A Song for Ethan

Summary

---

Hyperfixed: “A Song for Ethan”

Host: Alex Goldman
Producer: Amor Yates
Date: October 9, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of Hyperfixed, host Alex Goldman investigates a strange, hilarious, and unexpectedly heartwarming digital mystery: Why are there so many quirky, slightly embarrassing “Ethan Poop” songs on Spotify? Listener Manon writes in about her little brother Ethan being on the receiving end of these songs and wants to know: Are these tunes composed by mischievous humans, churned out by artificial intelligence, or something else entirely? Along the journey, the show explores internet micro-trends, the oddball world of personalized song production, the artistry (and ethics) of AI in music, and the joys and absurdities that tie siblings together—plus delivers a custom, poop-free “song for Ethan” to celebrate him for who he really is.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Sibling Dynamic & Origin of the Mystery

• Manon’s Story

  • Manon, a half-French, half-American journalist in Liberia, shares a tight sibling bond with her brother Ethan. Their nomadic childhoods forged their closeness and a unique family humor, rich in bathroom jokes and gentle teasing.
  • Quote: “In the family in general, we always have like, if someone’s mentioning that they’re going to the bathroom, the joke is usually like, ‘don’t fall in!’” — Manon (04:38)

• The Incident

  • During a trip to Rockaway Beach, Ethan suffered an embarrassing “accident” (he pooped his pants), which later became an inside joke among the family, especially after Ethan’s girlfriend Rachel broke the news.
  • Quote: “And you know, I’m maybe five, six steps away from that restroom when it just happens. And I shit myself.” — Ethan (07:27)

• The Prank

  • At work, Ethan pulled a prank by playing songs with a co-worker’s name, but his girlfriend Rachel turned the tables, searching for “Ethan” songs on Spotify—uncovering a trove of poop-centric tracks that felt bizarrely personal.

---

2. Unpacking the “Ethan Poop” Song Phenomenon

• Are These Songs Targeted?

  • Manon’s journalistic curiosity is piqued. She wonders if the songs could be AI-generated, if they’re made by humans cashing in on streaming micro-trends, or if there’s some surreal targeted vendetta—especially since one song mentions France (their family’s heritage).
    • Quote: “Is it a human? Is it AI?…How does the decision making process happen?” — Manon (08:41)
    • Quote: “So it almost feels like they’re talking about your Ethan.” — Amor Yates (09:10)
    • Quote: “That's exactly what it is.” — Manon (09:14)

• All in Good Fun… or Manufactured Nonsense?

  • Ethan is more bemused by the lack of positive Ethan songs than offended by the poop fixation.
    • Quote: “Maybe the solution is actually to have more of those. But what else does Ethan do?” — Ethan (09:42)

---

3. Detecting AI in the Wild: Music Edition

• Auditory Inspection

  • Alex and Amor listen closely to several “Ethan” songs, debating whether they’re the product of human silliness or artificial intelligence.
  • Alex expresses suspicion that the awkward humor and “stupid humanity” in some tracks feel too eccentric for AI.
    • Quote: “That one also…has too much humanity. Like, too much stupid humanity to it to feel like AI to me, it feels like a person being silly.” — Alex (12:40)
    • Quote: “See, that can’t be AI because AI would never come up with a word like ‘smelliny.’” — Alex (13:53)

• Expert Consultation: Ben Jordan

  • Musician and audio researcher Ben Jordan explains the “black box” issue of AI music generators (like Suno and Udio), and how he reverse-engineered a detection method by tracing unique audio compression artifacts left in AI-generated MP3s.
    • Quote: “It seems like it’s a magic trick when you first type in a prompt and then a song is made.” — Ben Jordan (16:23)
    • Quote: “I designed my own AI model that could analyze songs and recognize files created by SUNO based solely on the compression patterns of data in the audio file.” — Ben Jordan (22:12)

• Result: The Truth About the “Poop Songs”

  • Ben’s analysis of the songs: Three out of four are made by humans, but one—“Ethan Smells Like a Llama (Ethan Poop)”—was definitely created by AI on Suno.

    • Quote: “Three out of the four are not AI. And ‘Ethan Smells Like a Llama, Ethan Poop,’ that one was made on Suno.” — Ben Jordan (23:02)

  • Irony: The only AI-generated song was the one Alex found oddly catchy.

    • Quote: “The one song that I liked…ended up being the only song that pinged as AI in Ben’s model. And I think that’s a testament to just how good AI’s gotten.” — Alex (23:54)

---

4. The King of Poop Songs: Matt Farley

• Meet Matt Farley

  • Alex reconnects with Matt Farley—a prolific artist with over 26,000 songs on Spotify, many dedicated to “poop” and people’s names.

    • Quote: “It was always my instinct to write tons of songs… I’m just gonna make so much music that they can’t ignore me.” — Matt Farley (31:20)

  • Matt’s “stream of consciousness” songwriting and cheerful excess are a perfect fit for internet trends driven by vanity searches and childish humor.

    • Quote: “As every parent knows, the first thing a kid does when faced with a computer prompt is to search the word ‘poop.’” — Alex (32:16)

  • Other copycat artists like Poops, Super Poop, and Reckless Otter have arisen, which Matt takes in stride—though he asserts that his “poop songs” have more vitality.

    • Quote: “I do sometimes feel there’s a lack of humanity to a lot of the other people’s named poop songs where it sounds very, very robotic, whereas I think mine sound very, very full of life… I like mine better.” — Matt Farley (37:04)

• Financials of Fecal Fame

  • Matt is candid about streaming payout realities: Some songs earn thousands, others “five cents minus.”
    • Quote: “One song in a year could earn $5,000+… many songs in a year earn $0.05 minus.” — Matt Farley (35:03)

---

5. Making It Personal: A New Song for Ethan

• From Ridicule to Honor

  • To remedy Ethan’s disappointment over being reduced to poop jokes, Alex asks Matt to compose a custom, celebratory, non-poop-related song just for Ethan.
    • Quote: “I wanted to give Ethan one more song that, unlike the others, was really meant for him and didn’t include any mention of poop.” — Alex (38:05)

• World Premiere of “Song for Ethan”

  • At Ethan’s New York whiskey bar, the new song debuts to Ethan’s delight—later echoed by Manon listening across the ocean in Liberia.

    • [39:40]
      Sample Lyrics:
      “Ethan, you’re so great and you make people smile
      Ethan, you’re a genius of flavor profile
      At Caledonia, people wait…”

    • Quote: “It’s just sort of nice to create special moments even when we’re not together, which is a lot harder to do.” — Manon (40:05)

• Creating New Bonds at a Distance

  • The episode ends on a tender note as the new “Ethan song” becomes a new touchstone for the far-flung family.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Ethan’s Reluctant Fame:
  “For some reason, most songs that have my name in them end up being about Ethan pooping his pants.” — Ethan (06:20)
• Musical Forensics:
  “Our human ear is not a very good scientific measuring device… It’s interpreted by our brains. It’s very subjective.” — Ben Jordan (22:37)
• About Songwriting as Work:
  “Does it ever start to feel like a slog?… Oh no, no, it’s a slog. Everything… But you love accomplishing the marathon.” — Matt Farley (33:34)
• On AI Music Detection:
  “When Ben realized this, he had his Eureka moment: ‘What if we just look for [compression artifacts] to see if there’s a bunch of these artifacts that are in this music?’” — Alex Goldman (22:04)
• Sibling Bonds Across Continents:
  “Usually…you’re on a call catching up on life. You’re not creating new memories and new moments and new things to bond over as easily… I really enjoyed that.” — Manon (40:05)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:18 – Manon and Ethan’s childhood, family humor, and bond
• 07:27 – The infamous bathroom incident in New York
• 08:41 – Manon’s investigation: Are the poop songs human or AI?
• 10:47 – Alex & Amor listen to “Ethan Poop” songs, try to guess their origins
• 16:23 – AI music and the “black box”; intro to Ben Jordan’s detection method
• 23:02 – Results: which Ethan songs are AI, which are human
• 30:12 – Introduction to Matt Farley, king of custom song micro-genres
• 35:03 – The economics of streaming as explained by Matt Farley
• 38:57 – Premiere of Matt Farley’s personalized, positive “Song for Ethan”
• 40:05 – Manon reflects on family, distance, and the special new memory

---

Closing Thoughts

“A Song for Ethan” showcases Hyperfixed at its best—turning a weird, personal internet annoyance into an exploration of how culture, technology, family, and humor intersect. The episode is as much about the resilience of sibling bonds as it is about algorithmic oddities, and lands a warm, musical ending with Ethan celebrated in a whole new light.

---

Listen to Matt Farley’s custom songs:
moturnmedia.com/custom-songs
Find “Song for Ethan” & other tracks on Spotify (link in show notes).

---

Transcript

[Alex Goldman]

Jonathan. I'm Jonathan Goldstein. And on the new season of Heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old and a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to Heavyweight wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dakota State University Announcer]

Support comes from Dakota State University. What happens when you unite dynamic minds with one revolutionary vision? A rising force on the cutting edge of everything from a little university on the prairie to a cyber powerhouse of the plains. We are proving the nation's best cyber can come from where you least expect it. Now we're molding the future of cyber AI and quantum computing one graduate at a time. See what Dakota State University is Building next at dsucyber27.com.

[Alex Goldman]

Introducing your new Dell PC. With the Intel Core Ultra processor. It helps you handle a lot, even when your holiday to do list gets to be a lot like organizing your holiday shopping and searching for great holiday deals and customer questions and customers requesting custom things. Plus planning the perfect holiday for vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, and Uncle Mike's carnivore diet. Luckily, you can get a PC with all day battery life to help you get it all done. That's the power of a Dell PC with Intel inside backed with Dell's price match guarantee. Get yours [e-mail] deals, terms and conditions apply. See Dell.com for details. Hi, I'm Alex Goldman, and this is Hyperfixed. Each week on our show, listeners write in with problems big and small. And I solve them, or at least I try. And if I don't, I at least give a good reason why I can't. This week, a song about Ethan. So a few months ago, Hyperfix producer Amor Yates sat down with a listener who is no stranger to bad Internet.

[Manon]

Oh, wait, wait.

[Amor Yates]

Here she is again.

[Alex Goldman]

Hi.

[Manon]

Hi. Okay, I'm back. Is it better now?

[Amor Yates]

I can see you and I can hear you.

[Manon]

Okay, that's great progress.

[Alex Goldman]

This is Manon. She's half French, half American, and she's a journalist currently based in Liberia in West Africa. Manon finds a lot of meaning in her work, but she's always far away from family. And that's what she always expected.

[Manon]

We knew that we were probably not going to be in the same country as our parents because we knew that our careers were probably not going to end up in the same place as our parents were.

[Amor Yates]

Yeah. When did you realize that was like a foreseeable outcome.

[Manon]

Probably middle school.

[Amor Yates]

That is so young.

[Alex Goldman]

Growing up, Manal and her little brother Ethan moved around the world like the Wild Thornberries, except their parents weren't documentary filmmakers and they didn't adopt a feral child named Donnie. Instead, their dad's a biogeochemist and his research took him around the world to study climate change, forestry and soil. So by the time that Manal was 18, she lived in Kenya, in Indonesia, the US and Brazil. And moving so frequently like that, Manal and Ethan built an unbreakable bond.

[Manon]

You're going to a lot of places where you don't know other people. And so in those initial days before you start making friends, it feels a little safer to have your sibling there at school with you. We can understand each other and each other's experience because we share so much of it in the ways that, like, other people can't.

[Alex Goldman]

Like the time a 14 year old Ethan rocked a very specific haircut.

[Manon]

We were living in Indonesia at the time. He had the droopy, like, side hair thing that Justin Bieber had. And packs of young girls, maybe high school age girls would want to take photos with him and my whole family would tease him about it. It was happening all the time that people were like, oh, Justin Bieber, Justin Bieber. And he didn't like it. Ethan was like, more into metal music at that age.

[Alex Goldman]

These days, Ethan is living in New York City with his girlfriend Rachel. And Manal and Ethan at this point are pretty used to the distance. They've basically created their own language every day, sometimes every other day, sometimes once a week, Manoa and Ethan will send each other animal memes or the occasional poop and fart joke. Because, you know, that's the humor they grew up with.

[Manon]

I mean, in the family in general, we always have like, if someone's mentioning that they're going to the bathroom, the joke is usually like, don't fall in or mention my name. You'll get a good seat.

[Alex Goldman]

See? Why can't I have a family like this? I'm so jealous. Anyway, bathroom jokes, dad jokes, general teasing, this is all part of their long distance sibling love language. And that kind of humor trickles into their daily lives even when they aren't together. In fact, the reason Manal reached out to us in the first place is because of Ethan. And it all started with a prank that he pulled on a colleague.

[Ethan]

A couple months ago. The Spotify on our iPad at the bar went out and we couldn't get in contact immediately with the owner of the bar to get his login to re log into the Spotify.

[Alex Goldman]

That's Ethan. Before his sister reached out to us, he'd never heard of Hyperfix. He's just not much of a podcast person. Instead, he's more interested in making craft cocktails at the Whiskey Bar he works at on the Upper east side and occasionally acting as the bar's dj.

[Ethan]

And as a prank, I decided to start looking up songs that had his name in the title and play them throughout his shift, hoping that he would just think something weird was going on with the Spotify.

[Alex Goldman]

And as Ethan's playing these songs with his coworker's name in them, his girlfriend Rachel, who also works at the same bar and is definitely sort of like a yes and kind of gal and would never say no to a good bit, she does the same thing to Ethan. She goes to Spotify, types in the name Ethan, and selects a song with his name on it and presses play.

[Ethan]

And for some reason, most songs that have my name in them end up being about Ethan pooping his pants.

[Manon]

And, well, it's hilarious. I don't think my brother's as amused as me and his girlfriend are, but we've had a lot of fun with it.

[Alex Goldman]

Now, like any older sister, even one as accomplished and mature as Manal, these songs were hilarious. But it was even funnier and more uncanny because of something that happened to Ethan on earlier this year. So Manal and her husband were visiting Ethan as a girlfriend in New York City, when one day we're just driving.

[Manon]

In New York City. I think we'd gone towards Rockaway beach, and we just stopped on the side. Like, we were just hanging out, taking a walk, trying to find a trail to walk down. And then my brother had to run to the bathroom and.

[Ethan]

And you know, I'm maybe five, six steps away from that restroom when it just happens. And I shit myself.

[Alex Goldman]

Ethan tossed his soiled underwear in the trash in the public restroom. And when he was done, when he was done hiding the evidence and his shame, Ethan met back up with his family and his girlfriend. But he didn't tell them that he pooped his pants en route to the restroom and that he'd gone commando because his soiled underwear was now sitting in the trash can in said restroom. No one was the wiser. That is, until Ethan told Rachel what happened back at the house.

[Manon]

Rachel just announced as Ethan pooped his pants. And Ethan's like, Rachel. And she was basically like, I had to tell him. I couldn't not know. So we only found out once we got home.

[Alex Goldman]

So given everything you know about Ithan and Manon and Rachel, it will not surprise you at all that as soon as she found them, Rachel sent these songs to Manon. And Manon, predictably started teasing Ethan with them. But she also had some more serious questions about who made these songs. I mean, she is a journalist, after all.

[Manon]

I mean, is it a human? Is it AI? Maybe someone's finding a way to make money out of this. But even if they are, like, how does the decision making process happen? Is what I'm really curious about. And then I think one thing that was weird to us as well is that one of the titles says, like, poop your pants or go to France. But we're half French and my parents live in France. So we were like, it's a coincidence, obviously, because I don't think whoever made these songs knows my brother. But it's funny.

[Amor Yates]

So it almost feels like they're talking about your Ethan.

[Manon]

Right? Exactly. That's exactly what it is.

[Alex Goldman]

As crazy as it sounds, for Manon, these songs feel personal. And she couldn't shake this feeling that there was more to these innocuous poop tunes. But as far as Ethan's concerned, he's not too bothered by the existence of these songs. What he is bothered by is the fact that there just aren't enough Ethan songs out there in the first place.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I mean, maybe the solution is actually to have more of those. But what else does Ethan do?

[Alex Goldman]

You know, all of Manal's questions boil down, why? Why are these poop songs a thing? Why are there so many? Why do they exist? And why is someone compelled to make them in the first place? And for Ethan, the songs serve as a reminder. A reminder that there aren't enough Ethan songs. Because there is a lot more to Ethan than the time he pooped his pants at the beach. No matter how many times I remind you that he did poop his pants pretty recently. Ethan is much more than just the poop he left in the public restroom in Long Island.

[Amor Yates]

Hey, Alex.

[Alex Goldman]

Hi, amor.

[Amor Yates]

Okay, so I spoke to Manon, and her questions were largely around like, why do these exist? But also, are these human or are they AI? Before we get started on this journey, I wanted to play these Ethan songs for you. Do you want to hear them?

[Alex Goldman]

I absolutely do.

[Amor Yates]

Okay. I have them queued up here, so I'm going to play the first one.

[Alex Goldman]

I'm so excited.

[Amor Yates]

Okay, here we go.

[Alex Goldman]

Jesus Christ. I gotta admit, the drum loop's kind of sick, though.

[Manon]

Yeah.

[Amor Yates]

I like that.

[Alex Goldman]

Derek, are there lyrics or is it just farts?

[Amor Yates]

Oh, there will be lyrics.

[Alex Goldman]

You're so bad, baby. You're so bad.

[Matt Farley]

You're so bad.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, baby. Hey, Ethan, you heard your stomach rumbling and then the poop came tumbling. Jesus Christ, you just pooped your pants. I like the auto tune, though. It kind of had like a. Like, a T pain vibe to it.

[Amor Yates]

I'm gonna fade out of that because it just. It's much of the same. But when you hear that, do you think it's AI?

[Alex Goldman]

I honestly cannot tell. I mean, I would think that AI would actually try to go for something that sounds more realistic. So, like, that, to me, sounds like the decision of a human to use, like, a voice that robotic. But also the robotic voice gives me a little pause. You know what I mean?

[Amor Yates]

Yeah. So that's by an artist called Poops with a Z. I'm gonna play another one for you.

[Alex Goldman]

Okay.

[Matt Farley]

You smell like doodoo.

[Alex Goldman]

I love the fact that. That all these songs are like pop songs. They, like, just want people to dance and hear fart sounds.

[Manon]

Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

Honestly, that one also, like, it has too much humanity. Like, too much stupid humanity to it to feel like AI to me, it feels like a. Like a person being silly.

[Amor Yates]

What does stupid humanity sound like to you versus AI?

[Alex Goldman]

When you create a song that's AI it's meant to sound like real music, like good music. And this, to me, sounds like a person just having fun. Like the way that the voice is kind of slowed down and stuff. Like, AI is getting served a billion songs, and then it's supposed to regurgitate something that sounds like the sort of aggregate of those songs rather than something that's intentionally bizarre. Mm.

[Amor Yates]

So on the spectrum of AI to human, you're leaning towards human?

[Alex Goldman]

Yes. I have a hunch that these songs are made by people, but I truly have no idea.

[Amor Yates]

Okay, this is another artist called Super Poop.

[Alex Goldman]

Every one of these starts with a fart. Sounded so stupid.

[Amor Yates]

The fart is a very powerful musical instrument. Man made.

[Alex Goldman]

Hey, Ethan, if you don't stop pooping in your pants, we're gonna make you move to France. Pack your bags and buy a beret when you go away we'll all say hooray, poopy pants are a felony we don't want a smell any. A smell any. See, that can't be AI because AI would never come up with a word like smell any. I just don't believe. I just can't believe that being in the case.

[Amor Yates]

Okay, so to you, this sounds human?

[Ben Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

Yes, I would say the word smelliny is a dead giveaway. Unless you were, like, compose a song about Ethan farting or pooping with trap beats and, like, Lewis Carroll style rhymes. Because, you know, Lewis Carroll, Dallas in Wonderland, he used to make up a lot of gibberish words and stuff. It just doesn't seem like this could be A.I.

[Amor Yates]

Okay, so again, that was Super Poops, Ethan Smells like Llama, Parentheses Ethan poop. Okay, so one of the other things that Manal was wondering is if any of these artists had, like, some kind of secret vendetta against Ethan. Because obviously there are several Ethan poop songs, but I don't think there is any vendetta against her Ethan, or any Ethan for that matter. And that's because all of these artists are making songs with other people's names in them. So Poops, who I played for you first has lots of songs like this. He has Andy pooped his pants, Aaron pooped his pants, and Alex pooped his pants again.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, okay.

[Amor Yates]

That's also the case with Reckless Otter. Reckless Otter has a whole album called Cowboy farter that uses 50 different names. My favorite is Abby Smells like Donald Trump's Diaper. And the other thing that Manal was particularly struck with is this fact that these poop songs seem to have kind of like, an uncanny resemblance to her brother's poop experience. And also the fact that one of these songs makes mention to France and Ethan is French. But I think it's pretty clear that France is mentioned because it rhymes with pants.

[Alex Goldman]

That's right.

[Amor Yates]

Yeah. But the thing I was hoping for, instead of just playing these songs for you and asking if you think they're AI is to see if there's some way to truly determine whether or not they are. And so that's the thing we need to figure out first. So I don't know, Alex, do you have any ideas on how we can figure this out?

[Alex Goldman]

Okay, believe it or not, I know exactly the person to answer this question.

[Ben Jordan]

It seems like it's a magic trick when you first type in a prompt and then a song is made. I mean, and it is. It's a pretty rad magic trick.

[Alex Goldman]

This is Ben Jordan. He's a musician, a freelance scientist, and a YouTuber. And a lot of his videos are based on his research and study of sound. And, you know, as a musician himself, Ben thinks a lot about the role of AI in music. And to some degree, he's right. AI is a magic trick. One that's constantly getting better and has gotten so good that it's harder than ever to figure out what's AI and what isn't. And if I can show my hand a little bit. I am not a fan of AI generated art of any kind. And the reason, I think, that it's important that we know what's AI and what is made by people is because AI songs are growing in popularity and volume. And if human artists have to compete with AI which can generate music at an alarmingly rapid rate, how are listeners supposed to know what's human and what's not if the streaming platforms won't label it? A good example of this is an AI Band that went viral earlier this year called Velvet Sundown. They put out two albums right away and then a third album within three weeks, and quickly got 1 million streams on Spotify. It only came out that they were actually AI when they released a band photo. And the band looked kind of fake, sort of like cartoon characters, not very realistically rendered. But what's even scarier than the writing speed of an AI band like Velvet Sundown is what happens when AI is training on your sound. And that's exactly what happened to Ben when he typed his own name into an AI Music generator.

[Ben Jordan]

The thing that kind of made steam come out of my ears with AI Music was not so much knowing that my music was being put into the pool of things that were being trained in general. Like, if somebody types in a prompt that says, you know, glitchy break horror. And if some of my stuff is in there, I don't care. But I did have the misfortune of inputting my own name into Udio and then hearing really crappy music that sounds like it's inspired my mind, which is.

[Alex Goldman]

Mm.

[Ben Jordan]

And now it's being. You know, that's being sold as a service of. All my royalties go down on streaming networks every single year. And all these things are now being put up on those streaming networks to compete with me. So economically as an artist, I'm just like, well, I don't need to do. I'm just not going to do this anymore. And I just stopped releasing music for a while because I was kind of fed up with it.

[Alex Goldman]

AI doesn't live in the world we live in. It doesn't have groceries, car payments, rent, or aging parents. It doesn't need the money that Ben needs when he handcrafts a song and releases it into the world. Ben gets paid when people push play on his music, but if people are pushing play on a song that sounds like Ben because it was inspired by him, Ben doesn't get any of that money. And right now, the companies who are distributing the music aren't empowering consumers to decide who they want to support with their click. A three dimensional man or a program that was trained on songs made by that three dimensional man. But that's way easier said than done, because according to Ben, an AI program like Udio, the one that he typed his name into, or another one you might be familiar with.

[Ben Jordan]

Suno, everything that's going on inside of it is a black box.

[Alex Goldman]

And that's because no one really knows how AI comes to its conclusions. Even the people who make AI aren't sure what's going on in AI. For instance, about seven years ago, Google used an AI to scan medical records to help predict patients, future diseases, and when they might die.

[Ben Jordan]

They were able to figure out with some high degree of accuracy that was really, really insane. And of course, doctors were like, okay, well, how did it figure this out? What's the underlying cause? We could actually solve a lot of these problems for these patients, and they're like, oh, yeah, sorry, it's just ones and zeros. We have no idea.

[Alex Goldman]

That's so crazy.

[Ben Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

Okay, so AI is this impenetrable black box. No one knows what it does or why. But despite this black box problem, Ben has figured out a way to identify songs with reasonable accuracy. And in order to understand how, I'm going to need you to take a little detour with me. Okay, so when songs are uploaded to Spotify, they are compressed. That means that they try to make the song sound as good as possible while making the file as small as possible. So they aren't sending massive amounts of data over the Internet every time you want to listen to, like, Andrew Lloyd Webber or whatever. And the engineers at your favorite music streaming platform have gotten very good at this. They've managed to compress files to about 1/7 to 1/10 the size they would have been if they were uncompressed. And you'd think in losing all of that data, you'd lose a lot of the sound quality, because with an audio file, the data is sound. But they've figured out ways to just discard the imperceptible audio that's hard to detect with the human ear. Anyway. Anyhow, the point of this explanation is that when these files are compressed, the compression leaves traces of that process in the data of the audio file. And the point I'm trying to make here, albeit in pretty broad terms, because this stuff is very complicated, way more complicated than I can comprehend, is that this compression process is how Ben found a way to recognize an AI song. Because these AI music sites like SUNO and udio, they're being trained on. On these compressed versions of songs. And when Ben realized this, he had his Eureka moment.

[Ben Jordan]

What if we just look for that to see if there's a bunch of these artifacts that are in this music? Because that was in the original training data.

[Alex Goldman]

Once Ben figured this out, everything came together very quickly. He designed his own AI model that could analyze songs and recognize files created by SUNO based solely on the compression patterns of data in the audio file. Something that a human ear simply couldn't do with any real level of certainty.

[Ben Jordan]

That's because our human ear is not a very good scientific measuring device.

[Alex Goldman]

It's.

[Ben Jordan]

It's something that is interpreted by our brains. Our human ear is just turning pressure waves into sounds in our brain. So it's very subjective. And so, I mean, that's why when you're creeped out, you start hearing all these sort, you know, these weird sounds in the house, you know, when you wouldn't be hearing them otherwise.

[Alex Goldman]

So, of course, I sent Ben all of the Ethan Pooped songs that Manal asked us about. Did any of them ping as AI?

[Ben Jordan]

Yep. So three out of the four are not AI. And Ethan Smells Like a Llama, Ethan Poop. That one was made on Suno.

[Alex Goldman]

You know what is so funny to me? I listened to all of these songs. I'll be, I'll be. And this. I think this is an indictment of my taste in music. Maybe the only one that I was like, this is not terrible, was the Smells Like a Llama song. I was like, this isn't awful.

[Ben Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

The rest of them were really, like, discordant in a way that I was like, well, it's very reasonable that this could be fake for the AI.

[Ben Jordan]

Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

So to confirm, Poops and Reckless Otter are human and Super Poops. The person who did the song that's Ethan Smells like a llama. That is AI.

[Ben Jordan]

Yes. Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

So the one song that I liked, the one that I thought was, like, too good to be AI because it used the word smelliny, which I thought was just peak fart songwriting, ended up being the only song that pinged as AI in Ben's model. And I think that's a testament to just how good AI's gotten. It can sound like a weirdo in his basement making shitty music. Shortly after we chatted with Ben, Spotify announced that they will start labeling AI music and that they will account for songs that are partially made by humans and AI, which is great news for artists and consumers to finally have this level of transparency going forward. And now that I know most of these artists are in fact human, I need to cop to something, because back when Amore played me the Ethan Poop songs, there was one song that she played me was by an artist I was already very familiar with.

[Amor Yates]

Okay, Alex, I have another song to play for you. This is another Ethan Poop song that Manon sent us.

[Matt Farley]

Ethan. Ethan. Ethan.

[Alex Goldman]

Okay, well, this is definitely not AI. Okay, so I actually know the guy who wrote this song. One of the first radio stories that I ever did was about this guy.

[Amor Yates]

Oh, my God.

[Alex Goldman]

After the break, the man behind the music.

[Manon]

Ethan pooped.

[Alex Goldman]

Ethan pooped.

[Dakota State University Announcer]

The other words of the year, they were just as online, you know, Oxford's was brain rot, if you can believe it. Its first use was in 1854 by Henry David Theroux.

[Manon]

RIP Henry David Theroux. You would have hated TikTok. Wait, Candace, we should probably introduce ourselves.

[Dakota State University Announcer]

You're so right, Kate. Hello, listeners. We are the hosts of icymi. Or rather, in case you missed it.

[Manon]

Slate's podcast about Internet culture.

[Alex Goldman]

We're extremely online, so you don't have.

[Amor Yates]

To be Follow icymi now, wherever you listen.

[Alex Goldman]

This episode of Hyperfixed is brought to you by Mood. Kids these days, they're always gone off that zaza. You feel me? Do you want to get gone off that zaza?

[Manon]

Did you?

[Alex Goldman]

Do you want to do that? Did you know that there's an online cannabis company that ships federally illegal THC right to your door? And they found a way to combine THC with carefully selected functional ingredients that target nearly every movie, mood and health concern you can think of. I'm talking about Mood.com's incredible line of functional gummies. And you can get 20% off your first [e-mail] with the promo code hyperfixed. Let me tell you, this isn't any ordinary zaza. Mood's functional gummies are optimized to kick in in as little as 15 minutes and take you to the mood you're looking for. Whether that's mind magic gummies for deep work and creativity, PMS support to ease cramps and balance mood swings, or their sexual euphoria. Gummies to help you feel ready for action and turn every touch into a full body experience. Best of all, not only is every Mood product backed by a hundred day satisfaction guarantee, but as I mentioned, listeners get 20% off of their first order with the code hyperfixed. So head to mood.com. find the functional gummy that matches exactly what you're looking for and let mood help you discover your perfect mood. And don't forget to use the promo code hyperfixed when you check out to save 20% on your first order. And if you aren't gone off that zaza, well, then that's kinda on you. Foreign this episode of Hyper Fixed is brought to you by Gusto. Let's be real. No one starts a business for the joy of calculating tax withholdings. That's where Gusto comes in. To take the stress out of payroll, benefits and HR so you can focus on why you started your business in the first place. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire onboard, and support your team from anywhere. As a person who just wanted to make radio stories his entire life and is now a business owner, the administrative tasks of owning a business can be overwhelming. I mean, I just want to make jokes into a microphone, but I have to figure out things like payroll and hiring and all that mess. And Gusto makes it easy. Automatic payroll tax filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, commuter benefits, workers comp 401k, you name it. Gusto makes it simple and has options for nearly every budget. Save time with automated tools built right in. Offer letters, onboarding materials, direct deposit, and more. Try gusto [e-mail] HYPERFIXED and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free [e-mail] HYSTERFIXED one more time. That's Gusto.com HYPERFIX welcome back to the show. So this week, Hyperfix listener Manal reached out to us to investigate all of these Ethan Poop songs on streaming services. And more than anything, she just wanted to know why they existed. And fortunately for her, I knew the answer to that right away. And it's entirely because of this guy. Are you recording on your end? Are you rolling?

[Matt Farley]

We're rolling on my end.

[Alex Goldman]

I've known Matt for over a decade. He's the kind of friend that I text about horror movies and you know, about his music. And he's the most prolific songwriter on earth, as far as I know. And by that I mean he's written and published on Spotify over 26,000 songs throughout my career. I have brought Matt in several times on projects I've been working on, mostly because the number of songs he's written isn't even the most interesting thing about him. For example, he's never uttered a curse word. He didn't have his first hamburger until he was in his 40s. He is a fan of taking very long walks, sometimes dozens of miles. In fact, he used to have a newsletter about his walks, of which I was an eager recipient. And if you're just curious about him and want to give him a call, well, you're in luck, because not only does he have his phone number in his Twitter bio, he frequently puts it at the end of songs. And if you call him, he will pick up, and if he misses your call, he'll call you back. But the thing that he's become most famous for is his music, especially the rate at which he produces songs.

[Matt Farley]

It was always my instinct to write tons of songs, and then at some point, amidst my lack of success, I kind of was like, you know what? I'm just gonna make so much music that they can't ignore me, you know? And so it feels good. I want more praise. I want more glory. You know, when I walk down the street, I'm looking around and being like, do you people know who I am? You know, I'm saying that in my head, but I'd like to be mobbed by fans, stuff like that.

[Alex Goldman]

Matt hasn't been mobbed by fans in real life, but last fall, he did experience the online equivalent of a mob when he went viral on TikTok for his poop songs. Because, as it turns out, people like poop songs, and they like songs with their names in them. You see, while Matt writes songs about all kinds of stuff, he has found that people look for songs about stuff they like or find funny or just have their name in them. So he has albums worth of songs about celebrities. For example, he recorded an album for every state in the US under the name the guy who sings about cities and towns. And as every parent knows, the first thing a kid does when faced with a computer prompt is to search the word poop. So when people on TikTok started to notice that if they typed their name and the word poop, depending on how popular their name was, they could find a song that included their name and Poop.

[Matt Farley]

Kayla.

[Alex Goldman]

Poop.

[Matt Farley]

Kayla.

[Alex Goldman]

Poop.

[Ben Jordan]

Kayla.

[Manon]

Kayla.

[Matt Farley]

Kayla.

[Alex Goldman]

Andre.

[Matt Farley]

Andre. Andre. Poop.

[Alex Goldman]

Andre. Andre.

[Matt Farley]

Poop. Emily. Emily. Emily. Emily. Danny. Poop. Danny.

[Dakota State University Announcer]

Danny. Danny.

[Matt Farley]

Poop. Danny. Danny. Danny.

[Manon]

Poop.

[Matt Farley]

Poop. Danny.

[Alex Goldman]

And while it might seem weird that people are actually listening to these poop songs, the fact that we're sitting here talking about them is proof that they.

[Matt Farley]

Work, because they went viral. I was getting message after message from people saying, you haven't done my name. And so I have about 1200 names on a list that I'm just trying to slowly.

[Alex Goldman]

Does it ever become. Does it ever start to feel like a slog? Or is it always a delight to crank out another poop name song?

[Matt Farley]

Oh, no, no, it's a slog. Everything. I mean, I'm sure you feel the same way, too. You love being podcaster, but it's. It's that, like, getting the momentum, getting yourself off the couch, you know, getting yourself psyched up for it. But it's the same thing with, like, a marathon runner. Like, marathon runners, most of them, they don't always love running, they don't always love training, but they love accomplishing the marathon. And so that they. They have to go through the. They have to fight through the times when they don't want to do it.

[Alex Goldman]

And Matt is just really good at fighting through it. Time and again, he gets off his couch, sits at his keyboard, and makes his way through the list of names he's got to write about. So the day he wrote the Ethan Poop song was like any other day. No vendetta, no AI, no secret portal into Ethan's life. Just a man with a consistent process.

[Matt Farley]

It's not like people think I do, like, market research or something, and, like, I don't even know. I don't even know what. How to do market research. I just think, oh, wouldn't it be funny if I put out an album about this or that and then. Then I do it and if things. If I notice one thing's doing real well, I might do more in that direction.

[Alex Goldman]

So I don't know how you feel about talking about financials, but, like, how. How much. How much does one song make for you? Or is it. Does it vary wildly because different songs have different popularity?

[Matt Farley]

Yeah, it varies wildly. You know, one song in a year could earn 5,000 plus, and then many songs in a year earn $0.05 minus $0.05 minus.

[Alex Goldman]

Those are the songs that get no plays and they just cost a lot to put up.

[Matt Farley]

Oh, no, no, no, no. I was just. When you say 5,000 plus, it means 5,000 and above. Then I was saying 5 cents minus meaning 5 cents or less. Oh, not. Not negative. I think I just. I invented a new phrase. Like, everyone, people say, like, I'm making 10, right? But do they ever say, like, I'm making $5 minus?

[Alex Goldman]

No, you have invented a new phrase. No wonder I was so confused.

[Matt Farley]

This is. They're going to trace it back when it be. When it. When it enters the vernacular, they're going to trace it back to this episode.

[Alex Goldman]

I know. That's great that finally I'll be on Wikipedia. Can you believe this guy? He's inventing whole new business models with streaming audio and just throwing out phrases we're all probably going to be using in six months. I told Matt that Ethan's sister men all wanted to know why these Ethan Poop songs were so popular and why all these other artists. Them too. There are artists like the name named Poops, Reckless Otter, Super Poop, and then you.

[Matt Farley]

It's my fault. It's all my fault, by the way, that these other ones have sprung up, I'm pretty sure.

[Alex Goldman]

Can you elaborate?

[Matt Farley]

Yeah. Well, let's see. When did Poops. I'm just looking up Poops for the first time, you know, when did Poops start releasing music?

[Alex Goldman]

It's Poops with a Z, by the way.

[Matt Farley]

Oh, yeah, I see it. 2023, you know, and it was definitely. I was at the forefront of the name poop trend. But yeah, it's that and all respect to Poops. Get out there. I don't own the right to singing names and Poops. And may the best name poop song win is what I say.

[Alex Goldman]

Have you heard of any of these artists? Do you have like a stiff competitor in the poop song field that you think of as like your poop song rival?

[Matt Farley]

No, no, I mean, I see it. I see it here and there, but I try to keep, you know, I just, I just, you know, stay in my lane, do my thing and if any, you know, I don't want to get petty, but I do, I do sometimes feel there's a lack of, like, humanity to a lot of the other people's named poop songs where it sounds very, very robotic, whereas I think mine sound very, very full of life in that it's an actual person singing the words. You know what I mean? I like mine better.

[Alex Goldman]

I know I'm biased, but of all the Ethan Poop songs, I think I like Matt's best too. So by this point, I felt confident that we had answers to all of Manon's questions. But Ethan did have one request, if you remember. It was clear that he wasn't upset by the Poop songs, but he was disappointed that they all represented him so narrowly.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I mean, maybe. Maybe the solution is actually to have more of those. But what else does Ethan do, you know?

[Alex Goldman]

So I wanted to give Ethan one more song that, unlike the others, was really meant for him and didn't include any mention of poop. So I asked Matt if he could write a new song for Ethan, and fortunately, Matt was sympathetic.

[Matt Farley]

Poor Ethan.

[Alex Goldman]

Also, even if he wasn't, I have him on record saying this.

[Matt Farley]

I'll do anything for you. Hey, can I release this on Spotify when it's done? That would be kind of fun.

[Alex Goldman]

A month later, Matt sent us the new Ethan song that had nothing to do with poop, but had everything to do with Ethan. So on one summer day on the Upper east side of Manhattan, in the same whiskey bar where Ethan and his girlfriend Rachel work, it made its world premiere. This is the song for Eth.

[Manon]

Yeah, you, Ethan. Yeah, you.

[Alex Goldman]

What is this, Ethan?

[Ethan]

New York City.

[Matt Farley]

And your life is terrific.

[Ben Jordan]

Yeah, it is.

[Matt Farley]

And now I'm gonna get even more specific.

[Manon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farley]

Ethan, you're so great, and you make people smile. Yeah. Ethan, you're a genius of flavor profile at Caledonia, people wait.

[Alex Goldman]

And while Ethan and Rachel listen to Matt's new Ethan song, in New York City in Liberia, Manal and her husband listen too.

[Manon]

I love it. I love it so much. It's like, that part, like, I'm gonna get even more specific. It's hilarious. I love all of the details that were able to be fit in and just. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Eat the. That's great.

[Alex Goldman]

There are days when Manal wishes she lived closer to her family, closer to her little brother Ethan. But over time, she's come to terms with the fact that their lives may always be thousands of miles apart, with cultures and oceans in between them.

[Manon]

And it's just sort of nice to create special moments even when we're not together, which is a lot harder to do. Usually, like, you're either just, like, forwarding each other memes or you're on a call catching up on life. You're not, like, creating new memories and new moments and new things to bond over as easily. So I definitely think that I really enjoyed that. And I think it's not just me and Ethan. It's also, like, you know, Rachel and my husband, like, all four of us, because all of us, like, have really been into it since, you know, the day that Ethan pooped his pants. You know, it's just been, like, compounding on itself, especially now that the music is here and now having this song. Yeah, we'll get on, like, group calls with the four of us to talk about this.

[Matt Farley]

It's nice when you tell jokes. It evokes laughter on a film set, you're always an excellent gaffer. You got a girlfriend named Rachel. You've got a sister Mano life is good for you. Ethan, you have got it going on. Oh yeah. Ethan, obsessed with outer space.

[Alex Goldman]

We have it on good authority that Ethan is now in fact a podcast person. If you want Matt Farley to write you a custom song, check out his site, moturnmedia.com that's M O T E R N media.com custom-songs and if you want to hear Ethan's song, it's up on Spotify. We'll include links to both of those in the show notes.

[Matt Farley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ethan, you was born in Brazil. Oh, oh, Ethan. Making people smile.

[Alex Goldman]

Hyperfixed is produced by Amor Yates, Emma Cortland and Sari Safer Sukanek. This episode was edited by Megan Tan. It was engineered by Tony Williams. Music is by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. And me, Special thanks to Ethan's girlfriend Rachel for recording and leading the Ethan song reveal at Ethan's bar. For our premium members, we are going to be having a watch party of Night of the Living Dead on our Discord on October 16th. Just in time for Halloween. We'll all be hanging out. I will unite, undoubtedly be sharing trivia because I love that movie. It'll be fun. Go to hyperfixpod.com join if you'd like to become a member. Hyperfixed is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent, creator owned, listener supported podcasts. Discover Audio with visionadiotopia fm and remember, we can't make a show without your problems. So head on over to hyperfixpod.com and submit your problem and you just might be on the next episode of Hyper Fixed. All right, that's it from us. Thanks for listening. We'll see you soon.

[Matt Farley]

Alex, Alex. Poop. Alex. Poop Poop. Poop. Alex.

[Alex Goldman]

Alex.

[Matt Farley]

Alex. Alex. Alex Poop Poop. Poop. Alex poop Poop.

[Alex Goldman]

Radiotopia.

[Manon]

From prx.