Humanitarian Frontiers – “Where to Next?” (May 14, 2025)

Podcast: Humanitarian Frontiers
Host: Chris Hoffman
Co-host: Nassim Motelaby
Episode: 10 (Finale of ‘Humanitarian Frontiers in AI’ Season)
Theme: Reflecting on how AI is transforming the humanitarian sector, key lessons learned, sector challenges, public-private partnerships, and the path forward.

Overview: Episode Purpose & Main Theme

The final episode of "Humanitarian Frontiers in AI" surveys a year of turbulent change in the humanitarian sector amidst rapid AI adoption. Chris Hoffman and Nassim Motelaby reflect on sector-wide learning, organizational adaptation, and what meaningful, ethical innovation looks like for the future. They discuss business model challenges, private sector partnerships, localization versus scalability, upskilling, and governance, all set against the ongoing transformation and instability in the global aid landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reflections on the Season & Shifting Sector Context

• The hosts acknowledge the journey of the podcast and thank supporters like Innovation Norway for fostering a platform for diverse voices and timely conversation ([00:48–02:59]).

• Quote:
  “It has just been amazing, amazing guests to share the space with you and I feel like we've learned a lot… it also changed a little bit of my worldview on certain things, on the practicalities and the step by step processes that we need to take to do this.”
  — Chris Hoffman [01:12]

• Noted is the ‘collapse’ in some donor spaces and the increasing urgency across organizations to explore and implement AI options.

How the Sector is (and Isn’t) Adopting AI

• Early skepticism or ignorance about AI in humanitarian spaces is shifting to focused curiosity and upskilling ([04:03–07:32]).

• Many started as cautious bystanders but growing fear of job insecurity and drive for efficiency are motivating upskilling among humanitarians.

• Progress is “moving towards working with AI more effectively,” but capacity building and internal process development lag.

• Quote:
  “We’re progressing into... working with AI more effectively and upskilling. The upskilling has not happened to its fullest capacity, but we see that transition happening.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [05:20]

• Many organizations lack structured processes to integrate new technology, mirroring past waves like blockchain and mobile apps.

Business Models & Public-Private Partnerships: The Sustainability Gap

• There is persistent confusion in the sector about business models and sustainability, often defaulting to philanthropic relationships rather than investment partnerships ([07:32–12:16]).

• Humanitarian organizations struggle to articulate the business case and return on investment (ROI) for technology efforts, which undermines sustainability.

• A key paradox: the sector wants localization (community-driven, context-adapted solutions) but also craves global scalability—a tension often unresolved in practice.

• Notable Moment:
  “What I'm seeing is the gap is really that business model for us in the humanitarian sector. And that is the reason a lot of the initiatives that we invest in doesn't become a sustainable investment… a lot of times we are seen as philanthropic entity and private sector is interested to just support us in a philanthropic way. So it becomes kind of a donation than an investment.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [10:45]

• There’s a call to reframe localization and scalability: focus on locally-relevant business models and sustainable micro-scale impact, not only global scale.

Open Source, Governance, and the Challenges of Process

• While open source gets touted as a solution, the lack of sector-wide governance, security, and reliable support make it a challenge ([15:32–24:16]).

• Open source is often not cost-free—organizations still pay for customization, integration, and ongoing maintenance; they lack dedicated structures to manage these tools.

• There is a trust gap around open source and dependency on private, often for-profit partners for mission-critical tech tools.

• New risks arise with AI, such as “package threats” stemming from AI-generated code that may introduce vulnerabilities.

• Quote:
  “Sometimes we forget that open source actually may cost more.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [22:34]

Rethinking Technological Adaptation & Governance

• Humanitarian actors often try to map new technology onto outdated, analog processes, missing the need for new digital paradigms ([24:16–28:43]).

• Traditional procurement processes and cost-analysis methods don’t fit the flexible, iterative nature of AI/tech deployment.

• Governance models must extend beyond compliance to include proactivity, community engagement, and adaptation to rapid change.

• Memorable Exchange:
  “Organizations want to take their current paper form, their paper survey and they just then put it into Kobo toolbox… then they wonder why the answers aren't very robust... I think you need to change the way that you ask the question because when you ask it digitally, people are in a different space.”
  — Chris Hoffman [24:16]

Organizational Change: Upskilling, Engagement, and the Need for Advocacy

• The expansion of partnerships needs fundamental process reform, wider staff upskilling, and a switch from seeking discounts to building cost-shared, value-based innovation ([28:43–31:55]).

• “Field-based voices” (i.e., voices from local implementation) must drive problem identification and solution design, while headquarters adapts procurement and partnership frameworks to be more inclusive and effective.

• Quote:
  “Public private partnerships people, I think need to switch their communication... and I think the field based voice needs to rise up a bit more because their ability to identify problems is much better than us sitting at a headquarters level.”
  — Chris Hoffman [29:29]

The Localization Paradox & Philosophical Questions

• Enduring tension exists between scaling up technology globally and ensuring alignment with local needs and values ([31:55–36:59]).

• Question remains whether current technologies (e.g., LLMs, AI tools) are wanted or useful in the field, or if they risk being exploitative or irrelevant.

• Humanitarians need to move from “donor-driven” to “facilitator-driven” models; success should be measured by empowerment and handover—not ownership.

• Quote:
  “Still to this day, we're talking about LLMs and AI as a foreign technology that we're going to bring to the community because they can benefit from it. And we want to close the digital gap, the information gap, all of this, but we still haven't figured out if that's what the community wants.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [33:02]

Long-Term Impact, Handover, and the Humanitarian-Development Divide

• Debate about the handover process: does the sector fail at planning for sustainability, handoff, or long-term community empowerment? ([36:37–37:05]).

• The humanitarian-development “nexus” remains unresolved, especially in stabilizing, prolonged crises.

• Quote:
  “Do I pull out as a humanitarian organization or do I stay and bring through the rest of the journey through fragility into stability? And I just don't think organizations yet… are able to pivot very well in that space.”
  — Chris Hoffman [34:16]

Key Takeaways & Future Hopes

• The season brought crucial cross-sector conversations to light, which both hosts hope will inform listeners in the private sector eager to engage ethically in humanitarian innovation ([36:59–40:43]).

• Importance of advocacy and education—bridging the language and culture gap between the humanitarian sector and the tech industry.

• Farewell Note:
  “It's sad to say goodbye, but it's not goodbye. It’s until next time… we still have drones and robots and agentic AI and everything else to talk about.”
  — Chris Hoffman [39:54, 40:26]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On donors and timeliness:
  “Having the support of such an innovative donor… has really allowed this conversation to move ahead versus just kind of stagnate as sometimes it happens in our sector.”
  — Chris Hoffman [01:43]

• On fear and adaptation:
  “There is a lot of discussion around how is AI bringing that efficiency. And that also is creating this challenge for people who are afraid of losing their job and their job security is at risk.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [06:47]

• On organizational barriers:
  “Organizations don't have the processes yet, even with other technologies… they don't have the requisite process to deal with technology in a sector that's predominantly face to face human interaction.”
  — Chris Hoffman [07:46]

• On open source & governance:
  “There are many, many open source tools, platforms… The problem is again the trust.... open source doesn't necessarily mean zero cost for organizations.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [21:57]

• On local priorities:
  “We still haven't figured out if that's what the community wants. And I think this is a philosophical question at large… whether technology is going to bring value or going to be exploitative in that situation.”
  — Nassim Motelaby [33:02]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Reflections & Season Recap: [00:48–02:59]
• Adoption arc of AI in the sector: [04:03–07:32]
• Business models & partnership challenges: [07:32–15:32]
• Open source, process, and governance gaps: [15:32–24:16]
• Tech adaptation & the analog/digital divide: [24:16–28:43]
• Reshaping partnerships and power dynamics: [28:43–31:55]
• Localization versus scalability: [31:55–36:59]
• Handovers & the localization paradox: [36:37–37:05]
• Technology’s philosophical impacts: [33:02–38:59]
• Farewell & future topics: [39:54–40:52]

Final Thoughts

This episode thoughtfully wraps up a season of dynamic, sometimes contentious discussions about the intersection of AI and humanitarian practice. It highlights that while technology brings potential, lasting progress will depend on reimagining business models, fostering real partnerships, putting community needs first, and reshaping mindsets—within humanitarian organizations and with external partners. As the hosts suggest, the conversation is far from over.