Tyler (3:16)

Secretly think that this was Charlie's favorite show of the week.

Andrew (3:19)

Oh, for sure it was. I mean, well, Charlie liked to get stuff off his chest, so he liked his monologue in hour one a lot. And sometimes he was actually annoyed by the time we got to the C block. And we usually had a guest scheduled in the C block and he, you know, kind of change.

Jack (3:34)

Yeah.

Andrew (3:34)

I have so much more, I want to say, limited to one. I have so much more I want to say.

Tyler (3:38)

So you're like, charlie, it's a senator. I've been like booking everything.

Blake (3:42)

There was a headline just today. Jack told me about in USA Today. Charlie Kirk reveled in thought crime. What were his views on the issue? Yeah, so it's actually just about his views.

Tyler (3:53)

Yeah. Usa. It mentions the show, but not directly.

Andrew (3:56)

Well, this show gave him so many headaches. It gave me so many headaches because. Because people like, didn't get the shtick. It was like, we're talking about forbidden things. Guys. This is the whole point. Like, we don't cover. It's not a breaking news show. It's. It's an in depth show. It's a controversial show. And yeah, we wrestle with things. Like, it was interesting because debate show. Well, you and Charlie would get into some great little like ideological debates.

Tyler (4:22)

I mean, like, that was like sparring. So before he gets out on campus, of course.

Andrew (4:25)

No, and I told people that. I told people that. I said the media that Charlie was doing on a daily basis his own show and thought crimes was reps. Reps. It was repetitions. And he was getting. He would hone his ideas. And Blake and Charlie and I usually would be arguing in the chat while he was, you know, first reacting to something. And then, you know, he would kind of.

Tyler (4:50)

You.

Andrew (4:50)

If you actually know the truth. The truth is he would kind of correct course over the. Over a two hour period in the morning. So by the time he's doing, you know, Will Kane show or Jesse. Jesse Waters or he's debating, he has had all this ramp up to get, you know, to perfect his presentation. And then it was just like, boom. And so this show was a really important part of that. And it was interesting because we. We did debate a lot of things and we will debate a lot of things that are verboten. And Charlie Loved that because it was an outlet. And by the way, when Charlie knew that the media was gonna take and twist something, he, he had us to be like, I'm not going in all you guys did. But Charlie would be on the chat going, oh, interesting, you know, like dropping his, his unvarnished thoughts in the chat.

Tyler (5:38)

He'd be like, Jack, go all the way.

Andrew (5:40)

Yeah. So, and, and because Charlie eventually came to realize that he was viewed as an appendage of President Trump and a spokesman for the admin. So if he said something, it was going to be far too, too explosive. But he also knew Blake could say something and it would just be, it would just be good for our audience to hear it. Or Tyler.

Tyler (5:58)

But the main idea is that, you know, a lot of the issues that we've been facing as a, as a country, in the movement, I mean these are issues that are still kind of open, right? These are like not, it's not settled science yet. And so thought crime has always been a place to just sort of hash it out. And we're just, we're just hashing out. I'm going to make this point, I'm going to make that the flag burning debate is just the most recent example I could think of. And you could tell like he was like, yeah, good points there and some.

Andrew (6:27)

Good points here because Israel is like always so top of mind and it's become even more so. So after Charlie's assassination, it's like, if you wanna understand how Charlie was feeling about Israel, look at that flag burning debate as a good example of how he would wrestle through intellectually through what he actually thought because, but also listening, listening. He was debating and he was like, yeah, but. And he would ask questions and he would force you to defend your point so that he could see how good it was and he would poke holes in it. And then he probably somewhere along the way ended up about 60, 40 on it. And you know, it came to a relative conclusion. But it, you know, and that's probably, you know, it's like I, I've been asked this question a couple times the last couple days. I'm like, well, Charlie loved Israel, he loved the Jewish people, loved the Holy Land, but he just wanted to be able to be able to criticize Bibi Netanyahu without being labeled an anti Semite.

Tyler (7:21)

And he's also, he's also generally not a huge war guy, you know.

Andrew (7:26)

Oh, he's vehemently anti war.

Tyler (7:28)

And so, and so, you know, is there a tension there? Obviously, obviously, yeah. And so it's like, where do you draw that line? When JD was hosting the other day, he talked about this with, you know, with Iran. Like, JD specifically mentioned how, you know, a lot of these stories that have never been told that it's like, well, Charlie was a huge role in that debate. Charlie was playing a huge role behind the scenes. He. He made his voice clear. He, you know, carried the voice of the people, the voter, Gen Z. Charlie.

Andrew (8:00)

Was on a lot of group chats. As are you, Jack. As am I. As we are. But Charlie was on, like. Charlie was on, like, I don't even have a phone. Charlie was on, like, a billion group chats. And somehow the guy was able to read everything, respond to it and make progress on it. You know, like, even in the middle of the shows, he was reading his emails.

Tyler (8:19)

Well, I wanna. I wanna ask Tyler about that, actually, because. So Tyler, like, having known Charlie from the very start of Turning Point, as, you know, an activist for four ideas, did you ever think Charlie would morph into this, like, thought leader for the movement as opposed to, like, being like a foot soldier?

Andrew (8:38)

I love that question. Good question.

Tyler (8:40)

Yeah.

Jack (8:40)

You know, that's really interesting. No, and here's the reason why I was just telling. I was. I was just laughing at Lauren about this the other day because I remember back in the day, I used to be like. It was like, again, it was like discipleship. Like, the early disciples were Andrew and Stacy and a few others. Like, a lot of people that you'll see right along the way, and this whole group, obviously. But as everyone was joining, it was like, it alleviated pressure off of me because I had this blessing for so long, for, like, the first few years, just to be alone with Charlie. Like, we would go places, we'd drive places, and we'd see people. And I remember I was laughing with Lauren about this because I remember, like, the very beginning when people first started stopping Charlie, like, very intermittently. Like, the very early, like. And I thought they were such weird people because I was like, how the heck do you know Charlie, Kirk?

Tyler (9:37)

I'm like, first thought crime of the night.

Andrew (9:39)

I felt the same thing. I have my mind.

Jack (9:41)

And you remember, like, it was.

Andrew (9:42)

I remember the first time I saw somebody stop Charlie. It was in an airport and somebody, like, quietly gave him a fist bump. And I was like, oh, man, that was so weird.

Jack (9:50)

And I remember that too. When, When. But I remember, like, the very early days. Like, nobody would. Like, we would go to places and, like, nobody would recognize them. And then it started, like, I'd be like, that's really weird. And so, no, I could never envision that, because I knew Charlie the way, like, the young Charlie that nobody knew. And he blossomed into this massive, you know, inescapable thought leader, right, like, where it's like, his thoughts were so good, were so meaningful, so impactful with determining how people thought about the news of the day. Because of his show, because of the podcast, because of Twitter. Twitter. I mean, it started with Twitter. That was the thing he was most proud of in the beginning, right? That he was kind of known as, like, the Chicago kid who grew this Twitter account. How did. How did he do it? But it. He really blossomed to all that. And. And what's so cool about him is he did all that, and he never stopped doing the activist work, right? Like, up until, like, the day he.

Tyler (10:50)

Died, which he very easily could have.

Jack (10:52)

He easily could have said, I'm not gonna do the campus stuff anymore. Like, I don't have to do that stuff.

Andrew (10:57)

I've graduated from that. Let somebody else do it.

Jack (10:59)

Of course, too much going on. I have way too much going on with the show. Like, everything else is too important. He could have just sat right here in a very safe environment, Very, extremely safe environment, and he chose not to. That is, like, that's why.

Tyler (11:14)

Probably. Probably been a little more lucrative doing that, too, honestly.

Jack (11:17)

But this is why I just want to finish this thought. This is why, like, all week long, I've just had this feeling, this poll, like, he is. He was so much like the apostles that he loved and studied so much was because they went into the crowds, they went into the people, and what. What was their. What. What happened to all of them?

Tyler (11:34)

We know they were all murdered.

Jack (11:36)

They were all literally murdered and banished from society because they did not stop doing that work. And to me, that. That's the exact definition of what a martyr is. A martyr is a person isn't just martyred because they have thoughts and da, da, da, and whatever, and someone comes to their home and kills them in their sleep at night, in the middle of the night. No, a true martyr is a person that does the work, that wears the work on their sleeve, and they do not stop doing it. So much so that literally evil itself has to perniciously take them off the face of the earth. And that is what. That is the definition of Charlie Kirk. And that is why it is such a great. A great comparison analogy to the work that the apostles did, because, again, he always put God first. It wasn't conservative politics that wiped him out. It was God, People don't realize.

Andrew (12:25)

Charlie got bored by politics. He really liked.

Blake (12:28)

That's why he'd always do that joke. I just want to go coach college football.

Andrew (12:31)

Yeah.

Tyler (12:31)

He always said that.

Blake (12:32)

Admittedly, I'm really sad now. Like, what if he tried? What if he was, like, bad at it and then we'd, like, make fun.

Tyler (12:36)

Of him or like. Or like, he would always do that. Well, he.

Jack (12:39)

I'll say it.

Andrew (12:40)

He would have been bad at first.

Tyler (12:41)

He would always.

Andrew (12:42)

And dig in and get really.

Tyler (12:43)

Well. He would always say it when we were, like, with our backs up against the wall, like, something wasn't really going our way. And he's like, I'm just gonna restart. I'm gonna be.

Andrew (12:51)

I'm gonna text.

Tyler (12:52)

I'm gonna be.

Andrew (12:52)

He texts me. He goes, I quit. I give up. I retire.

Tyler (12:56)

College football coach. It was starting the bottom.

Blake (12:58)

So he doesn't need to be good at the strategy.

Andrew (13:00)

Yeah.

Blake (13:00)

Recruitment, which he's good at.

Andrew (13:02)

He would have been a great recruiter.

Jack (13:03)

Charlie, in our private chats all the time, anything. He would be like, I quit. I give up on this thing.

Tyler (13:09)

And it was college football.

Jack (13:10)

He would put all his heart into something politically.

Andrew (13:12)

Yeah. You know, he'd. But the things to go one way, and then somebody would come out. But the point is stupid. I quit.

Tyler (13:19)

When he was saying that, like, he would say it to us as a way of venting because he knew he would never quit.

Andrew (13:26)

He was never gonna quit. We never thought.

Tyler (13:28)

You just have to get it out and then. All right, I'm going back and if it gets it out.

Andrew (13:32)

Yeah.

Tyler (13:32)

Andrew, I know you've got to leave in a couple of minutes, but just in the time that we still have with us. How's Sunday looking, man?

Andrew (13:42)

Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. Sunday it is. I mean, it's a who's who. It's like, you know, the president's gonna be there, the vice president, Marco Rubio, Pete Hegseth, Susie Wiles, Sergio Gore. Who am I missing? So many. I'm missing a lot. But, like, some of the team is gonna speak. We've got these amazing worship leaders that are gonna be. That are gonna kind of start off the. The. The time Don Jr. It's.

Blake (14:12)

It's.

Andrew (14:13)

It's amazing because it's literally, the biggest leaders in. In the country are going to be there to honor our friend that we did the show with. Like. Like, that's a bizarre juxtaposition when you think about it. Right?

Tyler (14:29)

Yeah.

Andrew (14:29)

And yet he was so humble that he would sit and spend time with us. You know, us, you know, and, you know, I think we're not bad people. We're, we're, we're, we're capable of a thing or two. But it was like, in retrospect, it just feels like, wow. The heads of states, ambassadors, like all the biggest media personalities you can imagine.

Tyler (14:52)

I can't even begin to list the amount of country, like people from different countries that have reached out to me this week, even know about Charlie.

Andrew (14:59)

That's the weird thing is, Blake and I really have spent a lot of time reflecting on this idea that Charlie Kirk was a modern prophet because. And I don't mean in the fortune telling sense. I saw some people, I tweeted it, and people were like, well, you gotta be careful because. And I'm like, no, no, in the biblical sense, the ones that when Jesus says, and you stoned the prophets, you killed the prophets. Because a prophet goes into a land that is burdened by a sin or by a lie, and the prophet goes in there and he says, repent. He says, here's the truth of God. Listen and be saved or reject it, and you will be destroyed, essentially. And when you tell people that the thing that you love so much, your sin, your lie will destroy you, they tend to not like you too much when you do that. And Charlie, in that very biblical sense was going into these college campuses, he was going around the country, he was on the show. But also Blake, I keep thinking about, like, his Oxford and Cambridge visits that you were there for. I was not there for those, by the way. That was so cool. Charlie was always like, andrew, you've got three little kids. Like, be with your family. You don't have to go. He would offer, you want to go. I would love for you to go. And I'd say, you know, the wife, the kids, oh, you don't have to go. It's fine. Somebody's got to do the show. So. But like, he went into, especially the UK because it's a little different in Japan, South Korea and Japan, where there's a language barrier. And you were there for that. And it's, it's great. But in London, we all can watch those interactions. And what I realized was he was going into those places and he said, repent London. Repent England. Remember who you are. Remember what God has made you. You are a great nation. Stand up for yourself. Find your spine, man. Like, and then. And they spit on him and they, they jeered at him like a scene straight out of, like, Christ and his passion. And they rejected him and he Tried to tell them to wake up and snap out of it and accept the things of God.

Tyler (17:03)

But. But it's. It's because that was seen and because he always stood on truth and surprised.

Andrew (17:12)

That wasn't the fire alarm beeping.

Tyler (17:14)

Yeah, that. And because he was killed for that.

Andrew (17:18)

He was killed because he's a prophet. And you know what else? I tweeted this as well. But we called them campus tours, but they were tent revivals.

Blake (17:26)

Had a tent.

Andrew (17:27)

But had we called them a tent revival, the people that Charlie wanted to speak to wouldn't have come. But they came anyways because they were these ideological collisions and debates where the truth met the lies and people were able to make up their own minds. And when we put it out on the Internet, it was billions and billions. People don't realize the scale of these videos.

Tyler (17:47)

I think 15 billion. Well, when you see.

Andrew (17:50)

In the fall alone, when you see.

Tyler (17:52)

The processions, the vigils, the worldwide impact. Yes, I think that's the. You know what's funny is that's the one thing that, like, everybody I talked to said, I didn't realize how big this was. Yeah, I had no idea.

Andrew (18:04)

We didn't fully either. But, you know, there's that Scripture verse where it says, and I keep thinking about this, and I haven't articulated this, so I'm glad I'm doing it here. Jesus says, you will do even greater things than these. And I'm not saying that Charlie was greater than Jesus, hear me? I'm saying that. That Jesus didn't have the Internet. Jesus didn't have it all captured on an iPhone, but we did. And it's, in a sense, Jesus is saying, look, there's going to be some stuff that happens that, like, I can't do because I'm, you know, I'm in Israel in 33 A.D. but Charlie Kirk's going to be in America in 2025.

Tyler (18:41)

I think that was motivating to the next level that's been passed on down through the ages in the way that. That in.

Blake (18:49)

Charlie picked that in Acts of the Apostles, it says, you know, they were ministering to thousands of people in these great wonders and they.

Tyler (18:56)

And they were dispatching and. And all the rest. Andrew, I'm looking at the time, man. Are you.

Andrew (19:00)

Yeah, it's. I could do a few more minutes. It's up to you guys. But I know we. We also have some other things we're up against. But I, I just. This show is so important. You guys are so important. I love you all. I mean, that from the bottom of my heart, how grateful I am that you guys are here with us and with me and that I get to be here with you in this time that we're not alone. And that the DNA that Charlie had in the show and has in all of us, like, it means a lot. And I. I was just like, I have no idea how I'm gonna fit in the show today, but we have to. We have to have all four of us on. And even.

Tyler (19:40)

Even for a Bri, I was like, it's gotta be. It's gotta be the four of us.

Andrew (19:44)

Yeah.

Tyler (19:45)

It's just it.

Jack (19:46)

Charlie's show. And I mean, going back to the history, we started doing this because we had so much fun on election nights.

Andrew (19:53)

Yeah, live streams.

Jack (19:55)

Yeah, our live streams. And there's so many people that reached out this week. They were like. They were in horror because they're like, I'm gonna miss you guys on election night. I'm gonna miss Charlie on election night, obviously, but I miss having all of you. And I think that this is part of it, is that, you know, I think we want to keep a lot of this going, not just for the show, which. The show. The Charlie Kirk show made Charlie Kirk, like, Hulk. The Hulk. Like, it just, like, it sends stuff through his veins. Like, nobody. Like, that was the game changer in Charlie's professional life was he loved his show, the reps. It was the reps. And he was such a. He loved his schedule. He loved staying on things and having a very. A very structured life. And the show was perfect for him because he used to fly all over the country. It was chaos all the time. And it, like, made him.

Andrew (20:44)

It made him stop from 12 to 2.

Jack (20:46)

And he was so good at it. But this. This show was so much fun because we were able to, like Andrea said so eloquently, was like, harness kind of everything that just came together at the end and have a little bit of a break from the norms, but.

Tyler (21:01)

And it focuses you.

Jack (21:02)

It's like a focusing revisiting that fun that we had on election night. And that's. That's not going to go away. We can't let that go away for Charlie.

Andrew (21:09)

This is where that famous viral video happened. And I'll never forget it was. Charlie just wouldn't believe it. We were seeing that Pennsylvania probably fell. Probably fell. Probably fell. Charlie's eps said, no, no, no.

Tyler (21:22)

Because in the chat, we were saying. We were saying it over and over and over.

Andrew (21:26)

Don't say it. Don't say it. So Charlie Knew for a minute. And then finally Fox called it, and it put this official stamp on it, and he just. His hands hit and he got emotional. And you made some joke about Erica was cutting onions in the kitchen or something.

Tyler (21:42)

Yeah.

Andrew (21:43)

And then Blake. You know, Blake isn't the most sentimental of. But when he gets. When he goes there, it, like, really hits. And that line where you said, if anybody deserves to get a little misty, I'm Charlie on.

Blake (21:56)

While Charlie's there.

Andrew (21:57)

Yeah, no, I'm sure. I'm sure. You've seen that clip so many times, you're like, why did I say it like this? And I could. Yeah. I mean. And I'm just glad because it was actually. I think it was Dallin or Brian. I forget who. But somebody was like, you need to get in there and be a part of this moment. And I was so glad they did. So my. My one moment in that clip is where I grabbed Charlie by the shoulder and you see my hand come in. In the. Like. And I just.

Tyler (22:20)

We've got pictures. We've got.

Andrew (22:21)

No, no, no, no. For sure. But that. That clip.

Tyler (22:23)

There we go.

Blake (22:23)

There's the hand.

Andrew (22:24)

Yeah, that hand was my hand. That hand was my hand. And, yeah, Erica does not have those.

Tyler (22:31)

Giant man names, Harry.

Andrew (22:34)

I think I might have walked in front of the camera there, too. But.

Jack (22:37)

Yeah, because you popped in and you were standing right there, which is kind of interesting, isn't that I saw that picture and I was like. Because Andrew's standing, like, basically right where we're sitting.

Blake (22:48)

People can't see in that clip.

Tyler (22:49)

And we switch it because I know you gotta run.

Blake (22:50)

We were leading up to the call, everyone in the office was trickling in, so they would all.

Jack (22:54)

Yeah, it was fun.

Andrew (22:56)

It was one of those moments where people were studio.

Tyler (22:59)

I don't know what it'll look like.

Andrew (23:01)

But the show will go.

Tyler (23:03)

We're gonna stream. We're gonna stream.

Andrew (23:04)

The show will go on. Because Charlie would have wanted it to. And more importantly than anything now, Erica has given us a very firm mandate that the show will go on. So I want you guys to all. Can we just reflect one sec before I leave? I know I gotta go, but this is too.

Tyler (23:24)

He was the one who said he had to go.

Andrew (23:29)

Before I leave. Erica Kirk. I actually quoted you on Alex Clark's podcast because you said, what a woman. And I mean, that is the best summation of Erica Kirk. It is, right? What a woman. Like, she is so fierce and lovely and strong and human and accessible. And she. I watched her conduct a Staff meeting. And it was just so human and so, like, just real. But it was somehow she managed to be very efficient and structured in her thinking and clear and morally clear. And she said all the things that she needed to say. It was just. It was a masterclass. And I just. We turned it off. And I was like, you know, I was like, you know, Charlie's looking down, like, a little jealous that how well you did that. And I also told this one story that the night it happened, Erica got a call from somebody very important. And out of respect for the. Out of respect for the person that was calling, I'm not going to say who it was, but it's just a very important person. She got a call, and the question was presented to her, what do you know? And it wasn't about Charlie's murder. It wasn't about this investigation or something. It was, like, about all this and Turning Point, how much do you know? And Erica Kirk goes, I know it all.

Tyler (25:10)

Whoa. I don't know it all.

Andrew (25:13)

And the person on the other line goes, okay, good. And I think I want everybody to know that Charlie shared with Erica, like, everything. She knew everything that was going on. She knew who the snakes were. She knew who the good guys were. She knew who the friends were. She knew who the people that you could trust her, and she knew what was going on here. And it's an amazing, amazing thing, because I do think Erica was called for just such a time as this. I think Charlie picked her because he knew she could thrive and survive in this type of environment. And granted, they started dating when his life was way less complicated than it got, but it was already kind of that way. So she knew and he knew what they were getting into. And so Erica's. Erica. What a woman. Blake said it right. And I'm so grateful that she has embraced this moment despite the unthinkable tragedy and grief around her. But for the sake of the country, for the sake of Turning Point, and for the sake of Charlie's legacy, Erica is more than up to the task.

Tyler (26:22)

Amen to that. Yeah, Andrew, I know you got a bounce, so we will. We will see you on the other side, my friend. And, well, I'm so glad we did this. As you take off, just to everyone else, the thought crimes will continue.

Andrew (26:39)

All right, I'll expect the inquiries from the. From the media. What did you say, Jack?

Jack (26:45)

Next week's Thought Crime actually is going to be the most rambunctious thought crime of all. It will be.

Tyler (26:50)

Well, now we get to do all the Stuff that Charlie kept shooting down.

Andrew (26:55)

We're gonna have to fire ourselves.

Jack (26:58)

Everything Charlie wanted to talk about, that we know, we'll talk about.

Tyler (27:01)

Oh, wait, no, you don't mean.

Jack (27:03)

Oh, yeah, no, I mean that you. Oh, yeah.

Tyler (27:05)

All right, all right, fine. I'm. I always wanted to.

Jack (27:10)

That's called cliffhanger.

Andrew (27:11)

Okay, all right, all right, all right. Graham still has a viable career.

Tyler (27:15)

Well, yeah, we'll switch you out. Graham Allen's in. We'll. We'll get him in.

Andrew (27:18)

Thank you, guys.

Erica Kirk (27:21)

I talk to a lot of young people on campuses at our events, on my radio show, podcast and social media. Media said differently. I visit college campuses so you don't have to. We're talking to so many voters that know it is time for change. They know that something is wrong. America's future is a series of choices. Our current state of slow motion national decline is a choice. Today is our two year old's birthday and I look at my daughter and that is my why. For those that are parents, you know exactly what I mean.

Andrew (28:06)

There is no mountain that stands tall as your faithfulness.

Tyler (28:15)

There is no river that runs wide as your goodness. Man, Charlie, I. I remember when we were starting these out and it was.

Erica Kirk (28:39)

That, like, that, you know, it was like this. It was like, it was like your average three rows.

Tyler (28:44)

It was like your average political meeting where there was like 12 people in a room. And this is, this is awesome. This, in my personal opinion, was the.

Jimmy Kimmel (28:55)

Most over the top Trump event that I've ever covered.

Erica Kirk (28:59)

This is the number one boots on the ground operation in the country. We're working directly in harmony with the Trump campaign. It's been vetted, it's been cleared, it's been blessed, as you can see there. And we're going to try to win this thing. No guarantees. It's what we do that matters. Mr. President, I can tell you this room is 100% with you and we have your back. God bless you.

Tyler (29:16)

Thank you.

Erica Kirk (29:28)

As you know, we are heading on campus here momentarily at the University of South Florida, throwing it down with the students. It's going to be a lot of fun. We are excited to continue this cultural movement that we have started at Turning Point usa. More high school chapters, more college chapters, and disagreement is not just welcome, it is invited. We want to have those tough conversations. That's what it's all about. Because you're not supposed to be involved in this. You're supposed to just kind of be on the vote for me every four years, give me more political power and stay out of my business. And what has happened is we are seeing an explosion in citizen participation.

Tyler (30:29)

There is nothing following me.

Graham Allen (30:38)

All of.

Tyler (30:39)

My days, your mercy follow me. Oh, there is nothing else I'll ever need.

Erica Kirk (30:55)

Knock on that extra door, go that extra mile, talk to that extra friend. Because throughout voting month and culminating on the 5th of November, I believe it will go down as a day that people remember, as a day that is written about in history books as the final battle. From the golden escalator on down, from defeating Hillary Clinton, from the nonsense of 2020, from Butler, Pennsylvania. November 5th. It all culminates where we restore the promise that the founders gave us. And they said, hey, if the people want it, the people get it. And we the people, take back America. God bless Arizona and thank you so much. Every day, the American people demand certain accomplishments and victories. Disagreement is what keeps a movement alive, keeps a movement fun. Here in this country. We are a country of flourishing. We're a country of risk taking. We're a country of building. We will achieve American greatness.

Graham Allen (32:03)

American.

Erica Kirk (32:04)

And we are just getting started.

Andrew (32:06)

All my days, your mercy follow me.

Tyler (32:19)

And we're remembering. Charlie Kirk, want to welcome now back onto thought crime. We don't usually have too many guests, but we actually have a second time guest here, longtime TPUSA contributor, the great Graham Allen. Graham, come on in, man.

Jack (32:38)

Welcome, Graham.

Tyler (32:39)

Graham. What's up?

Graham Allen (32:40)

Gentlemen? Gentlemen.

Tyler (32:42)

Lock in there, buddy. So, Graham, this. This is your first time back in the room, huh?

Graham Allen (32:50)

First time back in the room. It's. It's pretty, it's pretty surreal to, to see that seat be empty like that. So thank you guys for allowing me the honor of even sitting next to it. I appreciate it very much. So. Yeah, the last time I was here, that seat wasn't empty. So it's. It's pretty, uh, pretty, uh, surreal moment, actually.

Tyler (33:19)

So you know what mic that is there, right, by the way, right?

Graham Allen (33:22)

Yep. Yeah, I saw, I saw Glenn's beautiful tribute to Charlie by giving him rush his mic there. And I think that that's where that mic belongs. I think, I think it's. It's unquestionable. I really do. And so thank you guys for allowing me to be here. I appreciate it.

Tyler (33:41)

No, thank you for coming in and making the trip.

Jack (33:43)

And we're happy you're here. And wife Graham has been a long time, not just contributor, but huge supporter and a great friend to Charlie. We go back a long way, don't we?

Graham Allen (33:57)

Long, long, long way.

Jack (33:58)

To some of those OG like campus events. We throw Graham in There.

Graham Allen (34:03)

Yeah. My very first trip. My very first trip, as I try to connect this thing to the back of my chair. My very first trip out here to Arizona to really, really hang out with Tyler and Charlie and everything. We had this amazing meeting. They're like, hey, we're gonna go debate people who hate us at asu. Do you want to. Do you want to come along? And I was like, sure, let's do that. And then that was. That was legitimately my first ever time out here. And I just. I. I don't know if I'm allowed to tell this story or not.

Jack (34:36)

You could tell any story.

Tyler (34:37)

We're literally just.

Graham Allen (34:38)

I will never forget telling all the stories. And, Tyler, I. I don't know if you saw this, but I'll never forget it was me. Thank you so much for helping me out here. It was me, Charlie, and Brandon Tatum, and we were getting ready to do the ASU debate, and Charlie is like, we need some hype music. And next thing I know, Straight out of Compton starts playing, and we start walking to go get ready to do this debate. And the rest was kind of history, I guess you could say Straight Outta Compton. Really? Straight Outta Compton.

Tyler (35:13)

I don't know.

Graham Allen (35:13)

No, no, no. I don't know if Charlie was the one that played it. I think, Charl, we need some motivational music, and somebody played Straight out of Compton walking through there, and then, you know, the rest is history.

Jack (35:26)

The funny early days of this, it was just so funny. I used to. We used to just bring basically anybody that would be able to talk well, speak well, and fight well. Graham was one of the earliest guys that had one of the largest channels on Facebook. And I remember. I can remember, like, all these interactions with Charlie and how we, like, interacted with everybody that ended up being part of the larger Turning Point family, whether it's, you know, Anna Polina or, you know, anyone else but Graham. I remember, like, Charlie was just intrigued with how you were able to build your podcast and all of your. All your views. That was before we, like, really had started Charlie's podcast.

Graham Allen (36:17)

Yeah. Yeah, we. We met for dinner, right? It was. You know, I've told this story on. On Dear America several times. I. I'll never forget riding around in Turning Point's first, like, company vehicle. It was like this. I can't. Was it a Ford? Is that what it was?

Jack (36:34)

I think it was a Jeep. Okay, well, the first one that we had was a Jeep, either.

Graham Allen (36:37)

Well, maybe it was the second one then. But I remember me and Charlie. Charlie was driving yeah. Which was terrifying. And Charlie, me were driving the gray one. Yes, yes.

Tyler (36:47)

Okay.

Jack (36:48)

Charlie's car.

Graham Allen (36:48)

There we go.

Jack (36:49)

Yeah, that was Charlie's vehicle.

Graham Allen (36:51)

Okay, well, Charlie's vehicle then. And. And I was just thinking.

Jack (36:55)

It's funny you brought that up, because I was just thinking about that the other day because now, like, it changed so much over time. But anyway.

Graham Allen (37:01)

Yeah, well, anyway, I just remember driving down the road and me and Charlie talking about, you know, Turning Point USA and. And, you know, and Tyler, you don't get enough credit for this either. And I've told a lot of people this. Without. Without you and Charlie and Turning Point usa, there is no longevity to Graham Allen or Dear America or anything like that. And so, you know, I make this vow. I. I already made it to Charlie, but I make it to you and. And Turning Point here. I will spend the rest of my days to make sure that Turning Point usa, Turning Point, Action, Faith, and whatever else comes to help you guys take this as far as it's supposed to be. And, you know, I am forever a. A friend of Charlie, but a friend of Erica and Turning Point and you guys. And because I. I owe you guys so much. And there's so many stories of so many people like me that people don't even realize that Charlie and you and Turning Point helped us all out. And so I'm here for the long haul, man. 100%.

Jack (38:15)

I'll say this. Charlie was ecstatic when you joined us. Was thrilled. Over the moon. Because, again, I think we all learn from each other. We all grow. And he learned so much from those early things that you taught him through all the podcasts. I mean, that, like, lit a fire underneath him, because, again, I don't think you guys understand. I don't know if you remember, but Graham was, like, crushing Facebook. I remember before the shutdown, like, the.

Tyler (38:46)

Big evil Empire, baseball. He was like, the guy.

Jack (38:49)

He became, like, bigger than Fox in, like, so many different ways and was huge. And like, this go to and the following. And the love that people have for Graham Allen is, like, unlike anything that we had ever seen to that point. And so it's just. It's just like a multi. Road. Yeah. Multidirectional love fest that's been here this week. I learned, actually, because there's so many stories, including Graham's, that, like, help culminate into what we see today.

Tyler (39:19)

Part of. Part of the lore of Graham Allen. People don't realize this, but Blake actually learned how to drive from watching Graham Allen rant videos in his car. And that's why Blake only drives with one arm.

Graham Allen (39:32)

Yeah.

Tyler (39:32)

Because his other hand, he's holding. Camera ran.

Graham Allen (39:34)

All you have to do is rant, and they don't pull you over. It's the craziest thing that goes.

Jack (39:44)

So I want to hear. Tell us about some of your thoughts, Graham. What are some of your impressions that you've got since this tragic. The tragedy that happened to our friend last week? What have you seen from your corner of the world? Because you come from a totally different cultural place than I come from. I'm a southwestern Yankee, and that's my whole family. So tell us kind of what your thoughts are, what your impressions have been.

Graham Allen (40:12)

Well, forgive me. Like I said, I'm trying to, in real time, just adjust to the chair here. Anyway, on my side of the world, I'll tell you one. I just want to point out the fact of what you are seeing across the country is a move of God. I truly believe it, and I hope I word this the right way. I truly believe that if. If Charlie knew that this horrific tragedy would have kicked off what we're seeing the Lord doing right now. I think he would not change a thing. I really believe that. I really think that that's who Charlie was. And so this move of God is something only God could do. And that's amazing to see. I will say, and I'm sure that you guys have seen the same thing, that it also reveals that we still have a lot of work to do. You know, there's a lot of people that have had horrible reactions, and there's still a lot of work to be done in this country. I don't want to take away from the miracles that God is working. I mean, just coming in here, and I appreciate the security that you guys have around here. They stopped me and would not let me. Me anywhere anywhere near this place originally, which is great, and all this. But. But just seeing the memorials out there, by the way.

Tyler (41:56)

That's because they knew it was you, but probably. Don't worry.

Graham Allen (41:59)

Was it.

Tyler (41:59)

There was. There was a rail that.

Graham Allen (42:00)

We think he's gonna walk in here.

Tyler (42:03)

There was an incident. We're not gonna talk about that right.

Jack (42:05)

Now because it's all.

Tyler (42:06)

It's all resetting. We're resetting.

Graham Allen (42:08)

Yes, exactly. That was the NDA. No, I'm just kidding.

Tyler (42:11)

I'm kidding.

Graham Allen (42:12)

I'm kidding. But no. Seeing the memorials out there, and there's a guy holding a cross out there.

Tyler (42:18)

You know, he drove here.

Graham Allen (42:19)

Really? No, I didn't. Wow.

Tyler (42:22)

Because I asked him. I was like, how did you. I was like, did you get that on a plane? This, this. It's like the size of the true cross.

Graham Allen (42:28)

Yeah.

Tyler (42:29)

And he said, no. He said, no, I drove it here in my truck. I said, well, where'd you drive? I'm thinking like, he's, you know, in the area or something like the other end of the valley. He goes, no. He goes, oh, Detroit. I'm like, wait, so. And I'm doing the math, so you must have heard the news. He said, I heard the news.

Graham Allen (42:45)

Got in the car. Got in the car. Alyssa, my wife is here, and she was out praying with people that are just never met Charlie, but they're so distraught. And you know what I think it is? I think it's believers. We know that when we accept the Lord Jesus Christ in our heart, the Holy Spirit comes and dwells within us. And I think other believers feel so connected to Charlie because the same Holy Spirit that dwells within them dwelled within Charlie. And so my wife was out there praying with people and she literally told me that there's people that just drove here just to hand out water to the people that are just here to pay tribute to Charlie. I mean, it's, it can only be the Lord. And I just want to. Not to take away from Charlie in any way, but just, I mean, what we're seeing, it does make sense, but it doesn't make sense at the same time. But it only makes sense because that's how God just works sometimes. And so it's been a very emotional day. It's been a very emotional week. I can't imagine what it's been like for you guys. But again, I'm honored. I know you guys have been inundated and, and I'm just honored that you guys allowed me to even come in here and just, just to be able to be with you guys and to be in this room. Because I, I know that you guys have gotten. I can't even imagine how many people.

Tyler (44:21)

Want to show up more than welcome. But I did want to get in because we've, you know, we. We've been, we've been going at this for about 45 minutes now, and we haven't actually got to any thought crimes.

Blake (44:32)

The title is.

Tyler (44:34)

We have a mandate, we have a. We have a charge, we have a mission from God. And you mentioned some of the reactions.

Graham Allen (44:41)

Yes.

Tyler (44:41)

To Charlie's death. And as it turns out, a very well known individual made some reactions to Charlie's death that in fact reference this humble show. And I'd like, who could it be, Jack? Oh, you're about to find out.

Blake (45:01)

Someone incredibly famous. Like.

Tyler (45:02)

Yes.

Blake (45:03)

Like some. I don't know.

Tyler (45:04)

Oh, very. Oh, very famous.

Blake (45:07)

Could it be a member of Congress?

Tyler (45:09)

Famouser?

Blake (45:10)

He might be famouser than a member of Congress.

Jack (45:12)

He might be a foreign national.

Tyler (45:14)

Oh, oh, even foreigner, folks, let's play clip 124.

Barack Obama (45:23)

Obviously, I didn't know Charlie Kirk. I was generally aware of some of his ideas. I think those ideas were wrong. But that doesn't negate the fact that what happened was a tragedy and that I mourn for him and his family. He's a young man with two small children and a wife who obviously. And a huge number of friends and supporters who cared about him. So we have to extend grace to people during this period of mourning and shock. We can also, at the same time.

Tyler (46:09)

Say that.

Jack (46:13)

Oh, maybe it is us.

Barack Obama (46:15)

I disagree with the idea that the Civil Rights act of 1964 was a mistake.

Tyler (46:23)

That's not. Wait, did it cut off? Did it cut off? Because there's more. Because there's. There's more. I think there's more in the clip, right?

Blake (46:34)

Because. Yeah, he mentions the civil rights one. All right, they're getting more.

Jack (46:38)

They're gonna pull more. Is that. Is that pulled straight from the feed? Guys, did we get the answer?

Blake (46:42)

Yeah, I don't know.

Tyler (46:43)

I don't know. So hold on.

Jack (46:45)

So wait, I know there's.

Tyler (46:47)

I know there's more in the clip, and I think there's something. There's an issue with the clips. We're going to get it back up, but I'm sorry, Blake, did he just reference the Thought Crime podcast?

Blake (46:58)

I think he did. I think he did.

Tyler (47:00)

He specifically. Specifically referenced this very podcast, an episode that we had where we were discussing the. The Civil Rights Act. It's gone quite viral. And, you know, Charlie has been, you know, questioned about his comments on that, and now this podcast has gotten so big that, like, the most powerful member of the Democrat. If you had to pick a leader of the Democrat Party, you would have to say it's Barack Obama.

Graham Allen (47:33)

You would have to still say, I.

Tyler (47:34)

Mean, yes, you'd have to.

Blake (47:36)

Like, who else could it be?

Tyler (47:37)

There's. There's no other power behind the throne. And. Well, I mean, we can talk about that, but. But in terms of a specific individual, who's the leader? I mean, it's. It's unequivocally. It's Barack Obama. So you've got. Barack Obama wants to still be relevant, and the Democrats are now so bad so bad that in order to stay relevant, he's got to criticize Charlie Kirk and criticize thar crime.

Graham Allen (48:05)

Correct. Yeah.

Tyler (48:06)

So, Tyler, talk to me about going from the start of.

Blake (48:12)

We have the rest of it. If we want to watch.

Tyler (48:13)

Turning down.

Jack (48:14)

Wait, let's watch the rest of the clip. Oh, yeah, we have it. Yeah, let's throw it up.

Barack Obama (48:19)

I disagree with the idea that the Civil Rights act of 1964 was a mistake. That's not me politicizing the issue. It's making an observation about who are we as a country. I can say that I disagree with the suggestion that my wife.

Tyler (48:50)

Or.

Barack Obama (48:52)

Justice Jackson does not have adequate brain processing power. I can. I can say that I disagree that Martin Luther King was awful. I can disagree with some of the broader suggestions that liberals and Democrats are promoting a conspiracy to displace whites and replace them by ushering in illegal immigrants. Those are all topics that we have.

Tyler (49:44)

Yeah, the Democrats would never do that.

Graham Allen (49:46)

Did he just admit that they are.

Blake (49:48)

And then brag about.

Tyler (49:49)

Yeah, they would never, ever.

Graham Allen (49:51)

That was incriminating.

Jack (49:52)

That is the greatest clip ever. Charlie got Barack Obama. He's laughing so hard. He's getting nice long. Lmao. We had. Charlie used to always put the chat when he thought something was funny. Lmao. He is lmaoing right now so hard that he got.

Tyler (50:09)

Brought my ashtray off and. Oh, I might do that one a.

Blake (50:13)

Lot for really funny stuff.

Tyler (50:14)

Oh, my gosh.

Blake (50:16)

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

Jack (50:17)

To be clear, that. That he got Barack Obama to publicly say that he was bothered by the fact that Charlie said that he had limited brain power.

Tyler (50:29)

No, that. Michelle. Michelle.

Blake (50:36)

I remember this. I believe it was at. It was when we had the event in Palm Beach, I believe the one that was, you know, quite the ordeal overall.

Tyler (50:45)

The one where they only gave us like one secret. Yeah. Yeah.

Blake (50:47)

So we had a ton of trouble getting.

Tyler (50:49)

That wasn't a sash. That was something else.

Blake (50:50)

It wasn't. It wasn't called Sass Action Conference. It was actcon. It was. And I think it was a while we were at ACTCON and everything's a disaster. But we have in one normal show and we do a segment on Michelle Obama's thesis at Princeton and he took so much delight in reading that. And we were really. We were just reading a Christopher Hitchens article that was in Slate in 2003 or so and. Yeah, 2000. 2008. 2008. And, you know, it's so great because I just. Does Slate still exist? I actually have no Idea. Well, their website's still up.

Tyler (51:23)

No, they have been wiped from existence. Yeah.

Blake (51:26)

And they became this like big Lib outlet that would have probably trashed Charlie Kirk. But yeah, he just took so much joy from reading it. Hitchens was like, the thesis cannot, strictly speaking, be read in the strictest sense of the verb. That is because it was not written in any known language.

Jack (51:45)

That's funny. Good times. That's just Charlie bugging that. I mean, again, just Charlie bugging Obama. That we never knew this because Obama never commented on Charlie. Right. He never had a reason to. He would ignore all these things. But he's in such the news right now, obviously with everything going on that every living president has to comment on the death of our friend. And he. And. And Barack Obama can't get away from it. They're both from Chicago.

Tyler (52:17)

Yeah.

Jack (52:18)

So they're both. They're both having. There are all these people asking questions and he's so bothered that he gets in front of a crowd and he basically just unloads how bothered he is and how. Basically he's told the whole world for years how bothered he's been by Charlie Kirk.

Tyler (52:31)

Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on a second though. Hold on, hold on. All right, let's go. Real thought crime here. What if. What if he knew what he was saying about Michelle? Because there's all those rumors that there's like a split up going on between him and Michelle. So what if he couched it as. I'm really. I really don't agree with that Charlie Kirk when he says my wife is an idiot. I can't believe he would say that. That darn Charlie Kirk.

Graham Allen (53:03)

Gosh darn it.

Tyler (53:04)

I totally disagree because she's definitely not. Not an idiot.

Graham Allen (53:08)

Yeah, well, he started off by saying that he was vaguely. Only vaguely familiar. And yeah. Yeah, he lists 147 points.

Tyler (53:16)

Yeah, he's got like memorized. I've never heard anything about Charlie.

Graham Allen (53:21)

Yeah, he's memorized just like everybody else. Barack Obama and all the people that work with him have been watching Charlie Kirk for years. Just like every single person on the left because they hate him. Because he was effective and he was actually. He was destroying them. Charlie Kirk was almost single handedly destroying them, especially with the youth and yeah, forgive Charlie and us for questioning someone that can't even define what a woman is. You know? So, I mean, that's my thought.

Tyler (53:51)

That's wild. That's absolutely wild. All right, well, we have to get into, I think, our actual debate. We've got to go at it of the night.

Graham Allen (54:01)

All right, let's do it.

Tyler (54:02)

And of course, this all comes down to another Democrat official who made other comments about Charlie Kirk, comments that were completely wrong. Thought these were the misinformation, disinformation police. But. Oh, no, no, no. So I want to play. I want to play. Where is it, guys? We have the actual clip of him saying it, right? Not seeing the list. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Well, actually, let's Play. Let's play. Clip 115.

Jimmy Kimmel (54:49)

First, ABC decided to cancel their highest rated show, Roseanne, following following a tweet in which Roseanne compared an African American woman, a former advisor to President Obama, to an ape, which did not sit well with ABC management or anyone with a brain, really. So they announced that this first season of the show is also its last, which is a huge blow to business. I mean, we don't have much on this network. We're hoping the NBA Finals goes 11 games this year. We're still airing America's funniest home videos.

Tyler (55:21)

Okay.

Graham Allen (55:24)

I hate his voice.

Jack (55:26)

So that's. That's the start.

Tyler (55:27)

That's the start. And then we have, I think on my list, it says 127. Clip 127, Jimmy.

Jack (55:35)

Yeah, making fun of it.

Tyler (55:36)

Says. It says. It says Kimmel 1, 2, 7 on my list.

Jimmy Kimmel (55:43)

After much prayer and reflection, the president this morning decided to take the difficult step of condemning Nazis in the Klan, which was big for him because this is the sort of thing that could alienate his base. If you've ever wondered what is the polar opposite of MLK day, it is the Iowa Republican caucus. Cpac, if you don't know, is an annual event. It's like comic con for neocons and neo Nazis. Major League baseball decided not to have the all star game in Atlanta this summer in response to the new law they passed in Georgia that tries to discourage people of color from voting. So baseball did the right thing and pulled the game. And now the red hatters are mad at them. We had the choice between a prosecutor and a criminal, and we chose the.

Jack (56:24)

Criminal to be president of the United States.

Jimmy Kimmel (56:26)

More than half of this country voted for the criminal. People who have lived here their whole lives, people who've been in this city longer than I have, the vast majority of whom have never done anything wrong or being abducted, which is the correct word to use by agents in masks hiding their identities, grabbing people off the street. We had some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.

Tyler (56:58)

Oh, no, that's misinformation and disinformation. So, Blake, what has happened since Jimmy Kimmel made those false comments?

Blake (57:09)

Yeah, that was Monday night on his show. So let's be clear. If he was going to suggest that like some groiper or whatever killed Charlie, if he did it the night of, it would be gross, it'd be disgusting. But he would at least have the defense that like, we didn't really know anything yet. We hadn't caught the shooter. But like Monday night we kind of already had all these reports on him. We kind of knew what we were working with here. And he still just runs with, oh, like it was obviously some guy on the right who killed. Who killed Charlie. And then, you know, all of us celebrated it on the left.

Jack (57:44)

He's clearly telling his audience that this kid was mad.

Blake (57:47)

Yeah, yeah, he is. Furthering what really was. This is what I think really enraged people is we basically had a disinformation up. We had a poll by either Friday or Monday morning where more people told YouGov that the shooter was a Republican than a Democrat. And it's not the parties that matter. It's clearly. That's the abstract there is. For what was the ideology we had. Heather Cox Richardson, the number one most subscribed person on Substack, I believe was just going around, oh, it's a right wing guy who did this. I saw all these people on Blue sky were pushing this interview where they just asked a family member and was.

Andrew (58:20)

Like, oh yeah, the family's full of Republicans.

Blake (58:23)

And they just took that as proof. Oh, oh, it was a, it was a right winger who did it. Case closed. And I think that's really what set people off. It fit into this like absolutely obnoxious frame of. First they celebrate what happened. They celebrate a political assassination of somebody of a good man, of a good man who was out there doing free speech on campus. They celebrate that murder, lie about that, and then they lie about who did it and then subsequently lie that they did that. Either they're still lying about it. And so what happened since then? That was Monday night. He had Tuesday. He had Tuesday. He could have apologize that Tuesday night. We had the charging documents from the state of Utah made it clear what happened. Well, he didn't. And so on Wednesday they took him off the air.

Tyler (59:09)

Well, so. So there's a couple angles on this. The Wall Street Journal has come out and has a series of articles now saying that this was a bottom up rebellion that the local affiliates, those, those groups that get. So the way these networks work, the broadcast networks, that they have local affiliates that are independently owned or in many conglomerates but are different companies than abc independently from ABC is what I'm saying. And then they are, they are typically get their revenue from local businesses and occasionally national businesses as well. And so it's, it's complicated. But the idea being then that they were getting calls from advertisers, they were getting calls from locals, complaints all over saying hey this guy basically just blamed half of the country for Charlie's murder and is sort of, of saying that he deserved it. Like obviously with this mocking tone. And yeah, we, we don't want to support that anymore. And plus everybody knows the cost over. It's the same issue with Colbert. The cost overruns were there, the ratings were not. I think Blake, didn't we pull up the actual ratings in the demo?

Blake (60:18)

Yeah, we did and they were behind Colbert and Colbert show is not lower ratings than Colbert. Yeah.

Tyler (60:25)

And so, and so people saying like, you know, it just made sense. You know, complaints, no money losing money. Do it. But here's the other side of it is that the FCC chairman also commented on this and made comments that are being construed by the entire left as essentially threatening abc. That's, that's what they're saying. And I think we've seen that all the, you know, here's, here's what he's talking about the broadcast TV light. He said if you have a, let's just play it, it's Only a minute.

FCC Chairman (61:04)

Clip 93 Broadcast TV is different. We're on a cable show right now. You don't have an FCC license, you don't have an obligation to serve the public interest. Podcasts don't either. Stand up comedians, whether they're on lots of forms of communications don't and Kimball esprit to do that. But if you have a broadcast TV license, that means that you have something that very few people have and you're excluding other people from having access to that valuable public resource. And it comes with an obligation to serve the public interest. And again, over the years there's been a rule in place of the FCC that local TV stations get to preempt programming that they don't think meets the needs of their communities. But recently these national programmers, abc, Disney, Comcast, NBC, they've been exercising outsized control and power over those local TV stations. And there's Been no pushback. And this is a very significant moment because local broadcasters now pushing back on national programmers for the first time that I can think of in modern history. That's one of the things we want at the fcc. We want to empower local broadcasters that have the public interest obligation to push back on national programmers so that people have more choice.

Blake (62:16)

So I want to read that was after he got suspended. But what people are really reacting to from Carr is he made some statements before the suspension was announced. And I think that was actually on Benny Johnson.

Tyler (62:26)

Johnson, yeah.

Blake (62:27)

And what he said, do actually, do we have that clip with Johnson?

Tyler (62:33)

I didn't see it on the. I didn't see it.

Blake (62:34)

No worries, no worries. I can just read the quote here. So he was saying, paraphrasing what he said on Johnson's show. He, he was kind of making a similar thing. He said it was truly sick. And he said there was a, quote, strong case for some sort of FCC action against ABC and Disney, its parent company. He said, quote, this is a very, very serious issue right now for Disney. This is the quote people are really fixing on. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to take action on Kimmel, or there is going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. They have a license granted by us at the fcc and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest.

Tyler (63:16)

So here's the, here's the twist is, does this constitute. And what they're saying is, does. And I want to debate this a little bit, does this constitute a violation of the First Amendment? Did the federal government coerce ABC into the firing of Jimmy Kimmel?

Graham Allen (63:40)

I. No. No, I don't. Anyone that's trying to make it as if it's only because of Jimmy Kimmel's remarks and then the FCC came in and said we could do this the easy way or the hard way. Also, I don't think that's influencing something. If Jimmy Kimmel came out and apologized the very next day, he would probably still be on the air. And here's another thing. I would also venture to say that if, if every single conservative, including Benny Johnson and us and everybody said, we demand you put Jimmy Kimmel back on because we believe in free speech, they wouldn't do it because they were bleeding money on this guy. This was just the thing that was the final straw that broke the camel's back. Here's the deal about free speech. Free speech, technically under the Constitution, protects the federal government from coming in and firing you or putting you in prison or murdering you. You know, those type of things. Right. Freedom of speech does not guaranteed your continued employment when your private employer may or may not have a problem with things that you do whilst in the office or even off sight or off air in the office or outside of the office. So I don't see how this infringes upon Jimmy Kimmel's First Amendment rights in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Same thing with Colin Kaepernick. Back in the day, none of us conservatives argued the fact of. Of course Colin Kaepernick has the right to protest and kneel for the national anthem. However, the 49ers who sign his checks and the NFL and all of this, the fan base has a problem with it. The NFL starts losing money. So guess what happens? I mean, that's. That's just how these things work. And I actually really love the fact that he went into further detail and actually said, to quote one of Tyler's favorite words, the grassroots actually were the ones that led this pushback. And it's the first time they've seen it in a long time, because we've had these. These huge, huge, huge national broadcasting networks imposing their will of what they want to jam down our throats. And then now you had the little guys pushing back and say, no, we don't want this. Get this dude out of here.

Jack (66:00)

Yeah. And look, he has the free. He has the freedom to go start his own network. Right. Like, that's. You know, Jimmy should go do what Jimmy did to his friend Adam, which was, you know, box him into a corner where he was boxed out of, you know, the national spotlight, and he didn't bring him along for. To make sure that he was taken care of. He didn't.

Tyler (66:23)

Yeah. So they. They. For people who don't know just what Tyler's referring to is, is that they were co hosts of the Mansion.

Graham Allen (66:31)

Yeah.

Tyler (66:32)

Years ago. And if you're. If you're a certain age, I mean, that was just like the hit show. I think it came on. Right. For South Park.

Graham Allen (66:39)

Yeah.

Tyler (66:40)

And on Comedy Central. And it was just this great, hilarious, extremely politically incorrect show.

Graham Allen (66:47)

Oh, absol.

Tyler (66:49)

And amazing. Like, just an amazing show. And he hosted it with Adam Carolla, who did not apologize and sell out his values. And that's why, as Tyler says, he was put in this.

Jack (66:59)

He was blacklisted. He was blacklisted. And Jimmy Kimmel, as a friend, shunned his friend. And again, this is just. I don't know, their personal relationship. I don't know Adam Carolla, in a personal way, I'm just taking this from everything I've read publicly and the comments and everything else, but Adam Carolla had to go out after that and basically build his own empire. And then on top of that, when all conservatives got canceled, Adam Corolla was one of the only people who spoke up on behalf of conservatives who did nothing except talk about the truth in places that were private, that were. They weren't on national tv again with these, these licenses that are being talked about by the FCC commissioner. So you have a person who is really a hypocrite in Jimmy Kimmel, who didn't stand up even for his closest friends, in my opinion, and now is now under the heat seeking missile of the current Trump administration. And no one feels bad for him, and you can understand why.

Blake (68:09)

So, first of all, I want to thank l Love 78 donated $50. God bless you all. God bless you. L Love 78. And we'll see if you regret that, because I'm going to wade into this one. I'm gonna say it. I wish Brendan Carr hadn't said anything about this because first of all, I agree. I think what Kimmel said was extremely disgusting. I think it was gross for like a late night comedy host, which generally, I think late night comedy should be kind of a big tent thing. It should be a thing most people can watch. And it hasn't been that for a while after 2016. It really did.

Jack (68:48)

It should be like, Johnny, you're a believer. Should be like Johnny Carson.

Blake (68:51)

Yeah, that's what most of us want. But it kind of became this like, Seal clapping, you know, fake politics comedy where you say a political thing, it's allegedly comedic. But you, you really laugh because you're on the same team and it's like fake.

Jack (69:04)

And they went, they went like so far left of Bill Maher. And yeah, I think what's crazy about late night on the big channels is like they, they hop, skipped and jumped over Bill Maher and the Daily show with Jon Stewart because they saw that, that worked, you know, on the cable channels. And, and then they went like way so far to the left. They like. It's such a departure from the Johnny Carson, even Jay Leno era.

Blake (69:29)

It just became painful. It became painful. Even David Letter, like, I wish he hadn't said anything. You know, we can say there is a difference between, you know, yeah, freedom of speech, the First Amendment, it protects you from the government silencing your speech. But I think that does meaningfully include the government can't like, come in and, like, glare at you really hard and, like, flex its muscles and, like, do this Mafia, like, would be a shame if something happened to your nice little business and then be like, we didn't do anything because we didn't literally sue them or regulate them. And I recognize it should be said the Biden administration did very similar things to this, and it is bad.

Tyler (70:09)

And we were against it.

Blake (70:10)

And we were against it. We were against it. We've had, for example, there was a Supreme Court case a year or two ago, Twitter that one. But I was also thinking of Volo versus the nra, I believe is what it was. It was a New York State case. And what New York State did is they had their banking regulator send a letter to, like, every bank and insurance company. That's just like, you know, a lot of people might be concerned that you do business with the nra because, like, the nra, it's a very radical group, and, like, it could hurt your reputation. And, you know, reputation is a part of what makes you a reputable financial institution that you're not. You don't have bad clients, and you should take that under advisement because, you know, we're New York. We regulate a lot of financial institutions. We're looking out for your best interests. And they sued successfully, pointing out. And I think they got it. 9, 0 Supreme Court decision on this, if I remember right, where they just pointed out, okay, the government can't, like, the government can make an opinion. The government is allowed to argue something that has been ruled, but the government can't sort of vaguely threaten action because everyone knows the government can do a lot of powerful things. And you can't limit a government attack on speech to literal direct action. Well, that should also include threats, even if they don't.

Tyler (71:26)

But that was. That was the government's whole argument, the case. Right. If I remember correctly, Solicitor General was saying, well, there's no specific threat that was made. There's no specific. It was the perception of the threats.

Blake (71:36)

Yeah.

Tyler (71:36)

And I got it. And that was. I want to say that was nine.

Blake (71:39)

Oh, yes, I believe so.

Tyler (71:41)

Yeah. And I got. I got to say, I. I'm torn on this one because as. As much as, like, I support the right finally using power and finally using institutions of power, it. It is one of those things where it's like, I wish we had just let it be the grassroots.

Blake (72:01)

That's the other thing.

Tyler (72:02)

You know, bottom up rebellion. And now they have this perception and narrative that they can talk about. And I'm just saying Like, I know we're on thought crime, right? So we're committing thought crimes is I wish it were cleaner. I wish it were cleaner.

Blake (72:16)

Cleaner. I wish it were cleaner. And we actually had this great organic burst of when there were those people celebrating it in the days after. And people were, you know, they were creating websites and spreadsheets to log everyone. Not, not because it was some government thing, not because it was a political op. Because people were genuinely, hugely upset at the disgusting behavior people were engaging in. And they wanted to make sure other people knew about this disgusting behavior. And a lot of people got in trouble, they got suspended, they lost their jobs. And now this is going to be used to retroactively change that to, you know, the f. The Trump FCC went and used the martyrdom of a free speech advocate to attack freedom of speech. And I'm going to be sad if they're able to run that propaganda op when they didn't have to be able to.

Tyler (73:03)

Well, and, and it comes, what, just a couple of days after this whole, like, the hate speech thing with the attorney general. And I get that she's kind of walked it back now. I think that's smart. I'm glad that she clarified what she meant when she was talking about the difference hate speech and free speech. And yet again, these are the left's rhetoric. This is the left's frame that the government should control speech and the government should be able to determine who is loud and who isn't allowed to speak. And now, obviously, fcc, we all know that FCC licenses are a serious thing, but if you're going to make that case, then, like, do it the right way, right? Actually find the violation and file the case and, and bring it up and make that, make that argument. Because if we've got government officials running around acting like we're going to police speech, and I'm not looking at the chat right now, so I don't know if I'm getting flamed or not that it's. I'm just saying, guys, I'm just saying.

Graham Allen (74:03)

Like, is Kimmel still getting paid?

Tyler (74:05)

Smart.

Blake (74:05)

He's only suspended.

Graham Allen (74:06)

He's suspended, right?

Tyler (74:08)

The show is still getting.

Graham Allen (74:09)

So he's getting paid back next week. He's getting paid to be on vacation.

Jack (74:13)

Well, here's the deal. Yeah, they're hoping that this will. They'll blow over. But here's the reality. We know that other shows have been canceled because late night's not doing so hot. Right? There's no way that this show is doing well. And, you know, with the Others going on. It's. This has always been one of the lowest rated shows out of I think all the late night shows. I don't have it in front of me right now, but I think Tim.

Tyler (74:34)

Pool shared it because he's like the most famous of the late night hosts and he's also the lowest rated rated. And yet, and yet every day or like every Monday or something, the media will have this. This. Here's what you missed on late night. Here's what happened on late night and they just act to their, their view. And a lot of this I think too is generational.

Jack (74:55)

So 2025. So I'll cut it.

Tyler (74:58)

Yeah, no, that's, that's a whole separate thing. But yeah, give us the.

Jack (75:01)

His current viewership is down to 1.6 million on average in 2025 with, with.

Graham Allen (75:07)

Tim Pool shared data just literally two hours ago that the 18 to traffic was like 129,000. Yeah, like, like, like. And so, and so again, again all of this, this is not just, I.

Jack (75:23)

Mean guys, because this is how we're winning the youth right now. They've lost the young people.

Graham Allen (75:28)

But it's not just because of what he said. Don't, don't think that all of a sudden ABC or Disney or whatever have had all these moments of clarity and no, this is a numbers, this is a money. And Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel finally stepped in it enough to where the little guys pushed back on the affiliate networks. And yes, would I have liked some people just to kept their mouth shut for a long time. Wait, you know, honestly, and that honestly, we don't always have to interview everyone all the time about everything. Maybe for purposes like this, hey, Jimmy Kimmel's been suspended. Just let it be. However, I still meant freedom of speech to Tyler's point means Jimmy Kimmel is suspended. I hope he does get fired because he sucks. His show is terrible. It's a money waster. From a business standpoint, it makes no sense. But Jimmy Kimmel has the freedom to then go start the Jimmy Kimmel show podcast and all 12 people can show up and listen to him say whatever.

Jack (76:31)

He wants and, and no one will listen to him or he'll. He'll end up up like what's his face that was commenting today? What's his name that used to be on espn. That's always.

Tyler (76:46)

Oh, that was just. I mean Jimmy Kimmel's the next Keith Olverman. That's great. I mean he's going to be completely irrelevant.

Jack (76:52)

That's who he is.

Graham Allen (76:53)

I Thought you said that's Graham. For a minute I was like, what.

Tyler (76:57)

Say you saw comments, right? I'll say one thing that, that I know someone who has gone on Jimmy Kimmel show a number of times and take it or leave it. But I had someone that, who said that Jimmy was actually really nice off camera.

Jack (77:16)

Interesting.

Tyler (77:16)

And, and like actually very like, like.

Jack (77:19)

A very not Alberman, like a very.

Tyler (77:21)

Generally genuinely sweet guy.

Jack (77:23)

Do you think this will make him angry though? Do you think they'll change who he is? But Keith Olberman. I think part of the reason why. So Keith Olbermann is who he is is because he got fired.

Tyler (77:32)

And yeah, so Keith Olberman. Right. At least he, you know, he's like, he's like just insane. He's just insane. Completely crazy. Like Jimmy Kimmel, I think basically got spiritually broken in half a long time ago. And I just don't even think you're going to like, he doesn't have any toughness in him at all. Like the guy literally was the host of the man show and he got spiritually buck broken at some point and he just, he's just like, he's just there too maybe, maybe too many, too many over. Over boosted maybe. I don't know. I just don't think he's gonna, that's what I just don't think he's gonna respond. Like he's not gonna go out with a, he's not gonna go out with a bang. He's gonna go out with a whimper. It is gonna be like just the, a balloon that, where the air is not, it's not popping, but the air is just being slowly let out and everybody's gonna forget.

Graham Allen (78:27)

Well, hold on now.

Tyler (78:28)

He might, he have no idea who he is.

Graham Allen (78:30)

He might have a legitimate mom is wearing his hat in the halls of Congress. All right, Stephen Colbert is now taking Charlie's slogan that we're all using, saying we're all Charlie now. Now Stephen Colbert is saying tonight we are all Jimmy Kimmel. And all of it's that look. And this will be the most watched show Stephen Colbert's had in three years with him using this.

Tyler (78:58)

So here's what's funny is I had a. So I have this, I have this contact who, you know, works at Disney and it's, you know, not, not any like high level position, but you know, someone who's just kind of like in the, in the machine, in the beast there who, you know, someone who leaked to me like DEI stuff and, and when that was all going on, just.

Jack (79:20)

Kind of seeing what's going on around there.

Tyler (79:21)

Yeah, yeah. Like, just gets the emails. Like just employee. Like just employee. Just regular employee, you know, who watches the. But, you know, watches our stuff and knows who I am and like, reached out at one point. And so the, the left, there's been this online like, oh, we're going to boycott Disney plus and boycott Hulu, which I know Blake is like, has some theories, feelings about. Right.

Blake (79:43)

Boycott Hulu. That Hulu still exists.

Tyler (79:47)

No, but wouldn't you be so upset if. If the left boycotted. Oh, yeah.

Jack (79:51)

Oh, yeah.

Tyler (79:51)

Don't do that. No, no, no.

Blake (79:54)

Don't throw me into that brier patch with no Marvel movies.

Tyler (79:57)

Oh, my gosh, it's Brier rabbit now. But. But he. He actually was just like. Yeah, we. We haven't really gotten that many boycotts. Like, it's just not.

Graham Allen (80:09)

No one cares about Jimmy Kimmel. No one. No one. No one. No one.

Jack (80:13)

You can't boycott what people already don't watch again.

Graham Allen (80:16)

Yes, correct.

Jack (80:17)

That's the. That's the problem that they have. They're going to.

Tyler (80:19)

No, no, no, no. I'm saying thing. So people who are subscribers, like paying subscribers of Disney plus are not boycotting over Jimmy Kimmel because, like, that's not what they subscribe to. Totally separate.

Jack (80:31)

Boycott what you don't watch.

Tyler (80:33)

Right, right.

Jack (80:34)

That's not what says. There are. No. And this is the problem for, I think for Jimmy Kimmel is that they're gonna realize, oh, hey, we can kind of quietly make him go away now. And I think this is part of the reactions. They're probably looking for a reason to end his show. To be honest. I'm going to be really upset if they let him back on the air for the only reason, not because the free speech reason, but for the only reason that that means that there's some kind of value he's producing and, and that I don't like as a free marketeer. Okay. Charlie would agree.

Blake (81:03)

We don't like the thought that his work has value.

Jack (81:05)

Has value. Like, that's. That's what's going to bother me the most is if they let it back on, that means that there's probably likely some kind of value he's producing in some way, shape or form, maybe some hidden way that we can't see. But, you know, I don't think. Did we talk about Dave Portnoy's comments?

Tyler (81:23)

No, but I do actually think that we have them. And I'm gonna try to follow the. Well, no, no, we've got the We've got it. It's a clip 94. I don't think it's a. I think it's a tweet, not a. Not a video, but let's throw it up. And Blake. Yeah.

Blake (81:39)

Yeah. So he. This Dave Portnoy said this last night, night with Kimmel getting canned, I'm seeing lots of people talking about the hypocrisy of cancel culture. To me, cancel culture is when people go out of their way to dig up old tweets, videos, etc. Looking for dirt on somebody they don't like in an effort to get them fired. Like, if Kimmel got canceled for stuff he did on the man show, that would be cancel culture. But when a person says something that a ton of people find offensive, rude, dumb, in real time, and then that person is punished for it, it is not cancel culture. That is consequences for your actions. And that got 27 million views so far.

Tyler (82:20)

Which, by the way, of course, people have tried to do to Dave Portnoy again and again by pulling up. It was like he had, like, a newsletter out of Boston or something where he used to make jokes and, you know, early. Early barstool articles, and people were trying to pull up stuff. They tried to do this Tucker Carlson, by the way, for, like, old, you know, Bubba the Love Sponge episodes and Media Matters. Like, we listened to every single Bubba the Love Sponge episode, and we found several kinds where Tucker Carlson made inappropriate commentinos. And it's. And everyone's just like, it's a comedy show. Like, he was, like, doing comedy. That's the Trump line. I was a businessman. I was doing business. And it's. I think he's right, though. I think there's. There's. I think there's some truth to that is, is that this was just objectively horrible what he said. And it wasn't like they were creating a wave of anger at Jimmy Kimmel. There already was one.

Jack (83:18)

It's gotcha culture versus trip over your own self culture. Right.

Tyler (83:23)

Get. Get God culture.

Graham Allen (83:24)

Do we really.

Jack (83:25)

And that's the thing is, like, this wasn't gotcha Jimmy Kimmel. Nobody watches him. Like, we've already talked about. Nobody really cares what Jimmy Kimmel has to say. But it was so strikingly disgusting for a. For a person that's on, you know, you know, Antenna tv, as they used to call it.

Tyler (83:44)

Yeah, rabbit ears.

Jack (83:45)

Now it's not rabbit ears. That's digital rabbit ears, but antenna tv. He's so bad that even people on his side were like, I don't Know I gotta shut this off. Right. And he's not getting laughs. I love the clips that were coming out that they, they sent out because it was without the filtered laughs. Did you see that now?

Graham Allen (84:03)

The laugh tracks.

Jack (84:04)

The laugh tracks. Did you see that?

Tyler (84:05)

No, I haven't seen that.

Jack (84:06)

The, the clip I saw there was basically no laughter.

Graham Allen (84:09)

Yeah.

Jack (84:09)

So that tells me one of two things. One is he has no audience actually watching his show.

Tyler (84:14)

The audience. Do they?

Graham Allen (84:16)

No.

Jack (84:16)

So I, I couldn't hear it. And again, you on a studio, on a sound set, you can't really hear unless it's miked. But usually this has this mic'd and it's brought in and it's supplemented by the laugh track.

Tyler (84:29)

Right.

Jack (84:29)

The version I heard and I could be totally right. Maybe this is my concern.

Tyler (84:33)

It.

Jack (84:34)

There was no laughter. So that either means he has no audience. That's live audience that's in there. And they're really struggling, getting even live people to show up to watch the show, which is what I really hope and I can understand. Or the second is that, that nobody in that room laughed.

Graham Allen (84:50)

Yeah. I think we also just have to ask like the, the sane question. When the founding fathers wrote the Constitution, our Bill of Rights and things like that, do we really believe that the founding fathers did not believe in consequences of actions even though they believed in free speech as well? I think the answer is absolutely, of course they believed in consequences of your actions. And again, I just, I'm on the side of this debate of free speech 1 million percent. Look at us, okay? Look at us and what we do. And, you know, I talk for a living on my side of things. And what I think, if people were to stop watching me tomorrow and I had to go try to get a normal job, how many people wouldn't employ me because of things that I have said that will live forever on the Internet? I choose to speak using my freedom of speech, but I am not immune to repercussions or consequences, ergo, of those words that I have said for the past decade.

Jack (85:54)

You mean you're not demanding a show on abc?

Graham Allen (85:57)

Correct. And I'm not demanding millions of dollars be paid to me so I can say whatever I want, even if I'm losing the company money. They're hemorrhaging money. And now I have said something that is making them hemorrhage even more money because the lower level affiliates are losing money because the grassroots doesn't want to watch. Watch it.

Tyler (86:16)

There's, there's, I think there's another angle to this too. And Tyler, so I was kind of getting at earlier was that, I mean, there's a generational thing going on here. Like, I've been talking to, you know, some zoomers, Gen Z, and they're like, who's Jimmy Kimmel?

Graham Allen (86:29)

Yeah.

Jack (86:30)

They just.

Tyler (86:31)

Is just someone who's not on their radar at all. And when I was talking about the New York Times, I mean, nobody thinks that the New York Times readership is young. Like, you don't picture, you know, some zoomer sitting over, you know, you know, some Starbucks and where they are required to write Charlie Kirk's name, by the way, right now, thanks to the efforts of America's greatest marriage, Rudy Giuliani, and, And like perusing the times, it's just not something that's done. And so, you know, it's like, it's like Jimmy Kimmel getting gone and Colbert getting on these massively expensive shows, which, with, you know, huge salaries, that it's. It's kind of like, it's, you know, it's like the last vinyl records factory closing or like a typewriter salesman got laid off because.

Jack (87:20)

Can I. Do I say this, Can I say this too real quick? No, no, no, Tyler, I. I am saddened about it. I'm really saddened that late night sucks so bad in America.

Tyler (87:30)

Dude, that's so true.

Jack (87:31)

Because it was.

Andrew (87:32)

I was gonna.

Tyler (87:32)

I was prepared to yell at you and then. And then you changed my heart.

Jack (87:35)

No, no. Late night TV was a hallmark of American Jay Leno.

Tyler (87:41)

And the headlines.

Jack (87:43)

On Monday nights, you have family dinner, you kind of hang out, mom does the dishes, you're hanging out, everyone gets ready for bed, and mom and dad have on late night TV in their. In their bedroom after the news. Right. Or whatever it was.

Blake (87:58)

I feel like this is. This is probably like a. You grew up on like mountain time thing, because I think on the, the. In like Eastern time.

Tyler (88:04)

Yeah. So on east coast, too late.

Jack (88:07)

That would have been like, I'm on the West Coast.

Tyler (88:08)

Yes. But on the east coast, that would be like going back with Charlie.

Jack (88:12)

That's why Permanent Pacific. The reason why we should be Permanent Pacific.

Blake (88:16)

The Tonight show out east is. Is a show for insomniacs. And I think they were pretty aware of that.

Tyler (88:22)

But so like, so like, for me.

Jack (88:23)

That, like, even like Jay Leno.

Tyler (88:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like wouldn't start until 11 11.

Graham Allen (88:28)

At least 10.

Tyler (88:29)

1110 or 11. Yeah.

Graham Allen (88:30)

East coast.

Tyler (88:30)

Yeah, yeah. And so, so for us, it used to be like, okay, I finished my homework. And then on the Fox 29. Philadelphia. They used to show not one, but two Simpsons episodes. Back to back was amazing. And then I would watch the Late show and I, I'd usually turn it off by like the guests. I love the monologue. I would watch and then like whatever the bit was. My favorite was headlines because you just had these really stupid headlines that people had done around the country. And then, and then when the guest came in, I'd be like, I don't know who any of those people are. So I'm, I'm out of here.

Blake (89:08)

Yeah, I think my parents would sometimes let me go through the top 10 list and then I either wanted to go to sleep then or they'd make me. But that's really why late night kind of went into decline. Like you think about what it served. Like you don't need to get on a late night show to become a famous band anymore. It used be to, to be away that you get famous. You don't.

Jack (89:27)

That was a big.

Blake (89:27)

You're not marketing movies by putting the movie star on a late night show. That's a totally vestigial thing. And that's two of the important things they did. And also. Yeah, you know, now they're a pre taped show offering comedy on current events. Now if you want comedy about current events, go on X, go on Tick tock.

Jack (89:42)

Well, and by the way, the Charlie Kirk show. And by the way, Johnny Carson was likable and so people just like wanted to invite him into their home.

Graham Allen (89:49)

Yeah, not sucking is a major, is a major player.

Jack (89:53)

No, I mean everyone would tell you this probably from the, you know, 80s in particular 70s and 80s is like people just love Johnny Carson and they wanted him in their home. They wanted the sound and the laughter and the jokes of Johnny Carson in their home.

Tyler (90:08)

But, but hold on, because I do want to.

Jack (90:10)

Nobody wants Jimmy Kimmel in their home.

Tyler (90:11)

No, but I, I am gonna, I'm not gonna push back, but. No, I am going to push back because this isn't the first comedy show that Jimmy Kimmel hosted. He hosted, he did the man show. And before that he was the host of Win Ben Stein's Money.

Graham Allen (90:24)

Yeah, anyone remembers that one?

Tyler (90:26)

Yeah, and they were. I watched that like crazy hilarious.

Jack (90:29)

He was good.

Tyler (90:29)

They were so good. He was so funny. Yeah, but Jack, he was likable and he. Right, so what I'm saying is he lost when he went to ABC when he grew the beard. Whatever. Something changed. And it's like they walk right up to you and say, okay, Jimmy, you're gonna have to read From a different script now, Jimmy. And it's like you're gonna push the vax, Jimmy. You know, it's the liberal paycheck. Like the liberal paycheck. This is what you're gonna get, Jimmy. You're gonna get all the money. Oh, you know, or it's like where the pictures come out, Jimmy. No, not saying that, not saying that. Comedy series show. But you know, it's, it's like something happens and he's just not likable anymore. And it comes across, it comes across because it's not funny. It's, it's, it's mean. It's like mean spirited. Like you can tell a mean joke and be funny if it's not mean spirited. But a me, like that's offensive or politically incorrect or whatever. Like, like his, his old, you know, like when he did the, the blackface on, on the man show, like everybody knew that he was just doing a bit like it was not like an actual attack on black people. It just wasn't.

Graham Allen (91:45)

If he would have made a joke, laughed, if he would have made a joke less than a week after George Floyd, he would have been fired immediately.

Tyler (91:54)

Oh yeah.

Graham Allen (91:55)

This is not a free speech thing at all. This is a. Finally he is getting removed for sucking at his job. Finally. Finally. That's what this is about. They have been hemorrhaging money for a long time that he's probably got them. He's probably meeting with the lawyers right now to get paid out of his contract. He's not meeting. I. Jimmy Kimmel is not meeting with lawyers to figure out how to get back onto his show. He's meeting with his lawyers to make sure that he gets his payout in his contract from being removed from him his show. I don't think this is a free speech issue. I personally do not believe it's infringing upon Jimmy Kimmel's first amendment rights in any way, shape, form or fashion. I agree with Date Portnoy. This is not cancel culture. This is, you know, to be cliche consequence culture and nobody cared.

Jack (92:48)

I mean, I'm telling you, like there's no conservative that was like actually watching him.

Tyler (92:53)

It was just, it just wasn't Bill Maher. Bill. Mark.

Jack (92:55)

It was libs that got upset.

Graham Allen (92:57)

Bill Mars upset.

Tyler (92:58)

Bill Maher got. No, he got fired.

Graham Allen (93:00)

Okay.

Tyler (93:02)

What was the show called? Politically.

Blake (93:05)

Politically Incorrect.

Tyler (93:06)

Politically Incorrect, yeah, politically. For some reason I was thinking that was. That wasn't it. But yeah, that's it. And he was fired after 9, 11 for making comments where he said, you Know, basically he said, I thought the hijackers were brave. You know, he said they weren't cowards. Everyone's calling them cowards. And he said, I, I think they weren't cowards. And people got just extremely mad. And you know, you could, in, in a free society, like, yeah, you could have a debate about that. And like, you know, on a show like this, I'm sure we could have a debate about that. But in the wake of 9 11, like, no, people just weren't having it. And at some point if, if you're like, the customers are the bosses, right? If they decide they're opting out, then, you know, a business has got to.

Graham Allen (93:47)

Make a decision and you're paid a salary. Look, look, look, everyone from, from if it's your very first job ever, all the way up to you're talking multimillion dollar deals. Somewhere in the paperwork that you fill out, especially if you're signing actual contractual type things, somewhere in there there is language that says if you do anything that the organization feels that your actions or your words or whatever can bring harm or loss of revenue to the business of which you're representing, they can fire you. It's as simple as that. This isn't Jimmy Kimmel on the side of the road screaming, I hate Charlie Kirk. That he has the absolute right to be able to do that. He did it on a platform that is not his own. It's not his, that is not his platform. He doesn't own it. He doesn't pay his own salaries. Somebody else does. This came back to bite him. Bye. Bye.

Tyler (94:44)

We've been on for 90 minutes right now and there's so much more we could say about Jimmy Kimmel. I think, I think we've kind of spoken at the length and breadth. We've got 30 minutes. I, I, what do you guys say? 30 more.

Blake (94:58)

I'm here.

Jack (95:01)

Let's do it. Let's do another topic in honor as the, as the, you know, distraction point this week here with.

Tyler (95:08)

Well, no, absolutely. And look, you know, one of the other pieces of big news which I, I would say dovetails nicely with the free speech topic. And Jimmy Kimmel is antifa. So antifa has, and Blake, have they officially been declared yet a terrorist organization or.

Blake (95:27)

Trump has announced it.

Tyler (95:28)

I don't know if he's announced it.

Blake (95:30)

Gone and signed the piece.

Graham Allen (95:31)

I don't think it's been signed.

Tyler (95:33)

I know he was in the uk so I don't know if that's officially.

Blake (95:36)

You know, it's also. What would the piece of paper say, necessarily, but.

Tyler (95:39)

Well, that's what I'd like to know. Right, so. So if that hasn't been done yet, it hasn't been done yet, but it looks like it's moving forward. It looks like it's happening and yet the entire left is running around out there saying, whoa, well, there's no such thing as antifa, so you can't designate an idea to be a terrorist organization. So, ho, ho, we got you now, Trump. You're never going to figure this one out. And I'm like, well, the way antifa works, and I've written very extensively about antifa. Blake, you and I have have talked about this for years on, on air. And it's kind of like this. It's like, is antifa an idea? Yes, it is, yeah. The same way that radical Islam is an idea and so there are radical Islamic groups that do terrorism, as it turns out. The same way that there are antifa groups that do terrorism. Yeah, it's an incredible concept and I.

Blake (96:34)

Think it's actually a valuable thing to go after because it gets us back, back to, you know, what Charlie actually died for, you know, along with his faith was free speech, that he was going on campus. Someone could not handle that. Charlie went on campus to express his views, so he shot him dead. And that is a far more extreme version of what the right had to deal with for years. In fact, what it was dealing with when Charlie first started doing his Prove me wrong events.

Tyler (97:01)

I found a video that I posted back in 2023.

Jack (97:05)

I saw that.

Tyler (97:06)

And, and I'm going to see if we have the clip here where it was from. I think it was UC Davis, where University of California, Davis, where antifa was attacking a Charlie Kirk event. And it certainly wasn't the only time that this happened. But I specifically remember this time. It was, it was bad. Oh, here it is. Clip 124. Excuse me. 125. It's on.

Blake (98:22)

So that's really what we're getting at here. So there is very violent, there is a pattern that has gone on for over a decade at this point, has not been checked. Left wing groups, whether they're from on campus or off, if there is a speaker they don't like, they will menace the event, they will bring threats against the event, they will surround the event, they'll mash doors, they'll throw things that start fires, they will derail the event. I remember Mile Yiannopoulos was going to speak at UC Berkeley. A riot blew that to pieces. I believe in 2017, Charles Murray was going to speak at Middlebury. There was a riot there. I think a professor had her arm broken at that and like got hospitalized. Not even Murray, a professor who was with him there. And it doesn't have to be on colleges either. Steve Saylor, he's talked about how he basically couldn't hold events to talk about his writing or his book for years because if they announced a location, Antifa would go and, you know, ruin the event, block it from happening. So he finally, I think you were at one of these events.

Tyler (99:22)

So I moderated an event with him and Amy Wax. It was a Lomaz passage. Press had set it up and we had to keep the location secret. And eventually we brought it out that the location actually was Union station in Washington D.C. tyler, by the way, if it ever comes up, there's a really cool event venue on the side of Union Station where you get this like one room that can hold like a couple of hundred people. It's great. But when we filmed it, we even had to keep the camera off the audience because even though it's like Amy Wax, she's a University of Pennsylvania professor and Steve Seller is a guy who writes a blog, but we know about the doxing and the threats that would happen to the people. And so the idea that all of this has gone on for all of these years and I'm sure we can all. I'll mention millions of examples, but the question I think I that we need to get into as a thought crime is the idea that just simply that yes, Antifa is real, but we also have to help the right to sort of like find the better arguments to, to say that it's real. Because the left will sit around and go, oh, well, what are you gonna do? You know, go to the Antifa office and, and close the doors.

Blake (100:38)

It's a pattern of behavior. It is using, for example, it is an Antifa thing to use, use terror tactics to engage in deplatforming. And so you will say if you were engaging in terror tactics to prevent speech in a public venue, that is basically, we're going to crack down on that. You're going to get, you're not going to get, you know, arrested and a slap on the wrist. You are going to get a decade in prison.

Jack (100:59)

Thank you.

Graham Allen (101:01)

That, that ends it really quick. At the end of the day, all of these people, whether it be Antifa or whether it just be Joe Blow on the side of the road, that they don't fear what actually happens to them by committing Crimes in many of these places, that it's going down. Harsher punishments, no tolerance, that type of thing. That's what we actually need. And I, because a lot of these people, we all know this to be true. They're all cowards in real life. That's why they show up in mobs. That's why they show up in all this stuff. Because one on one, these people are cowards.

Tyler (101:36)

One on one, they don't do anything.

Graham Allen (101:38)

Correct.

Tyler (101:38)

Right.

Graham Allen (101:38)

So one on one, you throw the book at them for actually breaking the law and doing all this stuff. All these things start to go away and they start to diminish a little bit on their own. I love that the president's doing this.

Tyler (101:51)

Every once in a while. One on one in extreme situations, do something unspeakable.

Graham Allen (101:57)

Okay, fine. Yes, yes, very true. But.

Tyler (102:00)

But not if you're talking about like if you meet him on the street.

Graham Allen (102:03)

Correct. That's what I mean. Yes, yes.

Jack (102:05)

I mean, just look at Andy Nelson.

Graham Allen (102:08)

Yes.

Jack (102:08)

All the work, I mean, the guy, his entire Persona is documenting, getting the crap beat out of him by antifa in the most antifa riddled cities in.

Blake (102:19)

America, which we'll note, just doesn't. Again, this is where we all seem to have seen this scam. We've been seeing a scam where they'll say political violence is actually way more common on the right. Yet there is no one who does this. There is no one who goes to right wing events and just gets mangled over and over again.

Tyler (102:35)

No.

Blake (102:35)

And there's no pattern where every time there's a right wing event, they have to arrest like four trannies and like 15 other assorted freak shows who like look absolutely bizarre once they're photographed. And like, oh, and this is happening day after day, week after week in cities like Portland, cities like Seattle. There's like, there's no case where just a giant public park in the middle of your city gets taken over by people who declare themselves a new independent.

Tyler (103:00)

Well, and this was, this is the crazy thing too, because that there was this study that came out in the Economist and it's going viral on Twitter and it's saying that the writers are far more violent. And then you go through and you actually look at the data set of it and it's just ridiculous. But then I went a step further and I actually looked up the guy who wrote the study and I don't know, guys, do we have the picture of this, the antifa professor? Because this guy, straight out of central casting number one, we found videos of him where he's admitting that he's a member of Antifa himself. And like, this is the guy who's getting cited in mainstream publications that then gets filtered down so that all the NPR Americans sit there and just repeat every time you mention it. Oh, well, the right does more violence than the left. I've seen studies, you know, because, because, because the experts have never been wrong, by the way. And you can't, you can't question the experts.

Graham Allen (103:57)

No, of course you can't, because they're the experts.

Tyler (104:01)

And then, oh my gosh, look at this guy. Look at, I mean, and yes, that's a human. And of course, yes, it has a nose ring, the septum piercing.

Jack (104:14)

It's always the, is always the identifier.

Tyler (104:17)

As a, I mean, as a guy. Yeah, like, as a guy to have that is just. I don't even know that really is. And by the way, I don't think I'd ever seen a picture of this guy before. Maybe I did years ago, because he was involved in. This guy, by the way, was charged at one point in the assault on Donald Trump's first inauguration. J20 and he was one of the ones who was arrested. But then the ACLU came in and got them to drop the charges because they said, oh, you did a mass arrest and you can't do that. That even though they were conducting a mass riot at this inauguration and were attacking people blocking traffic like they blocked my traffic or my car, I had to get out. And I confronted them on the, on 395 in, in Washington deep, the, you know, elevated highway in Washington, D.C. and you know, you see this, you see this guy and you're like, it's just, it's just central cat. You can't even make it up. You just can't even make it up. And then you play the clip and he goes, he goes, oh, yeah, you know, I used to be a member of this group called Anti Racist Action. I guess today you'd call it Antifa. And I pulled up a quote from him. He said, I regret, I regret trading my Semtext for spreadsheets and like wanting to do violence and just being so completely open about wanting violence, having participated in violence at the Trump inauguration, the first one in 2017. And it's just this type of behavior that has gone on has completely infested our institutions, completely infested our country. And yes, of course, Blake, to your point, he works at a nonprofit and he says what he does is just research. I'm just documenting far Right. Activity.

Graham Allen (106:00)

Yeah.

Jack (106:01)

You know, and this is the one thing that really irks me and this is really important that Angelo brought up in the chat. Producer Angela, though Charlie, at the end of his life was targeted by the federal government during the Biden administration. He talked about that loosely, which, which.

Tyler (106:20)

We'Re now starting to publicly learn more about as well.

Jack (106:23)

We're going, we're going to learn a lot more about it. Yeah, I, I've been targeted. All of us at Turning Point have. And we were like just kind of just, you know, promoting that big government sucks and talking on campus and having open debates and doing those types of activities. These people are literally violent criminals running, you know, destroying property, hurting people, doing things like that. The government's never investigated those people. In fact, that clip, like, really almost triggers me a little bit because they did that school did nothing when they, they bashed in the glass on, on that at that place. They would have hurt somebody had they been able to get their hands on somebody. Joe Baba was actually dangerously close to those people. They would have happily hurt. Joe.

Tyler (107:07)

I'm just going to say it. And the. It only took one of them. With one of them, that one had a firearm. Handgun.

Jack (107:14)

That's it. Clearly. Clearly.

Tyler (107:16)

And they, they did this to, to at Turning Point events with like Riley Gaines and Livy Kuk.

Jack (107:21)

And it's, it's a very close again.

Tyler (107:23)

And again and again.

Jack (107:24)

Next step. But none of these people have ever been investigated. No, again, during the, the summer of law of. Nobody was charged and investigated in any of those city burnings. And on our side, we were targeted. People should be insanely offended at the, the dichotomy that exists.

Tyler (107:45)

We live through four years of tyranny and we just need to start getting. There's water there if you need. We just need to start getting used to saying it, that we lived through four years of actual tyranny at a time where the government should go after these people.

Jack (107:59)

Government should go after.

Tyler (108:00)

Yes.

Jack (108:00)

You know, again, Antifa, a long time ago should have been labeled as a terrorist organization, domestic terrorist organization. So the government can go after these people and clean up the streets. This is part of the problem in America. We have, we have black violence that's happening on the streets. We have white violence that's happening on the streets. A lot of the white violence that's happening, unfortunately, and we've seen it firsthand in some of these cities, whether it's Portland or we've seen them congregate in Washington D.C. during the last Trump administration, in Philadelphia. These are violent white criminals in most of these cases and in these antifa gangs, they're mass that we've seen, we've.

Tyler (108:42)

Seen them firsthand even and even Utah.

Jack (108:45)

And I'll bring this up here too, when we. I posted this clip actually that Charlie wasn't afraid of anything. I posted a clip of Charlie us getting assaulted by antifa in Philadelphia where they came.

Tyler (108:55)

It's a breakfast thing, right?

Jack (108:56)

It's a breakfast thing. It was just such a funny situation. Not haha funny, but kind of funny to look back on. Every police officer in downtown Philadelphia is black. All of these people who are chasing us out of the. Out of that breakfast place were white antifa. They were all antifa. They were a antifa gang that just happened to be assembling outside of our breakfast thing and turned around and noticed us. We ended up getting protected by all these incredible black cops who were stopping or thwarting all these white. It was crazy. I'll never forget that moment. But. But Charlie stood, looked these people in the eyes and wouldn't back down no matter how much they were spitting on us and throwing stuff at us and all that. And again just led right up to, to where we are today, where Charlie literally got murdered by the exact same type of. Of animosity that's been allowed to stoke within America all these years.

Tyler (109:56)

And I just keep saying it and I had a leftist lose his mind on me when I brought this up on the debate the other day on Piers Morgan that one of the bullet casings said hey fascist, catch. And another one of the bullet casings had the song Bella Chow written on it. And Bella Chow is among other things, but is also the international anthem of antifa. It just is. And that is not something that is not a reference that you would necessarily know unless you had been interacting with that type of ideology, which is all over TikTok, by the way. That type, these type of symbols that have have gone from the blogosphere and news groups and bulletin boards, you know, anonymous bulletin boards online where antifa was throughout like the 90s and early 2000s and was actually involved in like the punk scene in the 80s. That's how it came over from the UK and Germany and then it's just morphed into social media and now it's all across TikTok. But it's the same symbols. That's what I'm trying to express us. It's the same symbols and it's the same ideology. And it's very simple. And the way you respond to them as well, when you say. When they say, oh, anti fascism, well, that just means I'm not a fascist. So anyone who's against me is obviously a fascist. It's like when you call yourself, hey, we're the good guy team, and anyone against us is a bad guy because we're the good guy team. And one of my favorite proofs against this is that. So you guys heard of the Berlin Wall before, right? The Berlin Wall.

Graham Allen (111:38)

So who rings about.

Blake (111:39)

So it was called the anti fascist Rampart.

Tyler (111:41)

It was, it was literally called the anti. The antifa Protection Rampart by the communist government of East Germany, because the communist government didn't. They don't refer to themselves as communist. Right. People's Republics and the German Democratic Republic and all of these things, but their state ideology, if you actually go into the East German records, was anti fascism. So everything was done in the name of anti fascism. So they're, you know, they're secret police. Well, we're the anti fascist secret police. Right. We're not communists. No, we're just anti fascist. So this is just a communist trick that has existed since the Bolsheviks and Leon Trotsky created it all the way back in the 1930s. It's just a communist trick. And I feel bad that I think now, now I don't see conservatives falling for it, but there was a time where conservatives really fell for this thing. And you just have to push back. You have to push back. And don't. Don't take any of the crap. Do not take any of the crap anymore. We know who antifa is. We know what side they're on. And yes, it is very clear that someone who ascribed to that ideology fired a shot at the man who sat in this chair right here. Here.

Jack (112:57)

That's right.

Tyler (112:58)

And it's got to be said.

Jack (112:59)

And it, and it can't. It cannot be forgotten. It cannot be overwritten. That history cannot be overwritten.

Tyler (113:04)

Right. No.

Jack (113:05)

And that's why it's so important for.

Tyler (113:06)

The bullet was written.

Jack (113:08)

This is the reason why it's so important. And I had, we had some friends that were advocating for this. And, and you know who you are, and so thank you for advocating for this with the president to get this done. There's some really good people who had contacted me and let me know that this was going to be happening immediately. And this is why it's so important for the president to do this, is because it is an important moment in history to pinpoint that this was an overlooked element even. Yes. In the first Trump administration. This should have been taken care of. This should have been talked about. This should have been handled. And this particularly has escalated over the last four years under Biden, that Antifa has to be recognized for what it is so we can dissuade people from participating in organized crime in America. And this is criminal. These are criminals.

Tyler (113:59)

Simple as that.

Jack (114:00)

And they killed our friend, and we will never forget that. And the history books will tell that they killed our friend and the President Trump did something about it. And that is really critical not just for the American psyche, but for justice to prevail in the wake of, of what happened to Charlie Kirk.

Tyler (114:18)

I, I tweeted this thing out the other day and it's just, it's just taken on a life of its own. And it's, it's just this phrase that I keep saying over and over and people have started saying it too, and, and we got a wrap here in a minute, but I saw a leftist murder Charlie Kirk, and I saw them celebrate it. I saw a leftist murder Charlie Kirk, and I saw them celebrate it. And any, anytime they give you any of that crap, you just repeat it. You just repeat it it right in their faces. I saw leftist murder Charlie Kirk, and I saw them celebrate it. And they can't break you. They cannot break you. Just go around the horn kind of. Last thoughts, obviously. Much love to Erica if, if you're watching or if she's, you know, I know she's running around doing other stuff, getting ready for Sunday and, but if she happens to listen later, just, just know that we're, we're praying for you and, and we're doing this show, of course, in Charlie's honor.

Blake (115:13)

Blake, I'm just thinking, I, I, I, I was thinking how we always had the rule that we didn't, we didn't have women on Thought Crime, but I feel like we'll have to change that rule probably.

Tyler (115:26)

Whoa. Mrs. Erica Kirk on Thought Crime, man, you're like, after everything, she's man.

Jack (115:35)

Hey, hey, we saw the CL clip. She's more based.

Tyler (115:37)

She's Charlie.

Jack (115:39)

She has thought crimes.

Blake (115:41)

Charlie would never allow him to think.

Tyler (115:43)

Oh, so well, that could be. I don't know. I don't know. We will see. We will see if she wants to come on, then. Absolutely. Of course.

Jack (115:53)

I just want to say this is that it's like we talked about at the top of the show. It's just such an honor to, to be leaning on you guys this week. It's been hard. I know some people might watch this and go, how are you guys capable of functioning because everybody I go to I've seen has just been bawling and been on our shoulder. I think every shirt I have this week has been covered in makeup and tears and snot and everything else. And I'll tell you, like, off camera, we've had some hard, hard times, all of us here. So we've. This is. We want to do this stuff for Charlie and we want to keep this up, not just for Charlie, but for the entire team That's. We have a great family that's here, and everyone supported one another, and it's just been. That's been a horrible week, the worst of weeks, maybe the worst week of our entire lives. But at the same time, it's been a huge blessing to be able to lean on each other and see everybody stepping up and loving on each other. So I hope everybody listening. I hope you'll go home and be at home and love on your families. And then, of course, keep praying for, for Erica, her kids, and our entire Turning Point family that's here.

Tyler (117:07)

Graham.

Graham Allen (117:09)

Well, to follow that, I just. It has been a hard week. You know, we have a really cool thing over at Dear America. However, I often tell Tyler this, and Jack, I think I've told you this as well. There's something about being on an island by yourself that in this world that we fight in, and then when something so tragic like this happens, I'm just thankful to you guys for always being there for. For me and my family. I'm thankful to Charlie for that as well. Erica. Erica and my wife speak pretty, pretty frequently as well, and they've just always been. Been the best even. Even when things didn't work out the way that I thought that they might like running for Congress back in 2022 and things like that. Charlie and you, Tyler and Turning Point, you guys have always had my back and, and when you didn't have to, and, and even now, even now, you didn't have to let me come in here. You know, there's. There's plenty of other people that probably want. Want to be here, and you guys are being flooded with that. But even now, it's just. It's really nice to be around family and be around you guys, and it's, It's. It still is very weird to me to sit next to the chair right now, but I needed this as well. I needed to get here, and I wish I could have got here sooner, but I'm thankful to be here now, so, so just honored to be here.

Tyler (118:50)

I'll say the it just from my side. It felt good doing the show tonight, didn't it?

Jack (118:55)

It's a good, good distraction from.

Tyler (118:57)

Yeah, it's a good. Just. Just. But. But this is the work, right? This is the work. And it's like knowing that. Knowing that this is what Charlie would have wanted us to keep doing and that, you know, obviously last week we were in no position to do the show, but that we're going to do it. That we're going to do it even if we have to have Graham Allen here.

Graham Allen (119:22)

It's getting pretty desperate at this point, if that's where we're at.

Tyler (119:26)

Scraping the.

Jack (119:27)

We're going to do a lot in honor of Charlie, and this is one of the many things that I think that hopefully will give people a lot of hope and again, that beacon to look to so we can keep organizing, keep working our butts off.

Tyler (119:38)

So Amen to that, ladies and gentlemen, as always. Go out there and commit more thought. Crime.

Graham Allen (119:49)

Is death.