← Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec
Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec
THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 91 — The Epstein Hoax? Somali Mayors? Bowling Alone?
01:48:20
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- [00:00]
Jack Posobiec
From the age of Big Brother.
- [00:03]
Blake Neff
If they want to get you, they'll get you.
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Tyler Boyer
DNSA specifically targets the communications of everyone they're collecting.
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Blake Neff
Your communications. All right, folks. Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard to this week's edition of Thought Crime. We're doing things a little bit different this week, of course. Today is Thought Crime. Thursday came early because we're all committing thought crimes apparently all the time. And unfortunately, Charlie Kirk committed so many thought crimes that he has been put in Thought Crime Time out. So unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, depending on your, your outlook, you are here and you have to deal with the rest of the Thought Crime crew. So we've got all the rest of the four of us here. We've got myself, Jack Sobic, got producer Andrew, and we've got Blake Neff and Tyler Boyer. What's up, guys? So we're doing things a little bit early this week. And the reason that we are doing this early this week is because, of course, course, all the news about Epstein. Yes, the curious case of Jeffrey Epstein, this case where, you know, we think it's done, we think it's more is coming out. We think that it's been settled. Oh, wait, it's not settled. And then, you know, one day a bunch of us get invited to the White House and we get told that there's going to be a phased release and then we get told there is no release, etc. Etc. That's kind of where things are at, though, interestingly enough. And so as we are live right now, and there is an interview that was pre recorded between President Trump and John Solomon that's gonna come out later, I think in about two hours time for where we are right now. And in that President Trump and I've spoken to John Solomon about this, that President Trump is going to come out and embrace a special prosecutor not just for sort of the Russiagate stuff and the various hoaxes related to that, but also one that he wants to have on Epstein. And this is something that is going to come out in just a few hours. So one special prosecutor for really looking into all of this stuff that goes back, you know, even probably before 2016. But that's where we're at. President Trump had a truth up earlier today and well, everything has broken loose. Blake, maybe you want to bring us all up to speak.
- [02:43]
Andrew Klavan
All right. I mean, a lot of stuff has happened over the last few days. It's been escalating and kind of what's, you know, you can see below the subhead, the Epstein hoax and that is the label that has currently been given to the entire story by the President of the United States himself. He said on Truth Social this morning he says it is the Epstein hoax and he says it's in a lineage with the Russia hoax, the Hunter Biden hoax, really the Hunter Biden narrative, that it was a hoax or double hoaxes within hoaxes here. But he basically says it's into this whole stream Jack Smith stuff, all of these come together and that the Epstein case is one of these things. And he actually says, if you are a supporter of mine, you will reject all of this and stop talking about it and have it all go away. I think we can all say, having talked to various members of the base, there are certainly a lot of people who are not going to let this go away. I do think that it is probably an issue that resonates the most with highly online, highly engaged, like people who are really wrapped up in the media narrative of things. I don't think it matters as much to probably like, I don't imagine my parents are closely following this, for example, and, you know, they're big Trump supporters, of course. But I do think more people care about it than, you know, the President said in his truth post.
- [04:08]
Blake Neff
Hey, Blake, do you think, do you think. Actually, let me throw that out. Is this one of those issues as well where it's sort of. There's a split and I'll open this up for everyone, where there's sort of a split based on where you get your news from, where your primary source of news is. Whereas. So for people who are on social media, people who are tracking that, you know, this is a huge issue. This is obviously been dominating what, like almost the. Has it been two weeks? I think it's almost been two weeks since the, that memo came out on July weekend, or I guess a week and a half at this point. And, and in a way that it's just not really penetrated until just now, cable news.
- [04:51]
Jack Posobiec
Well, I have a feeling on that. So, I mean, somebody who interacts with the media as part of my day job, they basically told me that there was no there there. And so they're not going to ask a question about something that they consider to be a conspiracy theory. But they quickly betrayed the pat answer that I was receiving when they saw that MAGA and the base was upset about this issue and they wanted more transparency and answers. So they are giddily covering the fact that there is discontent in the MAGA base and that Trump is at odds with his base or whatever. So the While they won't cover the actual substance of the story to any degree, they will cover that there is a split between the base and the president, seemingly tonally at the top.
- [05:41]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah, it seems like that's the story that's built on the story. So it's. Now it's more of a story talking about the infighting than it is about actually the substance, like Andrew's alluding to with Epstein. But I thought it was really interesting. I think CNN came out with a poll that said, like, 97% of Americans care about Epstein.
- [05:59]
Andrew Klavan
So they say that. I think I'm going to. So this is going to be the hour where I just make all the people watching really angry because, you know, I'm going to be what blue pill Blake? Is that. Is that what I'm going to be this time?
- [06:11]
Jack Posobiec
The contrarian, like you were. If you were an ancient king, you would have been Blake the contrarian, something like that?
- [06:17]
Blake Neff
Well, I do.
- [06:18]
Andrew Klavan
An ancient king. Yeah.
- [06:19]
Blake Neff
Maybe Blake before, reincarnated. Before we dig into that, you know, let's. Let's. So this. This Quinnipiac poll just dropped, and I think we're all looking at it right now. It says 63% of voters disapprove of the Trump administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files. Quinnipiac University national poll finds nearly half of voters would consider joining a third party, not just one created by Musk. Okay, that's a separate question. And it said only 17% of voters say that they approve of the way Trump is handling his. The Epstein files. And there's just a comment from the analyst, and he says Epstein has been dead and gone for years, but his tawdry legacy looms large in a country wanting to know more about who he knew and whether secrets have been buried with him. It also gets into Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino, and Cash Patel. So I want to go to Blake here. Blake, when you. When you look at stuff like this, let's talk about not just the case itself, because I feel like the story has become even bigger than that. It's the handling of all of this. And, you know, I'm a little biased. Obviously, I disapprove of the handling of it, but because in the way that I've been wrapped up in all of this and the way that the focus has become on binders and influencers and meetings and all this nonsense rather than actually getting to the facts. But, Blake, what is your sense of all this? And has the handling of this been what's riled this up?
- [07:50]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah, so let's go back to what the original assertion is in the leaked memo and in subsequent statements. The statement is basically, epstein did kill himself. He wasn't murdered. Epstein didn't have a blackmail list. There's no file of, like, who he was blackmailing. And basically, we don't have additional crimes we can prosecute. All we have is the stuff that was committed by Epstein and by Maxwell, which, like, they had. They had illegal, you know, child videos. But it was just normal. It was like normal abuse. I don't want to say normal, but it was just, like, stuff they could have downloaded off the Internet. It was not, like, made by themselves, is what they say. And so there's basically no one to prosecute. There's no deeper hidden thing here. This is a pervert who died, and he is still dead. He can't be punished anymore. And that's all there is to it. And I think where they erred is that they didn't appreciate that this was going to. For lack of a better term, it's gonna disappoint people. There's a good portion of people out there, especially the ones who follow it most avidly, who they really believe that. That there is, like, there is something to the Epstein story that could be exposed, that there are important individuals, whether in intelligence or in finance or in politics, Hollywood, who were involved in this sort of, like, sordid elite sex ring. And they were either just enthusiastic participants or they were kind of entrapped and then blackmailed by Epstein. And there's something that could be revealed here and that it's not being revealed as sort of emblematic of, like, how powerful, powerful people can be protected in America. So I'll just go with, let's assume that Cash Patel and Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi and the President, of course, are all correct in telling the truth. And I think we generally do trust these people that there actually isn't anything to this. They had to appreciate this was gonna disappoint people and sort of let them down easily. And the way you do that is you have to kind of come in and say, all right, guys, we're going to lay it all out for you here. I would have gotten Dan Bongino. I would have had him really study everything we had for, you know, dedicate a good few days, maybe a few weeks to getting ready for this. Then you come out in the press conference and you're like, all right, everyone, you've got me for five hours if you need me. And here is what we looked for here's what people have said would exist. And we looked for this, and actually that doesn't exist. All we found was this. We want to dispel some myths. Hit me with all the questions and you do your best to come out with maximal transparency. Where the misfire happened on this was dump it on Sunday night, saying this is nothing, don't ask us about it, and getting angry when people ask about it. That is, to the people who care about this, that is the polar opposite of what you want to do. That is essentially aggressively shouting like you have something to hide, even if you don't. It's just. It's a pure strategy thing here. You should have handled this in terms of communication strategy differently if you wanted to make sure people wouldn't get upset about it.
- [11:07]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah, I think the problem that most people I'm seeing have with everything is, again, this is similar to the way that the media is handling it, is the way that the administration's handling it. And then the rings that are around the administration. So right now you kind of have laid out the situation where it's, you know, there's clearly something there that the general public doesn't know about. So, like, let's start from the baseline position. And I don't know where Jack wants to jump in on this, but there's a. There is a nucleus of information that exists with Epstein that people don't know about and the fact that everybody doesn't know about it. And the jump to conclusions is like, well, there's a bunch of fake stuff and there's a bunch of things that are hoaxes, and there's a bunch of. There's hoaxes on hoaxes. Right? I think that's what's bothering people so much. It's like, well, okay, well, explain what the heck is going on then, if there are problems that exist, right? Because that's not the way that it's been framed this entire time. And everyone from the President to people within the administration, to the rings, again around the President, because there's layers to the President. There are organizations, there are people who have supported the President, there are people who work in the administration, people outside the administration, who have all said the same things for many years now. And there just needs to be a really strongly curated PR layout of absolutely everything. What is accessible, what's not accessible, why, what did happen, what didn't happen, why they think it is. And the President's team could do that, right? They could come out and say, here are all the things that we thought were True that we don't know or are not, because this is what we have access to now. I think that's probably what's driving most of the issue. And now the fight that is occurring are people that are kind of in those layers having to say, well, I'm defending what I don't know, or I'm arguing against what I don't know. And the problem is right now is that it's like everybody's fighting each other. It's like they're going to battle without really knowing what jersey they're wearing when they show up. And then they don't even know what weapons the other guys are gonna bring. And so they're fighting battles with, you know, bringing knives to gunfights and guns to knife fights and bazookas to knife fights. Right. So, like, that's kind of what Twitter is in general. That's what X is, and that's kind of where we are in real life now. And the problem is someone's got to clean all that up. So, again, when you have BLM burn down Minneapolis, someone still has to go clean up Minneapolis and rebuild it. That's kind of where we're at right now, is where we have some bazookas and knife fights type situation. There's just a crater there now. Someone's got to clean that up at some point. And most of the people who are doing the work and trying to win the election next year are going to have to do that. I think it's incumbent upon many of us to realize, like, hey, we do deserve answers. We need the answers the right way. We need some really thoughtful leaders. I think Charlie's trying to be one of those people that's in the room that's like, hey, we need some answers. But, you know, whatever the answer is, we need to be prepared that it's not going to be maybe the answer that we were hoping for or that we may not have all the information that's laid out in front of us. Anyways, Jack, I don't know if you. What your thoughts are with that.
- [14:27]
Blake Neff
Yeah, no, I mean, I think we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves here, too, because let's keep in mind that, you know, this was a situation where Trump's Department of Justice. So the DOJ came out and said that there would be a phased release of Epstein files, starting with phase one back in February, and that there would be others that followed. So there's. There's two things here, I think, going on. Number one is this, you know, people saying, hey, we want prosecutions, we want, we want this going, going on. We want to see who else was involved. Okay, that's number one. Number two is the statement that there's nothing else to be released, especially at a time when JFK files, they released them all, threw them up, anyone can go look at them. Tulsi Gabbard came out and said, hey, we're, we're scanning these things. Some of these files because they're so old, they've never even been scanned before. They spent a lot of time doing that. She was completely open about it. And they put them right up and then anyone can go and look at the PDFs. And I believe they're searchable in one way, shape or form. RFK as well. RFK Senior. I mean, his assassination. They've talked about doing other stuff with files. So those are examples of the way to do accountability. Right? But when it comes to this, rather than saying, okay, here's the link, everyone can go and look at the Epstein files, which really would have diluted, I think, all of this anger. Instead it's, there are no Epstein files. And that was the initial response, which I think has kind of been, has kind of been driven over in the past nine, ten days or so, because obviously if they're talking about who's in the Epstein files, and that means there are files. And so there was this strange unsigned memo that came out on a Sunday night saying there are no Epstein files. And that's just. To everyone's, you know, you know, to everyone's response is just, just ridiculous because people are sitting there going, wait a minute though. If you're conducting an investigation, obviously there are going to be files, they're going to be memos, they're going to be FBI 302 forms, etc. Etc. And then trying to hide behind this idea of, oh, well, there's child sexual abuse. Nobody wants the child sexual abuse material to come out. Obviously they want the children, if at all possible, as much as possible, to be protected and if at all possible, to get the justice that they really were deprived of when this guy, when he died in that cell. And so when people are really looking at all this, they're saying, why isn't there any information that you can just put up? Where are the emails, you know, from the investigation, where are the memos? Where are the documents? Where any of these things that anyone could release, you know, go back to like Julian Assange, when those tranches of emails came out, people could go and search them. You can still go to WikiLeaks and search them right now. And I think that is the second bucket of things that people are looking for. So the first one, yes, prosecutions, absolutely. If possible. We know that this, this interview is supposedly coming out in about 90 minutes or so with President Trump and John Solomon, but then also troves of documents for people to be able to look through and people be able to research on their own to find out what's actually in there. I think, I think the statement that there's no files at all is, is really what was driving Jack.
- [17:50]
Jack Posobiec
Jack, the way that it was, the way that it was released is problematic as well. It was, it was a Sunday night on a holiday weekend. It was this memo leaked to Axios. And by the way, when this is a base issue and you're going to send it to Axios, like what exactly do you think the base is going to respond to with at that point? But ultimately, I mean, I think that the comm strategy, you're 100% right. It should have been very, very straightforward. Here's our WikiLeaks style document. Everything we have. Here's what we don't have. We are working to find that and as soon as we find that, we will let you know and we will subsequently release it. Just like we've released this. We have, we have only redacted anything that's related to victims, any names, sources, methods, all that stuff has been released. And I understand that there is potentially, this is one of the excuses I've heard. There's potentially collateral damage in that release. Like Blake's made the point a lot, at least in our, in our chats. This is, this guy was a socialite. He was out and about. He, he was, they, they said, they describe him as having a motor of a curious brain. Like he, and he would fly just to go have dinner with professors and scientists and Nobel laureates and all of these things, right? So, so there's gonna be a lot of people that, that he was interacting with that probably had nothing to do with any of the seedier parts of his, of his activities and that could potentially sort of ruin their lives, right? At least for a time being. And so that's one of the things that they have been working against and kind of trying to deal with. I don't think that they should, they should give too much credence to that. That shouldn't be the top priority list because it's been so butchered now, Jack, that we're starting to see this reflected in the polling, right? We're Seeing it reflected in the polling when it comes to 18 to 29 year olds. And we're seeing. And by the way, that slide with 18, 29 year olds has been happening since the Iran situation, which I would have expected, had things gone normally to go back up. But I think when you tack on Iran onto the Epstein thing, which again is very online, which 18 to 29 year olds are very online, this is becoming a compounding effect. So this and Ukraine. And Ukraine. This, it totally. This is the, the fire alarm for the base. I actually have something of an in between view of Epstein. I don't think that we're gonna, I don't think of him as the skeleton key that's gonna unlock all the mysteries of the, of the previous decades and the intel corruption. It might have some answers. I don't think it's gonna unravel all of them. I don't give Epstein that much credit. But the red, the fire alarm here is that when you handle this thing in such a way where people are so pissed about it that you're going to have a compounding effect that shows up in the polling, which then means it's going to have an impact in the midterms. So if you want to get impeached again, this is the way you do it, is you just keep ignoring it. So we have to address it and you have to just sort of say, hey, listen, you guys are going to be disappointed. I'll give you everything we got. Let's go.
- [20:53]
Tyler Boyer
Well, Blake's position is that nothing happened and everything, we should just ignore everything that happened at the well.
- [21:00]
Andrew Klavan
So I would say I think there's like almost. There's this.
- [21:04]
Tyler Boyer
He actually said that he, he actually said that both he and Michael Jackson are in the same camp, that there was nothing bad that ever went down. Every.
- [21:14]
Andrew Klavan
This is all you think Michael Jackson was probably just totally innocent. No, Epstein, Epstein. It seems pretty clear Epstein actually had like crimes with underage girls. I don't know the full extent of them.
- [21:26]
Tyler Boyer
But here's the deal though, Blake. I have people who are down at the US Virgin Islands and the follow up to that, I mean they've gone in and out of that place.
- [21:37]
Blake Neff
Tyler, walk this, walk, walk, walk through this for people. Because I've been meaning to sort of ask you offline about this, but if you're bringing it up, bring it up because I know that you know more about the US Virgin Islands connection. Keep in mind folks, this is where the Epstein island was and people don't even remember that one of that they remember the two cases, the Florida case against Epstein and then also the New York case.
- [22:03]
Jack Posobiec
But.
- [22:03]
Blake Neff
But there was a third case in the US Virgin Islands.
- [22:07]
Tyler Boyer
So just for everyone's understanding at home, there is some really sketchy stuff just in general that goes on down at the U.S. virgin Islands. And so the political parties that are established, which are American political parties, both Republican and Democrat, operate down there and operate as holding companies for so much political dollars. I mean, this is a. This is a tiny place.
- [22:33]
Andrew Klavan
Isn't a lot of that just. The Virgin Islands are kind of a dump, though. Like, his island is nice, but it's otherwise like, it's kind of a slum.
- [22:40]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. So that's the question you should ask yourself is why does every major candidate that runs for office go down and do massive, huge fundraisers down in the Virgin Islands, like right in the shadows of Epstein Island. So that's a que.
- [22:55]
Blake Neff
That's.
- [22:56]
Tyler Boyer
And that's legitimately a big question. There's lots of shady stuff that goes through the US Virgin Islands. There are a lot of shady characters who show up that are super involved all of a sudden with the political parties down there, including the Republican Party, including the Democrat Party. And the people that have been down there, that live down there have witnessed that are the citizens of the Virgin Islands that have been there for generations, that live there have watched as. As in the government has gone in numerous times, cleared out. They will absolutely, you know, take out people that try to get anywhere near the island. They have watched as items, documents, things were. Have been carried out at later times months after Epstein had. Had died, had killed himself. Right. So you have. Or allegedly killed himself, I should say. These are all things that are part of the questions that should be answered that all revolve around Epstein.
- [24:00]
Andrew Klavan
Right.
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Tyler Boyer
So if there isn't an explanation, this is something that people should be looking at. Well, then explain what has been going on there and why so many federal agents have gone in and out of that place in years and months.
- [24:13]
Andrew Klavan
That's part of it. I actually think no explanation can ever suffice for a lot of what. And that's like. That's kind of totally agree. That is the big problem that the administration is caught in is to the. If it is true that a ton of people care about this because his claim is no one cares about it, but.
- [24:28]
Tyler Boyer
Well, CNN said 97% of us do.
- [24:30]
Andrew Klavan
Who knows?
- [24:31]
Jack Posobiec
We.
- [24:31]
Andrew Klavan
We'll see how passionate people care about that. But like the. The catch 22 they're caught in is there's like really every. Any evidence they give, unless it is like, oh, here's the list, here's the 57 people that actually were like blackmailed by Epstein. And now they will all have to resign in disgrace and the system has come crashing down. They'll say anything you release is just, it's actually perpetuating the COVID up. More and more people get in on the COVID up. It's like, does anything they ever release about Kennedy kill the JFK conspiracies? No. Does anything they release about 911 kill, 911 conspiracies? No. Same thing with this. Like if they were to release everyone, like let's say it's grand jury testimony and it's all the guilt by association stuff. Here's everyone who ever basically shook Jeffrey Epstein's hand over a 25 year period. And then all these people are tarred by association because they met Epstein, went to some social event that he was at, knew him, exchanged emails with him, no proof of any actual crimes that they were involved in. And then people will just say, well, why aren't you releasing all the stuff that shows they're guilty of all those crimes too? There will always be new things they will demand. And I think it actually probably does behoove us to pause and like, look at the evidence that we might be massively outrunning ourselves here. Like, let's take a core part of the Epstein mythos. A core part of the Epstein mythos, Like part of the proof that he is an intelligence asset is that supposedly Alex Acosta, who was the prosecutor, the federal prosecutor involved in negotiating that plea deal he did in Florida back in the 2000s, supposedly he. 2008, I believe. Supposedly he told the White House during the Trump years, because he was coming in to take department Secretary of Labor, right? He was coming in to take a cabinet position. And they're like, well, you were involved in this. That's of course a controversial thing. Why did you reach that plea deal? Supposedly he says, I was told he was tied to intelligence and so I had to go easy on him. I always hear this cited as like a thing he said on the record. It's not. That was never stated on the record. That is a secondhand assertion of, attributed to an anonymous former administration official in a Daily beast article in 2019. So anonymous secondhand source. And also since then, Acosta actually went, we have an on the record statement from Acosta in 2020. And he said he doesn't think that. I think he said, like, the answer is no, he doesn't think that. He was an intelligence agent. And Vicky Ward, the author of that 2019 Daily Beast article that had that citation, she says today she doesn't believe Epstein was a spy or working for any government. In fact, I think we have a tape of her saying that recently. Yeah, let's play 379.
- [27:32]
Jack Posobiec
Well, I mean, that's the other now theory doing the rounds, right among, you know, that the reason the. No one's going to release the real data that they have is because he must have been some sort of agent or spy. I don't think he was working for a particular government. I don't know what your take on that is.
- [27:53]
Blake Neff
People of power, people of influence who enjoyed his company. I mean, I mean, I think we're mesmerized by. By him in so many ways. And part of what was mesmerizing is that everybody came away with knowing things they did not know. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein, certainly a conduit of all kinds of information.
- [28:21]
Tyler Boyer
So I guess based off of what you're saying then, is that they could just give Ghislaine Maxwell immunity and just let her talk freely then maybe.
- [28:31]
Andrew Klavan
I mean, that's another thing. Have you ever looked into the Ghislaine Maxwell trial? There's some stuff that's weird about it.
- [28:37]
Blake Neff
Yeah, we covered it. Actually, I was surprised that because there were no cameras back then, not a lot of people were covering it live, but we were doing, on, on my show, we were doing pretty much daily updates when that thing was coming out. It was, believe it or not, it was four years ago when she was on trial, which is crazy to even think about. It's been six years, by the way, since he was found dead in his cell. So, I mean, this has been.
- [29:01]
Andrew Klavan
It's.
- [29:02]
Blake Neff
It's just crazy when you think about how long it's been that people have really been asking this. And, and I agree, though, that it's. It's a fever pitch now because people are being told because of the way it's been handled, because people are being told you can't have any information as, as a. And this is totally, you know, on whoever put together that memo from a week and a half ago, so totally on them. I don't think it's on the people asking for questions, and I certainly don't think it's on voters asking for information and accountability from their government. I think that's what MAGA is all about, accountability from the government and let the chips fall where they may. Absolutely. Let the chips fall where they may. Just release what you Got show. Show us what you got.
- [29:42]
Jack Posobiec
Well, when. But. Well, one thing on you, what you just said, Jack, like, whoever signed off on that memo, I mean, don't we know now that it was like, Dan, Cash and Pam, like, they all. They all touched the memo. They all looked at it, and that that much has been made public now. I think they just didn't understand how deep this goes, at least the. The intrigue with the base. And I think, you know, they know now. They see. They see now. But. But. But I don't want to go away from what you said. Blake, what was so weird about the Ghislaine Maxwell case? What were you thinking of in your head when you said that?
- [30:19]
Andrew Klavan
Well, so, for example, this came out one of the juror. So when they were getting jurors for the trial, they asked on the jury questionnaire, were you a victim of sexual abuse or someone close to you a victim of sexual abuse? And this guy said no on his form. And then it turned out that was not true. He said he claims to have been a sexual abuse victim himself. And his, like, testimony to other members of the jury about his own abuse, which was not at issue in the trial, like, helped them overcome their doubts. And, like, he was explaining how actually, like, what the process of abuse is like and how the fact that their stories are inconsistent or have holes doesn't. Doesn't disprove them. It was. It was like, totally the. The me too narrative that we've heard before where, like, oh, if their story doesn't make sense, that's just. That's because the abuse affected them so badly. And then, like, afterwards, he was just straight up, like, celebrating with one of the alleged victims about, like, helping achieve this verdict outcome. Like, it was not. It was very odd behavior from a juror. Also, one of the. One of, like, the four core victims in the case was like, a schizophrenic who said that she had voices warning her that people were, like, agents were going to come and kidnap her children and take them away for sex trafficking. Like, there's a lot of weird stuff around the case. And I think it's worth remembering that Epstein getting arrested the second time, leading to a suicide that was happening at the height of MeToo. And it followed, like, a series of articles from the Miami Herald that basically laid out all these people who said they'd been abused by Epstein. And I just think it's worth pausing to think, like, how much do we truly 100% ironclad know in this case versus, like, the mythology, the Mythos that people have built up around this for years, because I feel like I.
- [32:20]
Tyler Boyer
Isn't that the argument, though, why you should just like, put out everything you could?
- [32:25]
Andrew Klavan
But it's also why there wouldn't be nearly as much as people think. And I've heard stuff like the great mystery of why Jeffrey Epstein had so much money. Like, this is just a 100% thing that can't be explained. So I finally. I just went and I read biography, like, articles about Epstein from 2002, before he'd even been arrested or anything. He was a math teacher. And then he was super smart and incredibly good at math. Like, he's clearly a prodigy. He was a math teacher at Dalton at, like, 20, and he didn't even need a college degree. And everyone just thought they were like, you're a genius. You should go work at that Wall street, those banks that are doing stuff. He gets a job at Bear Stearns.
- [33:02]
Jack Posobiec
Blake, wasn't it, like some. One of the. So it's a prestigious school. One of the dads goes, what are you doing school? Yeah, what are you doing Teaching math in high school? You need to go work for my friend at Bear Stearns.
- [33:14]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. And he goes there. And this is. This is.
- [33:16]
Blake Neff
Well, wait, wait, there was. If you go back to the Dalton School, there were some issues between him and some of the students there, too, the girl students.
- [33:25]
Andrew Klavan
Well, so he's this guy. Like, he's. He's. He basically. He's a guy who was insanely talented at money. Like, I think when people say, how did this math teacher get so rich? It often carries this implication, like, he was this nobody until he's 30 or 35 or something, and then he suddenly plucked up and becomes incredibly rich really quickly. When it's actually. He was a math teacher when he was like, 20 to 22. Then he goes and works on Wall street at the age you would work on Wall street as a young adult even today. And he rises incredibly rapidly. I think he joins bear Stearns in 70, like 79 or something. And he's like a partner within three years. And then he supposedly, like, quickly jumps out and starts his own firm. And his ascent was absolutely meteoric. And he's working with billionaire clients, supposedly with his own firm from, like, 1983 onwards. And if you're employing Bill, if you're. If you have billionaire clients paying you millions of dollars as a flat fee for money management from the mid-80s, you could absolutely be insanely rich by the 90s.
- [34:32]
Jack Posobiec
But, Blake, you're skipping over an Important point, because you've put that article in our chat and I read it. The question that I had instantly reading that jump from like working on Wall street and Bear Stearns and all of a sudden he launches his own firm. It basically, and I don't remember the author, Blake, there's some, there's some mystique around the author too that you brought up. But the author goes, well, he instantly only was accepting billionaire clients. Like almost instantly. Like if you had 500 or $800 million portfolios and you're saying, hey, manage my money, he'd say, it's not big enough. So this is like early mid-80s. He's still really pretty young. That jump alone was pretty. Pretty dramatic. Like who? That was a question I had. It's like, how at such a young age, with that little track record, would you be able to command billion dollars plus in 80s? This is not billionaires now. So that probably only a handful back.
- [35:29]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah, that'd be, you know, many multiple billions of dollars today. Yeah, so that's true. Of course, what we know is he's a charismatic guy who is very good at making friends with all manner of people.
- [35:40]
Jack Posobiec
That's the best answer. That's. There was that non exciting answer.
- [35:44]
Andrew Klavan
There's that and there's also. I think it's possible that he maybe cultivated a bit of a mystique around himself. So maybe he basically had one client, two clients. And then the idea was he had the. You know, he kind of encouraged people to think he possibly had more. But what we do know clearly, for example, is like with Les Wexner, who was. He was basically Les Wexner's money guy from 87 to 2007.
- [36:08]
Tyler Boyer
The, the. The founder. CEO of Victoria's Secret.
- [36:11]
Blake Neff
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:12]
Andrew Klavan
And limited. Yeah. And this guy, limited. He's basically. He has power of attorney over this guy. In the early 90s, he had absolute control of a multi billionaire's money, all his money. And later, I will note, Wexner claims that basically Epstein embezzled large amounts of money from him. He basically claimed he got robbed. So that would be believable. Like if you. He was basically running this guy's money and he self enriched himself to the tune of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. So maybe the narrative is as simple as he had one or two very rich people get really like become extremely close with him and he essentially exploited them. Certainly would not be the first such arrangement to exist in American finance or anywhere else. And so I only bring all of that up to say there Actually are mundane explanations of comparatively mundane explanations. You don't have this thing where only. Oh, he's an intelligence asset. Explains what he was able to do. I think he's a smart and extremely, like, charismatic individual who was in Wall street during this massive boom time. Can explain a lot of things. And I think for the later stuff, like, there was a sort of, like, mythology around him that encouraged wild accusations, wild beliefs, and we're sort of now coming to terms with that, and people are finding it difficult to extricate themselves from these many, many years of, like, mythology building around Epstein and.
- [37:46]
Jack Posobiec
Yeah, but, Blake, there's things like, how did he get possession of the largest, you know, mansion estate in Manhattan that was owned by the State Department via these.
- [37:57]
Andrew Klavan
It was. It was owned by Wexner, wasn't it? Like, the claim is, he got it from Wexner, he sold it.
- [38:02]
Jack Posobiec
Is that the claim?
- [38:03]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. So Wexner had it, and then he sold it. And there's some claims he may have sold it to him for a dollar, which would also explain if he was able to get it before, he would have otherwise been able to afford it. But he may have also just bought it normally because he made a ton of money.
- [38:17]
Jack Posobiec
I tend to agree with you, by the way. I think that, you know, I was looking at this former Prime Minister Naftali or whatever, Israeli Prime Minister, because, you know, post Tucker being at sas, then the entire Israeli Jewish community was, you know, pretty up in arms that Tucker was suggesting that the tie only went between Israel, Mossad, and Epstein. And so then you have, you know, you have. Former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett firmly denies it. So we asked Mike Bentz about that on the show, and Mike was like, hey, I look at this as, like, you know, really an artfully written letter, essentially saying, yeah, we're not denying any ties. He just didn't work for us. Okay, well, what is working for, you mean, versus having ties? And I tend to the way I look at this, and, Blake, I think you would probably resonate with this at some level, is this is a guy that's fooling around with, you know, hot women and then underage women. He claims, you know, at the time that he didn't know any of them were underage. I think he. I think we all can ignore that. He probably knew. He probably. He was doing weird crap with them. A lot of these women claim they were victimized, all that stuff. But he obviously had this appetite for titillation, right? He liked the extreme things. He was always pressing. And again, Motor of a socialite. Like he had this motor of an inquisitive brain of conversation. He would call people, apparently be on the phone for 10 hours a day with overseas currency brokers and he would be checking on markets all day long and building up these relationships. And I see what he did as much on the island for himself, his own getting kicks for himself and creating this mystique. But also it was probably good for business. He was known as a bon vivir. Right. Like this sort of man about town, a man of mystery. He liked to keep it that way. And, you know, it is probable that he was doing titillating things because he found it intriguing working with intel agencies. Right. So doing these, these offshore, you know, complicated tax shelters or layering of different businesses like this was. He had a particular set of skills that he could sell out to the highest bidder, but it didn't necessarily mean he was married to any of them. Right. So he might have been involved in different projects within the intel community that were seedy or unseemly, but that was. It's almost like he might have been drawn to that because it was. This is the type of person he, like, what do you call him, Blake? A fabulist. I think that's a fairly compelling, a fairly compelling way to look at his psychological makeup. He would do things that in. That increased his mystique, that, that got his kicks off that, that, you know, and that sort of pattern holds in each different area of his life.
- [41:03]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah, There are other articles about him that say basically in the 80s he told people he was an intelligence agent. I feel like, you know, the greatest intel asset of all time would not do that. But there are definitely fabulous who tell people all the time that they're intelligence assets and a lot of people even believe them. This actually works with a ton of people. You just tell someone you work for the CIA and if they don't get it, disproven, otherwise they sometimes just believe it. And so I guess like getting back to the core thing is, are we able to. Does this like damage the administration or are they going to be able to extricate themselves?
- [41:49]
Jack Posobiec
I don't know, Jack.
- [41:50]
Blake Neff
Well, I think, look, I think it's already shown up in polling. I think it's going to be something that. And by the way, let's, let's keep in mind too that the effect of the tariffs is now starting to come in where we are. You know, CPI was down, which was good. But at the same time, you know, the effect of the tariffs is Starting to be seen a little bit here and there with price increases around the board. You know, July usually is a very, very like, it's the doldrums of summer. This is normally not a hot news time. The news cycle is usually completely quiet during July. And yet here we are with this completely heated, I mean, almost seems chosen kind of discussion. And, you know, it's really one that was done with without any reason. As far as I know. As far as I can tell, there's no political or legal reason to put this memo out when they did. And so what I think the admin. Here's the issue, right. You know what I'm trying to say. The admin has a lot of wins that they can directly point to. They're also going to have to be spending political capital on various things here and there as, as things come up. You know, ice raids, et cetera, et cetera, tariffs, who knows, something kicks off with Ukraine or not, this new arms deal that's going through. And so this thing has turned into this, this massive, I think, umbrella in the sense that it's blocking out everything else that's going on. And for people to think that it's just, it's a mistake to think that it'll just go away on its own. And it's a mistake to think that people will just stop caring about it because they're told to. I don't think that's how MAGA works. I don't think how that, that's how the America first movement works. And I don't think it's going to go away, quote, unquote, until some pressure is released in some way. Now, whether that's by release, I would love to see a release. Whether that's by a special prosecutor, I would love to see a special prosecutor. We're now one hour away from that interview with John Solomon that's going to drop here with President Trump. It was recorded earlier this morning. So we're going to hear that as well. But of course, the question is, are we going to actually get one? Now, I've heard, I have heard that there is a serious effort underway to appoint a special prosecutor and that names are being listed already. So there's a list of names that's being brought together of potential, you know, potential individuals who could be that special prosecutor.
- [44:23]
Jack Posobiec
The deep state thing, right? Deep, deep state prosecutor. So it's going to be kind of like over all this, including Epstein, but it's going to be like, no.
- [44:31]
Blake Neff
So, yeah, so it's, it's. You put it together. Right. So it's a deep state prosecutor. But you add Epstein to the scope memo of this broader conspiracy that they were looking at already with Russiagate, Comey, Clapper, Brennan, etc. But you add, you add Epstein essentially to that as well to see if there's any nexus or be able to go. And so for people to understand this, by the way, when you look at Mueller, right. The special counsel's office isn't just, it's not just like one person is going over and reviewing this stuff. They have, they have teams under them, they have prosecutors, they have investigators, they have analysts. So you can easily have dual, you know, dual tracks of investigations in different buckets that they're looking into underneath the office of the special counsel, if that is the route that they end up going under. And by the way, there's also a question of whether or not this person needs to be Senate confirmed. That's something that, with some of these Supreme Court orders that came down. Actually, Blake, that would be. That's an interesting question for you. I know I'm kind of throwing you for, you know, didn't, didn't ask this beforehand, but is it true that with some of the court rulings on Jack Smith that a special counsel would need to be Senate confirmed?
- [45:42]
Andrew Klavan
So it's unclear because I think the court ruling was specifically about his. Correct. Or I haven't closely looked at this, but I do think.
- [45:51]
Blake Neff
You know, I'm talking about.
- [45:52]
Jack Posobiec
Right.
- [45:52]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:53]
Tyler Boyer
It's not, it's not required for an inferior.
- [45:57]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah, it's not currently. I think they could still do it in theory. I know Clarence Thomas basically said in like one of his concurrences that he would really like the Supreme Court to look at this, but I don't think the Supreme Court has explicitly ruled that basically special counsels are of that sort are actually not allowed anymore. But you are putting me on the spot. So I don't know the. For sure the answer.
- [46:20]
Blake Neff
No, no, I am. I don't think it was the Supreme Court either. I think it was. I think it was just the federal court. I think it was just a district level.
- [46:26]
Jack Posobiec
I know we all, we all were upset about Jack Smith being appointed special prosecutors without, without Senate confirmation. And it was, I believe. What was the judge down in Florida? What was her name? She. I think she ruled something about that as well, or she had written about that in one of her, one of her rule. Eileen Cannon. Yeah, that's right. So I, It's a good, it's a good question. We should, we should probably look into it.
- [47:00]
Blake Neff
Now. I think it's good. And so for folks who are there, you know, I want to, you know, in the chat, you know, send us your stuff as well, you know, freedom of charliefirck.com or 1776@human events.com send us your, send us your comments because there's a ton out there on this. We've spent now about 47 minutes talking about it, way longer than certainly we intended to. But honestly we could go even further because, you know, at the end of the day, I think this is a situation where people want answers. You're starting to see, by the way, and you look at the polling, this is something where the left and the right are actually in agreement on where they want more answers to come out on this or at least something to be done in this situation. So it's sort of becoming a self perpetuating prophecy here where, you know, it's, it's or self fulfilling prophecy, I should say, where the absence of a story has created a story rather than the other way around. And that, that goes back to, that goes back to the way it was handled. That goes back to the way that it was set up. But I know this is thought crime and we did have a few other topics that I wanted to get to. And so it would be remiss if we didn't talk about the Somali mayors. Do you guys want to get into the Somali mayors?
- [48:13]
Tyler Boyer
Oh boy.
- [48:14]
Andrew Klavan
We, we knew this had to come someday from Minneapolis. But you know, they could have, they could have waited a bit longer, but here we are. What's, what's his name again?
- [48:25]
Jack Posobiec
Oh yeah, I had it.
- [48:26]
Blake Neff
Omar.
- [48:27]
Andrew Klavan
Omar. Omar. Omar Fate. Right. Omar Fate, which I assume that's probably Fateh, like the word for conquest in Islam. You know, they have, they have basically that it's super common in like Turkey because it refers to like, oh, the Islamic conquest of the Christian empire. But anyway, we'll have a different Islamic conquest going on in Minneapolis and I'm sure it will work out equally as well for the inhabitants. So yeah, this guy, Omar Fateh, he is a Somali born in the United States, but he has clips of him referring to Somalia as our country, much like Ilhan. Omar also has clips of her doing that.
- [49:07]
Tyler Boyer
And he's really born in 1990. He's only 35.
- [49:10]
Andrew Klavan
Oh gosh. Oh man. So he's basically as old as I am. But yes, he's running for mayor of a large city. Do we have, what's the, what's the number for It. I should bring this up here. Oh, yeah. So we've got. He's vowing to protect all of the illegal immigrants of Minneapolis from ice. Let's play 286. Protecting all of our communities from Donald Trump means not letting MPD interact with ice. Whether it's for an immigration rate or.
- [49:36]
Tyler Boyer
Not, our residents deserve a mayor that.
- [49:38]
Andrew Klavan
Will stand up to Donald Trump and say, no, not in our community. Did you know that the city's own data showed that 47% of calls to MPD can be diverted to non police response? Cops aren't social workers. And then. Should we just play. Let's play the clip of him referring to Somalia, our home. Let's play 309. I understand that our Somali communities are all connected to each other here in.
- [50:05]
Tyler Boyer
Minnesota and back home and ask for your support.
- [50:09]
Andrew Klavan
There's always been a link between our community here as well as back home. And I'm running to bridge that gap and unite all of us and represent all of us. Because when we succeed here, we succeed everywhere. And I'm hoping to do that just like Abdul Zak. Inshallah. Inshallah.
- [50:28]
Tyler Boyer
Back home, Back home, Back home in the motherland.
- [50:31]
Andrew Klavan
Back home, back home in Somalia.
- [50:34]
Blake Neff
So this is the, this is the issue. And so apparently Unherd is like writing an article about me this week. And they asked me about this. What do you mean? Because I said, I said, this guy's clearly not an American. I said the same thing about Zoram Hamdani. And what I'm getting at is we have at some point, this is a broader debate. And it's, it's honestly something that I think is one of the most pressing issues in America today because we now have these foreign enclaves inside the United States which are completely, as you can hear from their own words, that they, they bear allegiance to the homeland, the motherland, they bear affinity towards them. This is something, by the way, that our founding fathers were very directly worried about and very directly concerned about the idea of allegiance to foreign powers. It's something that all of them spoke at great length about. But then when you combine that with new factors such as the Internet and social media, which allow for this direct communication, direct consumption of media from that area, news from that area, FaceTime, group chats, etcetera, you really don't even need to assimilate at all within the home country anymore, the western country, the host country, if you will. And they can grow and grow exponentially in many cases, particularly Somalia. But then there's also this Question of birthright citizenship. So this individual, Omar Fattah, which, by the way, I looked this up before the show, I wasn't able to get a definitive answer as to whether or not his parents ever attained US Citizenship at all. I think it said that they came when they were younger as students, and yet I have no information as to whether or not they ever attained us, Obtained US Citizenship. And yet here he is running for mayor. He's a US Citizen, and yet he bears allegiance to Somalia. He saw the same thing with Zorami, who is someone who just became a citizen a couple of years ago and is now running and probably will be the next mayor of New York. Although I believe the polling has tightened up a little bit in that race where it's. It. I think it just bears, you know, and for everybody, you know, open it up. It just bears this bigger question of, you know, does a piece of paper make you an American? Does a piece of paper mean, oh, well, here you go, you're an American now? Because this piece of paper, this stamp says you're American. And I would argue that that's not what a nation is. And I would argue that these ethnic enclaves and mass immigration absolutely do dilute our national character and our national identity. And a nation is a breathing, living, organic thing. And every other nation around the world and all throughout history would agree with us in this aspect. And it's this belief in this weird 1960s version of the country that, oh, that like, anybody can just automatically become an American has led to some really, really bad outcomes.
- [53:42]
Andrew Klavan
So a kind of fact that's interesting regarding whether his parents became citizens. So I'm reading here. This is from migrationpolicy.org but did you know that of all immigrants from any country that we have, like, a sizable number of Somalis have the highest naturalization rate of actually going through the process of becoming citizens. So 68% of all immigrants from Somalia have gone all the way and become citizens, whereas the average overall is just 52%. So they're, like, way above the norm. And I think it's worth confronting that. It's worth talking about that because I would hazard to say that Somalis are probably among the groups with the highest rate of, like, probably going on state support, receiving welfare in various ways. They probably have lower employment rates than a large number of immigrant groups. And we've seen it play out multiple times where you have, frankly, insane feeding frenzies on government money that route through the Somali community. Anyone who's unfamiliar with it should look up the Feeding Our Future scandal. That was a Covid era program where they basically were receiving money to provide meals to children during COVID and they took hundreds of millions of dollars. And if you look at the indictment for this, every single person involved is a, has like, has a Muslim name except for like the one like white, like white Lutheran woman who's like at the very top of the organization. It's like her and then everyone else below it. And they're basically just taking cash and like shipping it directly to Somalia that they got through this thing. All of everything about it from top to bottom was fake. And it really has to stand out. Like there is an, there's just a clear cut difference in my view from like one guy, you know, maybe embezzling money from a company he works at or someone robbing a store or something. And this like real like hundreds or dozens of people, possibly hundreds, participating in this systematic plundering of the government so they can route money to, to their like ethnic subgroup. And then when they were trying to prosecute this, people were offered like tens of thousand dollar bribes. Like we had jurors who were just offered bribes. This was caught, this was detected. It's like absolutely insane what has happened because they've built up this large sub national community in Minneapolis. And I think, you know, Matt Walsh went viral the other day for just asking, I challenge anyone, he said, to provide a single way America has benefited from Somali immigration. And the simple answer is but no one can.
- [56:31]
Blake Neff
But. But no, it's no. No, that's. That's not true, Blake. That's not true. Because I was able to answer and rise to the occasion of Matt Walsh's challenge because does anyone remember Sports Illustrated a couple of years ago? The burkini. Yes, that's right. The burkini is what we have thanks to Somali Americans. God bless, excuse me, Allah. Bless. The burkini. The wonderful burkini.
- [56:59]
Tyler Boyer
You don't want to get caught wearing a burkini in Minnesota in the wintertime. It's a little nippy. I think it's really interesting what's happening in Minnesota. The back. The history, the political history of, of Minnesota is you're starting to see a significant shift. Kamala Harris only barely squeaked out Minnesota this last go around. And a lot of this has to do with the fact that Minnesota has one of the few not Democrat proper Democrat parties. They have what's called the dfl. So it's the Democratic Farmers and Labor Party. There, there was a merger that happened. I think it was Pre World War II, somewhere in the early 1900s that they merged together and it was the farmers, mostly farmers, but farmer and Labor Party merged together with the Democrat Party. And now you have today this circumstance where it's like you've got a complete takeover of outsiders coming into the state of Minnesota and people finally there are Democrats are waking up and we see this now happening in the outskirts and again where the DFL really dominated for the better part of a century, which was, you know, in the more rural parts of Minnesota that have now gone Republican. Now you have Republican congressmen that are there and that for the first time in a long time, the western part of the state went Republican a few years ago. And so you are seeing a shift and a change and this is becoming right down lines. And so I do think that the outcome of having such radicalized foreign nationals come in is probably, is for certainly driving Democrat proper rural areas more Republican. The question is, is that going to be fast enough and enough votes to offset the growth that we're seeing with the invitation of all these foreign nationals coming into cities like Minneapolis, where you have to ultimately abandon your state and just the entire rural area basically just has to live underneath, you know, a Somalian empire that has been created within your state. And people are waking up to that now. And like the average Democrats, moderate Democrats are like, oh my gosh, like, I don't agree with any of this. I'm gonna vote Republican as DFL members. And that's the reason why they have like a million. They have estimated more than a million more voters than Republicans do, the DFL does in Minnesota. And yet Donald Trump only lost the state by whatever it was like 3%. Yeah, like, it's crazy. So this is the same issue with New York City that's going on right now. It's like there is like letting them hang themselves a little bit. Is that there? You're going to have this shift as these things continue to happen. I would much rather, and this is a thought crimey subject here, because people will debate me and say I'm stupid all day long for saying this, but I would much rather have a foreign national get elected, incidentally, as mayor of a big city that we've already lost anyways to commie Dems who are constantly brokering deals in the background, because it's going to actually have a net positive right word shift outcome when people don't like what they see.
- [60:28]
Blake Neff
I just think, yeah, I mean, I, I've been, I've been. I went kind of viral for talking about this at. @ Sass. And, you know, I don't care. Like, I.
- [60:39]
Jack Posobiec
It's just.
- [60:39]
Blake Neff
It's gone too far at this point. Everyone knows what an American is. This is way too much. It's. And it's. It's just too far. The whole thing has just gone too far. And I think that's why the average American is like, I don't want to hear any of these flowery arguments about, oh, this is why we need this, and this is why we need the Mall of America to be overrun by Somalians anymore. Like, just.
- [61:01]
Andrew Klavan
Just.
- [61:01]
Blake Neff
It's just too much.
- [61:02]
Jack Posobiec
I'm with you, Jack. You know, I. I am 100% American. I'm going to die here. I'm going to raise my kids here. I know what an American is. And when I see guys like Fatah Omar Fatah or Zoram Ondani or there's some guy in Detroit that's running for Senate in Michigan, I forget his name. I just instantly think, immigration moratorium. I want an immigration moratorium. I want less legal immigration because it's obviously getting gamed. It's chain migration crap where they just bring all their nephews and nieces and their aunties and their uncles over and they say, oh, look at. We've got this United States and we can just flip police the system. And, oh, yeah, we happen to be Muslim. And. Which means we're called to politically dominate the host country like a parasite. And we're gonna play into their. Their sympathies and their weaknesses because they. All these white people are scared of being called racist. And so we're gonna use their rules against them and we're gonna take over. And then you got this Red Green alliance where they're all sort of race Marxists and socialists and they want to extract the wealth of hardworking Americans to give it away to all these people we just imported because we're all racist, apparently. And so the whole thing is a ball of wax. It's a mess. And if anybody with half a brain and kudos to Matt Walsh for saying it, knows that this does us no good. This does us zero good. You don't even, like, I don't even know about Somali food. Right. At least with, like, Mexican immigrants, you could say, I like the tacos, okay? And they're Catholic. But with Somalis, you got. It's the Muslim portion of it where, I'm sorry, you're not going to assimilate the same way that a Christian nation will assimilate. And you've also got no good food. And these people. I'm sorry. Of all the countries on planet Earth where you could make an argument that, oh, they bring some sort of, like, good aspects of their culture. Somalia is a disaster. And it's a disaster for a reason. It's called the quality of the people, and it's called the quality of the culture, the quality of the governance. There is no. I mean, look at. Look no further than Ilhan Omar. This woman is a train wreck. She's an ingrate. She has made Congress worse. She's a disgrace to Congress. She's a disgrace to Minnesota. The fact that she's getting elected is only as a result of poor immigration policies. So, yeah, I'm done with it. I want an immigration moratorium. That's it. Net zero. We just take in as many as we get out. We'll do some genius visas. We're going to automate everything. Enough of this crap. And by the way, there is. And Blake, you know this better than me, but there is data to support. When we look at our fertility rates across the West. When you start importing the third world, if fertility rates, maybe they were already low to begin with, that might just be a factor of modernity. I'm not saying there's only one variable here. But when you start importing the third world and. And you are growing up and you become of age to start having kids and you think you don't necessarily feel tied to the culture that you're inhabiting anymore. You don't look around and go, like, I want my kids to inherit my country because it's my country. There's like, some weird psychological pattern that unfolds, and you don't. You don't. That doesn't trigger when you feel like your country doesn't belong to you anymore. And I'm sorry, I'm old enough to remember an America that looked dramatically different than this. And guess what? It was better. It was more cohesive. It was more singing from the same song sheet. And, you know, so point is, Blake, make. I don't know what. Blake, you sent some research paper on.
- [64:44]
Andrew Klavan
Basically declining racism, high immigration, high immigration of other groups. It suppresses, it lowers, like, the fertility rate of the actual, like, natives of the country. And that also can just exacerbate what people. I think so much of this just happens because people are bad at math. Like, every time mass immigration projects have been started, it always starts with someone saying, this won't, like, fundamentally change the nature of the country. And it always fundamentally changes the nature of the country.
- [65:12]
Blake Neff
It fundamentally changes, which Ted Kennedy said in 1965.
- [65:15]
Andrew Klavan
Yes, he said it about us. And like they said it in other countries, they told this to the Britons before they started bringing everyone in. They've told it to the French, they've told it to all sorts of people. And the answer is just, it's not true. Especially at the scale they are doing it. And it's really, like, outrageous. You know what? I'm gonna divert this thing. We need to actually highlight this because we haven't mentioned it on Charlie's show yet, and we need to make sure it happens in the UK did you see this story, Tyler? In the UK, the government, they initiated an operation to bring 24,000 Afghans from Afghanistan to Britain. And then they got a court order, they got a judge to order that it was illegal to report on this. It was illegal for the press to notify the public that this was happening. They spent £7 billion on this to fly them to the UK. Even as I'm not making this up, the government did an internal report that, one, that actually they're not really in any danger from the Taliban and this is probably not necessary. And two, by the way, a lot of these migrants will probably be radicalized because the UK is a dump and they're going to decide that it sucks and they're going to become terrorists.
- [66:23]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah.
- [66:24]
Andrew Klavan
I just am in awe of how crappy Britain is.
- [66:29]
Jack Posobiec
Here's what's crazy. Look at the average birth rate of a Somali. This. This plays into what you're talking about. Blake. Look at the average birth rate. I know we have this here. It's 380. Throw it up in the middle. This is in Somalia. Okay, granted, this is not Somalians in America, but you can imagine the culture. This is 6.2 Somalis per woman, per woman. This is 2022. Our birth rate is around 1.6, 1.65 per woman in the United States. You bring over.
- [66:56]
Tyler Boyer
The Minnesota DFL woman only has negative babies, actually. So the average DFL woman, I don't.
- [67:05]
Jack Posobiec
Know what that means, but they had like, what, ab.
- [67:08]
Tyler Boyer
It's two abortions per DFL member. And anyway, sorry, I just want to throw that. Make sure that stack outside.
- [67:16]
Jack Posobiec
But, Blake, to your point, when you bring over 24,000 Afghans or whatever, I don't know their birth rate off the top of my head, but I'm assuming it's higher than your average Western woman. You're not just bringing over 24,000, you're bringing over people that are going to go on the dole, you're bringing over higher crime, you're bringing over probably sex pests. And we've seen this throughout Europe and you're bringing over all of their like increased birth rates. So when you're talking about math and you go to like Somalia, the Somalians going into Minneapolis, if you start doing the, like the, the, the charts of how one population is going to keep growing plus and the other one shrinking plus you talk about chain migration, like this is this problem may have already become too big to solve in a place like Minnesota.
- [68:06]
Andrew Klavan
Speaking of the birth rate scammer, this is part of what they'll do. One, they'll say like we need this to keep our birth rate high enough to avoid our pensions becoming collapsing or like we need them to fill like all the holes in our employment system. But it's literally a scam from top to bottom because especially if they're coming from Afghanistan or Somalia, these groups have vastly higher rates of unemployment, vastly higher rates of going on every form of welfare and like multi generationally you'll just be, have a huge share of them be not in the workforce again. Let's look at Britain.
- [68:39]
Jack Posobiec
It's worse than that. It's worse than that. During the Biden years we were, our tax dollars were going to fund NGOs to help them understand how to game the system. So then they would get here and then we paid to help them fleece us.
- [68:51]
Tyler Boyer
So you want to know what the scariest part is in most of these states where they bring in Middle Easterners or Africans from, you know, from these countries. Most of the places that they go to work now they are coached through the healthcare system and social work. So a lot of the individuals, this is why you're seeing, this is you'll have, and again this is, this is just a scary fact. You have international migrants coming here with absolutely no skills whatsoever. They're put through things that we pay for to put them through school for healthcare, working like nursing, like end of life care type stuff, senior care type stuff, social work type stuff. And that's who's now taking care of our elderly here in America. People who are brand new here to this country don't even speak the language. And now we're sticking them in, just basically, you know, change diapers on seniors and feed them and get them up and out of bed and into. And that to me is just like a very scary thing as well when you think about it is that, you know, when we talk about the, how society has changed so much with young people not getting jobs and doing the tasks that we expect now foreigners to do. We're outsourcing foreign labor to take care of our seniors. So they're taking over jobs that young people should have. They're also taking jobs that you should probably be doing as a family. We're talking about the complete disruption of American societal values, top to bottom, all because they want to, you know, institute foreign labor into the US and this is like, a very common thing. Like in Minnesota, it says the number one. The number one job that Somalis have is social work.
- [70:54]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. Like, you end up, like, the main job they end up being qualified for is, like, managing how much assistance their community needs to function. And I always worth reminding people, like, the main. Remember the infamous Ilhan Omar marrying her brother story. It's not a story of, like, incest. No one actually really argues she had sex with her brother or something. It's entirely a story of just gaming the system. Gaming this dumb system. It is an entire group whose, like, main livelihood is scamming the system and.
- [71:22]
Tyler Boyer
Teaching others how to scam.
- [71:23]
Andrew Klavan
We had a guest on Charlie's show the other day. Do you know what group has the highest autism rate in the world? Minnesota Somalis. Way higher than anyone else. Guess what? You get tons of money when your kid is diagnosed as autistic. So it's like, you just look at it, and it's from top to bottom. It's like, what is the economic livelihood of this immigrant group that we brought into America? It is literally skimming off, like, the surplus that everyone else in Minnesota is able to create. Why would any country do this?
- [71:52]
Tyler Boyer
So number one is social work. Number two in Minnesota is health care and servicing, which isn't like real health care. It's like senior care, like we're talking about. Number three is teachers of Somali heritage and Somali bilingual teachers.
- [72:11]
Andrew Klavan
They provide all the bilingual educators you need in public schools because there's so many kids who don't speak English.
- [72:18]
Blake Neff
So this. This is what I want to. This is my point, though, right? When we create these ethnic enclaves, what we're doing is you're not making someone a hyphenated American. You're not even making someone a little bit American. They're not Somalian Americans. They're just Somalians. They're just Somalians in America. That's. Even if you listen to Omar Fattah, that's exactly how he describes it. He describes it as this sort of like. Like it's an excerpt. Like, it's a separate part of Somalia. That's in America, he's telling the truth. That's exactly what's going on. And so when I say he's not an American, that's what I'm referring to. I understand that on a piece of paper he's a legal citizen. I get all that. I get birthright citizenship. But I'm talking about is something much bigger and much broader. Become an American is a multi generational process. It absolutely is. And in this case they don't even seem to be interested in embarking on that. I want to go. I think we have this clip. It's clip 384 and this is from the Mall of America today. Like currently it's B roll and yeah, it's just B roll.
- [73:27]
Tyler Boyer
Wait, this was today?
- [73:29]
Blake Neff
No, no, no, no, no. Like, like in modern.
- [73:31]
Jack Posobiec
Modern day.
- [73:32]
Tyler Boyer
Oh yeah, like modern day.
- [73:34]
Blake Neff
I have another one from the 90s I'm going to play. And this was just I guess some fight at the Mall of America recently, you know, that was going on, which I've never been to. Have you guys ever been there? I've never been there.
- [73:47]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. So I remember my parents going there. My dad had to go on a work trip to Minnesota when I was like in like I don't know, third grade or something. And they went to the Mall of America and was like, you went to the Mall of America? And my like, my dad had pictures they took on like his like you know, the wind up camera and stuff like that they had developed with my mom. And it was like, like an. And they brought back like a shirt from the Mall of America and it was like this is an incredible place. Like this is like you can see it from space. Like it's like people like really wanted to, you know, go see it and be there. And now you have this. Now you have like it's like a third world country inside Mall of America. So like a lot of our big.
- [74:31]
Blake Neff
Cities went hyper viral. This went hyper viral on, on Twitter right after the this. And this is. So we have footage of the opening right when the Mall of America opened in 1992 and the crowds that were there. And again, this is something where I remember when this happened. I remember I was old enough to remember when this opened. I remember this whole thing. So let's play clip 385.
- [75:06]
Jack Posobiec
Oh, it's just B roll 2.
- [75:10]
Tyler Boyer
This is 1992.
- [75:12]
Blake Neff
1992. Oh, the audio of this is great. I wish we had it because there's. They're just talking about how fun it is to be there, you know, how, how excited they are to be there. You also get into these. This sort of like, I don't know, there's sort of like 90s American archetypes that just don't quite exist anymore. Like, there's a guy who's like a collector. There's a guy who's there to just sort of. It's towards the end where he's just. He just visits American landmarks and likes to take pictures of them. So it's sort of like a precursor to selfie culture, I guess, where he's just sort of sitting there and it's amazing because he's just sort of enjoying the moment, saying, yep, I really love this Mall of America and I'm really excited to be here. You could tell he's just so genuine about it, where he's. He's not posting it to some blog or he's not posting it to some, you know, social media account, or he's just enjoying it because it's part of America and that's what he loves. I'm being told by producer Faz in the chat that is the home of the first nitro, WCW Nitro. So a ton of. Yeah, just a ton of, you know, a ton of history that's gone through there that's like. It's just totally gone. It's just an America that doesn't exist anymore. I don't know. What do you guys think?
- [76:26]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah, it's gone. It's actually really sad. I follow dead malls on Reddit and just like, you could they show up the pictures of before and after, like the malls when they opened or like in the 90s and then like what they look like today. And people like, take video cameras in there. And I think one of the saddest things for me, it's just like, it is what it is. And I talk about this with like, my, my grandparents who we talk all the time about drive in movie theaters and stuff like that, and just like, like the entire. The lore of like, how America used to be. And for us, it's. It's malls, right? And just to see that. And I forget, you forget you haven't been in a mall in like a long time. And there's some malls are still open and you'll go in every once in a while. Like here in Arizona, we still have Scottsdale Fashion Square. They're still open, but it's not the same as what it used to be and where it was. Like you just had a mall in every big city and you would go and it was such A big deal. And kids would go and hang out all day long and you would see this stuff and it's just gone. The culture of America shifted, I think with cell phones pretty much when the iPhone was developed and you just don't. And then obviously like Amazon and everything else, but you just don't have any of that anymore. And the personal interaction that exists, the human interaction, the going there, getting excited about it being there. And like a big part of that was like, you went with like your family, like you went with your mom or your dad. And like, they would, they would like give you like five bucks. They'd be like, don't spend that everywhere. Right? Like, and you would go like, you know, to like Dairy Queen or whatever it was, or like hot dog on a stick and you know, eat whatever Wetzel's pretzels and eat whatever you had there. And it was like, that was like such a. Like a mentally different time. And now it's like nothing like that exists. Like, where do you think we have.
- [78:17]
Blake Neff
Wait, guys, I think we've cleaned this up. It's. Let's play it again. Clip 385 with audio.
- [78:22]
Andrew Klavan
The bargains are coming. The bargains are coming. Here ye hear ye.
- [78:26]
Tyler Boyer
The mother of all shopping crowds was waiting as the doors open.
- [78:29]
Andrew Klavan
Yes, shop till you drop. We are professional shoppers.
- [78:34]
Tyler Boyer
By noon, the two parking ramps were.
- [78:36]
Blake Neff
Filled with 13,000 cars. And that sent the mall's war room into action. We were able to divert to off.
- [78:42]
Jack Posobiec
Site parking properly and efficiently and effectively within five minutes.
- [78:47]
Andrew Klavan
There was congestion on the roads, but.
- [78:49]
Blake Neff
The plan seemed to work.
- [78:51]
Tyler Boyer
Meanwhile, the traffic jam continued inside the mall.
- [78:56]
Blake Neff
It took almost an hour to get.
- [78:58]
Tyler Boyer
On some of the most popular amusement rides.
- [79:00]
Blake Neff
And the wait continued in the food line.
- [79:06]
Andrew Klavan
Now I'm looking up. So remember when that kid got thrown off the balcony at the Mall of America by. Was it a Somali migrant who did it? I think it was. Anyway, he lived. He's actually doing okay, so that's good. The New York Post, of all things, did a follow up article about him. He's doing all right now, so. So that's good. But he probably shouldn't have been thrown off the balcony in the first place. I think that was avoidable and lamentable.
- [79:31]
Tyler Boyer
So the biggest difference between outside of no longer having malls everywhere and normal Americans walking through them is now we have no malls and just a bunch of mentally ill people and a bunch of foreign migrants running around most of our cities. Great job, America. Doing well.
- [79:50]
Blake Neff
So, Tyler, one of the things you're talking about is the idea of third spaces. I've talked about this quite a bit. I used to do this. This thing, we called it Pizza Hut nationalism, where even though Pizza Hut wouldn't necessarily count as a third space, but it was sort of like third spaces were places that you were going to that it wasn't work, it wasn't school, and it also wasn't home. And it was just a place that you would go to that you would existed where you would commune with people, where you would meet people and you'd sort of bump into people from in, you know, in the real world. And you weren't. You weren't just there to, like, pick up something and leave or you would actually spend time. And churches are a great example of third spaces. So churches are sort of one of the only ones left. But with the death of malls, you. You really lost this communal gathering place. So that used to be the town square. It used to be just sort of your. Your community center. And we've totally lost that in real life. I mean, these were places where you could go on a date. It's where you could meet your girlfriend or boyfriend. It's where you could spend time without mom and dad, like totally looking over your shoulder when you were, you know, a teenager, but you were still in a generally, you know, controlled, safe environment. And to be sure, you know, part of. There's a lot of factors at play here in all these things. The death of malls. The Internet certainly played a huge role in that. Financialization played a huge role in that. The rise of crime has played a massive role. But specifically for the Mall of America, I just don't think that you can accurately tell that story if you don't include the massive influx of Somali migrants that took place in over the last 15, 20 years. You just. You just can't talk about the story of them all. And this, in a sense, is sort of a microcosm of America writ large. That, you know, there it was this incredible, you know, and just. Just play those. Play the B roll again, guys, as we're talking about it. This. This was in our lifetime that places like this existed. And they were great and they were fun. And, you know, you could go there and. And go shopping and get a book to read and go pick up something and meet some people and eat some food, do whatever. And you didn't have to worry about crime. You didn't have to worry about getting your children thrown off of the top railing. And just stories like that were just completely unheard of.
- [82:23]
Andrew Klavan
I should. I Should correct before it gets clicked by someone. It was not a Somali migrant who did that. That was a false story that spread on the Internet. So I want to correct fake news. It was just a normal crazy person, I guess. So I wanted to throw that out there, but still shouldn't have been thrown off the balcony.
- [82:39]
Tyler Boyer
Well, and this is like what you're talking about, Jack, is thanks for that correction, Blake. Good work. Way to self clean up there. But what you're talking about in those third places is like what we saw in a lot of the sitcoms and stuff like that on tv, right? Like it's like that's the Arnold's drive in from Happy Days. That's the Max from Saved by the Bell. That's like the bell. That's. That's like we have talked about this before on, on the show where it's like those existed central perk in Friends. Central perk and Friends, right. Like those monks restaurant. Those weren't created on Seinfeld. Those weren't created on sitcoms. Those. Those were actually a part of American American life. And they kind of don't really exist anymore. Like, you know, the fast food, like, especially post Covid. One of the things, the horrifying things is like they've opened up all these restaurants now, including Chick Fil A's that they don't even have a dine in. It's like they don't even want that. They want you to drive through or pick up or get delivered on apps. And you know, this goes back to kind of the very 1984 stuff that we talk about, which is. Yeah, what is the ultimate goal of some of the overlords that are out there? And it's like human interaction actually turns out to be really bad for people who want to control you. Like they don't want you.
- [84:00]
Andrew Klavan
I really think people. It's sad to say, but I think people choose this. Like people choose to not go out.
- [84:06]
Tyler Boyer
I think people choose it at times, right. Like the antisocial. Whatever you want to. I'm too fast paced. I've got too much going on, especially in Americanism. But the point is, is that it is easier to control people when you have less of that.
- [84:20]
Andrew Klavan
It is. But I just.
- [84:21]
Tyler Boyer
That's like what the Soviets.
- [84:22]
Andrew Klavan
It makes me think of like, you know, I think it's so easy to say like, oh, they want to control us and people just don't want to confront the fact. Well, they stay inside a lot. Like what do people. What are people doing with their time? They're Watching huge amounts of TV, whether it's literal TV, they'll be like, oh, I don't watch TV. But you watch five hours of YouTube videos and live streams a day and all of that. Like TikToks. Yeah. If you're, if you're watching two hours of TikToks a day, like you are just watching two hours of television, except like even dumber than usual television.
- [84:50]
Tyler Boyer
And you can't even talk about it because you have nothing to talk about.
- [84:52]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. Then there's nothing to talk about. Yeah. So like, and people are like choosing to doordash their food rather than go eat it in a place. And I think it's, it's too simple to just say like, oh, like mass migration or whatever killed them all. I think it played a role in killing a lot of them. But a lot of it is just people are kind of, they're retreating from living lives out in public and they're retreating from socialization. And that is an unfortunate reality we have to reckon with.
- [85:25]
Blake Neff
And, but you can't, you can't just say that's happening because, and I agree there are more distractions online, but that's also because the public spaces have absolutely detached, deteriorated. And in places like the Mall of America, you know, it's definitely. Migration plays a huge role.
- [85:44]
Jack Posobiec
Conscious thing. I think it's a subconscious thing when you, when you, you go out and you subconsciously don't recognize or feel like you're part of that community. When you think your third places, like your parks and your public spaces and your public pools and your malls, they don't feel comfortable anymore. They don't feel safe. Safe. You, you just, it's probably a slight change of behavior of degrees over years. And then before you know it, enough people are feeling the same thing that they've retreated from those, those spots. At least in a place that's, that's to a level that then becomes really obvious. And then there's a degradation of like normal, hard working, law abiding normal people in those places. And so then they go to other places. Maybe they go to more exclusive places. Maybe it's the country club, maybe it's higher end restaurants. But then you start seeing this effect that everything starts costing more because our free stuff is no longer palatable for a large part of the population. You could call those people racist if you want, or you could just get to the point where, guess what? It's called cultural displacement. And it's real. Now this is a point I made before, but when you talk about the urban core. And all of a sudden it starts gentrifying and money starts pouring in and you get all these Atlantic articles or New Yorker articles about the cultural displacement of the urban poor and how they can't afford their home anymore. Well, you get sympathy for those people. But when you have however many tens of millions of immigrants that have come in through the third world over the last three or four decades, and all of a sudden people that grew up in this country no longer recognize their neighbors and you just call them racist. Well, you know, they've been culturally displaced too. So don't be surprised when their public places are no longer frequented by native born Americans.
- [87:35]
Blake Neff
Yeah, that book, there was a book, Bowling Alone that came out I think in 2000 or 2001 that talks about that Robert Putnam that really gets into this and it talked about how it just mentioned, you know, it started about talking about bowling, but it used bowling as a sort of a linchpin for a microcosm of civic societies. And so communities had civic societies and civic societies like the PTA or the Federation of Women's Voters, Boy Scouts, Red Cross, like all these different things. And that as, and one of those was, was bowling leagues. And one of the things they pointed out that more and more, more Americans from the 1960s on were not joining bowling leagues and the teams and club. Which is funny because I remember my mom and my dad used to have a bowling night. And I've talked before about how I lived in a town that was completely destroyed by illegal immigration when they became a sanctuary city. And my mom and my dad used to have their own bowling balls and we're on a bowling team and they would have bowling night. And that, that bowling alley has, is now getting like shot up because people from Philly are coming out there and like gangs are settling beefs because they know people are there. And so people don't really show up for the bowling league anymore. And, and what it ends up then what they end up doing is that they are bowling alone. So people will, will go out and then it's, you know, to do bowling, but you're either bowling alone or just with a couple of friends. But this, this idea of the broader civic life just isn't existing anymore to the extent where, you know, these, these third places like a bowling alley can only be sustained through, through entertainment or adding non bowling features. But the idea of the bowling league just isn't something that exists anymore. In the same way.
- [89:31]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah, and, and this is, I mean I, I have conversations with my friends that are all, you know, everyone's in their mid-30s at this point, mid to late 30s. And they're all talking about, you know, things that they remember, even their parents used to do. And it's like they're starting to have those conversations like, why don't we go do things? Why aren't there? I mean, there used to be, like, men's and women's clubs that, like, adults used to be part of that were very prevalent. And I'm not saying they don't exist. They certainly exist in some communities. But for millennials, millennials are kind of figuring out now, it's like, holy crap. All the stuff that we grew up with is kind of gone. All the things that our parents grew up with are kind of gone. What do you do? And you have to have some creativity and some people that will do it. But part of this has been kind of the eradication of religion for sure. So the eradication of religion in a lot of communities has led to a lot of this. There's been the assertion that politics supersedes everything else. Right. And that's like, where, again, people have just kind of just brain numbed everybody. It's closing those. Those third spaces that you mentioned, Jack, where they just don't really exist anymore, you know, and like, again, like, bring up Covid. Covid, I think, you know, killed and changed a lot of, you know, I don't know if we've, like, totally embraced it or recognized it. Like, how much of society changed post Covid. Covid changed dramatically. So many things that we forgot about all the time. Like, I'll be talking with my wife. I'll be like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, we used to do that. Like, why, like, that happened. It took, like three years for people to start going to movies again, and it still hasn't recovered. So, like, there just is a world today that has to be, like, there has to be a pretty well defined decision by, I think, conservative millennials and Gen Z that are going to say, hey, we have to recreate a society that integrates all of this, and you have to participate, want to participate with it. And to Blake's point, I don't know if they will. Like, I don't know if people will, if they'll. They'll decide to or not.
- [91:35]
Andrew Klavan
I think we're.
- [91:36]
Tyler Boyer
It's probably going to have to. You're going to edge up to it.
- [91:38]
Andrew Klavan
I think we're actually effectively going through, like, a selection mechanism that we're just living through, and we'll just have to come out the other end, like, everyone used to sort of just have kids by default. We are now selecting for people who, like, actively want kids because they're the only ones who are going to have them. Yep. And I think we're probably going to also, like, select for people who, like, actually create community. Because if you don't, you're just going to kind of isolate and, like, die off, and we're going to get a lot of that.
- [92:04]
Tyler Boyer
I've told people I have. I have an idea. I want to reinstitute a lot of things that, like modern versions of a lot of these, like, third places that exist. But, you know, they're just. It's just going to be interesting to see if it's. If it's plausible, possible. But one of the places, like I talk with my grandparents, my parents, at length, and I even remember when I was growing up it still existed was again, there's drive in movie theaters, things like that, like, where it was just like a place to be seen. The things that you do, like, the. The aura that was kind of around all of that. None of those places really exist anymore. Like, I literally. They. Like, there's so few places that exist where, you know, people get excited about those things or they're just like the known. Go to places in your community, in your neighborhood, they just aren't as big anymore. And like, we even talk about, you know, we've talked about this before on, you know, the. The international thing, right. With people, migrants coming in. Like, a lot of our parks, like, you know, don't feel like home. The stores don't feel like home. Those, you know, places that were once kind of the places of community have kind of turned into worlds. Like, is this a third world country? Is this. You know, I don't even recognize someone speaking English here anymore. And that's problematic, especially when you look at a society. It's like, where are all these displaced people going? What are they doing? What are they doing with their time? And that ultimately leads to higher crime. It leads to, you know, breakdown in family, community. Because again, like, if dads don't have places to take their kids. Right. Like, parents don't have places to take their kids, what's going to happen? Where do they go? What do they do? They're not doing anything. Right. They're not doing enough to really lean into their families. And so that's a big. That's a big difference. That's a big difference with how society looked just a couple decades ago to where it is today.
- [94:00]
Jack Posobiec
Well, let's not be so black pilled because you can still do it. And by the way, listen, I think economic growth, getting serious about enforcing crime, you know, penalties on crime, accountability, these things can turn around communities, make them safe again. We saw this with the revitalization of Times Square. And Blake, to some of your points you've made, it's like, listen, we went through a crime wave in the 60s, 70s and 80s and early 90s that got corrected with a country that we all are talking about, you know, in glowing terms. And maybe there's a little rose colored glasses here, but we went through a crime wave during those decades that wasn't turned around until the policing surge of the mid-90s. And you saw that in LA, you saw that in New York and metropolitan metropolises all across the country. More police, less crime. And then you saw this flood of investment that poured into the cities and you saw them turn around. And then it became, you know, then we went through a reverse cycle that started in 2014, a little bit maybe before that, but really 2014 with the, with the Ferguson and then George Floyd 2020 and then Spike in urban crime. And so these things do tend to fluctuate. People forget the lessons of the past and they go back and they repeat the same mistakes and then you have to learn the old lessons again. So, you know, I'm a big fan of lots of police and, and that can really change and turn things around.
- [95:29]
Blake Neff
So which is what they did in New York City, which is exactly what they did in New York City to make it so safe as it is now, which was absolutely the right answer. And I really do think that America is under policed and beyond that, it's not just under police, but it's also with the situation. You had the migrants on top of that, the massive invasion, you had the influx of, of this. And then you add like the Soros prosecutors and this whole idea that, oh, you know, it's, you know, you only shoplifted less than $1,000, so it's totally fine. Or you know, you get sent right back out on the street with the, you know, revolving door prosecutions and homelessness all over the street. I mean it is, it is just visible. I can remember in my, I can remember in my lifetime and I'll drop this off here, but in Philadelphia, so you guys know that, that area of Philadelphia, Kensington, where they always show like the fentanyl zombies walking around, you know what I'm talking about? So that used to be called, that's called K A and the Ken Kensington And Allegheny Corners. And that used to be like a shopping area that you could go. And I can remember in my lifetime going there with my parents on like Sunday or whatever and just going shopping like after church, like that. That was just a normal place to go out and get some water ice. And it was totally, totally safe. And it wasn't like that. And so all of these quality of life issues have occurred during our lifetimes.
- [97:00]
Jack Posobiec
So I talked to Gen Xers about this, Right. And they kind of. They describe themselves like the free range kids, you know, latchkey kids. They would just kind of go ride their bikes after school, run around the neighborhood. You'd never see them until dinner time. Right. And that was considered safe back then. Why is that not considered safe anymore? Blake.
- [97:18]
Blake Neff
Thank you.
- [97:19]
Andrew Klavan
Thank you.
- [97:20]
Jack Posobiec
If you're going to look at the macro trends, is it just because paranoid parents have become paranoid because of social media and they see one bad story and then they, they sort of overreact and they helicopter parent their kids? Or is there this growing sentiment that like, you can't trust your community anymore? It's been, it's change. It's changed for the worst. I'm asking you, Blake.
- [97:42]
Andrew Klavan
Oh, sorry. I was totally distracted. I was looking up New York.
- [97:45]
Jack Posobiec
Did you hear what I said? Yeah, just when we were kids, we ran around the neighborhood in our bikes. Yeah, well, they do.
- [97:53]
Andrew Klavan
But like, that didn't stop because it got unsafe. That stopped because parents just decided to like, not allow it anymore. Like they became paranoid. That's actually what it is in my town.
- [98:02]
Blake Neff
It definitely stopped because it got unsafe.
- [98:04]
Andrew Klavan
Nah, like people, people. I bet people are less free to run around in the absolute safest parts of America. Their parents still won't let them do it.
- [98:13]
Tyler Boyer
I think I agree with you, Blake, that the paranoia of disaster is just more in your face. Like people are more aware of things that go wrong.
- [98:21]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. And things broke down in terms of, well, now you'll get in trouble if you do it. And so the social sanction against it is greater and people don't want to be thought of as bad or negligent parents. We had everything related to like the child abuse kind of, I'll be frank, like panic of the 80s and that, that increased paranoia, like the child abuse.
- [98:43]
Tyler Boyer
Thing is like a real thing.
- [98:44]
Andrew Klavan
It's just like parents are not calling.
- [98:46]
Tyler Boyer
CPS on your neighbors.
- [98:47]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. And like the simple truth is, is like you'll get in trouble if you let your kid like roam around too much. And that is going to apply even more in the places that are absolutely the safest. Like, in the end, I think people have to hear like a lot of stuff that they reminisce about is they just kind of have nostalgia for a period that. Because they were just 12 at the time, and in some ways it was better, but a lot of the stuff was not better. People just lived differently. And you could choose to live differently today, but people collectively don't.
- [99:18]
Jack Posobiec
I agree with that somewhat, Blake. I agree with that somewhat.
- [99:20]
Andrew Klavan
It's like a crime. Like people, okay, if you are nostalgic for the 1950s, you're nostalgic for a period where America had way less crime. If you're nostalgic for 1990, which. Or 1986, and a lot of people are, you're nostalgic for a period where America had tons of crime. And it also, frankly, you're.
- [99:40]
Blake Neff
I think you're making a category error, Blake, because America didn't have tons more crime everywhere, but it actually did.
- [99:48]
Andrew Klavan
Like a big part of America's decline of crime is more.
- [99:51]
Blake Neff
A lot more random stranger crime. That's done now.
- [99:54]
Andrew Klavan
No, I think actually that was like the peak of stranger crime.
- [99:58]
Blake Neff
People going home, you know what they call them, the homebreak. Like, like follow home, follow home, break ins and stuff like that.
- [100:07]
Andrew Klavan
Those happen today, but those happened then too in like for various ways. There was just. There was just a lot more crime back then and people kind of got along and there was more random crimes. Like in your like, own community. Like a big reason crime has actually dropped so much. It's like, yes, like the black crime rate went down, but like the white crime rate also went down, like actually quite a lot from 1990 to today. So like safe suburbs, like the safe middle class suburb got safer and middle or classer from 1990 until like the present. And like, in general, there's a lot of that and people like, you know, murder, you know, if it bleeds, it leads. People see crime on television and they react to it. And there have been moments where we have had terrifying spikes. 2020 was bad. Thousands of people are dead because of the 2020 crime spike. But I don't think it's accurate to say people don't go outside today because it was Safe in like 1990 and it's not safe today. Yeah, people don't go outside today because people don't want to go outside.
- [101:07]
Tyler Boyer
Violent crime per 100,000 spiked. Its highest ever was in right around 1990. It was 758.1 for every 100,000. And now it's at 372. So it's essentially half of what it was. But, like, it was. It dramatically increased from 1980 to 1990 and has dramatically decreased since. Since then.
- [101:29]
Andrew Klavan
Yeah. And that's overall a good thing. We shouldn't let it return.
- [101:33]
Jack Posobiec
I do think that Jack has a point, though. I feel like crime was a little bit. And Blake, maybe you've got specific data that backs this up. I don't. I don't know. I'm looking for it. I can't find it. But it does feel like crime was isolated to certain parts a little bit better, easier. It was easier to avoid crime riddled places, and now it feels like it's less easy to do that.
- [101:59]
Andrew Klavan
If anything, I suspect crime is probably more specifically centered on a handful of places, and that includes like, the spillover, like, crazy stuff in San Francisco where like, like homeless junkies. But in general, it's like crime kind of collapsed in areas that are not like major crime hotspots in the United States. So, for example, like, the bad parts of Baltimore have actually, I think, a higher murder rate today than they even had in the 90s. The bad parts of, like, I think New Orleans actually broke records for its murder rate during the Floyd surge. Broke records that existed in the 90s. But overall, like, the national crime rate was. Remained a lot lower. And so I think a lot of that is the passive crime rate in your random middle class areas went from like, pretty low to, like, extremely low. It's definitely true today that you can, like, avoid the bad parts of America with. With trivial ease. I don't think any of, like, frankly, I don't think any of us live in fear that we'll, like, be victims of random crime. And I even. I even go to the. What's the, like, the Arizona Mills Mall that's near here that everyone, like, claims is relatively dangerous. I'm like, nothing ever happens at this mall. And, you know, maybe I'm missing it or something.
- [103:13]
Jack Posobiec
Well, I hope you're right, Blake. I hope you're right.
- [103:15]
Blake Neff
I actually saw somebody selling fentanyl in front of that mall once when I was out there for. For like, one of these? For sure.
- [103:21]
Tyler Boyer
Stuff happens at that mall, for sure.
- [103:24]
Blake Neff
I woke up, I was. I was on the phone with Producer.
- [103:27]
Jack Posobiec
Five, and I was like, ryan, wait.
- [103:28]
Blake Neff
Isn'T there a street club, like, right across the street from there too?
- [103:32]
Jack Posobiec
Ryan goes, omg, Blake, that mall is so bad. Shootings all the time, People always getting jumped.
- [103:38]
Andrew Klavan
I ain't ever heard the shootings.
- [103:39]
Tyler Boyer
Like, we're just. We're Going to put body cameras all over you. So this will be. In addition, this will be the. Yeah, I come up with shows all the time that Blake should do. Yeah, this show should be Blake at Arizona Mills mall where body cameras.
- [103:51]
Andrew Klavan
We should. We should do like a Mr. Beast style thing. Like I get like pay me like $1,000 a day for how long I can live in the Arizona Mills mall.
- [103:59]
Blake Neff
How long you get.
- [104:00]
Tyler Boyer
You get a certain amount of money per hour until you see a crime. Until someone spots a crime on your body.
- [104:06]
Andrew Klavan
What if it's occurring but I totally don't notice it cuz I'm like, I'm on my phone. I'm just looking at my phone too intently and I like don't see the mugging or the shooting that's happening right in front of me. I. I just want they. They'll have one of those like mall food court meltdowns and there's like hundreds of people throwing punches and I'm just kind of like walking through not noticing.
- [104:22]
Tyler Boyer
Blake's just like literally.
- [104:24]
Jack Posobiec
Blake has sparked a conversation with our tech team. Even they're saying literally a shooting in the food court at the start of the year. Blake, it's like the sex trafficking hub of Arizona. What is that strip club across the street?
- [104:38]
Blake Neff
Wait, wait, do you guys have there a curfew? It just means there's a lot of teen curfew there.
- [104:43]
Andrew Klavan
Oh, they should just say that. Like that's not.
- [104:46]
Blake Neff
Because a lot of.
- [104:47]
Andrew Klavan
I think they count Arizona Mills. Or is it just that never existed. There's like a club near here that.
- [104:53]
Tyler Boyer
Well, there is a strip club across the street from it.
- [104:55]
Blake Neff
Yeah, it's a strip club. That sounds like that's probably. It's like a gentleman's establishment.
- [104:59]
Andrew Klavan
I mean that would probably mean Arizona grand is the hub because I think.
- [105:02]
Jack Posobiec
That'S where they take data shows that are less violent.
- [105:06]
Tyler Boyer
We can't lose our. Our ability to put people in Arizona Grant. But here's what. Here's what. They probably during the day spend their time at the mall and at nights they're at the strip Club or the McDonald's. One of the two.
- [105:18]
Andrew Klavan
Okay.
- [105:18]
Tyler Boyer
Or the donut shop.
- [105:19]
Andrew Klavan
I'm not in a crispy things. There's a Krispy Kreme that's recent though. That's newly.
- [105:22]
Jack Posobiec
Well, Blake. Blake has data that proves that proves that strip clubs are less violent than they used to be in the 80s and they probably are. So they can easily walk around strip club without getting mugged. Now because of the precipitous Drop in violent crime, less cocaine today. That's probably true, actually. All right, well, there we go.
- [105:47]
Blake Neff
Now we're getting into real thought crime territory. So I think we might. We. This is probably our longest episode ever, I think.
- [105:53]
Tyler Boyer
Yeah. Charlie's not here.
- [105:54]
Jack Posobiec
Charlie.
- [105:55]
Blake Neff
This is what happens. Which Charlie's gonna come back and be like, what did you.
- [105:59]
Tyler Boyer
Why did you guys do a four hour episode?
- [106:01]
Blake Neff
Why'd you guys do a four hour episode about crime at strip clubs?
- [106:07]
Jack Posobiec
Well, this is a perfect time to wrap it up because we have some Solomon and Trump interview coming out. Yeah.
- [106:13]
Blake Neff
That's going to be starting in just a couple of minutes.
- [106:16]
Jack Posobiec
Yep.
- [106:17]
Blake Neff
So I think we should wrap. We had some other topics. We will get to those at a later time. Any. Any last thoughts? Anyone? Go around the horn?
- [106:27]
Jack Posobiec
Yeah.
- [106:27]
Tyler Boyer
You know, I just wanted to say I think we shouldn't have any more Somalian mayors. I just want to put that on record. I think we should just elect Americans. I know that's.
- [106:39]
Jack Posobiec
But he is American. He is American, Tyler. He was born here, apparently. Well, that's flawless.
- [106:45]
Tyler Boyer
0Tbd. I don't know. He was talking about. He was talking about Homeland in that clip a lot.
- [106:51]
Jack Posobiec
So Jackie does look. He does look like the I'm the captain now.
- [106:56]
Andrew Klavan
He looks like.
- [106:56]
Blake Neff
He looks like I'm the captain now guy. That tweet went super viral. Super viral.
- [107:01]
Jack Posobiec
Whoops. All right.
- [107:07]
Blake Neff
Blake.
- [107:08]
Andrew Klavan
Do I have to have. I was just thinking about the fact that if we did the, like, crime and strip clubs, thought crimes, it would be like the other spelling of.
- [107:15]
Tyler Boyer
Well, that could be. The other show that we do is we could send you the body cameras to the strip club.
- [107:19]
Andrew Klavan
You're just coming up, like, we're just gonna need a whole show of like. Like a live stream of. Tyler generates, like, weird experiences to inflict on me.
- [107:29]
Jack Posobiec
This is what got me.
- [107:30]
Tyler Boyer
I just think you're a really interesting person, and we could. We could create a channel around you.
- [107:34]
Andrew Klavan
Like, I feel like nothing would dispel the idea that I'm interesting faster than, like, putting a camera on my body 24 7.
- [107:41]
Tyler Boyer
It'd be like Truman.
- [107:43]
Jack Posobiec
You have to have Ryan edit it.
- [107:44]
Tyler Boyer
But say you do weird to do weird stuff all the time, so. All right, Andrew.
- [107:51]
Jack Posobiec
All right. My. My rap is that I can't wait to watch the Solomon and Trump interview.
- [107:56]
Blake Neff
Good.
- [107:56]
Jack Posobiec
Because I'm fascinated. Jack, take us home.
- [108:01]
Blake Neff
They're not American. I'm just saying it. They're not American. Don't tell me that piece of paper makes them American. They're not American. Ladies and gentlemen, as always, go out there and commit more thought crimes.
- [108:13]
Jack Posobiec
Thought crime is death.
- [108:14]
Blake Neff
Is death.
- [108:15]
Andrew Klavan
Is death.