THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 125 — Red Button or Blue Button? AI Car Police? Shooter Selfies?

Summary

Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec

THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 125 — Red Button or Blue Button? AI Car Police? Shooter Selfies?

Date: May 4, 2026
Theme: “Thought Crime Thursday” – Exploring the intersection of technology, culture, and politics with a satirical, fast-paced roundtable of current hot topics, from cultural nostalgia and viral online debates to political events and controversies.

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Episode Overview

The “Thought Crime” crew (Jack Posobiec and panel, featuring Blake, Caboose, Andrew, Dylan, Ethan, and others) dive into a sprawling discussion of modern and recent American culture, media, and politics. They begin with lighthearted nostalgia—riffing on 1990s commercials—before pivoting into the serious and surreal, dissecting the recent shooting scare at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, online reactions including “shooter selfies,” and the viral "red button vs. blue button" moral dilemma. The panel debates generational differences in crisis responses, authenticity in social media, morality and individualism, and concludes with coverage of the current Michael Jackson biopic and controversy surrounding the Animal Farm film adaptation.

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Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. Cultural Nostalgia: The Crossfire Game Ad & 1990s Childhood

• 00:20–07:05
  • Playful banter about the 1990s “Crossfire” commercial as a cultural touchstone for Millennials.
  • Debate over whether the toy was actually fun compared to how cool it looked in the ad.
  • Quote:
    “Crossfire is a testament to America’s, like, greatest cultural export, which is insane commercials for things that are of middling quality, and we should be proud of that.” — Andrew (06:54)
  • Audience engagement—some younger listeners don’t get the reference; group jokingly shames them.

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2. White House Correspondents’ Dinner Shooting Scare & “Shooter Selfies”

• 07:46–16:33
  • Firsthand account from Caboose, who was present during the recent incident.
  • Emphasizes confusion and panic, Secret Service actions, lack of cell service (possible jammers for security).
  • Notable rise of “selfie videos” among journalists in the aftermath, with a third reportedly filming themselves.
  • Quote:
    “Within a moment, this is a room full of journalists...they all start doing selfies...at least a third of them were going like this, taking selfie videos of what just happened.” — Caboose (09:59)
  • Panel debates generational/media attitudes: Should journalists film the event or themselves? Is “selfie journalism” authentic or narcissistic?
  • Blake defends the trend:
    “Those videos are very relatable...for authenticity...a direct connection with the person.” (13:09)

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3. Shooter Selfies & "Main Character Syndrome"

• 15:30–19:15
  • Analyze attacker Cole Thomas Allen’s pre-attack mirror selfie—psychologizing criminals’ “main character syndrome.”
  • Quote:
    “You know what that’s called? That’s main character syndrome. It’s this narcissism...they all think they’re the hero of a movie.” — Blake (18:32)
  • Discussion on criminals documenting their actions for notoriety.

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4. “Charles J. Kirk Ballroom” Naming Script – Political Symbolism and Memes

• 19:34–28:08
  • Joking proposal to name a new White House ballroom after conservative figure Charles J. Kirk or Donald J. Trump; riffing on “positive paradox questions” where choices seem the same.
  • Discussion on symbolism, trolling, and how public venues are named.
  • Considerations of which universities might name something after Kirk; playful speculation about how progressives would react.

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5. The Red Button vs. Blue Button Viral Dilemma

• 28:21–47:54
  • In-depth breakdown of the viral “red button/blue button” question:
    • Secret choice: If more than 50% press blue, everyone lives; if not, only red-pressers live.
    • Panel explores game theory, psychology, moral arguments, and group vs. individual outcomes.
    • Discuss assumptions about who would press which and what it says about culture/politics (liberals, conservatives, gender differences, etc.).
    • Prompt input from the chat about their hypothetical choices.
    • Shopping cart analogy:
      “Putting away the cart” = pro-social/blue button; “leaving it out = red button/self-interest.
    • Memorable debate:
      • “I think the world with all the blue button pushers taken out is a worse one...they are the people who put the shopping cart back.” — Andrew (32:57)
      • Varied stances: Is pressing red “unchristian”? Is pressing blue naïve?
  • Frequent interruptions with humor, playful accusations, and reference to broader implications (“What kind of world does this make?”).

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6. Michael Jackson Biopic & Media Narratives

• 50:32–72:21
  • Discussion sparked by the new Michael Jackson movie and its omission of child abuse allegations.
  • Candid confessions: several panelists assumed Jackson’s guilt by default due to tabloid culture and documentaries (especially “Leaving Neverland”), then admit reconsidering after examining evidence, counter-documentaries, and criticized true-crime genre methods.
  • Reflection on the “documentary effect”—how biased documentaries shape collective memory and sometimes distort.
  • Quote:
    “When you watch a documentary, typically they take one side of the story and ride that side all the way home…” — Blake (56:41)
  • Broader observations about media framing, cancel culture, and how celebrities (esp. Michael Jackson) became targets in a hostile media environment.
  • Explains Michael’s medical condition (vitiligo), the trauma of childhood fame, and his motivation for building Neverland.
  • Panel notes distinction in modern vs. past media scrutiny.
  • Macaulay Culkin angle:
    Discussion of the child star defending MJ and the broader pattern of troubled child celebrities.

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7. Next Week’s Preview: Animal Farm Movie Controversy

• 75:03–78:55
  • Plan to review the upcoming Angel Studios adaptation of “Animal Farm.”
  • Rumor: movie flips Orwell’s intended anti-communist theme to a critique of capitalism.
  • Guild and audience reactions; some expressing open-mindedness, others concerned about ideological subversion.
  • Panel acknowledges creative license, but says they’ll give it a fair review next episode.
  • Quote:
    “I’m gonna go into this with an open mind. And if they missed and it is like a crap movie that totally bastardized it...I will be the first to admit it.” — Caboose (77:19)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Crossfire is a testament to America’s, like, greatest cultural export, which is insane commercials for things that are of middling quality.” — Andrew (06:54)
• “Within a moment...a room full of journalists...they all start doing selfies...” — Caboose (09:59)
• “Those videos are very relatable...a direct connection with the person.” — Blake (13:09)
• “You know what that’s called? That’s main character syndrome...they all think they’re the hero of a movie.” — Blake (18:32)
• “Putting away the cart is a perfect analog...leaving the shopping cart out like an animal is the red button push.” — Andrew (33:16)
• “If Red won, how many nurses, firefighters, police officers would even be left?” — Dylan (37:55)
• “When you watch a documentary, typically they take one side...they just ride that side all the way home.” — Blake (56:41)
• “I don’t get good vibes from Mr. Beast. He gives me Blippi vibes.” — Blake (49:59)
• “I think Michael Jackson...I feel bad for him in the same way I feel bad for Kanye West.” — Dylan (69:39)

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Tone and Style

• Fast-paced, conversational, and irreverent—oscillating between dark humor and earnest debate.
• Frequent interruptions, inside jokes, audience chat engagement, and playful generational ribbing.
• Serious issues (political violence, media morals) are contrasted with cartoonish nostalgia and meme culture.
• Panelists toggle between cynicism, satire, and “open-minded skepticism.”

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Conclusion

This episode represents “Thought Crime Thursday” at its most eclectic: a wild, satirical tour through nostalgia, national news, the psychology of internet dilemmas, and controversies both pop-cultural and political. With chat and pop references peppering the entire show, it’s a thought-provoking—if chaotic—summary of the week’s cultural and ideological debates from the right-populist podcast sphere.

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[For those interested: Next week’s review of the new Animal Farm adaptation is teased as a major segment.]

Transcript

[Andrew]

From the age of Big Brother.

[Blake]

If they want to get you, they'll get you.

[Andrew]

DNSA specifically targets the communications of everyone.

[Blake]

They're collecting your communications. Ladies and gentlemen, Thought Crime Thursday is upon us. They tried to shut it down. They tried to cancel Thought Crime Thursday. They tried to do everything they could, but they couldn't stop it. Because even without songs, even without presence, Thought Crime Thursday always comes. I was going for a Grinch thing. I don't know why I did that, but I just did that. Let's see who we have here.

[Caboose]

Because I was like, where is Jack going?

[Andrew]

How the Grinch Stole. Thought Crime.

[Caboose]

How the Grinch Stole. That'll be our Christmas special.

[Andrew]

You're a normie, Mr. Grinch.

[Caboose]

This is no normies allowed.

[Blake]

It totally works.

[Andrew]

You're a man of boring thoughts.

[Caboose]

No, it's just like, Establishment.

[Blake]

And on that day, the Grinch's Thought crimes grew five sizes.

[Caboose]

Okay, are we. Are we already getting into the J.P. morgan story?

[Blake]

Is that.

[Caboose]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Andrew]

We have a way more important topic that we were talking just before we started, which is.

[Caboose]

Imagine that by.

[Andrew]

We were talking about probably. I think this is, like, the most impactful video of the 1990s. Possibly the most impactful cultural artifact of the post World War II era. Post World War II era, which is the crossfire advertisement from the 90s.

[Caboose]

Hold on. This is how we got here. The studio goes, can we get a little crosstalk with Jack? Because Jack's remote. And I was like. For some reason, it made me think of Cross Fire, the show with Tucker on CNN back in the day. Who else was on that show?

[Andrew]

I can't remember because I was, like, 8.

[Caboose]

And then you guys didn't even care about that reference. You just, like, started singing a jingle to Crossfire. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because it was amazing. It was super important, right?

[Blake]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

You agree with me on this, right?

[Dylan]

Tyler, you remember the Crossfire? Yeah. We immediately sang it together.

[Caboose]

No, it was. It was literally harmony in here. They were trying to harmonize.

[Andrew]

Crossfire. You get caught up in the crossfire.

[Caboose]

I love Crossfire.

[Dylan]

Crossfire. It was. It was on every episode of. Of Double Dare, I think.

[Caboose]

Oh, is that where it's from?

[Andrew]

No. Well, no, it was.

[Caboose]

It aired.

[Dylan]

It was on Nickelodeon.

[Andrew]

Like, it was a kids. You know, all the kids game.

[Caboose]

Or a show?

[Dylan]

No, it was a game.

[Blake]

You don't know Crossfire?

[Caboose]

I don't think.

[Andrew]

You don't know about Cross.

[Caboose]

I mean, if they pull up the video, maybe I do.

[Blake]

Gemy Card. Did you.

[Dylan]

Did you not watch Nickelodeon endlessly.

[Caboose]

Like we did in the fire. What is it? Crossfire.

[Dylan]

Nickelodeon was all I wanted. Nickelodeon raised me.

[Caboose]

I bet. I know it. I just am forgetting Andrew was raised

[Blake]

by a wild pack of Chihuahuas, actually, and they never let him watch tv.

[Caboose]

So, wait, is it a board game?

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, it's not quite a board game. It's like a Hungry Hungry Hippos type game.

[Blake]

Like, I mean, it's like similar.

[Caboose]

Does it have those little BB Bradley? Is it like little bb?

[Andrew]

Yeah, we got it. Do we have this ready to go yet? Do we have this ready yet?

[Caboose]

I don't have it ready yet. I was like, the brutal call from Kylie when she goes, it's not loaded yet. I always do that to her during the live show.

[Andrew]

I said that at least 55 seconds ago.

[Caboose]

I know. Poor girl.

[Andrew]

She's.

[Blake]

She.

[Caboose]

We give her a lot of, like, last minute demands, and so sometimes I make the call for the video and I hear that in our ear. You don't hear it on the other side. But it's not loaded yet.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, maybe we'll get. We'll get to it.

[Caboose]

She's very thorough about letting us know when something is loaded.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you know, we can. We can. We don't need to fixate on it. But the point is, is Crossfire was important. It was extremely culturally impactful. Fit into the important millennials. Like Geist, which is. You'd watch an ad, it would have an amazing song, it would make it look like the coolest thing ever, and then you'd actually get it for Christmas, and you play with it for like five minutes and go, I just. Kind of lame. And then you became a jaded millennial who voted for Obama.

[Caboose]

Well, yes, that's true. Oh, she. She said, it's loaded. It's loaded. Let's do it. Play the. Play the clip.

[Ethan]

Oh, no, no sound.

[Caboose]

It's all right, I'm watching.

[Ethan]

It's the 90s.

[Andrew]

It's not about. It's not about the imagery.

[Dylan]

Crossfire, Crossfire, Crossfire, Crossfire.

[Andrew]

And then they, like, explode.

[Dylan]

Yeah, no, the kid. The kid at the end, the kid spins out. Watch.

[Andrew]

Yeah, the game spins.

[Dylan]

I actually.

[Blake]

It was so bad.

[Caboose]

The. What are we black? The board. The board was bad.

[Blake]

No, the actual. If you play the commercial, it was. It's the greatest. It's obviously the greatest commercial of any game for all time. But the actual game was awful. There's no one who still plays it. There's no.

[Caboose]

I thought this was the most important cultural artifact of the 90s. Ever.

[Dylan]

Wait, I just googled. Wait, I just googled. Wait, I just googled it. Jack's right. I googled greatest commercial for any board game of all time. The 1989 Crossfire commercial is widely considered the greatest, most memorable board game advertisement. Board game advertisement featuring high energy rock music, laser shooting gameplay, and iconic, streamlined tagging.

[Andrew]

You.

[Dylan]

You'll get caught up in the Crossfire.

[Caboose]

Speaking of Crossfire, Jack.

[Dylan]

So this. Wait, so this isn't nothing.

[Caboose]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That is a. Dude.

[Ethan]

That is quite the second.

[Dylan]

Wait, wait, wait. You want to hear the other four? Battleship Dream Phone, which also was a big deal. The Dream Phone and Pizza Party.

[Andrew]

I just. I decided to go bigger and I. I asked. I asked Google just. Greatest toy ad of all time.

[Caboose]

And.

[Andrew]

And they listed several options, but they actually had Crossfire as one of the five, along with the original Slinky ad and the board game Mousetrap.

[Dylan]

Actually, Mousetrap was a big deal.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Dylan]

But I can't.

[Ethan]

Oh, yeah, I remember.

[Andrew]

And we're getting. Some of the younger people in the chat are not familiar with Crossfire, and all I have to say to them,

[Ethan]

I was not familiar.

[Andrew]

Exactly. So with Crossfire, all I'm going to

[Blake]

say is I was fine.

[Andrew]

Going to have some accountability for this. And Russ, you have to say on air, I am uncool and lame because I don't know what Crossfire was.

[Dylan]

You know, Mousetrap was big dream phone.

[Blake]

Oh, good. We're gonna take them away.

[Ethan]

Mousetrap is a d. Was a decent game.

[Andrew]

Splat.

[Blake]

Yeah, splat.

[Andrew]

I've never heard of that one.

[Ethan]

Shoots and ladders.

[Andrew]

You guys remember, shoots and ladders did not have any cool.

[Ethan]

Have any cool action.

[Blake]

But it wasn't an ad. It was just a cool game.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Crossfire is a testament to America's, like, greatest cultural export, which is insane commercials for things that are of middling quality, and we should be proud of that. That has taken over the.

[Blake]

Andrew, Andrew. So, Andrew, you mentioned something about Crossfire.

[Caboose]

Yes, yes, I. I did, yes. Well, the. I mean, you want me to. Is this. Is this segue to me? Yeah, I was trying to segue.

[Blake]

So this is literally the segue over your segue. But I'm supposed to point.

[Caboose]

You're throwing me the ball. I'm picking it up, and I'm running with it.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, Andrew had watched the ad, he would be like, his brain would have received additional neurons from its power, and he would have caught the Segway more.

[Caboose]

I would have, yes. But, you know, it's probably that I'm just shaken up. I'm shaken up still.

[Andrew]

I would be shaken up if I learned that I missed the coolest ad ever when I was a kid.

[Caboose]

So, White House correspondence dinner. We should address it. Let's get it. Let's, let's. We gotta do the thing. So there's many things that we can talk about, we've talked about on the Daily show, but. But in general terms, yes, I was there. Jack was actually the second person to call me and get through. There was terrible service in the room, but my wife was actually the first person to get through, which was, I think, actually a God thing, because I tried to call her, couldn't get through. She ended up getting through to me, and I knew she was gonna be worried about me. But we were all good. It was just. It was a crazy experience because we got stuck under the tables. And I remember thinking the scariest part was don't make any abrupt moves because the Secret Service looked like very, very intense. Like, which they should have. Right? But it felt like if you moved abruptly, that they might have, you know, considered you a threat and taken a shot at you. Right. I mean, it was. My first memory is I'm hearing glasses drop from the back of the room. I look over and I see a chair flying through the air. So a Secret Service agent had actually picked up a chair and thrown it. And that was pretty terrifying, actually. Then everybody starts diving under the tables. I'm sitting under there, and all of a sudden it occurs to me, did I just. Was I just present for the assassination of President Trump? That was the part where you have to understand, in the room, nobody knew what the hell was going on. We had no idea. We had no idea because it was so cacophonous that there was. You were like, I obviously didn't hear what I was supposed to hear. And then I kind of think I logged like maybe a thump, thump in the back of the room, but I really didn't know anything. So as soon as the coast clears and we all sit up and stand up, I looked, I saw Phil Wegman, who. You've met Phil right before Tyler many times, and he's with the Wall Street Journal. I said, phil, did they shoot the President? And he said, I don't think so. I saw them drag him off the stage. I did not witness JD Vance going off the stage. So I was like, well, do you know if they dragged him off and he was injured or if he was shot or what? And he's like, I don't believe he was Shot. But I could be wrong. So for like 20 minutes, we're all in the ballroom trying to figure it out. And I think, Jack, this is what we talked about before the show. What was the wildest part, actually, what a weird place is just I'm standing up there and all of a sudden, within a moment, this is a room full of journalists, journalists on air, TV personalities, they all start doing selfies. I have this picture in my mind of videos. It was 2000 people in this room, 2200. I'm not kidding when I say at least a third of them within, like as soon as everybody kind of started rising their feet, at least a third of them were going like this, taking selfie videos of what just happened. And there was no service in that dang room. I don't know. Like.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, I was getting texts from people who were in the room and they only were arriving a half hour plus.

[Caboose]

Yeah, I don't know if it was signal. It was funny because.

[Andrew]

No, I think it's just, it's underground.

[Caboose]

It's a bad.

[Blake]

Yeah, well, I, I do think. No, actually in all seriousness, that when there is something like that, signal jammers will sometimes be employed. It's an EOD strategy for basically that if there's any remote control devices, remote controlled IDs, RCIDs, that they would, you know, they, they would block signals just in case. Just in case, you know, out of abundance of caution, if there were something that they would block signals to prevent it from sending like a, like a trigger signal or something.

[Andrew]

But it is also.

[Caboose]

Yeah, like, I think it could be like, both things are true.

[Blake]

In addition to all the obvious.

[Caboose]

Yeah, it could be like both things are true. But anyways, the point is it's a standard procedure. I just remember, like, so there was somebody on the team that was like, you should do a selfie. That was literally what it took for my team to like tell me I should do a selfie from the room. Because it didn't occur to me even as I was watching everybody.

[Blake]

All right, so now wait, guys. Just got his Gen Y card back.

[Caboose]

No, so check this out. So I know, but I look up and frickin Brian Stelter had jumped up onto the stage. Like legit. Like we had.

[Andrew]

I didn't know he could jump. He's a.

[Caboose]

Well, I don't know how he got up. Maybe there were stairs on the side. I'm looking. Brian Stelter's on the freaking dais.

[Dylan]

Like there's a ladder.

[Andrew]

Also, the real Brian Stelter was executed in Guantanamo Bay, that was.

[Caboose]

This is real.

[Andrew]

This core, real raw news lore.

[Caboose]

The. The. The lookalike, the real Rod. I don't know if our audience is. Our audience fully, but this is.

[Blake]

This is an interesting thing, though, is that because I saw, like, the selfie discourse actually kind of became like, you know, a topic trending online, and people were saying, like, hey, note to younger journalists. If you're in a room where something like this happens, you're supposed to point your phone at the thing that's happening, not at yourself. Which I admit, I found that to be.

[Caboose]

It was interesting. I saw. Yeah, I mean, listen, there was, like, some journals that weren't doing, like, I think I saw Nora o' Donnell or whatever. I saw Margaret Brent Brennan. Right. I saw that. They just looked very, very upset and distraught.

[Blake]

Well, you know, I actually, like. I would actually kind of push back on some of the people who were like, like, hyper critical of the younger folks who were doing the selfie videos. Because when you, you know, when you're on, like, TikTok and Instagram and, you know, even Twitter as well, that those videos are very relatable when, you know, with the younger audience. And those are the type of videos that they tend to look for, for authenticity, and they look for that for a direct connection with the person. So I'm not saying, you know, obviously, like, if there's a. Something going on, you do want that footage. But I did see. I do think there's like, a generational gap here where it's like, no, they do want the selfie videos because they feel it has more authenticity than, you know, you just like being behind a camera in a studio with the chiron and, like, this is what happened. Like, well, I feel like it's more real.

[Caboose]

Listen, it was. We could have. What's wild is I don't think people understand this in the room. We did not know what happened. We had no idea. So you got all these journalists that are, like. All they do is, like, watch the news all day. They're all in the.

[Andrew]

Which is funny because no side watching it at a distance, which I was. It's extremely obvious nothing happened because the camera is actually on Trump when it happens. And then they whisk Vance right away. They take a little while to get Trump out, as I think I noticed. They take a little bit to walk him out.

[Caboose]

There was that one dude, though, that went and stood, but it was so

[Andrew]

easy for you to rewind it and see, like, okay. And so when we found out at a distance, pretty quickly.

[Blake]

Yeah, I Actually, the very first thing that I saw was just a clip of them whisking Trump out. Like someone like came over at this place I was at, called my house and. And was like, have you seen this? And I thought, just initially I thought like maybe something had happened to the President. The way that they all swarmed around him, because that's all I saw.

[Caboose]

Well, then he fell. So that was the other thing. He like went down and so people.

[Blake]

But there were like steps or something, I think.

[Caboose]

I don't know. But it was.

[Dylan]

I thought they like pushed him down.

[Caboose]

I don't know.

[Dylan]

I thought they were. I thought they were like trying to get him down low.

[Caboose]

I also heard a theory he was going down.

[Dylan]

I. I thought. I thought they were trying to like push him down, like get him down because they weren't sure like that.

[Caboose]

The. Yeah, yeah. All I know is it. But there is another selfie angle to this. Jack, if you could throw up. Image 1. This is Cole Thomas Allen. He's taken a picture in the Mirror man, just moments before. Apparently this was within 30 minutes of his attack. Dressed all in black with a red tie. He's got a knife in his belt. He's got a gun looks like strapped underneath his arm. And he had a shotgun, right? Where's the shotgun in this?

[Blake]

I don't see the shotgun in this picture.

[Andrew]

If you zoom in on his face, he's got like a dreamworks face, if you guys are familiar with that.

[Blake]

He's doing the. The Office, right? Who's that character from the Office?

[Andrew]

Is it. Is it Jim? It feels more like. It feels. I need to see his face. Guys. His face.

[Caboose]

Guys. Not the.

[Blake]

Not the weapons. The face.

[Caboose]

The weapons. There's the weapons.

[Andrew]

I just want his big. His big low resolution face glaring right at.

[Caboose]

That was actually helpful. I want to go back to those in just a second.

[Andrew]

We'll get there in a second.

[Blake]

We will.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Oh my gosh.

[Andrew]

He's got that's totally DreamWorks face there.

[Caboose]

It's just cuz he's like half black, half white.

[Andrew]

No, he's got. He doesn't have an even smile. He's doing that like he looks. And like every dreamworks character has that Shrek Megamind. Look at all the dreamworks posters for me.

[Blake]

I go. I go to Jim from the Office that. It's just that like, you know, and. And J.D. vance kind of did a similar, you know, smug with Margaret for the camera when he was on at the debate.

[Caboose]

Oh, that was. You're right.

[Dylan]

Yeah. I thought he looked Like, I think this guy told me, like, somebody that everybody's seen before. I thought it was.

[Caboose]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[Andrew]

It's.

[Caboose]

It's the mixed race thing. And to the DreamWorks thing, it's like every character on any, like, animated thing is like always ethnically, like, ambiguous. There's like a few white, white kids and then everybody else is kind of like, he definitely.

[Andrew]

The reason I say DreamWorks face, they always have that smirk. It's like, it's a way of showing that you're not. You're not one of those basic just normal smilers. You've got. You've got punk energy, you've got an edge to it.

[Caboose]

All the knives, this guy and dreamworks

[Andrew]

always do that to show they weren't just a Pixar movie.

[Caboose]

Okay, that's the shotgun down there with the handgun. Shotgun. So he, he. He had it over. Slung over his shoulder, maybe in that image.

[Dylan]

Remember somebody was saying this to me one time. I can't remember what incident.

[Blake]

I don't think it's over his shoulder.

[Caboose]

I don't.

[Blake]

I don't know.

[Dylan]

I can't remember what incident was.

[Blake]

Don't see it.

[Dylan]

But people, people were saying to me, when people go in and do stuff like this part of like their whole, like, you know, anti hero arc that they believe that they're like, part of is like that process of like getting booked and all that stuff. So, like, they're like at peak joy in those moments where, like, you've seen that a lot happen, where it's like a lot of them have. Like, sometimes you see, like people look like they're shaking up and they're like they've lost. They've. They're like, have screws loose. But some people, like this guy, this

[Caboose]

guy, this guy was not a quack in that sense. No, no.

[Dylan]

Similar to. Similar to the. The what? To Luigi.

[Caboose]

Right, right.

[Blake]

You know what that's called, though? You know what that's called? That's main character syndrome. Yeah, that's main character syndrome.

[Caboose]

It's the narcissism of it is.

[Blake]

Yeah, they all think that they're like the hero of a movie. And you see this, you see this with like, a lot of Redditors. You see this with a lot of, like, people in that lane of, you know, lane of country, where it's just this constant, like, it's like they're performing for someone. Like, like someone's watching them. So I, I guess he took the selfie and we don't know. I Think I read the affidavit. I don't know if he texted this selfie to anyone, which is really interesting to me. So it's like, did he take this selfie knowing that the police would find it and then show it later? Like, like, who's the audience for this anyway?

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Caboose]

I don't know, man. Maybe he just knew. He was documented history. He's like, this is gonna be the guy that killed a bunch of cabinet members and should probably be like, it

[Blake]

was tie tucked into his belt.

[Caboose]

Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't know, like

[Ethan]

a little well planned. Like, who, who just runs straight into a well.

[Caboose]

So this, this, this brought up an interesting thing. And so I just tweeted about this. I, I want to know. Angelo thinks this is probably not a good idea. So I, I, and I trust Angela's wisdom on this stuff, but you're gonna ignore it anyway. No, no. Like, no, he's saying it's not a good idea, so I shouldn't push. No, he, I don't think, I mean, I don't know. I don't think he minds if I bring it up. The. But somebody posted an AI image of the new ballroom. So there was two things that happened. So then a bunch of people online started saying, this is a good reason for the ballroom. And then because, you know, for security. And then somebody posted this, the Charlie Kirk Ballroom, that Trump's the development. And I was like, this is a great idea because you have the Brady briefing room. That was. Brady was shot.

[Blake]

Retweet.

[Caboose]

Retweet. Yeah, Brady was shot at the

[Blake]

Hilton.

[Caboose]

So we got the Brady briefing room. How about the Kirk Ballroom? And, you know, and then I think, you know, the question is, is that like, well, Trump's probably gonna name it after himself, so maybe we're a lot of things, we're giving people, like, a bad choice because the people that want him named Trump or Kirk, they both like each other. So you're giving them, like, an impossible choice.

[Andrew]

I mean, I just, I think it's just straightforward.

[Blake]

Andrew Faz is, is denying this. Foz is saying that you are fake news. He's saying that he never said idea.

[Caboose]

Oh, it's a positive paradox. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so to be fair to what Faz said, he said, if you're loyal to Charlie, is it cool, Foz if I read this? I'm just making sure. I want to make sure I get you right. The positive paradox. So if you're loyal to Charlie, then you'd be de facto de facto loyal to Trump. And if you're loyal to Trump, you're de facto loyal to Charlie. So it's one of those questions where any answer will get you.

[Blake]

Oh, you mean, you mean over. Wait, are you just saying about the name.

[Caboose]

Yeah, yeah. The, the Charlie Kirk Ballroom or the Trump Ballroom?

[Blake]

Because everybody, I would, because I tweeted this the other day, I would, I would just say. I would go with Charles J. Kirk.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Blake]

I just think maybe a little more official Charles J. Kirk as opposed to Charlie. I know we all know Ms. Charlie. I know that that's, I mean, you know, it's, it's, you know, obviously his, you know, what he went by, but I would just say Charles J. Because it's just that it just gives it that little extra, you know.

[Caboose]

Donald J. Trump.

[Blake]

Yeah, Donald J. Trump.

[Ethan]

And one thing to serve his love is to give you your whole legal name.

[Dylan]

Well, that's, that's an. If that's an official thing within government,

[Caboose]

what is the chat thing?

[Dylan]

That's the identifier.

[Blake]

That's the chat.

[Andrew]

Actually, I think another, frankly, another good reason to name it after Charlie is it's possible due to various legal things, it might not be done by the time that this administration is out. And I think if you just pre announce this is named after Charles Kirk. Thank you. It's a lot harder for baddies to undo it. And we don't. Then we don't end up with the Amanda Gorman Ballroom or something.

[Dylan]

And by the end, by the way, Charlie, that's a good point. Turning Point was actually one of the first to host, like, one of the main galas at Mar A Lago, which has become a thing. Like, that's kind of a number. And let's be, let's be real, like, this ballroom is like a, like a, basically a ode to Mar A Lago at the White House.

[Blake]

Oh, Dylan. Dylan in the chat pointed out we have the Donald J. Trump International Airport because that's. Is that what they named Palm Beaches? And then, and then here's, here's Kyrie McAllen saying Jack's keeping the formality. So Charles J. Kirk, Donald J. Trump, you know, the ballroom.

[Andrew]

Also, I'll just.

[Blake]

Another point I would make is just real quick if, if you want to. Because they're, they're talking about the whole point of this. Andrew, I don't know if you said is, is that like there was this, like, conspiracy theory that we were all talking about the ballroom because that, like, someone had, like, told us to tweet

[Caboose]

about it or Something group chat and led to it.

[Blake]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That there was like a. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, it was. We were right there with, with. It was actually just so ridiculous. Like you re. You read some of this stuff like yeah, we're all. We're all logged in when you couldn't even have access to like, you know, WI fi. Like we're all in. It's like no men can actually just think independently. That's how it works. But what do you call it if. If you want it to. If you want to keep the focus on security and if you want to keep the focus on political violence and what better way. Free speech, First Amendment. It. Just naming it after Charlie really. I mean, it's so multi layered. It's just so multi layered.

[Andrew]

Also, frankly, they already have renamed the Kennedy center to be the Trump Kennedy center, which is another big events venue. And so I don't think he needs two events venues named after him.

[Caboose]

And by the way, to your point, if you named it the Charlie Charles James Kirk Ball Ballroom, like you're right. I dare the left to try and take his name off that.

[Andrew]

I mean they still might.

[Caboose]

We've got it.

[Andrew]

We are here. Petty vetoing Charles Kirk's highways. But.

[Caboose]

Well, we did just get a roadway in. Was it Westminster?

[Andrew]

I want. I want the loop. I want the loop.

[Caboose]

Well, if Biggs gets into office, I bet we could get.

[Andrew]

We better.

[Caboose]

What do you think?

[Dylan]

No, it will happen immediately.

[Caboose]

The 202. Yeah.

[Dylan]

Everything that got.

[Blake]

Wait, but is that Charles or Charlie?

[Andrew]

I'm not sure. I feel like a road. It's fine being Charlie.

[Caboose]

More formal. Yeah, yeah.

[Blake]

The ball. Yeah. It's a white. It's a White House room. Well, so, so. And, and that's.

[Caboose]

It's.

[Blake]

It's a James Brady press Room, but again, it's the full name. We call it the Brady Press Room where that's what the press briefings happen when they're, you know, when Caroline, of course is I guess off on maternity leave and we're all praying for Caroline, of course, but when she's there it's. And when she's not there, actually it's. It's called the Brady Press Room also because of political violence.

[Caboose]

So a lot of people want to call it the Charles J. Kirk Freedom Hall.

[Andrew]

You know, you want. You want a real thought crime, but

[Caboose]

then they just probably call you on

[Andrew]

a real thought crime. I don't like too many things being just named the Freedom X. It's, it's like a low effort name for things. There's A lot of like, what's a Freedom. It's not a Freedom Hall. It's a ballroom. And just maybe if you named it specifically after. If you said Charles J. Kirk Freedom hall, because that was on his shirt, I could. I could be okay with it. But I think someone even suggested Freedom hall and then it honors both. What I would. I would push back on that Freedom Hall. Then it's just generic. You could call it the Liberty Hall. You could call it the.

[Blake]

I do. Like having Freedom Incorporated. Like maybe. Maybe you use Freedom for like. Like a. You know, like the podium or. Or the stage or like a different part of the. Like this is the Freedom Stage or something like that as like, as like an aspect of it. And then you could have like a Freedom shirt that's put up there. So there are ways to incorporate it that I think would be cool.

[Caboose]

Zeus pedals.

[Blake]

I don't know if I put.

[Caboose]

Has a comment.

[Blake]

Here we go.

[Caboose]

Says, I would love for debate hall at a university to be named after Charles. That's actually a really good idea. Like the. Like the Oxford Debate. You know, I think something where you could create like a.

[Andrew]

Do we have any debate halls here in America that's such a.

[Caboose]

Well, develop one. Yeah, in Charl Charlie's name. Like we could probably get one of those done at what, like Texas A and M or. Or something. I don't know what's the most. Like a Hillsdale one, of course. But what would be like the most prestigious universe you could see this actually happening at?

[Dylan]

Actually happening.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Probably the most respected, most conservative school.

[Caboose]

Like Clemson.

[Dylan]

No, it's probably like a really high state school. But if you create University of Florida or Miami.

[Blake]

Yeah, Georgetown.

[Dylan]

University of Miami.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Caboose]

Why not Georgetown or like George Washington.

[Dylan]

Georgetown. George Washington's way too live.

[Andrew]

A lot of these schools are pretty mercenary. So you get someone to pay for it. They'll probably put up whatever you want.

[Dylan]

Baylor. But Baylor.

[Caboose]

Baylor. Well, Baylor's super lib, though. They've been.

[Andrew]

That's the.

[Dylan]

I mean, but they're historically like their board and things like that are like. Is historically like pretty conservative.

[Caboose]

A and M might be the most.

[Dylan]

Probably that's maybe one of the most conservative private. It probably needs to be at a private school. So, you know, public schools are probably

[Andrew]

the highest ranked academically. Public school in a red state where we could just force it on them would be UT Austin. And UT Austin is live. So they would flip out about this. But it would be funny.

[Caboose]

Yeah, maybe that's the point. You force it and then also.

[Andrew]

But you would. But then people are going to be mad that I said Utah Austin is more distinguished than A and M. So maybe we should just go with A and M. Otherwise all of the cultists will perform a blood eagle on me. And I don't want that to happen

[Caboose]

while we're coming up. Hillsdale. Yeah, Hillsdale would probably be the best, but. Okay, so we talked about this idea of a positive paradox question and there is one that is going wild over the Internet and that is red button versus blue button. Have you heard about this, Tyler?

[Dylan]

Yeah, I look. Okay, I looked at it.

[Caboose]

Blake, give us what is.

[Blake]

I did not hear about this until.

[Caboose]

Until.

[Blake]

Until you guys brought it to. So I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Andrew]

All right. So is the buttons you said.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

All right. Yeah. So this is a question that made the rounds. Let me get throw up the image here so I can look at here. Just gotta find number nine on our stupid list of numbers. So I want to read it. So this is a question that has made the rounds. I don't think it originated with Mr. Beast, but he posted a very high visibility polluterized. It was even going big hit before then. But the question is, it's. Everyone on earth is given secretly a command to push either a red button or a blue button. Red button, blue button. And the stakes are if more than 50% of people push the blue button, everyone in the world survives. If less than 50% of people push the blue button. In other words, if more than half of people push red, only people who pressed red survive. Presented with this choice, which button do you press, Tyler?

[Dylan]

The logical button to push is the red button because you survive no matter what. So that's the logical button,

[Caboose]

the pro social button.

[Andrew]

Pro social button is blue.

[Dylan]

So I actually, I actually there's an argument to say that the blue button is. So if you're. Because this is. This is an interesting thing. Only libs that believe in Agenda 21 stuff that want to eliminate half of society, like because they think that the world is overpopulated, those people would all push red. So like super, super limited.

[Andrew]

It's interesting you're saying that because most people are saying a lot of people that take it. Their take is a lot of people are giving the take. That is the live button.

[Dylan]

I know, I think it's a horseshoe. I think a majority of lives would push it. But I think there's the rat. The most radical libs are pushed red.

[Caboose]

All right, so caboose has this whole thing break it Broken down because people get lost in the language. This is actually what the truth is. You press the blue button, you might die. You push the red button, you definitely won't die. So if you. But this race is that way.

[Blake]

No, no, this isn't. But this, this isn't getting to the heart of the question, though. The heart of the question is what do you think most people will push? Like, like in your. And by the way, is this. Wait, is this world or country world.

[Andrew]

The world. Is the. Is the Mr. Beast typo.

[Caboose]

This is what was the typo. Right.

[Blake]

I need, we need this from the chat. So it's, it's also trying to understand what do you think most people in the world will push, which I think. I think blue wins. If you did a glow. If somehow you did a global poll of this, I think blue wins.

[Andrew]

I think so, Mr. In Mr. Beast poll, blue wins with about. About 56 to 58%.

[Dylan]

The real question, I saw someone post after this, so do all the blue people throw. Do all the blue people throw all the red people in jail afterwards, maybe?

[Blake]

No, this.

[Caboose]

That was what I said yesterday. I said, here's what happens. All the blue people, the blue people will want everybody to hit blue and then when they, when they survive, they take out their guns and they shoot all the people.

[Blake]

Shell says blue, everyone can survive. See, people like Mel Shell are why I'm saying blue will win. I would, I would push red, but I think blue would win. Zeus Petal said, I think everyone survives. Why wouldn't I survive?

[Andrew]

I think blue will win. But more to the point, I think, like, we actually should push blue because I think, I think the world. What we're really voting for is.

[Blake]

Do you want.

[Andrew]

Are we. Well, you're voting for your own survival, but then on top of that, do you want the world where all of the blue pushers have been purged and are dead or are still with us? And I'll be frank, I think the world with all the blue button pushers taken out is a worse one. I think we do not. We have not improved the world. If we take out people who are pro social but not very good at game theory, people who are pro social and not very good at game theory are like the people who make sure that the lights remain on. They are the people. They are the people who put the shopping cart back. They are the people who put the shopping cart back.

[Blake]

Every but.

[Dylan]

But Blake, Every but. This is the point.

[Caboose]

I don't know if I agree with that.

[Andrew]

No, actually on this shopping cart Is a perfect analog. Here's my follow you the people that

[Caboose]

don't put the shopping cart. Everybody else.

[Andrew]

No, definitely not. No put. Leaving the shopping cart out like an animal is the red button push. It's the doing the thing that only helps yourself. And, and you're okay with hurting the rest of society because there's no, there's no harm to you because you'll never be harmed for not putting a shopping cart back. You're just inflicting harm on others.

[Caboose]

I feel conflicted about this.

[Andrew]

You've got to do the pro social thing first. You got to save the blue button. Push.

[Dylan]

But here's the point. The real, the real thing is is. Is more interesting which is what would be the outcome afterwards? Because all of the blue people. I agree with you. I think blues actually wins. But they would come after the red pushers. If it's not private though, how do you know? How do you know it's private? It has to be somewhere.

[Caboose]

There's no fraud in our elections.

[Ethan]

Truly private.

[Dylan]

There's nothing truly private. And so the bigger question is, the better question is would you rather. Would that change your. Your vote if you, if red loses and you get thrown in jail for the rest of your life?

[Andrew]

Slash.

[Dylan]

Or if red, if red wins, all the blue people die.

[Blake]

Says private right there.

[Andrew]

I don't think that's like. I don't know. I think at that point it just makes it easy for blue to win because no one's going to. No one's going to want to vote for the situation of like I might win but just go to prison.

[Dylan]

I think if that was the case though, I think red would win.

[Andrew]

What? Why would red win in the situation where if you push red, Michael, people

[Dylan]

wouldn't want to get thrown in red.

[Andrew]

This is only an interesting hypo. This is only an interesting hypo if like the red. Red is the answer of 100% self interested in terms of your own survival. But then blue is saving other people.

[Caboose]

Would you only have.

[Blake]

But the reds would stop the blues from doing it? Because the reds would be better at fighting.

[Dylan]

Red would definitely be majority Republicans.

[Caboose]

Every.

[Dylan]

Every. Every. But it would also be radical. It would be radical.

[Blake]

I don't think it's anything like the Rhodesian Bush war. What are you talking about?

[Andrew]

Guys? I think like pushing, pushing the blue button is totally like an evangelical megachurch thing to do. Yes.

[Blake]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Gotta save people.

[Dylan]

How many. How many women?

[Andrew]

Yeah, like we gotta have women.

[Dylan]

Like guys, if red won, how many women would be left? There'd be like five men to everyone.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Do you want the future of, like, where everyone's fighting over like a tiny number of women who are also the like nasty red button pusher or super progressive women? Such a battle, everyone.

[Dylan]

Lesbians and men.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Blake]

Just wrote, I'm a nurse and I put away other people's carts. See, I've done it.

[Andrew]

I put away other people's cards.

[Blake]

Liz, Liz, Liz just wrote, I disagree. I'm totally pushing red and I always pick up the shopping cart.

[Andrew]

So pretty much, I think you've got to reconsider. I think. I think you might. You might be dissociating. I would rec. When you think you're pushing away those coffee carts, make sure you're not experiencing a psychotic episode and actually pulling the shopping carts out. And creating

[Blake]

nation. Is saying this to Andrew. Andrew, you. There's a question in the chat as to whether or not Andrew is in fact the hated non grocery cart returner.

[Caboose]

No, no. I put my grocery carts back and it's. I will tell you, it's always a pain because I have to make sure the kids stay in the darn car when I'm like trying to return the grocery and I'm like, buckle up. I want to see all the buckles. So I. No.

[Andrew]

So you've never once. You've never once said, these kids are really annoying. I'm just going to ditch the cart.

[Caboose]

Nope.

[Andrew]

Never once.

[Caboose]

Nope, you're not.

[Andrew]

Would you bet your life on it?

[Caboose]

Our family, like, no joke. I literally put it back. Every time. Every time.

[Dylan]

Every time.

[Caboose]

Don't you look at me like this. When you got bad vibe. You don't know, but you know no back every day. Okay, Okay.

[Andrew]

I believe caboose.

[Caboose]

And I figure you don't. You don't know that I do this, but you. What am I like, just putting you under the microscope?

[Blake]

I paid a guy to follow Andrew around for a month, and I'm sure you did. There were a couple times. There were a couple times. But there were close calls. But he did remember. He did remember a couple close calls, but he remembers.

[Andrew]

I think all of my women friends are pushing red. This. This is making me worried about women. Like, women are being a little ice cold here.

[Blake]

Wait, women are going red there. She.

[Andrew]

Liz claims all the women she knows are red pushers.

[Blake]

Thought crime. So, you know,

[Dylan]

all the depressed people too would push red.

[Andrew]

And then we have Noah, the chaos

[Dylan]

people, the depressed people.

[Caboose]

If it was all. If the red one, you would be end. You would end up with a mix of like very libertarian, like pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. Republican conservative. What jobs would really awful people.

[Dylan]

What job. But here's the point in the chat. Literally every nurse, every firefighter, every police officer for the most part would probably be gone if Red won.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[Blake]

No, not every. Nurses out there that are not okay, that do not have a vast majority

[Dylan]

of them would be gone.

[Blake]

Those nurses would be gone, I hope would be gone. All.

[Dylan]

A lot of them would be gone.

[Blake]

On this. That, that comes to me via. It was from Still Boneless. And he said, he said, you know why like the nurse ratchet type nurses exist? And he said it's because. It's because those types of nurses, their personal lives are so disordered and chaotic and insane that they take it out on their patients. And that's why they're just like so incredibly like tyrannical and unfeeling when it comes to their actual.

[Caboose]

Yeah, I mean it's like probably for the teachers too that I've just mentioned. The really nasty teachers. Teachers like.

[Blake]

Yeah, there's a Venn diagram there, man.

[Caboose]

Yeah. I'm telling you this is what's weird about this question is the overlap of good like amazing people that you would want to be your neighbor, self sustaining, live off the grid, you know, wants to take care of their own community, their own family first and foremost, not the government. You'd get this weird overlap of really good people that are good for the country and really bad people.

[Andrew]

The whole idea of living off the grid that you're not really anyone's neighbor.

[Caboose]

That's what I'm saying. But that doesn't make them a bad person. They just care about their family, their church, the things that. That's close to them. That's. Honestly I have no problem with those people. But there is like a, a concept in Christianity where you're. It's not like pro government coerced socialism. It's. It's voluntary community. Right. It's voluntary brothers taking care of brothers, you know, that kind of thing.

[Dylan]

I just think, I think for. I think without question though, if Red did win it would be predominantly men. We would have a huge lack of women problem. That's the bigger problem that it would not be good. And that would cause, that would cause

[Blake]

is go to the women and be well. No, no actually though. But you look at the chat like we already have the best women pressing red.

[Caboose]

So Sergeant 1978 says as a Christian, you would want to save everyone.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's what I was, I, I argued that too. I was saying if you're gonna argue we should push red. I think you are basically arguing the vast majority of Christian clergy should die if you're saying we should let the blue button pushers die.

[Caboose]

XY guy has a really important point though. Every lawyer Russia a red or blue reset button.

[Dylan]

Every check, every lawyer would be pressing red.

[Blake]

It's usually a guy name. Buttons are always red as well. It was a red where he said just, just give the part a shove and leave.

[Caboose]

Just give what a shove?

[Blake]

Just give the car to shove and to get in the. Get in the car.

[Dylan]

I think what I would do is, I think I would press both buttons at the exact same time and then just live with whatever happened.

[Andrew]

Well, you won't live with whatever happened because if you pressed blue and I won, you would die.

[Dylan]

I would live. I would live with whatever happened until I died.

[Andrew]

By the way, a fun thing with the button. So the button Hillary gave was red and it said paraguushka on it, which does not mean reset. It means overload. They mistreat. They mistranslated it. They messed that one up.

[Caboose]

No, I think,

[Dylan]

I think, I think it means reset.

[Andrew]

Does it though?

[Dylan]

Yeah, it also, it has two meanings. You can, it can mean both things.

[Caboose]

Oh, that's terrible.

[Andrew]

Google lied to me then.

[Caboose]

I have the same question. Kyrie, Kyrie says, why does it seem like 90% of the libtards are either in the medical or the educational field? I literally have the same thought at night again.

[Blake]

It's, it's. That's what I'm telling you.

[Andrew]

It's.

[Blake]

It's this idea that they don't have control over their social lives, their, their individual lives, so they want to seek control over others. Saw this during COVID We saw this with teachers, we saw this with nurses. We saw this with like sortuses and you know, what do you call it? Flight attendants who just put the mask on waitresses in some cases. I'm not saying all of them. I ain't saying all of them, but I'm saying there were a whole lot of petty tyrants out there. And that's exactly what it is. That's what creates the petty tyrant.

[Caboose]

All I know, yeah, all I know is if we, if we, if blue won, they would kill all the reds. But let's just assume, let's just assume

[Andrew]

blues are going to kill all the red.

[Caboose]

I don't think the blues are killing.

[Blake]

Communists do.

[Caboose]

No, no, I know they probably wouldn't. But the point is not.

[Blake]

No it's not a communist thing.

[Andrew]

If the blues could kill all the reds, they could do it now because we're in the reality with all the blue and red people right now.

[Caboose]

Collectivist thing. Okay, so here's the thing. All I'm saying is if you say, say the blues one, and all the reds died, if that's the way this hypo worked, okay. I'm telling you, what you would be left with is like a 50 state, like Democrat majority. That's like without question. So you might get some of the pro social. But this would be how many.

[Dylan]

Good question. With the red blue. If red won, how many members of Congress would go, ooh, that's an interesting question.

[Caboose]

That's actually. You should tweet that all the members

[Blake]

of Congress are, you know, I'm gonna do it.

[Dylan]

It would be like all. It would be like all. Again, it would be the exact. That would actually be a great indicator of like, how society is represented by representative. I think what would happen is you would have a lot of the Dems gone. Definitely all the female Dems except for the psychopaths or the. So, like, AOC is the.

[Caboose]

She'd be gone?

[Dylan]

No, she would be around.

[Caboose]

You think she would pick red?

[Dylan]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Caboose]

Fascinating.

[Dylan]

Talib would pick red.

[Caboose]

See, I would have picked them as

[Dylan]

blues because I said like the Agenda 21, guys.

[Caboose]

Russ, what do you think? I don't know.

[Ethan]

I. I would. I, like I said in the, in the office, I would have picked red.

[Andrew]

You're a red pusher. You're abandoning them.

[Ethan]

I would have pushed red.

[Andrew]

You're abandoning the pro social. The cart put. The cart put backers.

[Ethan]

Like, I get. I get the. I get the Christian angle, but I don't know. I.

[Andrew]

What would Jesus do?

[Ethan]

He probably wouldn't push.

[Caboose]

Be honest. God did not create a world where everybody gets saved but sin also.

[Andrew]

So do you think you'll be saved if you push red?

[Caboose]

I mean, I mean, red is confessing Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

[Andrew]

Say that on the button. It says, I want to save myself and let others die.

[Caboose]

I mean, I'm certainly picking the cross.

[Ethan]

I just. Yeah, I mean, I just don't. I don't trust people.

[Blake]

I don't think pressing red is unchristian.

[Caboose]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's essentially what we're getting at here. Picking red anti Christian. I don't think. Is that against the values of Christ?

[Andrew]

I think it is

[Caboose]

equate that. See, this is where we're. We're missing each other. I. I think Jack hit.

[Blake]

Well, it can be, but it isn't necessarily. It can be. If you want the blue pushers to die, then yes, that would be unchristian. But it could also be that you just want you and your family to live and you think that blue is going to lose. And if that's the case, then you're trying, you're doing so out of trying to save your family and your, your position in it. So again, it, it's a tribal, tribal thing.

[Andrew]

In a weird way, I think it matters.

[Blake]

Comes down to what's in our heart.

[Andrew]

I think it matters. The fact that it's seems pretty clear that blue is ahead in polls but not extremely decisively. So if it was, if ever, if it was like 30% are picking blue and it's like clear that red is going to win, I think it's more acceptable to pick red because you don't really have an obligation to commit suicide here.

[Caboose]

Well, but here's, here's what I'd say. The more people understand this question, the bigger the share of the vote red's gonna get over time, it's way more compelling. It makes way more logic. And then this and then the point

[Blake]

that is self defense.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's like, I mean, I'm thinking of even other ones. You know, they're giving this to everyone. What about every like 6 year old who doesn't get it, they have to push it. And you're just gonna let every six year old pushes the wrong button die?

[Caboose]

No, you got, you got to be the head of your household and take care.

[Blake]

No, that's why I'm telling them to press red.

[Caboose]

It's a secret.

[Andrew]

It's. No, you guys, it doesn't say that. There's. This is all, this is all like appearance to be secret. In the actual hypo boy, more boys

[Dylan]

would pick red than girls and girls

[Blake]

going in there with your children, then you tell your kids, hey, the family's pressing red. We all press red. Make sure you press red.

[Ethan]

Yeah, that's exactly what I would be.

[Dylan]

This is very similar. Have you guys watched Beast Games?

[Ethan]

No, I, I've seen a little bit of it.

[Blake]

I've watched these though.

[Dylan]

I've watched both seasons of Beast Games and there's many games that, that Mr. Beast puts out that actually forces people into these questions.

[Ethan]

And this is why, this is why I don't trust people. I don't trust people because I think at the end of the day people are going to go for their selfish nature, which is going to be to click Red, I don't care. I get that the poll is showing that we're on a trend of blue, but at the end of the day,

[Caboose]

what I'm saying, nature, like, like you've

[Andrew]

seen every selfish nature. You've seen every episode of Beast Lean.

[Dylan]

I've watched both.

[Caboose]

Hold on. One conversation at a. Okay, yeah, I agree with you. I agree. Once you hit 50%, people are gonna start catch getting the memo. Yeah, the. Like, you can. Everybody can get saved. How to all pick red?

[Ethan]

To Tyler's point, Beast Games is a perfect example because the amount of people that it's like, hey, if you don't do anything, if everybody doesn't do anything, you all get money. But if one of you decides to sell out the rest of like your group, you get all of the money. The amount of people who are just like, yeah, I'm out.

[Dylan]

Yeah, it actually doesn't.

[Andrew]

I have.

[Dylan]

But what's interesting, in the show of Beast Games, most of the time I would argue. And again, this is just my recollection, most of the time people actually go with the group, save the group, and they get nothing. They end up with nothing.

[Andrew]

That is why humanity has thrived though. The ability to put the group.

[Dylan]

I'm not saying, I'm not giving, I'm not giving my commentary on it. I'm just saying in the game, most people have lost because of their willingness to save others.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

And the people, the people who have gone out on a limb and taken a couple of games where they can press a button and get a million dollars, but they like sell out like 10 people or like their entire team. This is why Mr. And most don't do that. The few that have, have actually walked away with a million bucks. And, and, and the other 500 or whatever starts on the show, I can't remember how many. I think it's a 500 or 1000. Yeah, they walk with nothing.

[Andrew]

And that is why Mr. Beast is correctly named after the Beast of Revelation, because he is so.

[Ethan]

Liz has a really good point.

[Andrew]

So in evil, if everybody picks red,

[Ethan]

we lose no one.

[Caboose]

That's what I just.

[Andrew]

But they won't. We know that won't happen.

[Ethan]

Okay, but then that's on them, dude.

[Caboose]

I feel like the attribution is not because X. Yeah, but the argument is

[Dylan]

that you lose maybe some of your best people.

[Andrew]

We must protect the people who are pro social but bad at game theory. One final thought of all of this. I wonder if people's opinions are at all affected by the fact that in America, Red States are the conservative ones and blue states are the liberal ones. Because this is always a pet peeve of mine.

[Caboose]

You should flip.

[Andrew]

It is the conservative color everywhere else and it's also a better color and we should have had blue. And I'm annoyed we didn't get.

[Caboose]

I actually made that observation in the SPLC op ed that I wrote this week. I was like, hate crime map for sblc. It's red. Like hate and the Republican Party and

[Andrew]

the Bolsheviks and the red flag. The song.

[Caboose]

Yeah, exactly. All right.

[Blake]

I would just like my. My last take on this is that I. Yeah, I don't get good vibes from Mr.

[Ethan]

Beast.

[Blake]

He gives me Blippi vibes. Tyler knows how I feel about Blippi and just. Just doesn't.

[Caboose]

Allegedly doesn't.

[Blake]

Doesn't have good energy. I don't. I don't think he's in that positive out there and. And yeah, just overtly pagan.

[Dylan]

I, I like where. I like the intrigue. Intrigue that he injects into all the

[Caboose]

videos that he does.

[Dylan]

But I think. I think it's super entertaining.

[Caboose]

So he's. He's definitely talented.

[Dylan]

I don't think he's Mr. I don't think he's Blippi.

[Caboose]

All right.

[Dylan]

Blippi would probably push the red button, by the way.

[Caboose]

All right, Jack. I. Let's go to the other story of the day and that would be Michael Jackson because apparently I was wrong. I was a. I was under the impression that MJ was like that we all assumed he was guilty.

[Andrew]

You just assumed he was guilty. You believed the line.

[Blake]

Jury said he wasn't.

[Caboose]

Yeah, totally. I mean, for real, like, I'll own it complete. I just kind of have been walking around.

[Andrew]

You thought like Michael Jackson was a pedophile just because.

[Blake]

We should present the topic.

[Andrew]

I would just like to know. I would just like to know. Andrew thinks Michael Jackson is a pedophile just because Michael Jackson talked like in a package voice and would invite children over to his house where he had a roller coaster and he would have sleepovers with them totally off the rail in his room where they would sleep in the same bed and he would dose. You think he was a pedophile just because he did that? Andrew, I'm really disappointed in you.

[Caboose]

Well, okay, let's.

[Blake]

So. So hold on, guys. Set the premise as usual. Like that we usually do when we change topics. Context here. Is that so Michael is a new movie that's come out a biopic, as Andrew likes to say. Biopic is just leave me alone. Last Week.

[Caboose]

All right.

[Blake]

Yeah. No, you're not living that down.

[Caboose]

So what are they. Wait, Jack, Jack, what are the. What are the ratings on Rotten Tomatoes? You sent me this. It's like.

[Blake]

Well, well, so it's, it's currently that. I was going to say it's currently the number one movie in the entire world. Rotten Tomatoes was trashing it. Russ is like our Rotten Tomatoes guru, so I think he probably is the actual numbers. But it was one of those ones where it's like the critics are trashing it and the audience loves it.

[Caboose]

Yeah, I mean, that, that happens a lot. I feel like that happens. That happens more than anything popular at this point.

[Ethan]

It's actually kind of funny because I've seen over the last year, like couple years now, Rotten Tomatoes people are just like, nobody listens to Rotten Tomatoes anymore. Nobody listens to screen Rant anymore. And it's kind of funny to watch.

[Dylan]

So the IMDb rating is 7.7 out of 10.

[Caboose]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ethan]

I look at 38.

[Caboose]

Yeah, that's ridiculous. So, Jack, they did not include any of the allegations of pedophilia against Michael Jackson in the film. Isn't that the big controversy here?

[Blake]

Yeah, so the controversy. Well, well, there's, there's actually. Yeah, I mean, just. Yeah, it's that the easiest way to sum it up is that. Yes. So they cut the movie because the family was involved with creating the movie. And so they say, oh, the family is, you know, too much control, etc. Etc. But it's like, well, if they're putting up money and they're involved in the movie, then why wouldn't they, you know, have any control? I mean, it's kind of a silly argument, but, but, but they were saying that you can't, like, you're not allowed to like this movie because it wasn't a critical enough lens on Michael Jackson. And the. Yeah, Angelo, you know, Angelo says he Rotten Tomatoes is still good. Just do the opposite of what.

[Ethan]

Because, because to Jack's point, what the critics say. Yeah, yeah. Because to Jack's point, the audience scores a 97%.

[Caboose]

Dang. So it's like, well, it's a well done standard.

[Blake]

There are still occasions where the, where the, you know, the ratings are the same. But I don't, I don't derail this. But. So I wanted to take this in another direction because obviously the, the audience is like, we don't care. We like Michael Jackson and we love the songs. And there is a jukebox, you know, kind of element to this where it's like there's a lot of recreations of him performing, you know, also when he's, you know, younger with the Jackson 5. And then when he's older in his solo career, you know, the first moonwalk, like the first time he played Billie Jean or, you know, it ends with the bad tour and he's going up on stage. The Thriller movie music video sequence, when they're doing like the short film, etc. Is in there and can't help, you know, the audience is like, we don't care. But I want to do. I actually was like, guys, let's do this. And so I kind of Leroy Jenkins did on. On Twitter this week and I'm like, I'm just gonna come out and say it. I don't, I don't ever think that Michael Jackson was gu. I've never thought this in my entire life. I followed many of the cases, you know, as in real time, as they were live. And it's. I'm sorry, I just never passed.

[Caboose]

I'm curious, Tyler, did you think. Did you just sort of like assume he was guilty?

[Dylan]

Yeah, I grew up thinking that for sure.

[Caboose]

Blake, you did it never.

[Andrew]

I mean, I'm not obsessive true crime junkie. And I will admit with, as they say, where there's smoke, there's fire and it's like a gigantic smoke machine just constantly spewing fumes. And yet I will say, I think with Michael, what stands out is Michael Jackson is actually so weird and the fact pattern around is so strange. I'm much more open to the defense, which is he's not a molester. He actually is just a weirdo. And what stands out in this, as well as some other high profile cases where people were assumed guilty and then it was walked back, is a lot of the people, until they actually had a very strong financial incentive to claim otherwise, said nothing happened. And so they'll come out and they'll say, oh, this person who was around all the time says Michael molested him. Oh, by the way, he wants $25 million.

[Caboose]

Yep. Caboose made a good point. Said I assumed he was guilty after that leaving Neverland doc. And I think that was kind of a big turning point for.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I was gonna. Yeah, I assume he was. I assumed he was guilty just based off of growing up.

[Blake]

Based off of documentary though, has been like really, really criticized in terms of like did so many things in terms of stuff they pulled out. I mean, it's basically like a true crime podcast about Michael Jackson falling into the Same lies and half truths and misrepresentations that pretty much all of the true crime genre is, is known for.

[Caboose]

Because we don't want. I was gonna say, what was that one about the, the guy in Wisconsin, the, the killer making a murderer? Yeah, that one was like so compelling, if that's all you watched, that this guy was innocent. But then there was, there was like a whole other side of the story that wasn't covered. Yeah.

[Blake]

So Scott Adams actually talked about. Was it called Leaving Neverland? Right. I keep want to say Finding Neverland because that's the other movie about how the Peter Pan series was created. But yeah, it's a really good movie actually. But the, the line was that Scott Adams had years ago, I guess when he had watched this was that you have to beware the documentary effect. And when he said the documentary effect is this, that when you watch a documentary, typically they take one side of the story and they just ride that side all the way home rather than giving you a, you know, a two sided view on things. And typically those are more popular and those get a lot of clicks and a lot of views and then, you know, and they're very persuasive. But you could then go and watch a counter documentary right after that and be just as persuaded, like Andrew, like you were saying about the making of a murderer, that actually that documentary was full of crap because there was a whole bunch of information they didn't include. And I'll actually give you guys a great example of this that I just know about from my own life. Do you guys remember Tiger King?

[Caboose]

Yeah. Yeah. You don't?

[Andrew]

I didn't watch it.

[Caboose]

I've never.

[Andrew]

I know it. Exactly.

[Blake]

I said, do you remember it? I didn't say if you watched it.

[Caboose]

I said, do you remember it was like a cultural phenomenon. It's like a Covid one.

[Andrew]

Yes, yes.

[Blake]

You watched it, right?

[Andrew]

Everyone else was. Everyone was watching it during COVID I did not know it existed for several months after the big meme. I was totally out of the loop and instead I was reading a bunch of books. I read, I read a bunch of spy novels.

[Caboose]

But see.

[Blake]

Okay, okay, okay, but, but point being is everybody watched Tiger King. It was a huge cultural phenomenon and everybody thought like this guy shouldn't have been in jail and that Carl basically killed her husband and they thought all these terrible things. Right. Well, I actually happened to be in Oklahoma in 2020 later on, and I said, with the guys I was with for reporting for OAN at the time, I was like, hey, we should actually check out the exotic, you know, tiger place and see what it's actually like. And I got to tell you guys, when I got there, I did not realize how small it was. And I did not realize that, like, he was keeping those tigers and whatever they did with that documentary to make each of the pens and enclosures look so much bigger.

[Andrew]

It's just.

[Blake]

It was all fake. These things were actually really small. Tigers are being kept enclosures that were, like, smaller than a closet where they. Some of them were so small they couldn't even stand up all the way. And I'm sitting there going like, yeah, Carol Baskins has a point, man. Carol Baskins totally has a point. And I felt like Netflix totally lied to me about that. Carol Baskins, like, those were not good conditions.

[Caboose]

Remembering, like, Florida. Was Florida a part of this story or is.

[Blake]

I think anything.

[Ethan]

Carol Baskins was full.

[Andrew]

I think any story involving people collecting and raising tigers and other exotic animals is spiritually Floridian, regardless of where takes place.

[Caboose]

Okay, am I weird for kind of just getting weirded out by zoos in general? I mean, I go to them with my kids, but, like, there's a part of me where I'm just like, this makes me sad. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, animals.

[Andrew]

They should be able to see animals at the zoo.

[Dylan]

I sometimes feel that way about house pets.

[Caboose]

Before we.

[Blake]

Before we go too off of this, though, there is still this, like, huge. And I don't want to go through, like, every claim again. Michael Jackson that's been made, etc. Etc. That. That, you know, it's. He settled the first 1 in 93 and thinking that, oh, if I just pay to make this go away, that it, like, the story will go away. But unfortunately, when he paid that that kind of made the story bigger because people are saying, oh, he paid because he did something.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Blake]

As opposed to him thinking, oh, if I throw money at this, it's going to go away. So then other accusers came out, and eventually it led to actually charges in Andrew, as you should know, in Santa

[Andrew]

Barbara, I think one and a whole

[Blake]

case that, you know, probably took place while you were there.

[Andrew]

A. Take that, Angela. Something Angela pointed out that I found interesting. It's just. It's worth remembering. This is one of the. This is kind of the first big child sexual abuse scandals involving a celebrity. And really just making it a big story in general because. And so as a result, it sets the template that we've seen. And so as an example, Michael really was the kind of guy who, yeah, he would try to pay people to make it go away. And I think today there'd be a lot more awareness that, oh, paying someone $10 million is 100% going to, like, make me look guilty. And that wasn't the way he would think about it in the early 90s. This is before the Internet. This is before we have super refined advanced lawsuit culture. And so, yeah, he fell into that trap of thinking that that would work because it was an earlier time and this drax, more accusers.

[Blake]

Yeah, to your point, this was like, I don't know if it was exactly concurrent, but right around the same time as like the O.J. trial. So this was sort of the rise of your tabloid culture. This is what the Kardashian. That's what the Kardashians came from, obviously, being that their father was one of OJ's lawyers and was like, possibly intimately aware in the case, which we should probably get into at some point. But it was, it was right around that time that tabloids were just having a feeding frenzy and they sick all of them on Michael Jackson. And so people have been saying that. Yeah, and Tangela's point, this was like the first cancel culture. It was like the first iteration of cancel culture to say, oh, my gosh, we can get this guy. And so, you know, but is the theory.

[Caboose]

Is the theory that. So he does the settlement and then he goes on Oprah becomes even bigger or whatever, and then all these other people came out of the woodwork because they may have had some connection to Michael and they were just completely motivated by money. And that's why there was multiple.

[Andrew]

There's a lot of that. And I think the also.

[Blake]

Well, the parents.

[Andrew]

There was like a. Yeah, the parents. And there's like a. The sort of cancel culture also this weird, let's call it what it is, sort of bully sighting of, of Michael. I remember it was just the biggest running joke in the world that he, you know, for example, he had the white skin and a lot of people thought, oh, he might have bleached it. He might have been.

[Caboose]

All that was the big rumor.

[Andrew]

And the really sad thing is, is it appears to be genuinely the case. He just had a bad medical condition that, you know, was turning his skin white.

[Caboose]

He also had all the nose.

[Blake]

I always say it wrong. It's, it's, it's, it's vitiligo, something like that.

[Andrew]

And then a reason he would make his skin white is basically, you either look like a splotchy disaster or you make your skin as white as the whitest parts on it.

[Blake]

Yeah, there's. There's a couple of photos you can find of. Of him. I don't know. I don't know if we want to look for one, but where you can see that. So when he's younger, this is why he wore the glove, by the way, because when he was younger, it started in his hands first, and so he wore the one glove because his one hand was turning white. That's why he wore the glove. And he was like, want to put this on? Then later, it was like the fingertips. So that's why you'll see pictures with him and he has, like, the tape over the fingertips. You know, he turned it into this, like, fashion statement, and it was actually, like, you know, obviously very iconic, but it was because of this skin disorder. But then later in life, he ended up getting so, like, so white in terms of the skin color that you can see blotches of, like, dark, like, brown blotches on his arms and stuff, where the rest of it is just naturally pale. And to your point, Blake, it's actually very sad. And that's why he had to, you know, wear or, you know, have, like, umbrellas when he went out and things like that. He couldn't even go into the sun.

[Caboose]

So I still remember.

[Ethan]

I actually, weirdly enough, I remember my mom watching that Oprah interview. She was always watching Oprah. And so I was like, my brother and I would always catch, like, whatever Oprah interview that she had on. And I still remember when a couple of the ones that she had Michael on.

[Caboose]

I see some of the people in the chat are saying, I remember when Michael's hair burnt during a Pepsi ad. I'm sort of like these vague.

[Blake]

That's in the movie.

[Caboose]

Oh, is it okay?

[Blake]

Yeah, yeah. They do a huge thing in that. In the movie. It is like. Like they show. It's graphic. They show everything. There's two graphic scenes for anyone seen the movie. The one. There's one scene where they definitely show him getting whipped. Belt whipped by his dad, which is, you know, pretty well known that he was. That he was beaten, father was abusive. And many people say that this is kind of the reason for his later behavior in life, that he just sort of had this stunted childhood. He had the physical abuse in childhood. Also something that people don't know is that his dad would book the Jackson 5 to play in strip clubs in addition to other places. So he was present, you know, as a young kid, you know, 10 years old, and he's being put in these strip clubs. And so for, you know, some of the later behavior, to Blake's point, which. Which is obviously, you know, abnormal. It.

[Andrew]

It's.

[Blake]

It's. It's more of this, like, childlike, you know, psychology that, you know, comes arrested development.

[Caboose]

It's like a rest development, literally. I think it's.

[Ethan]

I think it's so.

[Blake]

And then the other. The other physical scene is that they. They show his hair setting getting set on fire. And I didn't realize that he had an entire patch of the back of his head, like, basically just burned off. And they told him that you're never going to be able to grow skin back there again. You ever get hair back? And then there's a scene where, you know, obviously foreshadowing where the doctor says, hey, I can prescribe you painkillers. You're going to need them.

[Caboose]

So that's ultimately what end up killing him if you look.

[Blake]

And that's kind. Well, it's. Yeah, it's like what set him on the path. Right.

[Dylan]

I think.

[Blake]

Well, the doctor got. The doctor killed him. Got involuntary manslaughter, by the way. He was convicted.

[Ethan]

Well, like, growing up, I think it's so interesting that specifically around Michael Jackson. Like, I remember growing up and like, the narrative was that he hated his skin color and was trying to become white.

[Caboose]

Yeah. And he was bleaching his skin and then he was trying to look more white, which is why I got all the nose jobs. Yeah.

[Ethan]

And then now you, like, now you start to realize, like, there was actual, like, he had actual, like, like stuff that was going on. And then he had.

[Andrew]

There was.

[Ethan]

What's the word? My dad had a vitarago or whatever.

[Andrew]

My dad had a favorite line that he would repeat. I can't imagine he came up with it originally.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

The joke was, only an American you be. Can you be born a poor black boy and die a rich white woman?

[Caboose]

I think I've heard.

[Ethan]

But no, I thought. I thought that was such an interesting.

[Blake]

That joke was around a lot. That was. Yeah, I definitely heard that before.

[Ethan]

Having gotten older and like, actually looking into the games, I thought that was always really just fascinating how he was

[Caboose]

always pretty quiet about it. Like, he didn't really weigh in and set the record straight too much.

[Dylan]

I. I think Michael Jackson.

[Blake]

That's. That's possibly would have been a better, like, from a PR strategy, you know, to kind of like, maybe just have somebody go out and talk about that.

[Caboose]

Right.

[Blake]

And maybe these days that might be more of what someone would do.

[Caboose]

Right.

[Dylan]

I think that, I mean, look at the last 40 years in American pop culture. I mean the guys who have become mega, mega superstars. Madonna, Britney Spears, you could put Kanye in there, Michael Jackson, they've all had like horrifically bad stuff happen to them. Because I think the amount of pressure and mental fatigue that is created by creating icons like these people, I mean, Elvis destroys them. I mean, if drugs doesn't get you,

[Ethan]

well, yeah, but like, but to your point, like, even out, like Elvis was pushed there, like, yeah, there's like a lot of these guys and a lot

[Dylan]

of those people like die early death because of drugs and partying. And that's a different category of person in my mind. The person that I'm looking at is like the person that's surrounded by so many people constantly and is made into like this almost like godlike pop culture figure. And they like, no human being is capable of like, I don't think, I don't think anyone really is capable of over overcoming that situation. And I think I actually Michael Jackson, to me, you know, he's probably a weird guy that was created in that, in that light, in that vein. But I kind of feel bad, like me, for me, like, I kind of feel bad for Michael Jackson in the same way that I kind of feel bad for Kanye West.

[Caboose]

Yeah, but unless he actually did. Did a little kids.

[Dylan]

No, no, I know. And that's like the caveat, right? Like, of course, like if he's, if he's a criminal, but if he's not a true criminal, he's just a weird person that like said weird things and was weird around people and did and like kind of screwed, like screwed up at. Felt like at the worst possible moments and didn't handle those things correctly.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Like again, I think Kanye west is actually the most similar person in modern culture to that. Not in the same, in the exact same personality type way, but in the, in the way it's like there's nothing that he could do. He was kind of crafted into this like this social pressure situation. And of course he said and done some things that are really stupid and like made him look really bad. But there was like no win for him to come out of that.

[Caboose]

So this is interesting and I kind

[Dylan]

of feel that way about Michael Jackson.

[Caboose]

Faz has a good, interesting timeline. So he does the Oprah interview. Would you say it was the 14 year silence?

[Blake]

Yeah.

[Caboose]

So no interviews, just his music. Lets that speak for itself. Six months later comes the first accusation. And so Faz is saying, because he Looked weak, so people thought they could take advantage.

[Ethan]

90 million people watched.

[Caboose]

90 million people watched it. That's interesting. Wow, that's. That's an interesting. That's an interesting insight.

[Ethan]

Wow.

[Blake]

No, and that's what I'm saying, though, that it was like the OJ Trial in the sense that it. Because this. This was the era of 3, 6, and 10. And, you know, there were. There were only a couple of channels. Everybody watched them. Like, it's hard to explain how big Oprah was back then and how big just broadcast TV was, because that's all you had. There was nothing else. So that. That's why we had a monoculture in the 90s, for many reasons. That's why we had so many of these things, because everybody was centered around television. And there's. There's, like, a bigger media story here as well. And Michael Jackson dominated on television. There's no question. And. And then eventually mtv, which gave rise to that. And so this. None of this is in the film, by the way. So the film stops, right? You know, I want to say, like, 1989, 1988, give. Give or take. So it stops right before the 90s, when all. All of, like, this happens, where he gets propelled into, like, insane levels of superstardom. But also that, you know, these. These hits start coming. But it does, I think, for a lot of people, it resets the narrative on Michael Jackson by going all the way back to when he's a kid, showing that he did have this abusive. Showing that when, you know, when he talked about, hey, I had this Neverland because I wanted to recreate my lost childhood, that. Which. Which is a huge piece, right? So they show him, like, reading Peter Pan when he's a kid, and then he eventually gets Bubbles the monkey, and he's like, reading it to Bubbles, and as he gets older, he's like, talking about it over and over, of him trying to find Neverland, that, you know, the land where you never grow up, and then eventually he creates it himself. And I should just say this while we're on here that, you know, Macaulay Culkin. Macaulay Culkin, who was famously friends with him at the time, has always defended him, has always publicly defended him, and I believe, testified on his behalf under oath that, you know, he was there and nothing ever happened.

[Caboose]

All right, But Jack thought crime.

[Blake]

Thought crime.

[Caboose]

What if Macaulay Culkin was guilty?

[Blake]

Yeah, what about that, Jack?

[Andrew]

No, no.

[Blake]

He was a kid.

[Caboose]

Two childhood stars. A kid capable weirdness.

[Andrew]

A kid who I will know is capable of building A well engineered trap engine, trap house to like take out adult men who like tortures with blowtorches and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Caboose]

Totally normal micro machines and broken Christmas ornaments. Yeah. You know.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Caboose]

Come on now.

[Blake]

No, I almost wonder I would even go so far and I tweeted something about this earlier this week where I said, you know, in a way and what I was getting at was that I wonder if Michael was trying to reach out to, you know, child stars like a Macaulay Culkin to say hey, you're, you're be. You're blowing up the same way I did when I was a kid. But maybe I can get you out of those bad situations that I was in and like here's a place you can come where none of that stuff is going to happen and they can't get to you from here. And, and let me try to get you off of that train because you know, go, go look at some of the other 90s kid stars. My gosh. You know, you could go down the list of you know, like Lindsay Lohan and others that where you know, just, just Amanda Bynes, Amanda Binds.

[Caboose]

That's who I was thinking.

[Blake]

So many problems is a good happen that of, of child stars from, from pretty much the same era or just a little bit thereafter.

[Dylan]

Now Ariana Grande is going down that

[Andrew]

before we, before we know.

[Dylan]

No, she's crazy.

[Caboose]

Okay.

[Blake]

And she same show, right? Wasn't. Wasn't Ariana Grande also on a Nickelodeon show?

[Dylan]

She was on a Nickelodeon show, yeah.

[Caboose]

Hey guys, we're running out of time here.

[Andrew]

Well, before we run out of time, did you know that there's a Michael Jackson arcade game where you have to save children from like pedophile? Yes, there is. Let's throw it up. Let's throw up that image I posted in Dark. I mean, let me move it over to production. This is a real, a real image from it.

[Caboose]

It's a really small, literally Moonwalker. Yeah.

[Andrew]

It's called Michael Jackson Walker.

[Blake]

Great.

[Andrew]

Every single level you have to, there's a bunch of kids, they've been abducted by these fat middle aged looking white guys who are like creepy looking. And you have to beat up those guys and rescue the kids. And when you, when you touch, when you touch the kids in the game, you walk over them, they'll be like, thank you, mj.

[Blake]

You save them.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, you save, you save the kids.

[Caboose]

So it's like a big, the Sega

[Blake]

version of this a lot.

[Andrew]

The ending, the ending screen of this game says what about the children that he saved? Well, they're smiling because deep down in their hearts, they know that Michael will return one day to share with them another wondrous and magical adventure.

[Caboose]

That's disgusting. All right, all right. So last thing. Last thing. We're all gonna try and watch Animal Farm. I believe this is the last thing. And then we'll. We'll go, well, yeah, but we're gonna.

[Blake]

We're gonna. We're gonna review it next week because.

[Caboose]

Yeah, we're gonna review it next week.

[Andrew]

So I don't believe in trash in a movie before.

[Caboose]

No, I'm not going to trash it. And so here's what I will say. I called because we've worked with Animal Farm, or, sorry, Angel Studios for years. The guild approves all the projects, so you have to greenlight with the guild. The guild voted for it, which is interesting. And, like, a lot of our audience are members. They didn't make it. They distributed it. And by the way, I'm told Seth Rogen will not. He is. Will not promote the film once angel got involved. Which is fascinating.

[Ethan]

Which makes sense. Which makes sense being Seth Rogen.

[Caboose]

Yeah. Okay.

[Blake]

So Angel Studio is distributing it, but they didn't make it.

[Caboose]

Right, right. So the thing I found out, though, is that they did tweak the ending a little bit to, like. I guess they. In an attempt to make it a little bit more thematically with what? The original controversy here.

[Blake]

What's the controversy?

[Caboose]

The controversy is that it is actually a critique on capitalism where the original is a critique on communism. So they flipped the roles. But I'm told that it's a. It's the. The. The. The guild voted for it because there was an assumption that it was a critique on just corruption in general. But I'm not gonna. I. I'm gonna have to see it.

[Andrew]

I'll have to see it.

[Caboose]

And I read.

[Andrew]

I've read Animal Farm relatively recently.

[Dylan]

So.

[Blake]

Yeah, I mean, I've read the book. I don't even know how many times. I mean, it's. It's so great.

[Caboose]

Yeah.

[Blake]

Well, I'm just saying. I mean, no, Russ, it's real short. Like, you could literally read it.

[Ethan]

No, I read it. I read it all four years in high school. I don't know, as a homeschooler, they're

[Caboose]

like, hey, there's nothing.

[Ethan]

Yeah, so I read it four times.

[Caboose]

Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna watch it at the. Yes, we will. I'll get a screener for the team. So I literally heard we're gonna talk about this, and I was like, you know, What? What is it? All I know is that Angel Studio does a lot of good stuff. Can they miss sometimes? Absolutely. I'm gonna go into this with an open mind. And if they missed and it is like a crap movie that totally bastardized it. Like a lot of people are saying, I will be the first to admit it.

[Ethan]

I'm interested.

[Caboose]

But I also don't think, you know, listen, it's just show. You got to have a little creative license in this, in this business. And they probably missed on this, but I don't know. We'll see.

[Blake]

I will, I will go into it with open, with open eyes. I have, you know, I like to come as everybody knows, I like to have my own opinion on things, especially films. And you know, I don't always overt.

[Andrew]

And he's often wrong.

[Caboose]

Wait, overtly capitalist.

[Blake]

All at all.

[Ethan]

At 2 times speed, I think.

[Blake]

Yeah. Everything at 2x.

[Caboose]

Why.

[Blake]

Why would you waste time?

[Caboose]

Yeah, exactly. All right, so we are going to give you a review of Animal Farm because it's been a big kerfuffle. Tim Pool is very upset about this adaptation of the. Of the film and we'll see if he's right. I haven't watched the screener yet and in.

[Blake]

In fairness, I will say I did try to track down. Russ and I were. Were chatting about this this week. We tried to track down like an advanced screener of it. Weren't able to get one. So we will. We'll have to wait and report back.

[Caboose]

Yeah, apparently the guy that directed it is like pretty left Andy Circus. He's gone.

[Blake]

The star of Lord of the Rings is super left. Wow. So the star of Lord of the Rings is super left.

[Andrew]

Sorry, I can't hear you, Jack.

[Caboose]

Amazing music.

[Ethan]

Amazing music is really drowning it out.

[Andrew]

So.

[Blake]

So the main guy from Lord of the Rings is super to the left. Wow, that's crazy. And he's ruining like a famous anti communist main guy from the story.

[Caboose]

Wow, that's.

[Dylan]

I wonder how gay Animal Farm's gonna be.

[Ethan]

Oh, no. I need to get off the show.

[Caboose]

All right, that wraps this up. Jack, it's been a good show. You want to take us home, ladies

[Blake]

and gentlemen, Go out there and commit more thought crime.

[Caboose]

It's sometime in the future the ultimate challenge. Crossfire,

[Blake]

crossfire.

[Caboose]

You get caught.

[Blake]

Crossfire, crossfire. Crossfire. Crossfire, Crossfire, crossfire, crossfire.

[Caboose]

You'll get caught up in it.