a creative language and is talented and believed that I was talented and in my teen, 18 years old when I met her, she had no proof that I could really, really make a career of this. But. But seem to have no doubt that I could. And those, Those people that do that for you, it's just such a gift.

[Alec Lev]

Especially because I think show business in particular, like, we've talked about this, like neither of us had parents or family in the industry. Like, we were really. We made the great migration to Los Angeles. Like, we, we really did it in. In a much more kind of traditional one foot in front of the other way. But it can feel like there's such a velvet rope. Like, how do you get behind? Like, how do you get into the. That room? You know, how. And to have someone who has a career, who is doing it kind of whisper in your ear. It's really the. I don't know, it's like a secret incantation or something. Like, you feel. I at least felt blessed by Jane and Peter and people that were. Who knew what they were talking about and who felt like they recognized something in me and said, no, no, no, you're one of us. You know, it was. Was. I mean, you know. Yeah, it feels like it gives you a little golden ticket, right?

[Josh Radnor]

It does. And yeah. What if Lily had said to Marshall, yeah, go work for that place for five years. We need the money. Versus, no, stay. The guy I fell in love with, and we're going to figure it out. That's a big difference.

[Alec Lev]

That's what a great spouse does, is they remind you who you are because we have amnesia about who we are so often. And they're like. They keep the pilot light lit of. No, that's not who you are. Are. You know. Well, great question.

[Josh Radnor]

Very supportive question. The qu. This question in and of itself was proof positive of what you.

[Alec Lev]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

What you just said about your lovely wife. So thank you, Jornetta.

[Alec Lev]

Welcome back. We are at the third act of our episode where we like to read some listener mail. If you would like to write us. Or to record a voice note that might end up at the beginning of the show. Or a letter. Letter. Write a letter that will perhaps be at the end of the show. Go to how we made your mother dot com. Or you can even go quim dot com. Is that right? Alex? You can H W y m Wait.

[Josh Radnor]

My m. H W M y m. How your mother. Yeah, yeah.

[Alec Lev]

And go up to Contact and it should be clear from there how to submit to us. And Alec, what do you. Are you jumping in? What's. What do I see on your face.

[Listener]

In the middle of this episode? I suddenly remember. Remembered.

[Alec Lev]

Yes.

[Listener]

The letter I've given you is lovely, but I have a better letter and I want you to get it right now. So I'm literally emailing you this new letter right now. This is live on air. Here we go. As soon as you get it, Josh, just go ahead with it.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, my God. I don't even have it yet, so. Oh, no, there it is. I got it.

[Alec Lev]

There it is.

[Josh Radnor]

Okay. I love the audience can experience our slow Internet. Here we go. All right.

[Alec Lev]

All right. Okay. Very exciting.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, should I read this?

[Alec Lev]

Alec, why don't you talk to you guys?

[Josh Radnor]

Great. Okay, so this is hot off the press. This just came in or you just remembered this one?

[Alec Lev]

I just remembered.

[Josh Radnor]

Okay, so this is from Steve Olson, our Emmy winning, multiple Emmy winning set designer, production designer for How I Met yout Mother. We did talk about him a few episodes ago and we talked about how great he is and that he. He really knew the bar. He wanted to make McLaren's like, which is McGee's because he lived right around the corner. I think this letter is going to speak to that hot off the presses. So here we go. I'm learning this in real time. Josh, Craig and Alec says Steve. Wow. Thanks so much for the shout out on the latest episode of How We Made youe Mother. General Questions. General Questions podcast. It was really a thrill. My kids got a kick out of it too. They have both watched the entire series multiple times and can name any Episode way faster than I can. Ken, it has been so wonderful listening and watching your podcast. It takes me back to that amazing time working on How Much yout Mother. It really was an honor to have had the responsibility to create the visual world for this legendary show. Steve was so good at doing that. By the way.

[Alec Lev]

That's in the letter. Steve added that in the letter.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, he wrote that. I'm just reading it verbatim. He's really cocky from those Emmys. All those Emmys. And Craig, you had it reads and talks about himself in the third person. And Craig, you had it right. I did live in NYC for quite a while. 13 years to be pretty exercise from my early 20s to my late 30s. And I feel like I lived through so many of the experiences that Ted and Marshall encountered. I related to them so much. I related to Ted because I was a single guy, a designer, living in the big city, trying to find my way professionally and romantically looking for the one. I also related to Marshall because like Marshall, I am from Minnesota.

[Alec Lev]

Wow.

[Josh Radnor]

I forgot that Steve forget every of me. That's not in the letter. And I have always been accused by New Yorkers of being too earnest. Earnest, too honest and lacking the native New York snark and sarcasm. How I Met yout Mother meant so much to me. It was the longest show I have worked on by many, many years. And as you guys have reiterated so often, it immediately became a family. Coming to work each day was always a joy. And I always looked forward to seeing the next script or outline and to start working on the next wonderful, bizarre, cool, amazing set. Thank you for those nine creative years, those nine years of Creative Playground. Thank you for this walk down Memoryland. Sincerely, Steve. Steve, we love you. He was. You couldn't, you could not scare Steve Olson if you tried. We would throw insane stuff at him on a really short clock sometimes and he would do it and he would create it all and then it would get torn down on Wednesday night and a whole new thing would come up. Thursday morning. I mean, overnight and a Thursday morning. He was just so good. He really deserved those Emmys. And a lesser production designer would have had some sort of a stress based breakdown based on how much we asked of them. And Steve just was cool as a cucumber.

[Alec Lev]

Well, he also, I think there were Susie Greenberg, Steve Olson, Pam. These were just unflappable people. Could not rattle these people. They were, they were. You want them in a foxhole, you.

[Josh Radnor]

Know, they were just challenge accepted. They were challenged accepted. That's what they were.

[Alec Lev]

But also, also shout out not just to Steve, but to his team. I mean, you'd see the national bag. Like you'd shoot all day Wednesday late. You'd come in Thursday morning and the set you shot in was gone. A whole new set was thrown up. And sometimes you would. You'd be leaving and they'd already be breaking down the set you just shot in like 12 minutes earlier.

[Josh Radnor]

You're like, I hope we got that scene because that thing is getting torn the f apart.

[Alec Lev]

It's unbelievable.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your whole team. Steve was amazing. All the accolades were well deserved.

[Alec Lev]

And shout out to Steve's kids who love the show. Happier appreciating your dad's work. I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Listener]

How WE made your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Richard Reeves at Point of Blue Studios and our digital content producer, AKA Gen Z Master is Emily Blumberg. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner, with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majewski. Special thanks to Lola K. Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we made your mother.com to sign up for our Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show.

[Alec Lev]

Want some merch?

[Listener]

Click on the store link or go to howyougetyourmerch.com subscribe to Josh Radner's Muse Letters on Substack. Order credit Thomas debut [e-mail] novel and you could subscribe to My Dead Fathers Society, also on Substack, to learn about how you make a difference. This show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures. People will in fact dance the real question.

[Alec Lev]

It just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

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