MAGA vs The Theater Kids: Do You Want Drama or Do You Want Victory?

Summary

Episode Summary: MAGA vs The Theater Kids: Do You Want Drama or Do You Want Victory?

Podcast: Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec
Date: November 18, 2025
Guests: Jason Whitlock (The Blaze), Evita Duffy

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Main Theme

This episode tackles the current crossroads within the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement: Should the focus be on substantive victories or get lost in performative drama and infighting? Host Jack Posobiec discusses the distinction between those who want real-world results and the so-called “theater kids” who thrive on online drama and purity spirals, especially on the right. The conversation spans the dangers of tribalism vs. unifying over shared values, the ongoing fallout of the Jeffrey Epstein files, and the impact of social media on political division.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: News and Current Events

• Foreign Policy: President Trump is meeting with Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince, aiming for significant U.S. investment—a sign of “foreign policy wins.”
• Domestic Focus: Posobiec notes the MAGA base cares more about issues like inflation (“the turkey on your Thanksgiving table”) rather than “turkey in the Middle East.”
  • Quote:

    “That's America First. That's how I define America First... If the American people are hurting, if Main Street is hurting, it doesn't matter if Wall Street is doing well.”
    (Jack Posobiec, 06:15)

• Epstein Files: Breaking news about the Congressional vote to release the Jeffrey Epstein files.
  • Quote:

    “People are sick of it. We’re sick of this not coming out. Epstein became emblematic of that system. That’s why you’re seeing this incredible lopsided vote.”
    (Jack Posobiec, 30:28)

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2. MAGA vs. Theater Kids: The Core Debate

• The Central Question:

  • Do you want to WIN or just have drama? Are we fighting for “America First” or performing for online approval?
  • The episode emphasizes the movement needs unity and focus, not endless “drama and purity tests.”

• Historical Context:

  • What if Trump hadn’t run? “It would’ve been Jeb Bush vs. Hillary Clinton—and Hillary would have steamrolled him.” (Jack Posobiec, 05:02)
  • Posobiec urges listeners to avoid fracturing the movement.

• Freedom of Speech & Debate:

  • Criticism is fine, but shutting out voices with “you’re not really MAGA” is against the movement’s principles.
  • Quote:

    “MAG is about freedom of speech. MAG is about people coming together against the establishment.”
    (Jack Posobiec, 06:20)

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3. Jason Whitlock on Censorship, Christianity, and Tribalism

Notable Segment: [09:22–18:29]

• On Censorship in the Movement:

  • Whitlock draws parallels between COVID vaccine mandates (“social distancing”) and calls to “distance” from controversial voices on the right.
  • Satirical tweet (referenced by Posobiec) highlights absurdity.
  • Quote:

    “We’re turning around and doing that to Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and others... because of discomfort with the conversation about what is America First.”
    (Jason Whitlock, 10:33)

• Christianity vs. Tribalism:

  • Whitlock argues for unity based on shared values and faith, not skin color or identity politics.
  • Dangers of both black and white Americans adopting tribal identities; calls for unity under Christian, biblical values.
  • Quote:

    “Tribalism does not work. Shared values does. Shared values based on Jesus Christ, Old and New Testament—that’s what works.”
    (Jason Whitlock, 17:35)

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4. Multiculturalism vs. Shared American Culture

• Posobiec: Multiculturalism, though well-intentioned, fosters division if not anchored in American civic and historical values.

• Whitlock: Not all cultures are equal in their results or values; traditional American/biblical values create social cohesion and order.

  • Quote:

    “All cultures are not created equal. And so when I think of hip hop culture, I don’t want to be around it... multiculturalism allows any and everything into your country.”
    (Jason Whitlock, 20:54)

• Common-Sense Integration:

  • Personal stories about family, community, and respecting shared norms override racial resentment.

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5. Social Media, COVID, and the Rise of Division

Notable Segment: [25:22–26:48]

• The Algorithmic Divide:
  • COVID isolation and digital life exacerbate “tribal” online behavior; less real connection, more manufactured drama.
  • Quote:

    “We’re less connected. We think, hey, we’ve made the world smaller, everybody’s connected by their phone—but not in a real way.”
    (Jason Whitlock, 25:53)

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6. Epstein Files: The Populist Demand for Truth

Timestamps: [31:37–38:07]

• Evita Duffy’s Perspective:
  • The Epstein case is a symbol of elite rot and distrust in institutions.
  • The American people demand truth and transparency; bipartisan establishment wants the scandal to disappear.
  • Quote:

    “Jeffrey Epstein is sort of the symbol of that rot... a symbol of elite rot, institutional rot.”
    (Evita Duffy, 37:02)

  • Concerns about possible redactions fueling more rage and conspiracy.

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7. The Cost of Drama: Infighting vs. Strategy

Timestamps: [41:11–47:35]

• MAGA Movement Warning:

  • Infighting and “drama” weaken chances for victory in upcoming elections; the real enemy is the establishment, not each other.
  • Parallels drawn to historical infighting among Russian anti-communists (“The White Army”) leading to defeat.
  • Quote:

    “If we’re not focused on victory, we are instead promising our own destruction. I think it’s very shortsighted, very stupid.”
    (Evita Duffy, 42:02)

• Trump’s Example:

  • President Trump refuses to disavow allies over minor disagreements.
  • Quote:

    “President Trump said, 'No, I'm not going to do that. I've been on Tucker Carlson's show. He's a good guy. I like him. Whatever, let's move on.' That should be the tone everybody's taking.”
    (Evita Duffy, 43:17)

• Spiritual and Moral Decay:

  • Discussion of the disturbing details and possible spiritual components around recent acts of political violence and the fringe online communities that foster them.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the drama vs. results rift:

  “MAGA wants victory and the theater kids are the ones who want drama.”
  (Jack Posobiec, 04:39)

• On cancel culture on the right:

  “We don’t have to social distance. We don’t have to cancel people. We can beat them with the highest form of truth...”
  (Jason Whitlock, 11:54)

• On tribalism:

  “Unity is based on shared biblical values... Tribalism does not work. Shared values does.”
  (Jason Whitlock, 17:35)

• On the risk of losing sight of the goal:

  “If we stayed online too much, we would tear each other apart.”
  (Jack Posobiec, 26:48)

• On Epstein files symbolizing institutional rot:

  “There seems to be a radical disconnect in the values of the American people and the values of our elite class. And Jeffrey Epstein is sort of the symbol of that rot.”
  (Evita Duffy, 37:02)

• On movement discipline:

  “Family disputes? Absolutely. But you keep it in the family because at the end of the day we are up against billionaires who want us all in prison or dead.”
  (Jack Posobiec, 42:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening news/Trump foreign policy: 00:51–07:26
• MAGA vs. drama monologue: 04:39–07:26
• Whitlock on censorship, tribalism, Christianity: 09:22–18:29
• Multiculturalism, American culture, personal stories: 18:29–25:22
• Tech, social media’s role in division: 25:22–26:48
• Epstein files and populist discontent: 31:37–38:07
• Movement infighting, drama vs. strategy: 41:11–47:35

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Tone & Style

Throughout, the tone is urgent, direct, and occasionally combative—reflecting the style of the MAGA and populist right. The guests speak candidly about difficult topics (race, culture, faith), often using humor or historical analogies, but emphasize unity over division and results over online theatrics.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• The movement must prioritize victory and unity over performative drama and purity spirals.
• Real-world results—like policy wins and resisting establishment rot (e.g., Epstein files)—should take precedence over online squabbles.
• Shared, biblically-rooted values and a unifying sense of American culture are posed as the antidote to tribalism and division.
• The fight for transparency and truth is a central theme, both regarding the Epstein case and institutional rot.
• The path forward requires both discipline internally and moral clarity, especially as the left is described as increasingly ruthless.

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Transcript

[Jack Posobiec]

I want to take a second to remind you to sign up for the Posto Daily Brief. It is completely free. It'll be one email that's sent to you every day. You can stop the endless scrolling trying to find out what's going on in your world. We will have this delivered directly to you totally for free. Go to humanevents.com poso Sign up today. It's called the Poso Daily Brief. Read what I read for show prep. You will not regret it. Human Events.com poso Totally free the Poso Daily Brief. This is what happens when the the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.

[Evita Duffy]

A commentator, international social media sensation and former Navy intelligence veteran.

[Jack Posobiec]

This is Human Events with your host Jack Posobic. Christ is king Tonight.

[News Reporter]

President Trump now saying he is not ruling out putting US Boots on the ground in Venezuela as the largest, most advanced aircraft carrier in the world. The USS Gerald Ford arrives in the Caribbean.

[Matt]

I don't rule out anything. We just have to take care of venezuela.

[News Reporter]

At least 15,000 U.S. forces now deployed in the Caribbean. The U.S. saying it will designate the Cartel de Los Solis, a drug trafficking group it says is run by the illegitimate regime of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. A foreign terrorist organization. An accusation Maduro denies.

[Jack Posobiec]

A terrible first for the world. A Chinese backed AI tool hacked about 30 places, including some financial institutions.

[AI Expert]

China used Anthropic, which is a US Based tool. The only reason we know about this is because it's US Based and Anthropic disclose the fact that its quad model, its large language model had been hacked and used for these nefarious purposes. I met this week with David Sacks. Our eyes are in the White House. I met with a number of AI officials, the CEOs of AI companies in Silicon Valley this past week. This is something where we must lead. We must stay on the cutting edge of innovation. And from a regulatory standpoint, I want to make certain that in Congress we, we're not doing anything to stop the ability of these cutting edge companies from operating here in America.

[Political Analyst]

Big victory for free speech and First Amendment protections. After a court decided one school district's pronoun policy violated students constitutional rights, the federal appeals court ruled a school district in Ohio could not punish students who do not call a transgender student by their preferred pronoun. With the House preparing to vote on the full release of the Epstein files and this morning speaker of the House Mike Johnson says a significant number of Republicans will back it. And how many Republicans do you expect to vote for this?

[Matt]

I think it'll be A large vote.

[Political Analyst]

Talent in the final hours. The president reversing course, telling Republicans to vote yes, insisting he would sign the bill if it reaches his desk.

[Matt]

Sure, I would let, let the Senate look at it, let anybody look at it. But don't talk about it too much because honestly, I don't want to take it away from us.

[Jack Posobiec]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily. We're here live on Real America's voice. Today is November 18, 2025 Anno Domini. Guys, you're looking at a. And if we can, let's, let's put that up. Let's put that up side by side, guys. We're looking at a two shot live shot, I should say, of the entrance to the West Wing there. President Trump wrapping up his meeting with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. A cool trillion in investment in the United States that we're hearing from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. You know, and we see the president putting up these wins, we see the president putting up these W's on the foreign policy front. But it's really the internals, it's really the domestic that so many people are focused on. And so today's episode, I wanted to talk about this thing. It seems like a lot of people online are talking about. And if you're not online that much, you, you may not have seen it, but if you're in the comments, if you're in the comments on the rumble chat or the getter chat or the YouTube chat or Twitter chat. Yeah, that's really me, by the way. When I pop in there, that really is actually me. When I come on, it's this question about do you want drama or do you want victory? Right, Because MAGA wants drama. And the theater kids are the ones said that backwards, didn't I? MAGA wants victory and the theater kids are the ones who want drama. MAGA wants victory and the theater kids are the ones who just want drama. All right. It's really as simple as that. Do you want to win? Where were we 10 years ago? Where are we now? What would things have been like if Kamala Harris had been president, or dare I say Hillary Clinton been president? Because remember, go back 10 years, who was the heir apparent? Who did it look like before Donald Trump got in the race in 2015? Who was it that looked like was going to win? Jeb Bush, you remember him? Jabbers. It looked like Jeb Bush is going.

[Matt]

To get in the race.

[Jack Posobiec]

And so we would have had a contest between Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton. And Hillary would have steamrolled him. She would have absolutely steamrolled Jeb Bush. Everybody knew it. Everybody knew what happened. And she would have been the first female president. And Hillary Clinton would have been in the White House probably for two terms. That was your alternative. If Donald Trump didn't come down the golden escalator in one of the greatest moments in all of American history. So you need to lock in out there now. People want to say, oh, well, Jack, this just constructive criticism. That's fine. That's totally fine. People want to. Course correct. People want to say, you need to focus more on the domestic and not the foreign. I get that. I'm all for it. I'm all for it. What I'm not for is the drama. Not for. For these. These dramatic, performative eruptions and, oh, you're not really maga. Oh, you're not really. And you get these people, by the way, who weren't here early on, who, who then come in and say, oh, you have to say this, this, and this. And then you're maga. And, oh, you can't talk to this person and this person. This person. Or you're not maga. And it's like, yeah, that's. That's not what Mag is about. Maga's about freedom of speech. MAG is about people coming together against the establishment. That's what MAG is about. And that's why Donald Trump did what he did. And that's why he's been as successful as he's had as he's been, and he's had the success that he's had. It's really as simple as that. And I get it. The base of this country, the base of this movement, they care a lot more about the turkey and your Thanksgiving dinner than they do about the turkey in the Middle East. That's America First. That's how I define America First. That's how America first has always been defined. Putting the American people first. Not corporations, not the gdp, not the stock market, not any of that nonsense. It means putting the American people first. First. And if the American people are hurting, if Main street is hurting, it doesn't matter if Wall street is doing well. Remember a little something called the Occupy movement. Remember a little something called the Tea Party, a little something called the 99% versus 1%. That was the birth of populist politics. The populist movement, the populist left turned into Mamdanism. What did the populist right turn into? It turned into maga. Right back, folks. Jack Posobic, Human Events daily.

[Jason Whitlock]

Stand in our way.

[Matt]

And our golden age has just begun.

[Evita Duffy]

This is Human Events with Jack Pos.

[Jack Posobiec]

Now it's time for everyone to understand what America first truly means. Welcome to the second American Revolution. All right, Jack. So we're back live Human events Daily. We got President Trump, the live shot there, the portico to the west wing of the White House, where he's about to be finishing his meeting with the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia. So we'll take that live. When they all start to walk out, put it down in the little box right there, folks. Somewhere along the way, we traded real flavor for seed oils and that processed junk. It's time to take back our kitchens. And our newest partner here at Human Events Daily is here to help. They're called Steak n Shake. Where they're introducing now, steak and Shake's 100% pure beef tallow. No chemicals, no fillers, just premium beef fat rendered the old fashioned way the way that my Polish grandparents cooked. Right now they have two options to choose from both@steak and shake.com. that's steak and Shake with the letter N. There's their grass fed beef tallow. That's only $9 a jar. And there's also their American Wagyu beef tallow, just $12 a jar with a rich, buttery taste. Or bundle them both together for 19.99 this Christmas and revolutionize your cooking. It makes a great gift. You can fry the crispiest fries, sear the perfect steak. Roast vegetables bursting with real flavor. This is how food should taste. So bring tradition and taste back to your table with Steak and Shake Beef tallow. Order [e-mail] that's steakandshake.com with the letter and. All right. Very excited to have on the show. First time, I believe that we've had him on Human Events Daily, although I've appeared on his show a number of times. Ladies and gentlemen, Jason Whitlock from Fearless over at the Blaze joins us now. What's up, Jason?

[Jason Whitlock]

Jack, thank you for having me. I thought I'd been on Human Events. Maybe I.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, were you on Maybe. Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed then and you were here and I thought you were. I was on there.

[Jason Whitlock]

That might be it.

[Jack Posobiec]

But, Jason, it's, it's either way, we got to do. Do it more. That's. That's the. I think that's the upshot of it. But. So we were doing this, this conversation. I was on your show earlier and, and I kind of did a little monologue when we started off, and I said, I think there's some people. And I saw this. Actually, I was coming off of your. Your tweet. You had a tweet about, you know, taking the vaccine and, and saying that, that Jesus Christ is not enough. You must take the censorship vax. We now have boosters that will keep you a safe social distance from Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, me, Alex Jones, Dave Smith, Darryl Cooper, and many others to be named later. Keep it locked on my feed for updates on new boosters or masking policies. And it was really funny. And people don't know. Jason's obviously being, being sarcastic there. It does feel like there's this push for censorship now going on on, you know, called the online right, the maga right, whatever you want to call it, the conservative movement. What are your thoughts on. On that? Why did you post that tweet?

[Jason Whitlock]

Well, because I wanted to point out that what we're seeing as it relates to Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens and several others, and I'll even throw Nick Fuentes in there, is very similar to what we saw during 2020 as it relates to Covid, that the left had this insanity that everybody had to take this vaccine, this medical trial vaccine, and that if you didn't do it, you were the worst person on the planet. And we all ridiculed and laughed at them and said that that's crazy. And now we're turning around and doing that to Tucker Carlson and to Candace Owens and to other people that were respected and fighters and soldiers in this culture war. And now because of this lack of comfort with the conversation about what is America first, how much support should we provide foreign countries, particularly Israel, how many wars are we going to get into in the Middle East? Now we want everybody to social distance from Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens. And I'm just not for that. I don't believe in that. I believe we serve Jesus Christ. He's given us his word in written form that guides us and tells us how to operate in this world. We don't have to social distance. We don't have to cancel people. We can beat them with a higher form or the highest form of truth, and that is by proclaiming Christ is king. That is by pushing this culture back to a more biblical worldview. That's the solution. Not canceling people, not beat them with the ideas. Our ideas are superior because they're based in biblical truth.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, I love this idea because the idea that you're saying don't call for censorship and so much Lately, I try to think back, you know, what would Charlie do? What would Charlie say in a given situation? And Charlie wasn't a censorship guy, and people want to say, oh, what about what? He just said this about Israel. He said, no, no, no. But, guys, at the end of the day, I go back to, how did Charlie deal with this? I know I said this on your show, but I'm gonna say it again for. For the benefit of the audience here, is that when the Israel question first came up and it was bubbling up and it was getting bigger, and then it, you know, really, when the war with Gaza spilled out and it became such a huge issue, is on the news every night. It's all over social media, TikTok, et cetera, Charlie said, you know what? I don't want to hide this conversation. I don't want to squelch this conversation. In fact, I want to hash it out. And at one point, not to get too into it, but, you know, I played a very small role in setting up some of the debate at the Student Action Summit, the last one that Charlie would attend, the last Turning Point event he would attend down at. At Tampa between Dave Smith and Josh Hammer, which was mediated by Charlie himself on the question of Israel. I thought they had a great debate. I thought they went really well. I thought both sides made really good points. I agree. You know, I think largely that I think we need to start winding down our, you know, our presence in the Middle east and certainly our support for these various wars. I think that's what America first is all about when it comes down to it. But that's what Charlie did. He didn't stand for censorship. And, Jason, I love how you would do this because you always talk about the difference between tribalism versus being a Christian, and I think that's something you were kind of getting at.

[Jason Whitlock]

What.

[Jack Posobiec]

What does that mean? Unpack that for us.

[Jason Whitlock]

Well, I'm. It's the same thing Tucker's been talking about, quite honestly. It's just like, hey, we all Christians. We should not be tribal. We should not be leaning into skin color. We should not be leaning into.

[AI Expert]

Many.

[Jason Whitlock]

Things that are dividing us. And we should be coming together under our belief that we serve Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior and that our identity comes from our religious faith, our country of origin, and our language. And if we lean into those things, we have. There's plenty. There's everything for us to come together if we're going to lean into identity politics. And, hey, I'm originally from this country, although I live Here my skin color is this. And so I must be loyal to everybody that shares my skin color. I want loyalty based on shared values. My values are biblical. My values are Christian. I want loyalty and, and coalition based on that. If we lean into tribalism and, and this is what I would. I've said, I think over Twitter, and I think I've said it on my show countless times to the Nick Fuentes that's promoting a tribalism that I'm like, why would you do that? Black people in America have become very tribal. It's not going well. It's not working out at all. Why would you repeat and think that, okay, if white people become tribal like black people, it's going to go better for us as white people. No, it won't. We have to come together over shared values. And we have to remove this color stipulation and again, take our identity in our religious faith and our country of origin and our language. That should bring us together. And so it's very hard to get black people on board with that. But we should all be looking at. And I'm an American black man. For those of you that are not watching, or I mean, not yet not watching, can only hear my voice. I'm an American black man. I'm in disagreement with this 90% of black America that is very tribal and is not their kids, our kids, black people's kids, are failing. They're not achieving academically. We're not progressing economically. We don't have any unity. There is no unity based on skin color. Unity is based on shared values, and they're best based on shared biblical values. And so this tribalism, that many, that quite frankly, Jewish people lean into tribalism. And so for people that are critical of black people for their victimhood, Jewish people for their victimhood and tribalism, why would we want to adopt the tactics that lead to a lot of division, in my view, and don't push America forward in the proper way? I just, I just things that I'm critical of, I don't try to repeat. I don't try to mimic and adopt, and I just don't. Tribalism does not work. Shared values does. And, you know, quite frankly, shared values based on Jesus Christ, old and New Testament, that's what works. And we all need to be leaning into that rather than tribalism.

[Jack Posobiec]

And, and, and you know what? It. For me, I think a lot of this started when they started preaching multiculturalism. And they said, they started saying we need to, we need to embrace all cultures and every culture is. And, and I get where that starts. That starts from kind of like probably a, you know, a well meaning place or it's all well meaning.

[Jason Whitlock]

Right.

[Jack Posobiec]

We're multiculturalism. We should respect all cultures. But then you turn around and suddenly you start saying, wait a minute. But, but we have to have one culture. And that culture is the American culture. So that culture is red, white and blue. That culture.

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah.

[Jack Posobiec]

And of course you can look, obviously you could see people of different skin color, people with different backgrounds, like, duh, of course we have eyes. But that doesn't mean that you can't have a shared culture. And I just remember, you know, growing up when I did that, that's what it was. We were all American. It's like, you know, I always joke, you know, I'm from the Philadelphia area. So you go to Eagles game, you know, right. That's tribal. That' tribal. And especially Eagles fan. And when you get a, you know, and the Giants fans come in and it gets a little rough. It definitely gets a little rough. But, but there's that moment at the game when you play the Star Spangled Banner and everybody takes off your hat, you put your hand over your heart, you listen to the national anthem and for that moment you put that all aside and you say, we're all American satisfaction citizens. That's what's about having American culture first. Right back, Jack Posic. Jason Whitlock, Human Events Daily.

[Matt]

You talk about influencers. These are influencers and they're friends of mine. Jack. Where's Jack?

[Jason Whitlock]

Jack.

[Matt]

He's done a great job.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, Jack. We're back. Live Human Events Daily. You're looking at a live shot now of the West Wing portico. President Trump about to about to head out with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, MBS of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We do note that the Marine color guard has now exited or I should say entered the West Wing. So looking for that very soon. We're going to cut to that when it does happen, rather. Guest Jason Whitlock from the Blaze host the show Fearless and having a great conversation about sort of the differences between shared culture based on the values of the Bible, the values of our founding fathers, the history that we come that, you know, we bring back Greece, Rome, all of this history that we have in the United States that really fused and formed what our country is and how special that is and what a project that is and whether it matters that we keep it going. And I, my contention has been, and I call it multiculturalism. Jason's talking about tribalism. I think it's I think it's the same thing because I think the multiculturalism project puts you on the pathway to tribalism. Jason Whitlock, what do you say?

[Jason Whitlock]

Yeah, here's my problem with multiculturalism. All cultures are not created equal. And we have to have enough common sense, enough biblical understanding to understand that all cultures are not equal. And so when I think of hip hop culture, I don't want to be around it. I don't want to live next door to it. I don't want to be in an environment where people are cursing and calling each other's names and promoting all kinds of sexual deviants. And so it's this culture, multiculturalism that allows any and everything into your country, a country that you sacrifice for. And we're seeing people come into this country that have no interest in adopting a traditional American biblical culture. They want to just come over here and benefit from American freedom, American capitalism and all the opportunity, but they don't want to assimilate at all. I loved, I've been making this point for many, many years. Take my father who's now passed away, one of maybe my favorite person on earth when he was here, him and my grandmother and mom. But my father was racist. Just quite frankly, he was racist. He grew up at a time where he was mistreated and he did not like white people. But here's the truth of the matter. I never saw my dad mistreat a white person who treated him with respect. I never saw my dad really mistreat anybody at any time. But in, in particular he did not like white people. But I saw white people come into his bar, the Masterpiece Lounge, Jimmy's J Bar J and anybody that treated him respect with respect and adopted to the culture in the Masterpiece Lounge, my dad's bar, Jimmy's J Bar J, my dad's bar, they all got treated the same and well. And that's indicative of, there's a lot of people that claim that they're racist and, but, but the reality is if you exhibit values that they share, they're going to treat you great. When you move into a neighborhood and you don't play your music too loud and you supervise your kids and they don't run wild and your son isn't trying to get in bed with their 12 year old daughter or whatever and people are just and they keep your grass cut, no one cares what color you are, their bigotry disappears. And I saw it with my father, I've seen it with white people. If you adopt, adapt and present a culture that they respect and values that they share. No one cares about color. And that's the beauty of Christianity because Jesus defines for us a way of behavior, a culture that is inoffensive to any right minded person and, and, and is allows you to connect with any and everybody. I, I've, since I, I moved here to Nashville five years ago in 2020 and I moved away from Los Angeles and I wanted to get away from Los Angeles because the place was crazy and they were celebrating George Floyd and you know, you had to hate Trump if you lived in, in la. I moved here to Nashville and to Tennessee because I wanted to be around people that shared my worldview and, and everybody has treated me well, that shares my values regardless of color. That's again, it's why I, you know, lean so heavy into a biblical worldview and, and because it brings people together and a lot of these other cultures that are very tribal and, and have a different set of values and have a different norms that it's just incompatible, incompatible with law order and a structure where it's safe for young people to have the kind of childhood that I had. I had an amazing childhood here in America and I was poor. An amazing childhood. And we're denying that to these young people today. And it drives me crazy. It's, it's. I think. Go ahead.

[Jack Posobiec]

I'm sorry, before we, before we, we only got a couple of minutes left. I, I do have to ask it because the biggest diff, one of, one of the biggest differences I think now is also we had the COVID experience, but we also have the experience of so everyone's locked in their phone, locked in their houses and stuck on their phones.

[Jason Whitlock]

Right?

[Jack Posobiec]

So you're locked your house, you're stuck on your phone. And do you think that the rise of, we started talking about the online, you know, sort of squabbles. Do you think the algorithms, do you think social media, does it drive this tribalism?

[Jason Whitlock]

Yes, without question. And it, we're less connected, we think, hey, we've made the world smaller. Everybody's connected by their phone, but not in a real way. When people are dating through text messages or DMs on a social media app rather than calling. Again, I'm old enough to remember when there was one phone in the house and you'd call a girl and you'd have to hope that their mom or dad wasn't on the phone or their brother and sister. It's just, well, that was a rite.

[Jack Posobiec]

Of passage where you called and the dad answered. You remember that?

[Jason Whitlock]

Yes. And, but, but the connection, because you had to put effort, you had to put real effort into connecting with people and then you would connect with people. Everybody would meet at the mall. Shopping malls used to be a big deal and you'd actually be face to face with people that you're connecting with. And now it's all over on. It's all done online. And it's not healthy. It's not. It doesn't bring us together. It actually divides us.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, I think that's great, Jason. And, and something that I've looked at too is that Charlie Kirk, he had a healthy respect for the physical space. That's what he always tried to do. He tried to bring people together in person because I think he understood that. He think, I think he understood that if we stayed online too much, we would tear each other apart. And of course people did not like that. Folks, please go give Jason a follow. Go check his show out. Fearless over on the Blaze. Jack Boba. Be right back. Human Events Daily.

[Matt]

Jack, Where's Jack? Where is he? Jack, I want to see you. Great job, Jack.

[Jack Posobiec]

Thank you.

[Matt]

What a job you do. You know, we have an incredible thing. We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys and these are the guys who've been getting public.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, folks, Jack Sobeck back live Human Events Daily. Real America's Voice. We still got our live shot up of the White House portico. We're going to see whether or not or when I should say President Trump and MBS and their meeting. I guess they're still, they're still talking there. We know the color guard has gone in. I'm also told that the Jeffrey Epstein vote, the vote on these Epstein files this situation, it is the motion to suspend the rules and pass. So the vote has begun. And gosh, we are just. Is the, is the vote over, guys? Are we, are we getting that vote just ended because I was told the vote was on. I'm like they're saying they're counting but I'm seeing it looks like it's almost done. 3:70 or no. Still going 371. 376. I mean, Matt, I, I think you're. I haven't seen a single nay vote yet. A couple no votes, but almost zero no's at this point. All, I mean 375 already. So it's obviously going to pass. It's all, it's obviously passed. So we're going to see what happens. I want every single one of these files out and it's very important. Real quick, before we bring our guest in, I want to go to a quick message from our sponsor and then we'll get into this vote and what it means. Folks, anyone that knows me and the work that human events does day in and day out knows that the conservative movement never stops. And the fuel that keeps me, the show and the work going is blackout coffee. For years, blackout coffee has been my coffee of choice. Actually, just finished a whole bunch just now. And I know that many of you have, have wanted to get in on board, too. And many of you who have, you're absolutely loving it. This isn't just coffee. It's America itself in a cup. Yes. Really, literally. Founded on Christian. Founded on Christian values. Excuse me. Had a dab there a little bit. We all take a moment to dab every once in a while. Rooted in family and built on the belief that hardworking Americans deserve better than the corporate swill. Yes, this is the good stuff. Blackout coffee is a family business that roasts every batch right here in the usa. Two roasts you gotta try. Morning Reaper, a smooth, medium roast that kicks off your day without bitterness. And for the dark roast lover's brutal awakening, that's the one I love. A bold, rich roast with deep flavor that'll keep you sharp and alert. Perfect for serving families and friends around Christmas holidays. Because let's face it, the best gatherings start with the best coffee. So here's the deal. Go to blackout coffee.com poso and use promo code poso for 20% off your first order. That's blackout coffee.com poso support a company that shares your values, supports American jobs and fuels your freedom. One strong cup at a time, folks. Want to get in here because I want to be clear about this, this, this vote. Guys, are you telling me the vote just passed? Right? I want to be clear about this somewhat. There was a Democrat who voted no, it looks like at one point. But then, then I think they switched it back over to the yes column. And I'm just going to say before, you know, before we get to our guest, that I think this is really, this really is the voice of the people. The people of this country came together around the Epstein files, the Epstein case, and have said, you know what? We're sick of it. We're sick of this not coming out. We're sick of the lack of truth. Take the politics of it aside, there is a massive anti establishment push in this country. That's what's driving populism. People are sick of the system. And Epstein became emblematic of that system. And that's why you're seeing this incredible lopsided vote. Is there a Republican who voted no? Is that what I'm seeing now? All right, we're going to, we're going to dig into this, but I want to get our guest on now. We have Evita Duffy joining us now. What's up, Evita?

[Evita Duffy]

Hey, thanks for having me, Jack.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, Evita. She is my favorite anti communist. Evita, why does America care so much about the Epstein files?

[Evita Duffy]

I mean, I feel like Epstein has, has been in the back of everyone's minds for so long, and the, the unit party, the establishment, has been wanting us to forget about it. And it just keeps coming back up because Epstein is representative of all of the. We haven't had disclosure on RFK and JFK on the assassination on Tuskegee or the Promise Software scandal or MKUltra. There are so many scandals, abuses from our government. And Jeffrey Epstein is in very recent memory. And he's kind of become the symbol of all of the abuse that the American people have endured and put up with from our government. And to say no, finally this time, we want the truth. We want, what is the deal with Jeffrey Epstein? Who was he trafficking young girls to? And more importantly than even that, Jack, because the implications are even wider than just sex trafficking. But who was he working for? Right. Is it what did. Was there an intelligence angle here, whether that's United States or foreign? And that, I think, is going to be the question that comes after these files are finally released.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, and so here's, here's what we have so far. And I'm not sure if there's going to be a who voted what. There's going to be some changes in the actual vote, but it's clearly passed. Whatever. It's clearly through the House. And so there's no question about that. Now, we know at the same time that what we're hearing is that the Senate is set to change the bill because it does also have to pass the Senate. And so now there's going to be questions whether or not this will be able to make it through the Senate. I certainly hope it does. I've got this from straight narrow news. It says thune will seek to amend the bill to address privacy concerns. Speaker Johnson said the legislation was written with imprecise language. We could allow for the release of information about victims who wish to remain anonymous, classified information, child sex abuse material, including photos and information about innocent people who never committed a crime. And so, Evita, this I have to say, you know, nobody wants to go after the victims. Nobody wants to attack the victims. This is all about who were the clients. And, you know, it's just been something that, honestly, I do certainly wish that it had been dealt with differently at the beginning of the administration. I know that, you know, I've talked about this a million times at this point when a Piers Morgan talked about it, but this whole thing with the binders and having us in and then it was like stuff that had already been released. It was just. It was not the level of seriousness that this case deserves. And at the same time, though, you know, Evita, what do you think it's going to send? What kind of message is it going to send that if this comes out and there's still pages upon pages that are missing or, or pages that are blacked out?

[Evita Duffy]

Well, it's not going to go away. And I think that there has been a massive push, and I think, I think it's a bipartisan push. Democrats have pretended that they are on the side of disclosure, and they don't. They now suddenly care about Jeffrey Epstein. Let's be honest, lots of Democrats who are implicated in these files as well, many powerful Democrats who don't want them to come out. And so I think it's just, it's not going to go away. So all of the people on both sides of the aisle who have been wanting this to disappear are going to see it keep on coming up. If we see massive redactions, it's just. It's never going to end. And so, yeah, if we don't have disclosure, they're not going to get what they want. And the conspiracies are going to continue to fuel, I think, a lot of rage.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, and I think that's what it is, is when you have a case like Epstein where the, the crimes that we know about, in addition to alleged crimes are so horrific, are so disgusting and seemingly involve so many powerful people. I mean, this guy visited the Clinton White House 17 times. This guy had looks like on a, on an email basis with, you know, the heads of Harvard and all these people that are around our power structure, and suddenly we're hearing that he was involved in all this insane, you know, behavior down at the island, and Ghislaine Maxwell being a recruiter and others being recruiters. So the question is like, are our elites actually that depraved and gross and disgusting? And if so, was this some kind of rite of passage? Was going to the island the way that you got to become an elite. Because then everybody had dir dirt on everybody else. And it's like, now you're really in the club. That's what being clubbable means. And it's something where I think so many people have just made this the focal point of, you know, of really being able to understand will the establishment continue or will it not. And I'm still seeing, by the way, I'm looking at this vote, it says 427 for, one against, and it's a Republican. I gotta know who that Republican was because great, you know, great job you've got, you know, you've definitely, you've definitely been able to, you know, stick your. You're just, you're sticking your foot in it. You're just absolutely sticking your foot in it. And it's ridiculous. Evita Duffy, do you think that this is going to be something that goes away even if the files are released, or is it going to continue to be as viral of a trend as it is now?

[Evita Duffy]

I mean, I don't think we're going to get the answers from these files, I'm afraid about the redactions, Jack. And then I also have, I also have the intelligence question. And I think there's something deeper going on here as well. If you look at the American people, by and large, these are good people. We are still in fly over country, at least a Christian country. We have very traditional values. I mean, the soul of this country still exists in the people themselves. But there seems to be a radical disconnect in the values of the American people and the values of our elite class. And Jeffrey Epstein is sort of the symbol of that rot. Jeffrey Epstein is what we think of when we think of why our leaders are failing us, why they seem to be so morally depraved. The people that Jeffrey Epstein was connected with were potentially trafficking young girls to work at least was friends with are some of the most powerful people in the country, still the most powerful people in the country. And so it's become, I think, a symbol of elite rot, institutional rot. That's going to continue to be a conversation until there's a genuine reckoning. Right? What I'm talking about is prosecution and radical disclosure. Who was he working for?

[Jack Posobiec]

Who was he working for? So many questions. Evita Duffy. Jack Rasobic Join us Next Human Events Daily continues.

[Matt]

Jack is a great guy. He's written a fantastic book. Everybody's talking about it. Go get it. And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event. And we're going to turn it around and make our country great again.

[Jack Posobiec]

Amen. All right, folks. Jack Posobic Back Human Events Daily. Ladies and gentlemen, did you know that Utah and Florida recently banned fluoride in their drinking water? Why are they doing a massive U turn on something that's been pumped into our water for 80 years? The government claims that fluoride is for healthy teeth, but that's just nanny state nonsense. You don't need bureaucrats medicating your water. You need the freedom to choose pure water. That's why the Posho family uses Cove Pure, a countertop water purifier certified to remove up to 99.9% of impurities. That includes fluoride and other garbage like PFAS, fertilizer, runoff, you name it. The first thing I notice is the taste. Cove Pure helps water to become what it's supposed to taste like. Pure, clean, no aftertaste. The best part is you can choose any temperature, hot or cold, with just one tap. It's so easy. No drilling, no plumbers. Just fill it and plug it on in. Held to Cove Pure, head over to covpure.com poso that's a limited time. You will get 200 off. Makes a great Christmas present, by the way, for the people in your family. The government has no business forcing things into your water. Don't wait for them to sort out pure water. You have to do it yourself. That is covpure.com pozo c o v e p u r.com poso for $200 off all right, I'm being told that Clay Higgins is the loan holdout on the Epstein files. Republican Clay Higgins. Not a good luck Clay. Just going to tell you, man. Not a good look. Evita Duffy coming up here. I wanted to get you in on sort of the overall topic of today. I know we have about eight minutes left. MAGA versus the theater kids. That's kind of how I phrase the episode here. Because look, I'm all for people being constructive and people criticizing, but there's a place to do that. And there's also a way to run a political movement. And it seems though that people wanted to put drama at the front of everything. So they want to have their little drama circus. They wanted to blow this up. They wanted to say, oh, let's do this, let's do that. Meanwhile, I try to think of Charlie. I try to think of when Charlie was around. He'd pick up the phone, he would text, he would figure out every single way to do that in private. And then so that in public, what you would see and what he was fighting for was this unified front. And if there was an issue on, an issue on, on, you know, something come up, like Israel, you have a debate. Evita, are we, are we putting the cart before the horse? Are we doing drama at the, you know, at the detriment of securing victory?

[Evita Duffy]

I mean, yeah, the short answer is absolutely is absolutely. I mean, we have midterms coming up, and I feel like some people are forgetting what it's like when Democrats have total control. Like they're already drafting the impeachment for President Trump once they get power again in Congress. And I hope that doesn't happen, but it might if we stop being focused, continue on this path of, of just infighting and drama. The other thing is there's all this pressure on the president, states himself, on our vice president, on members in the Trump administration to weigh in on all this drama. And they're forgetting that the second President Trump leaves office, President Trump, as well as everyone who worked for him, is going to be targeted by potentially a Democrat administration. This is what President Biden didn't. You can bet that it's going to be a thousand times worse under another Democrat administration. This is how they play the game now. So if we're not focused on victory, we are securing, we are instead promising our own destruction. I think it's very shortsighted, very stupid. And it's especially stupid from people that are supposedly movement driven who are leading us down this path of, of just distraction.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, and it breeds deactivation as well, right? Because suddenly you're saying, oh, well, this, this guy's not based enough, this guy's not good enough, this guy's not going hard enough or whatever. So you think it's, it's edgy and cool, right, to stay home and deactivate and not come out and vote, and then the Democrats win and we all end up in the Gulags. And you can be like, see, I was right. Okay, cool. But guess what? You're going to be in the Gulag too. Like, I just, I don't really understand that way of thinking. And I guess it's very short. It's just very shortsighted. It's so incredibly shortsighted. You've got to focus on the big victory. Doesn't mean you're not going to have, you know, you know, family, you know, family feuds, family disputes. Absolutely. But you keep it in the family because at the end of the day, we are up against billionaires who want us all in prison or dead. And if you don't believe me, go look at how they reacted to the murder of Charlie Kirk.

[Evita Duffy]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's incredible to me, and to his credit, President Trump has been, has been focused. I mean, he, he was questioned on, will you disavow Tucker Carlson for having a conversation with someone? And President Trump said, no, I'm not going to do that. I've been on Tucker Carlson's show. He's a good guy. I like him. Whatever, let's move on. That should be the tone everybody's taking right now. There is just a lack of focus and it's going to be, I think, a major mistake.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, it would be an absolute mistake. And honestly, it goes back to me thinking when in the Russian Civil War, when that broke out between the final elements of the Imperial Russian army under General Wrangel and the Bolsheviks, the like literal, actual Bolsheviks as the White army versus the Red army, that they broke down into infighting, they couldn't decide on who was going to be the leader. And some of them started getting picked off and some of them started losing. They took some Ls here, took some Ls there. And rather than actually unify together and fight back against the Bolsheviks who were literally killing their families, they rather fought one another until they got to the point where the Bolsheviks completely swept over power and took over the entire country. I mean, I can't think of anything that's similar to that. Can you?

[Evita Duffy]

No. And I think the worst part, Jack, is that we've, we've seen an excellent example of what the left is capable of, and that is the murder of Charlie Kirk in the wake of his death. It should have been a wake up call that, okay, we all need to unite. Like that's what the enemy is. Not just the radical furry, like lover of a furry who murdered Charlie Kirk, who has they them pronouns in his bio, but all of the Democrats, Democrats who celebrated his public slaughter, his live streamed slaughter. You didn't walk away from that scene and say, okay, now it's time to unite and actually fight instead. We've seen so many Republicans get mad at other conservatives for having conversations. It's outrageous. And the craziest part is that these are Republicans who are willing to have conversations with radical leftists who again, want all of us dead. But somehow the line is crossed and we're having conversations with conservatives. It's ridiculous. It is asinine. And it's a losing strategy.

[Jack Posobiec]

No. And you really wonder if there are people who just want to Lose, like maybe, you know, talk about different fetishes, I suppose, you know, but you've got the furries, you've got humiliation, you've got all the rest of it out there and it's disgusting. And at the same time. And by the way, I've even seen Evita where I spend all last week talking about this furry fetish and the transism, transism, genderism of, of Lance Twigs. And then it comes out that there's other elements perhaps tied to transgenderism and, or at least gender ideology and furry websites of President Trump's original assassin, Thomas Matthew Crooks. And then people say, oh, well, you're not talking about my pet issue, so you must be covering it up. I'm like, no, I'm just following the evidence.

[Evita Duffy]

Yeah, well, and Jack, I mean, one of the most disturbing. You shared a video on your ex feed from Turkey Tom where he broke down this Thomas Crooks assass attempt on President Trump. Who was this kid? Finally, we have some. I'm sorry, it was not Thomas Crooks. It was. Yes, I'm sorry.

[AI Expert]

Yeah.

[Evita Duffy]

Yes, yes. So they. His parents.

[Jack Posobiec]

David is like, there's just too many furries. There's too many furries and too little time.

[Evita Duffy]

Not Thomas Crooks. This was about Lance, that his parents surrounded by furries, allegedly because they thought he was possessed by a demon. That some of his friends had said when he. When he's laughing and pointing to these bizarre conversations with chat GPT and Latin and Greek and weird symbols, he seems to be possessed by a demon. I mean, that to me was the most disturbing part of this case, that there is potentially a demonic element here. Actually, I think most certainly is a demonic element here to be able to do certainly what Thomas Crooks did or what Lance's lover did, Tyler. And so it's spiritual forces as well that we need to be thinking about and fighting. And instead, Jack, we are just so distracted and disunified.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, that's exactly right. It's 100% right. Evita Duffy, tell people where they can go to follow you for all the hottest takes on anti communism and pop culture to every once in a while.

[Evita Duffy]

Evita Duffy, underscore one on my Instagram and X. Thanks so much for having me, Jack.

[Jack Posobiec]

All right, make sure to go and give her a follow. Ladies and gentlemen, if there's anyone who hates communism more than me, it's Evita Duffy. Folks, that's it for us here at Human Events. Remember our email 1776 at human events. Com. Make sure you subscribe, get the podcast so you never miss an episode. And, ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission to lay ashore.