Bunker Busting The NeoCons: Everyday Americans Want Nothing To Do With Another Forever War In The Middle East

Summary

Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec Episode: Bunker Busting The NeoCons: Everyday Americans Want Nothing To Do With Another Forever War In The Middle East Release Date: June 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec, host Jack Posobiec engages in an in-depth discussion with Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer and former Trump campaign communications director Caroline Sunshine. The conversation centers around the escalating tensions in the Middle East, specifically focusing on the efficacy and ramifications of using bunker buster missiles against Iran's nuclear facilities. The episode delves into the strategic, humanitarian, and political implications of potential military actions, critiquing the optimistic narratives often presented by mainstream media and neoconservative voices.

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US-Iran Conflict Analysis

Jack Posobiec opens the discussion by highlighting recent developments in the Middle East, including a significant Israel Defense Forces (IDF) strike on Iranian missile systems near Tehran and Isfahan. He underscores the anxiety among neoconservatives in Washington D.C., who are anticipating a prolonged military engagement.

"The neocons are in panic mode, absolute panic mode breaking out across all of Washington D.C. [...] As the warmongers heard all of it." ([07:07])

Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer echoes these concerns, emphasizing the complexity and potential futility of sustained military conflict in the region.

"It's a war of air attrition because you can't escape the math, ladies and gentlemen." ([07:15])

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Military Strategy and Bunker Buster Efficacy

A significant portion of the episode scrutinizes the effectiveness of bunker buster missiles in neutralizing deep underground facilities like Iran's Fordo uranium enrichment site. Posobiec challenges the prevailing narrative that a single or successive strikes can decisively dismantle such fortified structures.

"The media tells me everywhere I look, it seems it's just one bunker buster is all it's going to take. [...] Have you ever participated in one of these operations? [...] Seriously, we need to have a serious conversation about military matters here." ([08:58] - [15:00])

Lt. Col. Schaefer provides a technical perspective, debunking the notion of a "perfect strike." He explains the logistical and technical challenges involved in effectively targeting and neutralizing fortified underground facilities.

"You would have to have a strike package of 10 B2 Spirit bombers [...] penetrating deep enough to have an effect. And what happens to the radiation that comes spewing out once you penetrate the facility?" ([09:15])

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The Risks of Escalation

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of military intervention, with both Posobiec and Schaefer cautioning against underestimating the potential for escalation. They highlight historical precedents where initial optimism about swift military victories gave way to prolonged and costly conflicts.

"We get into the middle of things, Afghanistan, Iraq, with no clear understanding of what we're trying to achieve. We get thrown people in there, they give up blood and treasure in their lives for purposes that are completely obtuse and unclear." ([19:16])

Posobiec warns of the unpredictable consequences of military strikes, including the possibility of Iran retaliating against American forces or allies.

"Are Americans prepared to see what would happen if Iran were able to shoot down a B2 bomber?" ([32:45])

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Intelligence and Operational Planning

A critical theme of the episode is the importance of accurate intelligence and on-the-ground human intelligence (HUMINT) in making informed military decisions. Schaefer stresses that without reliable intelligence, military operations risk being ineffective or counterproductive.

"We've had to have people on the inside of it. That is hard to do if you keep blowing up scientists." ([14:52])

Posobiec reiterates the necessity of human intelligence over solely relying on signals intelligence (SIGINT) or satellite imagery, which may not provide comprehensive insights into the operational capabilities and readiness of adversaries.

"This is why you can't sacrifice human intelligence. This is why you need human intelligence." ([14:26])

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Political Perspectives and Public Opinion

The episode delves into the political discourse surrounding potential military actions, highlighting the disconnect between political rhetoric and public sentiment. Caroline Sunshine argues that a significant majority of Americans oppose further military involvement in the Middle East, challenging the narratives pushed by certain media and political figures.

"60% of Americans don't want to see more US military involvement in the Middle East. [...] But 60% of voices in media aren't reflecting that." ([25:09])

She criticizes figures like Mark Levin for labeling a substantial portion of the American populace as unpatriotic for opposing interventionist policies, drawing parallels to past instances where similar rhetoric was used to justify unwarranted military engagements.

"He's calling 60% of Americans unpatriotic. I think that's really dangerous rhetoric." ([26:00])

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Conclusions and Final Thoughts

As the episode draws to a close, Posobiec and his guests emphasize the need for a nuanced and informed debate on military interventions. They advocate for leadership that prioritizes clear objectives and sustainable strategies over impulsive actions driven by ideological zeal.

"We need to have leaders who always begin with the end in mind. What are you trying to achieve?" ([19:16])

Schaefer reinforces the call for strategic clarity and political will in pursuing military objectives, ensuring that any engagement is justified, achievable, and supported by the necessary resources.

"We have to have an appropriate and effective and achievable end goal that's worth sacrificing for." ([19:16])

The episode underscores the complexities of modern warfare, the limitations of military technology, and the paramount importance of aligning military strategy with public interest and informed policymaking.

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Key Takeaways

• Skepticism Towards Military Optimism: The episode challenges the optimistic projections of swift military victories, emphasizing the complexities and unpredictability of modern warfare.

• Importance of Human Intelligence: Reliable intelligence, particularly HUMINT, is crucial for effective military planning and operations.

• Public Sentiment Matters: There is a significant disconnect between public opinion and the narratives propagated by certain media and political entities regarding military interventions.

• Strategic Clarity is Essential: Clear objectives and achievable end goals are necessary to justify and sustain military engagements, preventing protracted and costly conflicts.

• Political Rhetoric vs. Reality: The use of divisive rhetoric to garner support for military actions can be misleading and detrimental to democratic discourse.

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This episode serves as a critical examination of the current geopolitical tensions in the Middle East, urging listeners to approach calls for military intervention with caution, informed analysis, and a commitment to preserving American lives and values.

Transcript

[Jack Posobiec]

I want to take a second to remind you to sign up for the POSO Daily Brief. It is completely free. It'll be one email that's sent to you every day. You can stop the endless scrolling trying to find out what's going on in your world. We will have this delivered directly to you totally for free. Go to humanevents.com poso Sign up today. It's called the POSO Daily Brief. Read what I read for show prep. You will not regret it. Human Events.com poso Totally free the poso Daily Brief. This is what happens when the Fourth Turning meets fifth generation warfare. A commentator, international social media sensation and former Navy intelligence veteran.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobec.

[Jack Posobiec]

Christ is Jesus. Of the 51 clemency warrants issued during the Biden presidency, over half, 32 in total, were signed with an auto pin, including the preemptive pardons of members of The Biden family, Dr. Anthony Fauci, General Mark Milley, and more that were issued in the final days of the Biden presidency. The federal appeals court is allowing President Donald Trump to maintain control over thousands of members of California's National Guard. The court ruled that Trump lawfully exercised his authority under federal law.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

Democrat led states facing budget crises are moving to cut health care funding for illegal immigrants. The progressive governors of California, Illinois and Minnesota, they are moving to roll back or freeze programs that extended state funded health care to people who entered the country illegally. Massive immigration raid at a pot farm.

[Jack Posobiec]

This may be the largest mass arrest yet since the ICE began its recent raids here. Immigration raids across Southern California today as federal agents target laborers, day laborers and street vendors. The Israel Defense Forces did release this still image here a short time ago that does say fighter jets struck several Iranian missile systems and radar installations in the areas of Tehran and over in Isfahan. They also hit several industrial sites used to manufacture missiles in the Tehran area and those served as a key industrial center for the Iranian Ministry of Defense. Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition Human Events Daily. We are here live in Washington D C. Today is June 20, 2025. Anno Dominique folks, the neocons are in panic mode, absolute panic mode breaking out across all of Washington D.C. as the warmongers, the Centcom Blob toadies and all the rest are hearing. And the reality is settling in that they may not be getting the big war that they wanted. They may not be getting the big war that they were hoping would fill their coffers because the minute they saw those arrows go up on those maps. The minute they saw jets and fighters streaking across the Middle east, they said they could hear the sound of the cash registers Kaching, Kaching. And the warmongers heard all of it. And now we're going to get into this today. We warned that this is becoming a war of air attrition because you can't escape the math, ladies and gentlemen. You can't escape the math. The Iron Dome was not designed for sustained high intensity military conflict. It was designed for small scale attacks from Hamas. And so with what Iran is doing requires a lot of money and a lot of ammunition in terms of these interceptor missiles that unfortunately, Israel is running out of. And also, by the way, America with its Thaad interceptors, also doesn't have an infinite supply of. And so what are we seeing now? We are seeing attacks from Iran landing in Israel. We're playing some of the B roll of it now where as this war continues, and it is a war, we're not mincing words. As this war continues, the ability of the Iron Dome to intercept everything that's thrown at them gets lower and lower. And look, folks, I've been to Israel multiple times. I've never been. I've never tried to hide that or anything. I don't want to see this. I don't want to see this at all. And that's why I put my faith and my trust in President Trump that President Trump is going to see the way to end this thing. We're going to get into as well with Lt. Col. Tony Schaefer and later former Trump official Caroline Sunshine, who's coming on today about real questions as to whether or not this bunker buster strike is enough to be able to take out the Fordo nuclear enrichment facility, this uranium enrichment, because in fact, it might take multiple stripes and even then they don't know if the GBU 57 will be able to to take out the facility and the enriched uranium. It might be that all this strike does is start another Middle east war and a quagmire for America and American troops to get sucked in. We'll be right back. Human events daily. Marcus, voice what America first truly means. Welcome to the second American Revolution. All right, Jeff Kazobik, Here we are back live human events daily. We're overlooking the White House here and go and take a look. Beautiful day here in Washington D.C. take a look, by the way, at those incredible flag polls, the Trump flags that have been put up bracketing the White House. I love seeing them up there. They're absolutely beautiful. And of course, Trump figured this out, right? It's like how could nobody else figure out that if you put up a couple of flags in front of the White House? It's astounding. It's really astounding. What were these other presidents even doing, folks? RFK Jr. Is known for his sharp mind and relentless energy. Remember the viral video of him using methylene blue to stay focused, energized and mentally resilient? Well, now you can experience those same benefits with recharge from the wellness company. This doctor formulated nutraceutical delivers a never before seen combo of methylene blue, NAD and pqq, creating a unique formula designed to optimize mitochondrial function, improve energy and enhance mental clarity. Methylene blue crosses the blood brain barrier to enhance memory, focus and executive function by increasing ATP production, the true fuel of our cells. It also works as a potent antioxidant and anti inflammatory, helping protect against aging and cellular damage. If you're looking for a real mental and physical edge, recharge delivers. Get 10% off plus free shipping at TWC Health. Slash POSO and use promo code POSO. Feel the difference. Think clearer. Recharge. Folks, I want to bring on now Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer. By the way, Tony, it was really nice to see you there at the, at the army birthday parade. I hope you come to the Navy one in October too, man.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

Yeah, look, I hate to say we're competitors in this area, but we are because I had to host the live coverage of another network. Just saying. But hey, we all get along behind the scenes, right? It's great.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, it was a great parade. I had a great time, kids. Had a great time. Terran, Kroll, Schaefer. You know, here we are embarking on yet another proxy war. We're on the cusp of one. Haven't finished the previous proxy war against Russia, and yet we hear the same cheerleaders and same voices. Yet another proxy war on this. Now I want to drill down here because I think we've seen the signals now from the White House that President Trump isn't interested in this regime change war, but he is solely focused on ending the Iranian nuclear program. And the biggest thing, and it's not really a covert operation at this point is this question about a strike on the Fordo uranium enrichment site, which is deep within these mountains south of Tehran. And the media tells me everywhere I look in the media, left wing media, right wing media, it seems it's just one bunker buster is all it's going to take. Just use that Bunker buster, you'll take it out, It'll be perfect. It'll be the greatest strike in the history of strikes. And I'm looking at this, thinking of it as, as an intel officer said, wait a minute. I've put together strike packages and talk to the targeteers. I've never heard of anyone say that there's a perfect strike before. Lieutenant Cole Schaefer, is this true? That this, you know, you can just press one button and get rid of Iran's uranium enrichment site? Or potentially, is there some magical thinking going on here?

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

It's magical thinking, Jack. I mean, you and I both. You did targeting packages. I had inputs to targeting packages. I've been on, I've been a planner, military planner, where we have to look at the range of things regarding a campaign. Everything from kinetic strikes to special operations force options. And this is the deal regarding corridor. You would have to have a strike package of 10 B2 Spirit bombers coming in one after the other within about three minutes, dropping the ordinance. So these are penetrators. But, Jack, to get to the level we're talking, you're going to have to have 10, count them, 10 of those penetrators get deep enough to have an effect. That's how deep this thing is. And then, oh, by the way, what happens if we have to go in and verify we did the job we. We said we did. Oh, by the way, what happens to the radiation that comes spewing out once you penetrate the facility? So, Tony, General Tony Zinni, the commander of Central Command, one of my friends and mentors, told me that Bill Clinton back, this is back in the 90s, Bill Clinton would ask him, hey, General Zinni, can you do X? Can you defeat X? And Zinni would say, yeah, I can do that. But then what? So I think, Jack, as much as we can talk about ordinance, we can talk about effects, nobody can actually define what our end state is or what would happen if we do this. Then what seems to be the piece that everybody is missing? And I think President Trump has got it. That's why he's taken a deep breath and thinking about this before we act.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, look, and you've got MIT professors that are coming out now, and I've seen some of the BDA assessed battle damage assessments at these bunker busters. And, and I hear them, and they'll go up, these cheerleaders, these neocons will say, well, you just, you just fly one plane over and you drop one bomb and then the next plane flies over and it's going to drop another bomb and it'll go in the same hole and that bomb will be able to get deeper behind the first one. I said, what, what did you just say? I mean, they said the gbu, it's, it's not precision guided munition, all right, it has some guidance. But these things are bombs, they are not missiles. They are not designed for that sort of thing. Plus, by the way, this Fordo site, and we've been going through some of the information on it that it, it does have the ability for blast deflection. Tony, walk us through the theory of blast deflection. It's this obviously most most famously used on tanks, but they use the exact same type of theory here on this bunker.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

So basically 90 degree angles defeat that. So and sloped armor, the same thing. You have an angle where something hits, it goes off. So within the context of deep underground, you have things that will defer a blast up, defer a blast down, or curve a blast, because once you hit it, that blast has to go somewhere. So what I do know for a fact is that over the past 30 years the Iranians have watched what we've done from the first Gulf War until now regarding our ordnance. So they have planned, Jack, with an understanding of what we can do. They watch the first Gulf War, the second Gulf War, they watch us take out Saddam Hussein and others hardened facilities. They have a general understanding of what we can do, Jack. They designed this facility around the known capabilities. So again, the penetrators, they are a good weapon to go after a certain amount of depth. But once you get to that depth, they have now planned to have certain diffuse. That's why I'm saying this. One or two bombs. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to have at least 10 to have some effect. And even with 10, I'm skeptical because of the very thing we're talking about, deflection technology, the design. You can design these things so that when you're that deep, that blast will go different directions away from the facility. And then again say we're successful. What happens to the radiation? What happens to the uranium? What happens we're trying to get at? There are other better options that I can't get into necessarily here right now that we would be able to use against a deep underground facility does not require this level of destruction or potential outcome where you have radiation coming and leaking into the world. But that's not being talked about right now.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, it's not. And, and ultimately the only way to really be able to verify this. Plus, by the way, you know, just, just basic common sense is would it be possible for the Iranians to move this uranium within the two week period or potentially have moved it even prior to this? Obviously creates a significant amount of challenges that you're not really going to be. And then, by the way, Tony, and we've got about a minute till the break here, but this is what you and I always talk about is this is why you can't sacrifice human intelligence. This is why you need human intelligence. This is why you need people on the ground to be able to know this type of intel before you commit to military operations. You're not going to get it with sigint and you're definitely not going to get it with just a satellite. You need to have people that are actually in there know what's on the ground. So whether that's Israeli, whether that's American, the questions surrounding this thing, I think are a lot deeper, you know, pun intended, than, than most of the media is letting on.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. Oh. To that point, Jack, I've worked other operations against other nuclear nations where we've had inside information. And that information helped us make, I would argue, very effective decisions regarding the nuclear program. But, Jack, we had to have people on the inside of it. That is hard to do if you keep blowing up scientists. Just saying.

[Jack Posobiec]

I. That's an interesting question, Tony. You know, is it possible that scientists could be turned and used as, as assets for your human intelligence program? I can't imagine anyone in the world who would think of doing such a thing as that. Human Events Daily will be right back here on Real America's VO today. You know, they talk about influencers. These are influencers and they're friends of mine.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

Jack.

[Jack Posobiec]

Where's Jack?

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

He's got a great job.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, folks. Jack. So we are back here. Human Events Daily, Real America's voice, Washington, D.C. we're on with Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer. We're talking intel, we're talking bunker busters, we're talking talking slanted armor. We're talking about the magical thinking that's going on on cable news and particularly corporate media telling us that. Hold on. No, we can just. We could just have this march to war and we can blow up this nuclear site and everything's going to be hunky dory. It's going to go great. By the way, we'll be greeted as liberators once we get some boots on the ground. And you've heard Lindsey Graham and James Langford and Thom Tillis are out there calling for regime change and said they want to go further, but then they're also telling us that America needs to get involved. When I thought, I'm sorry, I was told America didn't need to get involved last week. We take care of this on our own. So. So when it comes down to it, Tony, look, you served. You've been there. Does it make sense for this rush to war right now with the high pressure sales tactics and the upselling of regime change to President Trump without any national debate whatsoever or even any general understanding of the facts on the ground before we rush into one of these things?

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

No, the, the optimism and magical thinking of the neocons, and that's both left and right. I mean, they're in both parties is insane. Remember going back to the Civil War, the Battle of Manassas? Oh, that'll. Everything will be done by next month. You know, next thing you know, 1861 turns into 1864. Same with World War I. World War II was the only war I know of where everything was compact. We, we actually knew what we were doing. We set up a number of objectives and got it done. Every other war has been protracted and, and without a clear end in sight. North Korea is still going on to this day. We have the demilitarized zone and armistice. Vietnam went on forever. Afghanistan went on forever. Jack, we heard the same thing in 2003 regarding Saddam Hussein. We'll be welcome with liberators. We will be. Women and children will be throwing flowers at our feet.

[Caroline Sunshine]

How long?

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

We're still not resolved with that. So anytime I hear optimism for those who have never served, and I'm sorry, Lindsey Graham is not really served. He was a jag, a, a lawyer in uniform. I don't think his services worth the paper. It is regarding his being an Air Force guy. I think anytime you put politicians in charge of strategic thinking, you get a completely inappropriate and unrealistic perspective on what could become if we use military force.

[Jack Posobiec]

And Tony, these people, they don't, they never even heard about order of battle. They don't even, they don't even know what a basic order of battle analysis is. And so when I'm sitting there saying order, battle, or asking basic questions about what this fight's going to look like, people are saying, oh, what are you talking about? That. So before. Because that's how you have the fight. Okay, what kind of interceptor missiles do you have? How many interceptor missiles do you have, by the way? We've got a box up lower corner. President Trump about to be about to leave from the White House, about to depart. And now, of course, even the media is starting to admit they say, wait a minute, Israel doesn't have infinite missiles. Oh, wait. And America doesn't have infinite missiles as well. President Trump now is departing. We can see him. We can see him boarding Air Force One right there on screen. So look, look, Tony, President Trump, he's got a lot on his shoulders right now, and he's got big shoulders and he can handle it. And I think that these are some of the conversations and questions that he's asking himself.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

We need to let him do his job. I see people who you and I know and admire saying, oh, my God, he's broken his promise. He's not broken his promise yet. He's doing his job. We have yet to use military force against Iran. People may be uncomfortable with how close we are to using it, which I am, too. But, Jack, I'll end by saying we need to have leaders who always begin with the end in mind. What are you trying to achieve? And do we have the adequate resources and political will to do it? Because too often we get into the middle of things, Afghanistan, Iraq, with no clear understanding of what we're trying to achieve. We get throw people in there, they give up blood and treasure in their lives for purposes that are completely obtuse and unclear. So if we do this, we have to have the debate, like you mentioned, and an understanding that we're going to lose men and women in combat and. But we have to have an appropriate and effective and achievable end goal that's worth sacrificing for. I think President Trump understands it.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, I think we understand that as well, that when it comes to these issues, the issues of war and peace, the understanding. And of course, nobody wants a nuclear war. No one. Absolutely not. And so the goal here, of course, has always been how to best secure the American people. Tony, where can people go to follow you for all the breaking updates on this and everything you're putting out?

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

So always check me on X. He's spooky. And then project sentinel.com. jack, always enjoy our conversation. Thanks for having me.

[Jack Posobiec]

Thanks so much. Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer. Folks, this operation, like any military operation, a bit more complicated than anyone thinks. We need to stop the magical thinking and actually talk to the experts who have been there in the field. Be right back. And Jack. Where's Jack? Where's Jack? Where is he? Jack, I want to see you. Great job, Jack. Thank you. What a job you do you know, we have an incredible thing. We're always talking about the fake news.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

And the bad, but we have guys.

[Jack Posobiec]

And these are the guys should be getting bullishers. All right, folks, Jackson back live Real America's voice, Washington, D.C. and folks, listen up because if you are still drinking that corporate watered down nonsense that passes for coffee, time for serious wake up call. Blackout coffee isn't just coffee statement. A declaration that you're done with weak beans and weak values. We're talking high octane, American roasted fuel for those who grind harder, stand taller, and never back down. Look, people are asking, how paso? Look, how do you keep up with all the news and World War Three breaking out and all the rest of it? I said, look, it's blackout coffee. It's blackout coffee all day and potentially all night. Because blackout coffee isn't playing games. They're cranking out more bags than ever, shipping faster than ever, and keeping you locked in with coffee that actually fires you up. Whether you're chasing big goals, crushing the daily grind, or just refusing to drink coffee made by people who hate you, blackout coffee has your back. So stop settling. Go to blackout coffee.com poso and use promo code posto for 20% off your first order. Drink like a patriot. Drink blackout. That's blackout coffee.com poso. Stop waiting and wake up. Very excited to welcome back on the program the former deputy director of communications for the Trump Campaign Campaign 2024. Last year we had her on the program so many times. She joins us yet again. It's Caroline Sunshine. Caroline, how are you?

[Caroline Sunshine]

Jack, how are you? I'm great. I'm just, you know, I'm trying to enjoy my summer and make sure that the US doesn't get involved in another prolonged war in the Middle east, make sure we can get all those illegal immigrants out of our country. But other than that, I'm great. How are.

[Jack Posobiec]

You? All right, guys, I'm having a. A little issue with Caroline's audio for some reason, I can't hear her. Even though. Even though we were def. We were definitely just checking this out two seconds ago. And I could hear her. But Caroline was on and I saw giving an interview yesterday and just a phenomenal job. Oh, you guys are telling me it's up now. Sorry about that. Caroline either.

[Caroline Sunshine]

Hey, are you still there?

[Jack Posobiec]

Hey, there it is. Now it's perfect. The technology overlords have. Have smiled upon us for once. You gave an incredible interview yesterday speaking out about some of this and what I'm, I'm dubbing magical thinking. I Think there's this magical thinking that's going on in Washington, D.C. and corporate news and in a lot of places right now regarding the Israel, Iran conflict. And look, you know, people know on this show we have, we have a lot of care for the Holy Land and we're generally very anti war when it comes down to it. We don't like war. We know these things spiral out of control. And yet there are people who are just straight up attacking you or, you know, not you personally, but attacking me and, and others. Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk, others for, for simply raising a few skeptical points regarding this thing. And I just thought it was incredible that you, with the platform that you have, were willing to also voice some of the concerns. And really from the perspective of veterans and units that had lost members and lost brothers and lost family members in the wars that we just finished fighting in the Middle East.

[Caroline Sunshine]

Well, thank you. And all I was trying to do was speak up the way that the American people spoke up in this last election. You know, 60% of Americans don't want to see more US military involvement in the Middle East. That poll just came out yesterday. And unfortunately, 60% of voices in media aren't reflecting that. And, you know, I'm looking at people like Mark Levin and Mark Levin is loud. Doesn't mean that he's right. Actually, you know what? I would love to debate Mark Levin. I would love to debate him. Mark, if anybody is watching, Mark, I would love to debate you. Jack, maybe you can host us on your show. We could do it on Mark's show anytime, any place, anywhere. But just because Mark is being. And I mean it, I mean it. When it comes to something as serious as the US Getting involved again in Middle east, we should have that debate. And just because somebody is loud doesn't mean that they're right. I don't know much about Mark Levin. I know that he has said that he wouldn't vote for President Trump. I know that he said that. Direct, quote, I'm not accountable for anything, any of the dumb things President Trump and his supporters say. I know that Mark Levin is out there calling millions of Americans unpatriotic for not wanting to get involved in the Middle east again. So he's calling 60% of Americans unpatriotic. I think that's really dangerous rhetoric. I think that is the same rhetoric that was used during the Iraq war to try and manipulate the American public into buying the lie that Iraq had WMDs. You were told that, you know, unless you buy the lie that Iraq has WMDs. You're not patriotic. You know, the Dixie Chicks were canceled for that, for speaking out against President Bush because they didn't wanna go to war. They were canceled by the right, by the way. I don't think millions of Americans are unpatriotic for not wanting to go to war in the Middle east again. And it's leftist rhetoric that he's using, too. That is the same tactic that the left uses. If you don't want millions of unvetted illegal immigrants pouring into your country, you're unpatriotic because America is a nation of immigrants, and we're supposed to welcome the cold, the tired, the poor, the huddled. And if you don't like that, you don't like illegal immigrants coming to your country, you're unpatriotic. So I just, I don't agree with calling millions of Americans, 60% of Americans unpatriotic for not wanting that. I don't think Mark Levin speaks for Americans under 30. I mean, President Trump always talks about how proud he is that he won the youth vote by 30 points, that he won young men overwhelmingly. And it's not. If the American military is to get involved again in the Middle East, God forbid, it's not going to be Mark Levin that gets sent to the front lines. I mean, if we were to drop Mark Levin in Iran, that would be quite the bunker buster because he's a large guy. But it wouldn't be Mark Levin being sent to the front lines of Iran. It would be young men under 30. And I don't feel like the voices in media are painting an accurate picture of what war would look like. We're not having that conversation. We didn't have that conversation leading up to the Iraq war. We're not having that conversation now. But something I would point out is back in 2003, during the Iraq War, women couldn't serve in combat. They can now. And I don't think the American public is ready to see images of women that look like me being blown up by IEDs. And, you know, I don't think that's a good thing for President Trump's legacy either. President Trump has done so much to make sure that men can't participate in women's sports. Why are we now going to go burn all of that by letting women get blown up in combat in the Middle East? That's not something that I stand for. That's not something that I think would be good for his legacy. I was really grateful that the President said he's going to pursue this Two week time period. And what I'm concerned about is voices in the American media trying to undermine the President's decision to pursue peace and to pursue negotiation over the course of these two weeks or sooner. But my offer stands. Mark Levin, Katie Pavlich, any of these voices happy to debate. Anytime, anywhere. If you want to do two on one, happy to do it, but it's an important debate and we should have it.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, Caroline, I mean, I've seen the same tenor of their comments out there and I've seen the way that, the way that they're talking, as if you are some kind of traitor to the United States for raising basic questions. Or, you know me, I put on my, my military officer hat and I say, well, okay, well, how many missiles do you have and how many interceptors? How does the Iron Dome actually work and can they sustain something like this, These bunker busters? You get this magical thinking. I would say, oh, it's, you know, it's one, one hit and it's going to be done. They're not going to have nukes anymore. I said, really? Are you sure about that? Have you ever put together a targeting package? Have you ever run strikes like this? Have you ever participated in one of these operations? Because guess what? That's exactly what amateurs say. People have never actually looked at one of these problem sets or done anything like this before because you never know what the strike is going to look like until afterwards, especially a massive and completely novel strike like the one you're talking about here. And they say, oh, we're going to have one bunker buster and then the second one's going to come in and it's going to dig. It's going to burrow down deeper. After the first, the first bunker buster, I'm like, what do you guys, like? This is, this is, this is like, like Star wars and it's Luke Skywalker and, you know, Obi Wan Kenobi, turn off. Your targeting is going up against the Death Star with the heat vest. Guys, you're watching a little bit too much Marvel. Like, can we just, can we have a serious conversation about military matters here? Maybe if we talk some people who have been in the military and actually look at this. And by the way, that's nothing against the training. That's nothing against the patriotism and the grit and valor of the soldiery and the airmen and pilots. It's just reality, okay? We're just talking about reality. We're talking about math, we're talking about physics. And the physics aren't necessarily on Our side and a lot of the people that have been looking at this problem set, particularly with this Fordo facility, say, wait a minute, the physics on hitting this thing are going to be extremely hard. It's very complicated. It's going to take potentially. And Lieutenant Colonel Schaefer was just on here saying you might need 10 runs on this thing. So 10 B2 bombers, or you know, five if you use in tandem with the, with a dual drop base to be able to knock this thing out. And that's 10, you know, five to 10 hits. Who knows what could happen, right? And it's, and it just comes down that, who knows? Are Americans. I'm just going to say it. Are Americans prepared, even in this limited strike, prepared to see what would happen if Iran were able to shoot down a B2 bomber? And that the amount of video that you would see on some of that or God forbid, a malfunction or something like that. And I'm not saying it's likely. I'm just saying you have to consider these things when you're conducting military planning for an operation over Indian country or an operation over hostile territory like that. All of these things need. When, when we were I, I served in, I was, I was, I was stationed in Guam a couple of times. And when they ran the invasions into Guam, they were people who didn't track the, the, the depth of the mud and the depth of the water. And there were times that during the invasion of Guam that Marines would be jumping out and these kids, 18, 19 years old, we jumping out, fully loaded up, fully kitted down, packages and, and grenades and weapons and ammo. And they were so heavy that they sank right into the sand. They sank right in the sand. They couldn't get out.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

Right.

[Jack Posobiec]

We saw this, you saw it in D day as well. And I'm sorry, but before we get into any of those conversations, we better darn well know what we're talking about before any single American gets sent into something like that. One minute until the break, Caroline Sunshine.

[Caroline Sunshine]

Absolutely. And you know, while we're at it, let's talk about other conversations that we're not having. Supposedly Iran is five minutes away from a nuclear weapon. I have a feeling that is becoming the same. Iraq has WMD 2.0 lie. Because there is no current US intelligence assessment that says that. But let's, let's play it out. Let's have the conversation that. I haven't seen anyone. Have you and me, Jack, what if Iran does have a nuclear weapon? Okay, so what? Let's play that out. I don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon. But we haven't. Let's, let's just like.

[Jack Posobiec]

And the answer would be, of course, what if they were to use it in a retaliation against Israel, against one of our forces or another? I mean, that's, that's the real danger here. And I don't hear anybody talking about this. We're coming up on, on a break and we're asking a lot of questions that nobody seems to want to take time to actually consider. Well, we are here because this is real America's voice. Right back.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

Jack is a great guy.

[Jack Posobiec]

He's rich. That fantastic book, everybody's talking about it.

[Caroline Sunshine]

Go get it.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

And he's been my friend right from.

[Jack Posobiec]

The beginning of this whole beautiful event.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

And we're going to turn it around and make our country great again.

[Jack Posobiec]

Amen. At Turning Point usa, what we are doing every single day is we are dedicating ourselves and our staff and our students and our activists for a full revival of America. Get ready to launch into the future of freedom at the largest student event in the nation.

[Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer]

SAS is back.

[Jack Posobiec]

Join thousands of fellow students ready to pioneer a bold new era for America at our Student Action Sunday. And we're bringing in the biggest voices in the movement featuring Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon, Dr. Ben Carson, Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, Brandon Tatum, James O' Keefe, Benny Johnson, Jack Posobic and more from July 11th through 13th in Tampa, Florida. Register now at SAS2025.com Jackson Back Live Human Events Daily. Folks, we do have breaking news that an earthquake apparently has taken or has occurred just occurred a few kilometers west of Tehran, of course, capital of Iran. The earthquake apparently occurred at very deep depth of and I'm seeing various numbers on this potentially 35km underground or even 13km underground. This is far too deep to be the facility that and is nowhere near where Fordo is. And so we're, we're going to keep an eye on this to obviously it is a very, very mountainous region. It's a region where there's been a lot of tectonic activity. Of course, everyone on edge because of course, we know everything that's going on here over the last week. We're on with Caroline Sunshine, the former deputy director of the Trump campaign's communications. And Caroline, this conversation that you're having that we're having is I think important because there are huge costs associated with this. And what I've really been trying to drive home today as well is to say, look, you know the people of Tehran. And people need to see what Tehran actually looks like. And no one has taken a look at this. No one knows how they're going to respond if the United States bombs them. And there's this, you know, refrain that, oh, they're just going to greet us as liberators and it's going to be this wonderful thing. I don't know if that's totally confirmed, and it certainly wasn't in Iraq or Afghanistan. And we could easily find ourselves sucked into a very, very bad situation.

[Caroline Sunshine]

I think that there's no reason for the United States to engage in any kind of regime or regime change in the region. It's, it's really unpopular with the American people. I cannot begin to describe how unpopular. If you did want to undertake a popular regime change, honestly, the most popular one would probably be against Prime Minister Netanyahu himself. If you stand with Israel, it's hard to stand with his government. He's got a 30% popularity rating. He almost lost control of his government a day before those strikes. He has been wrong about intelligence assessments for a long time. There's sufficient evidence that he didn't even listen to intelligence assessments leading up to the October 7th attack. This is a guy that said that taking out Saddam Hussein would be a prosperous thing for the region of the Middle East. But I also want to go back to the fact that people are saying, all right, well, President Trump has been consistent for 10 years saying that Iran can't have a nuclear weapon. That's true. He has said that for a decade. He's been very consistent in that position. But that's very clever framing as well, because what he hasn't said is Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. And we're willing to use the United States military and intervention to make sure that doesn't happen, that's not what he has said. If anything, his track record shows he has a bias towards negotiation. He has a bias towards negotiating for peace. But let's play this out right now. There are people screaming on TV saying that Iran is five minutes away from a nuclear weapon. They've been saying that for 30 years. Netanyahu himself has been saying that for 30 years. The current US intelligence assessment does not assess that Iran is five minutes away from a nuclear weapon. In fact, I don't think President Trump himself would have agreed to this recent two week timeline if Iran was truly five minutes away from a nuclear weapon. So just because people who were speechwriters in the Bush administration and architects of the Iraq war are going on television Saying Iran is five minutes away from a nuclear weapon doesn't make it true. And that's, that's important because this is a country that has a history of selling convenient lies to its people to get it involved in conflicts that have been very costly. Of course, I'm talking about. And we had to go now.

[Jack Posobiec]

Right, Right. And I have some background on this that I got from a source who was in the closed door meeting with Ratcliffe and the others. And people have made a lot of talk about his one yard analogy. And people are telling me that, wait a minute, he was not talking about any kind of new intel or new assessment that Trump, Ratcliffe, JD And Tulsi are actually on the same page. And in fact, he was making a football reference about something else. And all of the warhawks are taking it out of context. Caroline, we are out of time for the show. I do hope you come back. What is your social media where people can follow you?

[Caroline Sunshine]

Thank you, Jack. And thank you for using your voice and for your show. You guys can follow me at CSUNshine, @seasunshine.

[Jack Posobiec]

It's as simple as that, folks. And so you've got Caroline Sunshine now who's speaking out with, and by the way, not speaking out, but speaking out against the warmongers and the war hawks and the neocons for this rush to judgment. President Trump, who's up in Bedminster now on his way. President Trump is the one who will make the judgment. And President Trump has always said peace is the prize. Ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission. Lay ashore.