Howwww We Met Ted | (S1E1) "Pilot"

Summary

How We Made Your Mother: Episode Summary – "Howwww We Met Ted | (S1E1) 'Pilot'"

Released on March 24, 2025, “How We Made Your Mother” is a deep dive podcast hosted by Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas, exploring the making and enduring legacy of the beloved sitcom “How I Met Your Mother” (HIMYM). In the premiere episode titled “Howwww We Met Ted | (S1E1) 'Pilot'”, Radnor and Thomas dissect the series' pilot episode, unraveling its narrative complexities, character dynamics, and cultural impact.

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1. Introduction to the Pilot Episode

Josh Radnor [01:38]:

"Welcome to another very special episode of How We Made Your Mother."

Radnor and Thomas open the episode by highlighting the pilot's significance in setting the tone for the entire series. They emphasize the pilot's role in introducing the core characters and establishing the show's unique narrative structure.

2. The Antidote to Loneliness

Josh Radnor [02:23]:

"I think he [Lorenzo] hit on the essential thing. It's an antidote to loneliness."

The hosts delve into the show's foundational theme of combating loneliness. They discuss how HIMYM creates a sense of camaraderie among viewers, making them feel part of the tight-knit group navigating life's ups and downs in New York City.

3. Breaking Down the Pilot

a. Character Introductions and Dynamics

Craig Thomas [07:20]:

"Ted is in the center, caught between these two worlds. Barney is the devil on his shoulder, and Marshall's kind of the angel on his other shoulder."

Thomas explains the pilot's effective introduction of the main characters—Ted, Barney, Marshall, Lily, and Robin—and their interrelationships. He highlights the clear motivations and desires that drive each character, laying the groundwork for their development throughout the series.

b. Key Scenes and Memorable Quotes

Josh Radnor [04:55]:

"But he was right. It's going to be a story."

Discussing the pilot's pivotal moment where Ted declares his love for Robin, Radnor and Thomas analyze how this scene encapsulates Ted's character as both passionate and flawed. They reflect on the emotional weight of the moment and its ripple effects on the show's trajectory.

Josh Radnor [19:25]:

"The kind of engaging center, charming center of this show, to be the eyes and ears for the audience."

Radnor praises his portrayal of Ted as the relatable everyman, whose journey the audience can intimately follow. He acknowledges the complexity of balancing Ted's optimistic outlook with his frequent missteps.

c. Narrative Structure and Time Jumps

Craig Thomas [04:58]:

"He's a story we tell someday."

The hosts dissect HIMYM's innovative use of flashbacks and time jumps, particularly in the pilot. They commend the show's ability to weave multiple timelines seamlessly, enhancing the storytelling depth and keeping viewers engaged.

4. Character Development: Barney's Vulnerability

Craig Thomas [09:24]:

"Barney wants Ted to be his brother. He's so jealous of Marshall."

Thomas delves into Barney's character, emphasizing his need for friendship and acceptance despite his outwardly brash demeanor. He highlights Barney's simplistic desires in the pilot—wanting Ted to wear a suit and declare him as his best friend—as foundational to his complex character arc.

Craig Thomas [48:56]:

"We were always trying to make a caricature and a parody."

The discussion touches on the delicate balance of portraying Barney as both a parody of toxic masculinity and a deeply vulnerable individual seeking genuine connections. Thomas reflects on the challenges of ensuring Barney's actions are viewed critically rather than admirably.

5. Production Insights: Shooting the Pilot

Craig Thomas [07:56]:

"I remembered watching you do that speech on that street at the CBS Radford lot."

Thomas reminisces about filming the pilot, particularly the emotionally charged scene where Ted confesses his love for Robin. He describes the camaraderie on set and the magical feeling of creating something special with the cast and crew.

Josh Radnor [46:10]:

"Where'd the Olive theory come from?"

The hosts discuss the creative process behind crafting the pilot's scenes, including inspirations for recurring themes and running jokes like the "Olive Theory."

6. Navigating Network Feedback and Title Challenges

Craig Thomas [44:21]:

"We were very nervous it was gonna come out the worst. But it didn't."

Radnor and Thomas recount the challenges faced during the pilot's focus group testing, particularly criticisms about the show's title. They express relief and gratitude that the network supported their vision, allowing HIMYM to retain its unique identity despite initial doubts.

7. Themes Explored: Destiny and Resilience

Craig Thomas [60:45]:

"Destiny sounds almost too neat for a lot of what happened on that show."

The conversation shifts to the show's overarching themes of destiny and personal growth. The hosts reflect on how HIMYM portrays life's unpredictability and the importance of resilience, both for the characters and the audience.

Josh Radnor [64:41]:

"If you were a molecule in a cell... you don't know that destiny exists."

Radnor draws a parallel between the show's characters and molecules in a cell, illustrating how, despite chaos, there is an underlying order and purpose—a testament to HIMYM's narrative depth.

8. Personal Reflections and Growth

Josh Radnor [29:33]:

"I think I had some naivete a little bit."

Radnor shares personal insights about his growth alongside his character, Ted. He discusses his journey of resilience and vulnerability, mirroring the lessons learned by Ted throughout the series.

Craig Thomas [73:24]:

"That's why we made the show."

Thomas emphasizes the profound impact HIMYM had on fans, as evidenced by heartfelt messages like Lorenzo's, which illustrate how the show provided solace and inspiration during challenging times.

9. Fan Impact: Lorenzo's Heartfelt Message

Lorenzo's Message [00:45 - Skipped Ads]

While initially presented in the transcript, the podcast skips advertisements and non-content sections. However, Lorenzo's message plays a significant role in demonstrating HIMYM's profound effect on its audience. His heartfelt narrative underscores the show's role as "medicine for the soul" during difficult periods.

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Craig Thomas [76:22]:

"It makes me feel so small and like we were just channeling this bigger thing."

In wrapping up the episode, Radnor and Thomas express humility and gratitude towards the fans. They acknowledge that HIMYM transcended its creators, becoming a cherished part of countless lives worldwide. The hosts invite listeners to engage by submitting their stories and questions, fostering a community that continues to celebrate the show's legacy.

Josh Radnor [80:26]:

"Am I in love with you or just New York City?"

The episode concludes with a reflective tone, embodying the show's spirit of love, friendship, and the complexities of life in New York City.

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Notable Quotes:

• Josh Radnor [04:55]: "But he was right. It's going to be a story."
• Craig Thomas [09:24]: "Barney wants Ted to be his brother. He's so jealous of Marshall."
• Josh Radnor [19:25]: "The kind of engaging center, charming center of this show, to be the eyes and ears for the audience."
• Craig Thomas [44:21]: "We were very nervous it was gonna come out the worst. But it didn't."
• Josh Radnor [64:41]: "If you were a molecule in a cell... you don't know that destiny exists."

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Conclusion:

In "Howwww We Met Ted | (S1E1) 'Pilot'", Josh Radnor and Craig Thomas offer an in-depth exploration of the HIMYM pilot, shedding light on its intricate storytelling, character development, and the emotional resonance that has cemented its place in pop culture. Through personal anecdotes, production insights, and fan interactions, the episode paints a comprehensive picture of why HIMYM continues to captivate audiences decades after its original airing.

Transcript

[Josh Radnor]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries.

[Lorenzo]

You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Lorenzo]

Hi, I'm Lorenzo from Italy and I love How Met yout Mother. I could talk for hours about the show, how it helped during really hard times. But the last time I saw an episode yesterday, of course, I realized that it makes me. But not simply good because it's funny or whatever I'm talking about really good. Such as when you listen to music that makes you feel alive, playing your favorite sport, eating a great pizza. Such as when you are with the people you love. Because when you watch How I Met yout Mother, it's so powerful that you feel you're part of the gang and you feel like you are in the 10th season and you don't know what happens then, but it also heals the little cracks in your heart. The show is rich and directed and played so splendidly with the plot and the jokes and details that at the end, you watch any episode and for that 20 minutes, you are happy. You have that stupid smile or a little tear on your face, but also deep inside, you can't cling to the past, but the past makes who you are.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm alone. What a pity I won't be soon in New York City when I see you. Please permit me to tell you everything in New York City. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another very special episode of How We Made your Mother. They're all special. That was so wonderful and so heartwarming. Such a great way to kick off this episode. I think. You know, when, when we're exploring this mystery of why do people love How I Met yout Mother so much? Why do they keep coming back to it? Why do they watch it 15 times over? I think he hit on the essential thing. It's an antidote to loneliness.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It makes you feel like you have some friends. You're rolling through the good times and the bad times with people. And I think we're in a Real. It's a. You know, there's a lot in the UK and jap, they have ministers of loneliness because there's such an epidemic of loneliness in throughout the world right now. There's something about the way it's all structured and I think the phones and social media, like it's just everyone's kind of getting more and more siloed.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

And I think there's something almost like nostalgic about, oh my gosh, look, they're hanging out in real. Like no one's checking their phone. I mean, phones were there.

[Craig Thomas]

There's some phones, but it's.

[Josh Radnor]

There's some phones and how I met your mother. But they weren't obsessive about them. They were more interested in. In eye contact and how they could make each other laugh.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And they were. Well, we should say this is the episode where we talk about the pilot. Right? We should say that right off the bat.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, this is the pilot episode.

[Craig Thomas]

And one thing I loved rewatching the pilot, which I hadn't watched in years. Literally, I hadn't watched it in years. One thing I loved is Ted's awareness and kind of all of their awareness in the story of this is going to be a story we tell someday. There's this idea that we are creating stories. So the show is very conscious of its storytelling in the way that people kind of are. They're like, we're having a night to talk about and we're all that way and we're sharing that. And when you share that in person and go and have actual experiences and run around to the bar and stealing blue French horns and encountering this new woman with five dogs, and you're on the adventure with your best friends. There is. God, there is this feeling of warmth in there. And that's what Lorenzo was talking about. Lorenzo, thank you for.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, thanks again.

[Craig Thomas]

I'm so glad that it comes through to you.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, look, Craig, they're self mythologizing characters. They're creating their own mythology. Much in the way that you and Carter talked about leaving New York City and feeling like, oh, this was a time in our lives we want to like capture and rewind and reflect on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

It's so conscious of itself as a story. The pilot, I was delighted by that. It's so kind of postmodern. And it's mostly through Ted. Like, there was a line that really jumped out at me. I mean, so much jumped out at me. Mostly I remembered it all, but every now and again a line was like, oh, I didn't remember that line. And Ted. There's a line from Ted that he says, like, you're going to tell this story at our wedding, Marshall. Right before he marches in to go. To go freak out Robin by saying, I love you on their second encounter in one night. And that idea of this is going to be a story. And by the way, the story does not go the way Ted thinks. That is not what happens.

[Josh Radnor]

But he was right. It's going to be a story.

[Craig Thomas]

He's right. It was going to be a story.

[Josh Radnor]

It's a big story. I have a question for you. Is the pilot just called Pilot?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, the pilot's just called Pilate. Sort of disappointing. We probably should have.

[Josh Radnor]

What would you call it if you could rename it?

[Craig Thomas]

I think I would let Lorenzo from.

[Josh Radnor]

Italy title it heal the cracks in your heart.

[Craig Thomas]

If I could go back. Yeah, the cracks in your heart are healed by pizza. Or they call it the ministers of loneliness. Now that's a cool. That's a band name. That's a band name.

[Josh Radnor]

I wanted to write a song called the Minister of Loneliness. I tried.

[Craig Thomas]

That's fantastic.

[Josh Radnor]

It sounds like a Bell and Sebastian song to bring it back to Bellevue.

[Craig Thomas]

It's such a Ball and Sebastian song. Sebastian, write that song if you're listening, else we're going to. And it won't be as good as.

[Alec Lev]

Yours because, like, the blue French horn would be a nice title maybe for this podcast.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

God damn.

[Craig Thomas]

Why did you have to do that to me, Alec? That's what it should have been.

[Alec Lev]

I know.

[Craig Thomas]

God damn it. I can't go. We can't go back. There's no going back.

[Alec Lev]

We are going back.

[Craig Thomas]

Right? Okay. That's right. That's what this whole podcast is. Can we just say it's called the Bluefront showing. We'll pretend that's.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's from henceforth.

[Craig Thomas]

Can we retcon that?

[Josh Radnor]

So. Yeah. So I watched the pilot also with Jordana, my wife, who's never seen the show.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, I'm so. I. I want to hear about this so badly. I've refrained from asking you much about this. I. Yeah, well, you gotta back this up a second.

[Josh Radnor]

She loved it. We'll get to her. But I also hadn't seen it in. I don't know. I mean, I don't know that I went back and watched it much after it was on. I think for some reason I probably saw that episode the most times of any episode because we did a couple screenings of it.

[Craig Thomas]

We did.

[Josh Radnor]

And then you end up at the upfronts where we debut the show for the advertisers. You end up seeing a ton of clips of it. So I actually knew the show pretty well. Yeah. And I was startled at how much it's still in my bloodstream.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yeah. No, me too.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I was watching it with Rebecca, my wife, who also watched it 5,000 times at that time. Cause it was just. We were. You work on that one episode for months, and it becomes your entire life. And then everything starts to move much faster after that. She said, I cannot believe how, like, off book, verbatim, I still am on this pilot. She knew every line of it. She was like, this must be a pretty good pilot because I know every fricking word of this thing.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And I felt the same, except a couple of those moments that surprised me.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, let's try. Let's talk a little broad strokes. Like, what were your headlines? Like, what were the things that leapt out at you that you thought, I'm really proud of this. Or, this is a great memory. Or tell me what your experience was like.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, it was. I was proud of how clear it was. It was like it just had this clarity right away. And I remember that when we pitched the show, Carter and I, we talked a lot about this idea of, like, Ted is in the center, caught between these two worlds. Barney is the devil on his shoulder, and Marshall's kind of the angel on his other shoulder. And he's sort of aspiring towards Marshall and Lily. And it's his mad dash and his rush and jumping ahead and thinking he can just decide it and make it happen. That is sort of the disconnect there. And failing to get that immediately will sometimes send him back to Barney. And Barney will be the seductive other force away from the way with, like, a pretty bad idea with a terrible idea. And I was also. But the simplicity, like, Barney becomes so elaborate in series, but in the pilot, his whole story, he has two simple drives. You can't even really call it a story. He has the presence, because Neil is great in it, and he's this larger than life character. But he just wants two simple things. It's not even a story. He just wants Ted to put on a suit.

[Josh Radnor]

That's right.

[Craig Thomas]

That's all he wants. He wants, I want Ted to put on a suit. And he achieves that goal in the end. And he also wants. And I was this. I was really struck by this, and I was proud of this. Because people do debate Barney, would Barney play nowadays, all that kind of Thing and Barney, his other. His only other desire. He's not chasing a woman in that episode. He's talking trash a little bit. But he really wants two things. The second of which is I want Ted to say I'm his best friend, which is the saddest and most vulnerable and sweetest kind of drive. He just wants to know he's important to Ted, which makes Ted important to the audience. And Marshall and Lily are like Ted's parents. You know, they're the same age, but they're home on the couch waiting to hear, how was your night out, son? And so he's their son, and he's important to them, like, he's their son and to Barney. Barney wants him to be his brother. And Barney wants sole ownership over Ted. He's so jealous of Marshall. Probably. I mean, Marshall being Ted's best friend. It's not probably. He knows it drives Barney so crazy.

[Josh Radnor]

That Marshall's like, I always liked that they fought over Ted as this kind of, like, prize trophy friend. That always. I always thought that was very sweet. And especially, it's where, in a weird way, you see Barney's most, like, at his most vulnerable is when he's pleading for Ted to declare him his best friend.

[Craig Thomas]

He says it multiple times in the pilot, I'm your best friend. Say, I'm your best friend. And just, like, it's so. Man, I'm proud of that launch of that character, because that's who he is. He's vulnerable, he's a little broken, and he's needy. Ted is the planner getting way ahead of himself. Marshall and Lily just got engaged. Now it's my turn. That's the plan. The plan they got. They threaded the needle on that. Now it's my turn. So it's going to happen tonight. And Marshall and Lily are this old married couple interacting with, like, you know, their peers who seem 20 years younger than them. It's so clear. There are kind of these three tracks going, and then Robin is this fourth track that gets added. I was. I was very proud of the clarity.

[Josh Radnor]

Of the thing, and I wrote you.

[Craig Thomas]

This little ditty to sing to you.

[Josh Radnor]

In New York City. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help.

[Craig Thomas]

Hey, Josh?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Who is your support system, and how have they changed your life?

[Josh Radnor]

Well, I have a vast support system, Craig. Vast.

[Craig Thomas]

That's good. But it could be vaster. Was there a particular time in your life when asking for support from a therapist or from your community was helpful to you?

[Josh Radnor]

Every time. Every time. I've Asked. It's been helpful. Yeah. Think about your favorite leaders, mentors, and idols. They don't have all the answers, but they do know when to ask questions or seek support from their community. It reminds me, I worked with a great director in graduate school named Ken Washington, and he told me when he was a young director, he used to think all the ideas have to come from me. All the good ideas or they're not legitimate. And he said he got a little older and he realized, you know what? Good ideas can come from anywhere.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Collaboration is the key, right?

[Craig Thomas]

It is the key. How I met your mother. 100 people working on that. Yeah, it's totally.

[Josh Radnor]

It's easy to forget we're all better when we have a support system behind us.

[Craig Thomas]

Therapy can be a source of support for any area of your life. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all to knowing that we're better when we ask for help.

[Josh Radnor]

It's also easier, right? I don't want to.

[Craig Thomas]

It's just so much easier. You can't. You can't do it alone.

[Josh Radnor]

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[Craig Thomas]

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[Josh Radnor]

Build your support system with better help. Visit betterhelp.com your mother to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L P.com/ your mother, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Josh.

[Josh Radnor]

We've obviously been working real hard on this podcast. Back breaking hours.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. Too hard a back breaking hour. Almost an hour.

[Josh Radnor]

We're due for a break, right? We got to take a break at some point or we're just going to work ourselves into the ground. What do you. What do you have on tap? How are you going to unwind?

[Craig Thomas]

Here's what I'm doing. For my daughter's 9th birthday, we are going to Paris, where she will turn nine.

[Josh Radnor]

The Paris.

[Craig Thomas]

The Paris. Not the one in Vegas. The actual Paris. It's not the Epcot one. Not Epcot. None of these. Boy, you gotta. You gotta travel more, brother. There's this whole other Paris that actually was the first one, the OG Paris.

[Josh Radnor]

Wow.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. It's got. So it's got the Eiffel Tower. We're gonna. We'll talk offline about this, but I'm going there. But I'm gonna assume most people know what that is. And we're gonna go. We're gonna eat a fancy lunch for my Daughter's birthday in the Eiffel Tower.

[Josh Radnor]

Whoa. You can actually eat in the Eiffel Tower?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. You just. Well, it's not legal. You just kind of crawl out and you kind of, like, get on a little ledge and just eat a sandwich. No, it's like this fancy restaurant. She was there when she was 2, has no memory of it. And now she will actually experience Paris, the one in France, which is in your.

[Josh Radnor]

It's time. Let me ask you this. What's happening with your apartment while you're gonna be in Paris?

[Craig Thomas]

Nothing.

[Josh Radnor]

It's just sitting there.

[Craig Thomas]

It's just. Yeah, I thought it would just sit there. Why?

[Josh Radnor]

You know, you could. You could make a little money.

[Craig Thomas]

Really?

[Josh Radnor]

You could turn your nice vacation into a little money maker.

[Craig Thomas]

Wait a second. Wait a second.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm talking about Airbnb. You know what I'm saying?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, you are.

[Josh Radnor]

When you're gone, you can host your apartment on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Craig, find out how [e-mail] host and now back to the show. Also, it's funny when you consider the origin story of each character, which. Then what. What episode. What season was how we met everyone else or how I met everyone else?

[Alec Lev]

How we met everyone else is season three, episode five.

[Josh Radnor]

That's a great episode.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I love that one.

[Josh Radnor]

And what's funny to me is, like, well, Ted and Marshall were freshman roommates. That's like a very clear, kind of obvious, not obvious, but it's a way one meets a good friend, possibly, or an enemy.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Barney started talking to Ted at a urinal at a bar, and then slides into a booth and starts trying to change his whole style. Like, it's a very strange. He just muscles his way into this guy's life.

[Craig Thomas]

He really does. It's so aggressive.

[Josh Radnor]

We're gonna be friends now. I'm gonna change how you dress and how you approach women. And I just think he saw him as a project. But more than that, he was like, I. I want to roll with this guy. Like, I thought there was something lovely and weird about, like, why was everyone always fighting over Ted? Like, they wanted. They wanted to be close to this guy, which I always liked.

[Craig Thomas]

I love it. And you feel. You feel it right away in the. In the pilot. And you feel the angel side and the devil side. Both want Ted. Ted really wants to be on one side.

[Josh Radnor]

You did that joke on Halloween, literally, right? Didn't Barney dress Barney as a devil?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, we did that because we said, let's make literal how we pitch the show. I like that because it's really how we pitch the show. We said, you know, because there was. My wife and I were kind of like Marshall and Lily. We and Carter all went to college together. We met in college and then I was in New York city in our 20s and Carter was like the single guy going out and having fun and like the bee and out till three in the morning. And I was like sometimes at like a bed and breakfast upstate in upstate New York in my 20s with like people in their 60s, like playing Scrabble. And every now and again we were like, this is. We're getting old. We're making ourselves really old, really fast. And that just seemed funny. And I would, sometimes I'd be getting my calls and texts and stuff from these guys, these Late show writers that were all out having these legendary nights. And I'd be like, every now and again I'd be like, ah, I kind of wish I was out there. And we played that with Marshall a little bit. But Ted wants to be where Ted wants to be doing Scrabble at the bed and breakfast. It's just a funny dynamic and it feels like that's immediately there. Marshall and Lily want Ted to find that woman. We did a whole episode about that. The Front Porch Test, right? We want to be growing old on a front porch, playing Scrabble, drinking lemonade, iced tea on the front porch with Ted and whoever this TBD woman's going to be. But Barney wants to do everything to keep that from happening.

[Josh Radnor]

There's also a lot about in the pilot especially, but kind of really baked into the show is how old you are and what's almost appropriate for you to be doing at what age. Like Ted is obsessed in the pilot that he's 27 and they weren't supposed to get engaged until they were 30. It's like this arbitrary thing, like no one getting engaged until they're 30. And Marshall throws the whole plan off and then it throws Ted into an existential crisis. But even, you know, sometimes getting out over your skis in terms of like, you don't want to be at the bed and breakfast playing Scrabble. Like that's gonna happen soon enough. Like, don't rush it. I think there's something Ted has such a, like a motor on his life that is going. And he's like, he's worried he's falling far behind. Which is kind of hilarious to think about nowadays. Like a 27 year old single guy in New York City freaking out about that like, I think it was a little weird then, but it's even weirder now.

[Craig Thomas]

It's so weird. It's so weird being like we're basically like 50 and like looking at this 27 year old being like, I got it all planned out and like, I gotta wait till I'm 30. And you're like, Jesus. And never mind the fact that you also looked like such kids, all of you, it's so crazy. Which I, we also, just off camera, we looked like children as well, Carter and I. And it's, it was, I mean, what, what did it feel like to you to look back and like see pilot you and be sort of assessing it through now through these eyes and just be looking at this? Did it bring you back to that moment of being like, this was a different me, you know?

[Josh Radnor]

It did. Oh, I mean, one I haven't, I've had a beard for so long, it was like weird to see my face. I remember that guy. Like, I remember that guy. He doesn't exactly feel like me or he feels like a, some weird avatar of me or some iteration of me that is not quite around. But I was struck and I say this very delicately and I don't want this to come off as self aggrandizing. Like, I was aware as the show went on that there was a lot of love for Ted, but there was also like a lot of, there were some haters, right. And I was new to fame, I was new to being seen every week in people's homes. So I, and I'm, and I, I'm a sensitive person. Like, I'm pretty thin skinned. I don't think I'm alone in that, like, you know, getting trolled or getting, you know, and I didn't get, I didn't get abused in like a, you know, some sort of epic way. But I, I, I, I think I went through the series feeling I know what I'm good at here.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I also know that sometimes Ted's eccentricities annoy people or whatever. But I watched the pilot and I was struck by the fact that I thought I was really good in it. And I hope it's okay to say that you were. I thought there was a job to do with this guy that was kind of a high level of difficulty, right?

[Craig Thomas]

To be like, oh, it was very high.

[Josh Radnor]

The kind of engaging center, charming center of this show, to be the eyes and ears for the audience, but also to be passionate and lovesick and forward, you know, moving. Like it was a big ask. And I thought you know what you did really, you did a good job. Like, it was almost like telling a younger part of me, but you were really hard on yourself and you did a great job. See, this is.

[Craig Thomas]

This is what this podcast is a little bit like. I hope people can hear that and think about that. Like, really think about that. That it's taken 20 years for you to look back and say that.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost like most high schoolers, like, are pretty insecure and most high schoolers are kind of looking at themselves. And, you know, three years earlier, you looked like a totally different person. And you're adapting to this new body and this new voice and new, new, new body hair and like, your body is changing for everyone and. And it's a very startling experience. And then you look back on pictures and you're like, you know, we were pretty, like attractive young kids. Like, we were really hard on ourselves, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

That's how I felt watching the pilot. Like, man, I was so hard on myself.

[Craig Thomas]

I looked fine.

[Josh Radnor]

I looked. I looked like a guy who belonged, you know, I looked like a guy who belonged on the. On the tv. You know, I felt like you were.

[Craig Thomas]

So self assured in the role and very, very confident. I mean, some. Some of that was also that Ted's high status in that pilot. Everyone wants what's best for Ted.

[Josh Radnor]

Everyone wants attention. But I also think you guys wrote in and we're going to unpack this like, ad nauseam. So I don't want to get too much into it, but you wrote in some. One of the things that I struggled with the first season, and I remember talking to you and Carter about this is there'd be an episode like, drumroll, please. Where Ted was absolutely the hero. He was the romantic hero, and he was held up and almost shot in a heroic way. And you were supposed to be rooting for him the very next episode. I think it was like he made like, the mixtape for Ashley maybe or something. Like, it was something so silly. And it was like I could tell that there was an invitation then to make fun of him. And I remember saying to you guys, I'm getting whiplash. Going from like, I'm a hero to I'm a ridiculous person to be ridiculed. So it's a. It's a thing I want to talk about. It's a thing I want to talk about it. Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

I mean, it's a.

[Josh Radnor]

No, I'm not saying I wanted to play, like, Jack Bauer or someone like, who is just always a hero of the sitcom that's not what I'm saying, but I did. I do feel in the pilot, even though Ted has his foibles, he has the kind of hero's journey momentum, you're rooting for him. Which I did find. I do. We can talk about this in a second. But, like, I was so into him being with Robin when he goes up in the suit and it's really quite sexy for prime time. Just in terms of, like, the way they're looking at each other.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, there's real bedroom eyes and there's real, like. And the moment he's. I knew it was coming, but the moment he says, I think I'm in love with you, I almost was like, Barney, Marshall and Lily, like, what? Like, it was such a bad move. And of course it sets off the entire series, so it needed to happen. But it was such an ill timed, ill informed move. So I was actually crushed by that in a way that I was like, okay, this pilot's working. Like, if you're mad at him for ruining that.

[Craig Thomas]

I think the show kind of called its shot so early to not just be like, this is the. It all makes sense. Half hour. It's like the other things at 8. The show right before us on CBS and the show right after us are that and the show after that. All the other shows were that because they were these sort of like, goes down easy kind of like simple comedies. And that's the thing that's so hard to explain to people because we were this weird black sheep on that network. But that was the other thing I was proud of. In that pilot we called our shot, like that moment Josh, where he says, I love you. And you cut to you time jump to three different timelines of people saying what you jump to. I mean, you have Robin say what? You jump to the future kids 25 years in the future saying what? And you also jump to the future group all saying what? Right. Being told the story, like, being told the story of that later. And that's boom, boom, boom. In like 10 seconds. There's three timelines, one of which is literally 25 years in the future. And that was like, maybe my favorite moment rewatching the pilot, because I was like, I remember having. I don't know if you remember this, but we had notes and concerns on that moment from the studio network. They were like, is that just too confusing? Because the one that was deemed most confusing was jumping ahead to the bar. You know what I mean? Later. And it's the gang saying, what? Cause they were like, are People's brains gonna catch up to that idea that.

[Josh Radnor]

We'Re jumping to their.

[Craig Thomas]

They're talking about it in the future. It's so cool.

[Josh Radnor]

It's my favorite quote about filmmaking from Billy Wilder. He says, let the audience put two and two together and they'll love you forever.

[Craig Thomas]

Yes. And that is what that pilot did at a few key spots. So the I love you spot. Ted has been the hero. He's having his hero's moment. He absolutely fucks it up in an incredibly jarring nails on a chalkboard cringy way that even made you yourself 20 something years later go no. And scream at the TV. I think you texted me that night. You're like, I'm yelling at Ted on the TV right now with Jordana. And yet that spurs you into that great little boom, boom, boom. Three different timelines. Jump, jump, jump. And that was the show saying, this is who we are.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. But a pilot is challenging. Cause you have to teach the audience how to watch it. And especially if it's a show that as narratively complex as How I Met yout Mother. You had to do a lot of training of your audience to watch the show.

[Craig Thomas]

And that was our argument to keep it. We said, let's keep it because this will show people that we're gonna be jumping around all the time. It'll keep you on your toes. This is not like lie back on the couch looking at your phone, watching. This is like, pay a little bit of attention here. And it's to their credit. The student network said, great, keep it.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, let's go for it. I did want to go back to one thing you said about we're not the Tidy Resolution Show. I wonder if some of the ferocious dedication to the show is almost like that friend you have that tells you the truth.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Is like you're closer to the person who will say the thing or, or say the thing because they love you.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know my friend John, John Morrow, who. Shout out to John, who did our art for How We Made youe Mother. And he does all my art. But he said to me one year years ago, and I don't think he'll mind me saying this, but he said, hey, you've known me for a long time now. Like, what are my blind spots? Like, what am I missing as a person in my life? And he really wanted that feedback. And then I, I, I asked for it back, you know, just because I really trust him. And said with a lot of love. But there was a. This author, Sahil Bloom, who I'VE become friends with. He has a book out called the Five Types of Wealth. And Jordana and I went to hear him at the 92nd Street Y. Susan Cain interviewed him last night. It was a really wonderful evening. But he said this really great thing. He said, if. If your life is a movie, what is the audience shouting at you to get that you're not getting? You know, it's like, killer's inside the house. Yeah. Or like, he loves you, you idiot.

[Craig Thomas]

Like, like say I love you on the first date, Ted.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, but, but it was funny because that's the energy of. Oh, yeah, you know, I was doing what you were having. The, the. You were having characters at various times do the thing that the audience would do, which is like, wait, what? You know.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And that. What, what, what? Was also our way of acknowledging that, like, we're asking the audience to go along with something here that they're going to be yelling about. So we need people yelling literally throughout 25. It was 25 years of yelling at Ted.

[Josh Radnor]

It's almost like saying, like, look, we're outraged too. We were outraged at this behavior we.

[Craig Thomas]

Wrote people are still gonna be yelling at this in the year 2030. The kids are yelling at him.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's an iconic thing.

[Alec Lev]

Let me just ask a question from.

[Craig Thomas]

The Internet about Alec Lev, our producer extraordinaire.

[Alec Lev]

We've got a lot of questions that have come in and please send them everywhere that you send questions. But we're all over online, on our website, on Instagram and hshane03 asks you, was it difficult to first get into playing Ted or did you relate to the character and did that make it easy to do? So when you're looking back on this character, that, again, is so positive, so forward thinking. Were you that at 27, and how do those two connect?

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I mean, I was, what, 30, 31 when we did the pilot. I can't remember, but. So I'm three or four years older than Ted. I always felt like I was playing someone younger than me. So it was almost like a little bro. Like my little brother. I've described him as like my little brother that I love dearly but sometimes wanted to smack around and tell him to snap out of it or even.

[Craig Thomas]

Say it that way. That's a fantastic description.

[Josh Radnor]

I think I shared some of Ted's ambition and pluck. I do think at that time I was much more. I wouldn't say I was more optimistic. I was. There's a term called spiritual bypassing. I don't know if you guys have ever heard that, but it's basically like, always kind of moving through and looking at the bright side, and it's a very shadow denying kind of posture. And I think in some ways, and this is like, Ted, like, I hadn't I. Throughout the course of the run, throughout my 30s, like, I needed more life. I needed more suffering, I needed more failure. I needed, you know, and I had failures along the way. I got fired for my first pilot, which I've talked about, like, I need. But there's something about you want. You get seasoned life seasons, you, you know, and I don't think we have to engineer stress and strain and setback and stumble for people. Life does that, right?

[Craig Thomas]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

But I think I had some naivete a little bit. I think I didn't quite understand what it was like. I think if I had a little more confidence in the pilot than I did maybe later and maybe. And I know I regained it at some level, but. Or at some point. But that's interesting. There was something. I was so such a driven young actor. I really knew this was a big opportunity. I really wanted to seize it. But, you know, I lived in New York City. I drank a lot of beer at bars. I got scared to talk to women. And some nights it worked and some nights it didn't work. You know, like, I went to a small liberal arts college. I was from Ohio. Like, there were a lot of biographical things that lined up, up. But I also think I had. I constitutionally, I think, have. I don't know what it is. I, I, I, I, I. I went on a very spiritual journey when I was in my 30s on, you know, off screen. And I was really trying to ask myself some big questions because I think what happened to me, and this is something we could talk about later. But, like, when you have success, you get to the kind of top of that mountain. It's the thing of, like, you climb to the top of the ladder and realize maybe it was propped against the wrong wall. You know, like, is this, Is this what I want? Is this what I'm looking for? And so I really started to ask myself some big questions about is this enough? You know, what do I really want to be doing? And maybe those are, you know, not unmosbyish. But I think I appreciated his energy and his passion and his optimism and his resilience. I mean, that would be the biggest thing that I would almost like to learn from him. And honor about him was, man, that guy got kicked down and just came back. He Came back.

[Craig Thomas]

Resilience. That's a great word. That's the word.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Resilience and vulnerability. You know, he was not afraid to say how he was feeling. He was not afraid to. Well, that's, I think, heroic qualities for a man.

[Craig Thomas]

I agree. And I don't think you were seeing that in comedies. Like, you weren't seeing a man sensitive. Like the speech Ted gives after fucking up, after blurting out I love you up in Robbins. You don't get that amazing speech from Ted. And so wonderfully acted and performed by you out there. I mean, that is just a home run. There was, like, tears in my eyes rewatching that. In part just because of how good it was and in part just remembering being there that night, watching you do it on that street at the CBS Radford lot. That was not where we shot How I Met yout Mother after the pilot. We shot the pilot in the Valley at the CBS lot lot, and then shot every other episode, basically at the Fox lot in west la. So it's completely different. But for the pilot for cbs, that's where we had the space and the money sent us there at that moment. But I had this memory, Josh, of you out there and the magic of that night. And it was a night shoot on the fake New York City street. But it looked beautiful. It was all lit up all pretty. You know, there's that thing where you went down the sidewalk, glisteny and shiny and magical. And just watching you there, it's like I stepped into that TV now from the year 2025 back into 2005. And I felt I was there with young you and young me. And I had this unbelievable wave of nostalgia that I was, like, overcome by. And I was like, I wanted to go be with them. I wanted to go be there. I wanted to feel what they felt. There was, like this thrumming aliveness. I felt of, like. Yes, we were, like, in our late 20s. Or 30. We were 30, I think. And there we were. This was our first big shot. And we were all, like, vibing and aligned and connected. We knew what we were doing. I remember watching you do that speech, which, again, is so brilliantly performed, brilliantly written. I give Carter so much. Like, Carter really wrote. He wrote that speech so beautifully. I feel like that's such a Carter. That was really Carter connecting with Ted, I think. Cause Carter was single. Carter was saying how he. He wanted to do. Everything Ted said in that speech is where Carter wanted to be. It was his same aspiration. And it's very Vulnerable to write that. And you just performed it with such vulnerability. But also this kind of heroism. You forget all about how much Ted fucked up two seconds ago, saying I love you up in the apartment because now he's your hero. And he's so emotionally articulate and intelligent in that speech that I think he wins you over. And you don't get that speech unless Ted fucked up upstairs. So Ted has to be the guy who can fuck up upstairs. And it has to be the guy that absolutely sweeps you off your feet by acknowledging the fuck up and then surprising you with this unbelievable sentiment that you did not see coming in that moment. So, I mean, it works.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It works so well. Because Robin gave him the look.

[Craig Thomas]

She gave him the look.

[Josh Radnor]

And this old man, he must admit he fell in love with you in New York City.

[Craig Thomas]

And now commercials.

[Josh Radnor]

Hey, Craig.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, Josh?

[Josh Radnor]

Do you have a phone?

[Craig Thomas]

I did. I just recently got my first phone.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, you did? I was wondering when you were gonna get one. You were impossible to reach for years.

[Craig Thomas]

I thought it was a fad.

[Josh Radnor]

I thought you were waiting it out.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, no, I'll admit, they're here to stay.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have one, too. And I just got word that our co producer, Doug. Dougie switched up his plan to Mint Mobile. Is that right, Doug?

[Craig Thomas]

It is.

[Josh Radnor]

It is. I switched to Mint Mobile. Tell us about. What's your experience been like with Mint Mobile?

[Craig Thomas]

I had one of the big carriers.

[Josh Radnor]

I'll call them. We won't name names.

[Craig Thomas]

No names.

[Josh Radnor]

I got three years ago, and I've.

[Craig Thomas]

Been pissed for three years.

[Josh Radnor]

All due to the phone carrier. Right? Nothing else in your life was going wrong? Yes.

[Craig Thomas]

I live in the middle of Los.

[Josh Radnor]

Angeles and at my home I have to use WI fi calling. What's that?

[Craig Thomas]

Crazy. It's crazy. I switched to Mint Mobile about two weeks ago and that problem is solved. Hey, amazing.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm staying. We're happy for you, Doug. What are some of the benefits?

[Craig Thomas]

I'm realizing now it's also gonna cost.

[Josh Radnor]

Less, which is wild.

[Craig Thomas]

So not only does it work at the place where I live, in the middle of a major metropolitan city, I've heard of la, but it costs less money, so I have that to, like.

[Josh Radnor]

Buy my child things. We're really happy for you, Doug.

[Craig Thomas]

We get it. You're a good dad. You buy stuff for your kid. You don't have to brag during. During the Mint Mobile ad.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, if you like your money like Doug, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans@mint mobile.com. your mother that's mintmobile.com your mother.

[Craig Thomas]

Go call your mother, Doug.

[Josh Radnor]

Upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. Equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Take taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Craig Thomas]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need. Have coverage options to protect the things you value most, File a claim right on the State Farm Mobile app and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. End of commercials. Back to shell.

[Alec Lev]

Can I, can I ask both of you, how present were you at the time? I mean, Craig, like you would describe to me, all of a sudden you go from writer to owner of rather large small business with millions of dollars on the line and you know you're going all over. Were you able to appreciate this in the moment? Could you breathe through it and go.

[Craig Thomas]

Look what we're doing here? I think I did. Because, Alec, we didn't know if the show was. We thought that was it. We were shooting a pilot and we were like, I can't believe we got it this far. We'll be able to show this to our friends. I mean, I did have this feeling that something was magical about a moment. Like watching Josh do that speech on that location shoot outside on New York Street. Like, I had the feel like, this is gonna go, but you don't know. It was just like, let's make this one good episode and we'll see if it ever goes anywhere. Probably it won't. The odds are against you. Way against you. So I didn't yet feel that, like, we're running a big business. I was like, we have this amount of money and this number of days and these actors, let's make the best 22 minute show we can. And it felt very fleeting and maybe that was part of its magic. It felt absolutely fleeting in that way.

[Josh Radnor]

It felt very innocent. Because you look back now and you're like, well, of course we know now they're gonna do 208 epis of this. 207 more. But at the time, we were just trying to make a good show that would get the attention of the network and that would put us one good episode, right?

[Craig Thomas]

One good One. And another thing, I loved watching it. Just to tick off some more things that's jumped out at me watching it. And then I'm dying to hear more about what it was like watching it with Jordana. I really am. I know we're saving that maybe for the end. I'm just so curious. But you know what? I loved how everything was important. Everything was important right away. The whole episode begins with Marshall. Changed my whole world. You changed the game. He screwed everything up by getting engaged. That's a big deal. Your best friend got engaged. So Ted decides I'm gonna go meet the love of my life. And all these important things start happening, right? And all these, like, everything feels high stakes. It all takes place in this one night. I love all the time jumps, but the stakes of the show are one night. And I love that in the background of this and raising the stakes in this weird, kind of stealthy way that people might not notice, there's a guy on a bridge who's gonna jump off the bridge in Robin's news story. And I think it's so important to the pilot that there's this life or death tension just ticking. There's this little clock ticking in the background. Is that guy gonna jump off that bridge? And how that sort of factors. Back into the moment, Ted. You know, the moment in the bar where they watch, they see that he didn't jump, and Marshall says he didn't jump. Which, first of all, I felt relief. I was like, oh, thank God that guy didn't jump. Like, I was just back into it. And it was just like that idea of these high stakes, and it's all life or death. This is our life. This is our life right now. Tonight is gonna be a story we tell forever. Are we gonna live? Are we gonna die? Are we gonna take the leap? Are we gonna not take the leap? Is taking the leap good or bad? Ted has a great joke about that, but, boy, I just. I loved how everything felt like the most important thing in the world in that pilot.

[Josh Radnor]

What is it? In the van that pulls up, they say, we got a jumper.

[Craig Thomas]

We got a jumper. Yeah, that was the one. By like. Does the newsman just pull up in front of her apartment? There you are. We've been searching.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, we've been looking for you.

[Craig Thomas]

Where have they been looking?

[Josh Radnor]

Did they come to the restaurant? How did they know? There weren't trackers on our phones yet.

[Alec Lev]

Craig, you pointed out that you didn't know if there would be more than one episode. This. This was what you were Doing. And you sort of put your all into it. I think one thing that shows out in this pilot, very much so, is, yes, it launches a series the way a great pilot launches. It's also just a great romantic comedy. In 22 minutes. You kind of have a whole movie happening in here. And like, you're saying, because everything is so important. It has that cinematic feel, and it's got that story going on in the background, and it has this romantic lead going through quite a bit. You just happen to end this romantic story with not getting the girl instead of getting the girl.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

But it really felt like you piled in a full tale in here. And I think that's why it gets.

[Craig Thomas]

A lot done in a hurry. It gets a lot done in a hurry. I was also proud of that. Like, by the end of act one, I made a little note to myself, like, so much has happened. So much has happened in Act 1. It's like, you know, so much very quickly and so much has happened. I also loved another little moment. I love that Robin's friend in the corner going, what's taking so long? You know, calling out. Cause the show kind of like, it's just such a hilarious thing to look back at and go, little did we know how it was gonna be. 208 episodes. That woman. That was the truest line in the whole pilot. It was the woman who goes, what's taking so long? Cause the whole thing was gonna to take longer than anyone ever thought. And we brought her back near the end of the show. I love the what's taking so long? Girl. It just sort of became like the theme of the show. What's taking so long? Well, if we're gonna take nine fucking years, how long is it?

[Josh Radnor]

Robin and Ted are talking.

[Craig Thomas]

Robin and Ted are talking. And she wants. Yeah, the friend wants her to come back to the corner once Jake is all up. She just had her breakup and she's missing. Yeah, she hates all men. She's like, where's my next round? I need to get drunker than this. I just got dumped. And that exchange, that also was so great. The other moment, I thought. I mean, many moments, I thought, hey, this might go somewhere. You and Robin up at that bar. Ted and Robin up at that bar. And the whole thing that ends with the drink in the face, which was one of the audition scenes that got both of you cast because you were magic. Even in an audition. That was another moment where I was like, ah. I remember feeling pretty good in that scene. I mean, all over the place. I was Feeling pretty good about it.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you remember also, it was the very last scene we shot was with Ranjeet around the table at the bar. The funny reveal that Ranjit is doing.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God. Signal. Ranjeet. He's so good.

[Josh Radnor]

Marshall.

[Craig Thomas]

He's so good. Marshall. Mendez.

[Josh Radnor]

How many episodes he ended up doing what, 20 episodes.

[Craig Thomas]

He did a whole bunch. Yeah, he was an important. He was. Oh, man. Him also kind of shitting our. Ted. You signal. That was the signal.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. But I also remember they gave us real champagne.

[Craig Thomas]

To one hell of a night. To one of the. Hell, yeah, I forgot about that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, they gave us real champagne, which is not something I've done a lot on a set. But it was the last night of the shooting of the pilot, and we all had a little bit of champagne, and there was just such a warm, good feeling on set. Like, I think we made something good. That's what it felt like, right?

[Craig Thomas]

It felt like we had made something good. It felt like we had made the thing we set out to make. It really felt that way. Life. Any endeavor in life, especially a TV pilot, too, doesn't always feel that way. And it just. It had this mad. There was just a magic to it. I just felt like a magic and a life to it and something that was bigger than the sum of its parts and bigger than me or you or anything. And it was like I felt so much gratitude watching it and so much gratitude to the fans because people found that it was a weird show for CBS with a weird title. Weird title. Oh. And I mean, we tested that pilot and were told. So after you have this magic time shooting the pilot, and then you take it and you take it to these focus groups and you put it through this kind of somewhat corporate testing process, which every pilot does. And one of the takeaways from the testing was people hate the title title. It was like, you have to. I remember the testing people being like, everyone's confused by this. I have a strong recommendation to change this. And they were saying it in front of the studio executives, and I was like, don't. Shut up. Don't say that. Can we just talk over here, away from them? Because we did not want to change the title. The title is the thing. Thank God. Again, the studio and the network, they believed in the show. They knew the title, sold the show, and so we didn't. But there were discussions. Is the title too confusing? Those time jumps I talked about. Boom, boom, boom.

[Josh Radnor]

What?

[Craig Thomas]

What? What? Sure enough, some people in the focus group that had accepted $50 to watch a pilot on a Sunday afternoon in the valley, wandering in from the mall next door or whatever. They were like, I don't get it. That's weird. And if you were asked, did that confuse you? You go, yeah, that is confusing. What jumped to the future, what happened? And people. So it's very nerve wracking when you put something this intricate and unique through that process and you're just terrified it's gonna come out the worst. But it didn't. It really didn't.

[Josh Radnor]

When you were talking about how much had already happened by the end of act one, I feel like because of the narrative structure, it's such a plot heavy show. It's such a propulsive show. So it can't withstand a lot of fat on it. It's like everything was trimmed down to its essence. Which is astonishing because my memory of doing the show while. While the plot is delightful and strange and always surprising, you still get so many good jokes in there, but they're character revealing and they're plot forwarding all the time.

[Craig Thomas]

They're one or the other or both. That's exactly it. They're character revealing or plot forwarding or both. There's almost nothing that isn't that. And by the way, just. That didn't start that way. That cut of that pilot came in. It's supposed to be 22 minutes. I think it was 31 minutes. We overshot. We cut out whole scenes. All this fat. We learned so much editing that show. It really was built in the edit room in a lot of ways. And boy.

[Josh Radnor]

And when you see the edited version and you're just heartbroken most of the time because you're like, oh, that's gone. I love that. Where did that go?

[Craig Thomas]

No, this just got better. This just got better. Everything we cut out. We should have cut out everything. Oh, my God, it was so overwritten. It came in so fat. It wasn't great at first. And we whittled it down on what you just.

[Josh Radnor]

I have two questions. One, where'd the Olive theory come from? From.

[Craig Thomas]

I think that was also a Carter Bayes gem. But it's funny because it was sort of a Marshall and Lilly thing. It might have been Carter's observation of being close friends with me and seeing me be this old married guy at age 21 when we met, basically. And then even more so by the time I was 30 and the negotiations of couple. I think it was Carter's stealth commentary on watching a guy in a relationship bend a little bit and choose your battles. And I wouldn't want to dissuade this person of this thing. And like, I think it was. I think it was Carter's clever. Clever commentary slash slight diss on maybe being my close friend, watching me in a relationship with a strong woman. And I was like, I don't wanna. It was sort of. I think it was like. I think it was a little bit bad, which I will take that hit any day.

[Josh Radnor]

The only thing in the pilot that I found that made me cringe and I think would pro. You would not write today is Barney's opening lines.

[Craig Thomas]

Right? Yeah, yeah. It's like he's talking about, like, yeah. What type of women he likes. And I used to like, yeah, it.

[Josh Radnor]

Was half Asians and now it's Lebanese.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. It feels a little insensitive. And obviously that, you know, that's kind of who Barney is. It's kind. I watched. I thought the same thing. I felt a little bit not proud of that, but I felt like that was our opening thing for Barney. What a big thing. What do we do?

[Josh Radnor]

It's a tricky thing. And this is something we'll probably unpack about that character as we go. But it's a tricky thing where it's like you never were actually endorsing Barney's worldview. You were trying to write a character that had these very strange kind of out there ideas and schemes and all this stuff. But it's a tricky thing when you're writing a character like that who's held up to not be emulated, but to be slightly kind of mocked or roll your eyes at them. But then. Then you get people. It's kind of like Michael Douglas and Wall street, you know, Oliver Stone, who's as lefty a filmmaker as you could get, created a character that, like finance bros in college like, had Gordon Gekko posters on their wall.

[Craig Thomas]

I know.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, greed is good. And they started. It's like they missed the entire condemnation. Right, right.

[Craig Thomas]

And. And that's. That happens with Barney, you know, Barney. We imagine Barney as a parody of toxic masculinity. And underneath it, there's this very needy human who wants Ted to put on a suit, play laser tag and be his best friend. That's what I loved in this pilot. It reminded me of the original intention of Barney. I was watching the pilot and I thought to myself, barney on Saturday night is playing laser tag with children by himself.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, it's quite sad.

[Craig Thomas]

It's sad in a way. And it's like he really wanted Ted to come, and Ted didn't come and he's pretending he's like, laser tag is so awesome. But he abandons laser tag immediately to come join Ted. And all he wants is for Ted to put on his suit and be reassured he's his best friend. And that is the essence of Barney. I was proud of that because sometimes we do. Sometimes people watch Barney and they think he's to be emulated. Sometimes people watch Barney and they go, oh, you couldn't get away with that now. And I guess my response to that, for me, and it doesn't mean we always hit the target here, but for me, we were never trying to get away with that. We were always trying to make a caricature and a parody. And then even as early as a pilot, we were trying to dig underneath that bravado and that suit and see this kind of needy, human, vulnerable person underneath. And I could point to a lot of other episodes with Barney where we tried to do that down the line. And I think that was the genetic code, the DNA code of Barney and the pilot. I think the best Barney moments through the series did that. And maybe the ones where we were just doing Barney jokes that became single entendres or became sort of one level. And maybe we did too much of that at times, and it was like we weren't making the commentary about Barney or we weren't showing the person underneath. I'm sure we did plenty of that. That probably doesn't hold up as well, but I think the moments where we were showing the human, the needy human underneath it all, that was the character. That was the character. Neil played that so beautifully. You really get that in the pilot, I think. And that's so funny.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what else I was struck by is how late they stayed up being our age now.

[Craig Thomas]

I was so tired watching it.

[Josh Radnor]

I was like, how it's got to be. It's like 1:45. Like, they're going to meet at the bar for last round. Like, Jesus, these people have a lot of energy.

[Craig Thomas]

I was so tired. I was watching it at like 9:53 at night, and I was like, I. I got to start turning this off pretty soon.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm going to ruin my next day if I don't get to sleep. Yeah.

[Alec Lev]

Josh, just to have it on the record, do you remember what the first scene, the first scene you shot was of this whole. This whole show?

[Josh Radnor]

It might have been the first one. It might have been Marshall, like the fake out that he was proposing to me. That sticks in me.

[Craig Thomas]

I think it was Jason proposing on his. I think that Was it? I think we said, let's start at the beginning because that's essentially the first scene. That it's sort of like a montage and photos and music and that's it. And I think Pam, again, our director, was very smart to say let's begin at the beginning and let's end at the ending. He'll have to jumble in between, but let's give ourselves that frame. That is, that's what it was. And it was you and Jason together. And we haven't talked much about how great Jason is in the pilot and what a great best friend chemistry you guys had immediately in that scene that sets the whole tone for the death scene.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what was making me laugh was the three of them in the cab waiting downstairs is really funny. And this is a really good thing to actually talk about. One of the things we all talked about and agreed, the cast, you, Carter, Pam, was the idea on a sitcom. Most sitcoms, people are saying hilarious stuff and no one ever laughs. But we decided as friends in a show that we wanted to have some verisimilitude to it. If someone said something that was clearly meant to be a joke, we would laugh at it or choose not to laugh at it.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, but react.

[Josh Radnor]

React to it. Barney and Marshall are really making each other laugh. And I think Neil and Jason were really making each other laugh in the back of that cab. And there's something really charming and real about it.

[Craig Thomas]

That is a great observation that carried through the whole series and I think made the show feel realer door to door.

[Josh Radnor]

Pam or sue, she would always cut in these reaction shots of like someone says something at the booth and you cut to them laughing. And I thought it made the show kind of extra charming that we weren't oblivious to humor.

[Craig Thomas]

Jason was really good at that. He would be. He would be loud, he would be like he was amused to be in that pilot. Like he was having a good time and it showed he was happy to be there.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah.

[Craig Thomas]

And like you really felt that and you felt that between you guys. Yeah. And them down that cab is great. Even Barney saying to Marshall when they're alone in that cab, don't get married. Even that felt big. It's like he just got engaged that day and Barney's going, don't get married. There was so many. Every scene had some high stakes thing in it or two or three of them. Even that jumped out at me where I was like, that's important. That's one of his close friends saying, you're making a Horrible mistake on the biggest day of his life, proposing to Lily. It's a bold swing.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, it's also like they say, who you marry is the most important decision you'll ever make. I mean, this is high stakes stuff anyway.

[Craig Thomas]

It's high stakes. And Barney's afraid of losing Marshall. I'm gonna lose Marshall. I'll never see Marshall again. He's gonna get married and go away. Which again, is that thing from Barney. He doesn't wanna lose people because, well, we dig into Barney's childhood later in the show and we see that he grew up without a dad and he did not have the easiest time of it. And I like that you sense that in that pilot.

[Alec Lev]

Craig, can you just talk a little bit about Marshall and the. Since this is your. In some way your marriage put up on screen that you decided to do about their story and what it was like now seeing them compared to how you were thinking about it back then.

[Craig Thomas]

I just thought Jason and Alison were so sweet and endearing and wonderful. It made me. It just made me so happy to see. I liked remembering that this was a big part of the inception of the show, that they're the sort of the foundation. They're the adults, they're the parents. They're like, tell us about your dates, son. There's some kind of emotional grounding and foundation to them that they bring. And Lily's more grown up than Marshall, just like most women in their 20s are more grown up than men. As my wife, fiance, then, wife was compared to me, and I liked that dynamic. She was the grown up. She comes in, she has been felt up by her, a kindergartner. She has a handprint on her boob. And she just comes in and is so funny and charming. And Jason's more. And insecure and a little bit of a lost puppy dog, but he loves her so dearly. And the bond and foundation that they provide, I think brings everything down to earth in that episode. And they're getting engaged. They're gonna get married. They're the promise of what the whole season's gonna be. There's gonna be a wedding. This is big, important stuff. And you love them right away, I think. I'm not saying I'm such a lovable person or my wife is, I like to think, very loveable. I mean, I think people, anybody that's come this far in the podcast already knows that. But I really was. I was aware of how much they anchored the universe of that show. They were what Ted wanted to be, and the audience, they Were the promise of what was gonna happen in that season. They're gonna get married, we're gonna see a wedding. Or are we right? Later in the season, it gets complicated. I also remember Josh getting yelled at. At TV Critics Association. Remember we had a How I Met yout Mother panel launching the pilot when the show got picked, and all the critics, one after the other, raised their hand, asked us questions for Q and A, and they were all like, so will you admit you made a mistake not making Robin the mother? They had such chemistry in the pilot. Do you remember this? I've done a Hinnyum style flash forward here where the show is picked up and we're at a TV Critics association event where you sort of introduce. We do a panel. There's a Q and A.

[Josh Radnor]

They were mad at you guys. They were mad at you.

[Craig Thomas]

You're Madamy and Carter. They were yelling at us and drilling us, setting the tone for many different moments where that would happen in the show. And I remember one guy saying, will you admit now that you made a mistake? Now that we see the chemistry between Ted and Robin, and now you're locked into this pilot ending, that she's not the mother. You had the future dad say it's not the mother. Are you seriously considering before it airs, going back and changing that, and she's just the mother? And we're like, no. And then. Outrageous.

[Josh Radnor]

The show's over. The show's over.

[Craig Thomas]

It's over, right? And it's like, well, then it could just. And I was like, what is the show after that, the guy. They're like, well, it could just be about them dating, but that's not the show.

[Josh Radnor]

This is a bigger issue, which is people don't like to live with ambiguity. They don't like to not know how something they don't like. The discomfort of this didn't work out the way we thought it was going to. But you know what? Neither does Ted. Neither does any of the things.

[Craig Thomas]

Neither does Ted. And neither does Ted. And again, like you being mad at the I love you moment now, watching it when they. When so many. When half the room was furious at us at this, it was like 300 TV critics. They were mad at us, and we were getting yelled at. I remember being like, jesus Christ, I wish I had, like, had a couple whiskeys before coming out on the stand. Are we going to be tarred and feathered? Like, what's going on? And I remember having been told by the CBS publicist, Beth, she was like, no, none of them are going to want to ask you a question. They're going to ask Neil about Doogie Howser. They're going to ask Allison about Buffy. They're going to. You won't get two words in it. It was like, first question. Hey, I want to talk to those motherfuckers that didn't get Ted and Ramen together at the end of the can they step forward and be shamed.

[Josh Radnor]

I always think it's funny when you tell a storyteller or creator like, I consumed everything you did, I read everything, or I watched the whole thing, and I am declaring to you that you did something wrong with it. Here's what I would have done. Here's how I would have written it. It's like.

[Craig Thomas]

It's not subjective.

[Josh Radnor]

Write your own story. Go write your own story.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, But I remember later that night when I finally had had a couple of whiskey, feeling like, this was good that they got mad, just like you said, it was good that you felt you were invested. So when Ted said, I love you, even now, you got mad.

[Josh Radnor]

It's way better than indifference.

[Craig Thomas]

Way better than boredom or indifference or swimminess. And I will say Alyson Hannigan got us out of that by. Cause we were getting harangued about. Well, you promised the mother and the title, and then you fucked it up at the end. And Alyson Hannigan had this line where she goes, well, guys, think about it. On who's the Boss? You never found out who the boss was. Everybody in the tca. Everybody in the tca, like, cracked up a laughing, like, enormous laugh. Enormous laugh. Can I say, saved us.

[Josh Radnor]

Also, Alyson Hannigan, like, every couple weeks would say the funniest thing I'd ever heard. Oh, yeah, but she would, like. She was like stealth. She wasn't constantly cracking jokes. It's just out of the blue.

[Craig Thomas]

She was a really good one.

[Josh Radnor]

She would save it and she would just. It would detonate. It was so she can be really funny.

[Craig Thomas]

That joke lowered a. Like, hel. A helicopter ladder down. And Carter and I just grabbed onto that joke and just were. Pull out to safety.

[Josh Radnor]

No. Yeah. So we can. We can introduce my lovely wife, Jordana, who is kind of part of the reason we're here. She's a lover of tv. It's hilarious. She's seen many TV shows and for some reason she'd never seen a single episode of How We Met One. Not this one. Which for me was a great relief when I met her. I mean, it's one of those things where if people have seen the show. You don't get a chance to make a first impression with them. They have this preconceived notion about you. And it was just so wonderful that she hadn't seen the show. So it really. I trusted that she was with me for the right reasons. But we are now embarking on this rewatch together, or her first watch, rather. We watched it the other night. Night. I will say she. A couple of times. You know, when I was looking at Robin in a certain way, she would go, I know that look.

[Craig Thomas]

I was gonna ask. I was like delicately gonna try to ask that. I'm thrilled you volunteered it because it's. You guys did have real chemistry in that pilot again 20 years before you ever met Jordan. Yeah. Yeah. That's.

[Josh Radnor]

No, she. I. I mean, she was delighted. I think she can watch it with some objectivity and remove. You know, I don't think she's. I mean, it'd be silly for her to say, like, get away from that woman. It was 2005.

[Craig Thomas]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. But she did record a question for us. So she. She. I don't know if she'll ever be on here live, but she. She's going to slip us these voice notes so we can. We can hear it.

[Craig Thomas]

You use the word destiny at the end of the pilot, which is such a spiritual, powerful, meaning centered word. And it's very comforting to think that we all have a destiny, that the twists and turns are happening to each of us for a reason. But I'm wondering about your personal beliefs about destiny, your personal beliefs then and now. And also what it was like to.

[Josh Radnor]

Write a show where you had total.

[Craig Thomas]

Control over the destiny of five characters. When we can feel so out of control when it comes to our own. It's such a smart question. We wrote this pilot, again, not really knowing if it would go beyond this. And so we felt very much in the moment of that night, we had ideas for where the show would go. But I never. Even when we dove into really making it and having more and more ideas about how this would unfold, I never felt like masters of these characters. Destiny. I think Carter and I, that wanted to let these characters surprise us. We wanted to respect these characters. I came to have this delusional feeling like they were real people. I really, like. I hear writers talk about that, and I don't always feel that way when I write stuff. This was like, by the end of How I Met yout Mother, these were real human beings to me. I didn't feel like some puppet Master. I felt like. I don't think Carter did either. I think we felt like these are our friends and we're kind of seeing what happens to them. We're kind of guiding them. Every now and again, we'd feel like, okay, we have to make something. We have to make something bad happen to one of them. We need an emotional turn. We need to explore something hard. And it felt evil. It felt evil. That's part of what I get from Jordana's question. We were controlling this destiny, and we'd have to put them through this torture sometimes, and especially Ted. And we'd have to make our dear friend Josh Radner go into this kind of pain and do things like saying, blurting out I love you to Cobie Smulders in her apartment in the pilot and make them crawl through hard shit so we could come out the other side and all kind of learn something together. And often it was us making Carter, myself, the other writers, stuff we took from Josh's life, other conversations we had with the actors. We would take our own really hard shit and put the characters through some version of that. And so it felt shared. We tried to feel the pain with them, but was it strange to sort of come to feel like these were my friends, almost like my family or my kids or something, and then sometimes put them through hell, but have this feeling like we knew it was all gonna work out somehow in the end, but even the end was complicated. Right. And is there a neat bow on any chapter of life ever, really? Quite. It just sort of keeps going and complicating. And that's sort of Ted's lesson in the pilot and in the series. And so I guess I felt a great deal of respect and a great, deep, almost delusional connection to these characters as we wrote them. And I felt like I was going with them and sort of cathartically putting some of my own shit or Carter's shit or whatever into these characters lives and seeing what happened to them. But it was always with great care. Sometimes I felt very guilty. I felt guilty making Ted go, like, what? Use that conversation you cited, Josh, where you're like, can't Ted just have a good moment and not be kicked in the nuts the next episode? It's an interesting thing. It becomes this gladiatorial Roman gladiator, like, let's throw some lions in there and see what happens.

[Josh Radnor]

Did you and Carter talk through more globally about the idea of destiny as a major theme of the show?

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, we definitely. But also, I think destiny as Defined in how much Mother to me is sort of the sense you make of things later. I think in 2030 future, Ted can see a sense of destiny and can see or magic, whatever you want to.

[Josh Radnor]

Call it, or order.

[Craig Thomas]

Destiny sounds almost too neat for a lot of what happened on that show. I mean, destiny puts you in certain right places at certain right times, and then life gets complicated in some whole other way after that wonderful moment.

[Josh Radnor]

I always love that Kierkegaard quote that I think is really. I sound like Ted right now, but it's a really. It's so appropriate for how I met mother that life can only be understood backward, but you have to live it forward.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. That's the genre.

[Josh Radnor]

And so you get both of them.

[Craig Thomas]

In how much we quoted that in pitch.

[Josh Radnor]

You get. You get older Ted who, who know. Who knows where all this is headed. He knows all the twists and turns, and he knows how he landed on his feet. And then the Ted that I was playing doesn't know any of that. The Ted that I was playing was like, this is the worst night of my life. Or this is calamitous. This is never. I'm. I'm done. I'm not going to be successful. I'm not going to have a family. Like, all of these things I. Sometimes I used to think about, about, like, if you. This is a. A weird thought experiment, but it pertains to the show. If you were a molecule in a cell and you were, like, sentient, like, you could. You.

[Craig Thomas]

You.

[Josh Radnor]

You could. You. You knew you were a molecule in a cell, and you could be interviewed and someone said, what's it like being a molecule in this cell? You'd be like, it's insane, man. I'm getting knocked around. Like, I don't know what's going on. It's just anarchy in here.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But the scientists looking through a microscope scope sees that there's a real order to what's going on in that cell. And that molecule has a destiny of some sort. Like, it's going to. Right. But from the perspective of the molecule, it doesn't know that.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I always thought that was kind of like how I met your mother. Like, Ted was the molecule getting knocked around inside the cell. But then older Ted was kind of the scientist who's like, no, no, no. I see how this is all coalescing and, and, and gathering steam and, and making sense.

[Craig Thomas]

Yeah. And I think destiny in the world of the show, to me is like the gratitude you feel for your life. Looking back and realizing that Even the hard parts had to happen. And they made you who you are, and you survived them, and you became who you are now, who you're happy to be. And you only achieve destiny when you're content where you are and you're accepting where you are. And when you're young, it's hard to feel that.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. And also, I think because we live in such an. A kind of insanely upbeat and optimistic culture where we're shadow denying and death denying and pain and suffering denying. If you really ask people what were the most meaningful moments of your life, they often involve struggle and heartbreak and setback and unexpected turn of events. Right. They're never like, I graduated from business school and I met the girl of my dreams, and I had no problem. Like, that's not what forges character, both in the larger sense of the word character and in this specific sense, perfect sense forges these characters. So, yeah, I think that. I think there. That dual kind of consciousness of watching people live forward, not knowing how this is going to unfold, and being quite, you know, scared, but doing the best they could. And then the older perspective of, like, you know, almost like he's watching himself and saying, like, keep going, kid. It's gonna. You know, almost like me talking to myself when I watched the pilot. Like, hey, kid, you were. You did okay. You did okay.

[Craig Thomas]

You did.

[Josh Radnor]

You landed on your feet. So, Craig, did we officially. Or did you officially rename the pilot the Blue French Horn?

[Craig Thomas]

In my mind, I did. How would I go? Is there a time machine so I can go do that? It should have been called that. I can admit it now.

[Josh Radnor]

The one, two punch of Blue French horn and purple giraffe would have. I mean, you might have.

[Craig Thomas]

It's all colors.

[Josh Radnor]

It's all colors. You might have wanted every episode to have a color in it.

[Craig Thomas]

God damn it. Every fucking pilot's called Pilot, and we should film ours. Can we just. I just need that to be Retconned. I don't know what to do about it. All right, I'll talk to the studio. They may have a time machine.

[Josh Radnor]

Before recording this episode, we asked you on Instagram from how we made your mother if you had any questions about the pilot. By the time we had finished recording an hour later, we had over 300 questions. So thank you for. For sending those questions in so we can announce now that you can look forward to bonus episodes that we are calling General questions.

[Craig Thomas]

General questions.

[Josh Radnor]

General questions where we rapid fire, go through as many of your questions as we can. We'll be doing that each week. So just look out on Instagram for a posting asking you to submit those questions. But also on the website we're collecting your stories. These are are stories of how you discovered How I met your mother. Hard times, it got you through what generally what how I met your mother means to you. So go to www.howwemadeyourmother.com, click on Contact to submit your story. And here is an amazing one. This is from Nefties from Paris. Oh, this is like the greatest thing we've ever read. This is the one we cheated and.

[Craig Thomas]

We read ahead on this one.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, this is quite an extraordinary letter. So we are so grateful for you. Nefties from. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.

[Craig Thomas]

I know. I don't know what to say.

[Josh Radnor]

From Paris. Sending this in salute. I was 12 years old the first time I stumbled upon How I met your mother. It was 2013. I was with my brother's girlfriend's little sister. We were very close friends. We had no money and spent our time inventing games, lives and careers for ourselves. She had a tiny purple couch with green stripes and sometimes we could watch series and movies on a tiny cathode ray TV that her mother had found at a flea market. If I remember correctly, that's where we discovered our love for sitcoms, especially How I Met yout Mother. I love how the scene is set. I love the description of the couch I'm already in. This series has been with me for so many years. I watch it when I'm happy, when I'm sad, when I'm sick, and when I'm perfectly fine. I didn't grow up in a functional, happy or loving family. How I Met your mother taught me that this wasn't a life sentence, that home is wherever you choose to make it. My home wasn't a place of shouting in tears, even if that's where I was born. My home can be anywhere with anyone, and I build it every day with that thought in my heart. This show taught me not to give up and to cherish what brings joy in life. Today I'm 23 years old, I live in Paris, and I'm a young journalist who meets her friends several times a week at the same bars, tells the same stories on repeat, makes the same jokes, and talks about love with her group in every conversation. When I'm surrounded by this family I chose sometimes, often I think of you. I tell myself that without this show, I might never have managed to escape the toxic environment I grew up in. I once shared my love for How I met your mother with a dear friend. Our teenage days were filled with references, singing bang, bang, bangity bang at the top of our lungs, throwing slap bets left and right, granting each other favors without question, and using wait for it in every sentence. That friendship changed my life. So intense, so complicated, that even though it ended long ago, I will always think of her whenever I think of you. One night, we slept over at each other's place. And in the morning. Morning. She left an unexpected gift, an unspoken message. She placed a pineapple on my nightstand, and I understood. My first love gave me a blue French horn necklace for our first Valentine's Day. I made him watch every season, and he cried for hours at the end. I have forced dozens of people to watch this series, and I've never left anyone unaffected, because that's what How I Met yout Mother represents to me. Every person who has known me has heard me talk about this show. And every person who no longer knows me will think of me whenever they hear its name. Name. I grew up with you at McLaren's. And I will never stop being grateful for what you have given me. Thank you, Marshall, for teaching me that kindness is the key to all relationships. Thank you, Lily, for teaching me to be a loyal friend, always there for my loved ones without losing myself in the process. Thank you, Robin, for teaching me that in the end, you have to be able to rely on yourself. Thank you, Barney, for reminding me how important it is to have fun. Thank you, Ted, for showing me that everything should be done with love. Love. Never out of fear. Thank you all for everything. You have been with me for two thirds of my life, and this journey will likely never end. I could write for hours more, but it's already late. And as we all know, nothing good ever happens after 2:00am thank you.

[Craig Thomas]

Wow. I got choked up the first time I read that. And I got choked up listening to it just now. Beautiful. Beautiful. That is why we made the show go. Thank you for that beautiful message. Really, really, truly moved. Hearing that. Truly moved.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah, I've read it a few times, and I'm stunned at the sincerity and the. I think back of movies and tv, sometimes it's filled with toxic, toxic, silly nonsense. And some of this show was, too, and we're atoning for that. But a lot of, you know, I learned how, like, I mean, I learned how to, you know, talk to women or even talk to friends. Like, there was so much that I learned from television and learned from, you know, when you fall in love, with a TV series or fall in love with a movie. Be. I mean, it was so trippy for me. Like, I was such a fan of that first Karate Kid movie. Like, to have Billy Zabka and. And Ralph Naccio on the show. And, like, they're in my phone now. Like, I really like those guys. They're fantastic.

[Craig Thomas]

But, like, great.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. I mean, just the. The trippiness of that. But that movie, I mean, talk about. I mean, Elizabeth Shoe, like, was, like, my first crush or one of my first crushes, like, in that movie. I just remember how much I learned from film and tv. And again, not all of it was great lessons. I had to unlearn some of those lessons. But it's so incredible to be a part of a show that takes up permanent resonance within people's hearts and psyches. And I'm just really stunned by.

[Craig Thomas]

Is stunning. It's stunning. That's the word. I feel stunned by it. And to have a fan like that who really got what the show was and then brought it around to all of these other people, I mean, that is the dream. To quote the show. That's the dream. That's why we made the show. It was kind of a message in the bottle to find somebody exactly like this wonderful person who shared this message and part where they said it wasn't a life sentence to grow up in a hard place and a hard time in a hard home to grow up and then realize that it's not a life sentence that you can find a family. And then sort of within this little letter, flashing forward to Paris and 23 years old and a young journalist who meets her friends several times a week at the bar and. And is kind of living her version of How Much yout Mother. It's just so epic in scope, what the show kind of carried through that timeline of her life. And just to think of it being an important part of that journey and getting and giving faith and hope and something to look forward to and realizing you're not stuck in a bad situation. You can choose your way into better situations. And, you know, the idea that the show inspired, that is really amazing. Thank you for sharing that message.

[Josh Radnor]

It also strikes me, Craig, it's like, you know, how there's that kind of. I mean, speaking of Star wars, which you know a lot better than I do, but, like, that kind of charge where people say, like, fans understand the series better than George Lucas does at some, like, cellular level. Like, not that you. You and Carter don't understand this show. I just feel like at some point when a show permeates into the culture, it actually belongs to the fans more than it belongs to the people who created it. And the fans actually are going to have insight into things and make connections and draw like certain parallels that you didn't even see or themes that they can tease out that they've watched it so much. I mean, genuinely, when people come up to me and say, I've seen the show 17 times, like I have not seen all these episodes, like they know this show way better than I know this show, or they'll throw like an old joke at me and I'm like, I don't know what that is. And they're like, they think I'm lying. Like they think that it's like part of my like DNA that, you know, and I'm like, I don't remember that it was, it was, it was 2008. But, but it does feel like the, the fans own it. They, it's theirs, you know, and in some ways we're going back and, and saying to the fans, hey, tell us what this thing is that we made.

[Craig Thomas]

Tell us what this is. That is what, that's what this whole podcast is. I'm loving it so much because at the time I identified, I over identified with it. I thought, this is me. This is the, you know, I, I by this thing we're making in this moment, in my 30s, and this is my shot and this is every up and down. I'll take it all like it's me. I'll feel like I failed if it's not great, et cetera. The lows are always lower than the highs, but you identify entirely by it. There's such freedom and just what a gift to realize it's so much bigger than any one person. It's not me. The show finished 10, 11 years ago now. And it's finding people and it's becoming their. And to go back into it from outside now and experiencing it through the fans eyes and realizing what it meant to people, it's humbling in the best possible way. It makes me feel so small and like we were just. It was our job just to channel this bigger thing, capture it in this moment of time where we were so lucky to all be in the same place at the same time, picking up on the same radio signal together from the universe and sort of channel, channel it into this thing, send it out into the world and see what happens. And this is the part where we get to see what happened. And it's wonderful.

[Josh Radnor]

I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City.

[Alec Lev]

How WE MADE your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Radner and Craig Thomas. The show was produced by me, Alec Lev and our co producer is Doug Matica. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point of Blue Studios. Artwork by John Morrow. Please follow, rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. It really does help the show. Our theme song is NYC by our own Josh Radner. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to sign up for our Sub Substack mailing list and for links to our social media. You can also click on the contact page to send us an email or a voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of the show. Subscribe to Josh Radner's muse letters on Substack, read Craig Thomas's published [e-mail] and you can subscribe to My Dead Father Society also on Substack to learn about about how you make a difference this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital heart disease research. Check out the Make a Difference tab at the top of our website. This episode was made possible by the support of Backyard Ventures Marketing provided by Tink Media. People will in fact dance the real.

[Josh Radnor]

Question it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?